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Linas IV	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:37:00 - [31] If anyone still cares about it: I used all of the T3 Cruisers yet i must admit that some Proteus fits "may seem" Pretty OP. But consider this: It's EFT - Blaster - below 2km - DPS The legion does up to 250 DPS less in common Fittings, but it does it always up to 25km range with scorch, while a Proteus becomes a pretty useless flying-brick once a Rapier is on the field for example. The only thing that might need a Change on T3s, is that some Loki fits could use an additional Med-Slot to allow shield buffer tanking.
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:38:00 - [32] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Calina, you may want this thread moved to the Ships & modules section of the forums. I never did intend it to be more then an General discussion, but others have started posting fits and like wise I posted one as well.. so yeah probably could use with a move now though i wish totally that it wouldn't go in that direction , I never wanted to argue fits i mean its pretty common knowledge what t3 ships are capable of and no need to argue about such. I was just looking to start general convo about the legion.. you know "I like it for this reason" or "I dislike it for that reason" etc not having to set people up with fits for proteus and t3 ships that were only mentioned as a comparison to the ship this thread was suposed to be about. ; ; Thanks for the mention all the same and if someone could move the thread I would be thankful take care Calina
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Linas IV If anyone still cares about it: I used all of the T3 Cruisers yet i must admit that some Proteus fits "may seem" Pretty OP. But consider this: It's EFT - Blaster - below 2km - DPS The legion does up to 250 DPS less in common Fittings, but it does it always up to 25km range with scorch, while a Proteus becomes a pretty useless flying-brick once a Rapier is on the field for example. The only thing that might need a Change on T3s, is that some Loki fits could use an additional Med-Slot to allow shield buffer tanking. thats 2.3km optimal on blasters with a 9.4km fall off <--- this is how blaster work they hit effectively at 10km with Proteus or any other ship using blasters depending on the fit implants etc you can get a bit more Fall off out of them.. this is no different then using pulse with legion really certain ammo gives you more dps with less rng while other ammo gives you more rng with less DPS though none of Legions ammo types are gonna put it over 500dps at least not enough to mention. but everyone is entitled to an opinion.. maybe your right ... Cheers Cali
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:53:00 - [34] Originally by: Mashie Saldana A blaster fitted pvp ship without cap booster. Btw, my Legion is awesome so don't even think about touching it: [Legion, Salvager cargo] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Signal Amplifier II Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Codebreaker II Analyzer II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Medium Salvage Tackle II Medium Cargohold Optimization II Medium Cargohold Optimization II Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst I mean what better use is there for a state of the art Amarrian warship than a glorified bin collector. hahahahah that's probably the second most useful fit i seen for a Legion. I stand corrected in shame.. there are two note worthy fits for Legion bows head Cheers Calina oh yeah about the cap booster on the Proteus the fit i linked was from battleclinic and is intended to be used in a gang with logi support.. My personal Proteus fit does 1081 dps with 117k ehp and is built for pure DPS really also relying on My alt In Guardian.. however I couldn't get a Gank fit out of Legion unless I put two of them together lol Cheers
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 13:57:00 - [35] Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Originally by: Linas IV But consider this: It's EFT - Blaster - below 2km - DPS thats 2.3km optimal on blasters with a 9.4km fall off <--- this is how blaster work they hit effectively at 10km with Proteus or any other ship using blasters depending on the fit implants etc you can get a bit more Fall off out of them.. Sure, but falloff is still falloff, and it kills your DPS. At the ranges where you'd see a Legion vs. Proteus fight, the Proteus your describing is down to maybe 308 effective DPS – half of which comes from the drones, which can be lost – against a comparably fit Legion's 89k EHP. At the same time, such a Legion would be spitting out 527 DPS against the Proteus 113k EHP. That's 70% advantage in DPS to be weighed against a 22% disadvantage in EHP from the Legion's perspective. Move the engagement closer and it's certainly a more interesting fight – the Legion pushes 660 DPS and 95k EHP for the Legion vs. 538 and 125k EHP for the Proteus… (or 380 if it loses its drones). Yes, the Proteus can produce some impressive numbers on paper, but it requires a hellalot of work to actually apply it since, while the stats suggests that it's about as hard as a concrete wall, it's about as agile and speedy as one as well. The Legion's slightly less impressive numbers are far easier to apply, and being the nippier of the two ships, it has far more freedom in dictating the dynamics of the engagement. Quote: this is no different then using pulse with legion really certain ammo gives you more dps with less rng while other ammo gives you more rng with less DPS though none of Legions ammo types are gonna put it over 500dps at least not enough to mention. Really? You're using the heaviest blasters, the nastiest ammo, and the most hard-hitting drones for that Proteus, backing it up with three faction weapon mods. Doing the same thing with a Legion (sans the drones), puts it at 654 DPS @ 11+5km (with the option of doing 521 DPS @ 34+5km). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
citizen20100323919	Posted - 2010.03.23 14:05:00 - [36] I never asked for your 'help'. I asked for proof that you knew what you were doing. When you stated all your fits came from Battleclinic I realised you where a moron. Your comments about falloff etc etc cement that opinion.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.03.23 14:20:00 - [37] /me looks at the Caldari HACs and then looks at the Tengu /me looks at the Amarr HACs and then looks at the Legion Seems fair. The sooner you consider the Legion a fleet support ship and not a solo pwnmobile, the happier you'll be.
Kitimortoa	Posted - 2010.03.23 14:40:00 - [38] WTF IS PROTUS?!?
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 14:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Kitimortoa WTF IS PROTUS?!? It's like produce, only harder and with less vitamins. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Maria Kalista Amarr Splinter Foundation	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:06:00 - [40] Edited by: Maria Kalista on 23/03/2010 15:06:49 I bought the hull, main center core thingy, whatever. Then I started to doubt, logged on SiSi, started playing with every possible fit. Logged back onto Tranquility. Sold my Proteus hull, main center core thingy, whatever. Training now for a Tengu. I wonder why CCP thought it was a cool idea to make the Amarr T3 suk. We'll never know. :s Originally by: Jacharian This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in. \| We are recruiting! \| - \| Mac to SiSi W/O patch \|
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:13:00 - [41] Originally by: citizen20100323919 I never asked for your 'help'. I asked for proof that you knew what you were doing. When you stated all your fits came from Battleclinic I realised you where a moron. Your comments about falloff etc etc cement that opinion. ah here we go again, First off I never stated all my fits come from battleclinic. all of my fits save one are mine completely. the one fit i do use that i did not make is RiotRicks Fit from battleclinic. and I told you I use that and where to find it.. if you can't find it on your own then your opinion is negated and useless being, if you can't use a search on battleclinic then you probably don't have the common since of a brick. 2nd so you don't personally like or use battleclinic shrugs so be it that doesn't mean that battleclinic is not a viable resource to check for fits.. there are a lot of good players who post excellent fits on Battleclinic as well as other resources on the internet. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't any good.. that being said there is always idiots who post stupid ** at places like battleclinic your now living proof of that posting stupid here. and further more where in the do you get that I would care that some random idiot wants proof of my fitting ability..? I don't give a if you think I'm the worst player in the game Dude.. this thread was never about me or my fits this thread was about Legion and what people think about the ship.. and lastly I started the thread if you want to discredit me then its your place to provide a fit contrary to what i have said. So far people have said "I must be fitting it wrong" but no one has yet to show a viable fit for legion that showed it was any better then what I stated in the original post. Make no mistake I got zero reason to impress or even care that you exist much less jump to you wanting fits for a ship that i already stated I Use Riotricks fit.. <---- that's the only viable decent fit for the ship that's the only one i have saved wtf don't you understand about that.. how many times must I say it for it to sink into your ing thick skull.. let me chalk it up for you in "simple" terms so there is no further mistake. I do Not know you, I don't like you and I think your a bloody **ing idiot. So i have no reason or incentive to do anything you ask or impress you or give you proof of my ability in anyway. your a proper nobody to me, and your a bit Meh "uninteresting" and not someone I would normally waist my time to notice and definitely not somebody I'm gonna jump for when you demand something. Take care Cali
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:25:00 - [42] Edited by: CalinaNightCyn on 23/03/2010 15:31:11 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Originally by: Linas IV But consider this: It's EFT - Blaster - below 2km - DPS thats 2.3km optimal on blasters with a 9.4km fall off <--- this is how blaster work they hit effectively at 10km with Proteus or any other ship using blasters depending on the fit implants etc you can get a bit more Fall off out of them.. Sure, but falloff is still falloff, and it kills your DPS. At the ranges where you'd see a Legion vs. Proteus fight, the Proteus your describing is down to maybe 308 effective DPS û half of which comes from the drones, which can be lost û against a comparably fit Legion's 89k EHP. At the same time, such a Legion would be spitting out 527 DPS against the Proteus 113k EHP. That's 70% advantage in DPS to be weighed against a 22% disadvantage in EHP from the Legion's perspective. Move the engagement closer and it's certainly a more interesting fight û the Legion pushes 660 DPS and 95k EHP for the Legion vs. 538 and 125k EHP for the Proteusà (or 380 if it loses its drones). Yes, the Proteus can produce some impressive numbers on paper, but it requires a hell alot of work to actually apply it since, while the stats suggests that it's about as hard as a concrete wall, it's about as agile and speedy as one as well. The Legion's slightly less impressive numbers are far easier to apply, and being the nippier of the two ships, it has far more freedom in dictating the dynamics of the engagement. Quote: this is no different then using pulse with legion really certain ammo gives you more dps with less rng while other ammo gives you more rng with less DPS though none of Legions ammo types are gonna put it over 500dps at least not enough to mention. Really? You're using the heaviest blasters, the nastiest ammo, and the most hard-hitting drones for that Proteus, backing it up with three faction weapon mods. Doing the same thing with a Legion (sans the drones), puts it at 654 DPS @ 11+5km (with the option of doing 521 DPS @ 34+5km). Maybe I didn't come off exactly how i intended .. I agree with most things here except that your never gonna get a legion to do 660DPS lol but stating that the Proteus isn't any good an uncapable of doing 1000 dps because its not with in rng just doesn't win your argument. that's a "what if" at best. ok what if the Proteus is 2km away or rather what if the legion is in its fall off rng .. yeah in a perfect world you can mock things up with ideal situations for your ship.. Im not arguing on pilot tactics here of course a smart pilot will try to stay out of optimal if they can or in the ideal position to do the most dmg with there guns.. that doesn't mean its gonna happen because say I warped a Proteus to that said legion @ 0 and set orbit to 2km <--- the Proteus would then be doing 1000 dps where as it would also be under the legions guns and the legion would barley be able to hit it. so im not arguing ideal situations to make one pilots tactics better then another. I will say that if my optimal on Proteus is 2km then that's where I'm gonna try to be when i attack you. so that's the reason I stick to the base stats based on EFT.. a Proteus can do 1000 dps in ideal situation just like a Legion can do 250 dps at 25 km which is the ideal situation.. both of these situations depends on the pilots skill flying each ship and there ability to make quick choice in real time.. so I agree and I don't agree Cheers Nice argument btw, very informative. Cali also as an after thought if it were a legion vrs a Proteus then the Proteus drones are safe lol Legion doesn't have any drones and try shooting some scouts with a legion and Medium Pules well legion doesn't have any drones unless you use the drone subsystem but then your worst off with DPS then you were before.. at least from the way i see it. again would love to see otherwise I'm really crossing my fingers here on Legion I love amarr ships but 250dps t3 ship , no thanks
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:35:00 - [43] IBTM.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:43:00 - [44] Originally by: CalinaNightCyn I agree with most things here except that your never gonna get a legion to do 660DPS lol 6+ Heavy Pulse II w/ Navy MF + 3+ Navy Heat sinks (the equivalent of your 6+ Neutron II:s w/ CN AM + 3+ Navy Magstabs) = 654 DPS. Quote: ok what if the Proteus is 2km away or rather what if the legion is in its fall off rng If the Legion is in falloff, then the Proteus have long since lost the ability to even hit it. This comes down to piloting, not to the ship. If you can pilot your ship to get the optimal attack position for that ship, you will win. Being in a Legion does not change this – it only changes where that optimal position is. Quote: say I warped a Proteus to that said legion @ 0 and set orbit to 2km …you'd be outmanoeuvred in short order, partly because you're so slow and partly because you're trying to "set orbit"… oh, and you'd be out of cap as well. Quote: so that's the reason I stick to the base stats based on EFT.. a Proteus can do 1000 dps in ideal situation just like a Legion can do 250 dps at 25 km which is the ideal situation.. The problem with that is that the ideal situation never exists, and that EFT does not present the facts of what will actually happen. For example, your EFT is saying your Legion will do 250 dps at 25km, when it's actually more than double that (although that's probably a fitting error). It doesn't tell you that, for your 1000dps to be true, the target must be AFK, which it won't be, or that you will need to have lots of cap to be effective, which you won't have. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 16:15:00 - [45] Edited by: CalinaNightCyn on 23/03/2010 16:20:03 1st That gives 366 DPS on legion In EFT 2nd that's completely what if , the Proteus fit I intend to use does about 970m/s and both ships are armor tanked Proteus and legion.. so both will suffer the same maneuverability issues. being most of my kills in this game came from me warp to 0 on my targets I don't think I would have a problem maintaining optimal on a legion. it is fitted with webfier etc but all this comes down to what if the pilot fited this way the the Proteus was at this rng then you would have this advantage or that advantage.. and everything comes down to the pilots ability. so thats not a judge of the ships ability's. a Proteus can do 1000 dps if in optimal and will do a 1000 dps when in optimal where as a legion can't not in optimal or not. ideal situation doesn't exist is kinda un true in all events.. being both ships have to contend with cap they would most liky both be webbing one another so neither will be moving very fast so if the Proteus got the jump then I can't see it having trouble keeping pace with a Webed Legion both ships are Cruisers with the same mass and wight and both ships are armor tanked .. but lastly this was never about Legion vrs Proteus or Legion vrs any other t3.. this was about Legion being as good as the other t3's and you simply can not make a gank fit with Legion someone mentioned earlier legion was a fleet suport ship .. just seems like to me its the only t3 that has such a crappy role oh yeah on a last note i never fited a legion with 250 dps that was the number taken from a previous post about what they said the ship would do and i replied to .. my legion does right around 500 DPS though i can lose an EAM here and add another faction heat sink and getta little more dps (not enough to make it worth it) to sacrifice the tank but meh certain things i supose in a perfet world you could go refit before you fought everyone.
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 16:38:00 - [46] Really? You're using the heaviest blasters, the nastiest ammo, and the most hard-hitting drones for that Proteus, backing it up with three faction weapon mods. Doing the same thing with a Legion (sans the drones), puts it at 654 DPS @ 11+5km (with the option of doing 521 DPS @ 34+5km). this isn't the case however .. but lets take a moment to dissect what your saying about EFT.. Eft says Legion with the above set up (minus the drones because legion can't use them with out drone subsystem) does 374 DPS (that's with energy weapons rigs added which would be a horrid waist) basically your saying EFT is wrong and it in fact does 654 DPS. but on the other hand EFT says that Proteus can do 1000 DPS with same setup with drones without weapon rigs and that EFT is also wrong but unlike the legion it doesn't get a double boost to DPS but only does 1/3 rd of its said dps. does everyone use different calculations for weapons or something ...
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 17:01:00 - [47] Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Eft says Legion with the above set up (minus the drones because legion can't use them with out drone subsystem) does 374 DPS No. EFT says it will do 654 base – 721 with the same kind of implants required for the fabled 1k DPS Proteus. Quote: basically your saying EFT is wrong and it in fact does 654 DPS. No. I'm saying that you are wrong. If you're getting something else, you're using an outdated version or you've fiddled with the skills. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.03.23 17:11:00 - [48] Quote: someone mentioned earlier legion was a fleet suport ship .. just seems like to me its the only t3 that has such a crappy role I think this statement hints at why not everyone agrees with your assessment of the Legion. It's somewhat like looking at the EFT numbers for a sniper fit BS and saying that its obviously inferior to a gank fit BS, therefore it has no point. I see Legions being used very effectively on a regular basis, but those uses don't include generally include solo work (unless you count insta popping ceptors or bombers, which they excel at). Often these are jobs that a Proteus would suck at. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2010.03.23 18:01:00 - [49] Moved to Ships and Modules for more help with your Ship question. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Hydroz0rz	Posted - 2010.03.23 18:35:00 - [50] In honesty I fly a Proteus and it has its drawbacks, just like all races ships in all categorys. Every ship in the T3 tier must be better and worse in ceratin areas than another ship this is how they're balanced out. Example, Proteus pvp will use blasters which is uber close combat however a tengu can come from distance with HAMs. There will be a fit with the legion that will be really very good. I found out as soon as i got the proteus that fitting isnt easy there are so very many options with sub systems.
Kail Storm Caldari Fear Th3 Vampires	Posted - 2010.03.23 21:23:00 - [51] Calina its pretty simple to me... Iwas in this game for 1.5 years back in the old BOB days...When I came back a year and a half ago I trained caldari and felt way Gipp`d of the ship selection... From its T1 frigs like the... Merlin [Bad split fittings, Ok but hybridz have lo DPS, the nyou need rockets to fill in more whichj are also lolz. Kestrels [Paper tank, Good gank but not enough to justify how EZ it dies] Harpy [Good, but very singular focused sniper, Needs others help always] Hawk [simply not even AF class and should be considered a t1 frig, since I would bet on Rifter] All outclassed by Rifter/Jag and Inc/Ishk To the cruisers Caracal [Terrabad vs cruisers until I descovered AML and realized its basically to be flown as a big frig ] Moa Decent Hybrid but at that point why not a Thorax which has same tank/gank but way better drones] Both outclassed Cara by almost all T1 cruisers, Moa will die to Rax/Vex, Ruppy, Arbi/Omen Cerb [Big missle Harpy that needs gang support,Good at its job but not a huge focus] Eagle [Not good at much] Cerb loses to sniper Zeal Eagle same, Cerb can win as Support ship but only useful in Fleets large groups At this point in my gaming I was ***ed I had dumped alot of time and energy in skilling this race and I realised I was going to be gimp`d in Solo Pvp, until I found my Diamond in the rough...The Drake it is such a sweet ride when properly fitted that all the pain and suffering from the other ships seemed worth it, It truly is top notch against anything Sub BS solo you have a shot to kill it. Hell with anything x2 you have a decent shot at killing 1 of them. The battleships are good Raven is great if done right but cant really Fly them in Losec because youll get jumped. My point through all this is I thought in the begining Each ship class should have 1 best ship from each race to be balanced...Then I realised the Drake made it worth my while. While all the other ships listed are not the "greatest" at any 1 thing the Drake is. So ship balance between races means sometimes you have no good ships in that class at all, but str of overall Race comes into play. Between all the T1/AF T1/Hacs I truly dont think any is best in class. Then you hit BC`s and Drake is best EHP/DPS combo esp at range its also great in PVE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Now looking at how strong Amarr is of a lineup it would be unfair to have it have the Best or even close to the Best T3, -Arbi/Curse are scary -Harbi is great BC -Zealot and Sacs are good -BS lineup is just crazy good. -Abby 225k EHP 1k DPS monster@55km Lolz -Geddon 150k EHP with wicked RR abilitys and 1k DPS@50km -Apoc best sniper by far. -Nightmare is crazy good PVE boat and if you rich PVP Should you guys really get the best or even close to the best T3? I truly mean this...If you had an amazing T3 there would be no need for me to train anything but Amarr, great Drone boats, Greatest in class T1 frig Tankers and DPS, great Hacs great BC`s and the Best BS lineup period, with the greatest T2 Ammo there is, Crazy range vs DMG. You are lucky IMO Amarr even gets a T3 lolz They are such a solid race they dont deserve one. TL DR Amarr is great now because CCP feels so bad for when they sucked for so long...But now they are truly the Best overall race to be IMO They own large scale PVP do well as Hac gangs, Have best Ammos in game barr none and insta swapping is Winsauce. And they dont trade this great ability of owning PVP by forsaking PVE they are great at PVE. Be lucky they even have a T3 SHip as they are so good -------------------------------------------------- "If Eve Was Prn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed" -Me
Linsyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 22:02:00 - [52] Yes the Legion is poor in the DPS and tank but the one thing it does well is kill frigates I can fly all but the loki, yes the legion does need a buffing
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 22:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 23/03/2010 17:26:42 Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Eft says Legion with the above set up (minus the drones because legion can't use them with out drone subsystem) does 374 DPS No. EFT says it will do 654 base û 721 with the same kind of implants required for the fabled 1k DPS Proteus. Quote: basically your saying EFT is wrong and it in fact does 654 DPS. No. I'm saying that you are wrong. If you're getting something else, you're using an outdated version or you've fiddled with the skills. Edit: in fact, after some experimentation trying to get that low a number, I'm fairly certain that your problem is that you're not fitting any Heat Sinksà Quote: the Proteus fit I intend to use does about 970m/s Nice. That means it'll die horribly to a standard HAM Drakeà It also makes it some 35% slower than the equivalent Legion (but I suspect that this is due to your using your own skills, rather that something that allows for comparative methods). Quote: a Proteus can do 1000 dps if in optimal and will do a 1000 dps when in optimal where as a legion can't not in optimal or not. So? This only means that the "shorter range = more damage" maxim that most inter-system balance is based on is working nicely. No, the Legion can't do 1k DPS, but it's not supposed to û it's supposed to do 75% that at 4+ the range instead. Me thinks you have an outdated EFT application or something.. I always fit any ship in EFT with all lv V skills when comparing and most of my skills concerning Amarr ships and DPS are level V regardless if i used Mine or not which I did not, In Fact..
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 22:17:00 - [54] Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Me thinks you have an outdated EFT application or something.. I always fit any ship in EFT with all lv V skills when comparing and most of my skills concerning Amarr ships and DPS are level V regardless if i used Mine or not which I did not, In Fact.. No, like I said: you just forgot to fit the Heat Sinks. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 22:54:00 - [55] Linsyn Kail Storm Hydroz0rz CCP Zymurgist Ranger 1 all fair statements and opinions , thanks for sharing your opinions etc on the ship in question really what this post was supposed to be about and all made valid points, CCP Zym thanks for the move. Maybe I look at things from a solo perspective a little to much, but i don't have the ability to play well with others in most cases , Yes I like playing PvP MMO games however that doesn't come from me enjoying the game with other players.. It's simply more fun to kill someone who is real.. shrugs
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.23 23:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: CalinaNightCyn Me thinks you have an outdated EFT application or something.. I always fit any ship in EFT with all lv V skills when comparing and most of my skills concerning Amarr ships and DPS are level V regardless if i used Mine or not which I did not, In Fact.. No, like I said: you just forgot to fit the Heat Sinks. this is a mute point from beginning to end.. 660 dps <--- you think that is good , then fly it.. personally I would fly a Harbinger for 800 DPS + at a fraction of the cost and use normal t2 heat sinks. t3 ships i thought were supposed to be a step up .. well in a way they are.. there a step up in cost afew ****ing steps, but Legion is the only one found lacking in a step up in ability to go with it. 5-600 dps you can get out of some t1 cruisers in the game.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2010.03.23 23:21:00 - [57] i'm so glad the dps number is the only important thing in eve. things would get way too complicated otherwise
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.23 23:31:00 - [58] Originally by: CalinaNightCyn this is a mute point from beginning to end.. 660 dps <--- you think that is good , then fly it.. No. Whether that's good or not is your judgement. Nor is that the point (which would be a moot one, not "mute"). Instead, the point is that your complaint was very much based on incorrect information that came out of you not fitting the thing properly and not understanding why it was incorrect, as demonstrated in this exchange. Now, instead of admitting that you are in error, correcting this problem, and then proceeding to demonstrate why it's still an issue, you're trying to change the subject. This only further intensifies the perception that you don't really understand what you're saying and that you have no basis for your complaint. Quote: personally I would fly a Harbinger for 800 DPS + at a fraction of the cost and use normal t2 heat sinks. Good. Then you have no reason to worry about the Proteus since your Harby will nail it to the floor. As for whether the Legion is crap or not, I couldn't care less. What I do care about is that you're trying to make it out as something it very clearly and very obviously is not. If you want to make the point that the Legion is crap, get your facts straight and argue from there, or your entire argument (and a large part of your credibility on the issue as a whole) will fall, all because of this small, easily avoided error on your part. In short: your argument is based on falsehoods. You need to fix that. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.24 00:08:00 - [59] Originally by: chrisss0r i'm so glad the dps number is the only important thing in eve. things would get way too complicated otherwise oh yeah there are plenty of other stats that make a difference but the ability to actually kill someone helps a bunch IMO.. 660 dps isn't enough DPS to warrant a gank fitted legion with a garbage tank.. ergo you fit x3 faction weapon mods to legion you will have , what 3 low slots left for tank. so now you still have low dps Legion and you have a crap tank.. Legion is jack of all trades but master of none.. you can fit legion to do a lot of different roles , but in all cases the t2 variant role specific ship will out perform it now if it could use some drones on that 660 dps fit then maybe it would be more worth it still not grand and at least not as bad
CalinaNightCyn	Posted - 2010.03.24 00:27:00 - [60] Edited by: CalinaNightCyn on 24/03/2010 00:28:27 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: CalinaNightCyn this is a mute point from beginning to end.. 660 dps <--- you think that is good , then fly it.. No. Whether that's good or not is your judgement. Nor is that the point (which would be a moot one, not "mute"). Instead, the point is that your complaint was very much based on incorrect information that came out of you not fitting the thing properly and not understanding why it was incorrect, as demonstrated in this exchange. Now, instead of admitting that you are in error, correcting this problem, and then proceeding to demonstrate why it's still an issue, you're trying to change the subject. This only further intensifies the perception that you don't really understand what you're saying and that you have no basis for your complaint. Quote: personally I would fly a Harbinger for 800 DPS + at a fraction of the cost and use normal t2 heat sinks. Good. Then you have no reason to worry about the Proteus since your Harby will nail it to the floor. As for whether the Legion is crap or not, I couldn't care less. What I do care about is that you're trying to make it out as something it very clearly and very obviously is not. If you want to make the point that the Legion is crap, get your facts straight and argue from there, or your entire argument (and a large part of your credibility on the issue as a whole) will fall, all because of this small, easily avoided error on your part. In short: your argument is based on falsehoods. You need to fix that. sighs I tried alot of different legion fits I clearly stated earlier in the post that you could get a little more dps out of the ship but at the cost of the tank and that is wasn't worth the trade off , as well as I repeatedly said that I was Not here to discuss the 1000's different individual fits of these ships because there largely varied and I wanted to talk about the ship in general. all t3's can get good tank and respectable dps.. all except legion at best you can get okish of one but you lack on the other and that is what makes Legion not up to par with the other ships.. at least when you sacrifice for a buffer tank on another t3 it's massive and the DPS that comes with it is also just as respectable. and further more I never based any complaint on the fact that Legion could or could not do 660 dps, or 500 dps etc I said that it wasn't in line with the Dmg output of other t3's which have far Better dps and tank. and you pulled this 660 dps ** out your ass like it was the answer to the whole **ing problem. t3 ship 660 dps with crap tank isn't inline with the other t3 ships. so really how about reading back and address the issue of the post originally.. other wise you make a "Mute" point, that is beside the issue and not really relevant. just because you can fit x3 heat sinks doesn't mean you should and in case of legion.. it doesn't give enough dps to make it worth the loss of tank, while Proteus will do 330 dps more and still maintain more then 150k ehp buffer tank or better

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