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Nerfing fun: Dramiel

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chrisss0r	Posted - 2010.03.25 19:56:00 - [31] Speed in itself isn't fun. You weren't having fun because you thought "wow 11 km/s this is so much fun hihihi" you were having fun because realtive speeds were **ed up and you could ** on large gangs heads without any consequences "haha, morons, there is nothing they can do" might be fun but it's not balanced.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:00:00 - [32] Originally by: chrisss0r Speed in itself isn't fun. You weren't having fun because you thought "wow 11 km/s this is so much fun hihihi" you were having fun because realtive speeds were **ed up and you could on large gangs heads without any consequences "haha, morons, there is nothing they can do" might be fun but it's not balanced. I cannot fly an interceptor, I do not fly dramiels. The highest speed I have ever flown is about 3 km/s. I killed plenty of interceptors pre nerf and we know plenty of folks I play with that have killed dramiels, they especially value their dramiel kills because of the isk cost to the victim, it is satisfying to kill a dramiel. Originally by:** Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:04:00 - [33] My jag has never had any problems killing drams as long as they come into scram and web range. Neut him dry and that dual prop means nothing. Now getting a competant dram pilot to engage is another matter alltogether. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:05:00 - [34] Quote: Post-Dramiel-boost: the Dramiel is the clear winner. There is NO diversity left. If you have the skills and ISK to fly a Dramiel, you fly a Dramiel because the Dramiel is the best ship in every possible frigate role, and by a huge margin. Respectfully, no. One thing to consider, you should really only be comparing the Dramiel to the other 3 pirate faction frigates as that whole group is designed to be superior to all other frigates... including interceptors and assault frigates. This is intended. Now if you want to complain that the Dramiel is vastly superior to the other 3 pirate faction frigates, thats fine... although don't be suprised if not everyone agrees with you on that score. Second thing to consider, your statement that there is no need to fly any other frigate in the game is completely without merit. There are any number of reasons to fly other frigate class vessels. If you don't understand why I say that, you need to try to experience more of the game. And finally the third thing to consider, Dramiels are rather easy to kill. They are far less of a threat that nano Vaga's or Ishtars used to be, or ceptors for that matter, pre-nano nerf. Any ship that is set up to counter small, fast moving targets can easily one or two volley a Dramiel if at an appropriate range. Would I want to take a Taranis up against a Dramiel? Probably not. The Dramiel is supposed to be superior to a Taranis by design. Would I take a Munin up against multiple Dramiels? If they had a gang mate tackled and I could warp in at range I would gleefully instapop them. I can see making a case for tweeking minor things to attain a better balance between the pirate faction frigate, but thats about it. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:09:00 - [35] Ranger in with a sensible post before me. Plenty of ways to pop them, lots of fun to fly them. It's a winning ship.
Kate Machine	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Ranger 1 Quote: Post-Dramiel-boost: the Dramiel is the clear winner. There is NO diversity left. If you have the skills and ISK to fly a Dramiel, you fly a Dramiel because the Dramiel is the best ship in every possible frigate role, and by a huge margin. Respectfully, no. One thing to consider, you should really only be comparing the Dramiel to the other 3 pirate faction frigates as that whole group is designed to be superior to all other frigates... including interceptors and assault frigates. This is intended. Now if you want to complain that the Dramiel is vastly superior to the other 3 pirate faction frigates, thats fine... although don't be suprised if not everyone agrees with you on that score. Second thing to consider, your statement that there is no need to fly any other frigate in the game is completely without merit. There are any number of reasons to fly other frigate class vessels. If you don't understand why I say that, you need to try to experience more of the game. And finally the third thing to consider, Dramiels are rather easy to kill. They are far less of a threat that nano Vaga's or Ishtars used to be, or ceptors for that matter, pre-nano nerf. Any ship that is set up to counter small, fast moving targets can easily one or two volley a Dramiel if at an appropriate range. Would I want to take a Taranis up against a Dramiel? Probably not. The Dramiel is supposed to be superior to a Taranis by design. Would I take a Munin up against multiple Dramiels? If they had a gang mate tackled and I could warp in at range I would gleefully instapop them. I can see making a case for tweeking minor things to attain a better balance between the pirate faction frigate, but thats about it. Yeah, that guy has some sensefull opinions, listen to him.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:44:00 - [37] Nerfing OP only becomes "nerfing fun" when you know it's OP and you have to resort to guilt tactics to try to save your overpowered toys. History always repeats itself around here... edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Big McLarge'Huge	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Verone Originally by: xXSolarisXx P.S tranais 14 mil in jita dramiel 70mil now what u think the taranis(or any other inty)should be equal to the dramiel? You obviously don't have the first clue about how the market works. The Taranis is so cheap now because demand is so low and people are trying to sell them. Demand is so low because every man and his dog is flying the Dramiel because it's been boosted to hell to be a solo frigate pwn mobile in recent patches. The only reason the Dramiel has spiked in price so much is the exact opposite to the Taranis, demand is high so sellers are pushing up the prices to cut a higher margin. Please get a clue before you post. This nerd just got VEROWNED! amirite?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Wet Ferret Nerfing OP only becomes "nerfing fun" when you know it's OP and you have to resort to guilt tactics to try to save your overpowered toys. History always repeats itself around here... My retribution melts them. My sentinel sucks em dry then kills them. My hauler peppers them to death while laughing at it flails around unable to break the tank. My caracal rips them a new arse my vengence kills them oh so slowly. They are good but not overpowered.
Rabid Clone	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:55:00 - [40] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Wet Ferret Nerfing OP only becomes "nerfing fun" when you know it's OP and you have to resort to guilt tactics to try to save your overpowered toys. History always repeats itself around here... My retribution melts them. My sentinel sucks em dry then kills them. My hauler peppers them to death while laughing at it flails around unable to break the tank. My caracal rips them a new arse my vengence kills them oh so slowly. They are good but not overpowered. Just a little more detailed about fit of that vengeance, pls :D

baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.25 20:57:00 - [41] Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2010 21:03:59 Originally by: Rabid Clone Just a little more detailed about fit of that vengeance, pls :D duel rep tank is cool but the lol rockets take forever to kill anything Speaking of which I might hijack this thread and make it a "boost my rockets already" thread.
small chimp	Posted - 2010.03.25 21:23:00 - [42] yes i am so angyr because dramiel is better than taranis vigilant shuold be nerdfed beecause its better than thorax? yes but vigil is much more expensive than thorax so it should be better?
Epicbeardman	Posted - 2010.03.25 22:43:00 - [43] Quote: Some of these nerfs were beneficial and balancing while others just eliminated some of the fun from eve. People were very unhappy with the fact that they couldn't kill certain players who could fly faster than them. Way to smear your entire argument with stupidity and ignorance. I take solace in the fact that CCP is going to ignore you like they do anyone else that has no idea what he's talking about.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.03.26 00:53:00 - [44] Originally by: Epicbeardman Hello Amberlamps, Do you happen to know where my bag has gone? I believe it was stolen by a young obese female with a dark personality! Nerf Dram, k thx.
Midori Tsu	Posted - 2010.03.26 02:13:00 - [45] lowering the pg would be enough of a nerf for me
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2010.03.26 02:18:00 - [46] Originally by: Ranger 1 Respectfully, no. One thing to consider, you should really only be comparing the Dramiel to the other 3 pirate faction frigates as that whole group is designed to be superior to all other frigates... including interceptors and assault frigates. This is intended. Now if you want to complain that the Dramiel is vastly superior to the other 3 pirate faction frigates, thats fine... although don't be suprised if not everyone agrees with you on that score. Second thing to consider, your statement that there is no need to fly any other frigate in the game is completely without merit. There are any number of reasons to fly other frigate class vessels. If you don't understand why I say that, you need to try to experience more of the game. And finally the third thing to consider, Dramiels are rather easy to kill. They are far less of a threat that nano Vaga's or Ishtars used to be, or ceptors for that matter, pre-nano nerf. Any ship that is set up to counter small, fast moving targets can easily one or two volley a Dramiel if at an appropriate range. Would I want to take a Taranis up against a Dramiel? Probably not. The Dramiel is supposed to be superior to a Taranis by design. Would I take a Munin up against multiple Dramiels? If they had a gang mate tackled and I could warp in at range I would gleefully instapop them. I can see making a case for tweeking minor things to attain a better balance between the pirate faction frigate, but thats about it. 100000000X this^
iudex	Posted - 2010.03.26 07:09:00 - [47] Edited by: iudex on 26/03/2010 07:12:20 We all know, why people want to fly a Dramiel: wannabe-dramiel The price only went up, because there is a new season of Battlestar Galactica running on TV (in Germany every Wednesday for example) and people like to fly the sexy cylone fighter. Nerfing it would be just wrong, after all it costs more to lose one than a fully t2 fitted and platinum insured battleship. I'll try to get the prices down to 55-60mil next weeks, so that more people can afford one of those stylish frigs. _____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.26 07:31:00 - [48] Okay really, for the Nth time, the Dramiel doesn't need a nerf. The only people complaining about it are people who only want to play Eve to win and not play Eve to enjoy the game. Who gives a rat's ass if the Dramiel can clean you up in a 1v1? CCP so many times has shown us that Eve is not a 1v1 game. When you offset two entire classes of ships because the Dramiel "is just that good" you have to consider that there are still going to be people that fly the other ships. This is like saying "but that Lamborghini is SOOO much better than my Honda, it needs a nerf!" F off. People still buy Hondas, even though the Lamborghini is far superior in most ways. Seriously, you guys need to get over yourselves. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.03.26 09:46:00 - [49] Move a mid to low and/or reduce its speed. Quote this if you think its a terrible idea because you happen to fly Dramiels . *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Acedias Atropos Asylum Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2010.03.26 11:57:00 - [50] Edited by: Acedias on 26/03/2010 12:03:30 So.. er.. you blokes complaining about the dramiel are all getting slaughtered by them? Stop exploding you cowards. The game does need diversity. Nerf the raven/navy raven/golem.

Azran Zala Fleet of the Damned	Posted - 2010.03.26 12:12:00 - [51] Edited by: Azran Zala on 26/03/2010 12:14:58 I killed a dramiel with a duel web+scram nano'd characal and a cargohold of nanite repair paste. (granted i had to wait for him to come after me first) Dunno what the big deal is. Cynabal on the other hand.... I see everday in flocks, and cant seem to figure our how to kill them without blobbing them to death, and even then u still have to catch them. Edit: actually got a cynabal killed with same said caracal, but I exploded as backup came in and finished the cynabal off.
small chimp	Posted - 2010.03.26 12:16:00 - [52] Why all these nerf dramiel threads suddenly? Its like angry mob looking for a culprit and a victim for their own failure? Ok nerf falcon wines were justified but this...
MSC Darklord Minmatar Shadow Company	Posted - 2010.03.26 12:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Acedias Stop exploding you cowards. Ah, that episode was awesome, When Aliens Attack. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers. Said after a 60 second shut down notice that was then canceled.
Kate Machine	Posted - 2010.03.26 13:58:00 - [54] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2010 21:03:59 Originally by: Rabid Clone Just a little more detailed about fit of that vengeance, pls :D duel rep tank is cool but the lol rockets take forever to kill anything Speaking of which I might hijack this thread and make it a "boost my rockets already" thread. Drami usually uses AB + MWD + Dis setup, so -> If we take a vengeance to counter it with it's 3 med slots -> AB + Scram + Web -> no cap to run dualrep... Or no propulsion -> Scram+Web+CB -> no chances to catch the guy
Johnny Dexter	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:04:00 - [55] If the only people who enjoy fights with Dramiels are the Dramiel pilots themselves then something is clearly not "working as intended". Don't be so selfish and start thinking what would be the best and most enjoyable for everyone, not just you.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:09:00 - [56] Edited by: baltec1 on 26/03/2010 14:13:34 Originally by: Kate Machine Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2010 21:03:59 Originally by: Rabid Clone Just a little more detailed about fit of that vengeance, pls :D duel rep tank is cool but the lol rockets take forever to kill anything Speaking of which I might hijack this thread and make it a "boost my rockets already" thread. Drami usually uses AB + MWD + Dis setup, so -> If we take a vengeance to counter it with it's 3 med slots -> AB + Scram + Web -> no cap to run dualrep... Or no propulsion -> Scram+Web+CB -> no chances to catch the guy so the ranis should be nerfed for pulling the same trick then? also I go scram-AB-CB.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.26 16:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Artemis Rose Move a mid to low and/or reduce its speed. Quote this if you think its a terrible idea because you happen to fly Dramiels . I think its a terrible idea and I don't fly drams I fly jags. The jag Is a vastly superiour ship to the dram with the same dps, moar usable tank and the ability to actualy survive tackling ships that would instamelt the dram. People just have this instant dislike for ships that can disengage is all. Though how a dram is considered op when it constantly has to run away and so contribute nothing to the fight beyond some emo rage at not killing it is beyond me. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Kate Machine	Posted - 2010.03.26 16:46:00 - [58] Edited by: Kate Machine on 26/03/2010 16:48:35 Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 26/03/2010 14:13:34 Originally by: Kate Machine Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2010 21:03:59 Originally by: Rabid Clone Just a little more detailed about fit of that vengeance, pls :D duel rep tank is cool but the lol rockets take forever to kill anything Speaking of which I might hijack this thread and make it a "boost my rockets already" thread. Drami usually uses AB + MWD + Dis setup, so -> If we take a vengeance to counter it with it's 3 med slots -> AB + Scram + Web -> no cap to run dualrep... Or no propulsion -> Scram+Web+CB -> no chances to catch the guy so the ranis should be nerfed for pulling the same trick then? also I go scram-AB-CB. Come on! Taranis (3low-3med-4high-2rigs) goes ~ 4km/s, shoots 5km with blasters (180dps) / 13km with rails (for 85dps), has 2 drones, no web in dualprop... (overall dps ~ 211) and Dramiel (3low-4med-3high-3rigs) goes ~ 5.5km/s, shoots at 15km with autocanons (120), has 3 drones, dualprop + dis and web... (overall dps ~ 183) so Dramiel has more range, more firepower, more speed, more ability to disengage (AB+Web) And I am both hands for the Drami, actually, dunno, why have you thought otherwise?
Pharago Gallente Piratas Leprosos Guineanos CorsarioS.	Posted - 2010.03.26 16:56:00 - [59] Originally by: small chimp Why all these nerf dramiel threads suddenly? Its like angry mob looking for a culprit and a victim for their own failure? Ok nerf falcon wines were justified but this... I don't want to seem presumptuous, but i can tell you that our corp has been on the dramiel pain train roaming at least for a week and voilß all these 'nerf dramiel' threads start to appear on the forums. We are not so important, so i think im going a bit over my head, dunno what to make out of all of this, dramiel is good as it is, maybe give it a little more PW, or some shield EM resist, wut? we all want stuff from the devs, do we?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.26 17:18:00 - [60] Quote: One thing to consider, you should really only be comparing the Dramiel to the other 3 pirate faction frigates as that whole group is designed to be superior to all other frigates... including interceptors and assault frigates. This is intended Where did CCP write that? Linky? Are them also designed to be superior to the empire faction frigs? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz



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