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BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare	Posted - 2010.04.13 05:53:00 - [1] Edited by: BeanBagKing on 13/04/2010 05:53:46 I just finished reading over the new dev blog HERE to discover that CCP doesn't like it when there is "a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots"". Well I see that if you re-word some of the blog you get this... Quote: Originally by: "CCP Lemur" This creates a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots": as a new player coming into the game, the only way you'd be able to ~~reach points outside the system proper~~ get a T2 BPO would be to acquire a ~~bookmark~~ T2 BPO from an older player. Thank you Tres Farmer So my suggestion is to now destroy all the T2 BPO's! No need to compensate anyone, just give them some warning and then POOF! delete them all! MWAHAHAHAHAHA! So CCP, now that we are taking away anything in the game that makes life for new players unfair, when can we expect this change? I hope next week so that my T2 BPC's become much more valuable (not).
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.04.13 06:12:00 - [2] no....t2 bpo hater's tears, best tears.
Void Kraken	Posted - 2010.04.13 06:19:00 - [3] yes....t2 bpo owner's tears, best tears.
Reggie Stoneloader JAFA Trade and Manufacturing Cooperative	Posted - 2010.04.13 06:20:00 - [4] T2 BPOs are okay by me. The lottery was a long time ago, and nowadays the demand is so great that BPO holders can't possibly meet it. Thus, inventors have a huge influence on market averages. A T2 BPO is great, because you can research it and use it to reduce your production costs, but you're just enjoying more profit from your sales, you aren't selling it below an inventor's production costs. It hurts the feelings a little when you see guys who have it easy, but it's no more abhorrent than getting owned by guys who have the cash, skillpoints and infrastructure to hot-drop your gate camp, or jumping into a wormhole to see that somebody already set up shop there and is farming all the goodies with his two triage carriers. ====================== Crusades: Security Status
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.04.13 07:45:00 - [5] Originally by: BeanBagKing [So CCP, now that we are taking away anything in the game that makes life for new players unfair, when can we expect this change? This in a dev blog ? Can I tack on some items? While t2 gets destroyed, lets get rid of all researched bpos. Just not fair a 4 year old indy has a high me raven bpo to reduce cost of BS' in his golem production line. We all get 0/0 bpo's...anything else would too advantageous. And alliance tourney prizes from any tourney prior to last year, wipe those too. I could not grace such tourney's with my presence, and I do like those prize ships from years past. fact I was not playing is immaterial. Some guy has an op ship that would whoop my butt in pvp cause he was playing 2 years ago and I wasn't...that injustice needs to be resolved with a quickness lol.
Euphoria May	Posted - 2010.04.13 07:52:00 - [6] seems to me a good idea.... at least everyone will play with the same rules :)
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare	Posted - 2010.04.13 07:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Misanthra Originally by: BeanBagKing [So CCP, now that we are taking away anything in the game that makes life for new players unfair, when can we expect this change? This in a dev blog ? Can I tack on some items? While t2 gets destroyed, lets get rid of all researched bpos. Just not fair a 4 year old indy has a high me raven bpo to reduce cost of BS' in his golem production line. We all get 0/0 bpo's...anything else would too advantageous. And alliance tourney prizes from any tourney prior to last year, wipe those too. I could not grace such tourney's with my presence, and I do like those prize ships from years past. fact I was not playing is immaterial. Some guy has an op ship that would whoop my butt in pvp cause he was playing 2 years ago and I wasn't...that injustice needs to be resolved with a quickness lol. Finally someone is getting into the spirit of this post! Those unique ships are DEFIANTLY unfair! Remove them all! Anything that will give players an advantage just because of their age needs to be nerfed! Wait, because SP is based on age, that means players like me are at a disadvantage to those that have been playing since 2004, NERF SP! Reset everything to 0!
ULTImatio	Posted - 2010.04.13 08:24:00 - [8] Edited by: ULTImatio on 13/04/2010 08:27:58 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=748 All Deep-Safe-Spots will be removed on Tyrannis patch deployment. Dam whatÆs that about, every new player can make those. Check this CCP source: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safe_Spot_Bookmarking Read this article CCP posts: http://sites.google.com/site/lsouljacker/home/Poseidon-Manual.pdf Now CCP forced me on a personal mission to attack the T2 BPO holders. If CCP takes away my safe spots then they have to take away there T2 BPOÆs ItÆs just unfair based on the following principle: QUOTE: On top of this, in Tyrannis we're (hopefully!) removing the last of the various bugs that allow deep safes to be created. This will place us firmly into a situation where the only way to access locations outside the system proper will be via "legacy" bookmarks. This creates a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots": as a new player coming into the game, the only way you'd be able to reach points outside the system proper would be to acquire a bookmark from an older player. So hereby I call upon you all to send in a T2 BPO EXPLOID to CCP.
Aylara	Posted - 2010.04.13 09:04:00 - [9] Yep, take T2 BPO's out from the game. Level a little bit the play field.
Lord Dralos	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:07:00 - [10] getting rid of the bpos wont change a thing imo it will only give those who have tons of bpc's stocked away a massive cash gain hence turning the have nots into the haves to bring things in line and to use a very rarely used skill with the launch of planets should allow the use of archeology with a % chance factor on finding new bpo's to allow the have nots a chance to become a have not take away something just because you think its not fair i mean come on lol. im a miner and industrialist take away all t2 and t3 warships and weapons and make things fairer for me and my kind lol not gonna happen and nor should it.
Hadrian Walls	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:33:00 - [11] How about a new way to create T2 BPO's for newer players? Such as 100 T2 BPC's (of same ME/PE/Runs), a research Database of the relevant NPC Corp, maybe extra Datacores, could (with a chance of success) be turned into a T2 BPO. This would still mean a substantial amount of invention work to create, but makes T2 BPO's accessible to everyone.
Seishi Maru 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:58:00 - [12] Supportted! No DOUBLE face values CCP! IF THe deep safes that were meaningful and SMART usage of game mechanics by players are to be nerfed and the shisp they stored there destroyed, because older players shoudl NOT have advantage. Then KEEP YOUR WORD! And REMOVE t2 BPOs from game! They are far more "exploitable" and have far more negative competition effect than deep safes.
Grarr Dexx Amarr GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:04:00 - [13] Quote: God, this pointless T2 BPO drivel again. Some facts: 95% of the current T2 BPO holders didn't gain it through the original lottery, but investment. People who buy the BPO's often do so at insane prices: most owners will only part with the BPO for a price that would equal three to five years of non-stop usage. Even though T2 BPC's have a detrimental -4 ME/PE, they can still be mass produced unlike the BPO's solid number. This is why small/medium ammo BPO's aren't very profitable at all. T2 BPC's can provide WAY more profit than BPO's if you're smart and hard-working. So what if 'it isn't fair'. Is anything in Eve ever fair? If you so want a BPO, start saving up. Or do you just want it easy? I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. ___
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:08:00 - [14] Needed to happen a LONG time ago. That or add a very low chance to score a bpo with every invention job. Or come up with a way for invention to be just as effecient. I was around for the suck ass lotto. I didn't get a bpo, as most people didn't. I'd have loved to have gotten rich early on, and would love the extra cash for less work they bring in versus invention. Less time working for isk and more time for pvp. Originally by: Misanthra While t2 gets destroyed, lets get rid of all researched bpos. Just not fair a 4 year old indy has a high me raven bpo to reduce cost of BS' in his golem production line. We all get 0/0 bpo's...anything else would too advantageous. Really? Wow, how come my T1 BPO quality has ZERO effect on my T2 BPCs? Better do some research. The rest of your post is way off too. New players can put in the time and research thier readily availible t1 BPOs. Not so with with T2 BPOs. As for the tourney reward ships, who the hell would fly those in pvp? Are you smoking dope? There was one Golden Magnate EVER. It's gone because it was used in pvp. 'Twould be nice if there were an extrememly difficult way to obtain more of these ultra rare ships, but there's zero reason to remove them. They are a non factor in pvp.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:15:00 - [15] Quote: God, this pointless T2 BPO drivel again. Some facts: 95% of the current T2 BPO holders didn't gain it through the original lottery, but investment. People who buy the BPO's often do so at insane prices: most owners will only part with the BPO for a price that would equal three to five years of non-stop usage. Even though T2 BPC's have a detrimental -4 ME/PE, they can still be mass produced unlike the BPO's solid number. This is why small/medium ammo BPO's aren't very profitable at all. T2 BPC's can provide WAY more profit than BPO's if you're smart and hard-working. So what if 'it isn't fair'. Is anything in Eve ever fair? If you so want a BPO, start saving up. Or do you just want it easy? I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Just because people made stupid investments, doesn't mean T2 BPOs should be left as they are. The fact that people are willing to spend obscene amounts of isk on them should indicate something.
Linistitul	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Linistitul on 13/04/2010 12:10:16 Originally by: Torothanax Quote: God, this pointless T2 BPO drivel again. Some facts: 95% of the current T2 BPO holders didn't gain it through the original lottery, but investment. People who buy the BPO's often do so at insane prices: most owners will only part with the BPO for a price that would equal three to five years of non-stop usage. Even though T2 BPC's have a detrimental -4 ME/PE, they can still be mass produced unlike the BPO's solid number. This is why small/medium ammo BPO's aren't very profitable at all. T2 BPC's can provide WAY more profit than BPO's if you're smart and hard-working. So what if 'it isn't fair'. Is anything in Eve ever fair? If you so want a BPO, start saving up. Or do you just want it easy? I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Just because people made stupid investments, doesn't mean T2 BPOs should be left as they are. The fact that people are willing to spend obscene amounts of isk on them should indicate something. Also you can always resell that T2 BPO and get your investment back + a very fat profit. Soooo CCP, don't use double standards, remove the T2 BPO's
Grarr Dexx Amarr GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Torothanax Quote: God, this pointless T2 BPO drivel again. Some facts: 95% of the current T2 BPO holders didn't gain it through the original lottery, but investment. People who buy the BPO's often do so at insane prices: most owners will only part with the BPO for a price that would equal three to five years of non-stop usage. Even though T2 BPC's have a detrimental -4 ME/PE, they can still be mass produced unlike the BPO's solid number. This is why small/medium ammo BPO's aren't very profitable at all. T2 BPC's can provide WAY more profit than BPO's if you're smart and hard-working. So what if 'it isn't fair'. Is anything in Eve ever fair? If you so want a BPO, start saving up. Or do you just want it easy? I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Just because people made stupid investments, doesn't mean T2 BPOs should be left as they are. The fact that people are willing to spend obscene amounts of isk on them should indicate something. Stupid investments? They played the game as it was given to them, and they're dumb for doing that? No, they're smart, and can make a decent amount of money because they were smart enough to think that way. They can't help it that you're too lazy and effortless to do what they did. ___
Seishi Maru 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:23:00 - [18] As are some peopel too lazy to learn to make their own deep safes? Its the SAME THING! No double standards shoudl be in game. Tranform all T2 bpos in 100 run BPCs and DONE.
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Misanthra While t2 gets destroyed, lets get rid of all researched bpos. Just not fair a 4 year old indy has a high me raven bpo to reduce cost of BS' in his golem production line. We all get 0/0 bpo's...anything else would too advantageous. Everyone can get T1 BPO and having them at resoanbvel lvl (say 500 me and 50 te) is only matter of few nonts, but normal player have no chance of aguiting t2 BPO. Yes, T2 owners dont rule market, but they have much bigger profit than others. Advanatge of longer time, more skills isnt enough for you ? ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente Originally by: Misanthra While t2 gets destroyed, lets get rid of all researched bpos. Just not fair a 4 year old indy has a high me raven bpo to reduce cost of BS' in his golem production line. We all get 0/0 bpo's...anything else would too advantageous. Everyone can get T1 BPO and having them at resoanbvel lvl (say 500 me and 50 te) is only matter of few nonts, but normal player have no chance of aguiting t2 BPO. Yes, T2 owners dont rule market, but they have much bigger profit than others. Advanatge of longer time, more skills isnt enough for you ? you can make some isk and buy a T2 BPO. there are tons of them on sale atm. p.s.: ME 500 is waste of a lot of money.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:54:00 - [21] Completely erroneous comparison, even with the fancy colouration and strike-throughs: Bookmarks can be created, copied and destroyed at will .. BPO's can only be destroyed. One could use the same quote to justify giving all new players 35M skill points and umpteen billion as a "leg up". Apples and Oranges. PS: I hate fruit!
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:13:00 - [22] T2 bpo's are just unfair. Sure you can make bpc's but bpo owners still have free isk for no effort at all compared to all that trouble first making t2 bpc (LOL LUCK BASED/NO ME/PE). T2 bpo lottery was most stupid thing in eve this far.
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:21:00 - [23] Originally by: darius mclever you can make some isk and buy a T2 BPO. there are tons of them on sale atm. p.s.: ME 500 is waste of a lot of money. Translate - work hard for that someone get for free. ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn T2 bpo's are just unfair. Sure you can make bpc's but bpo owners still have free isk for no effort at all compared to all that trouble first making t2 bpc (LOL LUCK BASED/NO ME/PE). T2 bpo lottery was most stupid thing in eve this far. Don't worry, just wiping t2 bpos would top lottery easily when it comes to stupidity of ideas. Not to mention that it would require at least 4-5 years announcement before it will actually happen (otherwise we will have effect similar to tractor beams). Not to mention that invention is very profitable, just invent something where there is less competition. Read latest "THE WORD"
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente Originally by: darius mclever you can make some isk and buy a T2 BPO. there are tons of them on sale atm. p.s.: ME 500 is waste of a lot of money. Translate - work hard for that someone get for free. No one has got them free. Even the original lotto winners had to work for the standing with the R&D agents, train for the R&D skills and accumulate RP that were all spent when they got a BPO. It can seem little to you that have started playing with the nice x2 training speed bonus and the easy to get stat implants, but in a time when 2 million made you a good character, having 2 million SP in R&D alone was a way to seriously cripple your character for any other activity.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:39:00 - [26] Edited by: Torothanax on 13/04/2010 23:42:30 Originally by: Grarr Dexx Stupid investments? They played the game as it was given to them, and they're dumb for doing that? No, they're smart, and can make a decent amount of money because they were smart enough to think that way. They can't help it that you're too lazy and effortless to do what they did. Smart? Paying billions for an item that "supposedly" takes 5 years to pay off? BTW the majority of t2 bpo holders are or were rich null sec alliance leadership that made most of thier money off all but free moon mining and ultra rich space. They didn't work any harder then I have in game. They just started a bit earlier then I did and claimed valueable space. Space that provided enough wealth to make them almost impossible to dislodge. Concentration of wealth. Not a good thing.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Venkul Mul No one has got them free. Even the original lotto winners had to work for the standing with the R&D agents, train for the R&D skills and accumulate RP that were all spent when they got a BPO. Which is the same thing you do know for invention. Only now there are no chances for a T2 BPO. Thousands of people did the same back then for the lotto and got nothing. Me included. So yeah, orginally they were pretty much free to a lucky few. Having a monopoly for almost 2 years on t2 production didn't hurt them any either.
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Torothanax They didn't work any harder then I have in game. They just started a bit earlier then I did and claimed valueable space. Space that provided enough wealth to make them almost impossible to dislodge. Concentration of wealth. Not a good thing. Have you lived in null sec? Alliances work damn hard at keeping their space. have you organized fuel for 50+ cap fleets, planned out days of ops based on pos timers and worked out financing reimbursements for the 10's if not hundreds of ships that can be lost in a busy weekend. Alliances do week,month, hell year long campaigns to either defend or take space. Not easy stuff... Secondly not impossible to dislodge. In the past few months fountain and delve saw lots of SOV changes. Maybe more to follow as the current war unfolds. Pick a side and join the fight. GF's to be had by all. Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente Originally by: darius mclever you can make some isk and buy a T2 BPO. there are tons of them on sale atm. p.s.: ME 500 is waste of a lot of money. Translate - work hard for that someone get for free. have you done this? How the hell is it free? Researching for each race is approx 40 mil per race for skillbooks. Lab and research skills, again lots of isk. My most expensive toon to skill up is my indy...and he only does 2 races and builds up to T2 cruisers Building up R&D agents....a spec'd RP collector exhanges high paying missions for longer range goals. Since usually not combat specialists...farming damsels and extravaganza's just not in the cards for them. People a few years back got a nice reward for grinding up this crap. good for them. All I get is "free" datacores for sale or invention...meh, better than nothing I say.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:52:00 - [29] Originally by: Misanthra Have you lived in null sec? Alliances work damn hard at keeping their space. have you organized fuel for 50+ cap fleets, planned out days of ops based on pos timers and worked out financing reimbursements for the 10's if not hundreds of ships that can be lost in a busy weekend. Alliances do week,month, hell year long campaigns to either defend or take space. Not easy stuff... Secondly not impossible to dislodge. In the past few months fountain and delve saw lots of SOV changes. Maybe more to follow as the current war unfolds. Pick a side and join the fight. GF's to be had by all. Yes, yes, and yes. In the drone regions actually, which is alot more work for less profit. How long did Bob rule supreem? Since 2004? Why did they crash and burn? Internal sabotage and goons. Basicly. You'll recall sweeping changes to null sec and sov recently as well. Or did you sleep through that?
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.04.14 02:22:00 - [30] Slept lol....I live my life one pos bash at a time lol. Dulls the senses. that and newish player (oldest toon is like 9 months :( ). Why I don't see why the its not fair argument exists. I came to terms with it long ago. Guy got a reward back in the day and still around to use it. Good on him. Its always new players as well. Only people with semi-legit gripes would be those playing at the time...and didn't win the lottery. Yet I never see them in any of these threads. Probably because they knew it was a LOTTERY...few people won, many lost. Lost over 150 mil in lotteries recently...why its called chance lol. Every other other MMO out there rewards long term players, why should eve be different. Cool in an alliance btw...least not like half these people who complain about them but no balz to actually go live the life a bit.

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