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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:54:08
Hello,
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
NRDS is a really cool concept, I wanted to discuss what will become of the NRDS attitude, will it fade away or will it rise once again. NBSI seems to be winning the battle at the moment with Providence falling, my project Hub Zero also fell.
I wanted to get ideas flowing on how to combat NBSI in this game, id like to view this thread as a meeting point for people that have strong opinions on NRDS. I myself will always be NRDS.
I guess the main objective is to get a consortium going, which id enjoy being a part of, I feel NRDS has to re-invent itself, and perhaps focusing more on fleet warfare and PVP. its apparent NRDS dudes dont have that killer instinct which in my opinion is a requirement for NRDS.
Im very enthusiastic about forming a channel, and perhaps elements of CVA could head this up. it appears whatever we do we will have to start from the ground upward and rebuild everything.
I really feel there is somthing here worth investigating. Im prepared to devote my entire eve existance to this.
Ok, so lets get this thread started, I would please ask that we keep trolling to a minimum, I really dont mind a bit of good natured teasing, try not to disparage anyone, lets be adult about it, and ultimatley have some fun.
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Dianeces
SiN. Corp
Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:55:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
Nobody knows who you are.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:57:00 -
[3]
NRDS is an excellent concept and, as long as space is patrolled, defense fleets don't nearly entirely consist of Drakes, and the sov holders know how to PVP, is an idea worth fighting for.
Also lolrp should never be put ahead of surival, because that is when you end up rotating in Jita, because it's cute and fun until you have nothing to roleplay over.
If your idea isn't to rp, but to really carve a piece of space for yourself, so NRDS can continue to exist, then I wish you the best of luck.
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Riedle
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Riedle on 21/04/2010 15:58:48
What, you can't stand that your old threadnaught got closed so you are trying to start another one?
Quote:
Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequaled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion
Firmly convinced that they are unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions
Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation ù or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply
Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with their unreasonable expectations for special and favorable priority treatment.
Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve their own ends;
Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;
Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of their frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions stemming from a belief that others are envious of them and are likely to act similarly
Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking).
Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people they consider inferior to themselves and unworthy.
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Dagny Bronstein
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:57:00 -
[5]
You might want to take notice that with U'K and the Jericho Fraction two well-known NRDS entities have recently been able to take/expand their space 
There's more to the world of NRDS than just you & CVA and NRDS is far from dying.
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:58:00 -
[6]
hi cat here
i think nrds is the best kind of policy because it means that unless someone is your enemy, they are your friend lol
i think we should make more friends in eve and make it a more productive environment where people can go about their business in safety lol
xxx
♥ VOTE CAT ♥
my facebook! | Safety Dance
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:58:00 -
[7]
Did I slip and click CAOD?
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 21/04/2010 15:59:37
NBSI is Team Deathmatch in Space.
0.0 can be put to far greater uses.
-
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aaron
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I have absolutely no idea who you are, but if you're so well known why aren't you getting this underway instead of asking others to get it underway with/for you?
And I think NRDS is a great idea and loved how CVA kept their space safe for so long, but you're right, to protect peaces often means fighting big fights so yeah, you'd need a large focus on joint defense.
.
[Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels] |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dagny Bronstein
You might want to take notice that with U'K and the Jericho Fraction two well-known NRDS entities have recently been able to take/expand their space
There's more to the world of NRDS than just you & CVA and NRDS is far from dying.
U'K is NRDS? I can head to their space and not get shot by them?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I don't have the tiniest bit of a clue who you are.
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Dagny Bronstein
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Dagny Bronstein
You might want to take notice that with U'K and the Jericho Fraction two well-known NRDS entities have recently been able to take/expand their space
There's more to the world of NRDS than just you & CVA and NRDS is far from dying.
U'K is NRDS? I can head to their space and not get shot by them?
responding to likely troll but w/e...
U'K has operated NRDS (with the exception of Catch & Providence) for a very long time now; before they were kicked out of Providence they operated NRDS in their sov systems in Providence & Catch, too.
Not sure on their current status/plans, but last I read was that expectations are they will return to operating NRDS in Providence but stay allied with -A- (so you would be shot in their space by -A- and not by U'K).
I mainly invoked U'K to show that there are other approaches to NRDS in EVE than CVA's forced standings & space police policy.
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Triethylene
Minmatar
Local-Spike
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I don't have the tiniest bit of a clue who you are.
You have confused 'lots of you' with 'you'. Get a clue.
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Triethylene
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I don't have the tiniest bit of a clue who you are.
You have confused 'lots of you' with 'you'. Get a clue.
You have confused "I" with "We". Get a clue. 
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dagny Bronstein
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Dagny Bronstein
You might want to take notice that with U'K and the Jericho Fraction two well-known NRDS entities have recently been able to take/expand their space
There's more to the world of NRDS than just you & CVA and NRDS is far from dying.
U'K is NRDS? I can head to their space and not get shot by them?
responding to likely troll but w/e...
U'K has operated NRDS (with the exception of Catch & Providence) for a very long time now; before they were kicked out of Providence they operated NRDS in their sov systems in Providence & Catch, too.
Not sure on their current status/plans, but last I read was that expectations are they will return to operating NRDS in Providence but stay allied with -A- (so you would be shot in their space by -A- and not by U'K).
I mainly invoked U'K to show that there are other approaches to NRDS in EVE than CVA's forced standings & space police policy.
I think it would be terrebly difficult to operate an NRDS policy while being allied to -A-, i can already see lots of confusion.
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Ryhss
Caldari
The Templar Navy
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:57:00 -
[16]
I love NRDS but I think NBSI works too, certain alliances it fits. It's all a RP thing IMO.
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hi cat here
i think nrds is the best kind of policy because it means that unless someone is your enemy, they are your friend lol
i think we should make more friends in eve and make it a more productive environment where people can go about their business in safety lol
xxx
^ This :3
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Dagny Bronstein
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aaron
I think it would be terrebly difficult to operate an NRDS policy while being allied to -A-, i can already see lots of confusion.
I like to differentiate between a "wide" and a "narrow" definition of NRDS.
The narrow one is simple: "don't shoot neutrals unprovoked"; this does not entail preventing your friends from shooting neutrals or protecting neutrals against reds.
The wide one would at least entail to prevent your friends from shooting neutrals in your space (which brings the need for shared standing lists between you and your friends, otherwise your friends/allies will always argue: "but he was red to me") and perhaps some expectation to protect neutrals from reds when you happen to notice the fighting.
I prefer the "narrow" definition of NRDS as imho the wide one impairs your autonomy/the autonomy of your allies to an undue degree by requiring shared standing lists to work acceptably.
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Nobzy
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aaron
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I know who you are, and I can be considered lots of people.
So enough of that.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:17:00 -
[20]
Ok, what about the PVP aspect of enforcing NRDS?
Before Providence went down I had heard news of a big cap fleet battle (CVA vs -A-) involving like 100 cap ships and support fleets, I was suprised to hear that -A- didnt lose a single cap ship while CVA lost all of theirs.
There are many facilities in place to help Fleet comanders become better at their job, these include perhaps spending time on the test servers, and doing scenarios to find out the best tactics when in a cap fleet battle.
I feel that with a strong level of teamwork the NRDS leaders can really become a force to be rekoned with. i believe that NRDS actually outnumbers NBSI. with this in mind surley it would be possible for the NRDS consortium to be the most feared people in the game.
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Cynthia Ysolde
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:19:00 -
[21]
**** you, drakes ****ing own
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Triethylene
Minmatar
Local-Spike
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Triethylene
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
I don't have the tiniest bit of a clue who you are.
You have confused 'lots of you' with 'you'. Get a clue.
You have confused "I" with "We". Get a clue.
It is you that have confused 'Us' with 'Them' 
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Ptarmigent
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aaron
So theres, Jericho, UK, and CVA all doing their bit for the NRDS plight. Perhaps learders of these alliances could get together and decide how NRDS is going to be implemented in EVe, from my experience, NRDS is quite difficult to manage when numbers are limited.
Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical.
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained. |
Syn Callibri
Swag Co.
Sandbox Bullies
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Triethylene
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Triethylene
Originally by: Swiftgaze
I don't have the tiniest bit of a clue who you are.[/quote
You have confused 'lots of you' with 'you'. Get a clue.
You have confused "I" with "We". Get a clue.
It is you that have confused 'Us' with 'Them'
You've all confused "some" and "none".
"I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it." |
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CCP Shadow
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:31:00 -
[25]
Moved from EVE General Discussion to Warfare & Tactics. Hopefully, more civil than CAOD. Carry on.
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Kirra Liu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Hopefully, more civil than CAOD. Carry on.
That is what we call wishful thinking.
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Tokyo Vigilante
Amarr
Origin.
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2010.04.22 11:28:00 -
[27]
Erm I would like to think we all play to pew and to that effect NRDS is a silly concept IMO. You want to PvE stay hassle free in high sec.
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So Sensational
Tutorial and High Security Quality Assurance Team
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: So Sensational on 22/04/2010 12:16:59
Edited by: So Sensational on 22/04/2010 12:15:11
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Aaron
Im sure lots of you know who I am.
Nobody knows who you are.
I'm a nobody, and I don't. Your statement is a paradox because it's true and false at the same time, are you God?
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hgedsku
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Aaron
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:54:08
Hello,
Im sure lots of you know who I am. ...
Confirming, like the others have, that I have no idea who you are as well.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:34:00 -
[30]
Quote:
U'K has operated NRDS (with the exception of Catch & Providence) for a very long time now;
Combine it with this:
Quote:
U'K has operated almost solely in Catch & Providence for a very long time now;
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Nykitah
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:55:00 -
[31]
Well, if CVA hadn't been sending NBSI gank squads to kill our carebears, maybe we would've been allies.
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SecHaul
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Posted - 2010.04.22 19:41:00 -
[32]
Edited by: SecHaul on 22/04/2010 19:42:21
Considering most NBSI corps and alliances are napped with every entity around them, most operate on a light NRDS policy anyway since anyone not "red" isn't blue.
Very few NRDS alliances will consistently not attack neutrals (and defend neutrals to enfore the NRDS), CVA was one of the few that operated a strict policy.
Quite frankly I wish standings could be removed entirely from the game and let this be managed manually rather than via nice little EVE icons. A few friendly fire incidents and reduction in free local intel would go a long way to hard-core NBSI alliances napped with every entity 100 jumps around them slightly interesting.
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Ramiera DaMorre
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Posted - 2010.04.23 00:33:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aaron
it would be possible for the NRDS consortium to be the most feared people in the game.
Quote:
feared
The ****?! 
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Chocratess
Swedish Death Machine 2.0
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Posted - 2010.04.23 03:05:00 -
[34]
well im a nobody and i dont know who you are, but i'll continue to attempt to further nrds as best i can.
Touch not the Cat bot a Glove |
Dalv Fliteo
Minmatar
Not Another One Man Corporation
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Posted - 2010.05.04 04:23:00 -
[35]
Just posting to confirm.. that yes i actually do know who you are Aaron :)
You're a big very very very stupid guy. Someone could actually classify you as a moron.
And your mother is very very very very very fat.
I know this for a fact because i slept with her.
NRDS: "i don't like this guy i'm just gonna set him red and shoot him"
NBSI: "i like this guy so i'm gonna set him blue and not shoot him"
This is all this discussion is about ?
******ed. If you like NRDS go to hisec. Or start getting used to NBSI surrounding you everywhere. Otherwise you will just turn into a little scared piece of female genitales ready to be torn apart by the large erectile predators out there.
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Perfect Market
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Posted - 2010.05.04 04:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dalv Fliteo
Just posting to confirm.. that yes i actually do know who you are Aaron :)
You're a big very very very stupid guy. Someone could actually classify you as a moron.
And your mother is very very very very very fat.
I know this for a fact because i slept with her.
NRDS: "i don't like this guy i'm just gonna set him red and shoot him"
NBSI: "i like this guy so i'm gonna set him blue and not shoot him"
This is all this discussion is about ?
******ed. If you like NRDS go to hisec. Or start getting used to NBSI surrounding you everywhere. Otherwise you will just turn into a little scared piece of female genitales ready to be torn apart by the large erectile predators out there.
Quality post bro.
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Protector X
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Posted - 2010.05.09 12:49:00 -
[37]
I am a winner on the NRDS concept, is there any 0.0 space that operates this, there would definately need to be shared standings amongst participating corporations. A mOsTly safe 0.0 space to rat, mine and travel almost sounds to good to be true.
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edeity
Amarr
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Blood Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.10 00:03:00 -
[38]
You can use basic game theory on determining success / fail of nrds. Normally encounters in 0.0 are a prisoners dilemma game. In this game you are stupid to collaborate so you should shoot immediately because you can also assume they will do this. Either party gets a massive payoff if they can pretend to be peaceful but then turn nasty - I.e noon or freighter baitship.
CVA turned providence from prisoners dilemma to a co-ordination game. This was done by having significant positive and negative effects of betrayal. U'k and other nrds alliances fail to do this, therefore their nrds isn't going to be successful and will mean a lot of people die and then give up on it except in maybe name.
Why CVA failed was not scaling their positive and negatives. Their only protection was scale of positive and negative consequence - both were needed. Without the scaling they had no defense against a strategic threat that broke down the weighting of benefits of nrds. It wasn't AAA or U'K that defeated CVA - cva killed themselves by complacency.
If your serious about nrds it will require massive scale and offer serious upside and downside in a strategic context for players- I.e they need to regret or to be happy with their choice in response to nrds because of it's wallet impacts on at least a 12 month horizon. If you cannot do that, forget about nrds.
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BuRniZZ
Caldari
The Warped Corpe
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.05.10 12:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Aaron
i believe that NRDS actually outnumbers NBSI. with this in mind surley it would be possible for the NRDS consortium to be the most feared people in the game.
You might be right in thinking NRDS outnumbers NBSI but that would be irrelevant since most of them live in highsec anyways.
Btw: CONCORD is the only NRDS entity that really controls it's space.
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Roosterton
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Posted - 2010.05.10 14:28:00 -
[40]
All you nubs who don't know who Aaron is need to read General Discussion more.
That is all.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.23 05:06:00 -
[41]
Obviously NRDS vs NBSI is the same as civilization vs chaos.
I never cease to be surprised by the uncivilized manner that certain posters here present.
The organizations that practise universal NRDS need to get together, team up, and share a KOS list. I am personally all for 100% dedication to NRDS and the purification of the dirtier elements of this galaxy.
So, fighters for NRDS, civilization and true freedom,
freedom from the tyranny of the pirate horde alliances and corps that roam in 0.0 and low sec, lets stand together. Lets fight for a decent New Eden.
Aaron, (or anyone else who is pro-NRDS) if you are interested in talking more with me join the public channel of the Yulai Guard " YULAI-PUB ", or contact me directly in game via Convo, or EVEmail. To see what our corporation is about check out the following 2 pages:
http://yulaiguard.net16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5
http://yulaiguard.net16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4
I want to say thankyou to Aaron for bringing this most important topic to our attention, hope to speak with some of you later.
Honour and Decency! o7
// Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
---
Empress Jamyl I |
Ramiera DaMorre
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Posted - 2010.05.23 06:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Obviously NRDS vs NBSI is the same as civilization vs chaos.
Civilization is about raping and plundering and converting by force.
Oh sure, I know that's an exaggeration and not entirely true, really, I do.
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Kazzzi
Amarr
Iniquitous Technologies
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.05.23 07:57:00 -
[43]
Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?
If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300. |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.23 08:08:00 -
[44]
Um, who the hell are you now?
Originally by: Kazzzi
Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?
If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300.
Most NBSI entities have blue lists of well over 300.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.23 08:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kazzzi
Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?
If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300.
It's been changed to 2600.
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flier1285
Oblivion Of Shadows
Blood Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.24 00:19:00 -
[46]
I have been in corps with both NRDS and NBSI. NBSI has more going for it in my opinion cause it allows you to get off the 1st shot when it could mean the fight (or in my case get into position to fight as I'm Gallente.) NRDS is alright but from the ones I've been around it is hard to defend your home from people.
all an attacker has to do is send a neutral into most NRDS space and get intel, then bring in there ships and way waste to everything. I do see NRDS has more of a team feel to it but I prefer to keep everyone out of my home if at all possible. So when those backup ships do get there we can some surprises of defending our home turf.
As for continuing the NRDS policy, I think it might have to adapt an NBSI policy in there home systems and a NRDS policy when out roaming or such.
That is my 2 isk worth.
Flier1285
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Zak'eni
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Posted - 2010.05.24 09:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
**** you, drakes ****ing own
qt
why would you remove the defining thing of NRDS
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Entrepaz
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Posted - 2010.05.24 21:41:00 -
[48]
I think NRDS is about profit and building wealth. It is an open market where there is the rule of law. Enforcing the law is always imperfect, always difficult in communities where some are unknown (or many), but NRDS represents that rule of law and the idea that our communities can be true empires of their own.
NBSI is, You kill if you feel like killing. But mostly you just kill, because to paraphrase the NBSI guys, "we play eve to pew pew, so why not pew pew?"
NRDS should always be the ideal of any state because NBSI is insular, paranoid, and unproductive. But NRDS requires a monopoly on violence, and a real ability to enforce.
Ushra Khan/Star Fraction NRDS is real, but it only applies to UK/SF.
CVA NRDS managed to make Providence NRDS, and made it apply to everyone who resided there. CVA truly managed to extend the empire. and it was an interesting and beautiful thing.
Pirates are stupid: NRDS attracts tons of casual players and small gangs. Pirates whine about wanting something to beat the blob, then mock NRDS. NRDS is what pirates thrive on because it creates an abudnance of small fun to fight targets. NBSI creates hard walls and bigger and bigger fights to defend chokepoints, which would destroy anything but a massive BLOB.
Pirates in Eve Desperately need a code of honor, and to respect NRDS for what it is, a guarantor of targets.
Pirates are good for NRDS as well. They give people who want to kill in NRDS a large supply of skilled targets to sharpen their teeth on.
I can understand so much of 0.0 being NBSI. It is new territory, constantly fought over. It has not been truly conquered yet - it has surely not been tamed.
My Best
Entrepaz
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.24 22:33:00 -
[49]
The lesson of recent experience in the real world is that you cannot create the conditions for freedom and domestic tranquility without the ability to enforce your borders. As long as people with hostile intentions are allowed to cross freely into your space and do you harm, your NRDS policy is folly. It is a law only followed by the law-abiding.
If you wish to create a zone of peace and prosperity, you must create a strong Republic, meaning a nation ruled by law and not by man. In EVE this will necessitate the formation of an alliance, or at least a blue list, and a code of laws both limited and strict. This Republic would differ from other 0.0 alliances in that (a) nothing would be required of its members, they are free, pay no tax, and may do as they please under the law; (b) all entities willing to abide by the law are allowed: even one-man corporations will be allowed to join the alliance/blue list; (c) law enforcement must be swift and terrible.
Your laws would be very few, so as to preserve the freedom of all citizens:
1. No neutrals allowed in the space.
2. No violence against blues.
3. Valuable moons will be first-come, first-served.
4. Some sort of (elected) leadership will be empowered to impose martial law in times of war to defend the space.
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "NRDS is two wolves and a lamb ratting in the same system. Liberty is an alliance of well-armed lambs defending their borders."
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Nykitah
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Posted - 2010.05.25 02:42:00 -
[50]
Joe Starbreaker, I have no idea what you're talking about but it is not EVE... not at all. It also has very little to do with NRDS.
The big turnoff about the NRDS RoE is that is actually requires effort and patience to pull off and unfortunately, 90% of the players in EVE lack both patience and the will to get off their ass. All they want to do is settle in one place, shoot everyone, realize how dumb that is, blue everything around that could possibly put up an even fight and then kill anyone weaker with their newfound "friends".
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.25 03:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nykitah
Joe Starbreaker, I have no idea what you're talking about but it is not EVE... not at all. It also has very little to do with NRDS.
NRDS doesn't work, nor should it, for it is stupid. Rule of law is a better idea to accomplish the same goal. It might be worth a try.
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mech res
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Posted - 2010.05.25 04:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aaron
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:54:08
...
NRDS is a really cool concept, ....
It over! okay?
Everybody now shootface others. Okay?
It over.
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Nykitah
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Posted - 2010.05.25 04:20:00 -
[53]
Sorry to pop your bubble but it does work and will work should once choose to put effort into making it and and have the patience to wait for it to work.
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Detvein
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:24:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Detvein on 25/05/2010 16:25:35
Edited by: Detvein on 25/05/2010 16:24:58
NRDS, let the carebears have their fun. The rest of us will just play eve, its a game not real life, even though many people (mainly in NRDS leadership) choose to ignore this fact and try to supplement their failures in real life with eve online.
All NRDS does is keep a fresh supply of carebears all grouped together for us real PvPers to kill.
So coming from a NBSI players perspective, keep NRDS alliances/coalitions alive and well.
You all fail, and I love you for it.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.25 18:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Nykitah
Sorry to pop your bubble but it does work and will work should once choose to put effort into making it and and have the patience to wait for it to work.
Let me put it this way. What is the purpose and intent of an NRDS policy?
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Beoth
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Posted - 2010.05.25 18:58:00 -
[56]
The most obvious reasons are making isk off 0.0 markets and having a lot of "freindlies" around means you can have somewhat of a buffer to prevent invasions, ect..... didn't really work for CVA though.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:25:00 -
[57]
In other words, you want a bustling economy, and you want someone else to do the fighting to protect you. You're a free-rider, and you represent one of the problems with NRDS.
I was really asking, what is the purpose and intent of an NRDS policy (for the host like CVA)? My belief is that what they wanted was an area of tranquility and prosperity to be enjoyed by whatever good people wish to dwell there. NRDS does not lead to this result, for two reasons: (1) free riders, and (2) unrestricted access by enemies.
The core problem is making sure that the people in your sphere are "good people" who support your project, rather than exploiting or undermining it. In the real world we do this by making sure the people who dwell within a republic adhere to the basic "contract" of expectations -- i.e. adherence to the laws. You need to create a set of laws for the space such that it incentivizes the right kind of people to move there, and you need to enforce it by empowering your residents to fight off neutral invaders.
The scheme I suggest would be like NRDS in the respect that anyone who chooses to participate would be allowed to use the space, and you wouldn't be dictatorial, but it would be like NBSI in that you would strictly defend the space from neutrals who have not signed on to your system of law.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:37:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical
I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?
Are them prosecuted? Or can they do what they want in such Alliance's territory like it's their own territory?
If they are not prosecuted, I think being NRDS is useless over there, no "bear" will accept to risk exactly like if they lived in NPC 0.0, where only friends are corpies and no defense is done.
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Von Kroll
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:10:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical
I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?
Are them prosecuted? Or can they do what they want in such Alliance's territory like it's their own territory?
If they are not prosecuted, I think being NRDS is useless over there, no "bear" will accept to risk exactly like if they lived in NPC 0.0, where only friends are corpies and no defense is done.
I'm curious as to a system where a third party can kill a happily carebearing guy in SF or UK space before SF or UK kills them first. Old habits will die hard.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:43:00 -
[60]
There are those what want to build a civilization and believes in progress via cooperation and hard honest work.
And there are those who just want to blow things up and who dont care about much else than success for their own group.
(But usually they wont admit it, and instead laugh alot and are experts in making insults and trash others posts, especially if these posts have some decent content.)
And in most cases the first is NRDS and the latter is NBSI. It's just a matter of listening to your conscience or not.
If you really want to be part of something great, do the right thing and join the fight for NRDS today!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:58:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 26/05/2010 12:59:36
I missed this one the first time:
Quote:
Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical
Wut? You invaded providence and napped half of the nbsi alliances in eve because providence holders did nrds "wrong". You say space is free, yet you are napped with only nbsi entities who obviously have different ideas.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:30:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 26/05/2010 13:30:11
Originally by: Nykitah
The big turnoff about the NRDS RoE is that is actually requires effort and patience to pull off and unfortunately, 90% of the players in EVE lack both patience and the will to get off their ***. All they want to do is settle in one place, shoot everyone, realize how dumb that is, blue everything around that could possibly put up an even fight and then kill anyone weaker with their newfound "friends".
Probably one of the more accurate descriptions of NBSI I've seen so far. However, I disagree that the "effort and patience" part of NRDS is a turn-off. It is greatly rewarding, in the same manner as after having worked hard for a full day can stand back and enjoy the sights of a job-well-done. It's what makes us be able to properly sleep at night.
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Coyote Guyver
Minmatar
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:37:00 -
[63]
NRDS Is nice. It just means more people for me to vehemently slaughter and murder and pillage and ****.
You know my only problem with people who want NRDS? The vast majority of them are so ****ing smug. Ever seen that episode of south park where they all buy hybrids? Yeah. Thats you. Congrats on upholding real life 'morals' and not being a pirate, in a video game. If thats your thing, fine. But seriously, do your thing and shut the hell up about it. Noone truly cares what you do as long as we can shoot you, and you don't ***** on the forums about it.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:53:00 -
[64]
NBSI is not nice. It just means more people that slaughter and murder and pillage and ****.
You know my only problem with people who want NBSI? The vase majority of them are so ******* smug. Ever seen that film called "Psycho" were there is this guy running around with an axe and kills people for no reason? Yeah. That's you. Congrats on stomping on real life 'morals' and being a pirate in a video game. If that's your thing, fine. But seriously, do your thing and shut the **** up about it. Noone truly cares what you do as long as we can shoot you, and you don't ***** on the forums about it.
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Coyote Guyver
Minmatar
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:03:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Codo Yagari
NBSI is not nice. It just means more people that slaughter and murder and pillage and ****.
You know my only problem with people who want NBSI? The vase majority of them are so ******* smug. Ever seen that film called "Psycho" were there is this guy running around with an axe and kills people for no reason? Yeah. That's you. Congrats on stomping on real life 'morals' and being a pirate in a video game. If that's your thing, fine. But seriously, do your thing and shut the **** up about it. Noone truly cares what you do as long as we can shoot you, and you don't ***** on the forums about it.
So hows Call Of Duty going for you bro? Do you like to just stick to not shooting the enemy and hiding or what?
How about WoW? Those orcs sure are innocent, huh. Killing them would be so immoral!
Lets go back a few years. What did those falling blocks ever to do you to make them stack up next to eachother and get exploded? How wrong!
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Nightshade Mary
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:08:00 -
[66]
Why do people think that NRDS would make space safe?
NRDS doesn't mean that the local authority is going to hold your hand whilst you cross the road. All it means that as long as you are not red to the local authority, the local authority will not initiate hostilities towards you.
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I love the smell of napalm in the morning. |
Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:10:00 -
[67]
I wrote:
"Noone truly cares what you do as long as we can shoot you, and you don't ***** on the forums about it."
What makes you think I am a pacifist? No, as long as just one single pirate remains the light of the fire of just wrath will shine in my eyes, and grasped by the joy of battle I will sing out aloud: DEATH TO THE TYRANTS! DEATH TO THE MURDERERS OF NEW EDEN!
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Coyote Guyver
Minmatar
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:29:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Codo Yagari
I wrote:
"Noone truly cares what you do as long as we can shoot you, and you don't ***** on the forums about it."
What makes you think I am a pacifist? No, as long as just one single pirate remains the light of the fire of just wrath will shine in my eyes, and grasped by the joy of battle I will sing out aloud: DEATH TO THE TYRANTS! DEATH TO THE MURDERERS OF NEW EDEN!
So seeing other peoples space pixels blown up by some serious business internet spaceships makes you mad? Their hard earned pixels that they work for (WORK for in a VIDEO GAME) get esploded and you go raging off to try and destroy their space pixels? If you don't want these 'innocents' to die, maybe you should consider what your revenge will mean to the 'murderers'.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:44:00 -
[69]
Cannot a pixel be compared to an atom?
You would do good in remembering that in EVE you're still playing against other real humans.
When you blow up the things they invest time, energy and love to build up, it hurts just as much as it would if you blew up something they built in the real world.
In EVE you have the option to do good or bad, just as in real life.
What makes you so angry when someone talks against bad stuff in New Eden?
If logic applied, shouldnt you become angry when someone does that bad stuff?
Try to see this from a logical and sensible perspective, and you might see that I'm right.
I just think that you've lived for a long time with a misconception which says that in New Eden it is OK to be a complete moron.
Well, it's not OK.
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Coyote Guyver
Minmatar
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:44:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Coyote Guyver on 26/05/2010 16:44:07
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Cannot a pixel be compared to an atom?
You would do good in remembering that in EVE you're still playing against other real humans.
When you blow up the things they invest time, energy and love to build up, it hurts just as much as it would if you blew up something they built in the real world.
In EVE you have the option to do good or bad, just as in real life.
What makes you so angry when someone talks against bad stuff in New Eden?
If logic applied, shouldnt you become angry when someone does that bad stuff?
Try to see this from a logical and sensible perspective, and you might see that I'm right.
I just think that you've lived for a long time with a misconception which says that in New Eden it is OK to be a complete moron.
Well, it's not OK.
I started this game out believing in NRDS in an NRDS corp in an NRDS alliance in an NRDS 0.0 region.
When I make my Isk, I trade and contract trade for FUN. The isk is a byproduct that allows me to have more FUN by blowing things up/getting blown up. I invested 'energy' to have 'fun'. My 'energy' did 'work' to create 'pleasure'. Thats what a game is. I don't care if you kill my little spaceship on my computer screen. Neither should you. If you view this game as taking work to achieve something, please, go outside. If you like to roleplay someone good and loving, cool. That doesn't mean you have to be completely ignorant of what you're doing and why it is stupid.
Also, cool ad hominem attacks bro.
Edit: Yes, a pixel can be COMPARED to an atom. It is NOT an atom.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Von Kroll
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical
I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?
I'm curious as to a system where a third party can kill a happily carebearing guy in SF or UK space before SF or UK kills them first. Old habits will die hard.
The question posits that the "third party" is also "not red". |
Coyote Guyver
Minmatar
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Von Kroll
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical
I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?
I'm curious as to a system where a third party can kill a happily carebearing guy in SF or UK space before SF or UK kills them first. Old habits will die hard.
The question posits that the "third party" is also "not red".
When I was in Ushra'Khan we were explicitly not allowed to shoot any neutrals anywhere but Providence and Catch. It didn't happen, and you got chewed to hell if anything showed up on the KB about it. I can't speak for how things are now or how they ever were in Star Fraction, but I do know that much. I also remember being shot while in providence as a neutral on a gate by a CVA/PXF fleet. I was in a Hyena iirc |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.26 23:57:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 26/05/2010 23:58:38
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?
Its a deceptively simple point. But in practise quite complicated and the obvious question you have to ask is what is the relationship between the guy carebearing and the guy that kills him? Sure it might be the case that the ratter is in an innocent corp that never aggressed anybody anywhere and is being killed by a roving aggressor corp for no other reason than they like to kill things. Sure, that happens. But what if the carebear is in a corp that has roving aggressor players of their own and they've blown up the 3rd parties at some point in the past and this is now valid payback? How do we know? How does anyone know without having access to the standings logs of those entities?
Quote:
Are them prosecuted? Or can they do what they want in such Alliance's territory like it's their own territory?
"Prosecution" in 0.0 space really means being shot on sight and denied access to outposts. Now if its a case of neutral on neutral aggression the Star Fraction don't get involved. The reason is because we simply don't know the history between the entities involved and we don't break our neutrality unless one side shoots at us. Now that may sound harsh and uncaring but in the long run think it through. Whichever side is genuinely interested in coexisting and just ratting or using the space without shooting other people will remain neutral with access to our station and not become targets of the fraction. While a genuinely aggressive raider force will shoot us too and consequently get set red and denied docking. In the end actions will create consequence and the side interested in good relations with us will get favourable treatment.
Quote:
If they are not prosecuted, I think being NRDS is useless over there, no "bear" will accept to risk exactly like if they lived in NPC 0.0, where only friends are corpies and no defense is done.
Well this is a big reason why we (in SF) think that no "bear" who is senseless of their own defense really has a place out in 0.0. People need to take responsibility for their own protection, be prepared to fight back against oppressors and generally make it hard for people to blow them up. And we can help in some ways, hell we put 25billion isk down on a system with super low tariffs and a zero docking fee to encourage honest players to utilize the place. We seed the market with pvp ships, we deny docking to bad people, we allow neutrals to put up POS and utilize any of the ratting and mining assets they want to play with. All for free.
And because we're not charging a bean we don't feel obligated to provide a police force. Its a proposition with plenty of risk yes, but people can opt in or out at their own choice.
Ultimately I'd love to see our station in YWSO-Z filled with adventurous ratters and industrialists making a living from the fat rats and mining of the system and being prepared to fleet up in defense flocks of pvp ships when they see danger coming to the system and when that danger is from people who are red to the fraction we'll be shooting them too. But its about freedom at the end of the day, freedom to make your own choices, take your own risks, and take responsibility for your own protection.
We've made facilities available to neutrals with no onerous rules and regulations or "rent" or "slave contracts" of the kind CVA demanded. Its a take it or leave it deal.
But please don't insult us by claiming we're being unfair in making 25b isk investment available to free trade and access with zero strings attached just because we won't fight for you against other neutrals. Thats just silly.
The Star Fraction Freeport TAZ Norlonto in YWS0-Z System.
Chatsubo RP Discussion
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Nykitah
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:57:00 -
[74]
While Star Fraction and Republic Alliance have been friends for a good amount of time as they share our ideals of NRDS but it would seem there are a few strong differences between us û that is to be expected since while we may be friends, we are two different entities with two very different home regions.
Our belief of NRDS is that space is free for everyone to use and co-exist without aggression yet we are not stupid to ignore reality û as long as there are peaceful pilots wanting to co-exist together, there will be others that will want to do nothing but ruin the peace and attempt to **** **** up. That is why we police our space and set down ground rules for any neutral party that enters, giving everyone the same rules to follow so that no one party can subvert our efforts but merely not aggressing our pilots while attacking everyone else in the area.
Neutrals attacking neutrals is a tricky situation û neutral pilots or gangs coming down our region to gank others is obvious, keeping track of the activity of our residents is also important since having groups that move down here only to use our benevolence as a safe-haven for them to rest before going out to other regions for ganks is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, the SF pilots have respected us and we will continue to respect them.
Besides, all the cool Alliances donÆt have mile-long blue lists.
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Disastro
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Posted - 2010.05.30 11:23:00 -
[75]
I think the original poster isn't confused at all. We all know exactly who he is. He is a carebear who belongs in high sec and not in 0.0.
NRDS is for carebears who don't belong in 0.0. Fortunately CVA isnt any more.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.05.30 21:23:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Disastro
I think the original poster isn't confused at all. We all know exactly who he is. He is a carebear who belongs in high sec and not in 0.0.
NRDS is for carebears who don't belong in 0.0. Fortunately CVA isnt any more.
Would you please take that argument to C&P forums where they constantly complain about people not leaving high sec?
What Aaron is pushing, love it or hate it, and the NRDS concept in general, is one way to get people out of high sec. Even with an active NRDS policy in a system, there is still a lot of room for error on the pilots part, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The end result is more PVP opportunity for both parties and a good time is had by all.
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Eternum Praetorian
Method In Khaos
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Posted - 2010.05.31 00:57:00 -
[77]
Seriously . . .
No freakin idea who you are and and your alliance holds no sov and no outposts. Keep dreaming though
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Pesht
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Posted - 2010.05.31 18:44:00 -
[78]
It's amusing that NBSI alliances believe they can keep people out of their space. Covops can get in, and now with T3 cruisers immune to warp bubbles, it's impossible to keep people out, even with massive gate camps. Other people will always be able to get intel on an alliance's operations, using the denial of scouting as an excuse for NBSI is moronic.
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