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[UNITY] Fate of Traitors

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Ugleb Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.04 19:59:00 - [1] A long standing promise has been fulfilled in law as well as in deed. The name of the Sylph Alliance has been struck from the rosters of CONCORD. The traitors are at last no more. Three years ago the Sylph Alliance chose to align itself with the Amarrian pro-slaver alliance that is the CVA, and their vision of 'Operation Deliverance'. It was as we fought besieged in the battle for Unity Station that Sylph moved from their position of political neutrality to join forces with the rising power of Amarrian Providence, and so cement their claim to the spoils of war. It with that act of treachery that we swore to see Sylph destroyed utterly. Some months ago, following a sustained offensive against Sylph pilots and assets, and the crumbling of their leadership that Sylph practically became a defunct political entity and ceased to operate. But today, we mark the final nail as it is driven into the coffin of Sylph's existence. As of now Sylph meets its destiny as nothing more than a fading memory. Remember them as this; a warning against the hubris and self-interest of man. Although the supporter of slavery might profit for a time, in the end he invites the heavy sword of justice to descend upon him. Today Providence stands liberated. The slavers have been cast out of their halls and those who supported them are failing. One remains, all others have faltered. All that remains of their plans now are the ashes of empires built on the backs of the subjugated. We go on to build a future where their names are nought but a fading memory. The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.05.04 22:15:00 - [2] Originally by: Ugleb we swore to see Sylph destroyed utterly. Warriors who keep their word. I salute you.
D melanogaster Minmatar The Fruit Flys	Posted - 2010.05.04 22:29:00 - [3] They were just awful. I'm sure that everyone appreciates the work you put in to see them fail.
Lyris Nairn Caldari Hashimoto Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.04 22:51:00 - [4] What exactly did Sylph Alliance betray? In no way do I mean to deflate your victory, but is the situation truly as you imply it to be? One cannot have treachery without the violation of some agreement. If that entity made no oath or promise to you or those you represent (i.e., neutrality as opposed to a NAP), then there exists no basis for you to call it or its members traitorous. Was there some such agreement?
Aphoxema G DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.04 23:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Lyris Nairn What exactly did Sylph Alliance betray? In no way do I mean to deflate your victory, but is the situation truly as you imply it to be? One cannot have treachery without the violation of some agreement. If that entity made no oath or promise to you or those you represent (i.e., neutrality as opposed to a NAP), then there exists no basis for you to call it or its members traitorous. Was there some such agreement? I believe the implication was that they betrayed Humanity. ------------------------------- The fox chases for her meal, but the rabbit runs for her life.
Kor Shivat Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.05 04:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Aphoxema G I believe the implication was that they betrayed Humanity. Humanity betrayed... I think I have that axe grinding away somewhere; quite something in its day, now where did I leave it?
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.05 05:17:00 - [7] Don't try to claim credit for suicide.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.05 07:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Grr Don't try to claim credit for suicide. You mean "assisted suicide"? _______________________ We come for our people!
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.05 10:34:00 - [9] Any words on the traitors that left CVA and/or holders for UK? Or are those not considered traitors? Are one man's traitors simply another man's converts and newfound allies? I would urge you to remember this, as a warning against the hubris and self-interest of man. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.05.05 10:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Kazzzi Originally by: Ugleb we swore to see Sylph destroyed utterly. Warriors who keep their word. I salute you. Oh, the irony... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rorin Cutter Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.05 12:58:00 - [11] There is, as Rodj Blake and Lady Grr have both pointed out much Irony here. And even more ôhubrisö. The truth is simply Providence is not liberated, and many hundreds of thousands of slaves and holders have died to protect there space and systems over the years. Fighting valiantly against bloody terrorists, as well as your pirating friends. And still despite this, and because of your coalition, Providence just burns. Not even the leftover, cold ashes are yet liberated as you claim, as this can only happen when each and every person has accepted god as his or her master and saviour. Make no mistake; the barbarian hoards called the ôSouthern Coalitionö will go down in history as just that, a hoard. And we will of course regain for the Empire what we have worked so hard to create. We are the sword of the righteous, and we will never be silenced, or go into that long, dark night quietly. With gods help and guidence we will prevail. Amarr Victor! -Rorin
Ugleb Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.05 15:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Lyris Nairn What exactly did Sylph Alliance betray? In no way do I mean to deflate your victory, but is the situation truly as you imply it to be? One cannot have treachery without the violation of some agreement. If that entity made no oath or promise to you or those you represent (i.e., neutrality as opposed to a NAP), then there exists no basis for you to call it or its members traitorous. Was there some such agreement? In the days when the Ushra'Khan held 'northern' Providence and CVA the south, Sylph sat as neutrals in between the two. We did not force them to choose a side in the conflict and respected that position. It lasted for some time, and the key to it was that we chose to respect their right to manage their on standings list without interference from us. But when the conflict turned into a fully engaged sov-war and it became clear that the CVA and their allies held the upper hand, Sylph chose to abandon neutrality and join the assault against us. That is why we have long considered them to be traitors, on a distinctly personal level. They could have simply maintained their position of neutrality and watched us by driven out, instead they moved into full allegiance with our enemy to better position themselves politically for the aftermath. The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation
Lyris Nairn Caldari Hashimoto Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.05 17:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Lyris Nairn on 05/05/2010 17:45:05 Originally by: Ugleb Originally by: Lyris Nairn What exactly did Sylph Alliance betray? In no way do I mean to deflate your victory, but is the situation truly as you imply it to be? One cannot have treachery without the violation of some agreement. If that entity made no oath or promise to you or those you represent (i.e., neutrality as opposed to a NAP), then there exists no basis for you to call it or its members traitorous. Was there some such agreement? In the days when the Ushra'Khan held 'northern' Providence and CVA the south, Sylph sat as neutrals in between the two. We did not force them to choose a side in the conflict and respected that position. It lasted for some time, and the key to it was that we chose to respect their right to manage their on standings list without interference from us. But when the conflict turned into a fully engaged sov-war and it became clear that the CVA and their allies held the upper hand, Sylph chose to abandon neutrality and join the assault against us. That is why we have long considered them to be traitors, on a distinctly personal level. They could have simply maintained their position of neutrality and watched us by driven out, instead they moved into full allegiance with our enemy to better position themselves politically for the aftermath. I presently hold no opinion on who should be the next President of the Gallente Federation. If in the future I were to decide that Candidate X should be the next President, then would I be considered a traitor to Candidate Y under your logic? It seems to me from your telling of history that the Sylph Alliance never claimed allegiance or friendship to your organization, and so did not "betray" it when they chose to take a side any more than they would have "betrayed" CVA had they chosen to side with your organization at the time. Picking a side, from a previous state of indifference, is not betrayal. I suggest you change your announcement's title to read: "The Fate of Those Who Disagree With Us" or "The Fate of Those Who Defy Our Will".
Nick Bete	Posted - 2010.05.05 17:50:00 - [14] I'm a longtime follower of the IGS, but have not felt compelled to post until now. Just wanted to express a quick opinion. One man's treachery is another's strategically motivated self-interest. Words, Captain Ugleb. Just words. But, as history is written by the victorious, it's your right to define those words as you see fit. Congratulations on your victory. Honestly, I expected more from U'K than the sort of self-serving rhetoric I've seen from your pilots since the repelling of Operation Deliverance. Where once there were proud men and women fighting for a noble cause there is now just another bunch of bragging space holders of the sort who populate the CAOD net. Sad really. Well, one era ends and another begins.
Xyla Vulchanus Amarr Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.05 19:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Grr Don't try to claim credit for suicide. No-one is trying to take credit for "Operation Deliverance"! We Come For Our People (and your systems)
Kor Shivat Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.05 19:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Lyris Nairn Picking a side, from a previous state of indifference, is not betrayal. I suggest you change your announcement's title to read: "The Fate of Those Who Disagree With Us" or "The Fate of Those Who Defy Our Will". I'm partial to the further above suggested "Fate of Those Who Betray Humanity," as it is grandly presumptuous, which seems rather the whole point. However, "Fate of Those Who Defy Our Will" is certainly a more accurate characterization... though my limited understanding of how this all went down is that it would most accurately be "Fate of Those Who Defy That Particularly Large Alliance Over There."
Kirra Liu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2010.05.05 21:07:00 - [17] Years pass yet the same lies are used again and again regarding Sylph picking sides against the Ushra'Khan. And as for Sylphs destruction, I believe that was down to internal factors rather than external factors such as yourselves. One of the major problems I kept seeing cropping up time and time again was bickering between members inside of the alliance. Obviously Ushra'Khans actions within Sylph space was a contributory factor to some of the bickering but in all fairness, it was a very small part. Some good corporations and people left Sylph, not because of Ushra'Khan but because of differences with others, being sick to death of the NRDS policy or other factors. In the end though Sylph died when the last of the key folks left, leadership was then by my knowledge decided by the members who were left and sadly for them they chose an incapable leadership who I don't believe could have stressfully run a large Empire alliance never-mind an alliance in null-sec space. Don't get me wrong, I am glad the control of Providence has changed hands and I congratulate Ushra'Khan and the others who have changed the face of the Providence area but I only give credit where it's due.
Maggot Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.05 23:14:00 - [18] This message is nothing about credit. It is about celebration. Celebration of the demise of a pus filled institution. This day was a long time coming and every step of the way was trod by Sylph themselves. From a family ripped apart by slavery I understand hatred. But never in my days have I dispised any organisation such as this. Imagine your neighbour, you have the occasional friendly word. One day he sees the local hoodlums beating you in the street. He could walk away, he could stop the fight or alternatively he could stick the knife in as he likes the look of your garden for himself. Utter scum. I have far more respect for the zealots of CVA than I will ever have for the poisoned clones of Sylph. This is one of the finest days, and for all those who played a part, I salute you. Maggot.
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.06 07:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Maggot Imagine your neighbour, you have the occasional friendly word. One day he sees the local hoodlums beating you in the street. He could walk away, he could stop the fight or alternatively he could stick the knife in as he likes the look of your garden for himself. I nice methaphor. You so see that the UK are the hoodlums though? The CVA were more akin to police officers, while the UK terrorists were more akin to hoodlums. Maybe you don't want to police officer always looking if you are still a law-abiding citizen, but it sure beats living next door to a hoodlum. Yes, I can understand the hoodlum feeling betrayed by his neighbour ratting to the police, and the hoodlum's desire for revenge. Trying to paint it as justified or noble, trying to paint your neighbour as immoral, that is going a bit far coming from a band of hoodlums. The friendly but stern police officers of Providence are gone and gangs of hoodlums roam the neigbourhood, shooting at each other as well as the random passersby. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.06 10:27:00 - [20] Thats a stretch Merd, even for you. Did you even read what you quoted there? -------------------------------------------- SF Recruiting
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.06 13:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Merdaneth on 06/05/2010 13:19:18 Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Thats a stretch Merd, even for you. Did you even read what you quoted there? I most certainly did. The example suggested two neighbours fighting each other up for a reason that didn't directly concern a third party. The fact that one party was called 'hoodlum' and the other party portrayed as an 'innocent victim' is a false portrayal. If the third party would see it that way, the third party would not be neutral, he would already favor one side. Usage of the term 'hoodlum' is perfectly understandble from UK's perspective, but is not from a neutral third party perspective. It is merely an attempt to skew the metaphor. As for my further comparison, Ushra Khan's continued use of NBSI classifies them more as street hoodlums beating up people for fun, while CVA's continued adherence to NRDS and its willingness to police and enforce their policies, would put make them resemble a police officer more. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Dame Death Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.06 16:15:00 - [22] Originally by: Merdaneth Edited by: Merdaneth on 06/05/2010 13:19:18 Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Thats a stretch Merd, even for you. Did you even read what you quoted there? I most certainly did. The example suggested two neighbours fighting each other up for a reason that didn't directly concern a third party. The fact that one party was called 'hoodlum' and the other party portrayed as an 'innocent victim' is a false portrayal. If the third party would see it that way, the third party would not be neutral, he would already favor one side. Usage of the term 'hoodlum' is perfectly understandble from UK's perspective, but is not from a neutral third party perspective. It is merely an attempt to skew the metaphor. As for my further comparison, Ushra Khan's continued use of NBSI classifies them more as street hoodlums beating up people for fun, while CVA's continued adherence to NRDS and its willingness to police and enforce their policies, would put make them resemble a police officer more. I always saw CVA as the school yard bully with their "Do as we say or we beat you up" RoE Logs of a Brutor
ANDYB1972 Amarr atrum ones	Posted - 2010.05.06 21:30:00 - [23] LMAO have uk become blinded by there own lies that the truth is now clouded. MAGGOT you talk of sylph being s**and how we watched you get beat by cva and then turned on uk, you talk of nieghbours yes we were nieghbours and friends, we didnt stab uk in the back you let your backward cousin's come and stay and aloud them to ** on our flower beds and steal our lawn mower, and when we chased them back over the fence to tell them off you got upset. now how do i know this? simple because it was me back in my sylph days that came to 9uy to claim back my lawn mower from a certain mr davik kurchek and that sparked the whole thing hi to one and all
Kor Shivat Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Merdaneth Edited by: Merdaneth on 06/05/2010 13:19:18 The example suggested two neighbours fighting each other up for a reason that didn't directly concern a third party. The fact that one party was called 'hoodlum' and the other party portrayed as an 'innocent victim' is a false portrayal. If the third party would see it that way, the third party would not be neutral, he would already favor one side. Usage of the term 'hoodlum' is perfectly understandble from UK's perspective, but is not from a neutral third party perspective. It is merely an attempt to skew the metaphor. I have a holo reel around here somewhere, yes, yes... the Rashomon Effect! Well played.
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Dame Death I always saw CVA as the school yard bully with their "Do as we say or we beat you up" RoE Except when you were working for the Amarrians, right? -----
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:29:00 - [26] Sylph died when Drakmor handed over the reigns to the alliance. ---
Lyris Nairn Caldari Hashimoto Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.06 23:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Suitonia Sylph died when Drakmor handed over the reigns to the alliance. Hydra Reloaded died when Joe Phoenix absconded with the Capital fleet. :(
Dame Death Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.07 14:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Andreus LeHane Originally by: Dame Death I always saw CVA as the school yard bully with their "Do as we say or we beat you up" RoE Except when you were working for the Amarrians, right? Eliz sighs Someone always brings that up. And no even then I saw them as bullys yet annother reason I'm glad thats behind me. Logs of a Brutor
Codo Yagari Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.07 14:41:00 - [29] Assuming Ushra'Khan will now return to a full state of NRDS? You can call yourself as honourable as you wish, but the fact of the matter is that your history of practising NBSI has given you an ugly stain that those with proper eyes can clearly see. Time to become civil? --- Empress Jamyl I
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.05.07 14:54:00 - [30] Because God loved NRDS so much that He so commanded the Empire and CVA to practice NRDS... oh wait, the Amarr Empire isn't NRDS, ask any Jovian. Anyways, back on topic, we're supposed to be celebrating the death of Sylph.

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