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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2005.03.16 13:23:00 -
[271]
reviving this thread as we now have a new Dev blog AND STILL NO NEW TAX
last I heard (second hand source granted) was that the next patch (after they where done fixing bugs) would be the one where they would be working on the corp tax
what do we get more agent missions (glad to see them)
stealht bombers (who cares)
new world order (would rather have the old world order (ega taxes) working)
consensual wars (yeah I agree that one is as importient as the taxes)
more lab slots (that will be insanely expensive (although those are neded))
again no corp taxes
come on pls Oveur we got 11 pages here with onle 2 ppl saying they dont want taxes (and my personal opinion is thay dont understand what corp tax is all about)
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Jack Blank
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Posted - 2005.03.16 13:25:00 -
[272]
do the devs even listen to these posts? my guess is no. 
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Amaron Ghant
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Posted - 2005.03.16 13:47:00 -
[273]
Pointless post.
No comments from devs about corp tax ever == devs don't want to implement something they promised, and are hoping the "problem" goes away.
I want corp tax in as promised but tbh I don't see it happening.
Just another broken promise from CCP is all
You know what would make me happy?, apart from blondes, money (normally mutually exclusive) and long life? A comment from the devs saying either "ok our bad, we are working on it" or "stfu it's not going to happen cos it's too hard". Either or, i'm not fussy; just so long as I know where CCP stand on the corp tax question.
Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!!
Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner |
Novarei
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Posted - 2005.03.16 14:54:00 -
[274]
I will cry until the day corp tax is implemented.
+--------------------------------------------+
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Serilla
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Posted - 2005.03.16 17:45:00 -
[275]
well its not mentioned in the patch that will be 3 weeks to 2 months from now...
so at the very very very earliest it will maek the patch after that...
six months from now........
I remember them saying this should be easy to implement and they would wait untill exodus to release it.
Ever since ive played it has been like this.
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Dasher Prime
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Posted - 2005.03.16 19:01:00 -
[276]
The corp I belong to makes 70million a week off of the pos we set up. We dont mine for the ice, we buy everything we need for it off the market.
So if we were larger, and had dedicated ice miners, yeah I think 100+ million a week profit is doable. But we dont rely just on the POS for money, we 0.0 hunt, some manufacturing, very little mining, and loot sales supply most of the corps funds.
So taxes from corp members would not be good. Counter productive, and harm the corp morale more then anything else.
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2005.03.16 19:10:00 -
[277]
 Originally by: Dasher Prime
The corp I belong to makes 70million a week off of the pos we set up. We dont mine for the ice, we buy everything we need for it off the market.
So if we were larger, and had dedicated ice miners, yeah I think 100+ million a week profit is doable. But we dont rely just on the POS for money, we 0.0 hunt, some manufacturing, very little mining, and loot sales supply most of the corps funds.
So taxes from corp members would not be good. Counter productive, and harm the corp morale more then anything else.
well thats very simple all your CEO would have to do is set the corp tax for 0.0%
why would that bother anyone
the corp tax that we want is ajusteble from 0.0% to 100.0% if you are in a corp that have high tax you are free to leave but ultimatly the Tax will be up to the CEO of your corp and the Aliance (if such a thing as aliance tax comes in with the corp tax)
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Ethan Kel
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Posted - 2005.03.16 19:36:00 -
[278]
Corporate Tax System
Almost 6 months ago the Exodus patch was supposed to include an auto tax paid back to the corporation on all market transactions of corpies within their corporation.
CEO's were to be able to create a market transaction tax of 1%, 2% 3% etc. These transactions included anything regarding a transaction of buying and selling on the market. This tax percentage would have been auto deducted from the corp. member who initiated the transaction then paid back to the corp. they belong to.
While we do have the ability to create the tax it does not work. It does not take a financial genius to see just how much we as corporations have lost not only in not being able to benefit from this tax within our corporations but the looses paid to the CCP tax..
Even the individual player looses in the current system. I think any one reading this would rather their tax go back to their corporation than no where.
Any one can plainly see just how much we as corporations and individuals have lost.
Many of us as individual players and CEOĘs are tired of the financial drain both by over sights of corpies forgetting to pay and a tax system which profits no one and causes an imbalance in an already over stressed economy.
Throughout history ALL governments have existed on systems of taxations. Tax systems are a fundamental building block of any successful economy. To deny one here is to condemn the world of eve to economic depressions and inflations and many more to financial ruin .
Yes all the new bells and whistles are great but lets fix some of the ones that need to be fixed first.
The Corporate tax system needs to be implemented. If you cant or wonĘt get it to work for player corporations then stop all the taxes now.!
It is pointless to have a tax system pay an invisible non relevant entity - CCP - into a vast pool of nothingness that benefits no one and undermines the efforts of CEOs to try to run their corps on a merit basis because the Corp tax doesn't work.
If we are truly emulating real life then it is only fair to assume a two sided tax system.
Please CCP help us help you for all of us.
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2005.03.16 20:05:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Ethan Kel
Corporate Tax System
Almost 6 months ago the Exodus patch was supposed to include an auto tax paid back to the corporation on all market transactions of corpies within their corporation.
CEO's were to be able to create a market transaction tax of 1%, 2% 3% etc. These transactions included anything regarding a transaction of buying and selling on the market. This tax percentage would have been auto deducted from the corp. member who initiated the transaction then paid back to the corp. they belong to.
While we do have the ability to create the tax it does not work. It does not take a financial genius to see just how much we as corporations have lost not only in not being able to benefit from this tax within our corporations but the looses paid to the CCP tax..
Even the individual player looses in the current system. I think any one reading this would rather their tax go back to their corporation than no where.
Any one can plainly see just how much we as corporations and individuals have lost.
Many of us as individual players and CEOĘs are tired of the financial drain both by over sights of corpies forgetting to pay and a tax system which profits no one and causes an imbalance in an already over stressed economy.
Throughout history ALL governments have existed on systems of taxations. Tax systems are a fundamental building block of any successful economy. To deny one here is to condemn the world of eve to economic depressions and inflations and many more to financial ruin .
Yes all the new bells and whistles are great but lets fix some of the ones that need to be fixed first.
The Corporate tax system needs to be implemented. If you cant or wonĘt get it to work for player corporations then stop all the taxes now.!
It is pointless to have a tax system pay an invisible non relevant entity - CCP - into a vast pool of nothingness that benefits no one and undermines the efforts of CEOs to try to run their corps on a merit basis because the Corp tax doesn't work.
If we are truly emulating real life then it is only fair to assume a two sided tax system.
Please CCP help us help you for all of us.
one comment though
the corp Tax will be in Addition to the SCC fees (transaction tax) and that Tax does not go nowhere as you say  it actuelly goes to getting some ISK back out of the game (and I for one thinks it needs to be higher than it is but thats off subject) also it supposely finance the NPC buy orders
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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ZarnieWoop
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Posted - 2005.03.17 09:42:00 -
[280]
 we realy need tax in game to run allaince and corp business succesfully ... come on ccp
I suggest we should all petition 'other' that usualy gets ther attention
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L'Kor
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Posted - 2005.03.17 15:23:00 -
[281]
I totally support the idea of a working corporation tax system. Life would be much easier with it and everyone will donate as much isk to the corp as he/she can afford (if the tax rate is set to a reasonable limit). Actions on the market are taxed without any gain for the people's corporation. The possibility for players to tax other players (corp tax) would be greatly appreciated.
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Rira Vanga
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Posted - 2005.03.17 15:34:00 -
[282]
Our corporation is in EVE from Beta.
All our members agree that we need corp tax for our future.
In this moment we cannot control any income.
Please give us Taxes :)
Member of NORAD / PVP DB
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.03.17 15:38:00 -
[283]
You have to wonder why corp tax has not been implimented.
A taxation system transfering a % of your money from sales already exists, as to does the ability to transfer money from your personal wallet to the corp wallet, so the further work to impliment an automated system that calculates a % of your income and then automatically transfers it to the corp wallet should not be that great.
There must be SOME reason why it has not been implemented yet..i just wish CCP would fill us in on why .
The only thing that i can think of is that CCP is still struggling with providing corps multiple accounts and that they want to tie the taxation system in with this, so they are holding up the latter untill the former is finished and polished.
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Iaukea Asarnil
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Posted - 2005.03.17 16:53:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
No comments from devs about corp tax ever == devs don't want to implement something they promised, and are hoping the "problem" goes away. I want corp tax in as promised but tbh I don't see it happening.
What, like comet mining, gas clouds, consensual war, Interbus, system-wide belts... (I will mention all of these as often as I can until the devs get so sick of it, they include them just to shut me up).
Quote:
You know what would make me happy?, apart from blondes, money (normally mutually exclusive) and long life? A comment from the devs saying either "ok our bad, we are working on it" or "stfu it's not going to happen cos it's too hard". Either or, i'm not fussy; just so long as I know where CCP stand on the corp tax question.
Exactly. Just either "whoops, this is taking longer than we thought, new ETA is..." or "it's not working, forget it" but as it is, the devs reaction to us verges on benign contempt and they seem PROUD of their inability to deliver what was promised (they market a ******* T-Shirt about it FFS!).
_____________________________________________
The most pessimistic sod in Eve, and proud of it
The end of the universe....coming SOON[tm]
Beware of geeks bearing gifs |
Sandra IV
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Posted - 2005.03.17 17:22:00 -
[285]
ahh yeas CCP fix the CORP taxes before you go home tonight or we send a patrul to your home and our boys are nasty and live in the same town as you lads..
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2005.03.18 03:00:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Sandra IV
ahh yeas CCP fix the CORP taxes before you go home tonight or we send a patrul to your home and our boys are nasty and live in the same town as you lads..
LOL
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.03.19 04:02:00 -
[287]
corp tax is a simple way to automate an income for the corporation. manual trades & donations takes up valuable playing time. If a corp overtaxes, it'll lose people. But a small tax, even a 1% tax could go a long way to providing some finances & freeing up playing time for the leadership of a corp.
If you don't like it you wouldn't have to participate, but it would certainly be a nice option.
additionally, It would be nice if you could assign different tiers of taxes based on official corp titles. Basically it'd be nice if you could put very new players into a tax-exempt status when they start out. not neccessary as we typically help fund the newer players anyways, but it'd still be a nice option.
tralala
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2005.03.21 03:07:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
corp tax is a simple way to automate an income for the corporation. manual trades & donations takes up valuable playing time. If a corp overtaxes, it'll lose people. But a small tax, even a 1% tax could go a long way to providing some finances & freeing up playing time for the leadership of a corp.
If you don't like it you wouldn't have to participate, but it would certainly be a nice option.
additionally, It would be nice if you could assign different tiers of taxes based on official corp titles. Basically it'd be nice if you could put very new players into a tax-exempt status when they start out. not neccessary as we typically help fund the newer players anyways, but it'd still be a nice option.
tralala
yep what he said
A few ppl seam to be under the impresion that the corp ax would be forced at everyone it is not so
the CEO of each corp can already set the Tax rate for a corp (it just dont work) and if you dont like Tax simply leave it at 0%
also not just market transactions are suppose to be taxable the old Shiva (coming soon) pages had like 10 Deferent setting that could each be ajusted from Market transactions to agent rewards it just did not make it into Shiva
all I am asking is that this extremely usefull tool are implemented IF an Aliance tax are Implemented at the samme time so much the better but the corp tax must be put in ASAP
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Shadar Ishaan
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Posted - 2005.03.21 03:49:00 -
[289]
I was hoping it would be in this patch, but according to the dev blog it should be in the next.
Not that I take a great deal of stock in that.
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Item Trading Post
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Discodude
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Posted - 2005.03.21 04:52:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Xavier Arron
Originally by: jbob2000
personally, i think it doesnt make sense to have corp tax. i mean think about it. you joined a corporation, and you should be getting payed, not paying the corp. Don't want to relate this to RL, but i guess i have to...if you joined a company like microsoft, would you pay them to work for them? no, they would pay you.
Yeah but in RL the company would get to keep everything you make and earn. So hand over all your agent mission rewards, all the ore you mined, all the loot you got NPC hunting. Hand over any tech 2 blueprints since any R&D IP would be owned by the company aswell.
In return you get minimal wage, and a crappy pension plan you can claim when your 65  .
ok I didn't read the whole thread yet but basically I 100% agree with this guy and am 100% in favor of corp tax ASAP.
CCP GET CORP TAX IN.
-----------------------------------------------
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his" General George Patton Jr. |
Bellac
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Posted - 2005.03.21 08:30:00 -
[291]
I have to agree too. The devs seem to spend far too much time messing about with the balance, and not enough time sorting these valuable game enhancements. I for one think its about time things mentioned in this post where added. Company taxes IMO is simply one more thing on an increasingly long list of things that need to be sorted.
It should all be about content rather than balance. So what if a laser has more DOT than a hybrid. You are not forced to use and particular type of weapon or ship. I think variation in weapons adds more variation in game play. Poeple are leaving the game simply because there is not enough content to keep them satisfied.
I worry that there will be very little new content untill the next big patch, which i guess will be towards the end of the year. By that time many more of my friends will have left, and maybe me too.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.03.21 08:50:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Hakera on 21/03/2005 08:52:08
I actually got emailed to ask about tax in the upcoming dev chat and I'll just give my own thoughts here. A tax system is rightly a complex thing because income/expenditure are equally complex. The first problem you face is defining:
what is income?
Now immediatly things start to get complex as you look at your own wallets and you will see some principle income:
Donations from players
Sales from market
Rewards from npc's
So then you define the problem of the next question is that really income? Lets have an example. Im a trader doing some simple trade, say a 100mill overhead which generates 10% profit. Now lets see what the wallet sees:
-100million
-500,000 market tax
+110million
The problem should be obvious from that; the tax system of greedy fatcat ceo sees the 110 million income and whack whatever tax on that. The problem is, it isnt income at all. Only 9.5million is actual income, but poor trader is going to get taxed on all 110mill because our model system isnt as complex or efficient at linking income and expediture from 'projects' and generating a linked net income.
Next scenario -- you have alts, you like the transfer isk between them, sadly player donations yet again - taxed because its an inflow into your wallet. Does a CEO really deserve a slice of that? Same for production - you buy minerals, a bpc and make a ship, your net income is 5mill per ship, but wallet sees a 55mill income.
In otherwords activities which 'churn' your wallet would be taxed to high hell and back.
Problem number 2: Income in Eve? is it always in isk?
answer, no, income is in the form of assets as well. Be it ore/minerals/loot you name it. So the amount a person is taxed does not take account of assets or activites which generate assets rather than isk. So a system based on isk would be skewed towards isk heavy activities whilst a person hording assets (who could then transfer them to alt not with corp tax to sell them).
Overall the result is, without an outright adequatly complex system, corp tax simply wont work. Its either too basic and unfair or too complex & to realistic code. I just dont think you will ever see corp tax Im afraid. Perhaps a role dependant player 'bill' might be more useful. One that strips a members roles if they dont stump up a flat fee.
Just my 2 cents.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Crato
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Posted - 2005.03.21 09:04:00 -
[293]
in with taxes now ccp.
like u guys told us it would be in shiva:
Quote:
Improved Tax system
In EXODUS the corporation tax system will be restored and extended. Instead of having one flat percentage for all member financial transactions, corporation can now specify a percentage value from 0% - +10% for each of the ref.keys defined in the EVE Accounting system. This allows corporations to, for example, tax agent mission rewards but not market transactions.
Quote is from this page: http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/
More info about the taxes:
http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/refkeys.asp
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Serilla
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Posted - 2005.03.21 09:36:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Crato
in with taxes now ccp.
like u guys told us it would be in shiva:
Quote:
Improved Tax system
In EXODUS the corporation tax system will be restored and extended. Instead of having one flat percentage for all member financial transactions, corporation can now specify a percentage value from 0% - +10% for each of the ref.keys defined in the EVE Accounting system. This allows corporations to, for example, tax agent mission rewards but not market transactions.
Quote is from this page: http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/
More info about the taxes:
http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/refkeys.asp
Months before shiva they said this would be coming in. Then they delayed it for the shiva patch... now we are having yet another 'balance'/'huge ass overhaul of working things' instead of adding "easy" things that we want.
cmon put it in game already
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.03.21 13:34:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Crato
in with taxes now ccp.
like u guys told us it would be in shiva:
Quote:
Improved Tax system
In EXODUS the corporation tax system will be restored and extended. Instead of having one flat percentage for all member financial transactions, corporation can now specify a percentage value from 0% - +10% for each of the ref.keys defined in the EVE Accounting system. This allows corporations to, for example, tax agent mission rewards but not market transactions.
Quote is from this page: http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/
More info about the taxes:
http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/corporation/refkeys.asp
Another quote from the bottom of that page 
Quote:
Note : Some of these are conceptual designs that have not gone through thorough playtesting and are all subject to change. CCP reserves all rights to change, in part or completely the designs presented here
nothing is set in stone :)
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Shadar Ishaan
|
Posted - 2005.03.21 14:09:00 -
[296]
Originally by: HakeraAnother quote from the bottom of that page [)
Quote:
Note : Some of these are conceptual designs that have not gone through thorough playtesting and are all subject to change. CCP reserves all rights to change, in part or completely the designs presented here
nothing is set in stone :)
Practical interpretation: "We can make a lot of empty promises to garner interest."
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Item Trading Post
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Sephone
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Posted - 2005.03.21 17:40:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Sephone on 21/03/2005 17:41:32
Originally by: Hakera
Edited by: Hakera on 21/03/2005 08:52:08
I actually got emailed to ask about tax in the upcoming dev chat and I'll just give my own thoughts here. A tax system is rightly a complex thing because income/expenditure are equally complex. The first problem you face is defining:
what is income?
Now immediatly things start to get complex as you look at your own wallets and you will see some principle income:
Donations from players
Sales from market
Rewards from npc's
So then you define the problem of the next question is that really income? Lets have an example. Im a trader doing some simple trade, say a 100mill overhead which generates 10% profit. Now lets see what the wallet sees:
-100million
-500,000 market tax
+110million
The problem should be obvious from that; the tax system of greedy fatcat ceo sees the 110 million income and whack whatever tax on that. The problem is, it isnt income at all. Only 9.5million is actual income, but poor trader is going to get taxed on all 110mill because our model system isnt as complex or efficient at linking income and expediture from 'projects' and generating a linked net income.
Next scenario -- you have alts, you like the transfer isk between them, sadly player donations yet again - taxed because its an inflow into your wallet. Does a CEO really deserve a slice of that? Same for production - you buy minerals, a bpc and make a ship, your net income is 5mill per ship, but wallet sees a 55mill income.
In otherwords activities which 'churn' your wallet would be taxed to high hell and back.
Problem number 2: Income in Eve? is it always in isk?
answer, no, income is in the form of assets as well. Be it ore/minerals/loot you name it. So the amount a person is taxed does not take account of assets or activites which generate assets rather than isk. So a system based on isk would be skewed towards isk heavy activities whilst a person hording assets (who could then transfer them to alt not with corp tax to sell them).
Overall the result is, without an outright adequatly complex system, corp tax simply wont work. Its either too basic and unfair or too complex & to realistic code. I just dont think you will ever see corp tax Im afraid. Perhaps a role dependant player 'bill' might be more useful. One that strips a members roles if they dont stump up a flat fee.
Just my 2 cents.
Well in the first place a doubt a CEO as greedy as this would last very long nor would his corp.
Many of us on the other hand run a collective corporation which reflects the needs of it's members and the corporation as a whole.
I think the only ones that this would affect are the CEO's who already exploit their members.
This system would force many of them to be "MORE" accountable to their members.
i.e. tax revolts and such. :)
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:09:00 -
[298]
They should place tax in and allow each corp to make tax based on the journal entries they wish to tax.
You can not look at taxes on income. You should only worry about takes on transactions.
You should be taxed when you buy something isk or give isk. NPC should tax thier members at 25% soo no more alt players. A player making bounties or selling goods does not benifit the player only when the player spends that isk does it.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Shadar Ishaan
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Posted - 2005.03.22 22:00:00 -
[299]
A reply would be nice. People hate to feel ignored.
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Item Trading Post
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Ethan Kel
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Posted - 2005.03.22 22:35:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Ethan Kel on 22/03/2005 22:36:20
deleted
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