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[Issue] CCP's vagueness with removing Ankh

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Slimy Worm Sons of Viagra	Posted - 2010.07.07 17:52:00 - [1] CCP has not given enough information for why it removed Ankh from CSM. All it said she did was "violat[e] the nondisclosure agreement." Did she reveal things that were said in Iceland? If so, was it for publishing her own minutes for the players she represents? If so, explain how her minutes violate the non-disclosure agreement but other CSM members' minutes don't. I'm no fan of Ankh's; in fact, I think she does not understand core game principles, but CCP needs to give its paying customers more information on why one of the members they elected were removed from CSM.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.07 17:53:00 - [2] We weren't told much either but I doubt that raising it as proposal will gain you much á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.07.07 17:56:00 - [3] She spoke CCP stuff is spread thin for incarna/dust and have no time to deal with current EVE. I am sure that make them angry.
Slimy Worm Sons of Viagra	Posted - 2010.07.07 17:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Sokratesz We weren't told much either but I doubt that raising it as proposal will gain you much I know, but posting it in Assembly Hall allows CSM to bring it up to CCP, so CCP could theoretically address it.
ITTigerClawIK Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:02:00 - [5] CCP was very vague with the whole thing but i think THIS may answer a few of the questions Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:10:00 - [6] Originally by: ITTigerClawIK CCP was very vague with the whole thing but i think THIS may answer a few of the questions Not really. If you're implying the Ankh was kicked for publicly criticizing CCP, then Mynxee would have been kicked also. In any case the overall tone of that article was reasonably positive. Hardly a "hate piece". Besides, if CCP started punishing people for criticizing them, then EVE would only have about 43 subscribers left. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:11:00 - [7] If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh.
DontMindMe JustPassnThru	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:15:00 - [8] It might be tricky to provide more details on a breach of a Non Disclosure Agreement without drawing more attention to the information that was supposed to be Non-Disclosed in the first place. Just sayin.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh.
Saelie	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:37:00 - [10] It's tough to disclose information on a breach of an NDA since in disclosing that information you have to break the NDA again and make the problem worse. I've seen this happen when beta-testing other games, where the company had to kick beta-testers for breaching the NDA but couldn't release any information about what was disclosed. But at the same time, it's also the perfect thing to get rid of someone you don't like for the exact reason that you can't disclose much information. I'm more inclined to go with the former reason in this case because everyone criticizes CCP.
Slimy Worm Sons of Viagra	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Slimy Worm on 07/07/2010 18:54:21 Originally by: Saelie It's tough to disclose information on a breach of an NDA since in disclosing that information you have to break the NDA again and make the problem worse. I've seen this happen when beta-testing other games, where the company had to kick beta-testers for breaching the NDA but couldn't release any information about what was disclosed. But at the same time, it's also the perfect thing to get rid of someone you don't like for the exact reason that you can't disclose much information. I'm more inclined to go with the former reason in this case because everyone criticizes CCP. She revealed information that is critical of CCP, so while she technically disclosed information that violated the NDA, it's likely that the reason they booted her was because she told everyone that they were focusing on DUST and walking in stations. Other CSM's disclosed information about future development too in their minutes of the meeting in Iceland, but they weren't kicked because they were careful enough to exclude specifics critical of CCP.
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:05:00 - [12] Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/07/2010 19:05:05 Originally by: Slimy Worm Other CSM's disclosed information about future development too in their minutes of the meeting in Iceland, but they weren't kicked because they were careful enough to exclude specifics critical of CCP. By that logic they'd have to kickban half of csm.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:15:00 - [13] Originally by: News As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further. What part of this did you not understand? NDA being broken implies some stuff was leaked. Why would CCP open the faucet even more?
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.07 20:33:00 - [14] Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: News As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further. What part of this did you not understand? NDA being broken implies some stuff was leaked. Why would CCP open the faucet even more? The stuff leaked was not related to the CSM. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.07.07 20:56:00 - [15] Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: News As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further. What part of this did you not understand? NDA being broken implies some stuff was leaked. Why would CCP open the faucet even more? Indeed. Also the punishment really isn't that significant, she wasn't banned and she wasn't sued... so... -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Ky Vatta Majority 12	Posted - 2010.07.07 21:08:00 - [16] So, will there be an election to find her replacement?? I think it is only fair, though I expect CCP will deny us it
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.07.07 21:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Ky Vatta So, will there be an election to find her replacement?? I think it is only fair, though I expect CCP will deny us it First alternate will take his place, that is the person with most votes that didn't make it in. The breach was probably a ridiculously insignificant one that was used to get rid of a non-Yes Man. No one left to pressure CCP with force sufficient to make meaningful change .. more lag, more useless fluff coming our way Might have had some odd notions to say the least and a bit on the vocal side, but sometimes screaming is the only way to break down barriers (kids know this all too well, nasty little buggers ).
Major Stallion Instant Annihilation Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:01:00 - [18] tbh, posting "issue" threads about stuff that really isnt an "issue" should be a forum ban-able offense.
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Intercision	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:16:00 - [19] Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 07/07/2010 22:23:42 Who cares, as long as she is gone \o/ VIVA NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS! EDIT: We should probably hold the party here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1349635
Zathi Shaitan Illiteracy Combatants	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The breach was probably a ridiculously insignificant one that was used to get rid of a non-Yes Man. No one left to pressure CCP with force sufficient to make meaningful change .. more lag, more useless fluff coming our way Woman. But yeah you are right. Just look at all the brown-nosers in this forum. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Might have had some odd notions to say the least and a bit on the vocal side, but sometimes screaming is the only way to break down barriers Agreed. In part. The only problem is that most parents get slacky on the education, and just raise brats who think that being an ass is the way to do it. Screaming is good, but the example with kids is actually the worse you could get. ---- http://loseloose.com/ http://youryoure.com/
Spades Slick Caldari Rookies Academy Elite The Compass	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh.
Clovermite Kamikaze Fleet Command Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.07.08 03:14:00 - [22] I kinda wondered when I read her blog. I definitely appreciated the effort she went through to put in so much detail, but it did seem more than what I'd heard was allowable to disclose before the official minutes. It probably didn't help that she had a tendency to let her guard down tact wise. Minor though both infractions might be, they certainly provide enough ammo when combined to legally justify a dismissal.
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.07.08 03:35:00 - [23] As much as you like to hate Ank, she did go to Iceland and be vocal and push CCP to fix things. Everyone else just seemed to be there for the cake and did nothing they said they would do during their run for CSM. I guess the initiative and having someone on their hands from the CSM that meant business was too much for CCP to handle. So sacking her was the best course of action. pr0 tip: Do not actually do what you said you would do to get elected if you want to stay in the CSM.
FOEHAMMER006 Domini Umbrus DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.07.08 03:50:00 - [24] I am glad that this happened, and I don't really care for the details, but curiosity is started to get sparked --------------------------------
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.07.08 06:08:00 - [25] Well Ahk gave it the good old try at least we know CCP heared what probly needed to be said. And no I'm not a Ahk fan but I would support my worst enemy in taking one for the team as a hole as Ahk probly did. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:36:00 - [26] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/07/2010 08:44:59 We will be getting Mazzilu as a substitute? /facepalm I have some problem seeing what was this so serious breach that there was the need to forcibly remove her. Larkonis was given the option to step down before being throw out so CCP should feel it is something really serious. I would like some clearer statement but doing that without increasing the information leak probably is impossible, so I can't support the request.
Takseen	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:48:00 - [27] More info definitely needed here. The CSM isn't much good if mildly vocal members get removed at a whim by CCP without explaining exactly why.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:54:00 - [28] For the love of god people. What exactly is it about 'breach was not related to her blogs or CSM5' that you do not understand? á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.08 10:07:00 - [29] Well I guess she will have more trouble trying to convince CCP to implement her idea to charge players real life cash the more players they kill in game then. Damn shame that.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.08 10:15:00 - [30] She has yellow crooked teeth and CCP employees start to vomit too much after seeing her. _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well!
Krimishkev Out of Order Cult of War	Posted - 2010.07.08 12:52:00 - [31] Originally by: foksieloy She has yellow crooked teeth and CCP employees start to vomit too much after seeing her. i lol'd ibtl. If its a NDA breach it most likely had something to do with DUST514 or Incarna. Who knows, why is this such a big deal? Also, if CCP wanted this to remain unseen, and kept `quiet`, why did they post a news item on the front page of EVE for everyone to see? CCPs waving of the banhammer s'posed to be scary? I got no serious feeling out of this bit, CSM still seems like a big joke to me.
Hori To T.R.I.A.D	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh. I believe you are wrong, when they held an election etc, they have a "moral" obligation to do right by it. They've dragged real people into this, with real names, used them as posterboys and girls to get good press, and now they ditch someone just because. I, as a voter want more details, and it is indeed possible to give them if they so choose. I can wait a few feew weeks. I would also like to know more about how it was handled (why didn't she leave quietly etc). CSM is about transparancy (sp.?), and this case is anything but. In short, internet spaceships is serious business. I want answers.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Hori To Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh. I believe you are wrong, when they held an election etc, they have a "moral" obligation to do right by it. They've dragged real people into this, with real names, used them as posterboys and girls to get good press, and now they ditch someone just because. I, as a voter want more details, and it is indeed possible to give them if they so choose. I can wait a few feew weeks. I would also like to know more about how it was handled (why didn't she leave quietly etc). CSM is about transparancy (sp.?), and this case is anything but. In short, internet spaceships is serious business. I want answers. Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Ninetails o'Cat League of Super Evil	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Hori To Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh. I believe you are wrong, when they held an election etc, they have a "moral" obligation to do right by it. They've dragged real people into this, with real names, used them as posterboys and girls to get good press, and now they ditch someone just because. I, as a voter want more details, and it is indeed possible to give them if they so choose. I can wait a few feew weeks. I would also like to know more about how it was handled (why didn't she leave quietly etc). CSM is about transparancy (sp.?), and this case is anything but. In short, internet spaceships is serious business. I want answers. Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? It has to have something to do with the CSM, because there isn't a NDA for anyone else who plays EVE AFAIK. If you mean this CSM, you may be right though.
Yendor Widdershins University of Caille	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Sokratesz Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? You have repeatedly posted that her ban had nothing to do with her blog post. Do you know why she was banned? Because the CSM chair said CSM wasn't told. And if you don't know why she was banned, why are you running around telling everyone why she was or was not banned?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat It has to have something to do with the CSM, because there isn't a NDA for anyone else who plays EVE AFAIK. Actually, you're oversimplifying the issue. It is entirely possible that she got information that had nothing to with what the CSM was discussing (thus outside the purview of the CSM) and then acted on that information. That would be a breah of the NDA, yet have nothing to do with her CSM duties per se. One example: "Saw an emai over the shoulder of some dev I was watching work. Check out what CCP is doing next!" Don't assume that just because the CSM's have to sign an NDA that her breach of it was because of her "official" duties. In fact, I am more inclined to believe it wasn't, simply because of what happened to Lark. Lark's was clearly based on information passed on directly from CCP to the CSM (based on the details we were provided) and both Lark and CCP were far more open about it. shrugs It's a moot point, anyway. My guess is if Ankh comes out and talks about it directly, they'll invoke that part of the NDA that says they can sue you, and CCP obviously isn't going to give, so all this discussion is really just us rabbling around. --Vel
Ninetails o'Cat League of Super Evil	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:33:00 - [37] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat It has to have something to do with the CSM, because there isn't a NDA for anyone else who plays EVE AFAIK. Actually, you're oversimplifying the issue. It is entirely possible that she got information that had nothing to with what the CSM was discussing (thus outside the purview of the CSM) and then acted on that information. That would be a breah of the NDA, yet have nothing to do with her CSM duties per se. One example: "Saw an emai over the shoulder of some dev I was watching work. Check out what CCP is doing next!" Don't assume that just because the CSM's have to sign an NDA that her breach of it was because of her "official" duties. In fact, I am more inclined to believe it wasn't, simply because of what happened to Lark. Lark's was clearly based on information passed on directly from CCP to the CSM (based on the details we were provided) and both Lark and CCP were far more open about it. shrugs It's a moot point, anyway. My guess is if Ankh comes out and talks about it directly, they'll invoke that part of the NDA that says they can sue you, and CCP obviously isn't going to give, so all this discussion is really just us rabbling around. I guess, but it depends how you define CSM duties. To me, that would seem to be breaching the CSM NDA whilst doing CSM-y things - therefore the breach is about CSM stuff. I'm fairly certain though that it is not a Larkonis-gate style breach though, as all the other CSM members seem just as confused as us, though who knows what they're really thinking...
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:34:00 - [38] Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/07/2010 16:34:58 Originally by: Yendor Widdershins Originally by: Sokratesz Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? You have repeatedly posted that her ban had nothing to do with her blog post. Do you know why she was banned? Because the CSM chair said CSM wasn't told. And if you don't know why she was banned, why are you running around telling everyone why she was or was not banned? Because 4 other CSM members posted the same stuff on blogs and weren't reprimanded for it, and because none of it was NDA sensitive material in the first place? Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat It has to have something to do with the CSM, because there isn't a NDA for anyone else who plays EVE AFAIK. If you mean this CSM, you may be right though. You're wrong, as De'Veldrin nicely illustrated above. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/07/2010 16:34:58 You have repeatedly posted that her ban had nothing to do with her blog post. Do you know why she was banned? Because the CSM chair said CSM wasn't told. And if you don't know why she was banned, why are you running around telling everyone why she was or was not banned? Because 4 other CSM members posted the same stuff on blogs and weren't reprimanded for it, and because none of it was NDA sensitive material in the first place? On the one hand, your point is valid. But it is still an assumption. Perhaps CCP is unaware of the other blogs. Perhaps CCP considers each of them to be a breach, but is being selective about enforcement. Perhaps the problem comes from her work with the reporter last year. Perhaps it has to do with something several years ago that CCP didn't choose to persue until just now. Here is my point: None of the posters -- nor CSM -- knows for sure why she was sacked. If you want to join the speculation that's fine. But posting a flat "That's not why she was dismissed" when you don't know anymore than the rest of us is misleading people who might see your CSM tag and think you are speaking from knowledge instead of assumption. I'm willing to believe CCP that she did something against their NDA other than a blog post. But I also believe that CCP should inform the CSM of more details of what she did. CCP unilaterally removing a CSM delegate without telling the CSM why just reinforces the point that the CSM has no power other than what CCP decides to temporarily allocate them. And certainly isn't transparent or communicating with the playerbase.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:25:00 - [40] Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/07/2010 18:27:21 You're just looking for a reason so you can say CCP treated her unfairly? If you remember correctly, my blog was up long before hers and received quite a bit of attention here and on other boards. Mynxee's is a lot harsher about CCP on certain points so no, it had nothing to do with it, now let go of the idea. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.07.08 23:43:00 - [41] So, here's a funny little fact: Ankh was booted from CSM because she breached the NDA. In other words, revealing information that she was not supposed to reveal. Another way of putting it is: Ankh let the cat out of the bag. CCP does not want to inform us of what excactly it was that she disclosed, even though it has already been revealed Another way to put it: CCP wants to keep the cat that got out of the bag inside the bag. One last thought: Gimme a break. The cats out, at least tell us where the cat is so we can avoid getting our eyes scratched out because accidently sit on it.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.09 00:05:00 - [42] i find the massive Sokratesz posting around this issue quite stupid BTW awesome post OP you win the forums today Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Azmodeus Valar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.07.09 01:30:00 - [43] Most of Sok's recent posts have been relevant to the discussion. Its a shame that he has to keep making the same points repeatedly because people can't seem to understand them or find it more convenient to disbelieve them in order to support their conspiracy theories.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.07.09 03:34:00 - [44] Originally by: ceaon i find the massive Sokratesz posting around this issue quite stupid I find the massive amount of blind conjecture and illogical conclusions drawn from it quite stupid. To each there own I guess. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Pirokobo Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.09 04:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Pirokobo on 09/07/2010 04:17:11 Originally by: Sokratesz Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? Nope, because of the lack of an alternate explanation. This is 2010 and we have the internet. There are no secrets. If it WASN'T related to the CSM but the CSM knew what it was, then one of you would have leaked it anonymously.
Trader Jen	Posted - 2010.07.09 05:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Hori To Originally by: Batolemaeus If CCP choses to keep this private, they have every right to do so tbh. I believe you are wrong, when they held an election etc, they have a "moral" obligation to do right by it. They've dragged real people into this, with real names, used them as posterboys and girls to get good press, and now they ditch someone just because. I, as a voter want more details, and it is indeed possible to give them if they so choose. I can wait a few feew weeks. I would also like to know more about how it was handled (why didn't she leave quietly etc). CSM is about transparancy (sp.?), and this case is anything but. In short, internet spaceships is serious business. I want answers. Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? you keep giving up more information on her expulsion. I think we might be dealing with two NDA breaches in one week. If you're expelled, there's many who wont miss you.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.07.09 05:53:00 - [47] meh. So no one knows what exactly is it that she disclosed? I mean, it has to be something big, or else CCP won't immediately boot her. It also has to be something public, because if she just told a few friends, CCP won't know about it.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:30:00 - [48] Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/07/2010 06:32:52 :facepalm: I'm just doing some damage control for CCP within the limits set out for me, given that they failed to properly do it themselves and that loads of weird people keep getting these ******ed ideas. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Hori To T.R.I.A.D	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Hori To stuff Have you considered the possibility that her NDA breach and subsequent expulsion had nothing to do with the CSM? I did now :) But, if the information is not related to the CSM, how does an ordinary player get access to nda breaching stuff? Do CCP mail stuff around at random? And regardless, she was in the csm, she got kicked from the csm, therefore it is related to the csm. It's a sad situation though, for both parties. The reason I have a problem with it is that if feels unfair.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:35:00 - [50] Originally by: ceaon i find the massive Sokratesz posting around this issue quite stupid It's not like a novelty or anything. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Hori To And regardless, she was in the csm, she got kicked from the csm, therefore it is related to the csm. It's a sad situation though, for both parties. The reason I have a problem with it is that if feels unfair. You are right there but I wouldn't agree with the wording of your first bit. I agree though that as long as CCP doesn't reveal any other information it feels unfair that I have to fight this fight for them á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
ggfdfasdgfsfdg	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:02:00 - [52]
MataSanos	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:04:00 - [53]
pemiculostic	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:05:00 - [54]
0vermama	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:06:00 - [55]
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:07:00 - [56] Originally by: pemiculostic Originally by: MataSanos Originally by: ggfdfasdgfsfdg Thank you for your contributions! á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:52:00 - [57]
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.09 10:50:00 - [58] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: pemiculostic Originally by: MataSanos Originally by: ggfdfasdgfsfdg Thank you for your contributions! Maybe in your haste to do "damage control" you have forgot that this is a thread in Assembly Hall and posting simply to support the proposal/request is allowed and a normal procedure. BTW: at least half of your attempt to do "damage control" had the opposite effect.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.09 11:17:00 - [59] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: pemiculostic Originally by: MataSanos Originally by: ggfdfasdgfsfdg Thank you for your contributions! Maybe in your haste to do "damage control" you have forgot that this is a thread in Assembly Hall and posting simply to support the proposal/request is allowed and a normal procedure. BTW: at least half of your attempt to do "damage control" had the opposite effect. I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Skogen Gump The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.07.09 22:55:00 - [60] Edited by: Skogen Gump on 09/07/2010 22:57:23 You can't talk about privacy, when using someone's handle and real-life name in the same paragraph. in my very humble opinion. CCP, the CSM is about transparency and this was the most attended ballot thus far - if you don't want this to become such a pipe dream, and you don't want to dissuade people from voting again, please be more transparent. At the moment, your voters and subscribers don't know what to think, certainly many think that the way this has been handled, smacks of something untowards going on. Similarly, a lot of people are rubbing their hands together and crowing that Ankh has been removed from the CSM. To you, I say SHAME ON YOU; Ankh was the CSM, her passion, vibrancy and personal sacrifice to the CSM should be an example and inspiration to everyone. To those who say that it's ok for CCP to be private, let me remind you that they've (afaik) unanimously removed an elected official. What kind of confidence does this give you for anything the CSM can or can't do after this ? Anyway, she could throw spoons at me, any day of the week, as long as it got Black ops sorted out, and meta level in item detail views Finally - CCP, I'm not against you; if your decision was fair, then absolutely fine - I'm just begging you to show the transparency that you promised and save the CSM before this goes too far.
Galdornae Caldari Locus Industries	Posted - 2010.07.09 23:26:00 - [61] Big thumbs down to this "proposal." Ankh is such an idiot that I'm not even remotely surprised that she went and blabbed about something she'd signed an NDA about. Why exactly should we expect CCP to tell us info about something they'd had a NDA about in the first place? To satisfy all you people's personal curiousity? I agree that the CSM must be transparent, but by all indications this was not something directly related to CSM workings. Most notably, CCP doesn't owe you. They have every right to keep secret inner workings secret. The CSM is better off without Ankh, nuff said.
Larkonis Trassler EMIX INC	Posted - 2010.07.09 23:54:00 - [62] Hi, Lark here, you may remember me from such internet political scandals as Larkonisgate and... well, that's it. I shall offer some insight having been the only other person thus far to have been removed from the CSM (although in my case I 'resigned'). Now chaps, you're all rushing ahead here. I think a lot of you were slightly spoiled by the way CCP dealt with my misdemeanor. For all the hurf blurf it was a 'relatively' minor in game infraction where I was the only beneficiary of said actions and CCP had the advantage of being able to deal with me in person, me being cooperative and having the rest of the CSM on site to help clean up my mess. As none of these conditions appear to have been met (going by Ankh's quote on Massively) that's probably the reason you're not getting as much information. I've no idea what Ankh did and I'd like to know as much as everyone else. Transparency is great most of the time but the NDA is a srs bsns document and covers a lot of bases. If the breach was particularly serious then there are potential RL legal ramifications as such it is going to be in neither party's best interests to go mouthing off about what happened. CCP gave a reason. That reason was breach of the NDA. You don't have to like it. I, for one don't either, but like it or not it is more than they are required to tell you. This isn't Big Brother, you can't put someone up for a public vote if they foul up. PS Page 3 snipah. PPS Not supported.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.07.10 00:20:00 - [63] Originally by: Skogen Gump You can't talk about privacy, when using someone's handle and real-life name in the same paragraph. in my very humble opinion. Your opinion is dead wrong then. There's literally no other way to handle it if it is in fact a breach of NDA. I hate repeating myself but CCP has made an announcement that Eva Jobse has breached her NDA and removed her from the CSM. This means that Eva Jobse has a very real possibility of being terminated from her current position (apparently at another game development company) where she is undoubtedly also bound by an NDA. This will almost certainly terminate her career in her current industry, as well as any other industry which routinely requires a NDA. Just in case the obvious implication doesn't hit you with a 10 ton hammer across the side of the head: CCP either has some pretty solid proof of a real and serious NDA breach or they're about to be in a civil suit worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and much more in damages. Seeing as how their lawyers (who were almost certain to be involved) would **** themselves over the second option, it's almost got to be the first. So what got her in trouble? Logically, we can assume that she knows at least as much as the other CSM delegates - and potentially more (via a side conversation, etc). We can exclude information and attitudes that were posted in blogs other than hers.. and thus can exclude her blog. We can exclude "spoongate" because there are much more direct, and legally safe, ways of handling that. Really, we can exclude pretty much all the tinfoil hat bull** people are coming up with because of the seriousness of the manner in which this was done. CCP and Eva Jobse are both handling this like it is a real and serious legal issue (and it is!), and they both are doing what I'd think any competent legal counsel would advise - sit tight and STFU. Quote: To those who say that it's ok for CCP to be private, let me remind you that they've (afaik) unanimously removed an elected official. What kind of confidence does this give you for anything the CSM can or can't do after this ? A bit better, actually. It's a sign that they're taking this position seriously and giving them enough power and information to warrant an NDA and significant legal risks. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.07.10 00:38:00 - [64] This whole thing is only a touchy issue because its Ankh. If it was anyone else it would be "oh wow what a tard" and blow over. This despite the fact that based on her general behavior, she was also the CSM member most likely to ignore an NDA. Drama and Ankh, hmm, what a surprise... -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.10 03:07:00 - [65] Originally by: Trygonus As much as you like to hate Ank, she did go to Iceland and be vocal and push CCP to fix things. Everyone else just seemed to be there for the cake and did nothing they said they would do during their run for CSM. I guess the initiative and having someone on their hands from the CSM that meant business was too much for CCP to handle. So sacking her was the best course of action. pr0 tip: Do not actually do what you said you would do to get elected if you want to stay in the CSM. ^ this Without some information from CCP this appears to be what happened.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.07.10 03:42:00 - [66] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Originally by: Trygonus As much as you like to hate Ank, she did go to Iceland and be vocal and push CCP to fix things. Everyone else just seemed to be there for the cake and did nothing they said they would do during their run for CSM. I guess the initiative and having someone on their hands from the CSM that meant business was too much for CCP to handle. So sacking her was the best course of action. pr0 tip: Do not actually do what you said you would do to get elected if you want to stay in the CSM. ^ this Without some information from CCP this appears to be what happened. I'm pretty sure that the minutes won't agree with you. And without information from CCP, I'd argue that it appears there's a serious legal problem - such as perhaps a breach of NDA. Stop with the tinfoil hattery... at this point it looks stupid. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.10 04:07:00 - [67] Originally by: Liang Nuren Stop with the tinfoil hattery... at this point it looks stupid. A simple observation. Until CCP clarifies to players satisfaction it appears political. Just the reality of the situation.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.07.10 04:28:00 - [68] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Originally by: Liang Nuren Stop with the tinfoil hattery... at this point it looks stupid. A simple observation. Until CCP clarifies to players satisfaction it appears political. Just the reality of the situation. I've outlined an enormous number of reasons that make the "political" tinfoil hattery answer about as reasonable as walking stark naked to work tomorrow morning through downtown Chicago. When you have $0, no means of communication, and are currently in Antarctica a thousand miles from the nearest human. Please stop with the tinfoil hattery. CCP has just committed themselves to an ENORMOUS legal liability and both they and Eva are handling this EXACTLY as though it's a real honest to God NDA breach. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Persepoli	Posted - 2010.07.10 04:59:00 - [69] Edited by: Persepoli on 10/07/2010 05:00:13 nvm - link is screwed
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.10 05:39:00 - [70] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Originally by: Liang Nuren Stop with the tinfoil hattery... at this point it looks stupid. A simple observation. Until CCP clarifies to players satisfaction it appears political. Just the reality of the situation. I've outlined an enormous number of reasons that make the "political" tinfoil hattery answer about as reasonable as walking stark naked to work tomorrow morning through downtown Chicago. When you have $0, no means of communication, and are currently in Antarctica a thousand miles from the nearest human. Please stop with the tinfoil hattery. CCP has just committed themselves to an ENORMOUS legal liability and both they and Eva are handling this EXACTLY as though it's a real honest to God NDA breach. -Liang Yes..... You are correct.... I agree... However none of that changes the fact that Eve players are expecting more information.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.10 06:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith However none of that changes the fact that Eve players are expecting more information. That is true, and that is what we are pushing for at this very moment. Although, as Liang has elaborated on at length, CCP is not obligated to inform us in any way, and if it was a different council member, the sentiment echoed on these forums by a fanatic few would be wholly absent, or even worse, inversed. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.10 06:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Trygonus As much as you like to hate Ank, she did go to Iceland and be vocal and push CCP to fix things. Everyone else just seemed to be there for the cake and did nothing they said they would do during their run for CSM. I guess the initiative and having someone on their hands from the CSM that meant business was too much for CCP to handle. So sacking her was the best course of action. pr0 tip: Do not actually do what you said you would do to get elected if you want to stay in the CSM. I hate to be disappointing you here but Ankh took up the least speaking time by far, in fact she didn't say anything at all during about half the meetings. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.07.10 08:40:00 - [73] I know was she meta gaming in the real world? Like a Company spy trying to steal some valuble trade secert from CCP? lmao I just had to put it out there becouse I thought it was funny :) Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
anthonieak Gallente SuX ltd.	Posted - 2010.07.10 10:44:00 - [74] As we will never hear the outcome of it what has happened, du too sentisive of the information. As a voter who had 3 times voted on her you feel a certain point of disappointed. And now my feeling is in what sense can we trust that members we choose for CSM have the right intension? As read further I read that the meeting only takes place in HQ. In other words they trust no one anymore. Although a see ten times we had nothing too do with it, what must we believe as voters over it. Does CSM still act as pact for eve-voters and for what they stand for? Also I see Non Disclore Agreement, I think most of members even do not even know what it is. Only people who work in the security branches. So where does stand for what involves it? AK
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2010.07.10 11:07:00 - [75] I quite liked her blog. This is a quote from Ankh from the massively website - Eva had the following to say: "All I can say at the moment is that out of respect for the CSM, the players of EVE, as well as the good people at CCP, I cannot give any details besides my personal conviction that CCP's statement is not in relation to any of my recent publications, and that I do not share CCP's conclusion that there has in fact been an NDA breach. I am currently engaged in following up this situation with CCP." Source is here
Madner Kami Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.07.10 11:38:00 - [76] Edited by: Madner Kami on 10/07/2010 11:39:21 Originally by: Terranid Meester [...] and that I do not share CCP's conclusion that there has in fact been an NDA breach. I am currently engaged in following up this situation with CCP." If there wasn't, then why is she still dead-silent? Haven't seen her in forums or anywhere since 3 days and counting... She got way too much to loose and her behaviour hints at something really really serious. CCP wouldn't risk getting sued into oblivion with false accusations, given her life is basically depending on if that was true or not.
KaraStarbuckThrace	Posted - 2010.07.10 13:53:00 - [77] Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 10/07/2010 12:00:11 Originally by: Terranid Meester [...] and that I do not share CCP's conclusion that there has in fact been an NDA breach. I am currently engaged in following up this situation with CCP." If there wasn't, then why is she still dead-silent? Haven't seen her in forums or anywhere since 3 days and counting... She got way too much to loose and her behaviour hints at something really really serious. CCP wouldn't risk getting sued into oblivion with false accusations, given her life is basically depending on if that was true or not. The best guess in her favour is, that she told someone something, that was under the NDA, but she didn't think it was. Beyond that, it can only become worse. Completely agree with this. You have to remember that this has a massive impact on Eva's Real Life. If she has in fact deliberately broke the terms and conditions of a NDA then this could have a massive impact on her professional life. CCP knows this as well. I don't believe they would for one minute accuse somebody who real life work revolves around game design of something as serious of breaching a NDA because she said a few things that they didn't like. This would leave CCP open to being sued for liable. I suspect like Madner, that Eva has unwittingly and accidentally revealed some information that was covered by a NDA hence forcing CCP to remove her from the CSM. Also I suspect that due to Eva's silence that she has become aware of this breach. Lets be honest here, if you were in Eva's position, where your professional livelihood was under threat because somebody made a serious accusation about you and you knew 100% you were innocent, you would be screaming for all to hear protesting your innocent. As for CCP releasing more information, well you can forget it. It was a breach of NDA. You expect CCP to state how Eva broke the NDA, in the process of doing this, CCP themselves breaching the NDA. I only hope for Eva that it was just a simple mistake and will not be taken any further.
Soy Salomon Caldari Envoy Corps Quebec Power	Posted - 2010.07.10 14:47:00 - [78] Originally by: Sokratesz I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. Well, actually yes, that's completely your problem and it always is when you are a public speaker / delegate. That's called "politics".
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.10 15:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Soy Salomon Originally by: Sokratesz I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. Well, actually yes, that's completely your problem and it always is when you are a public speaker / delegate. That's part of what is called "politics". Maybe that's also the reason that internet politics != rl politics. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
DeckardIRL The Randoms	Posted - 2010.07.10 15:29:00 - [80] Supposedly its nothing to do with the CSM, you don't need the CSM to tell you that little is being done about much except Incarna and DUST514... PM is a huge disappointment... like FW was previously... Ank is disputing that she has in fact breached the NDA. Eva is a game developer by profession, maybe the issues lies there. All in all no one knows squat so Sokratesz should put a sock in it... Deck Whiskey For CAOD at its best
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2010.07.10 15:34:00 - [81] Originally by: KaraStarbuckThrace Also I suspect that due to Eva's silence that she has become aware of this breach. I have come to believe this as well. Simply put, given her personality, if CCP had removed her without justification, she'd be shouting from the rooftops about now. Or blustering about filing a lawsuit. However, the topic under discussion isn't directly whether or not she did something wrong, or even exactly what she did. The topic under discussion is whether CCP should provide more details (particularly to the CSM) such as, for example, officially saying "No, it wasn't her blog." Right now, the impression that CCP is conveying is: NDA breach = serious CSM = joke. As in, they are ignoring the CSM children to deal with a serious matter. Just remember that the next time you see some of the rhertoric of "I will hold CCP accountable for <insert issue here>".
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.10 15:56:00 - [82] Originally by: DeckardIRL All in all no one knows squat so Sokratesz should put a sock in it... Deck A What? Oo á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Soy Salomon Caldari Envoy Corps Quebec Power	Posted - 2010.07.10 16:03:00 - [83] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Soy Salomon Originally by: Sokratesz I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. Well, actually yes, that's completely your problem and it always is when you are a public speaker / delegate. That's part of what is called "politics". Maybe that's also the reason that internet politics != rl politics. I wish the line was so easy to cut. Sadly for you, it isn't.
Discrodia Gallente Blue Sun Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.07.10 16:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Soy Salomon Originally by: Sokratesz I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. Well, actually yes, that's completely your problem and it always is when you are a public speaker / delegate. That's part of what is called "politics". Maybe that's also the reason that internet politics != rl politics. As far as I've seen internet politics is a good deal more complicated, stupid, and filled with assumptions than RL politics. Point aside, if she broke her NDA then there's no frakkin reason for CCP to tell us all exactly what she saw that broke her NDA, as that's the whole point of a goddamn non-disclosure agreement. To make sure the general population (aka EVE's players) don't know whats happening in iceland. Originally by: CCP Adida Wait where am I... Don't remember a thing from last night.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.10 16:40:00 - [85] Originally by: Soy Salomon Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Soy Salomon Originally by: Sokratesz I'm just posting information, if people interpret said information incorrectly that's not my problem. SOme people just want to see things that aren't there, but it will be a lot easier to convince them or if not that, ridicule them, with CCP backup. Well, actually yes, that's completely your problem and it always is when you are a public speaker / delegate. That's part of what is called "politics". Maybe that's also the reason that internet politics != rl politics. I wish the line was so easy to cut. Sadly for you, it isn't. Yes, yes it is. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2010.07.11 09:27:00 - [86] Out of personal curiosity of course I would support this, but then this is one of those things which I doubt CCP would ever be willing to negotiate on. So it doesn't really matter what any of us think, tbh. /Ben
Daool	Posted - 2010.07.11 11:32:00 - [87] "CCP gave a reason. That reason was breach of the NDA." Well, no. Breach of NDA was the instrument under which CCP removed the individual they accuse of DOING SOMETHING which was the reason for acting. And no, I know thats not the legal attitude but CCP have an ethical responsibility to their employees (who are also covered by NDA's and have a right to know the way in which CCP wield them) and the paying player community also. The REASON for the dismissal could be any of a million reasons and disclosing actual details is not necessary to give some openness to the process, and could include for example: - having deliberately/accidently disclosed future product information, - same for technical technicques (programming etc), - CCP financial information (undisclosed losses etc), - Undisclosed information about CCP employees/directors, CCP could easily just say 'dissemination of information about as yet unanounced product development' and everyone would back off (or anyone reasonable would) untill a later time when the information is no longer secret. To say 'it can't be discussed' and leave it at that is absurd. NDA's are usually such broadly worded documents that they CAN be used to cover just about ANYTHING if you want to twist them far enough, so saying whatever it is was covered by the NDA means zero.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.11 23:38:00 - [88] Originally by: Daool NDA's are usually such broadly worded documents that they CAN be used to cover just about ANYTHING if you want to twist them far enough, so saying whatever it is was covered by the NDA means zero. The exact contents of an NDA are usually covered by it. Liang Nuren took the time and effort to explain all this quite nicely in one of the related threads, you should really look it up if you are interested. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Daool	Posted - 2010.07.12 00:01:00 - [89] "The exact contents of an NDA are usually covered by it." Well yes and no. As someone who both has to sign maybe an NDA every other month and have others sign our NDAs about every week there is usually a few semi-specific clauses in an NDA (or at least articles which appear to be specific but usually often are not if you read them correctly - ie from the point of view of the Coy making you sign it) and a number of clauses which can (if they realy want) be interpreted very loosley indeed. There are of course very specific 'single item' type NDA's, but since it has already been stated that the other CSMs who had to sign the same document don't know why she was dismissed we can very safely take it (?) that the document did not explicitly state 1 single item or even a short bit specific list.
David Carel Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.07.12 02:55:00 - [90] It's quite common to sign a NDA on the actual NDA before signing it. About the only 'simple' NDA I signed is the Steamworks NDA.
Mr Intel	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:20:00 - [91] I spy a leak in CCP's boat. Is anyone else grabbing their life jackets?
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:56:00 - [92] Originally by: Mr Intel I spy a leak in CCP's boat. Is anyone else grabbing their life jackets? No, we are all sipping pina coladas in the lobby. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.07.12 10:38:00 - [93] Originally by: Sokratesz No, we are all sipping pina coladas in the lobby. Man, this guy is so stupid you could perform a lobotomy on a monkey, and the monkey would still come out smarter. I feel sorry for the people who voted for him, specially when you take Obi Wan's wisdom in to consideration: "Who's the greater fool, the fool himself, or the fool who follows him?"
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Intercision	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:16:00 - [94] Originally by: Yendor Widdershins The topic under discussion is whether CCP should provide more details (particularly to the CSM) such as, for example, officially saying "No, it wasn't her blog." Right now, the impression that CCP is conveying is: NDA breach = serious CSM = joke. No, and you appear to have contracted a dangerously contagious case of the wrongs: NDA breach = so serious, they (CCP) can't/won't talk about it (and neither can/will Eva Jobse, it seems). Originally by: Fille Balle Originally by: Sokratesz No, we are all sipping pina coladas in the lobby. Man, this guy is so stupid you could perform a lobotomy on a monkey, and the monkey would still come out smarter. I feel sorry for the people who voted for him, specially when you take Obi Wan's wisdom in to consideration: "Who's the greater fool, the fool himself, or the fool who follows him?" Yeah, how dare that guy have the gall to respond to people at their own level while simultaneously not taking their petty ****. Talking of which: here you go, I found these for you - now you won't have to ask your mom to help you before you can run to the computer and post your latest treatise.
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:26:00 - [95] Originally by: Liang Nuren ...or they're about to be in a civil suit worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and much more in damages. Luckily, European legal system is different from the American legal system. I can't think of any court in Europe that would rule "much more" than 100k+ dollars/euros in damages in a case like this.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.07.12 12:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Yeah, how dare that guy have the gall to respond to people at their own level while simultaneously not taking their petty **. Well, you know, you don't actually have to respond every time some one says something you find offensive... Originally by:** Cobalt Sixty Talking of which: here you go, I found these for you - now you won't have to ask your mom to help you before you can run to the computer and post your latest treatise. Wow, those shoes are awesome. I always wanted shoes like that. Cheers m8!
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Intercision	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:04:00 - [97] Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 12/07/2010 13:05:06 Originally by: Fille Balle Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Yeah, how dare that guy have the gall to respond to people at their own level while simultaneously not taking their petty **. Well, you know, you don't actually have to respond every time some one says something you find offensive... u mad? (that you got called out for targetting the person consistently trying to - usually politely - correct the wildly misinformed and the deliberately misinforming?) EDIT:** I wouldn't say Sokratesz finds them offensive. Maybe he finds the stupidity they portray offensive, but you're speculating either way.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:49:00 - [98] Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Originally by: Fille Balle Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Yeah, how dare that guy have the gall to respond to people at their own level while simultaneously not taking their petty **. Well, you know, you don't actually have to respond every time some one says something you find offensive... u mad? (that you got called out for targetting the person consistently trying to - usually politely - correct the wildly misinformed and the deliberately misinforming?) EDIT:** I wouldn't say Sokratesz finds them offensive. Maybe he finds the stupidity they portray offensive, but you're speculating either way. I like your style. Originally by: Fille Balle Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Yeah, how dare that guy have the gall to respond to people at their own level while simultaneously not taking their petty **. Well, you know, you don't actually have** to respond every time some one says something you find offensive... It's funny though because it generates drama. á I think CSM is a pretty cool guy. eh creates e-drama and doesnt afraid of anything.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:18:00 - [99] Originally by: Cobalt Sixty u mad? (that you got called out for targetting the person consistently trying to - usually politely - correct the wildly misinformed and the deliberately misinforming?) EDIT: I wouldn't say Sokratesz finds them offensive. Maybe he finds the stupidity they portray offensive, but you're speculating either way. Mad? No. Bored? Yes. Bored because you can't come up with some interesting replies, but you seem quite agitated. There are measures you can take you know. For starters, breathe out slowly. When people are feeling angry they most often take in more breath than they breathe out. Breathing out properly helps. Now firstly, I never said that you said that Sokratesz found the comments offensive. I just deducted that from his tone and the very fact that he bothered replying at all. Secondly, this is the internet, and nobody cares what you would/could/did/will say. Originally by: Sokratesz It's funny though because it generates drama. You know, just when I thought you had shown me what maximum stupidity was, you just keep on amazing me. Keep it up! I just put on the popcorn.
Seith Silverstein Something Rotten	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:27:00 - [100] And then the thread boiled down to "who has the biggest troll-peen?". Originally by: CCP Soundwave I am literally the internet
xXxKinkyKelly Caldari Vindictus Venerati	Posted - 2010.07.12 21:54:00 - [101] When i started work for Google, i had to sign a NDA for the NDA, stating that within 1 year of termination or resignation I am not allowed to discuss the nature of the NDA. well the year is up. If the NDA is anything like googles i can say this, If Eva blogged or mentioned to people anything that was covered by said NDA, wether it be Pink pigs with blue snouts were coming for winter expansion and she told people, that would be a breach of said contract, but also NDA's are a two way street to protect the employee aswell as they cannot mention anything further until it is with out 100% proof, kinda like innocent before proven guilty. Also if sensitive information like business practices were being spoken of like how they spent money to outside firms, they are well with in rights to do so, also in the NDA if specific information is not conveyed across accurately then it is grounds for termination, such as employment at specific companies like saying you work for CCP games and or work for outside development houses... huge liability risks and would be terminated. it would be like working for google and yahoo at the same time.
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Intercision	Posted - 2010.07.13 01:03:00 - [102] Originally by: Seith Silverstein And then the thread boiled down to "who has the biggest troll-peen?". Too easy to answer. Originally by: Fille Balle lulz Or at least, I have my suspicions.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.07.13 10:37:00 - [103] Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Originally by: Fille Balle lulz Or at least, I have my suspicions. Now that is lulz. But yeah, I'm waiting for my sub to run out, and I was kinda hoping to get my first forum ban before that. Not having much luck so far though Guess I'll just have to troll harder But yeah, I've kinda lost interest in eve, and the minutes from the last CSM summit was kinda like the final nail in the coffin. Maybe now that I've openly admitted to trolling I can get that forum ban

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