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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2010.07.07 21:40:00 - [1] You've participated in numerous tests on Singularity, helping CCP track down fleet flight lag issues. How have these tests faired? CCP Blaze's newest dev blog gives us the answers. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:00:00 - [2] Some nice insights there. Free jumpclone service\|1092 stations!
Thy Collector	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:07:00 - [3] Nice blog. Always appreciate understanding some of the smaller things that are being down to improve the game. I do really hope that a blog on server-client lag will be created some
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/07/2010 22:11:21 Nice Blog, bonus points for including graphs. Also, you got balls. It seems. Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? Also, will you also look into the abysmal UI rendering performance in the future? The difference in fps between a heavily filtered ui and no ui whatsoever is over 95% for me (going up from <1 fps to ~60 fps just by pressing ctrl+f9, even with drone brackets filtered out and effects down to a minimum is just wrong) ibc
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:09:00 - [5] tl;dr The balls are inert. ---
Yuda Mann	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:11:00 - [6] WTF? Why is CCP always working on dumb stuff that doesn't matter? FIX LAG NAO! oh wait They always have been, haven't they? HI!
Qoi New Eden Warriors	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:11:00 - [7] Thank you very much for the insights
Salyan	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:14:00 - [8] Re: cleaning up map memory on close. I can understand how for some people that 80mb could be important, but for me, I have room to spare. I would much rather have an instant-open map that took 100,200,or 300mb more memory. The delay is irritating when you are constantly switching back and forth. Can this be a toggle in the options somewhere?
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:17:00 - [9] Edited by: Lumy on 07/07/2010 22:18:34 I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too? Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.
Vuk Lau	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:17:00 - [10] Great blog, its nice to present some "backstage" work to the plebs.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Batolemaeus Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? We blogged about in February. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Lumy I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too? The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:24:00 - [13] Edited by: Caladain Barton on 07/07/2010 22:24:47 Client lag fixes, very nice. How about game crushing server lag and desync update? You know..the black loading screen of death, nodes dying when there are only 40 friendlies in system, reinforced nodes keeling over, desync, huge grid loading issues, etc. You know..all the server side stuff? Edit: you posted between when i started and when i hit post. :-)
Moraguth Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:25:00 - [14] Does this have anything to do with why the drone list (assist/guard) isn't working like it did right after dominion came out? They patched the game to fix that stuff you talked about (awesome) but they broke the drone commands list. Having it only show people who were in system (or was it grid?) was AMAZING! good game Hoc filum tradit - This thread delivers.
Cinori Aluben Minmatar Gladiators of Rage	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:27:00 - [15] Thanks for the info! Will digest the numbers a bit more and comment further. I wish I could been there for the past sets of testing, but they kept getting rescheduled when I'd log on. Oh well, keep up the good work.
Carlo Curiosus Caldari Curious Corp	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:27:00 - [16] Edited by: Carlo Curiosus on 07/07/2010 22:27:56 Quote: The Star Map When opening up the star map the graphics were loaded and generated and kept around for easy access later. This resulted in a bit of extra memory usage, but allowed the map to be opened up quite fast. It turned out that by throwing away the graphics when closing the map and regenerating them when opening it, we could release 80 Mb of memory. The change we made means that the map takes a bit longer to start up, but the benefit is that you are not using additional memory for the map when it is closed. What impact does this actually have on lag? I would have thought 80Mb was a drop in the ocean - personally I'd rather have the map load faster than temporarily have a rather small chunk of extra free memory.
SavageBastard GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:29:00 - [17] Edited by: SavageBastard on 07/07/2010 22:34:33 This is great and it's a relief to know that there is still work being actively done on this but it's still obviously not enough. This time last year the game worked better than it ever had in large fleet fights. Things were laggy but they worked and worked fairly reliably. Grids loaded, you could cyno in to laggy system and 1400 man fleet fights were entirely manageable while multiboxing. Currently, an unreinforced system can get laggy with just 100 people in it. I was disappointed that there was no mention of working on why one side of a fight can load a grid just fine and the other simply won't load it at all, particularly when jumping into heavily populated systems. Currently all of 0.0 is essentially "broken" as a result of this and tactics are almost entirely centered on making the other side have to jump into your fleet instead of you into theirs. Strategic objectives are often passed by simply because it would be too risky to get the kinds of ships into the system that would be required to take them. The best way to conquer space currently is not to drop SBUs and engage hostile fleets but to essentially grief the enemy into no longer wanting to live there. For those of us who play the game entirely for the sandbox element and the scale of conquest and alliance battle, it would certainly be more heartening if CCP was much more visibly and aggressively addressing those core issues of grid and system loading and module cycling. You literally sell the game based on the concept of 0.0 warfare. We would very much appreciate if any of it was working. We do not expect a lag-free environment but a return to March 2009 performance levels would be a relief beyond what I could articulate here and it would make the sov system that you all worked so very hard on actually usable. edit I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:32:00 - [18] SWEET MOAR MASS TESTS!! How long until we can go back to 1600 man slug fests?
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:37:00 - [19] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Batolemaeus Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? We blogged about in February. And no progress since then whatsoever. In fact, it got worse. Which is why i was asking whether we'd see a Devblog on (upcoming?) improvements.
Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:38:00 - [20] Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. CCP Devs, Please respond to this post. You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(
Gertrud ToD Terrorists of Dimensions Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Gertrud ToD on 07/07/2010 22:41:32 Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Batolemaeus Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? We blogged about in February. Originally by: From said devblog Final words We have come a long way in understanding the issues that have plagued large fights after Dominion and have gotten important insight into fleet fight lag as a whole. The problems we are experiencing post-Dominion are being worked on and they will be fixed soon, adding more space carnage to your battles. so, since you pointed at that devblog, can we please have a follow up - what happend to those fixes? are you still working on em? when is "soon"?
Innominate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:42:00 - [22] Edited by: Innominate on 07/07/2010 22:44:50 Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Batolemaeus Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? We blogged about in February. Great. Now do you plan do actually DO anything about it? Edit: While that blog contains some useful information for dealing with laggy situations, it says nothing about what actually went wrong with dominion, nor does it say anything about fixes to it.
Odinegras Gallente 0utbreak Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Caladain Barton Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. CCP Devs, Please respond to this post. You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-( you might wanna be more realistic...
Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Odinegras Originally by: Caladain Barton Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. CCP Devs, Please respond to this post. You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-( you might wanna be more realistic... I can't help it..i'm a hopeless romantic and optimist. **** it, you're right. :CCP:
Kismeteer GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:47:00 - [25] Want an easy mass test? Put an announcement that you'll be giving away faction loot at a beacon in like New Caldari on some Saturday morning, maybe 22:00 eve time. Really, any well connected system near Jita, so people can fly around it. See how badly the reinforced node handles it, like where it starts causing problems. I promise that you'll have a lot of people show up. -- Kismeteer, carebear extraordinaire
Zinq Montilis	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:49:00 - [26] Thanks Blaze for the info, your devotion to the community does not go un-noticed and that is what makes eve better than other mmo's.
Malios45 Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:51:00 - [27] I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community. Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane.
Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:56:00 - [28] Edited by: Caladain Barton on 07/07/2010 22:56:16 Originally by: Malios45 I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community. Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane. I know right? Imagine the vast hordes of players too busy to poast because they are blowing each other up in a mass destruction fest in Max 3?
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Malios45 I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community. Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane. That's okay, we could blow each other up over it if lag was returned to pre-dominion levels.
Grez M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.07 22:57:00 - [30] Love the dev log. More like this, more often please (we aren't getting many tech ones lately :(). One like this from the networking department would be nice! ---
Depili Blood Works Inc. Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.07 23:46:00 - [31] So let me get this straight, you have used the 7 months of mass testing for improving our FPS a little while we stare at the black screen or wait 30mins to get out of our exploding ship? In other words stuff that has zero impact on the enjoyment and feasibility of fleet fights? I can't express how disappointing this is.
Swidgen	Posted - 2010.07.07 23:56:00 - [32] Thank you for an interesting and informative devblog. I waste no time hammering on you guys when I think you've dropped the ball (no pun intended), so it's only fair that I praise you when you deserve it. Good job on the level of detail and explaining a little about how it all works under the covers.
Radgette	Posted - 2010.07.08 00:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Depili So let me get this straight, you have used the 7 months of mass testing for improving our FPS a little while we stare at the black screen or wait 30mins to get out of our exploding ship? In other words stuff that has zero impact on the enjoyment and feasibility of fleet fights? I can't express how disappointing this is. seems that way :P oh and don't forget TEH TENGUS R CAUZING UR LAGZ
Mongo Edwards	Posted - 2010.07.08 00:11:00 - [34] maybe that is why my Tengu "skips" sideways when I fire missiles.
Olivor	Posted - 2010.07.08 00:28:00 - [35] This is seriously it for 7 months of testing?
Fearless M0F0 Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.08 00:31:00 - [36] Quote: All the changes mentioned in this blog are client-side only, and will not solve any server-client lag that might exist. However, that should make playing a more stable, faster and more enjoyable experience. I quit participating in mass tests when it was apparent they were not helping you guys to figure out what you messed up in Dominion that screwed 0.0 fleet fights. I was right, you were chasing dead balls in tengus Don't get me wrong, it's cool our clients don't run out of memory that quickly anymore but I rather keep the memory leak relogging my client when it gets slow and have you guys use the manpower and figure out whats wrong with your server code dammit I won't join your mass tests anymore until you make one specifically to figure out your server side issues -- I take offense on people feeling offended by me
ovenproofjet Caldari Therapy. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:13:00 - [37] Very interesting DevBlog, well done to CCP Blaze. I was thinking the other day though that some lag could be produced by the fact that the fleet finder updates the FC on players locations, so surely when a large fleet jumps into a system thats bound to cause alot of calls or updates to the server and using some memory. Perhaps looking at this might solve some problems?
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:23:00 - [38] Wow, so much hate, guys HTFU or GBTHKO, seriously. This is a very informative blog and is a good update on what is going on. First off, they are taking what man power they have available and trying to fix it asap. The client optimization and fixing client bugs are where most of the problems are going to come from. So give them some credit. Now for my feedback - Questions - Does PI run on the same node as the constellation / Solar system? Say I was in Uedema editing a planet in that system when the PI window opens or PI editing goes on, is it attached to that node? IF SO, then maybe pi is causing additional memory usage not realized at one point. #2. While we are seeing client side fixes, have you been monitoring server side memory usage or statistics coming from the server? What can the server tell us about the fleet tests and mass tests? #3. Did people in these tests remember to turn off drone models to increse effeciency? #4 - As some of the time fights can escalate on TQ w/o warning or fleet fights on TQ can happen at times when DEVS are not around? Is there a automated system that could be implemented to record the activity of the fleet fight when devs are not around to monitor it? Say, node XXXXXX has 500 ships currently on it begin recording activity. This might help monitor how the server deals with the situation vs the client. #5 - Jita, what happened =(
FugginNutz Caldari Trolls From Outer Space	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:24:00 - [39] Because of TENGU???? Derp. Nice troll CCP.
SavageBastard GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:24:00 - [40] Originally by: ovenproofjet Very interesting DevBlog, well done to CCP Blaze. I was thinking the other day though that some lag could be produced by the fact that the fleet finder updates the FC on players locations, so surely when a large fleet jumps into a system thats bound to cause alot of calls or updates to the server and using some memory. Perhaps looking at this might solve some problems? The problems way, way predate this feature (which is awesome). If anything a huge amount has to do with the firing of guns which can turn a system from a laggy to paralytic almost instantly. It can't be the sole problem (or perhaps it simply exacerbates it) but it obviously contributes greatly.
Depili Blood Works Inc. Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:30:00 - [41] Originally by: SavageBastard Originally by: ovenproofjet Very interesting DevBlog, well done to CCP Blaze. I was thinking the other day though that some lag could be produced by the fact that the fleet finder updates the FC on players locations, so surely when a large fleet jumps into a system thats bound to cause alot of calls or updates to the server and using some memory. Perhaps looking at this might solve some problems? The problems way, way predate this feature (which is awesome). If anything a huge amount has to do with the firing of guns which can turn a system from a laggy to paralytic almost instantly. It can't be the sole problem (or perhaps it simply exacerbates it) but it obviously contributes greatly. Yeah, 1000 people just chilling on a node isn't too bad, but 200 people shooting at a static structure (pos, ihub, station what ever) makes the node crawl, not to mention 100 people shooting other 100 people...
Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Wow, so much hate, guys HTFU or GBTHKO, seriously. This is a very informative blog and is a good update on what is going on. First off, they are taking what man power they have available and trying to fix it asap. The client optimization and fixing client bugs are where most of the problems are going to come from. So give them some credit. Your ignorance is showing. All the game crippling lag is server side.
Ada Veer Caldari Rule of Five	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:27:00 - [43] Does this mean that we can expect dynamically generated volumetric nebulas? I want the scenery to move when I'm in warp!! I want each solar system to be beautiful and unique like the planets do! I want to see more civilian shuttles and can we see CONCORD fly in fleet formation? Battleships with squadrons of frigates would look so cool! NPC civilian busses and airliners flying around high security space - like Fifth Element's floating hotel!
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2010.07.08 03:20:00 - [44] Very nice blog! Also "destiny balls"? Seriously? I felt bad for Blaze when I read that. ______________________________
WhiteSavage Gallente Ever Flow Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 04:00:00 - [45] If you have no idea whats going on at least admit it. It would seem you used as many words as possible, to try and hide the fact that you know nothing, and have nothing planned, and are doing nothing about it. The lag became un-bearable after dominion. Fleet fights about 700 are now impossible... large scale pvp is neither entertaining nor fun. What created this problem? Everything you've mentioned has nothing to do with our complaints and frustrations. At one point you blame a t3 ship for lag. Awsome, considering the release of the Tengu in March 09 apparently caused the massive spike in lag with the deployment of Dominion 8 months later. What does any of this have to do with me not being able to load system w/400+ in local? What does any of this have to do with me not being able to leave system w/600+ in local? What does any of this have to do with the problems we are NOW, and SUDDENLY having in your video game post-dominion launch?! Why does my client lag when my fleet window is up 2x more then when its not?! Why does toggling auto-repeat off allow me to do more damage get more shots in in a lag-infested enviornment then when its on?! It was a great blog! But my god, wtf. If you have no idea wtf is happening say so.
Darth Vapour	Posted - 2010.07.08 04:43:00 - [46] Quote: Nearing the launch of Tyrannis, it was clear that client performance in fleet fights had gotten pretty bad. Now what about the pretty bad server performance we've had since Dominion ? Even if you were to fix all these client issues the traffic control, emergency warps, stuck guns and black screens seen when you try to move more then 50 ships or, god forbid, try to fight another fleet remain the biggest problem.
Freddybear	Posted - 2010.07.08 05:36:00 - [47] Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. What makes you so sure the devs aren't playing the game in all the big alliances already and always have? Even during and after the T20 incident? Beyond that however, a dev doesn't really have to be seen to be in local watching you masturb...... Err, gate camp or whatever you are doing there. Dev-hax means they can jump anywhere in the universe at any time and be invisible to everyone... He could be targeting 50 ships at a time and activate 50 imaginary turrets on each target. The reason devs want stress tests on sisi is for the sake of a clean testing environment. To find problems you have to eliminate as much static as possible. That can't be done on TQ unfortunately because there are so many variables that could be the cause of so many problems. While the experience you have is very real (lag) it doesn't help the devs fixing it if they simply sit there watching it happen. And i am pretty sure they are aware of how laggy it is, they are also aware of how hard it is to determina WHY it's lagging more than it really should.
Darth Vapour	Posted - 2010.07.08 06:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Freddybear While the experience you have is very real (lag) it doesn't help the devs fixing it if they simply sit there watching it happen. And i am pretty sure they are aware of how laggy it is, they are also aware of how hard it is to determina WHY it's lagging more than it really should. You must have missed Vuk Lau's report from the CCP/CSM meeting where the devs were unaware of how gun cycling could be partially negated by the players.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.08 06:55:00 - [49] Originally by: Yuda Mann WTF? Why is CCP always working on dumb stuff that doesn't matter? FIX LAG NAO! oh wait They always have been, haven't they? Well except for the trivial detail that it's even actually worse now than it was before. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.08 07:59:00 - [50] For Pete's sake CCP?! You can have 80mb! As long as you don't have it again every time I click my map. As an explorer I need instant map loading.
Irumani Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:03:00 - [51] Originally by: SavageBastard Edited by: SavageBastard on 07/07/2010 22:34:33 This is great and it's a relief to know that there is still work being actively done on this but it's still obviously not enough. This time last year the game worked better than it ever had in large fleet fights. Things were laggy but they worked and worked fairly reliably. Grids loaded, you could cyno in to laggy system and 1400 man fleet fights were entirely manageable while multiboxing. Currently, an unreinforced system can get laggy with just 100 people in it. I was disappointed that there was no mention of working on why one side of a fight can load a grid just fine and the other simply won't load it at all, particularly when jumping into heavily populated systems. Currently all of 0.0 is essentially "broken" as a result of this and tactics are almost entirely centered on making the other side have to jump into your fleet instead of you into theirs. Strategic objectives are often passed by simply because it would be too risky to get the kinds of ships into the system that would be required to take them. The best way to conquer space currently is not to drop SBUs and engage hostile fleets but to essentially grief the enemy into no longer wanting to live there. For those of us who play the game entirely for the sandbox element and the scale of conquest and alliance battle, it would certainly be more heartening if CCP was much more visibly and aggressively addressing those core issues of grid and system loading and module cycling. You literally sell the game based on the concept of 0.0 warfare. We would very much appreciate if any of it was working. We do not expect a lag-free environment but a return to March 2009 performance levels would be a relief beyond what I could articulate here and it would make the sov system that you all worked so very hard on actually usable. edit I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. Quoted for massive and saddening truth. The nullsec game is broken, and I'm sure every nullsec player want to be sure CCP understands the problem fully. We all know a better understanding of the problem can lead to a better fix, so please CCP, get someone in any nullsec alliance for a week or two, joining fleets and playing at the same level we all do. You'll see by yourselves all the mess nullsec currently is. Fixing client-side issues is cool. Getting the game to run at pre-Dominion levels would be awesome.
Shirrath Minmatar No Limit Productions Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:05:00 - [52] Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. The devs of the game-that-should-not-be-named have a habit of watching certain events live. Just hanging around reinforced nodes with an (invisible) ISD frigate would be an improvement.
Dztrgovac	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:06:00 - [53] Beloved CCP and noble community. It would appear a tiny issue is missing from this devblog, there are no mentions of serverside lag and desyinc related to major fleet engagements. That is the main and worse problem EVE has now (and fear of clientside haxploits, but you are fixing that ASAP CCP right?). Serverside issues are what needs to be fixing, not making map load every time to save 80mb now when most people have more than 4GB of RAM.
Dierdra Vaal	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:40:00 - [54] Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 08/07/2010 08:40:52 Originally by: Devblog ... balls ... balls ... balls looks like CCP are on their balls. I also hope a devblog with more insights into the actual lag and mass tests is released soon - a few more FPS arent that useful when you're lagged out. * * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
Eowarian D Indicium Technologies	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:49:00 - [55] Nice blog, CCP Blaze! Always good to know how the insides of the Eve Client are taken care off, and how. Thanks for explaining and keep on the good work!
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:01:00 - [56] Let's see, since this was all client side, what remains: General "lag" issues: - Stuck guns/modules - Actual server lag Issues introduced with Dominion: - The grid load issue - The excessive amount of traffic control ~~- The client side performance issues associated with fleets~~ - Actual server lag (yes, again, as with Dominion it got worse) Please give an update on those issues, since this devblog there has been no communication at all about the progress.
Ariane VoxDei	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:07:00 - [57] Originally by: devblog In Tyrannis 1.0.2, we deployed changes that do more targeted updates of overview entries and brackets when a player joins/leaves your fleet, rather than updating them all. The fleet window performance was further improved by adding/removing the player from the member list rather than reloading the whole list. That those are supposedly actual things that went live is so jawdroppingly bad judgement/coding that it defies belief. I would much rather believe that you MADE IT UP in order to have something to throw to the wolves. It's the equivalent of telling people to do a full client download instead of getting a much smaller patch, when the client needs to be updated. And doing that in a situation that requires near-realtime performance. It's not just shooting your own foot, it's sawing off one leg at the knee and the other at the hip. btw nice timing as usual. You know what I mean, and I won't point it out.
Maksim Cammeren	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:08:00 - [58] Thank you for the informative devblog. I appreciate your hard work to make the game faster. I have been impressed by the improvement in client performance from the Tyrannis upgrade. I play Eve on two different computers. My primary one is a high-performance desktop, but I also login from a netbook, whenever I need to do trading or update my skills (or anything but PvP). After the Tyrannis upgrade, I get 1.5-2x FPS on my netbook, as well as half the amount of delay in opening the market, journal, or agent conversations. (After half a day of playing, the game slows down again, so there might still be some leaks). Before the update, the game was barely playable on a netbook. Other people with low-end computers also likely noticed a difference. On the powerful desktop, the improvements aren't as dramatic, but I am sure I would see them if I conduct some tests. Now, as other players have mentioned, the remaining dragons are hiding on the server side. I have participated in the latest Sisi test and the lag during the battle made it completely unplayable for me. Let's hope that CCP collected sufficient data from these tests and bring similar improvements to the server side of the code.
Kwa Zulu Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:32:00 - [59] Interesting blog, but it seems incomplete, most of the issues handled are client side, while the majority of the current lag problems is obviously serverside!
Nomad IV	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:42:00 - [60] I can confirm the success with the client. Before I had problems with more than 2 clients, now I can start 4 without problems. BUT what is with the server side lag? With every upgrade since Dominion it's getting worse. Remember: There are many that won't new fancy stuff, they desire is much less lag.
Ishina Fel Caldari Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 09:53:00 - [61] Thanks for the hard work; however I also wish to lobby for an option to keep the map in memory. Some of us have plenty to spare! :) Signature? What signature?
Grikath SWARTA Mostly Clueless	Posted - 2010.07.08 10:08:00 - [62] There's also many more people that could not give a rat's nether regions about the massive pewpew-fests a very vocal minority here seem to like so much. Not everyone has a state-of-the-art gaming box, and the fixes mentioned in this Devblog have a serious impact on the playability of the game on older machines, and do benefit the vast multitude who are interested in all the other forms of PvP EVE has to offer outside of pewpewing in nullsec. And what is CCP supposed to do, ignore identified bugs that lag the client, and which may feed back on any server-related issue, just to please a couple of professional whingers beating the same drum over and over again? Get a grip, leave your parents' basement and go look at a phenomenon called "Real Life". The more the client gets cleaned up, the less white noise there is regarding any server-side issue that may be the cause of any lag. This is a Good ThingÖ.
Tester128	Posted - 2010.07.08 10:12:00 - [63] while it's nice to know why the client crashed sometimes with t3 on the grid, the end result is still kind of facelift and liposuction on a terminal cancer patient. tl:dr - fix the fleet fight lags (now it's small roaming lag actually). nice blog
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2010.07.08 11:32:00 - [64] Edited by: Libin Herobi on 08/07/2010 11:32:37 Edited by: Libin Herobi on 08/07/2010 11:32:07 Originally by: Caladain Barton Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. CCP Devs, Please respond to this post. You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-( Just make the devs participate in the mass tests on SISI. You have all the lag you could want right there. I'm also wondering how old some of those issues are. Did someone change the overview before player reported it to be updating "too often"? Did someone touch the resource manager to introduce memory leaks and when? And yes, the client is the part that is already very well customizable to greatly improve FPS. Again working on "priority 3" items instead of "priority 1". EDIT spelling is especially difficult today
Chir Ishi	Posted - 2010.07.08 11:40:00 - [65] Thanks for the write up. I appreciate the hard work, keep it up.
Kajan Tormen Minmatar Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:05:00 - [66] Joining the lobby to bring faster map load times back. I open and close the map VERY often, having to wait 3 seconds for it to lead every time is pretty annoying. (not game breaking, but back when the 80 mb were kept in memory it used to be almost instant after the first load). I can not imagine that 80 mb of ram is a problem for the majority of players. if it is ... please make it an option... Even when dualboxing EvE, I usually have 2 to 1.5 gigabyte of RAM to spare, so obviously I'd appreciate all the caching that's possible. As not everyone is in the same position - make the caching of various things optional!
Shepard Book Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:43:00 - [67] Good to see some progress. Keep it up.
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:04:00 - [68] The map always took forever to load. I doubt you would've even noticed they made a change had you not read it in this devblog. I have noticed the various texture and graphics upgrades. The new Primae ship looks really high-res by the way. Can't wait to see the other upgrades they have in store. Most games use volumetrics for their clouds, smoke, dust, effects & lighting halos. Are there plans to incorporate the same effects into EVE? Currently all smoke is rotating bitmaps, and all lights and engines are also animated bitmaps, so when they intersect with geometry, it looks really bad. I know there's quite a bit on the plate already, but if the graphics team can write a devblog about the graphical enhancements coming our way, that would be really sweet. Thanks CCP!
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:24:00 - [69] DirectX 11 and what it means to you! I'm on a mac by the way, but I still want to see DX11 implemented in EVE!!
TheLostPenguin	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:28:00 - [70] +1 to making map caching an option, I thought the marginally slower load times were a result of some new cient bug or me having too much running on system, turns out it was a deliberate change, that sucks :( I fully understand not everyone has conputers capable of running a half dozen clients without even breaking a sweat, and those few Mb are very handy I'm sure for those limping along with 1 or 2Gb system memory, but can it really be that much work to give the rest of us the option of improving client performance somewhat? Nice to see a couple of the client issues that have been annoying getting cleared up, altho thats only a couple of positive changes to the client when everything else thats been changed in last year or so has made ther client worse, wish you'd find solutions to issues rather than just ripping bits out of the client CCP >.<
Shasz Detox. Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:53:00 - [71] Edited by: Shasz on 08/07/2010 16:53:10 That was a great read, thanks for the insight. While we're talking client-lag, are you working on fixing session changes when your people & places window is open? I have lots of bookmarks for obvious 0.0 reasons, and whenever I go through a session change with my P&P window open, it takes an extra few seconds to work through all those BM entries and I presume determine the # of jumps and paint the right ones green. When jumping gates in 0.0, or losing a ship, timing can be critical, and the extra 2-3 seconds lost can be precious. Honestly, I don't care about my bookmarks in the next door system, let alone whether my one Jita bookmark is 25 or 26 hops away. Just load the current system's BM's maybe?
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:55:00 - [72] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Lumy I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too? The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results. For those who seem a little slow on the uptake. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Clansworth Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:24:00 - [73] I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". Intel/Nomad
YeOldeScout934	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:53:00 - [74] If the dust is causing a problem, sounds like a good reason not to have it in the game at all. What does it add to the game playing experience?
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:03:00 - [75] blog - yay results - meh Keep at it, CCP.
Dacil Arandur	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:11:00 - [76] Originally by: Clansworth I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". This. Great job CCP Blaze and team! As was mentioned in previous dev blogs, what many people perceive as lag is often local to their computer. Any improvements to the performance of the client are great, and we all appreciate it! Thanks again for the hard!
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Clansworth I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need. Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day. People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs.
Saeborg Ninja	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Caladain Barton Originally by: SavageBastard I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. CCP Devs, Please respond to this post. You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-( How do you suggest that happens? As soon as someone finds out that player XXX is a CCP dev, there will be an outburst of accusations of cheats, espionage and foul plays with no way for XXX to vindicate himself.
HoboWithASalvager	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:51:00 - [79] What use is a client performance improvement when I can't log into the game ?
Orange Faeces The Squirt Locker	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:33:00 - [80] Originally by: Irumani Originally by: SavageBastard ... Quoted for massive and saddening truth. The nullsec game is broken, and I'm sure every nullsec player want to be sure CCP understands the problem fully. We all know a better understanding of the problem can lead to a better fix, so please CCP, get someone in any nullsec alliance for a week or two, joining fleets and playing at the same level we all do. You'll see by yourselves all the mess nullsec currently is. Fixing client-side issues is cool. Getting the game to run at pre-Dominion levels would be awesome. There are lots of CCP employees in 0.0 alliances, bro. NC is clear evidence of that. O. Faeces ---
BearUkraine	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:45:00 - [81] Originally by: Salyan Re: cleaning up map memory on close. I can understand how for some people that 80mb could be important, but for me, I have room to spare. I would much rather have an instant-open map that took 100,200,or 300mb more memory. The delay is irritating when you are constantly switching back and forth. Can this be a toggle in the options somewhere? +1 Toggle can be accaptable for everyone. I have enough memory and I personaly dont want to see any delays.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:01:00 - [82] Originally by: dev blog All the changes mentioned in this blog are client-side only, and will not solve any server-client lag or any other epic server side failure that might exist and has existed for the past several months. However, that should make playing a more stable, faster and more enjoyable experience. Fixed your ~~post~~ blog. Seriously? it's not even funny anymore -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
JasonKuehn The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:01:00 - [83] Originally by: SavageBastard Edited by: SavageBastard on 07/07/2010 22:34:33 I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this. This, please!
javer 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 - [84] its good to read we have improvements on the client side but somehow that doesnt equate into improved fleet fight performance as that is almost entirely server side, and the game was more responsive during apocrypha (max v1 fight in e-o as prime example 1000+players on same node with fighting and node still lived+cycled guns) then take a "fight" today with just 100 cap ships in local shooting poses and guns wasnt cycling, strange behaviour like scrambling notices after pos was reinforced etc ccp needs to locate what they changed/implemented that made the db server/node slow down in fleet fights compared to apocrypha. new features can get stuffed unless they make the game playable for what is supposed to be the "end game" for older players -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 - [85] Originally by: Libin Herobi Originally by: Clansworth I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need. Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day. People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs. I think you won an award for this post, but I'm not sure "Most Clueless" is something you want to brag about. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:30:00 - [86] Originally by: Saeborg Ninja How do you suggest that happens? As soon as someone finds out that player XXX is a CCP dev, there will be an outburst of accusations of cheats, espionage and foul plays with no way for XXX to vindicate himself. I think we're over that by now. This isn't 2007 anymore. I'd have no problem with IA supervised devs in player chars in 0.0 alliances as long as there is a good was to monitor. Let IA report to CSM every time they visit iceland for example. I trust the CSM enough that if they say there's nothing fishy going on, I'm going to believe them.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare STR8NGE BREW	Posted - 2010.07.08 22:34:00 - [87] Great blog! I hope to see more like it. I think most of the community knows that CCP does do a lot of work behind the scenes to make eve run faster, but we don't see it enough. It's great to get the details on what was causing performance problems, and what was done to fix it.
UVPhoenix2 Gallente Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.07.08 23:21:00 - [88] CCP Fallout you make me wet. I know how you feel. Material of this nature affect us all in different ways. What you need to do is learn from this. And this is just my sig.
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2010.07.09 04:26:00 - [89] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Libin Herobi Originally by: Clansworth I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need. Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day. People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs. I think you won an award for this post, but I'm not sure "Most Clueless" is something you want to brag about. You are sooooo cool. But seriously, I have better ways of wasting my time than trying to reason with you.
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries	Posted - 2010.07.09 04:28:00 - [90] yo CCP Blaze, click on your name and see the error message that pops up!
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:27:00 - [91] Originally by: Zendoren yo CCP Blaze, click on your name and see the error message that pops up! He's obviously a spy.
Huhuhuhuhuhuh	Posted - 2010.07.09 08:05:00 - [92] Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:10:01 Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:06:57 Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:05:55 Reading this dev blog made me extremely sad. Spend some money on QA it really pays out. At least true-pvper's wont be running around without any repercussions with stuff like in this picture: http://i26.tinypic.com/2vvkytd.jpg
Saman Ayan Minmatar Lazy.	Posted - 2010.07.09 09:57:00 - [93] Supporting to have an option for map caching, there are a lot of people who rely on the maps (especially the explorers) but don't need the performance improvement. Please stop taking out useful features just to make the game a bit more stable. the widescreen option is a good example of this.
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.07.09 12:13:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP Blaze Overview changes During these Singularity tests, the top issues reported by players were that the overview was updating too frequently and felt too "jerky," and that the fleet window was causing client lag. And you good folks at CCP only discovered this after the "mass" tests on Singularity? Your players have been reporting this problem on these forums since the launch of Dominion -- months before the coordinated testing on Singularity. Originally by: CCP Blaze Upon investigation, we found out that fleet changes were causing a lot more UI updates than were necessary. Every time a player joined or left your fleet, your flat fleet member list and the overview were reloaded, and, in addition, all the brackets were refreshed as well as all the overview entries. See above. This was a well-documented problem that players in large fleets were experiencing. Originally by: CCP Blaze This was only discovered a few days before Tyrannis was released, so we did not want to change too much at the time. Seriously? I call your bull** and raise you two tons of horse*. Dominion was released December 1, 2009. The Fleet window issues were starting to be discussed on these forums in December and more heavily in January, 2010. How is it that this issue was "discovered" by CCP's paid professionals* over five months after it was documented in these forums by paying customers? And, no, CCP Atlas's dev blog on Dominion issues addressed only the tip of the iceberg of actual documented player experiences (not to mention a complete lack of follow-up). The Dominion Debacle was never truly addressed by CCP in a timely and comprehensive manner in either words or deeds. And the repairs are only now trickling into the game with as much misdirection from CCP personnel as is possible. Is this business as usual at CCP?
Master Rad	Posted - 2010.07.09 14:15:00 - [95] Originally by: Dacil Arandur Originally by: Clansworth I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on". This. Great job CCP Blaze and team! As was mentioned in previous dev blogs, what many people perceive as lag is often local to their computer. Any improvements to the performance of the client are great, and we all appreciate it! Thanks again for the hard! bolded the fun part. u have seriously NEVER ever flown in a big fight, because if that is true what ur saying then that means that my i7 core, the dual gtx295 in SLI mode and my 8GB RAM is not enough to run my client lag free... YEAH RIGHT! also i confirm its my PC crashing the server, because my client is soo laggy... oh wait! back to the issue: CCP a good job on fixing client performance, however as stated before thats not the prime issue (eventho its nice to get more performance). What i want to add tho, server side main issues (according to CCP tanis' neat thread about the testserver) are: - no grid loading (the only of the issues that rly is a main issue) - overview updating to often (lol ok, i would say its a jumpy overview when hitting CTRL but ok, its not laggy just annyoing) - fleet window causing client lag (fixed) what i miss rly tho is following: - module lag, command lag (its that thing that lets u warp 5 minutes after issuing the cmd and that makes ur guns go stuck) - nodes crashing (prolly mix of module lag and grid load stuff) now i dunno if that is included in the "no grid loading" issues, or if its even caused by it. it would be nice to get (maybe CCP Tanis' can do that cuz hes awesome and good at it) like an issues list with details, that breaks it up a bit. Also i rly admire devs doing blogs, tho i would prefer dev blogs that first roll out all the issues on a topic and then go into detail, not only about a part of an issue. In return i would accept if dev blogs wouldnt come out that regulary. However, Server-Side lag has to be prime issue, testing PI and client side issues is nice, but we can do that later i am prty sure if u guys at CCP would lay the focus for testing on the main issue and slam out a update on it, then u will get more and more mass testers. Atm i feel somewhat used, i came to test for Serverside lag and had to test PI and client stuff... NO THANK YOU!
hamon konakh	Posted - 2010.07.09 17:37:00 - [96] So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed? C/D? Or is this game still ****ed up?
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:25:00 - [97] Originally by: hamon konakh So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed? C/D? Or is this game still **ed up? Originally by:** dev blog All the changes mentioned in this blog are client-side only, and will not solve any server-client lag that might exist. However, that should make playing a more stable, faster and more enjoyable experience. They don't even acknowledge the server issues. Might as well let your subscription run out. -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.07.09 22:57:00 - [98] Edited by: Nova Fox on 09/07/2010 22:57:41 Please remember known and discovered are two entirely seperate things. Known is faith based - They're taking your word on a problem that supposivily exists and there is a perchance it could be found, the more its reported the more likely its going to get looked into especially if its game breaking. Analogy - You have a treasure map that has an X on it to mark the spot. You hear more and more rumors about the treasure being real so you set out to go find it. Small problem, you have no idea where that ice planet is described in the map, but you know its on a ice planet of some sort. Discovered is factual - Seeing finding and actually being able to poke the issue and make it squirm. Analogy - Lo and behold you actually hit the box with your shovel, and dug it out of its hole, now the problem is trying to open the box in an attempt to cause an accidental continuation of life as the box is heavily boobie trapped. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
Taladool	Posted - 2010.07.09 23:43:00 - [99] Edited by: Taladool on 09/07/2010 23:44:26 Originally by: hamon konakh So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed? C/D? Or is this game still **ed up? Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues. Maybe you should be grateful that they are telling us anything at all. I mean everyone throws a fit wanting information about how eve works and what CCP is doing to make it better. When they give you what you want, what does the eve-online forum *s do? they ing *** about it and whine, why won't you fix my lag mister TECHNICAL GRAPHICS DEVELOPER!! Because you know, the guy working on the physics and graphics rendering would be a distributed network specialist am I right? RIGHT!! Stop and think and be happy they tell us what they do. Rest assured there is more then one team working on eve, and throwing Graphics people on server issues, at lest to me, doesn't seem like a very good idea. Edit: added a few line brakes to move my sig below the body of text. Hosting websites, pay in isk, cheap prices, fast service. check us out
Arin Fensfield Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.10 03:57:00 - [100] Originally by: Taladool <Above> Here, here.
Lederstrumpf	Posted - 2010.07.10 05:34:00 - [101] Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 10/07/2010 05:45:34 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=727 == snip == One of the most important things to keep in mind when you are in a system with heavy lag is that you should not hammer any buttons and you should try to execute as few commands as possible. If you are waiting for the grid to load the worst thing you can do is click buttons on the interface or chat in local. These actions will have a negative impact on your client's ability to recover (more to the point, on your session on the server). If you have an outstanding call you should wait for it to complete, and it will complete eventually. [..] Calls typically time out in 8 minutes and this is true of the request for the simulation instance (grid). If you have waited for 8 minutes for the grid to load you will not recover. If you have the monitor open and see the Outstanding number drop to 0 and your grid doesn"t load then you have no choice but to relog, and even that might not fix things if the server is still overloaded. == snip == So in the meantime the Technical Director of CCP, Jon Bjarnason, is expecting users to work around design flaws?? Oh my god! Here we're at the core of CCPs problems: Bad design under top level protection. You're telling paying customers they should wait up to 8 minutes to find out if their client did crash and do nothing meanwhile? While their ship possibly is under attack? It shouldn't be too difficult to detect server response stalls in the client sometime shorter than 8 minutes nor to block user input to prevent flooding of the input queue if that's supposed to help. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=774 == snip == We have also changed the way Destiny removes Destiny balls so now there are no references back to the ball from the graphics when the ball is removed. == snop == With a history of not having the best record of not having overlooked {accompanying, new} flaws introduced by "fixing stuff", I question if "relying on circular references" is the most sane approach from your side. Don't rely on something. Doublecheck! Multiple "you are here" markers in star map, ghost ships on overview after warping away, autopilot settings influencing market item distance calculation... is there any chance there's additional stale referencing to dead balls on client side originating from overview and autopilot code instead of graphics, the latter one supposedly being fixed? > "The error was not easy to spot, but thankfully easy to fix." I'm not convinced you got all related errors.
Caladain Barton Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.11 00:09:00 - [102] Edited by: Caladain Barton on 11/07/2010 00:10:18 Originally by: Taladool Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues. I would. Everyone on my team knows, at the very least, the architecture (actual code/subsystems, not pretty power point boxes that don't tell you ***) and what EVERY OTHER TEAM IS DOING* at least at a high level. Any time two teams are playing in the same code sandbox, the two teams coordinate their efforts, and know what the other team is doing intimately. It really isn't too much to expect, and is the norm of a decent software house. If you don't know what the other team is doing intimately (not necessarily in their planning meetings, but you know what files they are touching and what their goal is and what functions they are modifiying/adding/removing by watching source control) how can you know when one of them is about to take a big **** in your code because he isn't paying attention and is driven by motivational forces that don't necessarily align with your own? Really, it's not hard with decent CM and good middle managers. So no. It's not unreasonable to expect that someone working on the client code (which gets intimate with the server code) to know what the server team is doing. If they don't, how the **** do they get things done? Strictly by interface documents without ever seeing the other side of the code? Did that rodeo once..vowed never to do it again.
Taladool	Posted - 2010.07.11 01:10:00 - [103] Originally by: Caladain Barton Edited by: Caladain Barton on 11/07/2010 00:10:18 Originally by: Taladool Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues. I would. Everyone on my team knows, at the very least, the architecture (actual code/subsystems, not pretty power point boxes that don't tell you ***) and what EVERY OTHER TEAM IS DOING* at least at a high level. Any time two teams are playing in the same code sandbox, the two teams coordinate their efforts, and know what the other team is doing intimately. It really isn't too much to expect, and is the norm of a decent software house. If you don't know what the other team is doing intimately (not necessarily in their planning meetings, but you know what files they are touching and what their goal is and what functions they are modifiying/adding/removing by watching source control) how can you know when one of them is about to take a big **** in your code because he isn't paying attention and is driven by motivational forces that don't necessarily align with your own? Really, it's not hard with decent CM and good middle managers. So no. It's not unreasonable to expect that someone working on the client code (which gets intimate with the server code) to know what the server team is doing. If they don't, how the ** do they get things done? Strictly by interface documents without ever seeing the other side of the code? Did that rodeo once..vowed never to do it again. The Graphic rendering on your PC has nothing what so ever to do with the server, or the code in the client that talks to the server, aside from being told what to render. Its very unlikely that a GFX person or team is going to know much about the server side of the project. Its not that they don't know the broad picture, I'm sure they do, but put simply they aren't responsible for the server, and a good deal of them most likely have different training and specializations in their field, then the server programmers. Its not like you go to school for programing and when you get out, all of a sudden you know everything there is to know about programing, most people have the general knowledge of how to program when they come out of school, then go into a specialization. Of course there are those that don't and generally are ok or good at a lot of things but not great at any one thing. Now tell me this, if your CCP and you want to hire a programmer to program the way gfx are rendered on your game, do you want the guy that is specialized in server software, or graphics rendering? so again, no I wouldn't expect them to have intimate knowledge of the server side software. And even if they did, is it their place as the client gfx programmers to tell us about the server issues or would that maybe fall to the server team? My main point was the devs that posted the blog don't know anything or they know very little about the server side issues, and even if they know alot, its not their place to talk about it. Everyone needs to stop ***ing at the wrong people. They are talking about CLIENT GFX not the SERVER, so maybe they aren't the ones working on the server? I know its hard to come to that conclusion considering they are talking about the client and not the server, but then again I guess deductive reasoning is about as rare as common sense these days. Hosting websites, pay in isk, cheap prices, fast service. check us out
Turdilious	Posted - 2010.07.11 04:13:00 - [104] Fix lag? CCP couldnÆt find a hooker in a ***** house.
Clansworth Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.07.11 05:19:00 - [105] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia They don't even acknowledge the server issues. Might as well let your subscription run out. That's nonsense. They HAVE acknowledged the server side issues.. they've BEEN acknowledging them since the nodes started getting overcrowded in 2005. They have made massive improvements in that time. The fact that Jita is survivable at this point is a testament to that. I had higher expectations of eve players than this, but to reiterate: 1. Why does a release about them finding some problems in the client meant that they AREN'T working on the server as well? CCP operated as many connected teams, each with different areas of influence. 2. Even if fleet fights grew in size to 2000 people, that would mean at that point, about 0.6% of the customer base would be involved... while 100% of the customer base would be affected by a bit of an FPS boost all around. Intel/Nomad
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2010.07.11 06:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Clansworth Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia They don't even acknowledge the server issues. Might as well let your subscription run out. That's nonsense. They HAVE acknowledged the server side issues.. they've BEEN acknowledging them since the nodes started getting overcrowded in 2005. They have made massive improvements in that time. The fact that Jita is survivable at this point is a testament to that. I had higher expectations of eve players than this, but to reiterate: 1. Why does a release about them finding some problems in the client meant that they AREN'T working on the server as well? CCP operated as many connected teams, each with different areas of influence. The fact is that there is no improvement for the server. If they really are working on it or not does not change that. Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame. They were so proud about their new stress testing framework and they did all these mass tests yet still: grid loading failures do happen. One would think 6 months is enough to take a complete walkthrough of the code in question and compare it line by line to the Apocrypha revision but apparently they still haven't found a solution (or maybe even the problem). Originally by: Clansworth 2. Even if fleet fights grew in size to 2000 people, that would mean at that point, about 0.6% of the customer base would be involved... while 100% of the customer base would be affected by a bit of an FPS boost all around. Right now they are struggling to support fleet fights with 300 people in it. And that little FPS boost does not really help the player who is not in a fleet fight. What good is it to have 86 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync) instead of 78 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync). And who even thinks about freeing 80MB and taking a performance penalty for that? It's 2010, even laptops have at least 2GB now. That's just ridiculous. The whole uselessness of this comes all from the point that the average highsec mission runner does not really profit from these improvements and that fleet fights have more problems from the server side. So yes, theoretically it's great to improve client performance but it does not improve the game experience as much as you think it would. It was the same with the "TQ Level Up". "800% more network capacity between nodes" sounds like one hell of an improvement but did it improve the game experience? Did it reduce lag? NO, because it was not a limiting factor! Unless you think memory consumption and client FPS is the limiting factor for game experience improving them will not help you (much). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig's_law_of_the_minimum
Taladool	Posted - 2010.07.11 14:37:00 - [107] Originally by: Libin Herobi Originally by: Clansworth Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia ... .... The fact is that there is no improvement for the server. If they really are working on it or not does not change that. Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame. They were so proud about their new stress testing framework and they did all these mass tests yet still: grid loading failures do happen. One would think 6 months is enough to take a complete walkthrough of the code in question and compare it line by line to the Apocrypha revision but apparently they still haven't found a solution (or maybe even the problem). Your both right, there has been a lot of new upgrades, and server software improvements. on the flip side there have been a lot of setbacks since Dominion, and rightly you are ok to be upset with that, however this is not the thread your looking to complain in, these devs posting in this tread have nothing to do with your server side software. Stop trying to find any place with devs in it talking about the programming aspect of the game and stuff your OMG FLEET LAG whingeing into it. CCP knows their server isn't doing a great job, CCP knows there are issues and are trying to fix them, if 6 months is all it would take it would be fixed and working fine by now. If for some reason you think you can do better then put up or shut up. Quote: Originally by: Clansworth ... Right now they are struggling to support fleet fights with 300 people in it. And that little FPS boost does not really help the player who is not in a fleet fight. What good is it to have 86 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync) instead of 78 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync). And who even thinks about freeing 80MB and taking a performance penalty for that? It's 2010, even laptops have at least 2GB now. That's just ridiculous. The whole uselessness of this comes all from the point that the average highsec mission runner does not really profit from these improvements and that fleet fights have more problems from the server side. So yes, theoretically it's great to improve client performance but it does not improve the game experience as much as you think it would. It was the same with the "TQ Level Up". "800% more network capacity between nodes" sounds like one hell of an improvement but did it improve the game experience? Did it reduce lag? NO, because it was not a limiting factor! Unless you think memory consumption and client FPS is the limiting factor for game experience improving them will not help you (much). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig's_law_of_the_minimum You do know there are quite a few players who do play with lower end pc's right? and that every little FPS matters to them. While it might not effect everyone the same, every little bit helps. You can't justify not fixing and improving the client just because the server is lagging. Its not like tossing the client gfx team onto the server work will help the server work get done any faster or improve the speed with which the work gets done. What is ridiculous is you seem to be under the assumption that just because a few more fps doesn't matter to you, that it wont matter to others. Stop being a OMG WTF LAG tool, and find the right posts to put this crap in. If I was the devs that wrote the blog, and read all this crap, at this point I wouldn't bother writing anything else for your snobs, really, the server lags, FINE, Get over it, or vote with your feet and walk. Hosting websites, pay in isk, cheap prices, fast service. check us out
Blatantly Obvious	Posted - 2010.07.11 15:18:00 - [108] Obviously these kinds of changes are 1) cool, 2) needed, and 3) show that CCP is actively working at improving the game. But I also want to say that this was a very clearly written explanation of some highly technical stuff. Awesome work!
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:31:00 - [109] Originally by: Taladool Stop trying to find any place with devs in it talking about the programming aspect of the game and stuff your OMG FLEET LAG whingeing into it. CCP knows their server isn't doing a great job, CCP knows there are issues and are trying to fix them, if 6 months is all it would take it would be fixed and working fine by now. If for some reason you think you can do better then put up or shut up. .... What is ridiculous is you seem to be under the assumption that just because a few more fps doesn't matter to you, that it wont matter to others. Stop being a OMG WTF LAG tool, and find the right posts to put this crap in. If I was the devs that wrote the blog, and read all this crap, at this point I wouldn't bother writing anything else for your snobs, really, the server lags, FINE, Get over it, or vote with your feet and walk. Let's get this out of the way first. This is a fact: if 80Meg of memory REALLY matters to you, you are in such a small minority of players you should be ignored. Your machine is beyond obsolete. What's next? CCP trying to support people playing on a 386? If CCP "KNOWS" their server isn't doing too well, they are doing a mighty fine job of keeping a lid on it. Go find me the appropriate thread for my rage. The one where CCP acknowledges the ongoing server issues of the past few months and tells us what they are trying to do to fix it. The only thing i hear out of them is asking me to use my free time to help them on the sisi server... and in the months that we have been doing that this is the only thread to come of it. Months of sisi testing for some client side tweaks? Please god tell me no, but we don't know do we? Thus our posting. You getting it yet???? put up or shut up? lol, tough guy internet alert. your suggestion that unless i'm willing to go to CCP andf fix the problem myself i should shut up? LOL "if i were a dev and read this i wouldn't bother writing anything"(paraphrasing) You just keep outdoing yourself. Are you an adult? Have you had any dealings with the business world or just the internets? We are customers. Go out into the business world and see how well your business does when upset customers come to you upset with your product and you say: *"boy those people are angry! i'm just going to stop talking to them entirely."* See how well your business does. The only thing you typed that made any sense what-so-ever was that we had a right to be angry. Originally by: Taladool and rightly you are ok to be upset with that (hint: this is where you should have stopped.) These are forums, where we voice our opinions. As p/o customers this is what we do and where we do it. If you want to tell someone to shut up, go yell in a mirror. Your marching around like some wanna-be mod that can't delete posts, telling people to go away. The only person being unconstructive here is you and your white knighting. -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.[/i]
Taladool	Posted - 2010.07.11 22:22:00 - [110] All Quotes have been reduced to one or two sentences, to provide more space for text. and provide context to the comments made there after. Quote: Let's get this out of the way first. This is a fact: if 80Meg of memory REALLY matters to you They said they freed up 80Meg of memory, that was only by removing the loading of the map. That doesn't include the other improvements that have sped up the clients FPS itself, fixed some if not all of the ghost ships on the overview and in space. I don't know about you but that seems like a good thing to me. It is not that uncommon (read the avg fps) to find PC's that only render 20 to 30 fps in fleet fights, so anything that improves that just a little bit matters. Quote: If CCP "KNOWS" their server isn't doing too well While they haven't been posted yet the CSM has hinted towards this being a major topic at the summit, and you can most likely expect to find more information in the minutes. You could also wait for the dev blog about server lag, CCP Explorer told us about in post 12 of this thread. Even past that, CCP is holding the mass testing to try and figure out what is going wrong. This is where put up or shut up applied Quote: Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame. They are doing the best they can, if you think that is lame, then go show them how to do it, or quit pretending like you have any idea what the issue is and how long it should take to fix. Quote: "if i were a dev and read this i wouldn't bother writing anything"(paraphrasing) In case you missed it, and I'm sure you have, this is a dev blog, and CCP isn't required to blog anything to us, they don't have to tell us one damn thing about the game, the server, what they plan on doing, or anything else, and a good deal of time I'm sure they don't just to avoid flames like this. Plus you took my words out of context with your (paraphrasing) I said "If I was the dev that wrote this blog, I wouldn't bother writing another one", and why would s/he? So people like you can flame them about problems that they have nothing to do with? How does that statement make me any less of an adult? You mean it would be childish to post a blog talking about client side graphics, have everyone flame me for the server teams issues, then decide not to post any more dev blogs talking about client side fixes, which the majority of the people in this thread are ignoring because of server issues I have nothing to do with? That is not being childish, that's a fairly simple conclusion to come to. Quote: We are customers. That isn't what I said, I said I wouldn't post another blog for you snobs, its simple really, Yes, you are customers, but you agreed to this service when you clicked accept on that eula screen. If you don't like the service your getting, leave, no one is forcing you to stay. Quote: If you want to tell someone to shut up, go yell in a mirror. You mean telling people to stop posting server lag crap in a client lag thread? You should be thanking them for the fix's, not *** about something this dev team has nothing to do with. Its not very constructive to * in the wrong thread, you notice CCP Explorer stopped posting as soon as people starting *ing about server lag in their client lag thread? Its because this dev team has nothing to add to the conversation, kind of because its not their area of expertise. oh and, you want a thread to * in, try the comments for this dev blog here or waiting for CCP's devblog about server lag, they told you would be coming. I hardly said the mods should shut you up, I simply said there is no point ***ing about it here, it wont help anything. Don't worry though you will get your server lag thread soon Im sure Hosting websites, pay in isk, cheap prices, fast service. check us out
Thorir Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 02:58:00 - [111] Thanks for the update. I think the server side lag is the problem for most people though. Hope you get some progress improving it soon. The fleet fight lag is affecting alot of players. Looking at the Dominion trailer is kind of embarrassing. Wish someone would change it so it shows real player experience =) But you probably have alot of people working on it for more than 6 months now. Waiting eagerly for improvents so I might actually undock.
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:05:00 - [112] This thread is called "Tyrannis Performance Improvements" as far as I know the server is an important part of that. You appear to have some difficulties understanding what those 80MB less memory consumption does. It makes no difference if you have 300 or 380 MB of free memory, this will not give you any additional FPS. This will only improve your performance if you exceed the actual physical memory size of your computer. Because then your system needs to swap memory to your hard disk (which is much slower than memory) and thus a performance hit will occur. As long as this is not the case using less memory (which would reduce the amount of swapping necessary) is really irrelevant. Quote: They are doing the best they can, if you think that is lame, then go show them how to do it, or quit pretending like you have any idea what the issue is and how long it should take to fix. I never pretended I know where or what the problem is (unless you can quote the relevant part). It might be difficult to understand but you don't have to be a professional cook to notice a soup is cold or an architect to see a bridge broke down or a police officer to see someone drives without lights at night. You can spot those mistakes because they are completely obvious. One full release cycle with no tangile improvement is just as obvious as the mistakes mentioned above. I said 6 months is probably enough to do a complete walkthrough of the relevant code. Please show me how this is not the case in your opinion. Quote: Plus you took my words out of context with your (paraphrasing) I said "If I was the dev that wrote this blog, I wouldn't bother writing another one", and why would s/he? So people like you can flame them about problems that they have nothing to do with? Because it's part of their job? They don't do this (just) because they are nice. They do this because they get paid for this. Quote: How does that statement make me any less of an adult? You mean it would be childish to post a blog talking about client side graphics, have everyone flame me for the server teams issues, then decide not to post any more dev blogs talking about client side fixes, which the majority of the people in this thread are ignoring because of server issues I have nothing to do with? That is not being childish, that's a fairly simple conclusion to come to. You saying "I would stop doing that" is like saying "I'd refuse to do my job". Actually that kinda makes you look fairly childish.
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:41:00 - [113] I felt guilty I participated only in a couple of test fights. Now I feel stupid I wasted my time on this. Thanks CCP.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.13 03:03:00 - [114] Hey ccp, I know you guys are busy and i had some questions a few pages back, if you have the chance to answer them that woudl be great. To everyone else, spreading hate and whining, thowing fits isnt going to get you anything. It's like the little 4 year old in the store crying for candy, doesnt work like that. These client and server devs are already under a ton of pressure and stress as is trying to sort out all the data and fix it. so...... CUT THEM SOME ****EN SLACK! They are doing a good job and are working hard.
Tyby KANTAI HIKAGE White Noise.	Posted - 2010.07.13 08:39:00 - [115] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Lumy I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too? The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results. so, let me see if i get this right, 8 months after dominion, this is all you guys have??? like nothingreally right now, only the "soon" crap?
Hydraxia	Posted - 2010.07.13 11:31:00 - [116] Usefull blog, Thanks!
Corin Nebulon eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.07.14 12:37:00 - [117] First of all thanks for the blog, it helps to understand what the dev's are currently working on. And at the same time raises a lot of questions. First of all, why is the bug that was discovered in the beginning of the year and caused already small gangs to lag out whole server nodes, not fixed yet? It is not funny if you join a fleet and after 8 jumps you stop loading systems. The server isn't answering any calls for hours, stuck petititions are ignored (because of large fleet fights) and the evening is basically ruined. When then an the next morning you log back in, you find yourself in your clone. Apperently the server never recognized the client to be offline. The ship stayed in space until a lone interdictor came by and decided to remove the ship manually. So after a evening of doing nothing but some isk making on an alt and listening to a lot of angry voices on teamspeak you find out that even your ship is destroyed and you will need to invest some more time to make up the lose. Seriously, fps increses are great. But on the other hand they dont really cause much of an inconvenience. But even if this server sided issues are rare, they affect a lot of people. Having issues with fps isn't going to stop that many ppl from playing eve. At least it didn't stop me. But the above descriped scenario can easily cause ppl to simply stop playing. There is barly something more frustrating than being literally excluded from the eve cluster and getting your ship blown up. So pls if possible switch some resources to handle issues on the server side. Otherwise the whole game will become less fun for a huge part of your playerbase.
Allen Ramses Caldari Zombicidal Mania Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.07.15 01:23:00 - [118] Quote: Stuff about faulty resource handling Stuff about faulty texture memory allocation Stuff about faulty T3 ship rendering Stuff about faulty garbage collection Stuff about faulty overview parsing You don't say! You guys verified these problematic causes only 6 months after the release of Dominion? That's a quick reaction time indeed! Considering it took several members of the community almost two weeks to do the same thing, it seems the 13 fold increase in time means a 13 fold increase in QA verification, right? But it was too bad it was all dismissed as an ATi driver bug, and nothing else was taken seriously. I'd like to offer a suggestion to CCP. If your playerbase is telling you that white boxes and lines on ATI cards is a symptom of a bug rather than a bug itself, you might want to acknowledge that possibility rather than deliberately ignoring it. So, it was identified 6 months after the problem appeared, and it was fixed in a matter of days. The important part is that it was fixed, and not that it could have been fixed 5 months prior, right? Me being able to predict an "I told you so" moment is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. CCP stepped up to the plate and got the job done. Better late than early, right CCP? Good show, CCP. Good show. You're winner! ____________ I'd make a forum signature that didn't suck, but I'm restricted by a character limit that does.
Ama Zing	Posted - 2010.07.15 11:29:00 - [119] Well - since Tyrannis I feel very ôtyrannizedô by the bad stability! I lost tons of drones and I never cried! If you change major rendering mechanics, why don't you use the technical expertise you collect from singularity before throwing the paying community into cold water? My machine freezes by only hovering the mouse over the ôwrong stuffô! But I guess you ignore that for 6 months as well ....
Apollo Gabriel Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.28 21:47:00 - [120] Nice blog, I'll admit I haven't read the three pages of posts, but I am wondering if we will get an update to the blog? it is 3 weeks later now... best, Apollo CCP Commit to Excellence by September 1st 2010 Don't let the trolls, keep you from your goals.
ViolenTUK Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.06 21:27:00 - [121] Performance improvement? Performance has not improved.
Fiberton StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2010.08.07 04:08:00 - [122] Lets Cut the bull the overall lag cannot be fixed unless AMD or INTEL come out with an processor core that is atleast 3 times too a spiffy 5 times faster in the near future. Maybe in a decade or more. So what else can be done. O yea write a new interpreter for stackless python that can actually use multithreading as the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock) is serial execution. Why is that some of you ponder ? Hard to do? Will never happen. Even if CCP wrote it ( Would take a bit amount of money if its even possible. They would have to give it away for free to the stackless community. Never gonna happen. See the scripts can not churn any faster without more processing power or more cores if it was multithreaded period. Can CCP PLEASE for the love of isk stop telling hald truths. You give me a headache watching how you lead these sheep on. So what is the other option ? Using a new scripting language? EVE 2.0 DX11 and a new scripting language that can do multithreading ? Now that would take a hell of some isk to make.. Good luck guys "I seek Understanding in a world of 1`s & 0`s. I seek oneness in a world of chaos."
ORJI	Posted - 2010.08.07 17:29:00 - [123] Please fix or at least reduce the lag/crashes in eVe. In the meantime, i'd like at least a month's worth of training time.... Work with us here cause it ain't cheap being a capsuleer.
stationmonkey	Posted - 2010.08.07 17:45:00 - [124] Originally by: Batolemaeus Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/07/2010 22:11:21 Nice Blog, bonus points for including graphs. Also, you got balls. It seems. Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too? Also, will you also look into the abysmal UI rendering performance in the future? The difference in fps between a heavily filtered ui and no ui whatsoever is over 95% for me (going up from <1 fps to ~60 fps just by pressing ctrl+f9, even with drone brackets filtered out and effects down to a minimum is just wrong) ibc A devblog on whats wrong with dominion?.. Thats everywhere here, This is all an update its where Dominion is headed. I am fairly certain they are working on solutions for all the issues that have been brought to their attention. Its implementation will likely be meant to fix the known issues. As for your interface issue, if you haven't already updated your drivers for your video card and your Motherboard, you should start there. Then go to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en and download the DirecX runtime and let it put all the DirecX code thats currently written and registered as DirectX code on your system. And try turning your interval setting to immediate with the interface settings. Hopefully your troll is quelled. And remember "There is such thing as a stupid question." Stationmonkey Fly true, Strike sure, and Keep up!
Jagged Bluetooth	Posted - 2010.08.07 17:47:00 - [125] argh !!! Eve crashes again.. we have cans full of abc's in the grav and can we get on again?....no chance. This becoming more than frustrating...EVE go look at blizzard or the guys that do guild wars.....they don't even have a DT and never have these problems. Roll on Diablo 3 that's all I can say. Tests I don't see why I should pay to be a beta tester !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sort it out arghhhh
Grullkin	Posted - 2010.08.07 17:55:00 - [126] Blizzard also has DTs. But the guys who hadn't played WoW yet don't know about it. So the only thing we could do is waiting, chill out and play other games during the DT ^^
Tigresia Rexia Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.07 17:59:00 - [127] Im a bit surprised that it hasnt really occured to anyony yet - but here goes. Perhaps... they got 2 dev departments ? - 1 doing server side, 1 doing player side, and the devblog we seen is from the ones dealing in Client side? So - if the client side bug hunters are reporting, what would be the chanses of server issues be listed.. prolly zero.. Having 2 dev departments would make perfect sense.. pretty much the same u do in other companies.. then again - perhaps im wrong. Having a crappy computer, im glad Dev ppl also uses time to optimize the game playerside - making this a enjoyeble for me, and not just those with super-computers. - Tiger

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