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Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:23:00 - [61] Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:23:00 - [62] Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra
Tas Devil	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:23:00 - [63] And if I may add ... CCP is absolutly cynical in its handling of tech 2 components prices.... because they introduced POS to try and lower tech 2 components costs and hence potentially tech 2.... Yet seeing this will not happen very soon ...they are now getting agents to flood the market with tech 2 components...drops of 500-1000 tech components being common now... so I bet you they will turn around and claim that POS do work in a few weeks...when all tech 2 components will have dropped in value as the markets are flooded... The reality is these tech 2 agent drops are killing POS at the source by undermining whatever little economic sense the whole tech 2 component manufacturing chain has...or had... Sorry but there is a reason countries don't give their economic policy decisions to software programers and developpers... perhaps its time CCP employ an economist before they further destroy the player economy with such dratic intervention...
Tas Devil	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:23:00 - [64] And if I may add ... CCP is absolutly cynical in its handling of tech 2 components prices.... because they introduced POS to try and lower tech 2 components costs and hence potentially tech 2.... Yet seeing this will not happen very soon ...they are now getting agents to flood the market with tech 2 components...drops of 500-1000 tech components being common now... so I bet you they will turn around and claim that POS do work in a few weeks...when all tech 2 components will have dropped in value as the markets are flooded... The reality is these tech 2 agent drops are killing POS at the source by undermining whatever little economic sense the whole tech 2 component manufacturing chain has...or had... Sorry but there is a reason countries don't give their economic policy decisions to software programers and developpers... perhaps its time CCP employ an economist before they further destroy the player economy with such dratic intervention...
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:26:00 - [65] Edited by: Discorporation on 23/12/2004 12:28:50 What interests me is that these things are T I basic towers. The prospect of an XL Tachyon Beam II excites me to no end. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:26:00 - [66] Edited by: Discorporation on 23/12/2004 12:28:50 What interests me is that these things are T I basic towers. The prospect of an XL Tachyon Beam II excites me to no end. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Inzidious	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:27:00 - [67] Get rid of the insane amounts of T2 components being handed out like candy by agents, and we might have a booming buiseness. This will crush the T2 industry at first, but POS owners will soon see the potential market, and make an effort to make it work.
Inzidious	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:27:00 - [68] Get rid of the insane amounts of T2 components being handed out like candy by agents, and we might have a booming buiseness. This will crush the T2 industry at first, but POS owners will soon see the potential market, and make an effort to make it work.
Shintai	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:29:00 - [69] Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Shintai	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:29:00 - [70] Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Tas Devil And if I may add ... CCP is absolutly cynical in its handling of tech 2 components prices.... because they introduced POS to try and lower tech 2 components costs and hence potentially tech 2.... Yet seeing this will not happen very soon ...they are now getting agents to flood the market with tech 2 components...drops of 500-1000 tech components being common now... so I bet you they will turn around and claim that POS do work in a few weeks...when all tech 2 components will have dropped in value as the markets are flooded... The reality is these tech 2 agent drops are killing POS at the source by undermining whatever little economic sense the whole tech 2 component manufacturing chain has...or had... Sorry but there is a reason countries don't give their economic policy decisions to software programers and developpers... perhaps its time CCP employ an economist before they further destroy the player economy with such dratic intervention... Totaly wrong, the market need to be flooded with t2 components, it will bring the price of components down to a realistic value. 200k for a Graviton reactor is not a realistic price (just as an example). It will need to get worse before it get better. You need to take the whole picture into view, not just that little flick in the corner. And a few weeks is to narrow time frame, try a few months. Then you will see a bigger impact of the POS's. At time being its just feeble baby steps. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:31:00 - [72] Originally by: Tas Devil And if I may add ... CCP is absolutly cynical in its handling of tech 2 components prices.... because they introduced POS to try and lower tech 2 components costs and hence potentially tech 2.... Yet seeing this will not happen very soon ...they are now getting agents to flood the market with tech 2 components...drops of 500-1000 tech components being common now... so I bet you they will turn around and claim that POS do work in a few weeks...when all tech 2 components will have dropped in value as the markets are flooded... The reality is these tech 2 agent drops are killing POS at the source by undermining whatever little economic sense the whole tech 2 component manufacturing chain has...or had... Sorry but there is a reason countries don't give their economic policy decisions to software programers and developpers... perhaps its time CCP employ an economist before they further destroy the player economy with such dratic intervention... Totaly wrong, the market need to be flooded with t2 components, it will bring the price of components down to a realistic value. 200k for a Graviton reactor is not a realistic price (just as an example). It will need to get worse before it get better. You need to take the whole picture into view, not just that little flick in the corner. And a few weeks is to narrow time frame, try a few months. Then you will see a bigger impact of the POS's. At time being its just feeble baby steps. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:32:00 - [73] Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Why do you need to do it all at once? Heard about rotation before? Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Why do you need to do it all at once? Heard about rotation before? Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:33:00 - [75] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. That's right. So our POS is at the bottom of the food chain. You'll find lots of refinery POS's out there in the same position as ours with moon minerals being churned out with nowhere to go. The trick is to set up your own pos and get the moon minerals from the bottom end refineries to do simple reactions. Then you sell your stuff further on. Whether the cost of the moon mins and the price you charge for simple reaction products means you make a profit depends on who you sell your simple reactions too. But I know that our POS would probably release our moon mins for a spot of POS fuel.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. That's right. So our POS is at the bottom of the food chain. You'll find lots of refinery POS's out there in the same position as ours with moon minerals being churned out with nowhere to go. The trick is to set up your own pos and get the moon minerals from the bottom end refineries to do simple reactions. Then you sell your stuff further on. Whether the cost of the moon mins and the price you charge for simple reaction products means you make a profit depends on who you sell your simple reactions too. But I know that our POS would probably release our moon mins for a spot of POS fuel.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:36:00 - [77] Originally by: Inzidious Get rid of the insane amounts of T2 components being handed out like candy by agents, and we might have a booming buiseness. This will crush the T2 industry at first, but POS owners will soon see the potential market, and make an effort to make it work. Again, I completely agree but we've got to be careful that the final cost of tech2 components from POS's to the end user aren't more than now otherwise the whole thing will just become inflation city for the people buying tech2 comps. Also there won't be that many producers of any particular tech2 component so there's a serious danger of a monopoly. Even with all the tech2 components being flooded onto the market by agent runners, the cost is still many times over the refine value.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:36:00 - [78] Originally by: Inzidious Get rid of the insane amounts of T2 components being handed out like candy by agents, and we might have a booming buiseness. This will crush the T2 industry at first, but POS owners will soon see the potential market, and make an effort to make it work. Again, I completely agree but we've got to be careful that the final cost of tech2 components from POS's to the end user aren't more than now otherwise the whole thing will just become inflation city for the people buying tech2 comps. Also there won't be that many producers of any particular tech2 component so there's a serious danger of a monopoly. Even with all the tech2 components being flooded onto the market by agent runners, the cost is still many times over the refine value.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:37:00 - [79] Tas Devil, your information is poor and your attitude leaves a lot to be desired. Instead of asking for instructions on a plate, maybe you should spend more time looking into methods of making them profitable yourself. At a guess, it will involve cooperation with humans at some point. So if I were you I'd drop the 'tell me or you're a liar' approach. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:37:00 - [80] Tas Devil, your information is poor and your attitude leaves a lot to be desired. Instead of asking for instructions on a plate, maybe you should spend more time looking into methods of making them profitable yourself. At a guess, it will involve cooperation with humans at some point. So if I were you I'd drop the 'tell me or you're a liar' approach. .
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:37:00 - [81] Originally by: Kerosene That's right. So our POS is at the bottom of the food chain. You'll find lots of refinery POS's out there in the same position as ours with moon minerals being churned out with nowhere to go. The trick is to set up your own pos and get the moon minerals from the bottom end refineries to do simple reactions. Then you sell your stuff further on. Whether the cost of the moon mins and the price you charge for simple reaction products means you make a profit depends on who you sell your simple reactions too. But I know that our POS would probably release our moon mins for a spot of POS fuel. Finally someone who gets it ;-) Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:37:00 - [82] Originally by: Kerosene That's right. So our POS is at the bottom of the food chain. You'll find lots of refinery POS's out there in the same position as ours with moon minerals being churned out with nowhere to go. The trick is to set up your own pos and get the moon minerals from the bottom end refineries to do simple reactions. Then you sell your stuff further on. Whether the cost of the moon mins and the price you charge for simple reaction products means you make a profit depends on who you sell your simple reactions too. But I know that our POS would probably release our moon mins for a spot of POS fuel. Finally someone who gets it ;-) Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:39:00 - [83] Mission runners has nothing to do with it. The cost of T2 components made by the POS will always be reflected by the cost of running the POS itself. If it costs too much to run a POS, the T2 components will reflect likewise, independent of agent runners. The bottomline---for the good of the entire EVE community---is not to make POS owners rich, but to proliferate T2 technology and bring them down to lower, more reasonable prices. We need to bring down the costs of POS operation down, period. Bring the operating costs of POS down, there will be more POS. This will increase the supply of T2 components, and T2 ship and item prices will go down as well. And once T2 items and ships go down, there will be much more widespread adoption. It all works in a loop. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:39:00 - [84] Mission runners has nothing to do with it. The cost of T2 components made by the POS will always be reflected by the cost of running the POS itself. If it costs too much to run a POS, the T2 components will reflect likewise, independent of agent runners. The bottomline---for the good of the entire EVE community---is not to make POS owners rich, but to proliferate T2 technology and bring them down to lower, more reasonable prices. We need to bring down the costs of POS operation down, period. Bring the operating costs of POS down, there will be more POS. This will increase the supply of T2 components, and T2 ship and item prices will go down as well. And once T2 items and ships go down, there will be much more widespread adoption. It all works in a loop. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Shintai	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:41:00 - [85] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Why do you need to do it all at once? Heard about rotation before? Tell me the reaction cycle for simple and complex reactions. And I think you change your mind about this. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Shintai	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:41:00 - [86] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 23/12/2004 12:30:41 Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 23/12/2004 12:24:08 Originally by: Tas Devil It would indeed be nice if those that claim to be making 'tonnes' of isk from their POS had the maturity to share some of their calculations and results ... it seems only those that claim that POS are not profitable or even remotedly economically viable are the ones backing these claims with serious calculations and data... those that supposedly make isk with them have, it seems, very little to back up their claims... Perhaps those claiming to make loads of isk with their POS are the same ones constantly trolling the forums claiming to have perfect PVP setups ? and to deliver critical hits of 1500hp damage every few shots ? Phase 1. Get POS, 0.0 system with high end ores and an intensive refinery or 2. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. Profit. Now this is the important part. All us deep space corps maintaining a profitable station are also producing moon minerals! And we've got no use for them! So guess what you compounds reactor folks get from the people you're trying to remove from this thread?. Seriously you need to see that the deep space refinery POS's will not want to move their moon mins all the way up to empire so find someone selling moon mins, I think you'll find they are uber cheap from them. Selling Thulium btw atm. Contact either me or Tal'Ra You forgot 1 tiny part here. A POS can only have 1 reactor, since you need silo¦s too. So without a simple reaction everything you mine is useless garbage. Since you gonna need a whole extra POS for that. And anyone with an intensive refinery cant do it notmatter what. Why do you need to do it all at once? Heard about rotation before? Tell me the reaction cycle for simple and complex reactions. And I think you change your mind about this. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Tas Devil	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:42:00 - [87] Did it occur to you that there is a much simpler way to make tech 2 components given the fact agents drop such components so easily ? Rather then bother with all the tech 2 components food chain that you claim is in its infancy and doing baby steps... large agent drops of tech 2 components means empire dwellers are now refining these for the advanced materials they contain...with a 100% efficiency too...all you need to do then is stick the advanced materials right back in with the proper BPO for tech 2 goods...and you have yourself whatever tech 2 components you need...using agent drops as the fuel to your little business... Now if you tell me this is not going to undermine POS... and the whole economic viability of the tech 2 component food chain .... to me agent drops is not a necessary evil to lower cost of tech 2 components... its intervention at its worst form ...without having given any thought to the consequences...
Tas Devil	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:42:00 - [88] Did it occur to you that there is a much simpler way to make tech 2 components given the fact agents drop such components so easily ? Rather then bother with all the tech 2 components food chain that you claim is in its infancy and doing baby steps... large agent drops of tech 2 components means empire dwellers are now refining these for the advanced materials they contain...with a 100% efficiency too...all you need to do then is stick the advanced materials right back in with the proper BPO for tech 2 goods...and you have yourself whatever tech 2 components you need...using agent drops as the fuel to your little business... Now if you tell me this is not going to undermine POS... and the whole economic viability of the tech 2 component food chain .... to me agent drops is not a necessary evil to lower cost of tech 2 components... its intervention at its worst form ...without having given any thought to the consequences...
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:44:00 - [89] Originally by: Kerosene Again, I completely agree but we've got to be careful that the final cost of tech2 components from POS's to the end user aren't more than now otherwise the whole thing will just become inflation city for the people buying tech2 comps. Also there won't be that many producers of any particular tech2 component so there's a serious danger of a monopoly. Even with all the tech2 components being flooded onto the market by agent runners, the cost is still many times over the refine value. I know a lot of people who are sitting on mountains of t2 comps just waiting for prices to go up, not down. People who want to do the production process of t2 comps through a POS need to realize that todays prices isn't realistic at all. Reactors for 200k+, microprocessors for 70k? Forget that. How many buy orders out there do you think gobble up drops from agent runners daily, that are sold back to producers in whole packages? TONS, it help keep prices high. Many agent runners just sell to best buy orders to make the ISK there and then rather than put up sell orders. I shift millions worth of components daily, do I make a nice profit? YES, would a decrease in prices make my revenues go down? Not likely. WHY? Because lower the prices, up's the demand and you can still maintain a good revenue because of it. A big problem is the greed of the players and their willingness to change the system as well. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2004.12.23 12:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Kerosene Again, I completely agree but we've got to be careful that the final cost of tech2 components from POS's to the end user aren't more than now otherwise the whole thing will just become inflation city for the people buying tech2 comps. Also there won't be that many producers of any particular tech2 component so there's a serious danger of a monopoly. Even with all the tech2 components being flooded onto the market by agent runners, the cost is still many times over the refine value. I know a lot of people who are sitting on mountains of t2 comps just waiting for prices to go up, not down. People who want to do the production process of t2 comps through a POS need to realize that todays prices isn't realistic at all. Reactors for 200k+, microprocessors for 70k? Forget that. How many buy orders out there do you think gobble up drops from agent runners daily, that are sold back to producers in whole packages? TONS, it help keep prices high. Many agent runners just sell to best buy orders to make the ISK there and then rather than put up sell orders. I shift millions worth of components daily, do I make a nice profit? YES, would a decrease in prices make my revenues go down? Not likely. WHY? Because lower the prices, up's the demand and you can still maintain a good revenue because of it. A big problem is the greed of the players and their willingness to change the system as well. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php

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