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As Requested. 102m effective isk/hour , 86m real isk/hour

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Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.15 03:00:00 - [31] King aires, the eLP is an important definition to understand, because lots of calculation is made to get this number. For example, on one of the popular caldari items, it can be sold on contract for 104m currently, which is 102.5m minus broker fee's and accounting lv 4 sales tax. To make five (102.5m items), which generates 512.5m I need 160m of... Lowest bulk WTS (important!!) insignia cost of making the items, PLUS, isk cost of making the 5 item in the LP store. So my isk profit is 512.5m - 160m = 352.5m and approx 2.5m worth of ores. = 350m (simplification is awesome) Now the LP cost to make said item averages at 30K each This means i used 150K LP to make 5 of the items. 350m / 150K LP is abit more then 2K isk per LP. Thats why i used and eLP of (LP earning)*2000, which is a decent approximation of LP value! including all the costs of making the items. Why lowest WTS? so that i can remotely buy while missioning! and use RF freight to move my items back and forth!!, 3m cost is a very good isk to sacrifice, as i will take 0 seconds to move my items around from jita to my place. RF freight also charges 450K to move from station to station! that means rather then wasting 2 minutes to transport my BP's, i can ask them to do it for me! the costs are insignificant! Remote contracting is used to sell items, and remote BPC production to make items, i can spend almost no isk doing these stuff (although some times i still carry the prints myself). Good luck! ^ btw to the above.... WHAT? my head is starting to hurt again
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.08.15 04:32:00 - [32] Courier contracts are the Truth. Most mission runners could learn quite a bit about efficiency by dabbling in trading. In fact, with the remote trading skills, you can easily do both at the same time for truly epic profits.
Estella Vance	Posted - 2010.08.15 09:48:00 - [33] Very impressive, indeed. Not sure, if I could go that hardcore on speed and efficiency, but using trading mechanics, to augment profit, is a neat way to increase missioning isk/h.
jona1	Posted - 2010.08.15 13:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Frozean King aires, the eLP is an important definition to understand, because lots of calculation is made to get this number. For example, on one of the popular caldari items, it can be sold on contract for 104m currently, which is 102.5m minus broker fee's and accounting lv 4 sales tax. To make five (102.5m items), which generates 512.5m Are you farming the tags for this item?,did you include this in your misson times
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.15 13:31:00 - [35] Edited by: Frozean on 15/08/2010 13:31:52 I just buy using remote trading skills in Jita or Rens. Then after i have around 500m-1b worth of tags, ill use courrier contracts to bring the items to me. You also use courrier contracts to bring the LP store items to the market hubs, and use remote contracting / remote daytrading to sell your items while still missioning.
King Aires Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.15 13:42:00 - [36] Edited by: King Aires on 15/08/2010 13:42:35 Originally by: Frozean Edited by: Frozean on 15/08/2010 13:31:52 I just buy using remote trading skills in Jita or Rens. Then after i have around 500m-1b worth of tags, ill use courrier contracts to bring the items to me. You also use courrier contracts to bring the LP store items to the market hubs, and use remote contracting / remote daytrading to sell your items while still missioning. How much are those courier contracts costing you, are they included in your eLP-Isk and how many times have people opened them, seen what they are and stole your bil worth of tags? The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
raukosen	Posted - 2010.08.15 14:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Lady Aja what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk" still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account. Really? In what? Torp Golem?
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.15 15:09:00 - [38] King aires, courrier contracts from RF Freight offers up to 1b colloteral and 860k Space. I use those to transport all my loot (with a golem, its so easy to accumulate a lot), and Courrier costs around 2.25m per 5 jumps, which is insanely insignificant, because you are hauling 1b-1.2b worth of tags, loot, and stuff. Using remote selling you can remotely sell your junk at jita/rens prices or reprocess it later to sell for minerals. The alternative is to haul yourself. it takes 20 minutes to go 5+5 jumps hauling, and this is a lost of 30m+ isk mission running.
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services	Posted - 2010.08.15 17:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Lady Aja what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk" still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account. and it never...ever...ever should ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.15 21:34:00 - [40] There is no where in this thread that say i have two accounts. I only have one, and only one account. I know there are people who dont read and just troll at first read, but this is rediculous. No wonder CCP never takes any lag problem seriously. Probably only one person is having the problem (and its probably his computer problem) and 10,000 other players are just beating the bush for the fun of it

stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.15 21:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Frozean There is no where in this thread that say i have two accounts. I only have one, and only one account. I know there are people who dont read and just troll at first read, but this is rediculous. IMO, it was pretty easy to mistakenly read that you were dual boxing with two ships. Anyone who actually completely read your posts should have realized that you were running one account and were switching between flying a Golem and a Tengu, depending on the mission. Even so, you should have been much, much, much, clearer about this in order to avoid the onslaught of people who accidentally or intentionally thought you were dual boxing. Unfortunately, defensive posting or otherwise idiot-proofing your posts is a necessary skill in this day and age. To get back on topic, I'm impressed with what you have done. Using RF to minimize the downtime of moving things to/from market is just brilliant. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2010.08.15 22:50:00 - [42] So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.15 23:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation? Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2010.08.15 23:28:00 - [44] I've read the post. I don't see any reference to Red Frog in his post -only his reply to king ares. I don't imagine Red Frog is available in every mission system - and not everyone is 5 jumps from Jita.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.15 23:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn I've read the post. I don't see any reference to Red Frog in his post -only his reply to king ares. I don't imagine Red Frog is available in every mission system - and not everyone is 5 jumps from Jita. Post #38, "RF = Red Frog "Why lowest WTS? so that i can remotely buy while missioning! and use RF freight to move my items back and forth!!, 3m cost is a very good isk to sacrifice, as i will take 0 seconds to move my items around from jita to my place." ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Kyle Cataclysm Blue.	Posted - 2010.08.16 01:18:00 - [46] I make e^9392773313023539 ISK every 5,4x10^-44s. I use a Bantam and one-and-a-half civilian mining laser.
King Aires Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.16 01:36:00 - [47] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation? Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee. While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income. The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.16 01:50:00 - [48] Edited by: Frozean on 16/08/2010 01:52:04 Well, by your logic, i cant buy a ship. It is made by players. I cant by T2 or faction mods less made by myself. It is made by players. I cant sell my items to players, as , well, im not "solo" selling it to myself. This game is a sandbox where most activities are player driven. You cant "solo" as almost everything will be made and bought by players. My tags are bought from players. There is no way i can farm my own tags, because every day i need almost 4,000 tags to accomodate my LP store item production. If i were to count my "hauling", it is definitely out of scope of mission running, If say, i haul it myself every week, and somehow my real isk/hour dropped from 86m-87m to 85.5-86.5m, can i say that this is the "real mission running income?" , i cant say so myself! RF_Freight is a player driven courrier service, and they have spectacular service, being able to finish any courrier contracts within 24 hours, even when they have hundreds outstandings, for a fairly cheap price. No matter where you are missioning, its a very good idea to use this service to haul your loot and goods back and forth from the market hubs, as doing so yourself, you waste time, you risk being ganked without your items getting hedged . Because every day, i produce from 3000 m3 to 20,000 m3 of mission loot, which comprises of guns,boosters, missile launchers, cap boosters, and almost any meta0-4 modules in insane proportions because of the weight of golem. My best hauling ship is the Kronos (which probably is the only thing this marauder is best at), which only has 10,000 m3 cargohold, and some 40,000 EHP. I dont have time to haul everyday. i cant do it...its impossible. Thats why i use RF Freight to do the job for me. and for the above above above saying im defensive, i just ignored the first statement, but when it came back 7 times in a single thread, anyone would be a tad annoyed. Im also fasting and im hungry and i wanna eat ;( makes me a lil cranky. Alrights. gotta clean the windows and stuff. Good luck
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.16 02:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Frozean and for the above above above saying im defensive, i just ignored the first statement, but when it came back 7 times in a single thread, anyone would be a tad annoyed. If you were really good, you would be a Bill O'Reilly/Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh and would be making real money off these folks and could just convert GTCs to isk at a much higher isk/hour. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.16 02:30:00 - [50] im still Tingkatan 2. Cannot work yet ;<

Lusty Wench	Posted - 2010.08.16 04:43:00 - [51] Full API or it didn't happen. Feel free to post it here. (the API that is)
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.16 05:26:00 - [52] Edited by: Frozean on 16/08/2010 05:32:12 No thanks. i rather keep my records private. Nothing will persuade you guys anyways. Proving a point in this forums is like talking to a wall.
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.08.16 05:41:00 - [53] Originally by: King Aires Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation? Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee. While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income. How does the use of courier contracts invalidate his results in anyway? It's not like he's using a second account or a corp-mate to run the couriers for him. Anybody can use RF, or use public courier contracts (slightly less consistent completion time, but usually much cheaper, and there's no risk with proper collateral). If courier contracts "aren't allowed", then selling loot on the market or LP items on contracts also couldn't be allowed, because you're using other players to give you isk. It just makes no sense. Seriously, everyone should use courier contracts. There are people in this game who apparently enjoy moving stuff around for way less than the service is worth. By all means indulge them.
Anddeh McNab Matari Department of Gun Control	Posted - 2010.08.16 08:52:00 - [54] Originally by: Frozean Nothing will persuade you guys anyways. Proving a point in this forums is like talking to a wall. Well I'm convinced but then I'm easy ;) Just goes to show what you can do with a little research and forethough (as well as considerable amounts of extra effort). I'll certainly be using this thread as a sort of guide to get that little bit more ISK out of my mission running. Definately won't be up to Frozean's level as I tend to hoard loot like a dragon :D
Mr Moris	Posted - 2010.08.16 09:41:00 - [55] Flock all the nay sayers Frozean. People are unwilling to accept something from another that they themselves are incapable of doing. You backed your statements up w/ numbers and screen shots. We have to take your word for it but it's hardly in the realm of impossibility. Even if you're lying, these morons arguing w/ you over the plausibility are the real losers. Just because they can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. With that said, when are you gonna stop being such a carebear?
TheMahdi	Posted - 2010.08.16 11:00:00 - [56] Thanks Forzean, very informative. Appreciate it. Just a few questions: The Tengu missions, do you go back to loot/salvage if there is significant wrecks or would you just use the Golem in those instances? What corp do you run for? If I was to say, use a Nightmare, you reckon blitzing or looting/salvaging in a BC as well?
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.16 11:58:00 - [57] Most tengu mission is either warp-in-shoot-warp-out or Cruiser heavy missions . That means there is no salvaging in these missions. However the tengu running at 550m/s can still loot (abit slower since im using gravitation capacitor subsystem) the large wrecks. you dont want to miss meta 4 stuff from large wrecks.
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services	Posted - 2010.08.16 14:09:00 - [58] Originally by: King Aires Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation? Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee. While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income. I have seen some absolutely moronic statements in my years playing video games. But brother, you should win a prize for this one. By your logic, just selling crap on the market means you're no longer making isk solo. Also... using two accounts is still solo farming, as the isk is not being distributed to two people. And "dual boxing" is a misnomer, since its quite easy to run +3 clients on a single box. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.16 16:25:00 - [59] Quote: As for when im gonna stop being carebear, i dont know! i only start playing this game abit over 4-5 months ago, and i try to buy my way into this game via mission running. Still trying to find an ideal character for pirating/FW, as my current array of characters are mostly cruise/torp/BS based characters.. Well, I know a great pirate corp that I suspect is near you (based on the missions you get). Its really tiny though. As for a good FW corp... I've heard good things about Valklear Guards, but you could also look into U'K and Electus Matari. Obviously, I am a Minmatar loyalist. Also, your mission running results are not overly far from mine - so I naturally had no trouble believing you. But I am still impressed by having accomplished that in only 5 months... I think at 5 months I was still flying a Myrmidon around Venal trying to kill all the ratters. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
King Aires Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.16 22:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: King Aires Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation? Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee. While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income. I have seen some absolutely moronic statements in my years playing video games. But brother, you should win a prize for this one. By your logic, just selling crap on the market means you're no longer making isk solo. Also... using two accounts is still solo farming, as the isk is not being distributed to two people. And "dual boxing" is a misnomer, since its quite easy to run +3 clients on a single box. No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell. And no, you using two accounts to farm is not Solo farming no matter how many clients you run on one box lol The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.



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