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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.21 19:06:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ash Donai
Statistically it won't be possible to maintain 86m/h
Uh.
Right.
You keep believing that.
Sounds like you are an Apple customer living inside the reality distortion field.
Speaking of reality, it's already proven my statement to be correct. Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity. One doesn't even have to be a mission runner, or even play EVE, to understand that.
Adults are speaking, gtfo!
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Slimy Worm
Cyan Wolf
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Posted - 2010.08.21 19:16:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Lady Aja
what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"
still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account
It does when you factor in that often both of the sanctums in a system are being done by someone else, and that you need to spend a significant amount of your time actually defending your space. Highsec missions can't be beat, except by playing the market.
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AmICute Uguu
Heron Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.21 21:09:00 -
[123]
I think your LP value for Smuggler Interception is wrong.
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Anddeh McNab
Matari Department of Gun Control
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Posted - 2010.08.21 21:52:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity.
But one does have to be able to read. Frozean has said on multiple occasion that he doesn't mission with multiple accounts.
Also, Frozean was never trying to represent every high-sec mission runner out there. This thread is proof of concept, that someone with enough dedication and forethought can pull off 100+ million ISK per hour purely running missions in high security space. It doesn't mean we all do it, I sure as pie don't. All my financial income is from bounties and rewards in a T2 fit Maelstrom so I can make probably around 100 million ISK per DAY if I put my mind to it.
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Prince Deimos
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Posted - 2010.08.22 00:50:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Ash Donai
Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity.
But one does have to be able to read. Frozean has said on multiple occasion that he doesn't mission with multiple accounts.
Also, Frozean was never trying to represent every high-sec mission runner out there. This thread is proof of concept, that someone with enough dedication and forethought can pull off 100+ million ISK per hour purely running missions in high security space. It doesn't mean we all do it, I sure as pie don't. All my financial income is from bounties and rewards in a T2 fit Maelstrom so I can make probably around 100 million ISK per DAY if I put my mind to it.
Quoting your hero: "As for my golem pilot, yea. about 1-2 months in my CNR i got ard 10b for a golem pilot. All tengu, CNR, and golem are obscenely good mission runners.
I also bought a macha/NM toon alongiside a golem/tengu pilot."
He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.
And I don't care what you fools say, not including the time it takes to turn your LP into ISK is fraud when you are trying to dish out "Hard" numbers. Include everything you have to do to make the isk, or don't count it, that should be pretty simple to understand.
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TehFailGuy
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Posted - 2010.08.22 01:29:00 -
[126]
It takes two accounts to have 3 characters?
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.22 03:14:00 -
[127]
Well, its mostly because im typing while being surrounded by a couple dozen battleships.
So most of the time i keep it brief as i try to make some sense and survive at the same time while salvaging some distance wreck, tractoring a new one and make sure my drone not go awry.
I Never said i had 2 or 3 accounts
I said i have 3 characters, like all sane people do.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 03:37:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Prince Deimos
He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.
I have 4 accounts, yet when I do FW missions I do them with only one of the accounts. Should I divide my ISK/hr by 4 just because I have 4 accounts? No, what matters is that Frozean uses one character at a time for ISK generation purposes.
-Liang
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Ambaseter Doggy
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Posted - 2010.08.22 04:28:00 -
[129]
Liang wins the argument. (seriously if u want to troll someone don't troll liang, you'll ALWAYS lose )
Agent texas is a bit of a badass |
Jessica Verne
Dawn of a new Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.22 06:58:00 -
[130]
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 07:04:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.22 11:23:00 -
[132]
Dont get me started about Low sec lv 5 missions pulling SICK INSANE ammounts of LP per hour....
And about how people can make inane ammounts of dramiels every day
And about how people can mine billions just by putting pos on 0.0 moons.
And about how people can play 01 isk games and earn billions.
And about how people kill motherships, obtaining billions worth of faction drop etc etc etc.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.08.22 11:36:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 07:06:27
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
-Liang
Ed: I honestly don't think that CCP will ever nerf high sec enough for it not to be better than low sec and 0.0.
Sanctums & plexes > L4 missions
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Anddeh McNab
Matari Department of Gun Control
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Posted - 2010.08.22 12:17:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 07:06:27
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
-Liang
Ed: I honestly don't think that CCP will ever nerf high sec enough for it not to be better than low sec and 0.0.
I think the trouble is that while low/null sec PvE (sanctums etc) are better ISK/hour than L4 on a one to one basis, ie one sanctum will make you richer than one level 4 mission generally, the trouble is the over availability of level 4 missions. Or the under availability of sanctums if you want to look at it that way. Haven't lived out in 0.0 for a while so I can't comment on just how big an impact an unpgraded system makes.
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Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.22 13:12:00 -
[135]
100mil isk/hr is BS, some of the best missions only give out maybe 20-25mil isk in bounties, and those are the ones with a single room so you dont have to slow boat to the acc gate. Maybe they take up to max 10mins, then ofc if you want to make more isk you have to loot/salvage which sometimes can take far longer than shooting everything. Especially if frozaen is too noob to fly a maurader to tractor wrecks closer, not to mention the flgiht times of changing ships and trvelling back and forth to missions locations to complete/loot/salvage the missions.
flying a CNR wont do jack ****, you'll kill stuff quicker but you'll still need to utilise every resource of isk available to you in the mission itself, which takes time.
so 100mil isk/hr is complettly a variable estimate on maybe the best of days. Utilising the LP store doesnt count becuase it itself isn't a strictly hourly based income.
goign on strictly loot/salvage/bounties, updates on your wallet strictly from missions itself will never come up to 100mil isk/hr
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TehFailGuy
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Posted - 2010.08.22 13:16:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Prince Deimos
He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.
I have 4 accounts, yet when I do FW missions I do them with only one of the accounts. Should I divide my ISK/hr by 4 just because I have 4 accounts? No, what matters is that Frozean uses one character at a time for ISK generation purposes.
-Liang
Most of the income from high sec lvl 4 missions is from selling things to other players, anyway. If people don't like the income from it, stop buying their stuff!
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.22 13:45:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Roboplegic
1 Utilising the LP store doesnt count becuase it itself isn't a strictly hourly based income.
Congratulations, you have won the stupidest post of the thread award!
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:18:00 -
[138]
^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.
LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income
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Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:24:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Frozean
^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.
LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income
ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Roboplegic
Originally by: Frozean
^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.
LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income
ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.
The word your looking for is that it's not liquid.
But salvage isn't liquid either, you have to still sell it. Neither is loot or tags then.
So according to your logic (which to summarize is that Liquid ISK should not be counted in ISK/hr calculations) the only thing that should count to ISK/hr is bounties and that is why you are the winner of stupidest post award!
Liquid or not, if it has a value in ISK it should be counted for in ISK/hr calculations, I make most of my income from LP, according to your logic, I should ignore that?
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Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:47:00 -
[141]
Originally by: TheMahdi
Originally by: Roboplegic
Originally by: Frozean
^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.
LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income
ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.
The word your looking for is that it's not liquid.
But salvage isn't liquid either, you have to still sell it. Neither is loot or tags then.
So according to your logic (which to summarize is that Liquid ISK should not be counted in ISK/hr calculations) the only thing that should count to ISK/hr is bounties and that is why you are the winner of stupidest post award!
Liquid or not, if it has a value in ISK it should be counted for in ISK/hr calculations, I make most of my income from LP, according to your logic, I should ignore that?
if your trying to come up with a isk/hr income based on LP yes, why? becuase theres too many variables, you dont succesfully sell an LP item on the market on the hour every hour do you? Other wise give me an equation where you find the mean (average) income you get on a hourly basis from sold items from the LP store.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:58:00 -
[142]
Edited by: TheMahdi on 22/08/2010 15:00:08
Edited by: TheMahdi on 22/08/2010 14:59:52
Originally by: Roboplegic
Originally by: TheMahdi
Originally by: Roboplegic
Originally by: Frozean
^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.
LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income
ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.
The word your looking for is that it's not liquid.
But salvage isn't liquid either, you have to still sell it. Neither is loot or tags then.
So according to your logic (which to summarize is that Liquid ISK should not be counted in ISK/hr calculations) the only thing that should count to ISK/hr is bounties and that is why you are the winner of stupidest post award!
Liquid or not, if it has a value in ISK it should be counted for in ISK/hr calculations, I make most of my income from LP, according to your logic, I should ignore that?
if your trying to come up with a isk/hr income based on LP yes, why? becuase theres too many variables, you dont succesfully sell an LP item on the market on the hour every hour do you? Other wise give me an equation where you find the mean (average) income you get on a hourly basis from sold items from the LP store.
You make certain amount of LP per hour, and that LP is worth a certain amount of ISK. There aren't too many variables, maybe you need some maths lessons?
LP required to get the item from LP store: A
Additional ISK cost from LP store: B
Required item prices: C, D, E, F...etc. (tags, etc.)
ISK/LP = (Sale price - B - C - D - E) / A
Pretty simple and doesn't matter when you convert the LP, your still making that much ISK/hr and with the item I'm selling at the moment, it converts almost instantly, if I want ISK right now, I just sell to WTB contracts (they aren't that far off the median value anyway). Otherwise it only takes a day or two to convert at lowest sell value. But the ISK/hr calculation is how many hours it took me to earn that much liquid ISK, it's of no consequence to me if it sells today or tomorrow. I'm not sitting there wasting my time watching the contract on my screen, I'm making more ISK :P
And the same goes for salvage, loot and tags. No one should be selling them as soon as they get them, I usually don't sell my salvage and loot for weeks, until I have enough to fill up a decent cargo space.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.22 15:09:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
If you can't make more money in lowsec than hisec you fail at eve.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2010.08.22 16:55:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.
If you can't make more money in lowsec than hisec you fail at eve.
That just depends on your definition. Lowsec does not have the hubs of highsec, as such it does not have the volumes of isk moved to skim out of. Trades is hands down no doubt the one big isk maker in eve, with just about no competition what so ever, atleast nothing legal.
If you stick to missions, it's suddenly a question regarding risk. You can with relatively safety fly any single one ship in lowsec and do missions. Can you do it with two? three? 15? Once you figure out that magic number of peak income, compare it to the same in highsec. Next to every single time, the answer will be in favour of highsec. This goes for 0.0 aswell - to some degree. Not as much because of the risk, that's somewhat easy to void, but you have to keep systems active and as mentioned defend it, which quickly cuts into the income. Especially once you reach higher number of systems.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 203799
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2010.08.22 17:14:00 -
[145]
Salvage, loot, minerals, tags......all that stuff is easy to sell.
I see a magic number of 2500+++++++++++++++ isk per lp being mentioned in this thread. Back when I was a really, really, bad mission ***** I'd make way more lp in a day than I could unload at a decent price. Navy EANMs and heat sinks were good for a while, but eventually the competition and demand made that less profitable than I was willing to bother with.
A friend of mine says he makes 500k lp per day, and I have no reason to doubt it. He has tons of trouble unloading all that lp.
You know what my lp is worth? 1250/per. A guy "buys" my lp. I don't need to stare at spreadsheets and scout markets, no moving of goods, no flooded markets, no .01 isk market pvp. Oh sure, I don't get the most for my lp...but it's totally worth it. Hell, I'll sell mine at 1000/per all day long.
So, lets see what you're using to convert your lp to isk. I call BS.
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Salvage Contractor
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Posted - 2010.08.22 18:17:00 -
[146]
Originally by: NoNah
This goes for 0.0 aswell - to some degree. Not as much because of the risk, that's somewhat easy to void, but you have to keep systems active and as mentioned defend it, which quickly cuts into the income. Especially once you reach higher number of systems.
Not sure what you mean, missions in 0.0 are all in NPC space which you don't need to hold per-se in order to mission there.
One prime example is Serpentis Prime, no one really bothers to bubble camp that station so non IT pets can mission there without too much trouble. In time you figure out who the local scanners are and just go and do something else while they are online. I don't think I ever had a mission for less than 8k LP there.
Then there's Expert Distribution deep in Syndicate, equally "easy" to mission there for massive LP. Takes a little bit of time to logistically set things up but the LP gains are definitely worth it if you want a little more excitement than hisec mission and a much much higher payout. |
Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.22 18:44:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Irae Ragwan on 22/08/2010 18:46:58
Originally by: Cipher Jones
If you can't make more money in lowsec than hisec you fail at eve.
I live in lowsec. I plex and mission here quite efficiently, but I damn sure bring in more isk per hour when I jumpclone to empire and blitz with my nightmare or mach.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 18:47:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ashira Twilight
Navy EANMs and heat sinks were good for a while, but eventually the competition and demand made that less profitable than I was willing to bother with.
They're sitting at 4500 ISK/LP right now, if you outright buy the tags off the Jita market.
-Liang
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On Twitter
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TehFailGuy
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Posted - 2010.08.22 19:08:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ashira Twilight
Navy EANMs and heat sinks were good for a while, but eventually the competition and demand made that less profitable than I was willing to bother with.
They're sitting at 4500 ISK/LP right now, if you outright buy the tags off the Jita market.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 19:37:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 19:43:06
Originally by: TehFailGuy
I didn't post this yesterday, but I calculated it:
Imperial Navy EANM x5 BPC
- 27000 LP
- 10.8M ISK
- 71 x Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I [ 925K, Jita Sell ]
- 119 x Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I [165K, Jita Sell ]
Costs:
- 10.8M + 65.675M + 19.635 = 96.11M ISK
- Expected Gross: 40-45M * 5 = 200-225M ISK
- ISK/LP = 3,847 - 4,773
-Liang
Ed: Come on guys, push the price down a bit more. I'm thinking in the 27M ISK range so that its competitive with other LP stores. :)
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