Originally by: Lady Aja

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what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"

still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account.

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Originally by: King Aires

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60k lp per hour?! With the perfect set of missions and perfect social skills, maybe.

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Quote:

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My LP earning oscillates from 25k LP- 33k LP per hour

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Originally by: King Aires

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What it looks to me is you ran a bunch of the best missions, and took what you made and divided by the fraction of an hour it took to run them then added them all up. It does no good to say mission x gets me 10 mil in 6 minutes so therefore I must make 100mil an hour when at the end of your 5 hour day you only have 200mil to show for it.

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Quote:

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All mission completion times is from Time completion of mission before mission X, until Time of completion of mission X, taken from the wallet journal.

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Originally by: King Aires

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It is not about how much isk per hour you make, it is about how much isk you made after x number of hours. there is a huge difference.

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Originally by: Lada Aja

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using more than one account

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Originally by: Goose99

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That aside, there's system travel time, warp time, time checking shop, cashing in LP, setting tag buy orders, hauling to hub, setting sell contracts, etc.

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Originally by: King Rothgar

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However this is still hugely exaggerated. This is due to two problems. First of all is travel time.

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Originally by: Frozean

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All mission completion times is from Time completion of mission before mission X, until Time of completion of mission X, taken from the wallet journal.

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Originally by: King Rothgar

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The second problem is the way missions are pulled. Some are heavily favored over others. I haven't gotten blockade in at least 6 months on either of my characters. But I get unauthorized military presence about 25% of the time (long term average). I'll agree that if I got blockade all the time, it would be 100M isk/hr. But I get military presence, which is about 20M/hr.

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Originally by: King Rothgar

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Your claim would be like me claiming I make 876M isk/hr because many lvl5's take me a whole of 5 minutes to run. The simple reality is that if I go and run lvl5's, I'm maybe 200-300M isk richer after 1.5-2 hours. I may have completed one in 5 minutes but odds are I got stuck chewing on the next two or three for 45 minutes each.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Blockade is a ***** and I'd rather not get it. It tends to really **** up my ISK/hr. Also, what the hell is wrong with your agent?

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Originally by: Lady Aja

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Edited by: Lady Aja on 14/08/2010 03:28:24
once again... using more than one account does not equal true isk per hour.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Blockade is a ***** and I'd rather not get it. It tends to really **** up my ISK/hr.

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Quote:

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All mission completion times is from Time completion of mission before mission X, until Time of completion of mission X, taken from the wallet journal.

---

Originally by: King Aires

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So I will ask the all important question, none of your spreadsheets or gloating matters only this one question, and you can prove it with your wallet screenshot.

At the end of a day of missioning, how many hours did you spend online, and how much isk did you make? That's it, show me the screeny of your wallet set to 0 at login, and wallet with journal at end of the day. Then tell me your hours spent (matching the journal of course) and then divide total isk by time spent.

I have 100mil isk that says you don't break 60mil an hour using the above method.

---

Originally by: Frozean

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Edited by: Frozean on 13/08/2010 23:10:02
Space : Minmatar/Caldari space (not much difference)
Calculated LP conv : 2K isk per LP (actually 2.5+ but not bothering)

All mission completion times is from Time completion of mission before mission X, until Time of completion of mission X, taken from the wallet journal.

Most of the time, i either finish the mission at Y minutes(as on excel) or Y-1 minutes 95% of the time, if the mission is at most one jump, i will achieve Y minutes mission completion.


I earn approximately 550m (500m-150m from store item, and 200 of pure isk) in 6-7 hours.... blah blah blah

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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But I get unauthorized military presence about 25% of the time (long term average).

Also, what the hell is wrong with your agent?

-Liang

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Originally by: Forest Gump

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And that's all I got to say 'bout that.

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Originally by: Frozean

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King aires, the eLP is an important definition to understand, because lots of calculation is made to get this number.


For example, on one of the popular caldari items,

it can be sold on contract for 104m currently, which is 102.5m minus broker fee's and accounting lv 4 sales tax.

To make five (102.5m items), which generates 512.5m

---

Originally by: Frozean

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Edited by: Frozean on 15/08/2010 13:31:52
I just buy using remote trading skills in Jita or Rens. Then after i have around 500m-1b worth of tags, ill use courrier contracts to bring the items to me.

You also use courrier contracts to bring the LP store items to the market hubs, and use remote contracting / remote daytrading to sell your items while still missioning.

---

Originally by: Lady Aja

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what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"

still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account.

---

Originally by: Lady Aja

---

what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"

still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account.

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Originally by: Frozean

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There is no where in this thread that say i have two accounts. I only have one, and only one account.

I know there are people who dont read and just troll at first read, but this is rediculous.

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

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So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

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I've read the post. I don't see any reference to Red Frog in his post -only his reply to king ares.

I don't imagine Red Frog is available in every mission system - and not everyone is 5 jumps from Jita.

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

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So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

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Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

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Originally by: Frozean

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and for the above above above saying im defensive, i just ignored the first statement, but when it came back 7 times in a single thread, anyone would be a tad annoyed.

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Originally by: King Aires

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

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So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

---

Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

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While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.

---

Originally by: Frozean

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Nothing will persuade you guys anyways. Proving a point in this forums is like talking to a wall.

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Originally by: King Aires

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

---

So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

---

Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

---

While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.

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Quote:

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As for when im gonna stop being carebear, i dont know!
i only start playing this game abit over 4-5 months ago, and i try to buy my way into this game via mission running.
Still trying to find an ideal character for pirating/FW, as my current array of characters are mostly cruise/torp/BS based characters..

---

Originally by: Awesome Possum

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Originally by: King Aires

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

---

So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

---

Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

---

While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.

---

I have seen some absolutely moronic statements in my years playing video games.

But brother, you should win a prize for this one.

By your logic, just selling crap on the market means you're no longer making isk solo.

Also... using two accounts is still solo farming, as the isk is not being distributed to two people. And "dual boxing" is a misnomer, since its quite easy to run +3 clients on a single box.

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Originally by: King Aires

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No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/08/2010 23:34:06

Originally by: King Aires

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No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell.

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ISK/Hr = Your ISK / Your Time. He isn't hauling the ****, therefore it would be wrong of him to include that time. Sorry that you feel he "cheated".

-Liang

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Originally by: King Aires

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lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.

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Originally by: Builder Robert

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Originally by: King Aires

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lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.

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Why do something that decreases your earning power, increases effort/time invested and provides nothing when you can use in game features that ANYONE else can utilise to do it for you? Because you can't think for yourself and only earn 7m/hour I expect. I doubted Frozean at first because he made stupid jokes in local and was ever so full of himself, I'll have to read the spreadsheet myself now then possibly reconsider my position :)

I have a question if you don't mind. Have you tried out Cargo Delivery and Recon 1-2/3 in a shuttle? Damn easy and very quick.

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Originally by: King Aires

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Double Facepalm time...

I hate these alts who can't comprehend what I am saying because they think there is either a black and a white response.

I just said I think his idea to use the cargo hauling people is great. I just said if he did not he would lose isk. I just applauded him for doing that instead of hauling for himself. All I am saying is, it is no longer a single player activity when you involve other players in your adventure. Having corp mates, hauling services or a macro haul your stuff for you negates your ability to claim solo isk. Yes he makes a lot of isk, with the help of another corporation. No he does not earn all that isk alone. Hell he isn't even using an alt to haul, he is actually using a physically separate human entity.

Seriously you lot cannot be this dumb

EDIT: Oh and little alt, take a look at my standings before you start asking if I know how to run missions. You see that, yeah, it's before my social skills and I bet you cant even count that high.

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Originally by: King Aires

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lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.

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Originally by: King Aires

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Having corp mates, hauling services or a macro haul your stuff for you negates your ability to claim solo isk. Yes he makes a lot of isk, with the help of another corporation. No he does not earn all that isk alone. Hell he isn't even using an alt to haul, he is actually using a physically separate human entity.

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Originally by: Frozean

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Edited by: Frozean on 17/08/2010 03:46:15
Sec guys,
Okay. Lets say i am forced to haul myself.

My theoretical solution, is to skill up for Large industrials, i know some that can carry 860,000m3 of cargo.

Then instead of using RF Freight, with my current earning of up to 20,000 m3 of loot a day, it will take around at most 43 days for it to fill up (dont refine!!)

Now every 43 days, you carry all your loot to the market hub, and carry all your tags back into your mission running site.

As per normal use marketing and trading skills to accumulate tags from the nearest market hub, and buy 43 days worth of tags and ammo to bring back.

So lets say, i play 6.5 hours a day to generate my desired LP store items one run a day, and it goes on for 43 days.
In normal circumstance, i will be spending 6.5*43= 279.5 hours mission running

Now lets say it takes 2 hour back and from your market hub, so i will be instead, spending 6.5*43+2 = 281.5

By simple division, this theoratical setup will cause me to earn 0.99289520426288 * 86m real isk/hour which is 85.388987566607m

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Originally by: Carthus Sondale

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It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"

When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Carthus Sondale

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It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"

When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.

---

Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Carthus Sondale

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It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"

When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.

---

Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.

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Originally by: Builder Robert

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Carthus Sondale

---

It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"

When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.

---

Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.

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Yeah, that's a bit too far because people take breaks and aren't even at their keyboard for a lot of those "10 hours". It'd be like saying you only make 1/3rd of what you actually do because you're at home for 8 hours and sleep for 8 hours.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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No. If I make 10 million in an hour being afk I still make 10 million. If you don't make money while you're afk you don't make any. You are speaking of a salaried or hourly wage job in your example. Look at it as a 100% commission job. you dont work you dont get paid. But sometimes you can't work either. the clock is still ticking in both cases, so to speak.

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Originally by: Forest Gump

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And that's all I got to say 'bout that.

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Originally by: Frozean

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Sorry character limit.

That means, if one day my relatives ask me, hey, you wash your dad's car each weekend? how much money do you earn?

Frozean: 0.000011556952662722 dollars per hour

And mah dad gonna go to court for child abuse.

Good luck !

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Originally by: Frozean

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Good luck !

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Originally by: King Aires

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

---

So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

---

Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

---

While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.

---

Originally by: Frozean

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Btw posting this is lowering my isk/hour

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Originally by: Frozean

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Edited by: Frozean on 18/08/2010 12:52:06
battleclinic is down ;(

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Originally by: King Aires

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

---

So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?

---

Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.

---

While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.

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Originally by: King Rothgar

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The raw isk/LP amounts are very reasonable as is the completion time. However this is still hugely exaggerated. This is due to two problems. First of all is travel time. Maybe you've found some unused agent but every agent I've used since the recent mission changes send me at least 1 jump away. That's 2 minutes round trip of travel time assuming I'm in a shuttle, which I'm probably not unless it's recon.

The second problem is the way missions are pulled. Some are heavily favored over others. I haven't gotten blockade in at least 6 months on either of my characters. But I get unauthorized military presence about 25% of the time (long term average). I'll agree that if I got blockade all the time, it would be 100M isk/hr. But I get military presence, which is about 20M/hr.

Your claim would be like me claiming I make 876M isk/hr because many lvl5's take me a whole of 5 minutes to run. The simple reality is that if I go and run lvl5's, I'm maybe 200-300M isk richer after 1.5-2 hours. I may have completed one in 5 minutes but odds are I got stuck chewing on the next two or three for 45 minutes each.

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Originally by: sasabor

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I have some doubts about all these numbers you people turn up, in a few hours of missions i am lucky to have 20 to 25 mil without loot and salvage, that is if i get the good missions, but then again EVE isn't about making the most Isk/ per hour (personal opinion )
so my question OP you still have fun playing this game

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Originally by: Lady Aja

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still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account.

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Originally by: HottyChick

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Still running sanctums bring definately more steady and insta income, not mention escalations.

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Originally by: Salvage Contractor

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HIGH SECMissions on the other hand are always available at zero low risk to the runner.

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Originally by: Mr Moris

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Flock all the nay sayers Frozean. People are unwilling to accept something from another that they themselves are incapable of doing.

You backed your statements up w/ numbers and screen shots. We have to take your word for it but it's hardly in the realm of impossibility. Even if you're lying, these morons arguing w/ you over the plausibility are the real losers. Just because they can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

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Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn

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I just don't know how people get more than 1k per lp. I've flown to Jita with a list of my lp store rewards and there is no items that sell for more than 1k. The vast majority are way under this. I've tried both Amarr and Ammatar agents. Seems like if you want to get 2k per lp you have to do a lot of research into the right corp to run for....

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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we really should have a mission off with screenshots.

Everybody start at 12:00UTC or something feasible. No missions selected beforehand and see how much ISk can be made in an arbitrary amount of time.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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we really should have a mission off with screenshots.

Everybody start at 12:00UTC or something feasible. No missions selected beforehand and see how much ISk can be made in an arbitrary amount of time.

---

I too like missioning at 3am.

-Liang

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Originally by: Frozean

---

Edited by: Frozean on 21/08/2010 14:27:10
Frozean was my first character.

Got in a raven in a month, Bought a CNR on the 3rd day the mission run/trade my way by abusing character bazaar :P

As for my golem pilot, yea. about 1-2 months in my CNR i got ard 10b for a golem pilot. All tengu, CNR, and golem are obscenely good mission runners.

I also bought a macha/NM toon alongiside a golem/tengu pilot.

Either way, it was holidays. And UK is a darn boring place to live in, SPECIALLY IF UR NOT IN LOndonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn .... all they do is drink.....ew

So yeah. i had time to waste. Life is good.

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Originally by: King Aires

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No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell.

And no, you using two accounts to farm is not Solo farming no matter how many clients you run on one box lol

---

Originally by: NoNah

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Also, his figures are in no way extreme. I'd say they're just above average for a missionrunner trying to achieve good isk. A long way to go for those who really want to maximize.

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Originally by: Ash Donai

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Statistically it won't be possible to maintain 86m/h

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Ash Donai

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Statistically it won't be possible to maintain 86m/h

---

Uh.

Right.

You keep believing that.

---

Originally by: Ash Donai

---

Sounds like you are an Apple customer living inside the reality distortion field.

---

Quote:

---

Speaking of reality, it's already proven my statement to be correct.

---

Originally by: Ash Donai

---

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Originally by: Ash Donai

---

Statistically it won't be possible to maintain 86m/h

---

Uh.

Right.

You keep believing that.

---

Sounds like you are an Apple customer living inside the reality distortion field.
Speaking of reality, it's already proven my statement to be correct. Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity. One doesn't even have to be a mission runner, or even play EVE, to understand that.

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Originally by: Lady Aja

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what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"

still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account

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Originally by: Ash Donai

---

Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity.

---

Originally by: Anddeh McNab

---

Originally by: Ash Donai

---

Just because one player (with multiple accounts) managed to come up with a non-representative sample of mission running life doesn't mean that this sample accurately extrapolates to infinity.

---

But one does have to be able to read. Frozean has said on multiple occasion that he doesn't mission with multiple accounts.
Also, Frozean was never trying to represent every high-sec mission runner out there. This thread is proof of concept, that someone with enough dedication and forethought can pull off 100+ million ISK per hour purely running missions in high security space. It doesn't mean we all do it, I sure as pie don't. All my financial income is from bounties and rewards in a T2 fit Maelstrom so I can make probably around 100 million ISK per DAY if I put my mind to it.

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

---

He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.

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Originally by: Jessica Verne

---

Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 07:06:27

Originally by: Jessica Verne

---

Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

---

-Liang

Ed: I honestly don't think that CCP will ever nerf high sec enough for it not to be better than low sec and 0.0.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 07:06:27

Originally by: Jessica Verne

---

Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

---

-Liang

Ed: I honestly don't think that CCP will ever nerf high sec enough for it not to be better than low sec and 0.0.

---

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Originally by: Prince Deimos

---

He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.

---

I have 4 accounts, yet when I do FW missions I do them with only one of the accounts. Should I divide my ISK/hr by 4 just because I have 4 accounts? No, what matters is that Frozean uses one character at a time for ISK generation purposes.

-Liang

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Originally by: Roboplegic

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1 Utilising the LP store doesnt count becuase it itself isn't a strictly hourly based income.

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Originally by: Frozean

---

^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.


LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income

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Originally by: Roboplegic

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Originally by: Frozean

---

^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.


LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income

---

ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.

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Originally by: TheMahdi

---

Originally by: Roboplegic

---

Originally by: Frozean

---

^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.


LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income

---

ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.

---

The word your looking for is that it's not liquid.

But salvage isn't liquid either, you have to still sell it. Neither is loot or tags then.

So according to your logic (which to summarize is that Liquid ISK should not be counted in ISK/hr calculations) the only thing that should count to ISK/hr is bounties and that is why you are the winner of stupidest post award!

Liquid or not, if it has a value in ISK it should be counted for in ISK/hr calculations, I make most of my income from LP, according to your logic, I should ignore that?

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Originally by: Roboplegic

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Originally by: TheMahdi

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Originally by: Roboplegic

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Originally by: Frozean

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^^ Ill be honest, i laughed.


LP income is as hourly as it gets . LP has isk value. LP is ALWAYS given in any mission, therefore LP is an income

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ok yes, but you dont create an income off it until you buy items from the LP store and sell it, which i should clarify isnt a strictly hourly based income.

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The word your looking for is that it's not liquid.

But salvage isn't liquid either, you have to still sell it. Neither is loot or tags then.

So according to your logic (which to summarize is that Liquid ISK should not be counted in ISK/hr calculations) the only thing that should count to ISK/hr is bounties and that is why you are the winner of stupidest post award!

Liquid or not, if it has a value in ISK it should be counted for in ISK/hr calculations, I make most of my income from LP, according to your logic, I should ignore that?

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if your trying to come up with a isk/hr income based on LP yes, why? becuase theres too many variables, you dont succesfully sell an LP item on the market on the hour every hour do you? Other wise give me an equation where you find the mean (average) income you get on a hourly basis from sold items from the LP store.

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Originally by: Jessica Verne

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Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Jessica Verne

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Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

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If you can't make more money in lowsec than hisec you fail at eve.

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Originally by: NoNah

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This goes for 0.0 aswell - to some degree. Not as much because of the risk, that's somewhat easy to void, but you have to keep systems active and as mentioned defend it, which quickly cuts into the income. Especially once you reach higher number of systems.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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If you can't make more money in lowsec than hisec you fail at eve.

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Originally by: Ashira Twilight

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Navy EANMs and heat sinks were good for a while, but eventually the competition and demand made that less profitable than I was willing to bother with.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Ashira Twilight

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Navy EANMs and heat sinks were good for a while, but eventually the competition and demand made that less profitable than I was willing to bother with.

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They're sitting at 4500 ISK/LP right now, if you outright buy the tags off the Jita market.

-Liang

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Originally by: TehFailGuy

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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He just said it there, he has at least two accounts, but by the sound of his bad english he makes it sound like he has 3.

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I have 4 accounts, yet when I do FW missions I do them with only one of the accounts. Should I divide my ISK/hr by 4 just because I have 4 accounts? No, what matters is that Frozean uses one character at a time for ISK generation purposes.

-Liang

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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I did not say anything about dividing isk. I am simply pointing out he does not just mission on one super character, he has multiple characters depending on the mission. Multiple characters help pick the best missions because instead of 2 refusals you can do 4 or 6.

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Quote:

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You snobs make it sound like everyone and their brother should be able to log into eve with characters ready to make 100mil/hr no problem while forgeting the average person in this game cannot mission for a long time, does not have specialized mission characters for every mission type possible and doesn't have the skills to properly turn lp into isk.

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Quote:

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Evidence of the fact the majority of mission runners get crap lp/isk rates is in the fact you can barely make 500isk per lp off faction ammo... I would bet my savings that faction ammo is the single most turned in category of lp in the game.

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Quote:

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Long story short, People here are right that you can't troll Liang, because Liang is the ultimate troll. People in this thread are dead wrong that this dude represents some kind of norm for high sec mission running.

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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I did not say anything about dividing isk. I am simply pointing out he does not just mission on one super character, he has multiple characters depending on the mission. Multiple characters help pick the best missions because instead of 2 refusals you can do 4 or 6.

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Quote:

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You snobs make it sound like everyone and their brother should be able to log into eve with characters ready to make 100mil/hr no problem while forgeting the average person in this game cannot mission for a long time, does not have specialized mission characters for every mission type possible and doesn't have the skills to properly turn lp into isk.

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Quote:

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Long story short, People here are right that you can't troll Liang, because Liang is the ultimate troll. People in this thread are dead wrong that this dude represents some kind of norm for high sec mission running.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Ed: Come on guys, push the [EANM] price down a bit more. I'm thinking in the 27M ISK range so that its competitive with other LP stores. :)

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Edited by: Moose Burger on 23/08/2010 04:32:21
To the above, ALL missions are one jump away, unless its the always-in-the-same-system missions.
Hint: Find constelations where your hub is one jump away from 85% of the systems.

Of course, some mission are always in the same system. like buzz kill, the assault, pirate invasi, the blockade , recon etc etc


Hey guys.

I tried pvping yesterday

So i brought a pimp T2 fit kestrel and died a horrid death
I cried the whole night and bio massed Frozean. So ends my era of trolling

Btw, i use the tengu and golem with the same character. So yea, i dont have Heavy missile ZMH implant in my head. i think if i can push that in i can 2-hit lots of mordu's cruisers, but wateva.

I use faction standings to do missions. So on average, im able to reject 40-70 missions per 16 mission storyline, and as long as its not Material of war, it will balance out.

Btw, i absulotely HATE Amarr LP Store. Not only the best farmable mission site is a high sec island, it also requires insane ammounts of tags to get at.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 19:43:06

Originally by: TehFailGuy

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I didn't post this yesterday, but I calculated it:

Imperial Navy EANM x5 BPC
- 27000 LP
- 10.8M ISK
- 71 x Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I [ 925K, Jita Sell ]
- 119 x Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I [165K, Jita Sell ]

Costs:
- 10.8M + 65.675M + 19.635 = 96.11M ISK
- Expected Gross: 40-45M * 5 = 200-225M ISK
- ISK/LP = 3,847 - 4,773

-Liang

Ed: Come on guys, push the price down a bit more. I'm thinking in the 27M ISK range so that its competitive with other LP stores. :)

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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11/10?

actually im pretty serious.

I biomassed frozean ;P
If you check ingame it doesnt exist anymore. Or someone might ninja the trollface.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 19:43:06

Originally by: TehFailGuy

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---

I didn't post this yesterday, but I calculated it:

Imperial Navy EANM x5 BPC
- 27000 LP
- 10.8M ISK
- 71 x Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I [ 925K, Jita Sell ]
- 119 x Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I [165K, Jita Sell ]

Costs:
- 10.8M + 65.675M + 19.635 = 96.11M ISK
- Expected Gross: 40-45M * 5 = 200-225M ISK
- ISK/LP = 3,847 - 4,773

-Liang

Ed: Come on guys, push the price down a bit more. I'm thinking in the 27M ISK range so that its competitive with other LP stores. :)

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/08/2010 19:43:06

Originally by: TehFailGuy

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---

I didn't post this yesterday, but I calculated it:

Imperial Navy EANM x5 BPC
- 27000 LP
- 10.8M ISK
- 71 x Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I [ 925K, Jita Sell ]
- 119 x Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I [165K, Jita Sell ]

Costs:
- 10.8M + 65.675M + 19.635 = 96.11M ISK
- Expected Gross: 40-45M * 5 = 200-225M ISK
- ISK/LP = 3,847 - 4,773

-Liang

Ed: Come on guys, push the price down a bit more. I'm thinking in the 27M ISK range so that its competitive with other LP stores. :)

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Originally by: Anddeh McNab

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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11/10?

actually im pretty serious.

I biomassed frozean ;P
If you check ingame it doesnt exist anymore. Or someone might ninja the trollface.

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Let me clear this up for the sake of people that have a low reading IQ. If I have this right, Frozean was the character you first account on your account? Which got into a CNR and made 10b in 5 months. That money you then used to buy a Golem/Tengu pilot, which may or may not be Moose Burger. Which was then used to make silly ISK/hour, hence this thread. Frozean having outlived his usefulness was then biomassed. Correct?

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Originally by: Serendipity Raine

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So, either Frozean is a troll (quite a good one, 'cos I was fooled), Moose is randomly lying, or Frozean is an utter idiot.

Which to we think?

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Originally by: Lady Aja

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what you are saying is. "i used two accounts to get that kind of isk"

still does not out do solo sanctums in upgraded systems.. 100m an hour with ONE account.

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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A - We have all been trolled bad, from post #1. All Fake, All Troll, All the Time.
B - We have all been trolled bad, from page #6. Frozean is indeed Biomassed or Banned, but the reasons are yet unknown.
C - Frozean was actually a Liang alt, probably the most believable scenerio, and Liang has pulled a Troll on us all.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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A - We have all been trolled bad, from post #1. All Fake, All Troll, All the Time.
B - We have all been trolled bad, from page #6. Frozean is indeed Biomassed or Banned, but the reasons are yet unknown.
C - Frozean was actually a Liang alt, probably the most believable scenerio, and Liang has pulled a Troll on us all.

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D - Frozean was telling the truth and decided to biomass a useless character.

What I know for sure about this thread:
- Frozean claimed 102M ISK/hr in the topic, yet only averaged 85ish M/isk/r
- A lot of people didn't read his initial post, where he addressed most of the things brought up in the thread.
- 85M ISK/hr is definitely doable in high sec with the right skills/ships. He seems to have them.
- I didn't look at the mission completion times on the strength of point #2.
- RFF is a damn good idea. I bought a Providence to haul my **** in.
- Frozean isn't, never has been, and never will be one of my alts. :)

-Liang

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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Nice troll... Point #1 would kinda make Frozean an exaggerator wouldn't it? He can't be telling the truth if he was off by 20% can he?

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Quote:

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No you did not check his mission times, which he does by counting time in/time out. He does not count Undock/Dock time in entirety. Counting only the time it takes to do the mission, and not the time it takes to get there is fraud.

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Quote:

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I think half the people in half the threads you post in are your alts. That is your solution to winning a thread is to flood it with your alts. Classic strategy, very smart.

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Quote:

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Frozean is the ultimate loser in this thread, bio-massing a CNR mission character instead of selling it is F-ing ******ed. I don't care if he can prove he makes 200mil per hour, he just lost several billion from not selling that character.

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Edited by: Moose Burger on 23/08/2010 16:46:06

Percone is an NPC corp? since when?

as I said. the idiots keeps coming.

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Originally by: Prince Deimos

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Stoic, his numbers were off from his claims by 20% because of all the real time reasons those of us disputing them gave. I just want all the extra help he got included as a footnote.

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Look at frozeans faction standings

Caldari State8.67

Faction standings cant be obatained by sharing accounts
Faction standings are obtained by grinding storylines.

Yes. I played a lot. I could say ive already done almost 70-80 storyline missions on Frozean all of them in Haatomo.

Anything else?
Are you saying Frozean with bad minmatar standings and no Minmatar NPC standings can somehow share info with a toon in the same account?

I dont know what goes in your mind but. Its tiring to answer all the troll questions that is completely unrelated to the ammount of isk/hour i made.

Shared rewards? Are you saying that somehow i should be getting 3 million isk from mission rewards and another 3 million isk from time rewards? God. If thats the case i would have loved to cheat everyone in the world.

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Personally, i dont feel like i lack in the SP department. Im more interested in how to blitz missions faster, even though i will need to field various ships for it.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Personally, i dont feel like i lack in the SP department. Im more interested in how to blitz missions faster, even though i will need to field various ships for it.

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If you want to be REALLY hardcore about it, you could use some combination of:
- Tengu, for all the small **** (Duo of Death, Recon 2/3, Recon 3/3)
- Nightmare for Blood Raider missions
- Mach for Angel/Sansha missions
- CNR for Guristas/Serpentis missions
- Golem for Drone and close range BS heavy missions. Accept no substitute.

I'm a bit undecided on the Sansha missions thing. On the one hand, the Mach is "unaffected" by their TD (it really is, just doesn't affect falloff), but on the other hand the Nightmare has more real DPS and can kill things before TDs become annoying. One of the big advantages of doing it like this is that each ship is *already* fit appropriately, no refitting/reloading time wasted.

As to the final result of this thread: WTF? The admission that it's possible for highly skilled characters to break 80M ISK/hr in high sec is really all I care about in this thread.

-Liang

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Someone tried to ask for screenshot. then wallet . then full API. What next, my credit card details? my ID and password? How about my Social Security number/ID?

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Originally by: TheMahdi

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Im more interested in how to blitz missions faster, even though i will need to field various ships for it.

---

If you want to be REALLY hardcore about it, you could use some combination of:
- Tengu, for all the small **** (Duo of Death, Recon 2/3, Recon 3/3)
- Nightmare for Blood Raider missions
- Mach for Angel/Sansha missions
- CNR for Guristas/Serpentis missions
- Golem for Drone and close range BS heavy missions. Accept no substitute.

---

It's actually a great idea.

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Originally by: Ash Donai

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Originally by: TheMahdi

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Moose Burger

---

Im more interested in how to blitz missions faster, even though i will need to field various ships for it.

---

If you want to be REALLY hardcore about it, you could use some combination of:
- Tengu, for all the small **** (Duo of Death, Recon 2/3, Recon 3/3)
- Nightmare for Blood Raider missions
- Mach for Angel/Sansha missions
- CNR for Guristas/Serpentis missions
- Golem for Drone and close range BS heavy missions. Accept no substitute.

---

It's actually a great idea.

---

Let's think about this.
The above, with proper mods will run you like 10-12 bil total. Let's say you make the 80m/h, that means you'd need to put in 125-150 hours to make up for the investment (though one could argue that the ships/mods don't lose much value hence no need for an actual ROI), assuming you have the cash to spend up front.

Then again, what else would you spend the ISK on anyway, so may as well buy the appropriate ships/mods to make more ISK which then too just sits idle.

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Originally by: Ash Donai

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Originally by: TheMahdi

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Moose Burger

---

Im more interested in how to blitz missions faster, even though i will need to field various ships for it.

---

If you want to be REALLY hardcore about it, you could use some combination of:
- Tengu, for all the small **** (Duo of Death, Recon 2/3, Recon 3/3)
- Nightmare for Blood Raider missions
- Mach for Angel/Sansha missions
- CNR for Guristas/Serpentis missions
- Golem for Drone and close range BS heavy missions. Accept no substitute.

---

It's actually a great idea.

---

Let's think about this.
The above, with proper mods will run you like 10-12 bil total. Let's say you make the 80m/h, that means you'd need to put in 125-150 hours to make up for the investment (though one could argue that the ships/mods don't lose much value hence no need for an actual ROI), assuming you have the cash to spend up front.

Then again, what else would you spend the ISK on anyway, so may as well buy the appropriate ships/mods to make more ISK which then too just sits idle.

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Originally by: Jessica Verne

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Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

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Originally by: Tira 0'TooIe

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I see you haven't read the latest QEN. The income from ratting dwarfs that of mission running. Plus they're only counting rat bounties, not faction drops, salvage, or loot reprocessing. Nerf ratting?

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Originally by: Tira 0'TooIe

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Originally by: Jessica Verne

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Its taken you guys 5 pages to verify that high sec needs nerfing? Really, I could have saved you the time.

---

I see you haven't read the latest QEN. The income from ratting dwarfs that of mission running. Plus they're only counting rat bounties, not faction drops, salvage, or loot reprocessing. Nerf ratting?

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Quote:

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What does the "RM100-RM120" refer to here? GBP? Hmmm

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Originally by: Chesty McJubblies

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What does the "RM100-RM120" refer to here? GBP? Hmmm

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Originally by: Moose Burger

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Quote:

---

What does the "RM100-RM120" refer to here? GBP? Hmmm

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Im a secret hax traveller around the world. Acting cool and not afraid of anything.

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Originally by: Another GTC

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Edited by: Another GTC on 23/08/2010 21:50:35

Originally by: Chesty McJubblies

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What does the "RM100-RM120" refer to here? GBP? Hmmm

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Of course RM means GBP, because the *two* letters R and M look a lot like the *three* letters G, B, and P. It was just a typo that he only had *two* letters indicating the currency.

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