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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:16:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 16/08/2010 04:58:20
After reading most of the replies here i came to the realization that many dont get the full concept of what altering local in known space would do. The changes would have a butterfly effect on everything in eve.
If this local thing happens enjoy paying 150%-$250 on all your pvp gear and losing it a lot more often. Here is why:
1) carebears - you know those guys that mine and build stuff so you can pew pew are going to get annoyed cause they cant carebear without a fleet anymore and quit. lets say 25% of carebears quit playing because they are getting screwed over in this deal.
2) Logistics- the logistical nightmare of getting materials and finished products around is going to raise prices.
3) gang friendly- People will solo even less than they do now. Even carebears, the ones that are left, will have escorts. BRs will be the new flavor of the day for hauling.... everywhere. Cloaky ships will be the new flavor of the day for general moving around unless your pew pewing. Good luck scanning those down. Belt ratting is already nearly non existent in low sec compared to 0.0. Sure bored pvpers will kill a few rats here and there for sec stat. But overall there isnt a lot of belt ratting going on in low sec nor mining. Not unless they are doing in pipes cause they sure dont do much of it out of pipes. 0.0 belt ratting might yield a bit better results but considering they have POSes, SSes, intel channel( though less useful now) and they know where all their mates are its not going to be as easy as you think it is.
Removing local or delaying it is a bad idea. It will screw this game up.The prices of goods from POS fuel, to ore, to T2 mods and ships are going to go up. Carebears are going to emoquit. less carebears + more effort to move goods = lower supply = higher demand= higher prices for everything.
Enjoy your 300 mil plus T2 fitted HACs if this goes into effect.
That all sounds pretty good to me. How soon can we get this done?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:19:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
If this local thing happens enjoy paying 150%-$250 on all your pvp gear and losing it a lot more often. Here is why:
1) carebears - you know those guys that mine and build stuff so you can pew pew are going to get annoyed cause they cant carebear without a fleet anymore and quit.
No. There are plenty of industrialists to go around to replace them.
Quote:
2) Logistics
3) gang friendly
àso people will play smarter? And this is bad, is it? 
Quote:
Cloaky ships will be the new flavor of the day for general moving around unless your pew pewing.
So, same as usual.
Quote:
Removing local or delaying it is a bad idea. It will screw this game up.The prices of goods from POS fuel, to ore, to T2 mods and ships are going to go up.
Not really. Everything is as easy to produce as before, and done in the same places ù where carebears go and do their thing, nothing will change. Logistics changes are insignificant. Oh, and lower supply does not mean higher demand.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:24:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Super Whopper
I can't believe you guys are still responding to this thread. Let me explain Akita's motives.
- Akita wants CCP to remove local in 0.0 so they kill whatever's keft of EVE, they're doing that anyway so why not help them a little?
- Akita is a troll.
Its not surprising that people respond to a troll.
Its surprising that so many people enthusiastically agree with her suggestion which is obviously meant to wreck EVE some more.
1) Akita has a long history of posting some of the most thoughtful pieces on these boards. Calling him/her (statistically, him) a troll just belies your lack of effective argument.
2) Googling your username + "battleclinic," I do not think you know how to play this game very well, if at all, and consequently your ideas on what would make this game better or worse are hard to take seriously.
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Mister Swift
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:37:00 -
[124]
+1.
Some ideas:
- Allow players to join/leave Local at will.
- Long range/Off grid: Ships, gates, stations etc. automatically and constantly passively scan for (pilotted) ships up to a max distance and at a specific interval dependant on sensor strength & signature radius.
Long range results only return approximate ship class (based on sig radius), unless both parties are set to positive standing, in which case it returns ship name, type and pilot name.
- Short range/On grid: Will return ship name, type and pilot name, regardless of standing.
- Ships, gates, stations share these results to anyone in system with positive standing.
This means:
- Blues in system will get full information of everyone entering through gates and on-grid with gates/stations/other blues. They will also get vague information of anyone in scanning range of above.
- Reds will only have full information of fleet/corp/friends, and vague information of anyone within scanning range of fleet/corp/friends.
- People who enter via wormholes or covert cyno won't appear on Local Intel unless picked up on scanner or seen on-grid by someone with positive standings to you.
- People who enter via cynos won't appear immediately on Local Intel unless some sort of scouting probe (upgrade) is sent to monitor the grid the cyno is on.
- Local Intel should be sortable by standings, corp, alliance, fleet and security status for pilots with known information. Unidentified ships should be able to be sorted by sig radius.
- Every time Local Intel refreshes and there is a difference in number of ships, show the current numbers as well as the difference in brackets.
- Perhaps have a disableable built-in transponder module that hides pilot name from gates and stations (but never players) when off. Disabling it while flying in high-sec could flag you as a criminal or some such.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:43:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
..If this local thing happens enjoy paying 150%-$250 on all your pvp gear and losing it a lot more often. Here is why:
1) carebears - you know those guys that mine and build stuff so you can pew pew are going to get annoyed cause they cant carebear without a fleet anymore and quit. lets say 25% of carebears quit playing because they are getting screwed over in this deal.
The mins come from highsec (missionrunning, beltmining) and w-space anyways.. your point is moot.
Also, stuff has never been cheaper than now.
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
2) Logistics- the logistical nightmare of getting materials and finished products around is going to raise prices.
What has logistics to do with delayed local? If you move stuff you move it.. If I move stuff I don't care what's in the system.
Make gatesafespots.. scan the gates before approaching and then MOVE.
What do you need local for this?
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
3) gang friendly- People will solo even less than they do now. Even carebears, the ones that are left, will have escorts. BRs will be the new flavor of the day for hauling.... everywhere. Cloaky ships will be the new flavor of the day for general moving around unless your pew pewing. Good luck scanning those down. Belt ratting is already nearly non existent in low sec compared to 0.0. Sure bored pvpers will kill a few rats here and there for sec stat. But overall there isnt a lot of belt ratting going on in low sec nor mining. Not unless they are doing in pipes cause they sure dont do much of it out of pipes. 0.0 belt ratting might yield a bit better results but considering they have POSes, SSes, intel channel( though less useful now) and they know where all their mates are its not going to be as easy as you think it is.
BRs are the FOTM for moving stuff around.. check numbers of sales if you don't believe me.
Belt ratting in low is ****ty compared with lvl4 and the risk already there.. FUBAR is FUBAR.
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Removing local or delaying it is a bad idea. It will screw this game up. The prices of goods from POS fuel, to ore, to T2 mods and ships are going to go up. Carebears are going to emoquit. less carebears + more effort to move goods = lower supply = higher demand= higher prices for everything.
Enjoy your 300 mil plus T2 fitted HACs if this goes into effect.
Carebears have no right in null/low sec..
Either you can take the heat or not.
Also the w-bears show that this works.. d-scan is a pain in the ass, but that's the case for BOTH sides.
Make it delayed, like w-space I say.
PS: Yes, I'm a BR-flyer with no real intentions for pvp (be it solo or in gang/blob..).
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Mister Swift
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:45:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Mister Swift on 16/08/2010 08:46:11
Whoops, double post.
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Vanakov Mek'lanavar
Phoenix Tribe
Art of Defiance
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Posted - 2010.08.16 08:54:00 -
[127]
yes plz. we need local delayed mode
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Cailais
Amarr
THE ORDAINED
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Posted - 2010.08.16 09:27:00 -
[128]
I think if you removed local in null sec (or elsewhere) then pretty much every ship would use a cloak, and covert ops ships (recons, SBs, B Ops) would become the 'norm' - at least for Null Sec.
Null Sec is more densely populated than W Space - its probably not fair to compare the two in this instance, and traversing across Null Sec is a rather different experience to the slow plod of moving through the unpredictable nature of W Space.
On that basis I don't think removing local entirely would be a 'good thing'.
That said the use of 'covert' ships is hamstrung by the use of local as a immediate intel tool. Now you can look at this two ways. One, cloaks do just that "cloak" which is different to pure stealth and covert operations. On the other hand the naming conventions of ships like the 'Stealth' Bomber suggest that these ships aught to be able to operate in such a fashion.
My personal preference would be for localised areas (for example around asteroid belts) to act as "cover from view" - i.e whilst in proximity to say an asteroid belt you are removed from the local channel. This might allow cloaked ships and regular uncloaked ships to ambush or seek cover - only revealing the player when they warp to another location.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.08.16 09:45:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
1) Akita has a long history of posting some of the most thoughtful pieces on these boards. Calling him/her (statistically, him) a troll just belies your lack of effective argument.
2) Googling your username + "battleclinic," I do not think you know how to play this game very well, if at all, and consequently your ideas on what would make this game better or worse are hard to take seriously.
While you're wasting your life away staring at killboards I have been reading the bitter tone of his posts.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.08.16 09:59:00 -
[130]
Yes, because I mentioned battleclinic, it stands to reason that I spend 16 hours a day, 7 days a week with my eyes glued to killboards. Good call, and an effective rebuttal.
Also, because you think someone is "bitter," therefore they are a "troll" and have no argument.
Here is how it is: Akita may or may not be bitter. I don't think he is, but whatever. Maybe Akita is bitter. And mad. And crying, right now. None of that detracts or adds to anyone's argument. He is putting forth an argument. All you are doing is going "TROLL TROLL I AIN'T LISTENING" (which, incidentally, does not lend credence to the idea that the other guy is the bitter one, for what it's worth).
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Flibertygibbet
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:10:00 -
[131]
how about instead of local, just make everyones ship explode.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:36:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Super Whopper on 16/08/2010 10:38:10
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Yes, because I mentioned battleclinic, it stands to reason that I spend 16 hours a day, 7 days a week with my eyes glued to killboards. Good call, and an effective rebuttal.
Also, because you think someone is "bitter," therefore they are a "troll" and have no argument.
Here is how it is: Akita may or may not be bitter. I don't think he is, but whatever. Maybe Akita is bitter. And mad. And crying, right now. None of that detracts or adds to anyone's argument. He is putting forth an argument. All you are doing is going "TROLL TROLL I AIN'T LISTENING" (which, incidentally, does not lend credence to the idea that the other guy is the bitter one, for what it's worth).
0/10 Raise your intelligence level before poasting whatever argument you're trying to put forth. And you want credence? Post something people care about, this horse was flogged to death years ago. It's obvious you haven't been playing long, or else you'd know this nonsensical argument has been discussed for years and years and you know what the conclusion is? That you fail and need to find something new to fight for because this proposal died long, long ago. But what hasn't died is Akita's trolling.
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
how about instead of local, just make everyones ship explode.
Best proposal so far. Upon undock your ship goes boom.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.08.16 11:28:00 -
[133]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 16/08/2010 11:29:12
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
how about instead of local, just make everyones ship explode.
Best proposal so far. Upon undock your ship goes boom.
Inteligent level of those repplies suggest ...
Upon undock YOUR characters should be automaticcly biomassed and your hard drives formatted.
0% of arguments , 100 % of trolling.
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zaqq
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.16 11:46:00 -
[134]
just have all the players under a year old in one system, so this muppet can pod at will.
in a world so full of smart asses, why is the world goin to pot ? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:08:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
1) Akita has a long history of posting some of the most thoughtful pieces on these boards. Calling him/her (statistically, him) a troll just belies your lack of effective argument.
2) Googling your username + "battleclinic," I do not think you know how to play this game very well, if at all, and consequently your ideas on what would make this game better or worse are hard to take seriously.
Akita tends to predict doom and gloom scenarios that never come into frutition. He has been predicting the fall of Eve for a long time now. And yes, one day Eve will die (hopefully not any time soon). And Akita will take credit for it ("See? I told you so!"). He may have some good economic posts (I'd say they're rare), but he tends to stuff them with biased, inaccurate, useless and bitter comments, usually in the form of insults towards CCP, "CCP, U suck I can do this better than you!" attitude.
Akita is not the harmless econo-centric carebear he claims to be.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:19:00 -
[136]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Akita is not the harmless econo-centric carebear he claims to be.
Dun-duuun-duuuuuuuuuun !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:30:00 -
[137]
How about remove 0.0 and low sec altogether.
If you want it any more emptier then what we have now, then we might as well remove everything, make pvp only coming from wardecs, and jita node upgraded to 2400.
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Chr1st OnABike
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:38:00 -
[138]
No.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:53:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 16/08/2010 12:53:22
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Carebears have no right in null/low sec..
Either you can take the heat or not.
Also the w-bears show that this works.. d-scan is a pain in the ass, but that's the case for BOTH sides.
Make it delayed, like w-space I say.
PS: Yes, I'm a BR-flyer with no real intentions for pvp (be it solo or in gang/blob..).
People who think that as some carebears can be found in W-Space, so delayed local can be applied to null-sec, only show how much they are stupid.
W-space != Null-sec, for obvious reasons. Well, not so obvious when you are an idiot who probably never go in null-sec nor w-space... I hate doing that, but no kills is recorded about you, so I doubt that you go at least one time in this sectors...
Also, think that carebears has no rights in null-sec is just funny to read. "Delayed Local" supporters want to get more kills, but in the same time, want do everything to make them leave all sectors where they can shoot them. It is a great contradiction.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
What has logistics to do with delayed local? If you move stuff you move it.. If I move stuff I don't care what's in the system.
Make gatesafespots.. scan the gates before approaching and then MOVE.
What do you need local for this?
Maybe YOU don't care. Others probably will. To move our jumpfreigters, we take care of what we can find in Local. It is better to take care, than stupidly lose a ship who cost 4 Billions plus the Cargo. With Delayed Local, it will be difficult to move them efficiently.
So I can confirm, you are an idiot.
_______
With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have.
- John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment |
heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:10:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
1) Akita has a long history of posting some of the most thoughtful pieces on these boards. Calling him/her (statistically, him) a troll just belies your lack of effective argument.
hahaha, obviously an alt to actually beleive that.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:12:00 -
[141]
You know what's funny ?
That even after CCP themselves have stated they don't like the way the local channel is being used as an intel tool AND even after the motion for switching 0.0 local to "delayed mode" has passed CSM approval nearly a year ago, SOME people in here can still claim with a straight face that whoever wants 0.0 on delayed mode is "part of a small vocal minority" or that "CCP doesn't want that".
WRONG.
CCP would like to put 0.0 on "delayed mode", and the majority of people want that too.
It's just that "IT IS NOT A BIG PRIORITY" for the time being.
Of course, to make the transition, a lot of OTHER stuff would also be better if it was changed, to counter some of the (partially legitimate) concerns raised in here by some of the more logical-minded opponents of the idea of delayed local in 0.0, and that's why it needs to be a high-priority-thing first, before any of it can happen "safely".
But it won't be a priority at all for the next year and a half, if not longer before it really becomes high-priority.
And THAT is not allright with me, and that's why this thread exists.
The only part where you can even BEGIN to accuse me of "trolling" (it's actually a combination of hyperbole and sarcasm, but whatever) is the part where I half-jokingly suggest they should just do it without bothering to make any of the necessary adjustments and just let everything sort itself out however it might develop.
You could say that is absurd, and that CCP would never ever do anything stupid like that... in that case, I can point a finger to several cases where CCP _has_ done something like that in spite of community warnings, and things ended up much closer to where the community predicted than where CCP said it hoped it would end up. So, you know, nothing new under the sun, people just adapt eventually no matter what situation.
Some of you called me bitter - well, hells yeah, I am bitter... wouldn't YOU be ? Don't answer that, you'd either lie in general, or just lie to yourself, or maybe you don't have the necessary background to properly answer it.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Celestine Santora
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:15:00 -
[142]
I support this idea. A chat channel should NOT be the primary intel gathering tool in the game
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Vexion Daran
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:17:00 -
[143]
Akita...you my favo whiner...you are...seeing you in most threads commenting against CCP...brings tears to my eyes.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:21:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Vexion Daran
commenting against CCP
Another funny thing is that right now I am actually commenting IN FAVOUR of (at least part of) CCP, and only against those in CCP that decide "what's urgent now and what can wait".
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:21:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Akita T
You know what's funny ?
That even after CCP themselves have stated they don't like the way the local channel is being used as an intel tool AND even after the motion for switching 0.0 local to "delayed mode" has passed CSM approval nearly a year ago, SOME people in here can still claim with a straight face that whoever wants 0.0 on delayed mode is "part of a small vocal minority" or that "CCP doesn't want that".
WRONG.
CCP would like to put 0.0 on "delayed mode", and the majority of people want that too.
It's just that "IT IS NOT A BIG PRIORITY" for the time being.
Of course, to make the transition, a lot of OTHER stuff would also be better if it was changed, to counter some of the (partially legitimate) concerns raised in here by some of the more logical-minded opponents of the idea of delayed local in 0.0, and that's why it needs to be a high-priority-thing first, before any of it can happen "safely".
But it won't be a priority at all for the next year and a half, if not longer before it really becomes high-priority.
And THAT is not allright with me, and that's why this thread exists.
The only part where you can even BEGIN to accuse me of "trolling" (it's actually a combination of hyperbole and sarcasm, but whatever) is the part where I half-jokingly suggest they should just do it without bothering to make any of the necessary adjustments and just let everything sort itself out however it might develop.
You could say that is absurd, and that CCP would never ever do anything stupid like that... in that case, I can point a finger to several cases where CCP _has_ done something like that in spite of community warnings, and things ended up much closer to where the community predicted than where CCP said it hoped it would end up. So, you know, nothing new under the sun, people just adapt eventually no matter what situation.
Some of you called me bitter - well, hells yeah, I am bitter... wouldn't YOU be ? Don't answer that, you'd either lie in general, or just lie to yourself, or maybe you don't have the necessary background to properly answer it.
Again, the vocal minority is those of you stomping your feet crying that CCP should remove local without carefully analyzing how the change would affect Eve as a whole. A drastic change like this NEEDS balancing.
Local eventually will go. But it will be accompanied by changes necessary to keep the game somewhat balanced. Now, if you don't like the current direction of the game may I suggest you put your characters in an 18-month hiatus and return once things are more to your liking? Seriously, you're going to give yourself an aneurism.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Vexion Daran
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:22:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Vexion Daran on 16/08/2010 13:22:34
Akita -> What ever way you want it bud.
Matrix -> very good option.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:25:00 -
[147]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Local eventually will go.
Not soon enough.
Quote:
the vocal minority is those of you stomping your feet crying that CCP should remove local without carefully analyzing how the change would affect Eve as a whole
In case you only skimmed the part about hyperbole and sarcasm, nobody was SERIOUSLY suggesting any of that.
The only actual "suggestion" (if you can even call it that) is that they should hurry the hell up.
Quote:
Seriously, you're going to give yourself an aneurysm.
The rage level is far below my usual average.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Vexion Daran
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:29:00 -
[148]
Taking meds against the rage?
next to that....why do people feel free to start telling CCP what to do even when not asked for an opinion. And next to that...you think CCP will take this whining seriously or you think that they will consider a serious post that is posted by someone that shows respect en next to telling what is wrong, also can give CCP a good option to work with....
hmmm.....hard choice i think.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:33:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Vexion Daran
why do people feel free to start telling CCP what to do even when not asked for an opinion.
It's a forum. Look it up.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Vexion Daran
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:34:00 -
[150]
Is that a wildcard for idiots to complain in or is it a way to communicate with the rest of the community and CCP?
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