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Isn't it about time local was changed to delayed mode already ?

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KhaniKirai	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:36:00 - [181] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: KhaniKirai Beside: you should ask better questions, because your questions are vague as well and dont mean anything in the current vague form, nobody can even really read, what you are trying to say? Pls, explain your own view better first. Risk vs reward: pvp-ers barely take any risks in 0.0, its often the miners and industrials that take the most risks with their assets and ships. Why do you want it even more unbalanced for them with delayed local? First line (well, your entire post): I can't answer your questions so here is a bunch of derp. Second line: I know nothing about the game of Eve, let me open my mouth and prove it. Nice work. Do you fail professionally or is it just a hobby of yours? Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: KhaniKirai Sorry, but delayed local, just means gankers get it easier. ok so answer me these questions three: how could it possibly be any easier for carebears? how could it possibly be any harder for gankers? are you suggesting risk vs reward is an obsolete or invalid concept? (the third one is kind of important as the entire game is built upon it) Well lets look at these very vague questions. Which carebears are you referring too? I wrote "carebears" pvp whiners. Thats not the standard carebear definition most people use in eve. Since personally I most industrialist and miners, that want to make their own home in 0.0 are taking WAY more risks then the socalled pvp-er that often only has a few ships and some spare mods and ammo in 0.0 Yet your question is so vague, that nobody can read from it, if you are now replying to my "carebears" pvp whiners, or the traditional carebear. Sorry, its just too vague, not my fault. Second question: how could it be possible any harder for gankers. Sorry, I have no idea why you are asking that question to me, I havent said anything that it would be harder for gankers. Again a silly vague question, that shouldnt belong in a discussion, its more the type question a troll will ask, who cant stand it, that people do not want their beloved "delayed local". Third question : You are talking about a risk vs reward mechanisme in its total form, without placing it into a context of the game. On that moment, the question is totally vague and just not usefull in a discussion at all. Sorry, but if you want to take part of a discussion, then define your questions better, then people can answer them.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:55:00 - [182] Q: Are you stupid? A: well... define stupid. this is all too difficult and not my fault. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:56:00 - [183] I support this. I think it's definitely a needed change. Effortless perfect intel for free does not improve the game. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.08.16 22:21:00 - [184] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Super Whopper I can't believe you guys are still responding to this thread. Let me explain Akita's motives. - Akita wants CCP to remove local in 0.0 so they kill whatever's keft of EVE, they're doing that anyway so why not help them a little? - Akita is a troll. Its not surprising that people respond to a troll. Its surprising that so many people enthusiastically agree with her suggestion which is obviously meant to wreck EVE some more. 1) Akita has a long history of posting some of the most thoughtful pieces on these boards. Calling him/her (statistically, him) a troll just belies your lack of effective argument. 2) Googling your username + "battleclinic," I do not think you know how to play this game very well, if at all, and consequently your ideas on what would make this game better or worse are hard to take seriously. I have a long history of reading posts on the forums. Lately I think Acura is intentionally trying to cause issue over stuff she doesnt even belive herself. I say this because Acura has a history of being smart. I suspect she is bored or annoyed with the game as I said. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2010.08.16 22:25:00 - [185] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Considering the majority of carebears are in highsec, and the thread is clearly about nullsec*, I stopped reading right there. Really? All the "important" carebears are in 0.0. Think about it. The carebears that mass produce goods and moon mine and do reactions.... all low and null sec.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2010.08.16 22:32:00 - [186] Originally by: Razin Dude, do you even read what you are replying to? Try and see how many of those presenting arguments for delayed local in this thread fit your description of a "vocal minority" above? A minority of eve players post or even read the forums. Even less do it regularly.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.16 22:39:00 - [187] Edited by: Intigo on 16/08/2010 22:39:14 Delayed local = everyone farming anomalies in 0.0 now would go back to hisec and farm missions. 0.0 is deserted in terms of carebear work. Yay? ... ___________________
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.16 23:10:00 - [188] Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 16/08/2010 22:39:14 Delayed local = everyone farming anomalies in 0.0 now would go back to hisec and farm missions. 0.0 is deserted in terms of carebear work. Yay? ... Yes then we can all sit in cloaked ships all day and scan for targets and complain about too few people in 0.0 while carebearing in empire on our alts.
THERisingPHOENIX Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association	Posted - 2010.08.16 23:52:00 - [189] Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 16/08/2010 22:39:14 Delayed local = everyone farming anomalies in 0.0 now would go back to hisec and farm missions. 0.0 is deserted in terms of carebear work. Yay? ... Not really.. Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. This Delayed Local begin talked about would have some balance affect, it would make people get caught and killed easily but at the same time make it harder for the PvPer to know if anyone is at local. Personally I think this would help covert ops ship more since its barely possible to get through camp bubble with can spams when u hop in ur Covert in local and they see u. Pvp would be more challenging I guess with less, hop in for easy kill on ratters and vanish out again. Also Pvper would have the element of surprise and make 0.0 feel more like 0.0. Carebear mining? I dunno how they would benefit from this, the roids at 0.0 are barely touched at 0.0 and maybe something to help their survivability longer is welcomed. If this would be considered to be added then Onboard Scanner and Probes is needed to be adjusted to suit the change. I think maybe other change not only to local is needed. Like belt formation etc. E.g. Belts would be like Ice belts spreading out over 200km long. < ---(Warp in 0 wont make all ratters/miners instant goners anymore) And possibly other warpable celestial object.
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.08.17 00:34:00 - [190] Edited by: Stitcher on 17/08/2010 00:39:21 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Not really.. Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. I've seen some great big steaming piles of bull in my time, but that right there is one of the most average. "everyone knows..." No, what YOU "know" is one thing, what the majority WANT is quite another, and the reality of what would be best is wildly different again. nullsec Local is not broken and it doesn't need fixing. The number of people who think it does are a tiny minority, and CCP have quite rightly said time and again that they have no plans to change it. Old and pointless recurring topic is old and pointless. HTFU. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp	Posted - 2010.08.17 00:38:00 - [191] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 17/08/2010 00:42:15 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. This Delayed Local begin talked about would have some balance affect, it would make people get caught and killed easily but at the same time make it harder for the PvPer to know if anyone is at local. Not really harder. It would be harder only the first time : You go into the system, you check the system map, you create one or two bookmarks who will cover most of the belts of the system by the dscan... Then everytime you go in this system, you just have to warp and scan, and leave or begin the hunting depending of the result. Time to check it after the first time : 3 minutes ? 4 minutes ? Also, you have the "Average players in the last 30 minutes" of the map to help you finding a target. In the opposite side, the ratter will have to scan all the time (if no good compromise of local is created, who can't exist imo)... If it works in W-Space, this is because there is no gates, so less traffic, so even with delayed local, security remains correct. _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
THERisingPHOENIX Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association	Posted - 2010.08.17 00:44:00 - [192] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 17/08/2010 00:39:21 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Not really.. Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. I've seen some great big steaming piles of bull in my time, but that right there is one of the most average. "everyone knows..." No, what YOU "know" is one thing, what the majority WANT is quite another, and the reality of what would be best is wildly different again. nullsec Local is not broken and it doesn't need fixing. The number of people who think it does are a tiny minority, and CCP have quite rightly said time and again that they have no plans to change it. Old and pointless recurring topic is old and pointless. HTFU. Your reply is pointless to us, it wont make them stop suggesting the idea anyway.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.08.17 00:54:00 - [193] Originally by: Sky Marshal In the opposite side, the ratter will have to scan all the time (if no good compromise of local is created, who can't exist imo)... geeez... you make it sound like it would be RISKY or something can't have that --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp	Posted - 2010.08.17 01:15:00 - [194] You should try to scan each two seconds with the dscan to know if there is someone. Sure, you will find this process uber great, will you ? _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
THERisingPHOENIX Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association	Posted - 2010.08.17 01:33:00 - [195] Edited by: THERisingPHOENIX on 17/08/2010 01:34:31 Originally by: Sky Marshal You should try to scan each two seconds with the dscan to know if there is someone. Sure, you will find this process uber great, will you ? Thats why I mentioned onboard scanner to have some adjustment to it. May some auto radar system that auto cycle scan for some mins/secs? Would be like the system we have atm and for long range scan, you have to do manually. Surely Eve Ships is not that stupid :D?
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp	Posted - 2010.08.17 01:46:00 - [196] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 17/08/2010 01:45:59 It will affect the server, as check the dscan automatically or manually, even not all two seconds, is not the same computation work than just add a name in the local of each player of the system. But I agree, at least, ships have emotions : When there are too much players in a system, they are afraid to activate guns even if we want too _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
So Sensational GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.08.17 01:53:00 - [197] Originally by: Akita T Isn't it about time local was changed to delayed mode already ? You know, like in w-space. Not just 0.0, but ALL of it. Radical and cruel ? Maybe. But very EVE-y. Waah waah AFK cloaker syndrome ? HTFU. But but but ? NO. I very much not at all interesting in pres butan for made system scan each 5 seconds.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2010.08.17 02:41:00 - [198] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 17/08/2010 00:42:15 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. This Delayed Local begin talked about would have some balance affect, it would make people get caught and killed easily but at the same time make it harder for the PvPer to know if anyone is at local. Not really harder. It would be harder only the first time : You go into the system, you check the system map, you create one or two bookmarks who will cover most of the belts of the system by the dscan... Then everytime you go in this system, you just have to warp and scan, and leave or begin the hunting depending of the result. Time to check it after the first time : 3 minutes ? 4 minutes ? Also, you have the "Average players in the last 30 minutes" of the map to help you finding a target. In the opposite side, the ratter will have to scan all the time (if no good compromise of local is created, who can't exist imo)... If it works in W-Space, this is because there is no gates, so less traffic, so even with delayed local, security remains correct. The other reason this works in W- space is because you just cant warp to objects and find people expect maybe to a moon in which you might find people + shields+ guns. all ratting and mining areas plus exits have to be scanned out. The carebears that live in WH space have POSes for SS. Also you have WH restictions. You cant just take a 200 man BS fleet through every WH. If you can get 50 in some cases you are doing really good. You cant just pop a cyno and rain caps down and titan bridge fleets in. W space is nothing like 0.0. The only thing they have in common is they are both null sec. But the similarities stop there. BKs are saved to the server. No local is going to add a bunch more BKs the server will have to deal with. Everyone is going be BKing every system they travel through. having to scan constantly means adding loads to servers than cant handle the loads now. 25k people pressing scan even every 30 sec is going to cause unnecessary lag. Their is no good reason to remove local from known space. Especially not please a few lazy PvPers that want it to be even easier to gank people and screw the rest of the game up in the process. The only way this is even remotely feasible is if its replaced with something that is similar that doesnt require spamming scanners every 30 seconds. In which case their is no reason to remove it. Why fix something that isnt broke, when so many things are broke?
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.08.17 03:08:00 - [199] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 17/08/2010 03:09:25 Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 17/08/2010 00:39:21 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Not really.. Everyone knows that Local is in the need to change and CCP might be considering this seriously later on. I've seen some great big steaming piles of bull in my time, but that right there is one of the most average. "everyone knows..." No, what YOU "know" is one thing, what the majority WANT is quite another, and the reality of what would be best is wildly different again. nullsec Local is not broken and it doesn't need fixing. The number of people who think it does are a tiny minority, and CCP have quite rightly said time and again that they have no plans to change it. Old and pointless recurring topic is old and pointless. HTFU. Your an idiot, and every part of your post is wrong. In fact, in this VERY THREAD, the dev remarks concerning local being broken and in need of a fix are actually IN PRINT. The devs know it, the guys in 0.0 know it, the ratters and botters know it. I'm sorry your upset by the shocking revelation that someday, they will eventually fix it (they're only a year late, but w/e)), but he is RIGHT, in fact EVERYONE but YOU knows it needs to be fixed. If you doubt me, you can read back, find the post (first 2 or 3 pages afaik) and then go search for it to know its true. CCP have quite literally said that local is in need of a change, because its an overpowered intel tool. EDIT: went and found it for you brah! Originally by: Razin Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab I hear 10.000 players continuously running directional scan macros make good server performance. C/D? CCP Zulu: Originally by: CCP Zulu "Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least." "Local: I'm hoping we'll have something done to local in 0.0 in q1 next year." "Timeframe for local changes: I'd like to see it q1 next year but I can't really promise it. I'll do everything I can to make it happen though :)" "Local changes: Yeah, I actually thought that was so obvious that I didn't need to mention it. But yes, any changes to local will of course have to be hand-in-hand with changes to scanning mechanics. You must be able to somehow get quick-ish intel on the basic status of the system you're in." I bolded the relevant quote, in case you have difficulties finding it.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.08.17 03:59:00 - [200] Wouldnt simply removing the on board scanner(along with adding delayed local) be a good move? Make the game more hard core for both sides? Wherever you went - Here you are.
T0KER	Posted - 2010.08.17 04:37:00 - [201] Supported
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.08.17 05:27:00 - [202] Originally by: Grath Telkin yakkety freakin' schmackety I reject your reality and substitute my own. :D in all seriousness though, whether or not I've got my factrs right the defining rule of EVE for me is right there in those four letters at the end of my post - HTFU. I think things are fine right now and the people busting their balls in favour of delayed local should just deal with the way things are because it works. I don't want to see it change, but if it does, then I'll adapt to the new system and get on with life. Just like everyone else who doesn't want it would have to (although I wish to god the sensible ones posted in EVE-General more often because it would REALLY improve the tone of this forum) I mean, it's not like delayed local would be a BETTER system imo - just a different system, with its own advantages and disadvantages just like the present state of affairs has. the current system has a nice smooth transition where nullsec is still a little bit civilized before you get out into the wilds of W-space. now, I could get behind a partial system where any ship with a cloaking device fitted causes the owner to behave as if the system is in delayed mode, and give covops, recons or black ops the option of deploying some kind of local jamming probe that hangs around in space for ten minutes during which time the system puts itself in delayed mode without announcing the fact, but lighting a cyno field would immediately counter the effects of said probe. The point is to put information warfare in the hands of the players after all, not to just turn it the hell off. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
cheet sheet	Posted - 2010.08.17 05:50:00 - [203] Originally by: Super Whopper I can't believe you guys are still responding to this thread. Let me explain Akita's motives. - Akita wants CCP to remove local in 0.0 so they kill whatever's keft of EVE, they're doing that anyway so why not help them a little? - Akita is a troll. Yer Akita is a player who knows nothing about eve where its come from and where its going its ALL ABOUT HIM
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.17 07:39:00 - [204] Edited by: Akita T on 17/08/2010 07:45:31 Originally by: Super Whopper Akita is a successful troll. FYP Originally by: So Sensational I very much not at all interesting in pres butan for made system scan each 5 seconds. -> "the scanner could be changed to compensate - basically, bring back the ancient "Elite-looking" radar of early EVE clients, and in it, constantly display (visually) ALL things that would show up on a d-scan that is set on max-range and 360 degrees." Originally by: Stitcher now, I could get behind a partial system where any ship with a cloaking device fitted causes the owner to behave as if the system is in delayed mode, and give covops, recons or black ops the option of deploying some kind of local jamming probe that hangs around in space for ten minutes during which time the system puts itself in delayed mode without announcing the fact, but lighting a cyno field would immediately counter the effects of said probe. The point is to put information warfare in the hands of the players after all, not to just turn it the hell off. Well, if that's your yardstick, then you can't possibly be happy with the current situation, since there's no info warfare to speak of except AFK cloaking and logoffski. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.08.17 14:15:00 - [205] Originally by: Stitcher (although I wish to god the sensible ones posted in EVE-General more often because it would REALLY improve the tone of this forum) I couldnÆt agree more. It is becoming excruciatingly boring to see pseudo-meme one-liners in response to an attempt to explain. Originally by: Stitcher I mean, it's not like delayed local would be a BETTER system imo - just a different system, with its own advantages and disadvantages just like the present state of affairs has. This is pretty easy to dispute. The current system is simplistic in providing extremely important information to everyone for free, instantly, and at infinite range. The proposed system will provide the same information, but only to those who take the risk and effort to obtain it. DonÆt tell me you donÆt see the difference. The implications are many û from making ambushes finally possible without resorting to metagaming, to the actual immersion feeling of infinite space. Originally by: Stitcher the current system has a nice smooth transition where nullsec is still a little bit civilized before you get out into the wilds of W-space. IMO the presence of set travel routes via stargates, and outposts provide plenty of transition. Originally by: Stitcher The point is to put information warfare in the hands of the players after all Delayed local will do just that. For example it will require dedicated scouts to provide information for intel channels instead of anyone that happened to be in the system ratting or parked in a POS. Try and sneak around any alliance territory and see how it takes them to put a blob together to catch you. All because it takes no effort to track you; youÆre always visible in local. ...
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp	Posted - 2010.08.17 14:39:00 - [206] Originally by: Razin Delayed local will do just that. For example it will require dedicated scouts to provide information for intel channels instead of anyone that happened to be in the system ratting or parked in a POS. Try and sneak around any alliance territory and see how it takes them to put a blob together to catch you. All because it takes no effort to track you; you’re always visible in local. Ok... And you would accept to stay like a goon (not the ones we know) around a gate, so in front of your computer for hours, just to provide intel to others players who will... play ? Even for some Isk, it is just stunning. It would be fun for you, isn't it ? _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
Shepard Book Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.08.17 14:52:00 - [207] My vote is to remove local from 0.0 and everywhere but mostly 0.0. I never liked the idea of being able to see who is in local. It is a free warning for the hunters and the hunted alike. I expect removing local would ease the load on servers in 0.0 quite a bit. Certain alliances like to flood local as an exploit to lag people even more. I would take delayed if that was the only thing available though.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.08.17 15:04:00 - [208] Originally by: Sky Marshal Originally by: Razin Delayed local will do just that. For example it will require dedicated scouts to provide information for intel channels instead of anyone that happened to be in the system ratting or parked in a POS. Try and sneak around any alliance territory and see how it takes them to put a blob together to catch you. All because it takes no effort to track you; youÆre always visible in local. Ok... And you would accept to stay like a goon (not the ones we know) around a gate, so in front of your computer for hours, just to provide intel to others players who will... play ? Even for some Isk, it is just stunning. It would be fun for you, isn't it ? Well, some people like mining. And there is nothing wrong with that. In addition, if intel is provided by a dedicated group, processes will get optimized, optimal locations will be found, etc. The thing will acquire a life of its own. It'll just be another aspect of the sanbox. ...
Straight Hustlin Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.17 15:07:00 - [209] As much as I would love for local to be removed, I feel that simply removing it or replacing it with a delayed mode is kinda lame, especially if the scanner remains unchanged. Rather I would prefer to see the whole thing rexamined and overhauled as a whole using new mechanics, for example something that would take into account mass, signature radius & distance to target. Just imagine that, Are you scanning down a handful of BS, or is it a much larger group of HAC's? But I think theres so much that needs to be changed for everything to work well together, for instance, have you ever considered how odd it is that you can find out everything you could want to know about any system by simply looking up its name? Shouldn't you have to atleast go there and do some scanning to know where all the moons and belts and every other fcking thing is? Could you imagine if you had to look for stargates instead of just knowing where every flippin one is? It could be incredible. EVE could have alot more of that cold dark feeling where your venturing out into the unknown void; but it requires removing the instantanious & all encompassing information we have access to, and local is only a part of that.
So Sensational GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.08.17 15:16:00 - [210] Originally by: Akita T -> "the scanner could be changed to compensate - basically, bring back the ancient "Elite-looking" radar of early EVE clients, and in it, constantly display (visually) ALL things that would show up on a d-scan that is set on max-range and 360 degrees." Yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that the data shows that polished features don't sell as well as new content. In theory I like the idea.

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