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Drakes - Do they need a nerf?

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Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.13 13:24:00 - [901] How would ceptors have 500% more sig radius in web range? Anyway short range drake vs long range beam comparison was only because infinity made exactly the same comparison (he even equipped a myrm with ACs with faction long range ammo, lol @ long range ammo in ACs). Drakes are nowhere near the best choice in 90% of the cases. For nano action i take a cane every day over a drake. For instapopping approaching frigs i take a cane / binger any day over a drake. For versatility the myrmidon is just way superior. What the drake is very good at is just raw tank * gank. This has a role, but definately not the only role. And you can stuck your head in the sand and act like there are no other ships, but there are other ships. At this tank * gank role they are completely outperformed against a competent BS fleet. Which is why still more 0.0 alliances use the BS as backbone of their fleet than drakes.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 13:45:00 - [902] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/12/2010 13:46:42 Originally by: Furb Killer How would ceptors have 500% more sig radius in web range? Anyway short range drake vs long range beam comparison was only because infinity made exactly the same comparison (he even equipped a myrm with ACs with faction long range ammo, lol @ long range ammo in ACs). Drakes are nowhere near the best choice in 90% of the cases. For nano action i take a cane every day over a drake. For instapopping approaching frigs i take a cane / binger any day over a drake. For versatility the myrmidon is just way superior. What the drake is very good at is just raw tank * gank. This has a role, but definately not the only role. And you can stuck your head in the sand and act like there are no other ships, but there are other ships. At this tank * gank role they are completely outperformed against a competent BS fleet. Which is why still more 0.0 alliances use the BS as backbone of their fleet than drakes. I didn't equip them, they were top rated fits on battleclinic. As for the ammo type, it was simply to show that even with the longest range ammo, you still can't hit the hml drake. Equipping short range ammo would have been even more futile at 70k Also comparing drakes to BS is kindof proving the point of them being overpowered dont you think? --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.13 14:06:00 - [903] Originally by: Furb Killer How would ceptors have 500% more sig radius in web range? Anyway short range drake vs long range beam comparison was only because infinity made exactly the same comparison (he even equipped a myrm with ACs with faction long range ammo, lol @ long range ammo in ACs). Drakes are nowhere near the best choice in 90% of the cases. For nano action i take a cane every day over a drake. For instapopping approaching frigs i take a cane / binger any day over a drake. For versatility the myrmidon is just way superior. What the drake is very good at is just raw tank * gank. This has a role, but definately not the only role. And you can stuck your head in the sand and act like there are no other ships, but there are other ships. At this tank * gank role they are completely outperformed against a competent BS fleet. Which is why still more 0.0 alliances use the BS as backbone of their fleet than drakes. Sorry, I forgot about the sig radius bonus ceptors have with MWD's. But a nano drake will have two webs, and a Drake gang will have more than one Drake... but fine, I'm happy to concede that the cane makes a better anti-ceptor ship than the Drake. However, I'm not willing to concede that the only thing the Drake does well is tank*gank. You say you'll take a nano cane over a nano drake any day, but that is personal preference, not a measure of the power of those setups. I do not fly Drakes due to principle, but if you'd like I can arrange a 1v1 with your nano cane against one of my buddies nano drakes if you like. As for the myrm and versatility, I can think of only one situation where it would perform better than the Drake - being swarmed by frigates at 0km.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits.	Posted - 2010.12.13 14:09:00 - [904] Edited by: Korg Leaf on 13/12/2010 14:09:30 Nano cane or drake arent built for going 1v1 on each other, they are built for landing near a gang killing some stuff then getting out, and in that situation the nano cane excels as it can hit the smaller ships much harder which makes it easier to avoid scrams. A 1v1 between a nano drake and nano cane becomes a tank/gank fight not a fight about which is the better nano ship
Ulstan	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:37:00 - [905] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Also comparing drakes to BS is kindof proving the point of them being overpowered dont you think? Not at all. They should be compared to BS because BS fleets are what is supposed to counter BC fleets of ships with nice juicy huge sigs that BS weapons can hit for full damage. BS fleets smash drake fleets just fine. More gank, more tank, more range. But people don't fly BS fleets for other reasons. And that's the problem. Not the drake, which is not in the least overpowered compared to the other BC's. They all have useful and well defined roles to fill. Only one that I think needs help is the Myrmidon. Harbinger and Hurricane are truly awesome and amazing ships.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 20:32:00 - [906] Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Infinity Ziona Also comparing drakes to BS is kindof proving the point of them being overpowered dont you think? Not at all. They should be compared to BS because BS fleets are what is supposed to counter BC fleets of ships with nice juicy huge sigs that BS weapons can hit for full damage. BS fleets smash drake fleets just fine. More gank, more tank, more range. But people don't fly BS fleets for other reasons. And that's the problem. Not the drake, which is not in the least overpowered compared to the other BC's. They all have useful and well defined roles to fill. Only one that I think needs help is the Myrmidon. Harbinger and Hurricane are truly awesome and amazing ships. What your missing is you need BS fleet to counter drake fleets because the other 3 BC's have no hope of even hitting the drake for any damage at the drakes 70km range, while the drake can hit them for full damage at that range. The hurricane can close and get in range but in the time it takes for it to do that, its taking full damage from the drake and has half the EHP. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:50:00 - [907] Stop being a **** and playing a range game with drakes then. Get a fast small ship that drakes can't hit for ** to get a warp in right on top of them. Get a cloaky ship to get a warp in right on top of them. Kill their tackle and warp away from them. Trying to sit at range and snipe missile chuckers is stupid they will just tank you all day long. If you or your FC can't figure that out, then you should not be PVPing. Its a simple concept. Stop letting other people dictate terms. I garuntee if you take a nano/gank cane fleet with logi and park yourself in the middle of the drake fleet you will kill far more than you lose.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:46:00 - [908] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Stop being a **** and playing a range game with drakes then. Get a fast small ship that drakes can't hit for ** to get a warp in right on top of them. Get a cloaky ship to get a warp in right on top of them. Kill their tackle and warp away from them. Trying to sit at range and snipe missile chuckers is stupid they will just tank you all day long. If you or your FC can't figure that out, then you should not be PVPing. Its a simple concept. Stop letting other people dictate terms. I garuntee if you take a nano/gank cane fleet with logi and park yourself in the middle of the drake fleet you will kill far more than you lose. That doesn't solve the imbalance its just a way around the imbalance. This is about drakes being OP not fleet tactics. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Kai Yuen	Posted - 2010.12.14 07:07:00 - [909] Originally by: Infinity Ziona That doesn't solve the imbalance its just a way around the imbalance. This is about drakes being OP not fleet tactics. Anything's OP when you fight it out of your element and firmly in theirs. Look at Angel ships. They dominate the small gang world, especially Dramiel's, and Machariels are sniping gods, yet you don't see thread upon thread dedicated to just them. The only real imbalance is the ratio of shield to armor tankers in EVE and the viability of the BCs natural predator, the battleship. In terms of t2 BCs, the Drake is the one and only shield tank. Everything else was clearly designed for armor, so of course when it comes to a shield fleet you'd take the only shield tank available. Combine that with the sudden decline in battleships and now you have a ship class with nothing above it on the food chain. Doesn't sound like said ship class is to blame. It's a symptom of the problem, not the source. Nerfing the symptoms is like cutting off your head because you have a head ache. A purely impulsive and premature decision, not to mention fatal.
sian miller	Posted - 2010.12.14 07:35:00 - [910] Nerf the cargo bay to 400m3.

Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:12:00 - [911] Originally by: Kai Yuen Originally by: Infinity Ziona That doesn't solve the imbalance its just a way around the imbalance. This is about drakes being OP not fleet tactics. Anything's OP when you fight it out of your element and firmly in theirs. Look at Angel ships. They dominate the small gang world, especially Dramiel's, and Machariels are sniping gods, yet you don't see thread upon thread dedicated to just them. The only real imbalance is the ratio of shield to armor tankers in EVE and the viability of the BCs natural predator, the battleship. In terms of t2 BCs, the Drake is the one and only shield tank. Everything else was clearly designed for armor, so of course when it comes to a shield fleet you'd take the only shield tank available. Combine that with the sudden decline in battleships and now you have a ship class with nothing above it on the food chain. Doesn't sound like said ship class is to blame. It's a symptom of the problem, not the source. Nerfing the symptoms is like cutting off your head because you have a head ache. A purely impulsive and premature decision, not to mention fatal. Angel ships are expensive, skill intensive(piloting skill and SP), and can be neuted and TD'd. These things are what you would call "counters", and all of these things can be done very easily with much cheaper ships. Paper will beat Angel's rock, but the only way to beat a Drake's rock is with... two rocks.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:46:00 - [912] Originally by: Aerilis Angel ships are expensive, skill intensive(piloting skill and SP), and can be neuted and TD'd. These things are what you would call "counters", and all of these things can be done very easily with much cheaper ships. Paper will beat Angel's rock, but the only way to beat a Drake's rock is with... two rocks. Yes Angel Ships do happen to die when you build your set up specifically around killing angel ships. Oops, did I say die, I meant escape because the only thing that can catch them before they leave is a Rapier. The only way to beat a Drakes Rock huh, well the Harbinger will do it at close range, so will the active Myrm, at long range, pick a Battleship any Battleship. The other battlecruisers can fight the Drake at close range on there turf easy. Yet you are complaining the Drake does it better at it's prefered range. -- I can not decide on a sig yet. Under Construction.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:47:00 - [913] You must be bad. Tell me where the mean drake touched you. If you can not escape a ship sitting @ 50/60/70/80K you are a ******. Also FYI Drakes can be jammed, sensor damped, targeting disrupted. Its Missile Damage can be entirely negated, by smartbombs, or defender missiles, or simply MWD.ABing away from the drake. Or you can stop being stupid. Get a Fast ship like a Dram to burn into the enemy fleet warp on top of them and rip them apart. There is absolutely no reason to sit at 70K and watch as the drakes slowly pick you apart 1 by 1. 1. Kill their tackle and Warp off. 2. Get a Warp in on the fleet. 3. Burn away from them. 4. Bring BS support. 5. Use EWAR
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:52:00 - [914] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 14/12/2010 13:52:46 Originally by: Pinky Starstrider 1. Kill their tackle and Warp off. 2. Get a Warp in on the fleet. 3. Burn away from them. 4. Bring BS support. 5. Use EWAR I am afraid that stratagy is incorrect. The correct stratagy is to sit and stare at the screen slack jawed as you die. Then run to the forums and call for a nerf. L2Tactics Sir and stop talking bout warp in's and counters. -- I can not decide on a sig yet. Under Construction.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 14:05:00 - [915] Edited by: Aerilis on 14/12/2010 14:12:50 Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Aerilis Angel ships are expensive, skill intensive(piloting skill and SP), and can be neuted and TD'd. These things are what you would call "counters", and all of these things can be done very easily with much cheaper ships. Paper will beat Angel's rock, but the only way to beat a Drake's rock is with... two rocks. Yes Angel Ships do happen to die when you build your set up specifically around killing angel ships. Oops, did I say die, I meant escape because the only thing that can catch them before they leave is a Rapier. The only way to beat a Drakes Rock huh, well the Harbinger will do it at close range, so will the active Myrm, at long range, pick a Battleship any Battleship. The other battlecruisers can fight the Drake at close range on there turf easy. Yet you are complaining the Drake does it better at it's prefered range. Harb is about the only ship that can take a HAM Drake on at close range. Myrm will just get kited and have its drones killed until it runs out of cap boosters. Originally by: Pinky Starstrider You must be bad. Tell me where the mean drake touched you. If you can not escape a ship sitting @ 50/60/70/80K you are a ******. Also FYI Drakes can be jammed, sensor damped, targeting disrupted. Its Missile Damage can be entirely negated, by smartbombs, or defender missiles, or simply MWD.ABing away from the drake. Or you can stop being stupid. Get a Fast ship like a Dram to burn into the enemy fleet warp on top of them and rip them apart. There is absolutely no reason to sit at 70K and watch as the drakes slowly pick you apart 1 by 1. 1. Kill their tackle and Warp off. 2. Get a Warp in on the fleet. 3. Burn away from them. 4. Bring BS support. 5. Use EWAR 1. Cool, that was a great fight. Now theres two fleets without tackle. 2. Yeah, because range Drake fleets always sit still. 3. And that's going to help me kill them... how? 4&5. Refer to my original point about the only way to beat Drakes is to use bigger/expensiver/more skill intensive ships. Also, lolhotdrop if you bring BS. edit--about ewar--lol did you say sensor damps? Have you ever used sensor damps? Oh and Drake is the hardest BC to jam. Just another area where it is the best BC.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 17:17:00 - [916] 1. then don't *** about bringing a knife to a gun fight. 2. and you can out run them in any other ship BC and under. 3. Yes you run targetting range scripts and knock them down to 40-50K Range and even the range fight 4. Again why bring a knife to a gun fight. Stop fighting on their terms, drake is great at range, not great at close fights. Bring Ships that can combat the range fight, such as BS. Or bring the fight on top of them via a warp in. Stop trying to make canes and ** seem underpowered when they can chew HML and HAM drakes up in a 25K range fight. (hint either kite a HAM drake out of range, or Grossly out DPS a HML drake.)
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:05:00 - [917] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider 1. then don't *** about bringing a knife to a gun fight. 2. and you can out run them in any other ship BC and under. 3. Yes you run targetting range scripts and knock them down to 40-50K Range and even the range fight 4. Again why bring a knife to a gun fight. Stop fighting on their terms, drake is great at range, not great at close fights. Bring Ships that can combat the range fight, such as BS. Or bring the fight on top of them via a warp in. Stop trying to make canes and ** seem underpowered when they can chew HML and HAM drakes up in a 25K range fight. (hint either kite a HAM drake out of range, or Grossly out DPS a HML drake.) Again with the sensor damps. You're going to knock down all the Drake's range to 40km? Just how many Arazus do you have? Alright fine, let's do a mental exercise shall we. Let's use these so-called "tactics" and get a warp in. Go hero dramiel pilot! You got behind the Drakes? Excellent! Fleet warp! Alright we landed right on top of them! Drakes are only good at range, now we're fighting on "our terms"! Time to "chew" them out! Oh WTF they're tanked to hell its taking forever to kill them? Alright we got a couple... next primary is XYZ in a Drake! What do you mean hes 50km off already? All the Drakes burned out in random directions around us so theres no possible way to close range on all of them? Fleet bail bail bail! And you just lost half your fleet and killed two Drakes. Don't say you can "chew" out Drakes at 0km, whether they're HAM fit or HML fit Drakes can tank*gank as well if not better than any other BC in the game in regards to close range combat.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:12:00 - [918] maybe you should stick to shooting asteroids, apparently shutting down a drake fleet is above your capabilities.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:12:00 - [919] The problem isn't that the drake is too good at any one role (close perhaps) but that it is too versatile relative to the other BC's in that it does almost as well as any of the others that often have very limited effectiveness outside what they do best. In many instances the drake can peform mutiple roles well without refitting ..too.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:27:00 - [920] Edited by: Aerilis on 14/12/2010 18:34:19 Originally by: Pinky Starstrider maybe you should stick to shooting asteroids, apparently shutting down a drake fleet is above your capabilities. I'm all ears, tell me what clever tactic you have that doesn't involve 3x the amount of ISK and SP that the Drake fleet has. edit-looked you up on BC, found out that you fly almost exclusively Drakes. Oh, what a surprise.

Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:33:00 - [921] Yep, Considering I have a grand total of 5 million SP it allows me to participate within a fleet environment. Although you shouldn't really believe everything you read about <1 year old pilots.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:37:00 - [922] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Although you shouldn't really believe everything you read about <1 year old pilots. If you're trying to imply something about your skill, I can see that most of your kills are also noobs/haulers/eve-uni. You're not exactly qualified to give me a lecture on fleet tactics. But still, I'm curious. Answer my original question as to how you would counter a Drake fleet without requiring 3x the ISK and SP the Drake fleet has.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:43:00 - [923] No I am implying you shouldn't be so naive that I am posting on a 1 year old character so obviously means I have no prior experience. I have listed numerous times how I would counter drake fleets, go back and read through this silly thread or just this last page. (also If you think an arazu is the only ship that can Target Range damp a drake you are a larger moron than I initially thought.)
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:49:00 - [924] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider No I am implying you shouldn't be so naive that I am posting on a 1 year old character so obviously means I have no prior experience. I have listed numerous times how I would counter drake fleets, go back and read through this silly thread or just this last page. (also If you think an arazu is the only ship that can Target Range damp a drake you are a larger moron than I initially thought.) And I have shown you that they either don't work, or require an exorbitant amount of ISK/SP as compared to the Drake fleet. And I said Arazus because any ship without a boost to RSD's isn't going to be able get a Drake below 50% lock range due to stacking penalties. But of course that requires you actually know how sensor damps work, rather than ignorantly calling people stupid because they don't use them.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 19:04:00 - [925] maybe you should EFT what 2 unbonused Sensor Damps with Tracking Range scripts do to a drake. Or even 1. You might sound a little less silly when you see 1 cane can effectively knock a drake down to 25K using 2 of them.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.14 20:57:00 - [926] Edited by: Aerilis on 14/12/2010 21:05:09 Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 14/12/2010 19:32:36 Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 14/12/2010 19:19:05 maybe you should EFT what 2 unbonused Sensor Damps with Tracking Range scripts do to a drake. Or even 1. You might sound a little less silly when you see 1 cane can effectively knock a drake down to 25K using 2 of them. Oh and still kite the drakes @ 30K out of lock range, and hit them out to 34 @ 519 DPS inc drones. Sooooo 0 DPS vs 519 now who is OP? Or better yet fit a myrm with 2 and watch as drones kill them for 50K out while sitting back with 107K EHP That at all level 5 skills, which brings it to 27.2 KM. More realistically, he'll have a little more than 30km lock range. Also, you're forgetting that your optimal with sensor damps is 45km with all level 5 skills. Realistically, maybe a little over 40. THIS MEANS. You will commit 2 medium slots to sensor dampeners JUST SO you can fight Drakes in a 10km engagement window. edit: Any armor setup will instantly not work, as Drake will dictate range over you. edit2: You realize you do half damage at falloff range right? Which means most of your setups do about 300 damage. Drake peak recharge is about 150-200 DPS. You figure. edit3: If you'd like, I'll get one of my friends who flies a Drake to 1v1 any of those setups. If you win, I'll pay you one billion ISK. Should be a peace of cake for a "drake killer" right? If you don't have the skills, you can get one of your corpmates to do it for you. As long as its one of those fits.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.14 23:41:00 - [927] Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 14/12/2010 23:44:55 Yes you have about a 50% chance for the damp to fail or not. Something that may or may not occur 50% of the time. Using 2 gives you roughly a 75% chance that 1 will activate and reduce the drakes range to under 50K (which is where you will be) as you get closer your % off effect rises. The only real trouble zone is the last 10 meter's or so until you enter optimal range @ which point the fight becomes more one sided as the drake can do nothing until you enter his targeting range @ 27K. Now you asked why would I use sensor damps..... why not. If I am having issues with a ranged group of attackers, and I know it is fruitless for me to try and match range, the next best thing is to eliminate that range. Forcing them to either Move in to me, allow me to move into them, or leave the field of battle entirely. Is it wasting 2 mid slots (3 since all three of these ships require a Sensor Booster to reach the range for Optimal+Falloff.) The three ships to which the sensor booster is applied gain nothing from these slots outside of unneeded tackle. All of these ships have a higher top speed than the drakes, meaning you are always closing in. All but the Harb are over 50K EHP, however all have a decent buffer to allow Logi to tank for them. As for the peak recharge DPS tank of the drake. You are misinformed. In order to obtain 200 shield HP/s you need shield recharges, SPR's and Purger rigs. The drake on page one is Only getting a tank of 130DPS, its recharge peak is 36HP/s. Now you could argue logi will change things, which it will for a bit. Unless you force them off the field or just get so much Damage that it doesn't matter anymore. You made a claim that drake fleets are so OP it isn't funny. When they are nothing of the sort, and are only using their range bonus to their advantage. When forced onto the close range turf, the drakes are at a disadvantage in terms of DPS, and Kite Tanks. You seem to be acting like drakes will instapop you, they might get a few people, but once the damps are on them, they will not be getting anyone anymore. By all means take a friend out and try it out. You fly in a big mean drake and watch as you are reduced to uselessness. Its a similar tactic SB gangs use to Sit inside 20K to keep points on their targets while the tickle them to death.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:02:00 - [928] A single Enyo holding point on a drake is enough to crack it. Two Assult Frigs on a drake will kill it. Drakes have an issue with heavy assult frigs Fast movement (Lower DPS), solid resistances + Reps, two AF is enough DPS to crack shield and drop cap to unusable levels with NoS. Just takes a little bit. Thats the current counter. I've also seen Drakes drop in 1v1 to Myrmidons, and sometimes to Hurricanes. In Fleet fights they usually are the last to be primaried. The DPS Tanks on these ships are the only things that need to be scaled back a little bit. Drop the natural recharge rate by 15-20% and the ship will be more in line with what its supposed to be IMOP.
Pinky Starstrider	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:10:00 - [929] Your opinion is ******ed. It may have a slightly higher DPS tank, but its sig radius is fecking huge. Put a drake and a cane against a BS see who last longer. Nerfing the drakes passive recharge isn't going to stop people from complaining. Unless you think 36 hp/s a second at peak is impossible to overcome.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:16:00 - [930] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 14/12/2010 23:44:55 Yes you have about a 50% chance for the damp to fail or not. Something that may or may not occur 50% of the time. Using 2 gives you roughly a 75% chance that 1 will activate and reduce the drakes range to under 50K (which is where you will be) as you get closer your % off effect rises. The only real trouble zone is the last 10 meter's or so until you enter optimal range @ which point the fight becomes more one sided as the drake can do nothing until you enter his targeting range @ 27K. Now you asked why would I use sensor damps..... why not. If I am having issues with a ranged group of attackers, and I know it is fruitless for me to try and match range, the next best thing is to eliminate that range. Forcing them to either Move in to me, allow me to move into them, or leave the field of battle entirely. Is it wasting 2 mid slots (3 since all three of these ships require a Sensor Booster to reach the range for Optimal+Falloff.) The three ships to which the sensor booster is applied gain nothing from these slots outside of unneeded tackle. All of these ships have a higher top speed than the drakes, meaning you are always closing in. All but the Harb are over 50K EHP, however all have a decent buffer to allow Logi to tank for them. As for the peak recharge DPS tank of the drake. You are misinformed. In order to obtain 200 shield HP/s you need shield recharges, SPR's and Purger rigs. The drake on page one is Only getting a tank of 130DPS, its recharge peak is 36HP/s. Now you could argue logi will change things, which it will for a bit. Unless you force them off the field or just get so much Damage that it doesn't matter anymore. You made a claim that drake fleets are so OP it isn't funny. When they are nothing of the sort, and are only using their range bonus to their advantage. When forced onto the close range turf, the drakes are at a disadvantage in terms of DPS, and Kite Tanks. You seem to be acting like drakes will instapop you, they might get a few people, but once the damps are on them, they will not be getting anyone anymore. By all means take a friend out and try it out. You fly in a big mean drake and watch as you are reduced to uselessness. Its a similar tactic SB gangs use to Sit inside 20K to keep points on their targets while the tickle them to death. OK this obviously isn't getting through to you. I'm going to try another angle. You're saying the Drake's so-called weakness is that it can be damped, and therefore its ranged capabilities reduced. But the Drake has the strongest electronics and sensors of ANY BC. Any kind of ewar that works on the Drake would be more effective against any other BC (besides the Ferox). If the Drake had the weakest sensors, then it would be a legitimate weakness. Even if you're in the situation where you can get the jump on Drakes with sensor damps/ecm/etc, this only works in solo/small gang situations. There is no way to coordinate ewar against a gang of 50 Drakes, which leaves that issue completely unresolved. And none of me EFT Drake setups has less than 150 DPS passive recharge (except the nano one of course) and I assure you I don't have any SPR's or purgers, so IDK.



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