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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:00:00 -
[1]
CCP Zulu's new dev blog details our future ShaderModel support. Read all about it here.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:05:00 -
[2]
Sounds expected and normal to me.
meanwhile, I'll wait for the naysayers and doom merchants.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:12:00 -
[3]
Looking forward to the stuffs.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Golden Gnu
Gallente The Golden Gnu Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:23:00 -
[4]
How many people will be affected by this...? _________________ Download is the meaning of life, upload is the meaning of intelligent life EVE.NiKR.NET - home of jEveAssets |
Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Golden Gnu How many people will be affected by this...?
Probably not very many. Moving up to a minimum of Shader Model 2 more or less forced everyone on older GPUs to buy Shader Model 3 cards already.
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CCP Zulu
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:51:00 -
[6]
Our best metric is the Steam hardware report and general trending in hardware sales etc. Applying some common sense and logic and a few assumptions we deduce that around 3% of the EVE player base don't support SM3 today but at the current trend that will be down well below 1% early next year.
Of course we wanted to get this message out there with plenty of lead time so people could prepare, bringing that 1% down to 0% since you all know about it now :)
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RiotRick
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: RiotRick on 08/10/2010 09:54:26 Shader Model 3.0 as minimum seems like a sensible requirement. Even my work laptop has a shader model 3.0 card (ati x1350).
But.... I qoute:
"Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing"
Will we get anti-aliasing support then?
--
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Dp Wiz
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:54:00 -
[8]
Any roadmap to DX10/11?
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FatFreddy
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:04:00 -
[9]
Quote: keep setting the bar higher for excellence.
First one to point and laugh.
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed a comment that isn't related to guild recruitment.
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Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 08/10/2010 10:06:28 I don't know about EVE players, but Valve's hardware survey shows that 85.5% of people have at least SM 4.0 (Direct-X 10 cards) and 6.0% of people have SM 2.0 or below. Unfortunately the category for the remaining 8.5% includes both SM 3.0 and SM 2.0b. Two cards in the detailed list (X700 and X800) are definitely SM 2.0b, for 3.1% of that, and some fraction of the "other" 3.6% will be too.
So the real figure for people with less than SM 3.0 is between 9.1% and 12.7%. At least for the valve survey. nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
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Talkietoaster
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:05:00 -
[11]
Main workstation -> check ok Laptop -> check ok
I'm safe, bring it on
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MissyDark
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Of course we wanted to get this message out there with plenty of lead time so people could prepare, bringing that 1% down to 0% since you all know about it now :)
Well it's a computer game so the support for cellphone-grade hardware is not required. I'm surprised you didn't drop the support for ancient gfx cards yearlier :)
Less branched code is a better code, thumbs up.
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CCP Zulu
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 08/10/2010 10:06:28 I don't know about EVE players, but Valve's hardware survey shows that 85.5% of people have at least SM 4.0 (Direct-X 10 cards) and 6.0% of people have SM 2.0 or below. Unfortunately the category for the remaining 8.5% includes both SM 3.0 and SM 2.0b. Two cards in the detailed list (X700 and X800) are definitely SM 2.0b, for 3.1% of that, and some fraction of the "other" 3.6% will be too.
So the real figure for people with less than SM 3.0 is between 9.1% and 12.7%. At least for the valve survey.
That's true, but the Steam survey isn't our only data point. We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:17:00 -
[14]
Let the crying commence... Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Zulu
That's true, but the Steam survey isn't our only data point. We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
I would agree with that. I started posting before your reply, but digging in the hardware survey took a while :) nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Our best metric is the Steam hardware report and general trending in hardware sales etc. Applying some common sense and logic and a few assumptions we deduce that around 3% of the EVE player base don't support SM3 today but at the current trend that will be down well below 1% early next year.
Of course we wanted to get this message out there with plenty of lead time so people could prepare, bringing that 1% down to 0% since you all know about it now :)
Fair enough. Even years-old low end video cards support SM3, and there's a limit to the age of legacy hardware you can reasonably be expected to support in a graphically focused game.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari Rapid Pod Transport
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Posted - 2010.10.08 10:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Our best metric is the Steam hardware report and general trending in hardware sales etc.
Can't you just add a bit of code to EVE client to collect such data? I am sure it's not huge privacy violation (you can also make it non-mandatory).
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:07:00 -
[18]
If my couple years old laptop supports it then clearly this isn't such a big deal.
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Kaahles
Fulcrum Weapon Systems Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kaahles on 08/10/2010 11:09:49 Wondered when you guys would drop the support for those old relics. I mean seriously those SM 2.0 cards are ancient history that also involves cave-painting (at least if you look at the time scale of hardware development, take into account how long you can expect to run a machine with a certain hardware and still play games).
Looking forward to the whines tbh cause especially this is a topic that usually produces a lot of laughter for me.
Okay I confess I play with the low-shader settings myself at the moment but that's because my machine is total crap and won't run 2 clients with SM 3.0 active. Actually I'm even surprised that two clients on this piece of **** is even possible. Time to go hardware shopping... if those darn sandy bridge cpu's would hit the market already |
Dan Grobag
Caldari French Empire Squad
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:09:00 -
[20]
I want an ASCII EVE.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dan Grobag I want an ASCII EVE.
CCP Urist cancels action change skills on netbooks: Need more eye candy.
Tough luck about netbooks, but otherwise, I doubt anyone will care about this change.
Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
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Kaahles
Fulcrum Weapon Systems Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:27:00 -
[22]
Netbook skill changes are practical but hey I think that's why such a function is planned for EVE Gate soonÖ But yeah would be kinda nice if that function goes live around the same timeframe the new system requirements hit. Btw my personal guess: they'll hit with the release of Incarna. You read it here first ----------------------------- OMG THE SKY IS FALLING! Contract me all your stuff so I can save it! |
Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:30:00 -
[23]
Absolutely! Increased Eve gate functionality is a great way to make Eve "playable" on netbooks.
Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
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Gil Danastre
Amarr 5TH Combat Training Squadron
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:35:00 -
[24]
Seconding the SM4.0 question. How long till EVE is looking like the end of the Empyrean Age trailer?
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari Rapid Pod Transport
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Posted - 2010.10.08 11:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 08/10/2010 11:59:09
Originally by: Kaahles Netbook skill changes are practical but hey I think that's why such a function is planned for EVE Gate soonÖ
I seriously doubt that it will be ever possible to change skills through web. It's too simple to write a bot to change skills automatically. This is scenario CCP tries to avoid.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:03:00 -
[26]
Thanks for the little app. I would have been p*ssed if it had said my card didn't support 3.0 but it apparently does...
So yeah, whatever, out with the old and in with the new!
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Alyssa Kaeda
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:04:00 -
[27]
So you decided to "conviniently" forget those that use netbooks (mine is under a year old now) for the on the road skill changing / corp chatting.
This is a decision that on the surface looks good but again shoots your long time customers in the leg.
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FatFreddy
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alyssa Kaeda So you decided to "conviniently" forget those that use netbooks (mine is under a year old now) for the on the road skill changing / corp chatting.
This is a decision that on the surface looks good but again shoots your long time customers in the leg.
There are limits even to raging at CCP.
Complaining that a netbook doesn't run current games is like complaining that you're not allowed to ride a bicycle on the highway.
If you need your on the road chatting so dearly, you should think about buying a cheap, small notebook. Netbooks are already antiquated anyway.
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed a comment that isn't related to guild recruitment.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:28:00 -
[29]
My game box is fine. My laptop is screwed. I should have a new one by Q2 though anyway.
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alyssa Kaeda So you decided to "conviniently" forget those that use netbooks (mine is under a year old now) for the on the road skill changing / corp chatting.
This is a decision that on the surface looks good but again shoots your long time customers in the leg.
Tbh, if said long term customer chose to buy a devices not built for gaming, to run games on, not much can be done to help said customer once education has already failed. That said, I thought part of the future eve-gate project was the changing of skills via the browser. Although I could be wrong, seeing as the customer is paying for the game, and seeing as web browsers run on everything down to mobile phones, that would solve everyone problem.
Still this wont change the wave of people who will complain of ccp making the base requirement the same as the rest of the industry has had for years. Also, that's a long period of notice, and brand new sm4.0 cards can be had today for ú30 ffs ***The EVE servers and their patches***
[b]"the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells b |
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Rimbombante
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:51:00 -
[31]
Goodbye 9600XT... o7
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:53:00 -
[32]
About bloody time, awesome.
Main PC - SM4.0 2.5 year old laptop - SM4.0 HTPC - SM4.0 File server with integrated graphics - not supported, rabble rabble rabble
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Gun Hog
Caldari Ardent Industrial DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:07:00 -
[33]
My Craptop does not support SM3.... I am poor, so I guess I will be sticking to my PC. It sucks to be me in a world where in about 3 years now it might be possible for Android phones to run EVE.
I hope you guys do not plan on moving to SM4 for at least another 5 years! _______________________________________________
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:19:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rimbombante Goodbye 9600XT... o7
He served well, and can retire with honour.
Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:21:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 08/10/2010 13:24:16
So it's time for another "you must be this shady to play EVE" announcement
...
(Shady. Shader Model. Get it? Argh, alright, fine, stop throwing rotten vegetables! )
I support this move. It is a very long term notice, and I'm not at all surprised, considering that "a yet-to-be-announced date in Q2 2011" just happens to coincide so nicely with the expected release of Incarna/walking in stations and its associated graphics engine.
Honestly, the PC I had before I bought my current one four years ago already had SM3.0 support. Any video card that does not will be too slow to do more than sit in a station hangar anyway.
However, CCP, take note: You better include anti-aliasing this time around, or I shall take up the single pitchfork I found in the old garden shed, light a single torch leftover from halloween celebrations, and solo-angry-mob you all for great justice!
Signature? What signature? |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:24:00 -
[36]
CCP Please allow a check of shader before you let people download the game.
I've had several friends decide to try eve, download it, go to bed, then try to install it to be very ****ed.
Yeah their video cards sucked, but seriously, it is easy to do, and does burn so much good will.
If someone runs the check and sees they can't play because their vid isn't good enough, they are more likely to upgrade and then try Eve, vs upgrade and not download that damn game again. =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
Kristie Morgan
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel CCP Please allow a check of shader before you let people download the game.
I've had several friends decide to try eve, download it, go to bed, then try to install it to be very ****ed.
Yeah their video cards sucked, but seriously, it is easy to do, and does burn so much good will.
If someone runs the check and sees they can't play because their vid isn't good enough, they are more likely to upgrade and then try Eve, vs upgrade and not download that damn game again.
Well, thats kind of their fault for not looking at the system requirements. I'd much rather see CCP devote effort to more useful things.
Also, glad to see Eve is moving further down the tech road.
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BaliAgha
Sky Guard Mercenaries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: BaliAgha on 08/10/2010 13:42:27 Ummm, the file you have us download to check our shader version is 0kb in size and the zip file has no files in it
Might need to address..
Edit: After the third time downloading it looks like it actually downloaded something. Odd..
[SKYGM] Sky Guard Mercenaries |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: BaliAgha Edited by: BaliAgha on 08/10/2010 13:42:27 Ummm, the file you have us download to check our shader version is 0kb in size and the zip file has no files in it
Might need to address..
Edit: After the third time downloading it looks like it actually downloaded something. Odd..
Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest msvcr80.dll SM3Checker.exe should be in it. Total crap on a mac of course.
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TorTorden
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:01:00 -
[40]
Edited by: TorTorden on 08/10/2010 14:02:32 If memory serves a SM3 capable card should be in the <50$ range already, and thats new.
Might be a bigger issue for laptops, but then again, they arent as insane as before, there are just fine laptops out there in the normal 'office' price range with gpu's, as a thumb rule buy something thats not intel GMA, says "integrated" or shared graphics memory. ------------------------------------------------ There is no such thing as good or evil. Just an egotistic struggle for self empowerment. ------------------------------------------------ |
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Wujen Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:05:00 -
[41]
I fully support this move, may I also request we get DX11 support, and drop all support for Windows XP
* basks in the hate *
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand snip
So the real figure for people with less than SM 3.0 is between 9.1% and 12.7%. At least for the valve survey.
That's true, but the Steam survey isn't our only data point. We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
Will quote you on this once this goes life and we got some threads about it :D
About the rest of that blog.. nice PR. We'll see how that turned out in 15 months
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:10:00 -
[43]
1) can you tell us what the cutoff is for Macs since your app does not seem to run on them?
2) Any way this could be used to make sure the "everything but shooting" is in EVEGate by the same time? I.e., my guess is the number of people who have older graphics hardware on their main, at-home, PC is lower. A lot of the too old machines are work machines, previous machines, and laptops that people use for things like market orders and skill queues. Notes also that these will *not* show up on a STEAM/VALVE rerport as that will be running on the main machine. EVEGate will not help with dualboxing, but would at least address the check market / queue from work or previous machine sitting beside me.
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Raquel Smith
Caldari Freedom-Technologies Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:11:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Raquel Smith on 08/10/2010 14:13:57
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu's new dev blog details our future ShaderModel support. Read all about it here.
YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!! Some of us do not run windows and find your .exe-containing-.zip file useless!
Apparently GT 330 is SM4. Horray.
-- Creator of The Ruby API Library |
Mkiaki
Gallente Progressive Business Solutions
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Raquel Smith Edited by: Raquel Smith on 08/10/2010 14:13:57
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu's new dev blog details our future ShaderModel support. Read all about it here.
YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!! Some of us do not run windows and find your .exe-containing-.zip file useless!
Apparently GT 330 is SM4. Horray.
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Brolly
Caldari 13th Legion the lastchancers
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:34:00 -
[46]
Yey, good excuse to upgrade from this aging 8800GTS, granted it has SM 3 support, but I'm bored of it :P
Boo!, I won't be able to log into eve on my 3 year old lappy with the crappy intel GPU. Hopefully I'll have a new lappy by then with a good GPU that I can actually play eve on :D
Would love it if eve adopted DX11 suport as the universe would look awesome with that tesselation McGubbins and all those new bells and whistles.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:38:00 -
[47]
Quote: Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing, it's needed for EVE to perform better.
That's backwards. You need players to upgrade, so you can add more shiny without client performance dropping too much. Also, if the minimum graphic settings are raised, client performance can be expected to get worse in fleet battles.
Not complaining about the announced change tho, both computers here are SM4.0 and 4.1. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Wujen Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:41:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Brolly Yey, good excuse to upgrade from this aging 8800GTS, granted it has SM 3 support, but I'm bored of it :P
Boo!, I won't be able to log into eve on my 3 year old lappy with the crappy intel GPU. Hopefully I'll have a new lappy by then with a good GPU that I can actually play eve on :D
Would love it if eve adopted DX11 suport as the universe would look awesome with that tesselation McGubbins and all those new bells and whistles.
I moved from a G92 8800GTS a few month back to a Sapphire 5770 1GB, awesome card works really well with EvE.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Eclats de verre Astromechanica Federatis
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:42:00 -
[49]
No more switching skills or trading/hauling from my eee pc...
Well, I've been thinking about replacing it for some time... -- Fanfest memories : I looked in your eyes And I found the galaxy Now I'm stuck in eve.
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Mehrune Khan
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:44:00 -
[50]
It was nice they had the shader model 3 checker on the dev blog. I was worried my card wouldn't be able to play EVE but it will. I am using a 512mb ATI Radeon 4330, I can run EVE on high graphics settings right now, but have to turn bloom off or I get low fps. It will be nice to see what they will be doing with the 2011 expansion.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:50:00 -
[51]
My laptop which I already consider old and will probably replace before this change happens runs SM3. If it makes development easier, I'm all for it. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Gehnster
Gallente RED SUN RISING
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:51:00 -
[52]
Why don't you guys just start collecting data yourselves on what EVE players do and don't have hardware wise?
Wouldn't it make your jobs a lot easier plus maybe allow us to get better and better graphics quicker if we are so much more advanced than average gamers? :)
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:52:00 -
[53]
AMD 1090t 16gigs ram 2x HD5770
I hope my comp will be able to handle eve. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Desigre
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 08/10/2010 10:06:28 I don't know about EVE players, but Valve's hardware survey shows that 85.5% of people have at least SM 4.0 (Direct-X 10 cards) and 6.0% of people have SM 2.0 or below. Unfortunately the category for the remaining 8.5% includes both SM 3.0 and SM 2.0b. Two cards in the detailed list (X700 and X800) are definitely SM 2.0b, for 3.1% of that, and some fraction of the "other" 3.6% will be too.
So the real figure for people with less than SM 3.0 is between 9.1% and 12.7%. At least for the valve survey.
That's true, but the Steam survey isn't our only data point. We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
Unfortunetly beliefs are not facts.
So how about ask your player base what hardware they run? Cant be that hard since you allready have that survey system in place somewhere since you allready ask some people something time to time.
Should get you some real facts to suport those decisions.
And while you at it, can we get game bugfree before you fellows try to brake it even more? Please
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.10.08 15:18:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Solbright on 08/10/2010 15:22:20
I vote for a non-textured option for both running on old kit and fleet work.
This has the side benefit of not demanding new art every time there a revamp. :)
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
TheLostPenguin
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Solbright Edited by: Solbright on 08/10/2010 15:22:20
I vote for a non-textured option for both running on old kit and fleet work.
This has the side benefit of not demanding new art every time there a revamp. :)
So basicly you want the "classic" client back running old low res gfx that CCP discontinued with the move to SM2, because they didn't want to support 2 developement streams any more. Shame as that client was better in many ways than the "new" trinity one we're now playing the descendant of, but thats the decision they made a long time ago.
As for "Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing, it's needed for EVE to perform better." I have to laugh, thers such disparity between diferent parts of the client theres far more avaliable with what we have, with this change there really isn't any excuse left for not supporting antialiasing in the client, or getting new ship/weapon models out there (seriously, I get having low-res option to use for fleet fights, but that the models are as old and ugly as at current makes a mockery of "We rework art assets to bring them to and beyond the industry standard" unless you compare to budget browser based MMOs).
Heres hoping this is a sign of some updates to the core client, and not just a sign that the incarna engine is going to be so bloated and inefficent that it'll require anyone not running absolute latest kit to turn settings way down.
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CCP Zulu
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:42:00 -
[57]
To the Mac users: This doesn't change anything, the minimum supported hardware has been Shader Model 3.0 for some time now as per here
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kabaos
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:48:00 -
[58]
Hi. Yes,really need to upgrade EVE i agree with S.M. 3.0 If we stay nothing cool not be!
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Shaun Livingstone
Royal Fleet Auxiliary Collegium Amarria
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:49:00 -
[59]
OMGWTFBBQ! MY LAPTOP DOESN'T SUPPORT SM3 AND ITS ONLY 4 YEARS OLD AND IT WASNT EVEN TOP NOTCH BACK THEN!!!!oneoneonerabblerabblerabble
Finally a reason to get off my fat ass and buy a new computer. The gods be praised. -- Don't shoot. Carebear on board. |
Elojs
Gallente Corp 42
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:52:00 -
[60]
Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary. Over the past year, Eve has been about the only luxury I have managed to afford on a continuing basis. I am not going to speak to the resentments felt by many in the player community about what appears to them to be CCP's lack of responsiveness upon any issue that doesn't qualify as low-hanging fruit, or unusually profitable for CCP. I understand the difficulty in maintaining legacy drivers, and I do agree with it.
However, I would point out that if you wish to force your entire player base to use Eve's minimum requirements as the benchmark for their personal computer systems, you will lose a substantial portion of your player base. Currently, I run Eve on a 5 year old laptop that does not support Shader 3.0. I do not have the resources to upgrade at the present time, nor is it likely that such an upgrade will be possible until I replace my 20 year old automobile, among other expenses that must take higher priority. Therefore, I shall have to quit Eve until such time as I can again afford to play, when the expansion makes it no longer possible to play, on that day, I will bid Eve goodbye.
Congratulations to CCP on mastering at least the worst points of Western Capitalism. Coercion of your customer base is right up there with the monopolistic practices of another large software firm based outside of Silicon Valley.
Try to develop a path that doesn't effectively exclude your customer base, or compel them to replace hardware that is otherwise satisfactory in order to run a single application that is used only a few hours per week.
*Idjits*
Games are not the be all and end all of existence!
|
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Wujen Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:53:00 -
[61]
I would love to have some updated textures and models for all ships, some of them are on par with the quality from Flight Simulator 95!!!
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:18:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Elojs Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary.
FYI either an ATI 38xx series or a NV 8800 series can run SM3.0 perfectly.
...and we're talking about cards that were hot.... 3 years ago? think you can get a 3850 or a 8800GT for peanuts nowadays. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gale Rathers
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:33:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Elojs Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary.
FYI either an ATI 38xx series or a NV 8800 series can run SM3.0 perfectly.
...and we're talking about cards that were hot.... 3 years ago? think you can get a 3850 or a 8800GT for peanuts nowadays.
I actually use an ATI Sapphire HD 3650 and that runs EvE perfectly, got it about 2 years ago IIRC for about ú40, and even someone with a crap job should be able to budget from now till the change date next year and buy the card...
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Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Elojs stuff
Gaming is not the right hobby for you. Well, modern gaming anyway. Upgrading your hardware once in a while is part of gaming - there's no way of looking around it. If you cannot afford that, then gaming is not the hobby for you. ---
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood 1) can you tell us what the cutoff is for Macs since your app does not seem to run on them?
It's already been answered officially, but just to put it into perspective:
My 1st-gen MacBook Air is still supported, and let's be honest ù it's not exactly a graphics-processing powerhouse ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Lev Aeris
b.b.k Saints Amongst Sinners
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: BaliAgha Edited by: BaliAgha on 08/10/2010 13:42:27 Ummm, the file you have us download to check our shader version is 0kb in size and the zip file has no files in it
Might need to address..
Edit: After the third time downloading it looks like it actually downloaded something. Odd..
Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest msvcr80.dll SM3Checker.exe should be in it. Total crap on a mac of course.
Shouldn't there be an app for that? ;p
I'm sure you could find something for 2.99 in the apple store.
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enterprisePSI
Gallente Unimatrix 0.1
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: "CCP Zulu" Ati Radeon
Ati is no more. Tears, or the titan dies!
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Elhym
Solar Nexus. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Elojs *Idjits*
Jumping on this "Games are not the right hobby for you" bandwagon. Maybe you should try Runescape? Or perhaps Ragnarok Online. Or, I don't know, put aside a few dollars per month until the upgrade to simply buy a new video card that is dirt cheap.
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SkintRay
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 18:00:00 -
[69]
I'm affected by this - this means I cannot run EvE on my laptop anymore. No more playing eve in the sofa / at lunchbreak etc :(
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Vak'ran
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 18:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Elojs Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary. Over the past year, Eve has been about the only luxury I have managed to afford on a continuing basis. I am not going to speak to the resentments felt by many in the player community about what appears to them to be CCP's lack of responsiveness upon any issue that doesn't qualify as low-hanging fruit, or unusually profitable for CCP. I understand the difficulty in maintaining legacy drivers, and I do agree with it.
However, I would point out that if you wish to force your entire player base to use Eve's minimum requirements as the benchmark for their personal computer systems, you will lose a substantial portion of your player base. Currently, I run Eve on a 5 year old laptop that does not support Shader 3.0. I do not have the resources to upgrade at the present time, nor is it likely that such an upgrade will be possible until I replace my 20 year old automobile, among other expenses that must take higher priority. Therefore, I shall have to quit Eve until such time as I can again afford to play, when the expansion makes it no longer possible to play, on that day, I will bid Eve goodbye.
Congratulations to CCP on mastering at least the worst points of Western Capitalism. Coercion of your customer base is right up there with the monopolistic practices of another large software firm based outside of Silicon Valley.
Try to develop a path that doesn't effectively exclude your customer base, or compel them to replace hardware that is otherwise satisfactory in order to run a single application that is used only a few hours per week.
*Idjits*
Games are not the be all and end all of existence!
If you have a 5 year old laptop and do not have the funds to replace it at this time, you should also be aware of the inherent risk in buying a laptop. Portable computing comes at an added price, you could have bought 2 PC's of similar specs back then. A non-portable computer could also have been upgraded with a 25-euro/dollar investment in a new card. While this does not compare to current laptop prices, the argument that having a portable computer on your budget is silly stands. If you are bound by a portable computer for RL reasons, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place I¦m afraid, because you will be running into the added cost of such a computer in more than just gaming - what if it breaks?
With your unfortunate computer investment, you are a VERY small minority in the EVE player base. CCP is a business and they please a lot more of their customers by tweaking their time investments for quality rather than extremely broad support.
You are ofcourse entitled to voicing your disappointment, but saying that the developers are making a bad business decision or maintaining an evil business mentality for it is in bad style, imho.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
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Tsabrock
Gallente Circle of Friends
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Posted - 2010.10.08 19:05:00 -
[71]
I knew this change would come eventually. In some ways, I'm surprised it's taken this long. My main systems all can handle SM3 perfectly fine. My old laptop was still SM2.0, but I've barely run EVE on it since the SM2 change as it can barely run EVE at medium settings. But then again, that laptop was never intended to be a gaming laptop, and I got it for a good price at the time.
While I sympathize with people that won't be able to play EVE without an upgrade, they will be in a very small minority. Those with older hardware might have to upgrade anyway before next year due to equipment failure. Those with with netbooks have to realize that they were never designed to be gaming devices. they were designed to be internet devices to fill the gap between a bulky laptop and a cellphone (hence their name). The few netbooks I've seen even have problems running Flash applications well, let alone anything graphically demanding. --- If you've read something I posted and want to contact me, EVE-Mail me, or contact me via EVE Gate. |
R Mika
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:19:00 -
[72]
Its about time.
The ability to update skills through Eve Gate would be a nice compromise, though.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:25:00 -
[73]
What I find ironic is that you can support a handfull of alienware players, but you can't support shadermodel 2.0
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:28:00 -
[74]
Originally by: RiotRick Edited by: RiotRick on 08/10/2010 09:54:26 Shader Model 3.0 as minimum seems like a sensible requirement. Even my work laptop has a shader model 3.0 card (ati x1350).
But.... I qoute:
"Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing"
Will we get anti-aliasing support then?
Since EVE uses HDR, it can't *naturally* use anti-aliasing at the same time. This is due to a fault in DirectX 9. There are various hacks out there which can attempt to force HDR+Antialiasing at the driver level, but it isn't officially supported and frequently stops working whenever you upgrade your video driver. In fact, nHancer - the most commonly used tool for forcing HDR+Antialiasing - no longer works with the current nvidia drivers (and in fact hasn't worked for months).
If CCP wanted EVE Online to have HDR+FSAA, they would essentially have to drop DirectX 9, and give us that DirectX 10 client they have been promising us for years. Except now it would be better for them to skip straight to DirectX 11, since Vista is terribad. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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skye orionis
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:32:00 -
[75]
With everyone on SM3.0 I'll bet you could do some cool looking new effects
Like... say Engine trails, or giant thunderbolt spewing cynojumps for example.
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Rico Ramos
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:37:00 -
[76]
Sweet I'm all good to go.
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riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:42:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Elojs Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary. Over the past year, Eve has been about the only luxury I have managed to afford on a continuing basis. I am not going to speak to the resentments felt by many in the player community about what appears to them to be CCP's lack of responsiveness upon any issue that doesn't qualify as low-hanging fruit, or unusually profitable for CCP. I understand the difficulty in maintaining legacy drivers, and I do agree with it.
However, I would point out that if you wish to force your entire player base to use Eve's minimum requirements as the benchmark for their personal computer systems, you will lose a substantial portion of your player base. Currently, I run Eve on a 5 year old laptop that does not support Shader 3.0. I do not have the resources to upgrade at the present time, nor is it likely that such an upgrade will be possible until I replace my 20 year old automobile, among other expenses that must take higher priority. Therefore, I shall have to quit Eve until such time as I can again afford to play, when the expansion makes it no longer possible to play, on that day, I will bid Eve goodbye.
Congratulations to CCP on mastering at least the worst points of Western Capitalism. Coercion of your customer base is right up there with the monopolistic practices of another large software firm based outside of Silicon Valley.
Try to develop a path that doesn't effectively exclude your customer base, or compel them to replace hardware that is otherwise satisfactory in order to run a single application that is used only a few hours per week.
*Idjits*
Games are not the be all and end all of existence!
If you have a 5 year old laptop and do not have the funds to replace it at this time, you should also be aware of the inherent risk in buying a laptop. Portable computing comes at an added price, you could have bought 2 PC's of similar specs back then. A non-portable computer could also have been upgraded with a 25-euro/dollar investment in a new card. While this does not compare to current laptop prices, the argument that having a portable computer on your budget is silly stands. If you are bound by a portable computer for RL reasons, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place I¦m afraid, because you will be running into the added cost of such a computer in more than just gaming - what if it breaks?
With your unfortunate computer investment, you are a VERY small minority in the EVE player base. CCP is a business and they please a lot more of their customers by tweaking their time investments for quality rather than extremely broad support.
You are ofcourse entitled to voicing your disappointment, but saying that the developers are making a bad business decision or maintaining an evil business mentality for it is in bad style, imho.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!
Also CCP, what's the chance of having AA without the need of using NHancer?
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Kaltooth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 19:53:00 -
[78]
So, do we get any hints or info on whats coming in Incursion 1.1 that can only really work with sm3 versus sm2? :) Or is this more a general switch to sm3 for a few more fps client render side?
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Mieryn Caval
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 20:30:00 -
[79]
No more logging in from the nc20, to chat and do non-flying around stuff, when away from home. Ok. Sucks.
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Joseph SaintJohn
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 20:31:00 -
[80]
My main gaming PC meets the new reqiurement. My old laptop i use on the road, I am self employed, cannot. But , in all honesty , its a "****ty" laptop that needed to be replaced.
A specific reply to the "risk of buying a laptop." Some of us are on the road a lot and prefer to be in game , not watching TV. But since laptops that meet the new minimum requirements are pretty cheap..... should not be a big problem for "road warriors".
Joe
"A choice , once made , creates its own path" - can't remeber who said it.
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Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 20:39:00 -
[81]
Home desktop : check
Laptop : check
Work desktop : check -- umm, well graphically. Work prevents connection to EVE servers
For some unknown reason.
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gigitrix
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 20:53:00 -
[82]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 08/10/2010 11:59:09
Originally by: Kaahles Netbook skill changes are practical but hey I think that's why such a function is planned for EVE Gate soonÖ
I seriously doubt that it will be ever possible to change skills through web. It's too simple to write a bot to change skills automatically. This is scenario CCP tries to avoid.
This would be possible and demonstratably secure with ReCAPTCHA. Yeah, accepting a CAPTCHA on every input means we aren't going to be seeing markets "gate-ified" in this way (it would be very unusable) But CAPTCHAs are, right now, the only tool we have for bot prevention on the net. ReCAPTCHA is used by millions, including facebook, so if people could crack it with OCR or whatever we would know about it.
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Archestratidas
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 21:10:00 -
[83]
Well the problem with user hardware statistics is this. 99% of the time I log into eve with my desktop, which supports SM3. 1% of the time, when I'm away, I log on with my laptop, which does not support SM3. But that 1% is really damned convenient and I daresay 'important' to me.
It's not as simple as looking at a 'oh, 95% of our clients are logged in with sm3 compatible machines'.
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Sazumaan Johnza
Minmatar Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:12:00 -
[84]
Skip 3.0 and move straight to 4.0
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cpu939
Gallente Unknown Soldiers The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.10.08 22:02:00 -
[85]
Edited by: cpu939 on 08/10/2010 22:05:18 my poor 2 years old laptop, i'll have to upgrade when we get sm 5
when did eve up the sm spec last time 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 22:09:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Originally by: Dan Grobag I want an ASCII EVE.
CCP Urist cancels action change skills on netbooks: Need more eye candy.
Tough luck about netbooks, but otherwise, I doubt anyone will care about this change.
Netbooks? all thats needed for me to play EVE on my padPC is more memory on my graphics card
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 23:00:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Elojs Stuff
If you can't afford this but you can afford to shell out $15 a month for EVE (or the time to play it enough to afford the gtc's)...
As people have said before, gaming may not be the best hobby for you.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 23:10:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 08/10/2010 23:13:17
Originally by: CCP Zulu Of course we wanted to get this message out there with plenty of lead time so people could prepare, bringing that 1% down to 0% since you all know about it now :)
That won't happen, and you know it beter than me. That 1% is the playes with crappy integrated Intel chipsets. Integrated in their notebooks.
P.S. BTW, will this move also cure the sudden drop in framerate when opening settings/Character Sheet, Planet surface view? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
ForumWarrior
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 23:12:00 -
[89]
Welllll.....****.
Sucks to be a broke-ass newlywed college kid in Q2, I guess.
--- ôThere is a powerful tension in our relationship to technology. We are excited by egalitarianism and anonymity, but we constantly fight for our identity.ö |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 23:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: ForumWarrior Edited by: ForumWarrior on 08/10/2010 23:16:55 Welllll.....****.
Sucks to be a broke-ass newlywed college kid in Q2, I guess.
Edit to add: Not upset with CCP, perfectly reasonable change, will get a new card in time. Just...limited budget is limited. I already don't pay to play :p
I'm not very tech-oriented anymore, honestly. Can anyone recommend a few super-cheapy cards to clear the cutoff?
--------------------------- CCP Shader Model 3 checker --------------------------- Your graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 Supports Shader Model 3.0 --------------------------- ОК ---------------------------
Very low-budget, and run high shaders good, if played in single window on single monitor. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.08 23:36:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: ForumWarrior Edited by: ForumWarrior on 08/10/2010 23:16:55 Welllll.....****.
Sucks to be a broke-ass newlywed college kid in Q2, I guess.
Edit to add: Not upset with CCP, perfectly reasonable change, will get a new card in time. Just...limited budget is limited. I already don't pay to play :p
I'm not very tech-oriented anymore, honestly. Can anyone recommend a few super-cheapy cards to clear the cutoff?
--------------------------- CCP Shader Model 3 checker --------------------------- Your graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 Supports Shader Model 3.0 --------------------------- ОК ---------------------------
Very low-budget, and run high shaders good, if played in single window on single monitor.
you can even get a 8800 for dirt cheap prices.
even cheaper than a GT 220. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:40:00 -
[92]
My 6800 Ultra is compliant on my media PC in the den. Sweet, can still play from the couch :) All 4 comps in my house will be fine. Good to see eve moving forward.
For the people wanting to force AA and on an nVidia card, you can do it through the advanced settings in the graphics driver. I used to do it and EVE looked great, but the card would get pretty warm (~82C), even with HDR disabled.
It's a shame there are still a lot of people using windows XP 32 bit. I'm also disappointed in MS for releasing 7 32bit to the desktop. 64bit, DX10 > needed to be the bar they set for graphics and coding. They have still done well with making it backwards compatible so at least these two criteria could have been the precedent set for this release of Windows. Mac has been 64 bit for years.
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Joseph SaintJohn
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Posted - 2010.10.09 01:01:00 -
[93]
I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.
The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.
I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.
Joe
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.10.09 01:07:00 -
[94]
Originally by: TheLostPenguin
Originally by: Solbright I vote for a non-textured option for both running on old kit and fleet work.
This has the side benefit of not demanding new art every time there a revamp. :)
So basicly you want the "classic" client back running old low res gfx
No. I don't want any texturing at all. The classic client had a full set of textures in it.
Texturing is entirely unneeded fluff that, as CCP have said many times, takes much work to update.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 01:18:00 -
[95]
You don't need models even. The brackets are pretty enough. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 02:09:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Elhym
Originally by: Elojs *Idjits*
Jumping on this "Games are not the right hobby for you" bandwagon. Maybe you should try Runescape? Or perhaps Ragnarok Online. Or, I don't know, put aside a few dollars per month until the upgrade to simply buy a new video card that is dirt cheap.
What about the rest of his hardware? If his computer is old enough, the CPU, RAM, motherboard and so forth might not be able to function well with a modern video card, or even a slightly antiquated one.
-- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Ordais
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 02:28:00 -
[97]
Well....i expect native AA support and more fluff then, if you go 3.0 ATM your grafic-effects are an understantement to say the least.
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NeoShocker
Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 04:09:00 -
[98]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 09/10/2010 04:11:51 One of my SLI 8800GT card died 4 months ago. Onto the single, and that card died few days ago. 3 years of service and it did well. Currently serving is the recommisioned Geforce 6200 LE from retirement storage after the last 8800's death (both cards underwent oven surgery, and each card recovered temporarily for 2 months). After finally getting necessary funds, now to recruit the Evga GTX 470 into service on ... Monday. :<
Then I'm all set for better gaming than ever and improved eve-o experience! But that won't happen until CCP add in AA support rather than relying on graphics drivers >:O ----------------------------------- Peace through power! |
Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 08:34:00 -
[99]
I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.
So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?
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Vak'ran
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 10:06:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Elojs Stuff
If you can't afford this but you can afford to shell out $15 a month for EVE (or the time to play it enough to afford the gtc's)...
As people have said before, gaming may not be the best hobby for you.
He would also need this to get it into his laptop...
Learn to read.
And another pre-emptive learn to read for when you decide I am defending him.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
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Wengole
Red Sky Morning
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 11:23:00 -
[101]
SM3Checker.exe runs on Wine (1.3.3) and reports my laptop's 8400 GS supports SM3.
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Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2010.10.09 17:21:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38 did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?
my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...
eve works fine on it for now, and I'm not going to buy another one just because eve is going to discontinue support.
So if you going to upgrade to SM3, only if you release a slim client or something to support it, otherwise I'm going to bomb support until I can play again ;).
Originally by: Drifnir I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.
So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?
yup.... comeon ccp, release slim client.
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Rho Legate
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 19:35:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Chibisuke Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38 did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?
my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...
eve works fine on it for now, and I'm not going to buy another one just because eve is going to discontinue support.
So if you going to upgrade to SM3, only if you release a slim client or something to support it, otherwise I'm going to bomb support until I can play again ;).
Originally by: Drifnir I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.
So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?
yup.... comeon ccp, release slim client.
Please don't release a slim client I would prefer those people who would haveto code and update this to be working on the full client, game requirements increase its not our fault that your netbook was badly future designed sm3 is 5-6 year old standard.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 20:46:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CCP Zulu ... We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
You're right, I am more technological advanced... My computer however is not......Shuttle Inc FN85 motherboard (2004), AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU (2004), 2 gig DDR (2008), NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 512 MB (2006), 80-286 case (1984, 1.2 mm steel tower 64 cm high with two 18 cm case fans.....), screwed together Minmatar style... And yes, there really is duct-tape inside! (and parts from 6 different PC's, a bicycle and a Miele dishwasher.....)
But the most imported thing is, it runs EvE, and will still do so after this (good!) change. |
DanjSmith
UoH Eve Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:52:00 -
[105]
Desktop is more than fine for this, as is my netbook which is sm4 ready even. Will be good to see what CCP bring out in terms of visuals with this move.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:02:00 -
[106]
Originally by: gigitrix ReCAPTCHA is used by millions, including facebook, so if people could crack it with OCR or whatever we would know about it.
Recaptcha Busted It is designed to give as much security as possible while maintaining human readability, therein lies its biggest vulnerability. It slows down the bots, it doesn't stop them, although slowing them down is still a good thing.
Back to main topic, I came here expecting a solid wall of "CCP is teh suck" but instead just see mostly a whole lot of "No problem here, carry on". Could it be that the Eve player base is maturing?
Be nice to see what the new shinys they create with the new SM.
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ihcn
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Posted - 2010.10.10 09:46:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Joseph SaintJohn I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.
The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.
I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.
Joe
You have no idea what lag is, just admit it. FPS drop is not lag.
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2010.10.10 17:55:00 -
[108]
Well, looks like I gotta buy a whole new laptop if I want to keep using EVE while I'm on the road. *glee* ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Moni Toimikone
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.10 18:28:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Chibisuke Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38 did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?
my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...
Nobody cares that your netbook, that is clearly not made for gaming can't run SM3. ____________________________
Desusig by Crumplecorn |
Elysarian
Minmatar Elysarian Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.10 22:31:00 -
[110]
Originally by: NeoShocker Edited by: NeoShocker on 09/10/2010 04:11:51 One of my SLI 8800GT card died 4 months ago. Onto the single, and that card died few days ago. 3 years of service and it did well. Currently serving is the recommisioned Geforce 6200 LE from retirement storage after the last 8800's death (both cards underwent oven surgery, and each card recovered temporarily for 2 months). After finally getting necessary funds, now to recruit the Evga GTX 470 into service on ... Monday. :<
Then I'm all set for better gaming than ever and improved eve-o experience! But that won't happen until CCP add in AA support rather than relying on graphics drivers >:O
Unreal... Pretty much the same thing happened to me - one of my sli 8800GT cards died a few weeks ago, I've been running with a single one since.
I'll be installing a GTX460 tomorrow :D ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.10.11 07:24:00 -
[111]
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 11/10/2010 07:26:07
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: RiotRick Edited by: RiotRick on 08/10/2010 09:54:26 Shader Model 3.0 as minimum seems like a sensible requirement. Even my work laptop has a shader model 3.0 card (ati x1350).
But.... I qoute:
"Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing"
Will we get anti-aliasing support then?
Since EVE uses HDR, it can't *naturally* use anti-aliasing at the same time. This is due to a fault in DirectX 9. There are various hacks out there which can attempt to force HDR+Antialiasing at the driver level, but it isn't officially supported and frequently stops working whenever you upgrade your video driver. In fact, nHancer - the most commonly used tool for forcing HDR+Antialiasing - no longer works with the current nvidia drivers (and in fact hasn't worked for months).
If CCP wanted EVE Online to have HDR+FSAA, they would essentially have to drop DirectX 9, and give us that DirectX 10 client they have been promising us for years. Except now it would be better for them to skip straight to DirectX 11, since Vista is terribad.
Give an option to choose between the 2 or make a poll to replace HDR with AA, I am sure most players prefer AA over HDR, I mean look at the minmatar stations, they are awfull without AA.
I don't even run HDR, I don't see how it improves my graphics at all.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.11 07:47:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Golden Gnu How many people will be affected by this...?
Very few people in North America, Australasia, and Western Europe, maybe - but I'm sure there are some in Eastern Europe and Russia who might still be using SM 2.0 cards.
I would be a little more forthcoming with this notice so they have time to budget and prepare.
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Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari Haruspex Industries Wrong Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.11 12:04:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Zeimanov Kalzumaan on 11/10/2010 12:05:40 Sucks to not be able to do market stuff on my crappy work PC but meh.....
We had advanced warning this was coming - I cobbled enough money to get a new SM4.0 setup because it was obvious this was going to happen. CCP spending developer time on fixing problems with the game has to be better than trying to support legacy cards.
All good CCP - though a way to do skill changes and market transactions through evegate would be nice.
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.11 12:20:00 -
[114]
I would agree with you, but I live in Eastern Europe, in one of the poorest countries in terms of "standard of living". Even in EE, a gamer could afford upgrading his/her video card (two possible options): 1. PCIe ATI HD 5450 - 47.50 USD - Shader Model 5.0 2. AGP ATI HD 3450 - 58.50 USD - Shader Model 4.1
I know that some people would like to play EVE on their netbooks / laptops, but hey - playing games on a laptop / netbook is a LUXURY and will be, at least until AMD Fusion / Intel Sandy Brdige parts become available in 2011!
Very few high-end mobile devices have the power to run any DirectX game, and I am not talking about Facebook / Flash games...
IMHO even if 15% of the players still use SM 2.0 video cards (and I doubt that the number is higher than 8-9% now), they represent distinct minority and if we stick to certain generic democratic principles, it would be crazy if CCP has to stop the technological progress of EVE, because of this!
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Originally by: Golden Gnu How many people will be affected by this...?
Very few people in North America, Australasia, and Western Europe, maybe - but I'm sure there are some in Eastern Europe and Russia who might still be using SM 2.0 cards.
I would be a little more forthcoming with this notice so they have time to budget and prepare.
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.10.11 15:28:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 11/10/2010 15:32:29 First off,
They're giving you a good 8 months to go get your upgrade, if you cannot save enough money for a bones pc or a junkertop in that time maybe you need to re-evaluate your economic situation instead of worrying about not being able to play eve.
Second off,
You all had an extremly very fair warning a year ago when they dropped shader model 1 support. And thanks to public outcry but a good 8% at the time shader model 2 was kept, many folks did see it was time to move onto bigger and better hardware and which is why that the sm2 group is probably floating around 1-2% also EVE already did a survey once. found out that like only 300 players had shader model one when they dropped it, players still managed to find work arounds that let them change skills at least. So if you wherent saving for one then you should be saving for one now. 5$ a month will net you a really nice and very recent video card able to fit in most computers by the time the need for it comes around 20$ a month and youll have a decent low end but functional laptop for playing, 50$ a month and well you should have no probelsmw ith getting something that was top of the line as of today by the time that expansion launches.
I highly recommend CCP to continue to HARP on this fact that SM2 will be dropped, put constant reminders because from what i seen in this thread so far everyone seem to fogot the shader model 1 support drop.
and wtf about playing games on netbooks? they mobile work station and basically a slightly overprices electronic notepads with internet connection which just happens to be cheaper than an Ipad. Lowest bidder built would garantee that most games cannot and will not play on them and the companies who build them are not obligated to design them so. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEPT10
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.11 16:37:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Chibisuke
my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...
This statement is a contradiction in terms. If it was "state of the art" it would support SM 4, at the very least. SM3 has been around since 2004 - how state of the art can you really be with technology that's pushing 8-10 years old inside your machine? --Vel
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:53:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/10/2010 18:55:47 Is there a reason to continue supporting ShaderModel 3.0? I can't imagine there are too many out there using that either. SM 4.0 cards are dirt cheap, less than $50.
Originally by: Chibisuke did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?
my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...
The $400 netbook that I purchased a couple months ago does SM 4.0.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.11 20:41:00 -
[118]
Well, time for me to stop my damned procrastination and build my new system. When my old system bit the dust about 3 years ago, I made do with my 17" Dell laptop which is a little over 4 years old but is running a Mobile Intel 945 Express chipset which is not SM3 compatible. Due to RL issues, I've been putting off building a new system (I custom-build all of my systems, always have) but I guess it's time now. Thanks for the kick in the pants CCP.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:37:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 11/10/2010 21:38:02 Thanks for the considerable heads-up on the replacement of the card, and particularly the application to test it!
I'd be surprised if this effected many people in Apr-Jun 2011, considering my card is almost 2 years old and supports Shader 3.0.
Buy ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in the Eve-Online Store |
Joseph SaintJohn
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Posted - 2010.10.13 05:24:00 -
[120]
Originally by: ihcn
Originally by: Joseph SaintJohn I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.
The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.
I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.
Joe
You have no idea what lag is, just admit it. FPS drop is not lag.
I don't know what you mean by lag, but I am not referring to a FPS drop. I am talking about taking 3 minutes to jump into a system if you are in even a moderately large fleet. Or how long it takes to "load grid" after a jump during a fleet fight. I mean hiding brackets and turning off animations and turning off auto-cycling on your guns in a desperate attempt not to be "killed by lag" , even after your ship is "in warp". In PvP fights , shiny graphics don't matter , the response time of the nodes on CCP'S servers to the "calls" from my client do. If you do not see the drop of "legacy support" before and the dropping of shader 2.o support as anything other than a way for CCP to save money , you are hopelessly naive, or you have never been in a large fleet fight, or tried to buy something in Jita on a Sunday night. Maybe you believe the "shiny" graphs showing how much the "call response" improved after the "character node" was added. Implicit in my post is the idea that in a complex environment the effect of a single change should be unpredictable. My personal bet is that two things happen: CCP saves money, and "lag" gets worse.
Joe
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Evo YaMing
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Posted - 2010.10.13 08:02:00 -
[121]
Dear CCP, i installed today the latest Sisi Client to try out Incarna. My Laptop a Dell Vostro 1310 supports Shader Model 3.0. Now i tested out Incarna and i am having serious FPS issues using your new Character Creation thingy. My FPS are pretty much between 0-5 FPS. if this is your final version its the end of my EVE Time. CYA
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Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.10.13 09:35:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/10/2010 18:55:47 Is there a reason to continue supporting ShaderModel 3.0? I can't imagine there are too many out there using that either. SM 4.0 cards are dirt cheap, less than $50.
It sounds good in theory, unfortunately SM 4.0 requires DX10, which requires Windows Vista and above. According to the Valve hardware survey, only 70% of Windows users are running Vista or 7, even though 85.5% of Windows systems have an SM 4.0-capable GPU. So to upgrade wouldn't only be a $40 graphics card, but also a $130 OS (and that's for the upgrade version of the home version).
Not to mention that EVE doesn't currently have an SM 4.0 version (though IIRC most 3.0 shaders will compile fine as 4.0) or more importantly a DX 10 version, and Cider (for the mac client) doesn't support SM 4.0 or DX 10 either. nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.14 04:29:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Joseph SaintJohn I don't know what you mean by lag, but I am not referring to a FPS drop. I am talking about taking 3 minutes to jump into a system if you are in even a moderately large fleet. Or how long it takes to "load grid" after a jump during a fleet fight. I mean hiding brackets and turning off animations and turning off auto-cycling on your guns in a desperate attempt not to be "killed by lag" , even after your ship is "in warp". In PvP fights , shiny graphics don't matter , the response time of the nodes on CCP'S servers to the "calls" from my client do. If you do not see the drop of "legacy support" before and the dropping of shader 2.o support as anything other than a way for CCP to save money , you are hopelessly naive, or you have never been in a large fleet fight, or tried to buy something in Jita on a Sunday night. Maybe you believe the "shiny" graphs showing how much the "call response" improved after the "character node" was added. Implicit in my post is the idea that in a complex environment the effect of a single change should be unpredictable. My personal bet is that two things happen: CCP saves money, and "lag" gets worse.
Joe
Turning off effects and brackets is only beneficial if your bottleneck is your graphics card. I've been in some big fleet fights with 30+ FPS with brackets etc on and had only the same issues (cycling guns, slow loading grid, etc) everyone else had (in fact I usually load grid faster than most potentially due to geographic location).
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/10/2010 18:55:47 Is there a reason to continue supporting ShaderModel 3.0? I can't imagine there are too many out there using that either. SM 4.0 cards are dirt cheap, less than $50.
It sounds good in theory, unfortunately SM 4.0 requires DX10, which requires Windows Vista and above. According to the Valve hardware survey, only 70% of Windows users are running Vista or 7, even though 85.5% of Windows systems have an SM 4.0-capable GPU. So to upgrade wouldn't only be a $40 graphics card, but also a $130 OS (and that's for the upgrade version of the home version).
Not to mention that EVE doesn't currently have an SM 4.0 version (though IIRC most 3.0 shaders will compile fine as 4.0) or more importantly a DX 10 version, and Cider (for the mac client) doesn't support SM 4.0 or DX 10 either.
At the very least, I hope dropping 2.0 will mean Eve will be using Dx10 in the near future, what with Dx11 out.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Casod Sutherland
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Posted - 2010.10.14 07:16:00 -
[124]
Looks like Linux users with ATI or Intel cards are out of luck.
SM3 requires FP32 textures. Mesa (the standard Linux OpenGL driver) does not support FP32 textures because ARB_color_buffer_float is patented, and the patent belongs to a patent troll. I am guessing Nvidia either paid off the troll (since their binary driver does support ARB_color_buffer_float, allowing modern Nvidia cards under Linux to emulate SM3 in Wine), or just decided to violate the patent.
So no more Eve on my Linux laptop - at least until someone makes an illegal Linux driver for Intel graphics cards...
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.10.14 12:57:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Casod Sutherland Looks like Linux users with ATI or Intel cards are out of luck.
SM3 requires FP32 textures. ...
You're either saying existing ATI Linux users are only using low texture quality or that Eve doesn't currently use FP32 at all.
Are you currently using an Intel GPU to play Eve via Wine? I had the impression Intel's OpenGL driver don't have the functions needed for Eve. Ie: It doesn't work already.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Casod Sutherland
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Posted - 2010.10.14 15:28:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Solbright You're either saying existing ATI Linux users are only using low texture quality or that Eve doesn't currently use FP32 at all.
Are you currently using an Intel GPU to play Eve via Wine? I had the impression Intel's OpenGL driver don't have the functions needed for Eve. Ie: It doesn't work already.
I was wrong; it seems that my drivers were messed up somehow. I reinstalled Mesa 7.8.2, and now when I run SM3checker.exe in Wine, it tells me that my Intel card does support SM3.
And yeah, I am already using a laptop with an Intel GPU to play Eve via Wine when I am away from home. It's quite slow, I certainly wouldn't use it for PVP, but it's good enough for changing skills, setting up market orders, and annoying people in local.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.14 16:22:00 -
[127]
Quote: However, CCP, take note: You better include anti-aliasing this time around, or I shall take up the single pitchfork I found in the old garden shed, light a single torch leftover from halloween celebrations, and solo-angry-mob you all for great justice!
And i will join him. You better include AA this time.
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.10.15 02:26:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Casod Sutherland And yeah, I am already using a laptop with an Intel GPU to play Eve via Wine when I am away from home.
There are plenty, including myself, that would love to know how you've done that. Posting a how-to in the Linux forum would be very helpful.
Cheers
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.15 14:51:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Elojs Stuff
If you can't afford this but you can afford to shell out $15 a month for EVE (or the time to play it enough to afford the gtc's)...
As people have said before, gaming may not be the best hobby for you.
He would also need this to get it into his laptop...
Learn to read.
And another pre-emptive learn to read for when you decide I am defending him.
No, i need to learn how to read. My brain makes me skip certain parts of texts, it's rather annoying... My apoligies.
Point still stands though. Even in Eastern Europe it shouldn't be that hard to find a second hand barebones with sm3.0, or a laptop. First hand stuff is getting cheaper and cheaper aswell. A PC that can run EVE in it's most basic form would cost around ~$250 if you look hard enough (all new parts), maybe a little cheaper. Germany is a haven for cheap PC parts for that matter. It does come down to a choice of not playing the game for a while to save the money and spend the time on a part-time second job (if available), or playing the game and well, not doing that.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.15 14:56:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Evo YaMing Dear CCP, i installed today the latest Sisi Client to try out Incarna. My Laptop a Dell Vostro 1310 supports Shader Model 3.0. Now i tested out Incarna and i am having serious FPS issues using your new Character Creation thingy. My FPS are pretty much between 0-5 FPS. if this is your final version its the end of my EVE Time. CYA
Not a gaming laptop.
While the video card supports SM3.0, "support" is where it stays. That card is made so you can run Aero in Vista/7 and maybe watch a few movies, but games are a bit over it's head. You'll have a hard time running even WoW on that thing i'm afraid.
The 128mb memory alone completely kills it for that matter. 256 has been the norm for gaming for 5 years or so now.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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SyntaxPD
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Posted - 2010.10.16 11:26:00 -
[131]
Edited by: SyntaxPD on 16/10/2010 11:28:23 i support this path of improvements.
But i was going to subscribe second time to enjoy double eve with my pretty old laptop.
I will not do this now.
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:06:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Evo YaMing Dear CCP, i installed today the latest Sisi Client to try out Incarna. My Laptop a Dell Vostro 1310 supports Shader Model 3.0. Now i tested out Incarna and i am having serious FPS issues using your new Character Creation thingy. My FPS are pretty much between 0-5 FPS. if this is your final version its the end of my EVE Time. CYA
Not a gaming laptop.
While the video card supports SM3.0, "support" is where it stays. That card is made so you can run Aero in Vista/7 and maybe watch a few movies, but games are a bit over it's head. You'll have a hard time running even WoW on that thing i'm afraid.
The 128mb memory alone completely kills it for that matter. 256 has been the norm for gaming for 5 years or so now.
Cool text entry bug, it doesn't want to let me read this... so I'll be breifish.
It might not just be the gfx chip in the card. It might be that he's using the Dell provided drivers which are usually VERY VERY old. It's a similar problem to using BootCamp on Windows, the defeault drivers Apple supplies are donky years out of date compared to the latest offerings.
OTOH, 9400M vs an Itel chip so yeah. But even I had to tick the box for "use low quality version". It looked awesome but wasn't useable... so I wonder how badly it'll run on the puka mac client.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.18 21:46:00 -
[133]
Why can't you introduce a client setting that entirely turns off all pictures ? Do so in a way that also allows your processor to ignore all computations of distances and speed of objects not in your active overview setting.
Plenty of game activity requires no pictures...and many players don't need them at all. You can operate at 75% efficiency in many fleet fights and many missions only using the overview and your module buttons. I need to remind myself to look at space and I often don't.
I can run shader 3 on my 5 year old off the shelf $500 computer but will I still be able to run two clients well with more video requirments for stuff I don't want? Even with one client, will I be able to have adobe illustrator open workign on stuff as I went station to station picking up stuff for my regional buy orders.. just using the corner of my eye to look back over when I need to push the a jump or dock button ?
There has got to be a way to support almost all video cards in a all text window mode... and I'd like that even now with the current lower requiredments.
Wouldn't that be an easy compromise that would permanently let people perform a huge portion of game functions on very low level computing devices?
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Delnadres Courthelia
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Posted - 2010.10.19 19:47:00 -
[134]
I only read the first page but...
What about a small simple app written in Java (gasp) that has all the access a Full API Key does, plus the ability to set skills in the queue, participate in in-game chat, run manufacturing and research jobs in the station your character is currently docked at... basically a text-based version of the game based on the latest EVE Back-end, nothing more than simple 2D backgrounds to give an EVE theme, if the device supports it.
If it's written in Java, shouldn't be hard to port it to...well...everything. So no matter where you are, or no matter what devices you own that lose compatibility due to changes in the graphics of the game, you can rest assured you still have reasonable access to the game until you upgrade. And having EVE on-the-go will increase simultanious player connections, improve involvement in the EVE universe throughout the day (especially if it gets ported to iPhone, and BlackBerry), and make it easier to talk to potential players about EVE.
You could also make it modular, including the ability for CCP to create plug-ins, so if you get it on iPhone or similarly powered devices, you could install a plug-in that lets you view the 3D ship previews. Or a plug-in that let's other players in EVE send you a message that triggers an alarm on your phone to let you know to get your butt to a PC and save your Titan from annihilation. XD
Just a thought.
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Dhar Mok
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Posted - 2010.11.12 15:32:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Dhar Mok on 12/11/2010 15:32:36 I tried the app that is linked in the blog out and I found something odd.
My card is definitely a Shader Model 3 card. Tested and verified with a vendor supplied app as well as a couple 3rd party graphics diagnostic checker programs.
However, the tool CCP provides claims that it doesn't have shader model 3 support.
Might want to recheck your tool and make sure it's accurate for all cards.
Card on my laptop is a Mobile Intel(r) 965 Express Chipset Family GPI is a GM965 Revision C0 SM3.0 support is listed.
Would hate for a ton of people to run out and upgrade systems needlessly because "CCP told me my old system wouldn't work"
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Miranio
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Posted - 2010.12.10 07:54:00 -
[136]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Our best metric is the Steam hardware report and general trending in hardware sales etc. Applying some common sense and logic and a few assumptions we deduce that around 3% of the EVE player base don't support SM3 today but at the current trend that will be down well below 1% early next year.
Of course we wanted to get this message out there with plenty of lead time so people could prepare, bringing that 1% down to 0% since you all know about it now :)
The problem is even if I know about it, it doesn't mean I have the money to buy myself a whole new computer ( actually still on AGP ) and if I had the money to buy a new computer, do you really think I would have sticked with this rig until now ?
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2010.12.25 02:42:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Doublewhopper on 25/12/2010 02:42:42 The problem is even if I know about it, it doesn't mean I have the money to buy myself a whole new computer ( actually still on AGP ) and if I had the money to buy a new computer, do you really think I would have sticked with this rig until now ?
There should be no problem for you on AGP. There are graphics cards as the Radeon HD3850 available for AGP, that support shader model 3.0. However, since AGP systems tend to be single core CPUs, it is best to stick to a maximum of 2 clients on such a solution.
There are even new cards out that support DirectX 11 on PCI (NOT PCIe) as the Radeon HD 5450 from HIS. It supports shader model 5.0 on PCI, but i wouldn't buy that for EVE, as the data transfer would be too slow for gaming.
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Miranio
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Posted - 2010.12.25 07:32:00 -
[138]
I heard about card with newer gpu on the AGP port, but the fact is that it would be the worst investment ever to buy a brand new video card on that port or even worst on a pci (not pci-e) port.
The AGP technology is obsolete today (I'm not blind, I'm just a poor grad student), so buying a brand new card on an obsolete port for getting in a obsolete motherbord, with obsolete DDR 400mhz and obsolete CPU (single core ) is not really a good thing to do. Right now the best move is to use this computer to the ever extend of his computational capacity and change it completetly when the money will come.
Talking about 2 clients, I actually run 2 clients on my computer with no difficulty, I already ran 3 but there was a slight lag. So it will not be a computational capacity problem, but just a technology standard drawback and that's drive me nuts.
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Soldarius
Caldari Independent Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.27 10:21:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Soldarius on 27/12/2010 10:22:26
Originally by: Doublewhopper There are even new cards out that support DirectX 11 on PCI (NOT PCIe) as the Radeon HD 5450 from HIS. It supports shader model 5.0 on PCI, but i wouldn't buy that for EVE, as the data transfer would be too slow for gaming.
All the new DX11 cards that I have seen are PCI-e. Check your facts before hand plz. Fact of the matter is that PCI is becoming obsolete, as it has been superceded by the much faster PCI-Express interface.
I run an ATI Radeon HD4890 and have 0 lag with all graphics options (esc menu and brackets) set to maximum until participating in huge fleet fights with several hundred players on grid and firing. The 5450 you pointed at is affordable. However, the 4890 is far superior, as the above reviews clearly indicate. They are both PCI-e and both support DX11.
As far as AGP, well... the laptop I bought 6 years ago had a PCI-e interface. I did happen to see an AGP eGPU on the shelf at Staples the other day. But honestly, upgrade to PCI-e as soon as you can. You won't regret it.
Originally by: Manowar With dreams to be a king first one should be a man.
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:53:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Doublewhopper on 28/12/2010 03:55:45
Originally by: Soldarius Edited by: Soldarius on 27/12/2010 10:22:26
All the new DX11 cards that I have seen are PCI-e. Check your facts before hand plz. Fact of the matter is that PCI is becoming obsolete, as it has been superceded by the much faster PCI-Express interface.
As far as AGP, well... the laptop I bought 6 years ago had a PCI-e interface. I did happen to see an AGP eGPU on the shelf at Staples the other day. But honestly, upgrade to PCI-e as soon as you can. You won't regret it.
You are very funny and too lazy to even use Google for a minute, but wildly accusing others of not having their facts strait.
So let me point you to the card i mentioned:
http://www.hisdigital.com/us/product2-580.shtml
Please check the interface for me and report back to me when you are done.
Also be aware that there are NVIDIA cards of the 9xxx range released for the PCI slot (_NOT_ PCI-e!!)
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.28 10:41:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Doublewhopper Edited by: Doublewhopper on 28/12/2010 03:55:45
Originally by: Soldarius Edited by: Soldarius on 27/12/2010 10:22:26
All the new DX11 cards that I have seen are PCI-e. Check your facts before hand plz. Fact of the matter is that PCI is becoming obsolete, as it has been superceded by the much faster PCI-Express interface.
As far as AGP, well... the laptop I bought 6 years ago had a PCI-e interface. I did happen to see an AGP eGPU on the shelf at Staples the other day. But honestly, upgrade to PCI-e as soon as you can. You won't regret it.
You are very funny and too lazy to even use Google for a minute, but wildly accusing others of not having their facts strait.
So let me point you to the card i mentioned:
http://www.hisdigital.com/us/product2-580.shtml
Please check the interface for me and report back to me when you are done.
Also be aware that there are NVIDIA cards of the 9xxx range released for the PCI slot (_NOT_ PCI-e!!)
Thank you for the link. The card you mention is indeed PCI, rather than PCI-E, and it does support many of the new methods and protocols, such as DX11 and shader model 5.0.
However, contrary to your assertion that I am lazy, I in fact did a great deal of research on graphics cards in preparation for building my custom rig. As I said in my post, which you either did not read thoroughly or chose to ignore, I simply didn't bother to look at something that was designed in the early 90s and has been obsolete for many years.
As far as not using google, I found this on the interwebz. Doublewhopper, I suggest you lay off the fast food and spend some of your savings on a new mobo. Perhaps one built within the last 10 years.
Originally by: Manowar With dreams to be a king first one should be a man.
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2010.12.28 20:06:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Soldarius
Thank you for the link. The card you mention is indeed PCI, rather than PCI-E, and it does support many of the new methods and protocols, such as DX11 and shader model 5.0.
However, contrary to your assertion that I am lazy, I in fact did a great deal of research on graphics cards in preparation for building my custom rig. As I said in my post, which you either did not read thoroughly or chose to ignore, I simply didn't bother to look at something that was designed in the early 90s and has been obsolete for many years.
As far as not using google, I found this on the interwebz. Doublewhopper, I suggest you lay off the fast food and spend some of your savings on a new mobo. Perhaps one built within the last 10 years.
Thank you for your interesting link which is very funny since it seems to be recently updated and contains information that is more than 5 years old...let me share what i have learned out of it:
Quote: Q:Is PCI Express Video Faster than AGP Video? A:Yes and No. [...]
So, what this means is that in terms of real world performance there may not be a huge difference between AGP and PCI Express if you are talking about identical chipsets. Unfortunately this is very hard to prove because graphics chipsets are designed either for PCI Express or AGP. [...] If you have a system with AGP on it, it doesn't make sense to upgrade just to get PCI-E video right now.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.01.13 13:27:00 -
[143]
Since some folks are discussing M$ operating systems and DX support, here is a reference on OS life cycles. And more importantly, this page links to the actual OS support life cycles. When an OS reaches the end of its support life cycle, then it is truly time to move on.
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CrispyChick
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Posted - 2011.01.15 15:10:00 -
[144]
It seems the move to shader model 3 has been called off. There is still no transition date announced nor any warning issued for people not using the forums.
Additionally the SM3Checker has been removed from the server and is not available anymore.
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Delcu
Amarr Old Timers Guild Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.19 23:42:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Delcu on 19/01/2011 23:42:02
Originally by: CrispyChick It seems the move to shader model 3 has been called off. There is still no transition date announced nor any warning issued for people not using the forums.
Additionally the SM3Checker has been removed from the server and is not available anymore.
They did say they expected it in Q2 of 2011. So we still might be seeing the change at some point.
Would be nice to have the checker back available, the recent CPU changes are starting to stir interest in this change again now that folks cant play anymore.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.21 05:34:00 -
[146]
Forget about checking if your card supports SM 3.0 What you really want^^^^need is to go out and buy two Nvidia cards. Thats right, I said TWO. One will be for crappy PhysX so you can walk in stations with more than 5 fps. This is the future by CCP&Nvidia bribe "marketing" money.
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Lord Gragert
Minmatar Mercury Metal Mining
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Posted - 2011.01.21 12:03:00 -
[147]
I might be a little late to this discussion, but I want to comment that this will prevent me from playing at work. :( Rule 1. A fair fight is evidence of poor planning. Rule 2. There is no such thing as overkill. Rule 3. Pillage, then burn. Rule 4. That which does not kill you, has made a tactical error.
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.26 09:55:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/10/2010 18:55:47 Is there a reason to continue supporting ShaderModel 3.0? I can't imagine there are too many out there using that either. SM 4.0 cards are dirt cheap, less than $50.
It sounds good in theory, unfortunately SM 4.0 requires DX10, which requires Windows Vista and above. According to the Valve hardware survey, only 70% of Windows users are running Vista or 7, even though 85.5% of Windows systems have an SM 4.0-capable GPU. So to upgrade wouldn't only be a $40 graphics card, but also a $130 OS (and that's for the upgrade version of the home version).
Not to mention that EVE doesn't currently have an SM 4.0 version (though IIRC most 3.0 shaders will compile fine as 4.0) or more importantly a DX 10 version, and Cider (for the mac client) doesn't support SM 4.0 or DX 10 either.
Going DX10 makes no sense. Going DX11 make a lot of sense. Since DX11 has fallback paths to DX10.1, DX10 and DX9. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.27 17:45:00 -
[149]
Called off my arse. CCP just hasn't had the balls to admit that it's already in effect. Those of us who can't access the Character Creator are just the first casualties of this unannounced switch to SM3. Would have been nice if they had given us some advance warning.
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Gartanus
Caldari Nbiri Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.27 20:29:00 -
[150]
Yay! My card supports SM3! Whew! This space reserved for something witty..... |
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Lors Dornick
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.27 23:45:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem Called off my arse. CCP just hasn't had the balls to admit that it's already in effect. Those of us who can't access the Character Creator are just the first casualties of this unannounced switch to SM3. Would have been nice if they had given us some advance warning.
Neither of my computers support SM3, my old dinky laptop never will.
Both are running XP so DX9 and nothing else.
Both can run the Character Generator fine, slow obviously, but it works.
So no, no early installment of SM3.
And yes, I've been aware of the fact that I'll have to upgrade my main box since October, since I read the blog when it was published and tested my machines.
// Lors |
OblivionDawn
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Posted - 2011.01.31 05:06:00 -
[152]
Thank you, CCP, for making me actually find out what card I'm running EVE with. Turns out I'm using an 8 year-old card with 128 mb of dedicated memory to its name.
Definitely time to upgrade. For those who are having financial issues, this is probably your best bet. Mine should arrive in 3-4 days.
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St'oto
freelancers inc -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.02.02 04:29:00 -
[153]
Edited by: St''oto on 02/02/2011 04:31:55
Originally by: Elojs Thank you for advising me that unless I shell out an exhorbitant amount of money, I will be unable to continue playing Eve after next year, until I actually obtain a position that pays me a respectable salary. Over the past year, Eve has been about the only luxury I have managed to afford on a continuing basis. I am not going to speak to the resentments felt by many in the player community about what appears to them to be CCP's lack of responsiveness upon any issue that doesn't qualify as low-hanging fruit, or unusually profitable for CCP. I understand the difficulty in maintaining legacy drivers, and I do agree with it.
However, I would point out that if you wish to force your entire player base to use Eve's minimum requirements as the benchmark for their personal computer systems, you will lose a substantial portion of your player base. Currently, I run Eve on a 5 year old laptop that does not support Shader 3.0. I do not have the resources to upgrade at the present time, nor is it likely that such an upgrade will be possible until I replace my 20 year old automobile, among other expenses that must take higher priority. Therefore, I shall have to quit Eve until such time as I can again afford to play, when the expansion makes it no longer possible to play, on that day, I will bid Eve goodbye.
Congratulations to CCP on mastering at least the worst points of Western Capitalism. Coercion of your customer base is right up there with the monopolistic practices of another large software firm based outside of Silicon Valley.
Try to develop a path that doesn't effectively exclude your customer base, or compel them to replace hardware that is otherwise satisfactory in order to run a single application that is used only a few hours per week.
*Idjits*
Games are not the be all and end all of existence!
How do you pay for EVE then? GTC? DO this stop paying for eve for a year and stop playing it and save up for a cheap throw away laptop that will run it. Jesus people if you can't get a machine that can run a technology that has been out for years, to continue to play a game you spend a minimum of $15 on each month then you need to find another hobby.
Bye bye, I'd gladly take a few less players running around the universe who can't afford even the most basic computer for speedier updates, better code, and better expansions with the time they have saved on keeping those old timers in the game. Update or leave, thank you and have a wonderful EVEless day. :)
GTX 260 here doesn't both me one bit and I support CCP. Infact upgrade to DX10-11 while your at it and kick some more people to the curb! :D
Also if "Games are not the be all and end all of existence!" then you shouldn't have a problem with losing access to Eve because you can somehow support your game habit but not be able to save up enough money to upgrade hardware. You can also support your net access for said game. Again pitiful excuses. It's not like it's an extremely expensive upgrade. Buy a dell from walmart, $300. I don't know where you live in the world and if other countries have an income seasons but it is income tax season.
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dreada0
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Posted - 2011.02.06 14:28:00 -
[154]
Does anyone still have a working version of that SM3 test application? The one on CCP Zulu blog doesn't work anymore.
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