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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Veryez
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.08.05 02:21:00 -
[271] - Quote
First off, I like this format of CSM minutes. Sure it takes more time to read then over, but I prefer details and the ability to come to my own conclusions.
Next, I want to thank Seleene and Trebor, for their dedication to the community and their hard work at the meeting. Seleene has taken communication with the community to a new (and better level) with his frequent posts and his Blog/Tweets, that takes dedication and commitment, so thank you (and keep herding those cats).
Trebor was obviously well prepared for this meeting, his preparation shows through in his questions. I am glad to have someone take his election so seriously.
Two Step, though he appeared argumentative at times, brought a lot of energy and preparation into this meeting. It seemed like he was able to talk on every issue, and I do agree with his assessment that Wormholes are "perfect". To me Wormholes are an example of how good EvE (and CCP) can be.
To the other CSM members, while you might not have always been active in every area. You all had no problems speaking up in your areas of expertise and for the most part were fairly logical and I believe a credit to your constituents.
Some specific thoughts, The CSM chairman should be elected by the CSM members, popular vote is wrong. Overall, the CSM and CCP is too narrowly focused on 0.0. Here's my first fix for 0.0. Remove local, do it now. Perfect intel in a crutch for people, and needs to go with no replacement. We Wh dwellers make do, once you get over the initial shock of not having perfect intel, you learn to deal with it. Here's another thought, when you make stations destructable, make stargates destructible/buildable too (but say it takes 24 hours to build). This introduces the ability to completely isolate an enemy and/or bypass one of their strongly defended systems.
Lastly on ship balancing, it sounds all well and good, but I am against it since it tends to "dumb down EvE". It pigeon holes ships into roles, and setups. I can fly every sub cap ship in EvE at lvl 5 skills and use every t2 weapon in the game, the last thing I want is to only be able to use a ship in one or two roles. I like that fitting a ship requires thought , and that it is possible to 'skin a cat' in different ways. When EvE stops being "spreadsheets online", is probably the day I'll end all my accounts.
Lastly, earlier in the year CCP stated they wanted to do something to recognize EvE's long time players and thank them. I would have expected to see something about this "Player Experience" section on Friday. Sadly CCP and the CSM said little to nothing about any initiatives in this direction. I understand the desire to help newer players and to get them to stick with EvE, but as CCP earlier said this was also important, I would have hoped for some information here too. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
72
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Posted - 2012.08.05 09:22:00 -
[272] - Quote
Goddamn right Im a warrior!!! I spent last three days reading these minutes. Now can I get a medal please? Oh and Please make the minutes more condensed next time? While I understand what youre trying to do with accountability is making people read a book everytime the right thing to do?
Thanks anyway for the work put into making this. |
Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size
The Rat Race
59
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Posted - 2012.08.05 13:25:00 -
[273] - Quote
CBA reading through 14 pages of "herp CCP dont know what theyre talking about" rubbish; just wanted to thank all those involved at CCP and the CSM for putting the time and effort into both the meetings themselves and the minutes! I've wanted for a long time to read what goes on, and i found it really interesting. Cheers guys! |
Mr Reaperz
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
1
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Posted - 2012.08.05 15:56:00 -
[274] - Quote
Most of this looks good, thanks for making it public I have just 1 complaint.
Three reasons not to knock pve carriers out of anomolies CCP Soundwave mentions this around page ~85.
Reason 1, PVP. Because finding and killing a carrier ratting is the one of the ultimate OMG moments for any gang in eve. In fact, it is rare to get more excited in this game than catching one of these babies in a belt / anom.
It does happen, and it's epic for whoever gets the kill, example.
http://gents.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14022049
Reason 2, PVE. An expensive fit machariel or vindicator can do sites almost as fast or faster depending on skills. Often players run with a machariel or vindicator or two tengu's and drones assigned from their carrier. Small reminder, if someone trains fighters 5 and can clear sites faster I believe that should be acceptable. They are risking an extremely expensive and slow ship.. and trained a skill (Fighters 5) that takes 50 days.
If you risk 2B+ in ships and have trained a 50Day skill i'm of the impression you should kill stuff faster than a cheaper and more agile well fit vindicator (Risk/Reward).
Reason 3, Capitals. Having and using capitals is probably one of the largest factors that differentiates null sec from high sec. We can purchase capitals and use them. The carrier has two main uses, moving large numbers of ships for deployments vast distances and triage. The third, and often most fun use, is for certain escalation sites, anomolies, and assigning drones. I see the ability to use these big beasts to make some isk as one of the coolest reward for living and fighting in null sec. Bear in mind that often carrier pilots are engaged in wars defending or taking space in 0.0 meaning they should be able to make more isk when they do have time to make isk so they can go back to fighting.
Final Statement
If we are ignoring null sec except poses for the next two years, can we completely ignore us and leave this change out that will just **** off 0.0 carrier pilots? We have a capital that we can actually use for our own benefit and its friggen fun/cool to be able to use a capital. If we don't like carriers because they don't require ammo like other ratting vessels thus requiring freight into the game. Maybe make it so when killing npc's the carrier must use a special ammo (no more expensive that normal ratting ship ammo) to get this process involved as well. Otherwise, please leave anomoly carriers alone, for pvp, pve, and having a useful capital.
Thanks,
Reap |
Davicent Kashada
Imperial Guardians
Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2012.08.05 16:34:00 -
[275] - Quote
I love the additional detail that the long format provides. Hopefully they stick with it into the future. |
mjgvjbk
Rio Tinto Jnr
Bluescope Mining
27
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Posted - 2012.08.05 23:39:00 -
[276] - Quote
Hmm not sure what happened here but WTF would you guys fuk with solo pirating to a degree that it would now go the way of the dinosaur ? What is so wrong with doing eve solo at any level ?
Just like Two Step said
Quote:
There are plenty of people out there that consider 10-15 people small gang PVP. Just because it doesn't fit into your master plan for how EVE PVP should work doesn't mean it is wrong. Perhaps you might spend a little more time outside of your bunker and see how the rest of us inferior people play the game.
So why break low sec for the solo pirate ?  why do gate guns need any work at all - leave things that aren't broken along FFS?
Go fix corp management and alliance management like you keep promising.
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
29
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Posted - 2012.08.06 00:49:00 -
[277] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:Karl Planck wrote:woa woa woa, what the F*CK is this Quote:CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out. I AM PLEADING with you, don't do this. This will absolutely murder lowsec. Not liking LOWSEC gate camps is one thing (nullsec is apparently fine to camp) , but enabling fast tackle on any gate in lowsec is going to put a absolute stop to the traffic that exists there now. And this wont even stop camps (as i assume this is the intention of the change). All it will promote is the time honored tradition of bouncing. How does this work with cycling between targets? I'd like to strongly echo these concerns, albeit for slightly different reasons. To drop a triage carrier in under 5 minutes, you're looking at 3-4k+ dps. If that's applied in the same way that current sentry damage is (i.e. perfect tracking, full damage anywhere within 150 km of the gate), it basically makes it impossible to have any kind of extended small-scale gang engagement on a lowsec gate outside of FW since such fights generally require one side or the other to take GCC, and that's far too much extra dps to cope with on that scale when you can't mitigate it through range/tracking. As Karl notes, it would have basically no effect on gatecampers since they'll just chill at off-grid safes between ganks, but it'd cripple small-scale roaming pvp.
Please, please don't do this. As mentioned, a fast tackle interceptor or frigate should not be allowed to live if it goes GCC on a gate. If it can, there will be absolutely no traffic in lowsec because it will simply be too risky. This will also make it impossible for pirates to use logi on gates even if they are aggressed first, since the logi will be flagged for repairing -5's and will be popped in
short order.
For all the moaning and complaining from lowsec and FW people, it's not actually that bad. We don't need frigate combat on gates. If your intention is stop almost all pvp in lowsec except for FW, then this change is fabulous. Otherwise, it is a horrible idea on some many levels.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
2736
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Posted - 2012.08.06 01:13:00 -
[278] - Quote
Remember everyone, this is a thread about the minutes, there are plenty of threads popping up to discuss the content itself.
For those concerned about the gate gun changes, there's been a decent discussion going on over here. I'm sure its not the only thread, but its the one I've been posting in if you want to see how I feel about the gate gun change.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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mjgvjbk
Rio Tinto Jnr
Bluescope Mining
27
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Posted - 2012.08.06 05:20:00 -
[279] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Remember everyone, this is a thread about the minutes, there are plenty of threads popping up to discuss the content itself. For those concerned about the gate gun changes, there's been a decent discussion going on over here. I'm sure its not the only thread, but its the one I've been posting in if you want to see how I feel about the gate gun change.
People are talking about the minute you num nut thats why the main concern about ccp fuking up low sec which was talked about in the minutes DOH!!!! |
BlankStare
Aideron Technologies
Sspectre
2
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Posted - 2012.08.06 07:23:00 -
[280] - Quote
Maybe next time it would be better to have separate 'official' threads for each section of the minutes and merely have a locked thread which links to each of them from the first post. |
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Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
7
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:15:00 -
[281] - Quote
I've only just started reading the Minutes, just got down to this part
Quote:he noted that some people do not run for CSM because they don't want their real-life identity associated with their in-game character
I can confirm that I for one have never run because of this. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Project Wildfire
373
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:29:00 -
[282] - Quote
tl;dr |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
971
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:30:00 -
[283] - Quote
I liked the conversational minutes format from the first part, but can understand if it is too much work.
I also liked the style of the rest of the minutes with attributable quotes and such.
Great work everyone who contributed, thanks!
Content:
- POS changes - DO WANT! All of it! Nao! :)
- Gate guns ramping up - Ugh, Don't like.
- CSM members should elect their chairperson.
- Real Names and accounability are fine.
- Scamming for votes, C'est la EVE.
Overall, it sounded like a good meet. Thanks to all!
Here's your sign... |
Ogogov
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Ogogov wrote:Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM. Ever heard of an Ancillary Shield Booster? 
Since when does a shield booster affect armor tanking? Try again. |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
5
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Posted - 2012.08.06 17:31:00 -
[285] - Quote
In regards to the ship balancing of fleet command ships/t3 boost ships, one thing that is not touched upon in the minutes but is by a previous poster is the mindlinks. I have had situations like the following:
Fleet is forming up, shield fleet with skirmish bonuses. I'm presently in a jump clone with the skirmish mindlink, so that works. Jump in the claymore or boosting loki...
...Change of plans. AHAC. Okay, so I jump clone to my armor mindlink clone and get in my damnation. Which is fine, unless the fleet type changes yet again, or if there is a fleet later I would like to be a booster for, but I can no longer provide mindlink boost unless I destroy the mindlink presently in my clone. And frankly, ganglinks without a mindlink are so inferior to those with a mindlink, and mindlinks are not cheap (except information mindlinks, and no one has to wonder why).
I might be reading too much into it, but it sounds like the t3 ships will retain their superior boosting bonuses over the t2 fleet command ships, which are presently only good for being ganglink platforms (though the damnation can make a good bait ship due to the incredibly amount of EHP it can have). When I want to have fun in a command ship, I fly a field command ship. All of them except the nighthawk are fun (nighthawk: a tankier version of the drake, and that's about it). Fleet command ships are about providing boost, and for the FCs. something to call targets from. While the FC's needs from a command ship are important, let's not forget that for that one FC, there are up to five wing commanders in that same fleet, flying fleet command ships or boosting t3s. The wing commanders need something to do besides sit there and provide boost.
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
29
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Posted - 2012.08.06 19:05:00 -
[286] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Remember everyone, this is a thread about the minutes, there are plenty of threads popping up to discuss the content itself. For those concerned about the gate gun changes, there's been a decent discussion going on over here. I'm sure its not the only thread, but its the one I've been posting in if you want to see how I feel about the gate gun change.
In that case, I love the new format. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1702
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:51:00 -
[287] - Quote
Quote:CCP Unifex asked, to simply explore the option, how it would be received to simply completely randomly reseed the moon resources?
While the question might represent an extreme solution, Two step and Elise responded that it would be GÇÿcoolGÇÖ but not the best solution in terms of the community GÇô Two step added that an added pain to that would be the pain of having to scan all the moons again. He added that as a solution it would only be GÇÿkicking the can down the roadGÇÖ, it wouldnGÇÖt solve anything but might buy CCP some time until ring mining is ready.
I really lost interest in reading after that. Sorry but Unifex is right. This reseeding the moons is EXACTLY what is needed. Crying about having to rescan the moons for goo is pathetic. What happened to EVE being harsh? What happened to risk vs reward?
If you don't want to scan moons for goo then don't...hire someone to do it for you!
BTW...every thread I recall reading on this subject was vastly in favor of reseeding moon goo...the only ones complaining about it are the very few who don't want to have to scan it down. I have spend days on days in wormholes scanning crap down just to make a living...I don't feel sorry for you. CSM dropped the ball on this one.
So I read a bit further and Soundwave says it is too much to ask players to move around after building up a system?! WHAT?!
For gods sake...
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
5
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Posted - 2012.08.07 04:34:00 -
[288] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:This reseeding the moons is EXACTLY what is needed.
Ring mining is a much better solution. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
411
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Posted - 2012.08.07 11:59:00 -
[289] - Quote
Hooray for getting ring mining at some unspecified point in the future.
Hooray for getting updated POS's at some unspecified point in the future.
Hooray for getting exploration style gameplay for Incarna at some unspecified point in the future.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1703
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 13:26:00 -
[290] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:This reseeding the moons is EXACTLY what is needed. Ring mining is a much better solution.
Sure it is...but it's something that is a LONG way off. Having moons reseed or deplete and randomly respawn somewhere else in the galaxy would be a lot easier to implement in the short term. Not to mention it would be a great supplement to ring mining as well.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
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Taawuz
Enterprise Estonia
Northern Coalition.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.07 13:57:00 -
[291] - Quote
"The meeting is wrapping up, CCP Sreegs states that thereGÇÖs no real way to launder ISK anymore, CCP runs the game and is able to see everything that goes on."
If I wanted to launder money, I'd make a lottery.
*cough*blink*cough* |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
321
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Posted - 2012.08.07 14:09:00 -
[292] - Quote
Ogogov wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Ogogov wrote:Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM. Ever heard of an Ancillary Shield Booster? Since when does a shield booster affect armor tanking? Try again.
a shield booster affects armor tanking in the same way as projectiles and lasers affect railguns
eve is a cutthroat game and by increasing the value of an alternative you create a disincentive to use the non-buffed option because every advantage matters |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
302
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Posted - 2012.08.07 18:27:00 -
[293] - Quote
Taawuz wrote:"The meeting is wrapping up, CCP Sreegs states that thereGÇÖs no real way to launder ISK anymore, CCP runs the game and is able to see everything that goes on."
If I wanted to launder money, I'd make a lottery.
*cough*blink*cough* LMAO. This casino / bank / safe vault is completely impenetrable and a theft could never occur. Ever.
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Taawuz
Enterprise Estonia
Northern Coalition.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:26:00 -
[294] - Quote
"CCP Dr.EyjoGGÇÖs response was a masterpiece of obfuscation and evasion"
Can I have what he said in verbatim? |
Taawuz
Enterprise Estonia
Northern Coalition.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:27:00 -
[295] - Quote
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:Taawuz wrote:"The meeting is wrapping up, CCP Sreegs states that thereGÇÖs no real way to launder ISK anymore, CCP runs the game and is able to see everything that goes on."
If I wanted to launder money, I'd make a lottery.
*cough*blink*cough* LMAO. This casino / bank / safe vault is completely impenetrable and a theft could never occur. Ever.
Unless I was Somer Blink and wanted to launder some of my RMT money.
*cough*
Launder =/= Theft. |
Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
2
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Posted - 2012.08.07 21:11:00 -
[296] - Quote
There is so much improvement potential buried in the drafts and nonsensical wishes.
eg1: Seleene p61 ".. requiring "unicorn manureGÇ¥ to build the best thing .."
That is what rare ores and Morphite were supposed to be, they are now no longer unique, unicorn manure and space whale oil will go the same route. If they are static resources they will also go the way of the moongoo. A bad idea despite the "romantic" touch, imho.
eg2: D-Scan p81: Some long time ago there was an external program that simply created a transparent circle in the desktop foreground. When the client was run in window mode, it corresponded with the cones spread against the background for a given angle. Supersimple , yet supereffective.
eg3: Ship fitter p78: Right-click menu to assign a fit to a ship? really? A long tree to navigate through again? What about pre-filter options, they can be both a curse (battleship fits for frigs and vice versa) and a blessing (omni hardener kits CAN be plausible for all ship sizes) but already foreshadow to be messy.
Why not being able to drag&drop a fit from the fitting manager to a ship in your hangar in order to fit it accordingly?
'could go on for hours with this.
I am surprised the unnecessary randomness T3 production and ridiculous uniform material reqs for preferred / unfavored subsystems were not brought up.
And the page numbering in TOC on p2 is off.
--
Please like me, I'm an attention w*ore. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
414
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Posted - 2012.08.08 01:56:00 -
[297] - Quote
Did CCP mention when tattoos where going to be released?
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
371
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Posted - 2012.08.08 05:16:00 -
[298] - Quote
i like the new format |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
2245
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:51:00 -
[299] - Quote
Taawuz wrote:"CCP Dr.EyjoGGÇÖs response was a masterpiece of obfuscation and evasion"
Can I have what he said in verbatim?
He said "NDA NDA NDA NDA ... NDA NDA NDA"
The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy
Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2012.08.09 17:05:00 -
[300] - Quote
tl;dr
I've seen a lot of back-patting and slight-of-hand. What exactly is being FIXED with EveO as a result of this "awesome" CSM? |
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