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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.10.16 08:58:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48 It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
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Jita Bloodtear
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Posted - 2010.10.16 09:31:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48 Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
Except for the whole part about if people trim back their accounts in droves because of high prices, then the demand for PLEX will dry up and CCP will have fewer paying accounts. Let's not pretend that paying via PLEX is not paying... --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.10.16 09:54:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it.
Might it also mean that people need to sell less PLEX to achieve their ISK goal so buy less?
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Guilliman R
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.16 09:55:00 -
[124]
Prediction at current rates: Bubble will pop by the end of tomorrow (sunday). ------
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Mrs Retina
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Posted - 2010.10.16 12:42:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Prediction at current rates: Bubble will pop by the end of tomorrow (sunday).
I doubt prices will start to fall until after the release of Incursion. Even then CCP will probably want the price to stay above 400M.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.10.16 15:08:00 -
[126]
hope it will fall soon, want to swith my accounts to plex, but it's far too expensive currently :p and of course i'm not the only one, at this price few will buy, only investissors / traders will do ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
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Posted - 2010.10.16 19:45:00 -
[127]
379 now
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Lafaela
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Posted - 2010.10.17 04:29:00 -
[128]
Down to 365 in Jita with best buy at 360.
Looks like the bubble is burst.
I wait with interest to hear if the manipulator got what he wanted...
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Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
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Posted - 2010.10.17 04:39:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Zelot Blueice on 17/10/2010 04:39:56 *raises eyebrow* Indeed.
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Netheranthem
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Posted - 2010.10.17 07:46:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48 It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
In my opinion, this is flawed. If plex aren't worth buying, then people won't buy much of these and the price might raise. If plexes, on the other side, are expensive, more people will buy them, and less people interesting in giving out ISK for these. which could make the prices fall. CCP doesn't make much more money from an account run with plexes than a normal one (A few $ difference though, from their price). It's in the interest of CCP that Plexes keep being low, so that a maximum of people will want to get their account run by plexes.
Then if you add remap paid with a plex in the equation, it's a win/win for CCP and the players.
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Ruhige Schmerz
Valhalla Naval Corp IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.10.17 08:44:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Netheranthem
Originally by: Lillith Starfire Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48 It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
In my opinion, this is flawed. If plex aren't worth buying, then people won't buy much of these and the price might raise. If plexes, on the other side, are expensive, more people will buy them, and less people interesting in giving out ISK for these. which could make the prices fall. CCP doesn't make much more money from an account run with plexes than a normal one (A few $ difference though, from their price). It's in the interest of CCP that Plexes keep being low, so that a maximum of people will want to get their account run by plexes.
Then if you add remap paid with a plex in the equation, it's a win/win for CCP and the players.
This is a simplistic view. Correct in the short term, but in the long term, the more remap type services CCP introduces, that destroy plex without converting it into game time, the better for CCP.
The ISK price of plex will naturally go up, as more demand is created by people who use plex for these services who otherwise have no use for it.
The more important part though is it takes plex off the market, which is good for CCP period. Every plex on the market represents debt exposure to them; they've taken payment for a service (play time) that they cannot, reliably, predict the cash-out date on.
If it ever gets to a point where the number of plex outstanding is a significant fraction of the number of subscribers, they have a problem, because that plex can potentially be cashed out for game time and instantly effect their bottom line.
In a 'worst case' scenario, imagine eve has only 100 subscribers, and there are 300 plex outstanding. All 100 players buy 3 plex and redeem them for game time. CCP revenue (from eve) falls to zero for three months. These days, very few companies can survive that sort of occurrence.
If they're being wise, they recognize the risk, and all the money they collect from plex is going into an interest bearing escrow account that they can only draw off of as the plex is redeemed and removed from the eve economy, but that kind of fiscal responsibility is exceedingly rare.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.17 09:34:00 -
[132]
Crashing PLEX market is crashing Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Rasz Lin
Caldari Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.17 12:25:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Crashing PLEX market is crashing
It is "crashing" the same way it was crashing 3 weeks ago, just a small price correction
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Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.17 13:09:00 -
[134]
Oh no you didn't!
(remember the time)
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Guilliman R
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.17 13:48:00 -
[135]
200 plex sale order up at 350mil (yes 200 plex!)
Told you :) ------
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Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.17 14:21:00 -
[136]
Right.
So... why did I do all this?
Primary reason: I was bored.
Secondary reason: I've been stockpiling PLEX since they sold at 270 mil/u.
Total summary:
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.10.17 14:31:00 -
[137]
Cute, like a water droplet that thinks he's the river.
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Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.17 14:36:00 -
[138]
Yet, apparently, a water droplet... can cause a river.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:13:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Dositheus Right.
So... why did I do all this?
Primary reason: I was bored.
Secondary reason: I've been stockpiling PLEX since they sold at 270 mil/u.
Total summary:
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Are those numbers for the latest manipulation or does it cover the previously stockpiled with a loss in the latest operation? Does it include current unsold stock? At what price are you valuing the stock left?
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Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:20:00 -
[140]
Covers both the loss of the manip (where prices were pushed up), which came to be about 4-5 bil loss, and the profit from the old stockpiles.
As for potentially remaining stockpiled PLEX, I'll leave those numbers unsaid :)
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.17 18:02:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
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Ash Donai
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:30:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
Please refrain from using logic to discredit a highly skilled market manipulation. |
Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.17 23:34:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
Figuring that you were a good boy and did the calculations, you're probably correct.
Although, about 450 out of those PLEX were purchased a week ago.
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Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
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Posted - 2010.10.18 01:07:00 -
[144]
Dositheus, in a weeks time no one will remember your name. You will melt into the rest of the community again. To be honest, no one cares.
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Kosher Jew
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:09:00 -
[145]
This thread was a quality read.
- the Jew
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Cedo Nulli
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Posted - 2010.10.18 09:10:00 -
[146]
The song for ending this thread is clearly "The lonely island - space olympics"
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Tasko Pal
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.18 10:06:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
You got a better return on investment and effort for that much isk? There's only a few things at that combination of capital and effort that could generate that sort of yield. He just did one of them.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.10.18 11:13:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice Dositheus, in a weeks time no one will remember your name. You will melt into the rest of the community again. To be honest, no one cares.
He's probably quite happy with that.
Originally by: Zelot Blueice To be honest, no one cares.
From your whinging in this thread, I guess that one person cared.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.10.18 14:36:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold. 17.8 billion net profit. Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
You got a better return on investment and effort for that much isk? There's only a few things at that combination of capital and effort that could generate that sort of yield. He just did one of them.
By his own words, 450 of them were bought "a week ago" which means that 400 of them were stockpiled around 270, which is 108 billion worth. Had he simply (slowly) sold them off around the 340-350ish mark they were at before he began, he would have made somewhere between 28 and 32 billion isk, minus broker's fees.
So, yes. However, that doesn't account for his given reason number one, namely, "I was bored". Boredom can justify smaller returns for a larger investment if doing so is funny.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.10.18 18:01:00 -
[150]
Originally by: corestwo
By his own words, 450 of them were bought "a week ago" which means that 400 of them were stockpiled around 270, which is 108 billion worth. Had he simply (slowly) sold them off around the 340-350ish mark they were at before he began, he would have made somewhere between 28 and 32 billion isk, minus broker's fees.
Not around 270, but from 270 and upwards, and he has said that loss from the latest manipulation is 4-5B, so 21.8B-22.8B profit on 400 plexes, that would be 55.75M aprox. on profit per PLEX, so average cost per PLEX would be around 300M (given that manipulation started with PLEXes selling at around 360M). That's 120B invested. That's an 18.58% return over six months, or a little more than 3%/month, now how good is that depends on how much time was invested, T4U was almost there iirc with insignificant time invested, on the other side this investment has more liquidity. I don't know other operations of this magnitude to compare with.
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