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Jita Bloodtear
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:57:00 -
[1]
Someone is trying to do so right now. He seems to want them listed at around 500mil. If you want to make a quick buck, list the PLEX you bought this morning at 365 for like 450mil, if he wants to maintain control of the market he has to buy them out.
/Don't like people messing with the PLEX market
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Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:01:00 -
[2]
PLEX scams/manipulation isn't against the rules? I thought CCP had fixed that...
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:04:00 -
[3]
Not against the rules, but it will fail shortly.
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Bel Arvardan
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Bel Arvardan on 09/10/2010 22:25:39
 Originally by: AtheistOfFail
PLEX scams/manipulation isn't against the rules? I thought CCP had fixed that...
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
/Don't like people messing with the PLEX market
You guys dont get it. This person is pretty damn stupid. He is giving billions away with his futile attempt. Why would CCP not allow anyone to spread his isk among the people?
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Charles37
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:25:00 -
[5]
If you're going to move plex from the other market hubs, remember that Kestrels are the vehicle of choice to use.
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Bel Arvardan
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:32:00 -
[6]
Party is over.
The guy wiped jita completely 20 minutes ago. And now there are above 100 PLEX on the market again, prices dropping steadily. In a few hors everything will be back to normal.
He gave billions away.
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Jita Bloodtear
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:40:00 -
[7]
Ya, the manipulation has failed to rise as high as he'd have liked. It'll probably settle out at about 375 now instead of 365 which it was before though. He may still be at work, there are quite a few large buy orders for PLEX that are being .01'd by marketeers yearning for that MUST HAVE MY PLEX NOW feeling. If we can destroy the buy orders, then plex prices will drop again
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Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bel Arvardan
He gave billions away.
/me waits for the Jita Scammers to start it off.
Originally by: Smart Jita Scammer
I Just Manipulated the Plex Market and i'm quitting the game. Send me any isk and i'll double it
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TooFatToFish
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:51:00 -
[9]
Back to 415 :/
Popcorn
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Bel Arvardan
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:53:00 -
[10]
He or they are not giving up yet. Above 400 again.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.09 23:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
PLEX scams/manipulation isn't against the rules? I thought CCP had fixed that...
Why would they be against the rules?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.10.09 23:08:00 -
[12]
theres almost not any plex left on jita at the moment i speak
also all amarr's stock is diseapearing
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
TooFatToFish
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Posted - 2010.10.09 23:15:00 -
[13]
My tinfoil hat told me Iceland's fiscal year ends soon.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:01:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 10/10/2010 00:13:13
And it's over. Waste of money.
Anyone got the name of the guy by any chance? The level of stupidity displayed here was directly proportional with the money invested. Both huge.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Raid'En
theres almost not any plex left on jita at the moment i speak
also all amarr's stock is diseapearing
There's nothing wrong with my stock.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 10/10/2010 00:13:13
And it's over. Waste of money.
Anyone got the name of the guy by any chance? The level of stupidity displayed here was directly proportional with the money invested. Both huge.
I wasn't watching directly but a buddy of mine who was said it was NeoNoxie. He's very obviously an alt, what with the jan 10 2010 birth date.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: corestwo
I wasn't watching directly but a buddy of mine who was said it was NeoNoxie. He's very obviously an alt, what with the jan 10 2010 birth date.
Poor thing.
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Old Market
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:37:00 -
[18]
It all started when a big order of 419 plex disappear from buy order.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:37:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Raid''En on 10/10/2010 00:38:41
damn i came 10seconds to late when trying to resell at high price, the orders was already fulfilled... was only able to avoid losing money
this failed manipulation was really quick anyway, i understand better why it's only the 1st time i saw one
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
Old Market
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:45:00 -
[20]
whoever did this have a lot of isk in his wallet, so dont think plex will drop soon since this guy will not let his investment go worthless
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 10/10/2010 00:48:27
Originally by: Old Market
whoever did this have a lot of isk in his wallet, so dont think plex will drop soon since this guy will not let his investment go worthless
Are you watching the market?! Already dropped.
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Old Market
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:51:00 -
[22]
I am, seems like all 370m sell orders are gone now
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:53:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 10/10/2010 00:55:19
Originally by: Old Market
I am, seems like all 370m sell orders are gone now
Wait few more minutes. He's trying again to artificially raise the price. And will fail badly. Again.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:01:00 -
[24]
I get the feeling its not a one guy, but a few of them trying to capitalize on plex for remap.
The ones I listed got bought out immediately by Dositheus, nice clean 1 day old alt.
Im not complaining, I made 500mil in 10 minutes.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:02:00 -
[25]
Its hard to corner a market with infinite supply....
... well I guess in practial terms the suupply might not be that elastic....
sound more like a short term manipulation than a mid term thing
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:04:00 -
[26]
Cmon hit 400 again so I can offload whole Lonetrek supply :P
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:06:00 -
[27]
It's days like this where I wish I had a spare million dollars laying around to dump 66666 PLEXes on the market.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
I get the feeling its not a one guy, but a few of them trying to capitalize on plex for remap.
The ones I listed got bought out immediately by Dositheus, nice clean 1 day old alt.
Im not complaining, I made 500mil in 10 minutes.
Not complaining either, made more with no effort.
But it's not someone trying to capitalize on plex for remap because if so he would have bought quietly at low prices, not try to raise them. It's just a failed manipulation.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:14:00 -
[29]
I meant capitalizing on the hype surrounding plex for remap. Not to mention plex is rising sharp for the last two months, maybe its not the first time this person was bumping it at off peak hours (<1K people in Jita).
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Old Market
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:19:00 -
[30]
I was watching the market and a few orders always get in front of his big order and finally he got ****
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:29:00 -
[31]
he moved the price 12-14mil up, wouldnt call this %^&$&
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
he moved the price 12-14mil up, wouldnt call this %^&$&
He bought lots of plexes at a price way higher than those 12M, many even at over 400M. 12M (which won't last) doesn't even begin to cover the huge investment.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:53:00 -
[33]
Well, someone said they had 500m isk sell orders bought ought, by a character named "Dositheus" or something, which is a one day alt. NeoNoxie may not actually be involved in the manipulation.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.10 03:03:00 -
[34]
And prices are back, like it never happened, really. Except that some poor creature sits on few hundred plexes bought with 380-500M and looking at either losing some billions now or wait hoping that plex price will go up sometimes in an uncertain future. Both cases: awful. First is accepting a large lose now, second is hoping that he might break even in some months if plex price rise, and even so, ends up having hundreds of billions invested for nothing.
Being the laughing stock of MD comes as a free bonus to all this.
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Mishkaii
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Posted - 2010.10.10 03:27:00 -
[35]
And he might have gotten away with it if not for some pesky equilibriums of supply and demand and elasticities!
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Mini Tee
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Posted - 2010.10.10 09:54:00 -
[36]
Whats up with the price history. Very fishy 
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.10.10 11:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mishkaii
And he might have gotten away with it if not for some pesky equilibriums of supply and demand and elasticities!
'
You meddling kids! 
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clixoras
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Posted - 2010.10.10 11:12:00 -
[38]
I think it would've been more effective in the week, in the weekend plex-prices are always volatile. If he's smart he'll sit on the stock and cash in later.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.10.10 14:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: clixoras
If he's smart he'll sit on the stock and cash in later.
You know what they say about assumptions.
______________________________
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Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.10 15:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: clixoras
If he's smart he'll sit on the stock and cash in later.
You know what they say about assumptions.
Cats die?
------
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.10.10 17:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Boltorano
Originally by: Mishkaii
And he might have gotten away with it if not for some pesky equilibriums of supply and demand and elasticities!
'
You meddling kids!
And your dog too! 
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Jita Bloodtear
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Posted - 2010.10.10 17:17:00 -
[42]
It would seem he's getting closer to accomplishing his goal... PLEX are now selling at 387.4, and buying at 380. If he paid an average of 400 for each, he's getting close to earning a profit now. I am disappoint. There was a window where we had pushed them back down to buy orders at 358. If you look at buy orders there's a thin shell arbitrarily at 378 when the last logical increment would have been 367. Someone is still pushing them higher, and everyone is .01'ing him, and then he'll just relist a few mil higher, and then we .01 him again.
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Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2010.10.10 18:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
Someone is trying to do so right now.
I think there's a chance you will personally profit if people will increase PLEX prices by buying PLEX now.
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000 000
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Posted - 2010.10.11 00:05:00 -
[44]
Price history:
2010.10.10 | 0 orders | 0 quantity | low/high/avg all 366m |
Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.10.11 00:19:00 -
[45]
you gotta be pretty stupid to try this kinda thing without totally bying out the markets in all other regions and without having atleast 4trillion to your name.
knowledge is power |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.10.11 00:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Grozen
you gotta be pretty stupid to try this kinda thing without totally bying out the markets in all other regions and without having atleast 4trillion to your name.
Must be that f9 guy. |
Kagar
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.11 08:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: 000 000
Price history:
2010.10.10 | 0 orders | 0 quantity | low/high/avg all 366m
Something fishy going on there indeed, an item that has been traded in each and every day as long as it existed isn't traded for a whole day long?
CCP explanation please.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.10.11 09:26:00 -
[48]
of course the numbers are wrong. it's a bug who happen very often.
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.11 10:07:00 -
[49]
its a feature :) server filters out single high/low transactions - it works for items traded in bulk, but screws up PLEX stats
btw plex still climbing, 400mil at the end of the week sounds totally reasonable (its already 400mil in less populated regions)
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.11 10:24:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 11/10/2010 10:28:17
400mill ?
Nice, Last week I bought a plex for 240m, and yesterday one for 330m.
I like it cheap. 
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Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.11 10:32:00 -
[51]
Good times to dump 500$ in plex *grabs credit card* :O
------
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.11 14:50:00 -
[52]
Bah, I like my PLEX nice and cheap at sub 300 mill :P
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.10.11 16:43:00 -
[53]
Hmmm.
You know it would be funny if someone bought out all the plex in Jita, put up a 500m/plex buy order, and then camped the Jita gates for people trying to bring plex into the system.
Is that going on?
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olliurps
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Posted - 2010.10.11 16:52:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
Hmmm.
You know it would be funny if someone bought out all the plex in Jita, put up a 500m/plex buy order, and then camped the Jita gates for people trying to bring plex into the system.
Is that going on?
Shhhh!
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.11 16:56:00 -
[55]
1. Buy up all PLEX in Jita
2. Load PLEX into Kestrel and undock
3. ??????
4. Profit!
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.11 17:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
Hmmm.
You know it would be funny if someone bought out all the plex in Jita, put up a 500m/plex buy order, and then camped the Jita gates for people trying to bring plex into the system.
Is that going on?
If done properly, ppl would still get their PLEX in, the afk-autopiloting-in-a-poorly-tanked-ship-tosser would be in a bit of trouble though if this was the case.
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Kubikiri Basara
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Posted - 2010.10.11 17:04:00 -
[57]
Someone is attempting the same in dodixie
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Roismatola
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:20:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Roismatola on 11/10/2010 18:21:27
All of this may be very true, the guy isn't getting his money worth for the plex, but in the long run things couldn't be worst. The mineral price just keeps lowering and the plex which was around 300M is now impossible to get under 370M. In the long run this is crashing the market even more and destroying the plex viabillity for everyone in the game... At this rate people will have to spend the whole month mining just to pay the plex.
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Marshiro
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:23:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Roismatola
Edited by: Roismatola on 11/10/2010 18:21:27
In the long run this is crashing the market even more and destroying the plex viabillity for everyone in the game... At this rate people will have to spend the whole month mining just to pay the plex.
ITS CCP CONSPIRACY TO RAISE PLEX PRICES?  
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Roismatola
Edited by: Roismatola on 11/10/2010 18:21:27
All of this may be very true, the guy isn't getting his money worth for the plex, but in the long run things couldn't be worst. The mineral price just keeps lowering and the plex which was around 300M is now impossible to get under 370M. In the long run this is crashing the market even more and destroying the plex viabillity for everyone in the game... At this rate people will have to spend the whole month mining just to pay the plex.
So, people will stop buying plex, some of the demand will dry up, prices will fall. Maybe.
On the other hand, those people could try something more profitable than mining to get their plex money. Like pretty much anything else in the game.
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eliaja
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:26:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Marshiro
Originally by: Roismatola
Edited by: Roismatola on 11/10/2010 18:21:27
In the long run this is crashing the market even more and destroying the plex viabillity for everyone in the game... At this rate people will have to spend the whole month mining just to pay the plex.
ITS CCP CONSPIRACY TO RAISE PLEX PRICES?
there may be more truth to that than we all may realize. tbh thats exactly what i would do if this were my company.
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Roismatola
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:33:00 -
[62]
actually there ain't many thing more profiable than mining, especially for those who don't hve a few years of game on it. Although one would expect prices to lower if people didn't bought it, those guys buying all the plex bellow 400M and selling higher will not allow it to happen. As it is, it's a giant sinkhole already and I doubt they will stop doing it. It would be much more viable if people simply stopped buying at all unless the price was 300M or bellow. Of course, the chances of making it happen are just staggering.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:57:00 -
[63]
Mmm people still fighting with the new price, but losing. Jita hit >389mil few times already, and there is less than ~50 plexes on sell orders below that price, not to mention less populated regions are already at 400.
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2010.10.12 03:43:00 -
[64]
Thanks bro!
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Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.10.12 04:38:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
Someone is trying to do so right now. He seems to want them listed at around 500mil. If you want to make a quick buck, list the PLEX you bought this morning at 365 for like 450mil, if he wants to maintain control of the market he has to buy them out.
/Don't like people messing with the PLEX market
It's already old news. The minute Torfi announced plex for remap after Incursion, all existing Plex were bound to shoot up.
You don't catch that? too bad. Move along. |
Ovella
|
Posted - 2010.10.12 06:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Roismatola
actually there ain't many thing more profiable than mining
oh noes, I did it all wrong! I should sell my golem and buy myself a hulk ASAP!
Originally by: Roismatola
especially for those who don't hve a few years of game on it.
Ninja-salvaging? Get yourself an AE & you have 10M... finding one in an hour or two is quite easy (not to mention you'll get other missions while you at it).
How much people get for trit (or whatever highsec stuff they mining) nowadays? 5M/h? 10?
Originally by: Xylopia
The minute Torfi announced plex for remap after Incursion, all existing Plex were bound to shoot up.
Plus it's quite usual thing for someone to manipulate PLEXes up before "expansion" (or whatever it's called). Tho this effort continues for more than half a year already. What I'm intrested in: is it really profitable thing to do or is it's just for lulz? |
Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.10.12 07:34:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Xylopia on 12/10/2010 07:37:32
Originally by: Ovella
Originally by: Xylopia
The minute Torfi announced plex for remap after Incursion, all existing Plex were bound to shoot up.
Plus it's quite usual thing for someone to manipulate PLEXes up before "expansion" (or whatever it's called). Tho this effort continues for more than half a year already. What I'm intrested in: is it really profitable thing to do or is it's just for lulz?
This wasn't the first time Plex gets some love.
It was Q1 '09 (if my dumb gray brain cells serves me correct) when CCP announced they would accept plex for fanfest ticket. In addition to that, kids from summer vacation weighted in. Few ppl quickly took the opportunity and massaged Plex a bit. The end? price hovered well over 400m, and every Joe and Marry were screaming.
Seeing that, I don't think that Plex has reached its peak yet. Like other manipulation attempts at many different times, I think this one will go well 'cuz there are ppl who want to remap their attribute more than once in a year. Especially at the moment remap is enabled with Plex first time, the demand will be there and strong.
If you ask me, I'd say well over 400m and close to 450m after patch. (Yup, I just pull some number from my candy ass.) So, in terms of jingle jingle, yeah, I think there are some to make.
Back to '09. After that incident, funny repercussion was few nice folks stocked up Plex at around 300m thinking "Plex is gold!, teh invincible! hehehe!", and price eventually subdued down to less than 300m for a good while.
You know the rest.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.10.12 13:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Roismatola
Edited by: Roismatola on 11/10/2010 18:21:27
All of this may be very true, the guy isn't getting his money worth for the plex, but in the long run things couldn't be worst. The mineral price just keeps lowering and the plex which was around 300M is now impossible to get under 370M. In the long run this is crashing the market even more and destroying the plex viabillity for everyone in the game... At this rate people will have to spend the whole month mining just to pay the plex.
Originally by: Roismatola
actually there ain't many thing more profiable than mining, especially for those who don't hve a few years of game on it. Although one would expect prices to lower if people didn't bought it, those guys buying all the plex bellow 400M and selling higher will not allow it to happen. As it is, it's a giant sinkhole already and I doubt they will stop doing it. It would be much more viable if people simply stopped buying at all unless the price was 300M or bellow. Of course, the chances of making it happen are just staggering.
1. There are lots of things in-game more profitable than mining. LOTS. Mining is crap for income, but scales very easily and can be done while watching TV (or by bots).
2. Let's talk about PI. First, let's assume someone can maintain a ratio of 2 extractors per BIF- certainly very doable. Now, let's look at one character with level 4 skills; in order to pay for a 400 million ISK PLEX per month, they will need to sell their product at 427 ISK per unit; there are several products which have been at or above that level consistently. That's fairly low-maintenance. Now, how 'bout if they had all 3 characters on their account with level 5 skills? Then they would need to sell their product at about 105 ISK per unit to pay for 1 400m PLEX per month with just PI. Even Biofuels is above that mark.
Note that this is JUST from PI. It doesn't include anything else that you could be doing with that account every month. It also doesn't require hours of staring at asteroids in a weakly-tanked 130 million ISK ship. If you want to find candidates for why PLEXes are getting relatively more expensive, this is a good one.
***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing
*Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories
*Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! |
Lors Dornick
Caldari
Untied Dysleckticks
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 01:40:00 -
[69]
It's actually quite fun that despite all the combined brainwaves in this thread you've failed to note the obvious.
The dude behind this is doing it because he's having fun in a game flying spaceships.
Anyone who takes this thread serious has to step back and ponder what the hell they are doing.
// Lors |
Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.10.13 04:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Lors Dornick
Anyone who takes this thread serious has to step back and ponder what the hell they are doing.
But intrenet spaecships--is srs bsnz!!!!!!!! 
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.13 10:27:00 -
[71]
woohoo my 420mil plex orders started firing today :D
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Inbrainsane
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Posted - 2010.10.13 12:55:00 -
[72]
I just checked several RMT sites and compared their prices for isk with the current price of isk you get via PLEX trade.
Result:
With the recent spike in PLEX prices, several RMT offers are no longer competitive.
At Battleclinic you pay 35$ for 2 PLEX. At current jita price this is ISK21.7M/$1.
RMT offer from ISK20M/$1 (which is LESS than that what you get the legal way) to ISK30M/$1 (only certain sites and only for large quantities).
Conclusion:
RMT should be out of business for small quantites of ISK. In large quantities you still get up to 50% more ISK for each $ but large quantites are more likely to get detected and the banhammer is something you do not want to risk.
Market impact:
The more people realise that RMT is unattractive compared to PLEX the more PLEX will be generated. So it is unlikely that the PLEX price will continue to rise from its current value unless RMTs make better offers.
Boys, do not buy from RMT. Use PLEX instead. You will get almost as much ISK/$ (or even more) if you use PLEX.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.13 13:50:00 -
[73]
Interesting, that would suggest only RTMers want the price to stay low. Normal traders would love rising prices (you automagically gain between the time your low buy orders get filled and the time you relist), normal players wouldnt have the isk/energy to do anything beyond whining. If you look at Jita there were few people actively fighting price spike by listing roadblocks (10-20 PLEX sell orders 3-5mill below cheapest price, going as low as 100K above buy price so in effect cheaper than buy when you count taxes).
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Lecherito
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:02:00 -
[74]
Eventually it will reach a point where people start dropping superfluous accounts simply because they can't justify the monthly plex cost. That's when plex market goes bust.
-L
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Oratassi
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 15:41:00 -
[75]
Isn't other goods' price going to rise as well.
Most posts stated from a buyer point of view on plex,
there are ppl that pay real $$ for isk.
IMO, plex is becoming a hard currency in eve.(like gold in real world.)
If there is no control policies like CPI (consumer price index) or global agreement,
the price will just keep rising to no end.
The only way to count this without regulating would be increase consumer goods' price,
Means everything cost more to justify plex price.
A sudden inflation will ruin the days of many,
as mission grinding etc with game fixing income value... Well u know the story's ending.
Those guys are the would-be cause of world economic crush in eve..
Damn, just like in the real world in recent history.
This game is so real!
So much for eve free market, I wonder what would mission runners do by then.
For this reason, I think CCP will interfere. Carebears are in large population.
This can not turn into long term situation.
The fun period would be the time before CCP act.
**the above is only true if the players are really having that much purchases of plex from real money pays, to exchange for in game isk.
Since i don't know how large a proportion of players buying plex with real money,
I can tell. The above saying is very possible.
And lastly, if there is a sharp trend of changing of anything,
that means profit for brave souls, or total bank corrupt. =)
Sori for crappy English if 's any.
|
Oratassi
Caldari
Oratage Star Grid
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 15:46:00 -
[76]
I hate iPhone auto-fix. Anyway I guess the post could be readable.
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Bairre Craven
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 21:51:00 -
[77]
The situation is getting worse and worse. Propobly this will end only when the whole eve economy collapse.
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ReptilesBlade
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 23:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Xylopia
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
/Don't like people messing with the PLEX market
It's already old news. The minute Torfi announced plex for remap after Incursion, all existing Plex were bound to shoot up.You don't catch that? too bad. Move along.
Where did Torfi announce the PLEX remap after Incursion?
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 23:46:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Bairre Craven
The situation is getting worse and worse. Propobly this will end only when the whole eve economy collapse.
What do you mean worse? Who else apart from brokeass mission runners wants PLEX to be cheap?
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Raid'En
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 23:55:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
What do you mean worse? Who else apart from brokeass mission runners wants PLEX to be cheap?
everyone who is interested by using them ?
----------------
** Wormhole Trading ** |
Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 00:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: ReptilesBlade
Where did Torfi announce the PLEX remap after Incursion deployed?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-06-eve-ccp-gives-a-damn-interview?page=3 Quote:
Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills?
Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game.
That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game.
We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style.
Old news, my friend. |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 02:59:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Zelot Blueice on 14/10/2010 03:00:58
UPDATE ON PLEXS IN JITA
There are now 40 units of PLEXs being sold for 380mill flat. All the other sell orders are for 392ish.
Sounds like our mystery man has made his next move.
Edit: Now like it matters much, but now 39.
|
Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 03:11:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Xylopia
If you ask me, I'd say well over 400m and close to 450m after patch. (Yup, I just pull some number from my candy ass.) So, in terms of jingle jingle, yeah, I think there are some to make.
We'll see. |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 03:13:00 -
[84]
There are now 23 units left in that stack with 10 running up behind them 
|
Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 06:48:00 -
[85]
WTB 6 plex 320m a piece, anyone? :(
------
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Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 09:01:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 14/10/2010 09:02:10
The price of PLEX was a bit low indeed, but I don't think it'll go through the roof anytime soon.
If it gets to the point people start canceling accounts over it, I don't see CCP standing idle on this.
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 09:05:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Edit 3: By the way, the person who bought those plexs spent roughly 14,480M ISK. Just a bit below and they will be making roughly 17.5M per unit. Thats a petty 700mill profit. For 14.5 spent and make only 700M, thats weak.
You're assuming that his move was solely aimed at flipping the stuff he bought. Given a willingness to put this much effort into the plex market it is probably a fairly safe bet that he had large pre-existing stockpiles, which is where the real value increase will manifest.
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Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 09:10:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 14/10/2010 09:02:10
If it gets to the point people start canceling accounts over it, I don't see CCP standing idle on this.
If people cancel accounts or rather pay their accounts with IRL money as plex price gets higher and requires more effort to get, there will be a larger supply then demand, thus plex price will fix itself in time. However, if people are perfectly fine paying 400m per plex, then plex prices will balance towards 400m per plex eventually.
------
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Roguehalo
Caldari
Resonance Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 09:27:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Inbrainsane
I just checked several RMT sites and compared their prices for isk with the current price of isk you get via PLEX trade.
Result:
With the recent spike in PLEX prices, several RMT offers are no longer competitive.
At Battleclinic you pay 35$ for 2 PLEX. At current jita price this is ISK21.7M/$1.
RMT offer from ISK20M/$1 (which is LESS than that what you get the legal way) to ISK30M/$1 (only certain sites and only for large quantities).
Conclusion:
RMT should be out of business for small quantites of ISK. In large quantities you still get up to 50% more ISK for each $ but large quantites are more likely to get detected and the banhammer is something you do not want to risk.
Market impact:
The more people realise that RMT is unattractive compared to PLEX the more PLEX will be generated. So it is unlikely that the PLEX price will continue to rise from its current value unless RMTs make better offers.
Boys, do not buy from RMT. Use PLEX instead. You will get almost as much ISK/$ (or even more) if you use PLEX.
Hmm plexes ARE rmt
It's just that CCP are doing the rmting
When this game was 1st released it was a monthly subscription where everybody paid the same to play. That is no longer true and hasn't been for years. The financial basis of this game is now more akin to Entropia Universe. There is so much hypocrisy and double standards that have spewed from CCP over the last few years as to almost defy belief.
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Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 20:15:00 -
[90]
Who knew that I would create this must fuzz...
For the record:
None of you have managed to figure out why I did it, although some have been reasonably close.
And... the speculation as to how much I spent in total, as well as the average cost per PLEX has been completely inaccurate thus far.
|
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 20:49:00 -
[91]
My specuation on how much you spent was based on what I saw come up on immediate orders in such a large quantity. As for why, I have no idea. Perhaps to make a name for yourself? Corner the plex market? Be an example to CCP? I am not really sure, but please tell.
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Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 21:00:00 -
[92]
Maybe he just needed some PLEX right then and there.
In the end it doesn't really matter what the PLEX cost is, either you can easily generate enough ISK to cover your subs (whether it's 400 or 600mil/mo) or you can't. If you can easily make 400 then you can easily make 600 without much extra effort at all. If you can't then PLEX buying isn't for you in the first place and you may want to look at selling instead.
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Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 21:07:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Ash Donai on 14/10/2010 21:08:46
. |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:01:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ash Donai
If you can easily make 400 then you can easily make 600 without much extra effort at all.
Using that logic taken to its inevitable absurd end, 1+1=infinity, amirite ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:36:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ash Donai
If you can easily make 400 then you can easily make 600 without much extra effort at all.
Using that logic taken to its inevitable absurd end, 1+1=infinity, amirite ?
Actually 1+1=4 for very large numbers of 1.
Still, economy of scale obviously applies as most all traders are well aware of. It's fairly easy to make X per month with little effort, however, making X+1 is significantly more difficult even if you put in a lot of effort. This works with 400/600mil and to a lesser degree with 4/6bil, but obviously not with 40/60bil. |
Fan Li
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Why would it be in CCPs interest to raise PLEX prices? So that fewer people trade their ISK for PLEX, which means fewer PLEX are sold for ISK, which means fewer PLEX are bought for RL cash, which means less RL cash into CCPs coffers?
Did you consider that an increase in price would spike purchases of PLEX with cash and give the company a temporary boost in working capital and/or liquidity?
Certainly more people buy PLEX with cash to sell for ISK when plex is 400m versus 300m...
|
Fan Li
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:45:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Still, economy of scale obviously applies as most all traders are well aware of. It's fairly easy to make X per month with little effort, however, making X+1 is significantly more difficult even if you put in a lot of effort. This works with 400/600mil and to a lesser degree with 4/6bil, but obviously not with 40/60bil.
I'm not sure you understand what "Economies of Scale" are (or maybe I don't)...economies of scale have to do with costs and would be better used to determine the value of things like....the Accounting or Broker Relations skill...no?
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Salvage Queen
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:47:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Edited by: Ash Donai on 14/10/2010 21:11:57
Maybe he just needed some PLEX right then and there.
In the end it doesn't really matter what the PLEX cost is, either you can easily generate enough ISK to cover your subs (whether it's 400 or 600mil/mo) or you can't. If you can easily make 400 then you can easily make 600 without much extra effort at all. If you can't then PLEX buying isn't for you in the first place and you may want to look at selling instead.
Originally by: eliaja
Originally by: Marshiro
ITS CCP CONSPIRACY TO RAISE PLEX PRICES?
there may be more truth to that than we all may realize. tbh thats exactly what i would do if this were my company.
No you wouldn't or you wouldn't be running it very long.
Why would it be in CCPs interest to raise PLEX prices? So that fewer people trade their ISK for PLEX, which means fewer PLEX are sold for ISK, which means fewer PLEX are bought for RL cash, which means less RL cash into CCPs coffers?
Yup, that sure makes a lot of sense!
If anything it's someone trying to shaft CCP by raising the PLEX price so CCP get's less RL cash from PLEX sales. Which then would support why CCP allows all kinds of scamming but will intervene when PLEX manipulation happens.
Not that I think it's a conspiracy but your train of thought here is derailed. If it was a CCP conspiracy (and its not) it would be the same mechanic as putting a price floor in place through subsidy. The guys paying real life money are happier cause they get more isk, but some of the consumers are gonna have to cut back because the price is now above what they were willing to spend. There are plenty of real life examples in the farming industry where the gov't just goes ahead and buys crops to keep control of supply and therefore the price.
It should be clear to everyone that the uptick is due at least in part to the remap annoucement. The manipulation probably wouldn't have stuck if others weren't buying in anticipation of a price increase at expansion time.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:50:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Fan Li
Certainly more people buy PLEX with cash to sell for ISK when plex is 400m versus 300m...
Not certainly at all.
One could argue the exact opposite.
People are more likely to sell PLEX because "they need X ISK for <reason>", not so much because "hey, I want to have more ISK for no particular reason whatsoever, damn, stuff's cheap, lemme' buy more"... so the more ISK they get for a PLEX, the less PLEX would need to be sold.
Sure, SOME people might fall into the second category, but I'd wager most fall in the first.
The total amount of traded ISK would indeed rise, but the total number of PLEX created for sale would go down.
Which one of those is more prevalent is hard to tell.
I guess we could watch PLEX sales volume.
Hmm, it hasn't spiked proportionally to the price, but it has ever so slightly increased... on the other hand, we're reasonably sure that a lot of recent PLEX activity is market speculator activity, so you could *almost* conclude actual volume HAS gone down.
Oh well, we'll know a bit more in a couple more months.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
|
Fan Li
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 23:03:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Fan Li
Certainly more people buy PLEX with cash to sell for ISK when plex is 400m versus 300m...
Not certainly at all.
I agree and should have made it more clear I was implying a speculative view, hence the ellipsis
We can make threads all day, at the end of the day, it's ALL speculation
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 23:07:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Fan Li
Originally by: Ash Donai
Still, economy of scale obviously applies as most all traders are well aware of. It's fairly easy to make X per month with little effort, however, making X+1 is significantly more difficult even if you put in a lot of effort. This works with 400/600mil and to a lesser degree with 4/6bil, but obviously not with 40/60bil.
I'm not sure you understand what "Economies of Scale" are (or maybe I don't)...economies of scale have to do with costs and would be better used to determine the value of things like....the Accounting or Broker Relations skill...no?
I don't think that in-game skills are relevant to this discussion. You are right in that I bunched the original economies of scale and it's opposite together into my preferred term of "economy of scale". The point is that it takes disproportionally less effort to make 6B than it takes to make 60B because whatever it is you do to make 6B doesn't scale well (or at all for that matter) up to 60B over the same time period.
Originally by: Salvage Queen
Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Marshiro
ITS CCP CONSPIRACY TO RAISE PLEX PRICES?
Not that I think it's a conspiracy but your train of thought here is derailed. If it was a CCP conspiracy (and its not) it would be the same mechanic as putting a price floor in place through subsidy.
Just for the record, I didn't say it's a conspiracy, nor do I believe that it is one. I agree that subsidies would indicate a conspiracy.
|
Fan Li
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 23:18:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Ash Donai
I don't think that in-game skills are relevant to this discussion. You are right in that I bunched the original economies of scale and it's opposite together into my preferred term of "economy of scale". The point is that it takes disproportionally less effort to make 6B than it takes to make 60B because whatever it is you do to make 6B doesn't scale well (or at all for that matter) up to 60B over the same time period.
I don't think they do either, I wasn't introducing them as talking points, I was introducing them as examples of what could reflect "economies of scale" in game.
I also agree on the effort bit, but it's a bit less "effort" and more just the plain fact that there are no more or less suitable investments for return...or that person/player can't achieve higher returns with a higher supply of capital due to their own downfalls...it's the same principle as to why we see responsible mutual/hedge funds close up voluntarily in real life.
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 23:21:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Fan Li
Originally by: Ash Donai
Still, economy of scale obviously applies as most all traders are well aware of. It's fairly easy to make X per month with little effort, however, making X+1 is significantly more difficult even if you put in a lot of effort. This works with 400/600mil and to a lesser degree with 4/6bil, but obviously not with 40/60bil.
I'm not sure you understand what "Economies of Scale" are (or maybe I don't)...economies of scale have to do with costs and would be better used to determine the value of things like....the Accounting or Broker Relations skill...no?
I don't think that in-game skills are relevant to this discussion. You are right in that I bunched the original economies of scale and it's opposite together into my preferred term of "economy of scale". The point is that it takes disproportionally less effort to make 6B than it takes to make 60B because whatever it is you do to make 6B doesn't scale well (or at all for that matter) up to 60B over the same time period.
Yep let's take an economics term cos' it sounds cool and gives the impression that you really know your stuff and when someone points out that you don't really know what you're saying, let's invent another meaning for the respective term and keep babbling as if nothing happened. Really, re-read all your recent post, most of the things/expressions you used there make sense only in your head.
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 00:10:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Fan Li
or that person/player can't achieve higher returns with a higher supply of capital due to their own downfalls
The downfall being time. There's only so much time and higher capital would lead to higher returns if the logistics of creating those returns couldn't chew up all the time essentially making higher returns during the same time period impossible. |
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 00:20:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Dositheus
None of you have managed to figure out why I did it, although some have been reasonably close.
Lets see, you are Bobbys alt and you needed PLEX to ebay it away for $$$
Originally by: Dositheus
And... the speculation as to how much I spent in total, as well as the average cost per PLEX has been completely inaccurate thus far.
about 600 PLEXes, 200-220B
|
Fan Li
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 00:29:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Fan Li
or that person/player can't achieve higher returns with a higher supply of capital due to their own downfalls
The downfall being time. There's only so much time and higher capital would lead to higher returns if the logistics of creating those returns couldn't chew up all the time essentially making higher returns during the same time period impossible.
Or inability to find more successful investment vehicles. This could stem from time, but could also stem from the investors lack of experience, as well as other things.
|
Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 05:24:00 -
[107]
lol, if you combine the posts of Fan Li and Akita T you finally arrive at the idea of market equilibrum.
|
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 13:52:00 -
[108]
Plex prices are slowly coming down now. 387M now
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Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 14:19:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Plex prices are slowly coming down now. 387M now
There are some people who try very hard to keep the price up by putting large buy orders. Will be very fun to watch.
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 17:46:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Plex prices are slowly coming down now. 387M now
There are some people who try very hard to keep the price up by putting large buy orders. Will be very fun to watch.
CCP ?
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 18:49:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 15/10/2010 18:53:36
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Plex prices are slowly coming down now. 387M now
There are some people who try very hard to keep the price up by putting large buy orders. Will be very fun to watch.
CCP ?
Yeah, CCP is surely buying and selling PLEXes in Jita. Conspiracy theory much? Besides that, would make no sense for CCP to want higher PLEX prices. All they want is to sell more PLEXes, the in-game ISK price doesn't matter to CCP at all. In the end, if PLEX price would rise too high, CCP would end up losing subscriptions.
But surely, if enough morons/manipulators post 100 times that CCP want the PLEX prices to be higher, there are always plain morons which take their word for it.
|
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:08:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Yeah, CCP is surely buying and selling PLEXes in Jita.
You miss the point. CCP wouldn't have to buy and sell. That would be pointless. They could buy and trash them.
It is very simple. Higher PLEX prices mean it is more attractive for people to buy PLEX from CCP which directly improves their bottom line. It also makes PLEX more competitive with RMT.
Odds are the buyers are just investors hoping to hedge against inflation, but the conspiracy theory has always been a distinct possibility.
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:09:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Plex prices are slowly coming down now. 387M now
There are some people who try very hard to keep the price up by putting large buy orders. Will be very fun to watch.
Funny, I still sell few a day for >400mil
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:11:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 15/10/2010 20:13:09
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Yeah, CCP is surely buying and selling PLEXes in Jita.
You miss the point. CCP wouldn't have to buy and sell. That would be pointless. They could buy and trash them.
It is very simple. Higher PLEX prices mean it is more attractive for people to buy PLEX from CCP which directly improves their bottom line. It also makes PLEX more competitive with RMT.
Odds are the buyers are just investors hoping to hedge against inflation, but the conspiracy theory has always been a distinct possibility.
So why CCP would want PLEX prices to be higher again?
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:18:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
So why CCP would want PLEX prices to be higher again?
Depends on from which way they look at it, considering that they actually have the data they certainly know more about PLEX dynamics than we do.
Case #1: High PLEX prices
More players pay RL cash for PLEX since PLEX yields high ISK which is desirable. CCP makes more RL cash on PLEX sales.
Case #2: Low PLEX prices
Fewer people buy PLEX for RL cash because the ISK yield is not favorable over say RMT or just in general over earning ISK in game. CCP makes less RL cash on PLEX sales.
We have no idea about the integrity of the game. One can only hope that CCP doesn't simply generate ISK to buy PLEX, but they certainly have the capability of doing it. |
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:33:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Higher the PLEX price, some of the people which currently have multiple accounts payed by PLEX will give up some of those accounts. Or, why would CCP want fewer subscribers?
If you renew your subscriptions with PLEX paid for by isk, CCP makes no money from you. They make it from the person who bought the PLEX from them in the first place. Number of subscribers is for bragging rights, but they would easily trade that for higher revenue.
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:41:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Higher the PLEX price, some of the people which currently have multiple accounts payed by PLEX will give up some of those accounts. Or, why would CCP want fewer subscribers?
If you renew your subscriptions with PLEX paid for by isk, CCP makes no money from you. They make it from the person who bought the PLEX from them in the first place. Number of subscribers is for bragging rights, but they would easily trade that for higher revenue.
Right, you continue to make perfect sense. If those subscribers would cancel their accounts, the demand for PLEXes will go down, hence the prices would go down too. CCP doesn't care who payed the subscription as long as it's payed. A subscription is a subscription, period.
Really, you fail to grasp even the simplest economics issues.
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 21:31:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Higher the PLEX price, some of the people which currently have multiple accounts payed by PLEX will give up some of those accounts. Or, why would CCP want fewer subscribers?
If you renew your subscriptions with PLEX paid for by isk, CCP makes no money from you. They make it from the person who bought the PLEX from them in the first place. Number of subscribers is for bragging rights, but they would easily trade that for higher revenue.
Right, you continue to make perfect sense. If those subscribers would cancel their accounts, the demand for PLEXes will go down, hence the prices would go down too. CCP doesn't care who payed the subscription as long as it's payed. A subscription is a subscription, period.
Really, you fail to grasp even the simplest economics issues.
Actuallu you faild to grasp what he meant. He indeed has a point.
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 21:53:00 -
[119]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Actuallu you faild to grasp what he meant. He indeed has a point.
Definitely he has a point. Only that the point doesn't make any sense.
|
Dana Gilmour
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 00:03:00 -
[120]
Under 380M and going down. Vacation for a week now, probably the bubble would have burst when I come back.
|
Lillith Starfire
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 08:58:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48
It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
|
Jita Bloodtear
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 09:31:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48
Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
Except for the whole part about if people trim back their accounts in droves because of high prices, then the demand for PLEX will dry up and CCP will have fewer paying accounts. Let's not pretend that paying via PLEX is not paying...
---------------------------
Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 09:54:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it.
Might it also mean that people need to sell less PLEX to achieve their ISK goal so buy less?
|
Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 09:55:00 -
[124]
Prediction at current rates: Bubble will pop by the end of tomorrow (sunday).
------
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Mrs Retina
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 12:42:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Prediction at current rates: Bubble will pop by the end of tomorrow (sunday).
I doubt prices will start to fall until after the release of Incursion. Even then CCP will probably want the price to stay above 400M.
|
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 15:08:00 -
[126]
hope it will fall soon, want to swith my accounts to plex, but it's far too expensive currently :p
and of course i'm not the only one, at this price few will buy, only investissors / traders will do
----------------
** Wormhole Trading ** |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 19:45:00 -
[127]
379 now
|
Lafaela
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 04:29:00 -
[128]
Down to 365 in Jita with best buy at 360.
Looks like the bubble is burst.
I wait with interest to hear if the manipulator got what he wanted...
|
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 04:39:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Zelot Blueice on 17/10/2010 04:39:56
*raises eyebrow* Indeed.
|
Netheranthem
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 07:46:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48
It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
In my opinion, this is flawed.
If plex aren't worth buying, then people won't buy much of these and the price might raise.
If plexes, on the other side, are expensive, more people will buy them, and less people interesting in giving out ISK for these. which could make the prices fall. CCP doesn't make much more money from an account run with plexes than a normal one (A few $ difference though, from their price). It's in the interest of CCP that Plexes keep being low, so that a maximum of people will want to get their account run by plexes.
Then if you add remap paid with a plex in the equation, it's a win/win for CCP and the players.
|
Ruhige Schmerz
Valhalla Naval Corp
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 08:44:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Netheranthem
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48
It is quite simple.
Plex is created using real $.
High ISK value of plex means more ISK per $.
Higher ISK/$ makes it more attractive for people to buy Game Time Codes/Plex using $ so they can sell it ingame for the ISK.
People who use ISK for plex are making no difference to CCP's $ wallet since that Plex was already paid for by somebody else using $
TLDR; high ISK value of plex makes it more attractive for people to spend real $ on it. Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility people at CCP at least thought about manupulating the ISK value of plex. There is financial incentive to do so.
Of course some people could also be manipulating it with a view to selling them on Ebay...
In my opinion, this is flawed.
If plex aren't worth buying, then people won't buy much of these and the price might raise.
If plexes, on the other side, are expensive, more people will buy them, and less people interesting in giving out ISK for these. which could make the prices fall. CCP doesn't make much more money from an account run with plexes than a normal one (A few $ difference though, from their price). It's in the interest of CCP that Plexes keep being low, so that a maximum of people will want to get their account run by plexes.
Then if you add remap paid with a plex in the equation, it's a win/win for CCP and the players.
This is a simplistic view. Correct in the short term, but in the long term, the more remap type services CCP introduces, that destroy plex without converting it into game time, the better for CCP.
The ISK price of plex will naturally go up, as more demand is created by people who use plex for these services who otherwise have no use for it.
The more important part though is it takes plex off the market, which is good for CCP period. Every plex on the market represents debt exposure to them; they've taken payment for a service (play time) that they cannot, reliably, predict the cash-out date on.
If it ever gets to a point where the number of plex outstanding is a significant fraction of the number of subscribers, they have a problem, because that plex can potentially be cashed out for game time and instantly effect their bottom line.
In a 'worst case' scenario, imagine eve has only 100 subscribers, and there are 300 plex outstanding. All 100 players buy 3 plex and redeem them for game time. CCP revenue (from eve) falls to zero for three months. These days, very few companies can survive that sort of occurrence.
If they're being wise, they recognize the risk, and all the money they collect from plex is going into an interest bearing escrow account that they can only draw off of as the plex is redeemed and removed from the eve economy, but that kind of fiscal responsibility is exceedingly rare.
|
Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 09:34:00 -
[132]
Crashing PLEX market is crashing
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 12:25:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Crashing PLEX market is crashing
It is "crashing" the same way it was crashing 3 weeks ago, just a small price correction
|
Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 13:09:00 -
[134]
Oh no you didn't!
(remember the time)
|
Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 13:48:00 -
[135]
200 plex sale order up at 350mil (yes 200 plex!)
Told you :)
------
|
Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 14:21:00 -
[136]
Right.
So... why did I do all this?
Primary reason: I was bored.
Secondary reason: I've been stockpiling PLEX since they sold at 270 mil/u.
Total summary:
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 14:31:00 -
[137]
Cute, like a water droplet that thinks he's the river.
|
Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 14:36:00 -
[138]
Yet, apparently, a water droplet... can cause a river.
|
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 15:13:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Dositheus
Right.
So... why did I do all this?
Primary reason: I was bored.
Secondary reason: I've been stockpiling PLEX since they sold at 270 mil/u.
Total summary:
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Are those numbers for the latest manipulation or does it cover the previously stockpiled with a loss in the latest operation? Does it include current unsold stock? At what price are you valuing the stock left?
|
Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 15:20:00 -
[140]
Covers both the loss of the manip (where prices were pushed up), which came to be about 4-5 bil loss, and the profit from the old stockpiles.
As for potentially remaining stockpiled PLEX, I'll leave those numbers unsaid :)
|
Rikki Sals
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 18:02:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm... 
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 20:30:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
Please refrain from using logic to discredit a highly skilled market manipulation. |
Dositheus
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 23:34:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
Figuring that you were a good boy and did the calculations, you're probably correct.
Although, about 450 out of those PLEX were purchased a week ago.
|
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 01:07:00 -
[144]
Dositheus, in a weeks time no one will remember your name. You will melt into the rest of the community again. To be honest, no one cares.
|
Kosher Jew
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 03:09:00 -
[145]
This thread was a quality read.
- the Jew
|
Cedo Nulli
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 09:10:00 -
[146]
The song for ending this thread is clearly "The lonely island - space olympics"
|
Tasko Pal
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 10:06:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
You got a better return on investment and effort for that much isk? There's only a few things at that combination of capital and effort that could generate that sort of yield. He just did one of them.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 11:13:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Dositheus, in a weeks time no one will remember your name. You will melt into the rest of the community again. To be honest, no one cares.
He's probably quite happy with that.
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
To be honest, no one cares.
From your whinging in this thread, I guess that one person cared. 
|
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 14:36:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Dositheus
854 PLEX bought and sold.
17.8 billion net profit.
Tons of fun to be had.
Hrm... so it took 270+ billion isk to make 17.8 billion over the course of half a year... hrm...
You got a better return on investment and effort for that much isk? There's only a few things at that combination of capital and effort that could generate that sort of yield. He just did one of them.
By his own words, 450 of them were bought "a week ago" which means that 400 of them were stockpiled around 270, which is 108 billion worth. Had he simply (slowly) sold them off around the 340-350ish mark they were at before he began, he would have made somewhere between 28 and 32 billion isk, minus broker's fees.
So, yes. However, that doesn't account for his given reason number one, namely, "I was bored". Boredom can justify smaller returns for a larger investment if doing so is funny.
|
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 18:01:00 -
[150]
Originally by: corestwo
By his own words, 450 of them were bought "a week ago" which means that 400 of them were stockpiled around 270, which is 108 billion worth. Had he simply (slowly) sold them off around the 340-350ish mark they were at before he began, he would have made somewhere between 28 and 32 billion isk, minus broker's fees.
Not around 270, but from 270 and upwards, and he has said that loss from the latest manipulation is 4-5B, so 21.8B-22.8B profit on 400 plexes, that would be 55.75M aprox. on profit per PLEX, so average cost per PLEX would be around 300M (given that manipulation started with PLEXes selling at around 360M). That's 120B invested. That's an 18.58% return over six months, or a little more than 3%/month, now how good is that depends on how much time was invested, T4U was almost there iirc with insignificant time invested, on the other side this investment has more liquidity. I don't know other operations of this magnitude to compare with.
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 18:29:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I don't know other operations of this magnitude to compare with.[/justify]
This is actually something that CCP could be more forthcoming about in their QEN. Between alliance leaderships who rip off their members re: moon goo, reaction exploits, C6 exploits, etc. a whole lot of ISK is generated for a very small number of players. Yes, 20 trillion a month are created by bounties, that horse is dead.
The point is that like 3% (made up!) of the players hold 90% of the 400 trillion ISK in existence. It would be interesting to know what the ISK distribution actually looks like if CCP cba to actually release those figures, though I assume that it would make the casual player look bad and perhaps deter him/her from playing because (s)he can never catch up (which is true regardless). |
Netheranthem
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:10:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I don't know other operations of this magnitude to compare with.[/justify]
This is actually something that CCP could be more forthcoming about in their QEN. Between alliance leaderships who rip off their members re: moon goo, reaction exploits, C6 exploits, etc. a whole lot of ISK is generated for a very small number of players. Yes, 20 trillion a month are created by bounties, that horse is dead.
The point is that like 3% (made up!) of the players hold 90% of the 400 trillion ISK in existence. It would be interesting to know what the ISK distribution actually looks like if CCP cba to actually release those figures, though I assume that it would make the casual player look bad and perhaps deter him/her from playing because (s)he can never catch up (which is true regardless).
And what does that prove? That 97% of players didn't figure the good way to make ISK or just don't care because they've got a mission ship and don't need much more?
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:53:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Netheranthem
And what does that prove? That 97% of players didn't figure the good way to make ISK or just don't care because they've got a mission ship and don't need much more?
Actually it would prove, as a generalization, that 97% of players work for the remaining 3%.
The players with several hundred billion ISK in their wallets didn't make that ISK, they reallocated it from someone who extracted it from the game mechanics to them. The only people who literally create ISK are those who shoot rats and run missions (well and insurance fraud when that still worked). |
Netheranthem
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:58:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ash Donai
Originally by: Netheranthem
And what does that prove? That 97% of players didn't figure the good way to make ISK or just don't care because they've got a mission ship and don't need much more?
Actually it would prove, as a generalization, that 97% of players work for the remaining 3%.
The players with several hundred billion ISK in their wallets didn't make that ISK, they reallocated it from someone who extracted it from the game mechanics to them. The only people who literally create ISK are those who shoot rats and run missions (well and insurance fraud when that still worked).
Anyone is free to start trading or anything else that would make you billions.
Why aren't there that much traders? It requires time and patience, plus a lot of ISK to invest in it. If there were like 10 times much more traders, this would certainly change your numbers, but for the moment some are too lazy or don't care enough about that to change that. It's not like we're breaking any competition, or are we?
|
Companion Qube
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 20:56:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Ash Donai
The point is that like 3% (made up!) of the players hold 90% of the 400 trillion ISK in existence. It would be interesting to know what the ISK distribution actually looks like if CCP cba to actually release those figures, though I assume that it would make the casual player look bad and perhaps deter him/her from playing because (s)he can never catch up (which is true regardless).
It's a lot harder to estimate this than you'd think - not many people keep 100b isk liquid, most of it's tied up in "stuff"
|
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 21:59:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Companion Qube
Originally by: Ash Donai
The point is that like 3% (made up!) of the players hold 90% of the 400 trillion ISK in existence. It would be interesting to know what the ISK distribution actually looks like if CCP cba to actually release those figures, though I assume that it would make the casual player look bad and perhaps deter him/her from playing because (s)he can never catch up (which is true regardless).
It's a lot harder to estimate this than you'd think - not many people keep 100b isk liquid, most of it's tied up in "stuff"
Assets, multiple characters, multiple accounts, private corporation wallets and hangars, shared corporation wallets and hangars, loans, debt, etc. There are many places that wealth hide, and there is no accurate way to mechanically calculate the distribution across the board (as much as I wish it otherwise). The best you can do is make educated guesses based on anecdotal evidence and the limited data available.
I've seen a lot of gut feeling guesses at this and other wealth numbers from all kinds of players. It's definitely an interesting part of the game =)
______________________________
|
Thrasymachus TheSophist
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 22:40:00 -
[157]
If you can't see why it's in CCP's interest to keep PLEX prices high ....
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 22:41:00 -
[158]
QEN Q2 2010 puts the total amount of ISK in EVE at 400 trillion, that's liquid ISK and not assets the way I read it. Should be trivial for CCP to figure out how that liquid ISK is distributed in terms of how many wallets contain want percentage of the total ISK. Though it's perhaps not really a relevant statistic from the QEN perspective. |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 23:42:00 -
[159]
Welp, prices on the rise again. 373.3 lowest sell and 366.1 highest buy.
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 23:46:00 -
[160]
Its not _again_ it never stopped, just look at 20 day average line, its steady going up
confirming im still selling plexes for 400mil daily (obviously not in trade hubs, but still)
|
Lederstrumpf
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 11:24:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 19/10/2010 11:27:49
I expect prices to stay around 360 for a short while with a chance to go up above 400 ... and I expect some steep price decline after the November release. If there will be no such decline I'd assume CCP is on a downwind spiral in regards to new customer numbers...
|
Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 14:24:00 -
[162]
i just sold mine for 375mil/each
do i win?
|
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 22:05:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 16/10/2010 08:59:48
Accounts maintained using plex bought with ISK make no difference to CCP $$$
Except for the whole part about if people trim back their accounts in droves because of high prices, then the demand for PLEX will dry up and CCP will have fewer paying accounts. Let's not pretend that paying via PLEX is not paying...
Its been gone through other places but I'm of the opinion that accounts kept active by purchasing plex with isk aren't truly paying accounts and really are not the tail that wags the dog (they have some value in a few complicated ways though).
People willing to buy extra plex to sell for isk are the real "customers" who's interest must be met and the true revenue producers. The existence of people playing for free does help those people the people buying ISK with extra plex drink the Koolaid and pay rl$ for imaginary assetsàthey have a marketing value.
If income streams like PI coupled with Bounty increases were increased and playing conventions made using anything more expensive than a BC a ôfailö habità pvp players who donÆt like making ISK would stop buying extra plex.
ThatÆs an issueà every plex gets sold eventually (although they get the 0% interest ôfloatö _ the very atrractive use of $ before costs are actually incurred that Warren Buffet loves in the Blue Chip Stamp, Amex traveler check, Insurance float model) .
The incremental Buyer will surface at some point not from extra interest in the game but because the price in isk gets low enough to use to expand game play options.
Having someone willing to pay double or tripple the monthly subscription cost a much harder thing to achieveàthe big picure really doesnÆt mean much that they get 1 fitted hac or 2 , 200 million isk or 400million.. they need to have drunk the Koolaid the small fluctuations in the number of plex the koolaid drinker will buy based on the value in isk the $/euro brings isnÆt nearly as important to getting them brainswashed into thinking its worth real money to get game assets in the first place.
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 00:29:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
they need to have drunk the Koolaid the small fluctuations in the number of plex the koolaid drinker will buy based on the value in isk the $/euro brings isnÆt nearly as important to getting them brainswashed into thinking its worth real money to get game assets in the first place.
That assumption is wrong, people dont pay real money for game assets, they pay for good time. CC transaction -> plex -> isk -> gank BS -> killmail -> fun. Quick and easy, no need to grind 3 hours in a belt with a hulk to fit that gank BS when you earn plex money in 10 minutes of IRL work.
|
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 00:44:00 -
[165]
10 minutes of RL work? At average maybe a little more then an hour of RL work bro.
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 02:05:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
10 minutes of RL work? At average maybe a little more then an hour of RL work bro.
Not everyone works in mcd/wallmart (yet). People that do dont buy plexes.
|
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 03:14:00 -
[167]
Well, I like to earn ISK.. its a fun part of the game.. why else would I be on the market discussion board? Obviously if the most people keep score on their trading and economic empires is the amount of isk they generate buying isk defeats the purpose of using making isk as a game goal.
You have some point.... SOME people might hold the perspective you have, that it only takes a bit of RL time to make a pile of isk that would take 10 times plus the game time to accumulate...maybe the "drunk the koolaid was over the top"... "People who enjoy the game enought to pay a mutiple of the basic subscription cost" might be more fair.
... but my points still apply ... CCP needs to make those people happy to sell plex.. keeping someone happy enough that uses isk to avoid using real life money to pay for 3 accounts happy enough to use isk to buy a plex for a 4th does little good.
Thats my situation. Yes I drive a $40k car, spend thousands of dollars a year on kids orthidonture, thousands more on their summer and sports camps...I could afford to buy isk or at least pay for my 4 accounts with real money but it would defeat the game goals for me (certainly the additional accounts)
Personally (and I mean personally... I don't expect people to find pleasure the same way I do) for me, earning the isk is fundamental to the game.. the same way that struggling with answers is fundamental to doing a cross word puzzle . Not everyone sees it that way....but for me, even for pvp, the sting in time of losing the isk is what makes pvp valuable. If I looked at a battleship as 3 minutes of real life work, the loss of a battleship isn't a major event like it would be if it took 4 hours
|
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 03:24:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
10 minutes of RL work? At average maybe a little more then an hour of RL work bro.
Not everyone works in mcd/wallmart (yet). People that do dont buy plexes.
Presumably you enjoy participating in the eve economy if you're on the Market Discussion forum ?
Unless you're a noob at trading (or don't actually enjoy it but hang out on the market boards anyway?) I'd think after 6 months you'd have 10s of billions of isk.. enough to pay for years of subscription time for mutiple accounts while still having a large pool of working capital ?
How can you make earning isk in the economy as a game goal and buy your way to your goal in the game and still have it be a game to you? Its loke looking at the answers to a crossward puzzle because the hour it would take you to figure it out isn't owrth your rl earning time?
|
Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 05:26:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 20/10/2010 05:32:13
well, the opposite to your view, Calypso, would be that making ISK is just a (boring) means to be able to enjoy the "really" fun parts of EVE (usually that is pvp).
Viewing ISK making as an end in itself rather than a means is often referred to as the defining aspect of carebears.
I usually pay for one or both of my accounts with RL money instead of ISK because minus 500-700m ISK/month would gimp my disposable income enough that I would have to think about how to make ISK in order to enjoy those parts of the game that are fun to me (and while thinking about the market is fun to me, playing the market in a somewhat serious fashion feels way too much like work to be actually enjoyable; I recently had running a 0.0 trading venture for a few weeks, but that was mainly about being able to provide the people I work with with a nice selection of T2 items in station while merely breaking even myself).
Having to think "Do I really want to join the corp fleet running anomalies that I could easily solo - after all I will only make about 2m/20min and how is that going to cover my subscription fees?" would (for me) defeat part of the purpose/fun of the game.
For me EVE is to a big part about having fun in a group of like-minded people not about grinding my way to the top of the income ladder.
edit: just posting this to emphasize that Calypso's argument/view relies on making ISK being the game's goal and that there are other equally plausible views common among players.
|
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.20 05:49:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 20/10/2010 05:28:49
well, the opposite to your view, Calypso, would be that making ISK is just a (boring) means to be able to enjoy the "really" fun parts of EVE (usually that is pvp).
Viewing ISK making as an end in itself rather than a means is often referred to as the defining aspect of carebears.
I usually pay for one or both of my accounts with RL money instead of ISK because minus 500-700m ISK/month would gimp my disposable income enough that I would have to think about how to make ISK in order to enjoy those parts of the game that are fun to me (and while thinking about the market is fun to me, playing the market in a somewhat serious feels way too much like work to be actually enjoyable).
Having to think "Do I really want to join the corp fleet running anomalies that I could easily solo - after all I will only make about 2m/20min and how is that going to cover my subscription fees?" would (for me) defeat part of the purpose/fun of the game.
For me EVE is to a big part about having fun in a group of like-minded people not about grinding my way to the top of the income ladder.
edit: just posting this to emphasize that Calypso's argument/view relies on making ISK being the game's goal and that there are other equally plausible views common among players.
I don't entirely disagree...
I say entirely because I do enjoy pvping, and I hat ratting. I only rat to boost my security status back up from the nights i roam in low sec. I'm no mega pvper... my pvp character has 300 kills on battle-clinic in the last year and maybe 40 losses...
again im no pvp guru...very few solo kills...but I have done a fair bit of solo tackles ...even a lgion in a taranis... long enough for the "blob" (roaming gang) to catch up.
But plenty of my pvp friends that I spend my evenings with do buy plex and sell them for ships.
AND that was my point...
...they're the ones that are generating CCP revenue.
tha fact taht I make 5 to 10 billion a month trading.. something I enjoy...and can keep extra accounts active doing very slow trading that ties up capital but makes enough to pay for another account with little extra time...
my buying that plex for isk from a friend(or indirectly from them via them on the market) does ccp little good.
I'd use more accounts if they droped to 100 million isk a month.. maybe dozens...the isk wouldbe a pittance.... I could leave a few low sp alts selling things at outlandish prices in out of thew way places and still get enough reveune to pay for the account checking in once a month while building a carrier pilot of every flavor with the stream of sps...at 400million isk a month I need to think a little harder...
but either way it does no good to ccp.
My point isn't a judgement of the other players but saying that the people who are willing to pay more real money a month to play the game are the ones that CCP actually needs for revnue and needs to keep happy....those of uss with buying the extra accounts as a lark to soack up a bit of extra isk flow and a lucury of having a scout/cyno alt in every region for our pvp arm don't make them money when we buy that plex with isk and use it up....it may eliminate a layer of uncertainty down the line for us to use the right to pre-paid play now rather than later...
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.20 07:22:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
10 minutes of RL work? At average maybe a little more then an hour of RL work bro.
Not everyone works in mcd/wallmart (yet). People that do dont buy plexes.
Presumably you enjoy participating in the eve economy if you're on the Market Discussion forum ?
Unless you're a noob at trading (or don't actually enjoy it but hang out on the market boards anyway?) I'd think after 6 months you'd have 10s of billions of isk.. enough to pay for years of subscription time for mutiple accounts while still having a large pool of working capital ?
How can you make earning isk in the economy as a game goal and buy your way to your goal in the game and still have it be a game to you? Its loke looking at the answers to a crossward puzzle because the hour it would take you to figure it out isn't owrth your rl earning time?
sooooo when did we switch subjects to "traders and the ways they pay for the game"? Most EVE players pew for fun, isk is just a nuisance to them. All they want is to fit a shiny pew machine and blob someone. They dont care about a module being 1mil cheaper 3 jumps away, or PLEX being 10mil cheaper one region over. Most of them still has market set to sort on jump distance. Pew is fun, isk is work.
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
those of uss with buying the extra accounts as a lark to soack up a bit of extra isk flow and a lucury of having a scout/cyno alt in every region for our pvp arm don't make them money when we buy that plex with isk and use it up....it may eliminate a layer of uncertainty down the line for us to use the right to pre-paid play now rather than later...
Facepalm. How are we not making money to CCP? Alternative would be
-CCP directly selling ISK and directly competing with gold farms.
-about 40K less active subscribers
PLEX not only "solves" farming problem (farmers actually create demand and means for PLEX), but fills EVE universe with players that otherwise would not be there. I dont know if there is another MMO that combines subscription model with free to play option.
Sadly QEN doesnt quote direct number of PLEX activations per month, but graphs they publish suggest between 40K and 70K. What is amazing about the graph tho is the conclusion that PLEX PED is almost 0 (inelastic), 33% price hike did nothing to the demand. Simply put PLEX is the AIR 40K players breathe, they cant live without it and will pay any price marked demands.
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.20 07:29:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 20/10/2010 07:30:55
Originally by: Tusen Takk
i just sold mine for 375mil/each
do i win?
I bought one for 230m yesterday, so I win 
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Sadly QEN doesnt quote direct number of PLEX activations per month, but graphs they publish suggest between 40K and 70K. What is amazing about the graph tho is the conclusion that PLEX PED is almost 0 (inelastic), 33% price hike did nothing to the demand. Simply put PLEX is the AIR 40K players breathe, they cant live without it and will pay any price marked demands.
Yep, it would be nice to see, the distribution of the Plexes, who many get in the game, how many of them will be activated, and how many of the current trades are just for "profit", buy low, sell high, etc. I hope the next QEN will en-light this.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.20 15:12:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Ash Donai
QEN Q2 2010 puts the total amount of ISK in EVE at 400 trillion, that's liquid ISK and not assets the way I read it. Should be trivial for CCP to figure out how that liquid ISK is distributed in terms of how many wallets contain want percentage of the total ISK. Though it's perhaps not really a relevant statistic from the QEN perspective.
It should be easy for them to figure out but the question is more complicated and would require them to use nic ids and stuff to combine the differerent accounts a player uses into one aggregate account (and of course combine the 3 characters on each account) . Tougher still is the isk in corporate wallets.
I have 11 traders and 1 primarily pvp player. The traders are in 3 different coprorations with only my characters as members... I tend to move isk above a few hundred isk per character into the corporate wallets so the other characters can get to the isk and also even if its a one character corp, so there is some control on how much you can lose on a key stroke error mistake.
And of course, if I have more than 10% of my trading assets in ISK, i'm being lazy by not actively employing it on the market.(I keep thinking i'll reach a limit, then I find other expensive things to sell in bulk...try day trading things like freghters and you'll see)
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Ash Donai
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Posted - 2010.10.20 22:00:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
But plenty of my pvp friends that I spend my evenings with do buy plex and sell them for ships.
AND that was my point...
...they're the ones that are generating CCP revenue.
[...]
my buying that plex for isk from a friend(or indirectly from them via them on the market) does ccp little good.
Every time you buy a PLEX someone paid CCP $15 for it (roughly). That should really be obvious. Yes, your friend paid it, but PLEX don't exist separate from subscriptions since that's the only thing they can be used for. Your friend paid cash for his subscription and for your's if you buy the PLEX. You buying a PLEX for ISK made $15 for CCP, so yeah, it does CCP good. |
Brutolina
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Posted - 2010.10.21 00:00:00 -
[175]
Without plex-buyers there wouldn't have been any sellers.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.21 06:09:00 -
[176]
My point was that CCP could have sold isk directly and created an entirely different isk sink,...the isk didn't need to come from players... free game time didn't need to go to players.........
However, looking at the new numbers we have on daily isk faucets and taking the time to go back over the 2009 4q QEN ...
... I was going to use the numbers to prove you wrong but, I instead realized that my impressions were far off from reality.
I had the feeling that volume of the $>plex>isk transactions was very small relative to the some of daily isk faucets. I suppose I should have been able to tell that from looking at the information in the referenced report... but I was keeyed in on the totalt volume of isk traded relative to the market transactions and probably didn't think clearly enough that something in the same of maagnitude of total daily plex sales would be a good number for the amount of $ being turned to isk. The amount of that volume attibutable to specualtion can't be much more than a third of it, and while I do bleive that the Jita market had way more than 1/2 of the trade of the specialty item that is isk... there are also many private transactions we don't see.
So... when we were given a daily number showing something like 1.3 ish daily isk faucets and what I might guess to be about 500 to 600 billion daily in isk $>plex>isk converstions...
well
I stand corrected. To create a new sink on that order would be immense. To sell anything close to that amount of isk withou a new sink would require a drastic move like cutting rat bounties more than in half . That of course would completely ruin peoplse ablilty to pay for ships ratting/missioning and the balance of the isk from real $ to isk from low brow isk earning technicques of killing npcs.. just would be too warped...turn people off from the game etc.
So yeah...
A mechanism to encourage transfer of isk already in the game from richh in isk player to those willing to pay more rl money to avoid isk earning time in the game was needed. I have never objected to the idea that the draining of excess isk from those with piles of isk is a usueful counterpart to supplying isk for $.
So TLDR if the $>PLex>is total volume were only 5 to 10% of the abount of isk dropped into the economy by bounties and mission rewards my origial impression wouldn have been right...the isk may as well have been minted and sold direct by CCP... a tweeking lower of bounties to keep price stablity would have been hardly nnoticeable.
However, given that the the $>plex >isk volume is more than half the bountay and reward faucet printing isk would be catosrophic on game balance.
I was wrong. Technically CCP doesn't really need players to be turning over the isk to isk buyers...other sinks might be contrived...yet it is such a hugely efficient way of doing so and activation of accounts probably very very weighted toward people doing so for a 2nd 3rd and 4th acount has less actually variable costs to ccp than a one person 15$ a months subscription. .. it also tends to rpomote a more widely served industrial trade economy with industrialsts and fiancaicers with isk coming out their ears being able to expand their reach into backwaters.... the isk gets drained in a fare more organic way than some heavy handed sink...its almost like a gross royalty on the entire economic commununity...(that would take a hell of a lot of words to explain)
So.. yes....CCP needs to drain isk that will be resold from the game and doing so via the free accoutn time method has those buying the free game time with isk providing all sorts of other benefits to the game.
you're right
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:37:00 -
[177]
Getting back closer to where the thread was sort of "derailed" . The thread wasn't actually derailed, but the factors in price and demand were being contested.
I still think that the volume of Plex is set by a generally inelastic demand by Sellers motivated primarily by their level of interest in the game and their desires to pay real $ to do so. (generally.. there a few marginal buyers whoÆll opt to buy because they get more isk per $ with higher prices offset somewhat by being able to meet their ship purchase desires selling less plex)
I believe that the ISK PRICE of Plex is set mostly by buyers, most specifically the incremental buyer . If I had to guess, well over 50% of plex conversions to game time bought with ISK are for 2nd , 3rd and 4th accounts.
IÆd guess that of all the activations 70% or so have very littlel price elasticity in demand. Kids that donÆt have a job might earn isk to play regardless of the price. People with hundreds of billions and efficient operations needing a dozen characters wouldnÆt think twice if plex were 200 million or 550 million.
But, the kids may make a decision whether to keep a second account open based on the hours it would take them. Players making cusp risk/reward gambits on maybe developing a character for sale or for some thin margin industrial scheme , or dependent on data-core mining àthose would be likely to drop out of the bidding..
The overwhelming common incremental buyer is
à.. bidding for a fairly finite supply based more on desire to fund ships lost with $
àà dropping out from bidding at the point where the PLEX price no longer justifyÆs the isk making advantage that account would provide.
Originally by: Brutolina
Without plex-buyers there wouldn't have been any sellers.
True, but
My position was that CCP would have been able to sell newly created ISK directly to player and that the willingness to pay more real $ to play the game was where the profit for CCP lay
(and yes I agree with y'all... they pay double triple or more to parts of the game they don't like and don't find an efficient use of their time relative to buying the isk with real $ à and that makes sense to meà. the veiled insult in my ôdrinking the koolaidö line ((which can also mean enthusiastic support of something though)) should have een left out. )
OK û though - as mentioned above, the obstacle CCP faces in keeping a balanced game economy while meeting the demand of $>is is far far larger than I thought.:
Specifically the CCP really does need to drain isk from the game in proportion to what it sell. The amount of that sink would be far greater than any of the other game sinks save alone the ISK that leaves active circulation through player retirement. It would be very difficult to dream up a sink that would come mainly from those with large trade/industrial bases in a way that those players found profitable àdraining elsewhere would excaserbate the problem they already faced of pvp being too expensive to players not focused on isk. Draining isk also reduces the temptation for the sell side of the RMT by real players. By giving players extra economic capacity via extra characters, the drain tends to expand the depth of markets rather than stymie it as a tax. I never had an issue with CCP allowing second and third accounts to come at a discount or be at least partially funded via is.
I still wouldnÆt call the purchase with ISK and subsequent activation as a profit Center for CCPà it is profitable more in how it enhances the game play by allowing for balanced and even improved game dynamics that would be hard to match through different game design features that might actually really cost them $ in developer time . The forgone income is far less than the sum of the free-time used as a large number of the mutiple accounts and some of the primary accounts would have never been paid for in real $ and the variable costs in server time and customer service hours are probably less for a second account than a first account.
So yes, ISK>PLEX purchasers ad value to CCP, but I donÆt think itÆs the direct 1 to 1 relation people are suggesting.
Creating/retaining customers that are willing to pay more $ to play is a bigger priority and harder to achieve than finding a way to draw the isk from the game to meet that demand in a balanced way.
The ISK price though, is most largely determined by how much the incremental PLEX with isk buyer is willing to pay.
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Cash Equivalent
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Posted - 2010.10.22 16:06:00 -
[178]
The annoying, empire-wide, false floor at 333m is annoying.
Plex should expire after 67-90 days, in 30 day cycles, with a 1 week greyout period where no new plex can be created prior to the global expiration date.
Then we'd have a futures market.
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.22 17:11:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Cash Equivalent
The annoying, empire-wide, false floor at 333m is annoying.
Plex should expire automatically be added to account after 67-90 days, in 30 day cycles, with a 1 week greyout period where no new plex can be created prior to the global expiration date.
Then we'd have a futures market.
Fixed!
_
Mining Crystal BPOs
Angel Ships |
Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.22 17:43:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Cash Equivalent
The annoying, empire-wide, false floor at 333m is annoying.
How is that floor 'false' if I may ask? 
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Cash Equivalent
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Posted - 2010.10.22 19:00:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Cash Equivalent on 22/10/2010 19:01:31
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
How is that floor 'false' if I may ask?
I'm glad you did!
It's false because it's being maintained by an individual or consortium following a common plan to keep prices up as long as possible. 1 guy with 6 accounts, Margin Trading V, and deep pockets could be responsible for this whole mess. Prices aren't staying this high due to natural market forces. They aren't going to be going any higher because there are inherent limits to this kind of strategy. Things are starting to tip so we'll see what happens.
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Razor Tuna
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Posted - 2010.10.22 19:55:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Razor Tuna on 22/10/2010 19:57:43
This ISK manipulation began occuring around the time or just after the Bad Bobby scam. If I remember correctly Plex was going for ~300m ISK before that. He's one of the only people I can think of who have the ISK and motive to do it that are on the top of my head.
I know it sounds trite "ooo bab bobby!" and if anyone knows of anyone else who has the means and motive to do it that is a possibility as well. But this is surely not the work of a group of players because the opportunity to screw everyone else would be way to high.
So who else has close to a trillion ISK to do suck a thing? Perhaps the EBANK scammers? It could only be a a couple of suspects.
Koodos to you if you're reading this and your doing it with unfounded billions just because you can and I am nowhere near your identity because you are unknown.
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Ash Donai
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Posted - 2010.10.22 22:02:00 -
[183]
... or it could be that there are just now a whole lot of fewer sellers and a lot more buyers.
What you get for one PLEX hasn't changed ever, it's 30 days of game time, yet the price went up and up over the years. Why didn't it stay at the original ~110mil? Because people want more ISK for the $15 the spent. Gradually sellers raise the price because they can as buyers are willing to pay that price. Why are PLEXes selling for 400 now? Because there are plenty of people who are willing to pay that and more since there's nothing else to spend ISK on anyway. Not that hard really. |
Razor Tuna
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Posted - 2010.10.23 00:07:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Ash Donai
... or it could be that there are just now a whole lot of fewer sellers and a lot more buyers.
What you get for one PLEX hasn't changed ever, it's 30 days of game time, yet the price went up and up over the years. Why didn't it stay at the original ~110mil? Because people want more ISK for the $15 the spent. Gradually sellers raise the price because they can as buyers are willing to pay that price. Why are PLEXes selling for 400 now? Because there are plenty of people who are willing to pay that and more since there's nothing else to spend ISK on anyway. Not that hard really.
Did you miss this thread.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.10.23 00:13:00 -
[185]
I can think of at least a dozen or so players who have a couple-few hundred Bil they could throw at something like this because they either felt like it or thought it was a good idea, and this isn't including nameless alts that deal in such volumes in public places (such as with T2 BPO trading, etc). EVE is not that small.
______________________________
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.23 02:58:00 -
[186]
argh its over :(. Was fun while it lasted.
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.10.23 06:31:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
I can think of at least a dozen or so players who have a couple-few hundred Bil they could throw at something like this because they either felt like it or thought it was a good idea, and this isn't including nameless alts that deal in such volumes in public places (such as with T2 BPO trading, etc). EVE is not that small.
I blame F90OEX and his untold trillions.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.10.23 13:31:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
argh its over :(. Was fun while it lasted.
Yeah and while ya'll weren't watching large sections of PI started doing fun things.
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Dositheus
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Posted - 2010.10.23 18:49:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
argh its over :(. Was fun while it lasted.
Or... is it?
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2010.10.25 07:01:00 -
[190]
Maybe it one of the ISK farmers / scammers cashing out.
You need to be quick about it before CCP locks your account... therefore you need to sell them FAST to ppl who you previously gathered / made arrangements with, then big action to buy off enough PLEX to cover the arrangement...
Seems viable option. And 30% - 50% loss is nothing when ISK came from nowhere and $$ are deposited to your RL account, dont you think?
Just my 2 cents - this is purely a speculation of possible reason to this PLEX situation.
I.
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Inbrainsane
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Posted - 2010.10.25 11:43:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Dositheus
...
It is.
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.10.28 02:59:00 -
[192]
be interesting to see how far plex fall now that the plex for remap thing appears to be in doubt.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.10.28 04:07:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
be interesting to see how far plex fall now that the plex for remap thing appears to be in doubt.
Source?
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.28 06:39:00 -
[194]
actually looks like plex just rebound
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.28 11:30:00 -
[195]
Originally by: corestwo
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
be interesting to see how far plex fall now that the plex for remap thing appears to be in doubt.
Source?
Yes, sauce?
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Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2010.10.28 21:12:00 -
[196]
Anonymous delivers.
http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_11-12_10_2010.pdf
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Tasko Pal
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.29 01:49:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Lanais Suleia
Anonymous delivers.
http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_11-12_10_2010.pdf
It starts on page 4. Basically the CSM raised several concerns about the use of PLEX instead of isk for these things. For example, PLEX for non-vanity items could grant advantage to alliances with "sugar daddies", things that can only be bought with PLEX could result in devaluation/inflation of isk, and PLEX for remaps is a crude case of cash for skill points.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.29 06:57:00 -
[198]
The only thing that keeps PLEX price from crashing to previous values are the very large buy orders that continues to appear. However, they can only buy so much PLEXes at an artificially inflated price. In the end market will have its way and most of them will end up with hundreds of PLEXes bought at prices way bigger than the price PLEX will stabilize to.
It's fun to watch these pointless efforts though.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.29 09:44:00 -
[199]
yes, im sure it has nothing to do with only 20 something plexes in Citadel on sell orders for example.
Lets face it - people buy plexes and will buy them no matter the price, and it looks like price is rising again.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.29 10:47:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 29/10/2010 10:51:54
Originally by: Rasz Lin
yes, im sure it has nothing to do with only 20 something plexes in Citadel on sell orders for example.
Lets face it - people buy plexes and will buy them no matter the price, and it looks like price is rising again.
Read again what you just wrote. The stupidity of it might amaze even yourself.
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Spruillo
Gallente
Spruillo Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.30 22:24:00 -
[201]
I just dumped my stock should have done it a week ago
a few traders have 15 more plex prob wont get what they bought for
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.31 05:06:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 31/10/2010 05:09:51
Originally by: Spruillo
I just dumped my stock should have done it a week ago
a few traders have 15 more plex prob wont get what they bought for
Don't worry, there are many like you. Will be fun to watch the price when all those thousands of stashed PLEXes will be out for sale.
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:58:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Edited by: Dana Gilmour on 31/10/2010 05:09:51
Originally by: Spruillo
I just dumped my stock should have done it a week ago
a few traders have 15 more plex prob wont get what they bought for
Don't worry, there are many like you. Will be fun to watch the price when all those thousands of stashed PLEXes will be out for sale.
probably won't be a big crash until the expansion comes out and you can't remap for plex after all.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.31 19:22:00 -
[204]
I doubt CCP will roll back their plans for the remap though.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.10.31 20:42:00 -
[205]
Doesn't matter much. The rise in price due to the remap announcement happened already, from now on prices will only go down no matter if PLEX for remap will be introduced or not. And I have a hunch that even if it will be, they'll limit it to 1-2 plex a year so the effect on market won't be significant anyways.
But would be indeed fun to not happen at all.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.11.01 08:11:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Doesn't matter much. The rise in price due to the remap announcement happened already, from now on prices will only go down no matter if PLEX for remap will be introduced or not. And I have a hunch that even if it will be, they'll limit it to 1-2 plex a year so the effect on market won't be significant anyways.
But would be indeed fun to not happen at all.
I like how you made this alt only to try and convince everyone that plex is tanking :) What is your problem anyway? Too poor to plex ur accounts? Too hard to farm isk for plexes sold on ebay?
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.11.01 10:39:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Doesn't matter much. The rise in price due to the remap announcement happened already, from now on prices will only go down no matter if PLEX for remap will be introduced or not. And I have a hunch that even if it will be, they'll limit it to 1-2 plex a year so the effect on market won't be significant anyways.
But would be indeed fun to not happen at all.
I like how you made this alt only to try and convince everyone that plex is tanking :) What is your problem anyway? Too poor to plex ur accounts? Too hard to farm isk for plexes sold on ebay?
I like how you try and convinge others that PLEX can only rise to high heaven and above. What's your problem anyway? Bought too many PLEXex at 380M? Too stupid to produce any decent amount of ISK?
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.01 13:43:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Dana Gilmour
Doesn't matter much. The rise in price due to the remap announcement happened already, from now on prices will only go down no matter if PLEX for remap will be introduced or not. And I have a hunch that even if it will be, they'll limit it to 1-2 plex a year so the effect on market won't be significant anyways.
But would be indeed fun to not happen at all.
I like how you made this alt only to try and convince everyone that plex is tanking :) What is your problem anyway? Too poor to plex ur accounts? Too hard to farm isk for plexes sold on ebay?
What is your definition of 'tanking' I wonder? Since PLEX prices have indeed gone down quite fast after the manipulation attempt.
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Dana Gilmour
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Posted - 2010.11.01 14:08:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Rasz Lin
I like how you made this alt only to try and convince everyone that plex is tanking :) What is your problem anyway? Too poor to plex ur accounts? Too hard to farm isk for plexes sold on ebay?
What is your definition of 'tanking' I wonder? Since PLEX prices have indeed gone down quite fast after the manipulation attempt.
But it's a known fact that after each manipulation the "normal" price is the price for that item changes to the highest recorded price when the manipulation was peaking. Especially if you have an interest in wanting to fool people that the price will rise to the skies and never come down. Or if you have no brain. One or the other.
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Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.07 08:47:00 -
[210]
Plexs just jumped up to 380.
POS Management Proposal |
Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.11.07 13:45:00 -
[211]
Yes, I wonder why?
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Inbrainsane
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:08:00 -
[212]
Folks, stop being stupid. There is an unlimited supply of PLEX. The guy who tried the big manip two weeks ago is still sitting on stockpiled PLEX worth over 100B isk. He can only sell them if some lemmings rush in buying them. And this is what happens now. Do not wonder when the price is down to the 360-370 area soon.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2010.11.08 13:55:00 -
[213]
He's going to make a fortune because CCP has shown their intent to move further and further toward micro-transactions with PLEX as a base. Don't assume his intent is to sell his 800+ plex stockpile as fast as possible.
Lemmings and traders are such a small percent of the plex market we just don't even matter. Even some guy with almost 1k plex will only make a week or two sized dent.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.08 15:16:00 -
[214]
so its just one guy ??
rofl
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Inbrainsane
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Posted - 2010.11.08 16:45:00 -
[215]
The one guy is just one example. PLEX influx is unlimited and changing $$$ to plex becomes increasingly attractive with rising PLEX prices. Dont get crazy.
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Illectroculus Defined
Chooch Inc.
Twilight Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.08 20:08:00 -
[216]
There was a bit of a bubble in Jita with prices averaging about 384million until about 20 minutes ago, now prices are plummeting.
Still I made my money.
Vote Illectro for CSM5! Supporting the New Generation of Eve Players |
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.09 21:54:00 -
[217]
I believe the price will increase, as the Fanfest tickets can be bought with 6 PLEX / ticket. Let's say there will be 1000 people, 60% will buy it with plex, that will be 3600 plexes.
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Shields are like pants, they're supposed to come off. Armor is like the condom once its gone ur ****ed |
Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.09 23:05:00 -
[218]
Hampster, perhaps you can elaborate and cite some evidence that CCP will be charging PLEXs as an alternative.
POS Management Proposal |
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.09 23:20:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Zelot Blueice
Hampster, perhaps you can elaborate and cite some evidence that CCP will be charging PLEXs as an alternative.
There you go: http://fanfest.eveonline.com/en/info/plex
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Shields are like pants, they're supposed to come off. Armor is like the condom once its gone ur ****ed |
Julienne Poirier
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.10 02:34:00 -
[220]
6 plex = 1 ticket
1 plex = 17.495 USD
1 Ticket = 104.97 USD
i don't know if fan fest ticket prices have been announced.
but can i make the assumption that if prices are below 104.97 USD than plex won't be the payment of choice since players would get more value using them for game time?
i didn't even want to think about EUR USD conversions is this, my head hurts enough.
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Dead spaceman
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Posted - 2010.11.10 05:53:00 -
[221]
NeoNoxie is back at it...dumping PLEX as we speak. Only problem is, he's using a software program to read and undercut prices. That certainly has to be against the rules...right? He's got about 18 sell orders up in an attempt to move about 50 PLEX. If you are under his price by -.01 isk, wait 1 minute and watch the 18 sell orders (all at the same exact price) automatically reset. hhhhmmmmmmm. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.11.10 06:04:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Julienne Poirier
Edited by: Julienne Poirier on 10/11/2010 03:15:11
6 PLEX = 1 ticket
1 PLEX = 17.495 USD
1 Ticket = 104.97 USD
I don't know if fan fest ticket prices have been announced, but can I make the assumption that if prices are below 104.97 USD than PLEX won't be the payment of choice since players would get more value using them for game time?
If CCP sets the ticket price close to last years price of 75 USD then they essentially destroy 26 days of owed game time off their books per ticket.
I didn't even want to think about EUR USD conversions in this, my head hurts enough.
edit:
Another thought someone buys 800 plexes off the market turning them into tickets and selling them on ebay. Are thoes buyers banned from fan fest at the door?
800/6*75=10,000
sorry if this is off topic or been brought up before.
The flaw in your assumption is that people taking advantage of the conversion care that they're not getting an "exact" bang for their buck. It's $100 (or however much) less that they have to spend IRL (or looking at it another way, $100 more that they can spend on booze).
Originally by: Dead spaceman
NeoNoxie is back at it...dumping PLEX as we speak. Only problem is, he's using a software program to read and undercut prices. That certainly has to be against the rules...right? He's got about 18 sell orders up in an attempt to move about 50 PLEX. If you are under his price by -.01 isk, wait 1 minute and watch the 18 sell orders (all at the same exact price) automatically reset. hhhhmmmmmmm.
If you think he's botting, great, report him, whatever.
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.10 07:31:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 10/11/2010 07:32:54
Originally by: Julienne Poirier
Edited by: Julienne Poirier on 10/11/2010 03:15:11
I don't know if fan fest ticket prices have been announced, but can I make the assumption that if prices are below 104.97 USD than PLEX won't be the payment of choice since players would get more value using them for game time?
They are:
Quote:
Each Fanfest tickets cost 99 USD with Sisters of EVE (spouse) tickets costing 200 USD.
Look through the fanfest FAQ page.
And actually players who have lot's of ISK, will probably use PLEX for the ticket. Why spend real money on it?
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Shields are like pants, they're supposed to come off. Armor is like the condom once its gone ur ****ed |
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