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Another mission nerf incoming

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Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:40:00 - [1] From the latest Devblog: Quote: Tech II ammo is getting some love in the coming expansion. We are focusing on the short range versions of the Tech II ammo such as Gleam, Conflagration, Hail, Quake, Void and Javelin. We are removing various negative effects from each, focusing on the drawbacks which penalize your ship itself and also stack per hardpoint loaded with the ammo. This means the ammo will be a good alternative to the faction ammo and, without such focused and sometimes crippling drawbacks, will be much more useful. Faction ammo is the major trading good that is used to convert high volumes of loyalty points (LP) into ISK. If T2 ammo becomes a substitute for that, there will be less demand for faction ammo. The price of faction ammo will go down (to a level close to the t2 ammo price). The LP will therefor be worth less, means the missionrunners will get a hit in their income again. Especially the level 5 missionrunners, who get LP as their major reward. Did CCP do this on purpose ? Do they hate missionrunners ? Or will they compensate that by adding new stuff to the LP stores ?
Herrring Amarr BLAHss	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:44:00 - [2] lol, Its sometimes astonishing how people manage to find things to whine at.
Tidanis Did I just do that Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:45:00 - [3] This just in: CCP hates you. -------------------------------------------- Currently Training: Avoiding Homework, Level 4
Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Herp Converting LP to T2 Ammo gives an horrific isk/LP. Hell, you're better off buying certain 3% hardwirings for 10kLP + 10mill and flooding Jita buy orders with them.
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:45:00 - [5] Mission runners are a bane to Eve. It is good that CCP is no longer catering to them. Level 4 missions should be in lowsec, level 5s in NPC 0.0. This change is good, dump your LP now. Can I have your stuff? ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Apostrophe Ampersand Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:48:00 - [6] Another. Crying. Carebear. Seriously, you mission runners just love to whine about every damn thing. Wah wah wah, that guy took my salvage. Wah wah wah, I can't **** real players with my overpriced ammo.
Paknac Queltel Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba From the latest Devblog: Quote: Tech II ammo is getting some love in the coming expansion. We are focusing on the short range versions of the Tech II ammo such as Gleam, Conflagration, Hail, Quake, Void and Javelin. We are removing various negative effects from each, focusing on the drawbacks which penalize your ship itself and also stack per hardpoint loaded with the ammo. This means the ammo will be a good alternative to the faction ammo and, without such focused and sometimes crippling drawbacks, will be much more useful. Faction ammo is the major trading good that is used to convert high volumes of loyalty points (LP) into ISK. If T2 ammo becomes a substitute for that, there will be less demand for faction ammo. The price of faction ammo will go down (to a level close to the t2 ammo price). The LP will therefor be worth less, means the missionrunners will get a hit in their income again. Especially the level 5 missionrunners, who get LP as their major reward. Did CCP do this on purpose ? Do they hate missionrunners ? Or will they compensate that by adding new stuff to the LP stores ? Who knows what will happen? t2 ammo might become more expensive (unlikely), faction ammo might become cheaper (pleasepleaseplease). To use t2 ammo though, you have to train up to the t2 weapons. Until you're there, faction is the only way to push that last bit of performance out. Also, there's no need to suspect a mission nerf in everything. The devs are not out to get you. - Paknac Queltel
Celestine Santora	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:55:00 - [8] I wish L4s would ACTUALLY be nerfed instead of this fake "nerf".
Herrring Amarr BLAHss	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:59:00 - [9] sleeper ai for l4 missions plz
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar Converting LP to T2 Ammo gives an horrific isk/LP. Hell, you're better off buying certain 3% hardwirings for 10kLP + 10mill and flooding Jita buy orders with them. Learn how the market works. There are enough 3% hardwires offers already, it takes long to sell them (the demand isn't as high as for faction ammo), so many people cash in their LPs with ammo instead. Go to Jita, check the trading volumes of ammo and compare it to implants. Ofc. more people will try to cash in with implants, if ammo prices become too low. Guess what will happen to implant prices, if those who sell high volumes of LPs drop tons of additional implants on the sell orders ? @guy above: Eve is a complex game with a complex market system and economy. You change one thing, and this change can have an impact on completely other aspects of the game. And no, I'm not affected by this myself as I don't do empire missions.
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Apostrophe Ampersand Another. Crying. Carebear. As opposed to crying Gankbears. Crying Pvpers Crying Industrials Crying Scammers And so on and so on. Everyone whines, as evidenced by the posts in this thread. I think this change is great. I can't wait to throw my ISK at the T2 manufacturers. In fact, I'll stock up now pending the change and before the prices get really silly.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Joe SMASH Mission runners are a bane to Eve. It is good that CCP is no longer catering to them. Level 4 missions should be in lowsec, level 5s in NPC 0.0. This change is good, dump your LP now. Can I have your stuff? You're in for a rude awakening if you're stupid enough to believe your own spew Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Narisa Bithon Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Faction ammo is the major trading good that is used to convert high volumes of loyalty points (LP) into ISK. If T2 ammo becomes a substitute for that, there will be less demand for faction ammo. The price of faction ammo will go down (to a level close to the t2 ammo price). The LP will therefor be worth less, means the missionrunners will get a hit in their income again. Especially the level 5 missionrunners, who get LP as their major reward. Did CCP do this on purpose ? Do they hate missionrunners ? Or will they compensate that by adding new stuff to the LP stores ? fail observation ---- faction ammo will still sell like mad cos anyone who cant use t2 guns will still buy it for pew pew
Matt Douglass	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Herrring lol, Its sometimes astonishing how people manage to find things to whine at. This. Really dude ? Finally CCP is nerfing something in the positive direction instead of nerfing it to death and you keep on whining about market matters now ? Buy f**** other st with your shtty loyalty points or gtfo Oh and this just in: CCP hates you
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Narisa Bithon fail observation ---- faction ammo will still sell like mad cos anyone who cant use t2 guns will still buy it for pew pew There are people who can't use T2 guns? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:22:00 - [16] Yes, you will make less profit selling Faction ammo. Guess what, focus your missioning to accumulate LP in areas that are unaffected. Some Faction items really worth owning that come to mind are: - Sister Mods, which require like 1500 LP (~3-5 L4 missions) and sell for about 30-40M each. No Sister's standings? - Caldari Navy Ballistics Control Units are way over priced IMHO at 80M per contract - acquire a bunch of those and compete with the current price gougers. No Caldari standings? - Implants from ANY faction sell very well, as do skills books. I for one am very glad they plan this change. It means I can choose to spend LP+ISK+T1 ammo for faction ammo, or ISK for T2 ammo, depending upon current state of finances and resources. Plus, I have long believed that T2 should be on a par or better than Faction due to the typically enormous skills required to use them - if you pay it forward, i.e., acquire the skills, you should realize a true advantage (IMO). Lastly, it simply means you need to focus accumulation of LP more in alignment with profitable items. I learned this the hard way by accumulating 600K of Republic Fleet LP, then realizing that I have neither the skills nor the inclination to operate a Fleet issue Megathron, then having to comb through the LP store offerings to see how I could best utilize such a large pool of LP... You'll figure it out too.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Ultim8Evil Originally by: Narisa Bithon fail observation ---- faction ammo will still sell like mad cos anyone who cant use t2 guns will still buy it for pew pew There are people who can't use T2 guns? Yeah. when you max out your skills on projectiles you can only gain DPS by giving up range as compared to t1 guns.
Paknac Queltel Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Ultim8Evil Originally by: Narisa Bithon fail observation ---- faction ammo will still sell like mad cos anyone who cant use t2 guns will still buy it for pew pew There are people who can't use T2 guns? Obviously, I'm not going to max out my large lazor gun skills if all I use them for if the occasional POS bash. - Paknac Queltel
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:37:00 - [19] Edited by: Joe SMASH on 18/10/2010 15:38:28 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Joe SMASH Mission runners are a bane to Eve. It is good that CCP is no longer catering to them. Level 4 missions should be in lowsec, level 5s in NPC 0.0. This change is good, dump your LP now. Can I have your stuff? You're in for a rude awakening if you're stupid enough to believe your own spew Give me one possible downside of moving higher level missions to more dangerous space. For every one downside, I will give you two or more upsides. Missionbears canceling subs does not count as a downside since the number of cancellations cannot possibly be speculated on where as market reactions can be. Not to mention the vast majority of people threatening to quit over a change never actually cancel the account. So I will go ahead and hold my breath for your logical and well-thought-out response. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Joe SMASH Edited by: Joe SMASH on 18/10/2010 15:38:28 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Joe SMASH Mission runners are a bane to Eve. It is good that CCP is no longer catering to them. Level 4 missions should be in lowsec, level 5s in NPC 0.0. This change is good, dump your LP now. Can I have your stuff? You're in for a rude awakening if you're stupid enough to believe your own spew Give me one possible downside of moving higher level missions to more dangerous space. For every one downside, I will give you two or more upsides. Missionbears canceling subs does not count as a downside since the number of cancellations cannot possibly be speculated on where as market reactions can be. Not to mention the vast majority of people threatening to quit over a change never actually cancel the account. So I will go ahead and hold my breath for your logical and well-thought-out response. The higher level missions already are in more dangerous space.
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Joe SMASH Edited by: Joe SMASH on 18/10/2010 15:38:28 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Joe SMASH Mission runners are a bane to Eve. It is good that CCP is no longer catering to them. Level 4 missions should be in lowsec, level 5s in NPC 0.0. This change is good, dump your LP now. Can I have your stuff? You're in for a rude awakening if you're stupid enough to believe your own spew Give me one possible downside of moving higher level missions to more dangerous space. For every one downside, I will give you two or more upsides. Missionbears canceling subs does not count as a downside since the number of cancellations cannot possibly be speculated on where as market reactions can be. Not to mention the vast majority of people threatening to quit over a change never actually cancel the account. So I will go ahead and hold my breath for your logical and well-thought-out response. The higher level missions already are in more dangerous space. Since we have slow people reading this thread, "higher level" = level 4 and up. Last time I checked, Motsu & Dodixie are 0.9 space and therefore perfectly safe for all intents and purposes. level 5 missions are in lowsec, which is a complete joke the deeper you get. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:45:00 - [22] I still don't see how this is a nerf to mission runners, unless I missed the note from CCP that says the ammo will be good for every conceivable mission scenario. Removing the negative effects of the ammo won't make it replace faction ammo that I can see.
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Joe SMASH Last time I checked, Motsu & Dodixie are 0.9 space and therefore perfectly safe for all intents and purposes. This isn't promoted on the mission running and C&P forums nearly enough. Mission runners in Dodixie & Motsu are perfectly safe. They should take advantage of this, buy the most expensive ships they can with the most expensive faction fittings and brag, loudly, in local about it. They have nothing to fear from doing so because, after all, they are perfectly safe.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.10.18 15:54:00 - [24] LOTS of noobs will still use faction ammo...because they're noobs and don't have the skills for t2. lp will not go down due to this boost. When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Barakkus	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba From the latest Devblog: Quote: Tech II ammo is getting some love in the coming expansion. We are focusing on the short range versions of the Tech II ammo such as Gleam, Conflagration, Hail, Quake, Void and Javelin. We are removing various negative effects from each, focusing on the drawbacks which penalize your ship itself and also stack per hardpoint loaded with the ammo. This means the ammo will be a good alternative to the faction ammo and, without such focused and sometimes crippling drawbacks, will be much more useful. Faction ammo is the major trading good that is used to convert high volumes of loyalty points (LP) into ISK. If T2 ammo becomes a substitute for that, there will be less demand for faction ammo. The price of faction ammo will go down (to a level close to the t2 ammo price). The LP will therefor be worth less, means the missionrunners will get a hit in their income again. Especially the level 5 missionrunners, who get LP as their major reward. Did CCP do this on purpose ? Do they hate missionrunners ? Or will they compensate that by adding new stuff to the LP stores ? Considering t2 ammo is very limited in it's damage types, I don't see a problem here. I have no use for t2 projectile ammo usually. Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus? Wait a minute...
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Joe SMASH Give me one possible downside of moving higher level missions to more dangerous space. For every one downside, I will give you two or more upsides. Missionbears canceling subs does not count as a downside since the number of cancellations cannot possibly be speculated on where as market reactions can be. Not to mention the vast majority of people threatening to quit over a change never actually cancel the account. So I will go ahead and hold my breath for your logical and well-thought-out response. Since we have slow people reading this thread, "higher level" = level 4 and up. The tl:dr version: Prices in EvE will go up while subscription numbers will drop. Why? Because higher level missions are a very strong ISK faucet that's been milked good and hard for many years now. That means more ISK is flowing in EvE. Moving higher level missions into low-sec (without any changes to low-sec) will not kill the ISK faucet, but it will decimate the number of people that "drink" from the faucet. That means less ISK will flow. Note that I do not make any guesstimates on how large the effect will be, and it won't be felt right off the bat, but it's safe to say that it will be felt pretty well throughout the entire game, beginning with the prices going up of modules that normally only drop from L4s (Every BS-sized module up to Meta 4, for example). Salvage materials will be next, then generally all modules that drop from missions. But the big effect will be the drop in income. THAT will be the kicker. Even if all the L4 runners that won't run L4s anymore would turn to L3s instead (which is very likely) it won't hold a candle to the ISKies and item drops from L4s. Less ISK flowing in the game = less propability that people will use their ISK. Less ISK flowing in the game = Less reason for economically-minded people to want to play EvE. (Let's not forget all the people that actually will quit EvE as a direct result of this change) Less players playing EvE = Downside. Again, note that I make no guesstimates on how many players will quit EvE.
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:08:00 - [27] Note that the statement is that they're focussing on the penalties which stack per hardpoint. Yes, that means things like the Cap and speed penalties not the tracking penalties. Rage Torps will still, from that statement, suck at hitting anything that isn't sieged (or a discoball of painters). Gleam will still fail to track Freighters... Faction Ammo will still be in significantly higher demand than T2 and most likely we will find the status quo and your LP/Isk ratios unchanged (unless you do a little research and find one of the many items which yield considerably higher returns than Ammo). -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba From the latest Devblog: Faction ammo is the major trading good that is used to convert high volumes of loyalty points (LP) into ISK. If T2 ammo becomes a substitute for that, there will be less demand for faction ammo. The price of faction ammo will go down (to a level close to the t2 ammo price). The LP will therefor be worth less, means the missionrunners will get a hit in their income again. Especially the level 5 missionrunners, who get LP as their major reward. Did CCP do this on purpose ? Do they hate missionrunners ? Or will they compensate that by adding new stuff to the LP stores ? crai more helpless noob Wherever you went - Here you are.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:14:00 - [29] I will still be using faction crystals as they dont burn out as fast.
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:20:00 - [30] meh... CCP is much better than other companies who make MMO's. In fact, I'd say there are only 1 or 2 other companies, along with CCP, who actually do make decent MMO's and don't leave a slew of completely, utterly, horrifically game breaking flaws and exploits to screw the game. I've played MMO's where the producers let the game go completely to **** and utterly cave in on itself, and simply say "yeah, we've noticed the problem" while sitting there and enjoying their subscriptions while it lasts. CCP hasn't let Eve do this so far by any means. The thing that bewilders me the most, though, is that you folks stick around in Eve and keep playing even though you hate it so much. I've left eve, come back, left again, come back again, and repeated this cycle, because I simply don't play video games that I don't enjoy at the time. If you guys are such masochists, there are women in leather you call for a better time than playing a game you hate so much.

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