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Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:14:00 -
[1]
Its really lacking, perhaps changing last high slot and make it a launcher slot or remove it and add another mid. Its not so great dps and lacks a decent tank, so make it a gank ship?
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/11/2010 20:29:22
 Quote:
Its not so great dps and lacks a decent tank
Mine does 440 w/ scourge fury out to 150k range (which is a lot more in practice than it looks with HMLs) and has 41k EHP with the lowest resist at 70.
With a HAMs it goes up to 494 dps (550ish w/ fury) at 40km range.
Maybe you just suck at fitting?
If the Cerb needs anything it's a significant grid/CPU boost.
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Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:29:00 -
[3]
Sure you it has range, though, to apply the dps from that range is going to take a bit. Heavy missiles arent what you call great dps. Scourge have trouble hitting smaller targets anyways. As for HAMS, sure its higher dps, But the dps can easily be kited use rage and most ships will laugh at you.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:30:00 -
[4]
It's bad at HAM brawling (get a drake), but if you have long range support to pew at it's worth bringing one in HML fit. But if they arent operating anything a zealot/munin can't already hit you're right it's not so great either way.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:37:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/11/2010 20:44:52
If you're talking solo, you're using the wrong ship. I use mine in a HAC gang as dps and it works just fine at that.
Quote:
Heavy missiles arent what you call great dps
As I said in my first post that you obviously didn't read: HML dps is better in practice than on paper, as with good skills they hit for consistantly good damage at any range.
For sniping, general rule of thumb is: bigger the gang, the bigger the problem you'll have with flight time, but that's an issue with missiles in general and not the Cerb.
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Benglada
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.02 22:45:00 -
[6]
I absolutely love my cerberus, I can solo basically all level 4s with it and its a great GREAT small gang pvp ship. If it had an extra mid I would solo with it 24/7
I also do about 450dps with HMLS..I don't like using hams at all.
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Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.Applebabe |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.03 04:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Le Creed
Sure you it has range, though, to apply the dps from that range is going to take a bit.
well I do prefer to use missile speed rigs.
them heavies going for 10km/sec is actually interesting, and what makes the cerb a somewhat unique ship.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Asuka Smith
Gallente
StarHunt
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Posted - 2010.11.03 08:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 03/11/2010 08:44:11
Unless you are using it in a shield nanohac gang with logistic support the Drake is better. And 9/10 your friends will be in drakes anyways so what good is that extra speed if you just hurry up and wait when you need your gang there to engage anything.
EDIT: I actually quite like this ship, but it's just not worth using in very many situations unfortunately. I think the tank is fine but the DPS is too anemic and it's speed while decent is not enough to redeem it compared to other options. I mean it's only 30% faster than a drake and does the same DPS.
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Le Creed
Its really lacking, perhaps changing last high slot and make it a launcher slot or remove it and add another mid. Its not so great dps and lacks a decent tank, so make it a gank ship?
Cerberus is seriously lacking but I think those changes are to good. Now Cerberus have three problems:
1) two range bonuses - one is enough and missile flight time can be changed to more useful one.
2) very tight fitting
3) lack or dronebay
You don't have to change slot layout to make Cerberus formidable foe. Fix one of those problem and you will get decent ship - fix two - and you will get good ship.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:39:00 -
[10]
Cerberus is fine. It can do 400 dps at very high range, much more then zealots and almost double that of muninn's. It also has an awesome alpha. However, just like barrage and aurora ammo, it blows against tacklers and drams
Cerberus should NEVER fit HAM's. Drake is better at it.
Missile flight time was never an issue in fleet's. If your m8's are shooting air, that just means you need a better FC.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2010.11.03 11:46:00 -
[11]
Cerb is great in gangs of <20.
It does a solid 400 dps out to about 210 km (using one sebo with lock range) that will hit cruisers and above for full damage, and frigates for a fairly decent amount. A cerb or two will mean that enemy falcons, rooks, arazus and so on won't be able to stay on grid for very long at all. They also cause huge problems for fast ships like vagabonds.
Solo the cerb is kinda hopeless, and flight time starts to matter once the gang sizes get to about 30+. But for small gangs it's a really good ship.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.03 11:56:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Cerberus should NEVER fit HAM's.
You seem to be under the impression HAM fit means "get into web range". Not true when the ship in question can shoot 40km with them.
That said I definately prefer heavies.
On the subject of the flight time bonus - what about a Nighthawk style explosion velocity bonus? That'd give it a very clear advantage over the Drake.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.03 12:51:00 -
[13]
40km is scorch range :)
bloody amarr battleships....
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.03 13:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Darth Felin
1) two range bonuses - one is enough and missile flight time can be changed to more useful one.
yes, I wouldn't touch on the missile speed one. Perhaps a resistance bonus, or a shield HP bonus would be more interesting.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.11.03 14:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 03/11/2010 14:57:53
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
On the subject of the flight time bonus - what about a Nighthawk style explosion velocity bonus? That'd give it a very clear advantage over the Drake.
You have no idea how much I'd love to see that. HML Cerbs able to deliver the same or nearly the same destruction to frigates at twice the range of current AML Cerbs.... Mmm....
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.03 15:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 03/11/2010 15:32:20
5th low slot - damage control, nano, 3x ballistic control units
Edit: if you don't see the advantage of a cerb over a drake it's only because you haven't flown a cerb in a sniper gang (ie, engaging at 100+ KMs.) Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.03 15:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 03/11/2010 14:57:53
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
On the subject of the flight time bonus - what about a Nighthawk style explosion velocity bonus? That'd give it a very clear advantage over the Drake.
You have no idea how much I'd love to see that. HML Cerbs able to deliver the same or nearly the same destruction to frigates at twice the range of current AML Cerbs.... Mmm....
goddamn that would be so awesome people would call it overpowered.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
TheKalila
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Posted - 2010.11.03 16:49:00 -
[18]
Not much wrong with a HAM Cerb either, more EHP and DPS at a nice range (35-40km) than a Vaga and still decent speed/agility with nano/polys.
Works well in nano gangs and decent solo with Crash booster, making HAMs deadly to more targets without web and using range and speed to advantage.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
Hydraulic bay thrusters. 
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:46:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 03/11/2010 17:52:41
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
Hydraulic bay thrusters.
Really? post a fit. I'll give you a hint...your epic tank is disappearing one hydraulic bay thruster and sensor booster at a time. ;)
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 03/11/2010 18:02:19
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 03/11/2010 17:52:41
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
Hydraulic bay thrusters.
Really? post a fit. I'll give you a hint...your epic tank is disappearing one hydraulic bay thruster and sensor booster at a time. ;)
I never said it was a mainstream fit, or a desireable outside a fleet that warrents it, but a drake can hit the 100km mark if you so desire (and still maintain more tank than the cerb). |
Random Alt1467
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 03/11/2010 17:52:41
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
Hydraulic bay thrusters.
Really? post a fit. I'll give you a hint...your epic tank is disappearing one hydraulic bay thruster and sensor booster at a time. ;)
[Drake, 100km]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
343 missle damage at 110 range with a 15 second flight time, goes up to 422 at drone range. lock range of 120.
Remove the thursters and booster and with just base 5 missile flight times you get out to 84km which is beyond lock range. 52k+ EHP depending on implants and what not with a 100dps passive regen at peak. Runs everything for about 4 minutes with the MWD on and does 1200m/3. |
Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Le Creed
Its really lacking, perhaps changing last high slot and make it a launcher slot or remove it and add another mid. Its not so great dps and lacks a decent tank, so make it a gank ship?
I see some drake fits here. Good try guys but a drake is not a sniper boat thought it does have it's uses to be sure.
Cerb snipes great. That is what it does. It does it well. Nothing else tbqfh. You could put a salvage in the spare high for overheating but meh. More of a nuisance than a real benefit. I'd like a 5th low for a damage control, 3rd ballistic control, or maybe a second nano or ~possibly overdrive injector...i'd have to play around and decide.
[Cerberus, tasty copy 1]
Reactor Control Unit II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 100km // None 130km // Targeting Range 160km
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:55:00 -
[24]
Hint: Photon instead of 2nd LSE frees up the low that RCU is using and gives you insane omni resist.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 03/11/2010 19:53:55
Originally by: Indeterminacy
I see some drake fits here. Good try guys but a drake is not a sniper boat thought it does have it's uses to be sure.
Uhm, who said anything about a drake being a sniper? Point was, the drake can hit 100km without going into sub-cerb tank level. I agreed that the cerb was better off with heavy missiles. Actually, that's all i'd use it for. The cerb is obviously better when you approach 150+km and you're in a true long-range support role.
What the cerb is -not- worth it for is HAMs and sub-100km (imho) because the drake does the same job at a fraction of the price. And as it turns out, that's the vast majority of the time.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:56:00 -
[26]
The thing about the Cerb, is that it _is_ outclassed by the Drake, if you want a tough brawler of a ship. That's ... more or less inevitable actually, given the nature of the beast.
However it remains the case that what the Cerb can do - and does really well - is lob firepower extreme ranges. I mean, it _will_ fire 250km. There's not many ships that can do that at all, and even a battleship is quite hard pressed to do 400dps at that range.
Sure, there's flight time to worry about - and there's the drawbacks (and advantages) of the cruiser hull, and cruiser weapon system (e.g. Heavy missiles being _much_ more potent against smaller targets)
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.03 21:48:00 -
[27]
The problem with the Cerberus is that it's a Cerberus.
Originally by: Templar Dane
Tanking is not a role.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.03 21:57:00 -
[28]
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.04 09:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Ishtar.
AHAC Zealot.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.04 09:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
I bet you couldnt be more clueless than this.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.11.04 09:59:00 -
[31]
Change the flight time bonus to a missile velocity bonus imo.
Then it wouldn't take an hour to hit things and it'll be a sweet sniper.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.04 11:33:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Moose Burger on 04/11/2010 11:36:18
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? Arty shield canes
Fits that facemelt? AC canes
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? HM drakes
Fits that facemelt? HAM drakes
Moreover, im bored. too bad.
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SwissChris1
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Posted - 2010.11.04 11:47:00 -
[33]
Edited by: SwissChris1 on 04/11/2010 11:50:21
What bothers me about the Cerberus is the tank....DPS is good but with it's tank I cannot see this thing beating a good drake pilot (and the drake also cost lolisk compared to Cerberus). Sure it has great resistance but only meh eHP (I use 2x T2 Extender rigs on mine).
Where the Cerberus really shines (so I have been told by big corps and alliances) is in fleets, lobbing HAMs at +40km is pretty darn cool (and it is faster than a drake).
As mentioned by another poster the cpu and grid on this ship is very tight, especially when fitting a MWD and HAMs.
I used my Cerberus in a few lvl 4s (Tengu still better for PVE) and Caldari level 1+2 Cosmos agents for lols 
edit: Caracal hull is one of my favorite in the game and the Cerberus skin is HOT! 
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2010.11.04 13:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 03/11/2010 15:32:20
5th low slot - damage control, nano, 3x ballistic control units
Edit: if you don't see the advantage of a cerb over a drake it's only because you haven't flown a cerb in a sniper gang (ie, engaging at 100+ KMs.) Tell me, how well does the drake hit at 100KM?
52k+ EHP (omni fit, no holes) :: 1000+ m/s speed (MWD) :: ~500 dps with faction scourges @ 111 km
Price? Uhmmmm 50M ISK fitted and insured?
Want me to post the fit?
And that exactly why I dont even consider flying a cerberus, please fix it.
Regards
I.
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.04 13:42:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 04/11/2010 13:45:54
Originally by: SwissChris1
Edited by: SwissChris1 on 04/11/2010 11:50:21
What bothers me about the Cerberus is the tank....DPS is good but with it's tank I cannot see this thing beating a good drake pilot (and the drake also cost lolisk compared to Cerberus). Sure it has great resistance but only meh eHP (I use 2x T2 Extender rigs on mine).
Where the Cerberus really shines (so I have been told by big corps and alliances) is in fleets, lobbing HAMs at +40km is pretty darn cool (and it is faster than a drake).
As mentioned by another poster the cpu and grid on this ship is very tight, especially when fitting a MWD and HAMs.
I used my Cerberus in a few lvl 4s (Tengu still better for PVE) and Caldari level 1+2 Cosmos agents for lols
edit: Caracal hull is one of my favorite in the game and the Cerberus skin is HOT!
A cerberus is not meant to "beat a drake" or any other ship 1v1. It's not a solo ship.
It is as you hinted at a fleet/support ship. But not for HAM....HML. And (ideally) not at 40km but 100+ KM. It's a very niche role ship: Shield/Nano sniper HAC gangs or support in long range fleets. I dunno why this is so hard for many to accept and why it instantly spawns comparisons to draeke (swiss army knife of EVE which is to say it can do everything...but nothing particularly well).
edit: oh, and if it's a laggy environment. forget a cerb fly something else. maybe a draeke!
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.04 13:44:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aerilis
Change the flight time bonus to a missile velocity bonus imo.
Then it wouldn't take an hour to hit things and it'll be a sweet sniper.
two missile speed bonuses?
well it would be interesting to see missiles going like at 15km/sec or so
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.04 13:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aerilis
Change the flight time bonus to a missile velocity bonus imo.
Then it wouldn't take an hour to hit things and it'll be a sweet sniper.
two missile speed bonuses?
well it would be interesting to see missiles going like at 15km/sec or so
The trouble with this is CCP have specifically mentioned that high-speed missiles do wierd things to the game engine.
What they haven't told us is their definition of "high speed". The fastest I've managed to get any missile (EFT theory only) is around 11km/s but I'd definately like to see a reduction in flight time. |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.11.04 14:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aerilis
Change the flight time bonus to a missile velocity bonus imo.
Then it wouldn't take an hour to hit things and it'll be a sweet sniper.
two missile speed bonuses?
well it would be interesting to see missiles going like at 15km/sec or so
The trouble with this is CCP have specifically mentioned that high-speed missiles do wierd things to the game engine.
What they haven't told us is their definition of "high speed". The fastest I've managed to get any missile (EFT theory only) is around 11km/s but I'd definately like to see a reduction in flight time.
yeah it is possible to have missiles going over 14km/s but they were all lol fit tengus with 2x t2 speed rigs and 1x t1. still would like to fit it one day and use ungrouped missiles for additional lulz.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.04 14:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aerilis
Change the flight time bonus to a missile velocity bonus imo.
Then it wouldn't take an hour to hit things and it'll be a sweet sniper.
two missile speed bonuses?
well it would be interesting to see missiles going like at 15km/sec or so
The trouble with this is CCP have specifically mentioned that high-speed missiles do wierd things to the game engine.
What they haven't told us is their definition of "high speed". The fastest I've managed to get any missile (EFT theory only) is around 11km/s but I'd definately like to see a reduction in flight time.
it is actually quite easy to push heavy missiles to nearly 11km/sec on a cerb.
all you need is missile projection at 5, and 2 missile speed rings.
you get to lob missiles up to 230km like this, but it's really more of a side-effect, since all I wanted was increased missile speed. |
Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.11.04 15:50:00 -
[40]
Missle times mean Cerbs aren't good for putting DPS on primary since target will melt so fast. And since the DPS can be matched by a much cheaper and higher tanked ship (Drake), why bother?
I thought Cerb was for sitting back and plinking enemy long-ranged EWAR (eg Falcons/Scorpions/BBs)?
In that role, admittedly limited, it seems quite effective. But its an excellent role to have covered in a gangs of 5-25 pilots, no?
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 16:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
I thought Cerb was for sitting back and plinking enemy long-ranged EWAR (eg Falcons/Scorpions/BBs)?
In that role, admittedly limited, it seems quite effective. But its an excellent role to have covered in a gangs of 5-25 pilots, no?
You thought right, and yeah, it's a very limited role. Wether or not it's an "exellent" role depends on how reliant the enemy fleet is on long distance ewar.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.11.04 16:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: Le Creed
Its really lacking, perhaps changing last high slot and make it a launcher slot or remove it and add another mid. Its not so great dps and lacks a decent tank, so make it a gank ship?
I see some drake fits here. Good try guys but a drake is not a sniper boat thought it does have it's uses to be sure.
Cerb snipes great. That is what it does. It does it well. Nothing else tbqfh. You could put a salvage in the spare high for overheating but meh. More of a nuisance than a real benefit. I'd like a 5th low for a damage control, 3rd ballistic control, or maybe a second nano or ~possibly overdrive injector...i'd have to play around and decide.
[Cerberus, tasty copy 1]
Reactor Control Unit II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 100km // None 130km // Targeting Range 160km
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
I noticed you did your fit with Navy missiles. EFT warrioring doesn't work that well if you don't understand the mechanics it takes to hit something with a missile. Good to see someone else has enough of a brain to realize that if two identical cruiser-sized ships are trading missiles, the one using Fury is going to be dead before the shield even breaks on the guy using Navy missiles.
I'll say it once again. Fury HM do not hit targets with under 300 sig radius for more than half damage unless they have multiple webs and painters on them. HAM's aren't much better even with T1. I should just STFU about this TBH, and let the noobs happily blast away thinking they're pwning their target with 450 DPS when they are only doing about 150-300.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:05:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 04/11/2010 18:12:36
Geez, not another one?
There are three general reasons why it's not popular:
1. It's a highly specialised ship, with little utility (for itself and it's gang) and flexibility (performance out of optimal conditions).
2. It's ideal role lack practical use, intergration of game mechanics and other ships (both targets and wingmen) within it's scope.
3. The concrecte roles it could fill is better supplanted onto other similar ships (Drake, Rook, Faction, Tengu etc).
3.1. It does not have the speed to perform well in a fast, kiting, short-medium range gang (ie., nano hacs).
3.2. It does not have the tank to perform in a tanky gang (eg., armor hacs, BC or BS) or group-interaction where it grows there (ie., Basilisk-support does not make it awesome).
3.3. When it comes to the role it's supposed to excel [sniping hacs] it's advantages do not outweigh the drawbacks.
Name one role that the Cerb do better than any other ship?
Let me give you an example of #2 and 3.3: Sniping has been popularized around 100km because you can warp there without bookmarks or warp-ins and hostiles can not warp directly to you. Hostile tackle have far enough to burn for you, while friendly tackle are close enough to come to you, under cover of fire. You are at a distance where other support ships (eg., Scimis) can cover both you and the necessary tackle, or replace them in their role (eg., LR Arazu).
So if you want to put the Cerb's advantage in distance to any use, the game require you to use bookmarks (or burn there) and allow hostiles the ability to warp there as well. You will be further separated from any friendly support - as you separate further from your targets - and you will split your support from oneanother as well. Then add #1 to that, eg., going through the inevitable gate, you are more likely to be caught as you are slower, you have more trouble shaking a tackler since you lack utility and you have little utility to provide for someone else who get caught. Regardless if you play in your ideal, adapt to a gang or get forced to adapt for tactical/situational reasons - you require (mooch) more than you provide.
Name one gang you'd like to bring the ship to - and i could probably give you about 5 other ships and the reasons they'd be preferred over the Cerb in that concept.
With that said, it's not a terrible ship, it's just very focused without excelling at anything practical. There's no reason to buy one outside of reservation (skill points, experimentation, cosmetics).
When and why would you use it? How would you succeed with that?
edit. formatting.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Geez, not another one?
There are three general reasons why it's not popular.
1. It's a highly specialised ship, with little utility (for itself and it's gang) and flexibility (performance out of optimal conditions)
2. It's ideal role lack practical use, intergration of game mechanics and other ships (both targets and wingmen) within it's scope.
3. The concrecte roles it could fill is better supplanted onto other similar ships (Drake, Rook, Faction, Tengu etc).
3.1. It does not have the speed to perform well in a fast, kiting, short-medium range gang (ie., nano hacs).
3.2. It does not have the tank to perform in a tanky gang (eg., armor hacs, BC or BS) or group-interaction where it grows there (ie., Basilisk-support does not make it awesome).
3.3. When it comes to the role it's supposed to excel [sniping hacs] it's advantages do not outweigh the drawbacks.
Name one role that the Cerb do better than any other ship?
When and why would you use it? How would you succeed with that?
Let me give you an example of #2 and 3.3: Sniping has been popularized around 100km because you can warp there without bookmarks or warp-ins and hostiles can not warp directly to you. Hostile tackle have far enough to burn for you, while friendly tackle are close enough to come to you, under cover of fire. You are at a distance where other support ships (eg., Scimis) can cover both you and the necessary tackle, or replace them in their role (eg., LR Arazu).
So if you want to put the Cerb's advantage in distance to any use, the game require you to use bookmarks (or burn there) and allow hostiles the ability to warp there as well. You will be further separated from any friendly support - as you separate further from your targets - and you will split your support from oneanother as well. Then add #1 to that, eg., going through the inevitable gate, you are more likely to be caught as you are slower, you have more trouble shaking a tackler since you lack utility and you have little utility to provide for someone else who get caught. Regardless if you play in your ideal, adapt to a gang or get forced to adapt for tactical/situational reasons - you require (mooch) more than you provide.
Name one gang you'd like to bring the ship to - and i could probably give you about 5 other ships and the reasons they'd be preferred over the Cerb in that concept.
With that said, it's not a terrible ship, it's just very focused without excelling at anything practical. There's never any reason to buy one outside of skill points or experimentation.
Good summary.
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TheKalila
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:12:00 -
[45]
haters gonna hate
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Geez, not another one?
There are three general reasons why it's not popular.
1. It's a highly specialised ship, with little utility (for itself and it's gang) and flexibility (performance out of optimal conditions)
2. It's ideal role lack practical use, intergration of game mechanics and other ships (both targets and wingmen) within it's scope.
3. The concrecte roles it could fill is better supplanted onto other similar ships (Drake, Rook, Faction, Tengu etc).
3.1. It does not have the speed to perform well in a fast, kiting, short-medium range gang (ie., nano hacs).
3.2. It does not have the tank to perform in a tanky gang (eg., armor hacs, BC or BS) or group-interaction where it grows there (ie., Basilisk-support does not make it awesome).
3.3. When it comes to the role it's supposed to excel [sniping hacs] it's advantages do not outweigh the drawbacks.
Name one role that the Cerb do better than any other ship?
When and why would you use it? How would you succeed with that?
Let me give you an example of #2 and 3.3: Sniping has been popularized around 100km because you can warp there without bookmarks or warp-ins and hostiles can not warp directly to you. Hostile tackle have far enough to burn for you, while friendly tackle are close enough to come to you, under cover of fire. You are at a distance where other support ships (eg., Scimis) can cover both you and the necessary tackle, or replace them in their role (eg., LR Arazu).
So if you want to put the Cerb's advantage in distance to any use, the game require you to use bookmarks (or burn there) and allow hostiles the ability to warp there as well. You will be further separated from any friendly support - as you separate further from your targets - and you will split your support from oneanother as well. Then add #1 to that, eg., going through the inevitable gate, you are more likely to be caught as you are slower, you have more trouble shaking a tackler since you lack utility and you have little utility to provide for someone else who get caught. Regardless if you play in your ideal, adapt to a gang or get forced to adapt for tactical/situational reasons - you require (mooch) more than you provide.
Name one gang you'd like to bring the ship to - and i could probably give you about 5 other ships and the reasons they'd be preferred over the Cerb in that concept.
With that said, it's not a terrible ship, it's just very focused without excelling at anything practical. There's never any reason to buy one outside of skill points or experimentation.
Good summary.
yeah but I would still use it at 100km ranges, because it actually works better at that range, due to missile speed. Granted it has delayed damage, but amazingly I find it surprising that fighting at those ranges with other SHAC's, I used to get top damage dealing, amazingly. And it's amazing the fact that a 3 BCU cerb with CN scourge has the same alpha as a 3 gyro munnin. Of course that, being a missile ship, said alpha is restricted to immobile ships, and it's all kinetic. It is of note, however, that the cerb's dps with CN scourge surpasses every other SHAC with similar fits (3 dmg mods). Again, however, the counter to this is the fact that missiles take time to reach there.
Still, the fact that it can lob missiles at 200km+ ranges is pretty much a side effect in my opinion, and in the same way, I do consider the cerb a extreme case of specialization, since it does the job of lobbing missiles at OMFG ranges like no other, yet, said speciality isn't really that special on the grand scheme of things.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:10:00 -
[47]
So shorten the flight time, but increase the missile velocity to keep the range, which will allow for a faster hit, making it a more suited ship for a hac snipe fleet.
Drop the rof bonus but take the last open high slot and make it another launcher slot to give it a larger alpha.
Does that sound better to you folks?
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:10:00 -
[48]
Quote:
I'll say it once again. Fury HM do not hit targets with under 300 sig radius for more than half damage unless they have multiple webs and painters on them.
This bears repeating (over and over) in every thread concerning missiles.
Specially those Drake hate threads posted by people who seem to think flying around with Furys (lower range, big sig increase, bad expl velocity and radius vs anything under BS) loaded all the time is a good idea. "But you can change ammo!" (and lose what, 40%?, of your dps). Pfft.
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Jewanna
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Edited by: Moose Burger on 04/11/2010 11:36:18
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? Arty shield canes
Fits that facemelt? AC canes
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? HM drakes
Fits that facemelt? HAM drakes
Moreover, im bored. too bad.
This x1000000. Smartest post on these boards in quite a while.
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Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:13:00 -
[50]
oh and add a little more pg, to allow a Hams to fit decently with a mwd
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Le Creed
So shorten the flight time, but increase the missile velocity to keep the range, which will allow for a faster hit, making it a more suited ship for a hac snipe fleet.
Drop the rof bonus but take the last open high slot and make it another launcher slot to give it a larger alpha.
Does that sound better to you folks?
replacing the missile flight time bonus for a missile speed one would be quite enough really, altho CCP said that beyond a certain speed and due to limitations of the game engine, they start to act wonky.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Kuhn Arashi
Caldari
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:18:00 -
[52]
if you wanna use hams or be an in-your-face cerb. get a Navy Issue Caracal. Its cheaper, still faster than a drake, with the 15m3 drone bay and extra stats its dps is stronger close range and has the same EHP potential.
Navy caracal is a great ship for fast moving cruiser gangs.
its only disadvantage is people see faction, they shoot it, thinking its more expensive than all the T2's around it. 
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 04/11/2010 18:12:36
Geez, not another one?
There are three general reasons why it's not popular:
...and a bunch of other relevant and truthfull info...
edit. formatting.
Also: No freekin drone bay.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:50:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jewanna
Originally by: Moose Burger
Edited by: Moose Burger on 04/11/2010 11:36:18
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? Arty shield canes
Fits that facemelt? AC canes
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? HM drakes
Fits that facemelt? HAM drakes
Moreover, im bored. too bad.
This x1000000. Smartest post on these boards in quite a while.
Apart from being provably wrong, ofc.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.11.04 21:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grimpak
yeah but I would still use it at 100km ranges, because it actually works better at that range /.../ It is of note, however, that the cerb's dps with CN scourge surpasses every other SHAC with similar fits (3 dmg mods). Again, however, the counter to this is the fact that missiles take time to reach there.
Don't take this as me disagreeing with you, it's only that at those ranges...
It's role is more or less ursurped by a Rook in terms of combined damage and utility, a Tengu at doing the same thing better and having more utility while at cost, a nano Drake with missile speed rigs at doing virtually the same thing at a lower cost and an Eagle at being underwhelming. There's no clean cut, Cerb role.
All of a sudden, you have a race with 4-5 similar half-decent options (whereof at least 3 perform only in that role) while none of them excel. The Cerb wouldn't even by my first pick among them. If im allowed to be a bit blunt, even a bomber can hit at 100km and have more utility in terms of the cloak and bombs. I'm being more argumentative for sake of sarcasm than sincere here, but it will have an easier time to get into position, apply decent damage at desired ranges and do provide tactical options (obviously, it's main damage source isn't comparable - but rest on similar mechanics of dps/alpha for tta/accuracy). I'm not suggesting you bring a bomber, only that with some creativity you can more or less lump it in with the other mediocre options.
At the same time the Cerb will lack both mobility and utility in comparison with the popular turret-based options, making them favoured if you look past what you have to compete with among Caldari ships alone. The Muninn does not only have similar alpha, but a drone-bay, utility slots, high-tracking and high-damage ammo switches with a good chunk of speed. Mobility being quite essential.
So once you've filled your quota of Zealots and Muninns (applicable tech III variations), Scimis, Dictors and tackle, the odd Recon and Minmatar gang-links - you might look into Caldari. At that point i'd start looking at Tengus that outperform Cerbs with both missiles and turrets, while having other options that include providing links and escaping tackle. Next i'd definately rather see a Rook, that retain a good average DPS and alpha, yet shed some of that 'potential' damage advantage for a flight of drones and a rack of ECM. To me, there's no contest. Then, maybe then you can argue which is worse over the Cerb and Eagle. Cerb likely to be the lesser evil - which ends up with asking yourself if it's worth the ISK or if you should just get a Drake.
Originally by: Soporo
Also: No freekin drone bay.
That's included in the lack of utility .
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.04 22:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/11/2010 22:25:53
Originally by: Noisrevbus
concise post about the state of the cerberus
indeed it has said problems, I do need however to point out that, a rook's jammers don't work that well at 100km, unless you rig it (and even then you're lacking a bit), and then there's the bit about damage mods, unless you prefer to fill out the entire lowslots with BCU's, damage-wise (sans drones), you're looking at a some anemic 160dps. Still, I do agree that the rook has far more utility than the cerb, but making it work like a cerb seems pretty much counterproductive, altho workable.
it's more of a CCP design fault tho, introducing two very specific ewar ships (falcon/rook), and while being somewhat balanced as a ECM ship, people abused of the ECM like there's no tomorrow, since all the other Ewar is meh, and then decide to nerf it like they did (heck, boosting all the other ewar/recon ships, and swapping ECM optimal for falloff would be a better approach). In sum, bad ship design, like the falcon's drone bay (like, whoever uses the falcon's dronebay anyways?)
now, don't take me as disagreeing with you, I'm not. I totally agree that the cerb needs a change.
making it a HAM brawler however, doesn't seem the correct way. That would be stepping on the Sacri's toes too much. Would prefer to give it a 6th missile slot, some more fitting space (enough to retain today's HML setups + 1 launcher), and replace the missile flight time bonus for a 2nd damage bonus or a second missile speed bonus or smth.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.11.04 22:48:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 04/11/2010 22:53:58
Originally by: Soporo
Quote:
I'll say it once again. Fury HM do not hit targets with under 300 sig radius for more than half damage unless they have multiple webs and painters on them.
This bears repeating (over and over) in every thread concerning missiles.
You're both idiots who don't understand how missiles work (lol Soporo). The statement is not correct.
Originally by: Noisebrus
Name one role that the Cerb do better than any other ship?
Small-gang ewar- and logistics-suppression, with a 400 DPS side order of DPS support. No hostile ewar ship or single logistics boat can survive with a Cerberus on the field. Given how powerful those ships are in small-gang environments, this is far from a niche role.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.11.05 00:22:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 05/11/2010 00:24:46
Originally by: Gypsio III
You're both idiots who don't understand how missiles work /.../ No hostile ewar ship or single logistics boat can survive with a Cerberus on the field.
Nice blanket statements there dude, you sure are contributing to this thread .
Grimpak, i'll try to remember commenting on your Rook remarks tomorrow, it's getting too late for me now.
Interesting read though.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.05 00:51:00 -
[59]
Any non sniping Hac thats not vagabond can all be arguably replaced by either Cane or the Drake.
If you try to fit armor tank, and short range guns, canes can fit the same dps,ehp,and almost as much speed and mid slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? Arty shield canes
Fits that facemelt? AC canes
If you try to fit shield tanks, and short range guns, drake can fit the same dps ehp, and almost as much speed and low slots, cept its eons cheaper.
Fits that kite at 30-50km? HM drakes
Fits that facemelt? HAM drakes
Moreover, im bored.
Cerberus role? Sniping. Only. Just like any non sniping non vagabond hac, all of them are moot.
You can fit cerb to snipe 130km+ , and nano at almost 2K km/h
You can fit cerb to snipe and be unprobeable
Or you can simply fit the cerb to have more dps, ehp, speed then any other hac's.
Weakness is simply 10 second delay for their dps. But this is moot when you have good FC's.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:09:00 -
[60]
Quote:
You can fit cerb to snipe 130km+ , and nano at almost 2K km/h
You can fit cerb to snipe and be unprobeable
Or you can simply fit the cerb to have more dps, ehp, speed then any other hac's.
Weakness is simply 10 second delay for their dps. But this is moot when you have good FC's.
10 second flight time at 130k? Ok, but what fit are you using pray tell, and why/how is it superior to a turret boat with similar or close range and which is probably faster and has both a drone bay and instant damage?
Or use an Op dps fit you say? Impractical and untrue as you're not applying that paper lolScourge Fury dps (complete with bad explosion velocity , not to mention sig penalties and slightly lower range) with your mythical mass gang painters as everyone else is flying armor HAC gunships.
Just how are you getting "BEST dps AND ehp AND speed" than anyone else? Fit plse, and try to stop trolling with your Fury's, everyone uses CN Scourge against small and medium stuff.
This is all just people trying to rationalize a weak and mostly unused crazy small niche (shield tanking extreme missile snipiing), otherwise the argued OpPwNess of the Cerb and the lolCruiseRaven would be ruling 0.0 and not AHACS and Amarr BS.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:24:00 -
[61]
If you use it where it excels it is the best missile boat for the job, long range.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:28:00 -
[62]
The proper fit for a cerb is an AML cerb.
Originally by: CCP Lemur
THIS IS GOD: ...
IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:40:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
The proper fit for a cerb is a Tengu.
fyp
Originally by: Templar Dane
Tanking is not a role.
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CCP Jericho
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Posted - 2010.11.06 05:53:00 -
[64]
Inappropriate posts removed. |
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Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.06 08:24:00 -
[65]
Excuse me Jericho, would it be possible to get this passed on, caldari hacs are severely lacking. Perhaps take suggestions about adding a 6th launcher slot in the place of the free one. drop flight time off the bonus and add missile speed?
Or perhaps make it an up close and personal brawler?
Since the eagle is also a snipe hac, but its in rather pathetic condition for damage as is.
Would be nice for CCp to revisit them. Since the only real pvp ships caldari has atm is the drake. Tengu id you dont mind blowing the isk.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente
StarHunt
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Posted - 2010.11.06 10:33:00 -
[66]
The only problem the Eagle has is hybrid turrets. Once they fix hybrid turrets the Eagle will be one of, if not THE premier HAC.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.06 11:10:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
The only problem the Eagle has is hybrid turrets. Once they fix hybrid turrets the Eagle will be one of, if not THE premier HAC.
Only if they make Hybrid turrets really good. The Eagle suffers from the same limitation that all Caldari T2 ships have: horribly constricted grid and not enough low slots.
Zealot with 5x T2 Heavy beam lasers: 237.5 Grid remaining
Eagle with 5x T2 250mm rails: 31.75 grid remaining
Deimos with 5x T2 250mm rails: 175.5 grid remaining
In order to fit a Mandatory Warp Drive (u see what I did thar?), the Eagle has to fit an RCU, reducing it to 3 effective low slots. Meanwhile with these hypothetical new super-rails available, it will be overshadowed by the Deimos with its 6 available low slots plus the equivalent of a free damage mod.
Maybe with hypothetical new super-blasters the Eagle could be a worthwhile shield equivalent to the AHAC concept, but as this depends on having low sig and lots of buffer that seems doubtful (The Eagle has 25% larger sig than the Zealot even before putting on shield extenders).
Even if hybrids are improved, the Eagle's niche seem likely to remain as "plinking tin cans at 200Km"
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.06 12:54:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Or perhaps make it an up close and personal brawler?
You mean like the Deimos? Because that ship works so well...
Give the Cerb a 6th launcher and chances are you will overpower it horribly. As I have explained several times in this thread, HML dps is higher in practice than it looks on paper and works at pretty much any range. Then there's the matter of my HAM Cerb which with this buff would be putting out 660 (774 OH) dps at 40km range. You think Zealot gangs are bad? You've not seen anything yet.
I do like the double missile velocity bonus idea, and still think that a Nighthawk-style explosion velocity bonus to HMLs could work pretty damn well.
Alternatively, we could fix the problem instead of the symptom and buff missile speed across the board...
_________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
The proper fit for a cerb is an AML cerb.
lol
Long range is the proper fit, AML cerbs are a waste.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.11.06 14:16:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
The proper fit for a cerb is an AML cerb.
lol
Long range is the proper fit, AML cerbs are a waste.
100km light missiles are pretty handy as an anti-support weapon. There's not many frigate sized ships that can stick around.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.06 16:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Then there's the matter of my HAM Cerb which with this buff would be putting out 660 (774 OH) dps at 40km range. You think Zealot gangs are bad? You've not seen anything yet.
if they manage to make it so that it becomes nigh on impossible to fit a viable setup with 6 HAM's but it works marginally well with 6 HML's, why not?
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Duchess Starbuckington
|
Posted - 2010.11.06 18:41:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 06/11/2010 18:43:08
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Then there's the matter of my HAM Cerb which with this buff would be putting out 660 (774 OH) dps at 40km range. You think Zealot gangs are bad? You've not seen anything yet.
if they manage to make it so that it becomes nigh on impossible to fit a viable setup with 6 HAM's but it works marginally well with 6 HML's, why not?
By doing what, nerfing HAM grid use to the point where nothing but the Sacrilege can use them properly? The difference between a HAM and HML fit on a Cerberus right now is a single ancilary current router. The grid difference is just that small.
_________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.06 19:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 06/11/2010 18:43:08
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Then there's the matter of my HAM Cerb which with this buff would be putting out 660 (774 OH) dps at 40km range. You think Zealot gangs are bad? You've not seen anything yet.
if they manage to make it so that it becomes nigh on impossible to fit a viable setup with 6 HAM's but it works marginally well with 6 HML's, why not?
By doing what, nerfing HAM grid use to the point where nothing but the Sacrilege can use them properly? The difference between a HAM and HML fit on a Cerberus right now is a single ancilary current router. The grid difference is just that small.
point taken, back to drawing board.
dual missile speed bonus, kin damage + ROF seems to be the best bet then.
maybe shifting the useless highslot for a mid or a low, and a wee bit more of CPU.
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The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.06 21:44:00 -
[74]
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a wee bit more of CPU.
^ This please. I can understand low power grid but CCP's habit of giving shield tanked missileboats low CPU is just plain wierd.
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ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Le Creed
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Posted - 2010.11.06 21:49:00 -
[75]
you mean like the Deimos? Because that ship works so well...
Give the Cerb a 6th launcher and chances are you will overpower it horribly. As I have explained several times in this thread, HML dps is higher in practice than it looks on paper and works at pretty much any range. Then there's the matter of my HAM Cerb which with this buff would be putting out 660 (774 OH) dps at 40km range. You think Zealot gangs are bad? You've not seen anything yet.
I do like the double missile velocity bonus idea, and still think that a Nighthawk-style explosion velocity bonus to HMLs could work pretty damn well.
The Cerb needs something to distinguish it from the Drake besides silly range (which is not exactly much to brag about with missiles) and greater missile precision might just do it.
Alternatively, we could fix the problem instead of the symptom and buff missile speed across the board...
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Funny i see the deimos used far more often than the cerb, imagine that !
I also said previously remove the rate of fire bonus. As for hams at 40km? You ever been shot by them, Unless the target is webbed, even for a BC.. Ive had Canes speed tank them along with harbs..Your dps gets cut by alot. Add terror rage and its that much worse.
It would be 600+ dps in 1 damage type that tends to be the highest resist for most ships.
So anything BC and below sized ship with an AB or a mwd, will be able to speed tank it unless webbed, up close at current state, it will get mauled by many ships and a zealot even if after a change like that would still laugh at a cerb as he blows it to pieces.
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