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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
@ Pax Thar: There's nothing unfair about rolling a boosted ship against multiple targets. Check Garmon's vids and say it's unfair. Even against a single target, you die, you whine, and then you get on with it.
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
464
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote:@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
Missing the point. Tons of people had falcon alts and I'm sure there were people just like you saying "They'll never nerf falcons, it'll make people unsub their second accounts".
CCP aren't dumb enough to think short term alt subscriptions is better for their bottom line than long-term game balance. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
David Devant wrote:@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce. Falcon nerf. Nano nerf. Supercap nerfs. Deep safe spot nerfs. Incursion nerf. Anti-bot campaigns.
... Incarna.
CCP often does stuff that ticks off a large amount of people and their alts. Sometimes it even works. Some accounts may unsub, some characters may be biomassed or sold, but the game is better for everyone else who is left. This is especially preferable when the quitters are a very small minority. How much of the Eve population do you think has boosting alts?
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.
David Devant wrote:I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all. I fly command ships too, and I think it's utter bullshit that I can't be the tankiest thing ever, buff my fleet to be incredibly effective, and do damage at the same time. Come to think of it, why can't my Scimitar have weapons too? Maybe a doomsday or two? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1835
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
David Devant wrote:
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
No - actually, it has far less impact. A falcon alt used to be able to jam from 200+ km away, but still had to be on grid - was it lame due to being completely risk-free? Yes - but at least it was on grid. 'because of falcon' was in every second post on the forums. Yet it was less frecked up than current T3 boosters.
Using my porposal, it would still be more lame and involving less risk than using a falcon alt.
Quote: I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all.
I thought you multiboxed using your off-grid-booster alt?
Or did i mix things up and you solo in your off grid booster? Must be tremendously interesting and action-packed to fly...
In case you actually dual-box using your offgrid, you could also use your command ship on grid and fly a glass cannon on the other account, maybe? You know... morons. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
LCO, don't give a guy a hard time for liking to play with himself. Don't we all?
Well... CCP must not like it, which is why they want to make being a wanker so hard. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
My main has CS V tqvm. And unless you're FCing, CS are bad to fly and i can tell you that from extensive experience. You are essentially following people around and whoring killmails. Scimitars (dude above) are awesome fun to fly.
To be honest I could just as easily duel box with an on grid ship and it wouldn't make any difference. It's just convenient for me to have my alt in the same corp is all. Inb4 omg neutral boosters nerf plox.
PS. You are all fags.
PPS. As for the tart above calling me a wanker. I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. Hit me up in game. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2191
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Max Khaos wrote:They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol So you choose between boosting and deploying for rock crunching. I don't see why the rorq should get special treatment. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Max Khaos wrote:They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol So you choose between boosting and deploying for rock crunching. I don't see why the rorq should get special treatment. I think he was referring to safety, not to not getting to crunch rocks with his Rorqual. IIRC, deploying a Rorq works like sieging a dread. You wouldn't siege a dread without plenty of battleship support, so following Max's reasoning, you would need battleship support for Rorqual-supported mining fleets. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1835
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
David Devant wrote:My main has CS V tqvm. And unless you're FCing, CS are bad to fly and i can tell you that from extensive experience. You are essentially following people around and whoring killmails. Scimitars (dude above) are awesome fun to fly.
I have 2 characters with CS V (lacking information warfare skills on both - lol).
Do I fly them? ^No - an off-grid Tenfu offers better bonusses with less rsik and skill involved. You know... morons. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. I don't doubt it. Not only am I bad at PvP, but I also do not have boosts. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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Pax Thar
The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates
45
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:David Devant wrote:I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. I don't doubt it. Not only am I bad at PvP, but I also do not have boosts.
Boosts are required for solo pvp, havent you heard? No second acct no solo for you. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
526
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 23:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I have a booster alt and I like it. Sure it's given be the advantage in "1v1s" (boo hoo), but it's also given me the confidence to throw ships in to daft situations (and loose). T3s vastly broadened the envelope of possibility for solo and small gang warfare.
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll:
It does not open the possibilitys for solo. Using 2 ships in a fight is not solo any more than dual boxing 2 dps ships is solo. It looks like your solo on your killboard but your not.
As far as people unsubbing a second account I think ccp would gain accounts. No one really wants to sign up for "alts online." Having to dual box not only ruins the immersion it turns the game into a chore.
The offgrid boosters give such huge benefits its crazy. I am actually almost done with one myself so I can be competitive. I haven't used it yet but really I am dreading using it. Between alt scanning scouts, and alt boosters, this game is getting less and less fun.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 02:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kill eachother like civilized people. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.10 06:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think you'll like it Cearain seeing as you get ganked so often. To be fair to you people, I can see why you're pissed as you feel you have to pay 2x as much to be competitive in a 1v1. I just think that as the game currently stands this would make few vs many pvp a lot harder and encourage meat grinder nonsense. As for "you're not solo", I don't really care and would be happy for boosts to show on my mails, hence my quite publicly declaring this unpopular view. I just like good pvp, and what ever you say, boosts often do facilitate this. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba. |
Lugalzagezi666
53
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Posted - 2012.08.10 08:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba.
In ctrl-q case "blobs were blobing solo targets just fine long time before offgrid boosting" would be more appropriate. |
Whisperen
That's Not A Knife Flatline.
4
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Posted - 2012.08.10 08:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Of course you should be able to boost from inside a POS shield! If you do not like that advantage man up! Use the tools at your disposal and destroy the POS! This is just lazy people wanting the reward of limiting enemy boosters without the risk of getting a fleet together to take out a POS.
If your opponent is willing to take the risk and deploy infrastructure to gain a tactical advantage then that risk should be rewarded. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.10 09:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba. In ctrl-q case "blobs were blobing solo targets just fine long time before offgrid boosting" would be more appropriate.
Yeh Lugalz, your blob. Booya! |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
34
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Posted - 2012.08.10 10:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:Of course you should be able to boost from inside a POS shield! If you do not like that advantage man up! Use the tools at your disposal and destroy the POS! This is just lazy people wanting the reward of limiting enemy boosters without the risk of getting a fleet together to take out a POS.
If your opponent is willing to take the risk and deploy infrastructure to gain a tactical advantage then that risk should be rewarded.
Because obviously POS towers are hideously expensive, die immediately without inconvinient rf timers and most solar systems have only 1-2 moons where you can deploy such towers...
Note: The text above is written with a tongue firmly in the cheeck. |
Cellethen
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
14
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Posted - 2012.08.10 10:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. |
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Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Remove all off-grid boosting IMO. You want a ship to impact the fight, you put that **** in the fight. If you want the substantial advantages that gang links offer, that asset should be a viable target in the fight -- not an asset placed safely behind pos shields, or sitting in a safespot 50AU away. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
528
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I think you'll like it Cearain seeing as you get ganked so often. .
I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability.
But as a frequent solo pilot in faction war it would be nice if the blob wasn't quite so fast to catch up to me due to thier offgrid booster. And it would be nice if the blobs points didn't stretch so far and lock so fast due to thier off grid booster.
David Devant wrote: To be fair to you people, I can see why you're pissed as you feel you have to pay 2x as much to be competitive in a 1v1. I just think that as the game currently stands this would make few vs many pvp a lot harder and encourage meat grinder nonsense. .
As gangs get larger they are more likely to have off grid boosts. They tend to be much more serious than the small groups who just want to jump in a ship and shoot people.
David Devant wrote:As for "you're not solo", I don't really care and would be happy for boosts to show on my mails, hence my quite publicly declaring this unpopular view. I just like good pvp, and what ever you say, boosts often do facilitate this.
In theory I really do not mind the boosts. I do like the added layer they add to how you can fit your ship. I just hate the idea of having to dual box an alt. It turns eve into a chore and pvp is supposed to be the fun part of the game.
Give me a crew that I can buy that matches what a booster offers and I will be fine. I don't mind that it might cost more isk in the long run. (as long as it is not ridiculous - perhaps in line with tech 2 mods) I recomended that ccp just make different racial crews you can buy to match the racial boosts. They would die with the ship. They could add academies to pi or something.
Am I pissed that I have to pay 2xs as much to be competive in pvp? I guess its "pay to win" and I am sure lots of people are upset by that. But thats not really my issue. I am just not interested in playing "alts online." So until ccp either changes things or gives an alternative (like the crew option) I am not so thrilled with eve.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Karah Serrigan
The Hatchery Team Liquid
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cellethen wrote:Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. What you mean not at risk. Theres always the risk that someone probes you down. With that argumentation people shouldnt fly covops scouts, they contribute to the engagement by giving you intel but never decloak so no risk? And the same for titanbridges, the titan makes it possible, ergo contributes to the engagement but never leaves the pos which is 20j away. Whats with neutral orcas on highsec gates that scoop t3s and jump out? Whats with logis on a station? |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 15:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote:Cellethen wrote:Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. What you mean not at risk. Theres always the risk that someone probes you down. With that argumentation people shouldnt fly covops scouts, they contribute to the engagement by giving you intel but never decloak so no risk? And the same for titanbridges, the titan makes it possible, ergo contributes to the engagement but never leaves the pos which is 20j away. Whats with neutral orcas on highsec gates that scoop t3s and jump out? Whats with logis on a station? Titan bridges are terrible. Neutral orcas scooping t3s are terrible. Indefinite stealth invulnerability is terrible. There are a lot of really bad mechanics in EVE, designed by devs who either don't play or only play as part of nullbear alliances that won't fight a rifter without at least two full squads. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1393
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 16:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope.
The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue.
In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much.
On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc).
The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
189
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 18:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope. The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue. In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much. On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc). The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not.
Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1394
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
What questions?
How do you kill or counter a Loki that is sitting on a POS or station? How do I counter a Loki booster in hisec without getting Concorded? Is the neutral SuperDuperBooster99 in local a troll with a funny name, a Loki booster for the guys I'm about to fight, or an AFK Loki booster for someone who is away elsewhere?
If you see a Loki on scan, do you hold off and not fight for 10 minutes while you manage to scan it down, scout it out, and figure out whose it is, or figure out how to get it off the field? Additionally, do your targets just sit there dumbfounded, or do they kill you or simply leave during that time?
Or, more to the point: Could you exemplify how "scouting" can mitigate the near-complete safety that neutral off-grid boosters get? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope. The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue. In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much. On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc). The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not. Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
I am not interested in getting a "scanning alt" to counter the "booster alts" if that is what you mean.
But yeah scouting/roaming around for hours looking for something to kill is boring. Pretty much every aspect of eve pvp requires this, and its too bad. It would be nice if eve had some part of the game that had a bit faster paced pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
373
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
its pretty much mostly the T3s effect on boosting thats made this a problem, very hard to scan, covops, bubble immune fits (with probes too somtimes).
Remove t3s ability to do this and we all go back to CS boosts, which by their nature require a safe spot, logistic help or a pos to do their thing. I dont see theres anything wrong for a defender or prepared attacker to make a safe place for a CS and thats EVE all over.
Just jumping into any system with your scout t3, warping to a planet making an ss, warp to ss and put on links/eccm - job done. FAR to easy. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
215
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Offgrid boosting is a ******** mechanic only added to the game to enable more accounts and thus more artificial "playerbase" for income.
Offgrid boosting should be removed and only ongrid boosting should work. Then it would be fair and ok.
Now to be "leet pvper" you need to have a mandatory t3 booster shadowing you where ever you go... talk about a great and fun addition to the game.
If you want to think it the RP way ... How can you boost the fleets movement and other functions via extra computing power from a ship thats far away causing transmission delay on the data etc etc. Atleast when its ongrid it makes sense that the ship is providing boost via enhanced battlefield calculations etc etc. |
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