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Armeggeda iscariah
Ganja Labs Exodus.
24
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
So , after reading the CSM minutes (what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass.) I came across the ever so controversial topic of Offgrid links.
Now im a fan of offgrid boosting (Im a terribly spoiled Huginn pilot), but do i think its kinda OP ? Yeah. But the way the CSM/CCP is implying to fix offgrid boosting seems suprisingly stupid and uniformed. Mostly because it will give Huge scrubsec(nullsec) blobs a big advantage over the people who like to fly small gangs against the blobs, and their are allot Better ways we can fix offgrid boosting without nerfing it in such a stupid way. The simplest way i see to fix this is switch the bonus attributes on T3's to be what commandships have and vise versa. Even then this is kinda "Iffy". In all honesty Offgrid links aren't to broken/game breaking. There are a few situations where they are completely dumb. I.E Solo PvP with links (not really solo now is it?) And links that sit inside a POS. <--- kinda risk averse.
Little Snip from kugu.which was snipped From PL.com "Currentl-â, -+ff-grid boosting does need fixing, however not in the way that you are probably thinking.
-Pff-gr-ûd boosting in safespots in space should not be changed. These people can be caught by probing them downGÇÜ or slowl-â b-+okmarking your way to glory. I tihnk I have shown that it is possible with a decent investment (lg virtues) to catch off-grid boosting t3's. So I think that is fine.
However, boosting from a P-PS -ûs completely safe. There is no risk whatsoeverGÇÜ and it is literall-â imp-+ssible to counter. All that for a mere 400mil/month and a setup P-PS. It g-ûves the defender an incredible advantage and offers a strong incentive for the defender to never leave their home system. [...] I think that for someone to recieve gang bonuses, be it from a t3, a Titan, or even an industrial that the character who is boosting should be put at some risk of dying, ala boosting outside of a P-PS.
So, I would propose that gang mods not be allowed to be run from -ûnside of a POS."
So, In-light of what my opinions are what do you guys think ? And if Dev's give a **** to post (Not like you guys play your own game anyways so your uniformed as hell.) what do they think ? --------------------------------------He who dares , wins. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
449
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 06:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass
I loled, cos sadly it's true...
I agree, offgrid boosting should stay. I also agree that you shouldnt be able to boost from inside a POS. I dissagree that CS/T3 bonuses shou;d be swapped, the fact that you can't tank a boosting T3 at all makes up for it. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
145
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
i am using offgrid links ... mostly cheap BC or CS with skirmish mindlink and maxed skills on my alt. Got caught 5 times in last 7 months (mostly because I was concentrating on FCing ;) ).
Our Loki boosters got caught once or twice .... however they cost about ten times more then my drakes or canes.
So I dont see the problem here. Problem it is for null blobers, because they dont like to be harrashed by smaller gangs buzzing around them with boosted speed and picking weak and careless (I like it this way) .... so again CCP is saying : "We dont care about mid/small scale pvp we want blobsters - because" .... well there has to be some compensation behind this ;) IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Dread Operative
Justified Chaos
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 08:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Off grid boosting shouldnt work in a POS force field. That way there is at least a risk. |
Dread Operative
Justified Chaos
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 08:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Off grid boosting shouldnt work in a POS force field. That way there is at least a risk. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
487
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 09:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
I live in faction war lowsec. I'd say anywhere from a quarter to half of my kills every month are solo. There is a rather long list of of people I shouldn't engage and places I shouldn't go due to booster alts. If off grid boosting were removed I can say without a doubt, at least personally, that I would have many more targets to choose from. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
300
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 09:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote:what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass I loled, cos sadly it's true... I agree, offgrid boosting should stay. I also agree that you shouldnt be able to boost from inside a POS. I dissagree that CS/T3 bonuses shou;d be swapped, the fact that you can't tank a boosting T3 at all makes up for it.
You're third point is so wrong.
You can tank a T3 booster. T3 boosters are meant to have 1 link, not four. As with miners fit you ship correctly and stop bitching about its stats when you choose to fit it wrong. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
94
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 10:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
1. Off-grid boosting should be removed in general. 2. Boosting behind POS shields should also be removed. |
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
19
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Posted - 2012.08.09 10:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm in two minds, I don't like fighting people who are using 3 different sets of links, but I love scanning them down and killing them, and watching the tears in local. |
Lugalzagezi666
49
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Posted - 2012.08.09 11:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
For almost 3 years of using offgrid booster (around half of that time it was unprobeable) i never lost a single one. And the closest i get to lose one was when i forgot my alt on the gate while i was afk.
Honestly - if you know what are you doing, its almost impossible to lose, it requires almost 0 effort and it MASSIVELY boosts combat efficiency of whole your fleet.
This advantage you get is so big, that it should require significant effort, full attention and proper piloting of 1 person, not just occasional blinking on 1024x768 window somewhere in the corner of your screen.
The best thing ccp can do is remove offgrid boosting completely and limit the boosting range to 100-150k, possibly even less with "gangboosting range" role bonus for commands. |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
241
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Posted - 2012.08.09 11:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
It is not easy in the least to stick it to someone that doesn't want to be probed (sexual innuendo, best innuendo!) .. maxed skills, implants, CovOps and rigging just to be eligible .. then comes the actual probing part.
One problem with off-grid bonuses is that they force a very specific play as that CovOps is the only real counter to it .. a counter that is not "normally" found outside blob/fleet-fests (ie. low-sec/roams). Keeping status quo (or the stingy compromise of 'not in POS') and simply add even more mandatory 'alt required' mechanics ... more accounts, more dinero for CCP = good for game .. right? Another problem with off-grid bonuses is the magnitude. With the correct hull, implant and modules you are looking at amplifying a given groups performance by 50%+ which is staggeringly OP .. particularly since you have just the one above mentioned counter. Consider that we pay millions, even billions, to get just a few percentage points advantage on our individual ships by using bling .. links provide more than 10x (probably closer to 20x) that across an entire fleet (Ex. one ship with just one link magically transforms all T2 disruptors in the entire fleet into RF disruptors .. that is before commandship/T3 hull specific bonuses are even applied mind you). Yet another problem with off-grid bonuses is that they represent the most heinous of game design where one can influence events with no active participation, indeed without even being present.
CSM, being null-bears for the most part, are fully aware of the potential pitfalls of just moving them on-grid. Pretty sure there will be major changes/overhauls of both command's and T3's prior to or in conjunction with such a change .. they talk about ideas for changing both in the minutes as well by the way, let the lobbying begin!
My preferred solution is to make the bonuses range dependent to simulate the slight delay in C&C data. With a maximum range of say 400km, split into 5-6 range bands with bonuses decreasing the further away the links are from the action .. would be a massive server drain though as blob fights would force a bazillion calculations so 'meh' (I can live with on-grid and a maximum range (has to be included to account for Grid-fu scenarios)).
PS: Before the mining crowd finds this thread and starts moaning about not wanting to commit the Rorq to a belt .. get protection or use a regular command ship. The slightly lower bonuses still make your roids pop faster than not having bonuses at all. PPS: When change is made, give Carriers (not the super variety) a small link bonus (already have fitting bonus) so that they can be used in blobby weather when/if commands fail to do the job. |
Lea Sahara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 11:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
At the most basic level everything an off grid booster does is to disguise your true capabilities. In this regard it's not much different from being hotdropped by capitals, by a BO or titan bridged fleet or from getting blobbed by reinforcements one jump over. But unlike those things a booster will show up in local and often appear on d-scan. So an informed decision prior to engaging is quite possible oftentimes.
On the other hand they provide quite significant bonuses which can reach ridiculous levels compared to an unbonused ship. But then, so do HG pirate implants and booster pills.
In favor of those gang link boosters is that they enable smaller entities or "solo" pilots to engage blobs and gate camps. Which both are good things in my opinion. It promotes PvP and is what often leads to "gf"s in those scenarios.
I think overall they are a worthy addition to EVE though. They are expensive and fragile and to make the most use of them you have to prepare the battlefield beforehand, which costs time and makes you less flexible.
The only thing which I find somewhat bothersome is, that it is quite hard to scan down a well set up off grid T3. On the other hand they have to sacrifice a lot for that, are absolutely defenseless and extremely fragile. That they cost around 1b minimum with a well suited clone shouldn't be forgotten either.
Boosting should not be possible from within a POS field though as this negates pretty much every risk. There must at least be a chance to catch one if you are as well prepared as the booster itself is.
And lastly I think for big fleet engagements this whole topic is a non-issue. If you have the capacities to field super carriers and titans you should also have the capacities to bring your own boosters and well skilled and fit CovOps pilots. It's another tactical layer there. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
524
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 12:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:It is not easy in the least to stick it to someone that doesn't want to be probed (sexual innuendo, best innuendo!) .. maxed skills, implants, CovOps and rigging just to be eligible .. then comes the actual probing part. One problem with off-grid bonuses is that they force a very specific play as that CovOps is the only real counter to it .. a counter that is not "normally" found outside blob/fleet-fests (ie. low-sec/roams). Keeping status quo (or the stingy compromise of 'not in POS') and simply add even more mandatory 'alt required' mechanics ... more accounts, more dinero for CCP = good for game .. right? Another problem with off-grid bonuses is the magnitude. With the correct hull, implant and modules you are looking at amplifying a given groups performance by 50%+ which is staggeringly OP .. particularly since you have just the one above mentioned counter. Consider that we pay millions, even billions, to get just a few percentage points advantage on our individual ships by using bling .. links provide more than 10x (probably closer to 20x) that across an entire fleet (Ex. one ship with just one link magically transforms all T2 disruptors in the entire fleet into RF disruptors .. that is before commandship/T3 hull specific bonuses are even applied mind you). Yet another problem with off-grid bonuses is that they represent the most heinous of game design where one can influence events with no active participation, indeed without even being present..
I can't agree more. The response that people need to get an scanning alt to counter other peoples boosting alt is terrible. I hate dual boxing. Its pretty immersion breaking.
And before you say "get friends" Let me just say that anyone who wants to just scan on on their main without an alt must have brain damage. I will do it but its really boring and tedious play.
No off grid booster No boosting from inside a pos boosters show up on km. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lugalzagezi666
52
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Posted - 2012.08.09 12:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cearain wrote:boosters show up on km. + aggresion from boosted ships is transferred to a booster (OT : same needs to apply for logi reps and ships like orca or caps if they allow "docking" of agressed ship). |
Noisrevbus
183
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 13:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
This topic again? I'll give it the same reply i always do.
Remove the Command processor modules, almost every percieved abuse of- or malbalance in the system relate back to that one module. The module effectively handicap the ship that use it to do nothing but boost, while boost more.
I think alot of you ascribe more to the ability to stay off grid than what it has earnt. The problem is rather that doing so allow you to boost more, so people will explore those options well before they explore eligable alternatives. I don't mind that alts can carry out the role of a main, in part. I mind it, in case of boosting, when it has become more effective to use alts for it. Where alts will completely obscure the use of a main in the same role, and rear it's ugly head at other parts of the game (such as the market; look at mindlink pricing - it may have something to do with the decline of supply from L4, but it also have alot to do with demand, and risk-confident alts happily paying those sums while on-grid mains will think twice).
Remove that module and you will effectively cut the performance of exploitation (i mean it as cutting down rainforests, not as breaking rules) by a good two thirds, while positively directing the community toward on-grid use without removing the ability to run off-grid boosts for groups who lack manpower or utilize strategy that involve it.
In short, the problem is that off-grid boosting allow three times as many links on average thanks to the Command processor, not that it could exist as an option with equal boost performance but one less ship fullfilling additional roles on the grid. Prior to related issues, such as market splash-off, my groups always used to put at least some boosting on grid and utilize the benefit from the extra module slots you also get on grid. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
366
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 13:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Moving over to Command ships, CCP Ytterbium addressed the concern of off grid links and simply stated GÇ£off grid boosting should not existGÇ¥, with much of the CSM nodding in agreement. I am glad CCP Ytter and much of the CSM agree with my position. |
Ramon Sohei
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP Villore Accords
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 13:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
I do not think there is a problem with offgrid boosting. The problem is with unprobeable ships offgrid boosting like the Loki. |
Karah Serrigan
The Hatchery Team Liquid
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:This topic again? I'll give it the same reply i always do. Remove the Command processor modules, almost every percieved abuse of- or malbalance in the system relate back to that one module. The module effectively handicap the ship that use it to do nothing but boost, while boost more. I think alot of you ascribe more to the ability to stay off grid than what it has earnt. The problem is rather that doing so allow you to boost more, so people will explore those options well before they explore eligable alternatives. I don't mind that alts can carry out the role of a main, in part. I mind it, in case of boosting, when it has become more effective to use alts for it. Where alts will completely obscure the use of a main in the same role, and rear it's ugly head at other parts of the game (such as the market; look at mindlink pricing - it may have something to do with the decline of supply from L4, but it also have alot to do with demand, and risk-confident alts happily paying those sums while on-grid mains hesitate). Remove that module and you will effectively cut the performance of exploitation (i mean it as cutting down rainforests, not as breaking rules) by a good two thirds, while positively directing the community toward on-grid use without removing the ability to run off-grid boosts for groups who lack manpower or utilize strategy that involve it. In short, the problem is that off-grid boosting allow three times as many links on average thanks to the Command processor, not that it could exist as an option with equal boost performance but one less ship fullfilling additional roles on the grid. Prior to related issues, such as market splash-off, my groups always used to put at least some boosting on grid and utilize the benefit from the extra module slots you also get on grid. Removing off-grid boosting completely, or swapping bonuses between CS and Tech III will, as other people put it: only reinforce existing trends and popular gameplay (ie., feed the blob). I'm keen on Tech III as focus and CS as blanket. Remove Command processors (and seed mindlinks in the LP-stores) and you will endorse a balance between alts and mains as well as CS and Tech III, without once again massively disrupt balance between small- and large scale to kill off interaction between the two, and get less ships in space. Haven't you fed the blob enough Ytterbium? Bubble changes, etc. Sir, a fleet command ship can natively fit 3 links without the need for command processors. Removing command processors and you will have offgrid claymores linking instead of lokis, who the **** cares. The only difference is that you cant scout iwth them and will need a THIRD client for that role. |
Noisrevbus
183
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote: Sir, a fleet command ship can natively fit 3 links without the need for command processors. Removing command processors and you will have offgrid claymores linking instead of lokis, who the **** cares. The only difference is that you cant scout iwth them and will need a THIRD client for that role.
Miss, their boost amount is lower, they have larger sigs and no cloak or bubble interdiction.
Meanwhile Tech III will offer better boosts on fewer links and a more "covert" approach, letting (smaller-) more specialist gangs use their focused bonuses while larger groups more interested in just filling out the gaps use the clumsier option.
The only thing you need to adress then is wether we should allow links to flow through POS shield or not, assuming POS still have shields when CCP get around to adressing these issues (shields, CSM minutes etc.).
Once again, i don't see a problem in the fact that off-grid boosting exist - the problem is that it's an overblown superior option today.
Balance assumes within tolerable difference. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
227
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes boosting needs changing, I sold my booster so I don't really care how. Please don't do anything involving the words "on grid" I do not want to see people making 10,000km grids on every gate, station or POS they may want to fight with boosts on. Give them a 500km range or something, or whatever, just don't be dumb.
I find the posts complaining about it quite hilarious though, especially appearing on KMs / not being able to engage because of it. Don't delude yourselves that this will change the game massively, you'll still have something to complain about, eve isn't fair and never has been. I prefer boosters to the falcons of old and hope the new 'thing' wont be too intrusive.
The on KMs is particularly amusing, who cares? If you want you can do what some of the really awesome pilots do and just tag a "+booster alt" in the comments so that everyone who looks at the killmail can rest assured that you are a bad-ass PVPer who would never lose to someone who didn't cheat. |
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Zicon Shak'ra
Vacuo Anomalia
37
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Armeggeda iscariah wrote:So , after reading the CSM minutes (what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass.)
Stopped reading here. Wormholes are cool, m'kay? |
Griznatch
Xicron Syndicate Tus Network
156
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Posted - 2012.08.09 18:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Disallow links inside a pos and make the links increase sig radius when active: problem solved
next! I used to have a clever sig but I lost it. |
Max Khaos
PSK Industries Cascade Associates
10
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Posted - 2012.08.09 18:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol ------------- Insert Goon Tears Here ------------- |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1832
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Boosters should only work within e.g. an invisible 200 km radius bubble and be blocked by POS shields, otherwise, there would be too much messing around with Grid-Fu. You know... morons. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.09 20:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have a booster alt and I like it. Sure it's given be the advantage in "1v1s" (boo hoo), but it's also given me the confidence to throw ships in to daft situations (and loose). T3s vastly broadened the envelope of possibility for solo and small gang warfare.
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll: |
Karah Serrigan
The Hatchery Team Liquid
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 20:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Karah Serrigan wrote: Sir, a fleet command ship can natively fit 3 links without the need for command processors. Removing command processors and you will have offgrid claymores linking instead of lokis, who the **** cares. The only difference is that you cant scout iwth them and will need a THIRD client for that role.
Miss, their boost amount is lower, they have larger sigs and no cloak or bubble interdiction. Meanwhile Tech III will offer better boosts on fewer links and a more "covert" approach, letting (smaller-) more specialist gangs use their focused bonuses while larger groups more interested in just filling out the gaps use the clumsier option. The only thing you need to adress then is wether we should allow links to flow through POS shield or not, assuming POS still have shields when CCP get around to adressing these issues (shields, CSM minutes etc.). Once again, i don't see a problem in the fact that off-grid boosting exist - the problem is that it's an overblown superior option today. Balance assumes within tolerable difference.
The difference in boosting strength is neglectable. For comparison: The point range difference between loki and claymore links on an overheated rf point is 53.8->52.3. The speed difference on an ab tengu is 2664->2613 what sells for the t3 option is indeed the bubble interdiction and the cloak, so you can simultanously use it as a scout, albeit still being in danger of losing a 500m+ ship to a gatecamp. Removing command processor would make t3s not an option anymore. There is no balance between **** and not ****. Having only 1 link is a waste of a fleet boosting slot (no matter how big your fleet is, each member can only have up to 3 people boosting him). People would switch from lokis to claymores but still have them offgrid, however they would need yet another alt account for scouting in a covops, after all who wants to use a main for scouting :) |
Pax Thar
The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates
45
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I have a booster alt and I like it. Sure it's given be the advantage in "1v1s" (boo hoo), but it's also given me the confidence to throw ships in to daft situations (and loose). T3s vastly broadened the envelope of possibility for solo and small gang warfare.
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll:
An unfair adva.tage is unfair no matter how stupid you fly. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1833
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
David Devant wrote:
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll:
0/10
falcon nerf You know... morons. |
Karah Serrigan
The Hatchery Team Liquid
44
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pax Thar wrote:David Devant wrote:I have a booster alt and I like it. Sure it's given be the advantage in "1v1s" (boo hoo), but it's also given me the confidence to throw ships in to daft situations (and loose). T3s vastly broadened the envelope of possibility for solo and small gang warfare.
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll: An unfair adva.tage is unfair no matter how stupid you fly. Remove titan bridges then. How many people are using the titan on their main account and not just dual boxing it to bridge the fleet in? Unfair advantage is unfair. What, youre telling me people use it for logistics too? Lets make them suffer because one group uses it to blob small gangs. |
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
38
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
With the coming of ongrid boosting.
I recommend a significant tank buff and bonus changes to command ships.
Fleet commandships are meant to tank and give boosts, not to deal dps- wasted bonus that does not help its true role.
All command ships should have these bonuses: 5% tank resists, 10% tank hitpoints, 3-5% command bonus and then an additional 25-50% bonus to related gang bonuses to fleet.(just like titans)
Electronic superiority.
Eos: lose the drones and hybrid bonus. Eos will give 50-75% greater bonus to Tracking disruptor, ECM, Target Painters, Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking link, Remote ECCM, and Remote Sensor Booster effects to fleet members.
Siege Fortification.
Vulture: Lose the pointless double range bonus and give 25-50% greater Shield HP to fleet members.
Superior Mobility and Response.
Claymore: Lost the projectile weapon bonus and give 25-50% greater ship velocity to fleet members.
Armor Reinforcement.
Damnation: Lose the missile bonus and give 25-50% greater Armor HP to fleet members. |
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David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
@ Pax Thar: There's nothing unfair about rolling a boosted ship against multiple targets. Check Garmon's vids and say it's unfair. Even against a single target, you die, you whine, and then you get on with it.
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
464
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote:@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
Missing the point. Tons of people had falcon alts and I'm sure there were people just like you saying "They'll never nerf falcons, it'll make people unsub their second accounts".
CCP aren't dumb enough to think short term alt subscriptions is better for their bottom line than long-term game balance. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
David Devant wrote:@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce. Falcon nerf. Nano nerf. Supercap nerfs. Deep safe spot nerfs. Incursion nerf. Anti-bot campaigns.
... Incarna.
CCP often does stuff that ticks off a large amount of people and their alts. Sometimes it even works. Some accounts may unsub, some characters may be biomassed or sold, but the game is better for everyone else who is left. This is especially preferable when the quitters are a very small minority. How much of the Eve population do you think has boosting alts?
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.
David Devant wrote:I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all. I fly command ships too, and I think it's utter bullshit that I can't be the tankiest thing ever, buff my fleet to be incredibly effective, and do damage at the same time. Come to think of it, why can't my Scimitar have weapons too? Maybe a doomsday or two? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1835
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
David Devant wrote:
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
No - actually, it has far less impact. A falcon alt used to be able to jam from 200+ km away, but still had to be on grid - was it lame due to being completely risk-free? Yes - but at least it was on grid. 'because of falcon' was in every second post on the forums. Yet it was less frecked up than current T3 boosters.
Using my porposal, it would still be more lame and involving less risk than using a falcon alt.
Quote: I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all.
I thought you multiboxed using your off-grid-booster alt?
Or did i mix things up and you solo in your off grid booster? Must be tremendously interesting and action-packed to fly...
In case you actually dual-box using your offgrid, you could also use your command ship on grid and fly a glass cannon on the other account, maybe? You know... morons. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
LCO, don't give a guy a hard time for liking to play with himself. Don't we all?
Well... CCP must not like it, which is why they want to make being a wanker so hard. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
My main has CS V tqvm. And unless you're FCing, CS are bad to fly and i can tell you that from extensive experience. You are essentially following people around and whoring killmails. Scimitars (dude above) are awesome fun to fly.
To be honest I could just as easily duel box with an on grid ship and it wouldn't make any difference. It's just convenient for me to have my alt in the same corp is all. Inb4 omg neutral boosters nerf plox.
PS. You are all fags.
PPS. As for the tart above calling me a wanker. I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. Hit me up in game. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2191
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Max Khaos wrote:They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol So you choose between boosting and deploying for rock crunching. I don't see why the rorq should get special treatment. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Max Khaos wrote:They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol So you choose between boosting and deploying for rock crunching. I don't see why the rorq should get special treatment. I think he was referring to safety, not to not getting to crunch rocks with his Rorqual. IIRC, deploying a Rorq works like sieging a dread. You wouldn't siege a dread without plenty of battleship support, so following Max's reasoning, you would need battleship support for Rorqual-supported mining fleets. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1835
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
David Devant wrote:My main has CS V tqvm. And unless you're FCing, CS are bad to fly and i can tell you that from extensive experience. You are essentially following people around and whoring killmails. Scimitars (dude above) are awesome fun to fly.
I have 2 characters with CS V (lacking information warfare skills on both - lol).
Do I fly them? ^No - an off-grid Tenfu offers better bonusses with less rsik and skill involved. You know... morons. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. I don't doubt it. Not only am I bad at PvP, but I also do not have boosts. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
|
Pax Thar
The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:David Devant wrote:I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. I don't doubt it. Not only am I bad at PvP, but I also do not have boosts.
Boosts are required for solo pvp, havent you heard? No second acct no solo for you. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
526
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 23:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I have a booster alt and I like it. Sure it's given be the advantage in "1v1s" (boo hoo), but it's also given me the confidence to throw ships in to daft situations (and loose). T3s vastly broadened the envelope of possibility for solo and small gang warfare.
Regardless of how much you might disagree, you're all mental if you think CCP will remove off-grid boosters. "I know, let's make it so lots of people unsub their second account!" :eye roll:
It does not open the possibilitys for solo. Using 2 ships in a fight is not solo any more than dual boxing 2 dps ships is solo. It looks like your solo on your killboard but your not.
As far as people unsubbing a second account I think ccp would gain accounts. No one really wants to sign up for "alts online." Having to dual box not only ruins the immersion it turns the game into a chore.
The offgrid boosters give such huge benefits its crazy. I am actually almost done with one myself so I can be competitive. I haven't used it yet but really I am dreading using it. Between alt scanning scouts, and alt boosters, this game is getting less and less fun.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 02:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kill eachother like civilized people. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 06:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think you'll like it Cearain seeing as you get ganked so often. To be fair to you people, I can see why you're pissed as you feel you have to pay 2x as much to be competitive in a 1v1. I just think that as the game currently stands this would make few vs many pvp a lot harder and encourage meat grinder nonsense. As for "you're not solo", I don't really care and would be happy for boosts to show on my mails, hence my quite publicly declaring this unpopular view. I just like good pvp, and what ever you say, boosts often do facilitate this. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba. |
Lugalzagezi666
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba.
In ctrl-q case "blobs were blobing solo targets just fine long time before offgrid boosting" would be more appropriate. |
Whisperen
That's Not A Knife Flatline.
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Of course you should be able to boost from inside a POS shield! If you do not like that advantage man up! Use the tools at your disposal and destroy the POS! This is just lazy people wanting the reward of limiting enemy boosters without the risk of getting a fleet together to take out a POS.
If your opponent is willing to take the risk and deploy infrastructure to gain a tactical advantage then that risk should be rewarded. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 09:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Small gang roams were knocking around the blob a long time before T3 Boosts existed. It's gonna be ok Bubba. In ctrl-q case "blobs were blobing solo targets just fine long time before offgrid boosting" would be more appropriate.
Yeh Lugalz, your blob. Booya! |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 10:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:Of course you should be able to boost from inside a POS shield! If you do not like that advantage man up! Use the tools at your disposal and destroy the POS! This is just lazy people wanting the reward of limiting enemy boosters without the risk of getting a fleet together to take out a POS.
If your opponent is willing to take the risk and deploy infrastructure to gain a tactical advantage then that risk should be rewarded.
Because obviously POS towers are hideously expensive, die immediately without inconvinient rf timers and most solar systems have only 1-2 moons where you can deploy such towers...
Note: The text above is written with a tongue firmly in the cheeck. |
Cellethen
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 10:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. |
|
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Remove all off-grid boosting IMO. You want a ship to impact the fight, you put that **** in the fight. If you want the substantial advantages that gang links offer, that asset should be a viable target in the fight -- not an asset placed safely behind pos shields, or sitting in a safespot 50AU away. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
528
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I think you'll like it Cearain seeing as you get ganked so often. .
I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability.
But as a frequent solo pilot in faction war it would be nice if the blob wasn't quite so fast to catch up to me due to thier offgrid booster. And it would be nice if the blobs points didn't stretch so far and lock so fast due to thier off grid booster.
David Devant wrote: To be fair to you people, I can see why you're pissed as you feel you have to pay 2x as much to be competitive in a 1v1. I just think that as the game currently stands this would make few vs many pvp a lot harder and encourage meat grinder nonsense. .
As gangs get larger they are more likely to have off grid boosts. They tend to be much more serious than the small groups who just want to jump in a ship and shoot people.
David Devant wrote:As for "you're not solo", I don't really care and would be happy for boosts to show on my mails, hence my quite publicly declaring this unpopular view. I just like good pvp, and what ever you say, boosts often do facilitate this.
In theory I really do not mind the boosts. I do like the added layer they add to how you can fit your ship. I just hate the idea of having to dual box an alt. It turns eve into a chore and pvp is supposed to be the fun part of the game.
Give me a crew that I can buy that matches what a booster offers and I will be fine. I don't mind that it might cost more isk in the long run. (as long as it is not ridiculous - perhaps in line with tech 2 mods) I recomended that ccp just make different racial crews you can buy to match the racial boosts. They would die with the ship. They could add academies to pi or something.
Am I pissed that I have to pay 2xs as much to be competive in pvp? I guess its "pay to win" and I am sure lots of people are upset by that. But thats not really my issue. I am just not interested in playing "alts online." So until ccp either changes things or gives an alternative (like the crew option) I am not so thrilled with eve.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Karah Serrigan
The Hatchery Team Liquid
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cellethen wrote:Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. What you mean not at risk. Theres always the risk that someone probes you down. With that argumentation people shouldnt fly covops scouts, they contribute to the engagement by giving you intel but never decloak so no risk? And the same for titanbridges, the titan makes it possible, ergo contributes to the engagement but never leaves the pos which is 20j away. Whats with neutral orcas on highsec gates that scoop t3s and jump out? Whats with logis on a station? |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 15:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote:Cellethen wrote:Ships that are not at risk should not be contributing to an engagement. What you mean not at risk. Theres always the risk that someone probes you down. With that argumentation people shouldnt fly covops scouts, they contribute to the engagement by giving you intel but never decloak so no risk? And the same for titanbridges, the titan makes it possible, ergo contributes to the engagement but never leaves the pos which is 20j away. Whats with neutral orcas on highsec gates that scoop t3s and jump out? Whats with logis on a station? Titan bridges are terrible. Neutral orcas scooping t3s are terrible. Indefinite stealth invulnerability is terrible. There are a lot of really bad mechanics in EVE, designed by devs who either don't play or only play as part of nullbear alliances that won't fight a rifter without at least two full squads. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1393
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 16:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope.
The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue.
In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much.
On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc).
The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
189
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 18:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope. The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue. In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much. On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc). The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not.
Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1394
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
What questions?
How do you kill or counter a Loki that is sitting on a POS or station? How do I counter a Loki booster in hisec without getting Concorded? Is the neutral SuperDuperBooster99 in local a troll with a funny name, a Loki booster for the guys I'm about to fight, or an AFK Loki booster for someone who is away elsewhere?
If you see a Loki on scan, do you hold off and not fight for 10 minutes while you manage to scan it down, scout it out, and figure out whose it is, or figure out how to get it off the field? Additionally, do your targets just sit there dumbfounded, or do they kill you or simply leave during that time?
Or, more to the point: Could you exemplify how "scouting" can mitigate the near-complete safety that neutral off-grid boosters get? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Cearain wrote:I don't mind the ganks. Minmatar need to feel good about themselves and if ganks are all they can achieve in pvp that is ok. Goals should accord with ability. As an evil blobbing Minmatar, I should point out that I have never, ever, ever been blobbed by [I.LAW]. Ever. Nope. The "but it can be probed down" excuse that offgrid boosts are balanced is on even worse footing than the "but you can fit ECCM" excuse that ECM is balanced in small gangs. In a small gang, particularly of sub-BC ships with limited slots/fittings, you can't afford to gimp every ship by fitting ECCM to it just in the event you run into a Falcon. That is, with the chance that the Falcon will jam you anyway, because ECM is the only ewar which can't be completely mitigated by flying better. But that's another issue. In the same way, you can't afford to sacrifice one of your higher-skilled and richer pilots (for a covops ship, great scanning skills, and a Virtue set) just in the event that he maybe might be able to probe down that neutral Loki... which might just warp away. In large engagements/fleets, it's completely reasonable. In smaller ones, not so much. On top of that, this doesn't even take into account:
- Boosting from a POS
- Boosting from a station
- Boosting from a gate - particularly if equipped with MWD/Cloak
- Neutral boosting in hisec - try countering that one
- Neutral boosting in lowsec - whose booster is that? Is it just an AFK guy in a POS?
- Cloak-MWD trick elsewhere in space, or just covert T3; maybe toss in interdiction-nullified in there.
- So many people in system that you can't reliably tell whose booster it is
Or any number of ways that mitigate the risk of being scanned down, on top of making your boosting ship incredibly hard to scan down (via sensor strength, etc). The only other thing as safe as this is neutral scouting - which is actually just a subset of the roles that an offgrid boosting alt can fulfill. Neutral scouting is balanced. Offgrid boosting is not. Most of these questions can be solved by proper scouting and intel cathering. You are one of those who want that CCP does all scouting for you.
I am not interested in getting a "scanning alt" to counter the "booster alts" if that is what you mean.
But yeah scouting/roaming around for hours looking for something to kill is boring. Pretty much every aspect of eve pvp requires this, and its too bad. It would be nice if eve had some part of the game that had a bit faster paced pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
373
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
its pretty much mostly the T3s effect on boosting thats made this a problem, very hard to scan, covops, bubble immune fits (with probes too somtimes).
Remove t3s ability to do this and we all go back to CS boosts, which by their nature require a safe spot, logistic help or a pos to do their thing. I dont see theres anything wrong for a defender or prepared attacker to make a safe place for a CS and thats EVE all over.
Just jumping into any system with your scout t3, warping to a planet making an ss, warp to ss and put on links/eccm - job done. FAR to easy. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
215
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Offgrid boosting is a ******** mechanic only added to the game to enable more accounts and thus more artificial "playerbase" for income.
Offgrid boosting should be removed and only ongrid boosting should work. Then it would be fair and ok.
Now to be "leet pvper" you need to have a mandatory t3 booster shadowing you where ever you go... talk about a great and fun addition to the game.
If you want to think it the RP way ... How can you boost the fleets movement and other functions via extra computing power from a ship thats far away causing transmission delay on the data etc etc. Atleast when its ongrid it makes sense that the ship is providing boost via enhanced battlefield calculations etc etc. |
|
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
375
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
if CS and T3 got a PERSONNEL bonus to the links they were providing on grid, that might be pretty cool and actually make pilots want to fly them on the pvp combat grid!
Some some sort of perk like that could be interesting, while something can be done on an alt, will be done on an alt. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Noisrevbus
187
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 12:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote: The difference in boosting strength is neglectable. For comparison: The point range difference between loki and claymore links on an overheated rf point is 53.8->52.3. The speed difference on an ab tengu is 2664->2613 what sells for the t3 option is indeed the bubble interdiction and the cloak, so you can simultanously use it as a scout, albeit still being in danger of losing a 500m+ ship to a gatecamp. Removing command processor would make t3s not an option anymore. There is no balance between **** and not ****. Having only 1 link is a waste of a fleet boosting slot (no matter how big your fleet is, each member can only have up to 3 people boosting him). People would switch from lokis to claymores but still have them offgrid, however they would need yet another alt account for scouting in a covops, after all who wants to use a main for scouting :)
Personally, i really dont see where all this hate is coming from. Sure some people use it to reduce the risk of dying and make 1on1s frustrating. Other people use 200km scorpions and orcas on a gate for their gatecamps. EVE isnt fair. Links allow small gangs to effectively dance around big gangs and pick off targets, but its not like there is no counter to that. Why do they have to suffer because someone felt betrayed when he lost his assault frigate in a 1on1 to a boosted frigate?
Once again, the answer to the issues you raise can already be found in my prior posts.
I don't wye for the destruction of anything, and the "fairness" of links is only a minor concern in my book. I simply want to see a better balance (shifting of details into more tolerable differences).
As it stand, regular boosting is falling into obscurity. That's my concern. The CP module enable handicapped ships that are better than standard setups at boosting, so they will be used.
The result is:
Malbalance between Off-grid and On-grid. Malbalance between Tech III and CS. Malbalance between Alts and Mains.
I see no problem in the existance of Off-grid, Tech III, Alts - i see a problem in how they are simply better.
I want to see all of them eligable options and as such see performance closer together.
I disagree with the notion that removing the module would somehow cause Tech III not to be an option.
I want to see mains used as scouts, at least as much as alts . |
Silence iKillYouu
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 13:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
why nerf titans even more? http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
I see no problem in the mechanics as they stand. Anyone can train their main or alt to fly a boosting tech3 alt. I personally don't solo with a boosting alt however I've come across many people that do and I have no problem with it. So many people whining about mechanics and not facilitating their own remedy.
Just train your own alt. If you cant afford a second account then fly with someone that does, or get someone in gang that flies a Cs. Really guys is not that hard. yes fighting against ecm sucks but hey it's part of the game, adapt. It's called a challenge. Instead of trying to probe the booster why not probe the ship being boosted like a tengu or whatever and land on him in a rapier.
There are plenty of options but I understanding bitching and moaning for CCP to change the mechanics is the easiest one for you "lazy, whiny, unimaginative pvp'ers", so forget about adapting,forget about changing tactics, lets just change the game. I think it's sad that eve has come to this. What we should be changing is Eve online's name to "Nerfing Sapceships for Whiny Bad Pvp'ers Online". |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
386
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Get on grid with your boosts or lose them. The only thing that should be able to off grid boost is a Roq. |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
156
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Schalac wrote:The only thing that should be able to off grid boost is a Roq.
Nope
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
545
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me.
Preferably both. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:13:00 -
[69] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me.
I like that idea!! All miner kill mails should also include all other alts on that account, and destroy whatever ship those offline alts are currently in!!
Awesome idea!! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
387
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:16:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me. I like that idea!! All miner kill mails should also include all other alts on that account, and destroy whatever ship those offline alts are currently in!! Awesome idea!! Let me guess. Your main's killboard is padded with off-grid boosts. |
|
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me. I like that idea!! All miner kill mails should also include all other alts on that account, and destroy whatever ship those offline alts are currently in!! Awesome idea!! Let me guess. Your main's killboard is padded with off-grid boosts.
Personally I don't give a whit about off-grid boosting. But you sound mad... ;-) |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
I wonder how long people are going to herp and derp around before they realize that the "EVE isn't fair!" party line isn't actually a sound argument and in no way shape or form justifies imbalanced game mechanics.
The fact is EVE is a game about risk and reward. Right now the reward-to-risk ratio for off-grid boosting is broken. It's about time CCP fixed it and added real risk to boosting. Rabble Rabble!! Don't mind me. I just enjoy crapping all over the forums and laughing at the people who take it too seriously. |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
156
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Either get rid of off-grid boosters, or put them on killmails. Either way is fine with me. I like that idea!! All miner kill mails should also include all other alts on that account, and destroy whatever ship those offline alts are currently in!! Awesome idea!! Let me guess. Your main's killboard is padded with off-grid boosts.
Meh don't see anything wrong with someone bring boosts to a fight just like there is nothing wrong with bring 1000 dudes to kill 1 guy.
|
Whisperen
That's Not A Knife Flatline.
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP has nerfed offgrid pos boosters already they buffed barges and are introducing alchemy which in turn will drop dread prices. So pos boosters are nerfed all you have to do is organize yourselves but i guess whining on the forums is easier. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 23:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Meh don't see anything wrong with someone bring boosts to a fight just like there is nothing wrong with bring 1000 dudes to kill 1 guy.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's a serious pu$$y move, but whatever gives you that tickle in yer pants. |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 23:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:For almost 3 years of using offgrid booster (around half of that time it was unprobeable) i never lost a single one. And the closest i get to lose one was when i forgot my alt on the gate while i was afk.
Honestly - if you know what are you doing, its almost impossible to lose, it requires almost 0 effort and it MASSIVELY boosts combat efficiency of whole your fleet.
This advantage you get is so big, that it should require significant effort, full attention and proper piloting of 1 person, not just occasional blinking on 1024x768 window somewhere in the corner of your screen.
The best thing ccp can do is remove offgrid boosting completely and limit the boosting range to 100-150k, possibly even less with "gangboosting range" role bonus for commands.
I kinda agree with you, but find a way to make flying a booster ship fun and we'll talk. |
Cap James Tkirk
Gung-HO Guns Moon Warriors
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 23:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
I wonder if any major wars will be faught fairly where the obvious side with more advantages that took the time to prime and setup will just say **** it i know you guys are not as prepared as us so we will just lay down all our weapons and options and try going kung-fu on that ass while u keep your guns in tote we dont want to be unfair in this war so you have guns we have fist now lets fight
war is never fair so as many people have said adapt or die welcome to life (adapting is a humans specialty look into it)
if you cannot fight a war where one side has an advantage do not fight that war move along and stop whining you making the PVE commuinity look hardcore |
Dan Carter Murray
75
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
David Devant wrote:My main has CS V tqvm. And unless you're FCing, CS are bad to fly and i can tell you that from extensive experience. You are essentially following people around and whoring killmails. Scimitars (dude above) are awesome fun to fly.
To be honest I could just as easily duel box with an on grid ship and it wouldn't make any difference. It's just convenient for me to have my alt in the same corp is all. Inb4 omg neutral boosters nerf plox.
PS. You are all fags.
PPS. As for the tart above calling me a wanker. I will hand you your arse any day of the week mate. Hit me up in game.
+booster
HAHAHAHAHAHA I COULDN'T RESIST |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
102
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 08:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:its pretty much mostly the T3s effect on boosting thats made this a problem, very hard to scan, covops, bubble immune fits (with probes too somtimes).
Remove t3s ability to do this and we all go back to CS boosts, which by their nature require a safe spot, logistic help or a pos to do their thing. I dont see theres anything wrong for a defender or prepared attacker to make a safe place for a CS and thats EVE all over.
Just jumping into any system with your scout t3, warping to a planet making an ss, warp to ss and put on links/eccm - job done. FAR to easy.
I'm very surprised you have this view as your corp is currently using upto 3 offgrid boosters in Auga, I know RTS has 2 all to himself and still smacks of "Soloing people"
Which in turn has made me think I need one as well to compete and this mentality has lead to this booster crazyness.
All ongrid boosting needs a Buff and offgrid a nerf **Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:CCP has nerfed offgrid pos boosters already they buffed barges and are introducing alchemy which in turn will drop dread prices. So pos boosters are nerfed all you have to do is organize yourselves but i guess whining on the forums is easier. I have no idea how your are trying to swing barge boosts into this argument.... But yes. I agree that bringing a few dreads to kill the POS that that the offgrid booster is sitting in would work. At the same time though I have a totally competent leadership alt that has all relevant skills to 5 for a few hundred man fleet to gain boosts off of and never once have I thought "I'm just going to keep him off grid" . . . That is how pussies play. Offgrid boosting is the epitome of sad. Probers, ok. Boosters... eheh.
If you wants the boosts, put them on grid to be blown up just like everything else. If you are to scared to do that or to weak too then go back to WOW. Boosts should be on grid. |
|
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:11:00 -
[81] - Quote
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Whisperen wrote:CCP has nerfed offgrid pos boosters already they buffed barges and are introducing alchemy which in turn will drop dread prices. So pos boosters are nerfed all you have to do is organize yourselves but i guess whining on the forums is easier. I have no idea how your are trying to swing barge boosts into this argument.... But yes. I agree that bringing a few dreads to kill the POS that that the offgrid booster is sitting in would work. At the same time though I have a totally competent leadership alt that has all relevant skills to 5 for a few hundred man fleet to gain boosts off of and never once have I thought "I'm just going to keep him off grid" . . . That is how pussies play. Offgrid boosting is the epitome of sad. Probers, ok. Boosters... eheh. If you wants the boosts, put them on grid to be blown up just like everything else. If you are to scared to do that or to weak too then go back to WOW. Boosts should be on grid.
Your KB is negative and you are telling people to go back to WOW?
Off grid boosters die all the time, stop being lazy and learn how to probe. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.
100% yes.
|
Rezig Huruta
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.
I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge? |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 17:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
They might, and that's the point. People should stop whining and utilize the tactics available instead of trying to eliminate them because they don't, won't or can't . |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 17:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Rezig Huruta wrote:Vytone wrote:Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp. I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge?
Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.
That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy. |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 17:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Rezig Huruta wrote:Vytone wrote:Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp. I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge? Quote:Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.
That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy.
I think they work as intended I see no reason to limit anything. Every gang has equal opportunity, but it comes down to being prepared. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Rezig Huruta wrote:Vytone wrote:Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"
Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.
In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp. I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge? Quote:Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.
That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy. I think they work as intended I see no reason to limit anything. Every gang has equal opportunity, but it comes down to being prepared.
I think it would be better if T3s are limited to small gangs, so that the command ship pilots actually get something to do, and they start boosting for a large gang instead of the large gang having a T3. |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
I agree that Command ships should be used more but I think it should get buffed in a way that people that have mains that fly them perfectly like i can, would want to use them without knowing it will die horribly.
If the t3 will be limited to a certain number, i think that number should be somewhere in the 20-30 range. And then buff the crap out the command ships to make then worthwhile.
Information warfare could use an overhaul for sure, maybe they should concentrate on making useless stuff useful instead of making useful stuff useless. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
506
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
"It's going to ruin small group PvP." Where have I heard that before? The nano nerf. The Falcon nerf. In fact I hear that argument just about any time somebody's way of playing is threatened with change. And the gloomy prediction doesn't come true. Small group and solo PvP is still alive. A good FC with hardened bastards behind him who know their ships inside and out will always have an advantage.
Hell, T3 boosts haven't always been here. There was PvP before them. |
|
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:55:00 -
[92] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:"It's going to ruin small group PvP." Where have I heard that before? The nano nerf. The Falcon nerf. In fact I hear that argument just about any time somebody's way of playing is threatened with change. And the gloomy prediction doesn't come true. Small group and solo PvP is still alive. A good FC with hardened bastards behind him who know their ships inside and out will always have an advantage.
Hell, T3 boosts haven't always been here. There was PvP before them.
The nano nerf did screw small gang pvp over?
What are you talking about?
Small gang pvp now is nothing like it was before the nano nerf.
Small group pvp is alive... but it sucks, and it will suck even more with this OGB nerf.
Soon, the only way to fight is to have 20 friends with you everywhere you go and that is not how I'd like to play the game at all.
Vytone wrote:Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life.
This. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
506
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:06:00 -
[93] - Quote
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left. |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
I'm not the one whining fella, its the ones clamoring for the removal of offgrid boosters. Get it straight. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.
"I'm so l33t and experienced. I'm chestbeating so I can call you a whiner. " |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
506
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 20:00:00 -
[96] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left. "I'm so l33t and experienced. I'm chestbeating so I can call you a whiner. "
I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind. Or do you need 20 friends to help you do that too? |
Lili Lu
339
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 21:59:00 -
[97] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left. +1
Off-grid boosting is simply ********. You want those buffs? they should be on the field and at risk just like everything else that will affect the outcome. It works for both sides. No stashing a booster at a pos or at a ss running eccm.
And finally the command ships will regain their rightful place as the best boosters. The age of the T3 bubble immune cov ops warping etc booster will be over. Frankly it is taking too long, and has been here too long.
Oh yeah, preemptive "I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind." as well. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
557
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 22:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vytone wrote:They might, and that's the point. People should stop whining and utilize the tactics available instead of trying to eliminate them because they don't, won't or can't . And back to your question about the bigger gang having boosts, it happens to us all the time, but we still will usually take the fight, and find a way to be competitive.
That makes no sense. Then just make all the ships faster and have longer point ranges etc.
Vytone wrote: Now imagine for a moment we didn't have our boosts, we would be effectively rofflestomped. And then I would be all over the forums crying about bigger gangs using offgrid boosters. Nope not gonna happen. Adapt, diversify, change tactics because the battlefield is an ever changing environment.
You forgot, get your own alt and dual box the game alts online. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
557
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 22:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life.
If your big concern is blobs why are you in null sec? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 22:09:00 -
[100] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left. +1 Off-grid boosting is simply ********. You want those buffs? they should be on the field and at risk just like everything else that will affect the outcome. It works for both sides. No stashing a booster at a pos or at a ss running eccm. And finally the command ships will regain their rightful place as the best boosters. The age of the T3 bubble immune cov ops warping etc booster will be over. Frankly it is taking too long, and has been here too long. Oh yeah, preemptive "I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind." as well.
Yet another misinformed post.
Stop assuming that OGBs are perfectly safe, because they are not. They are at risk just like anything else. Stop being lazy and learn to probe.
When T3s are limited to only boosting 5 people the command ships can do their jobs of boosting fleets.
|
|
Esk Esme
Far From Sober
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 22:22:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nothing wrong with ogb tbh and takes alot comitment to make one
13.5msp leadership maxed 2-4msp for cruser 5 fir each race t3 and more for cs
and easy a bill per ship plus mindlinks and implants
thats fair bit of comitment for avrage pvper to invest so they and they buddys can match others that do the same
Would we get all this sp bck if nurfed coz thats a few months of sub cash wasted for alot ppl who have invested time rl money and effort to provide ogb for theyer wingmen
my spelling sux no i aint useing google or any other spell check sue me |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 01:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
I just spent the last ~6 months or so maxing out my main character to fleet boost my pvp alt. That's 6 months of paying for an account to train skills that added nothing to that character's abilities. IF off grid boosting was nerfed, I would seriously hope they would offer reimbursement. Many people are going to be pissed off about all of the effort they put into obtaining these characters if they are suddenly made far less useful.
If people would just put in a little of their own effort they could easily obtain their own fleet booster, but instead they opt to cry on the forums. Why is that? Oh, that's right...because it takes a massive amount of time, isk, resources, and effort to obtain and continue to use a fleet booster. If it did not, they would already have one. Just save the rivoting tale about how you are "too honorable" to use a fleet booster and that's why you don't..
|
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 01:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:I just spent the last ~6 months or so maxing out my main character to fleet boost my pvp alt. That's 6 months of paying for an account to train skills that added nothing to that character's abilities. IF off grid boosting was nerfed, I would seriously hope they would offer reimbursement. Many people are going to be pissed off about all of the effort they put into obtaining these characters if they are suddenly made far less useful.
If people would just put in a little of their own effort they could easily obtain their own fleet booster, but instead they opt to cry on the forums. Why is that? Oh, that's right...because it takes a massive amount of time, isk, resources, and effort to obtain and continue to use a fleet booster. If it did not, they would already have one. Just save the rivoting tale about how you are "too honorable" to use a fleet booster and that's why you don't..
Or they could just train to probe to find said fleet boosters and kill them.
But the problem of lazy and uncreative get in the way. |
Lili Lu
340
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 04:59:00 -
[104] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote: Or they could just train to probe to find said fleet boosters and kill them.
But the problem of lazy and uncreative get in the way. Yes, hold on good sir while I send my probing alt after your boosting alt then we can honorably duel. After all if I don't parlay for this opportunity to probe your booster alt I will be guilty of being lazy.
Off-grid boosting is still a ******** mechanic. It was ******** before tech III and became even more so after tech III.
I fly commands. I want them on grid. To be part of the battle. Not to become an alt account you sneak into a system and ss etc. or sit at a pos. It's more fun flying a logi anyway, but anything beats getting told to safe up and run links without seeing the battle.
As for "but they can get probed ~~" Difficult to do and anyway, so what. They are not getting shot at, neuted, bubbled, pointed or being part of the battle. Yet they are having a major impact on that battle. It is just stupid the way it has been since tech III command subsystem came into the game.
As for Nosrevibus's solution I can agree that command processors should be removed from the game. Removing the command processor will make more people train leadership and fill roles that formerly might only be filled by one ridiculous fit. That is a good thing. But I don't agree that that module is the source of the blob problem. People simply blob. They will blob with a new booster structure, i.e more booster ships within the fleet. Taking away the one uber booster ship will not end the blob.
edit- and lol at but but then you must reimburse me for training an alt to do only this off-grid boosting. the game changes. supercarriers no longer squash everything. supercarrier pilots not worthy of sp reimbursement and neither is a boosting tech III alt. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 05:14:00 -
[105] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Diesel47 wrote: Or they could just train to probe to find said fleet boosters and kill them.
But the problem of lazy and uncreative get in the way. Yes, hold on good sir while I send my probing alt after your boosting alt then we can honorably duel. After all if I don't parlay for this opportunity to probe your booster alt I will be guilty of being lazy. Off-grid boosting is still a ******** mechanic. It was ******** before tech III and became even more so after tech III. I fly commands. I want them on grid. To be part of the battle. Not to become an alt account you sneak into a system and ss etc. or sit at a pos. It's more fun flying a logi anyway, but anything beats getting told to safe up and run links without seeing the battle. As for "but they can get probed ~~" Difficult to do and anyway, so what. They are not getting shot at, neuted, bubbled, pointed or being part of the battle. Yet they are having a major impact on that battle. It is just stupid the way it has been since tech III command subsystem came into the game. As for Nosrevibus's solution I can agree that command processors should be removed from the game. Removing the command processor will make more people train leadership and fill roles that formerly might only be filled by one ridiculous fit. That is a good thing. But I don't agree that that module is the source of the blob problem. People simply blob. They will blob with a new booster structure, i.e more booster ships within the fleet. Taking away the one uber booster ship will not end the blob. edit- and lol at but but then you must reimburse me for training an alt to do only this off-grid boosting. the game changes. supercarriers no longer squash everything. supercarrier pilots not worthy of sp reimbursement and neither is a boosting tech III alt. CCP did not sign a contract to preserve your exploitation (i.e. not exploiting) of a flawed game mechanic. When they fix what they made to function as they wish it to you can stomp off in a huff or live with it.
You got it backwards. Taking away the "uber boosting ship" will help blobbing, not hurt it. Blobs would love for all boosting to be on-grid.
Because now blobs will have command ships that will roflstomp anything else trying to fight them, small gangs, solo pilots whatever... And these people getting roflstomped have no way to have their own boosters.
So they outnumber everybody and they also out maneuver, out tank, out point, and all the other goodies that gang links provide.
Great idea, at least with OGBs a sneaky group of ******* can stick it to the man and kill the Blob's OGB in a SS if they are good probers. POSes are losing their shield so there won't be any POS boosting going on anymore. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 15:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote: Because now blobs will have command ships that will roflstomp anything else trying to fight them, small gangs, solo pilots whatever... And these people getting roflstomped have no way to have their own boosters.
Because fitting gang links to your other ships is forbidden ? Because Claymores and Lokis are terrible kiting ships ? Why ? |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
96
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 16:22:00 -
[107] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Diesel47 wrote: Because now blobs will have command ships that will roflstomp anything else trying to fight them, small gangs, solo pilots whatever... And these people getting roflstomped have no way to have their own boosters.
Because fitting gang links to your other ships is forbidden ? Because Claymores and Lokis are terrible kiting ships ? Why ?
Lokis and Claymores are really expensive ships to be flying around on every roam you go. Not everybody can afford to constantly have these ships in small gangs.. Because keep in mind that small gangs have a VERY low survivability rate. You go out and you hope that the stars align and you get dealt a good hand so you can do something out there, especially in 0.0.
With the T3 booster, you are a bit safer. Atleast you will be losing something like a hurricane or a drake if things go badly..
But I'm not saying that a T3 booster is completely safe. The time will come when your T3 gets scanned down and killed. But that is alot better than losing a Loki or Claymore every single time a roam goes bad. Like I keep saying, it is an overall nerf to small gang warfare. Basically if you want to fight a well prepared blob, you will need to bring 400mil plus ships to the battle. How is that even possible for the average PvPer to fund? I can barely fund flying BCs, yet alone CS and T3s. |
Noisrevbus
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:27:00 -
[108] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote:Nothing wrong with ogb tbh and takes alot comitment to make one
13.5msp leadership maxed 2-4msp for cruser 5 fir each race t3 and more for cs
and easy a bill per ship plus mindlinks and implants
thats fair bit of comitment for avrage pvper to invest so they and they buddys can match others that do the same
Would we get all this sp bck if nurfed coz thats a few months of sub cash wasted for alot ppl who have invested time rl money and effort to provide ogb for theyer wingmen
my spelling sux no i aint useing google or any other spell check sue me
Now, let's assume that you are a 40m SP main, and those 20m SP are part of your skillset.
You can fly a trilink CS and be useful on grid, or you can fly a onelink Tech III and also be useful on grid.
Mind you, i have seen groups who do that and put them to good use.
However, letting your or anyone elses random 20m SP alt take over that role is more powerful and will as such continue to profile. Should the mains get their SP back then, as you suggest for the alts?
Those alts not on grid that will gladly pay 300 or 500m for the ship and another 200m for the mindlinks, to keep the demand up and faucet that style of gameplay in the same manner Supers were considered a problem a while back.
Don't get me wrong, i still don't see a problem with "OGB" as an option - it just need not be a superior one. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 23:11:00 -
[109] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote: I, just like some of you, am torn between questions revolving around "the greater good".
The rest was a meaningful post, I just wanted to respond to this part and say that CCP has been servicing large alliances and huge fleets for a long time now. It just makes me sick to see the whole deal with OGBs turning out to be another win for the blobs.
Its about time they realized that not everybody likes to fly in 40 man fleets and actually think about their game balance. |
Tess La'Coil
Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 23:15:00 -
[110] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Max Khaos wrote:They only ship that should be aloud to off grid boost is the Rorqual. Deployed mode in a belt = lol So you choose between boosting and deploying for rock crunching. I don't see why the rorq should get special treatment. I think he was referring to safety, not to not getting to crunch rocks with his Rorqual. IIRC, deploying a Rorq works like sieging a dread. You wouldn't siege a dread without plenty of battleship support, so following Max's reasoning, you would need battleship support for Rorqual-supported mining fleets.
The use of a siege/triage/industrial core is nothing like a ganglink..
The ganglinks give additional boosts, the siege/triage/industrial core only activate a function. Other than a little safety there is no reason not to sit a rorq in your hidden belt providing gang links, if your using the industrial core in a belt you're very bad. Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á |
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Flair Tachyon
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 00:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tess La'Coil wrote:The use of a siege/triage/industrial core is nothing like a ganglink..
The ganglinks give additional boosts, the siege/triage/industrial core only activate a function. Other than a little safety there is no reason not to sit a rorq in your hidden belt providing gang links, if your using the industrial core in a belt you're very bad.
The reason they always mention the industrial core is because the Rorqual only gives it-¦s higher leadership bonus when in deployed mode. Undeployed it only has unbonused links.
|
whaynethepain
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 08:18:00 -
[112] - Quote
Unfortunately the grid is far too small and unstable to be able to do it any other way, scatter a few wrecks and bubbles about and it goes skew-width.
The warfare mods not working in a pos makes sense, after all, other weapon mods are infective in a pos.
Perhaps it's not a weapon system in definition, dunno.
TIII ships seem better than TII ships, quite versatile. So I have no comment on the boosting Loki thing. Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 08:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:39:00 -
[114] - Quote
Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it.
Why so emotional?
" **** you " isn't a valid argument. |
Scott PiIgrim
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:04:00 -
[115] - Quote
If the booster is not on the same grid, you should not get any boost. On the other hand, theres nothing wrong with the booster beeing cloaked on grid... |
Cap James Tkirk
The Nommo
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:08:00 -
[116] - Quote
Scott PiIgrim wrote:If the booster is not on the same grid, you should not get any boost. On the other hand, theres nothing wrong with the booster beeing cloaked on grid...
and how does a cloaked booster work since he cannot run any mods aide the cloak |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:31:00 -
[117] - Quote
Scott PiIgrim wrote:If the booster is not on the same grid, you should not get any boost. On the other hand, theres nothing wrong with the booster beeing cloaked on grid...
Thats even worse than OGBs.
At least the OGB can be scanned down and killed.
The only way to find a cloaked booster is to hope you run into them by pure luck. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 21:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. You can't let T2 battlecruisers in a major without letting battleships in. To be honest it's kinda broken letting T2 BC's in because a major is the only one limited to BC and lower. T2 BC's would be king of majors if they were suddenly allowed and battleships were not. It also would make the t1 BC hulls far less desireable for FW.
Anyway about OGB... its fine. Working as intended (for those who put the effort into having one). |
Dan Carter Murray
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Vytone wrote:Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life. If your big concern is blobs why are you in null sec?
BECAUSE NULLSEC IS THE LEETEST FORM OF PEE VEE PEE HERP FKN DERP
dipsh!t nullbears join fw, die horribly, then claim fw lowsec sucks |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 13:26:00 -
[120] - Quote
Vytone wrote: Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.
The same arguments were often used by proponents of Falcon alts back in the day - it allows us to fight outnumbered. Yet in space what you would see is people using them to blob more safely. For every guy who would use it to fight superior numbers, there would be ten gankers who use falcon alts to insure that when they're trying to blob a small gang or a soloer that they can't possibly shoot back.
Bottom line is that having a free HG snakeset + free faction point & web on your otherwise T1 ships with the only really expensive ship being out of direct fighting is broken - the reward is far too high compared to the risk of using a T3 alt. It will go away, eventually, just like the old Falcon did, and nothing disastrous will happen. |
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Lili Lu
344
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 14:30:00 -
[121] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. Why so emotional? " **** you " isn't a valid argument. True. But I think though that he is referring to the folks (like you?) complaining about losing the utility of their tech III dishonor boosting alts and calling for everyone else to train maxed sp and equipment probing alts to find them
Regardless, this whole argument is pointless anyway because CCP has now made multiple statements over multiple years that off-grid boosting is not what they want in the game and it will be dealt with. Like every other fix coming to the game it will probably take a good long while before it appears on tranquility. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
516
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 16:20:00 -
[122] - Quote
They have three devs doing the rebalancing project. It's starting to pick up speed. By the time they get to command ships and T3's this conversation may be moot. You may have alot more tools (HACs actually being worth something) so the same cookie cutter strategies might not seem so criticial. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1407
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 16:28:00 -
[123] - Quote
Cpt Branko wrote: Bottom line is that having a free HG snakeset + free faction point & web on your otherwise T1 ships with the only really expensive ship being out of direct fighting is broken - the reward is far too high compared to the risk of using a T3 alt.
Don't forget the free HG Halo set too. Often overlooked, but it makes a huge difference. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Amlaith
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 20:42:00 -
[124] - Quote
While unrealistic perhaps fleet position should be a limiting factor. From a BC/T3 at squad level up to titan at fleet level with Fleet command ships at the wing level. Squad makeup then matters and the leader effectively runs the squad. Wing commanders pass links down but there efficiency is reduced. Capital ships in Fleet command get a boost and pass down to everyone. With that said if you remove the command processor from the equation you dont have to worry about on grid vs off grid boosting. A T3 limited to one booster off grid is far less effective. A command ship off grid may be effective but is easy to prob. A capital off grid may offer more but it is by far at more risk away from the fleet it is boosting.
With this roles are defined. You can off grid boost with escalating risk to the ship size vs boost to fleet. T3 / Field Commands are better served in the fight with bigger boosts to a single squad while Fleet Commands capitals can function on or off grid with more risk. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 21:13:00 -
[125] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. Why so emotional? " **** you " isn't a valid argument. True. But I think though that he is referring to the folks (like you?) complaining about losing the utility of their tech III dishonor boosting alts and calling for everyone else to train maxed sp and equipment probing alts to find them Regardless, this whole argument is pointless anyway because CCP has now made multiple statements over multiple years that off-grid boosting is not what they want in the game and it will be dealt with. Like every other fix coming to the game it will probably take a good long while before it appears on tranquility.
E-Honor. lol.
A probing alt talks less to train for than an OGB alt, and costs less. So whats the problem besides being lazy? |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
81
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 00:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
What does off-grid boosting add to the game that justifies it violating EVE's risk/reward structure and combat paradigm, contributing to alt-proliferation pvp requirements, and fundamentally undermining solo-pvp? |
Lili Lu
347
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 01:10:00 -
[127] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote: E-Honor. lol.
A probing alt talks less to train for than an OGB alt, and costs less. So whats the problem besides being lazy? And yours is a false premise. That everyone who disagrees with your desire to keep the off grid booster in the game is doing so because they are too lazy to create a probing alt. Or won't spend money to buy one or train one.
But I'm sure you will just keep on trotting out your flawed argument, it's all you've got apparently, and all you will ever have as the dreaded day draws nearer when CCP takes the tactic away from you. One with which you are incredibly attached, judging by your posting frequency on this issue, and apparently won't know what to do without. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 01:22:00 -
[128] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Diesel47 wrote: E-Honor. lol.
A probing alt talks less to train for than an OGB alt, and costs less. So whats the problem besides being lazy? And yours is a false premise. That everyone who disagrees with your desire to keep the off grid booster in the game is doing so because they are too lazy to create a probing alt. Or won't spend money to buy one or train one.
Thats like saying is wrong for somebody to warp off because I'm too lazy to use a warp scrambler.
Everything has a counter, if OGBs bother you THAT much... learn to probe. Stop whining to CCP like some kinda miner. |
Lili Lu
348
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 01:30:00 -
[129] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote: Thats like saying is wrong for somebody to warp off because I'm too lazy to use a warp scrambler.
Everything has a counter, if OGBs bother you THAT much... learn to probe. Stop whining to CCP like some kinda miner. Sorry, I've got nothing to whine about. CCP is finally it appears putting something they've been wanting to do on the somewhat near term to do list. I'm rather happy. You on the other hand . .
Oh, and there you go again. |
Klown Walk
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 02:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
On grid would only hurt the smaller gangs. Nerf the amount they give instead, a tengu for example makes an active shield tanked ship more than 2.20x times stronger, add implants and it's around 3,20-3.40 times stronger. A large shield boosting Cyclone goes from tanking about 300 dps with heat to almost 1k dps. |
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Alex Carmel
The Nyan Cat Pirates Nyanpire
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 03:18:00 -
[131] - Quote
Keep offgrid boosting, nerf boosting from POS as that's lame, make a ship easier to scan down for every active link. You want a 4 link loki? Cool. You're as easy to scan as a ratting carrier with all those link active.
There you go, risk vs. reward. |
Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
123
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 07:20:00 -
[132] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Quote:what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass I loled, cos sadly it's true... I agree, offgrid boosting should stay. I also agree that you shouldnt be able to boost from inside a POS. I dissagree that CS/T3 bonuses shou;d be swapped, the fact that you can't tank a boosting T3 at all makes up for it. You're third point is so wrong.
You can tank a T3 booster. T3 boosters are meant to have 1 link, not four. As with miners fit you ship correctly and stop bitching about its stats when you choose to fit it wrong. hi, you can tank a 3-link t3. (if you want to do a flat-out tank rather than nano-based, use a CS)
[Loki, Super-Nano Claymore] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Co-Processor II Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Command Processor I Command Processor I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x6
[Tengu, Nano-Vulture] Damage Control II Caldari Navy Co-Processor Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Command Processor I Command Processor I Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy EM Ward Field Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Mjolnir Rocket
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
for armor HACs:
[Loki, AHAC Wing Commander] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
10MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Command Processor I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Warrior II x5 Warrior II x11 |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 08:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:On grid would only hurt the smaller gangs. Nerf the amount they give instead, a tengu for example makes an active shield tanked ship more than 2.20x times stronger, add implants and it's around 3,20-3.40 times stronger. A large shield boosting Cyclone goes from tanking about 300 dps with heat to almost 1k dps.
The amount is in itself problematic (links were just fine in the old days of T1 links and 3% ship bonus; they gave you a terrific bonus, but were not a "absolutely must have so even clueless idiots use them"), but that's not really a off grid boosting issue, which is the point of this thread.
Anyway, what I don't buy the "would hurt smaller gangs". There's a host of ships which can boost and be combat-worthy (even good old Tier 2 BCs which have no bonus). It screws with gang composition a bit - that's true - you can't have a pure gang of eg. kiting Tier 3s*. However, the idea that nobody used links on mains is laughable. We used interdiciton maneuvers arty-Hurricanes in two man gangs back in the day (then they introduced T3s so instead of covops one of us switched to using a cloaking probing unprobeable gang boosting loki, rendering using a booster on a main utterly pointless).
In a way it does somewhat hurt the smaller gang fighting a larger gang of idiots by using an off grid booster, which the larger one doesn't have. Still, the good (that it's easier to kill idiots) doesn't outweigh the fact it's still a broken concept - having a ship which massively increases performance away from the actual fight.
*Which are silly, by the way. |
Klown Walk
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 11:40:00 -
[134] - Quote
Cpt Branko wrote:Klown Walk wrote:On grid would only hurt the smaller gangs. Nerf the amount they give instead, a tengu for example makes an active shield tanked ship more than 2.20x times stronger, add implants and it's around 3,20-3.40 times stronger. A large shield boosting Cyclone goes from tanking about 300 dps with heat to almost 1k dps. The amount is in itself problematic (links were just fine in the old days of T1 links and 3% ship bonus; they gave you a terrific bonus, but were not a "absolutely must have so even clueless idiots use them"), but that's not really a off grid boosting issue, which is the point of this thread. Anyway, what I don't buy the "would hurt smaller gangs". There's a host of ships which can boost and be combat-worthy (even good old Tier 2 BCs which have no bonus). It screws with gang composition a bit - that's true - you can't have a pure gang of eg. kiting Tier 3s*. However, the idea that nobody used links on mains is laughable. We used interdiciton maneuvers arty-Hurricanes in two man gangs back in the day (then they introduced T3s so instead of covops one of us switched to using a cloaking probing unprobeable gang boosting loki, rendering using a booster on a main utterly pointless). In a way it does somewhat hurt the smaller gang fighting a larger gang of idiots by using an off grid booster, which the larger one doesn't have. Still, the good (that it's easier to kill idiots) doesn't outweigh the fact it's still a broken concept - having a ship which massively increases performance away from the actual fight. *Which are silly, by the way.
I agree that there is plenty of ships that can boost but it would be much easier for a large gang to keep a t3 link ship safe on grid and in that case they get a massive advantage. If it gets nerfed it should affect everyone, from a solo pilot to big gangs. If one side can use t3 links while the other can't, you have to either bring more pilots or don't fight at all. Atleast now both sides can use it.
They should still nerf the boost amount down to someting like 20%. Right now there is no reason not to use it, even solo frigate pilots use them. Will on grid only fix that? Probably not. Bring the bonus down low enough so you have to actually make ships/fits around it to make links effective instead of using links for everything. While it still gives a good bonus for large fleet fights. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 23:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Diesel47 wrote: Thats like saying is wrong for somebody to warp off because I'm too lazy to use a warp scrambler.
Everything has a counter, if OGBs bother you THAT much... learn to probe. Stop whining to CCP like some kinda miner. Sorry, I've got nothing to whine about. CCP is finally it appears putting something they've been wanting to do on the somewhat near term to do list. I'm rather happy. You on the other hand . . Oh, and there you go again.
Oh ho ho ho, you are so funny and clever.
Don't try to pretend that people didn't whine about OGBs because they are too bad to train a prober alt.
And even if you aren't whining, you are still too lazy to probe OGBs so you are happy that the game is being simplified for you. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1926
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 03:58:00 -
[136] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:
Oh ho ho ho, you are so funny and clever.
Don't try to pretend that people didn't whine about OGBs because they are too bad to train a prober alt.
And even if you aren't whining, you are still too lazy to probe OGBs so you are happy that the game is being simplified for you.
Actually, it can be a tad annyoing to probe out your npc-corp booster alt in a crowded highsec rvb system whilst you're happily killing rvb frigs with a little help from your 'friend'. You know... morons. |
Johan Marberg
Gradient Electus Matari
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 04:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
Quote: boosters show up on km.
This I like. A lot. And it's subtle.
Would do a great job of showing which 'solo' PVPers were actually solo. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:02:00 -
[138] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. Why so emotional? " **** you " isn't a valid argument. True. But I think though that he is referring to the folks (like you?) complaining about losing the utility of their tech III dishonor boosting alts and calling for everyone else to train maxed sp and equipment probing alts to find them Regardless, this whole argument is pointless anyway because CCP has now made multiple statements over multiple years that off-grid boosting is not what they want in the game and it will be dealt with. Like every other fix coming to the game it will probably take a good long while before it appears on tranquility. I was calling exactly that out. Why should we have too? Now I do have a max skilled and planted probe alt. Coincidentally he is also my main leadership booster alt. But why should we have to have all of these skills to find a 1 month old alt? You know what. I gave up on the T3 booster. I will not use it even though I could get literally sick resists and point range from using it. I refuse to stoop to that level. I find it dishonest and cheesy. So I did the next best thing. I put him in a drake and had him fly with the rest of my gang. Now some will say loldrakes, and they are. But I am just getting used to flying with 5 characters in PVP and losing fantastically. But when I get the hang of it I have plenty more fleet formations that are topping at 6000+ DPS with only 5 people in them and the booster will be on grid for it.
Now I will agree that leadership skills should account for something. They are awesome to have in even the smallest of frig gangs. So here is a simple solution.
All leadership skills work within the system you are in, but gang links only work on grid with the booster. So when you are offgrid you still get the basic boosts for a leader. When your booster is on grid though you get massive enhancements to your stats. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 08:37:00 -
[139] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Diesel47 wrote:
Oh ho ho ho, you are so funny and clever.
Don't try to pretend that people didn't whine about OGBs because they are too bad to train a prober alt.
And even if you aren't whining, you are still too lazy to probe OGBs so you are happy that the game is being simplified for you.
Actually, it can be a tad annyoing to probe out your npc-corp booster alt in a crowded highsec rvb system whilst you're happily killing rvb frigs with a little help from your 'friend'.
You can make up all the stories you want, but nobody uses OGBs in RvB fleets. Seeing as all the fights are pre-arranged between the FCs. But that just shows how much you know... not much.
Also, post with your main or gtfo. |
Dr Shameless
No. 310 Fighter Squadron Soldiers Of New Eve
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 08:54:00 -
[140] - Quote
the best way to solve this is to not allow any module activation while being inside a pos bubble |
|
Joa'har
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 09:13:00 -
[141] - Quote
To me, it seems to be a reward vs risk problem. Even if you are just at a safe spot, the reality is that it takes time and focus to find it, and the person who's flying that OGB needs to be afk enough not to refresh his scanner for probes every thirty seconds or so.
The benefits of a max skill CS boosting is huge...ridiculous really.
So in my opinion, command ships should only give their boosts while on grid. To balance this their tank should be good enough, that if the opposing gang/fleet decide to go after it, it'd be a very hard choise, one that they would have to know they'd pay for in ships.
Of course, the dps that command ships do would have to be balanced so as to not to make them too powerful, but I'm sure a balance could be found.
Maybe make command ships get a huge boost to their resistances whenever command modules are active, but limit the range to on grid only, so that it's not unfeasable to bring a command ship in grid on a big fleet fight, but not impossible to kill them either.
Or maybe balance the amount of resistance increases the command ship gets be dependent on how many ships it's boosting, to make them harder to kill in big fleet fights, but so that they aren't unkllable in small gang fights either.
In any case, in my opinion, offgrid boosting is way too rewarding for the risk it involves. This should be fixed by either nerfing the reward or increasing the risk by forcing the booster to be in grid. |
Tensou
Jugis Modo Utopia pwn-O-graphy
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 10:43:00 -
[142] - Quote
Off grid boostin under pos isnt fair cause you cant counter it. But i dont see why should we remove off grid t3 boosting completely. It can be countered with proper probing skills and some implants, or the blob can counter it if nobody laggs off the blob on jumps (in my corporation we say that if you dont jump with the others youre already dead), and ofcourse you can always train someone in your fleet to boosting and get a booster for yourself, thats a counter too. Ofcourse that means someone has to sacrafice his killmails and nearly half year traning in leadership and get a null tanked 600 mill isk cruiser. Yeah to me it seems whining on forums to remove the whole thing is a lot more easier than looking for ways to counter it....
NO off grid boosting under POS, agreed. NO off grid boosting at all, totally disagree. Off grid boosting needs to change? Maybe, but not that drastically, and change is not the same as nerf or buff. |
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia pwn-O-graphy
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
Tensou wrote:Off grid boostin under pos isnt fair cause you cant counter it. But i dont see why should we remove off grid t3 boosting completely. It can be countered with proper probing skills and some implants, or the blob can counter it if nobody laggs off the blob on jumps (in my corporation we say that if you dont jump with the others youre already dead), and ofcourse you can always train someone in your fleet to boosting and get a booster for yourself, thats a counter too. Ofcourse that means someone has to sacrafice his killmails and nearly half year traning in leadership and get a null tanked 600 mill isk cruiser. Yeah to me it seems whining on forums to remove the whole thing is a lot more easier than looking for ways to counter it....
NO off grid boosting under POS, agreed. NO off grid boosting at all, totally disagree. Off grid boosting needs to change? Maybe, but not that drastically, and change is not the same as nerf or buff.
I totally have to disagree with nerfing the offgrid boost.
Thanks. |
Lev Arturis
Dark-Rising
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:35:00 -
[144] - Quote
Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:45:00 -
[145] - Quote
Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds.
Learn to probe. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
576
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 17:59:00 -
[146] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe.
Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online." Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:32:00 -
[147] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe. Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online."
I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online."
Carebear tears, best tears! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
580
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 22:37:00 -
[148] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Cearain wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe. Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online." I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online." Carebear tears, best tears!
Ah I see, because this mechanic is so bad you can't really defend it, you resort to name calling. Everyone who realizes this is a **** mechanic must just be a whiney carebear.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1932
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 22:43:00 -
[149] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:
You can make up all the stories you want, but nobody uses OGBs in RvB fleets. Seeing as all the fights are pre-arranged between the FCs. But that just shows how much you know... not much.
Also, post with your main or gtfo.
Telling me to post with my main whereas any recent killboard records of yours show RvB kills only whilst you continuously claim you need an OGB to keep soloing all those evil 0.0 blobs hunting you is slightly schizophrenic.
It leaves room for two conclusions: Either, you're alt posting yourself or your stories about evening the odds vs. nullsec blobs are entirely made up.
The fact that you're naive enough to believe nobody uses OGBs in RvB and your obvious display of lacking first hand experience in all your posts however leads me to believe you're not capable to comprehend even such simple logic and the latter conclusion is the correct one. You know... morons. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 23:51:00 -
[150] - Quote
To those who are so worried about POS boosting, what is the difference if people simply sit next to the POS bubble and boost? They'll still have a level of protection because of the POS modules. You won't be able to gank them without seriously risking your ship, assuming their POS has a decent defensive setup. |
|
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 00:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Vytone wrote:Cearain wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe. Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online." I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online." Carebear tears, best tears! Ah I see, because this mechanic is so bad you can't really defend it, you resort to name calling. Everyone who realizes this is a **** mechanic must just be a whiney carebear.
No offensive tactic is technically "defended". They are countered. And the counter to an OGB is either superior tactics or an OGB of your own.
Being titan bridged upon by a 100 man blob is a **** mechanic too but it works as intended, I'm not whining and complaining for ccp to change it because it can't be effectively countered. I expect it and prepare for it as it is part of the game. Sorry that YOU can't "defend" against certain tactics, but every tactic has a counter. But again your too lazy to figure it out so just call it unfair and beg ccp to change it for you. As far as the name calling goes, if the shoe fits.........
|
Hrett
Justified Chaos
163
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 00:22:00 -
[152] - Quote
Armeggeda iscariah wrote:So , after reading the CSM minutes (what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass.) I came across the ever so controversial topic of Offgrid links.
~~
So, In-light of what my opinions are what do you guys think ? And if Dev's give a **** to post (Not like you guys play your own game anyways so your uninformed as hell.) what do they think ?
Kill offgrid boosting.
And Armeggeda, since this is your thread and you bring up AlvachiUSA alot ( ) then I will say this:
AlvachiUSA was very very very successful in BWF with an ON GRID boosting cloaky Ferox (I thinkt that is what it was?). Sometimes we caught it and killed it. Sometimes we didnt. But it was at risk, and that was the point. The offgrid stuff is just silly for the amount of bonuses it gives. Put it at risk on grid where it becomes a target and I have no real issue with it.
IMHO. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1409
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 00:57:00 -
[153] - Quote
Vytone wrote: No offensive tactic is technically "defended". They are countered.
He was saying "defended" as in "defend the argument that OGB is fine". "OGBs have counters therefore they are fine" is a defense, so hey-o, it can be defended. Quit twisting words around.
"X has counter Y" is not always a proper argument for X being balanced. It also depends on Y's viability.
Suppose Falcons could cloak up so long as there was nothing within 1 km of them. Call it a super-cloak or something. No restrictions to cloaks from targeting or anything. The argument could be posited that it's balanced because you could have a dedicated speed frigate or prober with you that warps to 0 or runs at it and bumps it to keep it from cloaking. It has a counter via "superior tactics", therefore it is balanced, right? People would be instructed to HTFU and get a decloak alt that can fly a Rifter with a MWD, along with their own Falcon alt. This is balanced, right? Bullshit.
It could just run away before you get there. It could cloak up as you're approaching, and be already aligned by the time you decloak him. He could just be staying aligned to begin with, and cloak/warp on your approach. It is ridiculously easy to get away and be perfectly safe in this ship. Having to dedicate one or more fleet members for a slim chance of catching a ship that serves as a massive bonus to the other team is a poor "counter" -- on top of the fact that having such a ship doesn't really contribute to the fleet overall if the enemy does not have such a Falcon. This would be a broken mechanic/ship and people would be up in arms to nerf it.
Now, back to OGBs. How are they different? They:
- Require less manual piloting than a Falcon to work at full effectiveness. Push the boosts, align, and you're gold.
- Require less manual piloting to stay perfectly safe than a Falcon. Align, spam d-scan. See combat probes? Get ready to warp out. See anything on grid? Warp out (cloak if you have one, too; it's a T3!).
- Can operate safely from inside (or on top of) a POS.
- Are far more difficult to associate with your enemy. Is that Loki on scan the same neutral in local, and a booster for the enemy gang? Who knows? In hisec, he's untouchable. In lowsec, you have to GCC on him (and possibly take gate/station gun fire to attack him).
- Do not have any viable counter in soloers / small gangs. Is every 5-man gang supposed to have a max-skilled and Virtue-setted prober with them?
- Legitimately have "bring your own booster" as a counter. Remember the proliferation of supercapitals, and how they were balanced because the whiners were the ones without the ******* (or cash) to "bring their own"? Same idea.
So... OGBs are worse for small gangs, safer, and inspire more alt-play than a super-cloak Falcon would. A lot of people would call out the latter as unbalanced and call for nerfs, but... OGBs are somehow okay? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Vytone
Ganja Labs Exodus.
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 02:34:00 -
[154] - Quote
I'm not twisting words around dude I'm just reading what he's writing and clearing it up for him. By the way, how do you know what he meant? I suppose you could assume whatever you want but I read the words and rebut like a proper human being does. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1410
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 02:48:00 -
[155] - Quote
Vytone wrote:I'm not twisting words around dude I'm just reading what he's writing and clearing it up for him. By the way, how do you know what he meant? I suppose you could assume whatever you want but I read the words and rebut like a proper human being does. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defend
Quote:1. a : to drive danger or attack away from "defend our shores" b (1) : to maintain or support in the face of argument or hostile criticism "defend a theory" (2) : to prove (as a doctoral thesis) valid by answering questions in an oral exam c : to attempt to prevent an opponent from scoring at "elects to defend the south goal"
As this forum thread is basically the topic "what does the community have to say in defense of offgrid boosts", and since there is no particular one off-grid boosting ship in question, it is reasonable to assume he meant the bolded definition of "defend", and not defend as in remote rep or otherwise directly ensure a specific OGB doesn't get destroyed. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Smurfinator
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 02:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
Make links raise your sig and make any ships running them probable, there fixed it. Move along now. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 09:35:00 -
[157] - Quote
Smurfinator wrote:Make links raise your sig and make any ships running them probable, there fixed it. Move along now. And that will make on grid boosters more vulnerable (including field CS and BC which sometimes run links), which isn't the point of intended remake.
Ideally, the point is to make more roles suitable to actually play them, not run them with alts.
IMO the criteria is if you need to pilot ship in order to keep stuff going (or can you do anything else of value during this with this ship)? If no, then it could use a look. Examples would be mining, boosting. Not touching cynos here since the problem is really sensitive, but one should tanke into account how useless recon cyno bonuses are, so maybe something could be done there. |
Dan Carter Murray
92
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 10:21:00 -
[158] - Quote
Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. T1 bc has fitting bonus to links.
Links aren't expensive. |
Rixx Javixx
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 11:03:00 -
[159] - Quote
if they nerf offgrid links, many people will sell their loki alts and cancel the subs on the account
i know i would.
ccp would lose ALOT of money |
Darkstar Warrior
DarkstarRed
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 11:30:00 -
[160] - Quote
Speaking as someone who sunk over a year and a considerable amount of isk into making a combat booster alt, obviously I don't want to see off-grid boosting completely disappear.
Leadership skills take a decent chunk of time - the charisma attribute they use means you want to do them when you're mapped for them which means you might as well get them all done in one go. It's been suggested that perhaps instead of doing them ALL, everyone could do some. If fleet bonuses worked in a cumulative fashion - which they don't - then yes I could see that many BC/t3/CS running one or two links each, thus not completely gimping the ship for any other purpose (like defensive/offensive capabilities), would be useful and reduce the skills investment required. I haven't seen CCP suggest making boosts cumulative though.
Right now, say you had a loki with sirmish mindlink in FC, tengu with siege mindlink in WC and a bunch of folk with leadership 5 in squad command roles. The loki's skirmish bonuses would apply as would the tengu's siege bonuses and whichever of the two pilots had better skills would apply the bonuses from any armor/information links being run on those ships. This is NOT cumulative. Any seige links the loki was running or skirmish links the tengu had active would be completely superseded by the other pilot's superior bonuses, and thus not counted.
So we're back to a limited number of boosters running multiple links by pilots who've had a considerable amount of time invested in skills, and usually in fairly flimsy ships. Command ships are the least vulnerable because of t2 ship resists but they're slower than t3s and struggle to maintain pace with fleet; t3s give superior bonuses but are far pricier and far more likely to die when caught.
The other issue is one of dual-boxing. Most combat boosters are alts simply because of the time requirement on the skills - would you want to take 9 months out of your combat skillplan to train up t2 ganglinks and leadership skills? Me either. Regardless of the quality of your pc and how many monitors you have available, I would argue that dual-boxing two characters in a combat situation is extremely difficult and likely to lead to mistakes and the loss of one (or both) ships. This is where the 'off-grid' bit gets relevant.
But I do agree that boosters shouldn't be able to make such a valuable contribution in 'perfect' safety. I would fully support a change which meant you couldn't activate links inside a POS shield. And perhaps it's worth applying an effect whereby active links increased your sig radius or nerfed your speed - making you easier to probe down? Another possibility would be some form of visible effect on the ships being boosted so that anyone engaging knows they are not in fact just dealing with a solo rifter but a heavily boosted one. Thus indicating to you that there's a booster in space somewhere you might want to deal with ASAP.
There should be risk involved in providing boosts to combat fleets - but I strongly feel that taking these booster alts on-grid renders them totally unworkable. I for one, would be forced to either field my booster alt or my combat main - not both. Which begs the question of which account it's viable to keep paying for...
[If I've merely repeated what others have already said then I apologise. Wanted to throw my tuppence in but am already overloaded with info today and didn't read the entire thread. No disrespect intended. :) ] |
|
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 11:47:00 -
[161] - Quote
Off grid boosting is bullshit - that is all |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:25:00 -
[162] - Quote
I'd be happy with an overview or "aura" indication that a ships has gang link boosts applied.
Aura - Similar to ECCM, Sensor boost, tracking computer. |
TomyLobo
Posthuman Society Elysian Empire
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 20:21:00 -
[163] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:I'd be happy with an overview or "aura" indication that a ships has gang link boosts applied.
Aura - Similar to ECCM, Sensor boost, tracking computer. There's one. Maybe you need to open your eyes? |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 20:31:00 -
[164] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote:I'd be happy with an overview or "aura" indication that a ships has gang link boosts applied.
Aura - Similar to ECCM, Sensor boost, tracking computer. There's one. Maybe you need to open your eyes? Not the booster, the boostee. Fuckwit. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
356
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 21:56:00 -
[165] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote:what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass I agree, offgrid boosting should stay. I also agree that you shouldnt be able to boost from inside a POS. I dissagree that CS/T3 bonuses shou;d be swapped, the fact that you can't tank a boosting T3 at all makes up for it.
Unfortunately, offgrid boosting from inside a pos is necessary for rorqual pilots. Hotdrops by titans on rorquals would proliferate and relative safety of the pos is the only real place for low-sec miners to place the rorq properly.
Also, boosting mining fleet from on-grid is even worse. Offgrid boosting should stay - just nerf it so the boost isn't as grandiose as it is now. Perhaps less boost, but less requirements for the gang links so more links of different types can be applied ?
(Just a thought).
CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Cap James Tkirk
The Nommo
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
OGB is fine stop whining and get your own damn booster or figure out a better counter then NERF NERF NERF cause i dont wants to think and like easy mode |
Lotty Granat
0utbreak Outbreak.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:55:00 -
[167] - Quote
I know I'm too far down in this thread as TLDR is the order of the day but I have a suggestion to back all the pilots who like offgrid boosting to enhance small gangs against blobs. This is also why I like it and I'd like to see it enhanced for small gangs. I'd suggest achieving this by limiting boosts from Command Processors to the pilots Squad. This limits the number of pilots that can be boosted by more than 1 module on a T3 to 10. I'd suggest that the role specific command ships be unaffected so they regain the role of boosters of choice in some situations.
That would ensure that a blob can use a T3 in FC, WC, and Squad roles if they like but if they intend to use T3 can only stack for 5-6 boosts, otherwise they must go for more scanable boosters which may prefer to stay on grid with the logistics. Gangs under 10 can use 1 x T3 booster for 3-4 boosts from a safe. |
Red lensman
BlackSky inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 23:45:00 -
[168] - Quote
The mining gang boosts need to have off grid boosting as a fleet of more than 5 mining barges really need to on more then 1 belt at the time as they mine to fast when we've had 10-20 barges mining we'd by clearing 3-6 belts at a time |
Jean Luc Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 00:15:00 -
[169] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Diesel47 wrote:
You can make up all the stories you want, but nobody uses OGBs in RvB fleets. Seeing as all the fights are pre-arranged between the FCs. But that just shows how much you know... not much.
Also, post with your main or gtfo.
Telling me to post with my main whereas any recent killboard records of yours show RvB kills only whilst you continuously claim you need an OGB to keep soloing all those evil 0.0 blobs hunting you is slightly schizophrenic. It leaves room for two conclusions: Either, you're alt posting yourself or your stories about evening the odds vs. nullsec blobs are entirely made up. The fact that you're naive enough to believe nobody uses OGBs in RvB and your obvious display of lacking first hand experience in all your posts however leads me to believe you're not capable to comprehend even such simple logic and the latter conclusion is the correct one.
STFU -You know - not evryone posts his killmaisl all the time. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 01:03:00 -
[170] - Quote
If they're API'd they're posted automatically.
What's everyone's obsession with people posting under false names? Is the picture more important than the post contents? |
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Xolve
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1044
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:09:00 -
[171] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote:Remove titan bridges then. How many people are using the titan on their main account and not just dual boxing it to bridge the fleet in? Unfair advantage is unfair. What, youre telling me people use it for logistics too? Lets make them suffer because one group uses it to blob small gangs.
+1
Actually let's nerf everything into the ground that doesn't suit the needs and wants of one specific group players in Low-Sec participating in Faction Warfare. The game is bigger than you people, stop being so self-centered.
It's not hard to probe down and ritually slaughter boosting alts, most of them are terrible, and most boosting alt owning pilots don't pay attention at all to that second screen once the fighting starts. Want a counter to boosting alts? It's called a distraction, figure out how to do it. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Cyrek Ohaya
Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:09:00 -
[172] - Quote
Small gangs cry over blobs, but beginning players cry because they can't even have a fair attempt on quad boosted small gangs. Small gangs only want to scapegoat blobs so they can be much superior to casual solo pvpers. |
Xolve
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1044
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:11:00 -
[173] - Quote
Jean Luc ****** wrote:STFU -You know - not evryone posts his killmaisl all the time.
No you- kill mails prove literally nothing.
Kill mails are not an indication of anything other than this person, showed up in this system, and pushed F1; This is what the victim was flying.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:12:00 -
[174] - Quote
Xolve wrote: It's not hard to probe down and ritually slaughter boosting alts, most of them are terrible, and most boosting alt owning pilots don't pay attention at all to that second screen once the fighting starts. Want a counter to boosting alts? It's called a distraction, figure out how to do it.
What you have summed up here is exactly what is wrong with off grid boosting alts.
EVE is a game, it is supposed to be played by people who are at the controls of the game. Boosting in itself is fine but that should be done by someone who is playing and is involved in the game not someone who is not in the vicinity of the gang they are boosting.
As you state its not particularly hard to find careless boosting alts because they aren't actually playing the game, and that is just completely stupid. There is no tactic, no risk vs reward, just a minimized EVE client running out of sight with a few modules active - and that is tragic for a game that prides itself on the depth of its strategy.
This mechanic is completely bollocksed so the solution is to remove off grid boosting. Forcing the booster to be on grid increases the risk and means that there will actually have to be a real player behind the controls - surely this is the way the game is meant to be played, you know with actual players n stuff ? |
Xolve
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1045
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:24:00 -
[175] - Quote
Nicaragua wrote:As you state its not particularly hard to find careless boosting alts because they aren't actually playing the game, and that is just completely stupid. There is no tactic, no risk vs reward, just a minimized EVE client running out of sight with a few modules active - and that is tragic for a game that prides itself on the depth of its strategy.
This mechanic is completely bollocksed so the solution is to remove off grid boosting. Forcing the booster to be on grid increases the risk and means that there will actually have to be a real player behind the controls - surely this is the way the game is meant to be played, you know with actual players n stuff ?
So in order to fix it, CCP should make it so you can only log into one account at a time then? Right?
That will fix all the things! Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:28:00 -
[176] - Quote
Xolve wrote:So in order to fix it, CCP should make it so you can only log into one account at a time then? Right?
That will fix all the things!
I already posted what the fix is, in fact this entire thread is debating that very fix so why don't you do a bit of reading to catch up with the rest of us instead of trying to be a smart arse.
|
Xolve
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1045
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:32:00 -
[177] - Quote
Nicaragua wrote:
I already posted what the fix is, in fact this entire thread is debating that very fix so why don't you do a bit of reading to catch up with the rest of us instead of trying to be a smart arse.
I too post fixes to things that havn't yet/won't happen.
The only thing of merit you have said in this thread is offgrid boosting is bullshit, to which I say 'deal with it'. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 13:18:00 -
[178] - Quote
Xolve wrote: I too post fixes to things that havn't yet/won't happen.
The only thing of merit you have said in this thread is offgrid boosting is bullshit, to which I say 'deal with it'.
I'm wounded by your harsh words, i really am.
Nonetheless - I don't need to "deal with it", it appears CCP are going to deal with it for me. And again, that's captured within the title and opening post of this thread, so as before - do a little bit of reading beforehand and then maybe you'll be able to contribute something useful to the topic.
|
Xolve
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1045
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 14:22:00 -
[179] - Quote
Nicaragua wrote:Nonetheless - I don't need to "deal with it", it appears CCP are going to deal with it for me. And again, that's captured within the title and opening post of this thread, so as before - do a little bit of reading beforehand and then maybe you'll be able to contribute something useful to the topic.
CSM Minutes =/= dev Blog, HTH. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 15:56:00 -
[180] - Quote
keeping off grid boosting seems ok to me too, assuming it's outside a POS, mainly because having them on grid seems a bit too cumbersome and clumsy. especially for dual-boxers which are so many of them.
however, i feel it's still a bit too removed.
my proposal is to tweak the OP's suggestion a bit.
1. create a "link" command between a booster and a pilot 2. when linked, the booster will always warp with the linked pilot and land at a random spot within a sphere between 1 and 2 AUs of the pilot, and no closer than 1 AU from a celestial (requires a bit of geometry to ensure this).
this means if there's a booster boosting the pilot/fleet you're fighting, 1. you will know your enemy is boosted when they land, becuase the booster will be on DSCAN, unless your DSCAN is set to less than 1 AU. 2. you have a good idea where it is, always within 1-2 AUs from you
this makes the booster significantly easier to scan, thus riskier for the booster, and definately more interesting for everyone.
now i can't predict how it all turns out... but i sort of imagine any fleet that has a booster(s), may now have to deal with a fleet(s) that have scanner(s) as the counter, else lose the booster, or put the booster on grid in the hopes of being better able to defend it there. choice is yours.
btw, the booster will still have an edge, in that the scanner still has to scan it down, then warp to it, etc. this allows the booster to have some temporary affect, but not necessarily a dominating or lasting one. also, some interesting fleet tactics may develop based on the limitations of the booster link and known proximity to battle. |
|
Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 17:41:00 -
[181] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online."
IMHO this sums it up nicely.
cu |
Lord LazyGhost
Kadavr Black Guard Shadow Cartel
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 18:35:00 -
[182] - Quote
hows about when the links are activated sig radious goes up a lot. so makes scanning down so much easyer. would allow for booster baiting.
Ie coming in for a fight with a known booster engageing him while having a corpie to scan down and popping hi while the guy is fighting a bait ship lolz could be funz... |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 00:01:00 -
[183] - Quote
so FCing in a command ship will be cool now \o/ |
Stalking Mantis
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 10:21:00 -
[184] - Quote
David Devant wrote:@ Pax Thar: There's nothing unfair about rolling a boosted ship against multiple targets. Check Garmon's vids and say it's unfair. Even against a single target, you die, you whine, and then you get on with it.
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all.
Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face.
Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones.
Say it with a straight face.
We fly outgunned, We fly outnumbered. It's what we do. http://www.youtube.com/user/Flyinghotpocket/videos |
Arsedestroyer
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:28:00 -
[185] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face. Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones. Say it with a straight face.
It's quite the same for most of the OGB defenders - either they POS boost in Lowsec to gank solo frigs in their thrashers or never leave highsec like Diesel47. |
Esk Esme
Far From Sober
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 10:09:00 -
[186] - Quote
Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread
to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game
also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
107
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 11:02:00 -
[187] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote:Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
You should consider playing this game and not only smash talk. Scanning is not the problem, the problem for low-sec faction warefare players with boosting alts is that these alts are not in the enemy faction. So even if they just sit at the gate (which they often do) you don't want to kill them because you a) don't want to go pirate, b) are flying small stuff which quickly gets popped by gate guns. I think a boosting ship should be handled like a remote repper. If he is repping or boosting my valid enemy then I am allowed to kill it without any penalty. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 11:14:00 -
[188] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote:Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread
to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game
also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is
Thats nice dear, now run along and try not to say anything else stupid. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1958
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 23:16:00 -
[189] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote: Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it
Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields whilst having a 6-link booster actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
It's all a matter of perspective... You know... morons. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 14:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt...
Leadership 5 - 256K SP Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants? |
|
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 14:46:00 -
[191] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote: Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt... Leadership 5 - 256K SP Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3. How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants?
Its about 4-5 months which isnt particularly long for this game. |
Lili Lu
369
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 17:41:00 -
[192] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Cearain wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe. Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online." I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online." Carebear tears, best tears! Actually the whining because you can't cope and hope CCP will change it's plans is coming from your camp. CCP has said for years they wanted to end off-grid boosting. Now that they appear to have found a solution to the coding problem and be getting serious about doing it, all of folks that have come to depend on the Tech III ss-ing booster alt are the ones throwing names around and specious arguments about how others are too "lazy" to create probing alts to try to find boosting alts. And, yes, if the other guy disagrees with my opinion he is ipso facto a carebear.
Small gang roaming and small gangs harrassing larger ones happened in eve before the tech III cruisers were in game. And it will continue after the Tech III boosting alts lose their current mode of operation. Continue to moan about the loss of this unintended mechanic, or adjust. I think you will be able to adjust. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1961
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 22:18:00 -
[193] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so nect to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes.
Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills. You know... morons. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 12:57:00 -
[194] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Whar Target wrote:
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so next to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes. Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills. Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 13:19:00 -
[195] - Quote
Whar Target wrote: Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.
Well thats just a difference of opininion on what makes something noobish. My personal take on it is that some of the people for OGB are arguing as though it is some kind of elite hardcore tactic and the problem is that everyone else just needs to catch up to their awesome skill level.
The fact is that it is none of those things and the samething can be achieved by any new player who has the appropriate knowledge within a short space of time, and due to the ease of ISK making in noob friendly pursuits like Faction Warfare the the entire thing can very easily be financed with plex from a couple of days FW complex grinding.
As for falcon alts then i can live with that because at least the falcon has to be within a reasonable range of the ships it is assisting which leaves it open to interceptors, long range weapons, sensor damps, ECM etc. |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 13:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
Pain of OGB defenders is delicious.
/me parking here freight train for tears. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
463
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:25:00 -
[197] - Quote
gang of 5 claymores and 5 vultures anyone?
Whos got dem linkz!?
WHY DUAL X-L ASB! IMPOSSIBRU! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1965
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 22:08:00 -
[198] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.
It all depends on the definition of a noob. Real beginners may perceive 4-5 months as a big investment for a game they haven't invested much time in yet and will ultimately will be turned off by OGBs since they're not sure if the want to make the investment into an OGB and multiple screens if they don't have that already.
In case they're interested in solo pvp or beginning to do smallscale with a couple of RL friends, they'll end up really annoyed because every single one of them and their dogs have their private OGB alts.
Nonetheless, it's noob friendly for noobs that made the decision to stick around, so mostly the roughly 2 year old noobs and everyone of them feels obliged to get one. Sounds good for CCP, but then again, mandatory OGBs just turn absolutely new subscribers off.
ECM mechanics need to be reworked, but that's another issue. You know... morons. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 05:50:00 -
[199] - Quote
Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. 14 |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 10:00:00 -
[200] - Quote
Many times I get the advantages of offgrid boosting myself. Fastest ship, 13Km scrambler, etc. It's very nice. I don't have any alts (for boosting or anything, in fact) but some mates do, and they use them,
However, I wouldn't mind seeing offgrid boosting removed.
Perhaps it would be enough if offgrid boosting T3 was much LESS effective than active boosting from a Command ship being risked in real engagements?
I see that T3 are expensive and wonderful tools, but I'd rather see Command ships being much better at boosting than them, always. |
|
BBQ FTW
The Hatchery Team Liquid
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 23:22:00 -
[201] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. fon for CSM
even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame) |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 02:54:00 -
[202] - Quote
BBQ FTW wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. fon for CSM even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame)
a) I agree with what Fon posted above. b) I am in the 'No off grid boosting' fan club.
Give Commands more tank or evasiveness. Hell give them BS+ ehp and frigate speeds for all I care, but force them to be somewhere on the battlefield. Otherwise it sits in the same low risk - high reward situation it has been for too long.
When I pvp, its usually solo or small gang stuff in BC's and smaller (still raising alt's skills for larger ships). I dislike the inherent idea that just having a player (or lets be honest, an alt account) in a T3 with mwd blasting away out in some safe area makes an entire group of ships buffed, with no way to counter it (scanning down a ship with mwds going non stop is not very feasible) other than doing the same is just not right.
If you want to bring the kind of fantastic buffs that command mods bring, great! But do it on the battlefield where you are at risk, and a viable target for the other team. With high tank and / or support, as they are trying to blast you down, your team is blowing them away 1 by 1 (I do think they need more tank though, to counter the fact that they would need to be on the field, as they will hands down be the primary or secondary target next to ECM ships and Logi's).
Just my take on it. ~Zyella |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
420
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 03:51:00 -
[203] - Quote
+1 vote for nooff-grid boosting. I dislike the idea of an overheated MWD on an Atron being run down from 70km by a Vigilant before it even gets up to speed for a warp-out. Yeah, sure, its a 300M pirate faction cruiser with faction point and webs vs a 380K frigate, with a 800M booster alt for Loki links and a 800M legion alt for uber tank. Arguably, I lost on warp-in as I under-invested in the fight by at least 2.5Bn ISK...but the edge in speed and point range and scan res was blindingly obvious. If you can die to blaster boats at 70km within seconds, something's wrong.
Off-grid boosters stuck in POS shields not only create crazy crap like this, and are totally risk-free, they contribute to less PVP. It doesn't take long for people to finger who compulsively uses boosts to "solo" and who those booster alts are. I now know to totally avoid trying to pick fights in certain systems in FW because the opposition has booster alts, and I am too cheap, lazy and time-harassed to deploy my own alt (who is also not trained for it), to even the score and give me a competitive edge.
There's also a lot of argument about small gang PVP suffering to the Blob, and that off-grid boosters are essential to creating an environment where small gangs can engage blobs. This is bullcrap. Deploy a scout, pick your engagement time and location, and you can deal with a blob easily. If this wasn't the case, EVE Uni would dominate every time they came to FW lowsec because, clearly, we minmatar cannot avoid them and must fight outnumbered. Derp through a gate into a blob, you deserve to be punished, and demanding insane boosts to counter your derp isn't logical, it's just a crutch for crap FCing and poor skill. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
276
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 06:41:00 -
[204] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. Was suggested a while ago that hulls be used to differentiate in such a manner when they are getting overhauled anyway. T3, never being better than T2 (ref: CCP design goals), could be limited to squad boosting, T2 could be limited to wing/squad boosting with capitals being the only hulls with enough juice to transmit across an entire fleet. Problem is that for min/max'ing a fleets potential it would have to use up to 5-10% boosters which is a tough sell to people who have grown accustomed to having the "One Ship to Boost them All" .. that is the biggest hurdle as I see it.
Alternative (within framework of On-Grid, 'cause it WILL happen) is to simply add a broadcast power attribute to the relevant hulls/subsystems, T3 are able to cover 100km, T2 can cover 250km and capitals can reach full grid or 500km whichever condition is met first.
BBQ FTW wrote:fon for CSM
even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame) Finally snapped, eh? IRL now being referred to as in-game .. guessing you love the Hi-Definition graphics beyond your front door and would love CCP to upgrade IRL to the same level
PS: Don't mind the people saying you are insane, they are just envious of your clearly superior perception! |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
356
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 10:25:00 -
[205] - Quote
I dunno, removing boosts imo will just be a significant buff to alpha fleets. I never pos up my booster as its fit for mobility, i agree that possing them up should make the links non-functional. |
Aracimia Wolfe
The Cursed Navy
105
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 12:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:+1 vote for nooff-grid boosting. I dislike the idea of an overheated MWD on an Atron being run down from 70km by a Vigilant before it even gets up to speed for a warp-out. Yeah, sure, its a 300M pirate faction cruiser with faction point and webs vs a 380K frigate, with a 800M booster alt for Loki links and a 800M legion alt for uber tank. Arguably, I lost on warp-in as I under-invested in the fight by at least 2.5Bn ISK...but the edge in speed and point range and scan res was blindingly obvious. If you can die to blaster boats at 70km within seconds, something's wrong.
Off-grid boosters stuck in POS shields not only create crazy crap like this, and are totally risk-free, they contribute to less PVP. It doesn't take long for people to finger who compulsively uses boosts to "solo" and who those booster alts are. I now know to totally avoid trying to pick fights in certain systems in FW because the opposition has booster alts, and I am too cheap, lazy and time-harassed to deploy my own alt (who is also not trained for it), to even the score and give me a competitive edge.
There's also a lot of argument about small gang PVP suffering to the Blob, and that off-grid boosters are essential to creating an environment where small gangs can engage blobs. This is bullcrap. Deploy a scout, pick your engagement time and location, and you can deal with a blob easily. If this wasn't the case, EVE Uni would dominate every time they came to FW lowsec because, clearly, we minmatar cannot avoid them and must fight outnumbered. Derp through a gate into a blob, you deserve to be punished, and demanding insane boosts to counter your derp isn't logical, it's just a crutch for crap FCing and poor skill.
The Sig, The Rhetoric, you sir are my hero. even if you are Winmatar I like my coffee like I like my men. In a plastic cup http://aracimia.blogspot.co.uk/ |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:05:00 -
[207] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. Was suggested a while ago that hulls be used to differentiate in such a manner when they are getting overhauled anyway. T3, never being better than T2 (ref: CCP design goals), could be limited to squad boosting, T2 could be limited to wing/squad boosting with capitals being the only hulls with enough juice to transmit across an entire fleet. Problem is that for min/max'ing a fleets potential it would have to use up to 5-10% boosters which is a tough sell to people who have grown accustomed to having the "One Ship to Boost them All" .. that is the biggest hurdle as I see it. That's right, but the whole point is in having to make trade-offs. At the moment should you start assemling a fixed-number gang of, say, 3-5 ships, you always have to evaluate pros and cons of any particular ship, that's including the boosting one. Are 3 skirmish links really more usefull than increasing your DPS by 25-50% or RR power by 1/3? That's a tough choice. Now it's all entirely different for blobs, they can easily remove one of their 50 Drakes and take a booster instead.
And that's just wrong.
I'd say that this particular thing is one of the most terrible flaws in current EVE mechanics, along with instantenious risk-free hot-dropping. 14 |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1973
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:57:00 -
[208] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:
That's right, but the whole point is in having to make trade-offs. At the moment should you start assemling a fixed-number gang of, say, 3-5 ships, you always have to evaluate pros and cons of any particular ship, that's including the boosting one. Are 3 skirmish links really more usefull than increasing your DPS by 25-50% or RR power by 1/3? That's a tough choice. Now it's all entirely different for blobs, they can easily remove one of their 50 Drakes and take a booster instead.
And that's just wrong.
I'd say that this particular thing is one of the most terrible flaws in current EVE mechanics, along with instantenious risk-free hot-dropping.
The problem with OGBs is that there is no trade-off. Want to run a gang of 3-5 ships? The question is not if you lose 25% of damage, the question is how many members bring their OGB alt. They're never dedicated pilots - just effortless alts.
I agree however that a purely range-based mechanic would overly favour blobs once more, but basing any mechanic on fleet size is only good in theory since most fleet coordination takes place OOG and people would easily circumvent that.
Anyway - with CCPs glacial speed, fixing the issues will probably take years, but they'll have to start somewhere and I think everyone in his right mind can agree upon the fact that OGBs should be removed, so that's a start. You know... morons. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 11:14:00 -
[209] - Quote
I can see both points of view on this one. Personally I would rather see things that are really broken such as Corp/POS Roles & permissions fixed first rather than this. |
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 11:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
posting in another lets dumb down eve becouse joe internetspaceship has a boosting alt they put aprox 6 months of training and cash into
welcome to alts online |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:59:00 -
[211] - Quote
One issue is that fleet boosts are not part of the "diminishing returns" associated with almost every other aspect of Eve Online. Fleet boosts are expensive and give massive levels of boosts compared to other ways. They should be expensive and give marginal boosts instead.
5% bonus due to expensive implants is a bit OP as well, but these implants affect a single character. These are the improvements that help solo pvp'ers succeed over a fleet. Each single person who wants these same advantages must pay.
With fleet boosters, an ENTIRE FLEET receives an even larger % bonus to performance. This is way too OP (IMO), and also hurts the solo pvp'er. Now an entire fleet has better attributes than this single player - all because of a single invulnerable fleet booster.
|
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 23:06:00 -
[212] - Quote
The main problem are POS-shield boosters or terrible noobs like Diesel47.
Both should die (ingame). |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
120
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 02:21:00 -
[213] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:posting in another lets dumb down eve becouse joe internetspaceship has a boosting alt they put aprox 6 months of training and cash into
welcome to alts online
Odd, I would say forcing them to be on field would reduce the 'dumbing down' factor, by giving you a way to counter it, and by putting those buffs / that ship at risk. Not to mention making it much harder to put that 6 month trained afk alt into play on the field. ;) |
Gul Harat
The Loner Souls
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 12:00:00 -
[214] - Quote
Disable gang links inside pos shields and add signature increase to command processors. That way T3 can have one active link to be hard to scan down or be really easy to scan down if they are off grid with more links. Command ships still get their 3 links and they can decide to stay with fleet or be outside pos shields or easy to scan down as they currently are.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
773
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 12:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:
That's right, but the whole point is in having to make trade-offs. At the moment should you start assemling a fixed-number gang of, say, 3-5 ships, you always have to evaluate pros and cons of any particular ship, that's including the boosting one. Are 3 skirmish links really more usefull than increasing your DPS by 25-50% or RR power by 1/3? That's a tough choice. Now it's all entirely different for blobs, they can easily remove one of their 50 Drakes and take a booster instead.
And that's just wrong.
I'd say that this particular thing is one of the most terrible flaws in current EVE mechanics, along with instantenious risk-free hot-dropping.
The problem with OGBs is that there is no trade-off. Want to run a gang of 3-5 ships? The question is not if you lose 25% of damage, the question is how many members bring their OGB alt. They're never dedicated pilots - just effortless alts. The same is true for Falcons or cloaked supplementary logistic, so I'd rather impose a limit to have a solid discussion ground. Given how EVE works, there's hardly a way to move that additional ship unscouted, whether OGB alt or not, so the opposing ones do take it into account for the most part. 14 |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 13:28:00 -
[216] - Quote
So like, initially I wasnt going to post here, while I feel OGBs are an issue, thought needs to put into Command Ships, as there are some glaring issues if all boosting was forced on grid.
Issue 1, Tank; All CS would need to be able to field a tank equivalent to the Damnation (400k+), as well as tanking types on links. Issue 2, Speed; Example; You have a kiting Nado gang, you want that gang to have Siege links, a Vulture cannot keep with Nados even when heavily agility fit, therefore kiting gangs no longer have Shield links, as they would get bogged down and die right at the start of the fight.
Solutions Issue 1; Increase the base tanking attributes and change the active bonuses on the Claymore and Eos (NOTE, NOT THE Sleipnier/Astarte) to a resist bonuses, as well as modifying some slot layouts. Issue 2; Multirole CS, example; Claymore (Siege/Skirmish) Eos (Armour/Information) Vulture (Siege/Information) Damnation (Armor/Skirmish)
Or something along those lines, reasoning being;
There is now an Armour tanked ship that can provide Skirmish links. There is now a shield tanked ship that can provide Information links. There is now a Siege linker that can keep up with kiting gangs (Maybe has slightly less buffer than the Vulture to balance). All the CS can now weather significant amounts of damage. All now can perform multiple roles while keeping all useful. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
296
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 13:33:00 -
[217] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:One issue is that fleet boosts are not part of the "diminishing returns" associated... Heh, yeah. Really is an insane amount of oomph one can get from an off-the-shelves item .. yet they have the audacity to complain that a booster does not get his own augmentation even if his 200 sheep "friends" do.
Fleet boosting has spoiled Eve players senseless, for that alone it should be nerfed into the ground
Fon Revedhort wrote:The same is true for Falcons or cloaked supplementary logistic, so I'd rather impose a limit to have a solid discussion ground. Given how EVE works, there's hardly a way to move that additional ship unscouted, whether OGB alt or not, so the opposing ones do take it into account for the most part. Huh? Unless something changed drastically that gave ECM and RR the ability to function system wide then using those ships for comparison is out of bounds. Besides, MWD/Cloak trick (can't believe it hasn't been patched out to be honest) can and will get you anywhere you want to go barring a large'ish bubble camp. |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 13:42:00 -
[218] - Quote
So many people just utterly miss the point on the t3 boosters. CCP never designed them to be sat at safe with a cov ops cloak and 4 boost running at once on a a horribly gimped fit that explodes if a fly touches the ship.
If you want to run multiple boost at one time, it's called use a CS that is fit to provide multiple boost at decent performance.
If you want to provide a single boost that is extremely potent, it's called use a boosting t3 that uses one boost at amazing performance.
The idea was never to have 4 amazing boost running at the same time. One of the easiest ways to solves this problem once and for all: T3s are restricted from using the command processor module. We have plenty of modules that restricted to dedicated ships and classes, so why can't the command processor be the sole owner to the command ship class...god knows they need a reason to be flown again.
Wow look at that, problem is solved to the cloaky/interdicted nullified t3 running around at 99.9% safety providing insane boost. If you bother to park the alt in system to provide one excellent boost at a safe, so be it. But tbh, if you're gonna do that you might as well fit that ship for real combat and throw it in the fray.
And before people argue, well you can still park a command ship at a safe and provide 4 boost. Yes but you also can't warp around cloaked, be immue to bubbles, and have to travel through gates knowing you could get caught quickly by any gate camp if you're not careful/scouted beforehand. But what if he's already logged in system at his safe? Well he still can't warp around cloaked and he's a hell of a lot quicker to probe down being that he has a battlecruiser sig radius. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1570
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 14:47:00 -
[219] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:So like, initially I wasnt going to post here, while I feel OGBs are an issue, thought needs to put into Command Ships, as there are some glaring issues if all boosting was forced on grid.
Issue 1, Tank; All CS would need to be able to field a tank equivalent to the Damnation (400k+), as well as tanking types on links. Issue 2, Speed; Example; You have a kiting Nado gang, you want that gang to have Siege links, a Vulture cannot keep with Nados even when heavily agility fit, therefore kiting gangs no longer have Shield links, as they would get bogged down and die right at the start of the fight.
Solutions Issue 1; Increase the base tanking attributes and change the active bonuses on the Claymore and Eos (NOTE, NOT THE Sleipnier/Astarte) to a resist bonuses, as well as modifying some slot layouts. Issue 2; Multirole CS, example; Claymore (Siege/Skirmish) Eos (Armour/Information) Vulture (Siege/Information) Damnation (Armor/Skirmish)
Or something along those lines, reasoning being;
There is now an Armour tanked ship that can provide Skirmish links. There is now a shield tanked ship that can provide Information links. There is now a Siege linker that can keep up with kiting gangs (Maybe has slightly less buffer than the Vulture to balance). All the CS can now weather significant amounts of damage. All now can perform multiple roles while keeping all useful. I actually like this. Tweaking the numbers for tank/speed/etc to achieve balance for all of them would be difficult, and oh god dat Claymore, but I like it. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
OT Smithers
Perkone Caldari State
174
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:18:00 -
[220] - Quote
Remove off-grid boosting. Actually, better still, give boosting a max range of 200km.
Add booster to all KMs. Add ANYTHING that effects a ship to KMs.
Change agro and docking mechanics to prevent aggressed ships from docking in anything, including a carrier, for 60 seconds.
Remove Titan drops from low sec. Hell, remove non-industrial Capitals from low sec. Better still, remove them from game altogether, or limit their weapons, reps, and what not from functioning on any sub cap ship.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
773
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 07:15:00 -
[221] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:The same is true for Falcons or cloaked supplementary logistic, so I'd rather impose a limit to have a solid discussion ground. Given how EVE works, there's hardly a way to move that additional ship unscouted, whether OGB alt or not, so the opposing ones do take it into account for the most part. Huh? Unless something changed drastically that gave ECM and RR the ability to function system wide then using those ships for comparison is out of bounds. Besides, MWD/Cloak trick (can't believe it hasn't been patched out to be honest) can and will get you anywhere you want to go barring a large'ish bubble camp. The thing is, they are not that hard to use either, especially if you don't build your entire fight around them, but rather use in key moments and/or as out-of-jail cards.
Anyway, I've got no issues whatsoever with close-range and highly vulnerable gang-boosters, but as said above, this should come with their effect getting split over gang members, so that boosting a ship provides higher bonuses than boosting two or more - just like with logistics, where tanking ability goes down if the logistic splits his reps to heal multiple ships simultaneously. 14 |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 14:42:00 -
[222] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Schalac wrote:To all the people that say to train probers to find your OGB, I say **** off. to all the people that think this will hurt CCP financially I say **** you. Off grid boosting is a sham and you will be dealt with, deal bitches. The only thing I want to come from this nerf is allow all command ships into all FW major sites. If it is a major site Tech II BC should be allowed into it. T1 bc has fitting bonus to links. Links aren't expensive. And I run them on my BCs. I would like to run them on a CS though as I am plexing in FW. I will just have to wait until they redo FW again in the winter expansion. |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
12
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 01:19:00 -
[223] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:psycho freak wrote:posting in another lets dumb down eve becouse joe internetspaceship has a boosting alt they put aprox 6 months of training and cash into
welcome to alts online Odd, I would say forcing them to be on field would reduce the 'dumbing down' factor, by giving you a way to counter it, and by putting those buffs / that ship at risk. Not to mention making it much harder to put that 6 month trained afk alt into play on the field. ;)
Learn to probe
roaming gangs with ogb dont take pos with them to hide ogb
but hey cant adapt lets nurf for the bunnies |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
451
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:41:00 -
[224] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:
Learn to probe
roaming gangs with ogb dont take pos with them to hide ogb
but hey cant adapt lets nurf for the bunnies
Yes. it really is that easy to probe down an OGB T3. Even with a fully pimped clone in a faction-fit covops or T3, you have to get the probes down to <1 AU. To say that this can be achieved before the probes are spotted on scan, during a small gang engagement has been decided in favour of the side with the OGB, is entirely disingenuous. Without a ridiculously expensive clone and covops to counter the T3, it is literally impossible.
I agree with the guy who said to nerf the command processor module. Set a limit of 1 per ship. Job done.
Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 12:33:00 -
[225] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote:what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass I loled, cos sadly it's true... I agree, offgrid boosting should stay. I also agree that you shouldnt be able to boost from inside a POS. I dissagree that CS/T3 bonuses shou;d be swapped, the fact that you can't tank a boosting T3 at all makes up for it.
If i'm really honest, I don't get what the deal is here, Links are one of the things in eve that really works the same for everyone.
I think that if you remove offgrid links all you do is again dump down eve, part of the tactics of a good fight, is placement. Making sure you fight in a system that benefits you and not your targets.
I agree that POS based links give you an advantage. But if you have worked to get that advantage and your targets haven't. Well **** em really.
If anything, POS based links should maybe get a boost, giving the defender of the system a benefit that the attackers either have to work to gain or do not have. It's not hard to Covert Bridge a set or two of links just before a fight either.
I really don't get why CCP feels the need to make eve less of a challenge. All it services to do is remove layers of complexity from the game. Layers that I personally improve the game and the options players have.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
64
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 12:59:00 -
[226] - Quote
Are you linkfags trolling or just ********? |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:12:00 -
[227] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Are you linkfags trolling or just ********?
just ******* meight |
Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.06 16:59:00 -
[228] - Quote
OGB'S are completely fine. They contribute with nothing else than their links, and each site can bring one. If the blob is smart enough to bring an OGB, its not their fault if you refuse to bring one while roaming.
People have payed for OGB, they've trained up a pilot, dedicated an account to it - with the same logic you need to remove titans, because.. well, because I can't have my own, and it's completely unfair if the enemies can do. I don't care if they've worked for it, its not fair !!111
However, if offgrid-boosting is removed CCP really needs to think about the rorq. It will be useless if you need to deploy it ongrid, and noone will ever touch it again for its boosting-purpose.
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
90
|
Posted - 2012.10.06 18:14:00 -
[229] - Quote
I was thinking about this and I think the problem lies in the fleet setup. When you had gangs the booster was the person with the highest skill and that affected everyone in the gang. Also you could have everyone boosting a different stat without need of assigned roles. Now what I think should happen is to go back to that setup where skill trumps role for the entire fleet, and then add in the only one command link per T3 and you have your fix.
Let the fleet setup only effect add pilot and warps. While anyone in the fleet could be boosting stats for the entire fleet with no need of a role to do so. |
easily killed1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 15:31:00 -
[230] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:David Devant wrote:@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce. Falcon nerf. Nano nerf. Supercap nerfs. Deep safe spot nerfs. Incursion nerf. Anti-bot campaigns. ... Incarna. CCP often does stuff that ticks off a large amount of people and their alts. Sometimes it even works. Some accounts may unsub, some characters may be biomassed or sold, but the game is better for everyone else who is left. This is especially preferable when the quitters are a very small minority. How much of the Eve population do you think has boosting alts? You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette. David Devant wrote:I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all. I fly command ships too, and I think it's utter bullshit that I can't be the tankiest thing ever, buff my fleet to be incredibly effective, and do damage at the same time. Come to think of it, why can't my Scimitar have weapons too? Maybe a doomsday or two?
You also have to keem in mind the law of unintended consequences, I know a lot of you probably don't care about whs, but "on-grid" boosting would break high class wormhole pve. if your booster gets neuted out by sleepers and links go down the entire fleet dies.
Booster alts take several months, half a year, sometimes more to train. Often these characters are owned by the ceo or other long standing members of a corp (especially in small corps). People in leadership positions in eve often are also successful in real life, and are busy with that. This leads to "afk boosting" which can be essential for some small groups, forcing boosing on grid will hamper small corps who use boosts as a force multiplier and newer players relying on an older, busier leader.
I agree that an un-scannable ofgrid booster is a problem, and very much like the idea of command links blowing up sig radius like a mwd to counter, but the argument that having to scan down an ofgrid booster as being too "immersion breaking" or boring is flawed. Possibly "YOU are bad at scanning, running an alt may be immersion breaking for YOU but not everyone. and if you feel like missing out on killmail whoring while you play the part of spec ops to hunt down the linchpin of the enemy fleet ultimately turning the tide of battle from a route to victory as their fleet's capacity is diminished 20-50% in a single blow, then the problem is with YOUR lack of self-confidence and need for gratification, and a failure on the part of the leaders of your organization to properly reward important roles played by specialists under their command. when you scan down and lead to the death of an enemy ofgrid booster, your not a soldier. (usa perspective) You are a cia operative providing vital intel, You are Seal Team 6 shooting Bin Ladin. BOOM f-in Headshot.
EDIT: there are no periods in that massive sentance because periods are for pussies.
tell me again, why do we need to get rid of of-grid boosting again?
I may agree with the no-boosting-inside-pos-shield, if only so this happens more often
(trolling afk orca pilot outside shield) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHKUBXdtuPY&lcor=1&lc=16KNUUUSuJRZeG6WoFYBDnYhJQ-6VXghyw-U-Zx9diY&lch=email&feature=em-comment_received |
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
90
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 17:32:00 -
[231] - Quote
easily killed1 wrote:
You also have to keem in mind the law of unintended consequences, I know a lot of you probably don't care about whs, but "on-grid" boosting would break high class wormhole pve. if your booster gets neuted out by sleepers and links go down the entire fleet dies.
Well then you need to start thinking about how you would counter that. How about a sniper fit command ship. They have plenty of tank for WH.
easily killed1 wrote:Booster alts take several months, half a year, sometimes more to train. Often these characters are owned by the ceo or other long standing members of a corp (especially in small corps). People in leadership positions in eve often are also successful in real life, and are busy with that. This leads to "afk boosting" which can be essential for some small groups, forcing boosing on grid will hamper small corps who use boosts as a force multiplier and newer players relying on an older, busier leader. All I can say to this is, wah. We can't compete anymore because our leader can't leave his boosting alt online in the POS all day anymore. The time you spent training doesn't matter at all. CCP can say tomorrow projectiles are going to now use cap and they are going to switch attributes with hybrids. Guess what your perfect projectile skills will not be refunded. CCP did say that off grid boosting is getting nerfed and guess what, your perfect leadership skills will not be refunded.... HTFU.
easily killed1 wrote:I agree that an un-scannable ofgrid booster is a problem, and very much like the idea of command links blowing up sig radius like a mwd to counter, but the argument that having to scan down an ofgrid booster as being too "immersion breaking" or boring is flawed. Possibly "YOU are bad at scanning, running an alt may be immersion breaking for YOU but not everyone. and if you feel like missing out on killmail whoring while you play the part of spec ops to hunt down the linchpin of the enemy fleet ultimately turning the tide of battle from a route to victory as their fleet's capacity is diminished 20-50% in a single blow, then the problem is with YOUR lack of self-confidence and need for gratification, and a failure on the part of the leaders of your organization to properly reward important roles played by specialists under their command. when you scan down and lead to the death of an enemy ofgrid booster, your not a soldier. (usa perspective) You are a cia operative providing vital intel, You are Seal Team 6 shooting Bin Ladin. BOOM f-in Headshot. No, you aren't, you are another alt chasing an alt of another alt. Scanning is for finding sites and safes, busting missions and getting jump points to snipers on grid. Chasing around booster alts who warp from safe to safe everytime a probe is in space is pointless, because the fleet with the booster won't engage you and you are never going to catch the booster alt.
|
easily killed1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 18:19:00 -
[232] - Quote
Schalac wrote:
"Well then you need to start thinking about how you would counter that. How about a sniper fit command ship. They have plenty of tank for WH."
sleepers have pretty much infinite neut, scram, web, attack range. and please make the argument that it should be required exploit game mechanics to do pve with leashing, grid fu, etc. (please dont dwell on this too much because its not all that important, as you say, they'll figure something out)
Schalac wrote: All I can say to this is, wah. We can't compete anymore because our leader can't leave his boosting alt online in the POS all day anymore. The time you spent training doesn't matter at all. CCP can say tomorrow projectiles are going to now use cap and they are going to switch attributes with hybrids. Guess what your perfect projectile skills will not be refunded. CCP did say that off grid boosting is getting nerfed and guess what, your perfect leadership skills will not be refunded.... HTFU.
Fair enough, doesn't mean i have to like it. That said, CCP has seems to like refunding these days because of how overwhelmingly popular it is. I mean, they crash their servers for an entire day, get burned on the forums for a couple hours(weeks for some) and then people start asking them to crash their servers again? "moar skillpointz preeze!"
Schalac wrote:No, you aren't, you are another alt chasing an alt of another alt. Scanning is for finding sites and safes, busting missions and getting jump points to snipers on grid. Chasing around booster alts who warp from safe to safe everytime a probe is in space is pointless, because the fleet with the booster won't engage you and you are never going to catch the booster alt.
this does not necessarily counter my point: the tactical advantage of disrupting command links can be more pivotal to a fight than actually scoring a kill. As long as that booster is warping around hes not providing boosts. I know for smaller fleet battles that may be more important than larger, but I've seen it make a huge difference in the outcome of a fight.
The larger point is thus, Will changing offgrid boosting to ongrid boosting create more interesting and fun game-play, is the mechanic actually broken? What are all the alternative solutions and how do they compare in achieving the goal of creating meaningful game-play? Does having a booster ship on grid offer meaningful options to either the booster or the enemy fleet?
Does off-grid boosting work? what is it's goal? It's clear that there is an opinion that off-grid boosting is negatively effecting nulsec pvp in the eyes of many as it lacks a sufficient counter. the same complaint is not being made in wh space (to the best of my knowlege). in highsec the complaint is of out-of-corp boosting alts.
Interdiction nullfield covert cloaky warp core stabbed boosting t3? yeah this is broken and stupid (but nice to have if you have it) this variant of t3 is just too powerful, agreed! The solution is to nerf the t3, such as moving the warfare processor subsystem to electronics subsystem, meaning you have to choose between cloaking and boosting. If a person is paying enough attention to their booster to see probes and warp, then they aren't passively playing and this is in line with other mechanics as boosts do not work in warp.
another solution could be to have warfare-links immobilize your ship or prevent warp.
The problem with any nerf is that skillpoints in leadership shouldn't be viewed as wasted by the people who trained them, if boosts are to be moved on grid they need to be a viable option in the majority of situations they are currently used and flexible enough to respond to new developments in pvp. This doesent mean offgrid (or boosts in general) dont need a nerf, but a better solution may be to create a counter or make them easier to counter
my point here is mostly to play devils advocate because I dont know the answer and I'm hoping meaningfull discussion comes out of it and some dev can come read it after the changes have already been finalized and say "man, I really wish we had looked at |
easily killed1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 18:23:00 -
[233] - Quote
- continued
"... looked at that sooner! Oh look they are shooting the statue again... sigh. |
Camera Drone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 22:57:00 -
[234] - Quote
It's an easy fix, I don't see the need to delete offgrid boosting nor switch around the command ships / T3 setups.
A. Remove boosting within/near a POS B. Limit command modules to command ships (cpu requirement reduction similar to covert ops ships and their cloaks), as you shouldn't use them on T3's anyway. this will effectively put both ships back into their proper role. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
460
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 03:51:00 -
[235] - Quote
easily killed1 wrote: You also have to keem in mind the law of unintended consequences, I know a lot of you probably don't care about whs, but "on-grid" boosting would break high class wormhole pve. if your booster gets neuted out by sleepers and links go down the entire fleet dies.
You're doing it wrong. Number one, you are talking about a defenceless command processor T3 being "vital" for C5's? That's your unintended consequence, having to bring a tanked Damnation to a cap-escalated site, and havee your triage Archon...rep it? OMG, how terrible!
easily killed1 wrote:Booster alts take several months, half a year, sometimes more to train. Often these characters are owned by the ceo or other long standing members of a corp (especially in small corps). People in leadership positions in eve often are also successful in real life, and are busy with that. .
Yeah, I am CEO of Sudden Buggery, and I spend hours of my life playing an MMO. Look at how great my life has turned out! Taking away unscannable T3's will bankrupt me, as I can no longer play FOREX derivatives and CFD's on one monitor and farm C5s with leashed Quad caps on the other. Because i can't dualbox while at work, and the Command ship alt has to be on grid and i have to broadcast for reps, I'll have to hand the keys to my Lexus back, sell the superyacht, and tell my supermodel girlfriend "no snu-snu tonight, dear, I have to actually dual-box or the sleepers will kill my Dread and I will become suicidal at the thought".
Ridiculous.
Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
|
easily killed1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 01:47:00 -
[236] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:[quote=easily killed1]
Yeah, I am CEO of Sudden Buggery, and I spend hours of my life playing an MMO. Look at how great my life has turned out! Taking away unscannable T3's will bankrupt me, as I can no longer play FOREX derivatives and CFD's on one monitor and farm C5s with leashed Quad caps on the other. Because i can't dualbox while at work, and the Command ship alt has to be on grid and i have to broadcast for reps, I'll have to hand the keys to my Lexus back, sell the superyacht, and tell my supermodel girlfriend "no snu-snu tonight, dear, I have to actually dual-box or the sleepers will kill my Dread and I will become suicidal at the thought".
Ridiculous.
looks like we found a college dropout /golfclap (47% ftw?) |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1770
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 01:58:00 -
[237] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote: Yeah, I am CEO of Sudden Buggery, and I spend hours of my life playing an MMO. Look at how great my life has turned out! Taking away unscannable T3's will bankrupt me, as I can no longer play FOREX derivatives and CFD's on one monitor and farm C5s with leashed Quad caps on the other. Because i can't dualbox while at work, and the Command ship alt has to be on grid and i have to broadcast for reps, I'll have to hand the keys to my Lexus back, sell the superyacht, and tell my supermodel girlfriend "no snu-snu tonight, dear, I have to actually dual-box or the sleepers will kill my Dread and I will become suicidal at the thought".
As the CEO of Rifterlings, and the corp booster pilot, I can confirm this is how it works. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 20:38:00 -
[238] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:psycho freak wrote:
Learn to probe
roaming gangs with ogb dont take pos with them to hide ogb
but hey cant adapt lets nurf for the bunnies
Yes. it really is that easy to probe down an OGB T3. Even with a fully pimped clone in a faction-fit covops or T3, you have to get the probes down to <1 AU. To say that this can be achieved before the probes are spotted on scan, during a small gang engagement has been decided in favour of the side with the OGB, is entirely disingenuous. Without a ridiculously expensive clone and covops to counter the T3, it is literally impossible. I agree with the guy who said to nerf the command processor module. Set a limit of 1 per ship. Job done.
How about the rediculous price of the ogb ship and implant and time to skill the 13.5m sp in leadership you say sway battle in favour of ogb side Then bring your own ogb ffs or is the time and isk investement to hard for you |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1784
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 20:42:00 -
[239] - Quote
psycho freak wrote: How about the rediculous price of the ogb ship and implant and time to skill the 13.5m sp in leadership you say sway battle in favour of ogb side Then bring your own ogb ffs or is the time and isk investement to hard for you
Just like the price and time investment involved in training a titan meaning it should be able to solo entire fleets, right? I think I've got the hang of this "buying victories" thing, but I'm just checking. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 21:15:00 -
[240] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:psycho freak wrote: How about the rediculous price of the ogb ship and implant and time to skill the 13.5m sp in leadership you say sway battle in favour of ogb side Then bring your own ogb ffs or is the time and isk investement to hard for you
Just like the price and time investment involved in training a titan meaning it should be able to solo entire fleets, right? I think I've got the hang of this "buying victories" thing, but I'm just checking.
Lol when did ogb solo fleet? lmfao the thing with ogb is EVERY gang can have them and tbh if your gang doesnt then lol they make fighting better better tank/better speed/longer point web/better defence against ecm whats not to like i dont mind enemy gang useing ogb makes things intresteing if i cant warp out and am tackled at 40k+ means i gota use my head
i was only stateing price and cimitment of ogb as someine was crying about price of covops and imps to probe them lol |
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Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
141
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:46:00 -
[241] - Quote
So you want your semi-afk char (you only move it occasionally if you think you are being probed, or hide it in pos) alt to affect the entire active player fleet or the other chars. I don't see it. If you can run 2-4 chars in pvp on field vs people active at keyboard, I salute you. But having it off somewhere else in the system yet affecting the battle from there should not be.
Put em on the field. Saying you have training in the char does not mean anything, as the character is still viable, the time was not wasted. You just may have to put them on grid now.
I truly hope they do this. ;) |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 23:07:00 -
[242] - Quote
if its cloaky t3 ogb il use as scout so it plays two roles also yes i run 2x pvp toons and ogb if im on my own if with corp i dont bother as there are enough of us to take up the roles of fleet
All over losec iv had ppl try probe me if i make mistake or return to old bm thats been busted by locals im dead
But hey who cares its getting nurfed like allways we will adapt |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
141
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 00:42:00 -
[243] - Quote
psycho freak wrote: *snip*
But hey who cares its getting nurfed like allways we will adapt
I salute you for this comment.
They have made a ton of changes in this game, much more good than bad, but in dramatic ways regardless if you compare it to 2004. And you (sometimes overly) creative podders have found ways to adapt and use every single one to your advantage. lol
I look forward to the next year of updates.
~Z |
fr0gout
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 03:28:00 -
[244] - Quote
Offgrid boosting is pretty broken. Laughably so. Although there are higher priorities and more broken and **** mechanics to fix first (like ECM). |
Camera Drone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 14:04:00 -
[245] - Quote
Another thing that would solve all of the boosting issues is to incentivize on-grid boosting instead of trying to nerf all other things. f.e. Make it so that boost modules have an optimal + falloff :)
This would also further promote the use of several boosting ships in 1 fleet. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
105
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 17:52:00 -
[246] - Quote
Camera Drone wrote:Another thing that would solve all of the boosting issues is to incentivize on-grid boosting instead of trying to nerf all other things. f.e. Make it so that boost modules have an optimal + falloff :)
This would also further promote the use of several boosting ships in 1 fleet. No.
Ideas I like. Must be on grid. Remove the ability for T3 to fit command processors. Remove booster role from fleet and automatically assign highest booster attributes to fleet. I feel those three things right there would be a good step in the direction of getting boosts on grid where they belong. |
Dametri
Byzantium Reloaded
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 03:01:00 -
[247] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Camera Drone wrote:Another thing that would solve all of the boosting issues is to incentivize on-grid boosting instead of trying to nerf all other things. f.e. Make it so that boost modules have an optimal + falloff :)
This would also further promote the use of several boosting ships in 1 fleet. No. Ideas I like. Must be on grid. Remove the ability for T3 to fit command processors. Remove booster role from fleet and automatically assign highest booster attributes to fleet. I feel those three things right there would be a good step in the direction of getting boosts on grid where they belong.
No.
Ideas I like, as in me myself and I....
Leave it as it is and quit your whining little baby.
|
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
156
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 06:18:00 -
[248] - Quote
Dametri wrote:Schalac wrote:Camera Drone wrote:Another thing that would solve all of the boosting issues is to incentivize on-grid boosting instead of trying to nerf all other things. f.e. Make it so that boost modules have an optimal + falloff :)
This would also further promote the use of several boosting ships in 1 fleet. No. Ideas I like. Must be on grid. Remove the ability for T3 to fit command processors. Remove booster role from fleet and automatically assign highest booster attributes to fleet. I feel those three things right there would be a good step in the direction of getting boosts on grid where they belong. No. Ideas I like, as in me myself and I.... Leave it as it is and quit your whining little baby.
He's not alone in the like (at least with the must be on grid point). Get used to it, not sure what the changes are just yet, but from what I have read, there will be changes coming. |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 16:26:00 -
[249] - Quote
Simple... real simple solution to Offgrid Boosting...
DON'T let modules that boost Sensor Strength affect the scan ability of the ship. This way ALL ships can be scanned down with reasonable skills (4/3/3/3). As for boosting in POSs, I personally consider that home field advantage personally.
This prevents mobile Offgrid Boosters from being completely unscanable and unkillable. But if you really want to come out of pocket for protection from a POS's FF, I feel thats ok.
Please note I am coming from a Wormholer's point of view. -Bl+¦d
Wormholes are the best Space.. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
362
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 17:30:00 -
[250] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Simple... real simple solution to Offgrid Boosting... Except the issue is not so much that they cannot be scanned down but rather that you one ship that is able to boost up 250 other ships to perform 50%+ better than they would otherwise .. without even being present. Consider the circumstances that led to the Failcon nerf all those years ago .. it was able to do its thing at ranges where only BS snipers could threaten it .. and that is a ship (class) that is only able to affect a handful of ships at best or a single when his mojo fails.
No compromises. On grid or remove. Adjust hulls, modules and skills to make it work.
As for homefield advantage in worms (null has bridges and bubble camps on static entrances): Introduce a POS module that can only be deployed where no Sov exists, said module acts as an amplifier for links deployed in the system, or one could add a booster-for-boosters effect to worms but that would necessarily augment both defender and interloper so doubt worm people would go for that.
They are going to revise Sov at some point SoonGäó so they might as well include such things in the beer guzzling phase, you know the preliminary napkin phase at the pub. |
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Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
699
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 17:08:00 -
[251] - Quote
New dev blog is out.
1) off grid boosting is going away 2) they aren't going to swap the 3% and 5% bonuses between CS and T3. They are just going to pimp slap the 5% down to 2% |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 19:56:00 -
[252] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:New dev blog is out. 1) off grid boosting is going away 2) they aren't going to swap the 3% and 5% bonuses between CS and T3. They are just going to pimp slap the 5% down to 2% Thank ******* Christ. |
Lili Lu
577
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 19:58:00 -
[253] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:New dev blog is out. 1) off grid boosting is going away 2) they aren't going to swap the 3% and 5% bonuses between CS and T3. They are just going to pimp slap the 5% down to 2%
Yep. Off-grid booster alt tears incoming.
But they definitiely are going to do the right thing by leaving command bonuses at their surrent percentage and dropping the tech III to 2%. The 5% bonuses are too much for either ship. |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 15:37:00 -
[254] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:New dev blog is out.
1) off grid boosting is going away
Yeah... soonGäó |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
106
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 22:27:00 -
[255] - Quote
"What does that mean in practice? We are removing the distinction between GÇ£fleetGÇ¥ and GÇ£fieldGÇ¥ Command Ships. All of them will now have 3% bonuses to two Warfare Link fields and be able to fit three warfare link modules simultaneously (instead of 3 for fleet versions only). That also means that the previous fleet Command Ships will be rebalanced to fit combat roles. Want to use an Eos as a truly effective drone ship? You can. Or the Damnation as a sexy Khanid missile platform beast? Be our guest. All that matters is the specialization choices you make before undocking by deciding to fit gang links or not, not something forced to you from the arbitrary "field" versus "fleet" hull.
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble." [SMUG]-áSORRY for party rocking! v0v
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
371
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 07:43:00 -
[256] - Quote
Have to admit, the bit about links going on-grid did nothing for me as it was a pretty damn obvious decision .. there are broken things and then there are off-grid T3 booster, they are on a completely different scale of broken-ness.
The thing that made me change my underwear was that they are willing to do a major overhaul of all the CC, including making all of them combat capable, you'll literally have to be on the ball and visually inspect them to see the link effect and even then it can still be a 'dummy' linkship with just one to attract attention and te rest of the highs full of pain. Another thing of interest will be how they go about changing the T3's and the subsystems .. they too will need to have the option of being "beasts" with a command sub or they risk being gimped out of the box. No one will use them as primary linkships if they are dead/vulnerable the second they appear.
...whatever. Links, schminks .. Damnation will be made viable as a "bend over, biatch!" Khanid missile spewing mofo, that alone will probably make me hang around. |
Verushka Atreides
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 18:36:00 -
[257] - Quote
On field boosting is pointless. Obviously, primaries, logistics of switching boosters around in fleet constantly even if multiples are brought and the idea of bringing decoy link ships just plain stupid.
Just disable activation in a pos shield (aren't these shields going anyway in the pos revamp? why are you balancing for something you are about to remove?)
Add activation of a gang link increases sig by 100%
You can't run links while in warp, the more you activate the easier you are to scan, the more running around you'd have to do..
This eliminates the being afk aspect. Add's a new aspect/roles to engagements..
|
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 04:54:00 -
[258] - Quote
Verushka Atreides wrote:
Add activation of a gang link increases sig by 100%
Why do people keep saying this? Do you want shield CS to become completely worthless or do you not know what sig does in game? |
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
102
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:25:00 -
[259] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:New dev blog is out. 1) off grid boosting is going away 2) they aren't going to swap the 3% and 5% bonuses between CS and T3. They are just going to pimp slap the 5% down to 2%
Great... Another kick into nuts to incursion comunity. Because they werent nerfed hard enough... |
OT Smithers
BLOMI
349
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 08:01:00 -
[260] - Quote
Two things need to be corrected:
1. Off Grid Boosting is flat ridiculous. It seriously is. Nothing else in the game works this way. 2. The amount of bonus you get is flat ludicrous.
|
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Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
56
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:58:00 -
[261] - Quote
In all the whine about the 5% being reduced to 2% you missed a few things. For one thing T3 will be able to mix and match 3 types of boosters and the T2 only 2 types. So the claymore (or sleipnir) can have a mix of Skirmish and Shield gang boosters with both getting boni. Admittedly you're implant will only affect 1 type, but it still will allow you to get mixed boni, in much smaller gangs.
Hell, Gallente gangs can look forward to T3 giving armor and skirmish boosts simultaneously. Squadron and fleet crafting is going to get REALLY interesting come Dec 4th and when the BC/BS/CS/SC balancing hits sometime in the new year? It's going to hit high gear. |
Bella Dera
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 20:42:00 -
[262] - Quote
Why don't all you whiners about OGB's just go ahead and make your own game. I personally think CCP is doing a great job, jeesh what a bunch of baby's.
Go CCP!!!!! |
Feffri
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 22:21:00 -
[263] - Quote
1. I think ogb is fine but they need to make it so that it's as easy to scan down as a regular cruiser. That by itself would take away the advantage.. and add a lot more risk the ogb would have to constantly monitor d scan because at cruiser size you could get one scan hit.
2. Switch cs boost bonus with t3 3. no boosting in pos
That would fix it's overpowerdness (if thats a word) :)
|
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
58
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 23:16:00 -
[264] - Quote
Karah Serrigan wrote:Noisrevbus wrote:This topic again? I'll give it the same reply i always do. Remove the Command processor modules, almost every percieved abuse of- or malbalance in the system relate back to that one module. The module effectively handicap the ship that use it to do nothing but boost, while boost more. I think alot of you ascribe more to the ability to stay off grid than what it has earnt. The problem is rather that doing so allow you to boost more, so people will explore those options well before they explore eligable alternatives. I don't mind that alts can carry out the role of a main, in part. I mind it, in case of boosting, when it has become more effective to use alts for it. Where alts will completely obscure the use of a main in the same role, and rear it's ugly head at other parts of the game (such as the market; look at mindlink pricing - it may have something to do with the decline of supply from L4, but it also have alot to do with demand, and risk-confident alts happily paying those sums while on-grid mains hesitate). Remove that module and you will effectively cut the performance of exploitation (i mean it as cutting down rainforests, not as breaking rules) by a good two thirds, while positively directing the community toward on-grid use without removing the ability to run off-grid boosts for groups who lack manpower or utilize strategy that involve it. In short, the problem is that off-grid boosting allow three times as many links on average thanks to the Command processor, not that it could exist as an option with equal boost performance but one less ship fullfilling additional roles on the grid. Prior to related issues, such as market splash-off, my groups always used to put at least some boosting on grid and utilize the benefit from the extra module slots you also get on grid. Removing off-grid boosting completely, or swapping bonuses between CS and Tech III will, as other people put it: only reinforce existing trends and popular gameplay (ie., feed the blob). I'm keen on Tech III as focus and CS as blanket. Remove Command processors (and seed mindlinks in the LP-stores) and you will endorse a balance between alts and mains as well as CS and Tech III, without once again massively disrupt balance between small- and large scale to kill off interaction between the two, and get less ships in space. Haven't you fed the blob enough Ytterbium? Bubble changes, etc. Sir, a fleet command ship can natively fit 3 links without the need for command processors. Removing command processors and you will have offgrid claymores linking instead of lokis, who the **** cares. The only difference is that you cant scout iwth them and will need a THIRD client for that role.
a claymore is pretty easy to probe down. and with being able to tank. is more likely to be useful in fleet near logi. than alone and probed down in 10seconds
and allowing t3 to boost one link well and semi hidden you still allow small gangs to have some boost semi safe mind seeing a small sig bloom from link use. maybe 5%
i wouldnt |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
89
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 01:26:00 -
[265] - Quote
Off grid boosting must be removed from the game. Simple as that.
Boosting modules should have a max range when fitted on a ship. Example 100Km default , the up to 150km with best skills Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
|
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:37:00 -
[266] - Quote
Please CCPz dont forget to remove all implants and ammo and ships. I demand heads or tails in space. Simple as that. |
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
131
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 12:07:00 -
[267] - Quote
Pretty easy to spot the OGB (ab)users in this thread.
Stupid mechanic IMO. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
434
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:22:00 -
[268] - Quote
Gunship wrote:....Boosting modules should have a max range when fitted on a ship. Example 100Km default , the up to 150km with best skills Would prefer it be the default grid size to give them at least some space-buffer while people re-learn how to pilot a ship that needs to be there but necessarily do much other than just that.
Biggest hurdle will be Grid-Fu shenanigans .. some insane defensive options exist regardless of solution to links (range, grid or combination).
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Please CCPz dont forget to remove all implants and ammo and ships. I demand heads or tails in space. Simple as that. Wonder of the FoTM lobbies will ever update their talking point slides .. I swear it has been the same nonsense every time a change has been proposed/discussed since I started |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
68
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 15:55:00 -
[269] - Quote
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Please CCPz dont forget to remove all implants and ammo and ships. I demand heads or tails in space. Simple as that. Cannot win without 2 boosters sitting in POS? |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
879
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:33:00 -
[270] - Quote
So much hate. They announced the 5% will go to 2%. That is a pretty significant nerf. I say make it so that if you leave the presence of your booster the effects fade after 'x' amount of time and call it good. |
|
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
75
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 12:59:00 -
[271] - Quote
Vizvig wrote:jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Please CCPz dont forget to remove all implants and ammo and ships. I demand heads or tails in space. Simple as that. Cannot win without 2 boosters sitting in POS?
Your not that far off Vizvig but you and I probably have very different definitions of ''winning'':
These days I want to enjoy my fights, not necessarily 'win' them as you might see it. ''Winning'' to me is being able to take and get a lot fights in the first place (irrespective of the final outcome of those fights) and to have a reasonable chance of enjoying myself during those fights (ie not helplessly dying in the first 15 seconds).
Does removal of OGB reduce the ability to take fights in the first place against a numerically superior force? Yes, definitely - so i guess you are partially correct. But I see anything that reduces engagement envelopes downwards towards numerical advantage as a ''lose'' - because larger gang fighting is not the way i primarily tend to play the game any more. Personally, I cant see the fun whilst not making your own decisions.
The majority of people (myself included) will be able to deal with changes though Vizviq. Your not having my stuffz! Most people can and will continue to adapt play styles, approaches, ship fits, gang comps, tactics, and thinking as they have always done with change.
Overwhelmingly, change is good and will probably open up new doors in the longer term to creative thinkers. I think a larger rude awakening will come for the F1 hysteria brigade who think that OGB is the only reason they are 'losing' fights in the first place. When OGB goes, where are all these people going to hide next? |
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Cult of Escobar
130
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 01:22:00 -
[272] - Quote
I hate OGB but I wouldn't mind as much if there was a visual effect. Less fun for me and everyone else that I just skip systems with possible boosting ships on scan. |
Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
121
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 12:05:00 -
[273] - Quote
The forums and EFT are full of fits that are "meant for T3 boosts", that's an awesome sign of balanced gameplay. As a long time abuser of offgrid Loki boosts, I think the mechanic is ******* ********. You guys crying about how any change favors the blob are bad. In ye olde days proper nano gangs would have a Claymore in fleet and on grid AND they would still take on blobs.
The reality is off grid boosts punish new and/or poor players. They're bad, and you should feel bad. You bads. |
Corelyn
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 18:09:00 -
[274] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:The forums and EFT are full of fits that are "meant for T3 boosts", that's an awesome sign of balanced gameplay. As a long time abuser of offgrid Loki boosts, I think the mechanic is ******* ********. You guys crying about how any change favors the blob are bad. In ye olde days proper nano gangs would have a Claymore in fleet and on grid AND they would still take on blobs.
The reality is off grid boosts punish new and/or poor players. They're bad, and you should feel bad. You bads.
Everyone agrees. But the users want to keep using.
The EvE Buffbot can't stay. |
Batelle
Aliastra
106
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 19:32:00 -
[275] - Quote
I don't necessarily mind offgrid boosting in principal, nor do I mind that the boosts are significant. However, under no circumstances should you be able to activate booster modules from inside a pos forcefield, and under no circumstances should it require virtues and max skills to probe down a t3 booster. If someone is offgrid boosting, then they should be probably and killable. If you need virtues to scan down a ship, then even with virtues scanning them down will be slow. OGBs are expensive ships that take lots of skills to train, but the chatter seems to be that the payoff is huge and the risk is minimal. The question is then how to properly address OGBs ?
reduce boost range to 14.5 AU - I don't really like this idea. The benefit is that the proper use of OGBs would require a bit more thought, and anyone fighting you will be sure to know you've got an OGB.
increase sig radius or reduce sensor strength when activating a gang boost module - I really like this idea since you can turn off your boosts to avoid being scanned, but it would harm balance of on-grid booster ships, which would be unfortunate.
Further adjust scanning formula so that virtues are never a requirement - I prefer "hard to scan" over "impossible without virtues and max skills."
Also, I don't really like the idea of an offgrid booster bouncing safes while pursued by probers with his boosts staying active. Its easier to bounce safes than to chase a guy bouncing safes. The consolation is that the guy bouncing safes is useless, but if he's boosting at 100% effectiveness, then that's a problem. I don't know the best way to address this, I don't know if capacitor becomes a factor in maintaining boosts, or if warping short distances makes it easier for the probe guy to track you, just food for thought. The Golem - The "Meh" of Marauders |
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
81
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 22:23:00 -
[276] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I don't necessarily mind offgrid boosting in principal, nor do I mind that the boosts are significant. However, under no circumstances should you be able to activate booster modules from inside a pos forcefield, and under no circumstances should it require virtues and max skills to probe down a t3 booster. If someone is offgrid boosting, then they should be probably and killable. If you need virtues to scan down a ship, then even with virtues scanning them down will be slow. OGBs are expensive ships that take lots of skills to train, but the chatter seems to be that the payoff is huge and the risk is minimal. The question is then how to properly address OGBs ?
reduce boost range to 14.5 AU - I don't really like this idea. The benefit is that the proper use of OGBs would require a bit more thought, and anyone fighting you will be sure to know you've got an OGB.
increase sig radius or reduce sensor strength when activating a gang boost module - I really like this idea since you can turn off your boosts to avoid being scanned, but it would harm balance of on-grid booster ships, which would be unfortunate.
Further adjust scanning formula so that virtues are never a requirement - I prefer "hard to scan" over "impossible without virtues and max skills."
Also, I don't really like the idea of an offgrid booster bouncing safes while pursued by probers with his boosts staying active. Its easier to bounce safes than to chase a guy bouncing safes. The consolation is that the guy bouncing safes is useless, but if he's boosting at 100% effectiveness, then that's a problem. I don't know the best way to address this, I don't know if capacitor becomes a factor in maintaining boosts, or if warping short distances makes it easier for the probe guy to track you, just food for thought.
tl dr
problem is not ogb, problem is that your Loki works from 64 AU, but my Scorpion does not. We need ECM to get balanced! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:06:00 -
[277] - Quote
Zoe Panala wrote:tl dr
problem is not ogb, problem is that your Loki works from 64 AU, but my Scorpion does not. We need ECM to get balanced! Don't forget logistics and all other action that influence action directly or indirectly (ie. everything in EVe )
|
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
216
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 06:22:00 -
[278] - Quote
You can't scan down a cloaked ship.
Currently off-grid boosting provides almost 0 risk and reams of benefits. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
68
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 14:42:00 -
[279] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:The forums and EFT are full of fits that are "meant for T3 boosts", that's an awesome sign of balanced gameplay. As a long time abuser of offgrid Loki boosts, I think the mechanic is ******* ********. You guys crying about how any change favors the blob are bad. In ye olde days proper nano gangs would have a Claymore in fleet and on grid AND they would still take on blobs.
The reality is off grid boosts punish new and/or poor players. They're bad, and you should feel bad. You bads. Thats true.
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Does removal of OGB reduce that ability to take fights in the first place against a numerically superior force? Yes, definitely Let say the truth.
Those who use ogb mostly time sitting in single system, and ganking noobgangs without ogb, ant they are rapidly dying out.
Now poor but experienced gang prefer dont take a fight against hostile gang with the same numbers, they prefer gank single ships.
Why?
Try to bite off something from nagafleet w boost and couple of logistics. Why you will to do while all gangs become boosted? I know: you will be ganking cyno's. |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
230
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 15:33:00 -
[280] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:You can't scan down a cloaked ship.
Currently off-grid boosting provides almost 0 risk and reams of benefits.
I to boost while cloaked come back when you have a clue
to make the t3 hard to scan takes full implant set and sig mods and even then they are not impossible to scan down just alot harder to
and all this crap about ogb in pos yea like we take a pos with us on roams lul
all these lazy and tight fisted players to useless and lasy to invest in they own ogb toon and just cry nurf your just as bad as the carbare crying for change
but wotevrt we who use ogb will adapt same as we allways have
what will be the next thing you pansys cry to nurf i wonder my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |
|
Riven Varlass
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:46:00 -
[281] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:Xuixien wrote:You can't scan down a cloaked ship.
Currently off-grid boosting provides almost 0 risk and reams of benefits. I to boost while cloaked come back when you have a clue to make the t3 hard to scan takes full implant set and sig mods and even then they are not impossible to scan down just alot harder to and all this crap about ogb in pos yea like we take a pos with us on roams lul all these lazy and tight fisted players to useless and lasy to invest in they own ogb toon and just cry nurf your just as bad as the carbare crying for change but wotevrt we who use ogb will adapt same as we allways have what will be the next thing you pansys cry to nurf i wonder also ppl claiming ogb is unfair on new or poorer players is bullsh#t just like hg slaves are unfair on poor or or low sp player or t2 ammo to low sp player or faction mods to poor player comon be real for the time invested and isk and r.l money ogb are fine
Everyone without an OGB are as you say: " to useless and lasy to invest in they own OGB toon".
Indeed sir, you found the problem. |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
235
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 15:15:00 -
[282] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Quote:Moving over to Command ships, CCP Ytterbium addressed the concern of off grid links and simply stated GÇ£off grid boosting should not existGÇ¥, with much of the CSM nodding in agreement. I am glad CCP Ytter and much of the CSM agree with my position.
well mr.Ytter is probably the biggest catastrophe which happened to EVE in last 3 years ... all his proposals and changes caused either economical or game disballance (and was usually fixed by quick/fastforward/turbo breaking patches), I really hope he will not stick his bloody nose into direct gameplay things. And I also hope he will be moved to some place of EVE where they need his extraordinary skills and intelligence more .... like industrial sector or salvaging (you know that part of game which also needs some fixing and changes). IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Sylvia Nardieu
audacity.
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 15:48:00 -
[283] - Quote
psycho freak wrote: to make the t3 hard to scan takes full implant set and sig mods and even then they are not impossible to scan down just alot harder to
Well "harder" imho is an understatement, "close to impossible" is more like it.
To scan down T3 fitted for counter-scanning you need a perfect scanning skills char with full Virtue set (2bil) and +10 astronometric hardwirings, and then that guy has to get a .5 lock on top of the booster. Now to get such close lock you'll need at least three passes (and I'm being generous here) if you do system-wide scans or two if you use d-scan to get closer. Either case that's anywhere form 15 seconds to one minute of combat probes being out which is more then enough for anyone paying attention to cloak up. Yes it can be done, but it requires a major f***up by whomever is flying booster.
I'll lol ahead at the obvious troll with "l2p, d-scan your way to close on prober" comment as d-scanning usually involves several additional minutes of warping and bm-ing around during which the fights usually end and the gang moves on/booster cloaks up.
So, in short - T3 boosting is indeed horribly broken atm, there is no reasonable counter to it and it should be dealt with. My suggestion would be for command processors to bloom the size of the ship by 100-150m so it reaches size scannable by your average lvl4-probing skills char. As for OGB boosting in general, I'm not so much against it as long as the ship providing bonuses can be found and engaged (hence, no POS combat boosting either, I'd leave industrial boosts alone) . Plus I'd give boosting ship weapons flag when it engages its links, so that station/gate hugging and docking/jumping boosters on first sight of trouble becomes impossible. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
50
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 16:45:00 -
[284] - Quote
IMO we should make ganglinks into passive modules so they can run while the ship is cloaked.
That would have the effect of letting you run booster t3s alongside your blops gangs AND it would make two entirely different sets of forum whiners cry epic tears and maybe even ragequit.
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
900
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 17:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:IMO we should make ganglinks into passive modules so they can run while the ship is cloaked.
That would have the effect of letting you run booster t3s alongside your blops gangs AND it would make two entirely different sets of forum whiners cry epic tears and maybe even ragequit.
Do you even lift? |
Devon Krah'tor
Magis.Erudire.Ratus.Knoen
49
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 00:52:00 -
[286] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:IMO we should make ganglinks into passive modules so they can run while the ship is cloaked.
That would have the effect of letting you run booster t3s alongside your blops gangs AND it would make two entirely different sets of forum whiners cry epic tears and maybe even ragequit.
Even better, have each booster t3 stack its bonuses, even if they're the same skill/module! that way whoever can afford the most booster alts wins! CCP will love it. Greater.Insight.Skill.Knowledge |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
235
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 10:28:00 -
[287] - Quote
Devon Krah'tor wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:IMO we should make ganglinks into passive modules so they can run while the ship is cloaked.
That would have the effect of letting you run booster t3s alongside your blops gangs AND it would make two entirely different sets of forum whiners cry epic tears and maybe even ragequit.
Even better, have each booster t3 stack its bonuses, even if they're the same skill/module! that way whoever can afford the most booster alts wins! CCP will love it.
exactly ROFL .... return of the nanoage .... 12kms vagas or 20km drams ..... pvp without boosters will be impossible (so everyone will get the alt) . first step of the fight will be to spread around the grid and try to decloak the booster. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Hastemal Nisk
Dragon Clan Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 13:10:00 -
[288] - Quote
How about no boosting inside POS shield, flags transfer to boosting ships and off grid boosting only by capitals? Would alleviate the Rorqual issue while still leaving all boosting somewhat to fairly vulnerable, and giving capitals something meaningful to do. |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
103
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 14:26:00 -
[289] - Quote
OGB was on of CCP's biggest mistakes I'm now waiting for the XXXXL Titan that requires 10 Alt's in it, can only engage warp once every 2 weeks, but that won't be a problem since it's going to spend 99.9999999% of its time in a POS wondering WTF happened? Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
|
Ares Desideratus
Exiled Assassins
88
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 01:10:00 -
[290] - Quote
blahblahblahblahblah I'm an ignorant non-believer and I live in my grandma's garage. When people see things differently, misunderstandings happen. Everybody wins when you blob PvP! |
|
Blitzalpha Khurelem
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 02:42:00 -
[291] - Quote
just turn active links into pos modules - and take the active link skills into the corp training q
give CS and T3 some sort of passive module and an extra highslot for the modules only to sweeten the deal
the rest ... i dunno |
Sucateira
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 12:42:00 -
[292] - Quote
I don't really know why I keep paying to play this game. I'm a casual player so I mostly fly around solo (I know... I shouldn't), but everytime I come to the forums, since 3 years ago.. all I read is:
"Get an account for scouting" "Get an account for ewar" "Get an account for boosting" "Get an account for plexing" "Get an account for etc..."
Even with an account of almost 3 years old, I feel pretty much a newb due to the limited time I have to play and learn the game, and I keep getting the feeling that no matter how I try, I'll allways be f******d by players with more RL cash to sink into this game.
EVE p2w much? |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
128
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 13:54:00 -
[293] - Quote
Sucateira wrote:I don't really know why I keep paying to play this game. I'm a casual player so I mostly fly around solo (I know... I shouldn't), but everytime I come to the forums, since 3 years ago.. all I read is:
"Get an account for scouting" "Get an account for ewar" "Get an account for boosting" "Get an account for plexing" "Get an account for etc..."
Even with an account of almost 3 years old, I feel pretty much a newb due to the limited time I have to play and learn the game, and I keep getting the feeling that no matter how I try, I'll allways be f******d by players with more RL cash to sink into this game.
EVE p2w much?
You can always give up, join a big corp and be the 27th irrelevant little noobie on the killmails when one of the players with 6 accounts lose a ship. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
316
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:10:00 -
[294] - Quote
Remove offgrid boosting If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2314
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 23:59:00 -
[295] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Sucateira wrote:I don't really know why I keep paying to play this game. I'm a casual player so I mostly fly around solo (I know... I shouldn't), but everytime I come to the forums, since 3 years ago.. all I read is:
"Get an account for scouting" "Get an account for ewar" "Get an account for boosting" "Get an account for plexing" "Get an account for etc..."
Even with an account of almost 3 years old, I feel pretty much a newb due to the limited time I have to play and learn the game, and I keep getting the feeling that no matter how I try, I'll allways be f******d by players with more RL cash to sink into this game.
EVE p2w much? You can always give up, join a big corp and be the 27th irrelevant little noobie on the killmails when one of the players with 6 accounts lose a ship. Translation: You can always work with others to achieve your goals more easily, and gain some friends and socialize at the same time, too.
Eve is not made to be a solo game -- particularly not in PvP. There is no development effort afforded to solo "balance"; almost everything is made with groups of people in mind. You are supposed to work with others, or be at a severe disadvantage. That disadvantage can be mitigated if you play with yourself by paying for a zillion alts (like Cynthia does).
There are 3 paths to PvP:
- "True" solo, using only one account, and one character. This is fairly rare, due to its success rates being low. Very difficult, but not impossible.
- "Solo", using multiple accounts/characters, but not usually directly collaborating with others. This is pretty common, particularly in areas where "true" solo PvPers may be found (due to the advantage it confers). Most pro~ PvPers fall into this category.
- "Gang", using multiple people, possibly with multiple accounts (but not usually due to limited multitasking attention span). This is most common, and can be subdivided into "small gang", "large gang", "fleet", "sov warfare", "blob", etc., depending on various factors like the composition/size of the fleet, experience of the members, location where it is happening, and intended targets.
To be noted is that, while the setup of some fleets does diminish the role of the individual via excessive restrictions (discipline, selective ship choice, fleet commander anal-retentiveness), fleets managed correctly have no "irrelevant" members -- regardless of age or ship. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Sucateira
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 02:02:00 -
[296] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Sucateira wrote:I don't really know why I keep paying to play this game. I'm a casual player so I mostly fly around solo (I know... I shouldn't), but everytime I come to the forums, since 3 years ago.. all I read is:
"Get an account for scouting" "Get an account for ewar" "Get an account for boosting" "Get an account for plexing" "Get an account for etc..."
Even with an account of almost 3 years old, I feel pretty much a newb due to the limited time I have to play and learn the game, and I keep getting the feeling that no matter how I try, I'll allways be f******d by players with more RL cash to sink into this game.
EVE p2w much? You can always give up, join a big corp and be the 27th irrelevant little noobie on the killmails when one of the players with 6 accounts lose a ship. Translation: You can always work with others to achieve your goals more easily, and gain some friends and socialize at the same time, too. Eve is not made to be a solo game -- particularly not in PvP. There is no development effort afforded to solo "balance"; almost everything is made with groups of people in mind. You are supposed to work with others, or be at a severe disadvantage. That disadvantage can be mitigated if you play with yourself by paying for a zillion alts (like Cynthia does). There are 3 paths to PvP:
- "True" solo, using only one account, and one character. This is fairly rare, due to its success rates being low. Very difficult, but not impossible.
- "Solo", using multiple accounts/characters, but not usually directly collaborating with others. This is pretty common, particularly in areas where "true" solo PvPers may be found (due to the advantage it confers). Most pro~ PvPers fall into this category.
- "Gang", using multiple people, possibly with multiple accounts (but not usually due to limited multitasking attention span). This is most common, and can be subdivided into "small gang", "large gang", "fleet", "sov warfare", "blob", etc., depending on various factors like the composition/size of the fleet, experience of the members, location where it is happening, and intended targets.
To be noted is that, while the setup of some fleets does diminish the role of the individual via excessive restrictions (discipline, selective ship choice, fleet commander anal-retentiveness), fleets managed correctly have no "irrelevant" members -- regardless of age or ship.
I really don't need a scientific explanation to tell me that I can't play this game "solo". But like I risk my ships around, I would like others to risk theirs also. Having whatever alts hidden somewhere in time to give advantage in his "solo" brave adventure... doesn't sound all that brave suddenly. |
GreenSeed
154
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Posted - 2013.01.14 03:05:00 -
[297] - Quote
anyone who thinks offgrid boosting is "fine" and can be probed is not being serious... a t3 boosting alt flying aligned to a pos can be eventually probed, but a 20 sec warp is more than enough to relocate the alt, not to mention the ONLY thing that should be fitted in lows are stabs.
same with any other booster, align and warp as son as someone lands.
off grid boosting has to go, either make boosting on grid with a 150km - 200km range, or remove it and replace it with a more up close linking system with proper modifiers. |
Ma Zhiqiang
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.19 09:43:00 -
[298] - Quote
I've skimmed through the pages here and yet not seen these ideas:
Make warfare links 1. have effect when not active but with 50% less bonuses than current effects. 2. when activated they give 100% (as current effects) bonus with 5 min activation time. During this time the ship can't move or warp.
^^ |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 10:17:00 -
[299] - Quote
People are arguing that because it helps gangs survive against blobs off-grid boosting should stay. This is a fallacy. Just because a broken mechanic helps people to fight against unfavourable odds doesn't mean it should stick around. The correct way to go about it is to remove the broken mechanic and then look at what could be done to make sure small gangs remain viable. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
504
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 10:34:00 -
[300] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:anyone who thinks offgrid boosting is "fine" and can be probed is not being serious... a t3 boosting alt flying aligned to a pos can be eventually probed, but a 20 sec warp is more than enough to relocate the alt, not to mention the ONLY thing that should be fitted in lows are stabs.
same with any other booster, align and warp as son as someone lands.
off grid boosting has to go, either make boosting on grid with a 150km - 200km range, or remove it and replace it with a more up close linking system with proper modifiers.
Only stabs? More evidence that people who want ogb removed havent a single clue about them. |
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Hidden Snake
Hidden Squid Society
273
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Posted - 2013.02.19 11:51:00 -
[301] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:People are arguing that because it helps gangs survive against blobs off-grid boosting should stay. This is a fallacy. Just because a broken mechanic helps people to fight against unfavourable odds doesn't mean it should stick around. The correct way to go about it is to remove the broken mechanic and then look at what could be done to make sure small gangs remain viable.
u like blobs? probably yes.
point is that boosting on grid is ok if you fight lets say 3-4 (they will not kill booster fast enough), however if you kite 30-60 man blob on grid booster will be dead in seconds + blob will have its own boosting pretty safe. So yes OGB is quite ok if you fix the crazy numbers T3s giving you. Option is that boosting modules can increase your sig radius (of the booster) so they will be easier to probe.
But I must repeat my thesis, that OGB cry havoc has source in blobbears who dont want to be annoyed by smaller gangs (which is probably the most fun of EVE, when you can show the blob middlefinger and try to pick weak and stupid from the blob).
I SAY DONT LISTEN TO THE BLOB, LISTEN TO THE PILOTS! |
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 22:46:00 -
[302] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:
But I must repeat my thesis, that OGB cry havoc has source in blobbears who dont want to be annoyed by smaller gangs (which is probably the most fun of EVE, when you can show the blob middlefinger and try to pick weak and stupid from the blob).
I SAY DONT LISTEN TO THE BLOB, LISTEN TO THE PILOTS!
You're actually wrong.
OGB's both reward and punish blobs in equal measure, depending on the situation. A big fleet wants/needs its boosters running whenever possible and is it a huge disadvantage if it doesn't have them. OGBs basically reward defenders over attackers regardless of fleet size, and I can't say if thats a good thing or not to be honest, just that it is what it is. |
Mister Tuggles
Prime Numbers
32
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:37:00 -
[303] - Quote
Boosting bonus should be based on how close your booster is to the actual ship(s) it is boosting.
These are just arbitrary numbers pulled out of my ass, but you get the idea.
Booster distance from fleet:
50k = 100% of the boost 51k-100k = 70% 101k-200k = 40% > 200k = 25%
This could possibly force people to fly boosters on grid which would, in most cases, give you the ability to take out the booster if you desire. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:45:00 -
[304] - Quote
Valea Silpha wrote:Hidden Snake wrote:
But I must repeat my thesis, that OGB cry havoc has source in blobbears who dont want to be annoyed by smaller gangs (which is probably the most fun of EVE, when you can show the blob middlefinger and try to pick weak and stupid from the blob).
I SAY DONT LISTEN TO THE BLOB, LISTEN TO THE PILOTS!
You're actually wrong. OGB's both reward and punish blobs in equal measure, depending on the situation. A big fleet wants/needs its boosters running whenever possible and is it a huge disadvantage if it doesn't have them. OGBs basically reward defenders over attackers regardless of fleet size, and I can't say if thats a good thing or not to be honest, just that it is what it is.
Blobs will almost always have a booster ship. Small groups usualy don't. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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