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The Elimination of the Battleship from EVE.

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Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.22 11:26:00 - [391] EHPDPSSpeedAlign Trist20009327003.8 Cat350016816006.5 Rax800032013009.3 Myrm20000372111212.6 Mega3200046096018.6 These are stats of gallente ships from frig to bs, fitted with t1 neutrons and a t1 mwd. As you can see the align times on the ships are fairly uniform in scale until you get to the BS, where it jumps from a step of around 3 seconds per class to 6 seconds from bc to bs (200% penalty). Adjusting the battleship to 15 seconds would be a fair and decent buff. The EHP jumps roughly by 100% until you get to battleships where it jumps only by 33%. Adjusting battleship to be more in line with progression would be a fair and decent buff. Dps looks fine as it is. After adjustements it would look like this: EHPDPSSpeedAlign Trist20009327003.8 Cat350016816006.5 Rax800032013009.3 Myrm20000372111212.6 Mega4000046096015.6 --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Hildulfr	Posted - 2010.12.25 16:51:00 - [392] One change, I would say a battleship should have 100% more armor and shields than any battle cruiser and as a result greater EHP. Battleships were designed to take punishment far greater than any other class of ships and keep the firepower coming. Heavier armor and greater compartmentalization. There have been battle cruisers and cruisers with serious firepower, but few with serious armor, and most retreated at the site of a battleship on the horizon. The longer a battleship can fire and manage drones the greater the threat. Lots of other ideas, but that's at the top of the list. Hild
Lili Lu	Posted - 2010.12.25 17:41:00 - [393] Originally by: Infinity Ziona EHPDPSSpeedAlign Trist20009327003.8 Cat350016816006.5 Rax800032013009.3 Myrm20000372111212.6 Mega3200046096018.6 These are stats of gallente ships from frig to bs, fitted with t1 neutrons and a t1 mwd. As you can see the align times on the ships are fairly uniform in scale until you get to the BS, where it jumps from a step of around 3 seconds per class to 6 seconds from bc to bs (200% penalty). Adjusting the battleship to 15 seconds would be a fair and decent buff. The EHP jumps roughly by 100% until you get to battleships where it jumps only by 33%. Adjusting battleship to be more in line with progression would be a fair and decent buff. Dps looks fine as it is. After adjustements it would look like this: EHPDPSSpeedAlign Trist20009327003.8 Cat350016816006.5 Rax800032013009.3 Myrm20000372111212.6 Mega4000046096015.6 Assuming the numbers are all correct this is a good analysis of where BSs could be buffed. EHP Tank increased, and align time reduced. A BS tank should be much stronger than any BC. As you point out it would be consistent with the pattern CCP appeared to have instituted anyway and then failed to follow, and no reason to make BSs have only barely higher EHP or in the case of the Drake almost equivalent. Also, yes the BS align time has been stupidly exagerated in the current state of affairs.
Target Painter Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.12.25 23:18:00 - [394] Originally by: Lili Lu Assuming the numbers are all correct this is a good analysis of where BSs could be buffed. EHP Tank increased, and align time reduced. A BS tank should be much stronger than any BC. As you point out it would be consistent with the pattern CCP appeared to have instituted anyway and then failed to follow, and no reason to make BSs have only barely higher EHP or in the case of the Drake almost equivalent. Also, yes the BS align time has been stupidly exagerated in the current state of affairs. How do you prevent this from being a stealth Minmatar nerf? Seeing as how the main advantage they have at the BS level is the ability to alpha right through reps and instapop the primary. Right now, it's doable with 6-8 BSes (I ♥ mah arty mach) but once HP buffed, it'll go out of the realm of small gangs entirely.
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.25 23:56:00 - [395] OP, you have my condolences that neither you nor anyone you know is clever enough to figure out how to use battleships in PVP.
Lili Lu	Posted - 2010.12.26 00:25:00 - [396] Originally by: Lyris Nairn OP, you have my condolences that neither you nor anyone you know is clever enough to figure out how to use battleships in PVP. Like DHB Wildcat doesn't know how to use BSs and Lyris Nairn does. Oh look at that 11 kills with a BS but 38 with a Drake. Yeah we should definitely credit everything you say about BSs or hell any ship with loads of pvp experience you have to back up your trolling.
Lili Lu	Posted - 2010.12.26 00:36:00 - [397] Originally by: Target Painter Originally by: Lili Lu Assuming the numbers are all correct this is a good analysis of where BSs could be buffed. EHP Tank increased, and align time reduced. A BS tank should be much stronger than any BC. As you point out it would be consistent with the pattern CCP appeared to have instituted anyway and then failed to follow, and no reason to make BSs have only barely higher EHP or in the case of the Drake almost equivalent. Also, yes the BS align time has been stupidly exagerated in the current state of affairs. How do you prevent this from being a stealth Minmatar nerf? Seeing as how the main advantage they have at the BS level is the ability to alpha right through reps and instapop the primary. Right now, it's doable with 6-8 BSes (I ♥ mah arty mach) but once HP buffed, it'll go out of the realm of small gangs entirely. I don't know maybe bring 10-12 BSs? Is there any guarantee in the game that 1400s on 6-8 ships should instapop everything or anything for that matter? I was just responding to the post I quoted which brought up a break in a design pattern that could be part of the problem BSs as a class face in the game at this time. Yes there are other problems. Yes an hp buff for BSs would lessen the ability of 6-8 Tempests or whatever to alpha an un-buffered BS. I really don't see this as a problem compared to the diminution of an entire class of ships that we have now - a class that takes a long time to skill into properly and should be an apex of training in the game.
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:07:00 - [398] Edited by: Lyris Nairn on 26/12/2010 02:09:12 Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Lyris Nairn OP, you have my condolences that neither you nor anyone you know is clever enough to figure out how to use battleships in PVP. Like DHB Wildcat doesn't know how to use BSs and Lyris Nairn does. Oh look at that 11 kills with a BS but 38 with a Drake. Yeah we should definitely credit everything you say about BSs or hell any ship with loads of pvp experience you have to back up your trolling. Where's the thread by Lyris Nairn complaining about battlehips? Edit: So you're saying that the fact he has a lot of PVP kills using battleships lends credence to the claim that battleships have no place in PVP?
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:16:00 - [399] Originally by: Lyris Nairn Edited by: Lyris Nairn on 26/12/2010 02:09:12 Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Lyris Nairn OP, you have my condolences that neither you nor anyone you know is clever enough to figure out how to use battleships in PVP. Like DHB Wildcat doesn't know how to use BSs and Lyris Nairn does. Oh look at that 11 kills with a BS but 38 with a Drake. Yeah we should definitely credit everything you say about BSs or hell any ship with loads of pvp experience you have to back up your trolling. Where's the thread by Lyris Nairn complaining about battlehips? Edit: So you're saying that the fact he has a lot of PVP kills using battleships lends credence to the claim that battleships have no place in PVP? Pay attention: He's saying that you told the OP (a guy that has lots of kills with battleships) that he doesn't know how to use battleships in PVP - when you yourself don't know how. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:22:00 - [400] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyris Nairn Edited by: Lyris Nairn on 26/12/2010 02:09:12 Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Lyris Nairn OP, you have my condolences that neither you nor anyone you know is clever enough to figure out how to use battleships in PVP. Like DHB Wildcat doesn't know how to use BSs and Lyris Nairn does. Oh look at that 11 kills with a BS but 38 with a Drake. Yeah we should definitely credit everything you say about BSs or hell any ship with loads of pvp experience you have to back up your trolling. Where's the thread by Lyris Nairn complaining about battlehips? Edit: So you're saying that the fact he has a lot of PVP kills using battleships lends credence to the claim that battleships have no place in PVP? Pay attention: He's saying that you told the OP (a guy that has lots of kills with battleships) that he doesn't know how to use battleships in PVP - when you yourself don't know how. -Liang The OP's entire premise is that no oneùincluding himselfùcan possibly know how to use them in PVP because they are bad in PVP.

Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:26:00 - [401] Originally by: Lyris Nairn The OP's entire premise is that no oneùincluding himselfùcan possibly know how to use them in PVP because they are bad in PVP. I see. You have a reading comprehension issue. Carry on. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:27:00 - [402] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyris Nairn The OP's entire premise is that no oneùincluding himselfùcan possibly know how to use them in PVP because they are bad in PVP. I see. You have a reading comprehension issue. Carry on. -Liang I have a snarky person on the other side of the Internet from me.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:30:00 - [403] Originally by: Lyris Nairn I have a snarky person on the other side of the Internet from me. Only one? -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.26 02:31:00 - [404] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyris Nairn I have a snarky person on the other side of the Internet from me. Only one? Only one I'm talking to right now.
drake duka Minmatar Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.12.26 03:05:00 - [405] Edited by: drake duka on 26/12/2010 03:07:49 The only major thing wrong with BS IMO is the insane cap usage of mwd for bs. A drake or cane can go for 4-5 minutes straight without running a mwd, a bs maybe 1-2? You have to fit a cap booster if you want to move any sort of distance. Also the agility of bs's are abysmal compared to bc's, there should probably be an agility buff. Mobility is one of the main reasons bs's aren't fielded, if you're outgunned in a bs fleet there's a much lower chance of retreating safely than with a bc fleet. I think the ehp is fine really, drake is the only bc that comes close to bs ehp and it comes close and that's with all but one mid dedicated to tank. Also, it comes close only to the tempest (if we're talking about tanked up fits). Granted, the drake is easily 1/3 the price. Also, I think the tracking/explosion radius,velocity for bs sized weapons should get a slight buff. ofc dhb wildcat has no idea what he's talking about, he only has 1000+ kills in battleships he obviously doing it wrong.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2010.12.26 16:13:00 - [406] I have lost just as many 1 VS 1 fights in a Battleship than I have won. So by no means am I some Battleship god, and please dont think I believe that I am. I do however feel I have a good understanding of battleship mechanics and capabilities than most in this game. Solely based on the fact that that is all I used to fly. I have fought against every ship in this game in a battleship and titans still insta pop me with shear rage! lol Anyways the point is that the battleship due to several nerfs to its class and buffs to other classes, has become incapable of doing its job. Yes it once was able to fight 2-3 BC, 5-6 cruisers and win. It never eally could hit frigs and your drones would be killed the second they were launched, so frigs always posed an issue. However the point now to were the major HP buff from a few years ago, along with tracking nerfs / missile nerfs / and web nerfs along with the major lack of mobility have made this ship impossible to do anything alone. Every other ship class can do things relatively solo without issue. Other than running into a larger gang, or more numbers, but they can still tackle and retreat if needed. The battleship is stuck there really with n o hope other than to call for frineds to save them. So with a hefty price tag and the need for other ships / people to play the game, why would / should anyone use a battleship obsolete by every other class in the game, instead of a cheaper ship that does the same job maybe even a little better?
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.30 11:29:00 - [407] I would like to see further correspondence on this topic.
ItsMeMarioo	Posted - 2010.12.30 12:28:00 - [408] Wtf is the thread, with pl's hellcat baddon owning everything, and deklein coalition switching from drake to maelstrom ?
Lyris Nairn Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.30 12:40:00 - [409] Originally by: ItsMeMarioo Wtf is the thread, with pl's hellcat baddon owning everything, and deklein coalition switching from drake to maelstrom ? Some guy with a lot of battleship killmails thinks battleships are dead in PVP.


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