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DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:11:00 -
[31]
Ephemeron is somewhat right about the nano nerf. It did eliminate funny set-ups for battleships that were fun to fly and unique.
Also Ephy.... remember I didnt why about the nano nerf. I was its biggest exploiter! My nano CNR would have ****d your nano mach 8) lol!
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Ephemeron is somewhat right about the nano nerf. It did eliminate funny set-ups for battleships that were fun to fly and unique.
Also Ephy.... remember I didnt why about the nano nerf. I was its biggest exploiter! My nano CNR would have ****d your nano mach 8) lol!
Doubt it, as my nano Machs were built to sustain tank at least 700 dps and there was room for 1 heavy neut. Unless you tricked our your CNR specifically for dealing with nano machs, it'd be dead for sure
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:39:00 -
[33]
You know I just realized why battleships are obsolete... Titans stopped doing AOE tankable damage. Those old doomsdays made battleships the only sub-cap ships that could have both EHP and DPS to threaten a titan. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:49:00 -
[34]
I find the lock time on a BS pretty backwards... they are suppose to be larger, so have better sensors?
And how can a frig even kill a BS solo? It's laughable.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 06:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 07/12/2010 06:28:11 Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 07/12/2010 06:27:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
2) proliferation of caps and supercap. There are so many of them it's ridiculous. And every noob in a farmer Raven can fit a cyno and be safe knowing that when he lights up, his friendly titan bridge or carrier fleet will immediately appear from 15 jumps away.
If you just try roaming in battleship now, you'll get hot dropped within 2 hours for certain. Even if you fly some expensive t2 or t3 ship, they'll hotdrop you just cause they got nothing better to do.
And CCP in the infinite stupidity never thought of adding some kind of mobile cyno jammer to counter such easy and lame tactic.
QFT.
Sadly, still very few people really understand what's going on. Titan hot-drops are absolutely non-counterable. Unless of course you consider getting your own BLOB+Titan as a counter (which it shouldn't be). ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
oldmanst4r
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.07 06:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Czar Marcus ECM - It sucks in small gangs/solo, but that's never going to change. Being jammed has always and will always suck. Solution : - Fit Countermeasures and cross your fingers or use ECM drones and hope you jam them.
Tracking issues - Vs what? Other battleships? Nope. Battlecruisers? Nope. Cruisers? Not really, but these ships weren't designed for that anyways. Frigates? Sure, but battleships weren't designed for that and you do have a drone bay for a reason.....Cruise missile DPS is fine. It's designed for long range damage. Torps are designed for short range. It's the same as the difference between heavy and assaults. Assaults do high dps, but are short range. You can hit with cruise and torps. If you're fighting stuff that's flying faster than you're missiles then sick your drones on them or suck it up. Nobody ever said eve was fair or that there was one ship to rule them all.
What? Both shield tanking and armor tanking are fine for fleets. Both are effective. AB Armor HAC fleets are incredibly effective too.
Probing? What? Really?
At this point I'm going to stop replying to your points and just let you know what the rest of the community is thinking.
This is one/all of 4 problems:
A) Your FC's suck and can't manage their fleets B) You suck and don't understand that EVE isn't WoW and not everything is going to be balanced all the time for your particular needs C) If you all have Moms and Titans then why are you complaining? They are immune to ECM anyways. Go fighter bomb/DD stuff. D) All of the above
Honestly, I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say it's D. If you really have SOOOOO many titans, moms, carriers, star destroyers, and everything else in the world then you wouldn't be as upset as you are.
My old corps flew battleship fleets all of the time and were incredibly successful. Sometimes you win and sometimes you explode.
Welcome to Eve.
Let me go over your points again. You...
1. Claim that DHB & co don't own supercaps. 2. Claim that DHB & co can't FC. 3. Claim that DHB thinks EVE is WoW. 4. Welcomed DHB to EVE.
Everyone together.....
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Hmmm... I have to agree. Here's some thoughts (a few more than I originally estimated!): - BCs deliver near BS performance at a fraction of the price (BS modules cost more than Cr modules) - BCs deliver near BS performance at a fraction of the SP - BCs are much more mobile than BS's - which enormously helps both offense and defense - BCs lock much faster than BS's. - Cap/Supercap proliferation make it stupid to field a BS fleet. - Cap/Supercap proliferation make it generally redundant to field a BS because they do more damage and have much larger tanks. They're also significantly more mobile than a BS.
Basically it boils down to mobility. Battleships don't have it, and they don't bring much more to the table than the things that do have it.
-Liang
Yes the BS is in general to slow/lacks agility to be a real predator to the BC class(with 1-2 exceptions).
Biggest issue for me on the other hand is the very poor ability to project dps against sub BS sized targets, where the BC performs a lot better. Especially at close range the difference is extreme, even vs BCs.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zantris The weeding out of the BS in small gangs is for the better. It promotes a much better ship diversity. If you want to track smaller ships, fit smaller weapons.
Battleships should be a major part of fleet Ops, and the effectiveness and overabundance of capitals are the major reason they are having problems. I certainly don't think buffing armor tanking in fleets is a responsible decision, considering its only one ship that actually warrants shield tanking fleets... otherwise armor tanking is far preferred.
You got Tech 2 and Tech 3 small ships puting out the same or close to the same DPS as a BS with out all the draw backs. The only advantage most BS's realy have are Hit points and mybe more slots. But when your geting hammered on with omost BS dps and you cant even hit your target wtf is the point. BS's are just a lieablity on the Battlefield anymore. And Tech 2 BS's got screwed. Smaller higher level Tech ships got what they were missing most more DPS and slots. What did higher level BS's get? Ya just think about that will ya.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: klyeme Moms should need to buy missiles and load them into their fighter bombers (each bomber can hold about an hour of constant fire of missiles).
There was originally a suggestion that they would have to return to rearm. But I would like to see Motherships carrying Citadel Torps. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2010.12.07 09:56:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Terrance O''Conner on 07/12/2010 10:00:39 Just an out of game parrallel...
It's funny how the BSs dissapeared in RL after the introduction of the carrier.
Now all we see is small fast specialized ships, medium fast agile fire-support and carriers.
Maybe this whole thing could (should) have been foreseen. Introduce something that has better firepower, vastly larger span of control (jump-drive) and think that the ship that has only one thing going for it (Tank and Damage) isn't screwed.
On a personal note, i'd like to see more BSs fielded, and tbh, i think the main issue is the mobility and CAP-ships ability to cream them to hell.
Also: BSs were never intended to do small gang/solo work, thats where HAC/T3/AF comes out to play.
Flame away
Edit: Same issue with the Dread after SC introductuion (dread is just super-screwed as it's only usable in siege (no mobility at ALL) = dead the instant a cyno lights) |
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Ann Ripley
Caldari FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Czar Marcus ECM - It sucks in small gangs/solo, but that's never going to change. Being jammed has always and will always suck. Solution : - Fit Countermeasures and cross your fingers or use ECM drones and hope you jam them.
Tracking issues - Vs what? Other battleships? Nope. Battlecruisers? Nope. Cruisers? Not really, but these ships weren't designed for that anyways. Frigates? Sure, but battleships weren't designed for that and you do have a drone bay for a reason.....Cruise missile DPS is fine. It's designed for long range damage. Torps are designed for short range. It's the same as the difference between heavy and assaults. Assaults do high dps, but are short range. You can hit with cruise and torps. If you're fighting stuff that's flying faster than you're missiles then sick your drones on them or suck it up. Nobody ever said eve was fair or that there was one ship to rule them all.
What? Both shield tanking and armor tanking are fine for fleets. Both are effective. AB Armor HAC fleets are incredibly effective too.
Probing? What? Really?
At this point I'm going to stop replying to your points and just let you know what the rest of the community is thinking.
This is one/all of 4 problems:
A) Your FC's suck and can't manage their fleets B) You suck and don't understand that EVE isn't WoW and not everything is going to be balanced all the time for your particular needs C) If you all have Moms and Titans then why are you complaining? They are immune to ECM anyways. Go fighter bomb/DD stuff. D) All of the above
Honestly, I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say it's D. If you really have SOOOOO many titans, moms, carriers, star destroyers, and everything else in the world then you wouldn't be as upset as you are.
My old corps flew battleship fleets all of the time and were incredibly successful. Sometimes you win and sometimes you explode.
Welcome to Eve.
You sir obviously have no clue who you are talking to....
I agree with the lock time. The lock time on a BS is laughable. Im tired of waisting a medslot just to fit a sensorbooster II that is a standard in most fits. Specialy when fielding a shield tank.
Im ok with the tracking since to me it makes sense that big guns track slower and have huge difficulties hitting frigs.
Also getting probed in 2 secs is imho way to fast. But im not gona shout NERF...
One way around this would be to boost faction BS¦s. Give time way faster lock speed and perhaps some added tracking making them a more viable solo option although expensive. They are much more fun to fly anyway due to the added risk = more kick. "Insert witty comment here" |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: DHB WildCat stuff
While I have great respect for your antics, I gotta say some of these problems/solutions really seem out there.
Tracking/Sig Radius *is* the weakness for BSs. It's got to have an area for small ships to be able to exploit to maintain game balance. You got drones and neuts as anti-small ship, or hopefully pop them before they get to close. Once they get under your guns you are toast. Changing that just seems a bit overpowered.
Locktime, yeah it doesn't make sense, but it's there for game balance. Small ships need to lock faster to maintain their role as tacklers. If BSs could lock faster, then they'd just be giant overpowered tacklers. Not good.
Shield RR vs Armor RR. Might be something to look at after they fix the whole issue of fitting Remote Shield Transfers to PvP BSs like you can with remote armor. Sure on logistics ships it's the remote shield that rules, but the damn things need to be useful somewhere. Balance remote repair across the board.
Probing and Cap ships sounds pretty dead on though.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:23:00 -
[43]
What i would like to see are weapon-clusters, single large weapon slot with multiple small guns as a sort of point-defense weapon, extremly high tracking but low to medium damage. (And while at it make it capable of taking missiles out too. )
Ah well one can dream. ------------------------------------------------------- Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:39:00 -
[44]
TBH it was your persistant ship toasting in lurid colours that caused the demise of the BS
- THC Rabidcat ---
☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:44:00 -
[45]
BS aren't totally awful. Nanopest is great solo/small gang and you see a BS fleet fielded on occasion, especially Amarr.
But they're pretty bad. I
Mobility - The BS fleet isn't going to be able to MWD very far or warp very fast. They tend to go much less than a klick armor tanked. They cap themselves out fast using the MWD which means any plan of extended mobility needs to involve heavy use of a cap booster and proably a faction MWD. (By comparison a BC can run its MWD nonstop for several minutes.) With their agility the time to get inot warp is much higher than anything smaller. (2x maybe?)
As a direct result of their mobility roaming sucks. Smaller ships can roam faster than them by the difference in warp times. Larger ships can technically 'move' as fast as a small ship with a cyno.
Running away is hard. Getting out of a bubble takes a long time. Warping before getting pointed is pretty much impossible.
Tracking issues mean that in a variety of cases battlecruisers with less EFT DPS will put more damage on target.
Lack of mobility (total lack when bubbled) means that the enemy will be able to choose engagement range. This further hampers your DPS on target. If you fit short range for impressive DPS numbers you may have the enemy fleet engage you from beyond short range. If you fit long range you may have an enemy fleet come in close, outdamaging you in smalller ships and being very difficult to track with long range guns.
^This results in an FC rock-paper-scissors problem of trying to predict what the enemy fleet be fit for. Battlecruisers on the other hand don't have this problem as much. And because Battlecruisers can run away more easily, a short range BC gang that encounters a sniper HAC fleet can decide not to engage or to disengage.
^This also results in the popularity of Amarr battleships whose short range weapons can hit out to 50km or so eliviating a good chunk of the problem.
Battlecruisers are cheaper and require less skillpoints.
Looking at it, the most frustrating aspect of battleship gangs is the combination of mobility and difficulty of getting damage on target. If the mobility wasn't so bad it would be easier to project real damage. If hitting the target wasn't so hard then mobility wouldn't be so much of an issue.
Buff battleships to much though and it would swing the other way as a problem. And it seems even a little buff could be too much.
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Laganda
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Posted - 2010.12.07 12:20:00 -
[46]
While i agree that battleships are slow and can be countered easily if found alone. I disagree that you can't solo in one anymore personally i've taken my mega vs a couple of battlecruisers an i've come up on top (falcon nonwistanding) and even if they field a ecm i fit a eccm just in case.
So no on average you don't want to bring a bs solo but its not instant death it can still work but very situational.
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ArmyOfMe
Pastry Productions Inc. Aesir Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.07 12:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Czar Marcus
A) Your FC's suck and can't manage their fleets B) You suck and don't understand that EVE isn't WoW and not everything is going to be balanced all the time for your particular needs C) If you all have Moms and Titans then why are you complaining? They are immune to ECM anyways. Go fighter bomb/DD stuff. D) All of the above
Welcome to Eve.
wait, you come here on the forums with your uber killboard stats of an amazing 200 kills and manage to flame DHB??? lol, go back to wow or whatever hole u came out of.
Oh, and DHB i do agree that something needs to be done about battleships as there really isnt much point trying to fly one solo anymore.
Lock time would be one of the things that needs changing first, as well as a small boost to tracking.
And personally i wouldnt mind if faction webs were given 75% strength
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.07 12:48:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 07/12/2010 12:54:21 Edited by: Furb Killer on 07/12/2010 12:53:01 TL;DR, no.
(Some quotes were shortened due to char limits when writing)
Originally by: DHB WildCat Small Gang / SOLO A webbed / scrammed / painted should be hit by a Battleship.... Not for full damage mind you, but a Battleship should not miss a webbed / scrammed target either.
The problem is only that they just get blobbed because they arent fast and agile enough to escape quickly. But BS tracking atm in general is perfectly fine. They are not supposed to hit cruisers, make them hit cruisers and the main effect is that you quickly start making smaller ships useless in fleet/gangs.
Also you didnt really think this through (or you did and it is intended). As you know some people use unprobable sniper faction BS. Now i havent faced those yet myself, but i assume the counter is using a dram or similar ship to try to get to the BS to point it. Wouldnt it be awesome if your guns could obliterate those pesky frigs? Oh wait, you guys are main users of them.
Quote: Eliminate res based locking and make a baseline lock of a few seconds reguardless the ship... or just boost battleship locking time. Lets face it, if you roleplay you know the battleship has the most syphistacated* (spelling 8)) electronic sysytems around! They would be able to do just as well if not better than any other ship in the fleet.
Bad idea on many levels: First see previous point, is it just to make it easier to kill the counter to your snipers? Second: Again, you make smaller ships completely useless for fleets/gangs. Third: You make low sec even more empty when a single BS can tackle everything coming through.
Quote: Problem - Shield tanking > Armor tanking. However most ships period armor tank. Thus making a shield tanked "drake" fleet with scimis more efeective than armor fleets. Solution - Make armor RR rep at the beginning of the cycle like shield ones. No reason they have to be different.
Diversity maybe? And euhm, there are alot more differences than when they rep. Armor reps are more energy efficient, armor has higher base resistances, and armor RR can actually be fitted on non-logis, contrary to shield reps with their huge CPU need.
Quote: At the same time lets nerf the logi ships a little bit. Two logis should not be able to tank a ship from 10 people.
Logistics are fine, they make fights more fun for all sides: longer fights = more fun, primaried is not insta dead. Also use some ewar against logis, or just focus fire good and they drop like flies
Quote: We all have Mom's and some of us even have titans.
There are some rumours how you got them yes.
Although yeah the supercap ammounts are ridiculous, with them being dropped on solo interceptors. Severely nerfing super carriers drone bays so they can either take fighters or fighter bombers would help a bit, but still then they are way overpowered with having no direct counter.
TL;DR2, the effect of your ideas would be RR BS blobs. You boost them on so many levels: With better tracking combined with that you got plenty of webs in a gang they will obliterate ahac gangs (and with good fittings they allready can do that). Your enormous boosts to locking speed combined with a 4.5-5 seconds faster application of reps means there is no way to kill a target before he gets repped back up. And then you think logis are bad now. Yeah stealthbombers remain a problem in 0.0 against RR BS that need to be close together, but since with sebos you pretty much instalock them now they probably just get toasted. Tacklers? Who needs tacklers, your BS tackle everything fine, support fleets are for wussies. Ah you cant fly a t2 BS? Well too bad, you cant do anything. BCs? Why would you possibly fly a BC?
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The Tzar
Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:00:00 -
[49]
As cool as solo BS work is I don't think any change should do away with the need for a balanced fleet dominating an unbalanced one i.e. lets not change the need for tacklers (for many reasons other than this thread)
A quick idea on this topic, I'm sure I've read it before also, allow BS sized weapons to be scripted for tracking as many BS cannot afford the use of TC's due to minimal midslots.
A permanant boost to tracking would make them overpowered but the pilot/user having to choose an instantly changeable variable would allow more versatility.
I agree that BS should not suffer with slower targetting than other ships tbh. Specialised tacklers should dominate all in terms of lock speed but apart from this it should be fairly even sub-capital.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Greymoon Avatar
Originally by: Dabljuh Here's a suggestion: There should be battleship-sized weapons modules designed to kill cruisers and frigates efficiently. Like the Assault Launcher, a cruiser sized module that is designed to kill anti-frigate missiles.
Precision Cruises don't cut it, there's no BS turrets to that end, and drones are highly situational / unreliable.
How about a Target Painter?
how about giving all the BS an extra slot for that
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: DHB WildCat Ephemeron is somewhat right about the nano nerf. It did eliminate funny set-ups for battleships that were fun to fly and unique.
Also Ephy.... remember I didnt why about the nano nerf. I was its biggest exploiter! My nano CNR would have ****d your nano mach 8) lol!
Doubt it, as my nano Machs were built to sustain tank at least 700 dps and there was room for 1 heavy neut. Unless you tricked our your CNR specifically for dealing with nano machs, it'd be dead for sure
... but it's ok, nano machs weren't overpowered back then.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.07 14:26:00 -
[52]
Thing is, BS shouldn't be able to smite smaller ships. I'm happy with the general principles of game balance, that means smaller ships are properly competitive in today's battlefield. BS are lagging behind, despite being the biggest tanks, and heaviest firepower, and I like that. I wouldn't like to see things skewed particularly much, in the other direction. Too many days of 'BS is king'.
Even the BS ship class though, is quite nicely rounded. I haven't run into many complaints of a particular BS being awful, in the same way as I have cruisers, BCs, HACs, etc.
OK, maybe the hyperion, but even that isn't terrible, it's just not as great as some of the alternatives (and blasters are a factor there, too)
Sure, I use some BS more than others, but they all seem to have their niche. So... well, what of it? Should there be a bit of a tweak to battleships, to be more ... battleship-y? Maybe a couple more slots? Or a bit more fitting space? Or a blanket nudge upwards of their tracking, or raw damage?
I don't think it'd take much though - BS _are_ pretty good.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 14:35:00 -
[53]
Well BS have a hard time swatting smaller ships, but it's quite easy for moms to swat the smaller BS :p
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.07 14:47:00 -
[54]
I wouldnt really use SCs as shining example of ship balancing.
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Derekian
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.07 14:50:00 -
[55]
um. I dont see how Battlecruisers like drake are any less susceptible to capitals. Fighters **** Drakes, just like how they **** Battleships.
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Gligan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 14:56:00 -
[56]
I know 1 BS that absolutely owns every single type of BC, cruiser, t3, recon, command , or even frigate(if it isn't smart enough to get away). Yes - that's right - it's a domi with neuts.
Webs and points you, then shuts down your mwd/ ab , tank? whatever you're using with cap, releases the drones, MWD's in your direction while laughing at your dps.
Alternatively use MWD'd machariel.
But seriously - there's only 1 single change that CCP devs have to do to put BS's back in the game - do not limit the BS bonuses to BS weapons only. I.e. instead of the bonus being to large projectiles for the typhoon - make it a bonus to projectiles, and instead of bonus to torpedoes and cruise missiles , give a bonus to missiles for the raven ... and so on.
So a maelstrom with 425's AC's and a web would be a tough mofo that can hit almost any class out there.
And a raven with HAM's , while it may sound stupid would most likely destroy smaller ships just because it has more endurance.(ok I'm not missile guy and don't know wth different missiles sizes can hit but still)
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Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.12.07 15:04:00 -
[57]
Originally by: DHB WildCat
It has been a sad fact these last few months that a Battleship is practicly laughed at these days. Why? What has happened to them? Well there are several reasons for this both in small gangs / solo, and in large fleets.
Small Gang / SOLO
As a guy who once solo'ed entirely in Battleships, I can safely say that it is now virtually impossible to do so.
Problem - Tracking Issues... Lets face it. A battleship has a VERY hard time tracking ships that are even webbed and scrammed! You litterally cannot hit them. Not to mention the torp range on caldari is too short but does minimal damage since it is sig radius based. And yes cruise missile dps sux! Solution - Boost tracking and missile stats to better have a chance to hit a tackled target. Yes they shouldnt be able to hit a non tackled target, but a webbed / scrammed / painted should be hit by a Battleship.... Not for full damage mind you, but a Battleship should not miss a webbed / scrammed target either.
Thank the web nerf for that. I would like battleships to have a small buff across everything that counts: Align time, speed, tracking, damage, and hit points.
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Problem - Locking time. Takes for ever to lock a ship unless you specifically use spots needed for other modules to lock faster.
Solution - Eliminate res based locking and make a baseline lock of a few seconds reguardless the ship... or just boost battleship locking time. Lets face it, if you roleplay you know the battleship has the most syphistacated* (spelling 8)) electronic sysytems around! They would be able to do just as well if not better than any other ship in the fleet.
I'm indifferent to this. Yes, I hate the long ass locktimes, but at the same time boosting them risks putting EVE back to battleship only. Someone should HAVE to fly tackle. That's the way the game was meant to be played.
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Fleets
Problem - Shield tanking > Armor tanking. However most ships period armor tank. Thus making a shield tanked "drake" fleet with scimis more efeective than armor fleets. Solution - Make armor RR rep at the beginning of the cycle like shield ones. No reason they have to be different. At the same time lets nerf the logi ships a little bit. Two logis should not be able to tank a ship from 10 people.
You're wrong here. Boosting armor tanking will only make shield tanking useless. As it stands, EVE is extremely armor heavy. Instead of nerfing the shield tank, which is essentially the Drake, make other ships shield tank viable, thus you'll see more than just Drakes flying around. Armor and shield are meant to be different. And never touch logis.
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Problem - Capital ships.... seriously this is completely out of control! I am in a corp of 20 people. We all have Mom's and some of us even have titans. It is too easy to build these things and they are too cheap for their abilities. Solution - Make them more expensive! Fighters / Fighter bombers should not be able to hit sub caps period! A mom should not be a solo pwn mobile like it is! DD - Make sig based... again too many titans are dropped on lone Battleship becasue it insta pops them and is so cheap to fire the device that it isnt even a factor concidered in firing the divice.
Hell no. Never EVER mistake cost with balance. You're complaining because YOU have super carriers? Imagine this. They're now too expensive for your little 20 man corp to build so you have none, yet that super 600 man alliance can easily build 600 of them. Why? Because major alliances will never stumble over costs. They can make ISK on a scale you can't comprehend. So now you have no super carriers and they have hundreds. Are you satisfied now? Instead of balancing super caps you've only restricted them to major alliances only. I don't think I need to elaborate on the gaping flaw your solution presents.
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Tryaz
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.07 15:06:00 -
[58]
I'm sorry but this entire thread is ridiculous and if CCP give any of these suggestions serious consideration I'll be disappointed in them.
Among the most ridiculous whines and sugggestions:
Battleships to track frigates without support - have you lost your mind? Of course a ship that size should not be able to track a frigate! Everything has to have a place and if a frigate can't navigate safely around a BS then what's the point in them.... Also, what's to stop you supporting your BS with a ship operating tracking links?
Battleships to fit CovOps Cloaks. The clue is in the name genius: there is absolutely NOTHING covert about a hulking great battleship! So you can't warp cloaked, deal with it.
I could go on for a long time but I'd just get boring. To sum up I have nothing but contempt for the original post on this thread. Why do you expect to be able to operate a BS or many BS' without any support at all? How arrogant are you?
Stop crying over the weaknesses in the BS and augment your fleet to plug those holes: and if you can't do this then you don't deserve to win any fights.
WISE UP
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.12.07 15:11:00 -
[59]
Honestly, this topic only assumes a PvP function for battleships. What it misses is the fact that many, many people use battleships for mission running. Sure a Tengu may be faster or slightly better, but the majority of us, when running missions, use some form of battleship. So would all your suggestions cause an inbalance and make the battleships tear through missions even faster? I'm not so sure that would be a good idea. So how do you balance this so battleships don't become godly at missioning?
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Gligan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 15:14:00 -
[60]
most BS have more dps than the tengu already, I wouldn't say it's better or faster.
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