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Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.18 05:48:00 - [1] We can now start hammering the new neocom as seen in the dev blog by CCP Optimal. For activating it: 1) hit [ESC] 2) 'general settings' tab 3) left pane under 'experimental features', click [enable] button 4) client will restart I like: - adjustable height of neocom - direct access to training queue via 'currently trained skill feature' - current location/autopilot waypoints seem to be sitting on separate canvases/containers/windows already.. I guess they'll be moveable soon (woooot) - submenus only extend when clicked and stay open (can we get this for context/map submenus too?) I've got problems/don't like: - character sheet icon doesn't close character sheet when clicked again - character sheet also opens when clicking on portrait (me: not a fan of redundancy) - character portrait in neocom (don't want it there) - neocom is BELOW other windows - blinking icons are annoying (highlight with 1px wide frame would suit me) - station panel doesn't have an icon from the get go as the chat channel windows or any other window (imho get rid of the station window please) - chat channel icons behave differently too.. irritating - playing around I managed to break the autohide function (created some new menus, dropped other windows in them, deleted menus, moved menus into each other..) - vertical position of HUD is bound to neocom height - might as well put the 'chat' icon to where the 'ship/itemhangar' and 'undock' icons sit, as those aren't removable either I wish for: - local time - hover for skill-feature, 'ETA' optional in 'DD HH:MM:SS' instead of just 'HH:MM:SS' - custom icons for custom menus - custom icons for all icons - chat channels without opt out option are fast to get up again, others like 'help' or 'blueprints' for example have to brought back via 'open channel' window.. please give option to close them, but keep them in the chat submenu support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.18 10:18:00 - [2] Did I mention that the neocom needs the option to be vertical? Must have slipped me somehow.. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Divercity Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.18 13:03:00 - [3] Two small bugs I noticed, 1. When you open the 'Bookmark' tab, then change to another menu the 'Bookmark' tab stays open. 2. You can't bring a brower page back up once you minimize it.
Skuggis Systembolaget	Posted - 2010.12.18 13:32:00 - [4] Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/12/2010 06:01:25 We can now start hammering the new neocom as seen in the dev blog by CCP Optimal. For activating it: hit [ESC] 'general settings' tab left pane under 'experimental features', click [enable] button client will restart I like: adjustable height of neocom direct access to training queue via 'currently trained skill feature' current location/autopilot waypoints seem to be sitting on separate canvases/containers/windows already.. I guess they'll be moveable soon (woooot) submenus only extend when clicked and stay open (can we get this for context/map submenus too?) I've got problems/don't like: character sheet icon doesn't close character sheet when clicked again character sheet also opens when clicking on portrait (me: not a fan of redundancy) character portrait in neocom (don't want it there) neocom is BELOW other windows blinking icons are annoying (highlight with 1px wide frame would suit me) station panel doesn't have an icon from the get go as the chat channel windows or any other window (imho get rid of the station window please) chat channel icons behave differently too.. irritating playing around I managed to break the autohide function (created some new menus, dropped other windows in them, deleted menus, moved menus into each other..) vertical position of HUD is bound to neocom height might as well put the 'chat' icon to where the 'ship/itemhangar' and 'undock' icons sit, as those aren't removable either I wish for: - local time hover for skill-feature, 'ETA' optional in 'DD HH:MM:SS' instead of just 'HH:MM:SS' custom icons for custom menus custom icons for all icons chat channels without opt out option are fast to get up again, others like 'help' or 'blueprints' for example have to brought back via 'open channel' window.. please give option to close them, but keep them in the chat submenu I pretty much agree with everything Tres Farmer writes, there's one small addition I'd like however that would ease my gameplay tons. This being a little box that works like the map browser search feature works so you could just type in Nakri or whatever and get a small popup, right click and set destination. Instead of having to pull up the map browser (Takes a while with my computer), search, set destination and close it again.
Miriam Letisse	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Skuggis This being a little box that works like the map browser search feature works so you could just type in Nakri or whatever and get a small popup, right click and set destination. Instead of having to pull up the map browser (Takes a while with my computer), search, set destination and close it again. Indeed! Perhaps other things too, like a box that when given the name of an item automatically brings up a show info window or avarage price information. You could call them apps..
CHEERWlNE	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:28:00 - [6] Edited by: CHEERWlNE on 18/12/2010 14:30:30 It's nice but there absolutely has to be an option to make it vertical again as Widescreen users have less screen real estate. Also I like how you can resize it, I immediately made it thin. EDIT: Also I think some of the icons should be remade, they look a bit old and musty now - especially at the default size of the new neocom.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Gnulpie on 18/12/2010 14:35:38 I've got problems: CTRL-F9 (hide UI) doesn't hide the neocom, it only hide the other UI elements. Currently I wouldnt want to use the new neocom in game. I would need more mouseclicks and a lot more mouse-movements to access the stuff I want to access.
Rosalina Sarinna Royal Guardsmen	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:45:00 - [8] I like the new NeoCom Everyone understands how to use it as its quite OS-like. Some things noticed: You can't remove the chat button, and its hellishly annoying blinking every 1 second at you when you don't want it (Note: Its the button I have no interest in, all my chat windows ar eopen and we already see blinking tabs in channels). I can count a number of yet-unnamed "ui_calls" as menu options, category options. You can't put station icons on the taskbar. I'd prefer to have these than the huge station slab on the right side of the screen when in station (Maybe the agents/guest lists/corp offices can be reached from elsewhere in the NeoCom main menu?).
Amelie Cassi	Posted - 2010.12.18 15:24:00 - [9] I hate. The "windows like bar" is awful. The actual interface is simple and effective, there's no need to change for something more complicated with useless options. I don't think that accessing the Incursions panel or something else in one click instead of two will change anything. If you want to work on accessibility, you better translate the help in the most played languages. I also hate the black transparent box behind the system informations, the route, and the planetary interaction menus. So please, allow us to choose between the two interfaces, even in one or five years. I could stop playing to Eve Online because of this new interface.
Desmont McCallock	Posted - 2010.12.18 15:48:00 - [10] Looks like CCP is really sympathetic towards MS (therefore the new NeoCom design). If CCP sticks to that design, I would definitely want to be able to move it around (dockable on all monitor sides). And here is my bug report. If you spam the "training queue" button before the related window appears, you get as many windows as you clicked. I suspect that the logic checks if the window is open instead of checking if the button was pressed.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.18 15:58:00 - [11] I haven't had (nor will I have at any point in the next couple of weeks) time to get this new build up and running, but I'm wondering about something that often goes wrong with these kind of UIs: Have they managed to keep the "mile high button" functionality? I.e. is there a gap anywhere between the neocom buttons and the edge of the screen? Since they're copying Windows, I'm afraid that they'll also accidentally copy MS' inability to understand this very simple UI concept: that things (buttons, fields, whathaveyou) that sit at the edge of the screen shouldà wellà sit at the edge of the screen, and that even that very last pixel at the edge should let you activate said buttons and fields. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Greshick Gallente Armored Elite Concordokken.	Posted - 2010.12.18 16:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna Some things noticed: You can't remove the chat button, and its hellishly annoying blinking every 1 second at you when you don't want it (Note: Its the button I have no interest in, all my chat windows ar eopen and we already see blinking tabs in channels). Yeah we should also be able to delete that button, or at least stop the blinking. Otherwise I like it.
Katarina reid	Posted - 2010.12.18 17:14:00 - [13] is good just let me turn off blinking icons it way to distracting
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.18 17:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Tippia snip Have they managed to keep the "mile high button" functionality? I.e. is there a gap anywhere between the neocom buttons and the edge of the screen? snip I was looking at it very closely and the button(s) react until the arrow turns into the ms-window-seizer (for vertically resizing the window). So, yeah.. they didn't copy windows there. Though, looking at my Win7 Taskbar I can't see that fault. The cursor is right at the last pixel of the screen and hovering buttons still highlights them (or gets them activated when clicked). Looks like Win7 managed to get rid of that. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Hiram Alexander Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.18 18:10:00 - [15] This was my first time using the new UI, and on first impressions.. 1. I like it, overall. 2. I like the small portrait next to the name, but I couldn't find a way to 'Capture Portrait' - anywhere... 3. I like that it used my alt's first initial - as the full name wouldn't have fitted. (I don't think) 4. I like the Auto-hide, but I found that if you've locked the height of the UI, once it hides it won't come back - you need to unlock its height again. I'll probably have better feedback once I've used it more. --HA
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.12.18 18:22:00 - [16] I love the bottom of screen location for the neocom. Side of the screen had always bothered me creating a busy and distracting frame element that unbalanced the display of in-space ui. Hiding it was not really a good option since it always messed with the windows positions when moving in or out. Some comments on the new implementation: - The bar itself needs to somehow better match the rest of the ui 3-D geometry. It looks good, but stands out by being a little too round, I think. - The current function icons graphically do not work very well with the new bar or each other (with a few exceptions). The icons need to conform to some style, maybe something like the 'interface' elements from most of the recent CCP videos. Maybe the styles could be different for all races, but they do need to look much more hi-tech as opposed to something like the People and Places or chat icons that look like something out of a Monopoly game. - I'd like to be able to name groups, and have that name show up on mouse-over. - The skill training status display is too 'large' and doesn't conform to other status bars used in other places. Skill training time should be DD HH:MM:SS, as has been mentioned already. It's great that graphical ui is finally being looked at. I'm hoping in-space ship ui is also being worked on, especially the 'heat' interface. I'm also hoping that we will soon see something useful made out of the seldom used F11 panel. ...
Glorious CEO	Posted - 2010.12.18 19:12:00 - [17] -When set to "autohide" the weapon controls don't move with it, making hiding the bar pointless. This is noticable mostly when you have made the bar rather wide. -minimized windows leave the corresponding button permalit. (Not with chat) -the background on location and route makes no sense just adds clutter. -getting to corp or fleet now takes three clicks not one (I'am aware you can change that, but still..) -grouping weapons button is nice One more thing. I have never heard anyone complaining about the old neocom much. I do, however, hear complaints about, including, but not limited to: - inflight bookmarking - drone controls - the >>>O V E R V I E W<<< and setting it up. - O V E R H E A TINggggg (FFFFFUUUU) So, that said, if you feel like fixing stuff, maybe, just maybe start with **** that actually is broken or cumbersome to use.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.18 19:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Tres Farmer I was looking at it very closely and the button(s) react until the arrow turns into the ms-window-seizer (for vertically resizing the window). So, yeah.. they didn't copy windows there. Though, looking at my Win7 Taskbar I can't see that fault. The cursor is right at the last pixel of the screen and hovering buttons still highlights them (or gets them activated when clicked). Looks like Win7 managed to get rid of that. Excellent to hear And yes, I think they've (Microsoft that is) started to get the hang of it to some extent, but they used to completely miss the point ù some versions of the start button in the lower left corner that didn't let you click the button if you put the mouse pointer in the lower-left corner being the most facepalming move of them allà I think they've fixed it with some of the task bar content, but you still see it with the window drop-down menus for instance. àanywayà</UI pet peeve rant> ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Illuria Malprosit Risen Angels	Posted - 2010.12.18 20:56:00 - [19] Edited by: Illuria Malprosit on 18/12/2010 20:59:00 This is something that bugs me with the new windows: I roleplay, and run a corp. And because of this, I have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30 active channels open. I'm normally pretty good at staying on top of things with them. I have them stacked according to focus, and I minimize the ones that aren't in use. However, this new UI means I can't do that. Since it piles all my stacks of windows together as one. So I can't see what's blinking...not that it matters since minimized chat windows don't blink when someone posts in the new UI, and I can't see where one stack starts, and another ends. Suggestions to fix this: give the ability to sort how stacks are created. So I can minimize a block of windows, and have them show as a separate item instead of as one. And since there's no visible text associated with the icon anymore, let us colourcode the icons. If this neocom becomes mandatory without this...I don't know what I'll do, I can't not have those windows open.
Jay Wareth	Posted - 2010.12.18 21:49:00 - [20] N E E D S M O R E V E R T I C A L . It would also be nice if we could lock the task bar, uh, I mean neocom. Is anyone else having problems with the chat button swallowing chat windows and not giving them back?

Spytor	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Spytor on 18/12/2010 22:42:18 It's better, but not that good. Need to be able to move the NEOcom to any position on the screen. 1.) Allow us to reshape the box the buttons are in. You want it run across or up one side,okay. How about being able to reshape the box into a 3 X 3 grind or a 4 X 3. that you can stick in a corner of your screen. 2.) Even better allow use to do away with the NEOcom box and place the buttons wherever we would like on the screen. Right click, unlock button, drag to desired position, right click, lock button, done. 3.) In the spirit of #2. Allow use to move everything in the UI to anywhere we want it. Why are we locked into these ridged forms on the UI?
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.12.18 23:46:00 - [22] Ok my thoughts To Mac and window's 7. Mean kinda looks like you ripped them off that way. Next, maybe put some themes for it, or selectable skins, I for one would like hologram type stuff like in the videos. Finally Needs More Vertical ! ! ! I like vertical tool bars, neocomms, taskbars. Thats how i have my desk tops set up and I like it in games.
Aeo IV Amarr Oneironautics Research Institute	Posted - 2010.12.19 03:29:00 - [23] Has anyone ever actually complained about the neocom? I always thought it was a very decent design.
Lirael Dyrim Gallente In Bacon We Trust	Posted - 2010.12.19 04:13:00 - [24] Having the undock button on the other side is rather confusing. After activating the new neocom I couldn't find the contracts button (Is there one or am I just stupid?) so had to go through my character info to find it.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.19 04:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Aeo IV Has anyone ever actually complained about the neocom? I always thought it was a very decent design. Nope, but I assume CCP builds a new corified interface for it to work with the stuff that WoD uses (they'll need a neocom too I guess). So, welcome to the lab-rats-club. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2010.12.19 11:46:00 - [26] 3 bugs found: 1) Clicking fast on the training queue in the bar opens multiple skill queue windows. See 2010.12.19.11.19.00.jpg attached 2) Browser's BM from menu remains open until menu is closed. See 2010.12.19.11.18.43.jpg attached 3) Clicking the chats icon in the bar when it's flashing cause the icon to get sticky and move trough the bar until clicked again. Steps for each bug: 1) Just click fast on the skill queue in the bar. 2) Open menu, click Accessories, click Bookmarks. Bookmarks menu opens. Click other expandable menu (Business or social). The Bookmarks remains open until the menu is closed. 3) Wait for chat icon to blink. Click it. It get sticky to the mouse and moves trough the other icons like rearrange. Bugs reported #104631
Georgiy Giggle	Posted - 2010.12.19 12:43:00 - [27] In total, i realy like the idea about new neocom. But there is one thing i REALY HATE - training skill view. OMG! What is that? Just simple gray rectangle on background. Please! PLEASE add some gradient, and border, and\or something else. Do not leave as it on this screenshot: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/neocom02.jpg If can make something better, please spend some hours to change it. Cuz, it's realy muddy. Thanks.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.20 11:19:00 - [28] bump support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Aylara	Posted - 2010.12.20 11:25:00 - [29] Edited by: Aylara on 20/12/2010 11:27:03 I love the new neocom. Bugs: - autohide option; when selected it hides the neocom for good (if you locked height), can't make it to show up again unless i reset the client - minimizing windows with autohide on, makes those windows go for good too - icon blinking: some of the icons keep blinking, even if you opened and closed the respective section; after a while it gets really distracting
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.12.20 13:22:00 - [30] First issue: Fixed Window mode appears to be trying to take into account the Windows Task bar. It makes an assumption as to its height and Eve seems to size its window accordingly. However the height isn't correct and the NeoCom becomes partly covered at a one title-bar task bar height, and fully covered at two. IMO, Eve does not need to worry about the windows task bar. Most people know how to alt + tab, hit the windows key or use ctrl + escape, or various others windows play things. Chat Icon: I understand it is there as an active window, and therefore seems entitled to its own little neurotic stop-fcking-blinking NeoCom item, but may I please remove it? It is redundant to the nature of chat windows. If I minimize one. ok, then auto poof a task bar item, but open and active chats don't need it. Locking height makes sense, how about a also simple lock? Often I find I am dragging NeoCom buttons around when I don't mean too. They seem overly sensitive to the lazy click. Training Queue area takes up a lot of real estate, does it really need to be this big? The "Start Button E" could stand to be a bit larger. It would be nice if we could name our generic groups, and maybe give them whatever color we wanted too. Being able to assign a hot key to generic groups would be kinda snazzy too. Also what would be snazzy is, since the client already has and knows where all the corp emblem doodads are, let us use those to further customize our groups. Just make it a client side thing. IMO, it is a mistake to clutter up the Taskbar with launchable icons by default. Instead players could be made aware they can do it if they wish, or make groups if they wish. But nice and clean looks ... nice and clean, and it keeps it looking nice and clean when you start to have a bunch of open things, and some are minimized. Minimized and an launchable icon, minimized and no launchable icon, no launchable icon and open ... that's three states for two display signals ... know what I mean? Perhaps alter the highlight of an active item that is open to a high lighted border, minimized to half lit, and launchable an not active (not open or minimized) to no highlight at all. Personally, I'd prefer if I could make my groups and all my short cuts on the "start menu" and not the task bar. NT4 habits die hard. OR, let me slide my groups way over next to the "start E". Might I suggest you guys come up with common vernacular names for these elements so that we may refer to them in Eve-Speak instead of Windows-Speak? For example, Start Button -> Eve Button, Task Bar -> NeoBar, Start Menu -> Eve Menu, etc and point out these elements with pics and arrows in the next dev-blog on this subject. Don't let us cynical pod pilots name them, seize the marketing opportunity while we let you, as it were. The Real Space Initiative - V7



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