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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 17:59:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Adunh Slavy
It would be nice if we could name our generic groups, and maybe give them whatever color we wanted too. Being able to assign a hot key to generic groups would be kinda snazzy too. Also what would be snazzy is, since the client already has and knows where all the corp emblem doodads are, let us use those to further customize our groups. Just make it a client side thing.
This is a pretty cool idea. In fact it would be useful to have a new set of 'doodads' to customize all the neocon icons.
It would be nice to stickie this thread and have some dev acknowledge its existence. Thx.
...
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:09:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
Also, while you're at it CCP, why don't you fix the current one? I still can't move my mouse all the way to the left and click on anything. There's 10 pixels of dead space there.
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Amelie Cassi
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
+1
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
It is unintelligent to ask that CCP maintain two sets if complex interface elements that perform the same function.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:15:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 19:18:09
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
It is unintelligent to ask that CCP maintain two sets if complex interface elements that perform the same function.
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
To clarify, because that was rather short, I click my Neocom maybe once every 30 minutes. Maybe to access the wallet or the characters info. Why? Because I have everything I need in the main screen. My ship, my hangar bay, my cargo bay, my ship information, all my ship menus, all the chat windows are IN the screen. Everything works fine.
I don't need something which is going to take up a) more screen real estate and b) clutter me with submenus.
Right now the Neocom works well because you click a button and then it pops a new dialog window up right away. Submenus SUCK. CCP, weren't we trying to minimize the amount of submenus we have to go through to get to something? Mouse having to follow things IS VERY OLD.
Please, keep both options ingame if you want to inflict us with a major UI change. As I said before, Microsoft left the old start menu interface in newer versions because IT WORKED. There's a reason Windows XP is still the most widely used OS in the world in 2010. Because it was SIMPLE.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
CCP blogged about planned features of the new neocom, put it on SISI over one month before release, and will have it as an optional TQ beta feature when it goes live. During all this time CCP will be reviewing player comments and bugreports to be used for possible improvements.
Apparently you are unaware of all of this.
Also, you are not "the player base".
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Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
This would lead to major issues scheduling in game events, however I would live to see a hover over tool-tip that shows a countdown to next downtime and if you like a +/- hours from EvE time to client local time.
So +4hours DT: 13hours
-CJ
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 20:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
CCP blogged about planned features of the new neocom, put it on SISI over one month before release, and will have it as an optional TQ beta feature when it goes live. During all this time CCP will be reviewing player comments and bugreports to be used for possible improvements.
Apparently you are unaware of all of this.
Also, you are not "the player base".
I read it. You need to read better. I also know how CCP thinks. I know that they'll throw us something, a few people will like it, the complainers will go to the forums instead of filing bug reports and we'll be left with something some people don't want. There are so many nitpicky things I don't like CCP has done and still don't like. But I play because I love the game. I just don't have to love the choices the developers always make.
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I read it. You need to read better. I also know how CCP thinks. I know that they'll throw us something, a few people will like it, the complainers will go to the forums instead of filing bug reports and we'll be left with something some people don't want. There are so many nitpicky things I don't like CCP has done and still don't like. But I play because I love the game. I just don't have to love the choices the developers always make.
And here you are complaining on the forums... which makes you part of which group?
Can I have you stuff? 
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jay Wareth
And here you are complaining on the forums... which makes you part of which group?
Can I have you stuff?
The group of people who cares about quality control and not just re-releasing working things because "it was something for the staff to do."
And no, you can't have my stuff. You wouldn't know what to do with all of it.
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Nv Sheng
Interstellar Archaeology
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Posted - 2010.12.20 23:54:00 -
[41]
After logging onto SISSI and playing around with the new NEOCOM for a bit I'm not certain if I like it. It's not too radical a shift from what we already have, which is good. Why they changed the order of the icons is odd, but it wasn't too difficult to find everything. The EVE Channel thing seemed hyper redundant because I can just make buttons for everything (and why they aren't there as a default is another odd thing).
Unfortunately, like so many others, there are other things I would rather see the Devs spend their time fixing. Like the fonts in every dammed window. Too small, unless I set my screen size to be tiny, but then there isn't room for anything on screen. Letting us change the size of the fonts doesn't seem like something that would break the game, but it apparently is because they haven't even thought about giving us that.
My $0.000000000001
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.20 23:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
Also, while you're at it CCP, why don't you fix the current one? I still can't move my mouse all the way to the left and click on anything. There's 10 pixels of dead space there.
I've never once in the last 3 years noticed this, what are you doing wrong?
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.21 04:52:00 -
[43]
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right. 
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Candente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:06:00 -
[44]
not considering to use it until the vertical and auto-hide options are added
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rawr~ |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:50:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:35:00 -
[46]
Well, yeah, I was wondering that too. 
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
Because everybody knows if you build a castle on a mountain made of sand, it will sink. Much like the quality control is doing when they haven't finished or refined one thing before they launch off to work on something else.
I propose they fix the FEW bugs/issues with the current Neocom and make it 100% functional in all ways before they make another one. The house built on a solid foundation will last through weather. The one built on sand will crumble.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 07:07:45
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 06:59:18
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
Because everybody knows if you build a castle on a mountain made of sand, it will sink. Much like the quality control is doing when they haven't finished or refined one thing before they launch off to work on something else.
I propose they fix the FEW bugs/issues with the current Neocom and make it 100% functional in all ways before they make another one. The house built on a solid foundation will last through weather. The one built on sand will crumble.
They simply can't.
Don't you get it?
CCP is corifying EVERYTHING now. Be it context-menus, be it the neocom, be it the server nodes.. everything gets corified.
CCP will never ever again touch the code of the old Neocom to get it 100% working.
They will make a new one, which then can also be used for WoD and what the hell else they got in their minds.
Deal with it.
And yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll get windows with adjustable font sizes too for this.. And know why? Because they CORIFY it. The actual window engine can't handle other fonts as it can't react/adjust to bigger fonts (otherwise we would have it, it's a simple matter of borders not resizable).. or whatever the user sets. The OLD code isn't that flexible.
Without WoD we wouldn't even talking about this.
Please start to adjust your view and see the whole picture. The Devs here aren't working for EVE-Spaceships alone any more. They work for Dust/WoD too. Everything that benefits ALL 3 games will have the biggest chance of being worked on.
And yeah, this means we're guinea-pigs. 
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Jaranis
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:46:00 -
[49]
New necom is an excellent bodge-job for getting OSX windowed client working! I like!
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:50:00 -
[50]
not much too say ;
beta too early, way too much bugs and not enough features to test
from what i saw i'll see that either it was done in 2 hours, or you waste your time here.
also what i want to do on the final product :
allow us to divide the pannel who have more than 1 tab
that's the only interest of the new interface you're creating here. there is nothing to personalize if we can't do that.
i want to be able for example ;
* to have the menu industry who open and be able to click from the menu to either planets, research, BPs...
* be able to put a shortcut to one of these on the menu
all that without having open the RD pannel first and then chosing
same thing for contracts
and, most important for peoples and places : i have tojns of contacts and BMs, it takes ages to load. i want these 2 things to be totally separated.
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.21 19:39:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 21/12/2010 19:46:15
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
Good UI design is good UI design. It doesn't matter if it comes from an OS or a game.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
To clarify, because that was rather short, I click my Neocom maybe once every 30 minutes. Maybe to access the wallet or the characters info. Why? Because I have everything I need in the main screen. My ship, my hangar bay, my cargo bay, my ship information, all my ship menus, all the chat windows are IN the screen. Everything works fine.
I don't click on the NeoCom ever and I keep it auto-hidden, since I have everything mapped to a keyboard shortcut, which is much faster and more efficient. The only thing I ever use it for is to see when my wallet has changed from the blinking, for example.
That said, even I can see that this is a definite improvement over the old 2004 version. Maybe you should actually try it out instead of being reactionary and whining about the very idea of a new interface.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I don't need something which is going to take up a) more screen real estate and b) clutter me with submenus.
Right now the Neocom works well because you click a button and then it pops a new dialog window up right away. Submenus SUCK. CCP, weren't we trying to minimize the amount of submenus we have to go through to get to something? Mouse having to follow things IS VERY OLD.
You sound like you looked at it for about five seconds and didn't actually use it. You don't need to use submenus after you set up the bar. You pin the things you use to the bar and guess what? It work virtually just like it does now. It's more customizable, is all. As far as "taking more screen real estate", it takes up about one pixel of screen real-estate just like it does now if you auto-hide it, and even if you don't, you can shrink it to be very small. It actually takes less space, since shortcuts to open windows and already-open minimized windows share the same icon.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Zora'e
Amarr
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hiram Alexander
This was my first time using the new UI, and on first impressions..
1. I like it, overall.
2. I like the small portrait next to the name, but I couldn't find a way to 'Capture Portrait' - anywhere...
3. I like that it used my alt's first initial - as the full name wouldn't have fitted. (I don't think)
4. I like the Auto-hide, but I found that if you've locked the height of the UI, once it hides it won't come back - you need to unlock its height again.
I'll probably have better feedback once I've used it more.
--HA
An additional issue that I noted with the new neocom is when you drag the task bar down to it's smallest size, lock it and then also use the auto hide feature... the neocom bar will no longer slide back up when you mouse down on the lower part of the screen. However it will still slide back up with the auto hide feature if the task bar is left the original size. It may simply be the locking that does it as you say.. I had that issue, switched back to the normal neocom and haven't looked back.
I personally dislike it at the bottom. It takes more screen space than at the side. As others have said, I would like the option to place it where I want it.
Also as others have said.. the transparent black boxes for system info etc just REALLY need to go. There was/is nothing wrong with the previous manner in which that information was displayed and the only actual addition I see to the display for it is you added a stupid transparency to the information.
LESS is more in this case CCP. I really don't need addition boxes cluttering up my screen, especially when they serve no REAL function at all.
-
Ceiling Cat may be watching you, but Basement Cat is shooting at you! |
Ytamii Arval
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:15:00 -
[53]
Amazing how annoying the Neo becomes when positioned at the bottom of the screen; it's those damned blinking icons! Not to mention that items on the "start" menu aren't even alphabetized. Not to mention the clumsiness of multi-level cascading menus. Not to mention that you have to reduce the height of Station Information to not have overlap.
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.22 03:07:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Amazing how annoying the Neo becomes when positioned at the bottom of the screen; it's those damned blinking icons!
I'm with ya sister. Don't like the blinking either.. a simple highlighted border (no blinking would be enough to signal needed attention). Would prefer this to be disable for certain buttons then too.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention that items on the "start" menu aren't even alphabetized.
I think you'll be able to arrange them how you want it later on.
Put it on a [WANTED] list to make sure CCP Optimal puts it on his list.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention the clumsiness of multi-level cascading menus.
Most needed buttons can be drag+dropped where you want them. Again, make it a [WANTED] list.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention that you have to reduce the height of Station Information to not have overlap.
I hope this friggin window goes the way of the Dodo.
As far as I can see it was bound into the new neocom as everything else.. didn't worked as other windows minimized in the new neocom, more like the chat-channels..
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
Cause CCP is programming for WoD too now. Everything they do that isn't really related to EVE-Spaceship alone any more will be coded under the Carbon Architecture.
This means:
WoD needs a brandnew Neocom to interface to the brandnew client. Eve has got a stone old hardcoded Neocom, that interfaces the client directly.
Eve will be corified more and more and parts of the code won't belong directly to either WoD nor Eve alone.
The new Neocom from WoD will have to interface to those corified parts of the code. Eve's old Neocom won't be rewritten to be able to do that.
We'll get a new Neocom for Eve as it will be the Neocom code WoD will be using.
We will be guinea pigs.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Trolololol
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.22 09:42:00 -
[55]
Really, really needs an option that allows the bar to be placed vertically, docked to the left or right of the screen.
Vertical space is a lot more expensive in these days of wide screen monitors and the current trend is to make monitors even wider (meaning even less vertical space).
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:05:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Spc One on 22/12/2010 11:06:14
I don't like the new "Windows 7" look, it just needs to be vertical as others said it before.
And if you're going to change it please give an option so user can still use old interface or new interface.
Please DO NOT force this new neocom.
____________________________________________________________________________
Angel 0/A |
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:17:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
Cause CCP is programming for WoD too now. Everything they do that isn't really related to EVE-Spaceship alone any more will be coded under the Carbon Architecture.
This means:
WoD needs a brandnew Neocom to interface to the brandnew client. Eve has got a stone old hardcoded Neocom, that interfaces the client directly.
Eve will be corified more and more and parts of the code won't belong directly to either WoD nor Eve alone.
The new Neocom from WoD will have to interface to those corified parts of the code. Eve's old Neocom won't be rewritten to be able to do that.
We'll get a new Neocom for Eve as it will be the Neocom code WoD will be using.
We will be guinea pigs.
I'd like to take this opportunity to jump in and correct you on some of the Carbon issues you've been discussing. Before I start, I'd like to stress that I'm not a UI programmer, or anything related to the Neocom project at all; I am however a member of the Core group responsible, in part, for Carbon.
You're mostly correct about what the Carbon architecture means, but you're a little off base by saying that this new Neocom is being developed because WOD requires one.
The process of corification is that of taking older code that can be reused, and refactoring out it's game agnostic components to create a framework that we can use elsewhere. In any software project refactoring is generally a good idea; it allows you to revisit the original design goals, and to review as to whether or not those goals were achieved. In this case, since we're corifying a piece of software, it also allows us to not only refactor it into a more generic framework, but also to draw up a list of requirements about what each end product will need. In this case, the Carbon codebase will be used in any CCP product; EVE, WOD and any future game we might make based upon this shared technology.
In the case of the UI, many would agree that it's long required an overhaul. The trouble was that it was a house of cards; code was written on top of older code stretching back to the original sins of EVE's development. As such, adding new functionality into that codebase simply makes your job harder.
You would need to know the intricacies of the older code, plus know how to shoehorn your new designs and requirements into it in such a way that it doesn't break everything else. It's better in this case to rewrite the entire thing. This was undertaken over the summer; the entire framework that the UI was based around was rewritten to take into account the needs of a more generic framework, as well as that of a modern game UI. Having started development on a second prouduct (or more if you factor in our numerous internal tools) many of the assumptions made about use cases for the code were revisited. This new paradigm is now bearing fruit in CCP Optimal's Neocom redesign, however it's not the only area that's come under scrutiny as part of the corification project; network architecture, service layers, UI framework, build processes, ... the list goes on. The emphasis is not on using EVE as a guinea pig, but rather to pause, take stock of much of the codebase we've developed over the years and to do some much needed housekeeping on it.
The development of other projects doesn't mean that our focus and goals shift, it rather means that we must be more progressive and adaptable in our frameworks, which results in better, more easily maintainable code being written.
As I mentioned before, many of the original sins from EVE's creation can now be addressed, and hopefully all will benefit from it as a result.
Software Engineer
Core Engineering |
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.23 08:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
*snip*
You're mostly correct about what the Carbon architecture means, but you're a little off base by saying that this new Neocom is being developed because WOD requires one.
*snip*
Roger. I'll stop posting that 'we're guinea pigs' and that the new neocom was solely based on WoD needing it. 
Besides that thanks for your reply. At least some feedback from you guys. CCP Optimal could have shown his face too from time to time, ya know? Or is he already on his way home for Christmas? In that case, have a good holiday, I guess.
It's just.. I mean.. every 5th post did ask for a vertical neocom, but nothing has been said from your side. We provide feedback, but we have no idea if this feedback reaches you. We could as well talk to a wall sometimes.
Is it too much asked, that the Dev in charge of something that is on Sisi or in a Devblog takes 15 minutes out of his daily routine and tries to answer some posts/threads on forums that relate to his work?
Everyone of us here is providing valuable feedback to you guys, investing brain, thought and whatnot into helping you do your job.
There are good examples among you CCP blokes too.. look at CCP Masterplan and his replies to the comments thread to his 2 fold blog. That's what I would expect as the norm from you guys.
It's simple: you put out a blog and/or a feature for us to hammer on. You want our opinion and our testing.
We provide feedback, now you should provide feedback on our feedback too, otherwise we will get no feedback and get an idea what you're thinking about our thinking.
At the moment this whole preocess feels like it's running on a car with half pulled handbrake in the first gear driven from the backseat.
15 minutes is all I ask for. Daily as soon as there is a feature/devblog of said Dev/Group out there.
Call it forum duty or what you want.
It's important feedback FOR US.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:18:00 -
[59]
Atropos, fix! :(
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.23 11:04:00 -
[60]
Since when using a time-proven-to-be-inefficient design decisions is a progressive step?
--
Thanks CCP for cu |
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