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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.18 05:48:00 -
[1]
We can now start hammering the new neocom as seen in the dev blog by CCP Optimal.
For activating it:
1) hit [ESC]
2) 'general settings' tab
3) left pane under 'experimental features', click [enable] button
4) client will restart
I like:
- adjustable height of neocom
- direct access to training queue via 'currently trained skill feature'
- current location/autopilot waypoints seem to be sitting on separate canvases/containers/windows already.. I guess they'll be moveable soon (woooot)
- submenus only extend when clicked and stay open (can we get this for context/map submenus too?)
I've got problems/don't like:
- character sheet icon doesn't close character sheet when clicked again
- character sheet also opens when clicking on portrait (me: not a fan of redundancy)
- character portrait in neocom (don't want it there)
- neocom is BELOW other windows
- blinking icons are annoying (highlight with 1px wide frame would suit me)
- station panel doesn't have an icon from the get go as the chat channel windows or any other window (imho get rid of the station window please)
- chat channel icons behave differently too.. irritating
- playing around I managed to break the autohide function (created some new menus, dropped other windows in them, deleted menus, moved menus into each other..)
- vertical position of HUD is bound to neocom height
- might as well put the 'chat' icon to where the 'ship/itemhangar' and 'undock' icons sit, as those aren't removable either
I wish for:
- local time
- hover for skill-feature, 'ETA' optional in 'DD HH:MM:SS' instead of just 'HH:MM:SS'
- custom icons for custom menus
- custom icons for all icons
- chat channels without opt out option are fast to get up again, others like 'help' or 'blueprints' for example have to brought back via 'open channel' window.. please give option to close them, but keep them in the chat submenu
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.18 10:18:00 -
[2]
Did I mention that the neocom needs the option to be vertical? Must have slipped me somehow.. 
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Divercity
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.18 13:03:00 -
[3]
Two small bugs I noticed,
1. When you open the 'Bookmark' tab, then change to another menu the 'Bookmark' tab stays open.
2. You can't bring a brower page back up once you minimize it.
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Skuggis
Systembolaget
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Posted - 2010.12.18 13:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tres Farmer
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/12/2010 06:01:25
We can now start hammering the new neocom as seen in the dev blog by CCP Optimal.
For activating it:
- hit [ESC]
- 'general settings' tab
- left pane under 'experimental features', click [enable] button
- client will restart
I like:
- adjustable height of neocom
- direct access to training queue via 'currently trained skill feature'
- current location/autopilot waypoints seem to be sitting on separate canvases/containers/windows already.. I guess they'll be moveable soon (woooot)
- submenus only extend when clicked and stay open (can we get this for context/map submenus too?)
I've got problems/don't like:
- character sheet icon doesn't close character sheet when clicked again
- character sheet also opens when clicking on portrait (me: not a fan of redundancy)
- character portrait in neocom (don't want it there)
- neocom is BELOW other windows
- blinking icons are annoying (highlight with 1px wide frame would suit me)
- station panel doesn't have an icon from the get go as the chat channel windows or any other window (imho get rid of the station window please)
- chat channel icons behave differently too.. irritating
- playing around I managed to break the autohide function (created some new menus, dropped other windows in them, deleted menus, moved menus into each other..)
- vertical position of HUD is bound to neocom height
- might as well put the 'chat' icon to where the 'ship/itemhangar' and 'undock' icons sit, as those aren't removable either
I wish for:
- - local time
- hover for skill-feature, 'ETA' optional in 'DD HH:MM:SS' instead of just 'HH:MM:SS'
- custom icons for custom menus
- custom icons for all icons
- chat channels without opt out option are fast to get up again, others like 'help' or 'blueprints' for example have to brought back via 'open channel' window.. please give option to close them, but keep them in the chat submenu
I pretty much agree with everything Tres Farmer writes, there's one small addition I'd like however that would ease my gameplay tons. This being a little box that works like the map browser search feature works so you could just type in Nakri or whatever and get a small popup, right click and set destination. Instead of having to pull up the map browser (Takes a while with my computer), search, set destination and close it again.
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Miriam Letisse
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Posted - 2010.12.18 14:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Skuggis
This being a little box that works like the map browser search feature works so you could just type in Nakri or whatever and get a small popup, right click and set destination. Instead of having to pull up the map browser (Takes a while with my computer), search, set destination and close it again.
Indeed! Perhaps other things too, like a box that when given the name of an item automatically brings up a show info window or avarage price information.
You could call them apps..
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CHEERWlNE
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Posted - 2010.12.18 14:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: CHEERWlNE on 18/12/2010 14:30:30
It's nice but there absolutely has to be an option to make it vertical again as Widescreen users have less screen real estate.
Also I like how you can resize it, I immediately made it thin. 
EDIT: Also I think some of the icons should be remade, they look a bit old and musty now - especially at the default size of the new neocom.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.12.18 14:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 18/12/2010 14:35:38
I've got problems:
- CTRL-F9 (hide UI) doesn't hide the neocom, it only hide the other UI elements.
Currently I wouldnt want to use the new neocom in game. I would need more mouseclicks and a lot more mouse-movements to access the stuff I want to access.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Royal Guardsmen
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Posted - 2010.12.18 14:45:00 -
[8]
I like the new NeoCom
Everyone understands how to use it as its quite OS-like.
Some things noticed:
- You can't remove the chat button, and its hellishly annoying blinking every 1 second at you when you don't want it (Note: Its the button I have no interest in, all my chat windows ar eopen and we already see blinking tabs in channels).
- I can count a number of yet-unnamed "ui_calls" as menu options, category options.
- You can't put station icons on the taskbar. I'd prefer to have these than the huge station slab on the right side of the screen when in station (Maybe the agents/guest lists/corp offices can be reached from elsewhere in the NeoCom main menu?).
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Amelie Cassi
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Posted - 2010.12.18 15:24:00 -
[9]
I hate.
The "windows like bar" is awful. The actual interface is simple and effective, there's no need to change for something more complicated with useless options. I don't think that accessing the Incursions panel or something else in one click instead of two will change anything. If you want to work on accessibility, you better translate the help in the most played languages. I also hate the black transparent box behind the system informations, the route, and the planetary interaction menus.
So please, allow us to choose between the two interfaces, even in one or five years. I could stop playing to Eve Online because of this new interface.
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Desmont McCallock
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Posted - 2010.12.18 15:48:00 -
[10]
Looks like CCP is really sympathetic towards MS (therefore the new NeoCom design).
If CCP sticks to that design, I would definitely want to be able to move it around (dockable on all monitor sides).
And here is my bug report.
If you spam the "training queue" button before the related window appears, you get as many windows as you clicked.
I suspect that the logic checks if the window is open instead of checking if the button was pressed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.18 15:58:00 -
[11]
I haven't had (nor will I have at any point in the next couple of weeks) time to get this new build up and running, but I'm wondering about something that often goes wrong with these kind of UIs:
Have they managed to keep the "mile high button" functionality? I.e. is there a gap anywhere between the neocom buttons and the edge of the screen?
Since they're copying Windows, I'm afraid that they'll also accidentally copy MS' inability to understand this very simple UI concept: that things (buttons, fields, whathaveyou) that sit at the edge of the screen shouldà wellà sit at the edge of the screen, and that even that very last pixel at the edge should let you activate said buttons and fields.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Greshick
Gallente
Armored Elite
Concordokken.
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna
Some things noticed:
- You can't remove the chat button, and its hellishly annoying blinking every 1 second at you when you don't want it (Note: Its the button I have no interest in, all my chat windows ar eopen and we already see blinking tabs in channels).
Yeah we should also be able to delete that button, or at least stop the blinking.
Otherwise I like it.
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Katarina reid
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:14:00 -
[13]
is good just let me turn off blinking icons it way to distracting
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia
*snip*
Have they managed to keep the "mile high button" functionality? I.e. is there a gap anywhere between the neocom buttons and the edge of the screen?
*snip*
I was looking at it very closely and the button(s) react until the arrow turns into the ms-window-seizer (for vertically resizing the window).
So, yeah.. they didn't copy windows there.
Though, looking at my Win7 Taskbar I can't see that fault. The cursor is right at the last pixel of the screen and hovering buttons still highlights them (or gets them activated when clicked). Looks like Win7 managed to get rid of that.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Hiram Alexander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.18 18:10:00 -
[15]
This was my first time using the new UI, and on first impressions..
1. I like it, overall.
2. I like the small portrait next to the name, but I couldn't find a way to 'Capture Portrait' - anywhere...
3. I like that it used my alt's first initial - as the full name wouldn't have fitted. (I don't think)
4. I like the Auto-hide, but I found that if you've locked the height of the UI, once it hides it won't come back - you need to unlock its height again.
I'll probably have better feedback once I've used it more.
--HA
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.18 18:22:00 -
[16]
I love the bottom of screen location for the neocom. Side of the screen had always bothered me creating a busy and distracting frame element that unbalanced the display of in-space ui. Hiding it was not really a good option since it always messed with the windows positions when moving in or out.
Some comments on the new implementation:
- The bar itself needs to somehow better match the rest of the ui 3-D geometry. It looks good, but stands out by being a little too round, I think.
- The current function icons graphically do not work very well with the new bar or each other (with a few exceptions). The icons need to conform to some style, maybe something like the 'interface' elements from most of the recent CCP videos. Maybe the styles could be different for all races, but they do need to look much more hi-tech as opposed to something like the People and Places or chat icons that look like something out of a Monopoly game.
- I'd like to be able to name groups, and have that name show up on mouse-over.
- The skill training status display is too 'large' and doesn't conform to other status bars used in other places. Skill training time should be DD HH:MM:SS, as has been mentioned already.
It's great that graphical ui is finally being looked at. I'm hoping in-space ship ui is also being worked on, especially the 'heat' interface. I'm also hoping that we will soon see something useful made out of the seldom used F11 panel.
...
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Glorious CEO
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:12:00 -
[17]
-When set to "autohide" the weapon controls don't move with it, making hiding the bar pointless. This is noticable mostly when you have made the bar rather wide.
-minimized windows leave the corresponding button permalit. (Not with chat)
-the background on location and route makes no sense just adds clutter.
-getting to corp or fleet now takes three clicks not one (I'am aware you can change that, but still..)
-grouping weapons button is nice
One more thing. I have never heard anyone complaining about the old neocom much. I do, however, hear complaints about, including, but not limited to:
- inflight bookmarking
- drone controls
- the >>>O V E R V I E W<<< and setting it up.
- O V E R H E A TINggggg (FFFFFUUUU)
So, that said, if you feel like fixing stuff, maybe, just maybe start with **** that actually is broken or cumbersome to use.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
I was looking at it very closely and the button(s) react until the arrow turns into the ms-window-seizer (for vertically resizing the window).
So, yeah.. they didn't copy windows there.
Though, looking at my Win7 Taskbar I can't see that fault. The cursor is right at the last pixel of the screen and hovering buttons still highlights them (or gets them activated when clicked). Looks like Win7 managed to get rid of that.
Excellent to hear
And yes, I think they've (Microsoft that is) started to get the hang of it to some extent, but they used to completely miss the point ù some versions of the start button in the lower left corner that didn't let you click the button if you put the mouse pointer in the lower-left corner being the most facepalming move of them allà I think they've fixed it with some of the task bar content, but you still see it with the window drop-down menus for instance.
àanywayà</UI pet peeve rant>
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Illuria Malprosit
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2010.12.18 20:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Illuria Malprosit on 18/12/2010 20:59:00
This is something that bugs me with the new windows:
I roleplay, and run a corp. And because of this, I have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30 active channels open. I'm normally pretty good at staying on top of things with them. I have them stacked according to focus, and I minimize the ones that aren't in use.
However, this new UI means I can't do that. Since it piles all my stacks of windows together as one. So I can't see what's blinking...not that it matters since minimized chat windows don't blink when someone posts in the new UI, and I can't see where one stack starts, and another ends.
Suggestions to fix this:
give the ability to sort how stacks are created. So I can minimize a block of windows, and have them show as a separate item instead of as one. And since there's no visible text associated with the icon anymore, let us colourcode the icons.
If this neocom becomes mandatory without this...I don't know what I'll do, I can't not have those windows open.
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.18 21:49:00 -
[20]
N
E
E
D
S
M
O
R
E
V
E
R
T
I
C
A
L
.
It would also be nice if we could lock the task bar, uh, I mean neocom.
Is anyone else having problems with the chat button swallowing chat windows and not giving them back?
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Spytor
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Posted - 2010.12.18 22:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spytor on 18/12/2010 22:42:18
It's better, but not that good.
Need to be able to move the NEOcom to any position on the screen.
1.) Allow us to reshape the box the buttons are in. You want it run across or up one side,okay. How about being able to reshape the box into a 3 X 3 grind or a 4 X 3. that you can stick in a corner of your screen.
2.) Even better allow use to do away with the NEOcom box and place the buttons wherever we would like on the screen. Right click, unlock button, drag to desired position, right click, lock button, done.
3.) In the spirit of #2. Allow use to move everything in the UI to anywhere we want it. Why are we locked into these ridged forms on the UI?
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 23:46:00 -
[22]
Ok my thoughts
To Mac and window's 7. Mean kinda looks like you ripped them off that way.
Next, maybe put some themes for it, or selectable skins, I for one would like hologram type stuff like in the videos.
Finally
Needs
More
Vertical
!
!
!
I like vertical tool bars, neocomms, taskbars. Thats how i have my desk tops set up and I like it in games.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Oneironautics Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.12.19 03:29:00 -
[23]
Has anyone ever actually complained about the neocom? I always thought it was a very decent design.
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Lirael Dyrim
Gallente
In Bacon We Trust
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:13:00 -
[24]
Having the undock button on the other side is rather confusing. After activating the new neocom I couldn't find the contracts button (Is there one or am I just stupid?) so had to go through my character info to find it.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aeo IV
Has anyone ever actually complained about the neocom? I always thought it was a very decent design.
Nope, but I assume CCP builds a new corified interface for it to work with the stuff that WoD uses (they'll need a neocom too I guess).
So, welcome to the lab-rats-club. 
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Lionel Redstar
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Posted - 2010.12.19 11:46:00 -
[26]
3 bugs found:
1) Clicking fast on the training queue in the bar opens multiple skill queue windows. See 2010.12.19.11.19.00.jpg attached
2) Browser's BM from menu remains open until menu is closed. See 2010.12.19.11.18.43.jpg attached
3) Clicking the chats icon in the bar when it's flashing cause the icon to get sticky and move trough the bar until clicked again.
Steps for each bug:
1) Just click fast on the skill queue in the bar.
2) Open menu, click Accessories, click Bookmarks. Bookmarks menu opens. Click other expandable menu (Business or social). The Bookmarks remains open until the menu is closed.
3) Wait for chat icon to blink. Click it. It get sticky to the mouse and moves trough the other icons like rearrange.
Bugs reported #104631
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Georgiy Giggle
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Posted - 2010.12.19 12:43:00 -
[27]
In total, i realy like the idea about new neocom.
But there is one thing i REALY HATE - training skill view. OMG! What is that? 
Just simple gray rectangle on background.
Please! PLEASE add some gradient, and border, and\or something else.
Do not leave as it on this screenshot: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/neocom02.jpg
If can make something better, please spend some hours to change it. Cuz, it's realy muddy.
Thanks.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.20 11:19:00 -
[28]
*bump*
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Aylara
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Posted - 2010.12.20 11:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Aylara on 20/12/2010 11:27:03
I love the new neocom.
Bugs:
- autohide option; when selected it hides the neocom for good (if you locked height), can't make it to show up again unless i reset the client
- minimizing windows with autohide on, makes those windows go for good too
- icon blinking: some of the icons keep blinking, even if you opened and closed the respective section; after a while it gets really distracting
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.12.20 13:22:00 -
[30]
First issue: Fixed Window mode appears to be trying to take into account the Windows Task bar. It makes an assumption as to its height and Eve seems to size its window accordingly. However the height isn't correct and the NeoCom becomes partly covered at a one title-bar task bar height, and fully covered at two. IMO, Eve does not need to worry about the windows task bar. Most people know how to alt + tab, hit the windows key or use ctrl + escape, or various others windows play things.
Chat Icon: I understand it is there as an active window, and therefore seems entitled to its own little neurotic stop-fcking-blinking NeoCom item, but may I please remove it? It is redundant to the nature of chat windows. If I minimize one. ok, then auto poof a task bar item, but open and active chats don't need it.
Locking height makes sense, how about a also simple lock? Often I find I am dragging NeoCom buttons around when I don't mean too. They seem overly sensitive to the lazy click.
Training Queue area takes up a lot of real estate, does it really need to be this big?
The "Start Button E" could stand to be a bit larger.
It would be nice if we could name our generic groups, and maybe give them whatever color we wanted too. Being able to assign a hot key to generic groups would be kinda snazzy too. Also what would be snazzy is, since the client already has and knows where all the corp emblem doodads are, let us use those to further customize our groups. Just make it a client side thing.
IMO, it is a mistake to clutter up the Taskbar with launchable icons by default. Instead players could be made aware they can do it if they wish, or make groups if they wish. But nice and clean looks ... nice and clean, and it keeps it looking nice and clean when you start to have a bunch of open things, and some are minimized. Minimized and an launchable icon, minimized and no launchable icon, no launchable icon and open ... that's three states for two display signals ... know what I mean? Perhaps alter the highlight of an active item that is open to a high lighted border, minimized to half lit, and launchable an not active (not open or minimized) to no highlight at all.
Personally, I'd prefer if I could make my groups and all my short cuts on the "start menu" and not the task bar. NT4 habits die hard. OR, let me slide my groups way over next to the "start E".
Might I suggest you guys come up with common vernacular names for these elements so that we may refer to them in Eve-Speak instead of Windows-Speak? For example, Start Button -> Eve Button, Task Bar -> NeoBar, Start Menu -> Eve Menu, etc and point out these elements with pics and arrows in the next dev-blog on this subject. Don't let us cynical pod pilots name them, seize the marketing opportunity while we let you, as it were.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 17:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
It would be nice if we could name our generic groups, and maybe give them whatever color we wanted too. Being able to assign a hot key to generic groups would be kinda snazzy too. Also what would be snazzy is, since the client already has and knows where all the corp emblem doodads are, let us use those to further customize our groups. Just make it a client side thing.
This is a pretty cool idea. In fact it would be useful to have a new set of 'doodads' to customize all the neocon icons.
It would be nice to stickie this thread and have some dev acknowledge its existence. Thx.
...
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:09:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
Also, while you're at it CCP, why don't you fix the current one? I still can't move my mouse all the way to the left and click on anything. There's 10 pixels of dead space there.
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Amelie Cassi
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
+1
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
It is unintelligent to ask that CCP maintain two sets if complex interface elements that perform the same function.
...
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:15:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 19:18:09
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
It is unintelligent to ask that CCP maintain two sets if complex interface elements that perform the same function.
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
To clarify, because that was rather short, I click my Neocom maybe once every 30 minutes. Maybe to access the wallet or the characters info. Why? Because I have everything I need in the main screen. My ship, my hangar bay, my cargo bay, my ship information, all my ship menus, all the chat windows are IN the screen. Everything works fine.
I don't need something which is going to take up a) more screen real estate and b) clutter me with submenus.
Right now the Neocom works well because you click a button and then it pops a new dialog window up right away. Submenus SUCK. CCP, weren't we trying to minimize the amount of submenus we have to go through to get to something? Mouse having to follow things IS VERY OLD.
Please, keep both options ingame if you want to inflict us with a major UI change. As I said before, Microsoft left the old start menu interface in newer versions because IT WORKED. There's a reason Windows XP is still the most widely used OS in the world in 2010. Because it was SIMPLE.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
CCP blogged about planned features of the new neocom, put it on SISI over one month before release, and will have it as an optional TQ beta feature when it goes live. During all this time CCP will be reviewing player comments and bugreports to be used for possible improvements.
Apparently you are unaware of all of this.
Also, you are not "the player base".
...
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Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
This would lead to major issues scheduling in game events, however I would live to see a hover over tool-tip that shows a countdown to next downtime and if you like a +/- hours from EvE time to client local time.
So +4hours DT: 13hours
-CJ
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 20:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
CCP blogged about planned features of the new neocom, put it on SISI over one month before release, and will have it as an optional TQ beta feature when it goes live. During all this time CCP will be reviewing player comments and bugreports to be used for possible improvements.
Apparently you are unaware of all of this.
Also, you are not "the player base".
I read it. You need to read better. I also know how CCP thinks. I know that they'll throw us something, a few people will like it, the complainers will go to the forums instead of filing bug reports and we'll be left with something some people don't want. There are so many nitpicky things I don't like CCP has done and still don't like. But I play because I love the game. I just don't have to love the choices the developers always make.
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I read it. You need to read better. I also know how CCP thinks. I know that they'll throw us something, a few people will like it, the complainers will go to the forums instead of filing bug reports and we'll be left with something some people don't want. There are so many nitpicky things I don't like CCP has done and still don't like. But I play because I love the game. I just don't have to love the choices the developers always make.
And here you are complaining on the forums... which makes you part of which group?
Can I have you stuff? 
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jay Wareth
And here you are complaining on the forums... which makes you part of which group?
Can I have you stuff?
The group of people who cares about quality control and not just re-releasing working things because "it was something for the staff to do."
And no, you can't have my stuff. You wouldn't know what to do with all of it.
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Nv Sheng
Interstellar Archaeology
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Posted - 2010.12.20 23:54:00 -
[41]
After logging onto SISSI and playing around with the new NEOCOM for a bit I'm not certain if I like it. It's not too radical a shift from what we already have, which is good. Why they changed the order of the icons is odd, but it wasn't too difficult to find everything. The EVE Channel thing seemed hyper redundant because I can just make buttons for everything (and why they aren't there as a default is another odd thing).
Unfortunately, like so many others, there are other things I would rather see the Devs spend their time fixing. Like the fonts in every dammed window. Too small, unless I set my screen size to be tiny, but then there isn't room for anything on screen. Letting us change the size of the fonts doesn't seem like something that would break the game, but it apparently is because they haven't even thought about giving us that.
My $0.000000000001
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.20 23:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/12/2010 18:10:01
CCP, the Neocom works fine on TQ.
Please make this an OPTION, not a necessary change. I like my Neocom.
Also, while you're at it CCP, why don't you fix the current one? I still can't move my mouse all the way to the left and click on anything. There's 10 pixels of dead space there.
I've never once in the last 3 years noticed this, what are you doing wrong?
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.21 04:52:00 -
[43]
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right. 
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Candente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:06:00 -
[44]
not considering to use it until the vertical and auto-hide options are added
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rawr~ |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:50:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
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Jay Wareth
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:35:00 -
[46]
Well, yeah, I was wondering that too.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
Because everybody knows if you build a castle on a mountain made of sand, it will sink. Much like the quality control is doing when they haven't finished or refined one thing before they launch off to work on something else.
I propose they fix the FEW bugs/issues with the current Neocom and make it 100% functional in all ways before they make another one. The house built on a solid foundation will last through weather. The one built on sand will crumble.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 07:07:45
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 06:59:18
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
Because everybody knows if you build a castle on a mountain made of sand, it will sink. Much like the quality control is doing when they haven't finished or refined one thing before they launch off to work on something else.
I propose they fix the FEW bugs/issues with the current Neocom and make it 100% functional in all ways before they make another one. The house built on a solid foundation will last through weather. The one built on sand will crumble.
They simply can't.
Don't you get it?
CCP is corifying EVERYTHING now. Be it context-menus, be it the neocom, be it the server nodes.. everything gets corified.
CCP will never ever again touch the code of the old Neocom to get it 100% working.
They will make a new one, which then can also be used for WoD and what the hell else they got in their minds.
Deal with it.
And yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll get windows with adjustable font sizes too for this.. And know why? Because they CORIFY it. The actual window engine can't handle other fonts as it can't react/adjust to bigger fonts (otherwise we would have it, it's a simple matter of borders not resizable).. or whatever the user sets. The OLD code isn't that flexible.
Without WoD we wouldn't even talking about this.
Please start to adjust your view and see the whole picture. The Devs here aren't working for EVE-Spaceships alone any more. They work for Dust/WoD too. Everything that benefits ALL 3 games will have the biggest chance of being worked on.
And yeah, this means we're guinea-pigs. 
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Jaranis
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:46:00 -
[49]
New necom is an excellent bodge-job for getting OSX windowed client working! I like!
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:50:00 -
[50]
not much too say ;
beta too early, way too much bugs and not enough features to test
from what i saw i'll see that either it was done in 2 hours, or you waste your time here.
also what i want to do on the final product :
allow us to divide the pannel who have more than 1 tab
that's the only interest of the new interface you're creating here. there is nothing to personalize if we can't do that.
i want to be able for example ;
* to have the menu industry who open and be able to click from the menu to either planets, research, BPs...
* be able to put a shortcut to one of these on the menu
all that without having open the RD pannel first and then chosing
same thing for contracts
and, most important for peoples and places : i have tojns of contacts and BMs, it takes ages to load. i want these 2 things to be totally separated.
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.21 19:39:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 21/12/2010 19:46:15
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
And it is unwise to tell the player base "here's a new system, use it whether you like it or not" when many people don't want to play Windows Spaceships. We want to play Eve.
Good UI design is good UI design. It doesn't matter if it comes from an OS or a game.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
To clarify, because that was rather short, I click my Neocom maybe once every 30 minutes. Maybe to access the wallet or the characters info. Why? Because I have everything I need in the main screen. My ship, my hangar bay, my cargo bay, my ship information, all my ship menus, all the chat windows are IN the screen. Everything works fine.
I don't click on the NeoCom ever and I keep it auto-hidden, since I have everything mapped to a keyboard shortcut, which is much faster and more efficient. The only thing I ever use it for is to see when my wallet has changed from the blinking, for example.
That said, even I can see that this is a definite improvement over the old 2004 version. Maybe you should actually try it out instead of being reactionary and whining about the very idea of a new interface.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I don't need something which is going to take up a) more screen real estate and b) clutter me with submenus.
Right now the Neocom works well because you click a button and then it pops a new dialog window up right away. Submenus SUCK. CCP, weren't we trying to minimize the amount of submenus we have to go through to get to something? Mouse having to follow things IS VERY OLD.
You sound like you looked at it for about five seconds and didn't actually use it. You don't need to use submenus after you set up the bar. You pin the things you use to the bar and guess what? It work virtually just like it does now. It's more customizable, is all. As far as "taking more screen real estate", it takes up about one pixel of screen real-estate just like it does now if you auto-hide it, and even if you don't, you can shrink it to be very small. It actually takes less space, since shortcuts to open windows and already-open minimized windows share the same icon.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Zora'e
Amarr
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hiram Alexander
This was my first time using the new UI, and on first impressions..
1. I like it, overall.
2. I like the small portrait next to the name, but I couldn't find a way to 'Capture Portrait' - anywhere...
3. I like that it used my alt's first initial - as the full name wouldn't have fitted. (I don't think)
4. I like the Auto-hide, but I found that if you've locked the height of the UI, once it hides it won't come back - you need to unlock its height again.
I'll probably have better feedback once I've used it more.
--HA
An additional issue that I noted with the new neocom is when you drag the task bar down to it's smallest size, lock it and then also use the auto hide feature... the neocom bar will no longer slide back up when you mouse down on the lower part of the screen. However it will still slide back up with the auto hide feature if the task bar is left the original size. It may simply be the locking that does it as you say.. I had that issue, switched back to the normal neocom and haven't looked back.
I personally dislike it at the bottom. It takes more screen space than at the side. As others have said, I would like the option to place it where I want it.
Also as others have said.. the transparent black boxes for system info etc just REALLY need to go. There was/is nothing wrong with the previous manner in which that information was displayed and the only actual addition I see to the display for it is you added a stupid transparency to the information.
LESS is more in this case CCP. I really don't need addition boxes cluttering up my screen, especially when they serve no REAL function at all.
-
Ceiling Cat may be watching you, but Basement Cat is shooting at you! |
Ytamii Arval
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:15:00 -
[53]
Amazing how annoying the Neo becomes when positioned at the bottom of the screen; it's those damned blinking icons! Not to mention that items on the "start" menu aren't even alphabetized. Not to mention the clumsiness of multi-level cascading menus. Not to mention that you have to reduce the height of Station Information to not have overlap.
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.22 03:07:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Amazing how annoying the Neo becomes when positioned at the bottom of the screen; it's those damned blinking icons!
I'm with ya sister. Don't like the blinking either.. a simple highlighted border (no blinking would be enough to signal needed attention). Would prefer this to be disable for certain buttons then too.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention that items on the "start" menu aren't even alphabetized.
I think you'll be able to arrange them how you want it later on.
Put it on a [WANTED] list to make sure CCP Optimal puts it on his list.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention the clumsiness of multi-level cascading menus.
Most needed buttons can be drag+dropped where you want them. Again, make it a [WANTED] list.
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Not to mention that you have to reduce the height of Station Information to not have overlap.
I hope this friggin window goes the way of the Dodo.
As far as I can see it was bound into the new neocom as everything else.. didn't worked as other windows minimized in the new neocom, more like the chat-channels..
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
Cause CCP is programming for WoD too now. Everything they do that isn't really related to EVE-Spaceship alone any more will be coded under the Carbon Architecture.
This means:
WoD needs a brandnew Neocom to interface to the brandnew client. Eve has got a stone old hardcoded Neocom, that interfaces the client directly.
Eve will be corified more and more and parts of the code won't belong directly to either WoD nor Eve alone.
The new Neocom from WoD will have to interface to those corified parts of the code. Eve's old Neocom won't be rewritten to be able to do that.
We'll get a new Neocom for Eve as it will be the Neocom code WoD will be using.
We will be guinea pigs.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Trolololol
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.22 09:42:00 -
[55]
Really, really needs an option that allows the bar to be placed vertically, docked to the left or right of the screen.
Vertical space is a lot more expensive in these days of wide screen monitors and the current trend is to make monitors even wider (meaning even less vertical space).
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:05:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Spc One on 22/12/2010 11:06:14
I don't like the new "Windows 7" look, it just needs to be vertical as others said it before.
And if you're going to change it please give an option so user can still use old interface or new interface.
Please DO NOT force this new neocom.
____________________________________________________________________________
Angel 0/A |
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:17:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
I just can't understand why any dev time is being wasted like this. The UI has so many problems, why redesign one of the few parts that isn't broken?
Cause CCP is programming for WoD too now. Everything they do that isn't really related to EVE-Spaceship alone any more will be coded under the Carbon Architecture.
This means:
WoD needs a brandnew Neocom to interface to the brandnew client. Eve has got a stone old hardcoded Neocom, that interfaces the client directly.
Eve will be corified more and more and parts of the code won't belong directly to either WoD nor Eve alone.
The new Neocom from WoD will have to interface to those corified parts of the code. Eve's old Neocom won't be rewritten to be able to do that.
We'll get a new Neocom for Eve as it will be the Neocom code WoD will be using.
We will be guinea pigs.
I'd like to take this opportunity to jump in and correct you on some of the Carbon issues you've been discussing. Before I start, I'd like to stress that I'm not a UI programmer, or anything related to the Neocom project at all; I am however a member of the Core group responsible, in part, for Carbon.
You're mostly correct about what the Carbon architecture means, but you're a little off base by saying that this new Neocom is being developed because WOD requires one.
The process of corification is that of taking older code that can be reused, and refactoring out it's game agnostic components to create a framework that we can use elsewhere. In any software project refactoring is generally a good idea; it allows you to revisit the original design goals, and to review as to whether or not those goals were achieved. In this case, since we're corifying a piece of software, it also allows us to not only refactor it into a more generic framework, but also to draw up a list of requirements about what each end product will need. In this case, the Carbon codebase will be used in any CCP product; EVE, WOD and any future game we might make based upon this shared technology.
In the case of the UI, many would agree that it's long required an overhaul. The trouble was that it was a house of cards; code was written on top of older code stretching back to the original sins of EVE's development. As such, adding new functionality into that codebase simply makes your job harder.
You would need to know the intricacies of the older code, plus know how to shoehorn your new designs and requirements into it in such a way that it doesn't break everything else. It's better in this case to rewrite the entire thing. This was undertaken over the summer; the entire framework that the UI was based around was rewritten to take into account the needs of a more generic framework, as well as that of a modern game UI. Having started development on a second prouduct (or more if you factor in our numerous internal tools) many of the assumptions made about use cases for the code were revisited. This new paradigm is now bearing fruit in CCP Optimal's Neocom redesign, however it's not the only area that's come under scrutiny as part of the corification project; network architecture, service layers, UI framework, build processes, ... the list goes on. The emphasis is not on using EVE as a guinea pig, but rather to pause, take stock of much of the codebase we've developed over the years and to do some much needed housekeeping on it.
The development of other projects doesn't mean that our focus and goals shift, it rather means that we must be more progressive and adaptable in our frameworks, which results in better, more easily maintainable code being written.
As I mentioned before, many of the original sins from EVE's creation can now be addressed, and hopefully all will benefit from it as a result.
Software Engineer
Core Engineering |
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.23 08:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
*snip*
You're mostly correct about what the Carbon architecture means, but you're a little off base by saying that this new Neocom is being developed because WOD requires one.
*snip*
Roger. I'll stop posting that 'we're guinea pigs' and that the new neocom was solely based on WoD needing it. 
Besides that thanks for your reply. At least some feedback from you guys. CCP Optimal could have shown his face too from time to time, ya know? Or is he already on his way home for Christmas? In that case, have a good holiday, I guess.
It's just.. I mean.. every 5th post did ask for a vertical neocom, but nothing has been said from your side. We provide feedback, but we have no idea if this feedback reaches you. We could as well talk to a wall sometimes.
Is it too much asked, that the Dev in charge of something that is on Sisi or in a Devblog takes 15 minutes out of his daily routine and tries to answer some posts/threads on forums that relate to his work?
Everyone of us here is providing valuable feedback to you guys, investing brain, thought and whatnot into helping you do your job.
There are good examples among you CCP blokes too.. look at CCP Masterplan and his replies to the comments thread to his 2 fold blog. That's what I would expect as the norm from you guys.
It's simple: you put out a blog and/or a feature for us to hammer on. You want our opinion and our testing.
We provide feedback, now you should provide feedback on our feedback too, otherwise we will get no feedback and get an idea what you're thinking about our thinking.
At the moment this whole preocess feels like it's running on a car with half pulled handbrake in the first gear driven from the backseat.
15 minutes is all I ask for. Daily as soon as there is a feature/devblog of said Dev/Group out there.
Call it forum duty or what you want.
It's important feedback FOR US.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:18:00 -
[59]
Atropos, fix! :(
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.23 11:04:00 -
[60]
Since when using a time-proven-to-be-inefficient design decisions is a progressive step?
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Thanks CCP for cu |
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Zilnam Haa
Gallente
Seniors Clan
DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.12.24 17:22:00 -
[61]
Thanks Dev's for the UI work so far. I realize it's still in infancy and wish more players/posters in here did also.
I believe most games don't ask for much player wants/needs/wishes as CCP does, thanks for this input and chance to input our concerns.
Looking forward to the next UI phase on SiSI as this iteration is a bit buggy. I cant get local up in Beta UI.
Any hint as to when next UI update here will be?
Thanks & drink hearty!
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Liu Ellens
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.25 11:49:00 -
[62]
In sum: Interesting; I like the idea to be able to fully arrange all the icons I need.
Redundancy topics:
- (Mentioned earlier): Character Sheet button not needed for extra character field (face icon)
- (rather big) Name & Skill Queue field not needed -- Context menu on face icon?
- Dedicated calendar icon not needed, click on date/time sufficient
Bug:
- When added to the bar, the "Contracts" icon does not open the contracts window & when opened via menu, the icon behaves like a group with two "Contracts" windows where only one works
Revolutionary Idea:
Remove the current 'Station Information' window when docked;
- Station info (owner): To the location box at the top left.
- Station services: To bar (like Items and Ships already are)
- Lists (Guests, Agents, Offices): To bar as well
--
We race. We die. There is no beauty anymore. |
m3talc0re X
Caldari
SandStorm.
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Posted - 2010.12.26 00:30:00 -
[63]
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but the tool tips saying the name of everything you hover over (which already have names there anyway) is pretty annoying...
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.12.26 19:49:00 -
[64]
I like it for the most part. The "highlighted" icon (white background) is a bit too strong.
On the new autopilot route display (which is awesome), would it be possible to highlight waypoints more? Say, with a red border or something like that? :-)
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St'oto
freelancers inc
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.12.27 06:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 07:07:45
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/12/2010 06:59:18
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jay Wareth
I never noticed it either, but I went and checked earlier. I'll be damned if she isn't right.
I don't doubt he isn't correct.
I'm just wondering why we're making mountains out of specks of sand.
Because everybody knows if you build a castle on a mountain made of sand, it will sink. Much like the quality control is doing when they haven't finished or refined one thing before they launch off to work on something else.
I propose they fix the FEW bugs/issues with the current Neocom and make it 100% functional in all ways before they make another one. The house built on a solid foundation will last through weather. The one built on sand will crumble.
They simply can't.
Don't you get it?
CCP is corifying EVERYTHING now. Be it context-menus, be it the neocom, be it the server nodes.. everything gets corified.
CCP will never ever again touch the code of the old Neocom to get it 100% working.
They will make a new one, which then can also be used for WoD and what the hell else they got in their minds.
Deal with it.
And yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll get windows with adjustable font sizes too for this.. And know why? Because they CORIFY it. The actual window engine can't handle other fonts as it can't react/adjust to bigger fonts (otherwise we would have it, it's a simple matter of borders not resizable).. or whatever the user sets. The OLD code isn't that flexible.
Without WoD we wouldn't even talking about this.
Please start to adjust your view and see the whole picture. The Devs here aren't working for EVE-Spaceships alone any more. They work for Dust/WoD too. Everything that benefits ALL 3 games will have the biggest chance of being worked on.
And yeah, this means we're guinea-pigs.
I guess you think this is a good thing? I don't give 2 ****es about WoD considering I pay for Eve. So why should I or anyone else have to put up with features that aren't really needed just because CCP wants to get a head of the game when it comes to another title? Unless I get their other titles for free(as I'm not paying for that twilight wannabee, or console shooter.) as a result of these addition then I don't give a ****e. I want Eve, not Tech demo's, and beta's for two other games that CCP are making.
OnTopic : The new neocom is honestly crap. It takes up to much room. The last thing I wanna do is spend more then 5 seconds at most accessing stuff I need to access. Especially when I'm in a combat situation and I need to get a look at something on the fly in mid warp or something.(it can happen.) With this system it would probably kill me every time. Also I have Windows 7 already I don't need a beta on Windows 8 atm.
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Intar Medris
Amarr
EntroPrelatial Vanguard
EntroPraetorian Aegis
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Posted - 2010.12.27 09:50:00 -
[66]
Don't have to much to say beside that I like the fact that it give all the side to side space I could ever hope for.
I also like to new routes are displayed. No need to check the map to make sure I am not going to have to go though low sec since 0.5 and 0.4 look so close in color, and you can't tell the difference with the current little dots.
I Make Forums For Corps And Alliances. 50 Mil ISK
See Example Forum To Get A Idea of What Your's Could Look Like
Example Forum |
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 09:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Aeo IV
Has anyone ever actually complained about the neocom? I always thought it was a very decent design.
The fact that you can't change the font actively drives away potential players. (At least one that I know).
The UI has always needed a major overhaul and I'm glad to see it is finally happening.
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Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:20:00 -
[68]
ANY CCP GMs AROUND? PLEASE, MAKE THIS THREAD STICKY OR POST AN OFFICIAL ONE 
___________________________________
BECKS
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Alec Kerry
Gallente
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2010.12.28 13:34:00 -
[69]
Silly question, I'm trying to get the contracts button to stick on the new neocom, but whenever I log out the setting does not appear to get saved and I have to drag it back onto the neocom everytime I log in.
Whats the trick to getting it to stick ?
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Q Aa
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Posted - 2010.12.28 16:05:00 -
[70]
I've been playing around with it for an hour or so now.
1. We should be able to put icons anywhere on the screen (would look amazing when auto-hiding the neocome just to have the ones you think are most important always viable)
2. Vertical option please.
3. I read the devblog and it says when you click the browser you should be able to get a list of bookmarks (looking like the chat icon when you press it) but it doesn't work. That would be great!
4. we should be able to have more stuff as icons on the neocom for example "Contacts" would be great so that u wont have to click many times to see them.
5. We should be able to have bookmarks on the neocom separate aswell as chat windows, notes, playlists for the jukebox, corporation tabs, Planets with the view in planet mode option all theese for easy access, you get the point the more options the better!
6. the names of stuff should pop up over the neocom when holding your mouse on them
So far i Love the new neocom i'll start using it at once when it comes to Tranquility keep up the good work CCP and thanx! ♥♥♥
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.28 16:12:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 28/12/2010 16:12:12
If you get the chance to work on chats as well, fleetchats in fact - Every fleet out there would benefit greatly from being able to give chosen fleetmembers different colour-texts, sizes and even have their last sentences always stay at the bottom of the fleetchat if desired.
Something like this would reduce frustration and make coordinating things alot easier so player can focus on the good things in eve ;)
-
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.12.29 04:23:00 -
[72]
Is it just me or does the new NEOCOM stay on the screen even if you do a CTRL-F9 ?
Please tell me this is either a mistake by me, or that CCP are NOT going to have the NEOCOM on the screen the whole time and they just haven't developed it to that point yet?
AK
EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials
Vid - New Tricks |
Opertone
Caldari
World - of - Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.29 20:06:00 -
[73]
The new Neo comm is amazing
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Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.29 20:09:00 -
[74]
WORKAROUND: Right-Click on NEOCOM and turn ON "Auto-Hide" - just make sure you click on the ribbon itself, not on an icon ;-)
Originally by: AlleyKat
Is it just me or does the new NEOCOM stay on the screen even if you do a CTRL-F9 ?
Please tell me this is either a mistake by me, or that CCP are NOT going to have the NEOCOM on the screen the whole time and they just haven't developed it to that point yet?
AK
___________________________________
BECKS
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Pharos Pharos
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Posted - 2010.12.29 21:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
It's just.. I mean.. every 5th post did ask for a vertical neocom, but nothing has been said from your side.
While I'm all in favor of bittervetting and better CCP communication, given that the blog itself states that "We already have plenty of ideas for iterations beyond the BETA, such as allowing alignment to any side of the screen" - and that it's the holiday season, I think it's rather understandable that they haven't responded to this point.
All that aside, more dev posts in general is rather nice.
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Opertone
Caldari
World - of - Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.30 00:31:00 -
[76]
Arghhh! You remove da blinky from my eyes! My eyes hurts. No blinky. You hear?
(Flashing animation is awful, please remove it)
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d3vo
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Posted - 2010.12.30 01:46:00 -
[77]
The only thing I like about the new neocom is the "currently training" bar and how it directly opens the training queue...and that's it.
Tbh, it seems to be a mere replication of the new Windows 7 taskbar. I guess making it more "customizable" is nice...but I couldn't careless. Also putting the neocom on the bottom takes away from my vertical space which unfortunately I don't have much of since my laptop screen is more horizontal than vertical. 
nom nom nom |
Alexia Diana
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Posted - 2010.12.30 11:29:00 -
[78]
For the people that are complaining about the new Neocom, but saw them saying the same thing with various occasions, I can't resist and say: "adapt or die" :)
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Midnight Hope
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:10:00 -
[79]
As has been pointed out, there's too much "action" going on in the toolbar now. Please get rid of the blinking, highlighting, etc. It draws attention away from the really important stuff (that dude at the gate red boxing you!). Maybe you can highlight the icon itself (just the picture and not the whole box) in a different shade just for the chat window.
Also, the icons are indeed looking a bit dated by now. Since you are here you might as well redesign them (personally I always had trouble with the little green pretzel being used for the fitting window).
Criticism aside, nice job CCP!
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Freyja Asynjur
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:12:00 -
[80]
The new neocom looks promising, but we need options to customize it :
- vertical, horizontal ( and up, down, left, right ).
- it's too big for me, I wished to be able to reduce its height ( width if vertical ).
- the blinking of icons is very annoying, whereas it doesn't disturb me the slightest on the actual neocom. We should be able to choose a behavior ( blink, doesn't blink, intensity of the blinking ?)
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Hawk TT
WORKAROUND: Right-Click on NEOCOM and turn ON "Auto-Hide" - just make sure you click on the ribbon itself, not on an icon ;-)
Originally by: AlleyKat
Is it just me or does the new NEOCOM stay on the screen even if you do a CTRL-F9 ?
Please tell me this is either a mistake by me, or that CCP are NOT going to have the NEOCOM on the screen the whole time and they just haven't developed it to that point yet?
AK
My point is - it doesn't disappear, even with autohide, there is still 1-2 pixels visible...is this a development problem, or is this working as intended?
AK
EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials
Vid - New Tricks |
Nosferatu Zodd
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:42:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
In the case of the UI, many would agree that it's long required an overhaul. The trouble was that it was a house of cards; code was written on top of older code stretching back to the original sins of EVE's development. As such, adding new functionality into that codebase simply makes your job harder.
I can understand that the code needs an overhaul, but you don't have to optimize the layout.
Nobody complains about it and those who do would probably change everything else first.
Like Siigari Kitawa said, you can compare it to the start menu of WinXP. I use Win7 and have spent hours to try to configure it like the magnificent, less-user-friendly, less flashy, less wizardy, less many more "improvements", simple winXP menu, which is simply perfect because it's simple and fast.
The quality of the menu should be measured by the amount of clicks needed to get to a panel (less is better), the amount of possible ways to get to a panel (less is better), the disturbance created by alerts (less is better), amount of information and functions that one button leads to (more is better). Every improvement should be optional.
The space the current menu-bar takes in is almost zero and it's located so that you NEVER click it when you don't want to.
I would like to see more improvements to the windows and right-click menu's.
-Add an option to hide the search function, I never use it, an option to hide the icon on top left of the panels, it takes too much room. I would prefer only the tab name to show on any hangar-panel. Right-click to configure to add/remove the search function, add/remove panel icon and show items as icons/details/list.
- Make all right-click menu's customizable, there are several functions that I almost never use like "invert selection", "sort by name reversed", etc. Also every one has functions he uses more than others, so the order of the menu-items should also be customizable.
- Fix the windows/panels jumping around when a new one is opened even when they're pinned.
- Make panels available for the station hangars, but I guess this is more something for "features and ideas" or "assembly hall".
I'm playing EVE in fixed window mode because I'm playing on two accounts, use ventrilo, have 5 Firefox windows open each with several tabs and probably a few other progs. It makes it easy to switch between the progs. Now with the new EVE menu sitting right above all the windows taskbar I have to be very careful not to click on one of the program buttons in the taskbar. What's even more problematic is that when my mouse hovers over one of the program buttons the preview pops up and the button in EVE that I wanted to click lies under it. So if you really want to go on with the new menu, definitely make an option to place the menubar where you want it (top/left/bottom/right/autohide)
Re-sizeable is a good option, I use it at minimum size which is about the same size as the current menu. Some might want it bigger.
"lock height" should be "lock menu" and thus also prevent menu items from being moved around.
The menu-buttons ships/items/calendar should be as far as possible from exit station, especially the first two. You don't want to exit the station in an Iteron V when you want to jump into a T2 cruiser to attack some people who're waiting outside the station. "More than once upon a time in EVE", "For a few pixels more" it could cost you "a fistfull of isk". Or pressing cancel exit station every five minutes on New Year's EVE when you've had a bit too much champagne, "drink and EVE" is not against the EULA I hope?.
Put that button as far away as possible from the others, even put a red lit on it that has "caution" hot stamped on it like on the flight-stick of an F15 Eagle.
______________________________________________
[Detection of ships ... a different concept] |
Okie Wren
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:47:00 -
[83]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
What CCP Atropos said.
So what you're saying is.. you have to rebuild the UI bit by bit?
I'm fine with that, just don't delete boot.ini again.
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Miyau
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Posted - 2010.12.30 18:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Freyja Asynjur
- it's too big for me, I wished to be able to reduce its height ( width if vertical ).
Just drag the top of it down.
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Project 69
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Posted - 2010.12.30 18:31:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Project 69 on 30/12/2010 18:31:46
I actually like it.
but maybe something more
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1440245
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Freyja Asynjur
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:57:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Miyau
Originally by: Freyja Asynjur
- it's too big for me, I wished to be able to reduce its height ( width if vertical ).
Just drag the top of it down.
OMG ! 
/me hides
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StJamesofSorrow
Amarr
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.31 02:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Freyja Asynjur
Originally by: Miyau
Originally by: Freyja Asynjur
- it's too big for me, I wished to be able to reduce its height ( width if vertical ).
Just drag the top of it down.
OMG !
/me hides
Even dragged down, it's still too big when docked to the bottom of the screen, auto-hide works, but is a pain.
The vertical placement is still much better as this has the least interference with the HUD and chat/fleet/drone windows.
This has to have the option of being able to select which edge to dock against. At least provide the vertical option.
I'd rather the time been spent on the star and solar system maps. Would love to have them as mini re-sizable windows and was hoping for this since the updated fitting and ship view windows were released.
Overall, the new Neocom is an improvement ( assuming it can be docked to the left screen edge in the future), but it's still too obtrusive as it stands, it doesn't need heaps of fancy buttons and options, the menu it launches can contain all that info.
Personally I reckon it could be reduced to two buttons, bottom left "launch from station" and top right open Neocom menu.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.01.01 21:06:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Nosferatu Zodd
I can understand that the code needs an overhaul, but you don't have to optimize the layout.
Nobody complains about it and those who do would probably change everything else first.
Like Siigari Kitawa said, you can compare it to the start menu of WinXP. I use Win7 and have spent hours to try to configure it like the magnificent, less-user-friendly, less flashy, less wizardy, less many more "improvements", simple winXP menu, which is simply perfect because it's simple and fast.
The quality of the menu should be measured by the amount of clicks needed to get to a panel (less is better), the amount of possible ways to get to a panel (less is better), the disturbance created by alerts (less is better), amount of information and functions that one button leads to (more is better). Every improvement should be optional.
Like Siigari Kitawa you are clueless about the functionality of the new neocom. The part you are worried about works exactly the same as the old neocom - one click is all it takes to get to a panel.
The main new functionality is customizability. This is something that needs to be expanded on and added to the rest of EVE ui elements.
...
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jade ranger
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Posted - 2011.01.01 22:06:00 -
[89]
I do wish to complain about how much more we can customize the UI now.
oh wait, it only takes one click to get to whatever I need, and I can completely ingore and eve REMOVE buttons I used to never use.
Awesome.
Also when small, it's half the size it is on TQ, even with the widescreen format of my monitor i have MORE screen space than before. Think about it.
it's 30% longer, but it's about 50% of the height.
thus I have MORE screen space. there are less pixels taking up my screen. and autohide is brilliant. I don't see how it looking like windows UI has anything to do with anything. the window UI is great because you can forget it's there while using your computer. pure win.
and they already said it will be dock able, seriously people.
-mothermoon
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Miyau
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Posted - 2011.01.01 22:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Q Aa
We should be able to have bookmarks on the neocom separate aswell as chat windows, notes, playlists for the jukebox, corporation tabs, Planets with the view in planet mode option all theese for easy access, you get the point the more options the better!
Cool ideas!
Can we also get a button (or a shortcut key) to open the solar system view? (not the map button which is overloaded with star map and solar system) |
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44000
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Posted - 2011.01.02 01:05:00 -
[91]
just a few things,
obviously verticality or even top might be great,
i would like to see spacers to be put in between icons so you can organise/separate related items such as contracts and wallet together ect.
also id like to see specific bookmarks to be put in there, i open and close jump bridge maps so frequently id love t just have on button to press for them.
It would lso be nice to have separate tabs available down there so i can have my plannets industrial tab and jobs openable separatly. (again with the one click)
i dont like the way you have to click to open up sub menues, its frustrating.
I would love to seethe icons to be made even smaller so i can fit more into it, ie. my regular 1-click opperations. however, having a larger, prettier 'start' menu.
I HATE the little black 'help' pop ups that cover what im trying to read. If i scrol over the claculator, which clearly says 'calculator'. i dont need another smaller black box to pop up over it saying 'calculator' How do i turn this off!
when the neocom hides (which i love) it would be nice for menues and/or guns to move down with it.
oh, and the flashing is annoying. please let me kill it, or maybe have the highlights adjustable so they can be subtle, like the black surrounds of the buttons on the right when in station. cheers
thats all for now, but its looking good
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2011.01.02 10:41:00 -
[92]
Like:
minimizing window into nepcom
Dislike:
Highlighting is waaay too strong, makes icons hard to see even, esp fitting one.
It should be *IN FRONT OF ALL WINDOWS*. Took me ages to find my items and ships and even undock because the station services window covered them. Duh!
Want:
Ability to attach it to any edge - pretty basic option really
Text only option and super thin option
---------------------------------
Internet Submarines is Serious Business
---------------------------------
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.01.02 14:57:00 -
[93]
While at it: add an option to move the view-point center location up-and-down (as addition to the left-right currently implemented). Helps with what-ever sized horizontal Neocom bar.
--
"Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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Your Client
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Posted - 2011.01.04 21:32:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Your Client on 04/01/2011 21:40:36
1. When locking the neocom (r-click -> lock), the icons should lock in place and be unremovable.
2. Auto-hide didn't unhide for me.
3. Maybe when we make a groups tabs we can have a few icons to choose from to differentiate from multiple groups.. by either using existing icons and/or create a set of new icons to choose upon.
4. Might be cool to be able to move the neocom to the top.
edit:
5. A direct link to the "Add Bookmark" button. When I add it to my neocom, and click it, I can easily make an in-space bookmark with a single click of the button. Well, one less click. People and places window gets all up in my business just to make simple bm.
Otherwise I like. |
Grendel Wulfsbane
Caldari
Underground-Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.05 04:35:00 -
[95]
I want vertical. Other than that, pretty cool, but I don't want to spend the time necessary to re-re-relearn the eve interface from ground 0 again.
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Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.05 12:54:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 05/01/2011 12:59:53
To be compeletly blunt. Don't like it.
I want the original vertical-left Neocom, with original layout. I don't want a bottom screen thing.
At the VERY least have an option for the original one.
I'm actually really worried you're forcing on us something like this. Sorta like the cap-jump animations. When are you going to fix those? Or are we still going to be stuck with that pathetic blip?
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Turay
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.07 12:55:00 -
[97]
I don't like it. I have ever read the text to find buttons like assets or ship etc. I am not familiar with the icons and don#t like them.
Other more important issues are still crap:
- Window position locking does not work. The pin button is a joke, the windows aren't interested in this button. I want hardlocked windows like in other MMPORGs. With many accoutns and chars I want to have full control of size and position of windows, I want identical look and feel on every char.
- The bookmark handling is outdated. I want something like ship fitting where I can store my bookmarks and corp bookmarks. They also should be linkable like the ship fittings.
- A nice feature would be the ability to set opacitiy of windows.
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Rhealee
Darkness Of Absolution
E C L I P S E
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Posted - 2011.01.07 13:10:00 -
[98]
been working with new neocom and new buttons are sweet
my only concerns is that it doesnt seem to wanna stay in the order i like them. for instance i like it having my wallet market and assets in that order all next to each other.
seems when i log in it scrambles them back to default
second concern is the blinking i keep the buttons about half inch tall on the bottom and when the wallet blinks i go in turn all blink stuff off and its fin. but for the mail or chat its extremely annoying blinky all time.
other than that its pretty sweet and im enjoying it
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.01.08 17:27:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Turay
I don't like it. I have ever read the text to find buttons like assets or ship etc. I am not familiar with the icons and don#t like them.
There are new icons? How do you get new icons? All I see is the same old monopoly icons.
...
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NacNudcs
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:54:00 -
[100]
I'll be honest that I didn't read the entire thread in detail so I may miss something things that were already mentioned.
I know this has been mentioned but I agree: The ability to put the new bar on different sides of the screen.
Things that I haven't noticed mentioned:
With the bar stuck at the bottom the undock is locked on the right side of the screen, opposite where it used to be. For myself this was annoying after being used to it being on the other side of the screen. Not critical or anything just something I found annoying.
The change to icon's only regardless of size on actual bar. It's a little thing but I keep my old neocom full size most times so that the names of the icons display. With the new neocom there is no way to display the text names of the icons regardless of the size of the bar, at least that I've found. This could be even more hampering for a new player. I know you can hover your mouse over it but I'm referring to the text name being always displayed on the button, say along the bottom.
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D'Kelle
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:30:00 -
[101]
Please do not force the neocom to the base line, the last thing most of us need is either an options popup appear, over important shipside game play features resulting from accidental mouse action or the irritating "now you see me", "now you dont" hide feature. Most players are going to have wide screens, please ensure the option to place the dam neocom out of the way on left,right top, and bottom as suits an individual player's needs/wants Personally, 90% of the time during game play I am glad it is out of the way on the left of my screen with as few distractions as possible.
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Morgenholt Blue
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Posted - 2011.01.10 10:35:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Morgenholt Blue on 10/01/2011 10:35:56
Edited by: Morgenholt Blue on 10/01/2011 10:35:47
Not sure if this is really the right thread or if it should go in the character creator one but the portrait on the new neocomm has really bad aliasing.. like its the client rendered portrait but its for the character that has had a server render.. I also noticed in the characters folder the 64 x 64 and 32 x 32 image doesn't seem to be there so maybe its just using the wrong image size or something?
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Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2011.01.10 16:57:00 -
[103]
Still no Vertical Option - SUCKS
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.01.15 17:20:00 -
[104]
So, is this thing not going to be part of Incursion 1.1? Why was it removed from SISI?
...
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Einar Matveinen
Gallente
The Ratu Tree
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Posted - 2011.01.15 18:51:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Razin
So, is this thing not going to be part of Incursion 1.1? Why was it removed from SISI?
Yes, is new NeoComm going to be included in Incursion 1.1.0 next Tuesday?.
It's a great improvement over old NeoComm.
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PTang
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:07:00 -
[106]
what happen to the great improvement?
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Cailais
Amarr
Ukomi Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.23 13:56:00 -
[107]
Originally by: PTang
what happen to the great improvement?
It been binned after just 4 pages and maybe two dozen players feedback.
Epic Fail CCP, Epic Fail.
C.
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krickettt
Golden Orb Technology inc
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Posted - 2011.01.23 20:36:00 -
[108]
It's too bad guys, we just got :CCP:'d
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