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Basileus
   |
Posted - 2005.01.29 07:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Basileus on 30/01/2005 14:47:12
Edited by: Basileus on 30/01/2005 14:15:46
Edited by: Basileus on 30/01/2005 13:47:46
Edited by: Basileus on 29/01/2005 16:04:30
Can instajumps be used in combination with the autopilot? Or do you have to manually warp to each insta on you way? Is there a tutorial somewhere? Thanks for the help.
Edit: posted tutorial I wrote here. Suggestions, tips and tricks welcome!
Bookmarks & Instajumps
 Background
Travelling long distances is boring. Especially if you pilot a sloooow hauler over many jumps. When you warp using the autopilot you end up 15 km away from a gate, and have to fly this stretch before you jump. A clever use of the bookmark system will provide some help. An instajump bookmark is a point in space, from which it is possible to jump a gate immediately upon arrival. Instajumps (short for instantaneous jump) are not illegal; they are not an exploit. They do tend to tick off gate campers. Which is understandable, because who wouldnÆt be annoyed waiting at a gate for hours and hours and hours only to have you preciousss fisssh disappear before your very eyes?
The Tutorial
Suppose you have route you use a lot: from your station in system A to system B to C to D., and you want to make instajumps for this journey. Let G(A,B) now be the gate from system A to system B. ItÆs going to take some time setting up the instajump bookmarks, but the investment for longer routes is well worth it. Take a fast ship, e.g. a shuttle. I chose a frigate, which I fitted with a microwarpdrive. Next you warp from your station to the G(A,B). Now fly past the gate, and bookmark a location 15 km away from the gate, taking care that point A, the gate and your bookmark are lined up.
Station---G(A,B)---15 km<-your bookmark here
Remember that you might have to fly back as well, so set up a return bookmark as well. For this you would line up as follows:
your bookmark here->15 km---G(A,B)---G(B,C)
Now repeat for all gates in your journey. You end up with something like this:
station ---Y-15km-G(A,B)-15km-X---Y-15km-G(B,C)-15km-X---Y-15km-G(C,D)-15km-X
Where the X bookmarks you would use on your way over and the Y bookmarks on your way back.
Some hints
ÀLocking the gate around which you want to place bookmarks will give you an aid for lining up.
ÀSlow down your speed when getting close to the 15 km mark, so you donÆt overshoot.
ÀInstajump bookmarks are also for sale; check out the Eve forums. They are quite pricey though, as people have to invest some time in making them.
ÀThe time youÆll save on a 20 jump journey (thatÆs 10 jumps to your destination and then back again) using a hauler with a max speed of 150 m/s is about half an hour.
ÀOrganising the instajump bookmarks by constellation is a good idea, as you quickly lose track.
ÀWhen travelling using instajumps, set the AP nonetheless; this will give you an easy reminder as to which instajump to use next.
ÀNotation of bookmarks I found easiest as follows (system you came from) -> (system you are in) -> (system you are going to).
À(thanks Nuala Reece!) one tip for using your AP with BM's. If you activate your AP while you're underway your ship will automatically make the jump once it's in range of the gate (pretty much as soon as you arrive as long as you've got the BM placed properly. Just remember to deactivate it straight away if you're planning on using another insta on the other side, otherwise you'll carry on as normal and exit warp at the standard 15km or whatever at the next one.
À(thanks Droidster!) For those who are interested in making bookmarks I would point out that the 15 km overrange that the author mentions above only works for larger gates, will never put you on the center of the gate and will always land you behind the gate (facing away from it) which is bad because you have to turn around to see it. The formula for the distance (in meters) is: 15000 - GateSize/2. So if the gate is one of the small ones, 4900m in size, you must set the bookmark 12550 meters to land in the center of the gate. I find that it is useful to land in front of the gate to make it easy to click on (if you are not using AP). To do this subtract 1500 from the above number. So in the small gate example, using the distance 11000 meters will land you directly in front of the gate (and within its radius). You can see the gate size in the overview.
Good luck!
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Khiijan Araal
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Posted - 2005.01.29 08:11:00 -
[2]
Instajumps are illegal. You will be suspended or possibly banned from Eve if you are caught using them. The CCP forum is not the place to ask this kinda thing.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.01.29 08:18:00 -
[3]
They are not illegal, and you wont get bsnned. But a lot of players consider them an exploit even tho they probably use them themselves. Best bet is ask corp mates to show you.
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Basileus
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Posted - 2005.01.29 08:31:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Seth Killbain
...But a lot of players consider them an exploit...
w0ot?!?! 
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2005.01.29 08:49:00 -
[5]
You have to manually warp to each insta, but you can use AP to speed up jumping at the other end.
----------------------------------
"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
Braaage
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Posted - 2005.01.29 09:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Khiijan Araal
Instajumps are illegal. You will be suspended or possibly banned from Eve if you are caught using them. The CCP forum is not the place to ask this kinda thing.
Yeh riiiiight 
If they were illegal/ an exploit don't yah think they wud have been removed by now?
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Basileus
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Posted - 2005.01.29 09:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Braaage
Originally by: Khiijan Araal
Instajumps are illegal. You will be suspended or possibly banned from Eve if you are caught using them. The CCP forum is not the place to ask this kinda thing.
Yeh riiiiight
If they were illegal/ an exploit don't yah think they wud have been removed by now?
He's probably selling instas for a lot of cash, and does not like competition 
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Braaage
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Posted - 2005.01.29 10:37:00 -
[8]
Nah most likely a gate camper fed up of everyone warping straight to the gates.... perhaps he never heard of mobile warp disrupters
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Shocky
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Posted - 2005.01.29 11:33:00 -
[9]
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.01.29 11:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
note: noob pirates/gatecampers
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Drunken Claptrap
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Posted - 2005.01.29 12:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ArcticFox
You have to manually warp to each insta, but you can use AP to speed up jumping at the other end.
If your instas are set up correctly, you jump straight away!
Draft Beer Not People |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.01.29 12:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Avon on 29/01/2005 12:32:24
I use instajumps sometimes.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps have saved my life.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps have saved my enemies.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps make parts of my gameplay much more profitable.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps make travel faster.
I wish instajumps were gone.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2005.01.29 12:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 29/01/2005 12:32:24
I use instajumps sometimes.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps have saved my life.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps have saved my enemies.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps make parts of my gameplay much more profitable.
I wish instajumps were gone.
Instajumps make travel faster.
I wish instajumps were gone.
soo true 
sure... I use them myself but there is no way that anyone out there hates them more than me  ...
so ya, I so wish instantjumps were gone 
Greetings Grim |
Lig Lira
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Posted - 2005.01.29 12:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Khiijan Araal
Instajumps are illegal. You will be suspended or possibly banned from Eve if you are caught using them. The CCP forum is not the place to ask this kinda thing.
LOL 
Which PA character are you?
That's no flying saucer, that's my ass! |
Basileus
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Posted - 2005.01.29 12:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Basileus on 29/01/2005 12:51:36
Originally by: Drunken Claptrap
Originally by: ArcticFox
You have to manually warp to each insta, but you can use AP to speed up jumping at the other end.
If your instas are set up correctly, you jump straight away!
If you land on top of a gate, you have to manually jump it, right? And if you use the AP to a bookmark in a system, it will disable the AP when the system the bookmark is in is reached, correct? In other words, can you use bookmarks and complete your route AFK?
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Mad Bomber
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Posted - 2005.01.29 13:06:00 -
[16]
NO.
Instas already make traveling easier, we dont need them to be used AFK aswell.
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Akroma Nightmare
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Posted - 2005.01.29 13:27:00 -
[17]
how about a new skill, that lets you jump closer to objects?
let's say 2km reduction per lvl. (so you can jump to 5km to everything)
of course, this skill must have enourmous requirements and has to be at least a rank 12 or up, to scare a lot of people to even train it to lvl4.
but that would be the alternative for the really lazy travellers, who wanna go faster without sitting in front of the pc :)
another option: how about making an option "autopilot uses mwd/ab or anything similar"
i know, this ideas will never be implemented, but i'm one of those lazy guys mentioned before :)
thanks to god i don't have to travel a lot :D
________________________________________
Your Nightmare is hunting you! Be aware of Destruction! |
Basileus
|
Posted - 2005.01.29 14:34:00 -
[18]
As I saw no link to a tutorial posted, I wrote one myself. Suggestions, tips and tricks welcome!
Bookmarks & Instajumps
Background
Travelling long distances is boring. Especially if you pilot a sloooow hauler over many jumps. When you warp using the autopilot you end up 15 km away from a gate, and have to fly this stretch before you jump. A clever use of the bookmark system will provide some help. An instajump bookmark is a point in space, from which it is possible to jump a gate immediately upon arrival. Instajumps (short for instantaneous jump) are not illegal; they are not an exploit. They do tend to tick off gate campers. Which is understandable, because who wouldnÆt be annoyed waiting at a gate for hours and hours and hours only to have you preciousss fisssh disappear before your very eyes?
The Tutorial
Suppose you have route you use a lot: from your station in system A to system B to C to D., and you want to make instajumps for this journey. Let G(A,B) now be the gate from system A to system B. ItÆs going to take some time setting up the instajump bookmarks, but the investment for longer routes is well worth it. Take a fast ship, e.g. a shuttle. I chose a frigate, which I fitted with a microwarpdrive. Next you warp from your station to the G(A,B). Now fly past the gate, and bookmark a location 15 km away from the gate, taking care that point A, the gate and your bookmark are lined up.
Station---G(A,B)---15 km<-your bookmark here
Remember that you might have to fly back as well, so set up a return bookmark as well. For this you would line up as follows:
your bookmark here->15 km---G(A,B)---G(B,C)
Now repeat for all gates in your journey. You end up with something like this:
station ---Y-15km-G(A,B)-15km-X---Y-15km-G(B,C)-15km-X---Y-15km-G(C,D)-15km-X
Where the X bookmarks you would use on your way over and the Y bookmarks on your way back.
Some hints
ÀLocking the gate around which you want to place bookmarks will give you an aid for lining up.
ÀSlow down your speed when getting close to the 15 km mark, so you donÆt overshoot.
ÀInstajump bookmarks are also for sale; check out the Eve forums. They are quite pricey though, as people have to invest some time in making them.
ÀThe time youÆll save on a 20 jump journey (thatÆs 10 jumps to your destination and then back again) using a hauler with a max speed of 150 m/s is about half an hour.
ÀOrganising the instajump bookmarks by constellation is a good idea, as you quickly lose track.
ÀWhen travelling using instajumps, set the AP nonetheless; this will give you an easy reminder as to which instajump to use next.
ÀNotation of bookmarks I found easiest as follows (system you came from) -> (system you are in) -> (system you are going to).
Good luck!
|
Cassendra
|
Posted - 2005.01.29 15:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
Erm... No. They complain because an indy or BS should not travel virtually as fast as a frig...
Instajumps are exploits.
Director, Soldiers of Anarchy
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Akroma Nightmare
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Posted - 2005.01.29 15:12:00 -
[20]
an indy with bms needs almost twice the time than an inty or a frig without bms.
faster warp speed, just a few secs until in warp and just a bunch of secs to the gate with a mwd.
________________________________________
Your Nightmare is hunting you! Be aware of Destruction! |
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.01.29 15:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cassendra
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
Erm... No. They complain because an indy or BS should not travel virtually as fast as a frig...
Instajumps are exploits.
No they dont, Frigs enter warp way faster, reach the gate way faster and can be in the other system by the time Bs and Indys reach the actuall gate. 
Instajumps arent exploits. Intas are t4h omg wassabeh l33tz!
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Akroma Nightmare
|
Posted - 2005.01.29 15:20:00 -
[22]
joshua i was faster than you [;)]
(sorry for the off topic spam, but it had to be )
________________________________________
Your Nightmare is hunting you! Be aware of Destruction! |
Sorja
|
Posted - 2005.01.29 15:23:00 -
[23]
You can still catch people at the other side of the gate, so instas are at best an edge over gatecampers.
If CCP would disable bookmarking around 3000 m of a gate and allow for jump to 3, 15, 60, 120 km, maybe we would have a more interesting game, but since people 'gank' which means certain death when you travel long distances every day like we do in 0.0, the game would probably die because it would become forced grouping like EQ for anything else than frigates, which are already the majority of ships since people want to escape more than to fight.
Tech II haulers are part of the solution. Increased HPs could help too. More variety in combat styles (while unlikely seeing the race to power CCP has initiated which renders whole classes of ships obsolete) would help too.
And, let's be honest, how do you want to fight if not at gates ?
Player owned stations ? POS' ?
Maybe, but not sure.
|
Cassendra
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Posted - 2005.01.29 21:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Cassendra
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
Erm... No. They complain because an indy or BS should not travel virtually as fast as a frig...
Instajumps are exploits.
No they dont, Frigs enter warp way faster, reach the gate way faster and can be in the other system by the time Bs and Indys reach the actuall gate.
Instajumps arent exploits. Intas are t4h omg wassabeh l33tz!
erm... you have to travel 20 jumps..CCP intended for you to jump in 15k from any gate...ehh...you do not think there is a problem with instas?? Exploiter!!!
Director, Soldiers of Anarchy
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.01.29 22:19:00 -
[25]
Instasploitmarks are not game exploits. However they are exploitive of the game mechanics because they cause an effect not intended by the developers.
I absolutely hate insta-jumps but I use them because if I don't use them I'm at a distinct disadvantage to people who do use them. As an example, I once chased down a MWD fitted Blackbird, in my Non-MWD fitted Raven, over 6 jumps, and caught and killed him because he wasn't using insta's.
If there was one thing I could zap from the game, apart from alts, it would be instasploits.
Infinity Ziona
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.29 22:38:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Siddy on 29/01/2005 22:39:06
DigitalCommunist and viceroy (and i ) made wonderful explenation how instajumps hurt EVE and smart people - making game less challening and boring
Ruining regional markets allong with Higways by cutting off logistik times
Smart ppls are lowwerd to same level with not so smart: Communism of frikking IQ
Making Fast ship kinda pointtle as BS can go same speed as intty gate to gate... paired with uber WCS you got unstoppable ship 
Make peoples who shuld not be able to survive in 0.0 -survive, agen, shafting smart ppls
-------------------------------------------
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PLAGUE DEAMON
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Posted - 2005.01.30 03:25:00 -
[27]
HEH wait till dreadnoughts, Titans, carriers and the new industrials are out they use jumpdrives. apparently some of these are commming out this year. Read the dev blogs for info.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2005.01.30 09:01:00 -
[28]
Instajumps and highway gates increase travel time, they don't decrease it.
Here is why. I live in the east of the galaxy. I want some module for a decent price? I have to go all the way to the central systems to buy it since thats where all the sellers are. Why are all the sellers there? Because most buyers go there because of the highways and instajumps. Its a vicious circle. Everyone buys in the central system because everyone sells there. And why is that? Because travel is so easy and fast. So now I have to do 30 jumps to buy something or to sell something.
Without instajumps and highway systems I will have a regional market. It will be smaller, it won't have everything but I will only have to do 3 jumps to buy a similar module that might be 1% worse. But since its a more regional market I only compete with other locals in stead of the whole galaxy on having the uber ship. So that 1% worse wont matter as much.
Now I spend 80% less time on travelling although I have no instajumps or highway systems simply because there is trade all around in stead of only in the center.
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Basileus
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Posted - 2005.01.30 09:07:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Basileus on 30/01/2005 09:08:44
Originally by: Cassendra
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Cassendra
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
Erm... No. They complain because an indy or BS should not travel virtually as fast as a frig...
Instajumps are exploits.
No they dont, Frigs enter warp way faster, reach the gate way faster and can be in the other system by the time Bs and Indys reach the actuall gate.
Instajumps arent exploits. Intas are t4h omg wassabeh l33tz!
erm... you have to travel 20 jumps..CCP intended for you to jump in 15k from any gate...ehh...you do not think there is a problem with instas?? Exploiter!!!
And I'm sure gate camping & taking advantage of the lag it causes is perfectly ok isn't it? Nowt wrong with instas young lady!
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.30 10:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cassendra
Originally by: Shocky
Only players who complain about instas are gate campers, mainly pirates and nobody should pay any attention to anything they say.
Erm... No. They complain because an indy or BS should not travel virtually as fast as a frig...
Instajumps are exploits.
that is not a valid argument
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
MinorFreak
|
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cassendra
erm... you have to travel 20 jumps..CCP intended for you to jump in 15k from any gate...ehh...you do not think there is a problem with instas?? Exploiter!!!
that also is an illogical statement. You're omniscience is only awe-inspiring to yourself. The rest of us think you're a boring troll. get educated.
You're speculating and claiming it to be fact. Your use of the word "exploit" is conjecture and your opinion is not official. You simply look like a damn fool.
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Seth Killbain
|
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:49:00 -
[32]
Instas are fine and here is why i think they are.
If im going into an area i have never been before i have to use standard routes like everyone else. If i take the time to map out instas ( get to know the area ) then i have found shortcuts through the system.
Why shouldnt someone who knows the area be able to navigate it faster then people who do not, just like RL in that way.
The only people who can blow past gate campers are people experianced in that system, so why shouldnt they have a better chance of surviving?
Battleships are not as fast as interceptors using insta jumps, why dont people put up a proper blockade, and block all the gates, set up bubbles, warp disrupters etc? If you cant, dont have resources, or are just afraid of getting caught up yourself when a superior fleet moves your way, then you shouldnt be able to catch people who are "native" to the system, thats balance in itself, you cant have it all your own way, and remember the cookie crumbles the same for both sides.
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Darkoth
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Posted - 2005.01.30 10:51:00 -
[33]
Yeah, well it's boring to watch your ship fly for 3 minutes. It's a game and the worst part about this game is sitting there waiting for your ship to get somewhere because you had to warp within 15 km. The reason why ccp leaves it in is because the travel time is the biggest complaint of new players.
Instead of complaining about it, why don't you think of a solution that would make everyone happy. Just taking it out because it messes up gate campers is not going to fly over. You need a more constructive idea than just promoting it for your own personal gain.
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2005.01.30 11:12:00 -
[34]
Yes I use instas a lot myself
Yes they haved saved my ass a lot of times
Yes I wish they were gone
I have no faith that this will happen however because
"The routes to and from Empire space were pre-programmed fixtures in the personalized navigation system of every ship he traveled in, with carefully plotted jumps that put him directly on top of the stargates that he needed to travel between systems."
That from Ruthless Chapter 5.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Infinity Ziona
|
Posted - 2005.01.30 11:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MinorFreak
that is not a valid argument
Its a perfectly valid argument. What are you talking about?
The intention of the developers was to have ships travel a certain distance to a gate after leaving warp. Initially it was 7.5k, but was later adjusted to 12.5k. I believe this change was made because the 7.5k distance was considered insufficient to lock down a ship (due to the 'invulnerability coding' that was being used at that time).
When you use insta-jumps you are bypassing the intended mechanics of the game (the wish of the developers to have you travel that distance). Simply because the developers choose at this time not to penalise people for doing this doesn't change the fact that it is indeed exploitive.
Originally by: Seth KillBain
Instas are fine and here is why i think they are.
If im going into an area i have never been before i have to use standard routes like everyone else. If i take the time to map out instas ( get to know the area ) then i have found shortcuts through the system.
*snip*
Battleships are not as fast as interceptors using insta jumps, why dont people put up a proper blockade, and block all the gates, set up bubbles, warp disrupters etc?
Thats fine Seth, except they made insta-jumps able to be copied. A lot of time in established corporations, as soon as you join you can obtain a copy of all the insta-jumps throughout their area of operation. Zero work.
An insta-jumping battleship is not as fast but its close to a non-insta using inty while traveling. It takes around 10 seconds to enter warp, and you jump instantly at the gate.
When a battleship warps to 0 meteres from a gate, thats equivalent to a speed of 12.5kms which is 3 times faster then an interceptor roughly.
Infinity Ziona
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Nuala Reece
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Posted - 2005.01.30 13:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thats fine Seth, except they made insta-jumps able to be copied. A lot of time in established corporations, as soon as you join you can obtain a copy of all the insta-jumps throughout their area of operation. Zero work.
Hmm, lots of established corps give free ships and modules to their new members. No work. Should that be stopped too?
I'd like to know what you see as the difference between an 'exploit' and something that's 'exploitive'. They seem pretty similar things to me. What you said earlier Originally by: Infinity Ziona
I absolutely hate insta-jumps but I use them because if I don't use them I'm at a distinct disadvantage to people who do use them.
reminded me of a conversation I had once with a guy who'd just lost his license for speeding - he told me he'd been forced to speed because the car he was overtaking was travelling at the speed limit. What you've essentially argued is that, although you think instajumps are exploits, you're being forced to exploit the game mechanics yourself by other people. Your arguments would carry a lot more weight if you stood by your principles and avoided something you see as exploiting the game mechanics.
Anyway - just to move away from the arguing and back to the point of the thread - one tip for using your AP with BM's. If you activate your AP while you're underway your ship will automatically make the jump once it's in range of the gate (pretty much as soon as you arrive as long as you've got the BM placed properly. Just remember to deactivate it straight away if you're planning on using another insta on the other side, otherwise you'll carry on as normal and exit warp at the standard 15km or whatever at the next one.
Be Free
Freelancing Corp |
Basileus
|
Posted - 2005.01.30 13:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nuala Reece
Anyway - just to move away from the arguing and back to the point of the thread - one tip for using your AP with BM's. If you activate your AP while you're underway your ship will automatically make the jump once it's in range of the gate (pretty much as soon as you arrive as long as you've got the BM placed properly. Just remember to deactivate it straight away if you're planning on using another insta on the other side, otherwise you'll carry on as normal and exit warp at the standard 15km or whatever at the next one.
That is a very useful tip Nuala, thanks! I have incorporated it into the tutorial.
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Droidster
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Posted - 2005.01.30 14:05:00 -
[38]
For those who are interested in making bookmarks I would point out that the 15 km overrange that the author mentions above only works for larger gates, will never put you on the center of the gate and will always land you behind the gate (facing away from it) which is bad because you have to turn around to see it.
The formula for the distance (in meters) is:
15000 - GateSize/2
So if the gate is one of the small ones, 4900m in size, you must set the bookmark 12550 meters to land in the center of the gate.
I find that it is useful to land in front of the gate to make it easy to click on (if you are not using AP). To do this subtract 1500 from the above number. So in the small gate example, using the distance 11000 meters will land you directly in front of the gate (and within its radius).
You can see the gate size in the overview.
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Basileus
|
Posted - 2005.01.30 14:19:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Basileus on 30/01/2005 14:33:05
Originally by: Droidster
For those who are interested in making bookmarks I would point out that the 15 km overrange that the author mentions above only works for larger gates, will never put you on the center of the gate and will always land you behind the gate (facing away from it) which is bad because you have to turn around to see it.
The formula for the distance (in meters) is:
15000 - GateSize/2
So if the gate is one of the small ones, 4900m in size, you must set the bookmark 12550 meters to land in the center of the gate.
I find that it is useful to land in front of the gate to make it easy to click on (if you are not using AP). To do this subtract 1500 from the above number. So in the small gate example, using the distance 11000 meters will land you directly in front of the gate (and within its radius).
You can see the gate size in the overview.
Another useful tip, thanks. I have incorporated it. You can use Nuala Reece's trick to make sure you jump straight away, so it does not really matter where you are relative to the gate, as long as you are within the required 2500 m of course. But your method is more precise.
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Tobius Moon
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Posted - 2005.01.30 15:56:00 -
[40]
Gotta drop my 2 cents in here.
CCP MUST condone the use of Insta-bookmarks.
Why do I think this?
The ONLY way to make some of these bigger level 4 Hauler Missions in the Bonus Time is to use insta-bookmarks. No matter how many haulers you have running to carry the elephantine load, the time it takes for any one of them to make all the warps, jumps, dockings and undockings, even maxed out with overdrives will put you over without insta-bookmarks.
Either the time limit is wrong, or CCP understands the use of insta-bookmarks (or both  )
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Gantor Paxnor
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Posted - 2005.01.30 16:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tobius Moon
Gotta drop my 2 cents in here.
CCP MUST condone the use of Insta-bookmarks.
Why do I think this?
The ONLY way to make some of these bigger level 4 Hauler Missions in the Bonus Time is to use insta-bookmarks. No matter how many haulers you have running to carry the elephantine load, the time it takes for any one of them to make all the warps, jumps, dockings and undockings, even maxed out with overdrives will put you over without insta-bookmarks.
Either the time limit is wrong, or CCP understands the use of insta-bookmarks (or both )
Perhaps you're supposed to use cruisers instead of haulers , or shuttles, or intys
I agree though, Insta jumps are a valid and legal use of the game mechanics.
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Nuala Reece
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Posted - 2005.01.30 18:10:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Nuala Reece on 30/01/2005 18:10:52
Not to mention that the link Basileus provided at the start leads to a Dev Blog specifically discussing instajumps which fails to state they are considered exploits. That would seem to clarify the position of the devs issue - if they considered it an exploit the blog would have read more like "using bookmarks as 'instajumps' is an exploit" :)
Just because the devs didn't expect people to use BM's to warp into gates at close range doesn't make it an exploit on its own. If unexpected use of game mechanics was all it took I imagine all those people using secure cans as cheap adverts would be finding themselves banned en masse :) The fact that there are ways for people to counter this tactic (mobile warp disruptors) suggests they'll continue to be considered a valid (if extremely irritating) method of getting around, leaving gate campers to shoulder the responsibility of getting better at what they do rather than expecting the devs to make it all easier with no work necessary on their part.
Be Free
Freelancing Corp |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.30 21:36:00 -
[43]
Instajumps suck and should be removed from the game.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2005.01.30 22:10:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Orb Lati on 30/01/2005 22:10:34
Insta-bookmarks are here to stay.
If they were removed you would get such an outcry from players who rely on them to quickly bypass a tedious part of the game (travel time to the gate and a station)
get use to them.
You should be asking for better ways to pull players out of warp or prevent them from wapring out.
ie.
better/cheaper mobile warp disrupters.
Abilties to follow slower ships (warp speed) into warp and attack them there to make them fall out of wapr all together.
Deployable objects that disrupt warp fields around them making it take longer to get into warp.
Oh and heres an idea.
Try to capture them getting into warp next time.
Trouble is many wannabe pirates are half into warp themselves the instant the gate flashes and sombody jumps in just in case the new player is in something more dangerous than an indie.
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.01.30 22:25:00 -
[45]
If you don't like 'Travel Time' then don't play a space game you nerds. The very word 'Space' invokes in me, thoughts of distance and travel.
I played Everquest for 3 years, on a PvP server, if you wanted fast travel you would have to get a druid or a shaman to cast a speed spell on you. It sped you up tremendously but it never removed the risk that another player could kill you. Now a wizard could 'Port' you which I guess was equivalent to insta-jumping.
It seems in EVE, everyone wants to be a wizard. But have the benefits of other classes as well.
I wonder just how many 'alliances' and how many members are in alliances, simply because insta-jumps exist. It would be interesting to see what would happen to alliances if they were removed.
Unfortunately, CCP waited too long and I guess now they're stuck with this Crash Bandicoot style gameplay, when they initially intended it to be more like Counterstrike.
Infinity Ziona
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.30 22:57:00 -
[46]
if CCP had not intendet this game to have traveling time, you whuld be able to teleport to your desired location
Instas = bad
-------------------------------------------
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2005.01.30 23:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Siddy
if CCP had not intendet this game to have traveling time, you whuld be able to teleport to your desired location
Instas = bad
strange. sounds a lot like jump gates
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Gantor Paxnor
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Posted - 2005.01.30 23:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Siddy
if CCP had not intendet this game to have traveling time, you whuld be able to teleport to your desired location
Instas = bad
Oh yeah, and why when I do missions since the Exodus patch and use the systems BM to dock back at the agent station is the system's BM an instajump?
CCP have now programmed this time saving technique into agent missions, yet you say it's bad? and some say illegal? yet the system gives me instajumps whenever I do a mission?
Get real.
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 00:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Orb Lati
Originally by: Siddy
if CCP had not intendet this game to have traveling time, you whuld be able to teleport to your desired location
Instas = bad
strange. sounds a lot like jump gates
isnt that also what the plan is with Jumpdrives?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.01.31 00:09:00 -
[50]
"It seems in EVE, everyone wants to be a wizard. But have the benefits of other classes as well."
* puts on the robe and wizard hat.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.31 01:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: MinorFreak on 31/01/2005 01:53:03
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: MinorFreak
that is not a valid argument
Its a perfectly valid argument. What are you talking about?
You really have no idea about official intentions. Not only that, you two have spoken like you've actually studied this objectively.
Tell me something, what exactly was the intention behind bookmarks? You've not alluded to that because it points to a rather large contradiction in your rants. Sure, you can rant till the cows come home about warp distance 'intentions', as long as you ignore the entire context.
*shrug* Since you fail to follow even the basic steps in making an argument. Therefore, your rants are just that, and not valid arguments.
[IMPRESSION=Dennis Miller]It's the same bloody thing as 'jetcans'...come on, people, there's simply no end to this whole 'intentions' BS the community has to hear...Do you honestly think CCP just pull stuff out of their arse and don't even attempt to think through even the most obvious of consequences?
Personally, i think they do, they just don't write their 'intentions' down and get confused when a whole bunch of whiners get up in arms about 'exploits' and 'unintended effects'...I mean, it's just so silly to expect a company introducing a feature to have written down ten commandments about what exactly they intended some tool to be used for. They're not omniscient, but they're intelligent, and they're sure as hell not going to WRITE THIS SHIITE DOWN just in case some whiner like you decides to read their freakin mind.
they can add 1+1. don't insult their intelligence. they're not that stupid.[/IMPRESSION]
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 04:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Unfortunately, CCP waited too long and I guess now they're stuck with this Crash Bandicoot style gameplay, when they initially intended it to be more like Counterstrike.
And the award for stupidest comment of the year goes to...
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Hous Balzitch
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Posted - 2005.01.31 04:52:00 -
[53]
I like instas and want them to stay, but I can see the other point of view as well. A possible middle ground solution could be to simulate to a certain degree real physics and have everthing slowly revolve around system centers. After a week, you might start missing jumps. After a month, they would be downright worthless. Just an idea...
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.01.31 05:09:00 -
[54]
Thank you for pointing that out w0rmy. I missed the CS comment. That's some funny stuff.
One of the biggest laughs of Beta were all the FPS people commenting on how they were gonna PWN everybody like in Quake or CS on the public boards. Those of us who actually played knew how rediculous those comments were.
The only thing Eve has in common with an FPS is that it's played on a computer and you can have guns.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.01.31 05:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Unfortunately, CCP waited too long and I guess now they're stuck with this Crash Bandicoot style gameplay, when they initially intended it to be more like Counterstrike.
And the award for stupidest comment of the year goes to...
Hardly stupider then your pointless comment above.
My analogy is correct, the travel times in EVE are very cartoonish compared to most other MMOGS I have played. Show me another game where you spend 10 seconds or less of your time actively travelling through a zone / system / dungeon. Show me another game where to ensure that you can catch and kill one person, you require an entire gang of people or another account and some serious meta-gaming and several hours at least unless its random killing.
EVE has gone from a hardcore, difficult game to a cartoonish, soft and cuddly game where the main and preferred form of combat is large herds of carebears shooting other large herds of carebears.
You may disagree with me but thats how I see EVE today and I'm sure if I see it that way, others do also, including potential new customers.
Having said that, I still do like EVE because you can still force PvP apon people with corp wars if you choose the right corporation in Empire (one that doesn't have insta's) and it still looks very cool, but its so watered down these days that I'm definitely on the lookout for another game, one that offers strategy, risk and non-consentual PvP without the rediculous limitations of EVE.
CCP might as well put jump drives in every ship in EVE. Then we won't need instas at all.
Infinity Ziona
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:20:00 -
[56]
Quite frankly, players who use bookmarks to bypass traveltime can spontaniously combust and die in a ditch for all I care.
I'm not in the least interested in wether they will complain or not. They abuse a weakness in the game to cut traveltime to practically nothing and travel in complete safety through even the most dangerous regions of space.
If instant, 100% secure travel is intended - ok - make ships warp to 500m of the gate automatically.
If it's not intended to work that way - don't leave it in just because the number of exploiters is very large. They won't quit, the type of player that will do anything to gain an advantage will never quit, but just look for the next way to abuse the system...
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Hardly stupider then your pointless comment above.
My analogy is correct, the travel times in EVE are very cartoonish compared to most other MMOGS I have played. Show me another game where you spend 10 seconds or less of your time actively travelling through a zone / system / dungeon. Show me another game where to ensure that you can catch and kill one person, you require an entire gang of people or another account and some serious meta-gaming and several hours at least unless its random killing.
I think youre missing one key point.
This is EVE, a game unlike any other. Comparing with other games to try and show its faults is silly, especially considering every game you have listed has far more faults than eve ever has.
"OMG J00 A|MB0T HS W4||H4X N00B PWNAGE!!!"
This is not Everquest
This is not Counterstrike
This is not Crash Bandicoot
It should be taken on its own merits, not compared with other games that arent even remotely similar.
As for your comment... comparing EVE with any FPS is stupid, regardless of whether you consider your analogy to be correct.
What next?
OMG We need giant paddles for ships and floating balls, cause pong did and that game was the ****zle!
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Noriath
If it's not intended to work that way - don't leave it in just because the number of exploiters is very large. They won't quit, the type of player that will do anything to gain an advantage will never quit, but just look for the next way to abuse the system...
So youd like to see Jet can mining removed from the game also?
As that was never intended to work that way
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Noriath on 31/01/2005 06:26:55
If it was I wouldn't complain.
In fact, I'd apreciate it if it was.
When I was a complete noob me and a buddy used to mine directly into a hauler all the time, we didn't even think anything else was possible - did it bother us? Hell no, it was fun times. In fact, it was a lot more fun because mining with several people in the same belt made sense.
When we discovered jetcan mining it turned out that you could mine gigantic quantities of ore all by yourself, and in fact had no advantage from teamwork whatsoever. Sure it's convenient, but I had more fun mining with friends into a hauler.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:58:00 -
[60]
Edited by: MinorFreak on 31/01/2005 07:11:41
Originally by: Noriath
When I was a complete noob me and a buddy used to mine directly into a hauler all the time, we didn't even think anything else was possible
uhm...i don't think that's even remotely possible. wtf are you talking about? Can you initiate 'trade' between a miner and a hauler outside of dock????
I call Bull****
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.31 06:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: MinorFreak on 31/01/2005 07:16:25
HAHAHAAH...omfg. soooooooo funn3h! 
I can't believe people are actually dumb enough to insist that THEY know exactly why CCP coded the warp to 15km for.
I think they just want to demogogue the issue so that CCP code in "warp to 500m"
here's my brilliant thought of the year. actually, i had it last year when i started as a n00b: - CCP coded warp to 15km to avoid situations where you have pro-golf tournaments at docking/jumping points
- or maybe they thought it would look retarded with everyone all blobbed up at a few spots around an object
- Or maybe they coded this whole 15km thing back when their code might have been calculating from centerpoint
- or or...jeez. alot more intelligent shiite than "OMFG EXPLOIT!!"
geee...and that wiz-bang theory someone on page 3 had about how that last 15km is soooooo important for realistic physics WHEN YOU WARP THROUGH PLANETS ENROUTE.
yeah. i got a BFI! - let's make it so you come out of warp before you hit something. YEAH!
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.01.31 08:21:00 -
[62]
Originally by: MinorFreak
Edited by: MinorFreak on 31/01/2005 07:16:25
HAHAHAAH...omfg. soooooooo funn3h!
I can't believe people are actually dumb enough to insist that THEY know exactly why CCP coded the warp to 15km for.
I think they just want to demogogue the issue so that CCP code in "warp to 500m"
here's my brilliant thought of the year. actually, i had it last year when i started as a n00b:- CCP coded warp to 15km to avoid situations where you have pro-golf tournaments at docking/jumping points
- or maybe they thought it would look retarded with everyone all blobbed up at a few spots around an object
- Or maybe they coded this whole 15km thing back when their code might have been calculating from centerpoint
- or or...jeez. alot more intelligent shiite than "OMFG EXPLOIT!!"
geee...and that wiz-bang theory someone on page 3 had about how that last 15km is soooooo important for realistic physics WHEN YOU WARP THROUGH PLANETS ENROUTE.
yeah. i got a BFI! - let's make it so you come out of warp before you hit something. YEAH!
It was coded to 15k because there was a desire to have player vs player combat in EVE.
The jump point used to be 7.5k from a gate. Because at that time there was no cloaking and there was tons of lag, this lag being further exacerbated by player drone and can lag traps, CCP implemented a bit of code that made you invulnerable to being locked till your client was ready to display. This had the undesired effect of making it extremely difficult to lock somebody before they traveled to the gate as you would get 'player is invulnerable' over and over again. So they changed the jump point from 7.5k to 2.5k.
It was at this point that insta-jumping really started to become a major problem. I know this because I was playing way back then.
Infinity Ziona
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.01.31 10:20:00 -
[63]
Nice info Basileus, I will redirect all our newbies here when they ask "Insta huh? What?"
Originally by: Khiijan Araal
Instajumps are illegal. You will be suspended or possibly banned from Eve if you are caught using them. The CCP forum is not the place to ask this kinda thing.
LOL!! Uninformed and trolling... have u even read "Ruthless"?
Intercepting since BETA |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.01.31 10:27:00 -
[64]
I love how people are now leaping on the Ruthless "prime fiction" situation as a defence for keeping insta-jumps when there are so many other parts of "prime fiction" not even in the game.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2005.01.31 10:41:00 -
[65]
The Ruthless fiction is a good source as it implies what is percieved by the developers as being acceptable or not. If this piece of fiction, which describes the hero instajumping (though not using that word) manages to pass the staff at CCP then they can't see it as an exploit.
It, of course, doesn't address wether it is beneficial or detremental to the state of eve or not. Simply that it is not viewed by the developers as a problem but indeed as a valid tactic.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.01.31 10:48:00 -
[66]
Hmm, this seems to have gone a little 'off topic'..ah well, my 2c on instas
Though i dont like them (yarrr) i have no problem with people using them.
All i want is a way to engage people away from gates such as:-
1.Deployable warp disrupters in 0.4-0.1 space
2.A return to people gating into a system at a planet rather than a gate (even if its a random planet).
I mean, using warp disrupters in 0.0 sec is all well and good, but i want to play a Pirate..not a warrior, and piracy involves breaking the law..there are no laws in 0.0 to break.
Hell, even if the local navey boys turned up to lay the smackdown in 0.1-0.4 when i deployed a disrupter, that would be ok
So, in short
Instas=good. They let peeps who have no patience or limited time play.Just give us a way to engage ships away from gates...BOOM no more ganks, no problems with instas killing piracys dumb little brother.
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.01.31 11:17:00 -
[67]
Also I advise anyone who has problems catching insta jumpers to look up what a Mobile Warp Disruptor (aka Bubble) is. They are not expensive and take only 1-5mins to set up.
The content is there, its not CCP's fault. If you want to close your borders you need to use all tools available.
Intercepting since BETA |
MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.31 15:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
It was coded to 15k because there was a desire to have player vs player combat in EVE.
thank you for the history lesson. Unfortunately, you seem to be a little unclear on the concept.
There was no "desire" to allow pvpers to be guaranteed a shot at some dumb hauler. You're speculating. It's bloody obvious the developers wanted to allow the possibility, not the absolute certainty.
You've actually proved my point. It's clear that the coding was done to allow the possibility, not the "desire" to guarantee idiot gate campers the "right" to blow the crap outta any dumb hauler.
Again, you've failed to even broach the subject of the developer's "desire" regarding 'bookmarks'
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.01.31 15:51:00 -
[69]
Mmm, again the amusing instajump topic comming upp.
It does so every few weeks and usually drags itself into 7 or 8 pages before a new one starts upp :)
Firstly, lets define exploit.
The most common definition of exploit is that you manage to utilize a feature in the game as to give you an advantage that was not intended or using a game mechanic in such a way as to affect the game performance.
A very simple explanation of the second part is the old jump point lagging method of gate blocking.
If you placed a multitude of objects at a gate it would cause lag for the person jumping in while plasing the ship ariving in space and thus allowing the camper ample time to react, lock on, shoot and destroy not only the ship but also the pod.
This was an exploit, HOWEVER, this is a very important pert, only if a multitude of objects were placed in space for the purpouse of causing game lag.
If you, like many campers at the time did, chose to spend a long time shooting at the passing ships and leaving the cans in space as well as placing minefields and using a multitude of drones you would actually cause the lag while not essentially exploiting the game.
You can not punish people for playing the game and the game not being able to cope with the play.
Now then, back to the instajumps.
Is it an exploit, hard to say, I do not know CCP's initial intention, I have no Idea why one warps in at the same distance from the gate despite skills ...
What I do know is that CCP has comented on instajump bookmarks and deemed them acceptable, the warp disruptors were entered into the game with the main purpouse to make gate camping possible despite people using instajump bookmarks.
As for combining autopilot and instajumps... I hope there is no way to do this.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.01.31 16:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Fester Addams
As for combining autopilot and instajumps... I hope there is no way to do this.
Well, there's no way to get the autopilot to fly a route using your instajumps. What you can do is warp to your instajump BM manually, then turn on the autopilot in mid-warp. That way the autopilot will get you jumping faster than you could by initiating a manual jump. You just need to kill the autopilot again before you get to the other side, so you can manually warp to your next insta again.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.01.31 16:07:00 -
[71]
Instas bad? hmm difficult to say. I would like to spend my time more for playing a game, than to traveling around.
Well for empire, i must say i wouldnt care if there are no instas. tbh iam not using instast in empire at all, but i have them. Fitting low slots full of nano hull + MWD will let turn a BS faster than cruiser and reach speeds of frigates (2,5km/s).
Imo Instas are bad in 0.0. The problem with instas is, that ships suited for traveling (read above) will travel almost same speed as full combat fitted ships.
And here is the problem. A fleet of xx+ BS can move 10 jumps in around 10 min, if they have instas. This will reduce the time the defender will have to gather a fleet enourmusly. Sure the attacker could fitt MWD+speedmodules, but this will reduce his fighting/tankingability.
With instas the aggressor has fast moving ships with maximum combatabilitys. Imo thats the problem given atm. Traveling alone isnt the problem, because as i said iam moving same speed if i fit my BS with nanos and MWD.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
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Schroni
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Posted - 2005.01.31 16:26:00 -
[72]
Originally by: w0rmy
OMG We need giant paddles for ships and floating balls, cause pong did and that game was the ****zle!
LOL
best. idea. ever. period.
stop the useless talking about instas and lets talk about that! i want giant paddles!
---
SNIGG Forums my videos |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.01.31 16:50:00 -
[73]
Edited by: j0sephine on 31/01/2005 16:52:07
"There was no "desire" to allow pvpers to be guaranteed a shot at some dumb hauler. You're speculating. It's bloody obvious the developers wanted to allow the possibility, not the absolute certainty."
Actually, the developers explained themselves quite clear around the time these changes were made, both in threads on the Patch Review forum, and on the test server where they ran long tests with the help of the players, to determine if selected warp-in/jump-in radius allow people camping the gate to intercept the traffic.
Originally the bookmarks were planned to be 'disabled' by the game code within that selected radius of jumpgates. That is, no matter if you had the bookmark for insta-jump, you'd always wind up no closer than 15km to the gate.
It was the outcry of people who resented the idea they would have to crawl 15km to every gate in 0.0 if it happened to be not camped, that changed it. The devs eventually caved in to the whining and came with the idea of warp disruptors as the way to create that 'enforced warp-in distance' effect only on gates that would actually be locked... and decided to leave the insta-jumps in, justifying it with "well it takes a lot of effort to make these bookmarks so one deserves to use them if they waste time to make them". Note though, allowing the bookmarks in the end had nothing to do with gate camping, but it was all about placating the lazy people who wanted to have their cake and eat it -- that is, to be able to travel 20+ jumps in slow ships and do it fast. The devs outright said so, making it 'the absolute certainty'.
So, no, that's not speculation. If anyone is speculating here about the subject, it'd be you simply because you lack the knowledge of circumstances surrounding the changes...
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.31 17:33:00 -
[74]
If you mine to a hauler you still have to use a can, yes, but the size of the can doesn't matter, it could hold 2000m¦ and you would still be able to do it...
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.01.31 19:16:00 -
[75]
Can you imagine life without instamarks? It would not be possible to use haulers without an escort in 0.0. As it is, unless you are setup correctly you can still get ganked on the other side when you align for warp. So, all your haulers would have to travel with an escort. It would also be unbelievably tedious (actually it already is) travelling regular routes across regions in anything but a frigate with a MWD. The journey from 0.0 to empire and back would be too dangerous for anything but a large squad and they would light up like an xmas tree on the map signalling something of value was coming through. In short, solo play would become much more difficult, even within the context of a corperation.
No, I think things are fine as they are. You need some skill/concentration/attention to make a good set of instamarks, why shouldn't you be allowed to use them? If someone wants to stop you using them for an easy gank, they just need to put up a disruptor. This represents an investment in time and effort on their part at least as great as the time and effort you put into making the marks in the first place. I think its quite well balanced at the moment actually.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.01.31 19:31:00 -
[76]
If you jumped to a random point in the system then insta jump bookmarks would no longer work. The upside is that if there were hostiles in the system you could log off and resume travel later.
I believe this is how Eve used to be...
I use instas each and every day because they are convenient, but I would be okay with CCP getting rid of them.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.31 21:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: babyblue
Can you imagine life without instamarks? It would not be possible to use haulers without an escort in 0.0.
LOL!!! Oh noes!!!
That's exactly the kind of attitude that's ruining the game
"I never want to work with anyone, I want to be able to do everything all by myself and if anything requires a little teamwork it's way to hard for me and needs changing"
One word: "Multiplayer" deal.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 22:47:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Loka
Instas bad? hmm difficult to say. I would like to spend my time more for playing a game, than to traveling around.
Lets get one thing clear once and for all
Traveling is Part of the game, it was implemented to make logistik times and allow regional markets and "deep space plases" that are hard to reach
There is things that supoce to happen to you while you travel, for exampple in dangerous areas or while participating in corp war
thats amazing, isint it - Traveling is, after all - a part of the game
Traveling and traveling times we have in Warpping, modifyed by warpspeed, and also much cursed missile speed - all are traveling times
wow, this concludes our little "theory of traveling" that makes little billy finaly understand that traveling is actualy intendet part of game called EVE-online
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 22:49:00 -
[79]
in nexst part we will have a exhibition of modules that are useful for making that traveling time shortter
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.31 23:34:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Noriath
That's exactly the kind of attitude that's ruining the game
"I never want to work with anyone, I want to be able to do everything all by myself and if anything requires a little teamwork it's way to hard for me and needs changing"
One word: "Multiplayer" deal.
Whether you like it or not, its your 1 hour weekend warriors, and lone players who are the solid base of bread and butter for Game like this. They pay the same amount, but generally play less, taking up less resources.
If you got rid of everyone who wanted to just play their own game, youd cut the paying populace of EVE in half, cutting CCP's income...
Cutting developement budgets etc etc etc...
Whether we like it or not, these players are needed to be here more so than you for the survival of eve, they pay as much, and whether you support their gameplay or not, they are financially supporting yours.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.01.31 23:38:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: babyblue
Can you imagine life without instamarks? It would not be possible to use haulers without an escort in 0.0.
LOL!!! Oh noes!!!
That's exactly the kind of attitude that's ruining the game
"I never want to work with anyone, I want to be able to do everything all by myself and if anything requires a little teamwork it's way to hard for me and needs changing"
One word: "Multiplayer" deal.
You must be joking. There is no way unless your corp is run like a paranoid communist dictatorship that you can get away with 100% teamwork 100% of the time. There are loads of people running as independants and enjoying the game (I'm not one of them by the way). Strangely enough, a lot of pirates work alone. Why should they not require teamwork too?
And for me personally, I have over the last month brought 4 Iteron Vs full of "stuff" into 0.0 *alone* using guile and some well fitted ships. Only on one occassion was I attacked and due to my setup I was able to warp to a safe spot (a bookmark) and wait for backup to arrive to escort my haul home (home in 0.0).
I am certain without instamarks not one of them would have made it through. Given the number of members in our corp and the number of times they need to travel up the various pipes through hostile territory, it would be logistically impossible to hold the route open at everyones convenience. So, my friendly thoughtless muppet, you should rethink your criticism.
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Gantor Paxnor
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Posted - 2005.01.31 23:57:00 -
[82]
large shield expanders are illegal!!! hell I was shooting something the other day and their shield went up not down! - I later found out that someone bought this exploit as a module on the market!
How can CCP let this kind of thing happen.... it's terrible, what is the game coming to?????
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.02.01 01:23:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Noriath on 01/02/2005 01:27:17
Originally by: w0rmy
Whether you like it or not, its your 1 hour weekend warriors, and lone players who are the solid base of bread and butter for Game like this. They pay the same amount, but generally play less, taking up less resources.
Ah, so in your opinion every casual gamer should take a hauler through 0.0, outrun entire fleets of pirates, possibly while transporting 280000m¦ of Megacyte...
Well, very nice, probaply he can use the billions he ought to be making every sunday afternoon to buy a personal Titan...
Originally by: babyblue
You must be joking. There is no way unless your corp is run like a paranoid communist dictatorship that you can get away with 100% teamwork 100% of the time. There are loads of people running as independants and enjoying the game (I'm not one of them by the way). Strangely enough, a lot of pirates work alone. Why should they not require teamwork too?
Yes, very true. You shouldn't have to work in a team 100% of the time. But when you want to take a slow hauler through 0.0 space I think it's in order to bring some backup.
There are plenty of things you can do alone, taking an essentially defenseless ship through parts of space where anarchy reigns in relative safety should not be one of them though.
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Ellandrian D'Amerathe
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Posted - 2005.02.01 01:45:00 -
[84]
Quote:
Yes, very true. You shouldn't have to work in a team 100% of the time. But when you want to take a slow hauler through 0.0 space I think it's in order to bring some backup.
<Agrees>
Y'all do realize in other games (EQ for instance) that there are 80 member raiding guilds working together as a team 5 nights a week. By this I mean, an entire guild, fully staffed, in the same zone working towards killing the same MOB at the same time.
My corp is pretty small, but if I need someone to run a route in a shuttle to see if its safe to bring a hauler through, I can ALWAYS get someone. I do the same for my corp mates on a regular basis.
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