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Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:11:00 - [1] Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:12:00 - [2] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave ~~carebearland~~ Eve.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:13:00 - [3] Exactly what I was thinking when I said "nerf highsec" in another forum a while ago. No one listened I think it good idea tho
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies ~~carebearland~~ Eve. If people leave over this, I won't miss them. They were trying to singleplayer in an MMO? This is not the kind of player EVE needs.
Janos Saal	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Ariz Black If people leave over this, I won't miss them. CCP will.
rofflesausage	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:18:00 - [6] Lost count how many times this has been over... It wouldn't work. Low-sec needs fundamental changes for this to be even viable. No mission runner with a brain is going to undock with a PvE ship (which has inherent fitting issues when coming up against a PvP ship in space) to get blown up. Those without a brain would undock, get blown up and not bother coming back to Eve. Go and read one of the other million threads on it. It's boring now.
Hide Yokids	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:20:00 - [7] Oh I get it, you would grief the so called carebears by warping to them during a mission and popping/ransoming/stealing loot from them! This sounds like so much fun! Not. I don't want to have to bring an entire fleet with me just so I can do some level 4s. And that would render my Paladin pretty much useless, since I wouldn't risk losing something so expensive to some random douchebag. BUT GUIS! TEARZ R SO FNNY!
Jamoan Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:22:00 - [8] If they did to this, nothing would happen. Level 4 would become like level 5. Level 3 missions would become the new level 4.
Kate Yeats Caldari ROGUE DR0NE RECONDITIONING CENTER	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Kate Yeats on 19/03/2011 19:25:06 Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. So your solution for fixing low-sec relies on the risk-adverse throwing caution to wind and migrating in droves to fly around the most dangerous areas of space in their billlion ISK+ ships. Nope, no problem there. \|The Drones are coming\|
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Jamoan Level 4 would become like level 5. Level 3 missions would become the new level 4. Nullsec ratting might actually give more isk than hisec missioning though. EVE is all about risk vs reward and level 4 is totally in contradiction to this idea. You can do level 4 easily enough in an unscannable ship anyway but at least it adds some danger in getting attacked at the station...
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Janos Saal Originally by: Ariz Black If people leave over this, I won't miss them. CCP will. This. I'm not sure you missing them is of any consequence to anyone at all.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:30:00 - [12] Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 19/03/2011 19:31:22
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Sarmatiko on 19/03/2011 19:34:24 Great idea! I also suggest removal of all anomalies, rats, complexes and expeditions from null-sec space. Pro-pvpers should only pvp in 0.0 Oh wait. After last "box removal from drone 10/10" there was so many tears from true-pvp-nullsec-citizens.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. The only change lo sec needs is for the residents there to adjust their attitude and stop whoring killmails and sucking their space dry from players. And when your targets leave you come to the forums to ***** and whine that no one wants to come and constantly get shot by you and lose their assets and isk anymore and CCP should force them to anyway. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Sarmatiko I think OP is just scared enough to participate in normal 0.0 actually you're totally misreading. all i do is nullsec small-gang pvp, defending our few systems of sov. what i am saddened by is that when i go to rat once a week to pay for ammo for my pewpew, i would make more by jumpcloning to hisec and running 4's than i can make by ratting/anomalies in null. nullsec is higher risk, it should carry higher reward. where is the justification for hisec earnings being on par with nullsec earnings? in ccp's profit margins? well **** them.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:55:00 - [16] OP, Are you trying to have a real conversation? or are you trolling? Do you ACTUALLY believe that a MISSION fit ship will risk pvp? Sadly those worlds are very different in the world of EVE. If you move lv 4s to low, then level 3s will be what people do, or they'll quit. I can understand WHY you want this change, but there needs to be a REASON other than single player pve to go to low sec. Let's talk about those instead, AG *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel I can understand WHY you want this change, but there needs to be a REASON other than single player pve to go to low sec. again, because at the moment hisec income = nullsec income > losec income. it should be nullsec income > losec income > hisec income. pve ships would still pve, people would just learn to fit eccm and ** to be unscannable. it would add a bit of risk when you undock you might get attacked. why do you think hisec only has ores in belts, ** anomalies, crappy rats, but then the super-income missions? thats not right. eve = risk/reward, not eve = free candy.
Baneken Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:00:00 - [18] I assume that OP is aware that losec is a brand of medicin for burning stomach that they sell around here. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Hide Yokids	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Ariz Black all i do is nullsec small-gang pvp, defending our few systems of sov. what i am saddened by is that when i go to rat once a week to pay for ammo for my pewpew, i would make more by jumpcloning to hisec and running 4's than i can make by ratting/anomalies in null. nullsec is higher risk, it should carry higher reward. where is the justification for hisec earnings being on par with nullsec earnings? in ccp's profit margins? well ** them. So... you don't even do anything in Low sec, but you're crying for them to fix low sec. You sound like a whiny, greedy, *** tbh. Poor widdle piwate... :(
rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to run level 3s. I believe the correct vernacular is: FYP.
Admiral Sarah Solette	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:03:00 - [21] Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 20:03:01 Originally by: Ariz Black pve ships would still pve, people would just learn to fit eccm and **** to be unscannable. it would add a bit of risk when you undock you might get attacked. Apparently, you've never missioned before. You don't have enough slots on a mission ship to fit ECCM or any PvP modules! PvE ships /= PvP ships.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Apparently, you've never missioned before. You don't have enough slots on a mission ship to fit ECCM i haven't, but i hear from my friends that they have lv4 and lv5 unscannable setups on t3's for doing nullsec missioning, those of them who have the standings for it
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Ariz Black all i do is nullsec small-gang pvp, defending our few systems of sov. what i am saddened by is that when i go to rat once a week to pay for ammo for my pewpew, i would make more by jumpcloning to hisec and running 4's than i can make by ratting/anomalies in null. I see, so you don`t do carebearing at all. Then you agree that all this carebear **** like anomalies, ratting and complexes should be removed from 0.0 completely because this game only for pvp? Why would someone bother killing npc in 0.0 if they must pvp 24/7?
Myelinated	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 20:03:01 Originally by: Ariz Black pve ships would still pve, people would just learn to fit eccm and **** to be unscannable. it would add a bit of risk when you undock you might get attacked. Apparently, you've never missioned before. You don't have enough slots on a mission ship to fit ECCM or any PvP modules! PvE ships /= PvP ships. Apparently you're bad at eve and don't know how to fit delicious unprobable faction fit t3s I use to run null/lowsex level 4 missions and plexs with.
Admiral Sarah Solette	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Myelinated Apparently you're bad at eve and don't know how to fit delicious unprobable faction fit t3s I use to run null/lowsex level 4 missions and plexs with. Apparently you can't grasp the concept of: I don't want to have to get a T3 ship, just to do a level 4 mission. Hard concept, huh?
Noremac Mugatu	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:19:00 - [26] Since we're doing some equations here, let's look at the word "PVP" cuz that's really what you want. PVP = Player vs Player. Basically human trying to outwit and outplay other human. Now you want CCP to get involved and force the unwilling in to your cage just so you can have your one sided fight. If you can't find targets in low sec, you're not doing it right. By making the developer take your side and change the rules to suit your needs, you are negating the whole PVP experience. We would have to call it PCCPvP, and that's just hard to say...
Myelinated	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Originally by: Myelinated Apparently you're bad at eve and don't know how to fit delicious unprobable faction fit t3s I use to run null/lowsex level 4 missions and plexs with. Apparently you can't grasp the concept of: I don't want to have to get a T3 ship, just to do a level 4 mission. Hard concept, huh? Maybe you shouldn't generalize that all mission ships can't be made unprobable like a smacktard then. Hmm?
Tagera	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:28:00 - [28] I was under the impression that eccm only affected the use of ecm's on a ship. And that probes could track you down no matter what.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Janos Saal Originally by: Ariz Black If people leave over this, I won't miss them. CCP will. And with most people who plays eve are to be found in hisec the potential losses of customers can be high. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Captain Die Suicide by Cop	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:32:00 - [30] Losec: Nerf Gate guns. Boost agents. ABC ores in belts. Increase amount of stations. Boost ratting. Boost anom spawn rate. --- DIE - EVE-O's SADOMASICHIST I WHO HAVE NOTHING!
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:39:00 - [31] You're all missing the point. It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec. It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give. If you want that kind of income there should be an associated risk, and there isn't. Noone suicide ganks t1 battleships with t2 fittings anyway.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:41:00 - [32] I'm for anything that can make the desert wasteland that is losec to be more active. Right now it's void of pretty much anything but empty space. Peace through supreme firepower
Cys Root Gallente Onefix RD	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:42:00 - [33] I make more money trading than any normal person makes running level 4 missions, should we restrict trade to low-sec only also?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Dear sir or GIRL, you have been officially declared too stupid to post in this forums. Please leave the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. Thanks.
Wtes Noreun Detanileym	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:46:00 - [35] Drop every system's sec status by 0.1 except newbie starters.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:47:00 - [36] That would not substantially boost lowsec. Lowsec already produces huge, easy ISK for those willing to risk it via level 5's and FW missions. All your proposal would do is nerf highsec.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Emperor Cheney All your proposal would do is nerf highsec. by nerfing hisec, losec is relatiely boosted. hisec is op anyway.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:06:00 - [38] Originally by: Ariz Black Originally by: Emperor Cheney All your proposal would do is nerf highsec. by nerfing hisec, losec is relatiely boosted. hisec is op anyway. Just ask yourself how many people is actually doing Lvl5 since they where "fixed" and only happen in lowsec... those lvl5 agents are now the loneliest NPCs in EvE & most Lvl5 could break down and nobody ever notice it.
garus banta	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:14:00 - [39] oh you are so naive. see the little fish dont go the pond where the big fish hunt. No amount of mission tweaking will change that, see it's still ALL YOUR FAULT. It's not the missions it's YOU!
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:17:00 - [40] i will now re-quote myself just because people fail at reading. Originally by: Ariz Black You're all missing the point. It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec. It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give.
Admiral Sarah Solette	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:24:00 - [41] Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:25:41 Originally by: Myelinated Maybe you shouldn't generalize that all mission ships can't be made unprobable like a smacktard then. Hmm? You created a new word just for me? I'm touched, really. That's one ship class that could successfully run a level 4 without being scanned down. Pull your head out of your ass ****tard, and think about the proposal a little more. k? Here, I'll fix it since you can't wrap your puny brain around the concept: It would render the majority of level 4 missioning ships useless. Better now? Can you understand a basic concept now?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:34:00 - [42] Highsec-only players will never go to lowsec. Lowsec is fundamentally unappealing to those players. They do go to null, where safety can also be achieved. This does not in any way "boost low sec."
Myelinated	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:25:41 Originally by: Myelinated Maybe you shouldn't generalize that all mission ships can't be made unprobable like a smacktard then. Hmm? You created a new word just for me? I'm touched, really. That's one ship class that could successfully run a level 4 without being scanned down. Pull your head out of your ass ****tard, and think about the proposal a little more. k? Here, I'll fix it since you can't wrap your puny brain around the concept: It would render the majority of level 4 missioning ships useless. Better now? Can you understand a basic concept now? Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. But for somone like you who is bad at eve it is too much to ask.
I'thari Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Ariz Black i will now re-quote myself just because people fail at reading. Originally by: Ariz Black You're all missing the point. It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec. It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give. looks at thread title and OP Yes, all this misuderstanding is obviously because some people fail at reading
Lucy Journey	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Ariz Black You're all missing the point. It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec. It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give. I could be inclined to agree that risk vs reward for L4's in highsec is a bit skewed with a tad too high reward for a smidgeon too low risk. Moving them to lowsec on the other hand would greatly skew the risk vs reward the other way around. Risk would be unacceptably high for the given reward. So if this ever get's implemented (I wouldn't count on it), and with the new risk vs reward balance being way worse than it is now, can I trust you will be coming to the forums and suggesting changes to counter this new imbalance? I mean, since you clearly are not suggesting these changes to get more targets in lowsec, but from a more unbiased and elevated standpoint. I would expect nothing less.
Admiral Sarah Solette	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:40:00 - [46] Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:41:08 Originally by: Myelinated Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. That is an excellent point! For null sec. Where you can have an entire alliance in the same system ready to come at your call of trouble. We're talking about low sec here, not nullsec. So according to you, I'm bad at eve, but according to your reading comprehension, you suck at reading. All's good.
Myelinated	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:41:08 Originally by: Myelinated Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. That is an excellent point! For null sec. Where you can have an entire alliance in the same system ready to come at your call of trouble. We're talking about low sec here, not nullsec. So according to you, I'm bad at eve, but according to your reading comprehension, you suck at reading. All's good. Same applies to lowsec. if you have your corperation based out of the same space in lowsec then you can call for help as well! Unless you're an anti-social loner who doesn't have a Corperation, but then the question becomes why do you even bother playing mmos?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Myelinated Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:41:08 Originally by: Myelinated Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. That is an excellent point! For null sec. Where you can have an entire alliance in the same system ready to come at your call of trouble. We're talking about low sec here, not nullsec. So according to you, I'm bad at eve, but according to your reading comprehension, you suck at reading. All's good. Same applies to lowsec. if you have your corperation based out of the same space in lowsec then you can call for help as well! Unless you're an anti-social loner who doesn't have a Corperation, but then the question becomes why do you even bother playing mmos? This is "my playstyle is better than other people's playstyle" thread #2384723
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:22:00 - [49] Originally by: Myelinated Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:41:08 Originally by: Myelinated Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. That is an excellent point! For null sec. Where you can have an entire alliance in the same system ready to come at your call of trouble. We're talking about low sec here, not nullsec. So according to you, I'm bad at eve, but according to your reading comprehension, you suck at reading. All's good. Same applies to lowsec. if you have your corperation based out of the same space in lowsec then you can call for help as well! Unless you're an anti-social loner who doesn't have a Corperation, but then the question becomes why do you even bother playing mmos? Doh, as if the OP wasn't enough, now we get this "Play my way or leave the game" plummeting the IQ of the thread even lower... what would be next?
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:28:00 - [50] lvl 4s are "high income"? i must be doing it wrong. they're mediocre income at best. as for "no risk", not if you do it in a mission hub and lose a good chunk of your revenue to ninja salvagers ganking your loot and salvage. ♥
Goose99	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Myelinated Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:41:08 Originally by: Myelinated Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. That is an excellent point! For null sec. Where you can have an entire alliance in the same system ready to come at your call of trouble. We're talking about low sec here, not nullsec. So according to you, I'm bad at eve, but according to your reading comprehension, you suck at reading. All's good. Same applies to lowsec. if you have your corperation based out of the same space in lowsec then you can call for help as well! Unless you're an anti-social loner who doesn't have a Corperation, but then the question becomes why do you even bother playing mmos? This is amusing. Why don't you try undocking once in a while? We hotdropped a shuttle in with titan & company a while back. Why? Because we can. Lolsec is lol. We then went back to sov null home to chain sanctums for 100+ mil per hr. Lowsec mission runners soon lose enough agent standing and are forced to move back to highsec, regardless of their willingness to risk boats. No amount of reward is going to make a difference. If this weren't the case lvl5s would've been a boon to lowsec. Before mission scanning, carebears were in lowsec. Then it got implemented, and they left. Come up with whatever "fixes" you want, only one will work. Lvl5s that pays up to 150k LP per mission are by far the most profitable activity in all of Eve, more than 100 mil/hr sov null sanctums, more than whs, rivaled only by exceptionally lucky plex drops. The most profitable activity in Eve is already in lowsec, and lowsec only. Yet almost no one bothers to do it. Why do you think that is?
Myelinated	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:29:00 - [52] I forgot that people play mmos such eve to isolate themselves from others playing the game.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:42:00 - [53] Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai on 19/03/2011 22:43:15 Originally by: Myelinated I forgot that people play mmos such eve to isolate themselves from others playing the game. You forget that this game is essentially about people trying to grief and bully people, which is fine for a jail's yard but doesn't exactly count as a social club in my book. And all in all, we don't know each other and you already are scorning me and inviting me to leave the game becase I am not like you and your buddies...
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:44:00 - [54] Edited by: Selinate on 19/03/2011 22:45:13 level 4's aren't as profitable as level 5's (which are all in low sec) or 0.0, plain and simple. Did I poke a hole in the reason for this thread?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Myelinated I forgot that people play mmos such eve to isolate themselves from others playing the game. No. What people don't do is play to enhance your fun at the expense of theirs . Go troll somewhere else. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Wtes Noreun Detanileym	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:50:00 - [56] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Myelinated I forgot that people play mmos such eve to isolate themselves from others playing the game. No. What people don't do is play to enhance your fun at the expense of theirs . Go troll somewhere else. Apparently you are playing tye wrong game then.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Goose99 The most profitable activity in Eve is already in lowsec, and lowsec only. Yet almost no one bothers to do it. Why do you think that is? Because null sec is typically safer than low sec if you're in one of your alliance's systems (as far as staying in one system at a time and doing something to make isk goes).
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:59:00 - [58] Originally by: Goose99 Lvl5s that pays up to 150k LP per mission are by far the most profitable activity in all of Eve Up to 150k. Per mission.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:02:00 - [59] 150k LP per lvl 5? WTF are you smoking? --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. lol.. why is it ever "fix" for low sec basically is a scheme to fill it pve players, so pvp players can blow them up with no chance of getting into a real fight.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:16:00 - [61] Originally by: adriaans 150k LP per lvl 5? WTF are you smoking? /me shrugs. But I wish he'd share it.
yumike	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:54:00 - [62] First off, if your making less in null then level fours your either: 1.) In NPC null. 2.) Doing it horrificly wrong. HORRIFICLY. Secondly, in regards to moving more people to lowsec- we agree. It's a desert down there. Why? Because I mostly play in null & high, Low offers no benefit to me whatsoever but offers all the risk (more or less) of null. The issue with low isn't that "level 4s are op" or some such nonsense. It's that Shy of doing lowsec missions in T3's (Which is silly. Yes they can do it, But any properly fit T1 BS should be clearing them quicker and thus more cost effectively) Saying "Just mission in lowsec in t3's" is like me telling you "just pvp in dominix's" If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp. The vast majority of qq I read was in regards to defending ourselves while we do that level 5. Not only do we get neuted, scrammed, web'd, but we're in lowsec with a more or less heavily kitted out ship to mission specific resistances (with faction mods, T2 for the most part didn't allow you the room to do 5s comfortably) And we're supposed to have the means to defend ourself from a "awesome pirate -10 proski" I lived in lowsec for two years ('05 and '06) The risk/reward is the issue here. The fact that i'll be capless, triple (or more) scrammed + webbed to crap, in my pve ship (rattle was most common for tanking V's) worth at least 1.4bil~ and your gonna come in alone or with a mate (more likely the latter) with your trash 4mil isk vexor and kill my rattle which cannot support a pvp viable fit while retaining the ability to tank the V's (Which can be upwards of 4k+ damage per second) You might think your a really bad ass pvp'er, but the fact is you had the fight handed to you. They had zero options. I'm not saying the missions should be made easier, or that pirating should change in lowsec. They are both working as intended. Infact I can't see a viable change at all, In all likeliness neither can CCP and that is why the system as it is right now. Poster above me.. no one ever made 150k LP off a single V. even with max social the most I ever seen on my missioner was just under 80k. They were blowing smoke.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:55:00 - [63] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 20/03/2011 00:56:21 Originally by: Ariz Black Originally by: Chesty McJubblies ~~carebearland~~ Eve. If people leave over this, I won't miss them. They were trying to singleplayer in an MMO? This is not the kind of player EVE needs. Well, dear, you may not miss them but CCP would miss them.And so we have level 4 agents in hisec. After having spent the better part of a year in w-space I can say without reservation that l4 missions in hisec are not something that needs to be changed. It's rewards are mediocre on the scale of things. Look, I understand what you're trying to do. But, I don't agree with it. You're attempting to force the adaptation of other people's game play to suit your own, i.e. torture defenseless creatures.
Frau Klaps Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.03.20 01:04:00 - [64] Not that it is a 100% fix, my low sec suggestion is to make it the only place where rats give bounties. It doesn't solve much but it certainly gives it a unique reason to PVE there and increases the population somewhat. It is not about getting more carebear targets into belts for pirates to chew on since carebears have no need to raise their sec levels. If 0.0 is lawless, why do Concord offer bounties for killing rats there. High sec can just go to hell ---
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.20 01:24:00 - [65] Originally by: yumike If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp. Counterpoint: everyone was complaining about the risk of PVP. In regards to the rest of your post, many players do successfully run LV5s in lowsec. Their removal from highsec has made these players even richer via increased LP strength, and that is a good thing. And to the thread in general: lowsec is fine. There's boatloads of isk to be made already, and players who prefer lowsec will naturally be limited, as most players in EVE would prefer either safety or territory, and lowsec by design offers neither.
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:08:00 - [66] OH HAI GUISE, it's this thread again. Ratting low sec is kinda my other career. Don't bother with your idiotic isk/hr calculations, it's a kind of fun that can't be bought. Ratting is as boring as mining, except for the people trying to catch and kill you while you do it. Whenever i see this thread i am compelled to suggest the same thing every time: buy/make/acquire tons of hi meta/t2/desirable objects and sell them at a station many jumps from either hi or null. Price items carefully so it's not worth buying em all and running, but still worth travelling and purchasing. Create a de facto market hub that will DRAW targets into your dinner bowl. DON'T ask CCP to PUSH players to you. SPEND the isk and MAKE what you want to happen, HAPPEN. Or you could, y'know, STFU.
High energy Purification	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:15:00 - [67] Low-sec should attract people as a place for small-gang PvP. So any rewards should be based around PvP. So why does the discussion always focus on PvE? Have a low-sec that is NPC controlled but they'll give "protection" contracts to player corporations. That corporation gets a cut from PvE / Mining / PvP kills in that space. Bears can bear (cautiously), small groups can claim space (without needing a super-cap fleet) and PvP people can decide whether they want to defend their own territory or trash someone elses. Could easily be tied into a faction warfar system if they wanted to fix that. But the real answer, since you can't bang a clue into CCP's head even with a club is a simple sentence, "CCP, make low-sec more fun"
nugget906	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: adriaans 150k LP per lvl 5? WTF are you smoking? /me shrugs. But I wish he'd share it. There was a 0.1 sec Ammatar agent that pays close to that, might reach it if I had higher social skills. None of the caldari agents near highsec that ppl used pull highsec missions from pay nearly that much, 80k tops.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:41:00 - [69] Fixing losec is a bad idea. You'll only get sued by AstraZeneca. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Myelinated Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:25:41 Originally by: Myelinated Maybe you shouldn't generalize that all mission ships can't be made unprobable like a smacktard then. Hmm? You created a new word just for me? I'm touched, really. That's one ship class that could successfully run a level 4 without being scanned down. Pull your head out of your ass ****tard, and think about the proposal a little more. k? Here, I'll fix it since you can't wrap your puny brain around the concept: It would render the majority of level 4 missioning ships useless. Better now? Can you understand a basic concept now? Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention. But for somone like you who is bad at eve it is too much to ask. Hey, Alliance idiot, just how many people do you think running level 4's in high-sec could actually afford marauders, carriers etc? And be able to afford losing them in lowsec to wannabe pvp'ers? I would say not many, and of those that CAN afford them, its because they were able to build up their funds running level 4's IN HIGH SEC. To the OP, if you take level 4 missions away from high sec, you'll see even less people down in lowsec and you'll have a lot less pew pew to do. Oh and if you can't earn as much doing low sec ratting/anoms as I can in my level 4 missions, then you are doing something very, very wrong.
yumike	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Originally by: yumike If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp. Counterpoint: everyone was complaining about the risk of PVP. In regards to the rest of your post, many players do successfully run LV5s in lowsec. Their removal from highsec has made these players even richer via increased LP strength, and that is a good thing. And to the thread in general: lowsec is fine. There's boatloads of isk to be made already, and players who prefer lowsec will naturally be limited, as most players in EVE would prefer either safety or territory, and lowsec by design offers neither. I'm not sure who everyone is because even if you were running them pre-nerf you still had to do the odd one in lowsec or else facing a 4hour timer. Yes, I see a few groups that still say they run level 5's, but i'm yet to find an actual group running them. Even with 4k~ dps on the field it was taking me 40 minutes on the field to clear them. It's hardly feasible currently. I encourage you and would welcome some proof beyond one guy who still thinks its worthwhile (or is nefariously lucky.. because that could go either or.)
Xavier Isaacson Minmatar Surface Detail	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:33:00 - [72] Originally by: Frau Klaps Not that it is a 100% fix, my low sec suggestion is to make it the only place where rats give bounties. It doesn't solve much but it certainly gives it a unique reason to PVE there and increases the population somewhat. It is not about getting more carebear targets into belts for pirates to chew on since carebears have no need to raise their sec levels. If 0.0 is lawless, why do Concord offer bounties for killing rats there. High sec can just go to hell What a thoroughly dumb idea. For a start, there are bounties on little baby rats in high sec space for the newer players to cut their teeth on should they choose to do so. As for null-sec pirates having bounties, a criminal is still a criminal even if they go and hide round the corner from the cops, so why wouldn't Concord have bounties for them? It is abudantly clear what all of these threads are about and that is that low-sec piwats want more targets. Which is why, in answer to someone elses question, nearly all these "boost low sec" threads contain numerous ideas centering around moving missions or changing high sec loot drops. You never see anyone making serious well thought out plans for bringing people out of null sec do you? No, its always high sec "Carebears" that these people want to see more of. I wonder why that might be? Possibly something to do with the fact that the majority of low sec dwellers are small groups of poorly trained, undisciplined idiots whose sole aim is to be crowned King/Queen douche. High sec mission runners would be perfect targets for these piwats, untrained in PvP as most of them are, and flying faction fit ships that make the little piwats simultaneously wet themselves with envy and drool at the idea of getting the loot. Perhaps if these piwats are actually serious about wanting improved conditions, they might try setting up in one of the smaller null sec systems. Plenty of PvP could be had from whichever alliance owns the nearby space, rats with their bounties would not be far away as well as anoms and even level 5 missions. Faction loot galore, all the minerals they would need to build ships and more PvP than they could shake a stick at. Oh wait, I forgot, that would put them on the wrong end of the fight. They want to be able to omgwtfpwn everything in sight, not get pwnd themselves. Afterall who wants anything even resembling a challenge or fair fight eh? Thats why they live in low sec and not in null and thats why low sec is so crap, too many chiefs as it were. Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
Memorya	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Do you even understand what you wrote ? Doing this woud mean death of EVE Online. PVP'er are minority and not majority in Eve. ------------------------ English is my 5th. Language.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:38:00 - [74] Edited by: Horizonist on 20/03/2011 09:42:26 Originally by: Xavier Isaacson It is abudantly clear what all of these threads are about and that is that low-sec piwats want more targets. Which is why, in answer to someone elses question, nearly all these "boost low sec" threads contain numerous ideas centering around moving missions or changing high sec loot drops. You never see anyone making serious well thought out plans for bringing people out of null sec do you? No, its always high sec "Carebears" that these people want to see more of. This, a hundred times over.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Memorya Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Do you even understand what you wrote ? Doing this woud mean death of EVE Online. PVP'er are minority and not majority in Eve. Not that I am agreeing with the silly twit you quoted there, but you are incorrect. I would suggest that pure PVP'ers and pure PVE'ers are equal in number and together make up a very small percentage of the total EVE population. The majority of the populace is most likely made up of people who engage in both activities. I point to the relative long term stability of the market, especially post npc-manufacturing, and increasing unique subscriber numbers as proof that neither pure pvp'ers nor pure pve'ers are dominant. If pure pvp'ers dominated we would have seen an all out conflict break out followed swiftly by falling sub numbers and then EVE's demise. Conversly, if pure pve'ers dominated we would see massive market upheavals followed by player numbers falling drastically to a much lower level and again, the death of the game. Since player numbers are increasing, an EVE wide war hasn't broken out and the market is as stable as ever, it is clear that the game world is well balanced and stable. A Status Quo has established itself quite nicely
The Old Chap	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:39:00 - [76] "Lo-sec is a wasteland..." I'm OK with that.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.20 11:57:00 - [77] I HAD AN EPIPHANY! GOD HERSELF CAME DOWN FROM HEAVENS AND SAID TO ME: What if lowsec mission NPCs demanded a thorough PvP fit to be defeated? I mean, like if missions had only ONE rat, but that rat was like a T2 fit for PvP so the mission runner would need a Marauder's DPS and tank to kill it soon enough. PLUS, the rat would fire first at anyone not belonging to the mission (in case a ninja could locate the misison runner soon enough). Think of missions having targets like NPC BS with 4,000 alpha, PvP fit & a worthy bounty (say, 20 million). That kind of NPC mission target would create its own kind of mission runner -one used to deal with PvP NPCs with her PvP fit, and a steady income from hisec PvE-fit missions. So mission runners no longer would be hapless bunnies with a 2 billion "shoot me" bullseye, but seasoned wolves with 2 billion PvP pwnmachines AND a income source to build & replace them...
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:03:00 - [78] CCP should just add some escalation system to the current mission system, just like the escalations when doing plexs. The escalation would eg. be 3 steps all of them in low sec, where the first two would be completed in BC class ships, and the last step may be doable with BC but a lot harder making it more tempting to use a battleship. The rewards should be alot higher then normal level 4 missions, and the final step could eg. have a change of faction loot. CCP should also do something about the fairness of pve vs. pvp fights, if you get jumped by an enemy player while doing pve content you not only have to fight the player but also all the rats. When webbed the damage from the rats are most of the time enough to kill you, add to that a player that is draining you cap and adding a lot of extra damage. If all rats had 50/50 change of changing target when someone warps in, at least the pve players would have the chance that some ewar rats would target the enemy player, and with some with lucky target jamming that maybe would be enough to get away. I'm sure CCP could make some small changes that would up the survival rate of pve players in low sec, i think the feeling of always losing unfair fights is keep players ways from low sec just as much as the fear of losing onces ship.
Aoa Lux Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:23:00 - [79] Originally by: Ariz Black You can do level 4 easily enough in an unscannable ship anyway but at least it adds some danger in getting attacked at the station... Oh god why would ANYONE support an increase of station humpery
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:07:00 - [80] AS FAR AS I KNOW OMEPRAZOLE IS STILL WORKING JUST FINE ?
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:20:00 - [81] Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai I HAD AN EPIPHANY! GOD HERSELF CAME DOWN FROM HEAVENS AND SAID TO ME: What if lowsec mission NPCs demanded a thorough PvP fit to be defeated? I mean, like if missions had only ONE rat, but that rat was like a T2 fit for PvP so the mission runner would need a Marauder's DPS and tank to kill it soon enough. PLUS, the rat would fire first at anyone not belonging to the mission (in case a ninja could locate the misison runner soon enough). Think of missions having targets like NPC BS with 4,000 alpha, PvP fit & a worthy bounty (say, 20 million). That kind of NPC mission target would create its own kind of mission runner -one used to deal with PvP NPCs with her PvP fit, and a steady income from hisec PvE-fit missions. So mission runners no longer would be hapless bunnies with a 2 billion "shoot me" bullseye, but seasoned wolves with 2 billion PvP pwnmachines AND a income source to build & replace them... and we shall name those missions "Incursions"! --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Caeye Assault Technologies Solar Assault Fleet	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:41:00 - [82] Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 20/03/2011 13:42:10 Easiest fix for low sec. Get ride of it! It doesn't work as it stands. No easy targets for player pirates to gank and that is their argument not others. If you want small scale PvP then use Corp War mechansms. Oh but that means no game mechanics to hide behind, and too many 'innocent' looking Industrial Corps know how to PvP when they have too Honest, that is about the best way to deal with it. Split current low sec systems between becoming high sec systems and nul sec systems. That then gives more to the two largest player groups at the expence of the smallest
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:22:00 - [83] no way on the moving missions bit..... just wouldn't work. wouldn't accomplish more activity in lowsec and would make missioning near pointless. what i think the solution would be is higher returns for the same activities as compared to both high and null. better rat bounties, much higher returns on the same level of missions (xcept i think null should be higher here - NPC null is very dangerous and lucrative), more anoms and plex's. ... maybe even some form of play/isk making that doesn't exist elsewhere. make it so that faction standings can be gained faster via rats or the local "npc police" or something thereabouts. further, make it so the balance between null and lowsec is a matter of alliance vs individual. moons, stations, cap production, JB's, etc make null attractive for alliances while higher returns for individual activities make lowsec more attractive for, well, individuals.
Xuthi Minmatar EAT THE POOR	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:30:00 - [84] Fixing the probing system might help get people into low sec doing missions etc. As it stands at the moment it is way to easy/ quick to probe down people and is much to skewed in the pirates favor.
Flynn Fetladral BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:31:00 - [85] Low sec needs some tweaks but I don't agree Level 4 agents should me moved to 0.4 - 0.1. There need to be industries which are related to low sec space IMHO, more support for booster production, along with maybe low sec stations providing a small bonus to research and production over high-sec to make it more attractive (due to black market availability, and corner cutting in R&D aka no Heath and Safe). I'd like to obviously see CCP look at Faction Warfare, it needs some tweaks. Give pirates and Militia more active role in their chosen career, and more meaningful links to the lore of the game, and the impact that should bring. The last thing I want to see is millions of people moving to low sec, I don't want it to end up like high-sec or null-sec thanks.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:37:00 - [86] It's still fine. Just go elsewhere if you don't like it. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
TharOkha	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:13:00 - [87] Originally by: Ariz Black ....waaaah, remove L4 from highsec.... Another PvP carebear complaining. If you "somehow", cannot earn more isk in null than hisec l4, you probably doing something terribly wrong .
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:55:00 - [88] Originally by: Ariz Black You're all missing the point. It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec. It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give. If you want that kind of income there should be an associated risk, and there isn't. Noone suicide ganks t1 battleships with t2 fittings anyway. You don't need to touch missions to make a heck of a lot more than that in high sec just with trading alone. Moving level 4 missions to high sec would simply remove some variety from my game. It's fun to fly battleships in missions, but I sure as heck would not put my mission running ship on the line in lowsec. If I had to fly the missions in some piece of crap T1 junk, I wouldn't bother in the first place, at this point.
Jaik7	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:01:00 - [89] i am contributing to my corp with tax funds when i do missions. it is not single player!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:08:00 - [90] All you need to do to get more people into low-sec is push Concord's influence in there right down to > 0.0 space. Add Concord, add people. Simple fact. Of course, this doesn't make the super-leet ninjamachopirates of low-sec happy, but they'll have more targets.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:10:00 - [91] Lowsec is fine, just add more FW systems to lowsec and you'll have plenty of pew-pew, hell make all of lowsec FW systems. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:23:00 - [92] Originally by: Ingvar Angst All you need to do to get more people into low-sec is push Concord's influence in there right down to > 0.0 space. Add Concord, add people. Simple fact. Of course, this doesn't make the super-leet ninjamachopirates of low-sec happy, but they'll have more targets. That would make it hisec. Maybe people like you who don't live in losec but still find they totally need to change it are the real problem? Losec is fine I would know I've lived there for years. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:33:00 - [93] Originally by: Xuthi Edited by: Xuthi on 20/03/2011 16:46:51 Fixing the probing system might help get people into low sec doing missions etc. As it stands at the moment it is way to easy/ quick to probe down people and is much to skewed in the pirates favor. Quote: I'm sure CCP could make some small changes that would up the survival rate of pve players in low sec, i think the feeling of always losing unfair fights is keep players ways from low sec just as much as the fear of losing onces ship Theres plenty of things you can do yourself to up your survival rate. I dont mean this to sound bad to you or w/e but as an example, I found you in your mission 2 days ago and i travelled 60km across your mission in an AB frig fitted with a scram. you did not even attempt to warp off in that time. If your going to do mission in low sec then paying attention is one thing you can do which would boost your survival rate massively. Again, that wasnt ment as a dig at you or anything along those lines, I was merely pointing out that there are quite a number of things that you as a player can do to maximise your survival in low sec, that does not require CCP to make changes. That aside, I do think it is too easy for pirates to gank pvers in low sec, and I think specifically the probing system needs to be looked at like I mentioned earlier. I saw you on scan even before you used the gate to get to the last pocket, i just did not care it i lost the myrmidon. I had reached the point where scanning down sites, just have be forced out be pvp players was so annoying i did'nt give a **** if i lost the ship or not. I kinda like the extra danger of doing exploration in low sec, but when it comes to profit it's not very desirable. The window of opportunity when doing exploration is not big, which leaves you with two options spend time looking for empty systems or spend time running from pirates. After some time i reach the point where it just feels like wasting time, and i should go back to hi-sec and make some isk.
Grohalmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:01:00 - [94] I think lowsec is pretty much fine. I get plenty of fights every day. Furthermore,there are lots of people that embrace the risk/reward aspect, so contrary to popular belief there are still plenty of targets. Some even have teeth. As for a fix, I'd love it if all 0.0 entry points were linked to lowsec.* As a more extreme change, but in the same vein, all regions should be linked by lowsec. This would open new career opportunities and provide more "real" piracy.* Make booster production a lowsec venture only.* Also, making it all FW isn't a terrible idea. *obviously, these ideas are old and rehashed, much like this thread
StillBorn CrackBaby	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:21:00 - [95] Originally by: Hide Yokids Oh I get it, you would grief the so called carebears by warping to them during a mission and popping/ransoming/stealing loot from them! This sounds like so much fun! Not. I don't want to have to bring an entire fleet with me just so I can do some level 4s. And that would render my Paladin pretty much useless, since I wouldn't risk losing something so expensive to some random douchebag. BUT GUIS! TEARZ R SO FNNY! Yeah these lo-sec whiners are a bunch of jerks. As long as THEY are having fun why should anyone else???
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:23:00 - [96] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Ingvar Angst All you need to do to get more people into low-sec is push Concord's influence in there right down to > 0.0 space. Add Concord, add people. Simple fact. Of course, this doesn't make the super-leet ninjamachopirates of low-sec happy, but they'll have more targets. That would make it hisec. Maybe people like you who don't live in losec but still find they totally need to change it are the real problem? Losec is fine I would know I've lived there for years. I never said it was a good idea, but you have to admit, it would get more people in there.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:30:00 - [97] Originally by: Ingvar Angst I never said it was a good idea, but you have to admit, it would get more people in there. Well on that we can agree. I'm merely saying that people who don't enjoy the lowsec playstyle (probably for completely valid reasons) should consider that there are huge other areas of eve that they can play with. I for one don't like the 0.0 style life and the answer for me is to stay out of 0.0. I don't try to change 0.0 to suit my needs but rather acknowledge that other players enjoy that playstyle and probably for good reasons too. The funny thing is in lowsec I never meet people who want to change it(small tweaks aside). It seems like a forum only problem to me tbh. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:48:00 - [98] Edited by: Vantoth on 21/03/2011 19:48:36 Originally by: Ariz Black nullsec is higher risk, it should carry higher reward. Null sec is higher risk, It's higher risk because of the Players, not the NPC's. I do believe it has higher rewards in the form of bigger rat bounties not to mention access to better ores. Originally by: Ariz Black where is the justification for hisec earnings being on par with nullsec earnings? As some folks have said, if you are making less in LO sec than you do in hi sec you are doing something very wrong. Originally by: Ariz Black in ccp's profit margins? well **** them. Of course CCP should never make a profit, how dare they. I mean really how dare they make money from our fun. They should make the game exactly how we want it even if it costs them thousands of subscriptions and even the ability to pay their employees. Face it, you are scared to go into Null sec so want the folks who have little in the way of PVP experience to be forced to come where you can kill with impunity to stroke your e-vaj.
Gogela Freeport Exploration	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:57:00 - [99] /signed. Also: Allow interdiction spheres and warp bubbles in low sec. That's all it would take to fix low sec. "A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie."
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:00:00 - [100] Originally by: Gogela /signed. Also: Allow interdiction spheres and warp bubbles in low sec. That's all it would take to fix low sec. Yeah, that's all it would take to "permanently fix lowsec". - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Akhmed TDT	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:17:00 - [101] Yes, lowsec sucks. But without a few changes, it'll never happen. As the other thousand threads on this topic have stated repeatedly, the hunters know exactly what you're in and what damage type you're equipped to deal and tank just based on the local missions as well as having the aggro of the entire pocket doing more damage than you are. Honestly, killmails that include NPC damage to the victim aren't impressive in the least to anyone but the victor. It's the same as the griefers in other MMOs that camp hard mission spots because they know the victims will have a ton of NPC aggro on them helping.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:22:00 - [102] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Yes, they leave carebearland... AND EVE. You can NOT force people to play the game the way you want them to. you can take away thier ability to play the game they want, in which case they just stop playing. Okay, maybe only half quit EVE. The other half either switch to L3s or do high sec exploration or maybe switch to mining... Meanwhile, the total amount of ISK entering the game crashes and prices take another huge drop. If the WAY higher pay available for L5 missions over L4 doesn't pull people to low sec, why would the difference between L3 and L4 be enough? How does it do you any good to have people quit playing EVE?
Holdout	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:44:00 - [103] PvP'ers who want more PvE'ers to come to lowsec in their mission ships. Hmm...this sounds like...carebears? PvE mission: Maximize your ship's ability to destroy the enemy, whose weaknesses you already know. Near zero chance of dying. PvP against a PvE ship: Maximize your ship's ability to destroy the enemy, whose weaknesses you already know. Near zero chance of dying. Sound about right?
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:46:00 - [104] I was listening to the radio a while back and the host was going off about all the empty handicapped spots at the local Buy and Large store. If those 10 spots were not handicapped, then he'd have been able to park right in front instead of 100 yards (or 100 meters if you aren't a 'Merican) away. Idiot! The person that parked in the first spot next to the handicapped spot would have just parked one spot closer, and the next, and the next. 10 empty handicapped spots elimintated, and 10 rows in the parking lot... everyone moves up an average of 1 spot. Instead of 30 cars between where you parked and the front door, there would be 29 cars. "They, they need to change the law to allow few handicapped spots so that the store will make those non-Handicapped, then I can park there instead of having to walk so far." == "Move all L4s to losec and then everyone running L4s will be in low sec where I can getz me some lolz griefing them." Wrong. People running L4s have NO interest in going to losec for you to grief them. IF you put all L4s in losec, then people running L4s stop running L4s.
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:47:00 - [105] Edited by: Orakkus on 21/03/2011 20:47:49 Edited by: Orakkus on 21/03/2011 20:47:21 Hmm.. another low-sec thread. Well, if you are serious about working on low-sec, right now I have two threads working (one from the PVP side, one from the industrial side) that have been active for about a week. You can read through the responses as well as submit plans according to some guidelines that were set out. For PVP Players (Warfare & Tactics Section): http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1479725&page=6 For Industrialists (Science & Industry Section): http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1480327&page=2 This is what you might term a grass-roots initative, and right now the CSM campaigning seems to be about 0.0. Personally, I think its low-sec that needs the review. I think it can be better, I think it actually could be more fun than 0.0. Still, it is better if those who interact with it.. and, in this case, those that don't should start working towards a goal that improves low-sec in such a way that keeps the risk and challenge there, but makes it more inviting to a wider variety of players. We've drawn a deadline of the end of the month for ideas/plans to be entered. That way we can have time to review the plans, to weight the benefits and their faults. Eventually, we'll take this to the Assembly Hall and to the CSMs.. and keep it there until CCP responds. Right now, the discussion of low-sec issues is a thousand seperate voices all asking for something different. It is time to bring those voices together. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
reddot23	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:57:00 - [106] i will help you out on this pve more of us then you so and the new players that have come to game the way they see it no game out side of high sec its just not part of the game some place you play on diff server think of it like that nothing you can do .we that dont play in null are low we just say no to it if you move any part of high sec we are the players that buy time cards from game so we will have isk then . its just about not playing with you sucks dont it
Violine Ming Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:01:00 - [107] Originally by: dexington I kinda like the extra danger of doing exploration in low sec, but when it comes to profit it's not very desirable. The window of opportunity when doing exploration is not big, which leaves you with two options spend time looking for empty systems or spend time running from pirates. After some time i reach the point where it just feels like wasting time, and i should go back to hi-sec and make some isk. ^^ This. And where exactly are the "wasteland" empty losec systems? Where I attempt exploration, it is too busy to do exploration. I spend 5x the time at safe spots than I do in the complexes.
Holdout	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:20:00 - [108] Edited by: Holdout on 21/03/2011 21:22:21 Originally by: reddot23 i will help you out on this pve more of us then you so and the new players that have come to game the way they see it no game out side of high sec its just not part of the game some place you play on diff server think of it like that nothing you can do .we that dont play in null are low we just say no to it if you move any part of high sec we are the players that buy time cards from game so we will have isk then . its just about not playing with you sucks dont it 107 words 101 words with 1 syllable 6 words with 2 syllables 0 words with 3+ syllables 100% awesome.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:22:00 - [109] Originally by: Violine Ming I spend 5x the time at safe spots than I do in the complexes. Well, there's your problem. How are the pirates suppsoed to get their lolz from griefing you if you won't play along???? Don't you realize that the only reason your character exists is so that some 14 year-old can blow up your ships???
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:27:00 - [110] Originally by: Violine Ming Originally by: dexington I kinda like the extra danger of doing exploration in low sec, but when it comes to profit it's not very desirable. The window of opportunity when doing exploration is not big, which leaves you with two options spend time looking for empty systems or spend time running from pirates. After some time i reach the point where it just feels like wasting time, and i should go back to hi-sec and make some isk. ^^ This. And where exactly are the "wasteland" empty losec systems? Where I attempt exploration, it is too busy to do exploration. I spend 5x the time at safe spots than I do in the complexes. You can autopilot from Jita to the EVE gate setting AP to all lowsec systems and not encounter anyone for the majority of the trip during peak hours on a Sunday. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Obyrith	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:45:00 - [111] Edited by: Obyrith on 21/03/2011 21:47:46 Originally by: dexington I kinda like the extra danger of doing exploration in low sec, but when it comes to profit it's not very desirable. The window of opportunity when doing exploration is not big, which leaves you with two options spend time looking for empty systems or spend time running from pirates. After some time i reach the point where it just feels like wasting time, and i should go back to hi-sec and make some isk. Go to Derelik, it's statistically the least populated highsec region IIRC and the lowsec areas are far from busy. Originally by: Grohalmatar Also, making it all FW isn't a terrible idea. Do you realise how many jumps I already have to travel to do FW missions?
Baell Zan	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:27:00 - [112] Edited by: Baell Zan on 21/03/2011 22:36:51 Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Violine Ming I spend 5x the time at safe spots than I do in the complexes. Well, there's your problem. How are the pirates suppsoed to get their lolz from griefing you if you won't play along???? Don't you realize that the only reason your character exists is so that some 14 year-old can blow up your ships??? In any space universe not Eve, thousands of years in the future... Capitan Capsuler: God, this is the ninth rep trying to break the encryption on this stupid piece of rubble... Peon 1 Crew member: Yes sir, it sure can test your patience... Warning Klaxon: Brawaaaaa, Brawaaaa, Brawaaaa!!!! Capitan Capsuler: Kill that fracking alarm! Peon 1 Crew member: Yes sir! (smacks the Klaxon override) Capitan Capsuler: Status report Peon! Peon 1 Crew member: Something just came up on long range scanners (Dscan) headed our way. Capitan Capsuler: Something? What the hell is a something? I don't want to hear about "something", tell me what it is! Peon 1 Crew member: Not sure sir, refining the solution.... wait... God, it's pouring on speed... definitely looks hostile. Capitan Capsuler: **, align to Saratoga station and go for hard burn... Peon 1 Crew member: They are locking sir... Capitan Capsuler: Activate force fields (armor hardners) and fire off a jammer. (ECM drone) Peon 1 Crew member: Incoming missles... radiation sensors are off the chart... looks like nukes! Jammer's running sir... Capitan Capsuler: Damnit, why haven't we warped yet? Peon 1 Crew member: Still aligning... BOOM!!!! (missile impact, ship shudders under the impact) Peon 1 Crew member: Sheilds gone, armor at 90 percent! Capitan Capsuler: Active nanite repair bots... BOOM!!!! (missile impact, ship shudders again) Peon 1 Crew member: Sir... already running. Armor integrity 82 percent and climbing... Capitan Capsuler: Align faster damnit! Another five seconds and he'll scramble the drive... Peon 1 Crew member: (Clicks "dock" again, just to be sure) FTL spinning up sir. Two seconds... one... BOOM!!!! (missile impact, ship trembles in tortured agony, console explodes in a shower of glass and sparks rendering Peon 1's face a chest into a bloody soup.) Capitan Capsuler: (scrambles towards the backup controls and palm-smacks the warp button...) What actually happens? Too close to call and I'm not tellin... To be continued...**
Baell Zan	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:30:00 - [113] Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Violine Ming I spend 5x the time at safe spots than I do in the complexes. Well, there's your problem. How are the pirates suppsoed to get their lolz from griefing you if you won't play along???? Don't you realize that the only reason your character exists is so that some 14 year-old can blow up your ships??? Continued from previous post... Eve (scenario 1) Capitan Capsuler: God, this is the ninth rep trying to break the encryption on this stupid piece of rubble... Peon 1 Crew member: (mumbles somthing unintellible about his Captain's intelligence as he presses the hacking module's button again. His mind wanders, wishing he was in Aruba with some hot chicks...) Wheep, Wheep, Wheep... Capitan Capsuler: What's that noise Peon? Peon 1 Crew member: Oh, not much. Looks like a local piwat just locked us up... Capitan Capsuler: Wern't you cycling the local scanner (Dscan) for incoming? Goddamnit this is the second time this week! Peon 1 Crew member: Give me a fracking break "sir"! I've got carpal-tunnel from smashing that damn scanner button! Capitan Capsuler: **, align to a station and go for hard burn... Peon 1 Crew member: Too late, we're scammed... Capitan Capsuler: Activate force fields (hardners) and fire off a jammer. (ECM drone) Peon 1 Crew member: You forget, were in an exploration ship, not a battlecruiser... sir... (rolls his eyes, thinking what a dumbass his captain is.) Peon 1 Crew member: Incoming missles... (yawns as he reclines in his chair, waiting for the inevitable). Capitan Capsuler: Damnit, lock him up and return fire!!! Peon 1 Crew member: With what? A salvager? BOOM!!!! (missile impact, ship shudders under the impact) Peon 1 Crew member: Sheilds gone, armor gone... were in structure... Capitan Capsuler: Active nanite repair bots... Peon 1 Crew member: Don't have any of those eith... BOOM!!!! (missile impact, ship trembles in tortured agony, ship explodes in a glorious shower of radiation and debris.) Capitan Capsuler: (warps away in his capsule, down another ship to the local pirates.) The static of the local coms channel is broken by a man's voice, strangly adolecent and girlish in nature, laughing hysterically. Piwat: You're so lame! All your ships are belong to me!!! Muhahahahahah!!!! Lrn2PeeevVeeePeee! What happens in lowsec if you're not constantly smashing the ****ed "Scan" button. Eve (scenario 2) Capitan Capsuler: God, this is the ninth rep trying to break the encryption on this stupid piece of rubble... Peon 1 Crew member: (mumbles somthing unintellible as he grips his aching wrist and initializes the millionth scan of the local system. His mind wanders, wishing he had a hack-saw to saw off his throbbing arm...) Peon 1 Crew member: (Glances at the scan results. Starts to yawn and stops himself.) Looks like something on scan... again... Capitan Capsuler: (Yawns.) Disengage and back away from the rubble and activate the cloaking device. Peon 1 Crew member: No problem sir. (sighs in relief, thankful he gets to click on something other than "scan") Capitan Capsuler: I've got to take a leak, call me when he's off the grid. Peon 1 Crew member: (shoves his acking hand into a bucket of ice.) Yes sir... What happens in lowsec if you're "doing it right."
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:58:00 - [114] Originally by: Baell Zan Eve (scenario 1) Interesting story.... but here is the real scenario.... Pirate gate camp on high sec gate: "Dang I wish some fool carebear newb would jump through so we can kill him". Meanwhile, high sec carebear running his 4th L4 Angels Extravaganza of the day to get the ISK to buy another 1.5 billion ISK BPO because you need over a dozen of those to be able to manufacture a freighter: "Look at the ISK roll in.... If CCP got rid of this, I'd just quit this game since I have no desire what-so-ever to go to low sec and get killed by pirates." It is really 2 different games in one. Some like to PVP, and some like to PVE. You can not force the PVE'ers to PVP, so you PVP'ers need to just find a way to enjoy PVPing against the people that want to PVP and quit dreaming how many lolz they'd have if they could just force the PVE'ers to come be targets.
Jhagiti Tyran Caldari Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:09:00 - [115] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Firstly you seem to assume that there are no people running missions in lowsec when in reality there are, secondly you assume that lowsec needs fixing when in reality its fine. Thirdly I suspect this a poorly attempted troll.
Sisohiv Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:10:00 - [116] Low sec has level 4 missions with rewards higher than the ones in High sec. Nobody does them.
Baell Zan	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:10:00 - [117] Edited by: Baell Zan on 22/03/2011 00:12:32 Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Baell Zan Eve (scenario 1) Interesting story.... but here is the real scenario.... Pirate gate camp on high sec gate: "Dang I wish some fool carebear newb would jump through so we can kill him". Meanwhile, high sec carebear running his 4th L4 Angels Extravaganza of the day to get the ISK to buy another 1.5 billion ISK BPO because you need over a dozen of those to be able to manufacture a freighter: "Look at the ISK roll in.... If CCP got rid of this, I'd just quit this game since I have no desire what-so-ever to go to low sec and get killed by pirates." It is really 2 different games in one. Some like to PVP, and some like to PVE. You can not force the PVE'ers to PVP, so you PVP'ers need to just find a way to enjoy PVPing against the people that want to PVP and quit dreaming how many lolz they'd have if they could just force the PVE'ers to come be targets. I guess my point is that I like to do both. I make ISK off of PVE to finance my PVP (different toon). I wish I could combine them. I don't even mind being hunted in losec, what I do hate are the lame mechanics in the game like a "manual" scanner (how freaking lame is that?) or the PVE vs. PVP ship fits. I should be able to do PVE with a PVP-like fit so I at least stand a chance when that suppa-leet-12-year-old pirate-wanna-be jumps into my exploration site. I DON'T WANT to run or "cloak up". I'd like to fight, but I'd also like a snow-balls chance in hell of winning. IMO, he's the carebear. Can't say I blame him though, with the mechanics the way they are, he is rewarded for being one, and so am I for employing the only mechanic where I can win... hiding with my super cloak.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:38:00 - [118] Originally by: Obyrith ]Go to Derelik, it's statistically the least populated highsec region IIRC and the lowsec areas are far from busy. They don't have to be busy to be hard to use for exploration, and all it takes is one pirate who keeps scanning you down when you find a site. Of course you can bookmark the site wait a while and come back, but so can he. You can also hope he decided to clear out the site, and you can warp to another system. If he decides to just follow you around, it does not matter if you are the only two people in all of the region, he is practically going to keep you completing any sites. At that point you might as well just jump to hi-sec and explore sites there.
Esan Vartesa Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.22 01:08:00 - [119] I'll admit, after the first 2 pages of this thread it actually got interesting for a bit. Like in all the other threads about this, I see lots of either selfish or poorly thought-out ideas. But there have actually been a few that I think were on the right track. Here's my contribution... Players do missions in PvE fits, because as others pointed out they're what work best in missions. If PvP fits worked in missions, everyone would just use those. Truth is they may work, but they're the inferior tool for the job. So, why is it that when a pirate shows up in a PvP ship, it's game over for the missioner? Simply, it's because the missioner is tanking the room (barely in L5s) and so the PvPer is completely safe from the NPCs. It's a silly situation if you think about it, because the missioner is the one in a ship fitted for the situation, and it's the PvPer that should be in over his head. Problem is, the NPCs don't switch targets. Change that, and the pirate gets ****d by NPCs within 20 seconds of warping into the mission, with the missioner laughing his head off and thanking the loser for having given a brief reprieve to recharge cap. Suddenly, a mission pocket full of NPCs is the safest place for a PvE ship to be. THAT's how you make L5s in low sec interesting again.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.03.22 01:47:00 - [120] Edited by: Lady Skank on 22/03/2011 01:48:50 You all suck at making friends. Go make a small coalition of small corps then farm the hell out of level 4 and 5 missions and laugh at the kind of ISK high sec carebears make grinding them in high sec. And yes this does happen and yes they use shiny ships so they make a lot more loyalty points than carebears do, level 4s bring in 25% or so more and a single lvl 5 (which are soloable btw) can bring in 80,000 loyalty points in less than 10 minutes. What you really thought macro mission runners where crashing the LP markets?
Baell Zan	Posted - 2011.03.22 02:59:00 - [121] Originally by: Lady Skank Edited by: Lady Skank on 22/03/2011 01:48:50 You all suck at making friends. Go make a small coalition of small corps then farm the hell out of level 4 and 5 missions and laugh at the kind of ISK high sec carebears make grinding them in high sec. And yes this does happen and yes they use shiny ships so they make a lot more loyalty nullpoints than carebears do, level 4s bring in 25% or so more and a single lvl 5 (which are soloable btw) can bring in 80,000 loyalty points in less than 10 minutes What you really thought macro mission runners where crashing the LP markets? Naw, just resubbed after a couple year hiatus. Corp disbanded during my leave. I'm broke and have been doing some exploration to pad the wallet.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.22 03:46:00 - [122] Edited by: dexington on 22/03/2011 03:46:41 Originally by: Lady Skank Go make a small coalition of small corps then farm the hell out of level 4 and 5 missions and laugh at the kind of ISK high sec carebears make grinding them in high sec. And yes this does happen and yes they use shiny ships so they make a lot more loyalty points than carebears do, level 4s bring in 25% or so more and a single lvl 5 (which are soloable btw) can bring in 80,000 loyalty points in less than 10 minutes. Two people are not going to blitz level 4 missions much faster then one person can, except from the longer "full clear" mission, even with 25% extra LP the profit is pretty much gone with two players sharing the LP.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:37:00 - [123] Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 22/03/2011 03:46:41 Originally by: Lady Skank Go make a small coalition of small corps then farm the hell out of level 4 and 5 missions and laugh at the kind of ISK high sec carebears make grinding them in high sec. And yes this does happen and yes they use shiny ships so they make a lot more loyalty points than carebears do, level 4s bring in 25% or so more and a single lvl 5 (which are soloable btw) can bring in 80,000 loyalty points in less than 10 minutes. Two people are not going to blitz level 4 missions much faster then one person can, except from the longer "full clear" mission, even with 25% extra LP the profit is pretty much gone with two players sharing the LP. You still don't get it do you? stop thinking with your high sec care bears brain and understand that the point of banding together isn't to run the missions any faster but to lock down the local area and when threats/targets come around the pirates take of their mission running hats and put on their pvp hats, they run missions individually but as soon as someone comes scanning/dropping probes or they see a juicy target travelling through the PVE ships get docked up and gangs are quickly formed. So while scrubs in high sec get their crappy payouts the ebil pirates are making much more isk and get to gank stuff to.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:07:00 - [124] Originally by: Lady Skank You still don't get it do you? stop thinking with your high sec care bears brain and understand that the point of banding together isn't to run the missions any faster but to lock down the local area and when threats/targets come around the pirates take of their mission running hats and put on their pvp hats, they run missions individually but as soon as someone comes scanning/dropping probes or they see a juicy target travelling through the PVE ships get docked up and gangs are quickly formed. So while scrubs in high sec get their crappy payouts the ebil pirates are making much more isk and get to gank stuff to. Don't L4 missions in low sec work just like in hi sec, where you can't be sure to get the mission in the same system as the agent. If so the group would be spread out over multiple systems, and most likely you would not be able to just switch between pvp and pve ships.
sableye principle of motion	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:13:00 - [125] I don;t think level 4's should be removed from high security maybe in hindsight it would have been better if they were there from the begging but they been in empire for took long and it would afefct too many's game play. I do feel though that LP should be changed though 1.0 to 0.5 systems should all give the same lp and not much at all maybe 10% of what you get now and then low security/0/0 should give you about 5-6 times as much as now so its a real incentive to run missiosn there, right now in a 0.5 system I get pretty godo lp and don;t get much more for going into low sec even then options are limited as you need 0.0/0.1 for real gains and so few agents about. They coudl also maybe do the same type of things with mission rewards/bonuses. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:24:00 - [126] ******ed idea Plenty of reasons to leave hisec already, people are just too stupid to figure it out. Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:30:00 - [127] Edited by: Lady Skank on 22/03/2011 16:30:21 Originally by: dexington Originally by: Lady Skank You still don't get it do you? stop thinking with your high sec care bears brain and understand that the point of banding together isn't to run the missions any faster but to lock down the local area and when threats/targets come around the pirates take of their mission running hats and put on their pvp hats, they run missions individually but as soon as someone comes scanning/dropping probes or they see a juicy target travelling through the PVE ships get docked up and gangs are quickly formed. So while scrubs in high sec get their crappy payouts the ebil pirates are making much more isk and get to gank stuff to. Don't L4 missions in low sec work just like in hi sec, where you can't be sure to get the mission in the same system as the agent. If so the group would be spread out over multiple systems, and most likely you would not be able to just switch between pvp and pve ships. Its not hard to say on coms "hey someone has probes out" and for several of his buddies to form on the gate to wait for the prober to show up in the mission and the same goes for stuff traveling through, believe it or don't believe it but if you want proof go and check systems like Murethand and Barleguet and the surrounding systems and see mission running carriers in nearly every system as well as T3s and faction BS. You doubt because of your fear, your fear of lowsec makes you create excuse after excuse why its not possible when regions like Solitude and Aridia are packed full of mission runners making far more ISK than anyone doing any PVE activity in empire can dream of (yes even incursions cant compete) I know because of experience and the fact that I farm the **** out of it myself.
Baell Zan	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:40:00 - [128] Originally by: Copine Callmeknau ******ed idea Plenty of reasons to leave hisec already, people are just too stupid to figure it out. I'll bite. Enlighten us. While I do not like the idea either, I'd be much more interested in a reply that attempts to discuss\inform. I've found two through brute force curiosity, both of which are marginal. 1) Exploration: as stated before, you spend entirely too much time pressing "Scan" and\or holed up in a safe with your "supa-cloak" running to be either fun or profitable. This is marginally better on weeknights vs. the weekend. I'd say on weeknights I spend 50% of my time holed up vs. 70% on the weekends. I could double (or more) my ISK just doing lvl4s in hisec. Now as someone else pointed out, there are less populated losec systems that may improve this equation and I intend to seek them out, though I have my doubts as using the map statistics, my losec area IS depopulated. It only takes a single player to force a safe. 2) Plexes: pretty much the same as above. My PVE fit ship doesn't stand a chance against intruders even discounting the fact that I'm tanking the NPCs. Again, just to be clear... I'm not talking about PvP. I have to do something to pay for my PvP.
wh hunter kellar	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:56:00 - [129] Edited by: wh hunter kellar on 22/03/2011 16:56:55 now boys and girls!!! Do you really think I'll be doing levels 4 in my pimped out Navy issue ships or my marauders in low sec? I don't need the isk, I do level 4s for the lovely salvage and futhermore, I've never had a ninja bunghole or cornholio ranger ever in my missions. But you're all more than welcome to try because I'll just go afk cloaky on your butts and watch the rats give you the kiss of death. You take away the carebears and you're all going to have to stop training for Fighters Bombers 5 and learn how to build tech 2s,tech 3s, caps, ammo, regular ships and mods. same goes for the carebears, they need us to epicly die in those shiny stuffz and build more shiny stuffz. so ccp needs to leave level 4s in hi sec, too. Level 5s can be in null and low sec. don't be scared.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:04:00 - [130] Originally by: Lady Skank You doubt because of your fear, your fear of lowsec makes you create excuse after excuse why its not possible when regions like Solitude and Aridia are packed full of mission runners making far more ISK than anyone doing any PVE activity in empire can dream of (yes even incursions cant compete) I know because of experience and the fact that I farm the **** out of it myself. I don't fear low sec, i just don't believe your plan is as solid in reality as it is on paper. Defending against pirates is decreasing the time spend doing missions, if you are doing it for profit you can't afford to lose many missions pr hour. Personally i find that missions and pvp is hard to combine with my play style, i tab out of game a lot when doing missions and i chat with friends etc. I don't even mainly do missions, i much more into exploration. I've tried some low sec exploration, but i've never been able to make a larger profit then in hi sec, so it's mostly something i just for fun in low sec. Low sec is good if you can combine pve and pve with the way you play eve, or just is the kind of person that needs to get the highest possible isk/h rate while running missions. If you take pve a little more casual, then low sec don't have a lot to offer. The extra risk involved in being in low sec can be fun from time to time, but it's not the same as being willing to spend every living second there.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:23:00 - [131] Originally by: dexington Originally by: Lady Skank You doubt because of your fear, your fear of lowsec makes you create excuse after excuse why its not possible when regions like Solitude and Aridia are packed full of mission runners making far more ISK than anyone doing any PVE activity in empire can dream of (yes even incursions cant compete) I know because of experience and the fact that I farm the **** out of it myself. I don't fear low sec, i just don't believe your plan is as solid in reality as it is on paper. Defending against pirates is decreasing the time spend doing missions, if you are doing it for profit you can't afford to lose many missions pr hour. Personally i find that missions and pvp is hard to combine with my play style, i tab out of game a lot when doing missions and i chat with friends etc. I don't even mainly do missions, i much more into exploration. I've tried some low sec exploration, but i've never been able to make a larger profit then in hi sec, so it's mostly something i just for fun in low sec. Low sec is good if you can combine pve and pve with the way you play eve, or just is the kind of person that needs to get the highest possible isk/h rate while running missions. If you take pve a little more casual, then low sec don't have a lot to offer. The extra risk involved in being in low sec can be fun from time to time, but it's not the same as being willing to spend every living second there. I did not post a plan this is actually happening right now as I type this post and as you read it and has been happening for at least two years (that I know about) Also they are not defending against pirates they are the pirates, how else do you think those flashy reds get those cap fleets and can throw billions of ISK at pimped out pirate BS and Super carriers? ISK per hour doesn't matter when you can earn 80,000 Loyalty points in ten minutes, and exploration is generally chump change compared to the mission running because why mess about flying from system to system in the hope of finding a single site that if you are lucky will net you 200m tops when you can get mission>kill a handful of rats in 10mins>get 80k LP?
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:33:00 - [132] And people get 480K lp/h blitzing L5 mission in carriers?
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:49:00 - [133] Edited by: Lady Skank on 22/03/2011 17:50:53 Unless they get unlucky with the supposedly random mission generator they can, like I said do people really believe macro mission runners are the cause of LP devaluation? why do you think the implant market crashes inexplicably every few weeks? it happens because people dump several million LP into +4 and +5 implants at a time. Go check the market movements of those implants for confirmation.
Meissa Anunthiel Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2011.03.22 19:02:00 - [134] Originally by: Ariz Black Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Sorry, but no. Coercing people into doing something they don't want won't work. For people to go to lowsec you have to give them reason to go there. Improving the risk vs reward is definitely in order, but not by bashing empire. I live in lowsec, I have every interest in seeing it more populated, but not at that cost. If you support that point of view, feel free to vote for me for CSM btw: http://www.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=396 ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5. Running for CSM 6 http://www.rooksandkings.com/meissa/ Click here to vote for me!
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:59:00 - [135] Originally by: Baell Zan Originally by: Copine Callmeknau ******ed idea Plenty of reasons to leave hisec already, people are just too stupid to figure it out. I'll bite. Enlighten us. While I do not like the idea either, I'd be much more interested in a reply that attempts to discuss\inform. I've found two through brute force curiosity, both of which are marginal. 1) Exploration: as stated before, you spend entirely too much time pressing "Scan" and\or holed up in a safe with your "supa-cloak" running to be either fun or profitable. This is marginally better on weeknights vs. the weekend. I'd say on weeknights I spend 50% of my time holed up vs. 70% on the weekends. I could double (or more) my ISK just doing lvl4s in hisec. Now as someone else pointed out, there are less populated losec systems that may improve this equation and I intend to seek them out, though I have my doubts as using the map statistics, my losec area IS depopulated. It only takes a single player to force a safe. 2) Plexes: pretty much the same as above. My PVE fit ship doesn't stand a chance against intruders even discounting the fact that I'm tanking the NPCs. Again, just to be clear... I'm not talking about PvP. I have to do something to pay for my PvP. Pure and simple? L5 missions, you will make 10x what you make in hisec, I know I do. Also I find PvP to be fairly profitable, dunno why you rule it out :p Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Sandrestal	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:17:00 - [136] Originally by: Ariz Black Make low sec missions unscannable. Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland. Fixed it for you.
Josefius Gallente JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:21:00 - [137] Edited by: Josefius on 23/03/2011 13:23:02 I have an idea to fix lowsec, make it so people with high standings don't take a hit from killing low standings people in lowsec and even highsec even. Or if that's a problem, make a system that could tie in with the bounty system like with Faction Warfare, like maybe a Concord militia, you would have to have +5.0 standings. That get a lot more people to roam lowsec. Because as it is, anti-pirates will eventually have as bad standings as the criminals. The system is broken.
Karl Planck Walt Disney Productions	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:44:00 - [138] Originally by: Josefius Edited by: Josefius on 23/03/2011 13:31:26 I have an idea to fix lowsec, make it so people with high standings don't take a hit from killing low standings people in lowsec and even highsec even. Or if that's a problem, make a system that could tie in with the bounty system like with Faction Warfare, like maybe a Concord militia, you would have to have +5.0 standings. That would get a lot more people to roam lowsec. Because as it is, anti-pirates will eventually have as bad standings as the criminals. The system is broken. An more detailed idea of this sort has already been proposed (long ago). Look up the Corruption idea ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Charlemang Zizek	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:45:00 - [139] Fix Prilosec.
Diesel47	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:52:00 - [140] Nerf Hi-sec so that you can only run level 1 and 2 missions and buy stuff.
Sandrestal	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:02:00 - [141] Originally by: Diesel47 Nerf Hi-sec so that you can only run level 1 and 2 missions and buy stuff. Understand this...no one will ever come to low sec to run missions as long as they are scannable. Do as you propose and the high sec mission runners in their expensive ships will simply leave the game. CCP understands this. Unfortunately there are people that are as blindingly ignorant as you that think you can somehow "force" people to do what they don't want.
Josefius Gallente JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:17:00 - [142] Originally by: Karl Planck Originally by: Josefius Edited by: Josefius on 23/03/2011 13:31:26 I have an idea to fix lowsec, make it so people with high standings don't take a hit from killing low standings people in lowsec and even highsec even. Or if that's a problem, make a system that could tie in with the bounty system like with Faction Warfare, like maybe a Concord militia, you would have to have +5.0 standings. That would get a lot more people to roam lowsec. Because as it is, anti-pirates will eventually have as bad standings as the criminals. The system is broken. An more detailed idea of this sort has already been proposed (long ago). Look up the Corruption idea Love this idea, I think it will tie in well with mine: Star Wars Galaxies got everyone all excited about smuggling but Sony Online never did anything with the class and it was a disaster. EVE has pirates and 'anti-pirates' but they don't really have anything to fight over, or do. Why don't we try to make Lowsec unique? Give it a reason to be there, turn it into a hive of scum and villany, a focus for criminality. A unique resource for it, some items that can only be used there?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:28:00 - [143] Originally by: Esan Vartesa I'll admit, after the first 2 pages of this thread it actually got interesting for a bit. Like in all the other threads about this, I see lots of either selfish or poorly thought-out ideas. But there have actually been a few that I think were on the right track. Here's my contribution... Players do missions in PvE fits, because as others pointed out they're what work best in missions. If PvP fits worked in missions, everyone would just use those. Truth is they may work, but they're the inferior tool for the job. So, why is it that when a pirate shows up in a PvP ship, it's game over for the missioner? Simply, it's because the missioner is tanking the room (barely in L5s) and so the PvPer is completely safe from the NPCs. It's a silly situation if you think about it, because the missioner is the one in a ship fitted for the situation, and it's the PvPer that should be in over his head. Problem is, the NPCs don't switch targets. Change that, and the pirate gets ****d by NPCs within 20 seconds of warping into the mission, with the missioner laughing his head off and thanking the loser for having given a brief reprieve to recharge cap. Suddenly, a mission pocket full of NPCs is the safest place for a PvE ship to be. THAT's how you make L5s in low sec interesting again. That would work until pirates learned to send in a pod / cloaked ship and wait for the room to be clear before jumping on the mission runner.
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:33:00 - [144] CCP has over the years made low sec as tempting (in regards to possible rewards) as possible to high sec huggers. Though a few (mostly inexperienced) players get sucked in (like a Venus Flytrap) to low sec for a shot at these rewards for the most part the only thing that changes is the pocketbooks of the pirates who roam low sec. The risk is too great for those who currently reside strictly in high sec. No intelligent person is going to low sec purely to be cannon fodder for others. With HICs, fast locking gate camps, fast locking station camps, scan probes...Well the deck is stacked in the pirates favor. Low Sec needs to be balanced in regards to it's lawful/unlawful nature. In the end both sides will get more of what they want. Unless the pirates just want to shoot each other in low sec, which is fine by me.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:44:00 - [145] Originally by: Lady Skank Also they are not defending against pirates they are the pirates, how else do you think those flashy reds get those cap fleets and can throw billions of ISK at pimped out pirate BS and Super carriers? Nice attempt, Lady Skank, nice attempt. I just feel you might have a hard time getting your message through to people on both side of the fence that either think if you do missions, you NEED to make as much ISK per hour as possible, or if you gank people, you NEED to have the highest score on the killboard. The mere thought of just doing the activity that is fitting for whatever the current situation is has seemingly never crossed their mind. Sure, doing PvP in a PvE fit is proberly not a good idea. That is why you either change ship or, better yet, use your PvE ship as bait. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:52:00 - [146] Originally by: Mighty Dread CCP has over the years made low sec as tempting (in regards to possible rewards) as possible to high sec huggers. Though a few (mostly inexperienced) players get sucked in (like a Venus Flytrap) to low sec for a shot at these rewards for the most part the only thing that changes is the pocketbooks of the pirates who roam low sec. The risk is too great for those who currently reside strictly in high sec. No intelligent person is going to low sec purely to be cannon fodder for others. With HICs, fast locking gate camps, fast locking station camps, scan probes...Well the deck is stacked in the pirates favor. Low Sec needs to be balanced in regards to it's lawful/unlawful nature. In the end both sides will get more of what they want. Unless the pirates just want to shoot each other in low sec, which is fine by me. That pretty summarizes all. Plus we should bear in mind how a high grade mission ship is a very specialized & expensive tool with a deadly weakness to PvP. The average mission runner Marauder tantamounts to some 100-200 hours of mission running. Who would endanger such a time-costing machine in a place where the only defense is not being seen yet there is nowhere to hide? It's amusing to see how it was CCP who murdered lowsec after all. But now it's too late to just undo the damage. If missions no longer could be scanned, gates & stations still would be deadly traps...
Josefius Gallente JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:55:00 - [147] Originally by: Mighty Dread Low Sec needs to be balanced in regards to it's lawful/unlawful nature. In the end both sides will get more of what they want. Unless the pirates just want to shoot each other in low sec, which is fine by me. Yes, standings needs to be fixed at least in lowsec where Concord doesn't go. Should have a scaling penalty (or no penalty) for shooting someone with low standings compared to your high standings, especially if they have a bounty.
Mensche	Posted - 2011.03.23 15:24:00 - [148] Maybe level 5 missions should be revamped to reflect lowsec instead of just throwing more npcs into level 4 to make them harder. Instead of getting a fleet to come out to faces tens of battleships, change them so that the npc fly pvp ships and have really good AI, then you'll have to meet them in pvp ships. Then if pirates show up to gank your mission ship, you're already ready to meet them. If you also change it so that if you're in the mission room and not in the fleet of the owning player, there's no sec hit. Then we'll see pirate hunters diliberately baiting in pirates into missions :)
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.03.23 17:15:00 - [149] Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 23/03/2011 17:21:03 Originally by: Mensche Maybe level 5 missions should be revamped to reflect lowsec instead of just throwing more npcs into level 4 to make them harder. Instead of getting a fleet to come out to faces tens of battleships, change them so that the npc fly pvp ships and have really good AI, then you'll have to meet them in pvp ships. Then if pirates show up to gank your mission ship, you're already ready to meet them. If you also change it so that if you're in the mission room and not in the fleet of the owning player, there's no sec hit. Then we'll see pirate hunters diliberately baiting in pirates into missions :) Yep, but go further, revamp all NPC sips to be running a PvP fit. Use meta items to vary the difficulty, don't improve the AI much or it'll become too difficult. Increase the bounties so mission runners don't get nerfed. Reason this would help lowsec, is that players will now be accustomed to flying in a PvP style fight, there wouldn't be so much fear about going into lowsec. You'd also stop the flood of meta items on the market, prices's would go back up, and the T1 market would become viable again, as well as bringing a bit of fun back into seeing a meta item in your loot. Oh and much less lag ofc, no need for loot table anymore, more realism (ewar working on NPC's), bridges the main gap between PvE and PvP. edit: Before people jump in with it being too difficult etc etc, well you can just use all ships, I mean some mish carry noobships already, I'm sure a fleet of 20 ibis' aren't too scary to you guys :p I'd also set the skill lvl of normal rats to lvl 3, maybe the elite rats (dire, guardian, arch etc) set to skills @ lvl 4, and the officers and commanders (dread guristas etc), set to all lvl 5. Have rats actually mining in belts and mission asteroids to provide industrial items to the market. Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Centri Sixx	Posted - 2011.03.23 18:09:00 - [150] They did mission in PvP fits though, and ones that even require a large enough amount of members to dissuade lone pirates. It's called incursion, and it hasn't really drawn that many to lowsec that weren't already there. The thing about the "lowsec is fine" crowd is that it only is fine if it ISN'T populated. They can only do level 5s because there are maybe 3 small corps in the mission hub and they are more focused on gate ganking lone players. Even in FW systems most players are afk in stations or spread out widely enough to make it easy to do so. So there is a huge push not to fix it from the residents because they know that they wont be able to make money or transport goods if the population jumps. Lowsec is only workable through obscurity, and that's going to prevent any real changes to it.
Gorongo Frostfyr Shimohi Heavy Industries	Posted - 2011.03.23 18:16:00 - [151] tl;dr, but dont fix lowsec, fix the whole game :/ _________________ Lost in a realm of eternal ice on the threshold of eternity.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.23 21:44:00 - [152] Originally by: Mensche Maybe level 5 missions should be revamped to reflect lowsec instead of just throwing more npcs into level 4 to make them harder. Instead of getting a fleet to come out to faces tens of battleships, change them so that the npc fly pvp ships and have really good AI, then you'll have to meet them in pvp ships. Then if pirates show up to gank your mission ship, you're already ready to meet them. If you also change it so that if you're in the mission room and not in the fleet of the owning player, there's no sec hit. Then we'll see pirate hunters diliberately baiting in pirates into missions :) I already suggested this, with a difference, only lowsec missions, and only some of them, would require such PvP fit. So the average mission runner would be getting mostly PvE in mostly hisec, with a chance to get a PvP mission in lowsec. There is no reason to kill PvE fits as they fill a role, namely they make the missions last longer, which means the isk/hour is within a established limit. A continuous stream of PvP missions doable in 5 minutes would disbalance the isk/hour unless thye were so poorly payed that they weren't interestign enough to take the chance. PvP missions should be like "get in, kill the bad guy in 5 minutes and get 10 million iskies before ninja gankers track you down".
Musashi IV	Posted - 2011.03.23 22:57:00 - [153] Poor little pirate cant find any ships to shoot.

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