EVE Search - CCP - Did you miss the fanfest round table for FW?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

CCP - Did you miss the fanfest round table for FW?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 10:48:00 - [1] I have a question for CCP. Did you miss the round table at Fan Fest for Faction Warfare? I ask this as a corp mate who attended has just told me no one from CCP turned up. Only the players with an interest in FW were there. He also said that devs changed the topic when it was brought up with them. He also said that the previous CSM was unable to bring the topic up successfully (again CCP did not want to know - the devs evaded the topic) Whilst I would like to see improvements to FW mechanics, I accept that these will not be 5 minutes of coding to achieve. What I DO want to know is if CCP has given up on FW so much that they don't (allegedly) even turn up to their own organised event. For those who don't know about the state of FW - people are leaving Faction Warfare at the moment as it has purely become a source of easy LP for many people. They only join to get the missions and farm the LP. Stealth Bombers are hard to catch on gates, so they are relatively safe to fly, allowing FW to be almost as safe as regular L4 missions in high sec, with much higher payout. As such, carebears are cashing in massive amounts of LP for faction modules and other kit. FW should be first and foremost about PvP
Muad 'dib Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.03.29 10:52:00 - [2] I too would be very interested to hear anything at all new on the fw development front. Meep Meep!
Internetz Spaceship	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:01:00 - [3] I agree, better than keeping a broken feature that they don't like, why not fixing it?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 29/03/2011 11:11:09 I think that CCP have already made it clear that they couldn't care less about fixing FW, so this comes as no surprise to me Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Allant Doran Amarr Locus Industries	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:13:00 - [5] Imagine if the only way to get LP in FW was by killing members of the opposite faction. Sadly, it's basically just hisec missioning in smaller ships. I'm looking to leave it myself in the near future, i don't even want to stay for the LP/ISK from the missions, it's just boring.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:31:00 - [6] I would encourage everyone who would like to know the answer to this question to show their support in this thread - even if you are not in FW as there is a more fundamental issue that potentially is at stake here.
lord torak 24th Doom Crusade	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:44:00 - [7] I too was at this round table, and was annoyed that a rep from CCP didn't turn up. Props to the guy that stayed and took the points down that we talked about, at least they have a chance of being looked at. When i told one dev. that i was flying with the militia his response was "oh wow, people still play faction warfare?" Hearing this doesn't give me great hope that these points will be heard, but this wont stop me trying. Cheers Ben
Cosmic Raider Capitalist Pig Running Dogs	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:50:00 - [8] Your mistake was thinking that CCP cares about FW.
Grimfang Wyrmspawn	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:54:00 - [9] CCP Rep didn't even bother to turn up? Not a huge surprise. FW needs a major overhaul and this confirms it just ain't going to happen. Which is disappointing. Confirms for me my decision to leave the militia.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 11:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Cosmic Raider Your mistake was thinking that CCP cares about FW. I never said they cared - I asked if they bothered to turn up to one of the round table events that they organised.

Condor Amarr Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:05:00 - [11] This doesn't surprise me at all. With the complete lack of any attention that FW has received, it is painfully obvious that CCP would rather invest their time and resources into..... well, pretty much anything other than FW. :Thumbs up: Way to go CCP, you continue to impress. -------------
Muad 'dib Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:10:00 - [12] ccp would look at the numbers online for the fw's and say that it represents a small portion of the population and desirves a small portion of manpower to its development. fact is fw is fun and could be alot more fun which would attract more players if it had some good features and mechanics. ccp you PROVED that fw is a good idea, and the thousands of chars involved in it support that. So take a good underdeveloped idea and make it great. Meep Meep!
Alexon Moores	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:28:00 - [13] it think that CCP is focused on what was shown on Future Vision video. It seems like they want to get us out of our ships and walking around. I just hope that does not become so involved that there is a mass leaving. it looks like a lot of attention is being focused on Dust and making the sandbox conform to that. I could be wrong.
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:41:00 - [14] There a lot of player that been in fw now leaving. If ccp dont want this anymore. Just end the war. fw is over. Stealth Bombers mission runners and easy lp. fw is pretty much dead now days i am sorry to say. Had 1 of my guys travel all the way to fan fest, he comes back, he said ccp does not care about fw and is now leaving corp. i have flown with this guy for 5 years. that how bad it getting. mend it or end it
Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:54:00 - [15] Don't worry FW is being "iterated" upon. Like PI and the other 43 features that CCP all threw into the game any which way and promised to later improve upon. It will be released right after they introduce atmospheric battles/walking on planets/orbital bombardment.
Telvani	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:55:00 - [16] My favourite time in eve was the first 6-12months or so of FW, when there were decent corps and FCs and good fleet / roaming PVP. The reason few people bother is because it is broken. CCP need to either remove or fix it, leaving it in its current state is just pointless. Personally I'd much rather they put a bit of effort into making it playable again.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:57:00 - [17] It has been over two years ladies and all we have gotten are new bugs and old bugs squashed. Do you really think that they care? If they did indeed a round-table planned and only bothered to send a scribe then I fear there is no hope. Not only are we being ignored, but we are now well and truly abandoned.
Baihuigau Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:30:00 - [18] Lol their not going to touch FW with a 10th foot pole, its just going to die off, i mean i remember last year or the year before that the big thing for ccp was a industrial expansion with comet mining, dynamic asteroid belts, system wide mining, even somekind of buldozer drone for industrialists and since then nothing not a peep..........ccp is like a little kid they see shiny things start working on it, but then see something shinier and start working on that instead, besides incarna is their priority anyways......funny just realized in 9 years of eve the only thing that has changed in mining was barges, rocqal and orca, mining mechanics still the same, fw either will stay the same or they will take it out of the game, its a nice feature but badly implemented.
Liorah	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:52:00 - [19] To read the Chronicles, you'd think that the Empires were really at war. To play the game, "War? What's war?" FW seemed bolted on, yet they never even tightened the screws. It's a shame that it has degraded into Mission-runner heaven :(
Baihuigau Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:40:00 - [20] They could always get rid of fw missions and use the incursion mechanics in fw space, get fw players to have to defend it but keep the pvp flag on like they have in fw now so that lets say amar supporters can help their incursion in the minie territory and vice versa, get rid of missions and their stupid capture the flag mechanic they have now.

Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:08:00 - [21] We all have ideas on how to change fw. BUT CCP did not want to listen at there own round table meeting That's the joke about the whole thing.
Skaarl	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Cosmic Raider Your mistake was thinking that CCP cares about EVE. there fixed it for you.
Shalee Lianne Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.03.29 18:21:00 - [23] Faction War has the potential to be so much better, it is a shame that no one at CCP realizes that. There are plenty of paying customers who still do play FW, and our opinions should matter too.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.03.29 18:40:00 - [24] Edited by: Mutnin on 29/03/2011 18:46:38 Originally by: Allant Doran Imagine if the only way to get LP in FW was by killing members of the opposite faction. Sadly, it's basically just hisec missioning in smaller ships. I'm looking to leave it myself in the near future, i don't even want to stay for the LP/ISK from the missions, it's just boring. Umm yea.. people would farm LP's by killing their alts or better yet do nothing but sit on stations or gates all day with insta lock canes & thrashers.. Oh wai.. seems half of that has already come true... As for CCP not caring.. what else is new. TBH, I was amazed they even spent 5 mins on FW revamping the whole mission thing. It's kinda clear they have no real interest in it. CCP is more interested in space barbie dolls and care bears than worrying about random PVP.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.29 18:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Shalee Lianne Faction War has the potential to be so much better, it is a shame that no one at CCP realizes that. There are plenty of paying customers who still do play FW, and our opinions should matter too. CCP is intentionally and knowingly **ing over 60% of 0.0, and a lot more people live there than do FW. Why do you think they'd give a about FW? As long as people keep coming to market-fest, and keep living in marketable alliances that keep having their marketable super-cap battles, and Jita has a marketable population cap, CCP's going to keep working on their marketable bull without ever worrying about destroying the time and effort the players have put in to making what would otherwise be a ty game awesome. The message I got from fanfest was that anyone in the company who cares about the players are not decision makers. The decision makers have thoroughly communicated that "we are in it for the money. We are doing things our way no matter how badly it breaks the game experience. and if you don't like it, ** off."
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.29 19:07:00 - [26] Nobody showed? Ouch! To be fair, in June 2010 CCP said it would be 18 months. I know that sucks for us in fw but the truth isn't always what one wants to hear. I think fw is still the best thing in eve. I hope the occupancy plexing gets fixed. But that likely won't happen until incarna is out the door. They probably didn't have much to say about it because they aren't working on it. If you worked at CCP would you want to sit at that table? I don't blame them. But they could have at least threw a new guy in the chair, stepped back and watched. We made it halfway through the nine months. If you like other things in eve better go do them. I do think we will see a pretty substantial change to occupancy plexing in the summer or winter of 2012. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:17:00 - [27] Just woke up - glad to see more people have shown an interest in this matter. Disappointed that no CCP comment has been received...
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:21:00 - [28] For the record: Apparently also no dev went to the golden circle tour like stated. At least I didn't spot one nor did I hear from anyone who was with one. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Mini McFly	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:25:00 - [29] Having unsubscribed and resubscribe hoping that game play has improved. I am disappointed to be honest. Faction Warfare was excellent small gang pvp to start. Now, it has become just another gotten feature of the game which will never get any attention. Face it. Faction Warfare is a dead horse. CCP is more interested in the new player experience, space book, etc.. It will become a revolving door like WoW and the other big MMO. The die hard pvp pilot will simple move on to other competitive MMO.
Lt Angus Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:30:00 - [30] Tried FW on my alt last week, really sad how downhill its gone and it wasnt great to start with. Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers

Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:58:00 - [31] Well, CCP? ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard
Calypso Carnai	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:20:00 - [32] I have to admit I am concerned that CCP allegedly didn't show up to their own roundtable. Have we had any confirmation from CCP that this happened or is it all hush-hush? It would be nice to see more FW. Surely with all the emphasis on Dust, FW would be a perfect fit? I imagine console FPS players would enjoy having the option of being more directly allied with Empire factions.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:22:00 - [33] I don't think CCP's going to respond here. I think they prefer FW be unofficially abandonware than official. Yup, time find your FW exploits hacks and tricks, because CCP's abandoned it.
Kuan Yida Minmatar Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:26:00 - [34] As broken as it is, I've stayed in faction war for the small gang PvP, though it seems that's harder and harder to find. Spent a few hours last night and all we got were a few lousy Arbitrator kills... But, killing war targets and low sec pirates is still more interesting than endlessly flying around or camping gates in null sec looking for a fight. http://kuanyida.tumblr.com/
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:28:00 - [35] Originally by: mkmin I don't think CCP's going to respond here. I think they prefer FW be unofficially abandonware than official. Yup, time find your FW exploits hacks and tricks, because CCP's abandoned it. Would undertaking said hacks and tricks be considered an exploit at that point then since CCP seem to have given up on it??? Now there is an interesting point of discussion...
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:47:00 - [36] FW the best PvP in the game. Dynamic with many places to fight besides gates and stations. Completely abandon the day of release. After lagging lowsec to death we logged countless hours of lowsec to determine where desync was. CCP then spent a week or 2 fixing this general desync which effected all players. Since then not one single hour of dev time has been spent on this major expansion. Dead. PI = same fate. Incusion = same fate. DUST = same fate. CCP are only interested in how many new customers the marketing hype for the next expansion can bring. **** you CCP.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:57:00 - [37] Originally by: mkmin As long as people keep coming to market-fest, and keep living in marketable alliances that keep having their marketable super-cap battles, and Jita has a marketable population cap, CCP's going to keep working on their marketable bull** without ever worrying about destroying the time and effort the players have put in to making what would otherwise be a ty game awesome. The message I got from fanfest was that anyone in the company who cares about the players are not decision makers. The decision makers have thoroughly communicated that "we are in it for the money. We are doing things our way no matter how badly it breaks the game experience. and if you don't like it, ** off." Sad but true. The CCP we knew is good as dead.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.03.30 00:42:00 - [38] Disappointing. Expected, but still disappointing.
Mekhana Gallente Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.03.30 00:49:00 - [39] Thanks CCP. =/
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.30 00:51:00 - [40] Edited by: Burseg Sardaukar on 30/03/2011 00:53:21 Lol. Edit: I got more face-time with a dev at a ragtag, last-minute bar gathering in Boston than you did at CCP headquarters during a scheduled panel.

Hot Tubes Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.30 01:07:00 - [41] The only way they could have topped this is if everyone had filed into the room and after waiting 15 minutes or so for a dev to show up, they walked up to the table at the front of the room, only to find a single piece of paper on which was written: "All navy battleships and navy cap boosters will now be available in the normal LP stores. Yours, CCP"
Muad 'dib Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.03.30 02:07:00 - [42] ive got my fingers crossed and hope that dev greyscales plan to align 0.0 systems more toward their true 1.0 sec (boost to the good system nerf to all else.) will trigger an influx of players who can pvp when they need to but alot like to pve for goo isk when they can and drive them back into FW. If ccp change anything for the better in fw, in the same patch, things could get alot more livly :) like i sed at the start, figers crossed Meep Meep!
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.30 02:21:00 - [43] I know that it's just political however lets just explain the issue again in-case they missed it. * Plex spawnning mechanic is broken. For the first 3h after downtime it is possible to plex PvP. This is the most dynamic form of PvP in the Eve universe. Imbalances between gangs can be mitigated by the use of plex and many fights per night can always be found. Soon after the mechanic breaks and no more plex spawn in target systems until the next downtime. Result: FW only works for 2-3h our of 23h. Most players have never seen this working and think plexing is PvE. * NPC ewar. In both combat zones one race can be farmed with frigs while the other makes this impossible. This contributes to the lack of plex to be closed in order to force respawns. Result: Only 1 side can effectively close hostile plex in attempts to control the broken spawning. Investigate. Spend at least 1h/yr please. Fix. I'm sure there are some very minor adjustments that will fix this in short order. If you can't work out the spawning code then maybe just post details on how it works and we'll fix the logic for you. **** WHITEWOLF
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 02:34:00 - [44] Well, so far I am seeing decent support from people who obviously love FW and want it and are frustrated about how things currently stand. Still no word from CCP on why they (allegedly) failed to attent the round table. I'm sure I am not the only person who was hoping that the round table MAY have been enought to give FW a bit of love and polish - even if no new features were added...
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2011.03.30 03:06:00 - [45] CCP missed an opportunity to integrate FW with PI. I can build planet stuff on New Caldari Prime while they shoot me in space. But the sov mechanic has it that you can't do PI on worlds that are on worlds not owned by your alliance. I imagine they will HAVE to do something with factional warfare for DUST 514. But who knows when DUST 514 is coming out. ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard
Kabaal S'sylistha Caldari Technomage Trilogy Valor Empire	Posted - 2011.03.30 04:15:00 - [46] This deserves a blue post imo. FW has always been one of those things I look at and go "Man, if they fixed it right, they'd have my money for life." But no. Not even showing up to the fan table for it? I might have to invoke some curse language to show how utterly disrespectful that is to a client. I won't threaten to quit Eve, but rest assured I will recommend anyone who hasn't already gotten in and addicted to ship spinning to stay away until alot of the core gameplay, like faction warfare, is addressed. -More Pewpew, Less QQ-
Kireiina	Posted - 2011.03.30 06:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Har Harrison I ask this as a corp mate who attended has just told me no one from CCP turned up. Only the players with an interest in FW were there. That's just incredibly rude and lame :/
Ten Bulls Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.30 06:32:00 - [48] CCP, you say they want more pew pew, you say you hate the blob. Your nerfing low value 0.0 system, it will reduce 0.0 population and force people to blob in higher value systems. FW is a solution to reduce blobs and increase PvP, but you ignore it. Boosting low-sec would also help and that is ignored like FW. CCP what is required from you right now is for you to man up and admit your mistakes, turn that ship around !
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.30 06:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Ten Bulls CCP, you say they want more pew pew, you say you hate the blob. Your nerfing low value 0.0 system, it will reduce 0.0 population and force people to blob in higher value systems. FW is a solution to reduce blobs and increase PvP, but you ignore it. Boosting low-sec would also help and that is ignored like FW. CCP what is required from you right now is for you to man up and admit your mistakes, turn that ship around ! The presence or lack of blobs and PVP does not affect the $ CCP makes. Of course they don't care. There's not enough $ in FW for CCP to care. There was $ in it when it was new and got new subs, but everyone's lived with it long enough that nobody's gonna quit over it. If it doesn't affect their $ then it's not broken.
Donatien de'Sade Ars Notoria	Posted - 2011.03.30 06:49:00 - [50] Not turning up to your own organised event is a pretty sad indictment of CCP as a company, more so when no one is surprised this happened.. ----------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.03.30 07:29:00 - [51] Originally by: mkmin The message I got from fanfest was that anyone in the company who cares about the players are not decision makers. The decision makers have thoroughly communicated that "we are in it for the money. We are doing things our way no matter how badly it breaks the game experience. and if you don't like it, **** off." The game experience (lag, bugs, instability, dismal and incompetent staff/support) is staying the same. That's the problem. Instead of improving the game they are introducing some cybersex tool for gender confused mmo-nerds. Well... it would be a cybersex platform but sadly you can't actually interact with anyone just yet (will be "iterated" on later... lol) so it's pretty half-arsed (and thus fits perfectly to CCPs corporate identity).
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.30 07:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Alissa Solette Originally by: mkmin The message I got from fanfest was that anyone in the company who cares about the players are not decision makers. The decision makers have thoroughly communicated that "we are in it for the money. We are doing things our way no matter how badly it breaks the game experience. and if you don't like it, **** off." The game experience (lag, bugs, instability, dismal and incompetent staff/support) is staying the same. That's the problem. Instead of improving the game they are introducing some cybersex tool for gender confused mmo-nerds. Well... it would be a cybersex platform but sadly you can't actually interact with anyone just yet (will be "iterated" on later... lol) so it's pretty half-arsed (and thus fits perfectly to CCPs corporate identity). Betcha money that they won't bother releasing any iterations on cybersex until their new subs start to dip, then they'll advertise it like they've got the cure for cancer. This year's theme instead of being "excellence" is now "Cash on Delivery."
Tiberius Murderhorne Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 07:53:00 - [53] Checking in! I still have love for faction war, have been in it for a while now but it all seems to be getting a bit stale. it has gone from regular small gang fun pvp to "Who can fit a ship that is fast enough locking to catch that mission running bomber...." come on CCP please just have a meeting about it at least and discuss whats wrong.... it would be a start!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.30 09:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores I imagine they will HAVE to do something with factional warfare for DUST 514. But who knows when DUST 514 is coming out. Don't count on it. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Webvan	Posted - 2011.03.30 09:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Har Harrison I have a question for CCP. Did you miss the round table at Fan Fest for Faction Warfare? ok this is just really lame. I'm 2 days into training an alt for FW, planning 30 to 100 days to train this year just for FW. I may as well just go back to training my highsec carebear character, while looking for another mmo that has factions as it's the only type of mmo pvp I like (lots of exp with it). I mean yeah I know it's broke here, ok, but not even showing up is just wrong. Part of why I got a sub for this game, a big part, was for factions, pvp was suppose to be great here. Someone lied, probably just to get free months in the buddy program, more scammers just like the 99.9% around Jita. This is just disappointing. Maybe I just wont show up for paying my sub next month
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 09:52:00 - [56] very disapointing CCP - but us vets who have been here for almost 3 years are not supprised. Just end the war if you dont intend to bother listening to what we from all 4 factions have been saying, trying to help improve fw and listen for once to the players that know what they are talking about. Put fw the forgoten unwanted child of eve out of its missary. If not then open up a forum discussion on improvement and put your new CSM's to work. ' There is nothing left but to go forward and die hard ' Empyrean War turning friends to enemies and enemies to brothers Do not fear that which you do not understand, Instead embrace it, understand it .... And you will fear it no more. - Divine Commodore InCogneto - Griffin pilot

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.03.30 10:12:00 - [57] Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Well, CCP? Well, I can say I wasn't there. But I will check with the people who were listed on our end. Thanks for bringing this up. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.30 10:18:00 - [58] Oh my god! It speaks! /me goes off to acquire the pike for when the requisite head comes off.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 10:52:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Manifest Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Well, CCP? Well, I can say I wasn't there. But I will check with the people who were listed on our end. Thanks for bringing this up. I got a post from CCP!!! I'm not sure what to say... Oh wait - got it!!! "#winning"
Gangleri Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2011.03.30 10:53:00 - [60] A damn shame how CCP handles Factional Warfare. Lettings a large portion of its customers in the cold already for years and now even showing total disrespect by not showing up. 1PG is recruiting

Rainus Max Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.30 11:12:00 - [61] Are you sure the round table wasnt cancelled? I know CCP cancelled at least one talk in Sisi and yet the room was still full with people waiting.
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 11:41:00 - [62] Originally by: Rainus Max Are you sure the round table wasnt cancelled? I know CCP cancelled at least one talk in Sisi and yet the room was still full with people waiting. Yes they cancelled one round table cause of bad scheduling, but it wasn't the FW round table. The one guy of CCP there (not knowing anything of FW) didn't even knew where the ones that normally would attend this round table stayed. Thumbs up to all that were there to not tear him apart, as he was just the messenger. ---------------------------------- None of yet!
Tiberius Murderhorne Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 12:21:00 - [63] will be interesting to hear what CCP have to say on this. and @Har #Winning indeed :P charlie would be proud... come on CCP lets hear the excuses, few people here reading and posting waiting for some kind of response... Cheers Tib
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.03.30 12:22:00 - [64] Somebody that went to the event said that a Dev was double booked? I GOT SCAMMED BY DEVS ON THE PUBCRAWL where was the hßkarl?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 12:37:00 - [65] Originally by: Skippermonkey Somebody that went to the event said that a Dev was double booked? How do you double book when the event is planned well in advance???
Skippy Peanut	Posted - 2011.03.30 13:02:00 - [66] I only been in FW for few months, if FW dies off what else is there in EVE that will give me satisfaction to fight agains other players? I hope to get my core skills up to really get some kills in FW b4 it is dead.
Karl Planck Walt Disney Productions	Posted - 2011.03.30 13:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Webvan Originally by: Har Harrison I have a question for CCP. Did you miss the round table at Fan Fest for Faction Warfare? ok this is just really lame. I'm 2 days into training an alt for FW, planning 30 to 100 days to train this year just for FW. I may as well just go back to training my highsec carebear character, while looking for another mmo that has factions as it's the only type of mmo pvp I like (lots of exp with it). I mean yeah I know it's broke here, ok, but not even showing up is just wrong. Part of why I got a sub for this game, a big part, was for factions, pvp was suppose to be great here. Someone lied, probably just to get free months in the buddy program, more scammers just like the 99.9% around Jita. This is just disappointing. Maybe I just wont show up for paying my sub next month really dude? You haven't even tried FW and you want to unsub b/c of forum rage? Wowza For all of the raging about FW it is the most fun I have in eve. Lots to do and the plex mechanics, while they could be improved, are simply awesome for reducing the size of fights to a manageable level and getting rid of the blob (even a few hours before dt). I say this to all FW potentials, just get down here and see if its for you. This game, after all, is what YOU make it. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.30 13:21:00 - [68] Originally by: Karl Planck Originally by: Webvan Originally by: Har Harrison I have a question for CCP. Did you miss the round table at Fan Fest for Faction Warfare? ok this is just really lame. I'm 2 days into training an alt for FW, planning 30 to 100 days to train this year just for FW. I may as well just go back to training my highsec carebear character, while looking for another mmo that has factions as it's the only type of mmo pvp I like (lots of exp with it). I mean yeah I know it's broke here, ok, but not even showing up is just wrong. Part of why I got a sub for this game, a big part, was for factions, pvp was suppose to be great here. Someone lied, probably just to get free months in the buddy program, more scammers just like the 99.9% around Jita. This is just disappointing. Maybe I just wont show up for paying my sub next month really dude? You haven't even tried FW and you want to unsub b/c of forum rage? Wowza For all of the raging about FW it is the most fun I have in eve. Lots to do and the plex mechanics, while they could be improved, are simply awesome for reducing the size of fights to a manageable level and getting rid of the blob (even a few hours before dt). I say this to all FW potentials, just get down here and see if its for you. This game, after all, is what YOU make it. Umm - isn't the complaint that the plex mechanics break after a few hours, so you only have a few hours AFTER downtime??? And so far - I haven't really seen much raging - just people who have 1) shown an interest in any answer CCP may provide to the question I have asked and/or 2) have an interest in FW and would like to see it iterated on, such that CCP "Deliver".
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.03.30 15:47:00 - [69] A simple response would indeed be courteous.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.03.30 15:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Shaalira D'arc A simple response would indeed be courteous. Incarna > Dust > WOD > Nebulas > Turret Effects > Lag > Actually this might go on for awile. Lets skip ahead > Hybrids > Spelling Errors in Mission Logs > FW Tbh I dont think anyone really cares about FW anymore sadly. I would bet a majority of people still in FW are only there to farm LP in SB.

Meeogi Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.30 16:11:00 - [71] So...what are you guys waiting to hear from C.C.P? a big...... UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Because I'm guessing that's about all its going to be,and most of you know this. Instead of silence....or a whole lot of words saying nothing..just say....We have other **** our bosses are having us work on, sorry. Wax on Wax off
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.03.30 16:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai I would bet a majority of people still in FW are only there to farm LP in SB. Those fleet phoons aren't going to market nosedive down to 150mil by themselves ya know? --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.30 19:16:00 - [73] frankly CCP seems to have Cronic Foot in mouth with a lot of things latly. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
moneykeeper	Posted - 2011.03.30 20:31:00 - [74] Its because the devs have all been playing for years and dont remember what the game is like for new players. You think that a new player can just join a 0.0 corp, jump in a frig and start shooting up carriers? Nope, faction war or low sec piracy is the only way for new players to leave empire. Thats how you get pvp skills, meet people and join pvp corps. And breaking into 0.0 space is almost impossible now. Unless you got 50 titans and 100 motherships 0.0 just isn't going to happen. So corps that want to got to 0.0 have to join stupid big alliances, that the devs love, because they are in them. Devs should make new chars to remind themselves how boring the first 2 or 3 months playing eve is. then you'd see improvements to stuff like fw that give new players the chance to make the transition from intersting low sec pvp in small gangs to hours of gate camping in 0.0.
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.30 20:43:00 - [75] Having been at that round table I agree it was a disgrace that the people knowledgeable about FW from CCP did not show up there. Props to the person from CCP who was there and took down notes of what was being discussed there (If memory serves he was one of the content writers/devs for the Incursion system who joined CCP shortly after FW was released) There was a full consensus that more incentive had to be given towards taking systems, the idea's of how to do this differed a bit but everyone agreed it had to be done. Another of the main things talked about was the issue's with piracy in FW, thanks to the VETO group that showed up (who also gave great feedback into the FW side of things) Though the dev there could of course not speak for what was going to happen he said that changes for FW have been in the backlog for quite some time now (no surprise there), and that from what he had heard there had been talk about a complete redesign of the FW system instead of fixing the current broken one, including some speculation into implementing some of the Incursion mechanics.
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2011.03.30 21:59:00 - [76] Originally by: Idicious Lightbane Having been at that round table I agree it was a disgrace that the people knowledgeable about FW from CCP did not show up there. Props to the person from CCP who was there and took down notes of what was being discussed there (If memory serves he was one of the content writers/devs for the Incursion system who joined CCP shortly after FW was released) There was a full consensus that more incentive had to be given towards taking systems, the idea's of how to do this differed a bit but everyone agreed it had to be done. Another of the main things talked about was the issue's with piracy in FW, thanks to the VETO group that showed up (who also gave great feedback into the FW side of things) Though the dev there could of course not speak for what was going to happen he said that changes for FW have been in the backlog for quite some time now (no surprise there), and that from what he had heard there had been talk about a complete redesign of the FW system instead of fixing the current broken one, including some speculation into implementing some of the Incursion mechanics. Ah, there was at least one person from CCP, good. ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:03:00 - [77] Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Originally by: Idicious Lightbane Having been at that round table I agree it was a disgrace that the people knowledgeable about FW from CCP did not show up there. Props to the person from CCP who was there and took down notes of what was being discussed there (If memory serves he was one of the content writers/devs for the Incursion system who joined CCP shortly after FW was released) There was a full consensus that more incentive had to be given towards taking systems, the idea's of how to do this differed a bit but everyone agreed it had to be done. Another of the main things talked about was the issue's with piracy in FW, thanks to the VETO group that showed up (who also gave great feedback into the FW side of things) Though the dev there could of course not speak for what was going to happen he said that changes for FW have been in the backlog for quite some time now (no surprise there), and that from what he had heard there had been talk about a complete redesign of the FW system instead of fixing the current broken one, including some speculation into implementing some of the Incursion mechanics. Ah, there was at least one person from CCP, good. Yeah, the janitor. CCP MopHead.
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:19:00 - [78] Originally by: Donatien de'Sade Not turning up to your own organised event is a pretty sad indictment of CCP as a company, more so when no one is surprised this happened.. My sentiments exactly. --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won 500 mill.
Maceross Phrixus Mot	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:22:00 - [79] Originally by: Idicious Lightbane Having been at that round table I agree it was a disgrace that the people knowledgeable about FW from CCP did not show up there. Props to the person from CCP who was there and took down notes of what was being discussed there (If memory serves he was one of the content writers/devs for the Incursion system who joined CCP shortly after FW was released) There was a full consensus that more incentive had to be given towards taking systems, the idea's of how to do this differed a bit but everyone agreed it had to be done. Another of the main things talked about was the issue's with piracy in FW, thanks to the VETO group that showed up (who also gave great feedback into the FW side of things) Though the dev there could of course not speak for what was going to happen he said that changes for FW have been in the backlog for quite some time now (no surprise there), and that from what he had heard there had been talk about a complete redesign of the FW system instead of fixing the current broken one, including some speculation into implementing some of the Incursion mechanics. Ive met the people I spent the next couple of years with ingame, and had some proper amazing times at the start of FW. However, it was soon sad to see how imbalanced and empty it was so we all left. Id love to see it become a great feature again so other players can get introduced to a new side of the game like did through it. Good news that it looks like its getting some thought, shame that it wasnt given the time it deserves at fanfest.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:02:00 - [80] I'm glad to hear that that someone did take notes at least - hopefully something happens to them. Disappointed that someone who understood FW didn't show up. It definately would be good for some of the incursion mechanics to potentially be used - even if it is just to make the NPCs smarter...

Webvan	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:58:00 - [81] Originally by: Skippy Peanut I only been in FW for few months, if FW dies off what else is there in EVE that will give me satisfaction to fight agains other players? It's not going to die, it has mission running. Look, what is the one game mechanic element CCP added to each variation of pvp in EVE? The answer is Greed. I guess in CCP's eyes, it's only greed that motivates people to pvp. Unfortunately, being the prevailing motivation really draws people motivated by greed to the game, while people like me leave, which I am (no you don't want my stuff, I only been here 90 days, and not motivated by greed). Even the changes/nerfs coming to 0.0 is about greed being the mechanic to cause conflict. All aspects of pvp in EVE are centered on greed, even factions with mission running while other motivations are left to rot or trampled over by the prevailing motivation of greed. Factions are not suppose to operate on greed apart from any story line that may present some form of RP reason to war by greed. Factions are about conquest and boasting rights, purely about having fun. Once you add other motivations to factions such as greed, it's no longer faction warfare, but in this case mission running for high rewards etc. I don't think this will ever be fixed because CCP likes it this way, maybe some kind of european political statement they make? Don't know, but I'm not sticking around to wait for any fix which I doubt will ever come anyway, not when they won't even discuss the current state of faction wars with it subscribers at their own convention. Toodles
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.31 06:51:00 - [82] Still waiting for the answer please CCP...
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.31 13:04:00 - [83] Was watching some fan fest videos - there is a comment that CCP wants to see small scale PvP "We want there to be a trade off, not necessarily rock paper scissors - small gang warfare is just as fun as the big fleet stuff" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y4RSYY23g8 - 7:25 onwards So where is the commitment to FW, starting with the response that was promised...?
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.31 13:09:00 - [84] Its only been over 24 hours. Ccp we still waiting, You most have known this thread was coming. plan event not turn up. Thought you had all your Excuses Ready
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.31 13:14:00 - [85] Originally by: Lord Meriak Its only been over 24 hours. Ccp we still waiting, You most have known this thread was coming. plan event not turn up. Thought you had all your Excuses Ready umadbro ♥
Lord Ryan The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.31 13:42:00 - [86] Maybe he was in Cancun or something it's to damn cold in Iceland! Anyways throwing in my support, fix FW, get rid of missions and whatever these other guys are saying. Amarr Victory!
Jason1138	Posted - 2011.03.31 14:01:00 - [87] "It has been over two years ladies and all we have gotten are new bugs and old bugs squashed. " i remember you getting faction BS's in the LP store last year. not saying that CCP cares about FW much, because they don't, but they have occasionally done 1 thing here or there to buff it
ITTigerClawIK Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2011.03.31 15:24:00 - [88] Originally by: Skippermonkey Somebody that went to the event said that a Dev was double booked? tbh i dont blame the guy for choseing the other roundtable to the FW one if he was double booked based on the comments made here and the general rage mentality that just want to tear the guy a new one Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.31 15:32:00 - [89] ... ok since they clearly already abandoned the whole Excelence, and it looks like "Deliver" is heading to the waistbasket as a paper basketball. I guess next year will be "promis" fallowed by "lie through our teeth"(Just kidding)(or am i(sigh)) .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.03.31 17:08:00 - [90] I've talked it over with a few people, including the event scheduler and a couple people from design. There was basically a terrible, inexcusable miscommunication where the session had loosely been decided upon beforehand as a topic, but nobody had properly affirmed their attendance on the dev side. In the madness leading up to and during Fanfest something is bound to go wrong. Regrettably, CCP's attendance at the FW session was one of the few things that did. So, I'm talking to some of the people that could possibly have been at a FW session to figure out how to make it up to the people who went to the session but found it unmanned. More on this hopefully in a couple days time at the latest. I'm also waiting to hear back from CCP Gilsev, the CCPer who did attend the session (as mentioned above), but who works on the content team and had nothing to do with FW other than having general knowledge about it. He has been at a team offsite in Iceland ever since Fanfest, so hope to hear from him tomorrow. I want to get his notes and thoughts to at least be able to pick up the conversation had there on these boards. CCP Krisnitori, one of the main organizers of Fanfest, expressed extreme regret to me and by proxy to you guys, for not properly handling this session before Fanfest. She did a fantastic job with everything else as far as I can see, but she admits a definite fail in this area. Again, sorry from CCP. We know what a blue ball it is to travel to Fanfest to speak about something you really care about in EVE and then to be hit with a brick wall. Hopefully some generative discussion was had about FW that can continue here apart from the justified indignation. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute


Xriss Ravana	Posted - 2011.03.31 17:25:00 - [91] Many is the company that would have stepped in here, locked the subject and hoped never to hear about it again. Kudos on admitting a fault and trying to fix it CCP.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.31 17:33:00 - [92] Appology Accepted, now just follow up as soon as you resonably can. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
Onis Reborn	Posted - 2011.03.31 18:14:00 - [93] Either Faction Warfare is going to continue as it is with nothing done to it, and will die off, or CCP is going to do something useful with it to make it actually appeal to people. I'm fine with either option, I would just like to know one way or the other.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 18:16:00 - [94] There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.31 18:49:00 - [95] Originally by: mkmin Nobody joins EVE for FW. Empyrean Age Teaser Teaser 2 Trailer That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of **. To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables. The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way. -- Originally by:** Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.31 19:06:00 - [96] FW was so good when people actually fought for plexes So good. Now it's just an loliskmachine --------
Liorah	Posted - 2011.03.31 19:15:00 - [97] The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence.
Onis Reborn	Posted - 2011.03.31 19:28:00 - [98] Originally by: mkmin There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW. This is partly true, and partly misguided. People join Eve for many reason, but a large part of the draw of Eve is the generally interesting PvP. FW is/was intended to be a way to get people engaged in PvP in a semi-organized fashion, while giving them goals and isk rewards as incentive to further the militia. Faction Warfare being a mainly PvP focused idea, and Eve being a mainly PvP focused game, I would think it would benefit them in the long run to improve upon a potentially large market of PvP'ers that need some structure (think other MMO's). Faction Warfare could and should be a major warzone for relatively new players to get into some fleets and go have at opposing factions, building a better sense of the roleplaying side of the game, and giving players new to PvP an outlet to get their feet wet. Currently its just go to low-sec/null-sec, get blown up, don't understand why, rage at PvP. There are a lot of good PvP training corps out there, but there are also good FW corps around, but the incentive to participate in FW is nearly non-existant. The incentive to run missions and ignore the actual "warfare" aspect is clearly defined, but victory points and plexes are more or less a moot point, other than for standing.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 19:36:00 - [99] Originally by: Onis Reborn Originally by: mkmin There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW. This is partly true, and partly misguided. People join Eve for many reason, but a large part of the draw of Eve is the generally interesting PvP. FW is/was intended to be a way to get people engaged in PvP in a semi-organized fashion, while giving them goals and isk rewards as incentive to further the militia. Faction Warfare being a mainly PvP focused idea, and Eve being a mainly PvP focused game, I would think it would benefit them in the long run to improve upon a potentially large market of PvP'ers that need some structure (think other MMO's). Faction Warfare could and should be a major warzone for relatively new players to get into some fleets and go have at opposing factions, building a better sense of the roleplaying side of the game, and giving players new to PvP an outlet to get their feet wet. Currently its just go to low-sec/null-sec, get blown up, don't understand why, rage at PvP. There are a lot of good PvP training corps out there, but there are also good FW corps around, but the incentive to participate in FW is nearly non-existant. The incentive to run missions and ignore the actual "warfare" aspect is clearly defined, but victory points and plexes are more or less a moot point, other than for standing. Yeah, but how would they advertise it? "Hey we fixed one of the many features we released broken and haven't touched since release. It only took us 3 years too. Come play our game! We promise it's really fixed this time!" It would take massive amounts of awesome to make FW a continuously marketable feature, especially when they can instead say "hey, we've got a new feature! Come play our game!" Any new subs from FW were gotten years ago. FW is a corpse. I wonder if it's time to accept that, and to accept that CCP is building a dead game.

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.03.31 20:12:00 - [100] Originally by: Liorah The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence. Yeah seriously. Not the happiest of mistakes in my book. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute


Onis Reborn	Posted - 2011.03.31 20:31:00 - [101] I think if you had a healthy base of FW players that were enjoying a renewed and fixed FW aspect, the word of mouth to friends would be a big advertisement on its own. Not that I'm some video game market expert or anything, but I'm sure friend referrals make up a very large portion of new subscribers. At least that's how I hear about a LOT of new people joining games "My friends all play and say X is awesome fun and they get together every night so I signed up" is not uncommon to hear. Gamer communities are very vocal and social, and a happy community is a community that is willing to invite their buddies to join up. That being said, I'm just glad that FW is going to get at least some attention, and as I previously stated, whether it is positive attention with fixes coming, or an acknowledgement that it isn't important and is more or less scrapped, any information is welcome.
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y.	Posted - 2011.03.31 20:46:00 - [102] Maybe a live dev blog where players can ask questions and stuff could be scheduled to make up for this? Make a good portion of it about faction warfare? This mistake can easily be redeemed.
Meeogi Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.31 21:03:00 - [103] WEll...if your listening. I think the lp and reward system is all jacked up. I'd like to see rankings and lp actually used for FW... For instance, killing an opposing faction pod pilot should reward tons of lp..and podding an opposing capsuleer should be 5 times more then that..After all we are pod pilots and gods among the standard navies'..and eliminating a gods pod should be paid as such. LP points should be redeemable in super cool things....Id like to see the players rank and lp points used to drop friendly npc frigate gangs ...and the higher the rank the bigger a fleet you can drop..lp points would definatly go up with this. One should also have to have a cyno fitted to drop. Each FW side should have a main system...with each factions titan located in said system....would also go with the the cynoing of a frigate...cruiser...or BS NPC squad....The Titan could be located in a pos shielded "headquarters" and killing the titan can happen once militia is over run. Rankings should also come from PVP ...and not from mere plex/missions....one should NEVER be able to become a "general" in a week or two. On decorations and rewards, other then FW rank...The names of poddings should also be listed....just cause its cool. You implemented medals ..yet you really dont get them in FW...make that happen. "Meeogi courageously killed Nubs on 3-31-11" something like that. anyways just jotted down some idea's
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 21:17:00 - [104] Originally by: Meeogi WEll...if your listening. I think the lp and reward system is all jacked up. I'd like to see rankings and lp actually used for FW... For instance, killing an opposing faction pod pilot should reward tons of lp..and podding an opposing capsuleer should be 5 times more then that..After all we are pod pilots and gods among the standard navies'..and eliminating a gods pod should be paid as such. LP points should be redeemable in super cool things....Id like to see the players rank and lp points used to drop friendly npc frigate gangs ...and the higher the rank the bigger a fleet you can drop..lp points would definatly go up with this. One should also have to have a cyno fitted to drop. Each FW side should have a main system...with each factions titan located in said system....would also go with the the cynoing of a frigate...cruiser...or BS NPC squad....The Titan could be located in a pos shielded "headquarters" and killing the titan can happen once militia is over run. Rankings should also come from PVP ...and not from mere plex/missions....one should NEVER be able to become a "general" in a week or two. On decorations and rewards, other then FW rank...The names of poddings should also be listed....just cause its cool. You implemented medals ..yet you really dont get them in FW...make that happen. "Meeogi courageously killed Nubs on 3-31-11" something like that. anyways just jotted down some idea's I've always thought adding standings to NPCs target acquisition priority would add a lot of depth to PVE. Throwing pilots into the middle of an epic fight in-progress would be fun, but would also balance out half of the PVP/PVE disparity.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.31 21:26:00 - [105] We love to make you feel awkward CCP
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.03.31 21:48:00 - [106] Originally by: CCP Manifest Originally by: Liorah The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence. Yeah seriously. Not the happiest of mistakes in my book. No one at CCP feels responsible for FW and you can't even say for sure who should. Big surprise ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.03.31 21:56:00 - [107] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: mkmin Nobody joins EVE for FW. Empyrean Age Teaser Teaser 2 Trailer That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of ****. To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables. The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way. Confirming this is why I started a Minnie char. I had just started playing a week before and had a Gallente char mining rocks in a Navitas when I saw this trailer and the Rifter. Scrapped the Gallente char for a Minnie one and have never looked back.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 22:01:00 - [108] Originally by: Bomberlocks Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: mkmin Nobody joins EVE for FW. Empyrean Age Teaser Teaser 2 Trailer That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of ****. To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables. The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way. Confirming this is why I started a Minnie char. I had just started playing a week before and had a Gallente char mining rocks in a Navitas when I saw this trailer and the Rifter. Scrapped the Gallente char for a Minnie one and have never looked back. I'd guess that you would no longer be called a "new sub" though. And even if you were, the message is "EVE needs better videos!" not "EVE needs better game mechanics!"
Bob Niac Gallente Fink Operations -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.03.31 22:30:00 - [109] Soooo ... Live dev blog mebbe? simulcast on EVETV?
Ameline Neko	Posted - 2011.03.31 22:38:00 - [110] And there I was, thinking that the Future Vision video was representing Caldari vs Gallente, and integrating with Dust. Is FW future being planned behind closed doors as we type? Ok, doubtful; but hey, gotta have a dream.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.03.31 23:49:00 - [111] I'm glad to see a response as to why no one showed. I guess the next question I have is what everyone else is now asking - what is going to be done to fix/improve FW. A suggestion I have for CCP is to talk to long term FW corp CEO/directors and/or get the various militia to nominate some representation to discuss the issues and put forwards suggestions. I don't want to marginalise the CSM, but discussions regarding FW DO need input from the people who do it, rather then high sec carebears or null sec alliance members, as only people who flip sov, run FW missions and generally run in the FW PvP fleets will know what they think needs to be done.
Onis Reborn	Posted - 2011.03.31 23:57:00 - [112] Originally by: Har Harrison A suggestion I have for CCP is to talk to long term FW corp CEO/directors and/or get the various militia to nominate some representation to discuss the issues and put forwards suggestions. I don't want to marginalise the CSM, but discussions regarding FW DO need input from the people who do it, rather then high sec carebears or null sec alliance members, as only people who flip sov, run FW missions and generally run in the FW PvP fleets will know what they think needs to be done. Terrific idea here. There are several FW corps that have been at this for a while, I would love to see them get involved.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.01 00:19:00 - [113] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 01/04/2011 00:26:16 Originally by: CCP Manifest but nobody had properly affirmed their attendance on the dev side. Does it not strike you that this might be just a symptom of the problem and just as aggravating to hear? CCP didn't show up because CCP has zero staff with any understanding of FW and zero staff with any responsibility for FW. While there are too many staff working against FW and deliberately ensuring it receives no resources. This is the situation we are complaining about, you just described a confirmation of it being a problem. Fix the structure. Then fix the code. Originally by: mkmin There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW. These bugs are fixable and will make FW the best small gang PvP in the game once more. There is no money in FW only because it was neglected by CCP until everyone left to find gameplay which actually works as intended. After the hype budget for FW some of us kinda expected the simple bugs to be fixed. Originally by: CCP Manifest Hopefully some generative discussion was had about FW that can continue here apart from the justified indignation. Starting work. That will be a good one, much better then a free ship or a special Eve trailer. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Aquana Abyss	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:25:00 - [114] Elegant piece of evasion there CCP to not even show up to your own organised event. Now if only you could do that for all the failing parts of the game; I know, next fanfest why not employ the CSM to host everything and then afterwards do all the development... them suckers will work for free!!!
Jireel	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:26:00 - [115] Edited by: Jireel on 01/04/2011 01:29:57 Dudes, a public representative of a company is making a public apology about something. Instead of throwing rocks at him, you should realize it may be the ray of hope you all wanted for years, especially if CCP made a habit of ignoring FW requests for the last years. About the dev time needed for FW, I suggest that team BFF is actually working on correcting old bugs. They could add those FW bugs to their list, to at least correct the issues if not revamp the features. PS: I've been looking at faction warfare for some time now, and one of my chars should be free in a approx. a month. Is there any Amarr FW corp alive ? I'm purely looking at the PVP aspect and not willing to do any mission.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:31:00 - [116] When I attended fanfest a few years ago and took part in the first alliance roundtable, myself, a high ranking member of UK, a high ranking member of SF, some guys from Caldari RP and quite a few people showed up for the FW roundtable (it was the first year that fanfest did roundtables). We sat around and CCP explained what FW was about and what plans they had for it. All of us sitting there explained to CCP at the time (I belive it was Ginger that was there, but we can find out who it was) that RP was a very important part of eve culture and that people and organizations had taken a long time in forging these relationships and animosities and that FW had to take the time to listin to these people and organizations to fine tune it over time. We all warned CCP that if they neglected this (as they had other things and have since then done so) that they were essentially killing RP in eve by taking it, giving it form, then droping the ball. Now its not just about missing the roundtable - its about listining to a bunch of 0.0 csm's who have no vested interest in FW, to the carebears who want to make money off it, and the prevailing idea that FW is somehow the training grounds for newer pilots and essentially an extended 'live-fire' zone to learn combat. You were warned CCP - and this years CSM will not bring this up or reprisent us. So if you want to know what is wrong, you need to talk to FW directly since CSM is now essentially run by interest groups, and FW is a declining minority.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:40:00 - [117] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 01/04/2011 01:40:52 Originally by: Jireel Dudes, a public representative of a company is making a public apology about something. Instead of throwing rocks at him Just the latest of many insults to the players of FW. He can apologise all he likes, won't make the code get written any faster. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Jireel	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:49:00 - [118] Considering the "marketing is always asking people to do silly things in no time" is the #1 complain in all technical departments of the world, I believe he does.
Jhagiti Tyran Caldari Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns	Posted - 2011.04.01 01:59:00 - [119] Originally by: Liorah The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence. It was a remarkable coincidence that's for sure, the apology from the CCP guy in this thread does seem sincere though.
moneykeeper	Posted - 2011.04.01 02:46:00 - [120] There are loads of obvious things CCP could do to improve faction war. For a start introduce fw jump clones for militia members only. That way people dont need to grinf up 8.0 standings before they can even join. Fix plexes, so they dont always spawn after downtime. Have faction war gear or ships that can only be used by people in the militia. Make it unsellable, like noobships. Higher fw ranks get better gear. A few new 0.0 systems bordering fw space, that can only be controled by the militias would be cool. Militia uniforms to play dress up in. Cheap rent in fw stations for militia members if WIS ever comes out.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.01 02:51:00 - [121] Edited by: Har Harrison on 01/04/2011 02:52:04 Team BFF definately can fix a number of the bugs one would hope e.g. 1) Faction Standing Penalty for RR on a <-5/gcc militia member 2) Plex spawning mechanics 3) Rebalance of NPCs - ideally making them all somewhat harder so that you can't solo missions etc.. and I would definately say seeing them fixed is a good start. However there are certain deeper design mechanics that would improve FW immensely. Some are harder then others 1) Corp/Militia Missions - bit like running an Incursion - needs a fleet to work together 2) Real consequences to winning/losing sov 3) PvP being worth more then a gf (good fight) in local (more LP/isk etc...) 4) Logistical issues to handle - this could force PvP by attacking/defending the transports moving war supplies, slaves, etc... 5) Meaning significance in the rank structure - and consequences for those that hurt the militia (ability to force out griefer corps or member of the Faction NPC corp??? etc...???) Originally by: Jireel PS: I've been looking at faction warfare for some time now, and one of my chars should be free in a approx. a month. Is there any Amarr FW corp alive ? I'm purely looking at the PVP aspect and not willing to do any mission. We would be interested in recruiting any decent and dedicated pilots - look up Amarrian Retribution in game and send in a mail or join the pub channel
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.01 02:58:00 - [122] Originally by: Jireel Edited by: Jireel on 01/04/2011 01:29:57 Dudes, a public representative of a company is making a public apology about something. Instead of throwing rocks at him, you should realize it may be the ray of hope you all wanted for years, especially if CCP made a habit of ignoring FW requests for the last years. About the dev time needed for FW, I suggest that team BFF is actually working on correcting old bugs. They could add those FW bugs to their list, to at least correct the issues if not revamp the features. PS: I've been looking at faction warfare for some time now, and one of my chars should be free in a approx. a month. Is there any Amarr FW corp alive ? I'm purely looking at the PVP aspect and not willing to do any mission. They showed up to the roundtables in previous years and jack all got done. Not bothering to show up and then going "whoops" is kind of counter indicative of something ever getting done. BFF is busy breaking 0.0. They're going to be busy fixing it. Or not.
Webvan	Posted - 2011.04.01 03:43:00 - [123] Originally by: Steve Thomas Appology Accepted, now just follow up as soon as you resonably can. Wow how big of you. Now does this mean that you'll be reasonably leaving your self declared solo corp that looks like consists of miners and highsec mission runners etc and join a hard-core faction corp? fun-fun-fun! --- ah what to do with the $40 I saved for a 3mo EVE sub, maybe buy more SL land hehe at least there we have working pvp faction systems that we developed/scripted ourselves so don't get the developer bs run-around (yes it's a big secret to most and very niche). Well, here is hoping for you actual faction war participants here to get some real luv some day. Really EVE would be the greatest if CCP got serious about getting a good working "faction war" system going (semi-again?). I really hate disconnect between devs and players, does no one any good, have seen it before in a bad way (eg swg-cu/nge which once was golden pre- for FW). Why does this happen to so many games? Signing-off.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.04.01 04:05:00 - [124] ** CCP and Faction War. It's been literally years since it was introduced and literally nothing has been done about the staggering unbalance there is between the different races plex not to forget the crushing rr and standing issues. Face it guys ccp is going for the money with incarna and has put casual accessible pew pew on the back burner. Now before you call me a troll and carebear I have been playing the game on every level since 2005 and have watched the game slowly stagnate into caps r us. Originally by:** Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.01 04:13:00 - [125] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu **** CCP and Faction War. It's been literally years since it was introduced and literally nothing has been done about the staggering unbalance there is between the different races plex not to forget the crushing rr and standing issues. Face it guys ccp is going for the money with incarna and has put casual accessible pew pew on the back burner. Now before you call me a troll and carebear I have been playing the game on every level since 2005 and have watched the game slowly stagnate into caps r us. Caps R Us doesn't hurt CCP's $, so they aren't going to change anything about it. Fanfest vids showed a confused "this is a problem?" expression on the devs when confronted with it, and when asked what's going to be done about it, the response was "nothing." Seriously, CCP's decisions over the past 1-2 years all makes sense when looked at from the point of view of a greedy money grab.
Rytha Main Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.01 04:22:00 - [126] A bump for a worthy thread. Hoping to see some developer commentary. In my opinion, FW and Sov mechanics are in desparate need of overhaul. Not sure a game like "Supercaps online" has much of a long term retention rate. FW could be epic. But really... it's not. Amarr shall triumph for God is her Hero, and we are His champions.
Diana Araquez Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.01 06:09:00 - [127] Please keep in mind CCP that most players doing FW warfare now do not in fact want to see the whole system scrapped and replaced with something new, they just want some of the more glaring issues fixed. I think insisting too much that "FW is broken" might give CCP the wrong ideea that they should remove the complex system of occupancy or make FW more like Dominions sov taking or other changes that would make it even worse than today.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.01 06:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Diana Araquez Please keep in mind CCP that most players doing FW warfare now do not in fact want to see the whole system scrapped and replaced with something new, they just want some of the more glaring issues fixed. I think insisting too much that "FW is broken" might give CCP the wrong ideea that they should remove the complex system of occupancy or make FW more like Dominions sov taking or other changes that would make it even worse than today. A valid point - though it would be better to have to do something more then just shoot a bunker... Fix some of the bugs and then take stock of where things at is probably a reasonable option before too much gets redeveloped
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.01 07:22:00 - [129] Originally by: mkmin Yeah, but how would they advertise it?... Beside the point. FW is currently the best place outside of null to pew and get easy ISK, the amount of failscade/disillusioned null corps that come through our doors is staggering. Not only do they get wallets fattened up but they get to practice/indulge in small scale warfare and pick up competent pilots before heading back out. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit ... Well said Admiral. The RP potential is immense, almost all currently active RP elements in Eve have dabbled in or are keeping tabs/assisting FW in one way or another. Originally by: Har Harrison Team BFF definately can fix a number of the bugs one would hope... Not sure there is really that much they can do actually. Most of FW is a mash-up of code from elsewhere (exploration, missions etc.) so they would have to track effects of changes across all the related code .. Note that practically all the heinous bugs (cloaking capture, auto-run timers etc) we have suffered from over the years were a direct result of a change somewhere else that wrecking on the mash-up ..
Asad Shirkuh	Posted - 2011.04.01 11:37:00 - [130] Firstly, props to the CCP representative who actually stepped up and took the hit here. It does, however, not change the fact that the problems with FW are not being handled at all. Most of the players here probably do recognize the issues with allocating resources you do not have - because all CCP staff is working on the new stuff. But you must also be aware of what kind of signal CCP is sending out, by doing what plainly looks like abandoning a game concept (FW) and all the players who have put time and effort to make it work. Reputation is a word that should be familiar even to those members of CCP staff who only care about revenue and profit. Many people - veterans, that have been in 0.0, and came back, name FW the best pvp in the game. Somebody also named the good point - that it is the ONLY available pvp to younger players. For myself, I can say that finding good pvp for a young character was not easy, until I was introduced to a FW corp. I bought 10 rifters and had the time of my (eve)life. After a while, though, one does become aware of the problems that have been listed in this thread. To those issues, I would like to add the following: - FW has little chance to grow because at any time a fleet manages to grow to a decent size, it also presents a nice enough "gank" target for 0.0 alliances that are bored out of their skin. They then drop a fleet of 10 Supercarriers on the FW fleet, and bomb them back to stone age. I will not go on about how unfortunate this is as a game mechanic, but at least in the name of fluff ask: - Would not that sort of action **ss off the Faction Navy you are working for? - The Faction Navy Support mentioned earlier in the thread could work to sort that. - Doing FW has a very strong negative impact on you long-term faction standings. I personally do not understand why CCP would be interested to bar people on the long term (because you have to farm for standings for weeks to get them to acceptable levels to get into other parts of Empire, when you get out of FW) from trying new (read "other") from game content at all? All new MMOs develpers advertize that they are trying to avoid the grind aspect in MMOs. Haven't CCP recongnized this point yet? I would also like to add support to the point about FW mechanics working as incentive only for Stealth Bomber PvE. The faction missions are the only thing that gives you a reward worth mentioning, while the "true FW" - the plex pvp, which is such great fun, gives you practically no reward. This leads to the wrong sort of players being attracted to FW, and, tbh, makes a FW PvPer feel like an idiot for "defending his faction, etc" for no reward...

Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.01 12:06:00 - [131] Ultimately eve is a sandbox, and FW is a sandbox within a larger sandbox. FW has many problems, but so does the rest of Eve. I get annoyed with some of the issues, but actually if I look at what I want, FW delivers. PVP on demand, missions to recover my losses and general fun. Talking to others, especially the RP guys, they are looking for additional excitement, something to force them out to engage even against the odds - a tangible reward even if it is only feeling proud of what they have achieved. Part of the problem is us. Long gone are the days when we would gleefully x up in general militia channel and happily leeroy off in our 100 man frig blobs to capture plexes and get into haphazard fights with the WT. Those days are gone. Nowadays, when a new player joins, or even a 0.0 corp filled with fleetsheep, it is like throwing a baby into a pedo pool. Everyone queues up to get in on the new free kills and after a while they are hiding in station doing nothing, or in a sb doing missions. Then we complain there is no one to kill. Plexes fail to really address this. I would put money on myself against a new FW player that warps his cruiser in on my frigate in a medium plex, never mind all the T2 and faction stuff that is now mandatory to be competitive. The only real solution I can see for plexes is this: Even spread across the day for when they spawn. Identical NPC spawn for all factions. One size of plex - large. To close it, all NPC must be dead Acceleration gates work on your FW ranking, so the new players get some actual room to learn without getting spanked immediately. As for rewards for owning a system? Borrow from existing code and penalise the opposing faction with speed/armor or some other effect - nothing significant, but a few percentage points. Lastly, it is a sandbox and CCP is not going to wipe our bums for us. If many people feel that things are stale, then let the corps involved meet and discuss ways to influence the arena of operations. Many people are passionate about FW, so why not set up an internal FW council to attempt to influence behaviour and tactics for the major long term corps. Thanks for reading excessively lengthy post.
Karl Planck Walt Disney Productions	Posted - 2011.04.01 12:36:00 - [132] I wasn't going to post on this, but after the last post I must. First, ty CCP for acknowledging this mistake and showing these forum whiners that FW is getting attention like everything else. Continues to show that CCP is an upstanding company and I am happy to give my $$ to you every month. Originally by: Bengal Bob Plexes fail to really address this. I would put money on myself against a new FW player that warps his cruiser in on my frigate in a medium plex, never mind all the T2 and faction stuff that is now mandatory to be competitive. The only real solution I can see for plexes is this: Even spread across the day for when they spawn. Identical NPC spawn for all factions. One size of plex - large. To close it, all NPC must be dead Acceleration gates work on your FW ranking, so the new players get some actual room to learn without getting spanked immediately. OMG no no no no no. The plexes are the best thing about this freaking system. Large plexes only? say goodbye to all the frigate fights we get. You can't close a large plex with a frigate (you can sometimes but its hard has hell, especially in certain factions. The beacon is also good because it draws people to an area to fight that is off of the gate entrance. By making it so that you have to kill everything you are forcing people to plex in large ships or in large groups, which is a bad idea for a) noobs, b)those of us that think that frigate are fun. Identical npc's meh, maybe. The one thing you don't bring up is the missions. Those need to be rethought and we all know it. I hate seeing people run solo lvl 4's in a bomber, its just stupid. And if we gave all npc's in fw missions missiles this would be fixed. How often do you see amarr or gallente running lvl 4's in bombers (i for one have never). Make people come out in more expensive boats to get that great lp, its not like any of us are hurting for cash. I look forward to hearing CCP idea for holding a belated meeting on this ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Liorah	Posted - 2011.04.01 14:27:00 - [133] Is FW so broken that it needs to be scrapped and started fresh? Or can smaller, iterative changes be made to bring it inline with the original vision? Would a good "pennance" for ignoring FW for all of these years, with a fresh topping of blue balls from Fanfest, be that discussion and decisions of improvements to FW be made in the open, allowing players to give input the whole way through (and have it actually considered)? If the devs could explain what they want to change, and why, and why solutions were chosen or rejected, the finished product would become something the sales and marketing people could really spin: "In a collaborative effort never before heard of in any other MMO, Developers and Players work together to bring the biggest update to Faction Warfare since its release." (and then go on to list the changes and how it impacts the whole game and is generally the best thing since sliced bread) If advertised that devs and players worked together, it would likely make most of the people who left because of FW take another look and possibly return. It would definitely raise eyebrows among potential new players. Who knows, it could become so successful that the model could be used for other parts of the game. Based on the discussion in this thread already, here's my contribution: - You should take a one-time standings hit with enemies when you join a militia and whenever you kill faction ships in regular PVE missions, but not when you make a kill on behalf of your militia. - LP should be awarded primarily for PvP, with only a minimum available for completing missions, much less than LP from PVE missions. Use a points system similar to how killboards assign points (there's probably room to improve in every killboard implementation out there). Win with overwhelming force, receive few LP; beat an overwhelming force, receive massive LP. Bonus points for popping pods within a brief period after popping their ship. BS vs BS fleets should award more than Frig vs Frig fleets, though there is constant danger from Nullsec. Lots of specifics to try to prevent abuse.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.04.01 14:27:00 - [134] Edited by: Cearain on 01/04/2011 14:30:06 Originally by: mkmin There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW. This couldn't be further from the truth. Everyday Eve loses players who can no longer find any decent small gang pvp. Small gang pvp is a real strength of eve. Yet ccp doesn't play to that strength û they completely ignore it! FW occupancy plexing was the one attempt to actually boost small gang pvp. Unfortunately they just couldn't resist putting npcs in there and making even fw plexing a pve activity. Instead CCP keeps playing to what is widley considered a weakness - shooting npcs. When are they going to realize that developing more ways to shoot npcs is not really going to boost subscriptions? As far as advertising they could hit huge paydirt with fw improvements. They could think of many slogans/catch phrases for the expansion and that sort of thing. ItÆs the biggest war of any game in the history of computer games! How can you fail to market it? ThatÆs not a problem. If people arenÆt aware of eve they will hear about this game with this huge war and become interested. If people are aware of this game they may have hope that ccp finally did something that brings about quality small scale pvp. If you know anything about eve then when incursions was launched what did you think? I thought ôah yes, yet another way to shoot red xs in eve. If it really pays well I may ôgrindö them. I wonder how long it will take to get incarna out so they can start doing decent expansions.ö I donÆt mean to denigrate any ccp employees that worked on incursions. But your work was misdirected from the start. And FW is not really for new pvpers. You arenÆt really trusted until you get some solo kills, and that can be hard for new pvpers. I think newer pvpers would be better off going into null sec blobs if you have allot of time to dedicate to eve, or rvb if you donÆt. You will get a bit more handholding. FW should be for people who like pvp but canÆt dedicate their real life to eve. Does anyone really think there is no market there? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.04.01 14:33:00 - [135] It takes real, brilliant, vision to make eve into what most the people in here want it to be. Real, brilliant, vision built this game. Then it left, and business opportunity stepped in. Now I'm not saying there aren't people at CCP that aren't trying to make a great product. I don't want to bitter vet too much here... but at the end of the day the game we are playing is marketing driven. No one has the courage and wisdom at the upper levels to say "look, here are the areas where our product is not living up to the hype, we are better than this, let's make this stuff work the way everyone intended" Resources are not being provisioned in a way that would groom and develop the game into something better. It's not about better, it's about new and shiny and distracting people and once they got you there they move on to the next new shiny whatever. Really, my sig says it all. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.04.01 16:01:00 - [136] Hola again. I had a brief chat with CCP Zulu and brought this thread to his attention as well as the /facepalm re: Fanfest panel. Having been an active member of the Minnie militia, a lot of things in this thread rang true with me as well. I got into it as an intro to PvP. After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Maximus Mordel Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2011.04.01 16:06:00 - [137] I am going to borrow a few ideas from this thread, other threads, a bad memory, current game mechanics and brainstorms to throw a few ideas out there: Have an ISK and LP reward tied to your killing of enemy player militia members. Possibly have a reduced amount for killing the secondary enemy (i.e. Minmatar killing a Caldari). The previous post about something similar to KB points is a great idea if refined. This payment would be given out weekly/monthly/downtime...whatever. It would be multiplied by a factor determined by the Occupancy of your militia. Plexs would remain as is except for a few changes. The more of your militia around the beacon, the faster it completes. All plexs respawn immediately in the constellation they originated in. This would create more dynamic occupancy and increase the amount of plexs which creates more opportunity for small, medium and large PvP away from stations and gates. Missions would be changed to send you to specific plexs that act similar to scannable plexs, but instead of the timer, you have to complete the mission (the missions would need a bit of balance, perhaps tied to the amount of militia members in the plex). If your militia's occupancy is low, then most missions would be aggressive, and vice versa for high occupancy. LP and ISK rewards for these missions would also be tied to Occupancy level. Show the vulnerability status of a system with a bar or percentage to show the players their successes and/or failures. Again, just a few quick brainstorms and borrowed ideas to mull over. Hack æem up! "Service to the State is not a service...it is an Honor" -Christopher Mordel
Zyracon	Posted - 2011.04.01 16:14:00 - [138] Originally by: CCP Manifest Hola again. I had a brief chat with CCP Zulu and brought this thread to his attention as well as the /facepalm re: Fanfest panel. Having been an active member of the Minnie militia, a lot of things in this thread rang true with me as well. I got into it as an intro to PvP. After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. Rest assured, there are a lot of EVE players who would love nothing more than to come back to Faction warfare. Godspeed, you Minmatar-loving dog.
Selene Asteria Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.01 16:40:00 - [139] Originally by: Meeogi Edited by: Meeogi on 31/03/2011 21:10:32 WEll...if your listening. I think the lp and reward system is all jacked up. I'd like to see rankings and lp actually used for FW... For instance, killing an opposing faction pod pilot should reward tons of lp..and podding an opposing capsuleer should be 5 times more then that..After all we are pod pilots and gods among the standard navies'..and eliminating a gods pod should be paid as such. LP points should be redeemable in super cool things....Id like to see the players rank and lp points used to drop friendly npc frigate gangs ...and the higher the rank the bigger a fleet you can drop..lp points would definatly go up with this. One should also have to have a cyno fitted to drop. Each FW side should have a main system...with each factions titan located in said system....would also go with the the cynoing of a frigate...cruiser...or BS NPC squad....The Titan could be located in a pos shielded "headquarters" and killing the titan can happen once militia is over run. Rankings should also come from PVP ...and not from mere plex/missions....one should NEVER be able to become a "general" in a week or two. On decorations and rewards, other then FW rank...The names of poddings should also be listed....just cause its cool. You implemented medals ..yet you really dont get them in FW...make that happen. "Meeogi courageously killed Nubs on 3-31-11" something like that. anyways just jotted down some idea's <edit> When in fleet if you could set the Fleet Commander...and when people drop fleet have a small rating system that goes into ..or takes away rank would also be cool. Just a simple eve mail.. Amarr would like to thank you for your help in defeating the Minmatar. Your fleet commander was <insert name> please select 1-10 for <said names> leadership and cunning and you shall be rewarded x sum LP's for your help!. This would increase the FC participation...and ranks would actually portray leadership...could also be used in applying for other corps. "was a general in FW...what have you ever done. Good Ideas I really liked the rate your FC idea... I agree that LP's points should be used in FW,Maybe there could be 2 types of lp..one from the militia corp and 1 from combat?. The highest rank should be a very rare sight.
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.04.01 17:35:00 - [140] Killing opposing militia members for LP is so exploitative...I can't believe you guys are seriously talking about it. One of the main problems of a FW system that sits within a larger game design system is the fact it can be so exploitative. If Eve had been made from the ground up in FW as the key PVP design point, I am sure it would rock. But it wasn't, and FW will most likely suck until some magic can address that point. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================

Ramingo Caldari Payable on Death	Posted - 2011.04.01 17:41:00 - [141] List of things that could be done to improve on the FW experience Posting for nostalgia's sake. I will voluntarily join Ice Fire Warrior's's public channel AND read it for 1 week straight from top to bottom if CCP improves FW. And by that I don't mean nerfing missons, but working on PLEXES, sovereignty control, etc...
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.04.01 18:28:00 - [142] Originally by: Karash Amerius Killing opposing militia members for LP is so exploitative...I can't believe you guys are seriously talking about it. One of the main problems of a FW system that sits within a larger game design system is the fact it can be so exploitative. If Eve had been made from the ground up in FW as the key PVP design point, I am sure it would rock. But it wasn't, and FW will most likely suck until some magic can address that point. This is very true. CCP not only has to overcome the fact that resources aren't focused on fixing old content (see also: polished content doesn't sell as good as new content) but they can't just wave a magic wand that makes things cool changes to the FW system are welcome, but you can't just say "well I think LP should be based off killing people"... -HOW DO YOU SUGGEST LP should be based off killing people? then follow your idea through to conclusion. Ask yourself this question: -"Can my idea easily be exploited?" if the answer is yes, you are back to the drawing board. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Meeogi Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.01 18:40:00 - [143] Edited by: Meeogi on 01/04/2011 18:40:51 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: Karash Amerius Killing opposing militia members for LP is so exploitative...I can't believe you guys are seriously talking about it. One of the main problems of a FW system that sits within a larger game design system is the fact it can be so exploitative. If Eve had been made from the ground up in FW as the key PVP design point, I am sure it would rock. But it wasn't, and FW will most likely suck until some magic can address that point. This is very true. CCP not only has to overcome the fact that resources aren't focused on fixing old content (see also: polished content doesn't sell as good as new content) but they can't just wave a magic wand that makes things cool changes to the FW system are welcome, but you can't just say "well I think LP should be based off killing people"... -HOW DO YOU SUGGEST LP should be based off killing people? then follow your idea through to conclusion. Ask yourself this question: -"Can my idea easily be exploited?" if the answer is yes, you are back to the drawing board. Exploiters could also be easily VERY easily caught. rookie ships/shuttles would not count. Wax on Wax off
Liorah	Posted - 2011.04.01 19:05:00 - [144] Originally by: Karash Amerius Killing opposing militia members for LP is so exploitative Sure. It CAN be. That's one of the reason I suggested a scoring system inspired by the points on killboards. If you go in with a bunch of shuttles, you are worth almost no points because you have no offensive capabilities. It would be the same situation if the opposition drops 100 moms on you. Guaranteed wins should have a very low payout, if any at all. Upset victories should reward big. I guess if a couple of people want to let you kill their Titans with a Thrasher, the fail would be so strong that you deserve the massive LP :) (But, I guess since the Titan's weapons wouldn't be effective vs Destroyers, the LP payout shouldn't be as big as it might otherwise seem) Two fleets of noobships facing off against each other would be hilarious and probably a bunch of fun (til the Discogeddon comes to the party), but the LP payout should make it definitely NOT worth the time it takes. Fights like that should be for fun, not for profit. The trick will be to balance the rewards to make it still an overall net loss to lose a ship to discourage fraud. Remember, FW is supposed to be about a lot of small-scale PvP battles, and a lot of fun. I guess RP too, though I'm not an RP person. It should never be the most efficient way to grind ISK.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.01 19:24:00 - [145] Originally by: Liorah Originally by: Karash Amerius Killing opposing militia members for LP is so exploitative Sure. It CAN be. That's one of the reason I suggested a scoring system inspired by the points on killboards. If you go in with a bunch of shuttles, you are worth almost no points because you have no offensive capabilities. It would be the same situation if the opposition drops 100 moms on you. Guaranteed wins should have a very low payout, if any at all. Upset victories should reward big. I guess if a couple of people want to let you kill their Titans with a Thrasher, the fail would be so strong that you deserve the massive LP :) (But, I guess since the Titan's weapons wouldn't be effective vs Destroyers, the LP payout shouldn't be as big as it might otherwise seem) Two fleets of noobships facing off against each other would be hilarious and probably a bunch of fun (til the Discogeddon comes to the party), but the LP payout should make it definitely NOT worth the time it takes. Fights like that should be for fun, not for profit. The trick will be to balance the rewards to make it still an overall net loss to lose a ship to discourage fraud. Remember, FW is supposed to be about a lot of small-scale PvP battles, and a lot of fun. I guess RP too, though I'm not an RP person. It should never be the most efficient way to grind ISK. Would you have it based on killmails? How do you determine if it was a fair fight with killmails, since they only really show one side, or would it even matter? This idea would actually tie in well to a bounty hunting suggestion that gets thrown around every now and then... have the reward based on the value of the ship and get split between the participants when the ship is killed (where with bounties it would subtract from the total bounty pool placed on them and no insurance payout.) The problem is that it would give a hard LP -> isk value ceiling (if LP value rises high enough, people will start cashing in ships for LP.) On the other hand if LP is based on the difference in ships (dessies killing BSes) you have a weird reward system where people will bring along a noob ship alt, take a potshot and warp away.
Meeogi Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.01 19:48:00 - [146] Edited by: Meeogi on 01/04/2011 19:52:19 Well i still like the idea..of having even a different form of LP...like Militia combat credits . You can use those for combat stuff...like getting an npc frig gang to help or something. But cannot be sold on market. Yes they should absolutely scale up... Leave the LP store for mission *****s. But can we at least agree that rank should come from combat? I really like the idea of a little eve mail asking how your FC did... a highly voted up FC will show it in his rank. Set it up ....so you can only gain LP points from a certain person 1ce every 3-7 days... that will stop alt account exploitation...or make them morons for trying. But just saying...people will exploit NOOO ...There is always a solution. Wax on Wax off
Dunn Idaho Caldari Core Impulse	Posted - 2011.04.01 19:49:00 - [147] Make it so only systems that are adjacent to one another can be fought over, this will atleast create an ilusion of frontline beeing fought over. Instead of all the backsystems no one flys in beeing plexed over. And there needs to be a way to win FW.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.01 19:52:00 - [148] Originally by: Dunn Idaho And there needs to be a way to win FW. Well, first there needs to be a reason to fight for more than the 1 faction, but I'm pretty sure the disparity between payouts of different factions is old and ignored news to CCP.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.04.01 21:01:00 - [149] Originally by: CCP Manifest Hola again. I had a brief chat with CCP Zulu and brought this thread to his attention as well as the /facepalm re: Fanfest panel. Having been an active member of the Minnie militia, a lot of things in this thread rang true with me as well. I got into it as an intro to PvP. After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. Thank you for pushing this and making some internal discussions on FW happen! I love you man! Follow Flynn on Twitter
Agallis Zinthros Amarr Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.04.01 21:36:00 - [150] What's FW? It's not piracy, its surprise PVP.

Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.04.01 21:39:00 - [151] Edited by: Yakov Pavlov on 01/04/2011 22:03:17 Edited by: Yakov Pavlov on 01/04/2011 22:01:39 Quote: ...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I'm sorry .. I'm unimpressed with this response. Essentially he's said that despite years of clamoring for dev attention on this feature, he poked his head in to see what the hubbub was about. There is no clarity that the Devs understand the content of the complaints or even recognize that there's a problem. Hey he got a kill so why are you moaning?! Patronizing to say the least. The burden is on the devs to show some good faith effort at substantively responding and communicating. Instead we get the boilerplate. We'll look into things. The only thing the Devs agreed on is that there is a lack of communication and they're hammering out what they're gonna say. Dollars to donuts, that's a PR strategy polish the turd that is FW. Mission Accompluished .. Bone thrown ... pathetic
Scanner717	Posted - 2011.04.02 01:09:00 - [152] If they honestly think they can just 'hold out' until World of Darkness is complete they're nuts. Even if they do get that thing out the door in a couple of years CCP will have such a bad name with EVE no one will humor them on any shortcomings with WoD. we will simply assume whatever is wrong during the beta will persist and people will play whatever else will be around at that time. FW, Lowsec, Null, and Highsec are suffering fairly equally from lack of content and the high account numbers is only a symptom of the massive botting problem not of actual player retention. Old accounts don't die they just get ebay'd
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.02 01:30:00 - [153] What the FW guys need to do is get one of the devs bestest friends in the game to care about FW. Maybe go through the Scrapheap challenge guys. CCP does whatever SHC tells them to do.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.04.02 01:42:00 - [154] Originally by: mkmin CCP does whatever SHC tells them to do. hahahahaha, haha, ahh....you're too funny _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.04.02 01:47:00 - [155] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: mkmin CCP does whatever SHC tells them to do. hahahahaha, haha, ahh....you're too funny Yeah. It's really funny when a dev does screws over large parts of the player base and says "we did it because SHC told us to." Happened before. The upcoming **-patch sounds like that's where it came from. If anyone wants their special interest project implemented (even if it's a big pile of horse**) send it through SHC, where CCP will proceed to start sucking. Or maybe the FW guys can use the power of the SHC suck-fest for something positive and get FW updated.
Jireel	Posted - 2011.04.02 02:03:00 - [156] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: mkmin CCP does whatever SHC tells them to do. hahahahaha, haha, ahh....you're too funny Yeah. It's really funny when a dev does screws over large parts of the player base and says "we did it because SHC told us to." Happened before. The upcoming **-patch sounds like that's where it came from. If anyone wants their special interest project implemented (even if it's a big pile of horse**) send it through SHC, where CCP will proceed to start sucking. Or maybe the FW guys can use the power of the SHC suck-fest for something positive and get FW updated. Dude you said in another post you'd quit. Would you do it right now and stop whining everywhere please ?
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.04.02 02:03:00 - [157] Originally by: mkmin ..."we did it because SHC told us to." Happened before. proof or...well, i won't tell you to stfu, but i will definitely laugh at you some more Quote: The upcoming **-patch sounds like that's where it came from. If anyone wants their special interest project implemented (even if it's a big pile of horse**) send it through SHC you are like a neverending fountain of hilarity, please don't ever stop posting _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2011.04.02 03:30:00 - [158] What about FW and DUST 514? The first DUST trailer was pretty much tied directly to the FW Gallente/Caldari storyline. Surely they must be integrated? ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.04.02 05:02:00 - [159] Originally by: CCP Manifest Hola again. I had a brief chat with CCP Zulu and brought this thread to his attention as well as the /facepalm re: Fanfest panel. Having been an active member of the Minnie militia, a lot of things in this thread rang true with me as well. I got into it as an intro to PvP. After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. Uhhhh..... wow. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.02 07:14:00 - [160] CCP do seem to have sat up and taken note on this thread. Cheers to ydpd for coming back and moaning to corp and thanx to har for starting this thread.

Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:01:00 - [161] Originally by: mkmin What the FW guys need to do is get one of the devs bestest friends in the game to care about FW. Maybe go through the Scrapheap challenge guys. CCP does whatever SHC tells them to do. God, if only. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
ITTigerClawIK Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:09:00 - [162] Edited by: ITTigerClawIK on 02/04/2011 11:08:54 Originally by: Marconus Orion Maybe a live dev blog where players can ask questions and stuff could be scheduled to make up for this? Make a good portion of it about faction warfare? This mistake can easily be redeemed. Brilliant idea i would like to second this Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:18:00 - [163] FW: PvE in low sec with an Empire based war dec system in an NRDS game. I don't understand why it didnt work.
monkfish1234 Caldari The Knights of Spamalot	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:23:00 - [164] personally i thought fw started out really well, loads of people got involved and there was some decent pvp that didnt revolve around sov. pretty shortly after the novelty wore off, and the rewards did not promote fighting, this inevitably leads to the pvpers leaving and the carebears moving in. all that is really needed is a shift in where the rewards of fw come from. In my mind we have enough mission that i wouldn't miss fw missions. LP should be coming from combat / plexs in a similar way as incursions now work (the greatest rewards from pvp) possibly using some sort of system wide bonus' which would give some incentive to occupying areas of space. in short, if you can find a way to reward pvp in a balanced way fw can work, right now it doesnt. ------------------------------------------------ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels.StevieSG
Tyburn Stannis Caldari Xenon Salvage Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:27:00 - [165] Fair play CCP Manifest for putting your head over the pa****t several times on this unfortunate incident, the fanfest faux pas has been apologised for in about as plain a manner as you could imagine. But how to "fix" FW... and how to run any discussion or dialogue, that's a different matter :P
Mak Gruber	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:30:00 - [166] Originally by: Ioci Edited by: Ioci on 02/04/2011 11:18:02 FW: PvE in low sec with an Empire based war dec system in an NBSI game. I don't understand why it didnt work. No .......it was cool until it turned into a money machine. and folks realized the profits.
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.04.02 11:45:00 - [167] Originally by: Mak Gruber Originally by: Ioci Edited by: Ioci on 02/04/2011 11:18:02 FW: PvE in low sec with an Empire based war dec system in an NBSI game. I don't understand why it didnt work. No .......it was cool until it turned into a money machine. and folks realized the profits. I doubt it. Granted it might be ISK now. You might say those people won. The original goal was to control the systems so you could make profit. if people had kept up the "original purpose" of PvP it would have been another killmail farming tool that saw ISK go in to the gutter. Even in its prime, all FW served to do was consolidate low sec player bases. Nobody from high sec ventured to low sec and stayed there as a result of it. Null people did give it a try but returned to null when it got boring. TBH I don't know what they had in it for long term goal. To essentially "hold Sov" in lesser space?
Hamish Nuwen Gallente Escuadron Federal de Asalto	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:09:00 - [168] My 2 cents: - Fix the opposite-occupancy plex spawns in any moment of the day, not only the DT, for Timelord's sake. - FW missions are a mistake. They are not bound to any of the mechanics of the FW, only had been introduced as a "fix" to give an economical reward to FW participants. They should be removed, and replaced by a "FW mechanics"-based reward. For example: give LPs to all the participants in the occupancy of a enemy solar system (change VPs to LPs at any ratio) only if and when the system is conquered. If the system is not conquered, there is not reward. If the system is absolutely decontested by defensive forces, then the VP counts are reset to zero. (Yeah, this has a lack: rewards -incentives- for the defenders, but we can think in something similar for them). And now a bit of crazy stuff: a second player-driven source of FW incomings may be a FW-conquered-solar-systems-based gambling system, where any player (not only FW participants) could risk his/her money betting for one of the warring sides in a contested system. In that scenario a player can be economically encouraged (or discouraged ) by his own bets... or by third parties that has interests in any sense.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.04.02 16:22:00 - [169] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 02/04/2011 16:22:39 I'm all for rewarding FW PVP and I'm sure that CCP can come up with some way to do that. However I strongly dislike the way that plexes work so I'm not such a fan of simply rewarding their current incarnation. I'm also not a huge fan of FW missions, but I think they're actually working out fairly well. Specifically, I think they fit in well for the kind of missions that can (should?) be done in low sec. One thing that's been tumbling around in the back of my mind for a really long time is the fact that the empires are really built by their industries. I'd feel a lot better killing empire NPCs in plexes if I knew that someone had built them and put them there - something like an engineer class in certain popular FPSs. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.04.02 21:57:00 - [170] FW mIssions are ok, It's nice that unlike Level 4's in high-sec they force you to travel around, and it's good that they encourage people to PVP, though, most people use bombers which means you can pretty much avoid PVP if you so wish. There has been talk about LP for kills which is kinda nice idea, but obviously it's open to being exploited. But that kind of system would just drive people off to do their own things I think it might be better to offer rewards and a reason for people to actually get together and PVP for an objective. I do like the idea of making isk part of a group mechanic, a little like incursions, where you have to bring a smaller fleet to take on the mission rats, but that you can also get jumped by the Faction fleets. Also maybe have a system where the longer you hold a system for then there is a small % reduction on the cost of equipment in the LP store or something. And personally, I'd like to feel more like I am actually fighting for my Faction, that they, as an empire, are invested in the objectives of FW. I want to feel immersed in that part of the lore, as much as I want to be encouraged and rewarded for fighting and making gains for that faction. Follow Flynn on Twitter

UJust Lost TheGAME	Posted - 2011.04.02 22:17:00 - [171] Originally by: Cosmic Raider Your mistake was thinking that CCP cares. Edited for content.
Liorah	Posted - 2011.04.03 01:07:00 - [172] Originally by: mkmin Would you have it based on killmails? cough No :) I'm riding on the assumption that the people who wrote the game, and that the ones who decided what information to put in the killmails out of all of the information possible, are able to take the available information and reasonably determine victory potential, and assign points. Originally by: mkmin This idea would actually tie in well to a bounty hunting suggestion that gets thrown around every now and then... have the reward based on the value of the ship and get split between the participants when the ship is killed (where with bounties it would subtract from the total bounty pool placed on them and no insurance payout.) The problem is that it would give a hard LP -> isk value ceiling (if LP value rises high enough, people will start cashing in ships for LP.) On the other hand if LP is based on the difference in ships (dessies killing BSes) you have a weird reward system where people will bring along a noob ship alt, take a potshot and warp away. Different topic of discussion, but unfortunately I don't think a player-run or player-enforced bounty system will ever be one that isn't ripe for abuse. But for the specific abuse situation of a Noobship taking a potshot at a BS kill, award LP not just based on the different ships, but the damage the ships do as well (for combat ships; logis and ewar would be classified differently). There is a wealth of information available for battles that CCP has access to, and a playerbase that has more imagination and creativity than all of CCP combined. Even if ultimately LP isn't rewarded for PVP combat, as long as CCP stays open and there is genuine two-way conversation about improvements being made instead of unilaterally declaring what will happen (usually short-sightedly), the results will be positive. It will boil down to the question, Does CCP want to truly make FW (and all of EVE) something truly amazing and the best that it could possibly be, or do they just want to perform damage control and offer lip service while doing the minimum amount of work possible?
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.03 01:18:00 - [173] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 03/04/2011 01:21:56 Originally by: CCP Manifest but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, It's not an FC thing. It's a CCP thing. When CCP showed over and over again that you were in the process of trying your hardest to kill FW the players followed this lead. It was at a critical point about a year ago after a year plus of neglect and the screams for action were ignored. You allowed your best feature to rot on the vine while chasing dust. edit: Just to reinterate, there is nothing much wrong with FW how it was designed. The game designers thought of most stuff and it really fits together well, in a way I'm sure no one in CCP understands correctly. The mechanics are brilliant, when they work you can have many hours of dynamic evolving PvP with plexing being the thing that mixes it up. The problem is not in the mechanics design. It's in the code. The code for this mechanic has never worked correctly, it is a collection of bugs, not a need for redesign or changes. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.04.03 01:57:00 - [174] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith The code for this mechanic has never worked correctly, it is a collection of bugs, not a need for redesign or changes. Disagree. There needs to be a reason to care about occupancy beyond roleplay.
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.03 02:25:00 - [175] Agreed, I can't see why for every constellation (or even a system)captured the militias would reep some reward like increased PI / bounties / pos fuel requirements - what ever just some thing. (like the mechanics in 0.0) All have presented CCP with great ideas so lets see you step up to the mark CCP and inject more life back into FW. Here are a few of my own: While I dont agree with the plex spawn mechanics and the ability to speed tank them as a short term fix I would like to see all npc have to be destroyed to capture the plex. I do like the different size plexes as it forces pvp in all scales. My second biggest concern is the mismatch in the factions to run fw missions (a stealth bomber should not be able to solo a lvl 4 fw mission and complete the objective in min by just having to pop haulers or stargate.)or solo speed tank fw plexes. Running with the theme once a system changes hands let the fw agent and station change hands as well, that will force the fights for systems and agents. example if houla had 2 x lvl 4 Q 20 agents you take the system you get the agents and the rewards of now having the better agents. CCP I really hope you take interest this time and bring FW back to some thing that every one raves about once again and not all talk and no show.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.03 02:44:00 - [176] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Originally by: Dr BattleSmith The code for this mechanic has never worked correctly, it is a collection of bugs, not a need for redesign or changes. Disagree. There needs to be a reason to care about occupancy beyond roleplay. Maybe.... but it has to come AFTER the mechanic itself is fixed. See this gameplay had plenty of people willing to play it no incentive is needed, it just needs to work as intended. * First make the existing mechanic work for more then 3h a day. * Then you'll get a chance to see how it works when it's working. * Then you can decide if you need further incentives. Really, when it works, and if you've seen it work, no incentive is required beyond the awesome gameplay. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.04.03 02:46:00 - [177] Originally by: Lost InCogneto Agreed, I can't see why for every constellation (or even a system)captured the militias would reep some reward like increased PI / bounties / pos fuel requirements - what ever just some thing. (like the mechanics in 0.0) All have presented CCP with great ideas so lets see you step up to the mark CCP and inject more life back into FW. Here are a few of my own: While I dont agree with the plex spawn mechanics and the ability to speed tank them as a short term fix I would like to see all npc have to be destroyed to capture the plex. I do like the different size plexes as it forces pvp in all scales. My second biggest concern is the mismatch in the factions to run fw missions (a stealth bomber should not be able to solo a lvl 4 fw mission and complete the objective in min by just having to pop haulers or stargate.)or solo speed tank fw plexes. Running with the theme once a system changes hands let the fw agent and station change hands as well, that will force the fights for systems and agents. example if houla had 2 x lvl 4 Q 20 agents you take the system you get the agents and the rewards of now having the better agents. CCP I really hope you take interest this time and bring FW back to some thing that every one raves about once again and not all talk and no show. Any repeating set of missions, people are going to be able to figure out how to powergame them. There are people who solo level 5s. Making missions harder or so they couldn't be done with a single sb is just going to make people run them with an alt in a speedtank. Basically, so long as missions of any kind exist, they will 1) suck and 2) be able to be powergamed. I love your idea about capturable FW agents, though. That is gold. My idea for FW is this: use the incursions code, and players get LP for fighting off enemy incursions, or supporting friendly incursions. So the Minmatar launch an offensive into the Jayai constellation. The longer it progresses, the more onlined magic future modules reduce potential capsuleer influence with the Navy's plans (just like how current incursions work). Sites are spawned, like "Minmatar Fortress" and "Minmatar Convoy," but also Amarr sites, like "Amarr redoubt." FW players get LP and enemy faction items from defeating enemy sites. Side bonus to this system: more cynojams in FW space means less hotdrops. Booo on hotdrops.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.03 09:29:00 - [178] My Grand Vision, posted all those moons ago. The overall vision hasn't changed although one could add features from Incursion and include PI efficiency in rewards - maybe even let PI output increase the amount of work the enemy has to do to flip system back.
Hemmo Paskiainen Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2011.04.03 11:59:00 - [179] Originally by: CCP Manifest Hola again. I had a brief chat with CCP Zulu and brought this thread to his attention as well as the /facepalm re: Fanfest panel. Having been an active member of the Minnie militia, a lot of things in this thread rang true with me as well. I got into it as an intro to PvP. After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. Dear CCP Manifest, I have been following forums for over 2,5 yrs now. I just want to point out politely that u experience exactly what is wrong in some areas. I'm talking about lack of interest of ccp employees in some EVE departments that simply get ignored time after time and have a very big influence on the "EVE experience". That experience creates the more becoming general dislike towards ccp competence from players. Networks are everywhere these days. Especially among gamers. In the gaming segment online multiplayer's most people know friends or are in clans with other games playing same games. More dislike means more negative reputation. Followed by people stepping over to other games. It's really nice of u to react to this issue. It doesn't happens often. It makes people see that they are not talking to a brick wall every time. I'm a marketing student and form a marketing perspective i foresee increasing negative rep and more old subscribers leaving and the new subscribers sticking only to the game until the don't get anymore why they pay each month for this game. From a player point of view there are several negative comments about ccp that u can put into categories. The one that i find most important and is shared with many more people is that people don't believe anymore that the ones inventing content, alter content and review content are not sufficialy known with the game. It sounds strange but it comes down to a general believe that ccp devs don't play the game anymore on some areas. In example; take a look in the assembly hall section, look how many topics are raised about certain issue's. Of course eve must evolve with the gaming industry but that is not a reason to neglect the core foundation of EVE!!!!!! It is funny that even after the past few months dislike ccp still keeps sending out messages that they have no intentions to fix a certain aspect of the game that is considered a core business aspect of eve. This FW topic is just a highlighter. I hope by now u get where I'm going to. I'm a creative persone and i like to give people stuff to think about, so i will put down some statements and i let u do the thinking work: Commitment to Exellance; marketing strategy announced 2010 fanfest, means: more quality Corebusiness of EVE; Sandbox: Industry, pvp, missions, other pve content -high sec; Mostly occupied by new players doing industry, missions some PVE -Low sec; Mostly occupied by a bit older players missions, minimal industry, piraty (pvp) -Null-sec; Mosty occupied by old players (<1yr) doing pve and mosty pvp Eve economy; what drives what? What is the motor of the eve economy (hint; it aren't missions nor cosmics) Check Assembly Hall now; Entire races are broken; Entire ship classes are broken, designed in the prehistory to be never looked at again. I can perfectly tie that issue to the FW dev issue, all sighs of neglecting are coming out a lack of experience or interest. And that brings me back to the question i & alot of fellow corp/alliance/player mates have asked themselves; Do devs actually pvp? This is a rhetorical question since i know the answer, but feel free to point this issue out and make eve back to what it was at some point. How many people are getting touched daily by the sighs of this fail... My guess would be the people involved with the particularly amount of fail. How many are that? How many people have alts in high sec and are active across multiple True Sec sectors? When u think about this, would it be a surprise if u get so many negative input on these forums? Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.03 12:00:00 - [180] My Grand Vision - great write up. Would like to see those points added to this thread to keep it alive and get some really great ideas brought up with CCP. CCP Manifest care to help us on our cause .............

jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.04.03 13:49:00 - [181] Originally by: Aineko Macx For the record: Apparently also no dev went to the golden circle tour like stated. At least I didn't spot one nor did I hear from anyone who was with one. sorry ...i have to correct you on that one .I spent most of my time talking to ccp Helgimar who is head of HR for ccp there also was another dev on our bus but i dont recall his name. So YOUR WRONG ON THIS ONE plenty of others on our bus can confirm this . destroy everything you touch
Dogo Duma	Posted - 2011.04.03 14:44:00 - [182] Originally by: jason hill Originally by: Aineko Macx For the record: Apparently also no dev went to the golden circle tour like stated. At least I didn't spot one nor did I hear from anyone who was with one. sorry ...i have to correct you on that one .I spent most of my time talking to ccp Helgimar who is head of HR for ccp there also was another dev on our bus but i dont recall his name. So YOUR WRONG ON THIS ONE plenty of others on our bus can confirm this . Afaik that guy works at HR but the place is ran by a French lady formerly from EA since a few months. Helgi often pops up on twitter posting about job positions.

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.04.03 17:36:00 - [183] Originally by: ITTigerClawIK Edited by: ITTigerClawIK on 02/04/2011 11:08:54 Originally by: Marconus Orion Maybe a live dev blog where players can ask questions and stuff could be scheduled to make up for this? Make a good portion of it about faction warfare? This mistake can easily be redeemed. Brilliant idea i would like to second this I already brought up the idea of a live dev blog about FW as an analagous replacement for the FW session missed at Fanfest. We all agreed that in terms of content, breadth, manpower required etc, it would actually be better for everyone to get things down "on paper" first instead of via a live format--especially since most current questions about FW are pretty much the same that have persisted for months if not years. Perhaps later on we could then reserve a portion of a live dev blog about FW. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute


CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.04.03 17:37:00 - [184] Originally by: Dogo Duma Originally by: jason hill Originally by: Aineko Macx For the record: Apparently also no dev went to the golden circle tour like stated. At least I didn't spot one nor did I hear from anyone who was with one. sorry ...i have to correct you on that one .I spent most of my time talking to ccp Helgimar who is head of HR for ccp there also was another dev on our bus but i dont recall his name. So YOUR WRONG ON THIS ONE plenty of others on our bus can confirm this . Afaik that guy works at HR but the place is ran by a French lady formerly from EA since a few months. Helgi often pops up on twitter posting about job positions. Yep, that's right. Helgi's part of the recruiting team and we've nabbed a top notch HR person, Sophie (who is French), to head up the whole department as we've increased in size. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute


CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.04.03 17:38:00 - [185] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida My Grand Vision, posted all those moons ago. The overall vision hasn't changed although one could add features from Incursion and include PI efficiency in rewards - maybe even let PI output increase the amount of work the enemy has to do to flip system back. Thanks for reposting this. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.04 00:40:00 - [186] Originally by: CCP Manifest Originally by: ITTigerClawIK Edited by: ITTigerClawIK on 02/04/2011 11:08:54 Originally by: Marconus Orion Maybe a live dev blog where players can ask questions and stuff could be scheduled to make up for this? Make a good portion of it about faction warfare? This mistake can easily be redeemed. Brilliant idea i would like to second this I already brought up the idea of a live dev blog about FW as an analagous replacement for the FW session missed at Fanfest. We all agreed that in terms of content, breadth, manpower required etc, it would actually be better for everyone to get things down "on paper" first instead of via a live format--especially since most current questions about FW are pretty much the same that have persisted for months if not years. Perhaps later on we could then reserve a portion of a live dev blog about FW. What do we need to do to assist you with this? You have seen that there are a number of people who are interested in this and therefore it is safe to assume that some of them want to assit CCP with improving FW. To me, the first thing to tackle are some of the bugs like the spawn mechanics and the NPC balance. Longer term, changes to mechanics and new features could then be looked at. I would love to see Soundwave's team look at some of this - the work they have been doing lately has been awesome. <tl;dr> Acknowledgement of the fanfest snafu is great - how do we go to the next stage?
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.04 03:29:00 - [187] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 04/04/2011 03:29:46 This might help.... Given that the mechanics work only for a few hours a day the people who understand them are limited. Here is a list of some I know who understand in some detail how the broken mechanics "work". Eran Mintor Lost Incognito sasawong Bdericks S5family Condor Amarr boris thebutcher Braitai Would be a good idea to talk to these people at length before deciding on redesigns. Raise your hand if you've PvP plexed within 3h of downtime enough to "get it". ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.04 04:46:00 - [188] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 04/04/2011 03:29:46 This might help.... Given that the mechanics work only for a few hours a day the people who understand them are limited. Here is a list of some I know who understand in some detail how the broken mechanics "work". Eran Mintor Lost Incognito sasawong Bdericks S5family Condor Amarr boris thebutcher Braitai Would be a good idea to talk to these people at length before deciding on redesigns. Raise your hand if you've PvP plexed within 3h of downtime enough to "get it". These are all good people - many from my corp/militia or the opposition militia and would form a sound starting point. Bdericks has left FW along with a number of other "senior" FW members due to the current state of FW. One can only hope that CCP responds quickly to this as I am seeing many long time Amarr militia pilots leaving for better PvP opportunities.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.04.04 04:54:00 - [189] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Raise your hand if you've PvP plexed within 3h of downtime enough to "get it". On the Gallente end of things, the players to consult would be: Val Erian Dopified Ranger B There are probably others I'm forgetting as well.
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.04 06:31:00 - [190] What alot of fw would like to see is : Unable to cloak up inside a mission. System to mean something, Get rid of the bunker and have Conquerable Station's, When the station is taken the agent is then offline.Making some systems key systems because of the agent inside. The station should only let that faction dock. We also like If a member of the miltia member is attacked they get small standing hit to that faction.All fw member taking hits to the factions we attack but neutral can hunt fw then go and park in ie: jita / amarr, making neutral rp allince's and not just say we pick a side. This would be hard on the codes writer's but when this game started everyone said it could not be done the game was a trailer & not game play, we want that ccp back.

Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.04 06:51:00 - [191] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith This might help.... You mention my arch nemesis Sasawong but not me? sniff Would be pretty awesome if a handful from all militias got a chance to sit down and talk it through with a Dev, you know like the roundtable that never was Perhaps even invite reps from EM, CVA, U'K, CAIN etc. to get input on how RP/Alliances can interact with the whole thing in a meaningful way. Originally by: Lord Meriak Unable to cloak up inside a mission. Band-aid for a severed limb will not save the patient Read the link quoted in #185 to see what I thought would save FW back in late 2009. Two or three other threads around the same time that were packed with ideas worth digging up.
durka dreckly	Posted - 2011.04.04 08:03:00 - [192] Just fix it or kill it.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.04 08:05:00 - [193] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 04/04/2011 08:06:30 Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Originally by: Dr BattleSmith This might help.... You mention my arch nemesis Sasawong but not me? sniff lol ^^ him too. I actually just went to an old after-DT Arzad fight and right in the first battle report were most of the people who have actually played the FW mechanic and seen it working. :-) edit: Now this is the thing, it's just so sad that CCP spent time on this code, and so few got to see it working, when all it needs is a few hours work. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.04 12:24:00 - [194] In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)? It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.04.04 12:37:00 - [195] Add the incursion factor into FW. Say theres a Caldari Incursion in Gallente FW space each faction can fight along side their NPC factions this would have special LP and/or rewards. When a faction takes a system have it so the system slowly changes towards that faction. Stations in system will 1 by 1 start to be owned by that factions npc corps and open up reg mission and FW mission agents. Make the system dynamic so it actually is world shaping which is something that was promised when FW was released. Hell even make it slowly rise in sec status and allow it to shift into highsec. That way the FW pilots could then continue to fight for the system w/o interference from pirates/others. Ok Iam tired so the last idea might be stupid.
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous IMPERIAL LEGI0N	Posted - 2011.04.04 13:06:00 - [196] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Hell even make it slowly rise in sec status and allow it to shift into highsec. That way the FW pilots could then continue to fight for the system w/o interference from pirates/others. Ok Iam tired so the last idea might be stupid. If FW allowed true change in sovereignty along a sec status scale, then it would be truly interesting. Eg: A system starts out as (for example) a Gallente 0.8. Successive Caldari victories could lower the sec to 0.5. At this point there would be some kind of "milestone event" - maybe something like a week-long "Caldari Incursion" where the players have to try and influence some large NPC battles at the stations or gates. Assuming a Caldari victory, have CONCORD delare the system an "escalated conflict site" or something like that, then drop sec to 0.4. Then after 4 further normal stages, the sov flips from Gallante 0.1 to Caldari 0.1, and now the Caldari side will now be defending their sov and the Gallante side trying to attack it. Eventually the Caldari side would theoretically be able to raise the sov to Caldari 0.8 The whole process would take weeks, but it would give the FW teams a genuine reason to fight, it would make FW relevant to the rest of the game, and it would allow the players to redesign the map (albeit extremely gradually). Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.04 18:47:00 - [197] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 04/04/2011 18:48:37 Originally by: Malcanis Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. And this is a problem how? and its actualy a fairly old gameing law. its sometimes called the sesame street effect .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE (Alt list) Rico Lobo
Moolti Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:06:00 - [198] Speaking for myself and not The Electus Matari: I would love to do more for FW. Right now we have to have individual corps drop alliance to join FW. I would love for Alliances to have a better way of joining FW. I tried FW for a while, but while in FW it's all I could do. There was very little way to do anything else. In order to do other stuff, I had to leave FW. Once I left FW, it was easy to stay out of it, and hard to "go do FW for a little bit". I understand how difficult it would be to make this un-expliotable. @)}---^----- The Jove are a warning to us all. We must remember to live and Love and feel. Fall in Love, make Love, be beautful and see the beautiful. For we mustn't loose our human spark
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.05 02:15:00 - [199] Bump Lets keep this topic alive and keep up the support to change fw for the better.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.05 02:46:00 - [200] Originally by: Moolti Speaking for myself and not The Electus Matari: I would love to do more for FW. Right now we have to have individual corps drop alliance to join FW. I would love for Alliances to have a better way of joining FW. I tried FW for a while, but while in FW it's all I could do. There was very little way to do anything else. In order to do other stuff, I had to leave FW. Once I left FW, it was easy to stay out of it, and hard to "go do FW for a little bit". I understand how difficult it would be to make this un-expliotable. It seems to me that the treaty mechanic that has been proposed in the past by CCP would be an excellent way of allowing FW and RP allainces to interact. One other idea I would like to see explored is allowing a SINGLE corp from an alliance to be nominated as their FW affiliated corp (i.e. they are part of the alliance AND militia - similar to how there is an executor corp to control the alliance. The trick here is that FW standigns override all other ones. This could allow CVA or UK for example to have a larger involvement with the militia without the issues of gcc.

Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.05 07:25:00 - [201] Originally by: Moolti Speaking for myself and not The Electus Matari:... Off hand I think you might as well be speaking for EM and U'K and CVA and .. The announcement of FW way back when instilled hope in the RP community that CCP was once again going to make Eve more than an elaborate grind MMO .. they started out really well with VIP objectives but that tapered off and was never followed up. Problem with alliance's in FW (A-in-FW) is the disparity in relative power, something that could be alleviated by having 'zero null holdings' as a requisite (originally suggested by a Dev if I recall). A designated corp with no other requirements would allow for on/off participation which might be great fun but undermines the idea of it being a war and would probably result in all sorts of standings related shenanigans Treaty system might work, but since CCP hasn't even been able to implement it for master-pet in null I wouldn't put too much faith in that solution. We will have to find out if the A-in-FW is of value outside the RP crowd though. If not then there is no need for actual changes as a solution could probably be found using Dev tools for the handful of alliances that are interested.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.05 11:12:00 - [202] I have an alt in FW - just to bump standings really. He's been in there for about 3 weeks running missions. In those 3 weeks I haven't seen a single fight or gatecamp where the people were in FW. I see sasawong from time to time, still doing what he was doing best part of 2 years ago when I first went into FW. Don't really see anyone looking for fights. This is DT +/- 3 hours, which I appreciate is quiet but its the same time period I played in a couple of years ago. Its just wall to wall mission runners now. To be brutally frank I see more FW people fighting in npc null than I do in Heim/Met/Devoid/Bleak Lands. I think its probably time to end FW. However that'd require some sort of plan regarding lowsec and CCP don't have one so might as well just accept it "as is" - it does still allow ridiculous amounts of money to be earned for doing little more than travelling a few jumps.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.05 11:52:00 - [203] Edited by: Bengal Bob on 05/04/2011 11:55:03 Please dear gods, can this move forwards and not be forgotten. Last night, I was seriously considering taking time out for WOT until ccp started fixing FW. Minnies v Amarr is very stale at the moment, people are simply missioning or fleeting up so large they know they won't get a fight. Also, are the new "eyes included" portrait rules because more people are protesting at silly avatar nonsense wasting valuable resources for something that has no impact on game play? Also, I am pretty sure I can get the camera angle nice and low so you may get a shot of a single eye looking up from a minmatar trunk of much girth.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:51:00 - [204] FW missions: pretty much fine. For some races they should be a bit harder/not soloable in a sb. But the ones for amarr a pretty well balanced. Occuapancy plexing: "It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), à.111 faction warfare complexes were captured à I did not kill anyone in the process..ö Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 ItÆs a joke. I think there is somewhat of a split between people who want plexing to involve more red x shooting, or to make the npcs stronger etc. and those who want more pvp. I think eve is long overdue to have some mechanic were small scale pvp is the deciding factor. That is why I support this proposal: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 I would support everything makes pvp the key (e.g., letting militias know when plexes are taken) and be against everything that ruins the pvp. (eg making the npcs much tougher so its mainly a pve activity) The rats currently almost always work to prevent pvp so they are best done away with. The rest (rp whatever) I really donÆt care too much about. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.06 00:42:00 - [205] I believe the missions are balanced as long as plexing is active. With 5-6 fights in the 3h after dt we'd lose as much isk as FW missions could replace. As for plexing, really the only incentive needed is the awesome fights which can be had when the mechanic works. Sure if that isn't enough there are some really good ideas out for how navy/stations/agents/sov/occupancy might respond. Don't get me wrong, I'm a troubleshooter, I like to fix one thing before inventing the next problem. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
Lady Aja Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.06 08:05:00 - [206] bumpitty bump bump bump!
Ropf	Posted - 2011.04.06 08:44:00 - [207] I'm fairly new to EVE an especially FW and pvp as a whole but I'd like to add some of my impressions concerning this issue. I've always been a great fan of PVP, so when I started playing EVE again this year I ofcourse wanted to get into this type of play. Now I've been told that FW was a great way to learn, now I'm not saying that this isn't the case. I must say the pvp aspect of FW hasn't quite lived up to my expectations. Ofcourse I get some good pvp experience from time to time, but not quite as much as I've hoped for. I find myself chasing stealth bombers most of the time, mostly without succes ofcourse. Allthough this is something that atleast gives me something to do, it's far from educative and it get's boring really really fast. I feel that the pvp aspect should be key in FW, not mission running or even plexing. After all I got into it for pvp not running missions or endlessly chasing stealth bombers. What I'd like to see is more rewards for actually fighting the other faction. I'm not going to get into any details about how to do this or any of that, because I feel I do not know enough about this game and it's mechanics to give any reasonable solution. Just wanted to give my two cents in the hope CCP will do something about it, as I've seen/heard alot of people who are in FW alot longer then I have share the same oppinion.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.06 10:16:00 - [208] Originally by: Ropf I'm fairly new to EVE an especially FW and pvp as a whole but I'd like to add some of my impressions concerning this issue. I've always been a great fan of PVP, so when I started playing EVE again this year I ofcourse wanted to get into this type of play. Now I've been told that FW was a great way to learn, now I'm not saying that this isn't the case. I must say the pvp aspect of FW hasn't quite lived up to my expectations. Ofcourse I get some good pvp experience from time to time, but not quite as much as I've hoped for. I find myself chasing stealth bombers most of the time, mostly without succes ofcourse. Allthough this is something that atleast gives me something to do, it's far from educative and it get's boring really really fast. I feel that the pvp aspect should be key in FW, not mission running or even plexing. After all I got into it for pvp not running missions or endlessly chasing stealth bombers. What I'd like to see is more rewards for actually fighting the other faction. I'm not going to get into any details about how to do this or any of that, because I feel I do not know enough about this game and it's mechanics to give any reasonable solution. Just wanted to give my two cents in the hope CCP will do something about it, as I've seen/heard alot of people who are in FW alot longer then I have share the same oppinion. You sound like me 18 months ago 1) Don't bother with trying to catch SBs. Unless you're very very lucky as to where they initially decloak after jump-in or they screw up then you won't catch them in low-sec; 2) Rewards for fighting are easily exploited - all you need is an alt in opposing militia (or even a friend) and you're set to make money; 3) FW plexes are where the fighting should mainly be taking place. However due to them being spawned and closed in the 2-3 hours after DT that doesn't happen much now. The reality of FW now is that virtually nobody cares about system occupancy and most fights are simple gatecamps or station games. I'd venture to suggest that the overwhelming majority of people who are currently in FW are there either to avoid GCC or to run missions. FW is just a free wardec really.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.06 16:11:00 - [209] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 06/04/2011 16:12:45 Originally by: Othran You sound like me 18 months ago ... Aaah, those were the days. When rainbows still had colour and hope bubbled in ones heart. They made it out of exploration and duct-tape which restricts it to the current state. But CCP has already shown that the spawn mechanic is fixable, Incursion have that spawns can are DT independent, should be possible to modify that mechanic for FW plexes. Why they don't have devs working on updating old code as they develop new tools/code and acquire new hardware is beyond me .. so many things from Incursions that would do very nicely indeed in FW/Low-sec.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.04.06 21:07:00 - [210] Bump. Incidentally, the last two QEN's discussed the positive effect of PvP on the economy, as well as the dangerous trend of fewer PvP incidents per player. If you're serious about increasing the pew pew, CCP, try a revamp of one of its most accessible forms.

Super Chair Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:04:00 - [211] I love faction war. I've been in it for over a year and it makes me sad that the populations on both fronts are dropping. I am hoping for some new or changed mechanics that can create some incentives to PvP. As it stands now, the plexing "war" is just afk orbiting buttons. There is the occasional fight to be had but for a player (especially if they are new/broke) to be orbiting buttons with no real incentive or reward (by reward, I mean other than standings increases that you get because those tend to go by fast). They could be better off flying with a blob (and get fights) or missioning for isk. I really would like the idea (that has been proposed time and time again) to tie plexes and LP together. It takes twenty minutes to capture a major plex(that is, 20 minutes unopposed, capturing plexes that are fought over can take much longer...). I can run 2 or 3 level 4's in that time, getting at least 60-75+ million isk in that time. If a plex rewarded players LP there would be more incentive to first off, actually enter those plexes. Second, there would be a reason to fight over them other than the obvious RP crowd reasons. More players would plex, creating more small gang fights. The second thing is we as players are generally unwelcoming to newer players entering faction war. I've been on both the caldari and gallente side and I would say it's probably just as bad as a new player trying to get into 0.0 action. As militias we need to be willing to accept newer players, let them see some action. Otherwise theyd just get bored like they are now, never really enter lowsec and eventually just leave faction war. If we want to see more fights and more fun we need to increase the populations (and by population, i mean PvPers, not missioners) of each militia. Your gang outnumbered? Never seem to get enough people to take on the opposing blob, but you're unwilling to accept newer players? That's a problem. Turning people away is not a good solution. TL;DR Make plexes reward LP. Until CCP implements better mechanics we, as FW players need to carry better attitudes to improve FW on our own.
Zendoren Gallente Aktaeon Industries	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:09:00 - [212] Originally by: CCP Manifest especially since most current questions about FW are pretty much the same that have persisted for months if not years. Well if you fix the things that people have been complaining about for years, we would not need a brainstorming session on more questions that are based on a FW system that may or may not be around after you fix said issues. If rockets are any indication as to how long things like this take to get fixed, we should see FW fixed in about 5 years.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:54:00 - [213] Originally by: Shaalira D'arc Bump. Incidentally, the last two QEN's discussed the positive effect of PvP on the economy, as well as the dangerous trend of fewer PvP incidents per player. If you're serious about increasing the pew pew, CCP, try a revamp of one of its most accessible forms. Definately agree with this. Some of the Amarr/Minnie militia fights (Late Nite) see billions of losses on both sides. Eventually this requires a trip to Amarr or Rens etc... to resupply. This HAS to be good for the economy as well as the game in general. Now if only we could get some love from CCP to make FW attractive and to promote even more PvP...
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 09:58:00 - [214] bump
DeT Resprox Minmatar T.R.I.A.D	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:26:00 - [215] I would be very interested to see what comes of this. I have tried multiple times to contact CCP in regards to carrying FW forwards with no luck Manifest, as someone who has taken part in FW yourself with Minmatar, you may know already about the T.R.I.A.D Agency system which has been extensively covered by CCP/ISD throughout its evolving. This is currently limited to our corporation only being able to issue missions to those of high Minmatar standing. FW members are able to take up our missions to gain Loyalty Points for killing Amarr and Caldari targets, as well as rewards for plexing and full blown campaigns such as 'Into The Abyss'. This is very very very close to being in a position for global release to other corporations where i will be in the process of contacting strong Roleplay corporations on each side (such as PIE and 1st Praetorian Guard of Amarr). The global agency i am set to release will allow multiple FW corporations to own their own agency and generate missions. Enemy corporations who own an agency are given auto-generated counter-missions against enemy corporations etc. I believe this will add depth to the richness of Faction Roleplay based upon the backstory of EvE with the full ability to follow along the evolving EvE storyline plot - an example of that was our Sansha campaign where defenders gains Loyalty Points and rewards with us for defending Minmatar and Gallente systems. A global agency for such future campaigns would generate counter campaigns within enemy corporations to put a stop to a defensive campaign for example. Loyalty Points through plexing in Faction Warfare is also handed out through the T.R.I.A.D Agency system. Further Loyalty Points are given for changing the state of an enemy system and the Occupancy itself! I would very much like to speak with CCP about the prospects of this if possible. This is something that i am very passionate about in seeing the storyline of EvE presented to the playerbase and pushing it forwards in adding to the player experience be it in Faction Warfare or otherwise and it is my belief that this is fully capable (as has been proven as a standalone corp model) of doing it. DeT Resprox T.R.I.A.D CEO INGAME CHANNEL: TRIAD AGENCY

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:54:00 - [216] Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums. Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet. Now, back to the topic at hand. IÆve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on. I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Muad 'dib Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:02:00 - [217] Originally by: DeT Resprox Player run player missions inc pvp reward machanics wowzers cant belive i didnt know about this, sounds like an excellent start!! Originally by: CCP Manifest Comments about FW development meetings very reassuring!!! thanks Manifest! :D Meep Meep!
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:54:00 - [218] Originally by: CCP Manifest Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums. Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet. Now, back to the topic at hand. IÆve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on. I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community. Just wanted to thank you for posting so responsively here. It's pretty rare that someone form CCP interacts with players on a specific topic as much as you have and I'm personally very grateful.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.11 11:20:00 - [219] bump
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.04.11 18:14:00 - [220] Bumping a promising discussion, and hoping more information about that roadmap session will come out soon.

Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.11 18:25:00 - [221] Originally by: CCP Manifest Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums. Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet. Now, back to the topic at hand. IÆve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on. I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community. Thanks for trying but the tl;dr of that is "We'd like to keep you happy but nobody is working on this on anything other than code maintenance, nor is there any plan for anyone to do so" Kill FW. Are the Empires going to be at "war" forever with SFA going on? Do the decent thing and kill it, its been on a DNR list (do not resuscitate) for years so turn life support off and come up with a plan for low-sec.
Bane Loppknow Pel Industries	Posted - 2011.04.11 20:35:00 - [222] I would have thought Faction Warfare would be a nice, easy way to tie in DUST, and therefore would be somewhat high on CCP's to-do list.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.12 00:22:00 - [223] I've come to the realisation that CCP is not the same company they were 2 years ago. Nothing will fix this. ** WHITEWOLF CCP Nathan:** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.12 01:03:00 - [224] Edited by: rootimus maximus on 12/04/2011 01:06:56 Originally by: Brooks Puuntai When a faction takes a system have it so the system slowly changes towards that faction. Stations in system will 1 by 1 start to be owned by that factions npc corps and open up reg mission and FW mission agents. Make the system dynamic so it actually is world shaping which is something that was promised when FW was released. Hell even make it slowly rise in sec status and allow it to shift into highsec. That way the FW pilots could then continue to fight for the system w/o interference from pirates/others. Having FW genuinely impact the game world like this would make me want to give it a try. I've been playing for a few years now, and I've always been disappointed with the huge disconnect between storyline and actual gameplay. Originally by: CCP Manifest The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on. Obviously, CCP has to make a profit or Eve really will die. That said, getting community input before making decisions and paying attention to it (unlike all the feedback you got from testing the new forum), is surely going to lead to a lot less disappointment from the players. Throw in an ignore option so we can shut out the trolls and that would be pretty epic.
Nathvas	Posted - 2011.04.12 01:47:00 - [225] Edited by: Nathvas on 12/04/2011 01:57:03 Edited by: Nathvas on 12/04/2011 01:48:24 Part of the problem is, from my experience, is that factions missions are too easy. LVL 4 missions can be completed in a SB, which is not easy to catch with bubbles and since we cant't bubbles. Catching a SB is near impossible. This has lead to FW to be flooded with people doing FW missions for isk. Orgionally we joined FW to make money and try to recruit pvpers and have some fun. We made isk, lots of it, but the pvp has been hit and miss and recruitment. hah not really. And getting a fleet going. good luck with that. I found a titan in Iwisoda last saturday at a pos that was unachoring, thats right unachoring. Several members of my corp and I were spamming milita hoping to form a fleet. And the replies I got ****ed me the f#$^ off. For example "Good luck killing that." I was livid. Here we had the opportunity to be the first milita to take down a titan, and people were being whining carebears. So from my persepective there needs to to be a way to mix missions and pvp. As right now, you can carebear all you want and not risk pvp. Part of the problem can never be fixed as some people are only it for the money, which is something I don't think CCP intended when they designed FW. Final Note: Since I was unable to gank the titan,I emoraged and stole his medium amarr tower. Take that 0 space alliances.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.12 01:51:00 - [226] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 12/04/2011 01:51:41 Mission rewards aren't the problem. They're only unbalanced because the plex code doesn't work as intended. If the code was fixed then missions would fall into their place, then could be looked at for rebalancing. Trying to rebalance FW missions while the plexing system is broken, just polishing a turd. CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence"
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.12 13:45:00 - [227] Bump
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.12 22:59:00 - [228] /me raises hand w.r.t after DT plexing (4 am where I live). What is good about FW? 1. Free war dec. You can pvp to your heart's content without taking a sec hit and without having to worry about gate guns. This is why most of us are in FW. 2. FW missions are a great source of isk. You don't have to run missions in empire - you can run them low sec and have more fun doing so if you want (run a pvp oriented missioning gang through low sec and gank people while you make isk!). What's wrong with FW? 3. Occupancy mechanics are botched - for all the reasons pointed out in this thread. Getting two out of three mostly right isn't bad and is more than enough to have loads of fun with. And while occupancy mechanics are botched, there are tons of good fights in plexes every single day. The main issue I have with FW is the amount of whinage that we FW players put out w.r.t. the botched occupancy mechanics. Yes, they are botched, but 95% of us joined FW for the free war dec and the ability to run FW missions anyways, so who really cares? And no, botched occupancy mechanics aren't the reason for a decrease in FW activity levels. Only a very small minority of the FW players ever ran plexes to begin with. The reason is lack of good fights. Why is there a lack of good fights? Because everybody is more interested in winning than having good fights. So please quit trying to win every fight and instead go out and engage your opponent more often even if it means your side may be outgunned on occasion. You'll have more fun. Your opponent will have more fun, and you'll get more people returning to FW because they'll see how much fun you're having while they shoot i-hub whatevers 23/7 in 0.0. /rant
Kern Hotha	Posted - 2011.04.13 10:17:00 - [229] "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features." --- Realize that we are dealing with a company that values quantity over quality.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:44:00 - [230] Thought this thread needed a 100mn MWD vagabond applied to it!!! Especially since we don't know when the new topic on the new forums will be available again

Tyraeil Starblade	Posted - 2011.04.14 03:37:00 - [231] I really hope CCP will follow through with this and make it a focus in a later patch down the line. Just put Team BFF on it when they're free, they do good work :D
Big brand	Posted - 2011.04.14 04:13:00 - [232] Edited by: Big brand on 14/04/2011 04:16:18 I have not looked at this whole thread, and i have never actually tried FW, but i have a small idea that "may" be fun. What CCP could do is somehow implement FW to be STRAIGHT PVP, make it where players can only get LP threw killing other players that are in FW, otherwise you cant even get LP unless if you are apart of FW. I could add more to it but this is all i can really come up with atm, but TBPH i honestly think they should do something to fix it, now i can't say i will ever join it, because i never really got interested in it, but i do think it is a very good concept.
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:13:00 - [233] bump - trying to keep this conversation alive
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.04.17 14:12:00 - [234] Edited by: Meridius Dex on 17/04/2011 14:14:20 There have already been many good ideas presented here. But I think the only way CCP lifts a finger to iterate FW is if it can be done with as little new work as possible, altering (and, in some cases, fixing) existing code. As such, things like changing system security levels and adding new agents as systems change occupancy, etc. will likely never see the light of day and only serve to muddy the picture. In short, FW can be fixed with a few short, easy steps: A.) Drop all FW missions (and I say this even though I have made tons of ISK with them) and provide equivalent LP directly (and generously, much more so than now) for both plexing and kills. This shifts all ISK-making in FW to PvP. You get LP based on how many blue in the plex and it's size; all NPCs must be killed. Make kills for LP only count once per downtime per opponent to prevent abuse and insure LP is based on ratios, with less provided for ganking a T1 frigate with a faction cruiser - and even less for killing one target with many. Encourage smaller gangs by bringing back active plexing and encouraging smaller gangs, even solo PvP. This leads to... B.) Fix the broken plex spawning mechanic. This is a no-brainer and a long-standing complaint. Insure that plexes spawn generously throughout the playing day and perhaps provide a signal in militia offices when a plex is open anywhere. I'm wondering if this would be an easy piece of code to make - drawing from the database; it would also be a nice touch to those in their captain's quarters, come Incarna. C.) Address the issue of neutral remote-repping and logistics in the FW theater. Insure pirates lose faction standing for attacking FW forces. There has to be some penalty to address the epidemic of large pirate alliances tipping the balance on the FW battlefield. D.) Make occupancy mean something. The easiest solution is preventing the use of station services in faction stations (exclude NPC corps?) in all systems that show occupation by the hostile faction. An even tougher solution would mean barring even docking in these stations, but some have said this might be too scary for new players. You don't even need new code for this, just port the code used for player-owned stations in 0.0 to FW and edit some code to recognize faction occupancy instead of sov and replace corp and alliance identification with FW corp ID. Simples. --Special Note-- Although this doesn't relate to any one major issue of FW, I would like to make one other suggestion for the viability of small ship plexing, especially for T1 frigate pilots: change the acceleration gate requirements that allow faction frigates into small plexes. At least bar the pirate frigs and only faction navy frigates into these plexes. It prevents the broken, OP Dramiel from ruining small plex play and encourages militia members to fly, if any faction frigates, the ones provide by their Navy for LP rewards. Once again, only small tweaking of existing code is necessary. - Dex -
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.17 23:32:00 - [235] Originally by: CCP Manifest IÆve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on. Whatever dude. Been hearing this for years. I do like how you've managed to cut down on bad publicity on the forums by making a lot of players quit tho. CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence"
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.18 02:55:00 - [236] Bump - since it seems these forums will be up for awhile... CCP - Where is a comment on what is going to be done to fix FW???
Cromwell Savage Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.18 03:31:00 - [237] Originally by: X Gallentius /me raises hand w.r.t after DT plexing (4 am where I live). What is good about FW? 1. Free war dec. You can pvp to your heart's content without taking a sec hit and without having to worry about gate guns. This is why most of us are in FW. 2. FW missions are a great source of isk. You don't have to run missions in empire - you can run them low sec and have more fun doing so if you want (run a pvp oriented missioning gang through low sec and gank people while you make isk!). What's wrong with FW? 3. Occupancy mechanics are botched - for all the reasons pointed out in this thread. Getting two out of three mostly right isn't bad and is more than enough to have loads of fun with. And while occupancy mechanics are botched, there are tons of good fights in plexes every single day. The main issue I have with FW is the amount of whinage that we FW players put out w.r.t. the botched occupancy mechanics. Yes, they are botched, but 95% of us joined FW for the free war dec and the ability to run FW missions anyways, so who really cares? And no, botched occupancy mechanics aren't the reason for a decrease in FW activity levels. Only a very small minority of the FW players ever ran plexes to begin with. The reason is lack of good fights. Why is there a lack of good fights? Because everybody is more interested in winning than having good fights. So please quit trying to win every fight and instead go out and engage your opponent more often even if it means your side may be outgunned on occasion. You'll have more fun. Your opponent will have more fun, and you'll get more people returning to FW because they'll see how much fun you're having while they shoot i-hub whatevers 23/7 in 0.0. /rant +1 (and not just because he's a corpmate ) Best part of FW is the 24/7/365 Eve-wide wardec. THIS, they got right, and in a very good way...
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.04.22 03:27:00 - [238] Ok I guess we'll skip this CCP. You just stay focused on moving threads out of General Discussion and posting bull** to Massively. That really is the best investment. I bet if you use enough smoke and mirrors you can recover from this fail cascade. CCP Nathan** "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence"
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.22 03:31:00 - [239] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Ok I guess I'll skip this CCP. I'll just stay focused on trolling threads in of General Discussion and posting bull****. That really is the best investment. I bet if I use enough smoke and mirrors I can recover from this fail cascade. Fixed. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Eve is dying	Posted - 2011.04.22 03:43:00 - [240] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Ok I guess we'll skip this CCP. You just stay focused on moving threads out of General Discussion and posting bull** to Massively. That really is the best investment. I bet if you use enough smoke and mirrors you can recover from this fail cascade. Quoting for justice. The signs are everywhere, lol, it's only a matter of time that more and more people will see it. Unless CCP get their **ing asses together and stop drinking at work and actually start polishing the game, for the very first time.


CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.23 09:14:00 - [241] Trolling and offtopic posts removed. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.27 02:50:00 - [242] Come on CCP - some input please? The thread got cleaned, so someone there IS reading it... DELIVER!!!
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.04.27 04:43:00 - [243] Apparently demanding service for the money you pay is a bannable offence.
Humble Epidemic Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2011.04.27 16:19:00 - [244] I would really like some info on what's going on with this. Could we please get an update? Will we be getting a dev blog anytime soon? Ever? Maybe something? Anything? Please?? FW desperatly needs help. begs HALP! CCP Manifest?
Jones Bones Heretic Army	Posted - 2011.04.27 19:22:00 - [245] If you're giving LP for kills I demand backpay for the thousands of FW pilots I've slaughtered. Also, I will confirm an "LP for kills" system can and will be thoroughly exploited by nefarious people such as myself. If they want to fix FW they need to add a "lattice" mechanism of conquering systems. Kinda like Planetside. The regions bordering enemy regions are significantly easier to capture via plexing. This will lead to a fluid but easily identified "front line".
Ada Tora	Posted - 2011.04.27 19:26:00 - [246] Originally by: Humble Epidemic I would really like some info on what's going on with this. Could we please get an update? Will we be getting a dev blog anytime soon? Ever? Maybe something? Anything? Please?? FW desperatly needs help. begs HALP! CCP Manifest? Shh... You were supposed to forget all about this silly FW stuff. After all, CCP gave you a little bit of attention, and that should be enough for the next two years or so. They have more important things to do. Like shove alpha-quality code onto TQ to test their new MMO.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.04.28 05:25:00 - [247] Well looks like CCP ban spree has cleared up general discussion of customer complaints. Guess that is better then working on the game.
Nakito Yakiya Caldari Yamagata Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.28 09:11:00 - [248] Cmon, CCP. Wake up...
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.04.29 02:20:00 - [249] Still want to know what is going on - just doing what CCP Manifest said and keeping this alive...
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.04.29 02:59:00 - [250] Think it's time to unsubscribe Har. Seems CCP has completely given up on Eve and only see it as a cash cow full of people stupid enough to fall for their crap.

Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.04.29 03:33:00 - [251] Quote: òAn issue was identified that affected the re-spawning of dungeon distributions and this has now been resolved. Looks like they fixed the same plex spawning bug in Incursions.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.04.30 23:26:00 - [252] Well.... I guess FW people have given up on ever getting the 2 weeks of bug fixes that have been needed since release. CCP got any new cool trailers to play?
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.01 23:48:00 - [253] Originally by: CCP Manifest I've talked it over with a few people, including the event scheduler and a couple people from design. There was basically a terrible, inexcusable miscommunication where the session had loosely been decided upon beforehand as a topic, but nobody had properly affirmed their attendance on the dev side. In the madness leading up to and during Fanfest something is bound to go wrong. Regrettably, CCP's attendance at the FW session was one of the few things that did. So, I'm talking to some of the people that could possibly have been at a FW session to figure out how to make it up to the people who went to the session but found it unmanned. More on this hopefully in a couple days time at the latest. I'm also waiting to hear back from CCP Gilsev, the CCPer who did attend the session (as mentioned above), but who works on the content team and had nothing to do with FW other than having general knowledge about it. He has been at a team offsite in Iceland ever since Fanfest, so hope to hear from him tomorrow. I want to get his notes and thoughts to at least be able to pick up the conversation had there on these boards. CCP Krisnitori, one of the main organizers of Fanfest, expressed extreme regret to me and by proxy to you guys, for not properly handling this session before Fanfest. She did a fantastic job with everything else as far as I can see, but she admits a definite fail in this area. Again, sorry from CCP. We know what a blue ball it is to travel to Fanfest to speak about something you really care about in EVE and then to be hit with a brick wall. Hopefully some generative discussion was had about FW that can continue here apart from the justified indignation. More lip-service and bull** from the masters of bull**?
Doctor N0	Posted - 2011.05.02 02:08:00 - [254] Originally by: Muad 'dib ccp would look at the numbers online for the fw's and say that it represents a small portion of the population and desirves a small portion of manpower to its development. fact is fw is fun and could be alot more fun which would attract more players if it had some good features and mechanics. ccp you PROVED that fw is a good idea, and the thousands of chars involved in it support that. So take a good underdeveloped idea and make it great. I'm with maud'dib here, lets try to remain positive & persuasive towards CCP with regards FW. We love it & as a group I'm sure we can get some attention (sorely needed) if we present a united & positive grp of paying customers looking for attention, rather than a bunch of bitter, disenfranchised, quitters.
Humble Epidemic Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2011.05.02 15:19:00 - [255] Still nothing? I'll fight you. CCP. Playground. After school. I'll see you wimps on the monkey bars. (P.S. MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD!)
d4refiner	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:16:00 - [256] Originally by: CCP We have taken careful steps to respond to this thread in a conciliatory way, assign the project to an intern, then fire the intern. Unfortunately the thread has not died as we had hoped.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:23:00 - [257] Originally by: Jones Bones If you're giving LP for kills I demand backpay for the thousands of FW pilots I've slaughtered. Also, I will confirm an "LP for kills" system can and will be thoroughly exploited by nefarious people such as myself. If they want to fix FW they need to add a "lattice" mechanism of conquering systems. Kinda like Planetside. The regions bordering enemy regions are significantly easier to capture via plexing. This will lead to a fluid but easily identified "front line". It would be better to have the action spread out throughout the relevant regions. Front lines just means blobs. We know this because we actually have a front line: Kourmonen. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Generals4	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:56:00 - [258] Actually a small idea just popped in my head, wouldn't it be "fun" if there were random "CTA" missions (given by "event" agents which can be found in any militia stations) which would basically consist of one side having to "occupy" a certain combat zone in enemy territory for X minutes while the other faction gets the opposite objective and has to "protect" that zone (by occupying it for X minutes). Off course this would most likely end up a blob fest, however it might tighten the relationships between corps cooperating as those missions would be highly rewarding. (that's a very rough draft though, just an idea i thought was worth throwing in)
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.03 03:00:00 - [259] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Think it's time to unsubscribe Har. Seems CCP has completely given up on Eve and only see it as a cash cow full of people stupid enough to fall for their crap. Nah - think I'll stick around - otherwise someone will want my stuff... BTW - found THIS on massively earlier... http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/12/06/eve-evolved-the-faction-warfare-mission-debacle/
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.03 23:39:00 - [260] Got a timemachine CCP? Wanna go back and not neglect your game?

Orgon34 Amarr CONTRATTO	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:11:00 - [261] How many more of us are going to leave FW before they realise...
Nakito Yakiya Caldari Yamagata Syndicate	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:24:00 - [262] Hoping for some good news.......soon.... Recruitment for Yamagata Syndicate, Caldari FW, PvP, PvE.
Humble EvolPants	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:05:00 - [263] Originally by: Orgon34 How many more of us are going to leave FW before they realise... Many. And, realize*
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:31:00 - [264] None of you understand. Sure, ccp dropped the ball on FW. But it's OK! See they are coming out with this new stuff that's going to be AWESOME!!! OH MAN ARE YOU GOING TO LOVE THIS NEW STUFF... oh and also, they are going to support the new stuff. No really, it'll be rough when it comes out but they plan on making improvements and working on it all next year and the following years to make sure everything is GREAT and AWESOME just like they promised. See, they are committed to EXCELLENCE. You just don't understand what that means. Oh man wait till you see this new stuff it's going to be SO COOL and totally supported by the full dev team after release. CALL ALL YOUR FRIENDS there is going to be an ad on scifi tonight, GET THEM ALL TO SIGN UP WITH THE BUDDY SYSTEM... you're all going to be so impressed and have so much fun with the NEW AWESOME CONTENT THAT IS FREE (Did I mention this is all free? Actually, CCP pays you, they send you $100 bills in the mail) and don't worry if the game is a little buggy they already know about that and have a patch coming out, and don't worry if people are exploiting the mechanics and pvp doesn't work because the agro system is buggy REST ASSURED THEY WILL ADDRESS THESE ISSUES!! oh man wait till you see this new cool awesome great stuff ccp is coming out with. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.05.04 13:39:00 - [265] Originally by: Humble EvolPants Many. And, realize* Silly yank. English is the language of choice, not your lazy colonial "version". Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia None of you understand... But, but, but ..... uuuh, shiny!
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.05 02:42:00 - [266] Originally by: Humble EvolPants Originally by: Orgon34 How many more of us are going to leave FW before they realise... Many. And, realize* ROFL - single mindedness of the Americans and their universal "we are right" view on spelling. Having flown with Orgon and heard him speak on Vent/TS3 etc..., I can assure you his spelling IS correct (he uses the Queen's English - she was the one in yellow on TV last Friday at a little wedding she attended).
Super Chair Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.05 04:06:00 - [267] Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: Humble EvolPants Originally by: Orgon34 How many more of us are going to leave FW before they realise... Many. And, realize* ROFL - single mindedness of the Americans and their universal "we are right" view on spelling. Having flown with Orgon and heard him speak on Vent/TS3 etc..., I can assure you his spelling IS correct (he uses the Queen's English - she was the one in yellow on TV last Friday at a little wedding she attended). The only reason you're even speaking ANY iteration of English right now is because we saved your rears in WWII. Otherwise, it would be german coming out of your mouth right now.
Gaan Cathal Caldari Angry Mustellid	Posted - 2011.05.05 04:29:00 - [268] Nonsense. We'd be speaking russian.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:06:00 - [269] Edited by: Cearain on 05/05/2011 18:06:50 Is CCP going to post the details (time place and format) of the fw make up session in this thread? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:15:00 - [270] Originally by: Super Chair Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: Humble EvolPants Originally by: Orgon34 How many more of us are going to leave FW before they realise... Many. And, realize* ROFL - single mindedness of the Americans and their universal "we are right" view on spelling. Having flown with Orgon and heard him speak on Vent/TS3 etc..., I can assure you his spelling IS correct (he uses the Queen's English - she was the one in yellow on TV last Friday at a little wedding she attended). The only reason you're even speaking ANY iteration of English right now is because we saved your rears in WWII. Otherwise, it would be german coming out of your mouth right now. If the Japs didn't attack Pearl Harbor we wouldn't have had any U.S. assistance at all. Neglecting all calls for help from the U.K. repeatedly, until eventually they got pulled into the war. Not to mention it was the russians that actually beat the **'s. But yes, there was alot of americans who eventually did come to support Europe, near the end of the war when most was settled. What the poster below you said; we'd all talk russian. Either case, that's pretty much irrelevant for FW I guess. And as ex-FW (three times) my main grief with it is that we keep ing up standings. Just like missions (and to some extent, ratting) do. Would prefer if FW and NPC'ing had less crucial impact on the future. When I started EVE my corp pulled me to shoot NPC's and get standing up with corps I now regret I did. It's a *** to sort that afterwards. Would be nice if there was a 'reset all' option, after leaving FW. Or a major boost to gain standing when in negative numbers. -

MobyMule Minmatar Metallic Dragons	Posted - 2011.05.05 21:07:00 - [271] I support CCP investing in FW. I loved FW and devoted alot of effort and time to it. There are some great ideas here and I hope CCP listens. FW seems to fit with Dust 514 perfectly imho. I hope they devote some talent to FW. Full time team would be nice.
MobyMule Minmatar Metallic Dragons	Posted - 2011.05.05 21:10:00 - [272] Originally by: Jones Bones If you're giving LP for kills I demand backpay for the thousands of FW pilots I've slaughtered. Also, I will confirm an "LP for kills" system can and will be thoroughly exploited by nefarious people such as myself. If they want to fix FW they need to add a "lattice" mechanism of conquering systems. Kinda like Planetside. The regions bordering enemy regions are significantly easier to capture via plexing. This will lead to a fluid but easily identified "front line". Very nice idea. I like it.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.06 00:00:00 - [273] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia See they are coming out with this new stuff that's going to be AWESOME!!! OH MAN ARE YOU GOING TO LOVE THIS NEW STUFF... oh and also, they are going to support the new stuff. No really, it'll be rough when it comes out but they plan on making improvements and working on it all next year and the following years to make sure everything is GREAT and AWESOME just like they promised. See, they are committed to EXCELLENCE. You just don't understand what that means. Oh man wait till you see this new stuff it's going to be SO COOL and totally supported by the full dev team after release. and don't worry if the game is a little buggy they already know about that and have a patch coming out, and don't worry if people are exploiting the mechanics and pvp doesn't work because the agro system is buggy REST ASSURED THEY WILL ADDRESS THESE ISSUES!! lol funny cause it's true. So when is this catch-up roundtable CCP?
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.06 15:32:00 - [274] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia See they are coming out with this new stuff that's going to be AWESOME!!! OH MAN ARE YOU GOING TO LOVE THIS NEW STUFF... oh and also, they are going to support the new stuff. No really, it'll be rough when it comes out but they plan on making improvements and working on it all next year and the following years to make sure everything is GREAT and AWESOME just like they promised. See, they are committed to EXCELLENCE. You just don't understand what that means. Oh man wait till you see this new stuff it's going to be SO COOL and totally supported by the full dev team after release. and don't worry if the game is a little buggy they already know about that and have a patch coming out, and don't worry if people are exploiting the mechanics and pvp doesn't work because the agro system is buggy REST ASSURED THEY WILL ADDRESS THESE ISSUES!! lol funny cause it's true. So when is this catch-up roundtable CCP? I think the catch up round table is planned to do done with our incarna characters. See the future of eve video for an idea of how this catch up round table will work. But to be fair, in June 2010 CCP said they were not going to do anything with fw until December 2011. So if you went to fanfest in March of 2011 for the sole purpose of talking about developments in fw wellà IÆm just keeping my skills up to date for the rest of my subscription û which runs in 38 days. After that I will likely check back sometime after December of 2011 to see if CCP did anything to promote small gang pvp. IÆm somewhat optimistic that they will indeed make small gang pvp in fw great. ItÆs really an obvious decision and CCP is intelligent. But right now eve doesnÆt offer me much that I am interested in. I really think june-september of 2012 CCP will have some mechanics that will make the game great for those who like small scale pvp. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Humble EvolPants	Posted - 2011.05.09 11:07:00 - [275] Oh no you don't thread. Must has answers.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.05.09 11:23:00 - [276] Originally by: Cearain I think the catch up round table is planned to do done with our incarna characters... So roundtable will not be until next summer since Incarna at launch will only have CQ and no option to actually mingle Originally by: Cearain ItÆs really an obvious decision and CCP is intelligent... Not only is small-gang stuff obvious but according to Dev remarks since the dawn of time it is what Eve's focus is supposed to be .. until blobs/lag reared its head and all resources are spent trying to fix a system that is not geared to handle human behaviour. Also, "lol wut!?" at that last word sneaking in there. never heard that uttered in a sentence containing the letters 'CCP' before Originally by: Cearain I really think june-september of 2012 CCP will have some mechanics that will make the game great for those who like small scale pvp. If they manage to pull that off, how much do you want to bet it will be some lame EHP based system that favours blob-monkeys regardless of intentions? The lack of iteration has allowed flawed mechanics to accumulate so it is PvP as a whole that is threatened now .. even with :awesome: small-gang opportunities they would still need to address the standings issues, alt abuses, logon traps, docking games, bore-sec hotdrops et al.
Signal11th Versatech Co.	Posted - 2011.05.09 14:07:00 - [277] Edited by: Signal11th on 09/05/2011 14:10:37 Yep, that's right. Helgi's part of the recruiting team and we've nabbed a top notch HR person, Sophie (who is French), to head up the whole department as we've increased in size. Ahh there's the problem with CCP, as soon as you have to get "HR" people in you lose the "small" company mentality and get the big business bean counter ideology. You get "accountability" so basically in the old days when everyone would just muck in and help, now because HR get involved people run for cover as to protect their backsides! Oh well!

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.05.09 15:11:00 - [278] If you missed it... here's a pretty good place to ask your questions about FW. I have not in fact forgotten about this thread (I gaveth my word!), but hopefully the above (which I knew was coming) will get some answers I can repost here for you. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.10 01:08:00 - [279] Originally by: CCP Manifest I have not in fact forgotten about this thread So amazingly lame response man. Give it another 5 years. Don't worry the strategy of making everyone quit so they stop complaining is working out fine.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.10 01:17:00 - [280] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The lack of iteration has allowed flawed mechanics to accumulate so it is PvP as a whole that is threatened now Truth.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.10 02:45:00 - [281] Originally by: CCP Manifest If you missed it... here's a pretty good place to ask your questions about FW. I have not in fact forgotten about this thread (I gaveth my word!), but hopefully the above (which I knew was coming) will get some answers I can repost here for you. I've put a post in there (so has at least one other person) linking back to this thread. Does this mean we get some answers???
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.13 02:31:00 - [282] Untimely comment to bump the topic In all seriousness, are we able to get some time frame on when we will even be able to generate some meaningful dialogue with CCP???
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.05.13 02:52:00 - [283] Originally by: Har Harrison Untimely comment to bump the topic In all seriousness, are we able to get some time frame on when we will even be able to generate some meaningful dialogue with CCP??? 18 ~~months~~ ~~years~~ lol you think they were serious? --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved

CCP Manifest C C P	Posted - 2011.05.13 04:09:00 - [284] In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. CCP Manifest Public Relations \|\| Iniquitous Brute

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.16 02:22:00 - [285] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Ohhhh - Does this mean that Soundwave will be leading his team into battle for us FW devotees??? Come on - tell us that they are going to use the AI from Incursions to create a dynamic and fluid FW environment that creates missions/goals (individual, corp and militia) for both sides that are intertwined - e.g. Amarr are pushing on system X, so Minnies are to defend it etc??? And the goals/missions update based on success/failure (remember how the story changed when playing the Wing Commander series...).
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.05.16 02:43:00 - [286] Edited by: Mutnin on 16/05/2011 02:45:12 Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Ohhhh - Does this mean that Soundwave will be leading his team into battle for us FW devotees??? Come on - tell us that they are going to use the AI from Incursions to create a dynamic and fluid FW environment that creates missions/goals (individual, corp and militia) for both sides that are intertwined - e.g. Amarr are pushing on system X, so Minnies are to defend it etc??? And the goals/missions update based on success/failure (remember how the story changed when playing the Wing Commander series...). Ummm lets hope not.. I don't mind having various goals with-in FW but lets not push more PVE orientated content into what is supposed to be a PVP realm. Not to mention it's not gonna help the current blob PVP environment to push all fighting into a hand full of systems. I don't want to see more PVP orientated around circling little buttons with NPC's pushing the fight in favor of one side or the other.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.16 03:01:00 - [287] Originally by: CCP Manifest You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. So after several years of CCP intentionally neglecting FW you will be moving on this next week? We should see the bugs patched sometime within 3-5 years from now? Good to hear. Look forward to other expansions being patched sometime too.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.16 06:01:00 - [288] Originally by: Mutnin Ummm lets hope not.. I don't mind having various goals with-in FW but lets not push more PVE orientated content into what is supposed to be a PVP realm. Not to mention it's not gonna help the current blob PVP environment to push all fighting into a hand full of systems. I don't want to see more PVP orientated around circling little buttons with NPC's pushing the fight in favor of one side or the other. It COULD drive PvP too since the mission for the other team is to drive off the people trying to run the mission - the thought brings the following quote from Transformers movie (cartoon) to mind "Come on, Arcee, we gotta get this launcher into place! Megatron's making his big push, and we gotta push back!"
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.17 03:02:00 - [289] Interesting thread going abuot features people would like to see in the next expansion. Faction Warfare is seeing a good level of support. The idea is to pick 5 of the following 10 that you would like to see New nebulae graphics New turret effects New cyno-graphics and engine-trails Corp Logos on Ships T3 Frigates Full featured multiplayer Incarna Faction-war overhaul Supercap-balancing 4th bonus for assault frigs Gallente Balancing http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1511484 Quoting Results (16/5/2011) After almost 3 Pages of votings, the preliminary results are: ----------------------------------------------------------------- 01. Gallente Balancing --> 34 02. Supercap-balancing --> 30 03. Full featured multiplayer Incarna --> 24 03. Faction-war overhaul --> 24 04. New nebulae graphics --> 19 04. 4th bonus for assault frigs --> 19 05. New turret effects --> 16 06. New cyno-graphics and engine-trails --> 15 07. T3 Frigates --> 13 08. Corp Logos on Ships --> 7
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.18 00:47:00 - [290] .......... tumble weed passes ............ Isn't there some other way other then writing code that CCP could make these complaints about broken major expansions go away?

Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2011.05.20 22:24:00 - [291] To what length will you abuse our patience, Catiline? --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won 500 mill.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.21 03:00:00 - [292] Don't worry CCP. HTFU or GFY.
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2011.05.22 23:48:00 - [293] "We wait. We are bored. No, don't protest, we are bored to death, there's no denying it. Good. A diversion comes along and what do we do? We let it go to waste... In an instant all will vanish and we'll be alone once more, in the midst of nothingness!" --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won 500 mill.
Catheryn Martobi	Posted - 2011.05.23 02:46:00 - [294] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. I had this theory about Devs personally garroting commercial botters. Soundwave travelling to Russia is all the proof I need!
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.23 03:39:00 - [295] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. So he is back now right? Since that Alliance Torny 9 vid was done AFTER he got back right??? BTW - I'm not looking for feedback in the questions for dev thread as we have 0 chance of finding the feedback in that as it is so big and sooooooo trolled...
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:02:00 - [296] Stand the **** up and be heard CCP. Either you want FW dead and gone or you have resources and ideas. Do something. Either just come out and say that you want it dead or start working.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.05.23 08:40:00 - [297] Still no answers?
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.23 15:36:00 - [298] Originally by: CCP Manifest After my workload spiked, I dropped out, but recently I ducked back into Ama/Auga/Kourm+ to get some pew pew on and the dynamic of fleets etc has changed...the same spirit just didn't seem to be there. I don't know if that's an FC thing or what, but it still seemed weird. That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) I have hope and faith that CCP devs will investigate the state of FW to a a greater degree than poking around for a day.... the encounter described here could have happened a day ago, or a day after FW began. A perusal of the killboards will demonstrate that there is far far more going on, and that the nature of FW has grown a lot. Supercap fights are not unheard of, and becoming more common. Ships of every type in the game, including Tech 3, Command, and Black Ops, are used with deadly effect. Basically, my point is that FW needs a serious analysis because most of us who participate regularly know that the PvP here is as good or arguably better than that in 0.0, that the old stigma and sterotype of militia being comprised of blobs of tech 1 fitted noobs x-ing up in militia is inaccurate and outdated. The volume of PvP in FW lowsec areas indeed affects the economy, acting as a vital isk sink, and the militia mission systems contributes greatly to the wealth of Faction Gear and ships in the game. FW draws in piracy, and keeps lowsec an important pillar of gameplay, alongside highsec and nullsec. I truly see EvE's vitality as relying on a careful balance of highsec, nullsec, and lowsec activity, and all three deserve equal attention by CCP if they want to provide the most opportunities for the most types of players. Having a progression of zones to play in keeps more players around in the long run, and keeps more subscriptions active. Count me as one of thousands of pilots who would seriously be frustrated if the FW, and all the lowsec activity that revolves around it, decayed away with time because nothing was done by development to keep this game sector vital. The "spirit of FW" is indeed still there, and its really that ongoing roleplaying and endless thirst for lowsec pew by a sizeable core group of players that keeps this zone alive despite CCP's lack of involvement after its initial release. Do yourself a favor CCP, make yourself even more iskies (the RL kind, not in-game) and throw us a bone to keep the rabid militia enthusiasts (and those curious to try FW) happy paying customers for years to come.
Half Cocked Jack	Posted - 2011.05.23 19:46:00 - [299] Want my last action ever on EVE / EVE forums to be bumping this thread. FW was the greatest fun I ever had in my years of playing this game, and still have a lot of good friends involved. Fix it for them, hmm?
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.23 22:20:00 - [300] Half ****ed Jack - you're simply leaving the forums, right?? Not leaving the warzone are you?? or dare I say, the game?? Say it ain't so....

Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.24 00:35:00 - [301] Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen Half ****ed Jack - you're simply leaving the forums, right?? Not leaving the warzone are you?? or dare I say, the game?? Say it ain't so.... The deliberate and consistent neglect of this major expansion by CCP is a perfectly good reason to stop giving them money.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.05.24 00:50:00 - [302] Edited by: Mutnin on 24/05/2011 00:51:43 Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen I have hope and faith that CCP devs will investigate the state of FW to a a greater degree than poking around for a day.... the encounter described here could have happened a day ago, or a day after FW began. A perusal of the killboards will demonstrate that there is far far more going on, and that the nature of FW has grown a lot. Supercap fights are not unheard of, and becoming more common. Ships of every type in the game, including Tech 3, Command, and Black Ops, are used with deadly effect. So in theory, one could argue that CCP doing nothing to FW has not held it back as it's a place players have managed to have mindless PVP with no real reason other than to blow stuff up. It would be nice to see some attention from CCP on FW, but on the other hand if they don't will anything really change? Even very expensive stuff.. I'm mixed on if I'd like to see them do anything.. On one hand it would be nice to see some new things added, but the other half of me wonder if they would just turn it into some crappy PVE incursion style carebear land.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.24 01:09:00 - [303] Originally by: Mutnin I'm mixed on if I'd like to see them do anything.. On one hand it would be nice to see some new things added, but the other half of me wonder if they would just turn it into some crappy PVE incursion style carebear land. This is true. The original actual game design of FW is some of the best thinking which has been coded into Eve. It just needs a few tiny bug fixes. Literially a few hours work, but then if the "new forums" are 72k hours work then... lol With CCP in their current head-space they'd likey just assign some flunky coder who's never played and has no idea of the original game design structure. Really... It's just got to the point of F U CCP
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.24 18:23:00 - [304] Originally by: Mutnin So in theory, one could argue that CCP doing nothing to FW has not held it back as it's a place players have managed to have mindless PVP with no real reason other than to blow stuff up. Even very expensive stuff.. It would be nice to see some attention from CCP on FW, but on the other hand if they don't will anything really change? Yes and no. You are correct in pointing out that the players involved in FW have kept its spirit alive over the years, despite a lack of development attention. There is probably a small, hardcore group, that would indeed stay involved as long as its in the game. This long-term, ongoing following is in my opinion evidence that militia pilots are a lowsec staple population, and deserves CCP attention to keep this gameplay sector vital. People are slowly leaving for other things, some leaving the game entirely. As to the idea of the PvP being "mindless", well that's just silly. Militia pilots are no more or less skilled than 0.0 pilots, and the reasons for the ongoing fighting are just as arbitrary as nullsec wars. Everyone wants a good fight in the end. Those engaging in "mindless" pvp don't last long or get real poor real fast. :) Its quite common for long standing militia pilots to feel the need at some point to try out 0.0, and I'd say roughly 80-90% of them return after getting bored with CTA's, crippling lag, loss of freedom over their game play time, losing pods to bubbles every time they die, or by not actually making more iskies out there. If they come back during a slow time in FW, they get even more discouraged. The idea being that some of the funnest PvP in the game exists in a system they feel gets no love from CCP is hard for many to handle. I'm sure CCP cares about each paying customer and wants their long-term commitment like any other business, I imagine what Faction Warfare was intended as a feature to give younger players an easy quick way to find some "starter/noob pvp" and has grown into a dedicated community in its own right, something I bet they didn't expect. If they had planned for players to see FW itself as an "endgame" activity (if you can even apply that term to Eve) instead of a place to learn before inevitably moving to 0.0, they might have had a more long-term plan for investing development resources. We the community have spoken, its time for a re-evaluation of FW, I hold out faith that as long as we keep demanding attention, CCP will have no choice but to listen eventually and respond if they want our continued business.
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.05.24 20:54:00 - [305] Originally by: Half **ed Jack Want my last action ever on EVE / EVE forums to be bumping this thread. FW was the greatest fun I ever had in my years of playing this game, and still have a lot of good friends involved. Fix it for them, hmm? Me, as well. My sub is canceled (8 days left and I've already stopped playing weeks back), with FW given as the reason for doing so (along with chronic ship balancing issues cited). FW was the most fun I had playing EVE back when the expansion was first introduced. It's broken now and I've lost all interest in the game. I may check back in December when they say they might get around to it, but it's doubtful. - Dex -
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.24 22:43:00 - [306] Originally by: Meridhttp://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=replyquote&threadID=1489084&line=301ius Dex Me, as well. My sub is canceled (8 days left and I've already stopped playing weeks back), with FW given as the reason for doing so (along with chronic ship balancing issues cited). FW was the most fun I had playing EVE back when the expansion was first introduced. It's broken now and I've lost all interest in the game. I may check back in December when they say they might get around to it, but it's doubtful. It's sad to hear there will be one less target to shoot at... While I'd hate for this to become the "FW's gone stale and so I'm out" thread, I hope your decision to leave at least weighs heavily in CCP's consideration of the issue. If there's other players that are leaving the game due to lack of CCP attention to Faction Warfare, at least post that here so there's a record of the impact this issue has on the community. If you know someone who's leaving for similar reasons, encourage them to speak out as they exit as well.
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.05.24 22:58:00 - [307] I was interested when FW was released and I did join it for a while, mostly solo-running offensive complexes. After a while I discovered how broken it really was and so I took my corporation out of it. The idea was to rejoin when some of the mechanical issues were fixed, but years later... Oh well. There's other things to do in Eve. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
Tyberius Rage	Posted - 2011.05.24 23:33:00 - [308] This thread was started on March 29th. It has been nearly two months, and while Fan Fest has come and gone, we haven't had any feed back or news from CCP on the state of Faction Warfare. CCP please pay attention to Faction Warfare. Give us an update on when we can expect to hear your input to the feedback the community has provided. We deserve some answers to our questions. But so far, besides the occasional blue post saying thank you for the feed back, we haven't had anything concrete. This is not fair to us. Please provide some answers!
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.25 01:25:00 - [309] Isn't it obvious that they don't understand what a hole this is in their game and have no intention of fixing the few simple bugs, which have broken it since day 1, even after fixing the same broken code in Incursions. They won't respond to this thread with anything other then platitude. There will be no catch-up round-table. If there is no one will attend after losing so much faith. If any discussion ever takes place, no one will be able to explain how it works as those devs and players have all quit. Any work will be performed by "the new guy" without a real team or any real dedication of resources. The solution is for all FW players to quit so CCP can recruit a new wave of users with simpler demands. CCP is not going to fix this, they just want it to go away.
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2011.05.25 01:40:00 - [310] CCP doesn't really know how to design their game. They like to release placeholder crap and hope for some nice ideas coming from the angry players. And then ignore them. It explains everything! The unified field theory of New Eden

Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.25 01:48:00 - [311] Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/05/2011 01:50:45 Originally by: Calathea Sata CCP doesn't really know how to design their game. They like to release placeholder crap and hope for some nice ideas coming from the angry players. And then ignore them. No no this is actually really amazing game design, it all fits really well. However there are 2-3 tiny little bugs that stop the jig-saw from fitting together. Whoever originally designed it must be very dissapointed in CCP never putting their idea and effort together correctly. No one at CCP really understands how it was put together now however. Noah is a really good game designer and could understand the mechcanic if he tried, I'm sure, but he HATES FW with a passion. edit: See.... There is a faction within CCP who believe FW = WoW PvP Arena. They never wanted it in the game but had it forced apon them as a testing ground for Dominion features (which never really happened). From this perspective they only want it to fade and die so it can be removed from the game.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.25 03:11:00 - [312] Bumping TOPIC even though we are told we don't need to as it at least gives people a visible topic to post in regarding WHY they are LEAVING the game... COME ON CCP - GIVE US SOME ANSWERS!!! We aren't expecting it to be fixed tomorrow. We ARE expecting some meaningful dialogue and timelines for when things can be worked on. Ideally bugs in the short term and some feature enhancements in the medium to long term!!!
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.25 03:25:00 - [313] When the thread hits 50 pages 3 hours dev time will be assigned and bugs will be fixed the next day.
Da'iel Zehn Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.25 06:24:00 - [314] I am interested in this topic as well and the future of FW. I have been in a couple of militas with different alts, and I have enjoyed it. Looking forward to hearing positive news. -- DZ's website Got a problem? Talk to my gun.
Zaran Tarik Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.05.25 08:38:00 - [315] FW needs some love CCP! It's one of the features in Eve with most potential unfulfilled!
Perramas Caldari Pan Caldarian Ventures	Posted - 2011.05.25 11:21:00 - [316] You long time FW players remind me of the wife of a guy I worked with. He would beat her all the time and call her foul names. When she would leave he would call her up crying saying how sorry he was and that things would be different this time. And she falls for it every single time and returns to him to be beat and cursed at some more.
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 12:53:00 - [317] Originally by: Perramas You long time FW players remind me of the wife of a guy I worked with. He would beat her all the time and call her foul names. When she would leave he would call her up crying saying how sorry he was and that things would be different this time. And she falls for it every single time and returns to him to be beat and cursed at some more. lol, FW isn't that bad, or bad at all really. You should try it. There is a lot of whine because of a few drama queens in FW and because it doesn't seem like it would take much time to fix a few of the small bugs. The large overhual stuff would be nice, but I get plenty of pew pew because of FW. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 16:26:00 - [318] Originally by: Karl Planck Originally by: Perramas You long time FW players remind me of the wife of a guy I worked with. He would beat her all the time and call her foul names. When she would leave he would call her up crying saying how sorry he was and that things would be different this time. And she falls for it every single time and returns to him to be beat and cursed at some more. lol, FW isn't that bad, or bad at all really. You should try it. There is a lot of whine because of a few drama queens in FW and because it doesn't seem like it would take much time to fix a few of the small bugs. The large overhual stuff would be nice, but I get plenty of pew pew because of FW. FW is the best thing in eve. However, itÆs pretty bad. The entire occupancy mechanic is so bad it is ignored. You know occupancy is supposedly what we are fighting about? Yeah right. FW fights are generally as meaningless as the ffa fights on singularity. Only it takes allot longer to find the fights in FW. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 16:56:00 - [319] Originally by: Cearain FW is the best thing in eve. However, itÆs pretty bad. The entire occupancy mechanic is so bad it is ignored. You know occupancy is supposedly what we are fighting about? Yeah right. FW fights are generally as meaningless as the ffa fights on singularity. Only it takes allot longer to find the fights in FW. a) doesn't sound like you enjoy eve very much b) a fight is a fight is a fight. You say meaningless, but like everything else in eve, its what YOU make out of it. c) This is a sandbox. The occupancy mechanic isn't there to tell us what our goal is, its a mechanic at our disposal. There might be RP value on them, but again, its a mechanic. I personally love it, even though I would like to see it tweaked ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.25 18:11:00 - [320] Originally by: Zaran Tarik FW needs some love CCP! It's one of the features in Eve with most potential unfulfilled! This hits the nail on the head. Yes, there are plenty of "whiners" who complain about how "broken" FW is. This is not a new complaint, and its easy to see players have been asking these questions for TWO YEARS now. The irony of course, is that people are still going out every day and getting into fun fights because of Faction Warfare. I am one of many pilots who have stayed in militia because its hands down the funnest pew pew in the game, if you're not a pilot that needs to fly in supercap megafleets to feel important in the Eve universe. Is it broken? Its a matter of opinion. Its completely functional in driving a shrinking player base to engage in dynamic PvP on a regular basis. Its functional in providing income sufficient to sustain sub-cap fighting in the lowsec zones every day of the week. Take away those mission incomes, even though they are *****d on by all kinds of people who aren't contributing to the pew pew in the area, and you take away our ability to actually fight on the regular. This would be a bad way to go. The plexing/territory system is probably the biggest room for improvement. And as Zaran pointed out, it has the most potential of just about any feature in the game to dramatically inspire player involvement. As of right now, there is a purely RP fluff motivation for taking territory, and this is to weak to keep players fighting over plexes like they did in the beginning. Money talks, as do system-wide environmental consequences, so lets thinking about putting that modular code CCP Zulu was interviewed about to some good use elsewhere, and give us some real, practical reasons, to keep people fighting and keep people interested. FW is not dead, contrary to popular belief. However, it is on life support through heavy player promotion, and its both sad and frustrating to keep hearing CCP promise to simply tell us what's on their mind, and continually dodge the subject. Absence of new info leaves players thinking the worst, so everything hear must be seen in context and taken with a grain of salt.

Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 19:01:00 - [321] Edited by: Cearain on 25/05/2011 19:01:03 Originally by: Karl Planck Originally by: Cearain FW is the best thing in eve. However, itÆs pretty bad. The entire occupancy mechanic is so bad it is ignored. You know occupancy is supposedly what we are fighting about? Yeah right. FW fights are generally as meaningless as the ffa fights on singularity. Only it takes allot longer to find the fights in FW. a) doesn't sound like you enjoy eve very much b) a fight is a fight is a fight. You say meaningless, but like everything else in eve, its what YOU make out of it. c) This is a sandbox. The occupancy mechanic isn't there to tell us what our goal is, its a mechanic at our disposal. There might be RP value on them, but again, its a mechanic. I personally love it, even though I would like to see it tweaked A)Yeah I was very enthusiastic at first thinking there would be allot of exciting fights etc. But it seems ccp is only concerned about large alliance and corp stuff that I really donÆt have time for. I have rl friends and family to socialize with, and I am not really interested in investing time to make friends over the internet. IÆm not saying there is anything wrong with that. ItÆs just I am just not interested. IÆm not interested in 90% facebook with 10% spaceships. Look at many of the large alliance leaders. Very little fighting in spaceships û mostly facebook. It seems that is what CCP wants. ItÆs their game but thatÆs not for me. B) If a fight is a fight is a fight then I suggest you try singularity. You will get more fights faster and you wonÆt have to do any grinding for new ships. On tranquility FW is likely your best bet for getting in allot of decent fights. But even there you will be lucky to get in one good fight for an hour spent warping around. FW should be the answer for people who want to get allot of pew pew fast but ccp doesnÆt seem to care about it, or anything that might lead to quicker pvp action. Players who want a system that yields quality pvp in a reasonable time should, and have, looked elsewhere. Eve is full of players who think itÆs reasonable to have one 2 minute pvp fight per hour warping around. But this is not because that is reasonable, itÆs because everyone else left the game. Think about it, this is pretty much the only spaceship MMO in the world and there are only like 350,000 subscriptions. What maybe 250,000 actual players in the world? Pretty much everyone agrees the pvp can be exciting in this game. However, CCP insists they want this game to be more about making friends on vent and creating blobs that make the fantastic spaceship combat mechanics they created irrelevant. C)IÆm not sure claiming ôitÆs a sandboxö should be an excuse for bad mechanics. Sandbox or not CCP makes goals all the time through their mechanics. They can either do a good job with it or a bad job. I agree that the fw plexing is the best mechanic they have made so far- outside of ship fitting/combat mechanics. However, until they decide to tweak it, it will remain pretty bad. ] -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 19:54:00 - [322] Seeing as I got some free time lets have some fun with this Originally by: Cearain A)Yeah I was very enthusiastic at first thinking there would be allot of exciting fights etc. But it seems ccp is only concerned about large alliance and corp stuff that I really donÆt have time for. I have rl friends and family to socialize with, and I am not really interested in investing time to make friends over the internet. IÆm not saying there is anything wrong with that. ItÆs just I am just not interested. IÆm not interested in 90% facebook with 10% spaceships. Look at many of the large alliance leaders. Very little fighting in spaceships û mostly facebook. It seems that is what CCP wants. ItÆs their game but thatÆs not for me. first, bitter vet detected Again, eve is what you make of it. Although they have added some social tools they haven't taken anything away from low sec because they haven't changed it lol. You get on a high horse saying you have friends so you can't play eve? That just makes you look like an a. And they have added a lot to the overall spaceship aspect, just not anything extreme since the pirate hull buff. But w/e, if you a bitter vet you came on the forums to vent, so vent away. Originally by:** Cearain B) If a fight is a fight is a fight then I suggest you try singularity....Eve is full of players who think itÆs reasonable to have one 2 minute pvp fight per hour warping around. But this is not because that is reasonable, itÆs because everyone else left the game. You said FW pvp was meaningless. Its not, or at least its not any different than 90% of pvp in eve, which i would think most people don't find meaningless. Going to singularity is just to test your skills, but causes no pain, thus no fun very quickly. As far as finding fights quickly, sounds and looks by the shape of your KB that you need to modify your strategy. Originally by: Cearain Think about it, this is pretty much the only spaceship MMO in the world and there are only like 350,000 subscriptions. What maybe 250,000 actual players in the world? Pretty much everyone agrees the pvp can be exciting in this game. However, CCP insists they want this game to be more about making friends on vent and creating blobs that make the fantastic spaceship combat mechanics they created irrelevant. The reason the population is so small is because of the pvp you dork. In a recent Game Informer article an author wrote about the values of Rift over WOW. EVE was brought up as an example of a game where you just get griefed to death and can't have any fun. This is just one example, and people don't have to pew pew in this game to have fun, but the pew pew is the reason that scares most people away, not the social aspect. Originally by: Cearain C)IÆm not sure claiming ôitÆs a sandboxö should be an excuse for bad mechanics. Sandbox or not CCP makes goals all the time through their mechanics. They can either do a good job with it or a bad job. I agree that the fw plexing is the best mechanic they have made so far- outside of ship fitting/combat mechanics. However, until they decide to tweak it, it will remain pretty bad. ] Saying its bad is an opinion and you know it. I know a lot of people on the minnie side of FW get a lot of enjoyment from the RP side of 'liberating' systems from their former oppressors. Personally, I enjoying being able to use the FW plex's, even more so when the NPC's are on my side. This is a GREAT way to get better fights by being able to limit what in a fleet can come after you. That being said of course it, along with other things could be modified to be even better, no doubt. There has been a lot of suggestions, some on this thread, about changes to make it better. BTW, some level of irony to the amount you talk of having a life and not being able to be bothered with the social aspects of eve and writing an lengthy response of the forums, just sayin ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:03:00 - [323] Originally by: Karl Planck Saying its bad is an opinion and you know it. That being said of course it, along with other things could be modified to be even better, no doubt. There has been a lot of suggestions, some on this thread, about changes to make it better. Ahem .. from page 3 .. Originally by: Dr BattleSmith I know that it's just political however lets just explain the issue again in-case they missed it. * Plex spawnning mechanic is broken. For the first 3h after downtime it is possible to plex PvP. This is the most dynamic form of PvP in the Eve universe. Imbalances between gangs can be mitigated by the use of plex and many fights per night can always be found. Soon after the mechanic breaks and no more plex spawn in target systems until the next downtime. A public service allowance to counter your "I find pew pew .. all is right with the world." Funny that's just what the Devs said .. and its still wrong.
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:21:00 - [324] Edited by: Karl Planck on 25/05/2011 20:23:52 Originally by: Yakov Pavlov A public service allowance to counter your "I find pew pew .. all is right with the world." Funny that's just what the Devs said .. and its still wrong. I know exactly what you are talking about, but that is simply not true anymore. I am US tz and unless its the weekend I play late. Those plexes that get swarmed are a) on the front line of a plex battle b) mostly on the amarr/minnie side A good chunk of them get ran, and yes, i would LOVE if they spawned like exploration sites. But you are DEAD wrong if you think there aren't a ton of those plexes to run. Edit* hell, i ran 3 plexes the other day in heyd during late US tz. I even tried to tease out a fight in local. No one even bothered (though i was in a nasty ship ) Edit** edit failure lol ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:29:00 - [325] Edited by: Yakov Pavlov on 25/05/2011 20:29:35 Karl, You're echoing the devs, CCP Manifest who said, Originally by: CCP Manifest That having been said, like every feature, it was about what I made of it. I ended up hunting down a destroyer filled with Amarr scum and got my first solo kill :) Of course, you're saying this to do precisely that which Manifest said he was not ... and I have to suspect that this is where your and CCP Manifest probably agree. Originally by: CCP Manifest Of course, that's not to downplay or dismiss the very real concerns here, just to put in my perspective. But all that aside, really, we've been waiting 2 months for even a sentence to make the following true. I expect we'll be waiting some months more. Originally by: CCP Manifest That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible.
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:40:00 - [326] Yakov Pavlov, you are pretty much dead on I would say with where I stand on this. And you are also correct that my stance is more dismissive of the problem. However that is different than the devs being dismissive. I can't do anything about the game being changed and I am pretty sure that CCP knows we would like change. Most ideas for the various fw fixes have been presented and discussed. Now every time someone hops on with some 'FW is ruined' I can't help but reply, or at least smile. I am dismissive about most of the concerns because its not like FW is unplayable or unenjoyable. We want it improved, and indeed it will be awesome (hopefully) when/if it happens. In the mean time people need to realize that it can still be fun now and is for a lot of folks. Stop fantasizing about they think they game could be, then getting ****ed when CCP hasn't delivered their dreams. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:47:00 - [327] Originally by: Karl Planck Stop fantasizing about they think they game could be, then getting **ed when CCP hasn't delivered their dreams. How bout this? "Stop fantasizing about what CCP has promised a feature to be, then getting **ed when CCP, first, doesn't deliver on what they explicitly said they would and second,ignore player complaints to that point for months on end." Sorry, not buying it. You can spin the complaints here any way you want but fact remains CCP dropped one of many many balls and then insulting says "we'll get back to ya." PLEX for fanboy?
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:05:00 - [328] Originally by: Yakov Pavlov How bout this? "Stop fantasizing about what CCP has promised a feature to be, then getting ****ed when CCP, first, doesn't deliver on what they explicitly said they would and second,ignore player complaints to that point for months on end." Sorry, not buying it. You can spin the complaints here any way you want but fact remains CCP dropped one of many many balls and then insulting says "we'll get back to ya." PLEX for fanboy? lol, why do you think FW gets to get treated better than any other part of eve. We all know thats what we get. Every so often if a group yells loud enough they get a small fix. So instead of acting mature about it and realizing what product they are offering, people get butthurt and come on here to whine. This isn't unique to FW but for some reason those involved think it is. And its not even like its terribad. Yea, they may be working on it. Yes they said they would be back to us. Never gave a timeline (they won't). Never made promises about what is coming for us in the future. Get over yourself or go make this big of a stink about every dissatisfaction you have with any place you spend your money. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:11:00 - [329] I'm not asking that FW get treated better than any other part of Eve. Only that CCP iterate on the feature as they've consistantly said they would. If your point is that CCP always and will always lie so why complain and somehow think this wins you the argument, I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. Your snarky cynicism isn't cool, its rather pathetic. I do make a stink when a business does me wrong, its called self-respect. I'm not expecting the company to bend to my will. But I will make sure that their failings as a company are prominently displayed on their own forums until such time as they do the smallest courtesy of addressing those failings.
Karl Planck Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:21:00 - [330] Originally by: Yakov Pavlov I'm not asking that FW get treated better than any other part of Eve. Only that CCP iterate on the feature as they've consistantly said they would. If your point is that CCP always and will always lie so why complain and somehow think this wins you the argument, I've got a jumpbridge to sell you. Your snarky cynicism isn't cool, its rather pathetic. I do make a stink when a business does me wrong, its called self-respect. I'm not expecting the company to bend to my will. But I will make sure that their failings as a company are prominently displayed on their own forums until such time as they do the smallest courtesy of addressing those failings. rarely does raising stink at a business show that you have self-respect, more often it makes you look like an ahat. Complaining about your food in a resturant, arguing with a bank over minor fees, calling your internet provider because of outages and demainding your money back, etc. Rarely have I ever seen someone get steamed at a business for a legitimate reason. And like I said before, they have made NO promises (outside of a few hotfixes from exploits) beyond that they would like to work on it. And this is all for a product which i spend less on than my home-brewed coffee. Originally by:** Yakov Pavlov But I will make sure that their failings as a company are prominently displayed on their own forums until such time as they do the smallest courtesy of addressing those failings. meaningless threat, I hope you feel better, you look like an a**hat ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:26:00 - [331] Thanks for bumping this thread showing CCP's abject disregard of customer feedback. Promise to keep it up?
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:27:00 - [332] Originally by: Karl Planck Seeing as I got some free time lets have some fun with this Originally by: Cearain A)Yeah I was very enthusiastic at first thinking there would be allot of exciting fights etc. But it seems ccp is only concerned about large alliance and corp stuff that I really donÆt have time for. I have rl friends and family to socialize with, and I am not really interested in investing time to make friends over the internet. IÆm not saying there is anything wrong with that. ItÆs just I am just not interested. IÆm not interested in 90% facebook with 10% spaceships. Look at many of the large alliance leaders. Very little fighting in spaceships û mostly facebook. It seems that is what CCP wants. ItÆs their game but thatÆs not for me. first, bitter vet detected Again, eve is what you make of it. Although they have added some social tools they haven't taken anything away from low sec because they haven't changed it lol. You get on a high horse saying you have friends so you can't play eve? That just makes you look like an a. And they have added a lot to the overall spaceship aspect, just not anything extreme since the pirate hull buff. But w/e, if you a bitter vet you came on the forums to vent, so vent away. ôBitter vetö you know I never heard that term before I played eve. I have played many sports and games (although not mmos) and never heard that term. I just googled it and my first page is full of eve references!!! Why do you think that is? Let me suggest that many people recognize the great combat mechanics of this game. These include but are not limited to turret tracking, missile velocity, optimal range, warp mechanics, sig radius, and how all the modules can work together to make an interesting fits, how different ships can work together to make a great gang etc. But the way the other eve mechanics work none of this matters at all, itÆs just blob blob blob blob. It doesnÆt matter how you fit your ship your just gonna blob or get blobbed. Many newbs who join this game have someone else fit their ship for them then they fly and blob people. I did that myself and it was fun û for a while. What has ccp done to improve small gang pvp since FW came out? You are right that plexes are a great way to get good fights. Yet the system needs to be tweaked or reworked to be truly playable yet they refuse to do it. I am sorry if you think I am an ass just because I would rather develop friendships in person rather than over the internet. I donÆt mean there is anything wrong with having friends over the internet. ItÆs just not a goal for me. w/e Originally by:** Karl Planck You said FW pvp was meaningless. Its not, or at least its not any different than 90% of pvp in eve, which i would think most people don't find meaningless. Going to singularity is just to test your skills, but causes no pain, thus no fun very quickly. As far as finding fights quickly, sounds and looks by the shape of your KB that you need to modify your strategy. Looking at your killboard I am not sure you are one to be giving advise on strategies but IÆm up for new strategies. What do you do, and how many quality fights do you get in per hour of play? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:29:00 - [333] Originally by: Karl Planck The reason the population is so small is because of the pvp you dork. In a recent Game Informer article an author wrote about the values of Rift over WOW. EVE was brought up as an example of a game where you just get griefed to death and can't have any fun. This is just one example, and people don't have to pew pew in this game to have fun, but the pew pew is the reason that scares most people away, not the social aspect. . Did you call me a dork??? Why I oughttaà.!! I have to say I think the reason more people donÆt play eve is because itÆs pretty boring to warp around for hours and find nothing that will or should fight you or you should fight. But thatÆs just my opinion. Plenty of people play pvp mmos. But whatever believe what you want. Originally by: Karl Planck Saying its bad is an opinion and you know it. I know a lot of people on the minnie side of FW get a lot of enjoyment from the RP side of 'liberating' systems from their former oppressors. Personally, I enjoying being able to use the FW plex's, even more so when the NPC's are on my side. This is a GREAT way to get better fights by being able to limit what in a fleet can come after you. That being said of course it, along with other things could be modified to be even better, no doubt. There has been a lot of suggestions, some on this thread, about changes to make it better. BTW, some level of irony to the amount you talk of having a life and not being able to be bothered with the social aspects of eve and writing an lengthy response of the forums, just sayin Of course itÆs my opinion. I might suggest it is also the opinion of so many people that have played this game there was actually a term coined for us. ôbitter vetsö What you say about plexes is true. I agree they are a good way to get good fights. I used to use them for that all the time. But I can sit in plexes for hours in very busy systems like amamake and auga and kourmonen and no one other than blobs will come in. Yes the mechanics have to be improved. I have my own post in assembly hall. I can show you posts from 3 years ago asking for changes to improve it. Anyone in fw lately knows its very rare to find someone who cares about plexing û because as it currently exists itÆs boring. I think the game could be great if they improved it. But realistically that is not going to happen for at least another year. Right now the game is really slow and pretty boring. So I am going to let my subscription run out and see if they ever do fix it. I post allot, I think CCP did allot of things great- like ship fitings and battle mechanics for solo and small gangs. But unfortunately they do other things that make these great aspects irrelevant. I would love for ccp to fix this situation so I post allot about it. I suppose in the hour it took me to respond to you I could have played eve and had about a 50% chance of getting a single decent pvp fight. But one good fight every two hours just doesnÆt cut it for me. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:40:00 - [334] Originally by: Karl Planck Yakov Pavlov, you are pretty much dead on I would say with where I stand on this. And you are also correct that my stance is more dismissive of the problem. However that is different than the devs being dismissive. I can't do anything about the game being changed and I am pretty sure that CCP knows we would like change.. Thats just it, I don't think they believe players want quality small group spaceship pvp. They have done absolutely nothing since fw to create mechanics to bring that about. FW would be the obvious choice to foster small scale pvp. Yet its completely off the charts! No one even showed up at the round table!! I think CCP is losing faith in the ship combat mechanics they created. They are reaching out to new and different things instead of working with the strengths of the game - like the fun that people have in small scale pvp. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:48:00 - [335] Honestly I don't think it's a matter of losing faith. I think CCP has lost competence .. that or Eve has grown way beyond their ability to respond accordingly. In part, I think that is due to their ineptly piling half-completed feature atop one another for years on end. Looking at the 0.0 changes and mission agent changes, I think they're trying to cut down on the complexity for their own sake. Suppose time will tell if they have the ability to get the bull by the horns. But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW and rather hoping it quietly goes away. Missing the roundtable after people flew to Iceland was a sign of bungling ineptitude.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.05.25 22:23:00 - [336] Well I'm really not down on ccp. Again I don't think someone should have flown to iceland to find out about fw developments when ccp said a year ago they wouldn't work on it for 18 months. I think CCP has made a game that is great for new players for about 2 years of play. I do think they could make it a great game for people to play indefinitely - like other great classic games such as chess checkers poker etc. But they haven't. Eve is really not that great to play after about 2 years. People can cry bitter vet all you want but there is a reason for it. I think your right they need to develop what they have. I would also say they need to develop and capitalize on the strengths of the game. You can't polish a turd and continueing to work on PI and isn't really going to keep players longer. One huge strength that they never seemed to capitalize on is small scale pvp. FW is the obvious way to foster small scale pvp yet it's ignored. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.26 00:36:00 - [337] Originally by: Karl Planck But you are DEAD wrong if you think there aren't a ton of those plexes to run. This is part of the problem with FW. People who play it for the few hours a night the mechanic functions see a completely different game in plexing to those who wake up after they've stopped respawning.
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.26 02:07:00 - [338] Color me shocked, shocked I say! that the fanboy who admittedly blows off any criticism of FW downplays the problems with the Plexing mechanic.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.26 02:22:00 - [339] Originally by: Yakov Pavlov Color me shocked, shocked I say! that the fanboy who admittedly blows off any criticism of FW downplays the problems with the Plexing mechanic. The mechanic works, just the code need a bug fix to make the plex respawn properly. Currently the bug causes PvP plexing only work for 3 or so hours after downtime. This being such a small issue is part of what makes it so **ing **ed that CCP can't get off their **ing ass and fix it.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:59:00 - [340] Lot of new complaints last night, back to the top.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.27 11:02:00 - [341] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Lot of new complaints last night, back to the top. Good to see people getting involved and leaving comments - keep them coming people...
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.05.27 14:07:00 - [342] Would love to see answers as well as more comments
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.27 14:09:00 - [343] Hear hear ... its been 2 months CCP .. can't figure out a way to be a man and tell us to f-off? I know you're just not that into us .. but at least say so.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.27 23:29:00 - [344] Originally by: Yakov Pavlov But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW and rather hoping it quietly goes away. Missing the roundtable after people flew to Iceland was a sign of bungling ineptitude. I can tell you one thing, insulting the developers of this game will do absolutely nothing to make things go faster or how you want them. If you're really this angry, get off the forums and stop giving them money. Nothing irritates me more than people who keep paying for a product than raging about how awful it is. You have a choice whether to be here. This is coming from a guy who really wants FW to improve with CCP help. I'd love to hear their answers to our questions, and I'm frustrated with lack of even a brief heads up as to what they are thinking. A few sentence, ballpark idea of whether they'll revisit it at all could silence the debate and allow players to move on. That being said, being a complete jerkface only makes the problem worse. If I were the developers, I'd put the requests made by a-holes at the bottom of my priority list. CCP's Devs and GM's have said in interviews one of the hardest things emotionally is to put your heart and soul into making an incredible game, knowing you can't please everyone, and than have the player base just rip you up and down for every mistake. This kind of disrespectful emo-rage works against the rest of us in the FW community who want to see real change, by painting us as a small sub-group of whiny children who aren't getting what they want when they want. I'd probably ignore Faction Warfare too if this was the overarching vibe I got from those players demanding all other plans be dropped for their niche. I hope for all of our sake they see pilots like you as the exception and not the rule. CCP still needs to answer the FW community. I wont dispute that. But seriously, grow the eff up for Chribba's sake and either make your requests respectful, STFU and wait patiently, or GTFO.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.05.28 00:34:00 - [345] Originally by: Yakov Pavlov But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW. It can no longer be put down to simple lack of knowledge. Willful disregard for factional warfare is now the only possible explanation. They have been told what the problems are with factional warfare repeatedly and at length. They have had the problems with factional warfare demonstrated to them first-hand. Threads reporting factional warfare issues on the appropriate forums are habitually locked and hidden. So not only are CCP refusing to fix the problem, they are attempting to remove evidence that people are aware of it. The only possible remaining explanation, no matter how insane it sounds, is that CCP is intentionally trying to make factional warfare unplayable. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.28 11:14:00 - [346] Good to see this thread is still alive. Latest update ........................ Posted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - [35] CCP Manifest **************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us. **************************** Seems like the only question on the - Devs answer your every question - Answer thread - that didnt get answered. Will be looking forward to it when it comes :)
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.29 02:15:00 - [347] So when does the 18 months of no Eve dev finish?
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.30 07:40:00 - [348] Still alive and still looking for answer's :D
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.05.30 11:16:00 - [349] These 2 quotes are bang on the money - like real $ subs to CCP money. Originally by: Liorah To read the Chronicles, you'd think that the Empires were really at war. To play the game, "War? What's war?" Originally by: Cearain Everyday Eve loses players who can no longer find any decent small gang pvp. Small gang pvp is a real strength of eve. Yet ccp doesn't play to that strength û they completely ignore it! Having just returned from a few months away one of the first people I spoke to was a friend in the Gal militia, he was hot dropping with 4 carriers and a nyx and telling me that he had got 50 kills to no losses last week, I think Bengal Bob put it well: Originally by: Bengal Bob Part of the problem is us. Long gone are the days when we would gleefully x up in general militia channel and happily leeroy off in our 100 man frig blobs to capture plexes and get into haphazard fights with the WT. Those days are gone. Nowadays, when a new player joins, or even a 0.0 corp filled with fleetsheep, it is like throwing a baby into a pedo pool. Everyone queues up to get in on the new free kills and after a while they are hiding in station doing nothing, or in a sb doing missions. Then we complain there is no one to kill. Regardless if CCP are paying attention or not FW has grown up. The problems of blobs, hot drops and massive skill gaps between old and new players affect the whole of eve, ultimately it forces non blobbers and mission runners to use cloaked ships or fast frigates because there's no other way to survive. This isn't actually a bad thing, it's simply a consequence of having meaningful pvp with permanent losses, it also keeps a lot of the teenage rif raf out of the game which is fine by me. Would I like to see FW get some love, definitely. Do I think that changing plex timers and NPC's will solve FW's problems, not so much. The game is what it is so if you want it to be fun then fly cheap, fly solo and die often.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.05.30 14:45:00 - [350] Originally by: Chris Fierce To what length will you abuse our patience, Catiline? I can't resist posting in a thread that quotes Cicero "Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?" On topic : I loved FW and played it avidly for a year before giving up because its many flaws were ignored by CCP. I'd love to see improvements made and giving it another go. ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !

Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.31 02:13:00 - [351] Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen CCP's Devs and GM's have said in interviews one of the hardest things emotionally is to put your heart and soul into making an incredible game, knowing you can't please everyone, and than have the player base just rip you up and down for every mistake. Problem is we believe in the feature, believe it is awesome. CCP believe they hate it and factions within wish it had never been released. CCP have no confidence in FW. Players have much confidence in FW. The issue isn't that we're telling them it's "**". We're telling them it's awesome and just needs TINY** bug fixes. Their response is to ignore any FW issue. Since 2008.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.05.31 12:34:00 - [352] Quote: REMEMBER NOUVELLE ROUVENOR! You posted this on Facebook CCP - so you obviously remember that FW is still around http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul02 So when are we going to here about what is going to be done to 1) Fix the issues/bugs 2) Deliver some of that excellence we have been hoping for??? (i.e. FW Iteration)
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.06.02 14:45:00 - [353] Originally by: Har Harrison Quote: REMEMBER NOUVELLE ROUVENOR! You posted this on Facebook CCP - so you obviously remember that FW is still around http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul02 So when are we going to here about what is going to be done to 1) Fix the issues/bugs 2) Deliver some of that excellence we have been hoping for??? (i.e. FW Iteration)
Bodham	Posted - 2011.06.03 18:25:00 - [354] Bump for the most neglected and underdeveloped yet potentially best feature of EVE. CCP please realise this is the PvP fix that WILL GET YOU MORE PLAYERS THAN ANY OTHER - PvP that is actually accessible to players who can't fly supercarriers or T3s or even afford them. Do you need someone to stab you in the face to make you realise how juicy this low-hanging fruit is?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.04 06:51:00 - [355] Looks like this needs a bump again CCP... There are lots of fix FW threads popping up - mostly asking for things like the RR <-5 giving faction loss bug and RR spawn plexing to be addressed as well as some chagnes to make the pvp mean something, rather then FW being an isk farm for carebears...
TheMahdi	Posted - 2011.06.05 15:16:00 - [356] Stop ignoring this, it's been a while since last update.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.06 02:15:00 - [357] Seriously - what do we have to do to get some feedback here??? Start reporting our own posts so a human HAS to look at this thread? Or some other activity that probably violates the EULA in some way just to get some attention??? CCP - We just want some constructive dialogue to lay down a road map for some progress in FW... Your playerbase is crying out for it to support small scale PvP.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.06 02:46:00 - [358] Just to be fair to Manifest, I did find this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508537&page=2#35 Quote: ****************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.06.07 00:26:00 - [359] For years I've watched friends have to quit this game. Calling CCP a scam and pointing out that they specialise in Crowd Control. I never really believed it, saw enough movement and enough good stuff from CCP that I believed they actually enjoyed making their game. I was just wrong and telling myself garbage to justify buying into this hoax. This thread has become a good example of exactly how CCP do business. Generally bull**** is the primary tool in their arsenel. This issue has experienced the usual progression of how they kill an issue, simply keep promising things to keep them subscribed as long as possible. Sooner or later they'll quit and the issue will go away, but not before a profit has been made from the disatisfied customer.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.06.07 15:34:00 - [360] And again to be fair CCP said they would not work on fw until December of 2011. So of course there is not much to say. They posted a dev blog explaining how they assigned all the devs to incarna and dust and such. I guess I would be content with information like - "We plan on setting up a FW dev team of 7 devs in January 2012 and hope to have FW improvements by summer 2012." Here is the post where I outline when CCP said they were going to stop working on FW for 18 months. It also links the dev blog that verified indeed no devs were working on it because incarna was taking up the lionÆs share of resources. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1519684 -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Jefferson H Clay	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:01:00 - [361] Originally by: yani dumyat Regardless if CCP are paying attention or not FW has grown up. The problems of blobs, hot drops and massive skill gaps between old and new players affect the whole of eve, ultimately it forces non blobbers and mission runners to use cloaked ships or fast frigates because there's no other way to survive. It is however a problem to my mind and no this isn't a "whaaa I want 30mil SP" whine (frankly given 30mil SP to spend and being a new sub, it'd be the worlds most broken character). A new player feels forced to use a cloaker or fast frigate to survive, they'll ultimatley look at their SP count slowly rising whilst running from a carrier that's landed on their heads or be booted from a fleet for being in a T1 frig/cruiser and think "Is this fun"? Then click unsub, that hurts CCP and more importantly it hurts us. One less person to fly with and/or shoot at. How you go about making things fun for new players AND fun for the old ones is... frankly not something I can see a way to do in EVE at the momment, but it is most definetly a problem. And no Fun != instant carrier/T2 gear to my mind, because if everyone has them fleets become even more selective; No logi 5 only 4? GET OUT boot. Perhaps something that makes an FC go "Actually, I want some T1 frigates/cruisers in my fleet rather than AF's/Bombers/etc"... tackling bonuses maybe? shrug
Odelya d'Hanguest ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:22:00 - [362] Originally by: Rodj Blake In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)? It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems. Supportedùamong many other suggestions and the general ethos of this thread. And while you create shiny stuff for my next beauty session in CQùwhy don't you add militia uniforms that are tied to rank and glory?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.08 01:38:00 - [363] Originally by: Odelya d'Hanguest Originally by: Rodj Blake In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)? It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems. Supportedùamong many other suggestions and the general ethos of this thread. And while you create shiny stuff for my next beauty session in CQùwhy don't you add militia uniforms that are tied to rank and glory? I like the uniform idea - unfortunately carebears will have uber ranks without ever shooting an enemy militia member (i.e. non-NPC) due to how FW works.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.08 02:48:00 - [364] Link to a noob post - wanting to know if/how FW is broken http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1520709 There are the people you want to turn into long time subscribers right CCP???
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.06.08 04:28:00 - [365] Seeing the plex spawning issue was fixed within a few weeks of Incursions release..... Couldn't someone just copy over the fixed code back to FactionWar from Incursions. They are the same thing after all.
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.06.08 07:43:00 - [366] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Hell even make it slowly rise in sec status and allow it to shift into highsec. That way the FW pilots could then continue to fight for the system w/o interference from pirates/others. If FW allowed true change in sovereignty along a sec status scale, then it would be truly interesting. Eg: A system starts out as a Gallente 0.8. Successive Caldari victories could lower the sec to 0.5. At this point there would be some kind of "milestone event"[...] The whole process would take weeks, but it would give the FW teams a genuine reason to fight, it would make FW relevant to the rest of the game, and it would allow the players to redesign the map (albeit extremely gradually). Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: Moolti Speaking for myself and not The Electus Matari: I would love to do more for FW. Right now we have to have individual corps drop alliance to join FW. I would love for Alliances to have a better way of joining FW. I tried FW for a while, but while in FW it's all I could do. There was very little way to do anything else. In order to do other stuff, I had to leave FW. Once I left FW, it was easy to stay out of it, and hard to "go do FW for a little bit". It seems to me that the treaty mechanic that has been proposed in the past by CCP would be an excellent way of allowing FW and RP allainces to interact. [...] This could allow CVA or UK for example to have a larger involvement with the militia without the issues of gcc. Originally by: Othran I have an alt in FW - just to bump standings really. Don't really see anyone looking for fights. This is DT +/- 3 hours, which I appreciate is quiet but its the same time period I played in a couple of years ago. Its just wall to wall mission runners now. To be brutally frank I see more FW people fighting in npc null than I do in Heim/Met/Devoid/Bleak Lands. Originally by: Veshta Yoshida FW is currently the best place outside of null to pew and get easy ISK, the amount of failscade/disillusioned null corps that come through our doors is staggering. Not only do they get wallets fattened up but they get to practice/indulge in small scale warfare and pick up competent pilots before heading back out. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit ... Well said Admiral. The RP potential is immense, almost all currently active RP elements in Eve have dabbled in or are keeping tabs/assisting FW in one way or another. Originally by: Har Harrison Team BFF definately can fix a number of the bugs one would hope... Not sure there is really that much they can do actually. Most of FW is a mash-up of code from elsewhere (exploration, missions etc.) so they would have to track effects of changes across all the related code .. Note that practically all the heinous bugs (cloaking capture, auto-run timers etc) we have suffered from over the years were a direct result of a change somewhere else that wrecking on the mash-up .. Originally by: Lord Meriak What alot of fw would like to see is : Unable to cloak up inside a mission. System to mean something, Get rid of the bunker and have Conquerable Station's, When the station is taken the agent is then offline.Making some systems key systems because of the agent inside. The station should only let that faction dock. We also like If a member of the miltia member is attacked they get small standing hit to that faction.All fw member taking hits to the factions we attack but neutral can hunt fw then go and park in ie: jita / amarr, making neutral rp allince's and not just say we pick a side. This would be hard on the codes writer's but when this game started everyone said it could not be done the game was a trailer & not game play, we want that ccp back. All quoted for great truth and justice. While not all these suggestiosn are wise or even easily implemented they do show a way forward. So perhaps the CCP team BFF should do less "scrumming" and "thinking on FW" and more implementing of ideas.Because let's be honest, These guys above me know what they are talking about and most CCP devs these days do not when it concerns FW. I play FW to since I left CVA but the lack of fight and purpose has left me with very little joy so far. And I am a Roleplayer since the start of EVE (Day 4 I think). ------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.10 11:59:00 - [367] Stupid Dust spam threads, pushes the important stuff to page seven .. Grrrrrrrr. Originally by: CCP Manifest (#136) ..That aside, Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. How is that coming or is you blog schedule on a 18 month clock as well? FW remains one of the biggest draws judging from the amount of new threads every day asking about advice, give us something .. anything and we'll look into getting your shoes resoled for free (dragging feet .. get it? )
Lyra Beloqua	Posted - 2011.06.10 12:44:00 - [368] Originally by: Onis Reborn Faction Warfare could and should be a major warzone for relatively new players to get into some fleets and go have at opposing factions, building a better sense of the roleplaying side of the game, and giving players new to PvP an outlet to get their feet wet. Currently its just go to low-sec/null-sec, get blown up, don't understand why, rage at PvP. This! As a new player who's afraid to get into the ruthless PVP of Eve, I'd love a more "casual" way to get used to it, you know, getting scratches and bleeds here and there without getting my whole leg chopped off.
Lord Kazuhiro	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:58:00 - [369] Confirming I'm one more person who actually cares about FW and would like to see it improved/fixed/expanded.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.10 15:40:00 - [370] I wanted to jump in and say that part of me is praying that CCP has something in mind for Faction Warfare, with the upcoming advent of Dust 514. I am probably not the only one who was blown away by how close Dust 514 actually is, obviously CCP has been working hard and saying NOTHING for a long time, I had no idea they had working builds with Dust on Tranq, with a release next year. I wonder how this spills over into some of these areas where inquiries have been rampant and answers few... Take sovereignty questions - nullsec junkies have been screaming about broken Sov for a while, now its obvious CCP has intentionally been tight-lipped because Dust 514 is a major part of their sov work, and they weren't at liberty to say so and thus were accused of being lazy. :-P Perhaps Faction Warfare too, will see a new line of scrimmage with the release of Dust. If CCP is going to link system control to planets, maybe this means that we will have a new way to take territory from the Amarr besides plexing. This seems entirely feasible, using same mechanics they will use for nullsec sov. And IF that were the case (I'm praying it is, or that a CCP dev sees this and passes on the idea!!) it would explain their refusal to say anything about FW revamps the last couple years. TL, DR: Lets give CCP benefit of the doubt and assume some of the secrecy about all the stuff people haven't gotten answers on yet, means that its linked to Dust 514 and they've been under non-disclosure.

Katrina Cortez	Posted - 2011.06.10 16:20:00 - [371] The problem isnt with faction warfare... its really much bigger than that. CCP has no follow through or commitment to the expansions they have created.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.06.13 08:37:00 - [372] Still waiting for answers now DUST publicity is out the way
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.06.14 02:58:00 - [373] Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 14/06/2011 03:04:50 I have an email basically telling me it's the first they've heard of plex spawning bug (just lol) and they'll look into it after AT. I don't really believe it but meh, took mention of Ombudsman to get past the first 20 emails.
mkint	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:18:00 - [374] Is CCP still ignoring this thread? I haven't checked on it in about a month. Long after CCP gave up on the pretense for caring about anything but $.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:25:00 - [375] Originally by: mkint Is CCP still ignoring this thread? I haven't checked on it in about a month. Long after CCP gave up on the pretense for caring about anything but $. Seems that they are... Still waiting for something on the considered response that CCP are planning to give...
mkint	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:32:00 - [376] Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: mkint Is CCP still ignoring this thread? I haven't checked on it in about a month. Long after CCP gave up on the pretense for caring about anything but $. Seems that they are... Still waiting for something on the considered response that CCP are planning to give... It's looking like "oh we're so sorry you found out we'd prefer to remove FW from the game altogether pleasedontquit" is about all the response this is gonna get. If you play EVE for FW, you probably shouldn't be. If you play EVE "for what it may someday be" you definitely shouldn't be.
Scanner717	Posted - 2011.06.18 02:42:00 - [377] After reading dev blogs and random posts from the forums and other sites(k), That is is abundantly clear that any content not connected to the aurum store will not generate income in CCP's eyes, the subscription model for doing business is dead and they need to migrate the players over to the new aurum store ASAP. Any content for the old subscription based game is both an waste of manhours, as the 15 USD is the same wether they try or not, and a potential cost of new customers, If the hate Eve they'll go to Dust514. So I say in protest we should all create accounts on the Serenity server and kill chinese players.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.18 04:05:00 - [378] Originally by: mkint If you play EVE for FW, you probably shouldn't be. If you play EVE "for what it may someday be" you definitely shouldn't be. Excuse me? And just who are you to determine what fun means to me? I play FW for what it is. I have hopes for what it could be, and I certainly think its worth development time, but I am also realistic. CCP has a lot of other proposed stuff. There are many, many of us who have been in the militia for a long time by choice. It exists, and is still fun, because of the friends we fly with and the enemies we enjoy killing. If you think there's a right and a wrong way to play Eve, you're probably not doing it right. For many pilots, Faction Warfare still offers some of the most steady, competitive, enjoyable non-blob warfare around. And you know what? It would be a lot more fun if all the pilots who bailed waiting for CCP to "fix" something they considered "broken" actually stayed around and participated. As with most things in eve, it all boils down to participation. And the more we sit and troll CCP for ****ting on FW, the more we discourage people from participating, which makes it suck far worse than anything CCP could do / not do to screw it up. Those that actually want to see FW improve do far more by offering respectful, constructive ideas, than sitting around whining that CCP doesnt love them. CCP will love you less the more you whine.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.06.18 04:32:00 - [379] Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen Originally by: mkint If you play EVE for FW, you probably shouldn't be. If you play EVE "for what it may someday be" you definitely shouldn't be. Excuse me? And just who are you to determine what fun means to me? Missed his point. Not telling you how to play. Telling you waiting for CCP to feed you more bull**** is not productive.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.20 02:32:00 - [380] Just thought I would post (again) about wanting to know what is going on with CCP and their FW intentions...

Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:45:00 - [381] Bumping this thread. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.21 04:11:00 - [382] I just read through the Incarna 1.0 patch notes. Well the good news is that CCP have made some improvements to FW. The bad news is that the below list appears to be all that has been done Factional Warfare NPCs now care about defending against their allies enemies While this change is good, how about fixing the plex spawning issue so that the NPCs are there to care about defending against their allies enemies???
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:59:00 - [383] Originally by: Har Harrison I just read through the Incarna 1.0 patch notes. Well the good news is that CCP have made some improvements to FW. The bad news is that the below list appears to be all that has been done Factional Warfare NPCs now care about defending against their allies enemies While this change is good, how about fixing the plex spawning issue so that the NPCs are there to care about defending against their allies enemies??? At least it something they could do quickly without to much hassle and did. Perhaps we'll see more after the patching week and now that there are no more Denial of service attacks? ------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:11:00 - [384] Until they actually take a few devs and assign them to fw, it will remain broken.
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:07:00 - [385] Quote: Posted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - CCP Manifest [35] **************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us. **************************** Still, still waiting. --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won 500 mill.
Flyinghotpocket Black Sheep Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:19:00 - [386] Now that super cool station walking is well on its way. Hows about putting 10 guys onto fixing FW. Who noes you MIGHT get a **** load more subscribers if my buddies hear they fixed the reason that they quit, over 33k characters enlisted in militia.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:53:00 - [387] Originally by: Har Harrison I just read through the Incarna 1.0 patch notes. Well the good news is that CCP have made some improvements to FW. The bad news is that the below list appears to be all that has been done Factional Warfare NPCs now care about defending against their allies enemies This is excellent. Flyinghotpocket, CCP has taken pity upon thee and now you'll finally have some opponents tuned to your skill level. Hopefully the NPC's will enjoy the sheer pleasure ROFL-stomping you that us pod people do (over and over and over and over again). The downside though, is that by fighting NPC's there will be no killmails for you to tamper with so you can fake your combat record and pretend you kill imaginary [AUTOZ] titans.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:03:00 - [388] Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen Originally by: Har Harrison I just read through the Incarna 1.0 patch notes. Well the good news is that CCP have made some improvements to FW. The bad news is that the below list appears to be all that has been done Factional Warfare NPCs now care about defending against their allies enemies This is excellent. Flyinghotpocket, CCP has taken pity upon thee and now you'll finally have some opponents tuned to your skill level. Hopefully the NPC's will enjoy the sheer pleasure ROFL-stomping you that us pod people do (over and over and over and over again). The downside though, is that by fighting NPC's there will be no killmails for you to tamper with so you can fake your combat record and pretend you kill imaginary [AUTOZ] titans. Going to chuck out the obligatory "You mad" meme here It will serve to bump the thread
failpirate CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:10:00 - [389] i was going to post something about sandwiches, but instead i'll express my support for this thread. fw wants some love from ccp. -- this is my sig
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:17:00 - [390] Originally by: Har Harrison Going to chuck out the obligatory "You mad" meme here It will serve to bump the thread Hahahaha. Mad? No. Much of this thread has revolved around debate as to why players stick around in FW long-term after CCP has "abandoned" it. Pocket is one of them. Killing pocket repeatedly has become almost routine, but remains a potent source of Minmatar entertainment. It wouldn't be the same without the QQ he brings to the table!

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.22 02:22:00 - [391] Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen Originally by: Har Harrison Going to chuck out the obligatory "You mad" meme here It will serve to bump the thread Hahahaha. Mad? No. Much of this thread has revolved around debate as to why players stick around in FW long-term after CCP has "abandoned" it. Pocket is one of them. Killing pocket repeatedly has become almost routine, but remains a potent source of Minmatar entertainment. It wouldn't be the same without the QQ he brings to the table! I said it was obligatory I agree that FW seems to have far more interest then it may at seem to otherwise warrant - mostly due to players driving it.
Hentes Zsemle	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:38:00 - [392] So.... have soundwave returned from russia?
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.25 23:42:00 - [393] Originally by: Hentes Zsemle So.... have soundwave returned from russia? I'm pretty sure Soundwave is being guarded by CCP's version of the secret service right now...he probably has body doubles, never leaves his apartment, and is on 24 hour suicide watch. I wouldn't expect an answer from him any time soon. I can only hope that CCP resumes answering in the "answer all your questions" thread, and follows through on commitments to get those covered, even if Soundwave is in a ....."delicate".....situation right now.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.06.26 08:39:00 - [394] Still waiting ....
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.28 06:37:00 - [395] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Still waiting .... Soundwave is done with torny - what about Vegas??? And then do we get some love???
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.06.29 15:10:00 - [396] Originally by: Flyinghotpocket Now that super cool station walking is well on its way. Hows about putting 10 guys onto fixing FW. Who noes you MIGHT get a **** load more subscribers if my buddies hear they fixed the reason that they quit, over 33k characters enlisted in militia. How about it ccp? Please assign some of those incarna devs over to the in space game?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.30 08:07:00 - [397] I think Soundwave is in hiding at the moment. And everyone else is in damage control mode - something to do with not having time to fix content that retains subs and attracts new ones due to the servers lacking the ability to fit people into the major trade hubs...
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.06.30 08:15:00 - [398] well seeing the CSM is meeting atm, we'll just bump this in case they are reading the forums while listening to CCP's bull**. - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.**
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.06.30 08:25:00 - [399] Originally by: Ciar Meara well seeing the CSM is meeting atm, we'll just bump this in case they are reading the forums while listening to CCP's bull****. Do you think that is possible (CSM reading this post AND caring enough about FW???)
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.06.30 08:40:00 - [400] About as possible as CCP giving a marvelous clear and meaningfull presentation to the CSM. I think the CSM might adress this point if they find the time since it was mentioned by many players as a big feature that has no action on it for years. - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.

Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2011.06.30 17:18:00 - [401] Still, still, still waiting. CCP, You should be embarrassed. --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won 500 mill.
Talal Galbraith	Posted - 2011.06.30 17:31:00 - [402] Bumping, since it's the only thread of any real value for the last few days.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.06.30 20:23:00 - [403] Bumping another broken in space feature that has been put on the back burner so ccp can focus on incarnatransactions, dust, and wod.
Lakuma	Posted - 2011.06.30 20:59:00 - [404] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Has been a little longer than a week...that was in May? Although I heard CSM brought up FW during this emergency meeting - I really hope they are scrapping the old system in favor of a new, more polished, and way more pew pew version.
rantuket Caldari SPORADIC MOVEMENT Merciless.	Posted - 2011.07.01 04:57:00 - [405] Faction Warfare deserves some lovin, BUMP!
Vernieu	Posted - 2011.07.02 21:43:00 - [406] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Just a month or two longer, please.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.07.02 21:49:00 - [407] Edited by: Mutnin on 02/07/2011 21:53:30 Originally by: rantuket Faction Warfare deserves some lovin, BUMP! Don't worry I'm sure there will be some nice Militia vanity uniforms that we can all "buy" in the NEX store soonÖ. However bug fixes, game mechanic upgrades and yadda yadda will be put off for a min of 18 more months, or least until a few more unfinished flashy things are added. Obviously, "non game breaking" vanity items for cash are the most pressing issue at the moment. Fixing broken/bugged game mechanics is of course not so high on the list.
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.03 01:18:00 - [408] After 2 weeks away .............. Still here and still waiting like the rest of FW militias
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.03 03:32:00 - [409] I see a fair number of posts from people who want pvp in a reasonable timeframe. (which eve doesn't currently deliver) FW is the obvious way to provide that and keep these people subbed. CCP a real effort at improving the gameplay in eve would go a long way to boosting player confidence in you and your number of subscriptions.
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.04 06:44:00 - [410] CCP trolls best trolls. I don't know if this thread is hilarious or sad (or both.) Either way, I'm laughing hysterically (but it's late and I've had a few glasses of vino.) Want to buy a monocle?

Shova Kais Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.07.04 06:46:00 - [411] I love FW. Small to mid gang PVP with (usually) none of the nullsec blobby bs. Would be nice if we had a few FW updates in the future.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.07.04 08:34:00 - [412] 2011.05.13 04:09:00 Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. How many monocles do we need to buy to get 30mins of Soundwave's time? Is this another unfortunate communication error? Keep bumping peoples.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.04 16:10:00 - [413] I too would like to know what's happening with this now that the dust from monoclegate is beginning to settle. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Kruger81 Caldari draketrain	Posted - 2011.07.04 16:16:00 - [414] I also was at the roundtable, and no one from CCP showed up... They have said that FacWar was on the plan, but not until AFTER incarna and Dust... This mean nothing until after 2012. And IMO then it's 3-4years to late...
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:33:00 - [415] Still nothing?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:23:00 - [416] Originally by: Har Harrison Still nothing? Apparently not. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Nakito Yakiya Caldari Yamagata Syndicate	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:34:00 - [417] Cmom CCP. Wakey wakey! Yamagata Syndicate recruiting! Caldari FW, PvP, PvE.
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:39:00 - [418] Need dictor bubbles in low sec, both types. Missioning SB would be a thing of the past.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.06 13:33:00 - [419] did they address this at the press conference or were the people invited to the press conference to ignorrant of the situation and/or devalts?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.07.06 14:11:00 - [420] CCP, where's the fixes you promised three years ago? Where's the feedback you promised last month? If you're not going to iterate on FW, please just shut it down entirely, right now. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor

Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.06 14:20:00 - [421] Seems we have been forgoten again,
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.07.06 14:35:00 - [422] Originally by: Lord Meriak Seems we have been forgoten again, Oh they have not forgotten about you. There is just nothing to report. Here, have a faction warfare T-shirt. It's only 3600 Aurum.
Flyinghotpocket ASPIRE Commandos	Posted - 2011.07.06 15:42:00 - [423] You better fix this **** mostly ricky tick. the daily average on amarr militia is about 40-60 people online during the week. And about 90-110 people during the weekend. Not like the number count really matters as more than half the amarr militia are farmers and not pvpers. If you dont fix this fast an entire section of lowsec is going to cancel sub.
Prime	Posted - 2011.07.06 15:51:00 - [424] As one of the oldest players still around, I'll add my weight to this thread... Fixing FW with many of the great ideas in this thread would be great for eve. FW makes highsec pvp fun, esp with enough people doing it. It also solves the 'problem' ccp has with not enough ships blowing up...
Archaic Flame	Posted - 2011.07.07 12:47:00 - [425] I want to believe there is something being done about this, but I bet CCP has forgotten all about us in their latest ****show.
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.07 17:21:00 - [426] CCP Released there new video about Amarr/Cal V Min/Gal. But yet we still have heard nothing for a very long time. Fw is at the core of eve, war of the empires They not answered this topic for a long time and we know they did not turn up for the meeting. Yet they bring this fw vid out come on ccp. sort it ..
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.08 12:27:00 - [427] Unfortunately CCP's trailers ceased to have anything to do with actual in-game stuff a while back.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.08 12:37:00 - [428] Need MOAR FW!
Kruger81 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.07.08 12:40:00 - [429] Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Lord Meriak Seems we have been forgoten again, Oh they have not forgotten about you. There is just nothing to report. Here, have a faction warfare T-shirt. It's only 3600 Aurum. Nono, u get a medal for taking all systems... Oh, I forgot... Thoose who took several system, don't get it, and thoose who was in FacWar 1 day did :P
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.07.08 12:41:00 - [430] Edited by: Ciar Meara on 08/07/2011 12:42:13 Originally by: Rodj Blake Unfortunately CCP's trailers ceased to have anything to do with actual in-game stuff a while back. The new trailer has some good moments though Rodj, I remember battles like that in PIE and not so long ago in Providence (well long enough ago). Although obviously Amarr always win... Anyway, yeah Faction Warfare...

Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 - [431] How about a faction warfare section of the forums for start?
dgastuffz Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.08 20:16:00 - [432] and CCP still ignore this topic
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.07.09 20:07:00 - [433] Ignoring this thread will just make it longer. Maybe practise your communication skills here?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.11 11:47:00 - [434] It's almost as though CCP are hoping that the issue will just go away. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Black Panpher	Posted - 2011.07.11 14:13:00 - [435] Any update?
Aodha Khan Minmatar Deviance Cartel Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2011.07.11 14:37:00 - [436] I'm not even in FW and I can see how much the game could benefit from a more advanced FW mechanic. So much potential, wasted by CCP on other vampire games. Wheres the love CCP? Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.12 01:59:00 - [437] Originally by: Rodj Blake It's almost as though CCP are hoping that the issue will just go away. And yet it doesn't... It's almost as if there are a number of people who partake in FW that actually CARE about it and want to see it fixed/improved!!!
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.07.12 03:15:00 - [438] CCP were asked to fix the issue before a repeat of the 2009 fiasco occured. They have not. It is about to occur again. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
dgastuffz Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.12 14:52:00 - [439] Hello CCP / CSM anyone there ?
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.12 17:21:00 - [440] There are no developers assigned to fw. Hence there will be no new developments in fw. Hence there would be nothing to do at a round table other than sit there in awkward silence.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.13 02:56:00 - [441] Just want to point out that King Rothgar is quiting Eve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1546709 For those that know King, he used to fly with ARETR and was known to fly in Pred's late night fleets. He quit FW when he got bored of it due to the lack of CCP attention in regards to FW(along with some other former ARETR members). Now he is just bored of Eve. These are the long term players that CCP is losing by not doing anything to improve/fix FW... I myself have found less interest in playing of late for similar reasons - chasing mission runner SBs is just not fun...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.14 09:34:00 - [442] I remember King Rothgar. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Muad 'dib Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.07.14 10:02:00 - [443] How about carving up some code from incursions? Give some system "bonuses" to the allience that holds that system Include corp only LP (awarded from pvp and pve efforts) Reward 'system take over' prizes not just standing Make missions more interesting, hell throw out special missions similer to end incursion once in a while (or as a part of a system take over, bunkers suck) some old and new stuff to bump this thread! Meep Meep!
lord torak The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.07.14 11:11:00 - [444] Yeh, please make the system take over worth something, as atm its no point at all! Also for being patient, I would like an Abaddon Navy Issue :D Cheers Ben
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.14 11:37:00 - [445] I think there are certainly some things which could come from 'Incursions'. Even if enemy Faction Navy NPC's did mini-incursions into enemy territory which effected the system and encouraged you to kill them for LP's and as a flash point for PVP. But whatever happens Faction Warfare should rewards PVP and not be something you join to farm LP's. Follow Flynn on Twitter
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.07.14 13:24:00 - [446] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Patience is running out, so is new blood in FW. If CCP plans to kill FW off, can you let us know because, well really, it is only polite to be honest to your customers - even if you have never been able to keep your promises.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.14 17:32:00 - [447] Friendly Bump Follow Flynn on Twitter
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.	Posted - 2011.07.14 17:48:00 - [448] So many people have forgotten about it if you fixed it you could probably release it as a whole new expansion! You'd get the full new player benefit and fix an old feature! Hell you could even use the old trailers again, and commit more devs to WoD
Arrinlay	Posted - 2011.07.14 17:53:00 - [449] CSM Investigating Faction Warfare Please visit my topic and support it or provide simple feedback on getting CSM on this. The idea is to take FW and improve it to that it both benefits the NPE (because FW is the first thing new pilots are directed to after completion of career agents relative to PvP!) as well as introduce mechanics that veterans will enjoy.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.14 18:02:00 - [450] Originally by: Arrinlay CSM Investigating Faction Warfare Please visit my topic and support it or provide simple feedback on getting CSM on this. The idea is to take FW and improve it to that it both benefits the NPE (because FW is the first thing new pilots are directed to after completion of career agents relative to PvP!) as well as introduce mechanics that veterans will enjoy. Thanks for posting this. Follow Flynn on Twitter

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.15 08:34:00 - [451] Originally by: Arrinlay CSM Investigating Faction Warfare Please visit my topic and support it or provide simple feedback on getting CSM on this. The idea is to take FW and improve it to that it both benefits the NPE (because FW is the first thing new pilots are directed to after completion of career agents relative to PvP!) as well as introduce mechanics that veterans will enjoy. I support this. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Odelya d'Hanguest ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2011.07.15 15:21:00 - [452] Still reading CCP? Originally by: Har Harrison Originally by: Odelya d'Hanguest Originally by: Rodj Blake In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)? It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems. Supportedùamong many other suggestions and the general ethos of this thread. And while you create shiny stuff for my next beauty session in CQùwhy don't you add militia uniforms that are tied to rank and glory? I like the uniform idea - unfortunately carebears will have uber ranks without ever shooting an enemy militia member (i.e. non-NPC) due to how FW works. This could be managed by binding it to VP/kills or something better. It would be great to have meaningful actions that produce visible tokens. But I guess, this isn't the best place to discuss this matter.
Jonathan Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:05:00 - [453] Aren't you guys in low-sec? That was Mynxee's baby. You won't get **** all from soundwave. He's Mittens' brosef. "IÆll tell you where it starts though: 0.0." "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens
Jonathan Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:50:00 - [454] More from soundwave: "We have a pretty good tradition of building on stuff weÆve released," You guys would agree with that, wouldn't you? "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:59:00 - [455] Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson More from soundwave: "We have a pretty good tradition of building on stuff weÆve released," You guys would agree with that, wouldn't you? with regard to 0.0, yes it gets built on all the time. Sadly, not with FW among other. HOWEVER, i still love FW. I just know they can make it better ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Jonathan Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.16 17:06:00 - [456] Originally by: CCP Manifest In case ya'll missed the "ASK EVE" thread response...there's no need to bump. It'll come shortly after Soundwave returns from Russia and we can sit down together. I told you I can't quit you! You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. That was May 13. Has it been a week yet? (I don't think FW fits within goons' plans for the game guys, sorry 'bout that.) "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.07.18 07:22:00 - [457] Edited by: Ciar Meara on 18/07/2011 07:22:03 I'v been watching and posting in this thread but neither this one or the "ask a dev" has received the attention it deserves so it should get noticed some more I think. - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.18 11:55:00 - [458] Yes, it definitely needs more attention. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Bengal Bob Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.07.20 08:56:00 - [459] bump
mkint	Posted - 2011.07.20 09:20:00 - [460] Edited by: mkint on 20/07/2011 09:25:56 what's in it for goons? edit: nothing's in it for goons, and there's no way to MT it. FW is deader than Steve Irwin, and will eventually take the rest of EVE with it.

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.21 13:36:00 - [461] Originally by: mkint Edited by: mkint on 20/07/2011 09:25:56 what's in it for goons? edit: nothing's in it for goons, and there's no way to MT it. FW is deader than Steve Irwin, and will eventually take the rest of EVE with it. A well-designed FW would be attractive to lots of pubbies, who would then leave 0.0, which in turn would increase the dominance of the Goons out there. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.22 03:16:00 - [462] Hey did CCP Manifest/Soundwave ever get around to posting about FW on the devs answer your every question thread (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508537&page=2)? Been about two months since you guys last gave us an update that you're going to be delayed.... (hopefully too busy working on awesome new FW stuff...one can only hope ^^) Another update would be appreciated.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.22 16:29:00 - [463] Page three, .. I think NOT! Originally by: Super Chair Hey did CCP Manifest/Soundwave ever get around to posting about FW on the devs answer your every question thread... Not really, has been some scattered replies related to FW but none of the big questions have been answered yet. Also the little matter of the promised blog en lieu of the fanfest fiasco .. my guess is that they can't agree on who's head to sacrifice to the mob which is what will happen when they say "no further development, working as intended"
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.07.22 16:52:00 - [464] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Page three, .. I think NOT! Originally by: Super Chair Hey did CCP Manifest/Soundwave ever get around to posting about FW on the devs answer your every question thread... Not really, has been some scattered replies related to FW but none of the big questions have been answered yet. Also the little matter of the promised blog en lieu of the fanfest fiasco .. my guess is that they can't agree on who's head to sacrifice to the mob which is what will happen when they say "no further development, working as intended" So, another question then. Did Soundwave ever talk about FW in that EVE radio interview yesterday? ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Syekuda Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.22 18:17:00 - [465] I think I can consider this a wet dream but I wish CCP would make a blog on an update about faction warfare and other big features they released. lol -------------------------------------------------- Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ISAAC ASIMOV
John Caesse Caldari Navy of Xoc The Remnant Legion	Posted - 2011.07.22 23:29:00 - [466] When the waterpark is broken, the main focus should obviously be on the kiddie pool.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2011.07.23 01:20:00 - [467] Originally by: John Caesse When the waterpark is broken, the main focus should obviously be on the kiddie pool. So running anoms in null is the big kids play ground? -Just because something works, doesn't mean it's not stupid.
Alba Miri Jin-Mei National Council	Posted - 2011.07.23 09:46:00 - [468] Originally by: Syekuda I think I can consider this a wet dream but I wish CCP would make a blog on an update about faction warfare and other big features they released. Yes...
Jonathan Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.24 19:53:00 - [469] CCP Homonoia, you've actually made some decent (ad hominems aside) efforts at communicating lately. Could you at least confirm that CCP lied about addressing (through actions, not words) customer concerns with FW and put these poor bastards out of their misery? "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.24 20:16:00 - [470] Yeah please can we get some more information!!!!!? Follow Flynn on Twitter

Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.25 06:48:00 - [471] In the meantime I suppose we can get everyone we know to vote for FW stuff for the crowdsourcing (and maybe outpost destruction and ship balances :D )
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.25 07:41:00 - [472] Originally by: Super Chair In the meantime I suppose we can get everyone we know to vote for FW stuff for the crowdsourcing (and maybe outpost destruction and ship balances :D ) Yes I actually spent sometime trying to count how many FW votes had be cast so far. The problem is that there is a lot of FW stuff in the list everyone should look to vote for the same one or all of them so we can get the most points behind them. I voted for 41 as it seemed like the best option to cover FW as a whole, 44 is good too. So go with 41 or 44 or both I'd say. Follow Flynn on Twitter
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.25 08:37:00 - [473] Won't matter. We have had hundreds/thousands of people vote for FW related issues since the crowd-sourcing began to no avail. Previous two CSM have been pretty vocal on it as well and have submitted loads of concerns over the years (reason for the high number of topics on list). There is no easy fix so it involves :effort:, which unfortunately means that work won't begin until after pigs takes to the skies and the denizens of Hell are frolicking in the snow.
Runnin Through	Posted - 2011.07.25 08:39:00 - [474] Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Originally by: Super Chair In the meantime I suppose we can get everyone we know to vote for FW stuff for the crowdsourcing (and maybe outpost destruction and ship balances :D ) Yes I actually spent sometime trying to count how many FW votes had be cast so far. The problem is that there is a lot of FW stuff in the list everyone should look to vote for the same one or all of them so we can get the most points behind them. I voted for 41 as it seemed like the best option to cover FW as a whole, 44 is good too. So go with 41 or 44 or both I'd say. They don't care about fw anymore, there are so many FW stuff in this vote so they won't have to care about fw in the future either. Move on.
Aodha Khan Minmatar Deviance Cartel Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2011.07.25 09:22:00 - [475] Originally by: Runnin Through They don't care about Eve anymore, there are so many Eve stuff in this vote so they won't have to care about Eve in the future either. Move on. Fixed for you. Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Umbriele Gallente Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium	Posted - 2011.07.25 11:24:00 - [476] Originally by: CCP Manifest I've talked it over with a few people, including the event scheduler and a couple people from design. There was basically a terrible, inexcusable miscommunication where the session had loosely been decided upon beforehand as a topic, but nobody had properly affirmed their attendance on the dev side. In the madness leading up to and during Fanfest something is bound to go wrong. Regrettably, CCP's attendance at the FW session was one of the few things that did. So, I'm talking to some of the people that could possibly have been at a FW session to figure out how to make it up to the people who went to the session but found it unmanned. More on this hopefully in a couple days time at the latest. I'm also waiting to hear back from CCP Gilsev, the CCPer who did attend the session (as mentioned above), but who works on the content team and had nothing to do with FW other than having general knowledge about it. He has been at a team offsite in Iceland ever since Fanfest, so hope to hear from him tomorrow. I want to get his notes and thoughts to at least be able to pick up the conversation had there on these boards. CCP Krisnitori, one of the main organizers of Fanfest, expressed extreme regret to me and by proxy to you guys, for not properly handling this session before Fanfest. She did a fantastic job with everything else as far as I can see, but she admits a definite fail in this area. Again, sorry from CCP. We know what a blue ball it is to travel to Fanfest to speak about something you really care about in EVE and then to be hit with a brick wall. Hopefully some generative discussion was had about FW that can continue here apart from the justified indignation. I bet no ones missed to drink a beer or something tho
Because Of Door	Posted - 2011.07.25 11:59:00 - [477] I did FW for several months over a year ago, hoping to get in on some fun and cheap PvP. The fleets ended up being blob-fests or station games, so I resorted to chasing mission runners, which turned out to be more trouble than it was worth with them all flying stealth bombers or cloaky tengus. So I ended up just running missions, cashing in some 10m LP at the end. From my experience, there was little incentive for small scale PVP (which is how it was pushed at the beginning), some of this is down to the players and some (not all) of the FW corps seemingly bringing a 0.0 mentality to it - bigger blobs - until no-one fights at all, or just ran away all the time. You did occassionaly get some large or interesting fights, but that was the exception. There are so many smack-talkers who are actually just risk-averse it is incredible (more than I thought tbh). The neglect by CCP, and the feeling that they never got the mechanics right, reinforces the risk-averse nature of many players. Free faction frigate replacement as long as you have been in FW for more than a week, or achieved a certain rank would be good, and possibly encourage more risk & small fights. Maybe make the frigate given in this way unsellable/non-reprocessable on the market/contracts. Obviously, there are many other issues as many have pointed out too.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.26 10:47:00 - [478] I wish that CCP would just come out and admit that they have no intention of fixing FW. As John Cleese once said, it's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand.
Diabol Ique	Posted - 2011.07.26 11:04:00 - [479] Originally by: Because Of Door I did FW for several months over a year ago, hoping to get in on some fun and cheap PvP. The fleets ended up being blob-fests or station games, so I resorted to chasing mission runners, which turned out to be more trouble than it was worth with them all flying stealth bombers or cloaky tengus. So I ended up just running missions, cashing in some 10m LP at the end. From my experience, there was little incentive for small scale PVP (which is how it was pushed at the beginning), some of this is down to the players and some (not all) of the FW corps seemingly bringing a 0.0 mentality to it - bigger blobs - until no-one fights at all, or just ran away all the time. You did occassionaly get some large or interesting fights, but that was the exception. There are so many smack-talkers who are actually just risk-averse it is incredible (more than I thought tbh). That's unfortunate, because I did FW when it first came out, and at least my experiences were the opposite of yours. Fun small gang frigate/cruiser fights, with the rare BC/BS if people had holes in their pockets. I quit EVE a couple years ago, before you did FW, so I'm saddened that one of the main reasons I'm coming back has been warped and twisted into something a former shade of itself. I became hopeful when I started reading this thread, seeing all the promises made, until I noticed those post dates. No word since May, especially after screwing up the fanfest panel? Wow, way to really drop the ball there CCP.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.26 13:45:00 - [480] The first 6-12 months were pure awesome. It was brand new (thus exciting) and CCP had people working on tweaks, events and bug-squashing. Then the Next Big ThingÖ came along and all resources were diverted elsewhere, went so far as to make bug-squashing part of 'normal' rotation .. FW is a great concept but with lousy implementation .. like a steam engine made of tin, biggest damn thing ever made but falls apart when actually put to use

Flynn Fetladral Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.26 14:36:00 - [481] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The first 6-12 months were pure awesome. It was brand new (thus exciting) and CCP had people working on tweaks, events and bug-squashing. Then the Next Big ThingÖ came along and all resources were diverted elsewhere, went so far as to make bug-squashing part of 'normal' rotation .. FW is a great concept but with lousy implementation .. like a steam engine made of tin, biggest damn thing ever made but falls apart when actually put to use Pretty much this I'd say. If your going to build a system where you wont be doing anything with it for a long time it has to be totally robust from the outset. Like 0.0, FW needs a rethink with some serious and comprehensive changes to many of its core features. FW + Low Sec need an expansion to themselves. I think the devs know this, but due to their current time table can't fit it in, so they don't talk about it at all. I can understand that FW and Low Sec are some of the least used parts of the game by players thus don't get much of a look in. However maybe it's indicative of the problem. No one is using it because it needs to be addressed by the devs to make it more attractive. It's ok that CCP can't address this right now, what is not ok is not being able to fix it and not talking about it with players, even if there was one bloody game designer assigned to talking to it's users and hashing out ideas so when CCP comes to finally do something about it much of the leg work is already done.
dgastuffz Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.26 15:04:00 - [482] this is ccp¦s communication on it finest well done ccp
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.27 02:40:00 - [483] Two months and no comment after being promised feedback... Come on CCP - the FW community wants some answers!!!
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.07.27 17:34:00 - [484] Edited by: Cearain on 27/07/2011 17:36:28 Originally by: Flynn Fetladral ....Like 0.0, FW needs a rethink with some serious and comprehensive changes to many of its core features. FW + Low Sec need an expansion to themselves. I think the devs know this, but due to their current time table can't fit it in, so they don't talk about it at all. I can understand that FW and Low Sec are some of the least used parts of the game by players thus don't get much of a look in. However maybe it's indicative of the problem. No one is using it because it needs to be addressed by the devs to make it more attractive. It's ok that CCP can't address this right now, what is not ok is not being able to fix it and not talking about it with players, even if there was one bloody game designer assigned to talking to it's users and hashing out ideas so when CCP comes to finally do something about it much of the leg work is already done. There is definitely a trype of player that fits well in low sec and fw. They are more casual players who like small gang pvp. We like the fact that eve is hardcore and you really lose things in the game but the idea of alarm clock ops or quitting my day job to play a computer game is not realistic. CCP has ignored this group of players and i suspect they are leaving. But the thing is if they really made fw plexing deliver the awesome solo/small gang pvp it was meant to, they would see their numbers doubling in 3 years. CCP lots of people would like fast paced pvp against other players (not just red xs). But the current mechanics make it so you either spend hours waiting for gangs to form and blob others(not somethign casual players can really do) or you run missions. All of this can be very boring stuff. Give players who like solo/small gang pvp a single small bone - a single mechanic that caters to them - in new eden and your subscriptions will grow fast. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.07.27 17:47:00 - [485] Oh yeah and if your reading this and like fw, vote issue 41 here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555249 -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.07.28 09:53:00 - [486] So whatcha think guys, should we just give up on this? Perhaps it's best to give up now before CCP actually gives us hope... - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
Mary Astell	Posted - 2011.07.28 11:51:00 - [487] FW is ok imo. I get plenty of pvp. The only thing is you have to adapt to your enemies. Later today i will be renaming my ship 'gallente control bunker' and remaining completely still. Hopefully the caldari will think me a stationary npc target and actually engage instead of getting out of their ships and podding back to enaluri :p In all seriousness though, within the boundaries of the game mechanics there is tons of pvp in FW, though there is a 'right time right place' element to it.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.07.28 12:20:00 - [488] Originally by: Mary Astell ....In all seriousness though, within the boundaries of the game mechanics there is tons of pvp in FW, though there is a 'right time right place' element to it. There is more than decent small scale pvp in fw than anywhere else in eve. But I wouldn't say there is tons of it. You can probably get one decent (not just a gank) fight every 2 hours. IMO FW mechanics should yield 2-4 good small scale fights per hour. CCP should at least strive for that instead of thinking everyone has all day to wait for a fight. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Odelya d'Hanguest ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2011.07.30 17:25:00 - [489] Originally by: Har Harrison Two months and no comment after being promised feedback... Come on CCP - the FW community wants some answers!!! Indeed.
Flynn Fetladral Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.07.30 18:16:00 - [490] Dr. Evil has a message for CCP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PIidaqCyU&feature=youtu.be&t=50s Follow Flynn on Twitter

Major Atrocity	Posted - 2011.07.30 18:33:00 - [491] fw is now a ****ing joke. its farmville with a eve theme
Lord Viziam GunStars	Posted - 2011.07.30 19:04:00 - [492] Originally by: Ciar Meara So whatcha think guys, should we just give up on this? Perhaps it's best to give up now before CCP actually gives us hope... yes! for christ's sake yes! I'm sick of seeing this stupid thread! CCP isn't going to fix anything any time soon. deal with it!
Hwong Jian	Posted - 2011.07.30 19:37:00 - [493] Originally by: John Cleese It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand. Having been in FW and only FW since deciding to give up the lifestyle of a high-sec mission running carebear, I can honestly say that I have accepted FW as what it is. FW is a place where you can make 100 mil isk an hour under the constant threat of getting ganked (which is kinda fun.) You can also find fights quickly and easily (though a majority of the time, they are fights where the odds are not in your favor.) Everything else about FW is unfinished and broken. And, I think it would just make a lot of people rest easy if CCP would state that their focus has shifted and they will most likely not be returning to FW. Then we could carry on without threat of having our hopes inevitably dashed against the jagged rocks of "this new thing is more important."
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.07.31 11:09:00 - [494] Originally by: Lord Viziam Originally by: Ciar Meara So whatcha think guys, should we just give up on this? Perhaps it's best to give up now before CCP actually gives us hope... yes! for christ's sake yes! I'm sick of seeing this stupid thread! CCP isn't going to fix anything any time soon. deal with it! Thanks for sharing, but it isn't going anywhere... Deal with it!!!
Major Atrocity	Posted - 2011.07.31 11:22:00 - [495] What needs fixing is... - using alts to avoid faction losses to apposing empires - using alts of apposing factions to run missions knowing that when they attack the "alt" they loose standing ( ir amarr alt in npc corp gets shot at by amarr fw pilots the amarr pilots loose standings. ) - Amarr npcs need to do whatthey know best. Neuting at 40+ km. - ships with covert ops cloaking devices cannot enter fw acelleration gates, this should stem the tide of stealth bombers online. thats about alli have to add.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.31 13:02:00 - [496] Originally by: Major Atrocity ... - If you see someone using a non-militia alt to run missions petition him. They can be used to tank missions but not complete them (as per last round of petitions). - Balancing NPC's so everyone faces the same challenge is enough, slapping more (yes, more they already have some) neuts on Amarr's doesn't do anything as an AB uses negligible cap. - Just make cloaking impossible in DED space, primary value of cloakies would then be slightly safer transit. Probably interferes with crap in null though and they are very fond of their gimmicky grief mechanics so won't happen. Also, BUMP!
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.07.31 14:44:00 - [497] Stemming the tide of people running missions will not really fix what needs fixing. If people want to farm isk they will do it else where and leave low sec a bit more empty. CCP needs to make plexing fun. That means making it pvp not pve. Let militia players know when plexes are entered! Here is a proposal that will do just that: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.01 15:38:00 - [498] Edited by: Karl Planck on 01/08/2011 15:40:15 BUMP we want what you promised FW is alive and well, treat it as such I have been having a fcking blast in eve, but i must admit this dismissal is annoying Edit: I know what we need to do here. Make this thread about ponies. Where is the ponies crew? FW ponies maybe? I would rather see this thread locked for being off topic than to see it constantly ignored ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Erik Finnegan Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne	Posted - 2011.08.02 11:52:00 - [499] Not iterating on FW is the most disappointing of all abandonned features. Even worm-holes, while having potential for more game play, are more ok, since the features they provide do not cry for iteration and balancing as much. So, iterating on FW I would like to see. Though I do not find the crowd sourcing results very much in favour of FW...
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.02 12:14:00 - [500] Originally by: Erik Finnegan ...So, iterating on FW I would like to see. Though I do not find the crowd sourcing results very much in favour of FW... FW doesn't need iteration, it needs a complete overhaul. Since team BFF seems to be the only flexible crew they have, with the rest following whatever release schedule there is, is it any wonder that people have given up on getting through? Blueballed at Fanfest -> promised blog/statement as consolation -> blueballed on consolation prize ... That is the problem we have, hard as hell getting people riled up if one never gets any feedback

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.02 22:23:00 - [501] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Erik Finnegan ...So, iterating on FW I would like to see. Though I do not find the crowd sourcing results very much in favour of FW... FW doesn't need iteration, it needs a complete overhaul. Since team BFF seems to be the only flexible crew they have, with the rest following whatever release schedule there is, is it any wonder that people have given up on getting through? Blueballed at Fanfest -> promised blog/statement as consolation -> blueballed on consolation prize ... That is the problem we have, hard as hell getting people riled up if one never gets any feedback Maybe we need to get the various Militia's to sit in their respective high sec trade hub (Jita, Amarr etc...) and shoot statues etc... in protest to make CCP listen??? I tried a CCP Soundwave callout thread as well to try and boost the visability since he was the 3rd reply to the 0.0 call out one... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1560214 No CCP response yet - though some continued support...
dgastuffz Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.03 19:21:00 - [502] so with the latest dev blog we can give up on FW its over out
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.03 19:36:00 - [503] Edited by: Cearain on 03/08/2011 19:37:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DisZ6qmNdbo&feature=related -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.03 19:52:00 - [504] With "feature abadonment" a topic in the csm minutes I'm fairly certain ccp will just ignore us instead of outright say that they won't be doing any more development for FW so we stay subscribed and continue being milked...
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.04 23:04:00 - [505] Well, I've been doing a bit of FW plexing with some of the Amarr Militia guys the last few nights - has been kinda ok. Sure would be nice if we had something to talk about regarding IMPROVEMENTS to FW though CCP....
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.08 23:22:00 - [506] Yup - this IS still alive
Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.09 20:19:00 - [507] a bump for the children in the broomcloset turned gas chamber.
Acrior	Posted - 2011.08.09 21:21:00 - [508] So what we do is end the war and exploit the massive FW mission rewards so CCP will have to look it at... right? Right?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.10 01:19:00 - [509] Originally by: Acrior So what we do is end the war and exploit the massive FW mission rewards so CCP will have to look it at... right? Right? Well, that is one option. Stop FW being a sink and turn the faucet on as far as it will go... Though they will probably just decide to fix the issue by nerfing the missions knowing CCP
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.11 16:11:00 - [510] Here is a thread where I try to list the various ideas that have been brought up regarding fw: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1564233&page=1#1 I think going through that list would make for a decent roundtable discussion. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Malkev	Posted - 2011.08.11 16:33:00 - [511] Edited by: Malkev on 11/08/2011 16:33:35 Originally by: CCP Manifest couple days time Originally by: CCP Manifest It'll come shortly...You've been patient for this long...just a week or so longer please. Originally by: CCP Manifest as soon as possible. Originally by: CCP Manifest Perhaps later on Originally by: CCP Manifest near future. SoonÖ at its finest. I don't even care about FW, but this is just ridiculous.
Uriel Orestes	Posted - 2011.08.11 16:42:00 - [512] It would be a good idea to come up with a well structured post that lists in detail what the FWers feel are the main issues that make the system so horrid. Well written, though out discussions (unlike this post) are the only chance of getting CCP's attention at this point. Bumping this thread with vitriol for CCP dropping the ball is going to get nowhere or more Soon TM replies at the most. If I didn't have a hectic RL, I'd write a post (complete with colors and formatting), but I just don't have the time to do the research and write up a good report. However, I think at least one of you in this thread has that time. And yes, I've been involved with FW for a year now, so I do feel all of your pain with how ****ty it is.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.11 17:10:00 - [513] Originally by: Uriel Orestes It would be a good idea to come up with a well structured post that lists in detail what the FWers feel are the main issues that make the system so horrid..... What, again? We have been making those "well structured" posts for years to no avail .. they always degenerate into "Gief Moar Stuffz!" crap from the mission-whoring population. Short: - Plexing ridiculous, based solely on DT shuffle if :serious:. Can be done in a frigate, all of it. - Occupancy does squat -> plexing meaningless. - Pirate/Navy hulls a must unless solo-ninja-plexing. - Missions too easy, solo bombers should not be possible. - No RP input whatsoever for nearly two years. - Alliances not able to participate. - Huge discrepancies in geography (worst if looking at Amarr/Matar side). - Etc. Etc. Ad nauseum.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.11 17:19:00 - [514] Originally by: Uriel Orestes It would be a good idea to come up with a well structured post that lists in detail what the FWers feel are the main issues that make the system so horrid. Well written, though out discussions (unlike this post) are the only chance of getting CCP's attention at this point. Bumping this thread with vitriol for CCP dropping the ball is going to get nowhere or more Soon TM replies at the most. If I didn't have a hectic RL, I'd write a post (complete with colors and formatting), but I just don't have the time to do the research and write up a good report. However, I think at least one of you in this thread has that time. And yes, I've been involved with FW for a year now, so I do feel all of your pain with how ****ty it is. Here is a thread where I try to list the various ideas that have been brought up regarding fw: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1564233&page=1#1 I think going through that list would make for a decent roundtable discussion. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Paulize Dn'Injer	Posted - 2011.08.13 00:30:00 - [515] Whoa, has there really been no round table? Pathetic. If this is the direction EVE has been heading lately I canÆt help but note the prevalent inept disregard. Get it together CCP -- all of you -- this is shameful.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.15 02:24:00 - [516] Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer Whoa, has there really been no round table? Pathetic. If this is the direction EVE has been heading lately I canÆt help but note the prevalent inept disregard. Get it together CCP -- all of you -- this is shameful. I beleive someone from CCP DID turn up, but they had no idea about it. I beleive there was a scheduling conflict. Either way - no meaningful discussion occured WITH CCP - just notes of what the players said was taken I think. Nothing has been heard since other then promises that CCP would follow up on FW, but even those promises haven't been followed up on...
Flynn Fetladral Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:21:00 - [517] bump! Follow Flynn on Twitter
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:25:00 - [518] Originally by: Flynn Fetladral bump! apparently you didn't read the Soundwave quote stick a fork in this thread, its done ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:42:00 - [519] Originally by: Karl Planck Originally by: Flynn Fetladral bump! apparently you didn't read the Soundwave quote stick a fork in this thread, its done Hahahaha, I doubt SoundFail even knows that FW is in low-sec .. he probably thinks its some high-sec thing Either way, we have accepted a blog in exchange for being stood up at Fanfest, pretty big sacrifice on our part .. least they can do is honour the promise for reparations.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.17 21:50:00 - [520] Actually I would be willing to bet they will work on FW. I had listened to a podcast soundwave was on and he was asked what he would most like to work on in eve. (or somethign like that) And he said he would like to work on FW. He has been my favorite dev ever since. I do think CCP will get around to FW. It is a fairly obvious move that can boost subscription numbers much more than messing with null sec and dress up. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.17 21:53:00 - [521] It hasn't been 18 months yet. CCP is still wasting time and money on the carebear crap. With no discernable increase in the active daily population too I might add.
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.17 22:45:00 - [522] Originally by: Tokyo Rose It hasn't been 18 months yet. CCP is still wasting time and money on the carebear crap. With no discernable increase in the active daily population too I might add. Increasing the profitability of 0.0 botting is simply much more important than FW. Ah well... 0.0 is CCP's favorite and High sec is where most players are, making of low sec the part of EVE that simply gets left out. They don't like us and we don't generate as much profit as high sec, we are doomed.
Lost InCogneto Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.18 12:21:00 - [523] Im looking at coming to the next fan fest ...................... \o/ CCP can i count on some one being there to chat about fw and have a beer with or am i waisting my time coming all the way from australia ? cheers Lost
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.19 02:27:00 - [524] Originally by: Lost InCogneto Im looking at coming to the next fan fest ...................... \o/ CCP can i count on some one being there to chat about fw and have a beer with or am i waisting my time coming all the way from australia ? cheers Lost If the devs are being given free beer, it MAY be a possibility I guess
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.19 02:54:00 - [525] I have started a Plex for FW thread that can be found here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1567389 Hopefully that will get the beer needed for them to show up for Lost!!!
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.19 07:46:00 - [526] Originally by: Har Harrison I have started a Plex for FW thread that can be found here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1567389 Hopefully that will get the beer needed for them to show up for Lost!!! Fw was compteting with the nullsec alliance lolz by drawing away the critically needed thralls who make up the majority of any nullsec entitys power. Go figure why ccp pulled the plug on fw.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.08.21 14:41:00 - [527] Bump. Maybe we'll get some bug fixes by this time next year. Maybe. [/hopelessoptimism]
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.26 02:14:00 - [528] Just thought I would add a comment here... So anyway - since FW isn't getting any attention, where are the FW uniforms being added so we can at least stand around in our Quarters and look in the mirror wearing official militia get up???
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.08.26 02:31:00 - [529] Originally by: Har Harrison Just thought I would add a comment here... So anyway - since FW isn't getting any attention, where are the FW uniforms being added so we can at least stand around in our Quarters and look in the mirror wearing official militia get up??? FW is just one in a serious of broken lies by CCP. The lesson of FW is: Never, ever, EVER, buy into CCP's hype. CCP are like pros on the street corner, they will say A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G to get your money. "this is going to be awesome, we will keep improving on it and all that, for real we care about our customer's we are dedicated to excellence in iceland, keep giving us money we promise we'll do better this time" "oh, whats that we dropped the ball? yeah about that, we still care we totally do, i just have to... talk to this guy down the hall.. that's it, he's going to make this all better i just need to talk to him but he's real busy. maybe next year or the year after? keep paying for the game though, changes are coming. btw did you see our new character high heels and trench-coats? just $99.95, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, let me tell you how to get more Aurum in your wallet!" --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 12:11:00 - [530] @ Pr1ncess Alia I'm not sure they lied about anything here. In June 2010, they said it would take 18 months before they would work on FW. I and many others complained. And more than a few quit the game altogether upon hearing this news. But I don't think you can also claim they lied. They told the truth. In his latest interview CCP soundwave was hardly trying to hand out false promises regarding eve. However, he did say that FW was a high priority. I think that is good news. So I do think we should keep this thread at the forfront, but also post in some threads about what we actually want to have change in fw. There are very different proposals out there. Some people want to make fw plexxing more of a pve activity with more and stronger npcs, or require people to shoot all of them etc. Others want to do away with the npcs in plexes altogether and make it exclusively a pvp activity. For my part if they "fix" fw by making fw even more of a pve activity I would rather they not touch it. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.08.29 14:30:00 - [531] Originally by: Cearain In his latest interview CCP soundwave was hardly trying to hand out false promises regarding eve. However, he did say that FW was a high priority. I think that is good news. It such a high priority that: - The new winter expansion is going to be (another) interation on 0.0 - This thread after a short attention of the devs (we will get back to you) was ignored - No Questions regarding FW on any substance have been answered in the now dead "ask a dev thread" - Not one dev commented on FW besides "its important" for months (years?) now - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara f japanska tfskuverslun.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:28:00 - [532] Originally by: Ciar Meara Originally by: Cearain In his latest interview CCP soundwave was hardly trying to hand out false promises regarding eve. However, he did say that FW was a high priority. I think that is good news. It such a high priority that: - The new winter expansion is going to be (another) interation on 0.0 - This thread after a short attention of the devs (we will get back to you) was ignored - No Questions regarding FW on any substance have been answered in the now dead "ask a dev thread" - Not one dev commented on FW besides "its important" for months (years?) now I doubt they know what exactly they want to do with it. I mean they said in june 2010 that they wouldn't be able to work on it for 18 months. Someone went to fan fest 9 months later and didn't get any information. Well there probably wasn't any information to give. Consider what would happen: Player: will CCP require all the npcs to be shot in order to occupy a plex? CCP: maybe maybe not we haven't really thoght through how we will change fw plexxing. Player: Will CCP remove all the npcs from plexes and allow players to be notified when they are entered so that it can involve pvp instead of pve? CCP: maybe maybe not we haven't really thoght through how we will change fw plexxing. etc. etc. I'm just as ticked as anyone, that ccp put off fw for incarna, wod, dust, and now another null sec expansion. But I just don't think its fair to say they lied about it. They told us they were putting it off for those reasons. I think its fair to call them stupid for putting this part of the game aside for so long. But I don't think its fair to say they lied about it. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.30 23:56:00 - [533] CCP Soundwave said at PAX that FW is a high priority. He also said low/FW would happen after the 0.0 revamp due to resources. So how about some official feedback - what is the plan for FW CCP???
Salpun Gallente Paramount Commerce	Posted - 2011.08.31 00:53:00 - [534] Until crime watch gets refactered and expanded low sec is a lost cause. Team Gridlock has said publicly that Crimewatch is a high priorit once TiDi gets deployed. With first tests of that system Mid September we can hope that Team Gridlock will have Crime watch fixed in time that Team BFF can focus on lowsec in the spring and Team Gridlock can focus on POS's.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.08.31 02:11:00 - [535] CCP: FW R.I.P. ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Rykuss Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.31 02:38:00 - [536] It really is a shame, I'd considered an alt just for FW. Upon looking into it and talking to those with experience over the years though, why bother? Can I have your Vindicator? :D
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.31 03:07:00 - [537] Originally by: Rykuss It really is a shame, I'd considered an alt just for FW. Upon looking into it and talking to those with experience over the years though, why bother? Simply because it is the best place in teh game to get consistant fun med gang/small gang/solo pvp. Lots of things that could be improved. Could use some love. But hands down, this is the place to be for fun fights if you not a nullbear sheep and you don't love gatecamping. There are lots of butthurt folks with regard to FW, but really, most people can't cut, pure and simple. FW is one of the few places I have seen blue balling used as a successful tactic to generate fights (i.e., blob too often and you'll never get to fight, see Cal/Gal malitia atm). IDK, i want improvements, but can't ignore that it ****ing rocks
What Isdees	Posted - 2011.08.31 03:17:00 - [538] whats a nullbear? Isnt null dangerous an rife with ppl killin each other? Wouldnt that make them PVPbears then?
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.08.31 04:08:00 - [539] Originally by: CCP Manifest Zulu agreed that there needs to be more dialogue from CCP about Factional Warfare--where we've been, where we are and where we are headed. Part of the dev team is going to sit down and hammer that out in some sort of meaningful format and we'll get that to you as soon as possible. Post date: 2011.04.01 Current date: 2011.08.31 'As Soon as Possible': >5 months
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.31 10:29:00 - [540] Originally by: Cearain I doubt they know what exactly they want to do with it. I mean they said in june 2010 that they wouldn't be able to work on it for 18 months. Someone went to fan fest 9 months later and didn't get any information. Well there probably wasn't any information to give. So why raise hopes by scheduling a round-table? And do you really think that they will be starting work on fixing FW in January? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.08.31 10:31:00 - [541] hint [hɪnt] n 1. a suggestion or implication given in an indirect or subtle manner he dropped a hint 2. a helpful piece of advice or practical suggestion Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Teraa Matar	Posted - 2011.08.31 11:02:00 - [542] I gotta say that, overall, i have found FW to be very disappointing. It is either mission runners in cloaky T3s or SBs and speedtank frigs who bounce the instant you enter system, or blobs permacamping a few central systems. Ideas...? Make it possible for opposing players to cause mission failure by doing something in the mission Give more incentive for people to PvP, and I dont mean permacamping the Auga station and/or Kourm stargate And Nerf the Drami... oh, wait. 1/3 aint bad...
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:21:00 - [543] Edited by: Ciar Meara on 31/08/2011 13:15:00 Originally by: Rodj Blake So why raise hopes by scheduling a round-table? And do you really think that they will be starting work on fixing FW in January? I don't think that's fair Rodj, they didn't even show up at the round table so you have to admit they made it really clear that they didn't care about it (FW). January is reserved for blasters I hear, so it will be february (2015). - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara f japanska tfskuverslun.
Apollo Gabriel Mercatoris Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:49:00 - [544] The research shows that attending your own fan fest does not increase sales. Originally by: CCP Soundwave I'll tell you what I believe we should never sell; Anything that messes with the competitive balance of the game. No + stat ammo, no + stat ships and anything of that type.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:22:00 - [545] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Cearain I doubt they know what exactly they want to do with it. I mean they said in june 2010 that they wouldn't be able to work on it for 18 months. Someone went to fan fest 9 months later and didn't get any information. Well there probably wasn't any information to give. So why raise hopes by scheduling a round-table? And do you really think that they will be starting work on fixing FW in January? I don't know why they scheduled the round table. I can only speculate that they had fw round tables in the past and the organizer jsut left it on the schedule. Hence no one came. As far as when will they start? I don't know. They have to finish the null sec expansion. Of course if that has major bugs then it may delay things. But once they get that release launched I think then team BFF will be looking at FW and low sec too. Its a small team but I think its a very good team. Hopefully they just do some minor balancing with null sec so they can get over to fw. But once they start to focus on FW I do not think we will hear back until they decide what direction they want to take FW plexing. It is a core mechanic and has been broken for years. They have to decide if they want it to remain a pve activity where you go shooting npcs or if they are going to take steps to make it more of a pvp activity. They also may want to design some sort of award for occupancy plexing. However they have to be concerned with a situation where everyone joins the winning side. They might also add a few fw exclusive items to the store. Or at least boost some that are pretty worthless like amarr armor plates. I don't think the actual changes will be so hard technically, but I do think they should carefully consider the implications of their actions. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:12:00 - [546] I updated the original post with a little summary of what has happened since the start of this thread in regards to FW since these forums will be locked (again ) soon with the coming (re-)release of the new Eve forums...
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.04 15:40:00 - [547] These forums are going to be retired and frozen soon, right? Bump.
Nin Kimrov Minmatar Kenzi Arms and Munitions	Posted - 2011.09.04 16:27:00 - [548] I agree, this need to be first, for memory.
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.09.04 21:16:00 - [549] Originally by: Nin Kimrov I agree, this need to be first, for memory. /nods I agree with the above statements and/or products. - English only please. Zymurgist
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.05 01:19:00 - [550] I found PvP in a plex today. Seriously.

Nin Kimrov Minmatar Kenzi Arms and Munitions	Posted - 2011.09.05 01:27:00 - [551] Originally by: Shaalira D'arc I found PvP in a plex today. Seriously. Sorry, but I cannot believe you. That was your alt you shot in there, right?
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.05 01:59:00 - [552] Originally by: Shaalira D'arc I found PvP in a plex today. Seriously. limited time offer - 13 plex for 199.99 reported by CCP Loktofeit \| 2011.09.02 16:26:25 From now until September 16th, players can take advantage of a first time ever discount on bulk orders of PLEX. Pick up a pack of 13 PLEX for only 199.99. Play the market, pad your wallet, build your empire. That's right folks - for just 199.99, you can get 13 plex to pvp in!!! CCP is dedicated to bringing MT to FW!!!
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.05 04:19:00 - [553] Originally by: Nin Kimrov Originally by: Shaalira D'arc I found PvP in a plex today. Seriously. Sorry, but I cannot believe you. That was your alt you shot in there, right? Yes, I admit it. Me and my alts comprise 62% of the Gallente and Caldari FW populations right now. Originally by: Har Harrison limited time offer - 13 plex for 199.99 reported by CCP Loktofeit \| 2011.09.02 16:26:25 From now until September 16th, players can take advantage of a first time ever discount on bulk orders of PLEX. Pick up a pack of 13 PLEX for only 199.99. Play the market, pad your wallet, build your empire. That's right folks - for just 199.99, you can get 13 plex to pvp in!!! CCP is dedicated to bringing MT to FW!!! Roughly $400 to flip a system's occupancy? Totally not worth it. CCP scam best scam.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.05 09:42:00 - [554] Bump in old forums... I've got to head out and won't be back before DT - so I fully expect this to be my last post on the old forums. So I figured I should use it to bump THIS thread in the hope that it is immortalised on the front page of the archived old forums General Discussion topic list... This thread WILL be continued on the new forums BTW
Lei Saraki	Posted - 2011.09.05 11:38:00 - [555] Just wanted to say tha FW is something I'd like to participate in, but the current state it is in makes it a little difficult. Thank You.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.05 12:35:00 - [556] Bumping for great justice. It's possible these forums won't be frozen until they're 'archived' later this week.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.05 12:51:00 - [557] Well, I am back from touch rugby and the forums are still here. So to give a non-bump bump, I guess I will tell you all that we lost, I scored our only touchdown (yay for me) and CCP STILL haven't shown the slightist desire to make up the the FW community for what happened at fan fest 2011...
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 13:03:00 - [558] FW was interfering with nullsec. At its most popular there were more enjoyable and more importantly playable cap ship and small to medium gang fights in fw than in nullsec. Not to mention the literal thousands and thousands of nullsec thralls dumping the nullsec game for fw. The nullsec leaders then started crying like little children and ccp made sure to leave fw to rot with all the bugs and exploits. All fw is now is a free wardec to go station camp and play the redock and ship up game over and over and over and over. Go figure its a ghost town now.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.06 00:17:00 - [559] Originally by: Tokyo Rose FW was interfering with nullsec. At its most popular there were more enjoyable and more importantly playable cap ship and small to medium gang fights in fw than in nullsec. Not to mention the literal thousands and thousands of nullsec thralls dumping the nullsec game for fw. The nullsec leaders then started crying like little children and ccp made sure to leave fw to rot with all the bugs and exploits. All fw is now is a free wardec to go station camp and play the redock and ship up game over and over and over and over. Go figure its a ghost town now. The sad thing is there is more than a grain of truth to what you say - FW does provide for some great small scale fleet warfare, even with the use of limited caps. Shame the reasons to risk a cap are non-existent in terms of the rewards offered for PvP. <tl;dr> BUMP!!!
So Ang	Posted - 2011.09.06 00:43:00 - [560] make the system occupancy mean something for the FW-players, like unable to dock up in enemy teritory, or a bonus if you fight in own teritory, or some other reward

Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.06 04:28:00 - [561] Even something minor, like LP rewards for finishing plex's, would go a long way to restoring interest in them. As is, though, I'm all for a reexamination of the entire plex system. 'King of the Hill' can be a fun victory mechanic, but only when you've got other players. Most of the time, you're just orbiting. Anyways, I'm sure all of the relevant points can be brought up by players much more experienced in FW than I am. The kind of dedicated fans who were willing to travel all the way to Iceland to give a detailed account of their favorite game activity and how to revive interest in it. Getting them together would be pretty fruitful, don't you think? You can make a roundtable out of it, even.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.09.06 05:09:00 - [562] Originally by: Shaalira D'arc Even something minor, like LP rewards for finishing plex's, would go a long way to restoring interest in them. As is, though, I'm all for a reexamination of the entire plex system. 'King of the Hill' can be a fun victory mechanic, but only when you've got other players. Most of the time, you're just orbiting. Anyways, I'm sure all of the relevant points can be brought up by players much more experienced in FW than I am. The kind of dedicated fans who were willing to travel all the way to Iceland to give a detailed account of their favorite game activity and how to revive interest in it. Getting them together would be pretty fruitful, don't you think? You can make a roundtable out of it, even. I see what you did there!!!
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.06 14:41:00 - [563] Will today be the day that the new forums are put in? Only CCP knows! Either way, back to the top.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.09.06 15:00:00 - [564] I have made us a thread on the new forum Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2011.09.06 16:40:00 - [565] Time for a Bumpy transition.
Dark Calling	Posted - 2011.09.06 19:12:00 - [566] I agree with alot in this thread and also disagree with some.. But the fact of the matter is that some changes need to be made to FW and need to be made soon.. When i first joined the game it seemed like alot of fun doing missions and other things.. But in the end it got boring.. Then i found Faction Warefare and i can honestly say that i have been playing this game for over 2 years just because i enjoy and love Faction Warfare so much.. Im sure others think the same so it DESERVES Your attention CCP.. I absolutely love the idea of Faction Warefare kills (Player Vs Player kills) giving out LP and perhaps they should give the most LP instead of just boring missions that i and many others dont even do.. Like has been said too many people join FW and dont even fight against the other Militias they just collect tons of LP for little effort.. Faction Warefare deserves better than that and should be based around PVP.. It could be made based on ship type.. For e.g Killing an enemy militia pilots frig gets you 1000 LP killing an enemy militia pilots battleship gets you 5000 LP that would be so much better than what we have now and if your fleeted it can be shared between all on the kill.. Please listen to us CCP and turn this game around for the benefit of the players and in turn the benefit of yourselves.. - DC


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.