It was a bit of sacrasm in regard to the first quote in this post. After all nobody likes paying taxes.

It just shows the state of this community in this game. Probably one of the worst I've experienced out of 11 MMOs. PvPers and PvEers never mix well, always demanding this or that, PvPers in my experience tend to be the worst as they demand that PvEers have to PvP, whereas PvEers don't demand that PvPers have to PvE.

Is it just PVP which dissuades people from going to low/null?

Except this is a PVP game.

Except this is a PVP game.

I don't see a issue per say with the changes, but the overall mindset is terrible. Nerfing one area to try and incentivise people to go to another isn't going to work, it hasn't before it won't now. Depending on how deep CCP tries to nerf highsec, they will end up losing more then they gain. If CCP is really concerned about low-sec then they need to actually change it to appeal to people, not cut around the other areas to force people to go there.

Pretty much, there's no other real dangers/annoyances in low/null that are any different from high.

Thought it was marketed as a sandbox, guess I heard wrong.

You can't really have the latter without the formerGǪ

You can't really have the latter without the formerGǪ

That is indeed true. The point I was trying to make is that the game has many facets other than PVP.

Yes. Those facets are also PvP, just not of the combat kind.
When people say that EVE is a PvP game, that is what they mean: everything in it is PvP. Not everything is combat (although the game would collapse instantly if combat were removed), but all of it is still PvP in some form or another, and being a sandbox pretty much ensures that it must be that way.

Yes. Those facets are also PvP, just not of the combat kind.
When people say that EVE is a PvP game, that is what they mean: everything in it is PvP. Not everything is combat (although the game would collapse instantly if combat were removed), but all of it is still PvP in some form or another, and being a sandbox pretty much ensures that it must be that way.

I dunno when i was last shooting at a gisti predator i dont think it was human controlled.

...and you shooting it meant that someone else missed out on those bounties and the loot that came with it.

You may have been shooting an NPC, but in terms of the overall sandbox, what you were doing was competing with other players over a limited resource. There's a reason why prime ratting space was a valued commodity in the days of old and why messing up someone else's spawn chain would earn you quite a few harsh words in local/corp/alliance chatGǪ

Tippia is using PVP in the extreme broad sense.

The term PvP has been so watered down by some people it's totally meaningless now. PvP is just seen as competition by some people no matter how benign it is.

Tippia is using PVP in the extreme broad sense. Where even WoW on a PVE server is considered PVP. Any form of competition is considered Pvp however for the most part when you reference PVP it means player ship vs player ship.

So stop nitpicking Tippia.

GǪand you shooting it meant that someone else missed out on those bounties and the loot that came with it.

You may have been shooting an NPC, but in terms of the overall sandbox, what you were doing was competing with other players over a limited resource. There's a reason why prime ratting space was a valued commodity in the days of old and why messing up someone else's spawn chain would earn you quite a few harsh words in local/corp/alliance chatGǪ

I've mined people out of an asteroid belt, but I didn't pit my ship against them in combat. Is that not PVP?

I've driven people out of a market (and I've been driven out of a market) through market fuckery. Is that not PVP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

I mean I kind of understand what your saying, but I'm pretty sure the majority of people that play video games see PVP as directly playing against a human oppponent.

I've mined people out of an asteroid belt, but I didn't pit my ship against them in combat. Is that not PVP?

I've driven people out of a market (and I've been driven out of a market) through market fuckery. Is that not PVP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

I mean I kind of understand what your saying, but I'm pretty sure the majority of people that play video games see PVP as directly playing against a human oppponent. I'm also pretty sure tha't what James was referring to when he made the post about PVP that I had oringinally commented on.

people will not assume that non-aggressive actions is PvP. PVP is the new term for PK, everything else is just interaction.

Is it just PVP which dissuades people from going to low/null?

I'd say it's the mindless ganking, the vast majority of low-sec inhabitants shoot everything that moves as a low sec-status is fairly meaningless. Istr it being suggested in another thread (sorry don't remember when, where and by whom) to vastly increase the repercussions of a low sec status in some way (I don't recall the details). This, to me, seems like a good move (well, depending on how they go about it) as it will dissuade mindless ganking (witouth making it impossible) and increase real pirating (= blowing up stuff to turn a profit). If you want to shoot everything that isn't blue, W-Space and Null are that way =>

To me low-sec will be worth it when a newbie stumbles his Cormorant in there and the residents there go "Meh, not worth it." over "WOOOOO! FREE KILL!". Otoh someone flying his Domi crammed full of loot around should still get popped without a second thought. That is the "feeling" low-sec evokes with me when I read the description, not the free for all it is now.

Then again, I'm just a carebear that occasionally jumps into W-space, as I feel W-space is worth the risk a lot more than low-sec.

I can farm a group of mobs and force another player out.
I can fly around and mine everything so the other people leave.
I can undercut everyone's auctions.
...In WoW.. Does that make WoW a PvP game?