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Evannar
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:06:00 -
[1]
I am very annoyed by hybrids and their lackluster, at best, power. I think that the main reason that hybrids seem to be so horrible is that Gallente have a better weapon. My suggestion to improve the use of hybrids is to get rid of drones. This would require that Gallente ships start focusing on using the Hybrids more effectively, instead of relying on bad drone AI and decent dps.
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Petra Nam
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:08:00 -
[2]
This is a good buff. CCP, you should pay this man 
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thingy wotsit
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:19:00 -
[3]
blasters should get more damage and range... should have pulse range... hybrids need love.
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Petra Nam
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:20:00 -
[4]
Hybrids are fine. Drones are the problem.
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Free Frigates
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:23:00 -
[5]
drones cause lag anyways, so if ccp removed drones and fighterbombers we would have less lag
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Shieldss
Northern Freight Unlimited
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:56:00 -
[6]
I support this idea.
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Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.20 16:28:00 -
[7]
Drones are the reason i chose gallente. Little did i know they had huge drawbacks in pvp.
Try getting up in sometime face with blaster and see if you still think that they lack power  I would rather see a buff to gallente ship drones capabilities to make up for the **** poor combat range.
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Miesterio
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Posted - 2011.05.20 16:30:00 -
[8]
c. Gallente needs love for their guns.
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MrCaptAwsm
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.20 21:01:00 -
[9]
Sounds good. I would agree with this idea.
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thingy wotsit
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Posted - 2011.05.20 21:08:00 -
[10]
gallente ships should have mega warp drives - they can let the ship warp any distance to any ship...
you see an enemy sniper fleet 100km from you, you should be able to just warp right into face **** rage and bend them over and shove your blaster up their poop chute...
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Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.20 21:15:00 -
[11]
+1
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.20 22:45:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Petra Nam
Hybrids are fine. Drones are the problem.
Yeah, hybrids are totally fine. Rails doing paint chipping dps and blasters being relegated to an insanely nichT role and inferior to both autos and lasers is really good game balance.
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.05.20 23:09:00 -
[13]
Fix the ships, not the guns.
The (lack) of effectiveness with hybrid blasters are because of not being able to dictate range during close range combat, and web bonuses not being what they need to be for Gallente ships.
This was because of the 'Gallente nerf' patch several years ago.
Although it (in general) made necessary changes to some aspects of EVE ship combat, it effectively killed off Gallente close range PvP with blasters.
Buff the ships, not the guns - the guns worked just fine and dandy before the patch.
Gallente are not the only ships with drones and unless you are going to give me back skill points and remove drones from the game - forget it.
AK
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.20 23:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 20/05/2011 23:31:12
Quote:
Buff the ships, not the guns - the guns worked just fine and dandy before the patch.
Umm, as I recall, before that patch you had nanoships running around still being hilariously faster than blaster slowboats.
The key point however is that QR was pre-projectile buff. Autocannons now have slightly lower tracking than blasters, with better range flexibility, similar dps, selectable damage type, easier fitting and no cap use.
The number of situations in which a blaster outperforms an autocannon is pitifully small, and the dps difference between the two is laughably low.
Give blasters a damage boost so they actually outdps autos and pulses by an appreciable margin, and then give them the tracking to actually apply that dps.
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.05.21 01:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 21/05/2011 01:00:13
This is a ridiculous idea - akin to a left-handed person amputating their preferred hand in order to force themselves to master the use of their right. Kind of.
Hybrids need a buff that makes them more effective, yet one which does not encroach on the defining traits of other weapon systems - so increasing blaster range and fall-off is a no-no. Buffing blaster tracking and damage would help. As for Rails, I can't say - I haven't used them enough to suggest a fix.
As for Gallente ships, they now need attributes that allow them to make use of these weapons. This means, in the case of blaster boats, more speed and more power grid. Gallente blaster boats should really receive some sort of MWD speed bonus instead of the cap usage bonus, as well as a base increase in speed.
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.05.21 01:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Umm, as I recall, before that patch you had nanoships running around still being hilariously faster than blaster slowboats.
The key point however is that QR was pre-projectile buff. Autocannons now have slightly lower tracking than blasters, with better range flexibility, similar dps, selectable damage type, easier fitting and no cap use.
The number of situations in which a blaster outperforms an autocannon is pitifully small, and the dps difference between the two is laughably low.
Give blasters a damage boost so they actually outdps autos and pulses by an appreciable margin, and then give them the tracking to actually apply that dps.
That doesn't fix blaster pvp and unbalances the differentiation between racial combat.
PvP is situational, not a spreadsheet.
You could give them 1,000,000,000 DPS and perfect tracking - but that would not solve the issue of getting into range and holding your victim there.
My point stands - buff the Gallente ships, not the guns they use.
Please, nobody take this the wrong way, but you're thinking in reverse.
AK
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.05.21 01:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 21/05/2011 01:51:08
Originally by: AlleyKat
You could give them 1,000,000,000 DPS and perfect tracking - but that would not solve the issue of getting into range and holding your victim there.
My point stands - buff the Gallente ships, not the guns they use.
I agree to an extent, but I do think a buff to the guns is important. If the buff were large enough, then difficulty getting into range could viewed as an acceptable disadvantage of blaster use.
As things stand now, when you do get into optimal you do a meagre 10% (or thereabout) more damage than a similar sized and equipped vessel; that just doesn't offset the damage you receive trying to get into range! If we're going to lose 25+% of our EHP getting to the target, then we need to be doing 25+% more damage than our opponent when we get there!
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.05.21 13:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
I agree to an extent, but I do think a buff to the guns is important. If the buff were large enough, then difficulty getting into range could viewed as an acceptable disadvantage of blaster use.
As things stand now, when you do get into optimal you do a meagre 10% (or thereabout) more damage than a similar sized and equipped vessel; that just doesn't offset the damage you receive trying to get into range! If we're going to lose 25+% of our EHP getting to the target, then we need to be doing 25+% more damage than our opponent when we get there!
The reason is because web bonuses were altered to an absolute maximum of 60% + scrams switching off MWD, which is unbalanced towards Gallente blaster PvP.
Gallente need 90% webs and zero effect against MWD switch off from scrams, plus a speed and agility increase - how they balance that could be sig radius increases whilst attempting to get into range using MWD.
That I think is a fair balance.
Any ship outside of it's racial optimal should be vulnerable, but once inside it's optimal, it should be yielding optimal performance for it's racial/ship setup.
Close range blaster setups no longer work, and the ship bonuses need to be altered to compensate for the changes made all those years ago.
AK
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DarkAegix
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Posted - 2011.05.21 13:51:00 -
[19]
Edited by: DarkAegix on 21/05/2011 13:51:37
Originally by: AlleyKat
You could give them 1,000,000,000 DPS and perfect tracking - but that would not solve the issue of getting into range and holding your victim there.
What if you use Iron charges and nano/overdrive the ship to hell?
Alternatively, fit tonnes of reactor controls and a MWD one size bigger, then overheat it.
1,000,000,000 DPS will tear any ship apart, as long as it can suicidally get into range for even a split second 
However, speed is not the solution, as CCP have said that they wish to keep racial stereotypes such as "Minmatar are the fastest".
There's agility, but how can that help against kiting?
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Gabriel Kaile
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Posted - 2011.05.21 13:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: AlleyKat
Gallente need 90% webs and zero effect against MWD switch off from scrams, plus a speed and agility increase - how they balance that could be sig radius increases whilst attempting to get into range using MWD.
Yes, let's take Gallente from being back of the bus to being invulnerable to scramblers.
This. Is. A. Great. Not. Really. It's. A. Bad. Idea.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.21 14:38:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Gallente need 90% webs and zero effect against MWD switch off from scrams
Right, because that's totally not stupidly overpowered. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of ways to hilariously abuse this bonus for FoTM solopwnmobiles.
Blasterships should have trouble getting into range. That's the tradeoff for their supposed facemelting dps.
The problem?
There is no facemelting dps on most blasterboats. Those dps figures are EFT only. Autocannons and lasers are just plain better in 90% of situations, including a lot of close range ones. Blasters have a defined nichT, with its own strengths and weaknesses, they just need to be better at it than other ships to a big enough extent to be worth flying.
A Megathron with a rack of neutrons, ogre IIs and mag stabs deals out approximately 1150 dps. A Maelstrom with 800mms is putting out 1036. That's a difference of a frankly pathetic 114, which will be largely mitigated by the fact the Maelstrom can fire:
1. Into the opponents resist hole
and
2. Out to over 30km with faction ammo, and 50 with barrage.
Oh by the way, as one last nail in the coffin, the Megathron only has that bigger dps because it's mounting ogres. Take away drones from both sides and the damage difference is basically gone.
(For the record: it's a difference of 9 dps between a bonused neutron blaster and an 800mm auto. Yeah, I'd totally fly Gallente for that.)
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Veron Kirtor
Gallente
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.05.21 15:49:00 -
[22]
Problem with Gallente is that railguns do crap damage and blasters can't ever get into range.
A few things that could be done to fix this are:
1. "Change the active repping bonuses for the Brutix, Myrmidon?, Hyperion, Eos, and Astarte...etc. to an armor hp bonus.... My reasoning is this; with an armor hp bonus these Gallente ships would not NEED to fit [as many] plates to create a reasonable buffer tank thus "increasing" their agility, allowing for faster flight/"get in range" abilities." Source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508725&page=1
2. Heavily boost Sensor Dampening for Gallente ships, so they can force their opponents to come closer to them.
3. Boost the baseline Gallente ship speed and agility.
In order to fix blasters, some redesign needs to be done. Putting a close range weapon on a slow and cumbersome ship is a design flaw: the ship will almost never get the chance to get into good range to apply its dps. Gallente ships need to be able to get on top of their opponents to use blasters, and that is currently nearly impossible to do.
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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.21 15:54:00 -
[23]
I disagree. Gallente guns combined with their huge drone capabilities are uber. The problem is that most ppl only look at guns and dont consider the drone in their DPS calculations. It's fine the way it is.
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Aglais
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.21 17:23:00 -
[24]
Gallente aren't the only drone users though; I sincerely hope by "remove drones" you didn't mean "cut Drones from the game". My Gila wouldn't be the same without Ogre IIs.
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Caliglia
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Posted - 2011.05.21 19:13:00 -
[25]
drones are some of the most fun weapons to use in eve and frankly there ability to move with your taget is a great. i can understand why some 0.0 people that wanner go sniper setup with there gallente ships might cry abit when sitting with EFT but the truth is that when you go out to that 200 km range the mega with rails is one of the best ships course of its fast firing rate and tracking they offen end up on top on the DPS list.
when it comes to blaster boats its like so manny other ships that you need to use it right at the right times FX jumping in solo against 5 people that got webs ready is not smart.
how ever jumping some BS at the gate and rushing him can give you and edge that really surprices some people.
best tactic i have seen was a pirat that was killing every one in 1 system i hade a probe luncher in high slot and whould use the drons to see when a BS jumped into system then warp to 15 of gate and rush the newcommer using his Sensor booster and MWD for a fast closing he got the web and scram on them and then just drop drones and dusted the battleship with no problems what so ever.
if some one tryed to gank him with 3 or more ships he hade a falcon frind warp in and make like hard for them giving him time to waist a few before buggering off to repair his armor for round 2.
id say this is not a problem but just a matter of tactics and good team worke.
and yes 1 vs 1 where both partys agree to fight it can get really nasty bing the gallente fighter.
but then again when that web and scram is on your taget and blasters starts going you can smile knowing the dread your victim is feeling 
i Highly recoment team worke when using the blaster boats
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Sveti Ante
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:19:00 -
[26]
Look at the Dominix, Hyperion and Megathron. I cant remember the last time i saw a fleet with these ships in it. Some alliances even forbid them because of the HUGE drawbacks. Everyone is going either Abaddons plated, Drakes buffer, Maelstroms buffer shield , 90% of the time. Gallente ships arent even on the lists for most alliances. Even the Gallente BC's are considered no-no's for fleets because of their servere handicaps. The only remotely useful COMBAT ships for gallente are the frigates (t2), thorax, arazu and Ishtar.
Its common knowledge that people will use hurricanes, zealots, vagabonds, munins, drakes, harbingers, From what I have experienced, the main problem is the Gallente ships, not the guns. Blasters work fine but the problem is that you cannot get into range to use them. While most ships for the other races are well suited for their weapons, the Gallente ships are not. Generally all ships have gun/drone bonuses and the gallente are not exception, however the range drawback on the blasters is ridiculous. Far far too handicapping to be useful in PVP except in 10% of situations. So in order to use blasters effectively, you need to get into range. To me, blasters are like the combat shotgun. To use it effectively you have to be close, to get there you need one of the following things:
1. Speed - close the distance before the enemy can do significant damage - Gallente are far from that.
2. Stealth - get close un-noticed - they cant do that either
3. Durability - can get close but take punishmenet on the way, but once it gets close can rebalance the fight. They dont have this, once
Cant do that either, most gallente ships will take crippling damage before getting into range, if they can get there.
4. Surprise - get the drop on someone and warp to zero.
So in most situations, blasters are useless because the ships are not designed to use them, which means have one of the above things, or a combination of them. Getting webbed at 9k pretty much kills your blasters unless you are a battleship.
Bottom line is that its WAY too easy to nullify blaster power and drones. Blasters are nullified through webs, scrams, which almost everyone uses, neuts, optimal range scrips (these simply KILL blasters, period).
DRONES
Drones are nice but they have a few huge drawbacks if you rely on them for DPS.
1. They can be destroyed easily, thereby killing your DPS. Guns cannot be nullified except through fitting of your ship to nullify them...killing tracking, range, neuting them. All of which require you to give up fitting slots. Killing drones requires no modifications, except 5 warrior 2's which everyone has.
2. They are slow to intercept and slow to follow a lot of ships (hammers/ogres). If you get ogres on anything smaller than a BS, which is where you want the DPS,they will probably get outrun unless webbed/scrammed. And its likely you wont get in range to do that either. Sentry drones are the exception but those are worth it at the T2 level, which takes forever to get. Gallente are supposed to be the "Drone Race". Try killing something 40k away in a fleet
fight with drones? Can go have lunch before your drones get there.
The solution to killing Gallente is always the same, - Kite them, warp disrupt, and kill the drones. Voila.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:28:00 -
[27]
Quote:
2. Heavily boost Sensor Dampening for Gallente ships, so they can force their opponents to come closer to them.
Bad idea for several reasons:
1. It wouldn't actually solve the problem. Scenario: You are in a long range ship (the sort you want to get close to you) - a Gallente ship damps your targeting down. What do you do?
- Charge into blaster range and die horribly
OR
- Disengage and laugh.
Basically this would be either horribly overpowered or useless.
2. No weapon should be utterly dependant on a dedicated EWAR module to work at all.
3. Gallente mid slot numbers suck. Are you saying every blaster boat should need to be babysat by a dampener boat?
Quote:
3. Boost the baseline Gallente ship speed and agility.
No. What we don't need is another Minmatar. Blasters should have their face melting dps, at the cost of having to deal with their range issues. What's the point of a range weakness when the ship carrying the turrets can just waltz into range of anything it wants?
I'll say it again:
Buff blasters so the damage gap between them and other turrets is much bigger than it is now.
Getting into scram range of a blasterboat should be an "oh crap" moment, but the blaster pilot should have to work for that.
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Sveti Ante
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:31:00 -
[28]
[Based on the above gallente ships should be designed to (not all the bonuses together):
1. Get into range of blasters fast so a MWD speed bonus would be good (Deimos, Megathron, Hyperion). A bonus that can be used a limited number of times so it doesnt make that ship perma uber fast with the MWD. My suggestion would be a massive bonus to MWD overloading, something like 25% over the standard bonus and slightly increased damage from overload. This way you can close in on someone but you cannot perma chase them down with your uber boost, only for a short time. This particular bonus would have to be coupled with a somewhat reduced signature radius penalty when using the MWD, so they dont get insta locked and pulverized by longer ranged ships.
2. Drone speed bonus, probably 15% per level. Both to make them harder to kill/track and faster to intercept their targets. This bonus would be on top of the damage and HP bonus. The ogres and hammers need this badly. A drone boat MUST have this. Giving blaster damage bonus to a drone boat is useless and not in line with the ship's purpose.
3. Bigger bonuses on overloading hardeners and reppers for survivability in close range combat, where everyone is hammering you.
My two cents.
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Jack Moove
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:32:00 -
[29]
I agree and dissagree with many of the posts in this thread.
Having played the snot outa Gallente I feel your pain.
Personally I moved to Minmatar and all problems solved.
Screw Gallente I aint goin back to that mess of crap ships.
Minmatar ships are faster, better/easier to fit due to not having gimped slots due to drones (eg. Incursis) and there weapons have range and tracking and damage and missles are always better than drones.
Blasters dont need more damage though, there damage without drones is superrior to autos. there problem is getting into range. Instead of fitting MFS fit TE. this will give you more range and falloff and your damage output is still better than autos.(compare in EVE Fit tool)
but this dooesnt solve the problem cause there still fairly short in range and gallente are SLOW boaters. a bonus that reduced the sig penalty on MWD would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. there ships work ok mostly cept for the range thing using AB but soon as you fit a MWD to enable you to close to blaster range the whole ship fails and gets blown up cause of sig. Im not suggesting you make them cap stable using MWD or nothing Keep it pulse, just that sig radius is to devestating to frigs who get it the worst from that penalty and who need MWD the most. I think the mwd sig penalty and mechanics is a half baked fix and is crap anyways
Now about frigs and drones, (Eg Incursis) the ship is gimped by its slots cause it has a single drone. you cant fit a stealth, vamp, neut, or anything helpfull without the 4th high. you cant fit a deacent tank with 2 lows, mids are fine.
so by having the drone on the ship it removed 1 slot that gimps what the ship can do totally. because of this alot of frigs and cruisers are gimpy not able to specialise in anything (not even in drones cause most of there ships dont have a drone bonus so how do you specialise in them if you got no bonuses for them) always split and half baked because they got a drone or 2 that gets poped in the first 10 seconds if you even bother to deploy it (I dont on frigs t2 drones cost more than the frig y spend twice the isk on half a ship, blasters wo/ the drone do more dps vs autos anyways.
In my opinion there frigs should mostly be droneless and have an reassesment of there slots and functionality.
I can add more to this but i dont want to turn it into a rant.
My sugestion to all Gallente players that are disturbed by Gallente, reroll to another faction. minmatar and caldari are the best overall but there are also some very nice ships in Amarr.
Goodluck
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Sveti Ante
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jack Moove
I agree and dissagree with many of the posts in this thread.
Having played the snot outa Gallente I feel your pain.
Personally I moved to Minmatar and all problems solved.
Screw Gallente I aint goin back to that mess of crap ships.
Minmatar ships are faster, better/easier to fit due to not having gimped slots due to drones (eg. Incursis) and there weapons have range and tracking and damage and missles are always better than drones.
Blasters dont need more damage though, there damage without drones is superrior to autos. there problem is getting into range. Instead of fitting MFS fit TE. this will give you more range and falloff and your damage output is still better than autos.(compare in EVE Fit tool)
but this dooesnt solve the problem cause there still fairly short in range and gallente are SLOW boaters. a bonus that reduced the sig penalty on MWD would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. there ships work ok mostly cept for the range thing using AB but soon as you fit a MWD to enable you to close to blaster range the whole ship fails and gets blown up cause of sig. Im not suggesting you make them cap stable using MWD or nothing Keep it pulse, just that sig radius is to devestating to frigs who get it the worst from that penalty and who need MWD the most. I think the mwd sig penalty and mechanics is a half baked fix and is crap anyways
Now about frigs and drones, (Eg Incursis) the ship is gimped by its slots cause it has a single drone. you cant fit a stealth, vamp, neut, or anything helpfull without the 4th high. you cant fit a deacent tank with 2 lows, mids are fine.
so by having the drone on the ship it removed 1 slot that gimps what the ship can do totally. because of this alot of frigs and cruisers are gimpy not able to specialise in anything (not even in drones cause most of there ships dont have a drone bonus so how do you specialise in them if you got no bonuses for them) always split and half baked because they got a drone or 2 that gets poped in the first 10 seconds if you even bother to deploy it (I dont on frigs t2 drones cost more than the frig y spend twice the isk on half a ship, blasters wo/ the drone do more dps vs autos anyways.
In my opinion there frigs should mostly be droneless and have an reassesment of there slots and functionality.
I can add more to this but i dont want to turn it into a rant.
My sugestion to all Gallente players that are disturbed by Gallente, reroll to another faction. minmatar and caldari are the best overall but there are also some very nice ships in Amarr.
Goodluck
I agree, most gallente ship slots make them sorta handicapped. The hyperion is the most classic example of a pile of scrap metal that costs 155 million.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.21 21:33:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Blasters dont need more damage though, there damage without drones is superrior to autos
Not really no. Did you not see my post above? The difference between autos and blasters is tiny, and the advantage blasters do have is EFT figures only.
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VoT o7
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Posted - 2011.05.21 22:01:00 -
[32]
My personal fav surprise for most shis. Megathron - Rack of blasters - 1 heavy neut - 3web drones - 2 tracking drones - MWD on overheat a few seconds.... wtf melt everything with your dps. BTW if your gonna use dps drones stop using oger 2's use beserkers they hit the exp hole and make up for the loss of dps.
I will admit, a lot of people want to use dmg drones... yeah they are great... But when your mega with a proper fit and max skills can do over 1k dps... do you really need dps drones?? Web drones with TD drones works good... with a heavy neut most smaller ships lose the ability to use mwd and against battleships they probly wont realize you're using web/td drones till its too late and by the time they lock the drones to throw war 2's on them... bam in their face melt.
I do think blasters have bad tracking tho, even with max skills i can sit in opt of a ship and blast away at it and get very inconsistant hits... douno why, bugs me. But tbh I think a lot has to do with the transversal.. yeah a speed bono would be great!! not... atm how it is, you pretty much have to KEEP at distance from another ship to elminate the transversal effects for your blasters to hit. That means you pretty much have to stop. Which sucks, ever try hitting a ship with blasters with your mwd on, while you are both moving.. not gonna happen even if its a bs in your opt.
I don't think dps is an issue, I think it's tracking and transversal.
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Caliglia
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Posted - 2011.05.21 22:44:00 -
[33]
Have any one considered the old bug where you moved to close to the person you where attacking i think it starts at 1 km and the game cant figure out who are where and moving in what direction and the transversal becomes huge.
i used it a few times to great benefit when flying missile firing Amarr ships.
I just set my ship to orbit at 500 m and the turret boat got big problems at tracking me with his guns.
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Sveti Ante
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Posted - 2011.05.22 03:27:00 -
[34]
Yeah but we are talking about NON BUG balance here.
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General Domination
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Posted - 2011.05.22 07:44:00 -
[35]
Edited by: General Domination on 22/05/2011 07:53:20
Originally by: AlleyKat
Fix the ships, not the guns.
The (lack) of effectiveness with hybrid blasters are because of not being able to dictate range during close range combat, and web bonuses not being what they need to be for Gallente ships.
This was because of the 'Gallente nerf' patch several years ago.
Although it (in general) made necessary changes to some aspects of EVE ship combat, it effectively killed off Gallente close range PvP with blasters.
Buff the ships, not the guns - the guns worked just fine and dandy before the patch.
Gallente are not the only ships with drones and unless you are going to give me back skill points and remove drones from the game - forget it.
AK
Dear CCP,
absolutely, gallente ships needs a agility/speed bonus to the ship itselfs and a dronespeed bonus to dronebays.
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Kelly Kavanagh
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Posted - 2011.05.22 08:52:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kelly Kavanagh on 22/05/2011 08:57:40
Get rid of drones? Unthinkable!
Instead, give Gallente ship pilots the unique ability to issue attack orders to drones without requiring a target lock, and automatically lunch drones when an attack order is issued.
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Ghost Nightmare
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.23 00:38:00 -
[37]
90% webs, nuff said.
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Sakaras Lane
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Posted - 2011.05.23 01:19:00 -
[38]
With the old web percentages blaster boats used to be amazing, that being said with the newer percentages gallente ships just can not close the distance or hold down a fleeing enemy to stay in range. I made the switch a year ago or so away from Blaster ships to Autocannons they do equal damage track on almost anything within 20km and do not take cap to use. Blasters just have to many weakness and not enough utility an example of this is tracking, falloff, energy neuts. Gallente ships need to be slightly faster about 15% across the board and the problem would be fixed.
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.05.23 03:08:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 23/05/2011 03:10:53
*sigh* I just cannot make blasters and an armour tank work. I just get kited.
I'm now turning to shield tanks coupled with medium ECM drones. It's going to be difficult to make do without a web, but with overdrives and an overheated MWD I think I can get a Brutix (don't laugh!) up to an (almost) acceptable speed. And with the cover of medium ECM drones, it should make evading damage/neuts/webs as I close in much easier. And because I'm not fitted with plates or reps I'll have more lows for damage mods, and more grid for Medium Ions and even some Neutrons.
I'm still testing this set-up, but it really can't be any worse than the bricks I've been flying. You just cannot catch anyone flying these ships they way they are meant to be flown. Oh, the things I've had to do to my blaster boats to try and make them work!
I'm a bad, bad man. 
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TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 03:24:00 -
[40]
the least they can do to boost hybrids is remove the reload rate, since hybrids have the most range choices it kinda makes sense
alternative: half the time of reload rate
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Shieldss
Northern Freight Unlimited
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2011.05.23 03:29:00 -
[41]
I have to agree with the OP. Although with one small tweak. Allow the current specialty drones, like EWAR or logistics drones, but just get rid of combat drones. This would force Gallente to not only use hybrids more, and thus making them an effective dps tool be default, but still allow drones to play an important role in the ability of a Gallente combat pilot to perform combat.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.23 03:41:00 -
[42]
I agree, remove white tree from game and fix caldari
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Sveti Ante
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Posted - 2011.05.23 05:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shieldss
I have to agree with the OP. Although with one small tweak. Allow the current specialty drones, like EWAR or logistics drones, but just get rid of combat drones. This would force Gallente to not only use hybrids more, and thus making them an effective dps tool be default, but still allow drones to play an important role in the ability of a Gallente combat pilot to perform combat.
I disagree. Drones are a nice addition to the game. Getting rid of drones wont make Gallente better. Your remedy is like remove the crutch of the cripple to force him to walk more and make better use of whatever legs hes got...duh.
I think the overall consensus is that currently the Gallente ships overall...suck...for PVP ,which is a very overall descriptive term. Drones are nice toy but need to be much better to be a force to be reckoned with in PVP for sub capital ships. Gallente are a kind of combination of half measures and semi proficiency, a sorry mediocrity that just doesn't measure up to the other races when push comes to shove, being inferior in every respect except maybe remote repping POSs.
Lets hope CCP does something about this (SOON!) and makes the Gallente the up close and personal nightmare they are meant to be. I switched training 7 months ago to Minmatar after I realized just how underpowered the Gallente are.
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Ghost Nightmare
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.23 07:26:00 -
[44]
How many of you have flown a vindicator.
Its basically an old-school megathron with more raw-firepower.
even with less DPS it still works like a charm because of its 90% webs.
Thats all hybrids have ever needed, getting webbed by a blasterboat should be a massive oh-**** moment.
perhaps to keep balance we could settle for 80% webs?
But thats the simplest and easiest solution.
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Jack Moove
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Posted - 2011.06.06 03:47:00 -
[45]
Thought I might add something to this thread, 2 builds for the Incursis. I havnt tried them in pvp and quite frankly I wont, if im gona pvp Ill fly Minmatar but I made them with this thread in mind so here we go. incadently they are both shield tanks.
setup 1:
this is a compleetly Defensive setup with pvp in mind. I made it considering blasters ultra short range and decided that because you cant dictate range effectivly it might be better to be able to choose what fights you can win and be able to leave when a fight is going belly up.
lows:
x2 stoik core equalisers
mids:
x1 1mn afterburner 2
x1 small f59 regolith shield induction
x1 fleeting progressive warp scrambler
highs:
x3 regulated light ion phase cannon
rigs x2 anti em screen reinforcer
x1 anti thermal screen reinforcer
drones:
x1 pesky drone of choice
so basicallly your not gona win any dps medals but if you dont like how the fight is going simply warp out and find someone else that cant kite you.
setup 2:
this fit plays on a large pasive shield tank using rails to reach out and touch someone. it sports a 20k disruptor, basically keep tham at 15k and blast till there dead. if they wana get in close use antimatter(5k), for normal range lead, if they try to kite past 20k iron.
lows:
x1 magnetic feild stab 2
x1 tracking enhanser 2
mids:
x1 1mn ab2
x1 fleeting warp disruptor
x1 medium f59 regolith shield induction
highs:
x3 75mm gatling rail 2
rigs:
x2 anti em screen reinforcer
x1 anti thermal screen reinforcer
drones:
x1 pesky drone of choice
remember assault frigs are the inbetween of intys and heavy frigs(tristan, rifter) so if you wana take down rifters the tristan would be a better choice, with 2 standard launchers and a drone you get 3 damage sources on the target out to 35 - 40k if they wana get in close you get 2 more guns to put on them. the only thing that makes the tristan hard is it requires a fue more skills to get the most outa it. once you got some better skills though the ship becomes alot better.
anyways if you try these 2 builds out let me know how they played, what you liked and disliked etc.
there a complete 180 from the Minmatar idea of pack as much dps as possible. but if played smart i think they have to potential to be alright.
sry for any typos
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.06 08:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sveti Ante
I agree, most gallente ship slots make them sorta handicapped. The hyperion is the most classic example of a pile of scrap metal that costs 155 million.
Amen to that.
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Jessy Berbers
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.06 08:40:00 -
[47]
I would like to see a fix to, and yes, Gallente there speed and agility does need quite an increase, as Gallente is the race probably that has no viability what so ever in PVP situations.
Probably even more so...People probably even lurking in gallente space to try and gank gallente.
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Unbendable McRib
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Posted - 2011.06.06 13:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: thingy wotsit
blasters should get more damage and range... should have pulse range... hybrids need love.
agree with that give love to Hybrids!!
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TheSpyInCorp
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Posted - 2011.06.06 15:24:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Unbendable McRib
Originally by: thingy wotsit
blasters should get more damage and range... should have pulse range... hybrids need love.
agree with that give love to Hybrids!!
great, so then we'd have two groups of weapons that do exactly the same thing, except blasters will use a little less cap and use charge ammo instead of crystals. Oh heres an idea, lets give all hybrids the ability to fit scripts. We'll have a laser script so hybrids can be lasers, then we'll have a projectile script so they can be projectiles.
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Freya Kesanlaulu
Minmatar
Special Operations Corp
Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:21:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Freya Kesanlaulu on 06/06/2011 18:27:19
Originally by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 21/05/2011 01:00:13
This is a ridiculous idea - akin to a left-handed person amputating their preferred hand in order to force themselves to master the use of their right. Kind of.
Hybrids need a buff that makes them more effective, yet one which does not encroach on the defining traits of other weapon systems - so increasing blaster range and fall-off is a no-no. Buffing blaster tracking and damage would help. As for Rails, I can't say - I haven't used them enough to suggest a fix.
As for Gallente ships, they now need attributes that allow them to make use of these weapons. This means, in the case of blaster boats, more speed and more power grid. Gallente blaster boats should really receive some sort of MWD speed bonus instead of the cap usage bonus, as well as a base increase in speed.
+1
Powergrid boost on gallente hybrid ships would fix some problems. I, for example, can't fit Neutrons on any of my blaster ships, except proteus - so that's the main problem: decreased both dps and range. Other problem is that there are not usually enough low slots for both tank and Magnetic Field Stabilizers. (Minmatars are lucky because of shield tank - they can fit 3 gyros in lows and have better dps than gallente hybrid ships)
And tracking boost would help too.
And come on CCP, fix the bonuses for Eos, coz they make no sense. What is purpose of extra drone bay if the drone bandwith is 75? More drones in my dronebay (which is already 150) won't help me a lot. Increase either drone bandwith, drone dps or something else.
EDIT: And... are you all insane!? To remove combat drones from the game?? Drones are the ONLY reason I fly gallente! :)
_______________________________
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:03:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 06/06/2011 20:03:51
Originally by: Freya Kesanlaulu
Edited by: Freya Kesanlaulu on 06/06/2011 18:27:19
+1
Powergrid boost on gallente hybrid ships would fix some problems. I, for example, can't fit Neutrons on any of my blaster ships, except proteus - so that's the main problem: decreased both dps and range. Other problem is that there are not usually enough low slots for both tank and Magnetic Field Stabilizers. (Minmatars are lucky because of shield tank - they can fit 3 gyros in lows and have better dps than gallente hybrid ships)
And tracking boost would help too.
And come on CCP, fix the bonuses for Eos, coz they make no sense. What is purpose of extra drone bay if the drone bandwith is 75? More drones in my dronebay (which is already 150) won't help me a lot. Increase either drone bandwith, drone dps or something else.
EDIT: And... are you all insane!? To remove combat drones from the game?? Drones are the ONLY reason I fly gallente! :)
Yes, few Gallente ships can actually fit the higher tier blasters without sacrificing a tanking bonus by switching to shields. I managed to get 7 Neutrons with 3 mag stabs on my Brutix, but the shield tank I needed to fit to do this is poor. The ships is also still too slow, and the damage it does, though good in theory, is not high enough to offset all the damage taken getting into range. 
CCP should do one of two things: Change the slot layout on the blaster boats by adding a mid slot and removing a low. This would allow for a basic shield tank, MWD, scram and web. Or, if they insist on keep the ships armour tankers, boost the power grid and base speed of the ships so they can fit the higher tier blasters, surive getting in range, and have a chance of catching their prey!
Even with these changes, hybrids are still going to need a buff.
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Kelly Kavanagh
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:01:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kelly Kavanagh on 07/06/2011 03:03:46
Perhaps hybrid charges are what need a buff. They do the same amount of damage as the corresponding frequency crystals but they are more evenly split between the primary and secondary damage types which is kind of a nerf.
Laser turrets tend to be more affective against shields while projectile turrets tend to be better against armor. Hybrid charges aren't good against either.
To compensate for these factors, +1 EM damage to all small hybrid charges with range bonuses; +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large. Then +1 Explosive damage to all small hybrid charges with range penalties; +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large. And hybrid charges with no range bonus/penalty get both damage bonuses.
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SGT FUNYOUN
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:22:00 -
[53]
Gallente is NOT a gun fighter race like the rest... they are THE drones race... drones are their primary weapons not hybrid cannons. Just look at the design of their ships, they are all based on the look of old world technology. That is what makes them... them. Gallente started the Gallente Federation. They are representative of US society (Hey flamers... I am an American so stow your torches). US Society is a very technology forward society. We love to make technology that does ALL the work for us. So by that token the Gallente Federation is a very technology based society.
If you take drones away then you completely destroy the whole story line aspect of the Gallente Federation. Gallente made drones to make life easier and make less manual labor for themselves.
So don't remove the drones. Simply buff the guns a little, or learn how to properly employ your drones. Problem solved.
Yargh.  I be SGT Funyoun. King of the Pirates!!! |
Jack Moove
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kelly Kavanagh
Edited by: Kelly Kavanagh on 07/06/2011 03:18:20
Perhaps hybrid charges are what need a buff. They do the same amount of damage as the corresponding frequency crystals but they are more evenly split between the primary and secondary damage types which is kind of a nerf. Laser turrets tend to be more affective against shields while projectile turrets tend to be better against armor. Hybrid charges aren't good against either.
To compensate for these factors, add EM damage to all hybrid charges with range bonuses- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then add Explosive damage to all hybrid charges with range penalties- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then give all Lead charges both damage bonuses for their respective sizes.
If you want em damage use em drones.
there charges should be like
antimatter: full heat damage no kinetic. antimatter is plasma and plasma has no kinetic properties.
iron: full kinetic no heat. by the time an iron projectile travels the long distance its shed off most of its residual heat from the charge in the casing.
the rest of the ranges between them should split the difference, going a charge up from antimatter adds a bit of kinetic and a bit less thermal all the way up to iron and vice versa.
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Tantabobo
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Posted - 2011.06.07 05:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Gallente need 90% webs and zero effect against MWD switch off from scrams
Right, because that's totally not stupidly overpowered. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of ways to hilariously abuse this bonus for FoTM solopwnmobiles.
Blasterships should have trouble getting into range. That's the tradeoff for their supposed facemelting dps.
The problem?
There is no facemelting dps on most blasterboats. Those dps figures are EFT only. Autocannons and lasers are just plain better in 90% of situations, including a lot of close range ones. Blasters have a defined nichT, with its own strengths and weaknesses, they just need to be better at it than other ships to a big enough extent to be worth flying.
A Megathron with a rack of neutrons, ogre IIs and mag stabs deals out approximately 1150 dps. A Maelstrom with 800mms is putting out 1036. That's a difference of a frankly pathetic 114, which will be largely mitigated by the fact the Maelstrom can fire:
1. Into the opponents resist hole
and
2. Out to over 30km with faction ammo, and 50 with barrage.
Oh by the way, as one last nail in the coffin, the Megathron only has that bigger dps because it's mounting ogres. Take away drones from both sides and the damage difference is basically gone.
(For the record: it's a difference of 9 dps between a bonused neutron blaster and an 800mm auto. Yeah, I'd totally fly Gallente for that.)
Well, you are comparing a Tier 3 battleship (Maelstrom) vs. a Tier 2 (Megathron), of course the Maelstrom is going to come out on top. You are also doing an 8 vs. 7 gun comparison. You should either do Tempest vs. Megathron or Maelstrom vs. Hyperion. Doing so you would see that the Gallente ship provides a fair amount more dps with blasters over the Minmatars Autocannons. But that of course doesn't support your conclusions, so you wouldn't want to do that.
I will concede that to preform well in a Gallente boat requires more skill and tactics than using another races complimentary ship. I think that this reason alone hurts them more than anything, anyone can jump into a nanocane and preform decent. It takes skill to jump into a blaster fit myrmidon and do well.
Now, everything I have said so far is for blasters. I don't use rails outside of frigate pvp, where they preform decently so I will not comment on their effectiveness on larger ships.
--Tanta
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.07 05:52:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 07/06/2011 05:53:26
Quote:
My suggestion to improve the use of hybrids is to get rid of drones.
Was this a troll? lol, stupidest idea ever.
..maybe the real answer is to do away with hybrids and buff drones. lol.
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Kelly Kavanagh
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.07 07:40:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jack Moove
Perhaps hybrid charges are what need a buff. They do the same amount of damage as the corresponding frequency crystals but they are more evenly split between the primary and secondary damage types which is kind of a nerf. Laser turrets tend to be more affective against shields while projectile turrets tend to be better against armor. Hybrid charges aren't good against either.
To compensate for these factors, add EM damage to all hybrid charges with range bonuses- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then add Explosive damage to all hybrid charges with range penalties- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then give all Lead charges both damage bonuses for their respective sizes.
If you want em damage use em drones.
there charges should be like
antimatter: full heat damage no kinetic. antimatter is plasma and plasma has no kinetic properties.
iron: full kinetic no heat. by the time an iron projectile travels the long distance its shed off most of its residual heat from the charge in the casing.
the rest of the ranges between them should split the difference, going a charge up from antimatter adds a bit of kinetic and a bit less thermal all the way up to iron and vice versa.
I had that idea myself and I rejected it because it would force all Gallente ships to always have to get in close to a target to kill it's shields. My idea allows Gallente to kill shields at range before moving in close to kill armor. |
Jack Moove
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Posted - 2011.06.07 07:53:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kelly Kavanagh
Originally by: Jack Moove
Perhaps hybrid charges are what need a buff. They do the same amount of damage as the corresponding frequency crystals but they are more evenly split between the primary and secondary damage types which is kind of a nerf. Laser turrets tend to be more affective against shields while projectile turrets tend to be better against armor. Hybrid charges aren't good against either.
To compensate for these factors, add EM damage to all hybrid charges with range bonuses- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then add Explosive damage to all hybrid charges with range penalties- +1 for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large, and +8 for x-large.
Then give all Lead charges both damage bonuses for their respective sizes.
If you want em damage use em drones.
there charges should be like
antimatter: full heat damage no kinetic. antimatter is plasma and plasma has no kinetic properties.
iron: full kinetic no heat. by the time an iron projectile travels the long distance its shed off most of its residual heat from the charge in the casing.
the rest of the ranges between them should split the difference, going a charge up from antimatter adds a bit of kinetic and a bit less thermal all the way up to iron and vice versa.
I had that idea myself and I rejected it because it would force all Gallente ships to always have to get in close to a target to kill it's shields. My idea allows Gallente to kill shields at range before moving in close to kill armor.
drones kill shields just fine and they do it at range. alot of the time by the time i get to the target the shields are gone.
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Chuc Morris
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Posted - 2011.06.07 09:22:00 -
[59]
Saw 1 triple rep autos myrm + 1 double rep blaster hype and all their bunch of drones be melted like butter by 3 buffer bc's
They weren't using civilian stuff but really looked like
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Evannar
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Posted - 2011.06.07 11:53:00 -
[60]
Can you guys please stop going off topic in my thread?
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2011.06.07 17:57:00 -
[61]
Ok back on topic.
Stop your whining.
I get it, you are mad you can't close distance on your target and keep them in your "WTF PWN HOT SAUCE" range. Guess what? You are the exact OPPOSITE of the issue with most Caldari missile ships. We can't keep them the hell away from us while we apply our "WTF PWN MILD SAUCE". It is almost like there is balance in the world.
I'll wait for the minmatar guy to chime in about how they can't tank like the amarr do.
Oh wait, only Gallente whine.
(If you want to keep complaining about it, switch to Caldari. At least the Gallente have more than 3 good PVP ships)
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.07 19:04:00 -
[62]
Here's an easy fix. Instead of making hybrids a mixture of the worst aspects of lasers and projectiles, how about they make them a mixture of the best aspects of both?
Examples:
Instead of using cap, hybrids use no cap.
Instead of limiting damage type, hybrids have selectable damage type.
Instead of 10 sec reloading time, hybrids have instantaneous ammo reload.
Instead of horrific fitting requirements, hybrids have same fitting requirements as projectiles.
Instead of.... well you get the picture.
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Hermann Fegelein
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.07 21:01:00 -
[63]
I noticed that there is almost no love for rails in this thread.
Maybe we should remove rail use from Caldari, and give rails an extremely high fire rate. Resulting in long range with high ROF but low damage.
Keep the rails current damage and make them fire as fast as autocannons. There is no long range weapon that can deliver high DPS. Missiles get long range but high alpha.
So if we make rails fire quicker, their low damage is negated by the fact they are delivering long range wreckage.
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Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN! |
Eve Citizen236562342
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.07 21:01:00 -
[64]
I noticed that there is almost no love for rails in this thread.
Maybe we should remove rail use from Caldari, and give rails an extremely high fire rate. Resulting in long range with high ROF but low damage.
Keep the rails current damage and make them fire as fast as autocannons. There is no long range weapon that can deliver high DPS. Missiles get long range but high alpha.
So if we make rails fire quicker, their low damage is negated by the fact they are delivering long range wreckage.
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Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN! |
Sakaras Lane
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Posted - 2011.06.10 04:49:00 -
[65]
I fly all the ships the problem with hybrids isn't the damage or the range all though a buff would be nice, the problem falls under speed of the ships and capacitor use, either reduce or remove cap use on the weapon or increase the speed of Gallente ships, if you are going to rely on pure up close damage a ship should have the ability to close the distance. The easy fix is to just increase the speed on their ships keep tracking, falloff, and damage the same adjust the ships base speed.
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