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AT9 Qualifier coverage - a letter of disappointment

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Spectra Damaslaus	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:24:00 - [61] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/05/2011 17:11:25 Originally by: CCP Loxy This is a try at being adaptable and expanding the tournament for the future. In the televised group stages you'll see the top 32 teams, play multiple times, these teams have proved themselves in the qualifiers to be capable and we should have a great show. Very shoddy job this time, but hey there's always the ~future~, you know maybe we didn't want to see the top 32 teams play multiple times ? why add 2 extra matches there when you could've let more people take part instead ? f.i. two of the top 8 teams from last time that are alternates instead of taking part. ~bitter~ Quote: These two weekends are the qualifiers, where we trim the poor teams from the ones with serious ambition. While there are bound to be some good fights here they won't be as good as the group stages, neither has been our coverage in the past which is why we are no longer streaming this part. They won't be as good ? Says who ? It's an entirely different format and very interesting since it's been years since the last 5v5 matches in a tournament.. Quote: In my view the Tournament starts on the 11th with the group stages and the top 32 teams. We can not cover 4 weeks solid of the tournament, nor would a majority of EVE players want to get drowned in news of the tournament for four straight weeks, and in the future if we expand to bring in 128 teams and we have to run the tournament over 6 weeks or more we'll do the same again. The majority of eve players would actually want that, you're completely out of touch and your opinion is not shared by the participants nor the audience. I can understand CCP not wanting to spend money, but you didn't actually need to since there's no shortage of people willing to volunteer to fraps and upload it for you, you (CCP) just didn't bother organizing it. This was suggested weeks ago (and again in this thread) and completely ignored. Quote: I know this is disappointing now, but we feel this is the best option for the tournament. We're increasing the full coverage from one weekend to two, and to compensate we're dropping the rather poor coverage of the unimportant rounds. When you settle in to watch the group stages and finals I'm sure you'll appreciate the decision. Might be acceptable if you had enough "unimportant" rounds for the 40+ teams that didn't make it in, but no you weren't prepared for people to actually want to take part. (or for people to want to actually watch it??) But hey maybe in ~THE FUTURE~ right? AT9 has been the worst organized and prepared tournament to date, maybe CCP should try giving the tournament some tiny fraction of the preparation and money spent on fanfest. Thanks for volunteering your time and all but it's not enough. this. there doesnt even need to be commentary, just show us the ships on each side so we know who has what, whats being shot and whats left and has been blown up.
Lea Ardana	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:31:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP Loxy People will always complain one way or another As far as I can tell everyone here is complaining the same way.
Milli Rachet Waterboard	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:38:00 - [63] http://root-destiny.com/newbies-guide-to-streaming/ There you go CCP! Make something good out of it!

CCP Loxy	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:41:00 - [64] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/05/2011 17:11:25 Originally by: CCP Loxy This is a try at being adaptable and expanding the tournament for the future. In the televised group stages you'll see the top 32 teams, play multiple times, these teams have proved themselves in the qualifiers to be capable and we should have a great show. Very shoddy job this time, but hey there's always the ~future~, you know maybe we didn't want to see the top 32 teams play multiple times ? why add 2 extra matches there when you could've let more people take part instead ? f.i. two of the top 8 teams from last time that are alternates instead of taking part. ~bitter~ I'm pretty disappointed you're not in either but there was the auction which is targeted right at your kind of alliance so sorry but you should have opened that wallet. But this is definitely something I want us to address next year, better checks to remove second and third teams and a structure that can support any number of teams. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: These two weekends are the qualifiers, where we trim the poor teams from the ones with serious ambition. While there are bound to be some good fights here they won't be as good as the group stages, neither has been our coverage in the past which is why we are no longer streaming this part. They won't be as good ? Says who ? It's an entirely different format and very interesting since it's been years since the last 5v5 matches in a tournament.. Overall these match ups wont be as good as the later matches, the main point of qualifiers is sorting out who deserves a place in the tournament. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: In my view the Tournament starts on the 11th with the group stages and the top 32 teams. We can not cover 4 weeks solid of the tournament, nor would a majority of EVE players want to get drowned in news of the tournament for four straight weeks, and in the future if we expand to bring in 128 teams and we have to run the tournament over 6 weeks or more we'll do the same again. The majority of eve players would actually want that, you're completely out of touch and your opinion is not shared by the participants nor the audience. I can understand CCP not wanting to spend money, but you didn't actually need to since there's no shortage of people willing to volunteer to fraps and upload it for you, you (CCP) just didn't bother organizing it. This was suggested weeks ago (and again in this thread) and completely ignored. Not ignored, we looked into it, we talked to people and decided against it. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: I know this is disappointing now, but we feel this is the best option for the tournament. We're increasing the full coverage from one weekend to two, and to compensate we're dropping the rather poor coverage of the unimportant rounds. When you settle in to watch the group stages and finals I'm sure you'll appreciate the decision. Might be acceptable if you had enough "unimportant" rounds for the 40+ teams that didn't make it in, but no you weren't prepared for people to actually want to take part. (or for people to want to actually watch it??) But hey maybe in ~THE FUTURE~ right? AT9 has been the worst organized and prepared tournament to date, maybe CCP should try giving the tournament some tiny fraction of the preparation and money spent on fanfest. Thanks for volunteering your time and all but it's not enough. I'd gladly take more funding and more prep time, raise it with the CSM? --------- Formally known as CCP Charlie Video Producer

Kurj Valdoria Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:49:00 - [65] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/05/2011 17:11:25 Originally by: CCP Loxy This is a try at being adaptable and expanding the tournament for the future. In the televised group stages you'll see the top 32 teams, play multiple times, these teams have proved themselves in the qualifiers to be capable and we should have a great show. Very shoddy job this time, but hey there's always the ~future~, you know maybe we didn't want to see the top 32 teams play multiple times ? why add 2 extra matches there when you could've let more people take part instead ? f.i. two of the top 8 teams from last time that are alternates instead of taking part. ~bitter~ I'm pretty disappointed you're not in either but there was the auction which is targeted right at your kind of alliance so sorry but you should have opened that wallet. But this is definitely something I want us to address next year, better checks to remove second and third teams and a structure that can support any number of teams. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: These two weekends are the qualifiers, where we trim the poor teams from the ones with serious ambition. While there are bound to be some good fights here they won't be as good as the group stages, neither has been our coverage in the past which is why we are no longer streaming this part. They won't be as good ? Says who ? It's an entirely different format and very interesting since it's been years since the last 5v5 matches in a tournament.. Overall these match ups wont be as good as the later matches, the main point of qualifiers is sorting out who deserves a place in the tournament. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: In my view the Tournament starts on the 11th with the group stages and the top 32 teams. We can not cover 4 weeks solid of the tournament, nor would a majority of EVE players want to get drowned in news of the tournament for four straight weeks, and in the future if we expand to bring in 128 teams and we have to run the tournament over 6 weeks or more we'll do the same again. The majority of eve players would actually want that, you're completely out of touch and your opinion is not shared by the participants nor the audience. I can understand CCP not wanting to spend money, but you didn't actually need to since there's no shortage of people willing to volunteer to fraps and upload it for you, you (CCP) just didn't bother organizing it. This was suggested weeks ago (and again in this thread) and completely ignored. Not ignored, we looked into it, we talked to people and decided against it. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Quote: I know this is disappointing now, but we feel this is the best option for the tournament. We're increasing the full coverage from one weekend to two, and to compensate we're dropping the rather poor coverage of the unimportant rounds. When you settle in to watch the group stages and finals I'm sure you'll appreciate the decision. Might be acceptable if you had enough "unimportant" rounds for the 40+ teams that didn't make it in, but no you weren't prepared for people to actually want to take part. (or for people to want to actually watch it??) But hey maybe in ~THE FUTURE~ right? AT9 has been the worst organized and prepared tournament to date, maybe CCP should try giving the tournament some tiny fraction of the preparation and money spent on fanfest. Thanks for volunteering your time and all but it's not enough. I'd gladly take more funding and more prep time, raise it with the CSM? Loxy I think what you're failing to grasp here is that this could all be casted. Very little time would be needed to set it up. It would be in 720p or 1080p. It wouldn't cost CCP anything. You're just choosing not to even try because you don't understand.
visableone	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:50:00 - [66] Originally by: CCP Loxy unimportant rounds well im sure there important to the players,. and seeing as what happens in these so called 'unimportant rounds' effects all the latter matches i have to say 'YOU SIR ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR ARSE'
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:53:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: QwaarJet Edited by: QwaarJet on 28/05/2011 16:48:43 Loxy, listen to what people want. You are so out of touch it's unbelievable. People want 4 televised weeks of the tournament, regardless of how poor the coverage is. This lack of care by CCP for the tournament is unacceptable. There are so many easy and cheap solutions to providing coverage by bringing the community in on this. Every single match in every round is important for so many people. Please don't tell how much I'm in or out of touch or how much I care about the tournament. The team running this are now giving up a month's worth of weekends as volunteers to make this happen and in the future it could be even more. There is a certain quality level that we have to match to broadcast these matches now. Think back to last year and there were just as many people disappointed at the poor commentary or why there was nothing between the matches etc... People will always complain one way or another, but I'd rather our coverage of the "Tournament" be judged on our best efforts and we simply can't give our best for a solid month. Thats why the tournament starts properly on the 11th, along with our coverage. And if in the future if we have to spend even more weekends to cut down the numbers to fit into two weekends we'll almost certainly keep this format and not kill ourselves in the process. People would rather have what we had last year than this year. I think we can pretty much take that as a given, and please stop going on about volunteers giving up their time. We appreciate what they do, but they are VOLUNTEERS. They chose to do it. Not giving any coverage for 2 straight weeks means we have considerably less coverage than last year. We are moving back in terms of coverage. Regardless of what you think, the tournament started TODAY. Every match matters and you have basically insulted every team in qualifying this year with your previous posts about how unimportant this stage is. Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches.
JackStraw56	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:53:00 - [68] As a member of a team that did not get selected to compete after much preparation work, I would really like to just watch all the matches if I can't participate. We pay CCP to play this game so pulling out the "volunteer" card is kind of lame. You are a paid employee. If you're not a paid employee then CCP please use our subscription money to pay your employees. It's simple, CCP has decided not to tape the pre-quals. The players have made it clear they do want to see them. From a professional point of view your next steps are either to say sorry we're not planning to do that, or "due to overwhelming demand we have decided to record the matches". Not make excuses like claiming you're not getting paid enough to devote more time to this. That's not our problem, it's an internal CCP issue.
Daneel Trevize Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:57:00 - [69] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 28/05/2011 17:57:21 Originally by: CCP Loxy Overall these match ups wont be as good as the later matches, the main point of qualifiers is sorting out who deserves a place in the tournament. Are we into 'No true Scotsman' territory here? Are the matches hosted on the official tourne site right now, and happening because of previous rounds of auctions, place draws and even past victories, not part of the tourne? Arbitrary distinction is yours to make but obviously arbitrary and not in agreement with the target audience.
colera deldios Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:58:00 - [70] Seriously disappoint at this decision. Alliance Tournys have always been a great occasion and something I have used to entice friends into the game for years. I think you guys have really dropped the ball with this "some games won't be worth watching so we can't be bothered to stream them" ethos. Kind of insulting to those who have put the time and effort into preparing and getting into this stage.

CCP Loxy	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:02:00 - [71] Originally by: Kurj Valdoria Loxy I think what you're failing to grasp here is that this could all be casted. Very little time would be needed to set it up. It would be in 720p or 1080p. It wouldn't cost CCP anything. You're just choosing not to even try because you don't understand. I think after streaming the tournament since 2005 I might have an idea. The point is we're choosing not to do a sub standard show in order to commit to an awesome two weekends. It's fine saying how easy it is to do an amateur stream but we have to keep a certain level of quality, we have to have backups, we have to have commentators (seriously we'd get just as many complaints if we didn't). We've used this time to start building the set, I've been filming the matches for some awesome footage to make material for the live show. We're all here, we're all working to make this happen but we've decided not to stream it purposively. I'd encourage the teams to fraps or stream their own fights if they want to record their fights themselves. --------- Formally known as CCP Charlie Video Producer

Tyke Orlieveit	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:03:00 - [72] OK. Before this breaks into a "whine at the DEV poster" thread, I'd like to interject a little. CCP Loxy - I'd like to thank you and your team who are volunteering your time to make this event happen. Believe it or not, it's massively appreciated. I think a suggestion that people are wanting to make is, would it be possible for a neutral representative to be brought in ( Eve News, EVE-Radio, etc ) to be able to stream, comment, and report on the low-level matches. I understand, and completely agree, that the beginning matches may not seem as important, but I have to disagree too, as I'd like to hear/see what's going on.. and at the moment all I'm seeing is updates on a website, and the occasional live stream via a player, and I feel it's hurting the coverage of the event as a whole. I know there will be some terrible fights in this run, but that's what the elimination rounds are for, but I feel that a lot of us would enjoy watching these, even if they're reported by 3rd parties, and not directly by yourselves. Is it not possible, if someone from EVE-Radio or EVE News approached you, to allow them into the arena as a spectator to broadcast and witness on this?
Togae Alus Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:04:00 - [73] Edited by: Togae Alus on 28/05/2011 18:06:41 Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: Kurj Valdoria Loxy I think what you're failing to grasp here is that this could all be casted. Very little time would be needed to set it up. It would be in 720p or 1080p. It wouldn't cost CCP anything. You're just choosing not to even try because you don't understand. I think after streaming the tournament since 2005 I might have an idea. The point is we're choosing not to do a sub standard show in order to commit to an awesome two weekends. It's fine saying how easy it is to do an amateur stream but we have to keep a certain level of quality, we have to have backups, we have to have commentators (seriously we'd get just as many complaints if we didn't). what you fail to grasp is that ppl dont really care much for the quality we dont even need the guys that comment the matches we just wanna se the development of the battles because that is what this gaes is aboutr anyway not to go look at some pics and isk stats We've used this time to start building the set, I've been filming the matches for some awesome footage to make material for the live show. We're all here, we're all working to make this happen but we've decided not to stream it purposively. I'd encourage the teams to fraps or stream their own fights if they want to record their fights themselves. Look at it this way this is the football world cup and if in my country or in many other countries the qualifying matches are not televised there will be riots in the street, so just be nice and put a tourney cam up, ill do it if u need me to

CCP Loxy	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:05:00 - [74] Originally by: QwaarJet Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches. There are no plans to change this and we will most likely continue with this setup as we expand the tournament in the future. --------- Formally known as CCP Charlie Video Producer

leboe Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:07:00 - [75] Did you watch the paisti syndicate livestream? It was really good quality. And that was someone busy flying in the tournament. No excuse for anything less, IMO.
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:08:00 - [76] Edited by: Aineko Macx on 28/05/2011 18:09:22 Originally by: CCP Loxy Please don't tell how much I'm in or out of touch or how much I care about the tournament. The team running this are now giving up a month's worth of weekends as volunteers to make this happen and in the future it could be even more. CCP doesn't seem to realize that AT is the most important community event after Fanfest, so the commitment is basically just that: Let a bunch of employees volunteer their weekends to get it done. The flying-in-space part of the game doesn't warrant more than that apparently... Originally by: CCP Loxy These two weekends are the qualifiers, where we trim the poor teams from the ones with serious ambition. While there are bound to be some good fights here they won't be as good as the group stages ... We're increasing the full coverage from one weekend to two, and to compensate we're dropping the rather poor coverage of the unimportant rounds. You miss the point, because a) often the weaker teams produce the more enjoyable matches b) for the viewer the whole event is not so much about finding out who the winner is, but about seeing enjoyable fights (there are no unimportant rounds, just boring rounds <- the rules of AT 7 and 8 were bad for this). Even if CCP keeps not committing fully to this very good thing, you could do other nice things, like for instance crowdsourcing the production & narration of the matches, you just need to provide raw footage... ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Togae Alus Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:08:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: QwaarJet Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches. There are no plans to change this and we will most likely continue with this setup as we expand the tournament in the future. you sir are pig headed stuborn
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:09:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: QwaarJet Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches. There are no plans to change this and we will most likely continue with this setup as we expand the tournament in the future. That's fine, as long as you don't mind pages of complaints from the people you are trying to entertain.
Tyke Orlieveit	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:10:00 - [79] Edited by: Tyke Orlieveit on 28/05/2011 18:10:33 Originally by: leboe Did you watch the paisti syndicate livestream? It was really good quality. And that was someone busy flying in the tournament. No excuse for anything less, IMO. I'd say it's dependent on the user's equipment, and their upstream.. if they have the hardware spare, they can provide a good cast, if the upstream's crap, then we'll see crap.. Also: For those interested, straight from the chatroom: The following matches are being broadcast by the players: 1920: http://www.xfire.com/live_video/neoshocker/ 1940: http://www.livestream.com/at9atlaspreelim?t=388756
Hydraka	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:10:00 - [80] Loxy, people are desperately making their own streams to get some coverage, I guess that means that people are interested. Can we PLEASE get streams for tomorrow or at least next weekend?
Slaktoid	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:10:00 - [81] No matter what I try to write it's just gonna be blinded by rage and fury. Loxy's smug remarks aint really helping either. Disaster...
visableone	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:11:00 - [82] I think after streaming the tournament since 2005 I might have an idea. The point is we're choosing not to do a sub standard show in order to commit to an awesome two weekends. It's fine saying how easy it is to do an amateur stream but we have to keep a certain level of quality, we have to have backups, we have to have commentators (seriously we'd get just as many complaints if we didn't). We've used this time to start building the set, I've been filming the matches for some awesome footage to make material for the live show. We're all here, we're all working to make this happen but we've decided not to stream it purposively. I'd encourage the teams to fraps or stream their own fights if they want to record their fights themselves. rather than 'choosing not to do a sub standard show' for the pre-quals and quals, do an awsome one exaclty what is holding ccp back from doing 4-5 awsome weekends of coverage rather than 2?? sure after setting its all up its just a matter of managment and coverage? what is this limit of only 2 weeks of awsome shows? why only 2? why not 1 suber-uber-awsome show? why not 3? who is setting the measure? because its not us ccp,. its not us
VioleTAK	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:13:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: QwaarJet Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches. There are no plans to change this and we will most likely continue with this setup as we expand the tournament in the future. Fine... Act defensive. Don't own to your lacking capabilities. The tournament has started. It is not covered. Therefore, it is not a 'tournament'. Its just some... whatever thingy... You're making me go watching soccer tonight. It is a sad day indeed, when I am forced to watch a soccer tournament over an extremely rare Eve one... Watching people fumble around with a ball, rather than watching awesome ships blow up. That I've been hyped upon for without calling. At this point, I don't even see why advertise it on your news at all, there's nothing to see, hear, or follow in any respectable manner.
REQUIEMSORN Anakites	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:14:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: Kurj Valdoria Loxy I think what you're failing to grasp here is that this could all be casted. Very little time would be needed to set it up. It would be in 720p or 1080p. It wouldn't cost CCP anything. You're just choosing not to even try because you don't understand. I think after streaming the tournament since 2005 I might have an idea. The point is we're choosing not to do a sub standard show in order to commit to an awesome two weekends. It's fine saying how easy it is to do an amateur stream but we have to keep a certain level of quality, we have to have backups, we have to have commentators (seriously we'd get just as many complaints if we didn't). We've used this time to start building the set, I've been filming the matches for some awesome footage to make material for the live show. We're all here, we're all working to make this happen but we've decided not to stream it purposively. I'd encourage the teams to fraps or stream their own fights if they want to record their fights themselves. I don't think anyone here really cares about your set. The good people just want to see the tournament, which qualifiers or not is going on now. Also, there will always be complaints....but right now no one cares about quality. People would rather watch second rate streaming then nothing at all. I'm pretty sure that has been made clear, so who cares if you won't settle for low quality production if your player base is saying GIVE ME SOMETHING TO WATCH.
Milli Rachet Waterboard	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:15:00 - [85] Originally by: VioleTAK Originally by: CCP Loxy Originally by: QwaarJet Surely you can admit that this was a serious error? I'd like to see some kind of coverage next weekend, instead of leaving it to the great guys that stream their own matches. There are no plans to change this and we will most likely continue with this setup as we expand the tournament in the future. Fine... Act defensive. Don't own to your lacking capabilities. The tournament has started. It is not covered. Therefore, it is not a 'tournament'. Its just some... whatever thingy... You're making me go watching soccer tonight. It is a sad day indeed, when I am forced to watch a soccer tournament over an extremely rare Eve one... Watching people fumble around with a ball, rather than watching awesome ships blow up. That I've been hyped upon for without calling. At this point, I don't even see why advertise it on your news at all, there's nothing to see, hear, or follow in any respectable manner. That's not true! You get to see the pretty isk counter go up! Watch that for a few hours..
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:17:00 - [86] Gladiators without an audience. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Lee ChanKa WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:20:00 - [87] how much it cost to get some radio stream with some guy who know how to read ships names and to say us what ships are deployed and who is shooting on who?
C0deb1ue	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:21:00 - [88] Condsidering we play this game for our love of spaceships and explosions... I consider it bad form to hog them all to yourselves in the studio.. booo
Kurj Valdoria Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:26:00 - [89] Originally by: Lee ChanKa how much it cost to get some radio stream with some guy who know how to read ships names and to say us what ships are deployed and who is shooting on who? at this point I would take a skimatar caster
leboe Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.28 18:29:00 - [90] Originally by: Kurj Valdoria Originally by: Lee ChanKa how much it cost to get some radio stream with some guy who know how to read ships names and to say us what ships are deployed and who is shooting on who? at this point I would take a skimatar caster I guess thats the kind of quality CCP is being so careful to stick to

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