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Returning vet: Incarna will be a different EVE, but so is CCP.

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Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:30:00 - [1] Long dualpost, lots of whine, don't read if you're allergic to cheesy bittervets. I've played EVE for a very long time, got bored, did RL for a while, got bored and have been playing EVE again now for a good month. The game is almost as much fun as it was in the first year, but there have been some changes that I didn't like. One of them is (going to be) Incarna, the other is what it tells me about CCP. First let's have a look at the features of Incarna A boring CQ that's hardly the 'walking around in stations' we are being promised (as if I care, nobody remembers Earth and Beyond, and for a good reason). And even though this tiny room tries to murder my graphics card, the option to disabled it is considered 'temporary' by the devs. Taking bribes from NVIDIA much? An improved tutorial, cute but irrelevant for everyone who played longer then a week. Next! ANOTHER currency... why?! You could have just changed PLEX to have decimals instead of breaking it up in 3500 pieces and calling them 'Orm' A Maller update that wasn't necessary and turns the Sacrilege from a pimped, black and white T2, into a very lazy, brownish T1 reskin. Yet there are still plenty of visual glitches to fix or improve. cough Or how about some more objects for your limited box of dead-space Lego? A visual update for guns. Nice, but it's just reminding us how stupidly small they actually are on ships hundreds of meters long. Not to mention the scaling up between tiers and sizes makes no visual sense. Please, go and hire the guys from Homeworld. The long overdue FIX to Gurista Jamming. Calling this an Incarna 'feature' is like calling the cleaning lady a hygiene technician Jumpbridges... can't really comment. Last time did 0.0 was when ATUK was still around. But I guess Jumpbridges are probably a minor issue compared to 0.0 issues like supercaps curbstomping everything that's not more supercaps. Standings panel: take away something vital without giving reason, (obvious) public outcry, then put a part of it back and call it an Incarna-feature: priceless! Displaying a single guy in simple room manages to drop decent computers below 30 FPS. Yet you dare to mention 'Performance Improvements'? I know it's actually about servers and stuff, but this is just too much irony. The rather pointless CQ aside, this has to be the most content-starved update in the history of EVE. According tot the 'dev-answer' thread, there's plenty 'on the top of our list' but this sounds too much like a new soonÖ. This update seems to be all about CCP leaping onto the bandwagon called micro-transactions. And as a subbie from the first hour, that stings a bit. Though it scares me even more when I hear the complaints about MMORGPs that have already embraced MT. Making more money to do great things won't do me much good if CCP kills my valued gameplay in the process. And I'd hate to see all that money go into Dust. Console shooters are are highly FOTM and personally I wouldn't even use a PS3 to break a window.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:33:00 - [2] But there is more: The many big issues last month that turned into forum-infernos. I'll admit that to err is human and I'll forgive CCP for that. But I think this amount of PR-mistakes in merely a month time is worrying. CCP seems to communicate better with the players. Compliments on the effort of the question-thread and their handling of the DDoS. BUt at the same time CCP's attitude seems to have changed. Not allowing community-streams of the AT-prelims because of CCP's 'high standard of quality' nowadays. Want a cup of 'high horse' to go with that new snobby attitude? Removing the exportable loot-list, perhaps minor, but vital for many big WH-corps. Reason given: CCP Soundwave didn't like the players to have too much functionality. Why don't you just ban spreadsheets if you don't want players to cope with the game's lack of in-game tools?. Are the wallet and market next, or the API? Removing the standings list, without much of a warning, in the same manner of a quack-surgeon amputates a leg for a infected toe. Did you ever ask the CSM about this? And after all that bragging about making them part of the designing-process. CCP Zyfandel shouldn't even be THINKING about selling ships for RL money. He seems like a nice guy on EVE-TV, but he should be punished by reading every threadnought on the forums about RMT-concerns. And now the HUGE mess for going after people like Chribba and sites like eve-central and battle-clinic. I understand CCP Atlas was overly hasty, but my god, what were you expecting?! If it'd be all just about leaving a moneytrail, even a single should have sufficed. And again that preaching about these new 'high standards'. Did you even run this by the CSM at all? And I'm sure I missed a few. It matters little how many things CCP does 'right' if they will also continue this current 'swing-and-a-miss' streak. And all the hyping of Incarna and all the wonderful Aurum-opportunities is making me sick. And a lot of others on the forums as well. Sure it's a case of the verbose minority, but this many threads and posts about it should not be ignored. How about using the CSM for this instead of considering them a mere PR-tool. Now I'm fully aware that I qualify as a bittervet and I haven't played much over the last two years. But that does mean I can see the changes in the EVE and CCP all the more clearer. Good or bad, that's subjective, but I do get the impression the game is played a lot less by most devs then it used to be. That can't be a good thing, now can it? "U MAD?", there, I said it, all trolls can go back under the bridge. I hear there are some goats in CAOD, those are much tastier.
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:37:00 - [3] I needed a flame-suit to read that. Nice assessment though. Always good to hear from a vet.
Ranzabar	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:40:00 - [4] The notion of a Captain's Quarters in Eve is absurd. Don't need it even if it's a style link of sorts to Dust on the PS3. And it will kill the FPS rates on even a decent machine. But I guess CCP has a problem on their hands. The RL economy in Iceland is in the trash and their American and Asian offices aren't doing much better. CCP has to find some income streams to stay above the water line. The income from Eve alone doesn't make for a happy tech investor.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:42:00 - [5] Welcome back Vet. New EVE Online development is dead. New development will be nearly all focused on the Twilight MMO, with its beta called "Incarna" being released very shortly. CCP has moved the majority of their staff off the EVE project, with only an incredibly small token amount of development resources left for anything that can't crossover to Twilight Online. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:43:00 - [6] LMAO. And so very true. +1
San Severina Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:58:00 - [7] +1 & well said, ty, nice to read a coherent post for a change! I worry about EvE, I really do. i've had breaks but the other nite i was wondering how I'd go without EvE in my life. You know what? I'd be just fine - please don't screw us CCP, we will walk, alot of us will at least.
Rhadia	Posted - 2011.06.16 23:58:00 - [8] Don't worry. While you activated just recently after two years? I played for two years and am now deactivating. You didn't miss much. CCP is legitimately abandoning the actual spaceship part of Eve and are only doing just enough to get by. Don't worry about all the flamer threads and dissent, by the way. They're cleaning house, deleting posts, and now they're archiving the whole damn thing again in a few days and implementing the clean-slate new forums. PROTIP: CCP, the rug is entirely too small to sweep all this BS under. Clean up your act.
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:04:00 - [9] man, i have been here since 7 years, NEVER unsubbed. till today (well its still till august, but they got my rant in their feedback box). I feel with you, good post.
Thaledred Askiras	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:35:00 - [10] Well, that CQ thing is just a first step. I guess and hope it will become more useful when time passes. I hope... i really do...
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:51:00 - [11] @ the OP: Well-stated. +1 for the ideas posited here. Our business is CCP's to lose. Oddly, CCP is working diligently, devblog-by-devblog, to alienate their customer base and generate a fairly robust amount of skepticism about their ability to properly manage and improve upon their cash cow, EVE. Originally by: Higgs Bison How will EVE be affected if Dust is a flop?
Blooded Heromy Pardon Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:55:00 - [12] I think all of what you did mention is the reason why i have 1 account active now instead of the 6 i had, and this one will run out soon. Why should i care, i found World of tanks, where eweryone matters and is not killed in hes 2 months work of ship that he thought did matter, but found out hes UB3R carrier or something else did not matter at all. After 2 hours of mowing, 1 hour of lag and activing moudules, he found him self dead after a titan started on him, yes that was the lag, those 53 titans jumping in o-0 Best regards, Addi. Signature removed. Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions - Petwraith
MBrace Amarr Hikivirta Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.17 02:12:00 - [13] Even though I love CCP for making a great game and I know EVE will most likely profit for a long time to come, I can honestly say that I have not been excited about anything in the last 3 or 4 'expansions'. I can honestly say the only major game change that really excited me in the last few years was getting shiny new T3 ships. I was a little excited about the SOV change but then they nerfed anoms =( It has been a lame few years...
Dimitri Fukoyama	Posted - 2011.06.17 02:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Welcome back Vet. New EVE Online development is dead. New development will be nearly all focused on the Twilight MMO, with its beta called "Incarna" being released very shortly. CCP has moved the majority of their staff off the EVE project, with only an incredibly small token amount of development resources left for anything that can't crossover to Twilight Online. If one thing ever came out of twilight that is good, is that its going to make all people like you who dont know what kind of company white wolf is and think vampires are for "*gots", stay the ** away from WOD. <3
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2011.06.17 02:42:00 - [15] Putting all my playtime together in all these years (on and off since forever) I didn't think I'd qualify as a bitter returning vet. But reading (and agreeing) with the OP makes me think I may actually qualify after all.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.17 03:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Dimitri Fukoyama If one thing ever came out of twilight that is good, is that its going to make all people like you who dont know what kind of company white wolf is and think vampires are for "*gots", stay the ** away from WOD. <3 White Wolf has incredibly bad writing and game design. The first game series of WoD was just tripe, it was poorly designed and executed, and books were constantly tacked on that just added tired vampire cliches. Buy another book and you can have vampires that can't see their reflection!. Buy yet another book and you can get vampires that are charismatic! Would you like a werewolf cliche? Buy another book! WoD panders as much to nerds with conspiarcy theories as Twilight panders to teenage girls. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Rixiu The Inuits	Posted - 2011.06.17 03:47:00 - [17] This thread sums incarna up pretty nicely. 5 years, 5 long years and this is what we get? 10 m2 of (minmatar!) space to walk around on and for this we have to pay a decrease in UI functionality (!), performance decrease and even breaking the immersion (how the f*** you manage that by introducing avatars is beyond me). Well played CCP, well played.
captain foivos	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:07:00 - [18] Edited by: captain foivos on 17/06/2011 04:07:13 Originally by: Rixiu This thread sums Incarna up pretty nicely. WTB EVE circa June 2008 -- Need a break from EVE?
Rikter Akiga	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Tobiaz Good Stuff this. this. THIS. a hundred times THIS.
Ioci Gallente Space Mermaids	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:23:00 - [20] From one Vet to another, you know better. Incarna or no Incarna EVE is stale. 'Blow stuff up' with a calculator isn't doing it after 8 years. EVE II is the EVE Future.
Maul555 Amarr Reliables Inc BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Rixiu This thread sums incarna up pretty nicely. 5 years, 5 long years and this is what we get? 10 m2 of (minmatar!) space to walk around on and for this we have to pay a decrease in UI functionality (!), performance decrease and even breaking the immersion (how the f* you manage that by introducing avatars is beyond me). Well played CCP, well played. Pretty much this. I have been looking forward to incarna for a long time and plan to spend a lot of time out of the pod once the full features hit. But CCP has only themselves to blame when this blows up in their face. How many of these threads have they ignored? They had the right idea in the 2008/9? demo. Is it really so hard to keep that exit to station button? Is it really necessary to throw away the primary out of space environment of the last 8 years? Is it really necessary to force me out of the pod for every little thing? I am not going to unsubscribe because of this f*-up. But I know the kind of rage that is about to come down the pipe, and its sad because it really doesn't have to go down like this. The EVE Personality Test
Prey Forme	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:41:00 - [22] I would have much preferred the option to paint and graffiti my space ship than a pointless captains quarters. What are the odds that 99% of players will have this option turned off for the length of their subscriptions?
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Benri Konpaku on 17/06/2011 04:45:28 Originally by: Prey Forme I would have much preferred the option to paint and graffiti my space ship than a pointless captains quarters. What are the odds that 99% of players will have this option turned off for the length of their subscriptions? And this is why they don't want to give you the option to stay in your ship. If you did the Aurum stuff would be less appealing and Nvidia wouldn't be able to screw up other brands of graphics cards. But I've repeated this too many times today, so I'll just stop for now. Corp logo on ships > CQ
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.17 04:46:00 - [24] +1 Seems the outcry at the end of last summer didn't last very long. As CCP said then they have already fixed development for the next 12 months and we might see them going back to the old core gameplay after that, so we'll see a change in their course after 18 months, they got till the end of this year. If nothing changes by then I'm out. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Prey Forme	Posted - 2011.06.17 05:00:00 - [25] I can't believe we are going to have to endure another day of downtime, and weeks of emergency fixes for this rubbish.
Kharmino	Posted - 2011.06.17 05:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Tobiaz (...OP...) +1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 +1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 +1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
Sarina Berghil Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.06.17 05:20:00 - [27] I can't really disagree much, your points are very valid. For Incarna lets hope the areas get worked on as much as CCP promises so we get something with real functionality. With CCPs iteration history in mind I'm not exactly optimistic in this regard. Better tutorials is something I think is very important and worthwhile, old players may not see an immediate effect, but its essential for the continued well-being of an old game like this. Other than that yes it looks like EvE development is at a stand still and all visions gone stale. My biggest disappointment is all the untapped potential. CCP have and had a lot of excellent ideas, they just never manage to follow through on them. More game designers less Bizdevs please.
Terrante	Posted - 2011.06.17 05:30:00 - [28] +1 My sentiments exactly!
Gibbo5771	Posted - 2011.06.17 07:03:00 - [29] jesus, everything in the op.....just spoke to me and every word of it was 100% accurate. This isent a whine thread, its a factual thread. Eve isent eve anymore, anyone who says other wise is a troll or been playing for less than a year
Iggy Stooge	Posted - 2011.06.17 07:13:00 - [30] Enjoy the things in Eve you like, ignore the things you don't. If you CHOOSE to be bitter, then the only person who will be affected by that, is you.
George Wilkes Hill	Posted - 2011.06.17 07:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Gibbo5771 jesus, everything in the op.....just spoke to me and every word of it was 100% accurate. This isent a whine thread, its a factual thread. Eve isent eve anymore, anyone who says other wise is a troll or been playing for less than a year
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.17 07:19:00 - [32] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 17/06/2011 07:19:41 Originally by: George Wilkes Hill Originally by: Gibbo5771 jesus, everything in the op.....just spoke to me and every word of it was 100% accurate. This isent a whine thread, its a factual thread. Eve isent eve anymore, anyone who says other wise is a troll or been playing for less than a year Eve is still Eve... back in 2006 I press F1-3 and my Rifter's autocannons started shooting. 2011, I hit F1-3 and my Rifter's autocannons start shooting. Gibbo has failed to adapt in Eve and by extension at life *Edit: Thanks to the nifty group weapons button I just hit F1 now, Hooray! \/
Cyriel Longinus Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2011.06.17 08:11:00 - [33] I know a guy who created a character shortly after EVE started but the most active time he has spent in EVE is about three years. Should he be considered a vet because he created a character in 2003? He has the common sense not to preface himself as such or claim to be knowledgeable of things he never really cared about. It almost seems like you know what you are talking about. However when you make statement like "An improved tutorial, cute but irrelevant for everyone who played longer then a week. Next!" then your point of view comes across as a limited and straight up biased. It as though you didn't even witness or care to consider how small efforts such as that benefited the game as a whole. It didn't take much effort to find that you have been dropping in & out of the game just like your alt.
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.17 08:22:00 - [34] +1 from another bitter vet _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) Aelius 2011 Candidacy Guide Lines
knobber Jobbler Holding Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.17 08:29:00 - [35] ÇÇP are different now; they've lost all the understanding of what made EVE great. All we see now is knee jerk reactions from high up producers who probably couldn't name more than 2 EVE ships or discuss basic mechanics, making core game play changes without any thought to the fall out. Reducing null sec player income because to much ISK in the game is a classic example. To much ISK is in EVE because CCP allowed thousands of people to bot and RMT for years and still let them do it. Tackle that! What they should tackle is core problems of EVE, not the symptoms.
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2011.06.17 08:32:00 - [36] I am willing to stay around till they finish their Incarna and Dust work. Their current development plan stands as it is now and we cannot change it. We can however change their future plans with our opinion. If they don't hold their promise to go back to spaceships after Lolcarna and Dust are out, then many people will be likely out as well. CCP would be wise to remember that an old loyal player is worth more (money wise) than a new player because he tends to pay for multiple accounts and has been with the game for a long while, thus having the patience and long- term plans to stay in the game for years and paying money to CCP. A new player is a risky invstment as he can get bored quickly or realize that Eve isnt suited for him. Most new players do, in fact, they are gone after the trial period. A good balance is needed by maintaining the core of old and loyal players and attracting new ones. Currently the focus is too much on attracting new players and broadening the target group but this is very short- sided. Lose the core players and Eve is done for. CCP is approaching this dangerous situation faster and faster in my opinion.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.17 08:56:00 - [37] I had to reload halflife 2 to my comp yesterday to crowbar some steam out. Today I feel better already but few more days of classic 1st person splattering wont do any harm .) Yes and CCP has lost the ball. ...and the ball in this sentence is the sandbox what we at least used to use daily to perform tasks what we did. Now they just build houses around the sandbox, plant some flowers here and there and sometimes throw couple wooden cones to the sandbox to replace the toys what are beyond any hope. Sandbox needs more tools, toys, sand and love! ...and back to crowbar business we go... :) ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Indika Truan	Posted - 2011.06.17 10:21:00 - [38] I think the OP makes some pretty strong points. I am a role-player and like it when games add elements that improve immersion. However, in making immersion a focus of this expansion, I think CCP is showing a little naivete about what actually makes a game more immersive (or maybe CCP is just being shrewd, using a long-promised EVE expansion to subsidize WoD development). In EVE, that's the sandbox and the player-driven economy. It's the fact that the setting is that of contemporary/futuristic dystopia in which even the words and actions of a gamer totally non-interested in role-playing still makes a lot of sense in the context of the universe. It's the breadth of the available/viable professional options. It's in the myriad of little details and game mechanics that each contribute to the game's verisimilitude. Being able to exit your pod and walk around a room does add a nice additional dimension to the universe, but even putting aside the various immersion-breaking flaws of the current implementation -- forced decanting from pod whenever you dock, decanting on a balcony in full view of anybody with a pair of binoculars, Amarr/Caldari/Gallente stations with Minmatar design and decor -- CQ just doesn't add that much to the game. If you could actually do something cool outside your pod that you couldn't reasonably do inside of it, the resources put into Incarna might make sense ... but this isn't the case and won't be for the foreseeable future. With Incarna, EVE has the appearance of becoming more WoW-like, but these changes/"improvements" are really superficial. I haven't yet had an opportunity to play through the tutorials (I'm recently returned to the game and can't access Sisi until the next mirror) but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like they do much to address what I perceive as EVE's primary flaws/qualities that hurt player retention. I think the following changes would make the game more WoW-like, but in a good way: Improving the UI, in both form and function. What's the one aspect of the game that shows up in nearly every screenshot and gameplay video? The UI. Make it look good and make it heavily customizable if not fully modifiable. I guess they are trying to do this in a modest way the CarbonUI, but so far it looks exactly the same. Bog-standard features like font/UI scaling and resolution independence are "longer term goals." How far along the UI overhaul could we be if an entire expansion hadn't been devoted to vanity features? Adding more group PvE content, especially for low/mid SP characters, and providing a clearer path to said content in tutorials/starter missions. Rabble handholding rabble carebears rabble rabble. Yeah, but EVE is a complex game, I don't see any harm in helping new players find their way. Not every player has to be a boot-strapping, forum-trawling, guide-reading, tough guy overachiever. The What to Do Flowchart can be as overwhelming as it is helpful, and can actually lead newbies astray, as they may pursue paths that aren't really practical or fun in the shorter term. A move away from mission running as the default path for carebears and towards something more like incursions would improve the likelihood of newbies getting hooked into the community. Revisiting Factional Warfare and, again, providing a clearer path to this aspect of the game for newbies. I'm too much of a carebear to offer much detail here and I'm running out of room anyway. Getting randomly griefed is unpleasant and at first glance it may seem that vet players have an insurmountable advantage. It'd probably be beneficial to somehow introduce newbies to PvP in a somewhat more controlled fashion, along giving candid, accurate info on what a low-skilled player can hope to accomplish and contribute in PvP, what their limitations will be, and what they can work towards in the future.
Khaine Beralt SOL Group Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.17 10:55:00 - [39] Christ alive get over yourselves
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:00:00 - [40] Bittervets unite. You have my sword. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:10:00 - [41] Bittervet here, but -1 to the OP. There is already too much whining here, some of the whinings might seem to be deserved, but most of the whine here is just uninformed rants of people unable to accept change. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
My Postman	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:12:00 - [42] While running L4¦s at home on a very fast machine, sometimes while working i mine a bit to keep the lines running, as the notebook i¦m using for this has a bit of module lagging, and i would¦nt risk a L4 on it (some DC¦s as well sometimes). Mining for 2 hours in a skilled out hulk will bring me at least 10 - 12 times in my CQ, for unloading my ship. I don¦t know how much it will pi** me off, i just thought of jetcan mining again like in my first days. This has got nothing to do with immersion, this is plain stupid. Btw +1 for the OP.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:19:00 - [43] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Bittervet here, but -1 to the OP. There is already too much whining here, some of the whinings might seem to be deserved, but most of the whine here is just uninformed rants of people unable to accept change. While I agree....everything the op said is true. Everything.
Cham Palaung	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:30:00 - [44] Incarna coming June 21th. This is a lie. Incarna is supposed to be an expansion with which we can walk and interact in station with other players. A full station, full of life and social opportunities. What do we have instead ? one useless room (Minmatar model only) with nothing new in term of gameplay. I don't criticize the way they introduce Incarna by small pieces in the game, i criticize the fact that they handle us like if we are idiots.
Dratic Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns	Posted - 2011.06.17 11:50:00 - [45] Originally by: Cham Palaung Incarna coming June 21th. This is a lie. Incarna is supposed to be an expansion with which we can walk and interact in station with other players. A full station, full of life and social opportunities. What do we have instead ? one useless room (Minmatar model only) with nothing new in term of gameplay. I don't criticize the way they introduce Incarna by small pieces in the game, i criticize the fact that they handle us like if we are idiots. Unfortunately we must be idiots to continue playing this game, the fact is unless you and significant numbers quit its all hot air. It is a shame as they could have had their incarna and other things they have planned, if only they just put more thought into why people actually give their money and accomodate their design better. The attitude that things must be manditory in order for people to use them is the worst thing in my opinion a complete lack of understanding of their player base and chasing an imaginary market.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.06.17 13:47:00 - [46] I just reactivated after a couple of years off and it does look all a bit mental, like -----------------------------------------------
Kosoku	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:18:00 - [47] You know, they could have redesigned Dominix or something. Why Maller?
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.17 14:44:00 - [48] Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything said in the OP. Well, except this: Console shooters are are highly FOTM You don't seem to be into consoles, and really, neither am I, but that was just a stupid thing to say.
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:05:00 - [49] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Bittervet here, but -1 to the OP. There is already too much whining here, some of the whinings might seem to be deserved, but most of the whine here is just uninformed rants of people unable to accept change. While I agree....everything the op said is true. Everything. This
Iosue Black Sky Hipsters	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:08:00 - [50] Originally by: Tobiaz CCP Zyfandel shouldn't even be THINKING about selling ships for RL money. He seems like a nice guy on EVE-TV, but he should be punished by reading every threadnought on the forums about RMT-concerns.. This Originally by: Tobiaz And all the hyping of Incarna and all the wonderful Aurum-opportunities is making me sick. And especially this... We've had enough of the damned AUR being shoved down our throats. Give it a rest already.
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Iggy Stooge Enjoy the things in Eve you like, ignore the things you don't. If you CHOOSE to be bitter, then the only person who will be affected by that, is you. I think most people here will agree with you, but it's difficult to ignore certain features (like CQ) when you don't have the option to skip it and your FPS goes to hell because of it.
Devil's Call Caldari Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:21:00 - [52] Although I do agree with allot of your points, I don't look upon them as badly as you seem to do. While this incarna expansion adds 'useless' (To you) features to the game doesn't mean that it REMOVES our beloved aspects of eve FROM the game, now does it? If you state otherwise, then I have no simpathy with you whatsoever. For some reason I get the impression that certain people want to keep eve as harsh to the general public as possible... I personally believe that by adding this whole walking in station thing the game will attract allot of new people, and I fail to see the bad thing there. More people = more stuff to blow up, amirite? I think it will also attract more female players, which is also not a bad thing. About the new currency... it would be pretty lame to pay say 200 milion for a new dress, now wouldn't it. Now go think about that, and try to be more positive... -.-'? ----------------------------------------------- ôAll fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns.ö
Ricardo Gonzalo Montalban	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:22:00 - [53] OP: you my friend are my new hero, you actually made me laugh out loud here at work and brightened my day.
Tosser Galore	Posted - 2011.06.17 15:26:00 - [54] +1 Calling a fat pig, fat. How the hell do CCP expect to retain a fps (FOTM) crowd. Very tough market to being with and, I think that the result will be lots of eve-players trying out Dust, dual boxing. But NEW players? Sure some maybe. But it will all depend on the finished product. Sure if it ends up godly, but still it have to compete with lots of well established titles and their follow ups. Dust is sucking resources from eve, and is suppose to be a console market cash cow. Good luck with that.
Elienore	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Tosser Galore +1 Calling a fat pig, fat. How the hell do CCP expect to retain a fps (FOTM) crowd. Very tough market to being with and, I think that the result will be lots of eve-players trying out Dust, dual boxing. But NEW players? Sure some maybe. But it will all depend on the finished product. Sure if it ends up godly, but still it have to compete with lots of well established titles and their follow ups. Dust is sucking resources from eve, and is suppose to be a console market cash cow. Good luck with that. Because Dust514 sounds like its got more meaning than the other shooters? I do like the idea of actual, y'know, change and all. Also, how in God's name can a new and better tutorial be a bad thing? Do you even remember the old tutorial? The current tutorial is by far more thorough and explains things much better. The other points, well, I've seen worse arguments, I'll give you that much.
Masjheira Minmatar Cursed Inc. Not Found.	Posted - 2011.06.17 16:26:00 - [56] +1 CCP sucks, that's now official, patch after patch it became obvious they are trying to facilitate the game and make it noob, idiot-friendly. Eve is dead, welcome Barbie & Ken Online, where you can dress up your character and buy ships for $$ CCp, if your **ty island wasnt that far away from my home, I'd come to yell something you need to hear in your studio. **ing stop trying to focus a larger public, you are already losing the one that made your game be what it is now. You are screwing everything up because of your stupidity, and blindness. That's so so sad, I've been playing Eve for 5 years, I trully advertised Eve everywhere around me for a few years and for a few months now when someone wants to know details about eve, my only answer is "nevermind, Eve is dying because CCP are a bunch of stupid, fat beered drunk islandish Blizzard-World of warcraft-wannabes. Eve is dead, welcome to Twilight Online, World of Barbie, Hello Ken Online, and if I had to be very much optimistic, I'd say: Supercap Online and Superbots online too, assuming there is still a bit of gameplay left in Eve. And yeah, OF COURSE I'm exaggerating a bit. i'm not sayign the game is actually dead. i'm saying that for a few months now, the dev studio, CCP, is clearly focusing on what Eve is NOT. Thus, what we all loved about Eve is just dying. Screw you CCP, the man who has lead design deserves exile on an island full of barbies and kens for his whole life.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.18 13:57:00 - [57] I'm not alone! :D I just want to stress my most important concern: CCP seems to have changed in a way that clashes with its community. The Incarna-blemish will pass, but not if CCP continues on this path of updates focused on micro-transactions and eye-candy instead of content. Not if fixes and balancing will just remain 'on the top of the list' instead of 'we working on it, it will be in the next patch'. Not if protecting 'high standards' comes at the cost of community initiatives and effort to improve our gameplay. And not if money and effort is put into a likely doomed attempt to branch out to consoles. CCP starts to reek like a typical, arrogant 'triple-A' game-developer where the marketing department swings the scepter. And EVE's community clearly does NOT like it. The forums have always been a harsh place, but in the many years of EVE I've witnessed, I don't think there's ever seen this much anti-CCP sentiments BEFORE an actual patch. I seriously suspect some of the more important devs to hardly play the game at all these days. A lot of latest issues display a total lack of being in touch with the community. The CSM is supposed to help with that, but were they ever even consulted beforehand by CCP Atlas for instance on this licensing nonsense? And a last concern about Dust: It will take an extraordinary quality shooter to surpass FOTM. How many shooters have managed to maintain a steady player base longer then two years? How many of those are on consoles? How many games can survive a 'mass-extinction' like when the PS4 comes in a few years? Does anyone really trust CCP, especially with the new attitude, to come up with something that's so extraordinary that EVE won't need an Dust-appendectomy in a few years? I don't, especially not if updates like Incarna signal a new CCP. Originally by: Elienore Also, how in God's name can a new and better tutorial be a bad thing? Do you even remember the old tutorial? The current tutorial is by far more thorough and explains things much better. The other points, well, I've seen worse arguments, I'll give you that much. I remember the first tutorial that EVE had. I even still have a Tutorial Attack Drone, possibly the only one left in the game. When I started playing again since last month, I used the buddy-program to start a new char and do all tutorials: most fun I've had in EVE since a long time... for three days. It will help a bit with newbie retention, but how is improving those mere three days going to matter much?
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.06.18 14:07:00 - [58] Hardin ! is that you in disguise but yes ..yet another + 1 from yet another bitter vet . destroy everything you touch
Squidely	Posted - 2011.06.18 14:26:00 - [59] ...dining on ashes and whipping dead horses gentlemen?
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.06.18 14:36:00 - [60] I'm not really a long time vet, although I mostly only log on for skills these days, partly due to real life and partly because CCP has done so much to alienate me with its loong list of insane ideas and behaviour that the game just isn't what it used to be to me. The saddest thing about the current CCP is that they have missed out a huge opportunity with Incarna and Dust to make use of the incredibly rich backstory that the chronicles had built up over the years. Instead of yet another mindless FPS with blatant money grabbing overtones that was only written for consoles because CCP knew that if it was on the PC that their main customers would be current Eve players they could have made an RPG using elements of the backstory. And the OP is spot on with his view of CCP's inability to communicate properly and thereby alienate their customers. However, the main feeling I have about CCP these days is that they won't be solvent for very much longer and I do get a bit of satisfaction imagining CCP marketing drones flipping burgers. I got 99 dollah but the game ain't fun
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.18 14:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Squidely ...dining on ashes and whipping dead horses gentlemen? That's pretty much what makes protesting effective, isn't it? The best way to change someones mind is not actually trying to change someone's mind using arguments, but just keep talking about it, over and over again. It's how the media influences politics for example.
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The 8th Order	Posted - 2011.06.18 15:13:00 - [62] Very nice synopsis of the situation at hand OP. Lets keep this on top for great justice. I would encourage everyone here to have open dialogue with their corp members, with people in local, with their friends and enemies. Almost everyone I talk to has no idea whats coming down the pipe and when I let them know largely they are upset with the direction of things. People need to be made aware and people need to reject this empty content.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.18 15:22:00 - [63] Much crying old expert is right. +1
Terrante	Posted - 2011.06.18 15:23:00 - [64] Originally by: Tobiaz Edited by: Tobiaz on 18/06/2011 14:27:13 OP... The second time you are spot-on +++
Velicitia Open Designs	Posted - 2011.06.18 16:07:00 - [65] Edited by: Velicitia on 18/06/2011 16:08:59 Originally by: Iosue Originally by: Tobiaz CCP Zyfandel shouldn't even be THINKING about selling ships for RL money. He seems like a nice guy on EVE-TV, but he should be punished by reading every threadnought on the forums about RMT-concerns.. This Originally by: Tobiaz And all the hyping of Incarna and all the wonderful Aurum-opportunities is making me sick. And especially this... We've had enough of the damned AUR being shoved down our throats. Give it a rest already. This. CCP -- we don't mind getting shinies -- see this as an example of the AWESOME shinies you used to give us. We just absolutely hate the fact that these new shinies are 'selling out' what we love about eve... Edit -- as a sidenote, why aren't the new trailers all from the ingame engine??? That is what dragged me fully into the game - your engine was badass enough to RECORD THE GAME TRAILERS... rather than pre-rendered trash. I'm not nearly as "vet" or as "bitter" as you guys ... only from '07 myself... have missed maybe 12-18 months total of game/subscription time (completely RL's fault). I MISS those days -- not knowing a damn thing, and still truly believing in the "you can do whatever the hell you want" aspect of the sandbox. Now, that seems diminished in favour of making things "easy" or "wow-like"... Big, so CCP gets it: IF WE WANTED WOW, WE'D BE PLAYING THAT ****ING GAME
flummox	Posted - 2011.06.18 18:11:00 - [66] Originally by: Iggy Stooge Enjoy the things in Eve you like, ignore the things you don't. If you CHOOSE to be bitter, then the only person who will be affected by that, is you. shut up "confuscious"... the OP's point is that a lot of the changes made to the game are completely changing EVE, the playerbase, and EVE's future. furthermore, your "words of wisdom" make no sense. "If you CHOOSE to be bitter, then the only person who will be affected by that is you" would be the proper way to arrange the sentence. your additional comma at the end makes the sentence have no structure and in fact takes away from the intended meaning of it. +1 to the original post. as a fellow Veteran (not bitter), i too have seen the changes over the last 8 years and they all haven't been good. the first mistake was CONCORD. now, i'm NOT saying that having a safety device for new players (read: morons) is bad. what i AM saying is that they put a feature into the game that went against their original design. showing that they were willing to cater to a certain playerbase. a very bad path for a company to head down within the first few months of a release. WiS is not a feature i care for. and it also sets the stage for the future and i could care less for any kind of station activity besides those that pertain to my ship. CCP is operating less and less like a company that cares about their products and more and more like a greedy, money-grubbing corporation. CCP has a choice to make, and i stil feel that it is early enough where they have not gone too far down one path. CCP needs to decide if they wish to make a great game, or make a lot (an exceeding amount) of money. You cannot do both, CCP. eventually, a not-so-good game will run out of players/investors. but an exceedinly great game will paint your name in the stars forever! i remember when EVE used to be the talk of the town in regards to greatness of gameplay, graphics, playerbase, etc. now all the news seems like the same crap that every other game/developer is getting. which means EVE is no longer standing out as different. you have a choice still, CCP: money or greatness. read some old proverbs and mtyhology before deciding. one path with flare hot and burn quickly. the other will last an eternity. EABOD
Nak hak	Posted - 2011.06.18 19:10:00 - [67] Thanks for you options. +1 3 days until summer. Something to look forward to.
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2011.06.18 19:39:00 - [68] Why do I miss Apocrypha more and more as time passes instead of looking forward to the new stuff?
gdjghjhgjfh Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.06.18 20:00:00 - [69] "The long overdue FIX to Gurista Jamming" THIS, the rest...dont really care about.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.07 09:07:00 - [70] Originally by: jason hill Hardin ! is that you in disguise No ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services http://internetspacewars.blogspot.com/
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.07 09:54:00 - [71] Good posts OP. Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Cebraio	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:28:00 - [72] @OP: Good posts BUT DIDN'T YOU QUIT? So what made you come back? Why do you feel the need to post all this even after you came back? I don't see the point of coming back and opening just another thread about the stuff we all know.
Shpenat	Posted - 2011.07.07 12:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Cebraio @OP: Good posts BUT DIDN'T YOU QUIT? So what made you come back? Why do you feel the need to post all this even after you came back? I don't see the point of coming back and opening just another thread about the stuff we all know. The original post is nearly a month old. It was just brought back from grave. Move along nothing to see here.
Cebraio	Posted - 2011.07.07 12:59:00 - [74] Originally by: Shpenat Originally by: Cebraio @OP: Good posts BUT DIDN'T YOU QUIT? So what made you come back? Why do you feel the need to post all this even after you came back? I don't see the point of coming back and opening just another thread about the stuff we all know. The original post is nearly a month old. It was just brought back from grave. Move along nothing to see here. Yes, that explains it. Thanks for clearing this up! Damn dual necromancy! Reviving a dead thread from a dead character.
Cassandra Bloodwing Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.07 13:10:00 - [75] Edited by: Cassandra Bloodwing on 07/07/2011 13:09:49 CCP will be a different Eve?
Darq Vixen	Posted - 2011.07.07 14:02:00 - [76] +1 from another bitter vet (no, this is not my main, my main account expired on the 3rd of July already ...) Cheers, Darq

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I got 99 dollah but the game ain't fun

IF WE WANTED WOW, WE'D BE PLAYING THAT ****ING GAME