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Does the Number Of Anti-Incarna Players Have Any Effect On CCP?

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Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [61] when talking about majority vs minority wishes of the players... You can never please everyone all the time... But you can some of the time... If Incarna was accessed via a button on the station neocom... like it was in the fanfest demo's... then those that wanted it could opt to use it, when ever they wanted... those that didn't want it could opt no to use it... those that care about immersion wouldn't be troubled by having their char decant every time they undocked... the designers would be free to pick and choose what functionality they wanted for incarna rather than being forced to have the entire in space UI IN ADDITION to the new 3d UI to enable our CQ's to function a bit like the hanger but still with reduced functionality and higher load due to running two UI's at the same time... those Who love RP and Immersion would benefit because the design could truly reflect the 'disconnected-ness' of leaving the pod, and really make you feel the pod pilots discomfort by making every step away from the pod one that would have to be taken back to return to it.... This was one shining golden opportunity to make everyone (ignoring trolls and those who want all devs to spend all their time working on reducing lag) happy. They blew it. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Jashmyne You do realise that you won' be able to disable CQ right ? You might at the start but that option will be removed later. When they disable the ability to disable the CQ, I will stop playing eve. Simple enough, yes? -
Messy Beaver	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Kara Audanie Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Kara Audanie Keep on crying, who know, it might have an impact. When would you EVER learn? CCP wouldn't be publishing a game that ISN'T OPTIMIZED! Here this, how about you shut up and try it out before QQ all over about it before it even begin. It is like you sort of people who are what holding CCP back for many years... What in the world are you talking about, and in what language? I asked two questions. Do you need a definition of the word 'question'? Your questions are rather more of one sided opinion therefore you are complaining instead of asking two sides of opinion ALSO you have created this thread for this one sided opinion as well. They'll never go hungry if people like you keep feeding them
Croier	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You've got it a little mixed up. 1) - They ARE interested in keeping the existing players happy but the majority of the existing players aren't complaining about Incarna, which leads me to point 2; 2) - The people who aren't vocally anti-Incarna aren't necessarily pushing for it either. Want to know why? We just don't care THAT much either way. Take me for example. I think Incarna will be a pretty cool addition. I'll walk around a station for 5 minutes, I'll go ''heh, there's Allant!'' then i'll undock and pew pew in Spaceships like I always have done. It doesn't change anything about the game we all know and love, it just adds something extra for those people who want it. (For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack) Want something different to Incarna? Be patient, your time will come. ^^^this^^^ Case closed!!
Dimitri Fukoyama	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:04:00 - [65] Edited by: Dimitri Fukoyama on 21/06/2011 13:06:28 Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! I was all for incarna early on, as i felt it would draw new blood to eve who could then check out a game that has more meat on the bones than games like Rift and warhammer online etc... So the lackluster in terms of new gameplay was a tradeoff to get some new people to check out eve, which was okay with me. I cant shake this feeling though that Dust is the real expansion and that CCP is asking us to buy this ~400$ expansion (buy a PS3 + a game) or forget about playing it.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:04:00 - [66] Originally by: Zora'e p.s. I cancelled 3 accounts because I can't see paying you any more money to turn a game I love into Barbie Dolls in space. I say, good riddance for that. I am certain most people don't give a toss if some delusional whiner leaves the game. Hyperbole and exaggeration is usually the only way trolls and the vocal minority can communicate with the outside world, we neither need or want your kind in this, otherwise good, community. Quote: No, you can't have my stuff... I think my corp has salvaged what was useful from your ships anyway, when we blasted you into pieces the last time. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Allant Doran For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack Nope.
gdjghjhgjfh Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 - [68] Originally by: Jaak 242 Thst's the second question. Is it the minority or the majority? its irrelevant I mine/build/fight/cloak. i usually mine to get minerals to build so i have stuff to fight with if not i cloak
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Mirabi Tiane Originally by: Allant Doran For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack Nope. Agreed, as an RP'er this hurts my immersion. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Azahni Vah'nos Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:08:00 - [70] So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here.

Liva Daril Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Ineka Open your little minds, all the opportunities of improvement and interaction from this feature to Dust514, new features to Eve space ships etc. Hmm, you seem to be a wee youngling to CCP¦s OZOM features. Let me educate you a bit, though even you should¦ve started smelling the sh!t when the oh so incredible Captain¦s quarters are slashed to just ONE on launch of this EXITING new vision for EVE. CCP always promises new features then forgets "iterating" on them. Incarna was promised for years! 3 years ago we were shown the nice (old)hangar view, then Torfi clicked a nice button, had to wait 15 secs for the session change(hilarious), then clicked the button again to spawn in his avatar in the actual *POD-effin-room. Now we have this idiotic balcony and no pod room, no proper hangar anymore, no other racial artwork. Just a couch, a mirror and the only useful thing* is the new agent finder. Which was done as an afterthought by Team BFF. Welcome to CCP. Enjoy your Fanboi ardor while it lasts.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [72] Edited by: Soden Rah on 21/06/2011 13:15:28 Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here. the community at large has a tendency not to know what's going on till the patch hits TQ... its the minority of the player base that actually reads the devblogs/forums. Also their is a 7 page petition going strong on keeping the hanger view and entering CQ after docking... So this is an issue that does have some traction. EDIT: also I DO want incarna... I just want to keep the hanger view as well. Plus feature for immersion should not break immersion. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Zora'e p.s. I cancelled 3 accounts because I can't see paying you any more money to turn a game I love into Barbie Dolls in space. I say, good riddance for that. I am certain most people don't give a toss if some delusional whiner leaves the game. Hyperbole and exaggeration is usually the only way trolls and the vocal minority can communicate with the outside world, we neither need or want your kind in this, otherwise good, community. Quote: No, you can't have my stuff... I think my corp has salvaged what was useful from your ships anyway, when we blasted you into pieces the last time. Ironic considering you haven't 'blasted' me into pieces before. Perhaps you are delusional? Either way, nice troll. I'll give you +1 Internets for the attempt, even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. -
Syphon Lodian Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:17:00 - [74] Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 21/06/2011 13:18:49 I'm all for Incarna, I'm just a bit wary of some of the angles of approach. We haven't seen the other race CQ's yet, so it could change, but the level of immersion seems to be a bit weak, and it doesn't look like much care was given for establishing that immersion with CQ's. For instance, we have CQs available to us at every station in the entire universe and they are all the same, so far, Minmatar.. but that will change of course. Also, it should give you the option to disembark. Once you click disembark, you go through a short animated sequence where your pod is pulled in to a docking bay, you hear some whizz, bangs, pops and sounds of showering and steam, and the door opens up and you step out. Instead, you're pristine and ready to go, in the same CQ as everyone else, every single time. Disembarking in a station should be an interesting, refreshing experience. ------------------------------------------------- Go pod yourself.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:18:00 - [75] Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here. It's not about simple love vs hate. There's a whole spectrum of feelings towards Incarna. I don't actually hate Incarna, for example. I think it's a tremendous waste of resources, I think it's completely unjustified, I think it's completely redundant as far as actual function goes, and I think its main motivating feature from the "head management" side is that it makes money. But I don't hate Incarna because there's nothing to hate. What am I supposed to get angry at? Pointless aesthetics that I never cared about and which don't really influence me? You can't hate something which you don't give a **** about. My guess is simply that most people don't care about Incarna, or those who do have yet to try it. It's a novel experience for the first 10 minutes, but after that, there's nothing there. This may be an expansion, but it's not a gameplay expansion. There are no gameplay additions in Incarna. Walking around alone in an instanced box is not gameplay. I don't care how pretty you make the box.
cBOLTSON Star Frontiers Ignore This.	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [76] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! For me personally I am not overly anticipating incarna. I am looking forwards to seeing my ship up close. I also feel like yes incarna could lead to great things (Im thinking boarding ships/outposts). But untill the full functionality of incarna starts to be seen a lot of people are pretty indiffrent about incarna. So best thing to do is get incarna out, sort it out, build ONTOP of incarna and make it a REAL part of the game and not just some room. Also dont forget about the spaceships part, make it more fun plz
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [77] Originally by: Zora'e even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. Considering I'm a woman your pathetic attempt at taking a potshot fail miserably. Nice try though. In any case, well done for dodging my first paragraph. Goes to show that when all your hyperbole and exaggeration arguments wear out the only thing you can do is change the subject and become a douche. So the one being a troll in this case is you. Not very surprising. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Fearsome Engine	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:21:00 - [78] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You are assuming that the few vocal whining idiots on the forum are somehow representative of the majority of the player base. If I recall correctly, the number of players who post on the forums is around the 5-7% mark, of which probably 10-20% are unhappy with the idea of Incarna. Now I am aware that the 10-20% figure is only an extremely rough estimate based on the number of threads made that are against Incarna, and the subsequent unique players who posted in agreement in those threads, but the 5-7% figure was from CCP, so I feel comfortable in saying that most people do not share such a negative view. TL;DR There are a few highly vocal dissenters who are, realistically speaking, vastly out numbered by those who are either neutral toward, or in support of Incarna.
Ezzr Goode Drugs 'R' Us	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:21:00 - [79] I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:25:00 - [80] I'm an example of a dissenter who actually supports Incarna.

Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:26:00 - [81] Originally by: Croier Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You've got it a little mixed up. 1) - They ARE interested in keeping the existing players happy but the majority of the existing players aren't complaining about Incarna, which leads me to point 2; 2) - The people who aren't vocally anti-Incarna aren't necessarily pushing for it either. Want to know why? We just don't care THAT much either way. Take me for example. I think Incarna will be a pretty cool addition. I'll walk around a station for 5 minutes, I'll go ''heh, there's Allant!'' then i'll undock and pew pew in Spaceships like I always have done. It doesn't change anything about the game we all know and love, it just adds something extra for those people who want it. (For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack) Want something different to Incarna? Be patient, your time will come. ^^^this^^^ Case closed!! Don't be too hasty. Not too long ago CCP was going to change the way people approach Eve Online. They were going to take things to a whole different level. They were going to create a portal into the world of New Eden via a social networking site that would be the gateway to all of the different online and offline elements of Eve Online. CCP talks a lot about adding new dimensions to the game, and I have no doubt that they are sincere in their evangalizing. However their dreams seem to be about twenty times larger than their talent pool. Perhaps their dreams are too big for modern technology...they're ahead of their time. I know individuals like this...they talk all the time about their next big project, and when you check back in with them six months later, they've moved on to something else. I fell for it with Eve Gate. I really believed that it would be everything they touted it to be. Not only did it fail to deliver, but it has not been 'iterated.' It is an out-of-game email client. Period. Perhaps Incarna will change the way we play the game. Perhaps Dust will add a whole new dimension to MMOs. But as they say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Color me 'Cautiously pessimistic.'
impli Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:26:00 - [82] Incarna is a good expansion, because it's the beginning of the end vision, where eve goes. EVE is not just internet space ships it wants to be a FULL science fiction MMPOG. So yes I am for incarna and future expansions like incarna. I am looking forward to meet my "EVE" Friends in Bars and drink quafe. Who don't want to interact in station should move to 0.0 and shoot people in a face.
Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:28:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". Great job listing all the types of people who are against this but you forgot one. The kind that has been waiting for Incarna, seen the video's and can't wait to Walk in Stations, speak to other players face to face and have vast sections of the EVE Universe opened to them. Just to find out that you used the Hype of the name Incarna to release one Minmatar Instanced Room and are calling that Incarna. Most anyone I ask in game wuld prefer inspace features be looked at as you have seen with threads on it piling up. The Ones who do want Incarna tend to agree that this is not much of an Incarna.
Sellendis Caldari The Ares project	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:29:00 - [84] Considering CQ that was on test server. After first few minutes, lets make it half hour tops of walking and looking around CQ i got bored with it. So now every time i docked my char stayed at the entrance, i did all refitting and stuff without walking to the sofa in the room. Lets face it, how many people are gonna walk to the sofa to sit down and do PI, get new mission, or browse the market every time they dock, and then get up walk to the ship on the catwalk and launch. Its gonna be nice a few times, then it just gets boring to do the same thing i can do by not moving at all from the entrance. I appreciate the effort that went into making CQ possible by devs. But not the compromise of losing functions we had by now. Dragging a ship from tab to screen to make it active, double click to open cargo bay, and spinning the bloody thing are just some that come to mind. How many people will get bored with one room and nothing in it (but FPS killer and VGA heater) and turning the whole goddamn thing off? If possible, could CCP track how many people disabled CQ, how many people dont move at all when docked, how many steps they did in CQ. In a month the numbers would show the truth about CQ usage...if CCP would tell us the truth at all :)
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:31:00 - [85] I could understand the point of all this World of EVEcraft **** that's being forced on us if the forums had been full of people begging for: * microtransactions * a new currency to spend/waste their PLEX/RL cash on (see above) * the ability to dance around in a station * hello kitty hats for their avatars (and whatever other **** they come up with) * a new way to look at your ship while it's docked (captains balcony) * a remodelling of a seldom used sub-par cruiser hull (lolmaller) * another 0.0 nerf (JB changes) * new tutorial mission (that no new player does because 99% of them are introduced by RL friends who bankroll them, or they are alts) * turret animations (which you will no doubt have to switch off to control lag in large fleets anyway, like every other effect ) The only worthwhile World of EVEcraft feature is the NPC ECM change, but that only fixes something that was broken by CCP in the first place. If you want to prance round pretending to be someone you're not, why not try Second Life or WoW? If you want a damn fine internet spaceships game... well... invent time travel and set the dial for 2009 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:32:00 - [86] Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You are assuming that the few vocal whining idiots on the forum are somehow representative of the majority of the player base. If I recall correctly, the number of players who post on the forums is around the 5-7% mark, of which probably 10-20% are unhappy with the idea of Incarna. Now I am aware that the 10-20% figure is only an extremely rough estimate based on the number of threads made that are against Incarna, and the subsequent unique players who posted in agreement in those threads, but the 5-7% figure was from CCP, so I feel comfortable in saying that most people do not share such a negative view. TL;DR There are a few highly vocal dissenters who are, realistically speaking, vastly out numbered by those who are either neutral toward, or in support of Incarna. you can't make this statement for exactly the same reason that people claiming a majority hate incarna... you don't have the figures. Also you can't extrapolate from the self selecting few that post on the forums to those that don't. which means the majority of people on the forums could love or hate Incarna, and the majority of the player base could have the opposite opinion. If 10~20% of the forum dwellers do indeed dislike this implementation of incarna, and that percentage is played across the rest of EVE, then you are talking about between 1 in 10 and 1 in 5 players who would be happier with an option to disembark upon docking rather than mandatory CQ... Seeing as that option doesn't hurt those that don't care about it, why not please the 10~20% of people you guess do care? -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:34:00 - [87] CCP has their vision of what EvE will ultimately become. They've tried to convey this countless times. If you don't like it, you should save yourself some money because no amount of whining is going to deflect them at this point from what they see as EvE's direction going forward.
Edward Drumm	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:35:00 - [88] Originally by: Ezzr Goode I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr You do realse that the "classic hanger view" no longer exists? You are forced to load the walking in station content each time you dock, unless you are happy with a static screen stating "loading" (what you get when you disable it currently) Just thought i would pre warn you before you get a nasty shock when you log in.
Malachi256	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:37:00 - [89] IMHO, anyone who is upset about Incarna doesn't see the big picture... or they simply want Eve to remain a niche game. I want Eve to flourish. I think Eve is the best sandbox MMO out there (the only decent one, really, but it's been handled well). It's our "last, best hope for MMOs." So I welcome Incarna. I welcome the Dev's vision of a more fully realized sci-fi MMO universe, with a multitude of people and play styles catered to. I see Eve being an amazing game 10 years from now. I can't say that about any other MMO out there.
Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:37:00 - [90] Ever thought however that those might be future features ? Mean, can we all agree that this leg is gonna be purely for testing to make sure the engine is working properly and tweaking the engine so that it runs smoothly. Wouldn't it make sense then to make sure that all people are indeed using this feature ? After all, the more feedback they get the better the chance of them fixing it(common rule in any game-testing). Maybe a "leave ship" button will appear down the line once they tweaked the engine. Again, you never know but regardless, at the moment it's more important to get Carbon working.



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