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Does the Number Of Anti-Incarna Players Have Any Effect On CCP?

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Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:16:00 - [1] It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity?
baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:18:00 - [2] Why would they be interested in a minority?
Kara Audanie	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:19:00 - [3] Keep on crying, who know, it might have an impact. When would you EVER learn? CCP wouldn't be publishing a game that ISN'T OPTIMIZED! Here this, how about you shut up and try it out before QQ all over about it before it even begin. It is like you sort of people who are what holding CCP back for many years...
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:20:00 - [4] Thst's the second question. Is it the minority or the majority?
Isha Steel	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:20:00 - [5] yadda yadda vocal minority and all that. And i'm a pusher :)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? So your opinion is the only one counting? A lot of people including myself have expressed that they appreciate Incarna. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Kara Audanie Keep on crying, who know, it might have an impact. When would you EVER learn? CCP wouldn't be publishing a game that ISN'T OPTIMIZED! Here this, how about you shut up and try it out before QQ all over about it before it even begin. It is like you sort of people who are what holding CCP back for many years... What in the world are you talking about, and in what language? I asked two questions. Do you need a definition of the word 'question'?
Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:23:00 - [8] Well first rule of any game based forum, only a very small part of the total player base visits the forums. So it's very hard to tell how many are happy and how many are not.
Kara Audanie	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? So your opinion is the only one counting? A lot of people including myself have expressed that they appreciate Incarna. +1 Can't wait to see my Rifter in captain quarter!
Keltas Mortermain	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:24:00 - [10] progress tis a greaqt thing embrace it wis will be epic when its done...... however.... i do belive it should be optional i will be using it but i can see peoples opinions against it i dont agree with them yet its there choice.. when you dock up you get an option CQ or docking bay "last being current enviroment. casue i can imagine CQ slowing down ore drop offs and so on but hell whats 1 min extra VIVA LA CQ!!!!!

Kara Audanie	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Kara Audanie Keep on crying, who know, it might have an impact. When would you EVER learn? CCP wouldn't be publishing a game that ISN'T OPTIMIZED! Here this, how about you shut up and try it out before QQ all over about it before it even begin. It is like you sort of people who are what holding CCP back for many years... What in the world are you talking about, and in what language? I asked two questions. Do you need a definition of the word 'question'? Your questions are rather more of one sided opinion therefore you are complaining instead of asking two sides of opinion ALSO you have created this thread for this one sided opinion as well.
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:26:00 - [12] Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 21/06/2011 11:27:44 personally for me ill play about on cq for about an hour.... then get bored and disable it for better game performance. i want internet spaceships not Sims Online
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:26:00 - [13] Quote: Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? Never played any big MMO game, did you?
Allant Doran Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You've got it a little mixed up. 1) - They ARE interested in keeping the existing players happy but the majority of the existing players aren't complaining about Incarna, which leads me to point 2; 2) - The people who aren't vocally anti-Incarna aren't necessarily pushing for it either. Want to know why? We just don't care THAT much either way. Take me for example. I think Incarna will be a pretty cool addition. I'll walk around a station for 5 minutes, I'll go ''heh, there's Allant!'' then i'll undock and pew pew in Spaceships like I always have done. It doesn't change anything about the game we all know and love, it just adds something extra for those people who want it. (For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack) Want something different to Incarna? Be patient, your time will come.
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:29:00 - [15] Edited by: Jaak 242 on 21/06/2011 11:32:51 i did have a feeling that a lot of players avoid these forums because of the things that go one here. It would seem that an issue like this would bring them out for a few minutes, though. I'm still interested in a method of finding out, even roughly, the percentage of existing players who support Incarna. Does CCP have any information on this? Edited to answer the two posts above: No. I've never played any other on line game. Also, my real problem with Incarna is the timing. I'm one of the 1%ers who would like to see Incursion fixed before Incarna comes out. They could implement the fixes in Incarna before it comes out rather than after.
Rui Morin	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:30:00 - [16] Oh good, yet another thread for the same old *****ing. Can't you just post in one of the eleventy-hundred other threads about this?
Tobias Sjodin Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:30:00 - [17] Lose 1% followers, gain another 8% from adding features that a wider audience are interested in. If crybabies leave the game and people who actually are interested in it join, I'm certain CCP won't be shedding any tears about it. HABIT
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? NOPE! Cause since the start of this game people have asked to get out of their ships. Really, it was only recently that the whiners have come out and *****ed. So like the total whining makes up less than 0.0001% of their concern.
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Rui Morin Oh good, yet another thread for the same old *****ing. Can't you just post in one of the eleventy-hundred other threads about this? Another poster child for the combination of genetic drift and moral decay heard from. Thanks for your input. I assure you that I will give it the consideration it deserves.
Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Jashmyne on 21/06/2011 11:37:21 When it comes to MMO, you can never please everyone. Eve Online is a game filled with various sub-groups already. PVPers, PVEers, Crafters, Traders and at the moment a small group of RPers. Everyone wants CCP to focus on them at the expense of the other groups. So make one group happy makes another group unhappy. Incarna has been in development for quite awhile and is really the first expansion aimed at the current RP group which will no doubt attract other RPers as well once the full expansion is in and functional. So yeah Incarna might annoy some of the other groups but remember that the RPers have waited for this expansion for years. The effect is minimal for the rest of you who have no interest in RP besides the fact that you will be in the CQ when you dock and you will get used to it.

Rui Morin	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Rui Morin Oh good, yet another thread for the same old *****ing. Can't you just post in one of the eleventy-hundred other threads about this? Another poster child for the combination of genetic drift and moral decay heard from. Thanks for your input. I assure you that I will give it the consideration it deserves. Your reply says nothing and you are still not explaining why yet another "Incarna sucks" thread needs to be created?
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:39:00 - [22] Honestly I belive that this patch doesn't really make either party totally happy... Now pilots are able to ~~unload their cargo without leaving their ship or~~ step ~~down from their pods, clean the goo in refreshing shower and walk~~ to ~~their~~->Minmatar's captain quarters. They are also able to ~~sleep in bed,~~ pick new mission ~~and head back to the pod, board the ship~~ and undock. ...but yes - this is only the 1st part of the expansion. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 21/06/2011 11:42:29 Originally by: Jaak 242 Does the Number Of Anti-Incarna Players Have Any Effect On CCP? It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? No one knows how many people want Incarna, how many indifferent players there are and how many actually want it. As long as CCP doesn't allow polls on their fora or makes them themselves there's no way of knowing. That said, if I look at the forums I think there's not a majority that's anti. Most players seem to be disappointed that the CQ doesn't offer a lot and is a bit high on resources and such, but not against the mere idea of being a pilot and walking around. I think that most people actually like to be a person and not just a a ship. Even though many players may think the hours spent on making Incarna would be better used on the spaceship part it still doesn't mean they're against it.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:41:00 - [24] 1. Forum whiners are literally a vocal minority. 2. Even if it was massively unpopular, its beta-testing a fantasy themed MMO. You know how much money a fantasy MM0 (could theoretically) make? 3. EVE players haven't left yet. Tryannis proved a content-less expansion sells. The T20 incident, Moongate, New Forum Hacking, Micro-transactions proved that masssive community uproars meant nothing to the game's subscriber base. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Digital Messiah Oregami Ultd	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:45:00 - [25] Incarna has the potential to unlock many new features into this game. I can already see a huge majority of the Sim's community becoming interested in a dress up live your life in space aspect. Either way this goes, I'm still going to be playing unless they start selling non-vanity or drop the ball completely. Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:46:00 - [26] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 21/06/2011 11:46:30 Originally by: Jashmyne Well first rule of any game based forum, only a very small part of the total player base visits the forums. So it's very hard to tell how many are happy and how many are not. Also know this.As there are only 2 or 3 opinions that one can have on this subject it would be very narrow minded to think it has anything to do with any "minority". Sure only a small percent of players post on the forums but by the percentage posting for good or bad you can pretty much see where the opinion of the entire player base is. Edit: Just because they don't post it doesn't mean they are for it.

CCP Guard	Posted - 2011.06.21 11:57:00 - [27] In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug!

baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:01:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP Guard Group hug! IT'S A TRAP!
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:03:00 - [29] Just to not be misunderstood I think incarna is a great idea and looks very good. I just think there are alot of important things that really need to be fixed like gallente ships and reducing capital ships..game breaking things that are being over looked or pushed off.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:09:00 - [30] I for one am thoroughly looking forward to Incarna, I know Captains Quarters is a big leap in the right direction towards Incarna and may leave much to be desired however I anticipate it will benefit the game whether or not you use the feature. The potential is endless and this expansion is some what of a break through for Eve. Thank you CCP, I enjoy the direction you have taken for Incarna. However I am left bitterly disappointed with the recent 0.0 nerfs which will no doubt shadow this expansion in the future as one of those expansions that destroyed the sandbox and made it more of a communist iron curtain around some precious sand that the cat once crapped in. ...but yeh I'm looking forward to it.

Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:10:00 - [31] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Just to not be misunderstood I think incarna is a great idea and looks very good. I just think there are alot of important things that really need to be fixed like gallente ships and reducing capital ships..game breaking things that are being over looked or pushed off. I'd love to test out Incarna, sadly we only got one CQ. But I'd be the first to support walking in stations! ------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
Liva Daril Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:11:00 - [32] Anti Incarna players have NO impact, because they can¦t or won¦t be playing eve anymore. Simple as that. CCP has a looooooooong history of mostly ignoring everything that vets (& assorted bittervets) tell them on the SiSi boards or in other threadnoughts. Maybe they will wake up when the summer drought in subs continues into winter, dunno. And frankly, starting to care less and less.
Ospie The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:12:00 - [33] On the whole I'm a bit excited about the whole incarna concept, it's good to see it starting to come out. I hope it'll generally be for the better. I do see the point of people who just want to run a similar hangar to what we are used to. I have to admit I'm a little concerned about how much of my computers resources the new docked system will use over the old system, though I admit I'm completely ignorant about any feedback on that so far (have heard some complaints by alliance members who've tested it on sisi, I am fine with it as long as I can still run my 2-3 clients at once with my current settings).

CCP Guard	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Captain Mastiff I for one am thoroughly looking forward to Incarna, I know Captains Quarters is a big leap in the right direction towards Incarna and may leave much to be desired however I anticipate it will benefit the game whether or not you use the feature. The potential is endless and this expansion is some what of a break through for Eve. Thank you CCP, I enjoy the direction you have taken for Incarna. However I am left bitterly disappointed with the recent 0.0 nerfs which will no doubt shadow this expansion in the future as one of those expansions that destroyed the sandbox and made it more of a communist iron curtain around some precious sand that the cat once crapped in. ...but yeh I'm looking forward to it. We will be giving you more insight into our vision and goals for the future of 0.0. No ETAs, just letting you know that it's being worked on and that you will get to know more about our soon . It's cool stuff.

Keltas Mortermain	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:13:00 - [35] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: CCP Guard Group hug! IT'S A TRAP! this has admiral ackbars seal of approval
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:13:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Guard But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. It sure is. WoD won't do Q&A by itself. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Evelgrivion on 21/06/2011 12:17:38 Originally by: CCP Guard We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! We haven't forgotten that the situation with 0.0, Post Dominion, is the same train-wreck it's been since 2009, and up until some very recent promises, it has been left to languish. We haven't forgotten the treaties feature that has gone undeveloped. We haven't forgotten the promise CCP made many years ago to never go for MicroTransactions, and here we are struggling to keep them from going beyond vanity items. You're up against a proven record of going back on old promises when they become inconvenient and glancing over deeply flawed features in pursuit of new things to market to prospective players. Barreling on ahead with an enforced Incarna and disabling the classic hangar view does not help this perspective. I don't mean to aim this post in any particular direction, but as a body of work delivered by the whole; no offenses meant. Thank you for taking time to respond though, Guard (even if it's your job as a community manager to do stuff like that ) For the record, I actually think Incarna opens up the opportunity for some very, very cool features in the future, and I very much look forward to being able to do them. However, the enforced nature of the feature and general... featureless-ness of it aside from MicroTransactions (which we loathe) do not leave one feeling cheerful about the initial implementation.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:20:00 - [38] Of course it affected them, why else do you think Incarna went from "its voluntary you do not have to use it if you don't want to" to completely and utterly mandatory. Because all the people claiming they will never use it on forums got CCP worried. They worried because they didn't want their flagship feature being underutilized and it got them worried because the item shop that comes with Incarna is a key strategy for CCPs financial future.
LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? Do you even know what it is that you are opposing? They aren't taking anything away from you, they are just adding more game content and an entirely new game engine to go along with the game you already enjoy. If you see that as a problem, then you are likely one of those spoiled ****s that just complains about everything whether you know anything about it or not.
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:20:00 - [40] Edited by: Nullity on 21/06/2011 12:22:33 Originally by: CCP Guard For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? One of the primary reasons some people are so incensed is that the changes have no magnitude. Incarna is nothing but a new NPE, and cosmetic fluff. CCP has never actually said what game affecting content Incarna will have (if any). The only comments of the sort that we get are nebulous. Even adding players bars and such in a future expansion will add nothing to the gameplay. Incarna needs to have legitimate content to compliment all the fluff it'll have, or you'll never satisfy customers who are skeptical of it. Originally by: Evelgrivion We haven't forgotten that the situation with 0.0, Post Dominion, is the same train-wreck it's been since 2009, and up until some very recent promises, it has been left to languish. We haven't forgotten the treaties feature that has gone undeveloped. We haven't forgotten the promise CCP made many years ago to never go for MicroTransactions, and here we are struggling to keep them from going beyond vanity items. You're up against a proven record of going back on old promises when they become inconvenient and glancing over deeply flawed features in pursuit of new things to market to prospective players. Barreling on ahead with an enforced Incarna and disabling the classic hangar view does not help this perspective. I don't mean to aim this post in any particular direction, but as a body of work delivered by the whole; no offenses meant. Thank you for taking time to respond though, Guard (even if it's your job as a community manager to do stuff like that ) For the record, I actually think Incarna opens up the opportunity for some very, very cool features in the future, and I very much look forward to being able to play with them. However, the enforced nature of the feature and general... featureless-ness of it aside from MicroTransactions (which we loathe) do not leave one feeling cheerful about the initial implementation. Those are all good points, especially what I bolded.

Ineka	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:21:00 - [41] Edited by: Ineka on 21/06/2011 12:23:51 Like all the anti-removal of learning skils - "I'll quit" then they're still around here posting. Like usual they "blah blah blah" witch they are really good at, and in a few weeks will just start posting how good this feature is and why they can't do this or that. Bit vets are almost always like that, old stuff with old mentalities, incapable to adapt or evolve. Let them in their soup, do your game. Edit: I've tested this feature in Sisi and all I can tell you is that if you can't see the titanic possibilities in all aspects to improve the game, then you lack severely of imagination. Strong basement for bigger stuff and our spaceships will be even better, w8 and see.
Enuen Ravenseye Malevolence. Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:23:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Guard But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. Perhaps there wouldn't be a high level of worry and mistrust if your customers had a good grasp of what that journey will look like in the future. Perhaps if your customers didn't feel that you're making a total money grab with the igNoble Exchange, they would feel better about the path the game is taking. Perhaps if you were spending more time addressing the real issues in the game instead of designing Barbie Princess Dress-Up, your customers might have a bit more faith in believing you've chosen a reasonable path for the future. Perhaps someday your customers will see patch notes with important information like "moon goo now decays and will re-distribute every 10-14 days" instead of seeing "now your avatar can WAVE!!!", then they'll be more confident in joining your journey.
Irulan Corinno Caldari 714th SQN - Snowflakes	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:24:00 - [43] "Does the Number Of Anti-Incarna Players Have Any Effect On CCP?" I think the low number of people that are against Incarna has the effect that CCP does their best to make the station walkers happy? :D
Amberlamps	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:25:00 - [44] Edited by: Amberlamps on 21/06/2011 12:26:33 Originally by: CCP Guard Originally by: Captain Mastiff I for one am thoroughly looking forward to Incarna, I know Captains Quarters is a big leap in the right direction towards Incarna and may leave much to be desired however I anticipate it will benefit the game whether or not you use the feature. The potential is endless and this expansion is some what of a break through for Eve. Thank you CCP, I enjoy the direction you have taken for Incarna. However I am left bitterly disappointed with the recent 0.0 nerfs which will no doubt shadow this expansion in the future as one of those expansions that destroyed the sandbox and made it more of a communist iron curtain around some precious sand that the cat once crapped in. ...but yeh I'm looking forward to it. We will be giving you more insight into our vision and goals for the future of 0.0. No ETAs, just letting you know that it's being worked on and that you will get to know more about our soon . It's cool stuff. Cool stuffs, like... like party hats? Edit: Please hurry up, if you don't I might have to resort to watching highlights of Wimbledon.
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:25:00 - [45] Edited by: Nullity on 21/06/2011 12:25:48 Originally by: Ineka Like all the anti-removal of learning skils - "I'll quit" then they're still around here posting. Like usual they "blah blah blah" witch they are really good at, and in a few weeks will just start posting how good this feature is and why they can't do this or that. Bit vets are almost always like that, old stuff with old mentalities, incapable to adapt or evolve. Let them in their soup, do your game. This is much deeper than removing learning skills (which, by the way, seemed very well received by old and new players alike since the idea was first suggested by the older players of the community). We're dealing with a not only a near-contentless expansion, but also one that is a blatant cash grab. This has nothing to do with adapting, as there's nothing to adapt to in the current Incarna. It has no effect on gameplay, and it's unknown if it ever will.
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 21/06/2011 12:33:38 You are asking the wrong question. PPl opposing Incarna are very few in number, because what is there to oppose? Just ignore it (well, not so easy anymore as its not optional, best you get is a picture....). Sure, it does take dev-time away from the spacegame, and that can be anoying. The real problem is what comes WITH it (MT) and how this will change the game fundamenttaly as its going down the road of "better items in time" or even worse, "things out of thin air". So be carefull not to mix both issues.
Shepard Book	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:37:00 - [47] I am looking forward to hearing more about establishments and 0.o changes. Bring on the blogs!
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:38:00 - [48] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't oppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without sceptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! I for one fall into the category of I want Incarna but think you have messed up the design... specifically you screwed up massively when you removed the hanger view. As for reacting to our feedback... we have been 'complaining' (giving feedback) about a number of problems with CQ for over a month with no dev response except 'oh we can't respond to all your questions, we don't have the time' Read as "oops we scheduled a big expansion right after E3 and AT9 and we will make it worse by releasing in the build up a load of badly written inflammatory dev blogs that will cause a pr disaster that will take up all our posting time to prevent us from being able to provide any feedback to those actually testing our new expansion for us".... which is not an excuse for responding to none of our questions/feedback. If this is your best at responding to feedback its pathetic, please do better. I want Incarna to be good, many of the people who are 'complaining' also want it to be good. We complain because we want Incarna to be good. If you are so confident in your decision to remove the hanger and replace it with CQ instead of augmenting the hanger by adding CQ.... perhaps you could explain this, otherwise apparently idiotic looking decision to us? Please post here with answers. also, on the topic of low hanging fruit... you couldn't even manage to respond/fix the 'we only get 50 fittings' issue, how long has it been since you screwed that up, with no dev response at all, not even a peep. You have to have seen the threads on it, so you are making a concious choice not to respond... either you can justify your decision but don't respect us enough to tell us what the reasoning is... or you can't justify it, and you are too chicken to tell us... Which is it? -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:39:00 - [49] Well given that people have generally posting against incarna since the first public test, and given the results of ccps survey, given the comments on the "other sites", and given that the first page of GD looks like - No more ship spinning? No more unprobable? Why isn't it optional? I don't want to make a face Ati shafted again No more hangar view And so on... I really don't think incarna is the most popular patch.
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Irulan Corinno "Does the Number Of Anti-Incarna Players Have Any Effect On CCP?" I think the low number of people that are against Incarna has the effect that CCP does their best to make the station walkers happy? :D You think so? "Incarna"'s climactic release consists of a motel room. A Minmatar motel room in every station throughout New Eden. Where the venerated capsuleer must decant every single time they dock, no matter where they've docked or why they've docked. To add injury to insult, they must stumble out of their pod onto a narrow metal walkway outside their motel room, where a sniper could happily shoot them. Iteration? Two words: Faction Warfare.

Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Ospie I have to admit I'm a little concerned about how much of my computers resources the new docked system will use over the old system, Well we have to be honest, this first leg is gonna be about stress-testing and tweaking the engine so that as many people can run the game smoothly as possible.
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:45:00 - [52] Edited by: Evelgrivion on 21/06/2011 12:46:20 Edited by: Evelgrivion on 21/06/2011 12:45:27 Originally by: Mirabi Tiane Iteration? Two words: Faction Warfare. Don't forget Black Ops Battleships, Dominion's Sovereignty System, Super Carriers, COSMOS, the Drone Regions, the Technetium problem, or CCP's resistance to changes like re-balancing rockets, or initiatives that died on the vine like Treaties, the Assault Frigate change, creating targets of opportunity for small gangs, etc...
Josefine Etrange Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Jaak 242 Thst's the second question. Is it the minority or the majority? Depends imo on the question. Haters of incarna and the whole wis idea? A minority. Disliking the implementation of walking in prison? We could have here a winner. Still, nothing ccp can not fix in the next 6 months, as it is not a game breaking or making feature set anyway. Why a forum in the year 2011 still has no automatic double post merge which can be done even with javascript mostly is beyond my understanding.
Ineka	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Nullity Originally by: Ineka Like all the anti-removal of learning skils - "I'll quit" then they're still around here posting. Like usual they "blah blah blah" witch they are really good at, and in a few weeks will just start posting how good this feature is and why they can't do this or that. Bit vets are almost always like that, old stuff with old mentalities, incapable to adapt or evolve. Let them in their soup, do your game. Quote: This is much deeper than removing learning skills (which, by the way, seemed very well received by old and new players alike since the idea was first suggested by the older players of the community). Are you kidding me? The thread with over 86 pages in less than 3 months I've followed almost every day, witch I can ask you to go there read it again and you'll see the opposed of what you are stating? Almost ALL BIT VETS were against, even petitioned and blah blah about quit and asking other bit vets to not re sub. You've got a little memory. Some like Chribba remembered those same bit vets learnings weren't already wanted from beta version. I suggest you to read again that thread before you continue saying false stuff. Quote: We're dealing with a not only a near-contentless expansion, but also one that is a blatant cash grab. This has nothing to do with adapting, as there's nothing to adapt to in the current Incarna. It has no affect on gameplay, and it's unknown if it ever will. Wtf are you talking about? -you say there's no content, no effect on game play, that it's a blatant cash grab feature... Changing the old version of 1st contact for newbs is no content? -this is the beginning No effect on game play, are you serious? -wait, it's the basement for other stuff and you should be happy by seeing Eve get improved in forms you didn't expected. They surprised you (and me) once again! What cash grab? -doing what players ask for years now, how to improve new players experience with this kind of feature it's just awesome. Does it changes the noobs being can flipped or scammed? no, but a lot of new tools in this feature are absolutely awesome for new players. You should start a new character and use all those features to understand by yourself this is something asked from long time ago and that it's even better than you could expect because it's a very good basement to other features. Open your little minds, all the opportunities of improvement and interaction from this feature to Dust514, new features to Eve space ships etc.
trevor51alphaTBE	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:53:00 - [55] i'm not really bothered about walking around a station. it could be just like the last few upgrades, waste of time!!
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:54:00 - [56] Station Environments will be disabled before I even enter the game after the patch. That is how LITTLE I think of Incarna. I pay for spaceships... in SPACE. Not Barbie's in closets. Been to SISI, Tried it, Nice graphics in space. Nothing interesting in CQ except the **** on my avatar.. and they excite me less than squishing an ant does. Count me as 1 player not interested in your Incarna offering. p.s. I cancelled 3 accounts because I can't see paying you any more money to turn a game I love into Barbie Dolls in space. To you trolls. No, you can't have my stuff... your not worthy, besides I'm not quitting, I'm just no longer paying for eve out of MY wallet. -
Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:56:00 - [57] You do realise that you won' be able to disable CQ right ? You might at the start but that option will be removed later.
Demure Guise	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:57:00 - [58] People have asked about walking around outside their ship since the days I first started playing, over five years ago - it was this interest that eventually got CCP to include it. Honestly, what is there about walking around that makes some people weep over it? Are some people's computers so inadequate that they can't run the graphics or something? Maybe they should stick to 'Pong'.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:58:00 - [59] What CCP should have been doing: Quote: Okay, there are things we want to do with the game. The best way to do these things is to add walking in stations. What CCP actually did: Quote: Hey, you know what'd be cool? Detailed character models walking around in stations! Let's find some way to justify that. Form should follow function, not the other way around. I'm certain that's Incarna's biggest flaw. But I doubt it'll impact the bottom line at all. Even if subscriber numbers take a dive, the cash shop should more than cover the dip. And the subscriber numbers probably won't dive.
Gypsy RoseLee	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:59:00 - [60] There is only one effective way to let CCP know how you feel about the direction they are taking Eve Online, including the walking in stations expansion. Vote with your wallet. All three of my paid accounts are now canceled, just riding out the end of the current subscriptions. I'll let Eve sit on the shelf for a couple years, I suppose it's possible that they'll get the message and correct the direction they have taken in the last couple years, but I'm not holding my breath.

Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [61] when talking about majority vs minority wishes of the players... You can never please everyone all the time... But you can some of the time... If Incarna was accessed via a button on the station neocom... like it was in the fanfest demo's... then those that wanted it could opt to use it, when ever they wanted... those that didn't want it could opt no to use it... those that care about immersion wouldn't be troubled by having their char decant every time they undocked... the designers would be free to pick and choose what functionality they wanted for incarna rather than being forced to have the entire in space UI IN ADDITION to the new 3d UI to enable our CQ's to function a bit like the hanger but still with reduced functionality and higher load due to running two UI's at the same time... those Who love RP and Immersion would benefit because the design could truly reflect the 'disconnected-ness' of leaving the pod, and really make you feel the pod pilots discomfort by making every step away from the pod one that would have to be taken back to return to it.... This was one shining golden opportunity to make everyone (ignoring trolls and those who want all devs to spend all their time working on reducing lag) happy. They blew it. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Jashmyne You do realise that you won' be able to disable CQ right ? You might at the start but that option will be removed later. When they disable the ability to disable the CQ, I will stop playing eve. Simple enough, yes? -
Messy Beaver	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Kara Audanie Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Kara Audanie Keep on crying, who know, it might have an impact. When would you EVER learn? CCP wouldn't be publishing a game that ISN'T OPTIMIZED! Here this, how about you shut up and try it out before QQ all over about it before it even begin. It is like you sort of people who are what holding CCP back for many years... What in the world are you talking about, and in what language? I asked two questions. Do you need a definition of the word 'question'? Your questions are rather more of one sided opinion therefore you are complaining instead of asking two sides of opinion ALSO you have created this thread for this one sided opinion as well. They'll never go hungry if people like you keep feeding them
Croier	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You've got it a little mixed up. 1) - They ARE interested in keeping the existing players happy but the majority of the existing players aren't complaining about Incarna, which leads me to point 2; 2) - The people who aren't vocally anti-Incarna aren't necessarily pushing for it either. Want to know why? We just don't care THAT much either way. Take me for example. I think Incarna will be a pretty cool addition. I'll walk around a station for 5 minutes, I'll go ''heh, there's Allant!'' then i'll undock and pew pew in Spaceships like I always have done. It doesn't change anything about the game we all know and love, it just adds something extra for those people who want it. (For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack) Want something different to Incarna? Be patient, your time will come. ^^^this^^^ Case closed!!
Dimitri Fukoyama	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:04:00 - [65] Edited by: Dimitri Fukoyama on 21/06/2011 13:06:28 Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! I was all for incarna early on, as i felt it would draw new blood to eve who could then check out a game that has more meat on the bones than games like Rift and warhammer online etc... So the lackluster in terms of new gameplay was a tradeoff to get some new people to check out eve, which was okay with me. I cant shake this feeling though that Dust is the real expansion and that CCP is asking us to buy this ~400$ expansion (buy a PS3 + a game) or forget about playing it.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:04:00 - [66] Originally by: Zora'e p.s. I cancelled 3 accounts because I can't see paying you any more money to turn a game I love into Barbie Dolls in space. I say, good riddance for that. I am certain most people don't give a toss if some delusional whiner leaves the game. Hyperbole and exaggeration is usually the only way trolls and the vocal minority can communicate with the outside world, we neither need or want your kind in this, otherwise good, community. Quote: No, you can't have my stuff... I think my corp has salvaged what was useful from your ships anyway, when we blasted you into pieces the last time. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Allant Doran For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack Nope.
gdjghjhgjfh Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 - [68] Originally by: Jaak 242 Thst's the second question. Is it the minority or the majority? its irrelevant I mine/build/fight/cloak. i usually mine to get minerals to build so i have stuff to fight with if not i cloak
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Mirabi Tiane Originally by: Allant Doran For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack Nope. Agreed, as an RP'er this hurts my immersion. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Azahni Vah'nos Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:08:00 - [70] So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here.

Liva Daril Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Ineka Open your little minds, all the opportunities of improvement and interaction from this feature to Dust514, new features to Eve space ships etc. Hmm, you seem to be a wee youngling to CCP¦s OZOM features. Let me educate you a bit, though even you should¦ve started smelling the sh!t when the oh so incredible Captain¦s quarters are slashed to just ONE on launch of this EXITING new vision for EVE. CCP always promises new features then forgets "iterating" on them. Incarna was promised for years! 3 years ago we were shown the nice (old)hangar view, then Torfi clicked a nice button, had to wait 15 secs for the session change(hilarious), then clicked the button again to spawn in his avatar in the actual *POD-effin-room. Now we have this idiotic balcony and no pod room, no proper hangar anymore, no other racial artwork. Just a couch, a mirror and the only useful thing* is the new agent finder. Which was done as an afterthought by Team BFF. Welcome to CCP. Enjoy your Fanboi ardor while it lasts.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [72] Edited by: Soden Rah on 21/06/2011 13:15:28 Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here. the community at large has a tendency not to know what's going on till the patch hits TQ... its the minority of the player base that actually reads the devblogs/forums. Also their is a 7 page petition going strong on keeping the hanger view and entering CQ after docking... So this is an issue that does have some traction. EDIT: also I DO want incarna... I just want to keep the hanger view as well. Plus feature for immersion should not break immersion. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Zora'e p.s. I cancelled 3 accounts because I can't see paying you any more money to turn a game I love into Barbie Dolls in space. I say, good riddance for that. I am certain most people don't give a toss if some delusional whiner leaves the game. Hyperbole and exaggeration is usually the only way trolls and the vocal minority can communicate with the outside world, we neither need or want your kind in this, otherwise good, community. Quote: No, you can't have my stuff... I think my corp has salvaged what was useful from your ships anyway, when we blasted you into pieces the last time. Ironic considering you haven't 'blasted' me into pieces before. Perhaps you are delusional? Either way, nice troll. I'll give you +1 Internets for the attempt, even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. -
Syphon Lodian Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:17:00 - [74] Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 21/06/2011 13:18:49 I'm all for Incarna, I'm just a bit wary of some of the angles of approach. We haven't seen the other race CQ's yet, so it could change, but the level of immersion seems to be a bit weak, and it doesn't look like much care was given for establishing that immersion with CQ's. For instance, we have CQs available to us at every station in the entire universe and they are all the same, so far, Minmatar.. but that will change of course. Also, it should give you the option to disembark. Once you click disembark, you go through a short animated sequence where your pod is pulled in to a docking bay, you hear some whizz, bangs, pops and sounds of showering and steam, and the door opens up and you step out. Instead, you're pristine and ready to go, in the same CQ as everyone else, every single time. Disembarking in a station should be an interesting, refreshing experience. ------------------------------------------------- Go pod yourself.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:18:00 - [75] Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So do people really want Incarna? I would suggest that the majority do ... reason why? If it was that hated by the community at large then you would see threadnoughts everywhere on the forum. Do you remember when Blizzard went to add the compulsary RealID to WoW, their forums went into overload and many of the comments seen were from first time posters. I don't doubt you would see the same thing occur here. It's not about simple love vs hate. There's a whole spectrum of feelings towards Incarna. I don't actually hate Incarna, for example. I think it's a tremendous waste of resources, I think it's completely unjustified, I think it's completely redundant as far as actual function goes, and I think its main motivating feature from the "head management" side is that it makes money. But I don't hate Incarna because there's nothing to hate. What am I supposed to get angry at? Pointless aesthetics that I never cared about and which don't really influence me? You can't hate something which you don't give a **** about. My guess is simply that most people don't care about Incarna, or those who do have yet to try it. It's a novel experience for the first 10 minutes, but after that, there's nothing there. This may be an expansion, but it's not a gameplay expansion. There are no gameplay additions in Incarna. Walking around alone in an instanced box is not gameplay. I don't care how pretty you make the box.
cBOLTSON Star Frontiers Ignore This.	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [76] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! For me personally I am not overly anticipating incarna. I am looking forwards to seeing my ship up close. I also feel like yes incarna could lead to great things (Im thinking boarding ships/outposts). But untill the full functionality of incarna starts to be seen a lot of people are pretty indiffrent about incarna. So best thing to do is get incarna out, sort it out, build ONTOP of incarna and make it a REAL part of the game and not just some room. Also dont forget about the spaceships part, make it more fun plz
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [77] Originally by: Zora'e even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. Considering I'm a woman your pathetic attempt at taking a potshot fail miserably. Nice try though. In any case, well done for dodging my first paragraph. Goes to show that when all your hyperbole and exaggeration arguments wear out the only thing you can do is change the subject and become a douche. So the one being a troll in this case is you. Not very surprising. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Fearsome Engine	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:21:00 - [78] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You are assuming that the few vocal whining idiots on the forum are somehow representative of the majority of the player base. If I recall correctly, the number of players who post on the forums is around the 5-7% mark, of which probably 10-20% are unhappy with the idea of Incarna. Now I am aware that the 10-20% figure is only an extremely rough estimate based on the number of threads made that are against Incarna, and the subsequent unique players who posted in agreement in those threads, but the 5-7% figure was from CCP, so I feel comfortable in saying that most people do not share such a negative view. TL;DR There are a few highly vocal dissenters who are, realistically speaking, vastly out numbered by those who are either neutral toward, or in support of Incarna.
Ezzr Goode Drugs 'R' Us	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:21:00 - [79] I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:25:00 - [80] I'm an example of a dissenter who actually supports Incarna.

Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:26:00 - [81] Originally by: Croier Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You've got it a little mixed up. 1) - They ARE interested in keeping the existing players happy but the majority of the existing players aren't complaining about Incarna, which leads me to point 2; 2) - The people who aren't vocally anti-Incarna aren't necessarily pushing for it either. Want to know why? We just don't care THAT much either way. Take me for example. I think Incarna will be a pretty cool addition. I'll walk around a station for 5 minutes, I'll go ''heh, there's Allant!'' then i'll undock and pew pew in Spaceships like I always have done. It doesn't change anything about the game we all know and love, it just adds something extra for those people who want it. (For RPers this will be an incredible expansion pack) Want something different to Incarna? Be patient, your time will come. ^^^this^^^ Case closed!! Don't be too hasty. Not too long ago CCP was going to change the way people approach Eve Online. They were going to take things to a whole different level. They were going to create a portal into the world of New Eden via a social networking site that would be the gateway to all of the different online and offline elements of Eve Online. CCP talks a lot about adding new dimensions to the game, and I have no doubt that they are sincere in their evangalizing. However their dreams seem to be about twenty times larger than their talent pool. Perhaps their dreams are too big for modern technology...they're ahead of their time. I know individuals like this...they talk all the time about their next big project, and when you check back in with them six months later, they've moved on to something else. I fell for it with Eve Gate. I really believed that it would be everything they touted it to be. Not only did it fail to deliver, but it has not been 'iterated.' It is an out-of-game email client. Period. Perhaps Incarna will change the way we play the game. Perhaps Dust will add a whole new dimension to MMOs. But as they say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Color me 'Cautiously pessimistic.'
impli Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:26:00 - [82] Incarna is a good expansion, because it's the beginning of the end vision, where eve goes. EVE is not just internet space ships it wants to be a FULL science fiction MMPOG. So yes I am for incarna and future expansions like incarna. I am looking forward to meet my "EVE" Friends in Bars and drink quafe. Who don't want to interact in station should move to 0.0 and shoot people in a face.
Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:28:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". Great job listing all the types of people who are against this but you forgot one. The kind that has been waiting for Incarna, seen the video's and can't wait to Walk in Stations, speak to other players face to face and have vast sections of the EVE Universe opened to them. Just to find out that you used the Hype of the name Incarna to release one Minmatar Instanced Room and are calling that Incarna. Most anyone I ask in game wuld prefer inspace features be looked at as you have seen with threads on it piling up. The Ones who do want Incarna tend to agree that this is not much of an Incarna.
Sellendis Caldari The Ares project	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:29:00 - [84] Considering CQ that was on test server. After first few minutes, lets make it half hour tops of walking and looking around CQ i got bored with it. So now every time i docked my char stayed at the entrance, i did all refitting and stuff without walking to the sofa in the room. Lets face it, how many people are gonna walk to the sofa to sit down and do PI, get new mission, or browse the market every time they dock, and then get up walk to the ship on the catwalk and launch. Its gonna be nice a few times, then it just gets boring to do the same thing i can do by not moving at all from the entrance. I appreciate the effort that went into making CQ possible by devs. But not the compromise of losing functions we had by now. Dragging a ship from tab to screen to make it active, double click to open cargo bay, and spinning the bloody thing are just some that come to mind. How many people will get bored with one room and nothing in it (but FPS killer and VGA heater) and turning the whole goddamn thing off? If possible, could CCP track how many people disabled CQ, how many people dont move at all when docked, how many steps they did in CQ. In a month the numbers would show the truth about CQ usage...if CCP would tell us the truth at all :)
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:31:00 - [85] I could understand the point of all this World of EVEcraft **** that's being forced on us if the forums had been full of people begging for: * microtransactions * a new currency to spend/waste their PLEX/RL cash on (see above) * the ability to dance around in a station * hello kitty hats for their avatars (and whatever other **** they come up with) * a new way to look at your ship while it's docked (captains balcony) * a remodelling of a seldom used sub-par cruiser hull (lolmaller) * another 0.0 nerf (JB changes) * new tutorial mission (that no new player does because 99% of them are introduced by RL friends who bankroll them, or they are alts) * turret animations (which you will no doubt have to switch off to control lag in large fleets anyway, like every other effect ) The only worthwhile World of EVEcraft feature is the NPC ECM change, but that only fixes something that was broken by CCP in the first place. If you want to prance round pretending to be someone you're not, why not try Second Life or WoW? If you want a damn fine internet spaceships game... well... invent time travel and set the dial for 2009 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:32:00 - [86] Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You are assuming that the few vocal whining idiots on the forum are somehow representative of the majority of the player base. If I recall correctly, the number of players who post on the forums is around the 5-7% mark, of which probably 10-20% are unhappy with the idea of Incarna. Now I am aware that the 10-20% figure is only an extremely rough estimate based on the number of threads made that are against Incarna, and the subsequent unique players who posted in agreement in those threads, but the 5-7% figure was from CCP, so I feel comfortable in saying that most people do not share such a negative view. TL;DR There are a few highly vocal dissenters who are, realistically speaking, vastly out numbered by those who are either neutral toward, or in support of Incarna. you can't make this statement for exactly the same reason that people claiming a majority hate incarna... you don't have the figures. Also you can't extrapolate from the self selecting few that post on the forums to those that don't. which means the majority of people on the forums could love or hate Incarna, and the majority of the player base could have the opposite opinion. If 10~20% of the forum dwellers do indeed dislike this implementation of incarna, and that percentage is played across the rest of EVE, then you are talking about between 1 in 10 and 1 in 5 players who would be happier with an option to disembark upon docking rather than mandatory CQ... Seeing as that option doesn't hurt those that don't care about it, why not please the 10~20% of people you guess do care? -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:34:00 - [87] CCP has their vision of what EvE will ultimately become. They've tried to convey this countless times. If you don't like it, you should save yourself some money because no amount of whining is going to deflect them at this point from what they see as EvE's direction going forward.
Edward Drumm	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:35:00 - [88] Originally by: Ezzr Goode I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr You do realse that the "classic hanger view" no longer exists? You are forced to load the walking in station content each time you dock, unless you are happy with a static screen stating "loading" (what you get when you disable it currently) Just thought i would pre warn you before you get a nasty shock when you log in.
Malachi256	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:37:00 - [89] IMHO, anyone who is upset about Incarna doesn't see the big picture... or they simply want Eve to remain a niche game. I want Eve to flourish. I think Eve is the best sandbox MMO out there (the only decent one, really, but it's been handled well). It's our "last, best hope for MMOs." So I welcome Incarna. I welcome the Dev's vision of a more fully realized sci-fi MMO universe, with a multitude of people and play styles catered to. I see Eve being an amazing game 10 years from now. I can't say that about any other MMO out there.
Jashmyne Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:37:00 - [90] Ever thought however that those might be future features ? Mean, can we all agree that this leg is gonna be purely for testing to make sure the engine is working properly and tweaking the engine so that it runs smoothly. Wouldn't it make sense then to make sure that all people are indeed using this feature ? After all, the more feedback they get the better the chance of them fixing it(common rule in any game-testing). Maybe a "leave ship" button will appear down the line once they tweaked the engine. Again, you never know but regardless, at the moment it's more important to get Carbon working.

Josie Grosie	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:42:00 - [91] I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. Surely the major imbalances like super caps should be fixed first. What about faction warfare, hybrids, sovereignty, obselete ship classes, moon goo,etc etc. Countless times watching the alliance tournament I heard devs say we know about this and this problem. Well how about you fix that instead of implementing a new feature with all the initial startup problems it is going to have. Oh and whining does have its benefits, lets not forget that its thanks to people whining on outside websites that we have team bff.
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:43:00 - [92] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Zora'e even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. Considering I'm a woman your pathetic attempt at taking a potshot fail miserably. Nice try though. In any case, well done for dodging my first paragraph. Goes to show that when all your hyperbole and exaggeration arguments wear out the only thing you can do is change the subject and become a douche. So the one being a troll in this case is you. Not very surprising. LOL again, nice try (if you ARE in fact a women and not a guy pretending to be a RL female player, congratulations for playing EVE, not many women do.). However let me point a few things out that you failed to consider. I've been on SISI and experienced CQ. My opinion and statement is based on experiencing CQ first hand, at present it is an utter failure due to the WAY ccp is implementing it. I am actually FOR Incarna, as I see the potential it has. However in it's current form, I personally predict the backlash from it will be the largest EVE has ever seen before for any expansion. CCP Implemented a 'feature' that realistically, adds virtually nothing to current game mechanics within the stations themselves (yes I know it is still young, and is groundwork for the future). However at present, about all Incarna really adds is 3 times the hardware requirements than pre-Incarna. CCP has consistently refused to even ACKNOWLEDGE player suggestions and concerns over the way they are implementing CQ, which is in DIRECT contradiction to what CCP themselves promised for how WIS would be implemented and ran (i.e. Optional decants rather than mandatory decants). If you are unable to see how this is a problem then honestly... I pity you. You also conveniently neglected to finish reading my original statement, which was I won't be paying for EVE out of my own personal wallet. Not that I was quitting eve. Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. However, should CCP not follow through with their STATED promise that WiS would be 100% optional, and choose to make it mandatory across the board, I will most likely quit playing eve and move on to something else... if I can find anything else that actually holds my interest for more than two weeks anyway. Unlike you, who has resorted to LIEING about their accomplishments (i.e. your statement that your corp blew me up, and salvaged my wrecks etc), I back my statements up with actual experience, and fact based on that experience. Something you seem unable to do. Have a nice day. Cupcake. -
Isha Steel	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:44:00 - [93] Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out!
Rek Seven Gallente Zandathorn Industries	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:48:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! I started playing EVE because of incarna i'd im looking forward to seeing the fully implemented feature in the future. However, i'm getting tired off all these updates that reduce my game time and cause frustration when i have to download an update that seems to have done nothing but introduce a load of bugs. I love the idea of EVE contently growing and evolving but how come you guys are so caught up with introducing new things instead of fixing the old? Nobody wants you to reinvent the wheel but there are so many features in this game that need polishing, it makes the game feel broken at times.
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:51:00 - [95] Originally by: Rek Seven I started playing EVE because of incarna There's your problem --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kile Kitmoore	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:51:00 - [96] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! Consider me hanging. CCP has a long road ahead to get us to that "WIS" original vision. I am in the glad Incarna is finally taking form but not pleased about losing my hanger viewer group. Also in the not pleased your RMT store is being spun like some headlining feature of Incarna group. Add it if you must but talking about it like it's some feature we have all been clamoring for is ridiculous. Watching AT9 and all the constant talk about the store got a bit irritating. I just hope you guys are watching the incoming and outgoing subs closely. I would especially watch multi-account players, this expansion could see a reduction because of demands on hardware . It will be interesting.
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:51:00 - [97] Originally by: Rui Morin Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Rui Morin Oh good, yet another thread for the same old *****ing. Can't you just post in one of the eleventy-hundred other threads about this? Another poster child for the combination of genetic drift and moral decay heard from. Thanks for your input. I assure you that I will give it the consideration it deserves. Your reply says nothing and you are still not explaining why yet another "Incarna sucks" thread needs to be created? Question (definition) 1. a. An expression of inquiry that invites or calls for a reply. b. An interrogative sentence, phrase, or gesture. I'd like to add an expression of interest in an issue. Does that help you? No? TFB. I also don't remember saying anything about Incarna sucking, and, when I checked my post, I find I was correct.
Sellendis Caldari The Ares project	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:52:00 - [98] Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! How about fixing current problems first, not adding new ones? Currently CQ is a car with only 1 wheel on, and dragster fuel consumption. People are not against incarna, they are against mostly useless CQ. Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles.
Josie Grosie	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:56:00 - [99] Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! Death due to old age seems a whole lot closer than a balanced game at this point
AFKCloaked AltSpy	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:57:00 - [100] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? I guess they weighed the pros and cons and went forward with a business decision. ****ing mind blowing, isnt it?

Doctor John Smith	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Sellendis Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! How about fixing current problems first, not adding new ones? Currently CQ is a car with only 1 wheel on, and dragster fuel consumption. People are not against incarna, they are against mostly useless CQ. Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles. I take it you're against the contraband changes and gambling casinos coming in August? I am making an assumption, but the majority of that assumption is based on the fact we can't have those without CQ. Ps. Contract me any Improved Drop Booster blueprints and i'll pay 8mil each in Highsec.
Indorian Pure Evil Warriors The Devil's Warrior Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Doctor John Smith Originally by: Sellendis Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! How about fixing current problems first, not adding new ones? Currently CQ is a car with only 1 wheel on, and dragster fuel consumption. People are not against incarna, they are against mostly useless CQ. Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles. I take it you're against the contraband changes and gambling casinos coming in August? I am making an assumption, but the majority of that assumption is based on the fact we can't have those without CQ. Ps. Contract me any Improved Drop Booster blueprints and i'll pay 8mil each in Highsec. This
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:06:00 - [103] Originally by: Edward Drumm Originally by: Ezzr Goode I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr You do realse that the "classic hanger view" no longer exists? You are forced to load the walking in station content each time you dock, unless you are happy with a static screen stating "loading" (what you get when you disable it currently) Just thought i would pre warn you before you get a nasty shock when you log in. This is precisely the reason people are moaning. Not at Incarna but at the fact you are removing the sodding hanger so you HAVE TO USE IT ALL THE FRECKING TIME! The design CCP has implemented in that regard is tragic and ill conceived.
Kile Kitmoore	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Hannibal Ord Originally by: Edward Drumm Originally by: Ezzr Goode I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr You do realse that the "classic hanger view" no longer exists? You are forced to load the walking in station content each time you dock, unless you are happy with a static screen stating "loading" (what you get when you disable it currently) Just thought i would pre warn you before you get a nasty shock when you log in. This is precisely the reason people are moaning. Not at Incarna but at the fact you are removing the sodding hanger so you HAVE TO USE IT ALL THE FRECKING TIME! The design CCP has implemented in that regard is tragic and ill conceived. Amen!
Libria Kyzal	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:12:00 - [105] Mostly I'm just ****ed because all the people I camp into stations will now have something to do apart from ship spinning. 'Tis not good business for griefers D: Darn you CCP!
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:14:00 - [106] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Zora'e even if it was small, and pathetic.. much like your manhood. Considering I'm a woman your pathetic attempt at taking a potshot fail miserably. Nice try though. In any case, well done for dodging my first paragraph. Goes to show that when all your hyperbole and exaggeration arguments wear out the only thing you can do is change the subject and become a douche. So the one being a troll in this case is you. Not very surprising. Less than 5% of the players in the game are women. You don't really expect us to believe you, do you? Exaggeration and hyperbole are nice words, but your usage suggests that you don't understand their meanings. Nice try. But my next question is, "What do any of your posts have to do with whether CCP is affected by the number of players who are, shall we say, not actively supporting Incarna?" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - ------------------------------- /////////////////////////////
SNeAkYbRiT Gunslingers Corp	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:16:00 - [107] not against change or incarna...just give us options instead of dictating to us.
Isha Steel	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:17:00 - [108] Originally by: Sellendis Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! How about fixing current problems first, not adding new ones? Currently CQ is a car with only 1 wheel on, and dragster fuel consumption. People are not against incarna, they are against mostly useless CQ. Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles. "Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles." is quite the sweeping statement seeing as I tested it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience (especially as it ran for me at 1650X1080, max settings on an aging core2duo with a 3 year old ATI graphics card with a framerate above 40fps). Yes their are features that need fixing but every step like this every iteration brings EvE closer to what I want it to be, and just like you I care little about YOUR opinion.
Ezzr Goode Drugs 'R' Us	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:20:00 - [109] Originally by: Edward Drumm Originally by: Ezzr Goode I'm not fussed with Incarna, but I think it will be good for EVE (and CCP) as it will bring in new players. Personally, I don't expect to do much walking in stations, probably spend 30 minutes looking at my ships in the hanger then switch to current 'classic' hanger view and be done with it. Ezzr You do realse that the "classic hanger view" no longer exists? You are forced to load the walking in station content each time you dock, unless you are happy with a static screen stating "loading" (what you get when you disable it currently) Just thought i would pre warn you before you get a nasty shock when you log in. Bah, humbug
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:20:00 - [110] Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like... CCP Guard, Ima let you finish, but Apocrypha was the best patch of all time, of all time.

Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:23:00 - [111] In the end, I'm glad i asked because two of the responses have made me reconsider the whole Incarna thing. I'd still like to see existing issues fixed, and I'm still not interested in the CQ, but: I think it will bring in new players, which is good for all of us. I really like the idea that it may lead to a more full spectrum 'internet spaceship' game, even though this isn't the way that I would have approached it.
AthlonJedi Gallente RazorBlade Smile Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:25:00 - [112] it never ceases to amaze me how many people are complaining about CQ. CCP envisioned eve as a SCIFI SIMULATOR NOT JUST A DAMN GAME! In keeping with this ideal, dont you think people WOULD be getting out of thier ships and walking around in stations, thier POSes ( hopfuly down the road ), and thier PI Planets ( Via dust atm but with any luck players in eve will too at some point) What , you think people 20000 yrs from now are gonna spend thier entire existance ( cant say life, thiers clones you know ) in thier pod? I for one have been waiting for this since it was announced WAY WAY WAY back in 2006. What no one else has felt all this time something was missing in eve? And to be honest with everyone, I didnt spend the money on 3 hd projectors, screen, eyefinity graphincs, 16'x8' screen...... just to stay in my ship FOREVER. While some my not like this epansion, they are usualy the ones that don't understand the difference between a SIMULATION and a GAME. EVE IS A REAL PLACE, although it is a place that only exists in virtual space ( look it up if you don't know what that is ) it still exists none the less. Those complaining arte also usualy the ones that were complaining virtual reality doesnt exist yet back in the day. GUESS WHAT it DOES exist, its just not presant in YOUR concept of what a virtual reality should be. Its called EVE ONLINE and other simulations like it. CCP keep up the excelent work as you progress twards your vision of what EVE is ment to be.
Melkath Bandrom	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:28:00 - [113] Originally by: Keltas Mortermain when you dock up you get an option CQ or docking bay "last being current enviroment. casue i can imagine CQ slowing down ore drop offs and so on but hell whats 1 min extra VIVA LA CQ!!!!! For those of us missioning for Isk/hr ratio, over 60 missions thats an hour of time. That REALLY hurts if your running Courier missions for standings as well. Time is money in this game if you are efficient enough and want to make Isk or other rewards with as little delay as possible.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:30:00 - [114] Originally by: AthlonJedi it never ceases to amaze me how many people are complaining about CQ. CCP envisioned eve as a SCIFI SIMULATOR NOT JUST A DAMN GAME! In keeping with this ideal, dont you think people WOULD be getting out of thier ships and walking around in stations, thier POSes ( hopfuly down the road ), and thier PI Planets ( Via dust atm but with any luck players in eve will too at some point) What , you think people 20000 yrs from now are gonna spend thier entire existance ( cant say life, thiers clones you know ) in thier pod? I for one have been waiting for this since it was announced WAY WAY WAY back in 2006. What no one else has felt all this time something was missing in eve? And to be honest with everyone, I didnt spend the money on 3 hd projectors, screen, eyefinity graphincs, 16'x8' screen...... just to stay in my ship FOREVER. While some my not like this epansion, they are usualy the ones that don't understand the difference between a SIMULATION and a GAME. EVE IS A REAL PLACE, although it is a place that only exists in virtual space ( look it up if you don't know what that is ) it still exists none the less. Those complaining arte also usualy the ones that were complaining virtual reality doesnt exist yet back in the day. GUESS WHAT it DOES exist, its just not presant in YOUR concept of what a virtual reality should be. Its called EVE ONLINE and other simulations like it. CCP keep up the excelent work as you progress twards your vision of what EVE is ment to be. You sir are an idiot. The majority of complaints (and certainly all mine) have been about HOW they implement Incarna, not WHETHER they implement Incarna. I don't normally comment as I am not especially good at it... But the number of spelling mistakes in your post is spectacular... This makes you sound like a mindless ranting idiot... The content confirms it... Please try harder in future. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Kara Kaprica Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:33:00 - [115] the fact that you dont have to take part in it, mean thats your crying is pointless. it doesnt affect your gameplay, but it may entice new players to eve, which will make your gameplay better.
Rui Morin	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:34:00 - [116] Originally by: Jaak 242 I also don't remember saying anything about Incarna sucking, and, when I checked my post, I find I was correct. If you check your post you will find you referred to Incarna as a "monstrosity" which would seem to indicate that you didn't like it, giving me the impression you felt Incarna sucked. Good to see you have taken a more balanced view now.
Gallinari	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:36:00 - [117] What they are trying to do is make everyone happy which is an impossible task. Go onto ANY MMO forum and you will find the same thing... Wow players cried about Vanilla, then they cried about BC, then they cried about Wrath, then they cried about Cata...blah blah blah. They just need to implement new features to bring on new players, yet keep enough of the 'minority' players happy so they keep subscribing...This is a business.
Mantrella	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:36:00 - [118] LOL! this comming from some noob in eve university, gotta love dem noobs! I agree with AthlonJedi, Eve is ment to be a simulation , not a game, and if Incarna furthers this vision with a more imersive environment, its only logical they continue to develop thier vision in this manner.
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:37:00 - [119] Edited by: Benri Konpaku on 21/06/2011 14:37:17 Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! Most people are strongly against two things: 1) Forced CQ view with no option to disable it - This can be solved by placing an optional hangar view in place like the old one without loading the CQ part of the environment. Or at the very least keeping the option to not load the CQ environment altogether. 2) Use of crippled Physx and all related limitations for non-Nvidia users - This can be solved by actually using Multithreading for software Physx among many other improvements CCP can implement to boost performance for other brands of graphics cards. Otherwise everyone and their mother will assume CCP is in Nvidia's pocket and is trying to force their player base to buy Nvidia using cheap tricks like those Nvidia has used on all the other Phyxs games. Edit : And one more: 3) Potential for P2W due to microtransactions - As long as CCP keeps their word not to MT anything other than vanity items this shouldn't be much of an issue in the long run. TL;DR Most players either don't care about Incarna's first motel room (and will disable it if possible) or were looking forward to it until the Physx thing. But I doubt you didn't know about all of this already.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:39:00 - [120] Originally by: Zora'e LOL again, nice try (if you ARE in fact a women and not a guy pretending to be a RL female player, congratulations for playing EVE, not many women do.) Not many baboons play EVE either, and yet here you are. This is still just a computer game and there are more women playing computer games than your brain might imagine. This just happens to be a sandbox MMO with flying spaceships. Quote: My opinion and statement is based on experiencing CQ first hand, at present it is an utter failure due to the WAY ccp is implementing it. Your opinion, yes. What you fail to realise is that your opinion only speaks for yourself and is not a fact. CQ is a complex matter and, as has been stated previously, there are many different layers to it than just "like" or "dislike". Someone might like one aspect but dislike another, someone else might dislike all of it and yet another might like all of it. Quote: CCP Implemented a 'feature' that realistically, adds virtually nothing to current game mechanics within the stations themselves CCP is adopting a viewpoint that in layman terms is called "casing the joint". For instance, if you are a bank robber - although I hope you aren't - you might go to the bank a few days before you planned to rob it. You would look around the bank and observe security guards, cameras and other obstacles, so you could plan how to avoid capture or death during the burglary. What CCP is doing is simply adding a feature that has been talked about for many years and from there observe how things proceed. Should it prove not to be satisfactory they will simply take a step back and evaluate what needs to be improved and/or changed. Quote: CCP has consistently refused to even ACKNOWLEDGE player suggestions and concerns over the way they are implementing CQ, You mean they have refused to acknowledge YOUR concerns. That is not the same thing and is merely a hyperbolic statement poorly disguised as a fact. Quote: I will most likely quit playing eve and move on to something else... if I can find anything else that actually holds my interest for more than two weeks anyway. There is good medicine available for people with a low attention span and similar hyperdeficit disorders. I suggest you investigate this matter once you've quit EVE and moved on. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ

Wrinkle Reducer	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:40:00 - [121] Have they fixed it yet? have they fixed it yet? have they fixed it .......YET?
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:45:00 - [122] The concept of incarna is actually pretty cool, and i imagine most would welcome it, if CCP hadn't made such a **ing mess of the code... They had an awesome engine and design, the thing was complete enough to show us tech demos and everyone went "AWESOME". Then they scrapped the entire thing and wrote their own engine, using the most inefficient code possible, then stuck a big sticker on it say "lolmultiboxers". Ontop of the ridiculous optimization (or lack thereof), they didn't even complete the task at hand, instead only giving us one room, one race. Constant promises of "it won't change eve if you don't want to use it" were put out there, only to be dashed with "If you don't want to use it, stare at this pretty picture until we remove the option". Seriously, i hope that option is going to stay there until you get at least 50% better performance from your **ty, 16 year old coders engine.
Garrrd	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:48:00 - [123] You guys are aware that the same buttons and way you do things now can still be done in CQ right? Also, the amount of self-entitlement in this thread is outstanding. Keep up the good work.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:48:00 - [124] Originally by: Jaak 242 Less than 5% of the players in the game are women. You don't really expect us to believe you, do you? Who's "us"? You and your multiple personalities perhaps? That would explain your constant poor choice of wording and flawed opinions contradicting itself in every post you make. In any case, I don't give a damn what you believe. Anyone can pull arbitrary numbers out of a hat. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Isha Steel	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:49:00 - [125] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Jaak 242 Less than 5% of the players in the game are women. You don't really expect us to believe you, do you? Who's "us"? You and your multiple personalities perhaps? That would explain your constant poor choice of wording and flawed opinions contradicting itself in every post you make. In any case, I don't give a damn what you believe. Anyone can pull arbitrary numbers out of a hat. I think he means the EvE community that he is clearly the spokesperson for... oh wai...
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:52:00 - [126] Originally by: Rui Morin Originally by: Jaak 242 I also don't remember saying anything about Incarna sucking, and, when I checked my post, I find I was correct. If you check your post you will find you referred to Incarna as a "monstrosity" which would seem to indicate that you didn't like it, giving me the impression you felt Incarna sucked. Good to see you have taken a more balanced view now. O.o Just work on your reading comprehension. Please. Forget about games for a while.
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:58:00 - [127] I love the ambition of Incarna and am interested in seeing where it goes when actual gameplay is added, but my fear is purely performance. Both computers in my home choked and died on the character creator. UI lag is one those nails-on-chalkboard irritations in games to me, but building a new PC just isn't in my budget this year (even if it's chump change to most players). So for the moment, I know there will be a downside to all the new graphics, but the upside possibilities (and gameplay) seem to still be all in the future patch cycles. I don't like casting myself as the stick-in-the-mud holding back the new shiny tech, so I'm not opposed to Incarna, I'm just a little useasy about the short-term potential to drag down my game experience.
Sellendis Caldari The Ares project	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:59:00 - [128] Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Sellendis Originally by: Isha Steel Originally by: Josie Grosie I was actually looking forward to Incarna and what walking in stations would add to the game. I just don't think now is the time for it to be implemented. Surely the flying in space part should be fixed before the walking in stations part is introduced. If they did that we'd all die of old age before Incarna came out! How about fixing current problems first, not adding new ones? Currently CQ is a car with only 1 wheel on, and dragster fuel consumption. People are not against incarna, they are against mostly useless CQ. Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles. "Those of us that tested it didn't find CQ worth our CPU/GPU cycles." is quite the sweeping statement seeing as I tested it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience (especially as it ran for me at 1650X1080, max settings on an aging core2duo with a 3 year old ATI graphics card with a framerate above 40fps). Yes their are features that need fixing but every step like this every iteration brings EvE closer to what I want it to be, and just like you I care little about YOUR opinion. See where you get by not reading. Testing is one thing, forcing you to use it is another. So you like walking to your sofa every time you dock to change ammo or buy something on the market, then walking back to the ship to undock? How long is that gonna be fun for you? New game room that is currently less functional than old UI, not to mention slower to navigate then usual neocom. That is your idea of improvement? And this is a way you wanna Eve to go? Not fixing imbalances that have been here for years? Just adding a barbie doll and a mirror? I dont have performance problems in CQ its running 40-60fps. But as other players already tested, it maxes your CPU/VGA for less functionality than before. Fine. Can i have the option to not use it? Why of course, here is a rusty metal plate. What about hangar view? Lets quote CCP on that "fu.ck hangar view", they might as well said so, couse they are keeping quiet form the day one we asked.
Jaak 242	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:01:00 - [129] Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Jaak 242 Less than 5% of the players in the game are women. You don't really expect us to believe you, do you? Who's "us"? You and your multiple personalities perhaps? That would explain your constant poor choice of wording and flawed opinions contradicting itself in every post you make. In any case, I don't give a damn what you believe. Anyone can pull arbitrary numbers out of a hat. Originally by: Jaak 242 O.o Just work on your reading comprehension. Please. Forget about games for a while. And I do care what you believe. It gives me a kind of a guideline.
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:06:00 - [130] 1: Originally by: Aderata Nonkin Originally by: Zora'e LOL again, nice try (if you ARE in fact a women and not a guy pretending to be a RL female player, congratulations for playing EVE, not many women do.) Not many baboons play EVE either, and yet here you are. This is still just a computer game and there are more women playing computer games than your brain might imagine. This just happens to be a sandbox MMO with flying spaceships. 2: Quote: My opinion and statement is based on experiencing CQ first hand, at present it is an utter failure due to the WAY ccp is implementing it. Your opinion, yes. What you fail to realise is that your opinion only speaks for yourself and is not a fact. CQ is a complex matter and, as has been stated previously, there are many different layers to it than just "like" or "dislike". Someone might like one aspect but dislike another, someone else might dislike all of it and yet another might like all of it. 3: Quote: CCP Implemented a 'feature' that realistically, adds virtually nothing to current game mechanics within the stations themselves CCP is adopting a viewpoint that in layman terms is called "casing the joint". For instance, if you are a bank robber - although I hope you aren't - you might go to the bank a few days before you planned to rob it. You would look around the bank and observe security guards, cameras and other obstacles, so you could plan how to avoid capture or death during the burglary. What CCP is doing is simply adding a feature that has been talked about for many years and from there observe how things proceed. Should it prove not to be satisfactory they will simply take a step back and evaluate what needs to be improved and/or changed. 4: Quote: CCP has consistently refused to even ACKNOWLEDGE player suggestions and concerns over the way they are implementing CQ, You mean they have refused to acknowledge YOUR concerns. That is not the same thing and is merely a hyperbolic statement poorly disguised as a fact. 5: Quote: I will most likely quit playing eve and move on to something else... if I can find anything else that actually holds my interest for more than two weeks anyway. There is good medicine available for people with a low attention span and similar hyperdeficit disorders. I suggest you investigate this matter once you've quit EVE and moved on. 1: My wife plays MMO's, in fact she even played EVE for a while. However in my experience with MMO's like EVE, there are fewer women that play them than in other MMO's such as or like Everquest, EQ 2, Wow etc. Again, I base my statements off of experience. Not wishful thinking. Lets skip past the name calling and try to have a reasonable conversation. 2: If I view how CCP is rolling WiS out as a failure, I view this based on my years of experience as a gamer, and watching the way different companies have rolled out expansions, and the end results of the way they did it. Frankly, I LIKE the idea of WiS. I DISLIKE the way CCP is going about it, which is in direct contradiction to what and how they STATED it would be. 3: Again as I stated before, I am not AGAINST WiS. I really do see the potential it has. I am just against HOW CCP is implementing it contrary to their statements concerning it. 4: No I mean they have flat out refused to even acknowledge MULTIPLE threads by multiple people, who have tested it on SISI and have voiced their concerns about it repeatedly in the Test Server section of the forums, as well as in GD, concerning how they are rolling it out. Not just MY concerns. ergo: A fact. 5: I don't suffer from either of those problems, however I do find most of the current MMO's to be exceptionally boring and easy when compared to EVE. This is one of the reasons I love EVE so much. It's complicated, has surprising depth and so many different options for game play. Incarna might add to this eventually, but presently fails to deliver. -

Ghurthe	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:07:00 - [131] As long as CCP doesn't remove the old UI entirely I'll be happy. If I'm ever forced to walk around station and talk to my agents, or walk to some NPC to access the market, I'll probably just quit playing eve all together. I don't play Eve to walk around and talk to NPCs I play eve to enjoy rich pvp and pve with quite a bit of interesting interconnectivity. As it stands CCP has mauled sov warfare, unbalanced capital ship warfare, systematically marred running level 5s as reasonable viable except for the most blitzable missions, normalized 0.0, and made low sec nearly irrelevant. Now, do I trust them not to screw up docking in a station? Not really. But CCP please don't eventually force us to load the internal station. Many players do not have the super awesome computers to run incarna, especially not with multiple clients and having to run around in station to interact with things... well if I want that I'll just go play Star Trek Online.
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:14:00 - [132] Originally by: Garrrd You guys are aware that the same buttons and way you do things now can still be done in CQ right? You are aware that much longer loading times, and massive drops in performance are still in CQ right? Thats right, it wasn't cos it was a beta, it's because CCP are **** at coding.
Rui Morin	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:28:00 - [133] Originally by: Jaak 242 Originally by: Rui Morin Originally by: Jaak 242 I also don't remember saying anything about Incarna sucking, and, when I checked my post, I find I was correct. If you check your post you will find you referred to Incarna as a "monstrosity" which would seem to indicate that you didn't like it, giving me the impression you felt Incarna sucked. Good to see you have taken a more balanced view now. O.o Just work on your reading comprehension. Please. Forget about games for a while. Try typing sense.
Slymah Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:32:00 - [134] The folks QQing about Incarnia being released are the same people that would be QQing if CCP wasn't working on "walking in stations". complainers complain
JMERCENARY	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:41:00 - [135] Edited by: JMERCENARY on 21/06/2011 15:43:54 Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? What with the rest of the humanity that wants progress? What, with all this unrealised potential of new players and new ventures and game philosophy? That's what humans do. THEY EVOLVE! The rest is history.. Yeah, and what is it with that tiny insignificant spec of minority that wants to return back to the caves? They are free to do so as they are free to realise they might be playing the wrong game...
Joe Skellington Minmatar Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:45:00 - [136] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: CCP Guard Group hug! IT'S A TRAP! OUR CRUISERS CANT REPEL FIREPOWER OF THAT MAGNITUDE!
Zora'e Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:47:00 - [137] Edited by: Zora''e on 21/06/2011 15:47:46 Originally by: JMERCENARY THEY EVOLVE! The rest is history.. Evolution is a LIE foisted off on the masses by the Godless scum of New Eden. The Amarr, the only ones left in this universe that adhere to the one Truth shall purge the Godless from new Eden! /end fail attempt at RP -
Twist RimWalker Auduin Figther Command	Posted - 2011.06.21 15:51:00 - [138] I'm glad ccp is paving the way for incarna and dust! Looking forward to great times, and I know many that thinks the same. It's hard whining bout something your happy with :P
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:02:00 - [139] Change is good. I plan to spend some of this weekend, sitting on my couch, watching me, sit on my couch. Pretty meta.
Spc One Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:11:00 - [140] Edited by: Spc One on 21/06/2011 16:11:26 Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! I think incarna and walking in stations is very good. The problem is that when we dock we go directly to captain's quarters. I would do it in a different way: 1. User docks into normal station environment (can spin his ship around) like it was now. 2. If he wants to go to captain's quarters he clicks a button on left or right like fitting service and CQ environment loads up. I think this is a better concept. ____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A

Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:11:00 - [141] No. They should know better. (The players) Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
Hairy Sue	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:15:00 - [142] Originally by: Spc One The problem is that when we dock we go directly to captain's quarters. I would do it in a different way: 1. User docks into normal station environment (can spin his ship around) like it was now. 2. If he wants to go to captain's quarters he clicks a button on left or right like fitting service and CQ environment loads up. I think this is a better concept. But....BUT....BUT.... but that would be a simple concept that would keep ALL players happy. Everyone! CCP would never do that.
Sybertank Bellmont	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:20:00 - [143] All the people who whine about these changes.......... All the people who said they would quit EVE........... The servers seem to still have the same old usual traffic of players, if you don't like EVE anymore, then just leave. Just like all your freinds after the Agents were revamped, null was nerfed, DED sites were evened out....you know when the thousands of mad players left EVE, oh wait a minute, you are still here...
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:14:00 - [144] Originally by: Mantrella LOL! this comming from some noob in eve university, gotta love dem noobs! I agree with AthlonJedi, Eve is ment to be a simulation , not a game, and if Incarna furthers this vision with a more imersive environment, its only logical they continue to develop thier vision in this manner. yes at 3 1/4 yrs old (main) I am a total noob with only 53 mill sp... The implementation of CQ makes it less immersive. If their vision makes people quit, then our concerns are very much there's... which would be why they ask for our opinions. Nothing about eve being a simulation is incompatible with keeping the hanger and having CQ an option after docking. In fact that is much more believable, Immersive, and better design. It's also what they promised it would be like. So I go back to my original point... You are both idiots. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Admiral Risalo	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:17:00 - [145] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? so far ive seen only 2 people who hate this expansion, like it or not, for every one who hates this expansion before even seeing it, there are a thousand more who cant wait
Mike Staple	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:33:00 - [146] Edited by: Mike Staple on 21/06/2011 17:35:15 Originally by: impli Incarna is a good expansion, because it's the beginning of the end vision, where eve goes. EVE is not just internet space ships it wants to be a FULL science fiction MMPOG. So yes I am for incarna and future expansions like incarna. I am looking forward to meet my "EVE" Friends in Bars and drink quafe. Who don't want to interact in station should move to 0.0 and shoot people in a face. If you want this why you just don't play 2nd Life? I dislike direction where CCP and EVE heading for. Vanila items sold for real $ to show up, is real behind motion for Incarna. 10 out of 15 people in my corporation will gladly use "don't load CQ feature". Threating us with future removing of "feature to turn it off" is bad. I spend already enough real $ on EVE so you will not see any $ from me for useless vanity items. If I want new jacket I will go out and buy it in my RL. +1 in count of Incarna haters. It only hog my CPU/GPU and RAM for nothing. It has negative impact on my enjoy in EVE. BTW go out and drink with friends real beer it is way much better than do it with bits in your computer.
HactionGuy Wim	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:34:00 - [147] EVE 2014 - On a planet killing 8 boars for a guild quest.
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Fearsome Engine	Posted - 2011.06.24 07:43:00 - [148] Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? You are assuming that the few vocal whining idiots on the forum are somehow representative of the majority of the player base. If I recall correctly, the number of players who post on the forums is around the 5-7% mark, of which probably 10-20% are unhappy with the idea of Incarna. Now I am aware that the 10-20% figure is only an extremely rough estimate based on the number of threads made that are against Incarna, and the subsequent unique players who posted in agreement in those threads, but the 5-7% figure was from CCP, so I feel comfortable in saying that most people do not share such a negative view. TL;DR There are a few highly vocal dissenters who are, realistically speaking, vastly out numbered by those who are either neutral toward, or in support of Incarna. you can't make this statement for exactly the same reason that people claiming a majority hate incarna... you don't have the figures. Also you can't extrapolate from the self selecting few that post on the forums to those that don't. which means the majority of people on the forums could love or hate Incarna, and the majority of the player base could have the opposite opinion. If 10~20% of the forum dwellers do indeed dislike this implementation of incarna, and that percentage is played across the rest of EVE, then you are talking about between 1 in 10 and 1 in 5 players who would be happier with an option to disembark upon docking rather than mandatory CQ... Seeing as that option doesn't hurt those that don't care about it, why not please the 10~20% of people you guess do care? Actually I can extrapolate. For a start the 5-7% figure was stated by CCP not me, which is NOT 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 people. Then there is the fact that if you hate something but don't speak up then you will be considered neutral or in favour of something, just as it is with real life elections. The thing with claiming that everyone is angry and that you speak for them all, is that it doesn't work. Really angry people rarely stay quiet, and the lack of tens of thousands of really angry people just helps prove my point. On the flip side, saying that most people don't seem to care about something is MUCH easier to back up due to the lack of people showing up to protest something. Don't misunderstand me however, I am fully in support of having the option to disable the new Captains Quarters, not just temporarily as it stands right now, but permanently. Everyone should be able to get what they want out of this, customers on both sides of the fence and CCP. I just hate seeing people claiming that just because they personally do not like something, that EVERYONE else shares that sentiment. It is the height of arrogance and ignorance to assume such a thing. Originally by: Urban Dictionary Bro we just got monocled by CCP
Lucrezia Romanova	Posted - 2011.06.24 07:55:00 - [149] Edited by: Lucrezia Romanova on 24/06/2011 08:04:22 I am not against Incarna. I am against the business model that came with it. I am against forcing Incarna content on players that do not want it. I am against being treated like as a customer. But I am a hopeless optimist as well. Or was it a pessimist, oh heck.. some kind of issimist.
glepp	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:01:00 - [150] Originally by: CCP Guard What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know. So what you're saying is that you don't do market research before implementing major change? If you CBA to do that, at least listen to the CSM. Stop being ****ing amateurs.

Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:03:00 - [151] I am not anti-Incarna. I do think the old hanger should have been left as an option at least for a while and for those with lower spec systems. I like CQ. I think it is a good first step into a physical non ship environment. I am against the Noble exchange / MT shop part of the Incarna expansion. Just stop. Please. Remove it now and I promise we will never speak of it again.
Dante Marcellus Minmatar Nightmare Brigade	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:07:00 - [152] Honestly, I think you'd have to be pretty close-minded to not embrace Incarna. Sure, there are things that need working out, but we can't keep living in the past, less we'd like to dwindle into dust and become nothing. No pun intended. And if you're reading this, you've fallen into a signature trap. You owe me 1m ISK.
Antihrist Pripravnik Scorpion Road Industry	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:23:00 - [153] I'm not in anti-Incarna mood, but what they've released is not Incarna. It's the first step and all that mumbo-jumbo. But one thing happened that I've feared for a long time, in fact ever since Empyrean Age (Factional warfare expansion for those who were not here back then). I'm talking about a rushed expansion that will make the game unplayable, unpleasant and massively degrade the experience to the point where it's questionable if I'd like to stay in EVE or not. After throwing FW upon us, they've only added LP store as a good move. A lot of hard core FW players are still complaining about the defense mechanics for a system and that was not addressed. Apocrypha returned hope. It was an expansion that was done almost flawlessly, but some major issues stayed in the game for a long time: like changing subsystems on a POS and the outdated POS system ("Flogging the dead horse" thread in Assembly Hall). The expansion itself was good, but bugs or lack of features from the previous period of time showed their ugly face after a while. Then came Dominion and new sov mechanics and solar system development. Half finished Dominion changed pretty much nothing in the amount of space one alliance can profitably hold. Not to mention that instead of "POS warfare" it only switched to "SBU/I-HUB + POS warfare". One element was good, though... systems could be upgraded to provide PvE content and that was killed with no alternative put in place. I think that only CCP BDO once posted a devblog saying that they are working on replacing anomalies with plexes, which is a great alternative, but I don't know if those changes ever got implemented. Tyrannis and Planetary interaction was next. The horrible initial implementation of the whole PI system led to many broken computer peripherals and painful wrists. They took their time on fixing it but the planetary interaction is still very far away from being useful or functional. The initial ability to reprocess POS modules killed the whole expansion even before people could see what's PI all about. It was rushed and failed big time. And we got to Incarna now - an ALPHA preview of a single room that overheats even the newest most powerful hardware and manages to fail to get over 10 FPS on computers that can run other good looking games with 30-40 FPS. Not only that they've degraded performance, but they've managed to degrade experience to the point where I feeling sick to log in and play the game while staring at the static image of doors. I was here when we had multiple station interiors per race. Then they've updated to Trinity engine and placed only one interior per race. Now we have a single non functioning performance eating room that is only remotely usable on low settings where it looks truly horrible. Rushed expansion deployment time killed the only working alternative that is acceptable - keeping the old hangar as an option. So, instead of multiple station interiors per race many players got down to a single static image of Minmatar hangar doors. I'm not against Incarna, I'm against rushed expansions that will one day bring to TQ one that would kill it. Incarna, the version deployed now, is pretty much the closest one that fits that description. And don't forget that on top of this abomination of an expansion, we still have old problems that date back from Empyrean Age. [Petition] Make entry into CQ and Incarna optional.
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:47:00 - [154] Edited by: Zagdul on 24/06/2011 08:48:32 Originally by: CCP Guard In relation to the thread subject; What is the number of "anti Incarna players"? We don't know because it's hard to measure obviously. For many reasons. For example; how many just don't like changes of this magnitude to a world they are pretty content with already? And how many actually oppose 3D character environments for EVE? How many feel Incarna is fine but that we should do other stuff first? How many don't opppose the direction, but simply disagree with some of the design angles? There are many different opinions out there. Not just "for" and "against". One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out and we've worked through any initial wrinkles (as if those ever happen...). We realize we're making various significant changes to a world that you are a part of and we have complete and utter respect for the fact that Incarna is not without skeptics. But we also have great faith in Incarna and feel it's a necessary step on our journey. And we're also pretty confident that the general consensus will line up, or we wouldn't be doing this. At this point...all any of us can do is hang tight and see how it goes :). I know you'll keep us posted on what you think, and we'll do our best to react to your feedback. Group hug! Put a flag in for how many people have disabled CQ. People have been waiting 5+? years for "Incarna". This is what we've been handed: A room we can walk around in. Yes, I'm sure the work you guys put into it seems like a lot, but the players have been waiting far too long for a f^&kin room. Turrets. Cool, for about 3 minutes. I've got guys in my alliance who could have developed this over a weekend. I'm not knocking the fact that they aren't p fukkin cool, but yeah... not impressed. Some fixed bugs from the backlog, but the broken sh!t (cynos working in jammed systems for example) out weighs the stuff "fixed". Now, typical story fixing the fixes... Arum... get f$#ked. you're disconnecting yourself from the people who are funding your potential future. If you want "Cash Cows" and people to rake money in from... develop a cheap, witty and inventive game THAT DOESN'T EFFECT YOUR LOYAL PLAYERS! Make a browser based game that is ALL arum and integrates with EVE but doesn't have a direct effect on YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS. There are 2 ways to get customers. Advertising - expensive and temporary. Word of Mouth - Customers for life. Which do you think EVE was created from?
Rextard Kuha	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:49:00 - [155] Originally by: CCP Guard One thing is for sure, we will get a change to learn more about what you guys think after everyone has tried Incarna out The whole 2 minutes that took...
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2011.06.24 08:51:00 - [156] Originally by: Jaak 242 It doesn't seem so to me. Was I mistaken in thinking that MMORPG developers were interested in keeping the existing players happy? I guess that a more basic and interesting question is: Does anyone know what percentage of existing players are actually pushing for this monstrosity? The more interesting question is, Should the 30 ****tards and their alts that are raising all the stink in the last few days in any way influence any decision CCP might make? I know the answer to that one. Do you? Mr Epeen


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There are 2 ways to get customers.