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Kainulf Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 - [451] Edited by: Kainulf on 26/06/2011 19:38:47 Let's get this commitment to "no gold-ammo, ever" into the EULA, shall we CSM? "Noise in the channel." "Very predictable feedback." 4000+ subscriptions cancelled Major trade hubs locked down STAY THE COURSE
Garrance	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 - [452] Originally by: Wearfield CCP!! You already know how we feel, it's all over the internet. Meeting with CSM achieves nothing. Sure it does, it allows them to give us the silent treatment (he says as much FFS!) for another WEEK or MORE. As others have said you do not need to fly the damn CSM to iceland and make us wait. If you indeed need to talk to them to understand our issues (despite the hundreds of pages of us telling you) then do it by skype. Or isn't making all of us WAIT of concern? Or is it the POINT?
Republica Winder Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 - [453] Originally by: GATORAN Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!! WTF! Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it. This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT. CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us. The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE. Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is. They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats. As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic. If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 - [454] Originally by: MC187 looks like a carefully crafted blog to me. no wonder it took PR so long. Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes. Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy. The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session. classic delay/diversion tactic. announce an emergency meeting to quell some of the playerbase. no answers to anything directly nor touch other issues at this time. Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all. counterquote from page 9 of fearless: Quote: CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna? In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details. so which is it? Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view. We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason. We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context. You simply chose not to hear it. And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation. You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled. And you couldn't have made it easier. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 - [455] Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 19:40:38 Originally by: Malka Badi'a I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet. Or you can stop posting it and accept the fact that they have picked a slang term and put it in quotes, which gives them two levels of fudge factor. Clarity and specificity is what's needed here, and that is not it. If that is indeed what they mean, then it will be trivial to post and say so in no unclear terms and remove the doubt that some people are having. There is absolutely no reason not to do so. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 - [456] I have this novel, NEVER heard before question for Zulu: Will aurum items move beyond non-vanity items? ALL aurum items and FOREVER? Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Kraxalious	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 - [457] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: J Kunjeh Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning. No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums. Telling someone to "Die in a fire" is the modern equivalent telling someone to **** off it's no more a threat telling someone to go F themselves. As such unbanning Helicity makes perfect sense. I also think that Liang should be unbanned as well as anyone else who was banned for the leaks. Doing so would go a long way to diffusing some of the tempers that are running high and would cost CCP nothing. "Die in a fire" is akin to them telling us "gold ammo"
Akara Ito Amarr Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 - [458] Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here DE RU So you're gonna talk to the CSM, tell them to **** off, tell them they cant speak about that because of NDA, and then tell the community "CSM agreed" ?
Mzee Machado	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [459] Edited by: Mzee Machado on 26/06/2011 19:44:24 This is unsatisfactory. However, let's be creative and try to save your wallets and our need for immersion? How about creating a virtual banking system? I love to fly my spaceship, but I also recognize your need to make money. The EVE community is as complex as can be and needs some mechanism to control the economy better than today. The influx of PLEX is a liability, while AUR does not solve your need for cash. If the prices had been a fraction of what they currently are, it could work as a temporary fix. Either AUR goes or PLEX does. Either way, we need an in-game bank to create larger economic possibilities both in-game and RL. For those of you having read Charles Stross Halting state an in-game bank has its problems as well, but it is a brilliant concept. We, as players, are interested in investing real money into virtual property and security. Even for game-changing objects if they are a plausible part of a storyline, e.g. a prototype blueprint with DUST514 tech or weapons or whatever. It is necessary to balance the vanity of RL money and in-game skills. A great pilot is never going to submit to a noob. A great industrialist will always have much influence. Provided their experience and time invested is honoured, no problem with seeing a looser buy a battleship and rent a pilot to bring a floating corpse back. Skillpoint sale? No. Jove spaceships for AUR? No. Those investing countless of hours and ultimately making you successful must be safe in their knowledge that they can keep their sandbox evolving to a real virtual society according to their interest. EVE is similar to the outside in its need for a better economic framework. The similarity end where I in EVE can shoot someone in the face. I do not do that RL. How are we podpilots going to be able to trade and interact with other MMOs in-game when there are different rules and not the least differently sized economies in each and everyone? We produce stuff and can offer great logistic support. Our services include superior firepower. How can CCP earn money utilizing our skills? How can we walk in-station and planetside without bleeding out of our ears or having our experience of immersion shattered? A bank system can lower the imbalance between different economies. A bank earn money by their services and are powerful instruments in world economy. Since we live in a virtual society, our banks can be better than real life banks even. Not sc***ing us over at every opportunity I mean, risking our assets on hair-brained schemes. There are probably players that are ready to step up and assume the roles of managers. With guns of course. Let me invest in development. I don't need much back, just some interest on my investment and the security that my assets are safe. Heck, I'd pay real money for in-station services offering cyborg implants so that I could walk normal while we wait for the grunts. Maharaba
Cyriel Longinus Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [460] Originally by: CCP Zulu I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. Thanks you, those are a good choice of words. Sincere. Human. Happy to be making steps in a familiar direction ... forward, to make EVE and CCP's strategy a mutually rewarding success. [Cy + blog] This song sums up my current feelings about NeX.

Katra Novac	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [461] We already know non-vanity items must have been on the table for the MT shop otherwise they could have just gave an answer almost as quickly as the Sony saga. So is it a 'U' turn or are they seeking a compromise with the CSMs. I'm not convinced either. I'll stay unsubscribed, see what the CSM fiasco dredges up.
Molten Black Omber Company Knights of the Rising Phoenix	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [462] You let Eve burn for 3 days and stood back and watched the flames when you could have posted that blog in the first 5 minutes. Something is wrong here.
Hikuri Ssuvienne	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [463] Thanks for the blog Zulu. As a new player who just recently discovered this unique game, I've followed the developments after Incarna with some considerable alarm. From my chair some of the vitriol slung at CCP has been excessive and out of line, while some has been fair and well thought out. I think much of this could have been avoided with a faster responce, but at least bridges are being mended so everyone can get back to internet spaceships. Personally I've got no issues with MT for vanity items, but it's good to see that non-vanity items are not on the cards. I'll look forward to hearing how the CSM meeting goes.
Republica Winder Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 - [464] CCP, you don't need to bother with the time or expense of meeting with the CSM in Iceland. Nothing you can do is going to placate the masses OR save the tens of thousands of subscribers you have already lost until you understand the following and react accordingly: WE DO NOT WANT RMT IN EVE.
Doctor Deals	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:41:00 - [465] GOLD IS A COLOR AND AN ELEMENT! GOLD DOES NOT MEAN MICROTRANSACTIONS! SAYING "GOLD" ONLY DILUTES YOUR RESPONSE
Xander Hunt Minmatar Dead Rats Tell No Tales	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:41:00 - [466] Originally by: Malka Badi'a EVE Community. I am disappointed in how little faith you had in a company that some of you have been with for seven years, and how you allowed your groupthink to overpower your ability to use formal logic and deduction regarding what may be opinion and what may be debate. But, you have my undying respect for showing passion, and love, for the game that many of us hold dear. Its RW corporate propaganda that we're seeing here, not Zulu or Zinfadel (or however you spell his name) that are doing this DIRECTLY. (I admit, I posted that I wanted Zinfadel fired, but only because I hate the kind of job he's in, and how he tries to execute it so well. Its not about him, its about how things have changed in the past 6 months alone) I have little to no faith in ANY company (including the one I work for) that has investors, as investors want nothing more than more money. With all seriousness, they'll push the boundries to get monies in, and when it dries up, walk away knowing they made a profit. Its taken a few years for CCP to get to the point where investors are ... instigating and trying to enforce ideas to get more RW monies out of the system, be it due to borrowing for dev'n of Dust or whatever. Monetary-Investors suck the life out of a game (or anything) faster than a shop-vac sucks up water. Investors have passion for money, not passion for the game and its mechanics. The only investors I have any patience for are the people who invest non-monetary ideals into something, such as passion, wisdom, intelligence, time, ideas, love, hate, interest. Its no wonder Jita and Amarr are on fire as we, the players, are so invested in this game, we don't want to see the mechanics change. We, the players, are investors as well, CCP. Money may make things work, but we're what makes all of this worth while, not money.
Iden Secundus	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 - [467] Why should we believe you? You did lie us. Your task is to lie us. So you are lying us Trust? How? Why?
Ranita Drell	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 - [468] Edited by: Ranita Drell on 26/06/2011 19:43:17 The right response from CSM would be: "We will meet with CCP to discuss concerns regarding Incarna only after CCP publicly recommits to a stand against selling non-vanity items via microtransactions. Everything else may be negotiable; this is not."
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [469] We will watch what you do not what you say. You did not commit to no mt for advantage when the question is of the most dire importance. You think you are buying time but we will ensure our actions continue. We are eve We do not forgive We do not forget Expect us
Vincentus	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [470] Edited by: Vincentus on 26/06/2011 19:44:39 Well, I'm glad you guys finally made a serious commitment to communicate with your customers, and from the tone of your blog I feel like you people have finally realized you have a serious problem on your hands. I am worried about the wording of the gold ammo sentence, as it seems to me that it is obvious that it would have been a lot easier and clearer if you had just said non-vanity items. Inviting the CSM gives me hope however, and I sincerely hope you listen to them. It's in your own interest... I have 8 days of subscription left, so you have until then to convince me of your good intentions. I will cease protesting and posting here, but please realize I'm not going to make an effort to get the message through again, and that if you screw up again I'm gone without saying another word, and you can add another 3 accounts to the 4000 that are gone and not going to return. Best of luck, I really hope all of this works out.

Iurnan Mileghere Singularity Foundation	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [471] Good first step. Not the end, nor even the beginning of the end. Hopefully the end of the beginning. Or summat. Anyway, it's good enough for now, though we'll watch the CSM emergency summit results with great interest.
lceman Gallente Quam Singulari Session Changes	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [472] Edited by: lceman on 26/06/2011 19:46:11 what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price. i spent close to 9 years in this game and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid *** game". If what not is, what is ?.*
Republica Winder Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [473] Originally by: Mzee Machado This is unsatisfactory. However, let's be creative and try to save your wallets and our need for immersion? How about creating a virtual banking system? I love to fly my spaceship, but I also recognize the need for The EVE community is as complex as can be and needs some mechanism to control the economy better than today. The influx of PLEX is a liability, while AUR does not solve your need for cash. If the prices had been a fraction of what they currently are, it could work as a temporary fix. Either AUR goes or PLEX does. Either way, we need an in-game bank to create larger economic possibilities both in-game and RL. For those of you having read Charles Stross Halting state an in-game bank has its problems as well, but it is a brilliant concept. We, as players, are interested in investing real money into virtual property and security. Even for game-changing objects if they are a plausible part of a storyline, e.g. a prototype blueprint with DUST514 tech or weapons or whatever. It is necessary to balance the vanity of RL money and in-game skills. A great pilot is never going to submit to a noob. A great industrialist will always have much influence. Provided their experience and time invested is honoured, no problem with seeing a looser buy a battleship and rent a pilot to bring a floating corpse back. Skillpoint sale? No. Jove spaceships for AUR? No. Those investing countless of hours and ultimately making you successful must be safe in their knowledge that they can keep their sandbox evolving to a real virtual society according to their interest. EVE is similar to the outside in its need for a better economic framework. The similarity end where I in EVE can shoot someone in the face. I do not do that RL. How are we podpilots going to be able to trade and interact with other MMOs in-game when there are different rules and not the least differently sized economies in each and everyone? We produce stuff and can offer great logistic support. Our services include superior firepower. How can CCP earn money utilizing our skills? How can we walk in-station and planetside without bleeding out of our ears or having our experience of immersion shattered? A bank system can lower the imbalance between different economies. A bank earn money by their services and are powerful instruments in world economy. Since we live in a virtual society, our banks can be better than real life banks even. Not sc***ing us over at every opportunity I mean, risking our assets on hair-brained schemes. There are probably players that are ready to step up and assume the roles of managers. With guns of course. Let me invest in development. I don't need much back, just some interest on my investment and the security that my assets are safe. Heck, I'd pay real money for in-station services offering cyborg implants so that I could walk normal while we wait for the grunts. That's why the CSM shouldn't agree to go. They are being USED AS PROPAGANDA TOOLS. If they don't realize that they are unfit to serve as our representatives anyway. That's your choice, CSM, refuse to go, or better yet, resign as a group, or be used as props and pawns. Don't fool yourselves into believing you are going to go to Iceland and achieve anything except looking like fools.
Yoshitaka Moromuo Distant Light Galactic Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [474] Originally by: Republica Winder Originally by: GATORAN Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!! WTF! Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it. This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT. CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us. The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE. Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is. They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats. As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic. If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag. No. These leaks are anything but heroic, particularly the leak of shareholders' information. The shareholders' information leak alone can cause great damage to the corporation, and was most likely leaked with clear, malicious intent. So, no.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 - [475] Originally by: Ranger 1 We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason. And a discussion they got... ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
Addrake Minmatar Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 - [476] I'll watch what you do not what you say. That being said, this will get me out of Jita for a week. I'm not opposed to micro-transactions.. I'm not even opposed to sim city in space so long as my internet:spaceships gameplay doesn't become FUBAR. P2W is the issue I'm concerned with so when you speak with the CSM you need to make it very clear that it will NEVER HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
Di Mulle	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 - [477] Apology noted, not accepted yet. I, as a lot of others, I guess, remain highly pessimistic and suspicious. Oh, and I really wonder how things will go with NDA and endless re-redacting of meeting minutes ? We need to expect results published sometime in September, or this time it will be different ?
LIOZTH Caldari Divide By Zero Emergent Dawn	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 - [478] Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 19:44:13 Originally by: Xia Long thanks for the "apologies" Zulu (not joking) but i really think waiting another week to discuss the topic "live" with the CSM is not the soultion CSM =/= EVE comunity, they represent just a small portion of it This is so true and bears repetition, well put Xia, the discussion needs to also center around the community not just the CSM. I think some sort of virtual town meeting is warranted.
Zondrail Formic Hive	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 - [479] Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 - [480] People that say the micro transactions have to be removed completely are not going to get their way.. The system is in the game, CCP is making money off of it, now its here its not going to be removed. HOWEVER! The biggest concern of the EVE community has always been that Microtransactions would influence gameplay with ship and item sales for AUR. THAT worry is now (unlike before) adressed by a dev. By telling us NO GOLDEN AMMO WILL EVER BE SOLD, CCP has made that promise. Further details of course are still pending. And be honest Selling fluff items or custom ship paints should be fine as long as the prices are reasonable. (And not as generally expensive as it is right now.) Now... ("knacks knuckles") about those optional captains quarters and hangar views --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/



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STAY THE COURSE

Will aurum items move beyond non-vanity items?

ALL aurum items and FOREVER?