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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:33:00 -
[1]
Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:33:00 -
[2]
Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 26/06/2011 19:03:53 Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 26/06/2011 18:46:23 It's extremely disappointing that CCP is unable to repeat its promise that was made to the CSM one year ago. How hard is it to simply say: "There will never be non-vanity microtransactions"?
That's all we want.
-----
Originally by: devblog there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo"
Please allow me to not belive you at all. In a part of the newsletter called "Delivering the goods: Virtual sales in Incarna",
Originally by: newsletter Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright.
They keyword is WILL. It's not "might" or "we are considering". It reads like a done deal. So allow me to call bull**** on "never have been plans to sell gold ammo".
-----
Also, "There HAVE BEEN no plans" does not mean "There WILL NOT be plans".
-----
Once again, Please repeat after me: "There will never be non-vanity MT's in Eve Online".
That's all we want you to say and you still refuse to do it. Saying that little sentence will restore the confidence, because that devblog just looks like some poor attempt at damage control. The devblog says nothing, it's totally empty. ____________________________________________ I REFUSE to watch Eve Online die without fighting.
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Darik Jita
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:34:00 -
[4]
what you do, not what you say
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Sgt Napalm
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sgt Napalm on 26/06/2011 18:40:11 Edited by: Sgt Napalm on 26/06/2011 18:36:41 "here are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum"
Thank you You could have saved the community 2 days of grief by just saying that in the first place. There are still some out-standing questions, but it appears that you are waiting for CSM to comment. That is a good thing.
Also; shout out to Mashie.
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Vhelia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Phoenus
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Phoenus on 26/06/2011 18:51:08 Edit: Too vague.
"Gold Ammo" - are you referring to pay-to-win in general, or (in typical CCP fashion) just hiding that under actually meaning >ammo<?
You mention nothing regarding PTW for non-AUR currencies (e.g. RL $$$) - is this on the cards?
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Huyai Tsukurit
Caldari Grau Foundation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Huyai Tsukurit on 26/06/2011 18:41:33 I am pleased that you are planning the meeting with the CSM this is something I knew would be a good start as throughout this there is a distinct feeling that they were being marginalised and therefore that the playerbase was being marginalised.
I am a little concerned that the comment about "golden ammo" does not fully answer the issue of game changing Macrotransactions.
Only time will tell and my fingers are crossed that the relationship between players and ccp can be repaired. Just remember that there can never be too much communication, only too little.
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Dex Ironmind
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dex Ironmind on 26/06/2011 18:58:33
We shall see what you do, but this doesn't really answer any questions. You have the CSM's ear on this. We know they have talked to you about it. You already made commitments to them. Those commitments were brought into question and you acted despite their advice. Now you want to renegotiate with a bit of SWAG (i.g., trip to Iceland)? Why not handle it via Skype and get this thing done ASAP. Don't make your community wait longer for an answer. Your community has spoken loudly and clearly. What more can the CSM say that has not already been said?
Thanks for the gesture, but we will judge you by your actions and right now, you have not acted on what your community has asked for. Remain unsubbed until we know for sure there will be no non-vanity items in the NEX store.
Dex was here.
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Otocinclus
Minmatar Project Nemesis WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:35:00 -
[10]
first page
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[11]
oh well ¡
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BeauChaotica
Odin's Ravens
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[12]
Apologies are no good to us. Still, thanks for admitting it. ------------------------------------------------
-={Court Jester to the Mentally Incapacitated}=-
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Majuan Shuo
Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 26/06/2011 18:59:00 What about "gold" ships? "gold" implants? "gold" SP unlocks that give instant SP? What about MT for faction towers?
What about Aurum for extra fittings?
This is like when you said "we have no plans" which equals "well we made plans after the fact, get used to it."
Gold is a byword we use that means "non-vanity."
Just say no to GAME ENHANCERS aka NON-VANITY ITEMS/SHIPS/you get the picture you Dalek; and we can all be happy and get along like space nerds.
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 26/06/2011 18:46:23
In a part of the newsletter called "Delivering the goods: Virtual sales in Incarna",
Originally by: newsletter Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright.
They keyword is WILL. It's not "might" or "we are considering". It reads like a done deal. So allow me to call bull**** on "never have been plans to sell gold ammo".
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[14]
NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL |
Innominate
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Innominate on 26/06/2011 18:54:32
Quote: fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
What.
Quote:
I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
More sarcasm. Nice.
Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Lies, spin, and equivocation. "Gold ammo" is a catch-all for anything affecting gameplay, and I suspect you're not using it as such here. You're being careful to not answer the primary demans which is for you to disavow all "non-vanity" items. I also don't see any promise that it won't happen in the future.
Quote:
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
"Please stop talking about this."
It's okay, CCP only hits us because they love us.
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Ratty McHardJew
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[16]
tl;dr - No Gold Ammo, Zulu's sorry for sounding smug, more details after CSM get another trip to Iceland
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Onsa Boo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[17]
Seems like your just buying for time again before you finally admit it.
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
C.
'GREED IS GOOD' - CCP 2011 (ಠ_O)
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Grimster
Reikoku Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[19]
Still nothing to say then.
_______________________________
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Vim
Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:36:00 -
[20]
And so this hopefully ends.
That so much rabble started over an internal document titled 'Gordon Gekko Edition' that clearly have one guy acting the part of Mr Gordon.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[21]
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
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Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[22]
NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 26/06/2011 18:50:11
Originally by: CPP Zulu
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
It sounds like an answer to The Big Yellow Question. I will assume that "gold ammo" is in quotes to portray it is a term of larger meaning, that being "Pay To Win Micro-Transactions". At this time I am inclined to not give this statement too much trust, the blog itself points out that has been harmed. But I am willing, for the moment, to let it stand. We will be watching, closely.
I do recognize the additional statement of "goods and services". Services could be troubling. What is a service? Is it faction standings? A service could be "not having to grind! buy some standings!" or how about those ship fittings. The word "service" implies function - if there is a functional mechanic in the sandbox to be sold via Micro-transactions, then it breaks the sandbox and is unacceptable.
The Big Yellow Question was touched by this blog, but is not nearly resolved.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Herping yourDerp on 26/06/2011 18:38:26 oh ok Tl;Dr
CSM will come to iceland and fix game for us
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Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[25]
Well, he does say "no gold ammo" and I hope and think they will stick to that. Seeing the anger a few brainstorming suggestions caused I think CCP realize that they will kill their game if they implement it.
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Dr Prometheus
Caldari Gears of Construction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[26]
So what to do with the torches and pitchforks i ordered via Aurum? Can i redeem them for PLEX? Or should i keep them stored in my CQ? - Dude where is my Charon? - |
Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[27]
It took you 6 hours to release this crock of ****? ----
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Smells Ass
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Smells Ass on 26/06/2011 18:39:52 Why didn't you say:
"We are not going to sell any Non-Vanity items in the NEX store" !!!!!!
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | in-game 'Holy Veldspar' Now /w voice |
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/06/2011 18:43:16 That is a step forward.
I hope that nothing in the NeX store ever will be compared to $1000 jeans again, oh and give us a third ship state. Flying, docked and disembarked.
ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
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I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[31]
Doesn't actually say that they will never sell pay to win items, but I guess the answer is better than nothing for now. Will have to wait and see what happens with the CSM before any final opinion is issued.
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[32]
/facepalm
-- "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Slaqer
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:37:00 -
[33]
What about other non vanity items all you talked about was gold ammo. Still not the blog we want, but at least your trying lol. |
Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[34]
nice.
mind you all you had to say to please everyone is
no money for "gold ammo" and most people would be appeased
but, extra free holiday for the csm is cool -----------------------------------------------
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[35]
Arnar,
Thank you for clarifying matters. I know from the consultations you have had with CSM that this has been a wrenching weekend.
Given the high level of passion that surrounds recent events, I know that some will be tempted to speculate about the possibility of gold ammo in the future. But realistically, nobody knows what the landscape will be years from now, and as comforting as "no gold ammo, not now, not ever" might be, I understand why you can't definitely say that.
But as we all know, it takes CCP :18months: to do anything.
With respect to the other issues of the day, I look forward to discussing them in Iceland and reporting back to the players as soon as possible. From the discussions that have already been occurring in our internal forums and on Skype, I am cautiously optimistic.
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Rixiu
The Inuits
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[36]
Seemed appropriate:
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say"
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jason Edwards on 26/06/2011 18:42:02 CSM PR MEATSHIELD TO THE RESCUE
CSM has made it quite clear that they made it very clear to CCP no non-vanity ****. Yet that fearless gold ammo came along. You will need to release all these newsletters to show a long history or terrible troll ideas. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[38]
You don't need a meeting with the CSM to know what needs fixing. You are just wasting more time.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[39]
Really? ___
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[40]
Well, it looks like there won't be non-vanity items, probably. I'm not sure if this is a u-turn, or a lack of clear communication in the first place. I suspect it may be the former, but it seems encouraging anyway.
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Tachibana Kanade
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[41]
Whats different between holding a normal civil talk in skype or something?
Time buying I call it.
Not everyone in CSM can just go out of emergency to iceland, or at least I imagine.
Cheerio
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Arleonenis
Minmatar Teladi Profit Company
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[42]
I would like to know one thing other than main issue of mt Pay to Win:
What are your plans on space part of your game? Bug fixes, fixes of long broken content like COSMOS, FW. Or will next year or two will be completly about Incarna with Super Caps everywhere and hybrids in sorry state? |
Marcus Vorenius
Task Force 42
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 26/06/2011 18:55:07
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy
That does not sound like a NO and looking at the blog title that's all I needed to know
Thanks for the update and have a nice weekend ----------------------------------------------- "The No A$$HOLE Rule" by Robert Sutton, PhD |
Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[44]
thanks for the "apologies" Zulu (not joking) but i really think waiting another week to discuss the topic "live" with the CSM is not the soultion CSM =/= EVE comunity, they represent just a small portion of it
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Belloche
Caldari Pegasus Battle Group Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Belloche on 26/06/2011 18:49:15 It is actions that Hilmar wants to see, not words. I will remain unsubbed until CCP's ACTIONS match their words. On 6/24/10 we were told, point blank, that CCP had no plans to introduce ANY type of MT whatsoever. Now we have the NEX shop. You are gathering the CSM next week when they have been telling you the whole time what needed doing. They tried to tell you BEFORE this happened. Why should we believe you now? Why?
Players have totally LOST faith and loyalty in CCP. My faith in CCP might return SoonÖ but I doubt it. |
Algathas
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[46]
I will keep my accounts unsubbed while I wait for a real answer.
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Shadow XII
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Amen brother.
CCP, due to this, I'm confident you will make the right decision. The CSM is siding with the players on this issue, IE do not make gold ammo and ships on the Nex.
Zulu has now confirmed this is rumor and speculation, and not planned implementation.
You have regained my trust... for now. But I'll be watching very closely.
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Onyx Blackman
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Onyx Blackman on 26/06/2011 18:39:05 It would be nice if they would simply answer the question that has been repeatedly asked. "Gold ammo" hardly equates to "non-vanity". |
Narcissus Tombs
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 18:40:27 So far you're pulling it right out of the PR handbook.
I'll just leave this here Linkage
Edit: And this lovely link tallying 4482 unsubbed accounts so far.
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Honsou Blackblade
Minmatar Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Mr Morita
Project Nemesis WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Mr Morita on 26/06/2011 18:40:15 SECOND PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCP, I want my epic mount that's paid for by aurum.
--------------------------------------
"The best tank terrain is that without anti-tank weapons." -Russian military doctrine. |
Lai Munnar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[52]
WTF, where are the answers?? this is BS again, GIVE ANSWERS DAMMIT
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Aranial
Gallente Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[53]
I just hope its not too late
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[54]
Sure did take long...
Assuming this: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. is a NO for non-vanity items in the NEX shop? Please rephrase into single word, no metaphors, wouldn't like to see you selling T3 battleships and T2 dreads for AUR and claim they are not ammo afterall ;)
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Tam Althor
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[55]
I still do not trust CCP to get their **** in order. I will check back every now and then to see if their actions live up to their words. Only then will I think of resubbing my accounts. I am not one of the cash cows that your CEO seems to think of the players as.
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Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[56]
No gold ammo hey?
You said no MT in eve not that long ago.
CCP are about as trustworthy as a snakeoil salesman
Lie Cheat and Steal, the new corporate standards of CCP
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[57]
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
That's a good first part of the answer everyone has been clamouring for.
But yes, we'll see ù actions before words, as others have said, and that distorted trust will take some work to straighten outà ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Gwenywell Shumuku
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 26/06/2011 18:41:28 So, we should wait a week yes? That will be DIFFICULT.
Because, for EVERYONE that read the newsletter very carefully, there are sentences in there that sound like "this will be our new policy".
So, this will be difficult, and is not over yet, as...discussing a strategy with the CSM thats, as you state, "not on the table"....well. We will see.
AND...EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE:
why are you discussing something INTERNALLY for all employees to read if IT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN ON THE TABLE. I can't understand that, from a corporate perspective. Thats as if you would discuss "how do we produce ferraris"...if YOU DONT.
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:39:00 -
[59]
Quote: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
The same is true for you CCP Zulu/Hilmar. You've broken the trust of this community and hurt many of us deeply. Say what you will, you won't be getting that trust back until your actions reflect your words.
At least, thank you for answering the million dollar question finally. Its incredibly stupid that it took you this long to simply state something like that, but at least you've now said it. However, expect us to hold you to those words. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Money for pants
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[60]
There won't be gold ammo, but not a word about silver bullets or other non-vanity items...
Also, waiting another week before addressing the issue, seriously?!?
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Resonate
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Resonate on 26/06/2011 18:40:43 Cant help but think you will just railroad P2W changes through anyway and just palm it off as the CSM's fault when the **** hits the fan.
I'll watch what you do and not listen to what you say.
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DaRuLe
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[63]
I volunteer to be at the meeting as an observer, just need ticket.
__________________________________________________________________________
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Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[64]
Ok, that is a step forward.
This cannot have been easy, so it is appreciated even more.
It will be an interesting mini summit. But it is good to see that in light of how important the situation is that all sides take a moment to stop, breathe, stick heads together, and tackle the challenge on the table.
Thank you.
INCARNA. EXPERT HOUSING, QUARTER STYLE, New Eden's Blue Lagoon. Coming Soon.
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Korerin Mayul
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[65]
happy with the content of this. ill restart the sub on my main to keep an eye on you guys pending the report from the CSM.
the wording of 'However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.' This dosent add much clarity at all, so no 'gold ammo', but premium ships and mods are still ok?
anyway, the CSM meeting will help a lot, fingers crossed we can get some clarity there.
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Montolio
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:40:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Montolio on 26/06/2011 18:41:12 Edited by: Montolio on 26/06/2011 18:40:36 Please change
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
To
Quote: there are no, never have been, and never will be plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other performance impacting items in EVE for PLEX, GTC, or Aurum."
And have the CEO of CCP post it please.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[67]
Good step forward Arnar, thank you. But there are other concerns that need to be addressed, namely, the price of vanity microtransactions which aren't exactly micro, and performance issues with Incarna.
___
Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator |
Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[68]
Go, go gadget CSM ! Make us proud ! |
P0le Dancer
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: QwaarJet You don't need a meeting with the CSM to know what needs fixing. You are just wasting more time.
what he said. Don't care about various performance issues or the fact that rich kids stole daddy's credit card. Tell us what will and will not be available, (in terms of vanity vs p2w) for aurum
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[70]
No "gold ammo" is a bit vague tbh.
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nota spyalt
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[71]
step 1: delay step 2: find meat shield step 3: blame meat shield "csm said they thought pricing was okay for our vision" step 4: ?????? step 5: profit
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Myxx
Atropos Group
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[72]
THAT is something I can get behind. I'll give this a chance to work out, then.
--
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
Originally by: Tom Gerard
Then again... I am a moron.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[73]
So what you're saying is that the CSM is more important than the player base at large.
This needs to be a discussion with the ENTIRE community, not just a handful of people.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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4N631
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[74]
Edited by: 4N631 on 26/06/2011 18:54:49
CSM =/= EVE community They don't even listen in Assembly Hall
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Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:41:00 -
[75]
Quote: Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing.
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Tatiana Valenko
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[76]
Just a typical stalling tactic and vague answers.
I'll wait to see your action rather whatever hot air comes out.
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[77]
You'll find me in Jita once you came to an agreement. --------
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Stignos
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[78]
Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[79]
What you do, not what you say.
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Quacka
Minmatar Dark Tree Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[80]
All though the words are nice, and In the past they would have done fine, times have changed, and now your words mean nothing. I need to see your actions. These words are very perdictable.
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Nishachara on 26/06/2011 18:44:49 Edited by: Nishachara on 26/06/2011 18:42:26 Thank you for the blog, and for the love for the community you state... but as you know love is best shown with deeds not words...
Anyway...it ends in a cliffhanger ...
Watch next episode on July the first...
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Panda Name on 26/06/2011 18:43:08 deleted post so i can post with my main. no time for faceless alts today.
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Smoking Blunts
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[83]
waste of time again. no questions answered again
will there be MT for non vanity items? will the CQ be optional? like you promised
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Innominate
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Smells Ass
Why didn't you say:
"We are not going to sell any Non-Vanity items in the NEX store" !!!!!!
Because they ARE going to.
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Majuan Shuo
Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:42:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 26/06/2011 18:45:19 I will still be unsubbing until a "no to game enhancers, ever" comes forward. and if they do this but later brake their word (again) I will just unsub again. "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[86]
Now THIS is the blog I wanted to see. In fact, it was more than I could have hoped for. An emergency meeting with the CSM in Iceland is a brilliant move CCP and one I hope brings the important issues to the table for a frank and honest discussion. Will there be "reporters" there live blogging?
Kudos CCP. All the whining can just stop now, or the whiners can just leave...Eve will be a better place without you if you can't even manage a modicum of respect this latest move by CCP. ~Gnosis~ |
DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Brock Nelson
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[88]
I approve of this blog
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[89]
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
What a load of BS. Why don't you listen to the actions of the players of this game (un-sub). Your damage control is pitiful and not to mention late. This really is the end for this terrible game and most likely the company. I can promise you that without eve, DUST isn't going anywhere and your sparkling vampire game isn't going to be developed it time to catch the fad. Good bye ccp. |
Mikal Morataya
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Smells Ass
"We are not going to sell any Non-Vanity items in the NEX store" !!!!!!
Agreed, while not perfect I see this blog as an olive branch and hope that this can all be resolved before game changing items for aurum wreck the game.
Time will tell.. Positive steps tho from the tone of the blog at least.
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Leon Razor
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:43:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Leon Razor on 26/06/2011 18:48:30 I think this response should be enough to calm everyone down. For now at least they seemed to have answered the big yellow question. God knows if you play EVE you have developed some sense of patience, so please have it now. Give CCP and the CSM a chance to draft something to address all of our concerns. We can't expect the rest of our issues, posed by 2000+ people to be well answered by 2-3 people at CCP on a weekend.
edit: Thanks CCP, the CSM meeting sounds like an excellent idea. Thanks CSM for flying to Iceland on such short notice to try and save EVE. I was really getting tired of the "EVE is dead" posts (it felt like a comment thread on slashdot for a BSD story).
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Angeliq on 26/06/2011 18:44:12 "Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session."
So there will be no "golden ammo" but the NEX stays. I see, so there will be "red ammo" or "pink ammo" or maybe "golden ships"?
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Mechanoid Kryten
Humble Origins Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Mechanoid Kryten on 26/06/2011 18:45:35 Woooo! Eve lives!!!!
but what about ships that dont consume minerals but can be bought only with incursion isk / real money?
Still, i think the meeting with CSM will ensure nothing utterly horrible happens. I will contact them with a concert that causes forum threads to be closed when it is brought up.
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Gydion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[94]
i do hope they sort this out and keep the aur market vanity only, anything else is just going to cause more trouble.
Youve appologised zulu and i for one respect you for that.
Now its the turn of the company or should i say the head honchos to not completely mess this up and restore the game to the great thing it was before all this mess.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/06/2011 18:45:57
I want to believe
(whether accounts get resubbed or not depends on what CSM has to say and whether CCP manages to make me believe that their internal attitude towards customers is about to change massively)
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Skarsnik
Caldari DarkArch Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Algathas I will keep my accounts unsubbed while I wait for a real answer.
I'll be waiting for the answers too. -------------
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Lennie Clarke
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[97]
CCP:
Thank you for not getting confused by the mixed message the community has been sending through the honest ideologues dismayed by the possibility of selling gold ammo for EVE (such as you have discussed implementing in World of Darkness and DUST514) and those that are merely irritated by the apparent price (based off of the price for cosmetic upgrades like your monocles).
EVE would be destroyed if you transformed it into a Pay to Win game, and I am glad that Zulu and the others who contributed to this devblog seemingly understand that and will act in ways indicating that they understand it.
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Kindora Adoulin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[98]
Thank you Zulu and Fallout. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I really appreciate that you are taking a step back towards listending to the concerns of your playerbase. It would have been nice to hear that no game effecting items will be sold, however I assume that that is what you meant by golden ammo. Looking forward to hearing the results of the CSM talks. From what I can see, myself and many of the other protesters are standing down until CSM talks are done.
Once again, Thank you CCP.
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TedStriker
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[99]
Edited by: TedStriker on 26/06/2011 18:44:33 So, you are dedicating a WHOLE ISSUE of your CORPORATE NEWSLETTER about something THAT NEVER WAS ON THE TABLE.
Now, you know a large portion of your customer base works in high profile companies and has an issue with this statement yes? Its really really strange.
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Romulus Janus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[100]
I watch, I wait, I trust not CCP. I keep working on my tag image. Kent Brockman With a SOE logo saying "I for one welcome our new Overlords. --- NOT!!!.
My kingdom for an awesome graphics designer. LOL
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Vim
Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:44:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
AND...EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE:
why are you discussing something INTERNALLY for all employees to read if IT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN ON THE TABLE. I can't understand that, from a corporate perspective. Thats as if you would discuss "how do we produce ferraris"...if YOU DONT.
They need to discuss MT for their coming titles. Noone knows thoose coming titles like they know EvE. Hence they talk about MT in an arena all of CCP can relate to, that being EvE.
/Case Closed.
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Niraia
Zaratha Zarati Aggravated Assault..
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[102]
"gold ammo" is too vague, and you know it.
Pathetic.
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Chimaera Abaddon
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[103]
... I have to honestly wonder, why did it take two blogs to answer that question.
Why, did you completely ignore the CSM's (as they have stated) when they said it should be addressed in the previous blog. And now you want to bring them out to clarify things?
It was a single sentence.
Days, thousands of posts, people verbally beating the hell out of each other, mocking the concerns and lack of concerns and thousands of unsubs...
Because a single sentence couldn't be posted days ago?
Even if CCP really never will sell "gold ammo", etc, (and I don't even know what to trust because this is all so surreal) how can I forgive such a massive degree of incompetence? Or forget the turmoil I've felt as someone who has followed and loved Eve since 2005?
For a single, god damned, sentence? ... *shakes head* I'm not even sure how to react or what to think.
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Algathas
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[104]
No to gold ammo doesn't mean no to non-vanity MT. It's painfully obvious what their plans were and this is just another spin.
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SciWolf
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[105]
I hope its not like "there's no GOLD AMMO, only SILVER AND PLATINUM! MY WORD IS FAIR!!!"....
Not subbing until 1 of july. Want to see some ACTIONS.
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Fuel Technician
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[106]
What about Gold Guns?..........or ships for that matter??
Or maybe Gold Implants?
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Toman Torax on 26/06/2011 18:46:15 How will this be any different from the past times that the CSM has brought issues and discussion to your table, and you have summarily ignored it and them? I can appreciate your attempts to assauge the masses in what has clearly turned into a ****storm of gigantic proportions, but honestly, why should we believe you now? You still have many long miles to go in order to bridge the huge gap in communication and repair the damage you have created by your own hands. This would be a great first step, but only if it is the beginning of more to come.
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Miranda Ivanova
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[108]
i dont mind there being a few vanity items in a store, etc basic uniforms and stuff, but reguler cloths should be made by the players, i was looking forward to trying my hand at a new market in the game when up to now i have never done trade in the game.
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Serenity Frye
Gallente Heretic Army B A N E
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:45:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Serenity Frye on 26/06/2011 18:47:27 thanks for this blog entry. this one didn't make me go insane inside, so that's a pretty positive step. i am glad you said there is no gold ammo in the works - it is quite a huge relief, and is exactly what the community really wants to know. it's why people are rioting.
however, i think we need even more certainty. you'll recall that ccp shadow said nearly exactly a year ago that absolutely no MT would be introduced to eve. you guys have to do something that will address this. i know you acknowledge the breach of trust, and the irony that regards this concerning your own company's internal issues, but again: "it must be dealt with".
but again, this is a good step towards saving the game we all love.
edit: guys i'm guilty of the rage, too, but i think we can hold off for now. we made ourselves pretty clear with the past 48 hours of monument bashing. i'm not saying quit the protests, but i think we can stop calling him pathetic and whatever else. again, i'm guilty of this as well.
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Makindi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 -
[110]
This is way to late. damage is done.
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Mara Kell
Steel Beasts
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 -
[111]
To be honest "no gold ammo" sounds for me like there are still plans for gameplay influencing items in the shop.
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Caiden Baxter
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 -
[112]
What you do, not what you say.
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 -
[113]
Good blog. This can be something to build on. Trust is still lost between us and we need to know more in the near future.
I believe we all are waiting for actions, not words.
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Gwenywell Shumuku
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Vim
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
AND...EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE:
why are you discussing something INTERNALLY for all employees to read if IT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN ON THE TABLE. I can't understand that, from a corporate perspective. Thats as if you would discuss "how do we produce ferraris"...if YOU DONT.
They need to discuss MT for their coming titles. Noone knows thoose coming titles like they know EvE. Hence they talk about MT in an arena all of CCP can relate to, that being EvE.
/Case Closed.
Nothing is closes, DUST is no seperate product. And Incarna is the door to MT. If you don't see that, or you are not working in any company where you experience such practices...than be a bit more carefull.
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Monikerina
Amarr Macross Space Defense Squadron The Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[115]
Here is the bottom line. This post is a scam.
How is it a scam?
CSM will be meeting with CCP on JUNE 30 and JULY 1st. That is a week away. CCP is still just hoping we will calm down and run out of steam by then.
There is now no trust between myself and CCP. They have shown time and again the CSM is just a figurehead. I have also noted that the CSM does not seem to be inline with the community on this, and have no faith that they will hold the line for us.
tl,dr
CCP stalling for time. No trust.
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Judicator Saturnius
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
This, well said Chribba. Oh and:
Originally by: CCP Zulu there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
:slowclap:
vOv
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[117]
Originally by: TedStriker Edited by: TedStriker on 26/06/2011 18:44:33 So, you are dedicating a WHOLE ISSUE of your CORPORATE NEWSLETTER about something THAT NEVER WAS ON THE TABLE.
Now, you know a large portion of your customer base works in high profile companies and has an issue with this statement yes? Its really really strange.
You didn't read the newsletter, did you? Some articles said it should happen, some said it shouldn't.
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Lorna Sicling
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[118]
Thank you - without undermining the process further you have stepped up, said what you wanted to say, and more importantly said what we needed you to say.
1. No "gold ammo" in your new store; and 2. We're going to talk to the CSM
We elected the CSM, this is the best way forward - any more comments or detail would render the meeting with the CSM a pointless freebie.
I'll look forward to the outcome, but in the meantime will continue doing what I do in Eve. This doesn't mean I'm going to buy a hopelessly overprices skirt though.
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Dark Kano
Amarr Chasing Shadows Inc Chasing Whisky
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[119]
This helps us not at all. Ok so CCP talk to the CSM and the CSM tells them no pay 2 win items and just like last time the said no MT at all CCP will just do as they wish. I think that the CSM is just in place to placate the eve online playerbase. All it costs CCP is a few trips to Iceland and all of a sudden they are in touch with the players.
I wonder if the CSM enjoy being puppets and scapegoats?
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Charles37
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[120]
That still seems like an incredibly poor and paper thin excuse for the catastrophe that your previous dev blog was, but I'll let it stand for now I guess.
CCP still has a lot to answer for in the eyes of the community, but hearing that you're not going to be selling in game advantages for Aur is a good first step.
Flying the CSM out to Iceland also shows a lot of good faith on your part, but considering how multiple CSMs have talked about the attitude CCP has towards them and how their feedback, ideas, and suggestions are often just given lip service to, I'm not sure if this is much more then just a PR stunt.
I guess I'll leave this with an analogy that should make a lot of sense, given both the name of your country and where it's located: You're walking on very thin ice right now.
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Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:47:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Wearfield on 26/06/2011 18:49:23
CCP!! You already know how we feel, it's all over the internet. Meeting with CSM achieves nothing. |
Sona May
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[122]
Thanks Zulu. I really hope this puts an end to or at least calms the riots.
Also, people should not speak for others. I really don't mind vanity MTs. I encourage them.
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Dracnys
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[123]
This is a great step forward and I'm very happy to read that the tone has changed. I very much support CCP's decision to consult the CSM before making any snap decisions and saying things that have to be taken back afterwards, just like it happened this weekend.
Looking forward to the CSM meeting
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Darth Vapour
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[124]
I hope the CSM tells you to fix your own mess.
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[125]
Thankyou for the blog and the appology.
Let us hope that the CSM and CCP can address the communities concerns.
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Fighter26
Orion's Fist
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: CCP Zulu never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Look, all most of us want is no game changing stuff in that aurum shop. You can charge 1000 dollars for a monocle, see if most of us care. BUT DONT GIVE OUT ITEMS THAT ARE NON VANITY IN THERE! that is the main problem in your plans.
Another problem that gets people fervored up is the idea of offering painted ships without the need to have a produced unpainted ship.... that is much easier to handle add a rigged paint slot (if it is taken out it is destroyed, to avoid not getting your money for the product.) or just require a item to make that item a painted version.
-Fighter -
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Inipinipocoloco
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Inipinipocoloco on 26/06/2011 18:48:05 pile of crap dear sirs, that what it is
CCP decides more buying time and no answers ?
CCP thinks we are a bunch of online junkie pigs that eat whatever **** u throw in front of us ?
i dont care if u got mistrust in ur fkin company mate - obviously u deserve to be mistrusted
WORDS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANYMORE CCP
account will be canceled tomorrow after corp meet
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Anoobis Aivoras
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[128]
hmmmm.... ok. Let's see then. Call it a ceasefire.
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Memitim Deuce
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[129]
I really hope that this isn't too little, late.
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Saving Face
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Smells Ass Edited by: Smells Ass on 26/06/2011 18:39:52 Why didn't you say:
"We are not going to sell any Non-Vanity items in the NEX store" !!!!!!
We know they had plans for ships for aurum, so we already know ships aren't covered by that statement.
It's a non-statement. We won't get coloured ammo. That's about it.
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[131]
A more concilitory tone this time, for which most of us will be grateful but why is it so difficult to answer a simple question? Will there ever be non-vanity items sold for AUR? That answer doesn't require a CSM meeting.
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
Peter Greed
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[132]
Nope.
This issue goes WAY above CSM interaction.
This is a perfect non answer, slyly deflective.
You people buying it never even understood the real root issues and their implications.
You people buying this just got caught up in the forum rage, and like good sheep everywhere, you go where you're told.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[133]
Classic CCP Stall tactic.
The question was on non vanity MT's not "gold ammo". By only answering the gold ammo part you leave yourself the ability to still put in MT's.
The CSM are in a skype channel with you. Web conferencing is a common tool. Phone conferencing has been on the go from the 70's. There is zero reason to have a face to face meeting.
Unless you want to stall for 6 days and let things quiet down. |
Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[134]
"Gold ammo"
Replace that with "in game advantages." Add "never will be" to same sentence. Then you are good to go.
Otherwise this is just weak stalling tactics. |
Lonox
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Juan Sezole NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
It's here, it's staying. Get that through your head.
Originally by: Holly Cleland has red bruising and veins popping up where the monocle plugs in.
No wonder you people are so angry, you're doing it wrong. |
Trishar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[136]
thx.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:48:00 -
[137]
That was a whole lot of words for a dev blog that didn't actually say anything.
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F3LL's Ghost
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[138]
This blog is better, not great, but better. Its not enough to keep me from unsubbing one of my accounts but the other one will stay up until I hear how the csm meeting goes. I really hope I see some signs that there will be significantly improved communication with the players. Maybe then you can admit that there are serious issues with your current direction for the game and this patch in particular/
F3LL
PS if you guys have problems with leaks internally you should probably consider that the people leaking stuff are ****ed with your ****ty communication issues the same as us players... just saying
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Raven IPS
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[139]
I feel like gold ammo here is an analogy for all Non-vanity items. Good job CCP.
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Starkiller Adams
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[140]
stEp in the right direction but still a long way off from getting out trust back alt will not be resubbed for a while
side note do we stop setting jita on fire
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Roh Voleto
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[141]
Just another "Fck You!"? Why do you even bother writing these "blogs"?
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[142]
why are all the overly positive responses in this thread made by suspiceous looking alts?
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[143]
**** the CSM, like they speak for the players of eve. They are the same lemmings that run the alliances, BOTS and RMT.
Bring on MT and give me more bling.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[144]
I don't know how much I trust CCP's word right now, I asked for actions, not words. It seems you are trying to make good on that. You didn't try to set anything in stone, rather you are flying our representatives out there for a face to face meeting. I'll still be waiting on the results of that meeting, but I think this is a step in the right direction.
I'll try to refrain from any instigating posts in the coming days and give CCP the chance to listen to the player base and hopefully make some changes. I know some people will yell "too late!" but I think better late than never. If we don't give them the chance to listen to us now, then they'll never have a reason to. We demanded to be heard, and they are hearing us. Let it happen and give things a chance.
CCP, I'll be encouraging the CSM to not only bring MT to the table, as well as other problems with the expansion (which, I've said repeatedly, was not all bad, in fact, I like the direction most of it is taking), but to address the letter Hilmar wrote. The wording in it makes me wary when you say you'll listen (actions not words), as well as your intents behind MT (...communicated our intention... Fearless newsletter...). As I said, this would all be pointless if I weren't to give you a chance now, but I wanted to let you know my feelings, and what's on the table for me. There are the problems that started all this, and there are problems from the actions afterwards.
Goodluck at the summit everyone.
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Velani Askiras
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[145]
@CCP Zulu
Good dev blog. I will wait and see what happens in the next couple weeks. My 4 accounts will run out in 8 days. I will watch and see what happens in the feature.
I love EVE and i will come back when things are sorted out.
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Monikerina I have also noted that the CSM does not seem to be inline with the community on this, and have no faith that they will hold the line for us.
How is the CSM out of line? Please explain what you want the CSM to bring to CCP that's different from what they've already publicly stated.
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Elrich Zann
Minmatar Hidden Agenda
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[147]
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
Absolutely the correct way to handle this. While I may not always agree with everything the CSM says, I do believe they have the best interests of EvE at heart.
I look forward to the results of this meeting.
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Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Niraia "gold ammo" is too vague, and you know it.
He used a well-established metaphor. No gold ammo means there will not be game mechanic relevant item sales on the NeX. That is part of the answer we wanted to hear. |
Kei Mifune
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Kei Mifune on 26/06/2011 18:56:10 No "gold ammo", doesn't say anything about ships, SP enhancements, implants, consumables, modules, so on and so forth. I don't understand how "no gold ammo" should be placating so many of you because it's still not a complete answer to "No non-vanity items".
They're so hard pressed for cash it seems, if they need to pull out this Money-trade, then why are they wasting even more money paying for plane tickets during the expensive summer season to fly the CSM out there when web and phone conferences have server so many other corporations very faithfully for so many years? |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:49:00 -
[150]
They won't repeat the promise because they know their word won't be trusted, anyway. Instead, they decide the best way to handle it is to try and meet, in person, those who are supposed to represent our interests, the CSM, to discuss this matter as solidly as possible, and let what results from that speak for itself.
Personally, I think that those who are the most ****ed off won't be placated by anything, even if it is exactly what they want to hear. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
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Fran Crick
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[151]
No "gold ammo" does not mean no "game changing non-vanity items"!
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[152]
Well, you could have replaced the words "gold ammo" with "non-vanity items". But didn't
Good luck to the CSM, ya'll are gonna need it _
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[153]
Still dont see answer to question: are you going to go beyond vanity items in NEX?
And when it comes to trust issues, we trust you none anymore. Theres no reason. Year ago it was promised that microtransaction would not come in any form on eve, now we have them. Lies, damn lies from ccp representatives.
If your ever going to rebuild that trust, you petter put your actions where the mouth/keyboard is.
It took us players two days of lockdown of major market hubs and makeing big headlines on internet to force you even contact CSM. CSM that was at your disposal to difuse this situation before it even started. Why didint you? Why did you bypass CSM so totally?
How i feel is that ccp has forgotten then we are the ones that pays this game. We pay so ccp would continue to maintain and develop it more. I understand progress, but CQ is something digged from beta box, im shamed to call this expansion. What happened to all those other features that were promised to be iterated? Soverinity, wormholes, science&industry, etc...
Personally i have 4 accounts, with about 30 days on each of them, you have that time to start fixing the damn game. First restore old hanger view as alternative to CQ, eve takes now fordiculess amounts of time just to load up. You did promise incarna would be optional, so make it so damn you.
Thanks to sm2 drop im no longer able to play with my laptop withc happens to be 1 year old, so thanks alot for that. Thank god my desktop is still able to play Real EvE, not that cq bull****.
Good luck on your emergency meeting with CSM, hope you get results that makes me reconsider voteing with my wallet. Eve was unique game, i hope it keeps being that in future. Dont become like everyother mmo outhere, in your own field you have no competition. Just make the game osome and fix bugs it has and word of mouth handles rest.
If its money issue, then maybe you should cut back on developing those other titles so much. This camels back can hold only so much. We pay for eve, becouse we love it. think about that for second.
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Mynt Sierra
Caldari Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[155]
Comments: Tone: Much better and more serious. Mocking customers is not a good idea. Content: Request for a cease fire until they can run their real goals past the CSM. Note, this will most likely backfire but will provide delicious drama for another week. Subtext: Denying Gold Ammo is a nice way of avoiding everything else that was in that article, such as Aurum for extra fitting slots. Analysis: They still can't admit to what they're planning to do but are now willing to compromise on certain items if they can screw the CSM over, and failing that, make cutbacks on their plans. Conclusion: They really, really, don't want you to carry on cancelling your subs. Recommendation: Cancel your subs.
--------------------- Unsubbed. |
Leah Pendragon
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[156]
"The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."
Promising
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
Too vaugue, a better response would a blanket statement regarding non vanity MT rather than gold ammo. The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.
what you do, not what you say...
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Gydion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[157]
i have to admit though the "what you do, not what you say" quote is ringing as true for the players as it was for sender of that email.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:50:00 -
[158]
At least a tiny tiny tiny step into the right direction.
But in times like these we pay less attention at what CCP is saying than in what they are doing. |
diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:51:00 -
[159]
More empty words and stalling tactics.
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Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:51:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Sgt Napalm Thank you You could have saved the community 2 days of grief by just saying that in the first place. There are still some out-standing questions, but it appears that you are waiting for CSM to comment. That is a good thing.
This. ---------------------------------------
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Blake Savage
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:51:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Blake Savage on 26/06/2011 18:53:50 I know your going with the whole i want to be a capitalist pig and all, but micro transactions with this whole AUR thing , clothing and other stupid items, why mess with a game thats already perfect in alot of ways, sure the whole point of being able to walk into a ***** bar on a space station and shoot the **** with the locals seem like a good idea.
But really, CCP direction smells alot like in the ways of Blizzard, and its disgusting.
Probally wont be long before you put in some premium features that people can pay extra for a month.
Next thing we know is your going to take the sandbox out of eve and make it into a theme park mmo, just like SOE did to destroy SWG
Or perhaps you have learned something from their failure, time will tell.
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Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[162]
Thanks Zulu.
As I predicted, all a bunch of crying over rumours and hearsay.
Unfortunately it will continue, because some (emo) people tend to take heed more to their feelings than anything else.
HABIT
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[163]
Originally by: diaufop More empty words and stalling tactics.
THIS
"what you do, not what you say"
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Ishana
Minmatar Eve Space Exploration Guild
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[164]
I am glad to see you are being more cautious with throwing stuff out there, with the situation being so volitile and all.
I am also glad to hear that you are gathering the CSM to discuss these issues. But please, for the love of all that is holy, listen to them. They have the interest of the players at heart, so try to come to a compromise with them which both fits the players desires and CCP's desires. (though remember that a good compromise often leaves both parties wanting more )
For now I think you have succeded in what CCP Pann tried to do: "buy time", but I asure you that things will flare up again if these issues aren't handled correctly and swiftly. So tread with caution...
Thank you for your efforts. _________________________________________________________
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[165]
No gold ammo? What about non vanity boosters, modules, ships, implants, pos stuff, sp, faction standing, sec status? ¡
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Ando Godson
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[166]
Nope.
Simple question, expressed over and over by the community and the CSM:
Will non-vanity items be sold for Aurum?
You're being cute putting "gold ammo" in quotes there, but it just looks like another dodge. So go ahead, convene your ****ing committee. In the meantime, the forums and Eve will continue to burn.
There is really only one possible takeaway from your refusal to answer such a simple question. If you did not intend to go to a Pay to Win model, you would've denied it by now. You can't say outright that you'll do so, either because the timing doesn't fit whatever bullcrap marketing schedule you've got in place (a schedule that this cluster **** of a situation has rendered well and truly moot) or you know that admitting it will result in even greater mass cancellations than you've already seen.
My account stays cancelled. Have fun fiddling while Rome burns.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[167]
Originally by: diaufop More empty words and stalling tactics.
Which is all the most aggravated are going to see, even if they do tell you what you want. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Zakota Vertidei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[168]
Glad this has finally happened. We just wanted transparency. Now, I'll sit back and watch the galaxy burn above your heads as you discuss the future of your love child. I know you can come back from this, CCP. After all, your self-proclaimed "fearless" attitude will prevail in a positive manner this time.
In all honesty, many players still have faith, as do I. I, personally, am extremely relieved that gold ammo isn't going to be sold. I'll probably buy a shirt if it's not 20 dollars.
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Zachary Taylor
Caldari Botdecers
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[169]
Thank you for a clear answer on the MT issue we have all had.
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Abecbu
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:52:00 -
[170]
Buy PLEX with $$$ Sell PLEX for Isk Buy items with Isk
P2W
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[171]
Translation:
Eve is hurting for cash. We can raise the subscription fee alot, raise it a bit and allow vanity MT, keep the fee where it is and go balls out on MT, or get a "loan" from SOE. We're going to let CSM pick your poison and then blame them.
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Soban Vuex
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[172]
This blog entry is much more positive than expected. But the quotation of GOLD AMMO while in that sentence brings only one real meaning to me - "We will not make a << +10 to all ammo >>, for you to buy, but you will be able to buy just any other << regular ammo >> that is currently ingame."
We will only wait and see on after this CSM meeting, maybe It will prove me wrong on interpreting your message CCP, and if so believe whomever you like IT WILL MAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAPPY.
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Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[173]
Quote: For that I am sorry.
Forgiven. Every single ****ing one of us here has made mistakes in this game. Not all of us know how to say those last three words. Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
It's done then.
CCP. I am disappointed in how long it took you to admit that last phrase, and how you allowed your inaction to nearly bring a unique and tough as nails community to riot. But, thank you for taking steps to resolve it.
EVE Community. I am disappointed in how little faith you had in a company that some of you have been with for seven years, and how you allowed your groupthink to overpower your ability to use formal logic and deduction regarding what may be opinion and what may be debate. But, you have my undying respect for showing passion, and love, for the game that many of us hold dear.
Put out the fires, and let's get our **** together for the CSMs. -------------------
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Inipinipocoloco
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[174]
very low skills on damage control - ccp buying time is all i read
u lied to the csm
so now a csm meet should save ur ass till the hate is gone ?
sad ppl cry - angry ppl act
burn in ur arrogance ccp
words are not good enough anymore
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Hiryu Jin
noXCorp Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Hiryu Jin on 26/06/2011 19:00:53 What a crock of ****. Seems like CCP trying to buy some time to let the community cool down. CCP doesn't give a **** about the CSM. This only looks like a smokescreen of wordplay til the angry mobs go away. Well, the angry mobs will go away, to new games.
edit: we're not all so naive and gullible anymore CCP. You've burned any credibility and trust you may have had. Only your actions can speak now.
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Smoogle
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:53:00 -
[176]
Quote: We live in interesting times; in fact THE FORUMS is the kind of PLACE that if things get repetitive we instinctively crank it up a notch. That, we certainly have done this week. First of we have Incarna, an amazing technological and artistic achievement. A vision from years ago realized to a point that no one could have imaged but a few months ago. It rolls out without a hitch, is in some cases faster than what we had before, this is the pinnacle of professional achievement. For all the noise in the channel we should all stand proud, years from now this is what people will remember. EXCEPT FOR THE OCCASIONAL CRASH AND THE MEMORY USAGE.
But we have done more, not only have we redefined the production quality one can apply to virtual worlds with the beautiful Incarna but we have also defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life when it comes to launching our new virtual goods currency, Aurum.
Naturally, we have caught the attention of AT LEAST TWO GAMING WEBSITES. Only a few DAYS ago we SHOT THE MONUMENTS A LOT. After 40 hours we have NOT KILLED THE MONUMENTS YET, generating more LULZ than any of the items in the store.
This we have done after MINUTES of research by a group of highly competent profes... (PFFFFFF), soliciting input and perspective from PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAY MONTHLY FEES. We have communicated our intention here EXTERNALLY in very wide circles through the GLORIOUS INTERNETS. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. EXCEPT CCP APPARENTLY.
Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for OVER 9000 YEARS, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change. AND MONOCLES ARE REALLY QUITE INSULTING BTW.
We went out with a decisive strategy on pricing and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable. EXCEPT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TOO MUCH ISK. That is not saying nothing will change, on the contrary, in fact we know that success in this space is through learning and adapting to _what is actually happening_ and new knowledge gained in addition to what we knew before and expected.
All that said, I couldn't be prouder of what we have accomplished as a PLAYERBASE, changing the world is hard and we are doing it as so many times before! Stay the course, we have done this many times before.
Wow, that was even more versatile than I had hoped.
+1 for the watching what you do, and not what you say.
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Jonas Glim
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[177]
Finally, a positive step forward.
Why yourself and Hilmar were so determined to fight the community still baffles me, but at least we have progress. I hope you feel the damage done was worth it.
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NeoNexus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[178]
Edited by: NeoNexus on 26/06/2011 18:54:35 Much better - expect we will hear more after the CSM meeting
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Tsu Hak
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Tsu Hak on 26/06/2011 19:01:43 TOO LATE CCP AND NOT ENOUGH
CCP Zulu already murdered 2 of my accounts by the crap he posts
RIP both
Annie *28.3.2007 to June 2011 and Ivy *26.12.2009 to June 2011
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Baihuigau
Gallente Skull Brigade
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[180]
HEY CCP THIS "what you do, not what you say"........plus tell hilmar if that email is real, it just shows yo all think were just a bunch of statistics in a database acording to his "what you do, not what you say" not to mention it was a extremely arrogant email.
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RutilusUnus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[181]
Edited by: RutilusUnus on 26/06/2011 18:54:35 I'll be contacting all of the CSM.
Sniper!
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Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[182]
You twerps backpedal any harder and you'll be able to set land speed records at Bonneville Salt Flats.
Meanwhile, somewhere in Seattle, Gabe Newell of Valve is floating on a pool lounge, water glistening off his bloated manbreasts while he dines on Moon Pies and Dr. Pepper (with real sugar). He hears of what you've done, and he's laughing, while nubile women prepare to give him his daily nude massage. All because of hats. And actually trying to please customers...
But don't worry, I hear rotten shark is coming down in price this season. SPAAAAAAAAACE JEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!
There's a herd of killer rabbits coming this way, and we need your help! |
Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Gnulpie At least a tiny tiny tiny step into the right direction.
Are you familiar with the phrase 'one step forward, two steps back' ?
i to ~want to believe~ but their obviously not addressing the question of non-vanity items. they beat around the bush with the 'gold ammo' comment.
at least we know those of us that cancelled our subs were joined by others. this blog is a direct reaction to us speaking with our walles
too little ccp. you have to EARN my trust back if you want me to resub ever again. and that will require assurances you obviously won't make.
you and I both know the business decision has been made and your not going back. you're just trying to be very careful not to let the frogs realize the water will soon be boiling
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Atai Pekoe
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:54:00 -
[184]
Thanks guys! :-)
can we please all start playing our beloved game again?!!! PLEASE???!! ^^
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 26/06/2011 18:56:57 Thank you for the blog, it wasn't entirely the answer we wanted, but it is a step in the right direction.
I will watch, and wait for CCPs actions to speak for you CCP Zulu. Do not ignore the CSMs opinion on this, they were chosen to speak for us for a reason.
My account will remain cancelled for now, the 70 days of time left on it will allow you to clean up this mess you created somewhat. Then I'll see what my actions will be.
Remember what happened here, your players are watching you, and breaking their trust can cost you very dearly indeed.
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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[186]
@Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
Debbie DoesDallas
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[187]
This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.
Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit. |
Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[188]
Gold Ammo is a reference to cash shop items, dammit, I thought half of eve played world of tanks?
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Wakana Kakuta
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[189]
Whiners will whine and haters will hate. People who have never assumed responsibility or have never had to take a business decision - as is the case with most of the benefits supported EVE community - will never know how tough it is to run a business. They will whine no matter what you do.
Good step forward CCP Zulu
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Integra Arkanheld
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[190]
It is a good decision to talk again to the council. I hope that everything will be solved and people will stop complaining for something that is still not here, and concentrate on the game. We all have time to quit the game if it changes in a bad way, but for the moment it is a great game, and it is better to play than to argue.
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Vance Armistice
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[192]
Taking my fingers off the autocannon triggers for now but still have you yellow boxed Zulu (in game jargon not meant to infer a physical threat in the real world, don't ban me bro!)
We will be watching what you do..not what you say.
Speaking of which, how is Hilmar?
p.s. I will be waiting for my gratis Ishukone Watch Scorpion, I hear you have some lying around and considering the level of stress we have been put through I think distributing them is justified. Thing is I only fly minmatar...
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:55:00 -
[193]
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Thanks for clearing that up. I guess many of us assumed/hoped that was the case when reading your earlier blog.
However circling the question did do its part in fueling the fire, you could have spared the poor forum mods a lot of grief by being a bit more clear.
Btw, can I file a reimbursement petition for all the stuff that I will probably not receive from ragequitting buddies now? I mean, its technically not my fault
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Inipinipocoloco
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:56:00 -
[194]
no gold ammo ? ok
gold guns ? gold lazors ? gold hardeners?
**** u ccp we are not stupid
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Tipsy
Gallente X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:56:00 -
[195]
This is progress and I'm glad to see CCP acknowledge the alarm felt by the community in recent days.
I can't help but feel the most of this could have been avoided if CCP had paid more attention to the CSM from the outset when deciding how to shape its response to the leaked document and email. Communication must be high on the CSM's agenda.
I look forward to reading a report from the CSM's visit to Iceland.
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Gydion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:56:00 -
[196]
A friend who has been trawling through these forums more than i have has said he has picked up on the general feeling of delaying tactics by ccp and there are worries that ccp may try to bully the members of CSM into accepting MT's
CSM, DO NOT let this happen, during that meeting you are the voice of the community, anything other than utter refusal on non vanity items will go against EVERYTHING the community and the prostests ingame have been fighting for.
Do the right thing so yourselfs and the rest of us can get back to enjoying this game.
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Siren 4
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:56:00 -
[197]
Would it not be an idea to host atleast part of this meeting by way of a live feed so we the players can see what is happening first hand. It would help repair some of the trust that has been lost.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:56:00 -
[198]
You only said "gold ammo".
So does that mean I will be able to buy a booster that increases my rate of fire by 10% for a month? (only $9.99!) ____________________________________________ I REFUSE to watch Eve Online die without fighting.
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syrus mac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[199]
I don't know why people are saying "thank you" to Zulu, sounds like he's spent the last hour in with CCP's legal team going over the wording of this last offering!
He has said nothing and done nothing to answer the questions put to him only giving a patronising apology to try and calm the masses.
Many people more eloquent than I have spelled out the points that need addressing, until I see a bulleted list with the answers to specific questions in non legal bull**** form I'm not gonna be happy!
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Xionis Zeshun
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[200]
"then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum"
That's great and all, but what about in 6 months? Next year? 2 years? For the length of time this post took to get out here, it sure is short, full of empty platitudes, and noncommitments.
Disappointed in what was once one of my most respected gaming corps.
Looking forward to the July 1st post, but at this point my expectations could not get lower.
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Angeliq on 26/06/2011 18:58:14
No plan for "golden ammo"? Just like you had no plan a few years back for cash shop?? And what about other non-vanity items like implants, ships, enchantments, bonuses, etc??
Will it be pink ammo, or wenge ammo, magenta ammo, maybe saumon fonce ammo?
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colera deldios
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[202]
So, this blog opens with apologies and a seemingly geniune interest in re-building your destroyed trust and reputation with us, and then use a deliberately vague phrase such as "gold ammo".
If by "gold ammo" you meant "performance enhancements" why haven't you responded to the multitude of people asking you to clarify this.
Is it because it is YET ANOTHER attempt at deceiving us?
Do you think this is wise considering the circumstances?
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Crymrea
Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[203]
I realize this won't likely get read under the wave of responses.
To CCP, thanks for an answer that doesnt tell your customers to p*ss off. This is a decent step.
As others have parroted from your CEO, now the action part matters as your words come a bit late and therefore will only buy so much time.
My accounts will remain unsubscribed until I see and judge those actions, but now I'll log on.
Plus, this crap made me into a forum troll - if for no other reason, please make it so I don't need to follow these forums closely. I think it was better that way for everyone involved.
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Mirage Excelsior
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[204]
Always a cynic, but:
We get an apology and a request for parley (IE, sit down, stfu, wait but asked nicely)
Now, we get another apology, and asked to wait again.
I personally struggle to see how this isnt Pann's post reworded.
You did however make the effort on a Sunday, that in itself is rare, thus appreciated.
I also believe the CSM's views reflect mainly the views of those around them ingame, though as someone else said, atleast it is an olive branch.
tl;dr - What you do, not what you say.
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Randal Eirikr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Maul555
Amarr Reliables Inc BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Maul555 on 26/06/2011 18:58:02 Thank you Zulu. This is a good start and thank you for saying straight up that there will be no gold ammo. This is a proper response! I look forward to the CSM meeting...
And BTW people... going to the CSM is what they should be doing... They are there to cut through the noise of thousands of players...
/pitchfork deactivated
The EVE Personality Test
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[207]
This blog did nothing to help, CCP.
#1 Recent lies to players, and ignoring CSM - Havn't addressed that issue, so by inviting CSM over to talk does not solve anything whatsoever. For all we know you can and will still lie to us, and ignore CSM.
#2 Will you sell non-Vanity items - No anwer to that question, just dodging it by saying there will be no gold ammo, so for all we know you can and will still do this. And even if you stated you wouldn't, for all we know you are still lying, #1 is your major issue right now. MT or not is just a matter of opinions, it's not gamebreaking - until you add non-vanity items, in which case it becomes gamebreaking and a major issue. The first is just cosmetic, the difference should be quite clear.
#3 CQ-related discussions - To CQ or not is a matter of opinions. Some will like it, some won't, there's nothing more to it. If you decide to have "the Door" temporary and then force everyone to use CQ, you will **** players off, but it's ultimately your choice. What really matters is #1 + #2.
** So how do you go about to win back trust? ** - We know CSM didn't give the transparency as promised years back. CSM needs to be removed as step one, waste of cash and obvious you don't care about it. - Second off the lying staff you have, have to take the consequences. That means, CEO is ultimately responsible and has been part of this. Hilmar has to go. There's no way around this, anymore, you have pulled it too far. - Zulu really has either been pulled in a leash to run other peoples business, or he has been lying to players as well. This need to be addressed. He needs a reprimand or to step down.
That's pretty simple and straightforward. Nothing unreasonable or trolling about it. If I was a shareholder and had interest in the company (financially, not just by it being my favourite hobby for the past soon decade), I would demand what's above. Would you keep shopping with a company that had a management that repeatedly lied to you and went behind your back?
There's no other way to win back the players trust, and that's issue #1. -
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:57:00 -
[208]
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where I look at what CCP do and less of what they say.
______ Tippia's analysis of NEX/Incarna |
Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[209]
For those who think gold ammo just means gold ammo
World of tanks gold stuff
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Hiryu Jin What a crock of ****. Seems like CCP trying to buy some time to let the community cool down. CCP doesn't give a **** about the CSM.
This is exactly what's going on. There is absolutely nothing that CCP can discuss with the CSM in Iceland in a week's time that they coudldn't discuss with them via skype over the last few days.
CCP are hoping that by announcing they refuse to discuss the issues until then that everyone will calm down and carry on and ignore the veritable piles of ship CCP have heaped upon them in the past few days. And then post some weasel-worded document at the end of the week that amounts to "we're carrying on anyway, but this time we got the CSM drunk enough to agree!".
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Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[211]
You did not answer:
Will non-vanity items be sold for Aurum?
Gold ammo sounds like a vanity item. More time waste, bs and delays. And funniest thing is, whoever leaked the internal stuff is more passionate about eve and its community then you ever was, or will be Zulu.
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SunTsu Rae
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[212]
An open Letter to the CPP management.
You are NOT the ones that should be driving how we play.
Why? Look at your pay checks. They are written on our REAL LIFE money.
Break the game , and we break YOUR bank.
The interaction with 0.0 is decided by the player, the one who pays on the account, and should not ever be dictated by the application writers.
Quickbooks tried that, and it cost them market share.
Take the hint.
We make the choices, and we can choose to go elsewhere in quantity if we see you reduce quality.
Maybe it is time for a review by the Investors of the books, overall business practices and future direction.
If you prefer your clientele to only be pubescent teenagers, and college kids, continue to destroy the economics and abundance of play styles.
The result will be a slightly above average, internet based, application eqivalent to a console game, instead of the thriving community and economy.
I used to recruit for the adventure of Eve: Online.
I guess I will hold off on that.
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moola
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[213]
CSM blah blah, free PR blah blah, we had a extraordinary CSM meeting blah blah, New Eden set to rights via CSM blah blah, free PR blahh blahh.
I can understand they dont want to wade thru all the posts, but the points have been stated and still not addressed, why CSM? free press that is all.
YOU DONT NEED A CSM MEETING HERE IS THE INFORMATION YOU NEED http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html
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dethleffs
HATEME'S GANK EMPORIUM
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Jofeder
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:58:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Jofeder on 26/06/2011 18:59:17 At least now we're not waiting for CCP statements anymore, but CSM's. If after the meeting the CSM says "it's over" than it is.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Angeliq
No plan for "golden ammo"? Just like you had no plan a few years back for cash shop?? And what about other non-vanity items like implants, ships, enchantments, bonuses, etc??
I want these items. Dont really care if you dont. MT is optional you ****head.
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Norebert
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[217]
Progress - we'll watch what you do, not what you say.
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Morphisat
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[218]
Much better. This should have been up a few days ago ;).
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[219]
Originally by: syrus mac
He has said nothing and done nothing to answer the questions put to him only giving a patronising apology to try and calm the masses.
Isn't this what we wanted? Not words that we would feel were lies, but actions? Flying the CSM out there for one issue on short notice feels like actions to me. I'm still waiting to hear what happens, but this is a step in the right direction. If CCP isn't given a chance, then they have no reason to listen to us.
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Arxa Atram
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Arxa Atram on 26/06/2011 19:00:54 get rid of the noble exchange or aurum and we'll believe u that there is no threat to subsonly. i think it's ok to buy expensive (and useless) things for isk for some people, but aurum is just way too much suspicious and yeah, **** sony
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 26/06/2011 18:59:59 Thank you CCP Zulu for your response.
I, and I imagine many like me, are eagerly awaiting news back from the CSM council in Iceland. We have spent countless hours living in your universe, and as you can see have very strong feelings about how we want it to evolve.
We honestly want you, the developer, to be on our side regarding how the universe grows and changes. The more the CSM council is kept in the loop, the more we believe this to be true. The more they are listened to, the more we come to believe that you are listening to us and our thoughts and concerns.
We honestly want to give you (and by you I mean all the developers and CCP) the benefit of the doubt in the future when news arises that seems contradictory to our belief that you have the best interests of the community in mind. We, the community, simply ask that you be honest and quick in your responses - as in how the response to the rumor that CCP was in buyout discussions was handled. We ask that you respond before we arise together to a fevered pitch, and we ask that you tell us the truth - no matter how you think that might be perceived.
Support us, the player base, and think of us not as your cash crop but your friends and loyal followers and we will help you grow your game into the foreseeable future!
~Carai an'Caldazar Pod Pilot since 2007
P.S. If you ever do sell out, please don't sell to SOE... everything besides Everquest that they touch turns to crap ~Carai an'Caldazar~ ~Carai an'Ellisande~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Pacifica Dace
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Rhivre Gold Ammo is a reference to cash shop items, dammit, I thought half of eve played world of tanks?
I'm of the half that does not play WoT, but I still got the reference. I'd still prefer the answer in plain English, but this is encouraging.
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.
Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.
Also encouraging.
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Damodreda Makura
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
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Posted - 2011.06.26 18:59:00 -
[223]
Another bul**** empty word that have dangerous meaning. Why CCP $1000_Pants can't just say there won't be any MT for non-vanity items? Because he know how much they still wan't to have them. It's just stalling and making us a fools again. So they NEED to meat with CSM to admit that they won't make T20 s**t official business?
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our greed lizards do and less of what they say. - CCP Greed
I never finish anyt... |
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:00:00 -
[224]
As others before me have said, I'll watch what you do, not what you say.
I'm going to try out Perpetuum tonight and see how that plays out. Sounds like EVE when I first joined many years ago -- bit rough around the edges but the most of the right pieces in the right places.
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:00:00 -
[225]
There should also be a video or stream of the CSM meeting. It is time to be totally open with us CCP --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Azaris Rubernis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:00:00 -
[226]
Thank you for the blog.
I still don't understand why people continue raging, trolling, being sarcastic etc... I'm not against vanity items... I'd just like to see cheaper prices, that's it.
I hope your meeting with CSM will bring some good news for all, and that people will finally stop to spend more time on forum than in game.
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[227]
Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 19:01:57
Originally by: BeanBagKing
Flying the CSM out there for one issue on short notice feels like actions to me. I'm still waiting to hear what happens, but this is a step in the right direction. If CCP isn't given a chance, then they have no reason to listen to us.
There is absolutely nothing that CCP can discuss with the CSM in Iceland in a week's time that they coudldn't discuss with them via skype over the last few days.
CCP are hoping that by announcing they refuse to discuss the issues until then that everyone will calm down and carry on and ignore the veritable piles of **** CCP have heaped upon them in the past few days. And then post some weasel-worded document at the end of the week that amounts to "we're carrying on anyway, but this time we got the CSM drunk enough to agree!".
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Muchless
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Bomberlocks Comments: Tone: Much better and more serious. Mocking customers is not a good idea. Content: Request for a cease fire until they can run their real goals past the CSM. Note, this will most likely backfire but will provide delicious drama for another week. Subtext: Denying Gold Ammo is a nice way of avoiding everything else that was in that article, such as Aurum for extra fitting slots. Analysis: They still can't admit to what they're planning to do but are now willing to compromise on certain items if they can screw the CSM over, and failing that, make cutbacks on their plans. Conclusion: They really, really, don't want you to carry on cancelling your subs. Recommendation: Cancel your subs.
Very Good Plan Sir, I 100% support, -2 subs
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Spacing Cowboy
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[229]
cease fire seems to be in order for now
No pressior on the CSM's .. at all :p
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Naitrayera
Arthashastra
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[230]
Will there ever be non-vanity items for aur in eve ?
If yes?
Will those items be brought in game from thin air (like you wanted to bring in that ishukone scorpion)?
Or will it be more like LP store where you get bpc-s, ammo, modules by trading in some money and modules and stuff?
If the answer is second one, than maybe this could be pulled out to work, if answer is the first one than eves economy will die first than the game, period.
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Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[231]
I grant you a ceasefire. The result of 30th, 1`st will tell if its over.
I will not resub before after the 1`st of july, when we have some final word from CCP and the CSM
Remember. The revolution was not fueled by hate, it was fueled by the love to the game....
Azz *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Im not listening to ccp, Im watching what they do
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[232]
Somewhat better.
But STILL didn't answer the damn question.
You know where the line in the sand has been drawn, and you don't need a ****-up with the CSM before you admit to us on which side you are planning to dance.
You are banking on strong-arming the CSM into giving you a validation for decisions that you obviously have already made, and like Zymurgust, you'll take a selective memory on the discussion when you then try to force through changes that you already know we won't accept.
My accounts are still cancelled and you still stand on the precipice.
Choose you next move wisely......
CCP: Consistency since 2003 |
Dibble Dabble
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[233]
Originally by: SunTsu Rae An open Letter to the CPP management.
You are NOT the ones that should be driving how we play.
Why? Look at your pay checks. They are written on our REAL LIFE money.
Break the game , and we break YOUR bank.
The interaction with 0.0 is decided by the player, the one who pays on the account, and should not ever be dictated by the application writers.
Quickbooks tried that, and it cost them market share.
Take the hint.
We make the choices, and we can choose to go elsewhere in quantity if we see you reduce quality.
Maybe it is time for a review by the Investors of the books, overall business practices and future direction.
If you prefer your clientele to only be pubescent teenagers, and college kids, continue to destroy the economics and abundance of play styles.
The result will be a slightly above average, internet based, application eqivalent to a console game, instead of the thriving community and economy.
I used to recruit for the adventure of Eve: Online.
I guess I will hold off on that.
Some of us would like MT to work. If you dont want MT then dont buy it. I like the idea of MT, its optional. Your just another lemming ******.
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Fractal Muse
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[234]
Oh my.
Who's brilliant plan is it to go the 'no communication' route?
Take the fire. Take the heat. Burn a bit. And walk away with a head held high that you interacted with your playerbase.
Putting everything on hold won't help your situation. Waiting another week will not help.
Goodness. Just come clean with what you are planning on doing and be done with it. Let the market decide if it likes your idea or not.
The more you play the shady, disingenuous, inept role... the more people will leave. Who can take a company that rolls out an expansion and then claims that they don't even know what they are doing seriously at this point?
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Sinitron
Caldari Sinister Electronics
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[235]
Not re-subbing for this.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/06/2011 19:05:46
"no gold ammo" is a reference to the game World of Tanks (which is very popular among the 0.0 crowd).
In that game ammo that can only be bought with the MT currency (gold) has much better armor penetration than the "regular" ammo.
IMO "no gold ammo" does at the very least mean "no non-vanity items that give a direct advantage in pvp" but interpretations may vary.
The Mittani uses the term "gold ammo" the following way (I credit him with popularizing that term within the CSM and at CCP but have ofc no idea if that's true; but he loves catchphrases):
Quote: The controversy is the shadow lurking behind the monocle, hinted at in the Greed is Good newsletter: gold in the sandbox, a "pay to win" gold-ammo situation in EVE. [...] I and the rest of the CSM have been extremely blunt in our demands that CCP issue a formal disavowal of 'gold ammo', non-vanity microtransactions, or otherwise bleeding gold into the sandbox of EVE.
How CCP understands that term is something we will hopefully see after July, 1st.
I am particularly concerned about
* ships/items that are weaker than their non-MT counterparts but unique (e.g. I could imagine that CCP might want to release the Tornado via the NeX as some sort of tier 2.5 battleship, weaker than the tier3 battleships - Abaddon, Maelstrom, ... - but unique enough to attract customers nonetheless)
* services like "PLEX for Remap"
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yumike
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[237]
The devblog is little different then the previous, You again dodge the question. Okay so there won't be "gold ammo" what are you going to call it then? OMGWTFBBQ ammo?
I can't speak for everyone, But I don't put any more faith in something the CSM says then what any other player says. You obviously have Evasive Maneuvering V trained.
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Lilliana Stelles
Caldari Nagrom Security Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[238]
I'm happy with this blog. Really, it's quite a step forward (and a step down) for you to address the community on such a personal level. I honestly didn't expect this from you guys. If I were CEO, I'd just say "F*** it, we can find new players". But I feel you guys still know what keeps Eve apart.
I'm okay with the virtual goods so long as they benefit the community more than they hurt it. I just hope that everything goes well between you and CSM. Thank you for listening to your players.
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colera deldios
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Rhivre Gold Ammo is a reference to cash shop items, dammit, I thought half of eve played world of tanks?
If this is what was meant, why hasn't Zulu taken the few seconds to confirm this considering the amount of confusion?
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Metungaawten Liqouragain
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:01:00 -
[240]
As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.
At least one player i know of was banned due to simply being upset at this situation.
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Golden Goose 4CCP
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[241]
I can wait.. I can't wait forever.
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Darth Sith
Genbuku. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[242]
Correct me if my math is off, but don't you have to sell a metric F**K-ton of Monacles just to pay for the flights of the CSM to Iceland ?
Not so much on the profitability :)
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Leon Razor Edited by: Leon Razor on 26/06/2011 18:48:30 I think this response should be enough to calm everyone down. For now at least they seemed to have answered the big yellow question.
No they didn't. The big yellow question was about non-vanity items, not golden ammo specifically. Won't resub until they do. -- "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[244]
Will this hold up the minutes from the last CSM meeting? Hope you have a transcriber in there this time so the minutes take less time to write up.
Good luck CSM6.
Get us what we want
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Shasz
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[245]
3 devblogs later and not one addressing the crap you've done to the game and its interface.
This microtransaction crap is such a fun distraction for the sheep and trolls, but means nothing to the game play and interface issues you're ignoring.
Somebody email me when the game is out of Beta again - I'll take another look.
___________________________________
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Angeliq
No plan for "golden ammo"? Just like you had no plan a few years back for cash shop?? And what about other non-vanity items like implants, ships, enchantments, bonuses, etc??
I want these items. Dont really care if you dont. MT is optional you ****head.
so what happens when an army of people fueled by, say, an aluminum tycoon armed with millions of dollars takes over the entire game because they're able to afford things that make their ships explode slower, or not at all, or other's ships explode faster?
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Senlia Hucel-Ge
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[247]
Sounds not bad.
As soon as you clarify, that
* you do not sell ANY non-vanity items, * shortcuts (SP, standings), * now and in the future * in a way that does not allow any loopholes
I gladly resub.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[248]
I like how the devblog is carefully worded...
"There HAVE BEEN no plans"
does not mean there "WILL NOT". ____________________________________________ I REFUSE to watch Eve Online die without fighting.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 -
[249]
Still on the unsubscribed side of things here (-2), looks like a week at least then.
Thanks for the apology though, appreciate it.
PS: start communicating in the Test-Server-Forums, 30% of the rage is fuelled by your lack of talking with the testers over there.
What wrong is with Eve / CCP (by Tippia) |
Kith Kanann
Minmatar Pator Tech Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:03:00 -
[250]
The CSM...
Seriously?
What a waste of time. ..........................................
Greed is GoodÖ
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It's going to be awesome.
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Dessau
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:03:00 -
[251]
As you recall there was a definitive promise of 'no microtransactions, ever' last June. Now, here we are.
By extension, today's 'promise' is equally as meaningless.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:03:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
As will the CSM.
Originally by: Innominate Lies, spin, and equivocation. "Gold ammo" is a catch-all for anything affecting gameplay, and I suspect you're not using it as such here.
I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".
Originally by: Innominate "Please stop talking about this."
On the contrary; start talking about it. Make sure that the CSM, your representatives, is absolutely clear about your opinions. I think we are, but there are always nuances.
Originally by: Weaselior This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
Originally by: Buzzmong I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Thanks, appreciated. You can also email me directly at [email protected]
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Govinda Sertan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 -
[253]
Imho, this Zulu blog was a fail. He dont answer anything. He ask us to wait a hole week. He dont give us anything.
It's hard to say but to me, the trust has been broken, and it will take a lot more than these weak, empty words, to bring it back.
I need acts. I need bug fixes. I need new projects to make the game better.
I am not paying a subscription to allow the dev to add more paying content !
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Goatse Girl
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 -
[254]
Resubbed! much love CCP ZULU!
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 -
[255]
OK CCP you win.
It is quite obvious you could not say "We will never sell non-vanity items".
My subs have been in cancellation status for 3 days and there is no chance that will ever change now.
I can unequivocally state that I will never put another dime into your company again.
I can also unequivocally state that I will never advise nor reccomend to anyone that they do so either.
My ranting and protest are done, you win.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 -
[256]
Originally by: DaiTengu
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Angeliq
No plan for "golden ammo"? Just like you had no plan a few years back for cash shop?? And what about other non-vanity items like implants, ships, enchantments, bonuses, etc??
I want these items. Dont really care if you dont. MT is optional you ****head.
so what happens when an army of people fueled by, say, an aluminum tycoon armed with millions of dollars takes over the entire game because they're able to afford things that make their ships explode slower, or not at all, or other's ships explode faster?
I think you will find that people are doing it already with Plex. Your scared of change. Your a fool.
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Kithrus
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 -
[257]
Why does everyone keep expecting worst case?
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justme6
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 -
[258]
just Skype it and be done with it you'll just ignore their recommendations anyway!
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Helig
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 -
[259]
Thanks for the blog and the additional dialogue.. we're heading in the right direction. One of the big concerns for most is some commitment to not selling game impacting items via Aurum (we already have plex for that). This is pretty critical as it really would undermine our monthly subscription.
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St'oto
Elite Predators
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 -
[260]
It's about bloody time! CCP you seriously need to learn how too communicate better with your customers. Maybe the CSM needs to school you guys in proper communication etiquette? I literally signed back up too eve about 2 hours ago. I hope to god I won't regret it. I'm hoping that the CSM will put you guys back in line and show you just how valuable your customer base is. Without us, you are nothing. You need to remember that.
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octahexx Charante
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 -
[261]
or he said their trust had been breached...hence the internal info came out. csm is called back for being told off by this security leak.
this is their major problem not what was in the letter.
gold ammo answer is just a play of words to avoid the subject.
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Onyx Blackman
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: SunTsu Rae An open Letter to the CPP management.
You are NOT the ones that should be driving how we play.
Why? Look at your pay checks. They are written on our REAL LIFE money.
Break the game , and we break YOUR bank.
The interaction with 0.0 is decided by the player, the one who pays on the account, and should not ever be dictated by the application writers.
Quickbooks tried that, and it cost them market share.
Take the hint.
We make the choices, and we can choose to go elsewhere in quantity if we see you reduce quality.
Maybe it is time for a review by the Investors of the books, overall business practices and future direction.
If you prefer your clientele to only be pubescent teenagers, and college kids, continue to destroy the economics and abundance of play styles.
The result will be a slightly above average, internet based, application eqivalent to a console game, instead of the thriving community and economy.
I used to recruit for the adventure of Eve: Online.
I guess I will hold off on that.
Some of us would like MT to work. If you dont want MT then dont buy it. I like the idea of MT, its optional. Your just another lemming ******.
That's the thing, it's only 'optional' if it has no bearing on gameplay or gives no advantage. |
Vic Tenrach
Minmatar Fuer Grissas ost Drauka
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[263]
Wonderful news, and a pleasure to read this devblog. I've been uneasy since Incarna came out, but still cautiously optimistic. Today I don't feel worried that my favorite game will crash and burn and the world will end \o/
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Kith Kanann The CSM...
Seriously?
What a waste of time.
Do you have a better way for them to communicate with the player base?
I know of no better way for them to reach out to the community and find out our real concerns, besides looking at the debates we have on these forums (which I imagine they do based on their discussions with the CSM).
Regardless of your political affiliations in EVE regarding the delegates and where they are from, there has been only evidence to support that the past CSM councils have had the best interests of the EVE player base at heart. While CCP may not have a track record for spearheading development based on their meetings, there has been victories and hopefully will be many more. ~Carai an'Caldazar~ ~Carai an'Ellisande~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Urziel99
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[265]
No disrespect Zulu but I'll believe it when I see it. Meantime, I'll be keeping an eye on the NeX and if I see anything remotely suspicious I'll pull the plug on my 4 accounts.
I won't play a game who's economy is being usurped by the games creators.
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Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[266]
A good step forward. No advantages by aurum is just what I want to hear.
Hopefully the next steps will be in the same direction
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[267]
I am glad that CCP have seen the importance of the issue and have scheduled a crisis meeting with the CSM. Thank you. Now we will see the character and calibre of the CSM representatives we elected in these vital discussions on the future of the game. Its my hope that future directions will be greatly clarified in this meeting and we will quickly see a commitment to a non-mandatory CQ / no PTW MC via Aurum and a general reassertion of the future of Eve Online as a fully subscription-driven product.
Join the Revolution!
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[268]
Well it's definitely an improvement from Friday's blog.
I'll accept "no gold ammo" as a psuedo-answer until the CSM meeting clarifies things but I'll leave my subs cancelled pending what information is forthcoming post the July 1 meeting.
One thing I would suggest as a gesture of good faith is to adjust the ship fitting limit to a more reasonable value immediately, 1000 should suffice for the time being.
As the infamous email says "this is a time when we look at your actions rather than your words".
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[269]
Thanks Zulu. I look forward to hearing about the upcoming meeting.
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Troy LS
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[270]
Bets that the Sony/CCP deal is announced before the CSM meeting next weekend?
I'll stay unsubbed until next week at the earliest.
Actions, not words.
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Tactalan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 -
[271]
Thats a lot better, but since actions speak louder than words, I'll wait before re-subbing.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
As will the CSM.
Originally by: Innominate Lies, spin, and equivocation. "Gold ammo" is a catch-all for anything affecting gameplay, and I suspect you're not using it as such here.
I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".
Originally by: Innominate "Please stop talking about this."
On the contrary; start talking about it. Make sure that the CSM, your representatives, is absolutely clear about your opinions. I think we are, but there are always nuances.
Originally by: Weaselior This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
Originally by: Buzzmong I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Thanks, appreciated. You can also email me directly at [email protected]
I really dont trust any in the CSM as most are sponsored by the RMT / Bot alliances. Your just like the rest, your only concerned with your own self interest. Change is good, live with it or quit.
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[273]
Well, at least you managed to avoid insulting your customers this time round - congratulations!
Won't be resubscribing in the absence of a firm and unambiguous commitment to keeping MT in eve vanity-only.
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Groyidd
I Wanna Rock Mining Coalition of the Unfortunate
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[274]
Holy Crap people...give CCP a break. They implemented a change that was supposed to be better for everyone. Anytime you change anything in a game as in-depth as EVE there are bound to people who disagree with the changes. I will admit that the cost of the vanity items are a little ridiculous, but lets face it, they are VANITY items. That means if you want to spend the money or isk for it than not many people have it. The problem with other MMO's and micro transactions is everyone was able to do them therefore minimizing the vanity of the items. I applaud CCP with what they are trying to do. So the Captains quarters isn't what people thought it would be. You know what? There was no engine for having a person walk around before. Baby Steps Folks. Get over yourselves and quit complaining. If one stupid memo is causing this much grief go ahead and leave so the rest of us can play this game in peace.
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Kith Kanann
Minmatar Pator Tech Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Weaselior This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
And yet it didn't make it into the blog... ..........................................
Greed is GoodÖ
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It's going to be awesome.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Troy LS Bets that the Sony/CCP deal is announced before the CSM meeting next weekend?
I'll stay unsubbed until next week at the earliest.
Actions, not words.
That was debunked hours ago.
___
Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator |
Joseph Vacher
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[277]
Not exactly a satisfactory response then, but there's now no point raging until the CSM report back.
Mind you, the CSM have some agreement about not disclosing what's said at meetings, no?
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Callidus Dux
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Callidus Dux on 26/06/2011 19:12:47 Edited by: Callidus Dux on 26/06/2011 19:10:48 Hello CCP and Mr. Zulu,
your last blog was a little bit disarming, However.. it comes without (m)any answers. You say there will be a meeting with the CSM und the leading group of CCP. THIS gives me the hope, that you will find a way back to the community. But after this meeting ALL people and especially I want a clear statement which way will CCP and EVE go with MT and the NEX store. Please do not bungle this last chance. You have my personal patience, but I can not speak in the name of all people here.
My wishes: NO faction standing or skillpoints for Cash; ISK or Aurum. -> NO Game mechanics purchasable / buyable Please give us the old effective hangar back and make CQ optional. I will use it. I assure, but I do not need it always.
Good luck with the meeting. I wish you all the best to fully cleare this haples situation. Damit I want back the time when I saw the video of "Permaband" and when I thought: THIS People have the best job and made a good job and the best game ever.
Bring back the good old times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
We're CCP! We march on fearlessly! Excellent is what we strive to be!
If you're going to follow us to the top
HARDEN THE **** UP!
I want to follow.
Best regards Calli
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Evalon Fury
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Walextheone A good step forward. No advantages by aurum is just what I want to hear.
Hopefully the next steps will be in the same direction
Nobody said that... You are making an interpretation of a satatment that does.. not... say... that.....
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Theviola Lin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[280]
If this is pretty much all CCP can offer at this time, i kinda expect little results from the meeting. Why call the CSM if you can just give us facts before any sort of meeting? Its not like CCP hasnt allready made decisions on the future of the EvE businessmodel. Why not just inform us in a fearless manner?
Dear CSM members, I hope you just ask for clear awnsers on decisions CCP management has allready made. Dont fall into the trap of negotiating as then CCP can put part of the weight on your shoulders. This is CCP doing anger management by buying time and setting the CSM up as scapegoats. After reading Hilmar's letter the EvE strategy is set in stone; and anger management using the delay tactic is usually bad news. 1 - Ask for facts; dont negotiate anything. 2 - Dont let the CSM become part of the problem.
"What you do; not what you say" actually means "Shut up, it will become clear sooner or later".
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Dr Geiger
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[281]
Having played this game for nearly 5 years, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say.
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Leon Razor
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:07:00 -
[282]
Would be nice to know if "gold ammo" is being used as a fun way to refer to non-vanity items, or just "gold ammo" in particular. While I appreciate the attempt at humor, now is not really the time for imprecise language.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[283]
CCP ZULU FTW
Told you that he is a good dude.
And he is passionate about EVE too, that's why he vented some steam in his first blog.
Better than some cold guy with no feelings towards EVE, just counting beans.
Now the CSM is better be taken serious! |
gargars
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[284]
Why on earth do you need to make us wait while you fly the CSM out there. Get on SKYPE - that will save days and days of delay.
In addition don't look at some statements from the CSM to us as a magic band aid. Most people have trust issues with them... especially after the last election.
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Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
-snip-
Please read this guys post, I imagine this sums up a lot of peoples opinions:
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
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Baihuigau
Gallente Skull Brigade
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[286]
I cant believe players are lapping up that devblog, essentially their just buying 4 more days in the hope people give up get tired and stop complaining, theres nothing they cant talk over skype or vent, or even in a conference call, theres no need to fly the csm out, i call bs on this but people are aparently buying it. They are already forgetting they called us golden gooses who wear 1000 dollar pants and the fact that ceo himself gave us a big fu by saying they only care about what you do, not what you say.
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[287]
Still no definate "No" on none-vanity items. Still nothing on slashing prices on vanity items to 1/10 of what they are now. Proceeding with letting more accounts expire and circling monuments in game till I see CCP doing that.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[288]
No gold ammo? What about faction standings? The missing faction tower BPC's? Ship fittings? Implants? whole ships? Skill training? and the 1000 other non-vanity ideas you have come up with?
Yeah.. need more time.. thats right. Because you cant just come out and tell us what we don't want to hear. So spin away! Thats your job anyway.
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CCFAIL
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[289]
Edited by: CCFAIL on 26/06/2011 19:08:14 you better got a reply before this accounts runs out of playtime. because ones its gone - it stays like that. (thats the 30th)
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Seline Okaski
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[290]
First, this was a much better dev blog than before. I can understand that emotions were running high on all sides, and I accept the apology for how the communications have failed through this debacle.
As to the meat of the blog, I am still not fully sated. I am hoping that the "no golden ammo" phrase means more than simply no in space usable items. I am hoping that means there will not be "Aurum for respec" or "Aurum for additional fitting slots" as well. There is still some ambiguity in your response, where the one thing we need is clarity. You have broken our trust, CCP, and that means we have to take what you say with a grain (maybe a mountain) of salt. Please make this clear. I am optimistic, but still am not resubbing just yet.
As to the CSM visit, I am not sure how to take this. Asking our representatives, the very same ones that you have disregarded, ignored and failed to inform/consult in the past to break away from real life commitments with under a weeks notice seems to be a last ditch effort to divert our attention. How do we know that ANYTHING from this CSM meeting, which may or may not have the full CSM involved, will actually make a difference when it has not done so before? This is a move based on trust, and you have no currency in that at the moment. If this would have happened before the current events or even if you had listened to people before implementing the current system, we might have enough faith in you to beleive that the CSM disscution would actually mean something.
As of right now, I have had a small modicum of faith restored, but I agree with a lot of the people here. I will be watching what you do and not what you say.
Please live up our expectations, CCP.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[291]
Originally by: CCP Zulu However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Given the time it took to write this blog i would have expected Zulu to have added "and there never will be".
Keeping an open mind is all fine and dandy but when something like that breaks the most fundamental and elementary mechanic of EVE (the market) every single employee of CCP should be against any plans whatsoever of bringing ammo/ships/similar into the game via NEX, at any point in time, past, present or future.
Again, given the time it took to write this blog i would have expected Zulu to at least confirm that there will never be any plans for something like that, ever. Right now he eloquently left the door open for something like that to be done anyway, only denying that there have been plans but not saying there will never be any.
Not including those few words shows me that the game designers and producers at EVE seemingly have forgotten what their own game was supposed to be about.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Hiryu Jin
noXCorp Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Kithrus Why does everyone keep expecting worst case?
Long experience.
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[293]
One request, Trebor.
This meeting needs to ditch the NDA and the details of it need to be known as soon as it is done. Delaying it any further than it already is would just make things worse.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Innominate Edited by: Innominate on 26/06/2011 18:54:32
Quote: fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
What.
Quote:
I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
More sarcasm. Nice.
Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Lies, spin, and equivocation. "Gold ammo" is a catch-all for anything affecting gameplay, and I suspect you're not using it as such here. You're being careful to not answer the primary demans which is for you to disavow all "non-vanity" items. I also don't see any promise that it won't happen in the future.
Quote:
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
"Please stop talking about this."
It's okay, CCP only hits us because they love us.
Yup.
a) How can it be a breach of trust to know what we're paying for? It's not like this is company secrets that will give competitors an upperhand, or technical information that could break the client/servers, etc?
b) "mutual" trust? When it's only CCP that broke that trust, players and CSM have done nothing to deserve "losing trust".
c) and the rest of the blog has zero content. -
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:08:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Katra Novac on 26/06/2011 19:10:17 I'm not sure it is a win yet, depends what happens with the meeting with the CSMs.
If the situation was over then why meet with the CSMs, plus the CSMs already knew about the Scorpion ship that would have been for sale, so do the CSMs really share the protesters views or at least are capable to represent the protesters interests?
Anyway guess we'll see in time.
Edit, this was actually answering a differnet thread, same topic but of course thread was closed. So it might seem a bit out of context.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 -
[296]
Edited by: The Djego on 26/06/2011 19:11:28
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
This.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
I hope you realize that Communication(or complete lack of it) is one of the main issues that let CCP lose everything it had left at credibility and you now go back to silence? *awesome* ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Hugh Hefner
Caldari Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
+1
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Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
Great, now get ZULU to man the **** up and SAY that and this will all be over, seriously, JUST GET HIM TO SAY THIS IN PLAIN ****ING LANGUAGE, how hard is that?
Of course as CCP LIED OVER MT IN THE FIRST PLACE I seriously doubt anything CCP says to the community will be taken on trust.
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LaoTsu Reborn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[299]
Commencing Operation ****storm Shield!
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Sona May
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[300]
After the blog post: "what you do, not what you say"
Before the blog post: "what you haven't denied"
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Vim And so this hopefully ends.
That so much rabble started over an internal document titled 'Gordon Gekko Edition' that clearly have one guy acting the part of Mr Gordon.
Correct, but why is it at all difficult for CCP to repeat their solemn promise never to implement non-vanity Aurum-only purchases?
It is not at all difficult for me to solemnly promise never to commit ****, e.g. As a moral individual I am keenly and profoundly aware of the intrinsic and inarguable wrongness of ****, and therefore it is completely effortless for me to make such a vow.
If CCP is a moral corporation with keen awareness of the profound intrinsic and inarguable wrongness of implementing Aurum-only non-vanity purchases, then it should be equally effortless for them to repeat their promise never to do so.
Yet they haven't. This June 26th dev blog, by CCP Zulu, was the perfect opportunity for CCP to reassure us in terms that are strongly and unambiguously worded.
But they didn't take that opportunity.
That is thought-provoking!
-- Salpad |
shoot me
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[302]
Vaugue Blog. Ruling out gold ammo only lol
Stalling for another week to let all the rage on the forums burn out some more.
Meeting with CSM under NDA no doubt. A month or so later the minutes will be approved and published again with a lot of empty words and vaugue promises.
Release new forum and lock the old one.
Problem sucsessfully swept under the carpet!
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Jearicko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/06/2011 18:43:16 That is a step forward.
I hope that nothing in the NeX store ever will be compared to $1000 jeans again, oh and give us a third ship state. Flying, docked and disembarked.
+1 Or, plus as many as I can add.... because this is exactly right. I've thought about it a lot, discussed it with corp mates, and this is a simple statement of the only reasonable or sensible solution. Fits gameplay AND story AND future game expansion better, and keeps everyone happy(ish).
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Cyber Duck
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[304]
Quote: This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all
The only meaning of a piece of text is the text itself...
Learn how to do literary criticism properly.
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Kithrus
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Kith Kanann The CSM...
Seriously?
What a waste of time.
Do you have a better way for them to communicate with the player base?
I know of no better way for them to reach out to the community and find out our real concerns, besides looking at the debates we have on these forums (which I imagine they do based on their discussions with the CSM).
Regardless of your political affiliations in EVE regarding the delegates and where they are from, there has been only evidence to support that the past CSM councils have had the best interests of the EVE player base at heart. While CCP may not have a track record for spearheading development based on their meetings, there has been victories and hopefully will be many more.
Has anyone heard the story of the merchant, the boy and the donkey?
Boy rides on the donkey, people comment that the boy is making his father walk. Merchant rides on the donkey, people comment the father is making the boy walk. Both ride the donkey, people comment how crule over loading the donkey is. The merchant and the boty carry the donkey and everyone just laughs that they look silly.
Oi! Wake up EvE community! Let them work out the issues okay and keep it constructive and no everyone is not going to be happy at the end of the day but CCP is working out a way.
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Raz Xym
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[306]
Edited by: Raz Xym on 26/06/2011 19:13:00 So,
CCP feels wronged by their customers. But to buy us time, please direct all your pent up rage at how utterly useless we are to the CSM. We have proven time and time again we think the CSM are pawns to be played with but never listened to, but this time, really, we will listen to them, honest. Just stop pointing out what fools we are on the forums, please.
Really I like my customers, as long as they shut up and buy PLEX.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.
No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums. ~Gnosis~ |
Saving Face
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".
In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.
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Roh Voleto
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[309]
How the hell can there be any positive reactions in this thread?
Don't you realise that this is just a slightly reworded version of his first blog? He just insulted us a bit more and refused to address, or even acknowledged, any of our issues.
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[310]
I'm not entirely happy with the "no gold ammo for aurum" wording, for obvious reasons. Thing is that the fact they want to talk in person with the CSM means that they DO have plans for non-vanity items. Otherwise thr wording would probably have been more satisfactory and the CSM meeting wouldn't have been a necessity.
I'll agree to a cease fire for now till the CSM had a chance to do their thing, I'm quite sure the CSM will represent me just fine in this without needing any input from my side, having listened to their reactions on EVE-radio and afterwards.
CCP better not be trying to sneaky and/or use wording tricks with this. Trust is already at an all time low.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
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formtief
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[311]
oh hell does the monocle income cover the expenses of the flight tickets? would be so roflomg if not
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[312]
I'm holding on your rope, Got me ten feet off the ground I'm hearin what you say but I just can't make a sound You tell me that you need me Then you go and cut me down, but wait You tell me that you're sorry Didn't think I'd turn around, and say...
It's too late to apologize, it's too late I said it's too late to apologize, it's too late
I'd take another chance, take a fall Take a shot for you And I need you like a heart needs a beat But it's nothin new I loved you with a fire red- Now it's turning blue, and you say... "Sorry" like the angel heaven let me think was you But I'm afraid...
It's too late to apologize, it's too late I said it's too late to apologize, it's too late
Bridge (guitar/piano)
It's too late to apologize, it's too late I said it's too late to apologize, it's too late It's too late to apologize, yeah I said it's too late to apologize, yeah- I'm holdin on your rope, got me ten feet off the ground...
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Kith Kanann The CSM...
Seriously?
What a waste of time.
Do you have a better way for them to communicate with the player base?
I know of no better way for them to reach out to the community and find out our real concerns, besides looking at the debates we have on these forums (which I imagine they do based on their discussions with the CSM).
Regardless of your political affiliations in EVE regarding the delegates and where they are from, there has been only evidence to support that the past CSM councils have had the best interests of the EVE player base at heart. While CCP may not have a track record for spearheading development based on their meetings, there has been victories and hopefully will be many more.
The CSM is just another vanity item, elected by block votes and their lemmings. I expect CCP to design the game and not some ******s who rake in $$$$ by bot manged alliances and their RMT operations to have any influence. They are scared of MT as it will impact their RMT and ISK printing machines.
So you can go on your jolly and i hope CCP stuff MT right up your arse holes and if you dont like it you can **** off.
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Planetary Genocide
Gallente White Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[315]
Finally. This is the sort of thing you needed to say 5 days ago, to head off all this butthurt before it happened.
CCP has always been poor at communication. That still needs to change.
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[316]
Jesus, what a load of bull****. Specifically no "gold ammo" ... nice that you picked a more ridiculous example to dismiss... no mention of MTs as a whole. in short you still are avoiding answering one simple ****ing question... why ?
the CSM being called to iceland is stalling for time Turbefield for CEO
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Corvin Clarke
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[317]
First of all:
CLEARNESS PLEASE
Seriosuly, do you realize how being vague makes it worst?
Second: Given that you haven't listened to the CSM concerning this situation on anything so far, do you really need them to fly all the way to Iceland to start taking decisions????!!
Sounds to me like a waste of time.
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RensPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[318]
Edited by: RensPriceChecker2 on 26/06/2011 19:12:47
So, question:
How soon after the meeting will we get to read the minutes of that meeting. Will CCP break the tradition of keeping the minutes for review for weeks and send them back and forth for editing this out and are you willing to make a comittment this time that we will be able to read the unedited full minutes of the meeting as soon as the csm is able to publish them?
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[319]
CCP, what you say no longer matters... we will judge by your actions. The trust and respect has been broken. Trinkets and peace offerings of 10% arent going to smooth this over. Releasing more of Incarna is not going to help either since it doesnt address the performance issues. I can be the most beautiful CQ/station in the world...but if it runs like crap then it still is crap.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[320]
Talking to the players and CSM, sounds like something you might have frelling done before jamming it down our throats CCP. That's not just about the CQ terribad performance and MT PR disaster, it's about the weeks before too. You were upset about the breach in trust at CCP, Zulu? My god man, you should be happy, now you have a slim chance to salvage this trainwreck that is bound to happen. Obviously this is nothing new and quite frankly the fact that it is considered internal and private and you are upset this has come out (like now, before even considering your customers' feelings about the matter) is telling and sad.
It's nice to know you're sorry Zulu, if only about your personal feelings. I'm not sorry about how I reacted and my feelings on the matter, I'm sorry CCP isn't sorry about the way it has been treating us.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Actually most of us pretty much understood that. What we did not understand was that in 200 pages of 'Will MT in eve go beyond vanity items, yes or no' there was not a single word uttered by anyone in CCP on this. No 'NO', no 'Yes, it is the future', no 'Maybe, guys the future isn't set in stone. We don't plan on doing anything other than vanity items for now' and no 'We will answer this and other questions on xx-xx-xxxx'. Because basically CCP's silence could only mean non-vanity items and/or services are already planned. Take your answer here, the specific use of the term "gold ammo". By specifically mentioning one, but only one, field of the non-vanity spectrum, I am left to infer that ships, modules, standings, implants, remaps, reskills, skillpoint(booster)s or any number of other things might actually be planned. I do not know.
It would certainly make sense to me, seeing the events of the past few weeks.
Many things are left unmentioned and unsaid. You ask for patience and time, yet CCP GMs ban players that may have said things possibly frustrated, like you
Quote: However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we [..] have been experiencing over the past few days.
CCP has an issue with a breach of trust, making you frustrated and lash out a bit in frustration at the players. CCP breached the trust between them and the players (again) and we get frustrated and lash out a bit in frustration at CCP. I know you see what I did there.
Talk to the CSM, if you can convince all of them, there might be hope for eve 1.0. We'll be watching what you do and say, for now my accounts will not be resubbed, I've given you over 7 years of patience and trust, these last weeks have turned me from a teacher and introducer of eve, to a bitter vet.
Ignore me
Drone Guide EON 21 & 22 |
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Worzel Bummage
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 -
[321]
The blog is reasonable.
BUT...
There's still no mention of the performance with CQ, and how unsuitable the door is as an alternative. This stuff doesn't need to wait for CSM input, please respond tomorrow (after consulting devs).
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Vapidity
Amarr My Monkeys 2 round banannas
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:13:00 -
[322]
To quote the blog: 'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes. So, we can expect for sure not to see gold EMP charges? Or gold thunderbolt missiles? Or any other charge that is virtual gold?
So, what about scorpions? Or.... any other ship? Special ships for $500?
I love how you guys choose your words carefully so that later on when you introduce the 'titan of doom' for $2,000 you can point back and say: we never said we were not introducing titans of doom for cash, we said "gold ammo"
I don't believe a word out of you guys so therefore I am not resubbing anything. Then you have the audacity to talk about how 'your' trust was violated.
Meh.
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Rokoz
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:13:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Rokoz on 26/06/2011 19:14:55 I think it's great that we have some dialog going again. With all the attention being placed on items in the store I hope the other big concern has not been forgoten. Will it be possible to have the old staion hanger back with a button to leave your pod? The new system is clumsy, iritating and unusable by a large portion of the player base. Apart from the fact it goes against EvEs back story of pod pilots, making for non-emersive game play.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[324]
Sorry I don't see why it will take longer to explain yourselves and you(CCP) have some 'splaining to do. The CSM has always been at your call when/if you needed them. Of late I am sure more than a few (I'd wager all of them) have been available to you to help you translate whatever corporate'ese you speak into words that convey what you mean to us.
In the end we have no choice but to wait for your response having waited so long already.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Trinneth
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[325]
"I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
It is in this spirit that I will now say something incredibly shifty and legalistic with regards to "gold ammo".
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[326]
I think I'm drowning asphyxiated I wanna break this spell that you've created
you're something beautiful a contradiction I wanna play the game I want the friction
you will be the death of me you will be the death of me
bury it I won't let you bury it I won't let you smother it I won't let you murder it
our time is running out our time is running out you can't push it underground you can't stop it screaming out
I wanted freedom bound and restricted I tried to give you up but I'm addicted
now that you know I'm trapped sense of elation you'd never dream of breaking this fixation
you will squeeze the life out of me
bury it I won't let you bury it I won't let you smother it I won't let you murder it
our time is running out our time is running out you can't push it underground you can't stop it screaming out how did it come to this? ooooohh
you will suck the life out of me
bury it I won't let you bury it I won't let you smother it I won't let you murder it
our time is running out our time is running out you can't push it underground you can't stop it screaming out How did it come to this? ooooohh Turbefield for CEO
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Raku Otsada
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[327]
This provides a glimmer of hope. Just don't bully the CSM.
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Jehvan Sunburnadire
The Forgotten Legion Redrum Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[328]
Since other threads related to this are being closed and redirected here, can CCP agree to either livestream or upload unedited video of the CSM meeting in its entirety that will take place this week? This is the time for maximum transparency, and this would go a long way to closing the current grand canyon that separates CCP from its customers.
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Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[329]
Originally by: CCP Zulu ...give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Thank You Zulu for that part. That's all I wanted to hear.
______________________________________________
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Sophie Rider
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Leon Razor
Would be nice to know if "gold ammo" is being used as a fun way to refer to non-vanity items, or just "gold ammo" in particular. While I appreciate the attempt at humor, now is not really the time for imprecise language.
It would be good to get a confirming message one way or another from CCP Zulu on this. I am sure that he is watching all of the posts and if he chooses not to clearly define what he meant by "gold ammo", I guess that would speak volumes.
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Auric Aurumfinger
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
+1 Aurum is Gold in Latin EVE Online - The Gold is CCP's |
Grep Oskold
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 -
[332]
Since my other post is in the nirvana:
Playing for time...that's it and nothing more. Transferring the heat to the CSM by venting the outrage there.
And the question is still there, will there be non vanity items in the NEX Store?
A joke and I am punched in the face again as is the whole community.
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Trillian Stargazer
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 -
[333]
if you read the forums or listen to the eve-radio podcast from funkybacons show you will know what the communities concerns are and this CSM meeting isnt really needed.
just buying more time ccp?
my subs run out next week and they will remain unsubbed until you pull your head out of your asses and address our questions. it shouldnt be to hard to read a question then answer it. stalling for more time isnt helping you or this great community.
- 3 accts.
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Ryunosuke Kusanagi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 -
[334]
I believe I told everyone to calm down until official word came out, give it time for everyone to calm down etc.
I want to remind people to stay calm until at least after the CSM's had a chance to meet with the Devs and (hopefully) management.
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Don Janitor Otichoda
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 -
[335]
Too vague dev blog. We are still looking for a descent answer before CSM meeting
Personally I do not trust CSM because I have never seen any proof they helped the player community
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Kurfin Well, it looks like there won't be non-vanity items, probably. I'm not sure if this is a u-turn, or a lack of clear communication in the first place. I suspect it may be the former, but it seems encouraging anyway.
Guys and girls, keep in mind, items isn't the problem.
Items can already be bought indirectly for $$$ via PLEX.
Therefore, items is not the problem.
The problem is stuff that cannot be traded to other players after purchase, such as direct purchase of SP or standing, and which can only be purchased via Aurum.
Anything bought for Aurum that can be traded to other players before being used, will not break the game because it is no different in principle from using IRL $$$ to buy PLEX which converts to ISK which are then used to buy Iwin-stuff like faction ships and high-meta modules.
-- Salpad |
Phoenix IV
Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 -
[337]
"The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."
I think it is acceptable. Much better blog than the last one. I'd like to see this mutual agreement in written form, preferably in the EULA.
ps. As a sign of good faith cancel the bans of the last days.
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ifollowed through
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Ryunosuke Kusanagi I believe I told everyone to calm down until official word came out, give it time for everyone to calm down etc.
I want to remind people to stay calm until at least after the CSM's had a chance to meet with the Devs and (hopefully) management.
why do CCP need to talk to the CSM to answer a very simple YES or NO QUESTION ?
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[339]
Originally by: gargars Why on earth do you need to make us wait while you fly the CSM out there. Get on SKYPE - that will save days and days of delay.
NOTHING takes the place of a face to face meeting, I don't care how many companies release fancy teleconferencing software/hardware, it just can't be done. I've tried it with clients designing websites, there's just... nuances that are missed. You can't easily pull everyone into another room to show them what's happening with a product, or show them the code that's being implemented. Not to mention that a face to face conference shows they are willing to spend the money to get our reps out here, I take it as a sign of respect that's been missing these last few days. I'd take the delay for the advantages gained anytime.
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Remair
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[340]
For my part I'm giving CCP the benefit of the doubt due to years of great service. I am hoping this whole thing is just a stumble (albeit long, drawn out and painful to watch) rather than them falling down completely. Goodluck CSM and CCP, no-one wants to see this game destroyed. Now to hold my breath for a week that "gold ammo" does actually mean "non-vanity items of any kind, standings, SP, skill/ability boosts or headstarts"...
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BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[341]
Originally by: QwaarJet One request, Trebor.
This meeting needs to ditch the NDA and the details of it need to be known as soon as it is done. Delaying it any further than it already is would just make things worse.
^^ This.
One other thing, don't let 'The Mitani' try to explain anything to the community. Doing that will be like being in a fleet with DBRB.
Confusing as all hell in the begining....You think you have some sort of clue what's going on in the middle....End up being a total train wreck in the end.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[342]
I guess I will be the first to say that this have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.
But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation. I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting. As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us
Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.
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ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[343]
To little to late.
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Spanking Monkeys
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[344]
Make CQ optional by way of a button in the station.
do not force this onto us.
CSM. make sure you get that as this is game breaking for so many of my in game friends, all have many accounts ranging for 5 to around 12
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 -
[345]
Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 19:18:15 "There are no plans".
I'd just like to take a moment to say this to all eve customers.
"There are no plans". This was exactly what Turbine used to deny LoTRO going f2p+cash shop less than 2 weeks before the official announcement.
"There are no plans" is the single most common weasel-word phrase used to mean "we're doing it, but not ready to go public".
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[346]
Well look at the STATISTICS!
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Eriam JH
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[347]
Anyone remember the "Unbelievable Bulls**t!" light that flashes in the movie, Airplane!
I value and respect that at least CCP no longer thinks we're upset about the price of the MT items. Still, the "answer" is a bit vague and non-committal. How about:
"CCP will never sell--nor offer for sale--in-game items or services that will affect gameplay in exchange for virtual currencies, virtual items, virtual services, gametime, real currency or currency equivalencies." Gawd, we should have a lawyer on the CSM!
No quotes, no euphemisms and no double-speak. Put it into CCP's mission statement and have every employee above janitor sign it in blood. That would probably erase most of the distrust.
What you do, not what you say
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Fighter26
Orion's Fist
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Not empty quoting. -
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admaril bluebeard
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[349]
CCP this protest is not just over the nexus store itÆs about the bugs, about the fact that many multi account players now have to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade their computers to keep playing as multi account players , itÆs about the fact there is no phone support , itÆs about the fact that we all are sick of CCP ripping players off by the store with items that are useless , and trust me this protest will keep running until all banned players if they were banned for protesting are returned to this game if they were banned for protesting. and we donÆt trust the CSM he is one of you after all, many of us did not vote for a ex CCP employee , itÆs about time you realized without players you have no game .the worldwide press have been informed re this protest ,and it has even made our local news here so the world is aware of it ,and we the players are sick and tired of petitions that take months to get answers even a simple reply telling us the petition has been received, and is being worked on and any meeting should be way of a eve wide cooperate chat with all CEO welcome there of course will have to be a way of letting all speak as many have different issues and if all concerns and if they are not meet then this will continue I am, even willing to re-sub just one account just to stay in protest, we can keep this up for as long as it takes , IÆm a union man and will stay till this is fixed, I started eve as eve was not one of these star trek games and when i though walking stations was going to be a good thing u just use cpu and as many games have mastered change, without making their players upgrade computers as i donÆt just have to upgrade my system i have to upgrade my sonÆs which wonÆt be happening, you need to address all issues, and this blog is a joke, if you think thatÆs what this protest is about ,its just one little part of the protest, its just one issue, the sooner CCP realizes that the better. this is and does have many concerns and as soon as CCP realizes and addresses all the issues the quicker it can be brought to a end, as solving one issue, this will not stop. This is the one time players have united as one, and we will fight till all issues are resolved. And I plead with everyone to list your issues after this so CCP can see what itÆs really about. Yes even I am upset over the nex store but to me that is just a minor issue the real problem with me is the bugs the cpu usage and the fact that this game needs phone support and it needs that support now not in ten years. it needs it now, this is the only game i have ever played where it does not have a true support system your company has absolutely no idea of Public relations and how to handle consumers and without us you are nothing and you know that if you donÆt then you have no concept of business if I treated my consumers the way you do I would be broke in a week
signed one very upset player
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Dalketh
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[350]
WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU WASTING TIME AND MONEY BRINGING THE CSM TO ICELAND?
Talk on Skype or whatever and have it done in a day - not a week or more.
MORE DELAYING.....
Oh and your line "we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session" is hugely insulting. There are hundreds of pages of us telling you our concerns!!!
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Amarr Justified and Ancient
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[351]
Everybody gets emotional now and then. So, apology accepted. At least you seem willingly to start an actual, and hopefully open, discussion with the players representatives and therefore with the players by proxy. That's good. I will patiently wait for the outcome of that discussion.
You just should have done it sooner. |
Sophie Rider
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Remair For my part I'm giving CCP the benefit of the doubt due to years of great service. I am hoping this whole thing is just a stumble (albeit long, drawn out and painful to watch) rather than them falling down completely. Goodluck CSM and CCP, no-one wants to see this game destroyed. Now to hold my breath for a week that "gold ammo" does actually mean "non-vanity items of any kind, standings, SP, skill/ability boosts or headstarts"...
We appear to be still awaiting CCP Zulu's definition of "gold ammo".
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helmut cheddar
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Javelin6
Originally by: CCP Zulu ...give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Thank You Zulu for that part. That's all I wanted to hear.
you mug, he said nothing about faction standings, ships, UI functionalities etc etc... just dismissed a very silly made up example from 1 of many rage threads.
how dumb are you ?
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Radix Salvilines
legion industries ltd AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 26/06/2011 19:19:51
ThE MaStEr PlAn:
STEP ONE - you tell us to wait a few more days to get the answers... that step is to make all things calm down and to show that youre willing to cooperate.
Poeople wont be protesting for a week - they will get bored with it by tomorrow (not including the forums of course).
STEP TWO - you stall the CSM then eventually make conclusion that "there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum". Why would you need CSM for that anyways by the way? answer - that step is to rebuild the feeling that CCP cares about its playerbase
STEP THREE - you deploy "gold ammo" anyway when its all ready (not just in parts as it was scheduled to be right now). ahahaha this step is because old playerbase can go f*** themselves. There are others coming - less demanding players that will fill the emptiness and grow.
CCP we will look at what you do and less of what you say.
Make an Incarna button and roll back noble store. AT THE MOMENT YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING!!!
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Xak Kion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[355]
I have to agree other the other members of the community is saying, we will be watching the actions taken, not what is said. I haven't been a member of the community as long some others, but honestly, I would have to say keep things the way they are and maybe improve a few things. EVE is one of the better running games today IMO, so why change it in a way that the community doesn't agree with and is more than willing to go else where because of it? I've seen how just the information was taken and how it upset the community over the past week, keep having issues with communication and/or not involving the communities opinion in the changes of the game, I'm sure that EVE will come crashing down just as others have.
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Khar Toba0182
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[356]
Consider me calmed, I dunno if this post will ever be read but I want to thank the CSM and CCP Zulu for representing our community, I will reserve judgement until I see the actual results from the Iceland meeting but yeah, you guys are awesome.
Also f*kin kudos to the community in general for standing up for itself. we're AWESOME!
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justme6
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[357]
Why this BS, you will not listen to what the CSM says anyway, you will NDA the whole meeting and roll out the changes you want and act like you're doing us all a favor. Why not just skype their marching orders to them and let us know if we do not count in this game: TODAY.
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Bklyn 1
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[358]
tl, dr: Let's buy time and hope things cool off.
[Damn, monocle profits have to go towards plane tickets]
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 -
[359]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/06/2011 19:20:55
Originally by: Vapidity To quote the blog: 'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes.
"gold ammo" is a WoT reference ffs...
the exact scope of that term is unclear but the parentheses should give you a clue that it is not to be understood literally...
here are some usage examples for you (from Mittani's last GSF CEO Update)
Quote: The real controversy, of course, is not the silliness of a $70 monocle, though that does seem to indicate the venality and greed of the CCP higher-ups to many players. The controversy is the shadow lurking behind the monocle, hinted at in the Greed is Good newsletter: gold in the sandbox, a "pay to win" gold-ammo situation in EVE. Pay to Win is common enough in Free to Play MMOs, and quite profitable, but the fear among players is that CCP is trying to meld both subscription and FtP revenue models into an especially ****ty, expensive product.
[...]
Meanwhile, Jita, Amarr and other hubs have been brought to virtual shutdown by 'protests' of pubbies shooting statues and overloading the nodes while howling for CCP's blood, mad about the NeX, the Captains Quarters, Incarna sucking, the spectre of gold ammo, or just setting things on fire for the sheer primal joy of watching everything burn.
[...]
I and the rest of the CSM have been extremely blunt in our demands that CCP issue a formal disavowal of 'gold ammo', non-vanity microtransactions, or otherwise bleeding gold into the sandbox of EVE. My impression is that a quick "Look, the monocles are expensive, but we're not doing gold ammo" would have ended this crisis days ago and CCP wouldn't be down at least 2500 accounts. The fact that CCP has remained silent on the issue is increasingly being taken to imply what everyone fears - that a company which would without irony charge $70 for a space monocle will issue $250 i-win lasers.
A few years ago, we saw the impact that 'oligarchs' had on the nullsec metagame, when Red Overlord had SerLordex spend a hundred thousand dollars on Eve Online, A Bad Game. The kind of economic distortion that would come from a legalized and pervasive 'gold ammo' style of gameplay would mean that, in order to stay competitive, every PvP entity would be obliged to acquire and use gameplay-enhancing gold items or suffer for their austerity. Perhaps some of you think that 'Pay to Win' is acceptable in a competitive subscription MMO; I do not.
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Goatse Girl
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 -
[360]
CCP Zulu, I want to able to purchase skill points from the aur store, please look into this if you haven't already
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moneykeeper
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 -
[361]
why not antagonise everyone by locking all threads other than this one?
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Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Sophie Rider We appear to be still awaiting CCP Zulu's definition of "gold ammo".
We are not waiting. It has already been answered, explained, and elaborated.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo. -------------------
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Evlyna
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 -
[363]
Edited by: Evlyna on 26/06/2011 19:21:59 It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough. At least not for everybody.
Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[364]
about time you spineless people.
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Alaura Aquila
Minmatar Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
--
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Zleon Leigh
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Sha Dar NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL
CCP Snookered the CSM about MT and then ignored their advice on communicating with the player base after everything went to hell.
You have made it very clear from your actions that you believe the CSM to be a sham. So we're supposed to respect the results of any further conversations you have with them??
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Random Lee
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[367]
Saying you are talking to the CSM is a delay tactic.
You are hoping that we will all get used to the game so that you don't have to revert back to pre-incarna.
You know the answer to the situation, waiting for the CSM to confirm it won't change anything.
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Laruen Pleides
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[368]
This blog post was a lot better than the previous. I can understand the skepticism by others when it comes to the "gold ammo" comment, and I think you, CCP Zulu, might have thought that term through a bit more carefully before using it. It is being torn apart, and taking into consideration the current lack of trust on the part of the users, it would be beneficial to not use generic terms to describe what is a serious issue to many.
Each post or comment by a CCP employee that does not state specifically "there will never be any non-vanity items sold via the Noble Exchange, or any other venue in Eve" is simply going to incur more accusations that you are hiding plans to do exactly that.
I am inclined to go with what several others have already said, and that is to focus on what CCP does at this time, not what is said.
You are speaking from the position of being part of an organization that stands accused of breaking promises and deceiving the players. Whether you deserve it or not, that is where you are, unfortunately.
With many people, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't, but there are a number of reasonable people here who are willing to listen to what you say, if you are clear and concise in your statements.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
-
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Sophie Rider
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Vapidity To quote the blog: 'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes.
"gold ammo" is a WoT reference ffs...
the exact scope of that term is unclear but the parentheses should give you a clue that it is not to be understood literally...
here are some usage examples for you (from Mittani's last GSF CEO Update)
Quote: The real controversy, of course, is not the silliness of a $70 monocle, though that does seem to indicate the venality and greed of the CCP higher-ups to many players. The controversy is the shadow lurking behind the monocle, hinted at in the Greed is Good newsletter: gold in the sandbox, a "pay to win" gold-ammo situation in EVE. Pay to Win is common enough in Free to Play MMOs, and quite profitable, but the fear among players is that CCP is trying to meld both subscription and FtP revenue models into an especially ****ty, expensive product.
[...]
Meanwhile, Jita, Amarr and other hubs have been brought to virtual shutdown by 'protests' of pubbies shooting statues and overloading the nodes while howling for CCP's blood, mad about the NeX, the Captains Quarters, Incarna sucking, the spectre of gold ammo, or just setting things on fire for the sheer primal joy of watching everything burn.
[...]
I and the rest of the CSM have been extremely blunt in our demands that CCP issue a formal disavowal of 'gold ammo', non-vanity microtransactions, or otherwise bleeding gold into the sandbox of EVE. My impression is that a quick "Look, the monocles are expensive, but we're not doing gold ammo" would have ended this crisis days ago and CCP wouldn't be down at least 2500 accounts. The fact that CCP has remained silent on the issue is increasingly being taken to imply what everyone fears - that a company which would without irony charge $70 for a space monocle will issue $250 i-win lasers.
A few years ago, we saw the impact that 'oligarchs' had on the nullsec metagame, when Red Overlord had SerLordex spend a hundred thousand dollars on Eve Online, A Bad Game. The kind of economic distortion that would come from a legalized and pervasive 'gold ammo' style of gameplay would mean that, in order to stay competitive, every PvP entity would be obliged to acquire and use gameplay-enhancing gold items or suffer for their austerity. Perhaps some of you think that 'Pay to Win' is acceptable in a competitive subscription MMO; I do not.
Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
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Blyghme
Gallente Strohl Munitions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 -
[371]
CCP Zulu, thanks for the apology. However, I'm going to be watching your (CCP's) actions more than your than words. The CSM trip is a step in the right direction, with any luck they'll be able to hammer into you why we're so up in arms about this.
The internal newsletter stated that CCP wanted to sell MT ships, items and ammo in the game. The ships have already caused a stink (IW Scorpion) when you attempted to introduce them. That action alone could be seen to be validating the Eve portion of the newsletter. The part by Soundwave is obviously an opinion-piece, but the rest reads as fact/policy.
If this blog had come out on Friday then my 3 accounts would not have been cancelled and I would not have subscribed to another MMO. I'll keep watching this situation but, assuming everything goes well, it'll be a minimum of 3 months before you could possibly see my subs again. I will not be playing my accounts until they expire, I walked away from playing this game when I hit cancel.
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Don Janitor Otichoda
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 -
[372]
Looks like CCP is trying to hide the problem again with such devblog I hope people will not believe his words and continue with the campaign against this unrespectable situation
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Pandora Shadow
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 -
[373]
Understand that change isn't always immeadite. Flame me for what I'm about to say, but seriously, calm down. The fact that these guys are coming out and saying what they are saying has to take a lot of ball grabbing. So instead of busting on them and making a bigger deal, let the CSMs do what they do but and represent us. No amount of whining, pyramid quoting, and requoting the same post over and over is going to do any good.
To that note: yes, unsubbing shows the community's reaction. Heck, shooting a statue and locking down trade hubs is also a reaction, but really, some of the things i've seen and heard ingame (Ala DIAF) are a bit extreme. We've shown how pleased we are with CCP's decisions, let them react to it, even if it is a slow one.
So guys, put down your pitch forks and let the mayor of the town speak.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Swecyborg
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[375]
Find it hard to belive that ccp manegment cant respond without the csm. This i just an oil spill to calm people down. The CSM are just a front CCP always do what they want anyway. But i will wait untill the matter is resolved. If Non vanity items is introduced to NeX i will cancel my 5 accounts have been playing since 2004 so it will be a sad day for me.
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[376]
Originally by: ifollowed through
why do CCP need to talk to the CSM to answer a very simple YES or NO QUESTION ?
They don't it's just another DELAY TACTIC. Otherwise they would have a conference call and get us information in a few hours instead of some needless face-to-face.
The more this drags on the more I wonder why I play this game anymore.
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Sha Kharn
Minmatar Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Totaly this ^
We have not only spoken but many have also acted. Balls in your court now and I hope you dont f%%k up a game I love.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[378]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.
No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums.
Telling someone to "Die in a fire" is the modern equivalent telling someone to **** off it's no more a threat telling someone to go F themselves.
As such unbanning Helicity makes perfect sense. I also think that Liang should be unbanned as well as anyone else who was banned for the leaks.
Doing so would go a long way to diffusing some of the tempers that are running high and would cost CCP nothing.
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Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.
Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.
They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo. -------------------
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Android Mindslave
Gallente Mindworks
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[380]
_Very predictable stalling_
Not listening to what you say, looking for what you do.
Was on Perpetuum last night, one of their Dev's laid it out bare in chat what their priorities were: sever stability>>gameplay>>fancy ****. |
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Deja Blue
Gallente Vimana Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[381]
With his second blog post, CCP Zulu, still has not given a straight answer.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Tell it like it is.
We ARE going to have pay to win, non vanity items.
Forge ahead with a highly researched micro-transaction schema designed to net profits over veteran player retention.
Infuse EVE with new players.
Introduce new means to empower ones character.
Change the scope and development of EVE forever.
BE FEARLESS
At least THEN I could respect CCP.
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Dinta Zembo
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 -
[382]
Edited by: Dinta Zembo on 26/06/2011 19:24:54
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Now please post another blog which actually says 'there will never be' because that's what we asked for, get it now?
Edit: I suppose "gold ammo" represents all non-vanity items? In which case, ^that
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Inka Tsarifi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[383]
plan: have each non-vanity item sold as the modified version of an item bought from the in-game market (players), it must also have the same gameplay attributes (because p2w is bad). This effectivley makes non-vanity items vanity items, and it also avoids breaking Eve's economy, as it's in fact just another version of the PLEX system, except this one exploits ego.
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Evolutionairy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Leah Pendragon "The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."
Promising
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
Too vaugue, a better response would a blanket statement regarding non vanity MT rather than gold ammo. The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.
what you do, not what you say...
This.
I'm quite new to EVE after finally having stopped caring about a F2P (P2W) game I used to play, where the edges of reason were pushed out further and further. I now only visit that game sporadically to catch up with friends without spending a penny. It's been rough cutting loose from clan-obligations and such.
I'm very cautious about ever getting emotionally invested in another game after that. I was just starting to think EVE might be a place to build something up again, maybe even join a corp, before all this happened. We will see if trust can be regained.
I will remain unsubbed for now.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[385]
This part of the blog:
'and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy'.
What's to define about non-vanity items, no SP for sale, no faction rep for sale.
Doubt this is over yet.
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Laendra
Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[386]
Edited by: Laendra on 26/06/2011 19:26:55 Sorry, a lot of us just don't trust you anymore...you've broken our trust in you too many times.
Your words appear to be a play on words, without outright answering our real concerns. If non-vanity items are off the table for now and all time, tell us that. If not, stay silent and we will continue to believe what Fearless pointed out in the first place.
Remember, a person's first response is usually the one they really meant, whether or not they say "Just joking"...we've seen your first response, and we know you weren't just joking....and that goes all the way to the top. CCP, you have ****ed yourselves hard this week. Remember that when you wallet has that big gaping hole in it from loss of subscriptions (you've lost 12 subscriptions {that is over $2100 a year, and we've been playing since the year you launched...that's 35 monocles to offset the 52}..from me and my family...some of whom were already on a break...from this fiasco). -------------------
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Eterna Unum
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[387]
tl;dr Watching what you do and not what you say.
The rest has already been said in this threadnaught
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Inipinipocoloco
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[388]
until ccp show action we show action
btw if u have multi accounts dont cancel all at once - cancel one a day
we want ccp to see what we DO clearly
why should we give a ratsass about what ccp says if they dont give a ratass about what we say
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[389]
fair enough, you want to get the CSM out to iceland to discuss this all. Not exactly sure what more the CSM can tell you about what the community want than has already been posted in the forums, but whatever... have your meeting.
However, once its over you NEED to produce a statment that clearly explains to us as to what CCPs stance will be on our concerns and promises as to where you are going with future development.
We will be waiting and watching.....
------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[390]
Keep unsubbing, we are almost there. STAY THE COURSE.
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Sophie Rider
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.
Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.
They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
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Hoya en Marland
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:25:00 -
[392]
Just keep the protests rolling until that meeting with CSM is over. Then we'll see.
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[393]
i feel like ccp doesn't take my internet spaceships seriously enough >:O
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Exordium8
Minmatar Not a Shell Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[394]
We'll see what happens, but seems like a good first step. --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Telion Rethson
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[395]
Originally by: CCP Zulu There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
This is good - as long as you actually listen to them, and don't simply dismiss what they, and we, have to say, as the leaked email seems to suggest your CEO wants you to.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Assuming you mean 'any kind of non-vanity item' by 'gold ammo', this is the exact question many, many, many, many, many players here on the forum and elsewhere have been asking of everyone at CCP, and which has, until now, not been answered at all - including in your previous devblog. This suggests, if nothing else, that CCP, as a company, has a MAJOR problem when it comes to effectively communicating with it's playerbase. Top priority, if you're genuine about 'strengthening our deep mutual trust and respect' (though I would use the word 'regaining', not 'strengthening'), is sorting that problem out.
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Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Krista Porch Braxton Yep, they're sorry. Sorry that Fearless got leaked.
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Onsa Boo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[397]
That we are left arguing here over exactly what the reference to 'gold ammo' means is fckin ridiculous. Why can't we get a straight answer.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Alrione Keep unsubbing, we are almost there. STAY THE COURSE.
Quit already and stop posting. The sooner your all gone the better.
MT will be good for Eve and Good for the player and remember dumb ****, its OPTIONAL. You dont have to buy any of the ****.
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Jimmae
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Jimmae on 26/06/2011 19:26:53 My 3 accounts stay unsubscribed until you act. Words don't matter. Hillmar said so.
Regards, Jimmae
Edit: Spelling...
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Hel Xaphod
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[400]
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
It's actually called "premium ammo", and we don't remember ever saying anything about no MT in Eve... where would you get that silly notion?
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Baihuigau
Gallente Skull Brigade
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[401]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4 <-- This to be honest
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Grep Oskold
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Onsa Boo That we are left arguing here over exactly what the reference to 'gold ammo' means is fckin ridiculous. Why can't we get a straight answer.
that's called tactics
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Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[403]
Hey guys, it's all okay now, CCP has never been known to go back on their word before.
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makansutra
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[404]
This account was due to expire in less than 24hrs. However, be warned CCP you have 30 days (instead of my usual 6 months) to sort this or i'm gone - 3 accounts. No false promises or lies. fix it i'll quite happily give my hard earned crust to some other gaming company!
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[405]
Zulu: Thank you for taking the time to once again express nothing of real importance. I do like the fact that CCP is so scared of this sh*t storm that they're actually going to listen to the CSM hahaha. Wow, you really bit off something nasty tasting if you're going to listen to our elected representatives. OMG! \o/ for the CSM.
As for directing our concerns to the CSM - I'm pretty sure 100% of the CSM already know what question we want answered. How do I know this? Because I know they can read, which is apparently more than I can say for you or Hilmar. 100% more love? I'll give you 50% more love (because you did apologize) and 50% more smoke blown up our asses and 110% no question answered.
I think many of us do understand that the newletter was meant to spark debate. I'd say it did it's job swimmingly. It did so well, in fact, at sparking debate I would suggest CCP share its internal newletters with their players from now on. You wanted debate... Isn't that what you got? Albeit with pitchforks and torches and a mad mob of people burning down the castle.
I think many of us also understand that the very topic CCP is discussing internally, whether for purposes of debate or not, is the very topic that CCP said they would never do. CCP said they would never have microtransactions in Eve, and then they arrive with nary a warning and in an environment where you are forced to walk around a couch or... buy very overpriced and mostly useless sh*t and look at yourself in the mirror. Can you blame your customers for feeling fleeced? The very fact that you're having that discussion as it relates to Eve Online is a violation of our trust. What part of that do you not get, because you keep going back to how its being taken out of context. What other context can there be besides 'we said we'd never do this' then 'oh, here's microtransactions with Incarna, btw' then 'greed is good' then 'we're sorry you don't want to buy $1000 jeans' then 'see, we sold 52 monocles - it's working!'? If there is another context we should be taking all of this in... please... do tell. Don't keep telling us we don't understand. We're not your average bear, Yogi.
So, to reitterate the question everyone wants to know:
Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
Telling us you have no plans and never had plans to sell gold ammo is not very comforting when, really, if you think our primary concern is gold ammo then you, my friend, have missed the point entirely. It just shows more disconnect. Really, you should have just said the 'we'll talk tot he CSM' part. It's the only thing that is really relevant since you can't be arsed to answer one simple question. And by not answering that question we already know that's your plan. It's been your plan all along I'm sure. This isn't rocket science, and even if it was I have Rocket Science lvl 5 (I do love using that). C'mon man - just be honest with your players. Will we leave if you're going to implement non-vanity items in the MT store? Yes, yes we will.
Mistake after mistake, blunder after blunder. I do hope the CSM can talk some sense into you. I'm not counting on it - I'm really more counting on the CSM coming back aghast at your future plans and not getting anywhere near getting the answer that will keep us here. In other words, you're going to use the CSM as damage control now because it's convenient to do so. Throw the CSM under the bus and let them be the ones to break the bad news. Of all the sleazy backhanded... I give up. I've wasted too much time trying to talk sense into you already. Good luck with any future position you may have had hopes for there bud. You've shot your career in the foot. You'll probably be a laughing stock to any other company should CCP finally falter and die. I do hope you have some money saved up for your early retirement... or don't mind flipping burgers for a living.
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Anna Maziarczyk
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 -
[406]
MOVED FROM GENERAL
Edited by: Anna Maziarczyk on 26/06/2011 19:22:17 (not neccessarily being facetious. Some perspective if you make it that far in the post)
Am i the only one that thinks CCP needs to fire Anthony Weiners PR Team and hire someone else?
Serious.
He confirms his last devBlog as being a RAGE RANT?
He confirms dogging us out. Because of his $1000 pants addiction?
CONFIRMS OUTRAGE/BETRAYAL OVER LEAK? (this one seriously perplexes my dome)
OUTRIGHT addresses the MAJOR issue, without addressing the major issue, with a comment that pretty much says "YEAH, but were gonna be dishonest till its released."
I kinda feel sorry for CCP now. Despite everything.
I think we really do need to keep all of this in perspective. CCP has a CAPTAIN of the ship. And then hundreds of employees. I think for the most part the Team is doing what they can, but the SHIP is still driven by the Captain.
And to be quite honest, the Captain drove the ship into ROUGH WATERS, and the team is doing everything they can to keep the ship afloat.
I feel like that scene in the TITANIC movie where the ship is going down, yet the Band plays on.....
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Georgiy Giggle
The Sith Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 -
[407]
Better then nothing. Now I realy hope CSM councils are on the side of balanced game, with no donatable currency and microtransactions. Let's see what will be next.
Deep in my soul i know that protest is still not over... and ready to protest again.
Waiting for 30th of June and 1st of July.
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Snake Johnson
Gallente JOVE INC
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 -
[408]
what you do... not what you say.
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Daelorn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 -
[409]
Personally I don't want the aurum store at all. Nothing.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Courthouse Hey guys, it's all okay now, CCP has never been known to go back on their word before.
lmao
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Neom Disaki
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 -
[411]
In order for me to resubscribe, I'll need to read that not only are there no plans for any non-vanity items for RL cash now, but that this will never ever ever ever exist in EVE.
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Sophie Rider
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.
Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.
They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
Getting personal does no favours to your argument. All I am asking for is a clear definition of what CCP Zulu was trying to say. If it is in writing, it makes it very hard to then claim that that is not what he meant.
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Leon Razor
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Hoya en Marland Just keep the protests rolling until that meeting with CSM is over. Then we'll see.
No, the protests got their attention and they are finally taking action. Stop protests to give them a chance to talk with the CSM and give us a reply. We have a time frame now, so what is the point of lagging the game for another week while they are meeting with the CSM.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 -
[414]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 26/06/2011 19:29:23
Originally by: Dinta Zembo
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
Now please post another blog which actually says 'there will never be' because that's what we asked for, get it now?
He can't.
Why do have an internal document debating selling non-vanity virtual goods? Why does one of your beloved game designers say "I want to sell much more things" (even if it was "played" or "ordered")? Why do you implement a MT store and start off with prices far beyond anything else ever seen in the industry? Why do you not come forth and clearly say "We will not do that"?
Because you are still trying to find a way to do it!
Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one: They don't say it because they don't mean it.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Evolutionairy
Originally by: Leah Pendragon "The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."
Promising
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
Too vaugue, a better response would a blanket statement regarding non vanity MT rather than gold ammo. The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.
what you do, not what you say...
This.
I'm quite new to EVE after finally having stopped caring about a F2P (P2W) game I used to play, where the edges of reason were pushed out further and further. I now only visit that game sporadically to catch up with friends without spending a penny. It's been rough cutting loose from clan-obligations and such.
I'm very cautious about ever getting emotionally invested in another game after that. I was just starting to think EVE might be a place to build something up again, maybe even join a corp, before all this happened. We will see if trust can be regained.
I will remain unsubbed for now.
Good. I hope you dont come back. I dont want your stuff, I have better. Now go play with tanks or something.
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Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:30:31
Originally by: Consortium Agent Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet. -------------------
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GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Cadela Fria I guess I will be the first to say that this have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.
But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation. I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting. As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us
Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.
I second this motion
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Raven IPS I feel like gold ammo here is an analogy for all Non-vanity items. Good job CCP.
Don't feel.
Know.
And when you cannot know, e.g. because you are faced with a statement that is not 100% clear and 100% unambiguous, then maintain a keen awareness of the fact that you do not know.
-- Salpad |
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Alrione Keep unsubbing, we are almost there. STAY THE COURSE.
Quit already and stop posting. The sooner your all gone the better.
MT will be good for Eve and Good for the player and remember dumb ****, its OPTIONAL. You dont have to buy any of the ****.
Way to miss the point. Go read the forums again. I will complain as long as i have time remaining.
And supporting mt in P2P game, really? Maybe you should go play korean p2w grinders as that seems to be more of your type of the game.
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Brys Bennedict
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 -
[420]
I'm not really too convinced. It's an effort, but it comes across half hearted. You didn't listen to CSM before, but now you want us to wait a week and then deal with it? Sounds like a stall tactic to me.
I like this game, despite what you continue to do with it. But I refuse to pay money to what is starting to reek like what SOE started doing ten years ago....you know, the "If you don't like it, go elsewhere" and "We hear what you're saying, but we're doing things our way anyways," and we can't forget SWG's NGE. This was when SWG was going to bring in new players.....and only succeeded in alienating a loyal player base. What happened to SWG? It shuts down in Dec. I'd suggest you learn from their mistakes as history has a way of repeating itself for those that do not learn from it.
Still unsubbed until convinced otherwise. Going over to Perpetuum is looking REALLY good right now, especially when you continue to acrue skill points without having to have skills in queue. Maybe it's time another indie developer rose as this one seems to be too full of itself.
LISTEN to the people that pay your bills, or you can start laying people off and shutting down servers (and even offices) like SOE has been forced to do recently.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Sophie Rider
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[422]
So Malka, does "Ships to ammo" include SP and faction standings then?
Just so that we are clear.
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Evlyna
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Evlyna on 26/06/2011 19:32:12
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Originally by: Evlyna It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough. At least not for everybody.
Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.
They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.
You missed my edit, your mental capacity seems to be on par with mine.
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
Wow, as if experience in the past made that real. Ha ha, you're funny.
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Hel Xaphod
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Georgiy Giggle Better then nothing. Now I realy hope CSM councils are on the side of balanced game, with no donatable currency and microtransactions. Let's see what will be next.
Deep in my soul i know that protest is still not over... and ready to protest again.
Waiting for 30th of June and 1st of July.
Actually, it is nothing, unless your count smoke and mirrors as something. It is a delay tactic first, and a means to control the discussion second. Unless they release the CSM from the NDA, it is also pointless, since we would never know what they couldn't tell us.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[425]
Originally by: makansutra This account was due to expire in less than 24hrs. However, be warned CCP you have 30 days (instead of my usual 6 months) to sort this or i'm gone - 3 accounts. No false promises or lies. fix it i'll quite happily give my hard earned crust to some other gaming company!
Please dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Sooner your gone the better. Now just go and dont come back, Eve will be better off without you.
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Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[426]
CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
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Bendy Profane
The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Cyber Duck
Quote: This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all
The only meaning of a piece of text is the text itself...
Learn how to do literary criticism properly.
Not like there's more than one school.
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[428]
guys imagine what could have happened if that fearless didn't get leaked, that's what frightens me.
we'd have to deal with a nasty surprise patches of fail. you cheacky ccp ****ers, i'll never trust anything from devs again
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Harcun Fellon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 -
[429]
Nothing but a PR stunt. I'm out, biomass in 9 hrs.
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GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside
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Auric Aurumfinger
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[431]
Who was the PR that let you post that other knee deep in jerkiness blog post?
You guys consult marketing geniuses (no pun intended) to create a Habbo Hotel (http://www.habbo.com/) in Space, but lack the communication skills to talk to people in a proper manner. Bullying the player base will not get you customers.
I consider acceptable in the Gold Shop:
1. Paint Jobs for Ships. 2. Decals and pictures to the Hulls (like WWII bomber crews used to). 3. Expanding the Captain's Quarters with other modules, like a bathroom with a pool. 4. Selling Captain's Quarters furniture, lighting, etc. 5. Selling minigames, like pimball machines to be in a fun room. 6. Clothing in general. 7. Hats, bandanas, eye patches for pirates arrrr. 8. A Parrot. You know... for pirates shoulders. 9. Pets, to WiS beside you and mourn when you get shot in the head by a Merc.
People will buy this crap. All the games that do that have a revenue coming exactly from selling these virtual goods.
Would be much better if Parrots and Pets were genetically engineered beings to be a product in the market, but oh well, you need to make a living.
Good luck to the CSM.
Aurum is Gold in Latin EVE Online - The Gold is CCP's |
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[432]
Edited by: Lemming Lass on 26/06/2011 19:33:37 (facepalm)
The CSM are needed here? FFS, if reading the forums doesn't help you "define and address the real underlying concerns", then I don't know if anything will. Sounds like a stall tactic more than an honest outreach.
* People want an intermediate step between space and Incarna...namely the old dock view. Should be easy as pie.
* Deal with system resource issues involved with Incarna.
* People generally don't want MT, but if there is MT, clearly promise that it will not affect game mechanics, that there is no "pay to win" element. Vanity/cosmetic items only.
*The turret animations are neat, but the icons are not clear and distinct enough to be useful as icons.
*Communicate better.
There, I saved you the time and expense of involving the CSM. But I wasted my time because all these things have been stated hundreds of times already.
You're welcome.
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Rion Deteisan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:34:50 Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:33:56
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
(it was going to be platinum ammo)
OR
(it was only going to be ships)
OR
(Great idea!!.. lets call in CSM to see if we can make plans to do gold ammo too!)
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Mag Theron
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[434]
Thank you CCP Zulu for your communication on this issue.
While there is certainly much work to be done to rebuild the trust that has been lost over the past few days, I am glad to see CCP moving in what I believe to be a positive direction.
I will await the outcome of your meeting with the CSM with great interest, and I hope to see further positive actions in the days to come.
o7 Mag
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Don Aubaris
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:33:00 -
[435]
Well this goes in the right direction. Although it contains some strange stuff too.
If you can't deduce what your customers want from the 1000's posts on the forums there is something wrong.
And saying there will be no 'gold' ammo is way to vague. So we gonna have purple ones with yellow dots? No usable items is what people wonna hear. But apparantly CCP is still not prepared to say that. I'm kinda scared for the CSM's. They probably dangle them above a volcano to make them see the wisdom of selling usuable stuff.
The policy of CCP should be clear : the use of PLEX is completely optional and shall never give an advantage that is not reachable by hard work and ISK. (and buying PLEX with ISK is also always optional)
But let's hope for the best. |
Xzan
The Reformed Bondage Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:34:00 -
[436]
I have to ask what possessed CCP Zulu to write the inflammatory dev blog in the first place? If he felt incensed and frustrated by the situation he could have simply said that they were taking note of our concerns and would meet to discuss the issues draft a proper response in the coming week to address our concerns not flame about $1000 pants etc..
Then again Devs are human too....
Anyway actions speak louder than blogs and we'll have to see what happens in the mean time. Perhaps people should cool off on protests and threadnaughts until CCP meet the CSM and let the answers and actions of CCP dictate our response.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:34:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Harcun Fellon Nothing but a PR stunt. I'm out, biomass in 9 hrs.
Like anyone gives a **** about you. You wont be missed. NPC alt for 9 months. Lol
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Atsair Raholan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:35:00 -
[438]
Edited by: Atsair Raholan on 26/06/2011 19:36:11
Originally by: Daelorn Personally I don't want the aurum store at all. Nothing.
If it remains entirely a cosmetic thing I don't see what the problem is at all. The possibility of the whole "pay to win" thing is troubling, but if the future shows it to be a store full of only vanity items, who really cares? This whole mentality that a business shouldn't look for new opportunities to generate revenue is just beyond absurd.
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Aineko Macx
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:35:00 -
[439]
Until the next Hilmar Email is leaked we can't decide if the motto still is "Stay The Course".
The other unanswered question is of course: How do you feel about the fact that your main investor has known russian mafia connections? ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:35:00 -
[440]
Edited by: DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf on 26/06/2011 19:37:05 Keep the protests rolling, unsubbing and demanding answers, just because they said gold ammo isn't in does not mean gold ships, modules, implants, etc are ruled out. Until Mittani says they aren't going non-vanity do not under any circumstance take the latest dev blog at face value (be it good or bad in your eyes), it is too vague and slightly uninformative as to the degree at which "non-vanity" items will not be included in NeX. Don't get me wrong I want to believe but to paraphrase Hilmar's e-mail (which he did not even touch upon, though he did say leaks not leak, which lends credence to this e-mail being authentic) "watch what they do not what they say" because in the end to debate a closed topic is pointless and yet CCP did just that. Actions CCP, not words. Mittani hate to break it to ya man but you're gonna have to take lead here, for null sec, low sec and high sec, make CSM be what it's meant to be and not just a rubber stamper.
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Uther Istavel
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:36:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
+1 Action speaks louder than words.
Because lets be honest people, the **** storm thats currently in effect isnt going away any time soon, so what were they going to say?
'yes, youre completely right'
that would be career and corporate suicide, 'no' is the only answer they could give at this stage, no matter what their intentions.
WE'll just need to wait and see. A good start would be complete removal of AUR. _______________________________________________
Profit isnt a reason, its an excuse. |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:36:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Leah Pendragon The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.
This.
And if CCP are so strapped for cash, why not just increase subscription costs slightly, like from 15 euro per month to 17 euro per month, and a corresponding increase in ETC prices? It's been 15 for over 4 years now. I can live with a small amount of inflation.
-- Salpad |
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:36:00 -
[443]
Nicely put apology.. the description of you emotions definitely made it sound sincire. I still wouldn't want to hang out with you if you wear $1000 japanese jeans though.... or anyone else with that set of values.
All I personally want to be confident about is that GAME design, Game Balance, and the vast majority of development resources are focussed on balancing play with the expecations of those that do not make MTs on top of their subscription
EVE has always been extrodinary at having a diverse offering of ships and roles so that someone at any level of the game can play a real role to any battle or skirmish. Thats not to say that any ship or any pilot with greater cost will win 1v1
With all the work done on Incarna, I'm a bit po'd that you guys couldn't find the time to slightly adjust one or two variables on ships that you have admitted in the "every quesiton" thread. Even if you don't have time to do a comprehensive revue, you could make the problem less pronounced.. lower damage of fighter bombers a bit, LOWER SPEED of dramiel.. 5 10 or 20 km per sec.. even lowering it 1 km per second would show some movement in the right direction.... if you can't get it right make it a little less bad till you can get it right. Similar issues with the Tengu
Why do i bring those up? I was always of the impression that the development team had the best interests of combat dynamics at heart but the newsletter , the priorities that were put into place int the release , and other between the lines suggestions in your's and others responses (even if apologized for) really makes me question if selling more MT or $>plex>isk is why you like to have a ship like the dramiel which makes the far cheaper interceptor obsolete.
I trusted the love for the competitive aspects of the game and the importance those have in attracting players as the top priority of the team. But now its in doubt.. dispell that doubt and the MTs are fine... for me even it they somewhat enhance the opposition as long as there are strategic ways to dampen the effect of those advantages
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Novon Toll
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:36:00 -
[444]
Edited by: Novon Toll on 26/06/2011 19:36:42 Nice punt CCP, but it's hard to believe your motives are pure with the replies and communication we've received so far. I wont repeat everyone's comments except to say:
Don't wear your $1000 jeans for the CSM meeting as I think there will be some a$$ to chewed.
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Hathius Scalpcleaver
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:37:00 -
[445]
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Cadela Fria I guess I will be the first to say that this have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.
But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation. I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting. As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us
Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.
I second this motion
I'm inclined to agree with this very much.
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Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:37:00 -
[446]
Hey Zulu, and those you represent
First of all, thanks for taking the time to respond again, on what is presumably your day off.
While the decision to wait another week to respond fully is somewhat depressing, the fact that it is so that the CSM can be flown out there is, in my eyes, indicative of the fact that the entire situation is being treated seriously by management within CCP.
There are as many opinions as there are players in this game, and I hope that CCP as a company (not just the forum moderators) will reflect fully on the thousands of opinions expressed on these forums, rather than sit on it for another week until the CSM gets there.
I hope that between the player base, the CSM, and CCP employees (and management) we can come to a mutually agreeable & beneficial solution.
Look forward to hearing more soon.
KV o7
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Margin D'Martian
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:37:00 -
[447]
Well, Hilmar put it best.
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our devs do and less of what they say."
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Pavel Bidermann
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:37:00 -
[448]
Really? That took days to write? In that time the forums here and around the web exploded, the store has become an industry joke, CCP's releases have been publicly viewed as insane, The relationship between CCP, CSM and the players has been badly damaged if not destroyed, rumors of the company being sold circulating on the internet and an exodus to "the next game". CCP's answer is to say nothing for another week? Another company might be trying to address this and put the revolt down, but not CCP. Let it burn! Perhaps they have not heard of this "internet" or these "phones". Some people are even using a thing they call "e-mail". It's a letter, but it uses no paper! Probably just a passing fad though.....
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Dark Kano I wonder if the CSM enjoy being puppets and scapegoats?
-
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MC187
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[450]
looks like a carefully crafted blog to me. no wonder it took PR so long.
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
classic delay/diversion tactic. announce an emergency meeting to quell some of the playerbase. no answers to anything directly nor touch other issues at this time.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
counterquote from page 9 of fearless:
Quote: CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
so which is it?
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Kainulf
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[451]
Edited by: Kainulf on 26/06/2011 19:38:47 Let's get this commitment to "no gold-ammo, ever" into the EULA, shall we CSM?
"Noise in the channel." "Very predictable feedback."
4000+ subscriptions cancelled Major trade hubs locked down
STAY THE COURSE |
Garrance
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Wearfield
CCP!! You already know how we feel, it's all over the internet. Meeting with CSM achieves nothing.
Sure it does, it allows them to give us the silent treatment (he says as much FFS!) for another WEEK or MORE.
As others have said you do not need to fly the damn CSM to iceland and make us wait. If you indeed need to talk to them to understand our issues (despite the hundreds of pages of us telling you) then do it by skype. Or isn't making all of us WAIT of concern? Or is it the POINT?
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Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[453]
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside
The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats.
As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic.
If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:38:00 -
[454]
Originally by: MC187 looks like a carefully crafted blog to me. no wonder it took PR so long.
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
classic delay/diversion tactic. announce an emergency meeting to quell some of the playerbase. no answers to anything directly nor touch other issues at this time.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
counterquote from page 9 of fearless:
Quote: CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
so which is it?
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 19:40:38
Originally by: Malka Badi'a I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet.
Or you can stop posting it and accept the fact that they have picked a slang term and put it in quotes, which gives them two levels of fudge factor.
Clarity and specificity is what's needed here, and that is not it.
If that is indeed what they mean, then it will be trivial to post and say so in no unclear terms and remove the doubt that some people are having. There is absolutely no reason not to do so. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 -
[456]
I have this novel, NEVER heard before question for Zulu:
Will aurum items move beyond non-vanity items?
ALL aurum items and FOREVER?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Kraxalious
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.
No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums.
Telling someone to "Die in a fire" is the modern equivalent telling someone to **** off it's no more a threat telling someone to go F themselves.
As such unbanning Helicity makes perfect sense. I also think that Liang should be unbanned as well as anyone else who was banned for the leaks.
Doing so would go a long way to diffusing some of the tempers that are running high and would cost CCP nothing.
"Die in a fire" is akin to them telling us "gold ammo"
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Akara Ito
Amarr Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:39:00 -
[458]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
So you're gonna talk to the CSM, tell them to **** off, tell them they cant speak about that because of NDA, and then tell the community "CSM agreed" ?
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Mzee Machado
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[459]
Edited by: Mzee Machado on 26/06/2011 19:44:24 This is unsatisfactory. However, let's be creative and try to save your wallets and our need for immersion? How about creating a virtual banking system? I love to fly my spaceship, but I also recognize your need to make money.
The EVE community is as complex as can be and needs some mechanism to control the economy better than today. The influx of PLEX is a liability, while AUR does not solve your need for cash. If the prices had been a fraction of what they currently are, it could work as a temporary fix. Either AUR goes or PLEX does. Either way, we need an in-game bank to create larger economic possibilities both in-game and RL.
For those of you having read Charles Stross Halting state an in-game bank has its problems as well, but it is a brilliant concept. We, as players, are interested in investing real money into virtual property and security. Even for game-changing objects if they are a plausible part of a storyline, e.g. a prototype blueprint with DUST514 tech or weapons or whatever.
It is necessary to balance the vanity of RL money and in-game skills. A great pilot is never going to submit to a noob. A great industrialist will always have much influence. Provided their experience and time invested is honoured, no problem with seeing a looser buy a battleship and rent a pilot to bring a floating corpse back. Skillpoint sale? No. Jove spaceships for AUR? No.
Those investing countless of hours and ultimately making you successful must be safe in their knowledge that they can keep their sandbox evolving to a real virtual society according to their interest. EVE is similar to the outside in its need for a better economic framework. The similarity end where I in EVE can shoot someone in the face. I do not do that RL.
How are we podpilots going to be able to trade and interact with other MMOs in-game when there are different rules and not the least differently sized economies in each and everyone? We produce stuff and can offer great logistic support. Our services include superior firepower. How can CCP earn money utilizing our skills? How can we walk in-station and planetside without bleeding out of our ears or having our experience of immersion shattered?
A bank system can lower the imbalance between different economies. A bank earn money by their services and are powerful instruments in world economy. Since we live in a virtual society, our banks can be better than real life banks even. Not sc***ing us over at every opportunity I mean, risking our assets on hair-brained schemes. There are probably players that are ready to step up and assume the roles of managers. With guns of course.
Let me invest in development. I don't need much back, just some interest on my investment and the security that my assets are safe. Heck, I'd pay real money for in-station services offering cyborg implants so that I could walk normal while we wait for the grunts. Maharaba |
Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[460]
Originally by: CCP Zulu I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
Thanks you, those are a good choice of words. Sincere. Human. Happy to be making steps in a familiar direction ... forward, to make EVE and CCP's strategy a mutually rewarding success.
[Cy + blog] This song sums up my current feelings about NeX. |
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[461]
We already know non-vanity items must have been on the table for the MT shop otherwise they could have just gave an answer almost as quickly as the Sony saga.
So is it a 'U' turn or are they seeking a compromise with the CSMs.
I'm not convinced either.
I'll stay unsubscribed, see what the CSM fiasco dredges up.
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Molten Black
Omber Company Knights of the Rising Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[462]
You let Eve burn for 3 days and stood back and watched the flames when you could have posted that blog in the first 5 minutes.
Something is wrong here.
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Hikuri Ssuvienne
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[463]
Thanks for the blog Zulu. As a new player who just recently discovered this unique game, I've followed the developments after Incarna with some considerable alarm. From my chair some of the vitriol slung at CCP has been excessive and out of line, while some has been fair and well thought out. I think much of this could have been avoided with a faster responce, but at least bridges are being mended so everyone can get back to internet spaceships.
Personally I've got no issues with MT for vanity items, but it's good to see that non-vanity items are not on the cards. I'll look forward to hearing how the CSM meeting goes.
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Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:40:00 -
[464]
CCP, you don't need to bother with the time or expense of meeting with the CSM in Iceland.
Nothing you can do is going to placate the masses OR save the tens of thousands of subscribers you have already lost until you understand the following and react accordingly:
WE DO NOT WANT RMT IN EVE.
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Doctor Deals
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:41:00 -
[465]
GOLD IS A COLOR AND AN ELEMENT!
GOLD DOES NOT MEAN MICROTRANSACTIONS!
SAYING "GOLD" ONLY DILUTES YOUR RESPONSE
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Xander Hunt
Minmatar Dead Rats Tell No Tales
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:41:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
EVE Community. I am disappointed in how little faith you had in a company that some of you have been with for seven years, and how you allowed your groupthink to overpower your ability to use formal logic and deduction regarding what may be opinion and what may be debate. But, you have my undying respect for showing passion, and love, for the game that many of us hold dear.
Its RW corporate propaganda that we're seeing here, not Zulu or Zinfadel (or however you spell his name) that are doing this DIRECTLY. (I admit, I posted that I wanted Zinfadel fired, but only because I hate the kind of job he's in, and how he tries to execute it so well. Its not about him, its about how things have changed in the past 6 months alone) I have little to no faith in *ANY* company (including the one I work for) that has investors, as investors want nothing more than more money. With all seriousness, they'll push the boundries to get monies in, and when it dries up, walk away knowing they made a profit. Its taken a few years for CCP to get to the point where investors are ... instigating and trying to enforce ideas to get more RW monies out of the system, be it due to borrowing for dev'n of Dust or whatever. Monetary-Investors suck the life out of a game (or anything) faster than a shop-vac sucks up water. Investors have passion for money, not passion for the game and its mechanics.
The only investors I have any patience for are the people who invest non-monetary ideals into something, such as passion, wisdom, intelligence, time, ideas, love, hate, interest. Its no wonder Jita and Amarr are on fire as we, the players, are so invested in this game, we don't want to see the mechanics change. We, the players, are investors as well, CCP. Money may make things work, but we're what makes all of this worth while, not money.
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Iden Secundus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 -
[467]
Why should we believe you? You did lie us.
Your task is to lie us. So you are lying us
Trust? How? Why?
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 -
[468]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 26/06/2011 19:43:17 The right response from CSM would be:
"We will meet with CCP to discuss concerns regarding Incarna only after CCP publicly recommits to a stand against selling non-vanity items via microtransactions. Everything else may be negotiable; this is not."
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XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[469]
We will watch what you do not what you say. You did not commit to no mt for advantage when the question is of the most dire importance. You think you are buying time but we will ensure our actions continue.
We are eve We do not forgive We do not forget Expect us
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Vincentus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[470]
Edited by: Vincentus on 26/06/2011 19:44:39 Well, I'm glad you guys finally made a serious commitment to communicate with your customers, and from the tone of your blog I feel like you people have finally realized you have a serious problem on your hands. I am worried about the wording of the gold ammo sentence, as it seems to me that it is obvious that it would have been a lot easier and clearer if you had just said non-vanity items. Inviting the CSM gives me hope however, and I sincerely hope you listen to them. It's in your own interest...
I have 8 days of subscription left, so you have until then to convince me of your good intentions. I will cease protesting and posting here, but please realize I'm not going to make an effort to get the message through again, and that if you screw up again I'm gone without saying another word, and you can add another 3 accounts to the 4000 that are gone and not going to return. Best of luck, I really hope all of this works out.
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Iurnan Mileghere
Singularity Foundation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[471]
Good first step. Not the end, nor even the beginning of the end. Hopefully the end of the beginning.
Or summat. Anyway, it's good enough for now, though we'll watch the CSM emergency summit results with great interest.
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lceman
Gallente Quam Singulari Session Changes
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[472]
Edited by: lceman on 26/06/2011 19:46:11 what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.
i spent close to 9 years in this game and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".
If what not is, what is ?. |
Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Mzee Machado This is unsatisfactory. However, let's be creative and try to save your wallets and our need for immersion? How about creating a virtual banking system? I love to fly my spaceship, but I also recognize the need for
The EVE community is as complex as can be and needs some mechanism to control the economy better than today. The influx of PLEX is a liability, while AUR does not solve your need for cash. If the prices had been a fraction of what they currently are, it could work as a temporary fix. Either AUR goes or PLEX does. Either way, we need an in-game bank to create larger economic possibilities both in-game and RL.
For those of you having read Charles Stross Halting state an in-game bank has its problems as well, but it is a brilliant concept. We, as players, are interested in investing real money into virtual property and security. Even for game-changing objects if they are a plausible part of a storyline, e.g. a prototype blueprint with DUST514 tech or weapons or whatever.
It is necessary to balance the vanity of RL money and in-game skills. A great pilot is never going to submit to a noob. A great industrialist will always have much influence. Provided their experience and time invested is honoured, no problem with seeing a looser buy a battleship and rent a pilot to bring a floating corpse back. Skillpoint sale? No. Jove spaceships for AUR? No.
Those investing countless of hours and ultimately making you successful must be safe in their knowledge that they can keep their sandbox evolving to a real virtual society according to their interest. EVE is similar to the outside in its need for a better economic framework. The similarity end where I in EVE can shoot someone in the face. I do not do that RL.
How are we podpilots going to be able to trade and interact with other MMOs in-game when there are different rules and not the least differently sized economies in each and everyone? We produce stuff and can offer great logistic support. Our services include superior firepower. How can CCP earn money utilizing our skills? How can we walk in-station and planetside without bleeding out of our ears or having our experience of immersion shattered?
A bank system can lower the imbalance between different economies. A bank earn money by their services and are powerful instruments in world economy. Since we live in a virtual society, our banks can be better than real life banks even. Not sc***ing us over at every opportunity I mean, risking our assets on hair-brained schemes. There are probably players that are ready to step up and assume the roles of managers. With guns of course.
Let me invest in development. I don't need much back, just some interest on my investment and the security that my assets are safe. Heck, I'd pay real money for in-station services offering cyborg implants so that I could walk normal while we wait for the grunts.
That's why the CSM shouldn't agree to go. They are being USED AS PROPAGANDA TOOLS. If they don't realize that they are unfit to serve as our representatives anyway.
That's your choice, CSM, refuse to go, or better yet, resign as a group, or be used as props and pawns. Don't fool yourselves into believing you are going to go to Iceland and achieve anything except looking like fools.
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Yoshitaka Moromuo
Distant Light Galactic Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside
The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats.
As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic.
If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag.
No. These leaks are anything but heroic, particularly the leak of shareholders' information. The shareholders' information leak alone can cause great damage to the corporation, and was most likely leaked with clear, malicious intent.
So, no.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:43:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Ranger 1 We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
And a discussion they got...
ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
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Addrake
Minmatar Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 -
[476]
I'll watch what you do not what you say.
That being said, this will get me out of Jita for a week. I'm not opposed to micro-transactions.. I'm not even opposed to sim city in space so long as my internet:spaceships gameplay doesn't become FUBAR. P2W is the issue I'm concerned with so when you speak with the CSM you need to make it very clear that it will NEVER HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 -
[477]
Apology noted, not accepted yet.
I, as a lot of others, I guess, remain highly pessimistic and suspicious.
Oh, and I really wonder how things will go with NDA and endless re-redacting of meeting minutes ? We need to expect results published sometime in September, or this time it will be different ?
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LIOZTH
Caldari Divide By Zero Emergent Dawn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:44:00 -
[478]
Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 19:44:13
Originally by: Xia Long thanks for the "apologies" Zulu (not joking) but i really think waiting another week to discuss the topic "live" with the CSM is not the soultion CSM =/= EVE comunity, they represent just a small portion of it
This is so true and bears repetition, well put Xia, the discussion needs to also center around the community *not just the CSM*. I think some sort of virtual town meeting is warranted.
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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[480]
People that say the micro transactions have to be removed completely are not going to get their way.. The system is in the game, CCP is making money off of it, now its here its not going to be removed.
HOWEVER!
The biggest concern of the EVE community has always been that Microtransactions would influence gameplay with ship and item sales for AUR. THAT worry is now (unlike before) adressed by a dev. By telling us NO GOLDEN AMMO WILL EVER BE SOLD, CCP has made that promise. Further details of course are still pending.
And be honest
Selling fluff items or custom ship paints should be fine as long as the prices are reasonable. (And not as generally expensive as it is right now.)
Now... ("knacks knuckles") about those optional captains quarters and hangar views --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[481]
A quick note: if you think I'm defending CCP below, think again. I am just telling it to you as I see it.
Originally by: Kith Kanann
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
And yet it didn't make it into the blog...
I made a suggestion, Zulu liked his wording better. It is his devblog, and it should be in his words.
I have the benefit of having access to the CSM/CCP Skype channel and internal forums, where this issue has been debated extensively over the last few days. The above is my current impression of Zulu's position; nothing more, and nothing less.
If my impression changes, I will of course communicate that to the players.
Originally by: Joseph Vacher Mind you, the CSM have some agreement about not disclosing what's said at meetings, no?
Historically, CCP redaction of CSM summit minutes reports has been minor, except in some cases where effectively entire meetings had to be off the record (such as DUST/EVE strategy in the May Summit -- minutes out soon I hope, btw).
For example, in the current May minutes draft, the edits are almost non-existent, mostly removal of exact numbers.
Needless to say, in the unlikely event that CCP does get heavy-handed, we shall explicitly call them out for that.
Originally by: Seline Okaski As to the CSM visit, I am not sure how to take this. Asking our representatives, the very same ones that you have disregarded, ignored and failed to inform/consult in the past to break away from real life commitments with under a weeks notice seems to be a last ditch effort to divert our attention.
When the batphone rings, you pick it up.
That said, if this meeting turns out to be a farce, we will let you know in no uncertain terms. If I am forced to endure those $^& IcelandAir seats for no good reason, there will be hell to pay.
With regard to speed of reporting, I will try and get reports out every day detailing general progress, and we will try and get a full report out ASAP. We know this is time-sensitive.
Originally by: Saving Face In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.
Numerous CCP folks at different levels have told me that Fearless is deliberately provocative, and is not official company policy. Of course, I have not seen any other issues, so I can't say for sure. Perhaps someone should leak some copies to me...
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Cancel Align NOW
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[482]
Quote: Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
By that time eve will be Dead.
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GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[483]
Edited by: GATORAN on 26/06/2011 19:46:30
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside
The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats.
As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic.
If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag.
I'm not going to get into too many details about how I don't agree with the entire premise of what you're saying, and I certainly don't think the leaks were heroic given the personal information that was revealed along with it. However I shall just point out that the document, as pointed out in many different cases, was taken out of context, and that it was a thought experiment. As such its not so much about MT, as it is about non-vanity items..and really, if you don't believe what they say when they tell you it was out of context and that it wasn't in the plans...why would you believe them that moment they say the words you want them to say "We will never implement non-vanity MT". Then what? Will you be just as skeptical? Will you make extraordinary measures to underline this and get CCP to do the same? If you get them to do that, then will believe them? Where is your limit? And once found..what makes that limit even more believable than the other ones? What makes what they say more acknowledgeable than what Zulu has said already just now?
What truth do you really want?
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edith prickley
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:46:00 -
[484]
'... there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
This sounds good, and presumably we can interpret "gold ammo" to represent a broader class of game advantage-related transactions. I'm somewhat more concerned by what you have not said: If it is only vanity transactions that are on the table, I don't see the need for a CSM meeting.
I still find the weasel-word evasion of the opinions expressed in "Fearless" to be a little bit unconvincing. Does Soundwave believe what he was writing or not? He could resolve many concerns in the community by coming up with a clear statement. If he does not agree with his own "out of context" arguments in the "Fearless" article, I'd like to hear that, and what his genuine beliefs are. I understand that article was never meant to be read by the general public. But it has, and should be addressed in more specific terms than we've seen so far. If CCP really is true to its "Fearless" motto, you should have the courage of your convictions.
Further, the editor referred to EVE as a "golden goose." This leaves the distinct impression that EVE players are simply being taken advantage of. Was that among the deliberately provocative statements taken out of context, or a widely held attitude within CCP? Since the point has come up, it would be interesting to have a clearer idea of what proportion of an EVE player's subscription is going towards funding non-EVE projects. Further, what risks are there to EVE if these other projects fail? I'm less "Fearless" about these ventures than CCP, and suspect that I'd be throwing good money after bad by continuing to fund your company. I understand that these questions are difficult to address specifically without revealing numbers which you'd prefer to keep private, but some reassurance would be helpful to a community who do not appreciate being anyone's golden goose.
In any case, regardless of the context of the "Fearless" pamphlet, I'm left with a very suspicious feeling towards CCP and its motives. Hilmar has made clear in his email that his only concern is with "metrics" which will demonstrate whether CCP is taking the right direction. I'd caution you to be careful about these metrics -- you are losing the trust of a loyal community, and by the time that shows up in the numbers, it may be too late.
Given the state of management of this game over the last several months, I've lost most of my confidence in CCP as caretaker of EVE and in their general direction. I'll no longer be paying for this product and/or service.
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Garricky
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:46:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.
Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.
It's a smokescreen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM by conference call and get us info fast - not a week or more delay to fly them out there for no reason. DELAY is the goal. To say they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth, I find insulting as a player.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:46:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP, you don't need to bother with the time or expense of meeting with the CSM in Iceland.
Nothing you can do is going to placate the masses OR save the tens of thousands of subscribers you have already lost until you understand the following and react accordingly:
WE DO NOT WANT RMT IN EVE.
No bridges are being mended yet as far I can see, it'll take more than just a few carefully chosen words. Plus I'm not buying the being upset part in his blog anyway.
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knanid volatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:46:00 -
[487]
Originally by: lceman what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or not, or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.
i spent close to 9 years in this hame and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".
2003 -> 2011, is 8 years not 9.
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Akara Ito
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
So you're gonna talk to the CSM, tell them to **** off, tell them they cant speak about that because of NDA, and then tell the community "CSM agreed" ?
^^this.
Vague words that actually mean no commitment, nor directly answer the question that was given, I spy "wiggle-room".
Stalling for time hoping for pitchforks to go.
Of course the CSM will get slapped with NDA or at the very least will be delayed in releasing information somehow, and CCP will forge ahead with non-vanity items - anyone who believes otherwise at this point is delusional.
CCP are spearheading microtransactions in game for every other game that will come afterward. Do you honestly want this to be the future of gaming?
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Lepresak Nara
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 -
[489]
CSM-Meeting? You wish to bribe them? And if you fail a NDA as in the past?
Sorry. You are a liar. You did loose your integrity.
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Iden Secundus Why should we believe you? You did lie us.
Your task is to lie us. So you are lying us
Trust? How? Why?
Yah >:O
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 -
[491]
Originally by: LIOZTH Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 19:44:13
Originally by: Xia Long thanks for the "apologies" Zulu (not joking) but i really think waiting another week to discuss the topic "live" with the CSM is not the soultion CSM =/= EVE comunity, they represent just a small portion of it
This is so true and bears repetition, well put Xia, the discussion needs to also center around the community *not just the CSM*. I think some sort of virtual town meeting is warranted.
It's not the CSM's fault that your voice isn't heard because you didn't vote.
ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
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Mena Arzi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Saving Face In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.
Numerous CCP folks at different levels have told me that Fearless is deliberately provocative, and is not official company policy. Of course, I have not seen any other issues, so I can't say for sure. Perhaps someone should leak some copies to me...
What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.
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Henrica Gaufridus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 -
[493]
I'm sorry, Zulu, but CCP has squandered the trust I had in them. The promise of "no money transactions" was broken already. CCP hasn't communicated with the players, hasn't communicated with the CSM, has IGNORED the advice of the CSM, has ignored the will of the player base.
I don't trust your company when they say "we have no plan to do X". CCP allegedly had no plans to introduce MT. The only way to earn my trust (and likely the rest of the angry players here) is to roll it back. Eliminate Aurum. It was an OKAY idea when the idea was "limited to vanity items". Unfortunately, I nor most players trust that it's going to stay that way, despite that CCP has "no plans" to extend it into game-changing items.
I don't blame you, Zulu. You are not the company, and you're writing on behalf of the company.
I will continue to protest until either a) Aurum is removed b) My remaining time on Eve runs out.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 -
[494]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:50:24 You start off by making it sound like its our fault?
And this is a blatant stall tactic. Still trying to get us to Forget about what you guys did.
You want us to believe you give a damn about the CSM after ignoring them time and again? All the sudden you want us to magicially belive you give a damn what they say. Its just more PR stunt.
The EMAIL needs to be addressed. I want IRL ramifications for the things he said. Not just more talk.
And no one believes that Newsletter was just talk.
You all just want to wait it out till we forget and proceed as planed.
We are watching what you are doing, not what you are saying.
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Salco Masir
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 -
[495]
There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions! |
Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Garricky
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.
Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.
It's a smokescreen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM by conference call and get us info fast - not a week or more delay to fly them out there for no reason. DELAY is the goal. To say they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth, I find insulting as a player.
Delaying tactic is my view too.
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Pyus
Hand Of Midas
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 -
[497]
First, thank you for the post on a Sunday - that at least says something to a good many of us.
I hate to see the higher-ups at CCP floating further and further away from reality and trying to drag others with them. You can only force so much Kool-Aid down each other's throats before people start vomiting and that's exactly what these leaks are - they are employees being sickened by what they see and are being told to believe.
I hope the meeting with the CSM yields many new insights into your future plans for EVE. This game more than any other requires one to consider their character's destiny and future and that is why it is imperative that we, the players, be given some level of transparency and feeling of inclusiveness in the game-changing decisions made by the developers. Otherwise, you probably need to scrub the whole idea of a player/character-controlled galaxy.
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Kithrus Why does everyone keep expecting worst case?
Becouse its CCP. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
Sgt Maru
Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 -
[499]
Can we have a live stream cast of the meetings? You could use the AT equipment. It would also be nice if mayhaps you could let the CSM field questions and suggestions directly from some dedicated chat/forum during the meetings.
So that's what I'd suggest, take the AT recording equipment and set up the round tables and get us (the community) involved as well, so it'd be just like AT, but without the pew pew between the discussions.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier.
whew that's a relief
that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"
right?
so why haven't they?
(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)
looks like i'm ~never resubbing~ enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.
o7 eve you will be missed. the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
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Marhaba
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[501]
I'll take your word for it that "no gold ammo" means "no non-vanity items or benefits."
Now, just get rid of The Door and give me back my hangar, and I'll renew my accounts.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[502]
Originally by: knanid volatar
Originally by: lceman what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or not, or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.
i spent close to 9 years in this hame and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".
2003 -> 2011, is 8 years not 9.
Never heard of Beta testers I see.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[503]
Edited by: The Offerer on 26/06/2011 19:51:14 Smart first step. It's all up to CSM-CCP summit now.
Just a hint: a positive outcome means +$60 MONTHLY (4 industrial accounts) for CCP from me. Yes, that's ALMOST a monocle a month for nothing more than a game content that was there for years.
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Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Eclorc
Originally by: Akara Ito
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
So you're gonna talk to the CSM, tell them to **** off, tell them they cant speak about that because of NDA, and then tell the community "CSM agreed" ?
^^this.
Vague words that actually mean no commitment, nor directly answer the question that was given, I spy "wiggle-room".
Stalling for time hoping for pitchforks to go.
Of course the CSM will get slapped with NDA or at the very least will be delayed in releasing information somehow, and CCP will forge ahead with non-vanity items - anyone who believes otherwise at this point is delusional.
CCP are spearheading microtransactions in game for every other game that will come afterward. Do you honestly want this to be the future of gaming?
Again, the CSM is being used to stall for another couple weeks, as a propaganda tool, and as props.
They will be making themselves look like fools if they go, especially if the trip only results in:
"we and the CSM agreed that RMT is needed for EVE to thrive"
and, "we agree that the items are too expensive, so we are marking the monocle down to $50 from $70".
That right there represents THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. They won't be coming back with anyting more than that, and possibly even less.
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[505]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow That said, if this meeting turns out to be a farce, we will let you know in no uncertain terms. If I am forced to endure those $^& IcelandAir seats for no good reason, there will be hell to pay.
If you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP unequivocally stating that there will never be non-vanity items sales then you are a joke, the CSM is a joke and CCP thinks we are stupid.
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Kayweg
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[506]
"We will see"...said the blind guy to the deaf one. 18 days left on my account and i have seen quite enough. Make me change my mind. 'nuff said...
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Fran Crick
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Fran Crick on 26/06/2011 19:54:26 Malka, maybe you should look here beforte shouting your mouth off any more, he said "gold ammo", as you can see there is a lot more you can get with gold in WOT!
Originally by: Rhivre For those who think gold ammo just means gold ammo
World of tanks gold stuff
I'm only guessing here, but you prob don't live in the same house as Zulu, or even know the guy in RL?........so how would you know....for sure.....that when he says "gold ammo" he means non-vanity items in general?
P.S. one other point Malka...nice sig!
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 -
[508]
they could stop half the rage just by saying there will be no P2W
stupid noobz >:[
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Lao Mah
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 -
[509]
Quote: "fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days"
Sounds serious. Management crisis? Who fired who?
We'll just have to wait and see what CCP does next.
---- And you tell me Over and over and over again, my friend Ah, you dont believe We're on the EVE of Destruction -------- Dominion - Tyrannis - Incursion - Incarna - Destruction |
Callic Veratar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 -
[510]
To those of you who still don't accept any of this, I have a request. Instead of just unsubscribing, please biomass your characters. If you're actually done with EVE, prove it.
If not, HTFU and play the game. Unsubscribing and uninstalling means nothing when you can resub and reinstall in a matter of hours.
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GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 -
[511]
Edited by: GATORAN on 26/06/2011 19:53:04 Edited by: GATORAN on 26/06/2011 19:52:26
Originally by: Garricky
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.
Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.
It's a smokescreen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM by conference call and get us info fast - not a week or more delay to fly them out there for no reason. DELAY is the goal. To say they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth, I find insulting as a player.
I can play this game too...lets see: Suppose that a conference call was held instead, here is what I would be saying if I had your current attitude:
It's a smoke screen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM face to face and get to look them into the eyes, we're sick and tired of these cheap solutions. We want to be taken seriously CCP! Not a day or less for some cheap compounded info. Take a week and prepare a proper statement and meeting, fly them to Iceland (for good reason too!). DELAY is the goal. To say that they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth over a phone, I find insulting as a player.
*/hypothetical scenario*
See how easy that was? You're not helping anyone with this conspiracy nonsense.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Salco Masir There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!
Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.
Now go, quit and dont come back.
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Republica Winder
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Akiriy Azuriko they could stop half the rage just by saying there will be no P2W
stupid noobz >:[
They won't, because as the newsletter stated, Pay-To-Win is in the plan. That they won't disavow this (which would have squelched a significant part of the rage) tells you that this is what they want to do.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 -
[514]
Edited by: BeanBagKing on 26/06/2011 19:52:57
Originally by: Rion Deteisan Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:34:50 Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:33:56
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
(it was going to be platinum ammo)
OR
(it was only going to be ships)
OR
(Great idea!!.. lets call in CSM to see if we can make plans to do gold ammo too!)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
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Sunbird Huy
Caldari WEPRA CORP White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 -
[515]
Little too late, don't you think?
As someone stated here, you have left EVE to burn in the fiercest fires it has had since CCP gave birth to it, watching from the shadows. The amount of trust that CCP lost in these past few days, it will take months, if not years of hard work to gain back.
And what about players that have been literally pushed to the edges of their patience and perseverance? The ones that protested in hubs, the ones that canceled their subscriptions(those did the most hard thing for any of us to do, hats down to them), and the rest of us who raged and cried out through the forums?
But at least there are hints that community has the power to affect CCP's decisions. And ability, determination and will to stay the course and fight what is wrong. I wish CCP best of luck in their future work and a major turn around in their community relations politics.
WE, the citizens of New Eden, are watching - what you do, and not what you say from now on.
o7 PLAYERBASE REACTION TO INCARNA |
Garrance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 -
[516]
Trebor - you posted:
"With regard to speed of reporting, I will try and get reports out every day detailing general progress, and we will try and get a full report out ASAP. We know this is time-sensitive."
If you realize speed is a big issue - why make us all wait for a week or more by talking to CCP in ICELAND? Do it by Skype and save us all that time waiting. Otherwise it seems just a CCP delay tactic.
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Arista Shahni
Amarr Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 -
[517]
To be buried soundlessly, in a stream of responses, like all of our voices have been.
Ah well, here I go anyway.
For me it isn't even about the MT anymore. You feel betrayed? Well, think of it this way: exposure of the truth does not mean that before-hand, the truth did not exist.
(Take a breath - run on sentences ahead)
It wasn't all caring about the players and their opinions and the BEAUTIFUL THING you have created, was it? Sticking to your unconventional MMO-company guns doing so, until suddenly this horrible leak of private documents occurred, warping reality into something that was a reflection of every game that your player-base has, in its majority, rejected.
To find out someone disregards your very humanity and looks at you as a wallet bearing rat that scuttles predictably in a cage measured by a statiticaal curves to come crawling back to the food pellets, when your reputation was devs developing for players... this is a horrible breach of trust.
Worse than a spur of the moment violation of faith, the truth has come out that this depersonalisation and dehumanisation of the very humans that pay to keep the lights on has been a sickness breeding for along time. When SOE did it to me it was fine, I knew the face and name of that beast before I opened my wallet.
When I left it, it was without regret, without this stupid choking feeling in my throat, without a love of what I was leaving behind. Congratulations on harvesting care-bear tears, and using a very literal game exploit to do it.
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Cade Windstalker
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Xander Hunt
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
EVE Community. I am disappointed in how little faith you had in a company that some of you have been with for seven years, and how you allowed your groupthink to overpower your ability to use formal logic and deduction regarding what may be opinion and what may be debate. But, you have my undying respect for showing passion, and love, for the game that many of us hold dear.
Its RW corporate propaganda that we're seeing here, not Zulu or Zinfadel (or however you spell his name) that are doing this DIRECTLY. (I admit, I posted that I wanted Zinfadel fired, but only because I hate the kind of job he's in, and how he tries to execute it so well. Its not about him, its about how things have changed in the past 6 months alone) I have little to no faith in *ANY* company (including the one I work for) that has investors, as investors want nothing more than more money. With all seriousness, they'll push the boundries to get monies in, and when it dries up, walk away knowing they made a profit. Its taken a few years for CCP to get to the point where investors are ... instigating and trying to enforce ideas to get more RW monies out of the system, be it due to borrowing for dev'n of Dust or whatever. Monetary-Investors suck the life out of a game (or anything) faster than a shop-vac sucks up water. Investors have passion for money, not passion for the game and its mechanics.
The only investors I have any patience for are the people who invest non-monetary ideals into something, such as passion, wisdom, intelligence, time, ideas, love, hate, interest. Its no wonder Jita and Amarr are on fire as we, the players, are so invested in this game, we don't want to see the mechanics change. We, the players, are investors as well, CCP. Money may make things work, but we're what makes all of this worth while, not money.
I'm sorry but that's a cynical and horribly misdirected view point. If you want to rage about investors then do that, but CCP as a company has proven that they want to make good games and this community keeps kicking them in the nuts and saying that they should stop bending over and look them in the eye. We take the same caution and paranoia that we apply to in-game contracts and agreements and then point it at CCP and whine "you didn't cover minor details x, y, and z...".
By the way, about those investors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCP_Games
Founders and Employees are the principal share holders meaning that the company is employee owned.
I'd also like to point out that you don't get into game developement for the money. No, really, you don't. You certainly don't get into it for the money and then go work for CCP, you work for EA or Activision at one of their studios that turns out a Madden game or "generic shooter number the next one" every nine to 18 months. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For such an intelligent player base the level of stupidity that people will put forth as fact neve |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[519]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:56:40
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier.
whew that's a relief
that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"
right?
so why haven't they?
(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)
looks like i'm ~never resubbing~ enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.
o7 eve you will be missed. the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
See you later, oh easily manipulated one.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Hecate Lionfire
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[520]
Will bacon be the bacon in the bacon of the bacon to the bacon of the bacon when bacon of the bacon is bacon to the bacon and bacon becomes the bacon of the bacon when the game is bacon?
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Leah Pendragon The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.
This.
And if CCP are so strapped for cash, why not just increase subscription costs slightly, like from 15 euro per month to 17 euro per month, and a corresponding increase in ETC prices? It's been 15 for over 4 years now. I can live with a small amount of inflation.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[522]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:56:24
Originally by: RougeOperator Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:50:24 You start off by making it sound like its our fault?
And this is a blatant stall tactic. Still trying to get us to Forget about what you guys did.
You want us to believe you give a damn about the CSM after ignoring them time and again? All the sudden you want us to magicially belive you give a damn what they say. Its just more PR stunt.
The EMAIL needs to be addressed. I want IRL ramifications for the things he said. Not just more talk.
And no one believes that Newsletter was just talk.
You all just want to wait it out till we forget and proceed as planed.
We are watching what you are doing, not what you are saying.
Also his apology is way too late. And the blog starts off with the wrong tone and excuses. You dont make excuses in a a real apology. Excuses mixed in destroy the sincerity and credibility. When you toss excuses in you dont really believe you should be apologizing at all in most cases.
How are those 1000 dollar pants Btw.
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Also note he said "GOLD AMMO". So when they come back and charge for some type of ammo he can say he told the truth cause its not gold.
They are being very clever in not rejecting micros for in game items if you pay attention.
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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 -
[523]
Now that's more of a reply.
I am very relieved to see CCP realize how important it is to trust.
However, I am also glad that someone within CCP had the balls to stand up for the community and let us know what was being discussed internally. Yes, it caused a crisis, but it also is a unique opportunity to reestablish trust. Trust has to be earned. You have to earn it from your employees and from your customers.
Also, if CCP management strongly believes in something (e.g. microtransactions), then they should be fearless and argue the point with us directly instead of agreeing one thing publically and internally discussing another.
P.S. I still think incarna is the worst (free?!?) expansion CCP have come up with ever, and yes I think CCP is being very greedy.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 -
[524]
Originally by: The Offerer Edited by: The Offerer on 26/06/2011 19:51:14 Smart first step. It's all up to CSM-CCP summit now.
Just a hint: a positive outcome means +$60 MONTHLY (4 industrial accounts) for CCP from me. Yes, that's ALMOST a monocle a month for nothing more than a game content that was there for years.
I think you should just quit. Your a little on the dumb side and dont understand that MT is optional. So I suggest you quit and I would advise against breeding, the gene pool will be safer without your polution.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 -
[525]
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 -
[526]
I think this blog is a step in the right direction but I don't like the vagueness and ambiguity of the language.
It can easily be backpedaled on or said "well we just meant ammo".
As for Iceland, why not do things on SKYPE? Will we get approval by drunk csm's like last time with the Gold Scorpion?
And what services exactly?
There are a lot of questions left and I don't think this covers it.
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Ms Michigan
Gallente Aviation Professionals for EVE Fusion Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 -
[527]
Get HILMAR out here! ...Let him take the heat for what are his bad business ideas.
*I may marvel at a person who can afford a $1000 pair of pants, but I certainly don't respect them for spending their money that way.
CCP wants us all to quit. This is Hilmar's acceptable loss to alienate the VERY player base that MAKES EVE and replace us with his version of veal cattle.
You people (CCP) may have made the Sandbox we play in... but we ARE THE SANDBOX. We are what make EVE great. We make this game. FURTHERMORE, it is bad enough we pay monthly already and get Mediocre PROGRAMMING (Too many to list), LAX SECURITY (Cookie-derp/new forums), and POOR LOGIC AT TIMES (GAME BALANCE ISSUES)...Then you try and pull a fast one on us with this MT bull. You lie.
We still come because we love that EVE and CCP are better companies than 90% of the games/gaming companies out there....but YOU (CCP) are making us change our mind on that. You want to act like all the other companies and follow their dumb logic, FINE - act like them and see what happens to the Sandbox. Next thing you know it will be empty of all the great sand castles we built and all the cool kids that made them. CYA!
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Salco Masir There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!
Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.
Now go, quit and dont come back.
Yeah MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
ur so smart
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Estelle McDeal
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[529]
All they are doing is buying time.
Did they listen to us when it came to sanctum nerfs?
No all they wanted to do is sell more PLEXes. PLEX price went up meaning the demand was much higher then the offer.
If they really never planned to move microtransaction other then vanity items they would have said that immediately.
You lost our trust and calling in CSM for any credability will not work.
You gave a **** on CSM doing all other changes and all you want to do now is buy time which means more RL ISK until the obvious is stated.
You will sell game affecting items for RL cash one or the other way.
No cease fire and no clam down. This time we will not step down like stupid cash cows.
Before calling in CSM let Hilmar state in plain public that this was never intended and you will never again even think about it.
If not, rest in peace EvE.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:55:54 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:53:58
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier.
whew that's a relief
that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"
right?
so why haven't they?
(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)
looks like i'm ~never resubbing~ enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.
o7 eve you will be missed. the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
See you later, oh easily manipulated one.
So a attribute remap does not count as "gold ammo", right? Anything else?
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Xanthanan
Caldari Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[531]
Thank you CCP Zulu, I realise, as others have pointed out, that there is much more needed to fully pacify the player base but this is a start.
+1 to you for realising that your previous comments were emotionaly compromised, theres been a lot of that going round recently. Lets hope that those that are here because they love the game realise they could also have been guilty of that too. To the trolls that invariably congregate around threads like this, more calmness = less food for you!
I as many others cancelled my subscription this weekend. Being asked to play the game I love against RL rich people who must win with AUR boosted skills and equipment is MUCH worse than facing the entire DRF with PL in tow, that was just a consequence of gameplay and to be honest I have lost count the number of +1's I should have given in game enemies for their stance on the thorny subject of MT... The community > in game rivalries.
The CSM / CCP meeting needs to produce real results, I hope this is the case as I see the results of that meeting having a major bearing on people renewing their subs. So if I get back into game mode (which I have failed to do all weekend) more subs = more tagets which is good :) --------------------------------------------
Pay TWICE for a game? I dont think so |
Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[532]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
You can read my post.
Some want MT in all its glory. Your all scared your RMT operations and bot alliances will suffer with MT.
CSM are just another vanity item, voted for by lemmings.
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Kerotakis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[533]
Edited by: Kerotakis on 26/06/2011 19:57:55 It's hard to believe your damage control when your own internal discussion of microtransaction tells you to keep it hush-hush lest the subscribers get up in arms. This and your tremendous condescension towards us is hardly endearing.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Halte quivala
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 -
[534]
Buying airline tickets for some guys to come over in order to have a talk, instead of using other tools available, and way less expensive. Some people have no idea what money is, really.
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Malkev
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 -
[535]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 -
[536]
Sony about to acquire CCP? http://www.eve-news.com/2011/06/26/sony-online-entertainment-acquire-ccp-games/ ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Salco Masir There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!
Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.
Now go, quit and dont come back.
Yeah MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
ur so smart
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 -
[538]
Originally by: Fran Crick P.S. one other point Malka...nice sig!
♥
Because you're so sweet, I'll be kind.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=16#476
This is a second, recent attempt, for a CSM to explain how they were sharing the phrases with CCP, and how it should be worded. It seems a compromise was made. As noted by the CSM, if he feels that it ends up meaning something else he will be quick to inform us. -------------------
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
You are a sell-out and a joke if you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP stating that there will never be non-vanity items sold.
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Xander Hunt
Minmatar Dead Rats Tell No Tales
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Fractal Muse Oh my.
Who's brilliant plan is it to go the 'no communication' route?
Take the fire. Take the heat. Burn a bit. And walk away with a head held high that you interacted with your playerbase.
Putting everything on hold won't help your situation. Waiting another week will not help.
Goodness. Just come clean with what you are planning on doing and be done with it. Let the market decide if it likes your idea or not.
The more you play the shady, disingenuous, inept role... the more people will leave. Who can take a company that rolls out an expansion and then claims that they don't even know what they are doing seriously at this point?
I personally think its a brilliant idea to have the CSM out there. Would rather have a public TS3 feed where only CSM and CCP could speak and everyone else could listen in on, but alas, if they're flying out there, thats good too.
I like this because dealing with a small group of people is going to be easier to work with than a huge angry mob who scream demands.
I say let the CSM and CCP get a few wrinkles out. I just hope CCP doesn't get them too drunk to remember WTF happened. ;)
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 -
[541]
Thanks for the blog Zulu, but it won't change my opinions until I see the results.
Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:30:31
Originally by: Consortium Agent Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet.
What you are linking is Trebor's post. People want to hear it from the horse's mouth, and here's why:
Originally by: Kith Kanann
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Weaselior This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
And yet it didn't make it into the blog...
Trebor suggested alternative wording that would remove ambiguity, and the change was REJECTED. Ask yourself why removing ambiguity in this case would be bad?
Now for some serious tinfoil hattery. CCP could keep doing this every 12 months or so to judge the opinion of the playerbase. As soon as there isn't a response like this, non-vanity is in-game. I don't actually think CCP is going this route, but if this issue crops up again, then I will.
______ Tippia's analysis of NEX/Incarna |
Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[542]
Your careful wording of "were and are no plans" reminds me of the exact same wording used one year ago when the line was there are no plans for MT at all. Present and past but no commitment to the future, which is what we are really concerned with here. The fact that you can not simply tell us what we are looking for tells me that you're just trying to find a way to tell us the answer we /don't/ want to hear in a way that will not enrage us further.
The tone however feels refreshing and honest, and while it doesn't restore any of my trust in CCP I do appreciate it.
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Tridik
Caldari Spricer Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[543]
Originally by: lceman Edited by: lceman on 26/06/2011 19:46:11 what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.
i spent close to 9 years in this game and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".
This is literally one of the most important dudes in the T2 Production community, CCP. You could effectively DESTROY your much tauted "Player-Run Economy".
As far as no more releases until CSM meeting. Sorry, your stalling is not good enough. Your wording is nebulous at BEST, and once again your reply is inappropriate. We feel no kinship or loyalty to you, why should we?
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
You and all the CSM delegates should know one thing: if CCP ever breaches it's promise of non-vanity items ever being introduced in the game you all are honor bound by the positions you gained at least partly from the trust of your fellow pod pilots to avoid any NDAs and spread the news, this goes beyond one person, this affects hundreds of thousands of people some of which love this game, Hell I've grown up with this game, I've been playing it since 15 and it's one of the few games that's stuck with me (only MMO), protect it for us guys and if you cannot at least warn us to protect ourselves from the coming storm.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
See you later, oh easily manipulated one.
Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
You are a sell-out and a joke if you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP stating that there will never be non-vanity items sold.
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Pack your bags. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Gedid Tava
Gallente The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 -
[547]
As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.
However...
My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.
If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."
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Akiriy Azuriko
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 -
[548]
CCP need to stop worrying about MT stuff and step back and have a think why there not getting enough subscribers. MT wont fix the " financial Crisis " CCP must be in to even suggest such a idiotic idea, why even contemplate the notion. all its going to do is cause rage and loss thousands of subscribers, who will tell all there mates not to play eve because its turning fail, didn't realize CCP were such scum, ready to **** of thousands to get a quick buck.
Poor form gentlemen, very poor form indeed.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 -
[549]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 20:01:46 They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for in game boosts and goods.
He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.
Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.
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Mercedes Lola
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 -
[550]
The parley
words brought from players:Do not want at all! words brought from ccp:we sorwy was a leak + yada yada csm+ no this 1 item wont come actions from player's:unsub'ing actions from ccp:
still pending for u to fill a blank there
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Livinia Koi
Wrecking Shots Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 -
[551]
Well, I guess it's a start. Nice delaying tactic with the CSM, though. And nice use of vague "gold ammo" comment. I don't trust you. I hope you actually listen to the CSM this time around. A couple of months ago, I was excited for the future of EVE. Now, I doubt I will still be playing in 6 months. I hope you pull your s*** together. EVE is the greatest game I have ever played, but CCP seems hell-bent on f***ing it up. I hope this has finally taught you to listen.
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Ghoest I'll watch what you do, not what you say.
________________
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Alexandra Alt
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 -
[553]
I didn't unsub before this blog post, but, I just did now, I am against everything everyone has been protesting yes, but, well, I was waiting for more news and more info regarding this issue. This post was not rly what I was expecting, you guys need to understand average EvE players aren't really 10 years old, and reading a damage control response, vague one also, getting the CSM's on the middle of the arguement as a probable means to be used as a scape goat just made me unsub as it clearly shows how not to handle mature costumers.
MT's are bad.... specially in a subscription based game (I wouldn't tolerate it if it would get free anyway)
THe only way my subscription will be renewed will be when I have a firm agreement signed and with colateral for no fullfilment that there will be no non-vanity items in the MT store.
Best regards.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 -
[554]
Originally by: RougeOperator They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.
He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.
Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.
No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?
Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Onnen Mentar
I am very relieved to see CCP realize how important it is to trust.
I nearly fell off my seat laughing when I read that.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
See you later, oh easily manipulated one.
Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Rho Nerys
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 -
[557]
CCP Zulu wrote:
we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
strengthen what you just threw to pieces? Good luck!
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Chernitski
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Gedid Tava As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.
However...
My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.
If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."
+1
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:04:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: RougeOperator They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.
He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.
Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.
No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?
Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?
No i refuse to be manipulated is what it comes down to.
I read everything they say as if they are a lawyer of djinn trying to put one over on me.
I assume its like a monkeys paw wish scenario at this point.
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Darius Sokarad
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:04:00 -
[560]
UNSUBSCRIBED
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.
Now go, quit and dont come back.
I had reserved taking action on the issues at hand because I wanted to see what CCP's response would be.
I am sorely disappointed in what I have seen. Doublespeak and astroturfing are not the way to win back the trust of your customer base.
We as players need to stop thinking of ourselves as a "player" base and start thinking of ourselves as a "customer" base. When I have felt less than satisfied with someone I do business with, I approach them and try to work things out. I understand that as a business, CCP needs to make money and a reasonable amount of growth is to be expected, but this most recent behavior is unacceptable and I am afraid that unless more drastic remedies are undertaken I will have to take my business elsewhere.
Personally I think that CCP Zulu should not be in a position to interact with customers, and this most despicable practice of astroturfing needs to come to an immediate halt.
UNSUBSCRIBED, but I do retain some faint hope that my trust will be restored and I will continue to do business with what was once a most enjoyable partnership.
If CCP needs money so badly, I will be happy to pay double my current subscription fees if it means and end to this foolishness.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
See you later, oh easily manipulated one.
Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
You're so smart and mature. Your comments couldn't just as easily apply to you as those you condemn.
I'm resubbing now and calling all my friends so they do the same. Thanks for bringing us into the light. We were all being so silly about this. You are in no way dumb.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Yeah MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog ù he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.
àalso, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Vincentus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 -
[563]
Oh and in the meantime, please fix CQ so we have the old hangar back instead of a door
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Dmoney3788
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:06:00 -
[564]
Saying sorry after every time you punch someone in the face starts to lose its meaning until you stop punching them in the face.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:07:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...
("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")
Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:08:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Yeah MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog ù he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.
àalso, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless.
dude don't be immature. Ranger 1 is trying to explain this to us if we would just listen to his smarter more mature viewpoints.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Jiks
Caldari Prophets of Doom
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:08:00 -
[567]
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
This is a politicians answer. It does not rule out future plans for gold ammo, or indeed current plans for gold ships/modules/remaps/skillpoints/etc.
There have been literally thousands of posts asking for a simple yes/no to the question "will non-vanity items be sold for aurum?" ... Zulu has carefully not answered that question.
Good CCP are talking to the CSM, bad they are using this as delaying tactic. I heard there were ways of communicating over the internet these days to avoid the need to fly to a simple meeting but I must be getting senile.
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Pao An
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Juan Sezole NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.
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Canuk EroSennin
Gallente Public Security Section Nine
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 -
[569]
Good lord almighty people! Listen to yourselves....CCP Zulu has heard your whining and *****ing and is going to call a meeting of the CSM (your representitives in eve voted in by you) and the CCP staff to discuss the future of eve, what you are all *****ing NON STOP about, and how to address the current problems facing eve to everyones benefit.
I get it....you dont trust CCP. Nothing you can do about it past *****ing on the forums or unsubbing. I will wait, patiently to see how CCP and CSM resolve this crisis within eve. CCP ZULU CAN NOT JUST THROW OUT WILD PROMISES TO APPEASE YOU, THEY WOULD JUST GET THROWN IN HIS FACE AGAIN AT A LATER DATE SHOULD EVE EVOLVE FURTHER. When the meeting is concluded and all avenues of discussion have been hammered out we will hopefully get a response one way or another.
The Fearless newsletter was only a discussion envoking document meant to initiate debates within CCP as to what eve might become if implemeted, and how it would profit CCP and the players. You all just use it in the worst possible context, as if, whats mentioned in it is already a guaranteed fact. It is not.
You all ask for an answer to so many questions however you will not get a quick answer that will lock a person into something! CCP doesn't know the entire future of AUR anymore than you all do....maybe some day in the future something will be sold on the AUR market and one quote from Zulu would undermine that entire possibility. I understand your concerns, I have them too, however CCP aren't just players who have no accountability....they have a responsibility to not just think about eve as it is now (like you all do) but to see what the future of eve could/should be and making off the collar appeasing comments will not be in eves best interests.
The problems must be discussed by multiple individuals of different viewpoints until the final decision is revealed. Until then just do whatever you have to do...unsub, keep playing or sit there waiting for your mother to pop her tit back in your mouth. Keep the pressure on but don't get carried away by fear.
There is nothing to fear except fear itself.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...
("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")
Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?
Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.
It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 -
[571]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Yeah MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog ù he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.
àalso, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless.
Yes, there are a wide variety of things the term "non-vanity items" could cover.
Paying to open a bar, that could be used to generate ISK sales for the owner would be only one example.
Not really a vanity item, but certainly not "Pay to Win" either.
Either way, MT would still be optional.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Morphisat
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 -
[572]
Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 -
[573]
CCP Zuluà. The tone and demeanour of my blog on Friday à.... fuelled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days à..
(you had 2 spelling mistakes..ffs)
Umm hold on, this experiencing of breach of trust, do you mean you are emotionally broken because your board of directors went in a direction that you find distressing because it breaks the ô players are the game sandboxö or, the players actions that are manifesting on forums, across the cluster and in outside game news sources due to your arrogance towards the players?
IF the latter, what trust did we breach, trust in CCP?, you must be in DENIAL, what trust, its you who have broken your promises and betrayed the player base, the only trust u have in us is that we like your product, aka sandbox, and will pay a sum to build in it, you turn it into a litter tray, we won¦t any more we¦ll protest and leave, the only trust we had you betrayed.
I like many joined eve not because it was easy but, and this is a very important but, because it was hard, complex, unforgiving and a very long term commitment, I had a look and knew on day one that this sandbox of yours was going to occupy me what whats probably left of my life, it was who dies first, eve or me.
Eve is/was full of bright, intelligent people, it still is, the player base care more about CCP than most of your directors and major shareholders, and whats more its individual and collective intelligence far outstrips any resource CCP could ever acquire or contract on the marketplace.
We understand that CCP should have other products, we made CCP successful enough to takeover/merge with WW, we understood that WiS was the making of the ambulation and box engine for and WoD, we were more than happy to keep shoveling you cash because it was good for eve and CCP. What we did not expect as you promised it would not happen is MT in eve, yes develop the method for WoD, but introducing it into eve is CCP breaking trust with the eve community.
IF you had waited with the NeX until Dust was in Beta it would have been an excellent way to pay for planetary ops, but you went and made a derivatives engine that evaporates a company liability, aka PLEX.
You don¦t understand, your games company has turned into a short term cash grab machine, those investors who we were told were games players gave the what we now know was an illusion of trust that they thought like we did, however it turns out that their games have us as their pixels and they don¦t give a **** about us, you, or your grandmothers, all they crave is money and power, they don¦t respect you they never have.
P.S. I have just used a PLEX to reactivate my account so I could post this, I did you a favor, I decreased your liability, you have 29 days to explain where the company is going, the players are your product more so than the game, you guys seem to have forgotten that.
P.P.S, i log in and find a bot in system that i¦m going to have to pop days after i reported it, just send a GM to test them, them pop them back into a clone vat, or u jelli
...... continues overleaf. |
GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Pao An
Originally by: Juan Sezole NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.
Speak for yourself, I don't particularly mind MT...I just mind MT that gives you an ingame advantage/boost
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Sinnek
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 -
[575]
seems obvious to me that they cannot simply say yes or no to whether or not there will be any non-vanity items in the nex store, because they want to sell novelty items and ships like i.e the Zephyr and Primae. these have specialized uses in real game play and thus are not "vanity" items, but are not in any way really an advantage as their roles can easily be filled or even bettered by a "normal" ship.
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Dmoney3788
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Jiks "there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
This is a politicians answer. It does not rule out future plans for gold ammo, or indeed current plans for gold ships/modules/remaps/skillpoints/etc.
There have been literally thousands of posts asking for a simple yes/no to the question "will non-vanity items be sold for aurum?" ... Zulu has carefully not answered that question.
Good CCP are talking to the CSM, bad they are using this as delaying tactic. I heard there were ways of communicating over the internet these days to avoid the need to fly to a simple meeting but I must be getting senile.
Exactly. If CCP had no intention of selling non-vanity items through Aurum, they would have said so as quickly as they denied the Sony merger.
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DarthMopp
Gallente I.D.I.O.T. Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[577]
Edited by: DarthMopp on 26/06/2011 20:12:57 First: This Blog was one quantum leap better than its predecessor! I think thats a common ground we all can start from.
I am willing to give CCP the benefit of doubt for the moment. The only cause why is because you made this unique, brilliant game i enjoyed for roundabout five years now and until Incarna i had at least the feeling that you might know what you are actually doing. That trust was deeply distressed by Incarna, the Newsletter and the leaked E-Mail. Nevertheless I am actually willing to listen to what you have to say because i am still refusing to believe that CCP is willing to slap their very own, faithful community.
So, speak up and let actions follow accordingly. Be honest and stay to your words. Remember: If one stakeholder is leaving, the other two cannot provide the stability for your company anymore.
Ps.: I know its an old saying, and i guess everyone heard it from his parents before (as i was telling my children the same) but i think it fits with all that MT-Madness in the Gaming industry:
"If everyone is jumping from the bridge, then you are going to do the same?"
"Alea iacta est"
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Buffy McChestyChest
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[578]
you have lost credibilty and my respect. I am closing my extra accounts, and will close this one if i see no changes by the July 1st meeeting.
You have made a terrible error in judgement, and have chosen a terrible decision, and may have destroyed your game permanetly
I would ask for your money back from your hired consultants, they have failed you miserably, and now you are suffering the consequences
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Ubumble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[579]
Time to calm down, perhaps?
This is how it works: - they screwed up, and yes, destroyed a lot of trust - a lot of the community protested and they reacted badly - now they seem truly worried and have started taking steps - we wait, see what they do and take appropriate steps
If you like the game, you'll be hoping that CCP reacts well from this point.
Let's be optimistic and very vigilant.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: RougeOperator They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.
He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.
Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.
No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?
Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?
Glad you have gone, a little less lag to worry about and i guess your not up adapting to change. Like so many other lemmings Eve will be a better place without you.
I want to see MT in all its gory glory.
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[581]
This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Alexandra Alt
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 -
[582]
Nice, can't edit my post, anyway, as I was about to say, I forgot to add something, the thing that ****es me the most, is the fact that I'm treated as someone who doesn't know what he wants, granted sometimes one does tend to have opinions and wishes that are selfish and don't fit a community as a whole, but, you don't say that, ever, even in an internal newsletter (which was said to be out of context, you could release the whole newsletters to make it in context, that is, if it won't make the issue worse), and that hurt me, so much that it will be quite hard for you (CCP) to make me change my mind.
Best regards.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 -
[583]
Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Shemmy
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Sha Dar NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
These, pretty much.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Pao An
Originally by: Juan Sezole NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.
Maybe but I've not actually seen a Rnager 1 post that you describe.
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GATORAN
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:13:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Morphisat Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.
Guys guys, the CSM thing is not a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is not committed to Incarna and the cash shop. This means they won't start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, and never will at any point in the future.
see how easy that was?
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...
("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")
Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?
Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.
It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see.
Typing? I was talking about voice Skype? Yes I can see there could be some advantage to face to face, but does that outweigh this dragging on for weeks more when many people already see it as a CCP delay tactic?
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Lirael Dyrim
Gallente In Bacon We Trust
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Shemmy
Originally by: Sha Dar NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
These, pretty much.
QFT.
"Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious." |
MC187
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: MC187
so which is it?
Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.
We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.
We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.
You simply chose not to hear it.
And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.
You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.
And you couldn't have made it easier.
you caught me before i finished editing. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=15#442
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Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
While you're out white knighting on your horse, consider at one time MTs were never on the table.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[591]
A clear seperation and clarification of how Dust/ EVE link will work /counteract pay to win players.
Seperate the WOD game more clearly from this discussion by acknowleding it and placing it clearly seperate but still talked about in CCP publications.
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Shemmy
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Ubumble If you like the game, you'll be hoping that CCP reacts well from this point.
Yes, and if you've been here a while, you'll be expecting ... not a lot, to be honest.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[593]
Originally by: Canuk EroSennin Good lord almighty people! Listen to yourselves....CCP Zulu has heard your whining and *****ing and is going to call a meeting of the CSM (your representitives in eve voted in by you) and the CCP staff to discuss the future of eve, what you are all *****ing NON STOP about, and how to address the current problems facing eve to everyones benefit.
Hilmar himself explained that CCP will watch out to our actions and not care so much about what we say at this time, because they already knew what we would say. And he said they will stay the course and change the world. Again!
Are you calling him a liar now? I think that's not fair - This man obviously cares about us a great deal!
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Marhaba
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[594]
By the way, I consider the Scorpion battleship you guys were talking about selling to be "gold ammo."
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[595]
Trust? You can't be serious.
I lost trust in CCP's ability to deliver anything with some measure of quality (in both execution and design) with the Dominion patch.
Over the past three months, CCP has either ****ed up in executing initiatives or actively taken steps to reduce the playability and enjoyment of the game in my experience.
Forget the NEX / AUR nonsense (though, CCP is managing things terribly and Hilmar is a complete ass). That's just background noise for me. What about all of the buggy crap that you guys have introduced recently? What about Null-sec changes w/barely an ounce of warning? And what about the 50 server-side fittings?
tl;dr - Trust is gone due to consistently poor service and product delivery over the past 18 months.
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Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[596]
Thanks for the blog, it might calm the lynch mob down a bit.
However
1) It was still put in words that leave some room to speculate. No gold ammo could mean no items of power whatsoever or it could mean literally that, no ammo but something else that will break the sandbox. How about gold ships? Weapons? Blueprints? Could it mean no items but generic improved performance like extra fitting slots? These might work on other games but when you have a competetive game with consequences magicking stuff from outside just breaks the foundation of the sandbox. BTW you might want to refer to this thread if you need to see the opinion of the community (the vote count is from page 25 or so but the spread of votes follow the general notion of it).
2) Furthermore I'm concerned about the developement of EvE. From the material made available it sounded like EvE gets just minor developement resources and most of our subscription money gets redirected to Dust and WoD. This wouldn't be a problem if the last three expansions would have added more to the space part of the game, or at least had fixed some of the old problems. Instead we got a clickfest in preparation of Dust, Incursions (which are actually pretty neat but limited) with some tweaking of the planetary clickfest and now after several years of waiting a small room with a dress-up shop. Of course we understand that these are works in progress for something greater but one cannot think that you are ignoring the main gameplay that drew the players to this game in the first place.
I understand you cannot answer these before consulting the CSM (which might be the best solution) but they are up here for reading. Hopefully it's of some use for evaluating the current problem. (Note that I didn't touch the MT store pricing or mandatory CQ, these are more important IMO.)
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Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:16:00 -
[597]
To the CSM:
First off, thank you guys for those replies in this thread which do a hell of a lot more then Zulu's blog.
Here is the issue that I would like you to comment on:
At your last meeting with CCP, Zymurgist tried to sneak a Scorpion into the Nex shop, but as I understand you guys told him in no uncertain terms that that was unacceptable.
He then took you all out to dinner, got you all drunk, and then over the course of several hours whittled away at you until he seemed to have an agreement to release the Cash-for-Scorpion for one week only (Oh really???.)
And so along he arrives with his Nex shop, complete with the Cash-for-Scorpion, and all with the blessing of the CSM.
THIS is how I see CCP's strategy for your meeting next week working.
Question is: Would it be possible for you all too please abstain from alcohol and/ or drugs and/or hookers for the duration of your stay in Iceland?
CCP: Consistency since 2003 |
Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:16:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.
It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see.
What would be extremely efficient is a Devblog unequivocally stating that there will never be non-vanity items for sale.
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Adellle Nadair
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[599]
Thank you CCP for continuing to provide open communication about Eve.
Contrary to most of the flamer responses, I am happy to hear about an internal newsletter that's purpose is to inspire debate and critical thought. This further highlights your commitment to being an intelligent, leading gaming company.
Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see how you will expand and enrich the Eve Universe next.
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Sax Delphinus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[600]
This is good enough that I'll stop shooting up Jita. I have to be picky though and agree that until I get a clear "There will never be non-vanity items, period", I won't be re-subbing. Hopefully this CSM meeting will bring the clarity we want.
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Madenofpain
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[601]
I have read Zulu blog but still have my alts account unsubscribed and not planning on getting another plex to renew this one tell I here CCP say you will not do any game changing items like ships or skill points, and so on. Once I hear this I will be more than happy to reactivate my accounts. I hope you listen to the community on this issues.
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Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[602]
CSM going to Iceland? Wouldn't that be putting pressure on them? I mean, argue much and you're swimming home... ... oh, a white bunny...
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Sophie Vherokior
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[603]
CCP Zulu's latest blog is definitely a step in the right direction. Clear information and a clear tone. Also, it takes a big man to step up in front of thousands and admit to making mistakes, so cut the guy some slack.
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions. CCP, we built this game together. Sure you programmed the code and made the pretty spaceships, but us players built the corporations, the alliances, the lotteries, the univesities, the scams and politics and spying and all the other stuff that sets EVE apart from the other games out there. You gave us a sandbox and we built sandcastles. You cannot ignore us or say that our opinions do not matter, we have put as much time and energy into this as you have and paid you good money for the privilege.
Please take some time internally to reflect on your attitude towards your customers. I've worked many years in IT administration and support and I know how easy it is to 'demonize' the users (or in your case players). Users are seen as unreasonable, demanding and often to be the cause of their own problems. The irony here is that once you take such a stance towards your users you become part of the problem and without even knowing it will treat the unreasonable and the reasonable alike. Suddenly it becomes OK to send out a mail to all your employers stating that the users are 'very predictable' in their complaints and that instead of addressing those complaints we shall simply 'stay the course'.
In other words it might be time to have an internal discussion as to the danger of becoming jaded and bitter from the encounters with your customers.
Just my two cents.
Soph
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[604]
Originally by CCP Fallout
Recently, a third-party Web site stated that they had received confidential information regarding a buyout of CCP by Sony Online Entertainment. I can confirm that neither Sony nor CCP are in such discussions, and CCP is and remains and independent company.
Good work, a swift, firm NO, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING.
I applaud such clear communication.
So....Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?
I repeat
Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?
Says it all really.....
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Ameiva
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Mersault
Gallente The Pie Factory
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 -
[606]
I see this as a positive reply to the community by CCP Zulu. I understand the concerns of the players who have been enraged by the prospect of sandbox breaking or market altering Aurum purchases.
I will be watching to see what the summit brings.
EvE forever.
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Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 -
[607]
To Arnar Hrafn Gylfason aka CCP Zulu Your post is a first step, but it isn't what I want to hear.
1st. If you are "fueled" by emotions, ask your comrades to have a look over your text, before you insult thousands of players.
2nd. you want to buy time. instead of giving the demanded answers to the community, you flee in an ominous emergency meeting with the csm. why the csm?? THE VOTE OF THE COMMUNITY IS HERE! so open your eyes and start working!
WE WANT ANSWERS NOW AND NOT IN AN UNCLEAR FUTURE! by your plans either the rage will continue one further week, arrousing of more and more members, or you will act. and i advise you to act. the numbers of dissappointed players that will quit eve will not be stopped by your post. YOU HAVE TO ACT NOW, NOT IN A WEEK!
3rd. why others? you are responsible for the communication catastrophy, zulu, stand for it!
4th. what mutual agreement? you betrayed us. you lied to us. you have to build the foundation for further trust. how can you speak about mutuality?
5th. what underlying concerns? read the posts of the responses to your last devblog. its your task! there you'll see what concerns are clearly pointed out. there are some posts of pure and unproductive hate, but there are some posts of clear and constructive critcism. do what you are paid for and read the posts!
6th. why patience? asking for patience means that you haven't understood. eve is burning. forums are burning. and you have kindled the flame to light the protest. if you let it burn, if you stay in "patience", eve won't be eve anymore, but you just let it burn. patience is a bad advice in this situation.
7th. be fearless! you, sir, have fear. patience, csm, no answers to onging matters, buying time - what are you doing?? GIVE ANSWERS, NOW! DO YOUR JOB! AND CALM DOWN THE RAGE NOW BY CLEAR DECISIONS BY ADMITTING A FAULT THAT YOU NOR CCP NOR OTHERS OF CCP WONT DO AGAIN! DON'T TREAT US LIKE "CASH COWS", CLOSE YOUR NEX-STORE AND NEVER OPEN IT AGAIN!!
you, zulu, have not convinced me. try harder!
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zelda Wei
Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:21:00 -
[609]
"breach of trust"
It should be pretty obvious who this refers to, one person broke the NDA and published the leak.
Is he going to receive the same punishment as the previous CSM member to do the same or are we going to see a double standard at work?
The damage impact of this leak and has been much greater than the previous incident.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:22:00 -
[610]
I would like to see a dev roadmap as to what features and fixes are planned for the next 12 month time frame (at a minimum.)
I'm less concerned about MTs and more concerned whether Eve is going to focus on Space Barbie or on internet spaceships and to what degree.
----- <wearing_$1000_jeans> Let them eat cake! </wearing_$1000_jeans> |
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Svalinn
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[611]
Judge the players on what we do, less on what they say.
This is a two way street - we judge the company on what it does, and less on what it says. Unfortunately, the company has done nothing but talk so far, so we're kinda left living on scraps. So I'll bite CCP Zulu, and I'll show you the problems you have. I'll point out what you said, and what it translates as.
Quote: The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words. However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
A breach of trust is never easy, and you are quite right; you have shattered the trust between us almost for good. The person/persons responsible for the leaked information are heroes in the eyes of the community. And I feel terrible because you are just going to fire/discipline them, the ones who tried to warn us what you were planning.
Quote: For that I am sorry.
Is this honest?
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Our bond was strong. Then you ignored the CSM, you ignored the players, you treated us like crap and thought you could get away for it. In a single week, you have made EVE Online the laughing stock of the gaming world, broke apart corporations and groups of friends more completely than the best scam, and alienated a player base that is unlike anything else. We are not just some WoW crowd. We are the products of the biggest sandbox ever known; politics, deceit, strategy are our trade. Through this we know you; we know how you operate; we know when you are talking truth, and when you are talking out your arse. Right now, its the latter.
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
So why does the CSM need to run to Iceland with 4 days notice, to tell you what you already know? Lets be clear: Don't do this unless they actually mean something to you. Otherwise you waste their time and by extension ours.
Quote: The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
The CSM are the player voice. Right now, that's one very large, very angry voice. There is only one option we will accept, there is no room for compromise.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
"gold ammo" is specific, you don't rule out others. What you haven't answered is the big question - Will you sell anything other than Vanity items? This is another example of how information without substance is no information at all.
This isn't about the CSM communicating the player opinion. It's about you being prepared to listen and learn.
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Jedek
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[612]
Now I'm sure your hilmars ***** Zulu. It doesn't take a summoning of the csm and a week long delay to solve this problem. 1. Don't sell rmt items that give any in game advantage. Keep it strictly vanity. 2 cq needs to be optional with a disembark button.... Like you guys originally promised. 3. Fix a lot of the old **** you put in game but left alone.
All you are doing is buying time and moving the goal post. I dont want to see the nex evolve, I want it to always sell useless crap that won't effect squat. The csm response should be simple, you violated our trust the nex will not go beyond vanity items period. Oh fire hilmar and Zulu since all you seem to be able to do is come across as hilmars lap dog.
You really stepped in it, and I truly hope this game goes the route of swg if the current leadership remains at the helm. Nge ftw.
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gargars
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Sophie Vherokior
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions.
THIS. No rosy blogs or delay-tactic meetings with the CSM will negate this.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Either way, MT would still be optional.
àand that's still a thoroughly narrow-minded way of approaching the issue and ignores the fact that MT can quite easily compromise the market. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Thynar
Gallente Melita Foundation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:24:00 -
[615]
This is my first comment on all this issue. I have taken a backseat while trying to digest all the info drowning the spacewaves. My position, as if anyone cares, is against MT for non-vanity items. I could not care less if a monocle costs 50 cents or a million Euros as long as it does not affect gameplay.
The last Zulu devblog leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. Once again he reiterates on the Fearless newsletter. I find it hard to swallow his line that the Fearless articles were only for internal debate. Should I accept that at face value, it still leaves an unanswered querstion - if the EVE comunity rejected MT for non-vanity items a while ago, why would CCP even need to debate it?
I do not believe that a new and controversial revenue stream like MT is within the CSM's competency. It is a high level decision in any company - the meeting with the CSM screams of delaying tactics.
Fianlly, although I appreciate that "gold ammo" may be interpreted in many ways, please note that a subtantial amount of players in this thread (including me) are not satisfied. We need a statement a la Trebor (apparently struck off by Zulu) to ease our concerns. Incredibly, while the SOE rumour was killed in under an hour, CCP cannot give us this last request.
I have ditched every game that went down the MT road. EVE will be no exception. I am still subbed with two accounts - an alt which runs out on the 7th of July and this character expiring on the 21st of July. My EVE experience seems to be at an end - P2W is not fun for me.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:25:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Mersault I see this as a positive reply to the community by CCP Zulu. I understand the concerns of the players who have been enraged by the prospect of sandbox breaking or market altering Aurum purchases.
I will be watching to see what the summit brings.
EvE forever.
Positive would have been to say there would be no non-vanity items in the MT shop. I see nothing positive in continually avoiding the question.
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Calistai Huranu
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:25:00 -
[617]
A cast iron promise of No Non-vanity item's will ever be available through Aurum would of sufficed, just stating No "gold" ammo is not enough, as such don't expect me to be renewing my account once its time run's out, thoroughly disgusted by the attitude and behaviour of CCP throughout this debacle.
And to think I was actually contemplating re-activating one of my other account's just last week, to say that's highly unlikely to happen now is a bit of an understatement..
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OldPueblo
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:26:00 -
[618]
CCP reveal your financials, we will audit them.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:26:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Jedek Now I'm sure your hilmars ***** Zulu. It doesn't take a summoning of the csm and a week long delay to solve this problem. 1. Don't sell rmt items that give any in game advantage. Keep it strictly vanity. 2 cq needs to be optional with a disembark button.... Like you guys originally promised. 3. Fix a lot of the old **** you put in game but left alone.
All you are doing is buying time and moving the goal post. I dont want to see the nex evolve, I want it to always sell useless crap that won't effect squat. The csm response should be simple, you violated our trust the nex will not go beyond vanity items period. Oh fire hilmar and Zulu since all you seem to be able to do is come across as hilmars lap dog.
You really stepped in it, and I truly hope this game goes the route of swg if the current leadership remains at the helm. Nge ftw.
Overreacting a bit, aren't we? I'm sorry I have to say, speak for yourself.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[620]
From CSM5 Chair Mynxee, who is currently unsubbed:
Zulu: Thanks for this devblog. We have asked you to engage with the CSM on these weighty recent matters. There is no better demonstration of your commitment to that than flying them to Iceland for face to face communications. This has been a terribly uncomfortable and stressful time for everyone (even people like me who, despite no longer being subbed, cannot seem to stop caring about EVE and its community). I hope this meeting provides a way forward that is in the best interests of EVE, the players, and CCP. Also, I hope that the subsequent minutes are published speedily and in conjunction with dialog and dev blogs from CCP to communicate the results.
Originally by: Mena Arzi What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.
That was part of the original MT discussions with CSM5, the upshot of which was that MT should be vanity-only, and that PLEX for Remaps -- which was a plan that was floated to us, but never formally planned AFAIK -- was over the line.
Thus, no PLEX for Remaps.
Originally by: Garrance If you realize speed is a big issue - why make us all wait for a week or more by talking to CCP in ICELAND? Do it by Skype and save us all that time waiting. Otherwise it seems just a CCP delay tactic.
We do a lot of Skype chats, and have done voice conferences with CCP in the past. But honestly, they are not nearly as good as being able to look people in the eye and see them sweat when you ask them the tough questions.
That's why people fly around the world for meetings -- they are much higher bandwidth.
No doubt some CSMs will have work obligations that prevent them from attending, and will teleconference in if possible. But that is a poor substitute IMHO -- so in this respect I must disagree with my colleague Meissa.
And of course, we are not going to sit around with our thumbs up our asses for the next few days, we'll be very, very busy prepping.
Originally by: Mag's Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised.
By a staggering coincidence, this is already on our list...
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Ranger 1
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
While you're out white knighting on your horse, consider at one time MTs were never on the table.
At one point, neither were PLEX.
My point is that the release of the edited, out of context issue of Fearless was little more than an attention grab.
Sensationalistic journalism at it's finest.
Yet instead of cynically realizing this as the EVE community should have easily been capable of doing, it instead allowed the forum trolls to whip people into a mindless frenzy over it.
A LARGE number of people did not fall for it, and tried to say so. However they were repeatedly drown out by those self same trolls.
Believe what you want.
Like everyone else here, I will be waiting to see what CCP does and pay more attention to that than what they say. An attitude that apparently CCP heartily endorses.
I just refuse to allow doctored documents and half baked theories to interfere with my judgement.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[622]
Just another blatant stall tactic.
And insulting blog once you dissect what it means.
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Souxie Alduin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[623]
"However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days."
Umm.. could someone from CCP elaborate on this? This is definitely the part of this blog that has me the most worried. Did someone at the top sell you out? Are your venture capitalist investors forcing MT down your throat? Are you joining Sony and is it really their PR people talking through your mouths right now?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[624]
It's sad to see you have to REpromise somethin you allready did back in 2009 but ok.
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st
We will watch your actions, not your word.
That said there was no better action then actually doing something real like this. But it comes down to what happens that day.
We know you can answer 300 forum posters, and 1000's of players ingame one on one. But you fail to answer the questions of the CSM in such a small group, then it's fing over forever. And not just eve, I'll make sure to denounce all your future games too all of my friends as well.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[625]
Ok guys, it's time to give this meeting a chance. I was there in the last thread complaining. I was there in the protests. And now I'm joining the call for a ceasefire here. I'm happy with the answer to MT presented, I'm willing to take them at their word and hope that they move forward with the CSM in good faith.
It's time to give diplomacy a chance people, and to take them at their word on MT. Please, please don't manufacture problems based on wording or some other *******s, it makes us look like a bunch of ******s and it's going to make them disinclined to listen to our concerns.
Right now, Jaw jaw > war war
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[626]
Originally by: CCP Zulu virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE
they will evolve until we are expected to buy ships, ammo, other items, skillpoints ETC for real money and EVE is pay2win.
CCP once more trying to extinguish a fire with oxygen.
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Randomize All
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[627]
What you do, not what you say.
Who you ban, not what you do.
Where will it end?
I don't know. Certainly not Perpetuum though, that really wasn't for me.
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Astar Kreth
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:29:00 -
[628]
Edited by: Astar Kreth on 26/06/2011 20:31:53 I would like to thank CCP Zulu for this message, and emphasize that I fully understand why you too would be frustrated with the response from the EVE community.
Obviously you at CCP have put in months of work into Incarna, and to have to have it thrown back in your face is clearly difficult.
I think I mirror the majority of the community when I say that All people want is to make sure that AUR can be used to enable people to come into the game, spend a few hundred dollars and suddenly have the same skills/ships/mods that some of the older members (with my account being an '08 activation I do not personally fit this group) have had to work years and years to obtain. I was personally involved in the protest in Amarr, but hope for a ceasefire soon, there is no sense in us fighting as we all want the same result. A great game with internet spaceships for us to enjoy
Golden Bullets only seek to destabilize the game, There is nothing quite like seeing a 100million + SP toon in action, and the reason for this is that they are rare. Lets keep these grandfathers of the game as just that.
I would like to commend the EVE community for grouping together and expressing their opinions during what has been a difficult week, and I heartily support the extraordinary CSM meeting, as even before the meeting is held, the step itself does a great amount to emphasize the degree of respect CCP has for the online community.
Looking forward to the ongoing debate, and Respect to both CCP and the Community.
Long Live Eve Online.
Best regards
Astar Kreth
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:29:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Svennig Ok guys, it's time to give this meeting a chance. I was there in the last thread complaining. I was there in the protests. And now I'm joining the call for a ceasefire here. I'm happy with the answer to MT presented, I'm willing to take them at their word and hope that they move forward with the CSM in good faith.
It's time to give diplomacy a chance people, and to take them at their word on MT. Please, please don't manufacture problems based on wording or some other *******s, it makes us look like a bunch of ******s and it's going to make them disinclined to listen to our concerns.
Right now, Jaw jaw > war war
The meeting is 3 days to late mate. And only stalls this out longer.
Its been made pretty freaking clear what we want. They need to roll back on everything. Then have a meeting and decide where to go from there.
And actually mean what they say.
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Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:30:00 -
[630]
Quote: ...we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
Is going back on your word regarding MT a sign that there is any semblance of these noble ideals? Is the following an indicator of a deep mutual trust and respect?
Quote: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
Probably not.
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Helena Russell Makanen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:31:00 -
[631]
Originally by: The Mittani This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
So as you say CCP in face-to-face meetings have discounted what the CSM says, doesn't communicate on controversial topics, and basically does what they want or lies to you.
So why rush out there as part of a delay tactic where the same will occur?
You are being used. Do it on skype and save us all a lot of time. They can do all those things on voice, it doesn't have to be in person.
I think we are all sick of CCP delay tactics - why assist in another?
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Zalyz S'venfirion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:32:00 -
[632]
Originally by: Sha Dar NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
These.
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Dr Geiger
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:32:00 -
[633]
Can I ask please, who out of the CSM are able to attend this meeting ?
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Vincentus
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:33:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Gedid Tava As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.
However...
My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.
If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."
So we are allowed to pod devs now?
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:33:00 -
[635]
Now was that so hard?
Thank you for taking a step in the right direction.
Call me crazy but I am going to assume "gold ammo" is MT for game changing advantage, and not literally specialized ammo sold for Aurum.
I hope your meeting with CSM is productive.
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Syri Taneka
The Perfect Storm
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:34:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
QFT --------------------------------------
Bishop Endarr > christ, the church is a massive smack machine |
Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:34:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Ranger 1
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
While you're out white knighting on your horse, consider at one time MTs were never on the table.
At one point, neither were PLEX.
My point is that the release of the edited, out of context issue of Fearless was little more than an attention grab.
Sensationalistic journalism at it's finest.
Yet instead of cynically realizing this as the EVE community should have easily been capable of doing, it instead allowed the forum trolls to whip people into a mindless frenzy over it.
A LARGE number of people did not fall for it, and tried to say so. However they were repeatedly drown out by those self same trolls.
Believe what you want.
Like everyone else here, I will be waiting to see what CCP does and pay more attention to that than what they say. An attitude that apparently CCP heartily endorses.
I just refuse to allow doctored documents and half baked theories to interfere with my judgement.
That's all very well and good, but CCP were at fault there they should has issued statements at the time. They were quick enough to correct the Sony rumour.
Plus they've still avoided the main question, will non-vanity items be for sale in the MT shop?
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Mena Arzi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:35:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mena Arzi What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.
That was part of the original MT discussions with CSM5, the upshot of which was that MT should be vanity-only, and that PLEX for Remaps -- which was a plan that was floated to us, but never formally planned AFAIK -- was over the line.
Thus, no PLEX for Remaps.
Ok, but how did it end up on SiSi then?
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:35:00 -
[639]
Just so we're clear, if we don't like what you do, we have to send 10 people on a free trip to Iceland?
It makes absolutely no sense.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:35:00 -
[640]
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
I call BS... The fearless newsletter contained pro's and con's from 2 employees... Now look at page 9. Here let me help you:
"CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?"
This opening line isn't about debate you moron...... More---- "Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
Just caught you in a lie....... Yes-- you did and do still have plans to continue down the MT road..... We are not idiots........
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HanSolos Daddy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:35:00 -
[641]
Quote: Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright.
In his latest blog "Arnar Hrafn Gylfason" aka "Mr. N0 Credibility" says that this statement was taken "out of context." A large number of concerned Eve players have been asking for him and CCP to put it in context by answering a simple yes or no question. CCP has refused.
A large number of concerned Eve players have been putting this issue in a context that CCP understands, by cancelling subscriptions. Whether one agrees with that action or not, at least those players are communicating clearly, and in a language CCP understands. Eve players deserve the same courtesy from CCP, but I'm not holding my breath...
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:35:00 -
[642]
We should email SONY online entertainment and ask them what they think about their current partner. And how they are now associated with a Second NGE type company.
Notice how they avoided the question of NON VANITY items by talking about GOLD AMMO.
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Xia Kairui
Lone Star Exploration
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:37:00 -
[643]
To be honest I'd be upset if a company would NOT explore the possible options set before them. Thus I am perfectly fine if CCP would look at MTs and the feasability of it, as long as it is viewed in a neutral light. I am not against MTs - if someone wants to spend money to buy some bits I have no qualms with it, especially if the money from that guy helps CCP maintain current subscription prices or even lower them. Hell, if EVE became free to play with vanity MTs I wouldn't care. The problem is that once money for in-game features begin it's hard to stop. It's a monocle today, a spaceship from thing air tomorrow, a titan in high sec the day after and forced sov takeover a week later. Initially I was in the "CCP will know what is right for EVE" faction, but their handling of the player concerns have pushed me out of that corner and into a very careful reconsideration of the situation. I don't want EVE to become a pay to win game, even if the partial implementation of it (PLEX) allows me to trade in computer time for game time. And the trust has severely been compromised lately.
-------------------------
One more word: CCP Fallout, thank you for stepping into this lions den of a forum with what appears to be a calm voice of reason, especially on what should be a weekend off work for you.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:38:00 -
[644]
Edited by: Mag''s on 26/06/2011 20:41:48
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mag's Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised.
By a staggering coincidence, this is already on our list...
Thank you Robert. I am not against Incarna, in fact look forward to walking in stations and whatever comes with it. But please let this happen when I wish to disembark from my ship.
The option should be there for either ship hanger or CQ when docking, with a button for CQ from the ship hanger.
Thanks for replying.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Adrian Dixon
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:39:00 -
[645]
Zulu your statement is not 100% clear and not 100% unambiguous there for it is a failure.
I would like to see the NeX store and Aurium removed from the game completely. It's entire existance goes against the reason I signed up to EVE the reasons I decided to play this game and invest in the subscription, the reson why I am so disolutioned with so many game companies and game developers.
I have left every game that turned into a micro transaction game and EVE will be no different to me. My account subscription runs out in 27days I hope then you can truly judge my actions not my words.
Thank You to the CSM's I have spoken with, I hope you can find a real solution in these meetings.
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Shemmy
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:39:00 -
[646]
I feel sorry for Zulu, I'm pretty sure he's going to be "sacrificed" when this finally reaches a resolution (if not before) and my feeling is it's not his fault.
But there is an obvious policy here that CCP will not be persuaded away from; they want to use MT as much as possible and they want it to include non-vanity items, and they simply cannot confirm what people want to hear as a result because it would be a lie.
At least it seems they have learnt *THAT* lesson.
Sad Panda is sad.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:40:00 -
[647]
I like the tone better, however we do have the image now that the public face does not like the private face.
This seems a much better PR release than the previous blog which was a disaster.
I do like the no "gold ammo" comment. However I would like "gold ammo" defined clearly. Does that just mean special ammunition or like all of us are wanting it to mean, ships, mods, rigs, drones, ammo, that is anything that has better stats than industrialist can already make. I don't care about just reskins so long as the person has to take a like regular item to the store + AUR to get some special paint job etc, I just don't want anything that creates anything out of thin air that is used in space or in any future combat in stations. Nor do I want anything that creates something that has better stats game wise.
I like you want to talk to the CSM, not sure why this couldn't be done by skype or video conferencing but I'm glad to hear about it. However I do caution you have ignored or avoided their input now since really the current CSM took office, that's clear by recent events. So basically if its just a meeting to say this is it get in line or get out, you're going to ignite a firestorm and prove many like myself that have long claimed it that the CSM are nothing more than figureheads.
We'll see who betrayed who I guess after the meeting but it is foolish to have no other comments til after that. Silence is what is killing you. You need to go back to the old days and communicate often, genuinely and earnestly with the community. Only through such will you ever really regain trust.
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Draekas Darkwater
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:40:00 -
[648]
I'm not hopeful, but hopefully something good comes of this.
Haven't read this entire thread so someone may have suggested this already, but if not.
I'd like to request that if possible the meetings themselves should be recorded and posted on youtube or some similar venue soon afterwards. Normally this isnt possible due to the NDA nature of some of the discussions. However, at this point, there is a Titan sized credibility gap that exists between the players and CCP itself. Besides, I think that nothing but the blunt, honest truth is going to begin to restore any confidence in the company for those of us upset by all this crap.
I wan't to hear and see the people talking and read thier reactions myself, not try to read someone else's impressions of what is said. Body language is an important part of communication, and I'd like to see and hear for myself exactly what happens there.
If that is NOT possible, then my request to the CSM is to have a fireside chat right or soon afterwards to tell us what happened and take questions from the playerbase about what was talked about and what is/could/should be done about it.
Thanks, DW
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Callisto Ares
Companion Cube Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:40:00 -
[649]
This is one of the moments where we act on what CCP does and not what they say. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:41:00 -
[650]
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Maplestone
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[651]
Edited by: Maplestone on 26/06/2011 20:45:33 I feel that the community has drawn the line in the sand in a confusing place.
Between the argument over vanity/non-vanity and the price of the NEX, I think that it gives the impression that there is strong demand when in fact, I don't think the community has ever accepted its existence. It's just that force of will has bullied its way this far. The community thinks "well, at least it doesn't affect me because I have no interest in spending there EVER" and the advocates of the store go "ok, we're getting our foot in the door and we can work on wearing down their resistance as we go".
But it's not about the store, it's about the game:
PLEX makes NEX completely redundant. The only difference is that the NEX is 100% gameplay-free. It cuts out all that messy part of actually playing the game: opening accounts, training skills, mining, fighting over resources and manufacturing the end item. A monacle only looks different from a carrier because there's no obvious reason *why* you need a monacle. But in the back of somebody's mind is the idea that eventually corps will have dress codes and that peer presure will get enough on board with spending in NEX to make it essentially as mandatory as a capital ship, even if you can still particapte in a theory in a newbie frigate.
To me this is the fundemental disconnect of vision and it is getting confused by the illusion of agreement between demands of "no non-vanity" and assurances of "no gold ammo".
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
I would like to echo the words of many here and would ask for CQ to be optional. I don't mean for a while, I mean for good. The current docking screen offers little functionality, and I would like to be able to do stuff like double click anywhere in the dock for the cargo hold. I never asked for Incarna, and it affects everyone. Bring the original docking interface back please. This is my biggest concern, along of course with an answer of if MT are staying. Not just non-vanity, but vanity as well. Vanity items for real money are a cheap money making scheme that has no place in EVE in my opinion.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[653]
Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Svennig Ok guys, it's time to give this meeting a chance. I was there in the last thread complaining. I was there in the protests. And now I'm joining the call for a ceasefire here. I'm happy with the answer to MT presented, I'm willing to take them at their word and hope that they move forward with the CSM in good faith.
It's time to give diplomacy a chance people, and to take them at their word on MT. Please, please don't manufacture problems based on wording or some other *******s, it makes us look like a bunch of ******s and it's going to make them disinclined to listen to our concerns.
Right now, Jaw jaw > war war
The meeting is 3 days to late mate. And only stalls this out longer.
Its been made pretty freaking clear what we want. They need to roll back on everything. Then have a meeting and decide where to go from there.
And actually mean what they say.
Nothing to stop the protests and complaints in the future dude. Let's forget that they're late to the party and just be glad that they've come at all.
Again, please, this is a ceasefire. It's not an end to the fight. It doesn't mean we dont care any more. It doesn't mean they won. It means that they're going to the negotiating table, and we must join them in good faith.
If we continue to protest, if we continue to post complaints on the forums, it harms our cause at this point. Talk to the CSM. Make sure they know what to do. And let them run with it.
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Lord Khelben
Amarr Wildly Inappropriate Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[654]
Thank you for your post Zulu. And as others in the CSM have already mentioned, I am sure this weekend must have been an emotionally rough one for you as well as many others at CCP watching this train-wreck unfold. While I can certainly empathize with how difficult it must have been for you, the reality is that you made your bed and now you are lying in it. You reap what you sow.
For a while now, CCP has taken for granted the fierce dedication and loyalty of EVE pilots, and you made the grievous error of assuming that our loyalties and passions were for you. You are very wrong.
Our dedication and loyalty is for the universe we co-created with you.
This universe is as much our work as it is yours. This is why we feel so passionate about it, this is why we rage when we feel that our labor of love is threatened. I am absolutely certain you can completely understand our desire to protect what we love, even as some choose to abandon it while it remains a shadow of what we remember it to be; some would rather preserve the memory of it than watch it corrupt.
You should definitely feel proud that you've co-authored something so massive, so organic, so evolving, and so unique as EVE, but all of CCP would do well to remember, especially important decision makers like Hilmar, that EVE is only ever what it is now because it is a collaboration with us, your pilots, your customers, your co-creators of New Eden as we know it. After all, isn't that what EVE is all about: "The Universe, Unscripted"? You may have created the body in which New Eden exists, but we are the cells in that body, and we are fighting to protect what you are doing to it against your own better judgement. We are, in essence, doing what we can to save EVE and CCP from itself.
Trust has been broken over the course of many poor decisions made largely in part to a "rock-star" attitude CCP leadership really needs to shed, so you'll have to forgive us if we remain skeptical. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, you've learned your lesson a little bit this time, will work toward positive change in how CCP communicates and collaborates with us, the co-authors and passionate participants of this sandbox universe you've kicked off. Just remember that this passion you've cultivated in us for EVE that has made CCP as successful as it is today can be just as destructive as it is creative when carelessly or arrogantly not taken care of.
Show the players some love and you won't be unhappy with the outcome.
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Ilmunel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[655]
i would like more direct answer about more than vanity items qestion, so i will wait with renewal of my accs
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:43:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Republica Winder CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!
WTF!
Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.
This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.
CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.
The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.
Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.
They aren't angry at us, they're angry at the breach of trust that happened from the inside
The only breach of trust on the inside to be angry at are those who decided to ramrod RMT down our throats.
As for whomever leaked all this stuff to us, they are to be applauded as heroic.
If the leaks hadn't happened CCP would have been able to take their ill gotten gains (our continued subscriptions) and done their pay-to-win plans behind the curtain and sprung it on us unawares. Now we know what their plans are, the cat is out of the bag.
No. These leaks are anything but heroic, particularly the leak of shareholders' information. The shareholders' information leak alone can cause great damage to the corporation, and was most likely leaked with clear, malicious intent.
So, no.
At least in my country shareholder information is matter of public and corporation actyally has to provide that information on request.
Ho ever leaked inside ccp, i would promote him as headman of community team, hes the only one that actyally tough as players during this ccp ****up. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
Daenna Chrysi
Amarr Omega Foundry Unit Shadows Of Betrayal
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:43:00 -
[657]
Quote: and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
in other words it is not a negotiation, it is about making the CSM do the work of the PR department so that the player base will swallow the AUR.
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Korbin Dallaz
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:44:00 -
[658]
( in my best Bill Clinton voice ) : " I did not have sexual relations with that woman (long pause) Monica Lewinski. "
The question asked and reposted thousands of times in a few different ways was will the Noble store be expanded beyond vanity items and you comment about gold ammo only leaving the door wide open to platinum ammo skill points for plex and what ever else did not address the question. You also completely avoid the whole topic about if you had promised the CSM that MT would never expand beyond vanity items a few months before the release of the Fearless issue titled Greed is good then why was it even being discussed?
I challenge any of you married guys at CCP to have meetings with some other woman and discuss the possibility of cheating on your wife and then leak it to your wife then tell her that you were only debating the topic. I'm sure it would go by without further incident.
I am not sure why I am even discussing this here as it appears that you guys have your minds made up already and the only thing you will listen to at this point is canceled subscriptions and my guess is that by the time those get high enough to alarm you it will likely be too late.
So either your plan works and a lot of new players come to replace the vets that are leaving and eve continues on to lead the gaming world in mediocrity and selling out or total player numbers drop way off and Eve dies. Either way you've drawn your line in the sand and the only way back you seem determined to never allow to happen.
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Elsamad
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:44:00 -
[659]
I don't care one way or the other about MT, and honestly, I don't care about p2w transactions (here's the important part coming) SO LONG AS THEY ARE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE!
Take Aurum out of the equation entirely, let people buy plex and cash them in for isk, same as they've always been doing. Keep the NEx for the people that like shiny crap or putting my little pony decals all over their ships. Hell, put in extra ship slots through the NEx, but let me and anyone else buy them with isk...ISK that we either earned by ratting/missioning/mining/scamming/piracy or bought with plex.
Think it won't be a cash cow? not directly...but at least this won't alienate your multi-account, multi-year, paying customers who're capable of crashing the game economy and burning the castle to the ground in a fit of (justifable) nerdrage...and will keep them here, paying subs, buying plex, etc, and will keep the eve online community the one that was voted 'best' by tentonhammer and others. THE BEST.
This character is a total carebear...I deal with hulkageddon, I deal with can-flippers, suicide gankers, jita scammers, valentine operatives in the corp, the whole bit...why? because I LIKE THE GAME! This place, with the crapbrown clouds in amarr space, the incursions all over the place, and the random violence more indicative of the old west than the 'future of humanity' has charm and yeah, a hell of a lot of flaws too.
Until CCP stopped listening to its players. Until the devs stopped writing a game with lore, history, immersion and a gritty feel where you 'could' lose yourself in 'spreadsheets in space' (DIFFICULT FEAT FOR JUST PRETTY PICTURES)
We, The People, the pod pilots, have made eve the place it is. For many of us..a home.
It's been said that CCP built the sandbox, and said 'Here you will be gods, to soar above those poor planetbound souls, to rein through immortality and resurrection to make the skies tremble and the fabric of the universe itself quake with titanic fury!'
Eve players, all of us, we have egoes, true...but rightly earned. We are not only special in the game world, but we are a special type of player...the insane learning CLIFF, the random odd changes to what is for intents and purposes, a reality, the promise that WE would have lasting impact through sovereignty or through building corporations that could topple empires...THAT is a special kind of gamer. the gamer for whom this game was originally written and built.
Do any of you guys that wanted this kind of game to start with ever play it? You and you, at the dev chairs, who dreamt of ruling the stars...what do you play now? Do you still come into eve and go 'Wow! THIS is what I was looking for in a GAME!' or do you just plod your way through your day and collect a paycheck releasing half finished and shoddy work? Would YOU ever play the game that you're releasing?
And it's true, Eve isn't the game it once was. But it could still be great. IF you remember where you came from.
How many still remember that first (often stupid or suicidal) flight into lowsec space to nab a ship or a bit of cargo, hearts pounding and palms sweating the whole time?
How about looking at that first million isk and going 'man, I DID that!'
How about that first time you miners wiped out a belt solo, or you pvpers took down a bs with your cruiser because you were SMARTER than him?
It's because we are a specialty, CCP. A niche market. You will never, I'm sorry to say, succeed by trying to appeal to the majority of the world markets by lining up your dedicated, diehard, halfdozen (average) year playerbase up against the wall and shooting them individually in the face.
CCP Zulu, I respect that you apologized, but if anyone asks me (unlikely) This is a time to remember the subscribers, the PEOPLE that built this game, and remember that if they are unhappy, they WILL LEAVE. Period. And no amount of new subscribers will rebuilt what was (and could be again) the crown jewel of gaming.
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Korbin Dallaz
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:48:00 -
[660]
Originally by: QwaarJet
I would like to echo the words of many here and would ask for CQ to be optional. I don't mean for a while, I mean for good. The current docking screen offers little functionality, and I would like to be able to do stuff like double click anywhere in the dock for the cargo hold. I never asked for Incarna, and it affects everyone. Bring the original docking interface back please. This is my biggest concern, along of course with an answer of if MT are staying. Not just non-vanity, but vanity as well. Vanity items for real money are a cheap money making scheme that has no place in EVE in my opinion.
This
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Pao An
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:48:00 -
[661]
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Pao An
Originally by: Juan Sezole NONONONONO
Zulu you did it again.
WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT
GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS
Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.
Speak for yourself, I don't particularly mind MT...I just mind MT that gives you an ingame advantage/boost
I was speaking for my self and answering someone who presumed to speak for me by stating that no one wants MT even for vanity items. I never said I was for MT that gave in game advantages. So grow up and quit twisting things just because you are looking for a fight.
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Dalton Vanadis
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:49:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow From CSM5 Chair Mynxee, who is currently unsubbed:
Zulu: Thanks for this devblog. We have asked you to engage with the CSM on these weighty recent matters. There is no better demonstration of your commitment to that than flying them to Iceland for face to face communications. This has been a terribly uncomfortable and stressful time for everyone (even people like me who, despite no longer being subbed, cannot seem to stop caring about EVE and its community). I hope this meeting provides a way forward that is in the best interests of EVE, the players, and CCP. Also, I hope that the subsequent minutes are published speedily and in conjunction with dialog and dev blogs from CCP to communicate the results.
Originally by: Mena Arzi What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.
That was part of the original MT discussions with CSM5, the upshot of which was that MT should be vanity-only, and that PLEX for Remaps -- which was a plan that was floated to us, but never formally planned AFAIK -- was over the line.
Thus, no PLEX for Remaps.
Originally by: Garrance If you realize speed is a big issue - why make us all wait for a week or more by talking to CCP in ICELAND? Do it by Skype and save us all that time waiting. Otherwise it seems just a CCP delay tactic.
We do a lot of Skype chats, and have done voice conferences with CCP in the past. But honestly, they are not nearly as good as being able to look people in the eye and see them sweat when you ask them the tough questions.
That's why people fly around the world for meetings -- they are much higher bandwidth.
No doubt some CSMs will have work obligations that prevent them from attending, and will teleconference in if possible. But that is a poor substitute IMHO -- so in this respect I must disagree with my colleague Meissa.
And of course, we are not going to sit around with our thumbs up our asses for the next few days, we'll be very, very busy prepping.
Originally by: Mag's Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised.
By a staggering coincidence, this is already on our list...
Don't let us down Trebor, or the rest of the CSM for that matter. They really need to get this **** together after a week of PR failboating. They have a lot of uphill work to do before I feel like putting in the time to play a game that seems like it might explode into a thousand bits of glittery player rage, and a lot of that work will be done if the CSM gets definitive answers and promises from them (though with the tinfoil analyses in this thread it seems CCP is still having issues with keeping its word to the players/CSM, but I'll overlook that if they are forced into a promise again).
Heck you know what might be nice, have them put the promises they make to the players and the CSM up in a section of their website, and make damn sure every CCP employee knows about those promises so that if they even think about reneging on their word it will be even more painfully obvious than mass in game riots, giant spontaneous threadnought rages, and boatloads of unsubs that going back on their word is the WORST PR MOVE EVER.
Bring back my love of CCP as the greatest company ever, I'm counting on it, my favorite game hangs in the balance.
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Adira Hamalia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:49:00 -
[663]
Aurium shud be dropped and the items in the NeX store shud be sold by npc's on the market. The old style hanger view shud be an alternate view to cq and if ccp are short of cash they shud up the cost of plex/gtc/subing.
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edith prickley
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:50:00 -
[664]
On some level, I genuinely feel sorry for Zulu et al. this week, because I guess they are sincere when they say they are emotionally invested in this game and this community.
But seriously, how many new clients did they lose this week while they were sulking in a corner? The blogs have been having a field day at EVE's expense, and they didn't even put up a fight.
Based on eve-offline numbers, Incarna has to be regarded a complete failure to this point. Maybe the numbers will pick up over time.
CCP: Grow up. Sometimes your job is hard, and sometimes your job is not fun. But you still have to do the job. Or is "Fearless" just a motto when things are rolling the right way?
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Shiboline M'Ress
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:51:00 -
[665]
This is the best PR management ccp is capable of? For heaven sake, Bill Clinton had more skill in explaining how it was not technically verbal intercourse..... Sig Removed. Please keep it within the forum limits, including Eve-related. E-mail with any questions, but don't forget your sig. -ReverendM ([email protected] |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:51:00 -
[666]
CCP has already lied and stated no MT at all once to us.. You did a 180 on that.. Why believe you now... You have the track record of dishonesty and deceipt.......
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Anna Maziarczyk
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:51:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Vandrion
ego damager.
no way around it.
ego's were harmed in the making of that pic.
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Ithiria Deritan
Amarr Disciples of Night Dominion of Darkness
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:52:00 -
[668]
Alright normally I don't read all 22 pages of this. people fighting back and forth, saying good job, bad job, you didn't say this. but for once I did and I will point out one or two things, having read other players responses in other forums, words of friends in the game and of corpmates/alliance mates.
First CSM: thank you for going to bat as you were voted in to do you are the players link to CCP for when they sometimes forget they have real blood players who have feelings and desires. You do good work, when it is listened to.
Second: CCP * smacks upside head* add DEBATE to your internal newsletter topics so if it ever gets leaked again we know it is a debate not POLICY
third: People complaining about "gold ammo, what about gold ships" geeze cant please anyone can they, you don't ***ch about Gold ammo as a catch all term when you use it, but you ***ch about it when zulu used "gold ammo" as a catch all . ****ing 5 year olds
fourth: while I do support the "riot" against ccp for this if it were to happen, I do not think insulting remarks to CCP members should be used, you insult someone RL 90% of the time they dont talk to you again, and yes I know alot of people felt insulted by CCP's actions and those that truly were and were not just on the band wagon you've unsubed so your not talking to CCP anymore anyway.
fifth: How many of you did debates in high school language arts/drama/social studies? one side is assigned one topic EG: Pro-Abortion, the other side is assigned the flip of said topic EG. Anti-abortion. are you telling me because someone did something assigned to them your going to or do still hate them?
sixth: The mail from hilmar... leaked, intercepted whatever, has anyone considered FAKE, easy to type out the routing codes and encryption, and I didn't see anyone from CSM or CCP even saying yes that's his e-mail router. null |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:53:00 -
[669]
TL;DR of the dev blog.
CCP Zulu on behalf of CCP Game - we are sorry, we seriously messed up and created a pr disaster with our newsletters that were debating an issue, and ccp hillmars email.
WE WILL NOT SELL PAY TO WIN ITEMS EVER AND NEVER WILL.
However because of this PR disaster and the people leaving, we know we really really need to redeem ourselves, and are getting the CSM out here for a huge summitt, to redeem ourselves.
Please eve mail the csm with your questions, concerns and what you would like to see in EvE. We love you we love this game, and want to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the community.
CCP zulu, thanks for saying there will never be pay to win, you have reaffirmed my hope this game will forever be my mmo.
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Shemmy
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:53:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Elsamad
...
+1. Well said.
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|
Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:55:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Shemmy I feel sorry for Zulu, I'm pretty sure he's going to be "sacrificed" when this finally reaches a resolution (if not before) and my feeling is it's not his fault.
I do agree with this.
No matter how influential or how high up the food chain one is as a dev, they have bosses that have expectations.
Managment dictates the course a company takes. I can't even completely condemn Zulu for his own remarks.... as there are most definitely things he simply can not say and things he is being told to say.
I hope people that are concerned about this and voicing their opinions understand that. As a rather critical person myself, I hope that the devs realize that these are not personal attacks on them, but attacks on CCP policy and business decisions. People like Zulu i think get stuck in the middle....not fair, but that is their job.
Its a very small gray area and the detach between one and the other isn't always easy to distinguish. Especially when we know how much most of the dev team really and truely care about the game and the company. Thus the harsh remarks in the first dev blog which I can completely understand and don't even think an apology was required for.
I've played this game for 7 years, I do not think I'm being unreasonable nor do I think our fears are unfounded. It's not uncommon for a company to go from milking their cow to slaughtering for market. I've watched many companies do this, gaming and otherwise, and I think CCP is on the precipice.
It's not anything CCP has said, it's what they haven't said. And that is almost certainly intentional and strategic.
And that is why I will not resub without an extraordinary display sufficient enough to both gain my trust back and leave me confident that they are not driving down a road that changes the fundamentals of this game.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Dalton Vanadis
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:55:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Lord Khelben Thank you for your post Zulu. And as others in the CSM have already mentioned, I am sure this weekend must have been an emotionally rough one for you as well as many others at CCP watching this train-wreck unfold. While I can certainly empathize with how difficult it must have been for you, the reality is that you made your bed and now you are lying in it. You reap what you sow.
For a while now, CCP has taken for granted the fierce dedication and loyalty of EVE pilots, and you made the grievous error of assuming that our loyalties and passions were for you. You are very wrong.
Our dedication and loyalty is for the universe we co-created with you.
This universe is as much our work as it is yours. This is why we feel so passionate about it, this is why we rage when we feel that our labor of love is threatened. I am absolutely certain you can completely understand our desire to protect what we love, even as some choose to abandon it while it remains a shadow of what we remember it to be; some would rather preserve the memory of it than watch it corrupt.
You should definitely feel proud that you've co-authored something so massive, so organic, so evolving, and so unique as EVE, but all of CCP would do well to remember, especially important decision makers like Hilmar, that EVE is only ever what it is now because it is a collaboration with us, your pilots, your customers, your co-creators of New Eden as we know it. After all, isn't that what EVE is all about: "The Universe, Unscripted"? You may have created the body in which New Eden exists, but we are the cells in that body, and we are fighting to protect what you are doing to it against your own better judgement. We are, in essence, doing what we can to save EVE and CCP from itself.
Trust has been broken over the course of many poor decisions made largely in part to a "rock-star" attitude CCP leadership really needs to shed, so you'll have to forgive us if we remain skeptical. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, you've learned your lesson a little bit this time, will work toward positive change in how CCP communicates and collaborates with us, the co-authors and passionate participants of this sandbox universe you've kicked off. Just remember that this passion you've cultivated in us for EVE that has made CCP as successful as it is today can be just as destructive as it is creative when carelessly or arrogantly not taken care of.
Show the players some love and you won't be unhappy with the outcome.
^^this, couldn't have put it better myself.
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Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:56:00 -
[673]
Quote: In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
This should have been the first response. I really do hope you understand the big yellow question. This protest is NOT about $70 monocles, it is about any attempt to introduce game changing items and potentially subvert the player driven content/market that makes Eve Eve.
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Katra Novac
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:56:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
TL;DR of the dev blog.
CCP Zulu on behalf of CCP Game - we are sorry, we seriously messed up and created a pr disaster with our newsletters that were debating an issue, and ccp hillmars email.
WE WILL NOT SELL PAY TO WIN ITEMS EVER AND NEVER WILL.
However because of this PR disaster and the people leaving, we know we really really need to redeem ourselves, and are getting the CSM out here for a huge summitt, to redeem ourselves.
Please eve mail the csm with your questions, concerns and what you would like to see in EvE. We love you we love this game, and want to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the community.
CCP zulu, thanks for saying there will never be pay to win, you have reaffirmed my hope this game will forever be my mmo.
You obviously read a different dev blog, troll on.
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Casanunda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:59:00 -
[675]
Edited by: Casanunda on 26/06/2011 21:04:16 Not as insulting as the last dev blog on this matter. The apology is a step in the right direction but the elephant in the room is still there, you can't sweep an elephant under a carpet especially when it's burning as fiercely as this one.
Eve is a game populated by adults who excel in propaganda, stabbing each other in the face, metagaming, espionage, conquest and generally screwing stuff up for other people. Don't try and pull the wool over our eyes we're better at all of the above than CCP are, especially the propaganda part.
The burning question still stands "Will there be non vanity items available for AUR/GTC/PLEX/Hard cash available in the NEX/other store of your choosing that aren't already available through the player run economy?"
Non vanity being ships, ammunition, implants, skill points, weapons/weapon upgrades and anything else that may be even remotely construed as giving an ingame tactical advantage.
"Golden ammo" is too vague a term to use when trying to calm a mob wielding pitchforks, flaming torches and rainbow broadsides especially after the insulting dev blog & CCP internal documents that have come to the players attention in the last few days.
For now I can foresee the protests carrying on until the CSM meeting next week, I can also foresee the rate at which you are bleeding subscriptions not slowing down, the subscriptions you are bleeding are not just casual players they include people who have provided a lot of the content that make real life headlines and out of game tools that make Eve great.
I for one will not consider renewing my subs until this matter is clearly resolved in a fashion that clearly states an answer to the questions asked and not some corporate reacharound to stall for time whilst you get your crap together and the PR machine is rebooted.
Meanwhile, Jita and Amarr are still burning and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. As Queen Victoria once said "We are not amused" --- CCP just shat in the sandbox, so they could try and sell us a gold plated shovel to remove said turd. :( |
DRG197
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:59:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Lord Khelben Thank you for your post Zulu. And as others in the CSM have already mentioned, I am sure this weekend must have been an emotionally rough one for you as well as many others at CCP watching this train-wreck unfold. While I can certainly empathize with how difficult it must have been for you, the reality is that you made your bed and now you are lying in it. You reap what you sow.
For a while now, CCP has taken for granted the fierce dedication and loyalty of EVE pilots, and you made the grievous error of assuming that our loyalties and passions were for you. You are very wrong.
Our dedication and loyalty is for the universe we co-created with you.
This universe is as much our work as it is yours. This is why we feel so passionate about it, this is why we rage when we feel that our labor of love is threatened. I am absolutely certain you can completely understand our desire to protect what we love, even as some choose to abandon it while it remains a shadow of what we remember it to be; some would rather preserve the memory of it than watch it corrupt.
You should definitely feel proud that you've co-authored something so massive, so organic, so evolving, and so unique as EVE, but all of CCP would do well to remember, especially important decision makers like Hilmar, that EVE is only ever what it is now because it is a collaboration with us, your pilots, your customers, your co-creators of New Eden as we know it. After all, isn't that what EVE is all about: "The Universe, Unscripted"? You may have created the body in which New Eden exists, but we are the cells in that body, and we are fighting to protect what you are doing to it against your own better judgement. We are, in essence, doing what we can to save EVE and CCP from itself.
Trust has been broken over the course of many poor decisions made largely in part to a "rock-star" attitude CCP leadership really needs to shed, so you'll have to forgive us if we remain skeptical. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, you've learned your lesson a little bit this time, will work toward positive change in how CCP communicates and collaborates with us, the co-authors and passionate participants of this sandbox universe you've kicked off. Just remember that this passion you've cultivated in us for EVE that has made CCP as successful as it is today can be just as destructive as it is creative when carelessly or arrogantly not taken care of.
Show the players some love and you won't be unhappy with the outcome.
I concur with this completely. CCP you really dropped the ball this time... |
Keydn
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:00:00 -
[677]
So, anyone done the math on how many monocles CCP will have to sell through NeX to pay for the plane fare?
If CCP wants to deal with CSM on this, I can understand and support that...but CSM needs to poll the community and represent us as a group...and I want the minutes from that meeting released immediately after it is over.
It is sad we cannot trust you.
It is sad you cannot believe us.
The only solution moving forward that I can see regardless of what does and does not get implemented is complete and utter transparency on this issue, and a lot more transparency than we usually get in future developments.
Asking us for our advice and thoughts is never wrong. What could possibly gone wrong with starting a forum thread or some town-hall style web meets or fireside chats with open topics that CCP throws out and then lets us debate. "Hey, players...micro transactions in EVE...whatcha think?" Oh sure, you'd see some of the same complaints you see now...but then you could have listened, addressed them (or not) and proceeded and everyone would know where we stand.
You don't honestly think we the players are your enemies, do you? That we want you to fail? That we want developers and programmers and PR people and CEOs to loose their jobs and living? That we want EVE to vanish into the night to be remembered by few and regretted by many?
Bottom line: We want what is best for EVE, YOU want what is best for EVE. This situation should never have gotten this far out of hand, but damn it, we are here and we all need to deal with it.
|
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:01:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Katra Novac
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
TL;DR of the dev blog.
CCP Zulu on behalf of CCP Game - we are sorry, we seriously messed up and created a pr disaster with our newsletters that were debating an issue, and ccp hillmars email.
WE WILL NOT SELL PAY TO WIN ITEMS EVER AND NEVER WILL.
However because of this PR disaster and the people leaving, we know we really really need to redeem ourselves, and are getting the CSM out here for a huge summitt, to redeem ourselves.
Please eve mail the csm with your questions, concerns and what you would like to see in EvE. We love you we love this game, and want to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the community.
CCP zulu, thanks for saying there will never be pay to win, you have reaffirmed my hope this game will forever be my mmo.
You obviously read a different dev blog, troll on.
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
I dont know what that means to you, but to me that says, there will be no pay to win, there will be no game altering items.
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Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:01:00 -
[679]
Edited by: Raid''En on 26/06/2011 21:03:25
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".
I see everyone scared saying that the wording of the blog must have been well choosed, and that, so, saying "ammos" and nothing else is a proof that non-vanity items will come... and i do think it's the case ; that if CCPchoosed this word and not something more general, it's because they can't, and that we will not like at all what they are planning for MT... So, PLEASE CCP, if what Trebor is saying here is really what you wanted to say, SAY IT NOW, LOUD AND CLEAR, and not later.
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Takseen
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:02:00 -
[680]
Quote: However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
Is he referring to whoever leaked the "Fearless" document?
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Celebris Nexterra
Gallente Lowsec Static
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:03:00 -
[681]
Come on, guys, I'm just as up-in-arms as you are about the possibility of non-vanity items being sold through MT, but they just called an emergency CSM meeting (which I assume is costing THEM money to fly the CSM out there), so they obviously want to make the right move here.
Give them a break until we find out what happens with the meeting.
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:03:00 -
[682]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Katra Novac
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
TL;DR of the dev blog.
CCP Zulu on behalf of CCP Game - we are sorry, we seriously messed up and created a pr disaster with our newsletters that were debating an issue, and ccp hillmars email.
WE WILL NOT SELL PAY TO WIN ITEMS EVER AND NEVER WILL.
However because of this PR disaster and the people leaving, we know we really really need to redeem ourselves, and are getting the CSM out here for a huge summitt, to redeem ourselves.
Please eve mail the csm with your questions, concerns and what you would like to see in EvE. We love you we love this game, and want to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the community.
CCP zulu, thanks for saying there will never be pay to win, you have reaffirmed my hope this game will forever be my mmo.
You obviously read a different dev blog, troll on.
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
I dont know what that means to you, but to me that says, there will be no pay to win, there will be no game altering items.
Translation: We will never directly sell gold ammo. That's not stopping them from selling hold ammo bpcs, gold ships, gold implants, etc. Learn to read the actual sentence before you speak lest you be taken for someone who'd vote Bush another time.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:03:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Ithiria Deritan Second: CCP * smacks upside head* add DEBATE to your internal newsletter topics so if it ever gets leaked again we know it is a debate not POLICY
But why have this debate in the first place? If they already decided not to sell anything but vanity-items then why do they need to argue about the pros and cons of doing it? Is that some kind of internal debate club? Did they ran out of ideas they are still considering for implementation to discuss? Were they afraid that someone might go rogue and implement non-vanity items for sale, so they needed this "devil's advocate" to explain why they decided not to do this? What's the logic behind spending resources on an internal newsletter about something you decided not to do? And why was that topic chosen and not e.g. going IPO or closing the whole company?
If there was an internal debate about the pros and cons of resetting the whole universe back to day 1, would sit there happily and think "Oh they're just debating. They already decided not to do that so it's all cool!"
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:04:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Katra Novac
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
TL;DR of the dev blog.
CCP Zulu on behalf of CCP Game - we are sorry, we seriously messed up and created a pr disaster with our newsletters that were debating an issue, and ccp hillmars email.
WE WILL NOT SELL PAY TO WIN ITEMS EVER AND NEVER WILL.
However because of this PR disaster and the people leaving, we know we really really need to redeem ourselves, and are getting the CSM out here for a huge summitt, to redeem ourselves.
Please eve mail the csm with your questions, concerns and what you would like to see in EvE. We love you we love this game, and want to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the community.
CCP zulu, thanks for saying there will never be pay to win, you have reaffirmed my hope this game will forever be my mmo.
You obviously read a different dev blog, troll on.
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
I dont know what that means to you, but to me that says, there will be no pay to win, there will be no game altering items.
To most other people it means there was never any plans to sell golden ammo, there could be plans to sell red ammo. Anyway we already know there were plans to have non-vanity items for sale.
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Irn VanBru
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:04:00 -
[685]
read the blog, and still feel the same way i did before the blog.
too vauge and avoiding the real questions.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:06:00 -
[686]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
I dont know what that means to you, but to me that says, there will be no pay to win, there will be no game altering items.
Why leave room for interpretation when you can just as easily leave no room for interpretation?
The answer to that is the very reason people are unsubscribing. If the blog had been written by an idiot or offhand among a slew of remarks I'd not really pay it much attention.
That it is the entiretly of CCPs official statement on the subject in the face of so many questions is telling. To assume it's not intentionally vague is just not logical.
The fact they feel the need to be strategically simple in their remarks is concerning.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Jinto Aurgnet
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:07:00 -
[687]
Thank you, Zulu, for your clarification! I'm sure it is very difficult to be in the position you are in. There is obviously a lot of rage and disappointment going around. It would be hard for anyone not to get caught up in it!
I think CCP is on the right track. Please continue this channel of communication with us (the pilots).
The coming weeks will be a critical time of rebuilding for the community. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you and the folks at CCP :) .
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:08:00 -
[688]
Originally by: Erik Finnegan
Originally by: Niraia "gold ammo" is too vague, and you know it.
He used a well-established metaphor. No gold ammo means there will not be game mechanic relevant item sales on the NeX. That is part of the answer we wanted to hear.
He didn't actually say that though, you're just making that assumption in your own head. Granted that is one possible interpretation of what he said and the likely one he wanted you to make, but it's odd that after several days of people demanding a clear answer to one simple question, he goes out of his way to try to dodge the issue with another metafor. The simple fact that denouncin non-vanity MT is so hard for him to do is an indication that they are planning to move in that direction to some extent. Otherwise there would be no point in trying so hard to wiggle out of answering the question in a clear and precise manner.
We will see what come of the CSM meeting. CCP as a corporation doesn't have any trust left with me, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm going to be a bit sceptical about what they say. As the old man pointed out words are pointless at this point, only deeds matter.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:08:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:09:00 -
[690]
I have an idea.
This meeting is critically important, to establishing trust again.
Perhaps it would be good to invite some press.
Massively, EuroGamer, PC Gamer, and Kotaku.
You'll need good press to overcome the last week if you plan to and inviting them to take their own notes and make their own minds up could go a long ways.
Obviously if its a numbers thing you don't want public you could have a separate meeting for that. But I feel some sort of press coverage of the CSM and CCP meeting might help all sides feel better.
Obviously it I suppose would depend if they could arrange travel/lodging in time for such an event.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:10:00 -
[691]
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
Bottom line is that microtransactions are part of the plan and CCP aren't willing to budge on this. At best you'll get more reasonable prices and a dubious commitment not to sell any non-vanity items in the NEX.
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Baillif
AQUILA INC
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:10:00 -
[692]
Originally by: gargars
Originally by: Sophie Vherokior
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions.
THIS. No rosy blogs or delay-tactic meetings with the CSM will negate this.
QFT. The biggest concern I have is CCP itself. There seems to be a cancer eating it from within. Between
1. The leaked emails and internal communications showing their horrible internal messaging
2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
3. The obvious gaping rift that has formed between CCP and reality (as well as their customer base).
4. The recent drop in quality and quantity of expansion.
5. The horrible business decisions made with WoD and Dust 514 that I don't think anyone expects to see succeed.
6. The dissatisfaction of CCP's own employees.
7. The broken promises.
8. The laughable launch of Incarna as a feature that is an obvious launching pad to MT, and serves little to no other in game purpose.
9. The disregard and utter contempt for the Eve player base expressed by their own CEO.
10. The laughably stupid decisions being made (such as martyring players) which illustrate just how dysfunctional the company has become.
This has all the makings of a gigantic failscade. For a company called Crowd Control Productions you guys sure aren't doing a very good job.
Wake up call. Your game isn't that great. What makes it great is the player base and the community, and you've damaged it and ****ed it off.
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Xzan
The Reformed Bondage Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:11:00 -
[693]
Apologising is humble and good, calling the CSM in is good, releasing a semi-response to specific issues with comments riddle with ambiguity....fearless.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:11:00 -
[694]
no to mt that give and in game advantage make CQ optional. thsi is very important CSM do not forget this
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:11:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Jinto Aurgnet Thank you, Zulu, for your clarification! I'm sure it is very difficult to be in the position you are in. There is obviously a lot of rage and disappointment going around. It would be hard for anyone not to get caught up in it!
I think CCP is on the right track. Please continue this channel of communication with us (the pilots).
The coming weeks will be a critical time of rebuilding for the community. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you and the folks at CCP :) .
What clarification? It was PR bull****.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:12:00 -
[696]
Originally by: Baillif 2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
Oh the forums will upgrade in a reasonable timeframe to flush all this into the archives and start over clean in the new forums where there is no threadnaught about this - or anything else.
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Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:13:00 -
[697]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 26/06/2011 21:15:45 Edited by: Solomon XI on 26/06/2011 21:14:48 This is a step in the right direction. Hopefully after your CSM meeting, you can give us a better view into your plans. Please listen to the CSM as they represent us and our concerns.
CCP Zulu - I know we've been rough on you guys over the last few days. I won't apologize for it but I will say that you guys did us right today with this blog. Thank you so very much.
PS - Pass on to CCP Pann that we're keeping her in our prayers!
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:14:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Celebris Nexterra Come on, guys, I'm just as up-in-arms as you are about the possibility of non-vanity items being sold through MT, but they just called an emergency CSM meeting (which I assume is costing THEM money to fly the CSM out there), so they obviously want to make the right move here.
Give them a break until we find out what happens with the meeting.
The same CSM that told them not to do this in the first place they they completely ignored for a year and a half. Whom ZULU **** all over when he ignored them when he posted the first dev blog.
Yeah that will get some results. I wont wait around for it.
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:15:00 -
[699]
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Baillif 2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
Oh the forums will upgrade in a reasonable timeframe to flush all this into the archives and start over clean in the new forums where there is no threadnaught about this - or anything else.
Right, cause in the new forums we will have a Jovian Threadship.
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:15:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
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Alexandra Alt
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:17:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Baillif
Originally by: gargars
Originally by: Sophie Vherokior
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions.
THIS. No rosy blogs or delay-tactic meetings with the CSM will negate this.
QFT. The biggest concern I have is CCP itself. There seems to be a cancer eating it from within. Between
1. The leaked emails and internal communications showing their horrible internal messaging
2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
3. The obvious gaping rift that has formed between CCP and reality (as well as their customer base).
4. The recent drop in quality and quantity of expansion.
5. The horrible business decisions made with WoD and Dust 514 that I don't think anyone expects to see succeed.
6. The dissatisfaction of CCP's own employees.
7. The broken promises.
8. The laughable launch of Incarna as a feature that is an obvious launching pad to MT, and serves little to no other in game purpose.
9. The disregard and utter contempt for the Eve player base expressed by their own CEO.
10. The laughably stupid decisions being made (such as martyring players) which illustrate just how dysfunctional the company has become.
This has all the makings of a gigantic failscade. For a company called Crowd Control Productions you guys sure aren't doing a very good job.
Wake up call. Your game isn't that great. What makes it great is the player base and the community, and you've damaged it and ****ed it off.
Found myself searching for the 'Like' Button!!
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Kazturkey
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:17:00 -
[702]
I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
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Akira Samposeppa
Gallente Arthashastra
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:17:00 -
[703]
Originally by: Lord Khelben Thank you for your post Zulu. And as others in the CSM have already mentioned, I am sure this weekend must have been an emotionally rough one for you as well as many others at CCP watching this train-wreck unfold. While I can certainly empathize with how difficult it must have been for you, the reality is that you made your bed and now you are lying in it. You reap what you sow.
For a while now, CCP has taken for granted the fierce dedication and loyalty of EVE pilots, and you made the grievous error of assuming that our loyalties and passions were for you. You are very wrong.
Our dedication and loyalty is for the universe we co-created with you.
This universe is as much our work as it is yours. This is why we feel so passionate about it, this is why we rage when we feel that our labor of love is threatened. I am absolutely certain you can completely understand our desire to protect what we love, even as some choose to abandon it while it remains a shadow of what we remember it to be; some would rather preserve the memory of it than watch it corrupt.
You should definitely feel proud that you've co-authored something so massive, so organic, so evolving, and so unique as EVE, but all of CCP would do well to remember, especially important decision makers like Hilmar, that EVE is only ever what it is now because it is a collaboration with us, your pilots, your customers, your co-creators of New Eden as we know it. After all, isn't that what EVE is all about: "The Universe, Unscripted"? You may have created the body in which New Eden exists, but we are the cells in that body, and we are fighting to protect what you are doing to it against your own better judgement. We are, in essence, doing what we can to save EVE and CCP from itself.
Trust has been broken over the course of many poor decisions made largely in part to a "rock-star" attitude CCP leadership really needs to shed, so you'll have to forgive us if we remain skeptical. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, you've learned your lesson a little bit this time, will work toward positive change in how CCP communicates and collaborates with us, the co-authors and passionate participants of this sandbox universe you've kicked off. Just remember that this passion you've cultivated in us for EVE that has made CCP as successful as it is today can be just as destructive as it is creative when carelessly or arrogantly not taken care of.
Show the players some love and you won't be unhappy with the outcome.
Creation is so precious and greed so destructive.
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Arya Greywolf
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:18:00 -
[704]
Welp, unfortunately this still does not answer the main question/concern we have -directly-. They are still tip-toeing around the issue. CSMs, PLEASE, PLEASE make these our two core issues!
Additionally, they did not even ADDRESS the second big issue that players are peeved about - getting the old hanger view back.
So, it remains:
1) Are you going to EVER go beyond non vanity items with aurum?
2) Are we going to get the old hanger view back with the *permanent* option to "disembark" via station button?
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Ozlyn
Minmatar AP Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:20:00 -
[705]
Originally by: Algathas I will keep my accounts unsubbed while I wait for a real answer.
This
But I will be optimistic about it.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:20:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Kazturkey I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
+1
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Maa Ku
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:21:00 -
[707]
Edited by: Maa Ku on 26/06/2011 21:23:27 Better than the Friday blog. Still sounds like you're telling everyone it's not a problem. It is a problem.
You must understand that the reason why a lot of players play this game is the really open system, both in game and as a company, you have created. EVE is not a cash cow and if you try to turn it into one in this manner you risk losing the players who enjoy the game as it is.
Edit: Also we really need that hanger view back :)
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Havegun Willtravel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:21:00 -
[708]
reserved back in 10
For the moment, close but not quite.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:21:00 -
[709]
This forum really needs to lose the font size formatting options.
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Komen
Gallente The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:21:00 -
[710]
Originally by: Akira Samposeppa
Originally by: Lord Khelben Thank you for your post Zulu. And as others in the CSM have already mentioned, I am sure this weekend must have been an emotionally rough one for you as well as many others at CCP watching this train-wreck unfold. While I can certainly empathize with how difficult it must have been for you, the reality is that you made your bed and now you are lying in it. You reap what you sow.
For a while now, CCP has taken for granted the fierce dedication and loyalty of EVE pilots, and you made the grievous error of assuming that our loyalties and passions were for you. You are very wrong.
Our dedication and loyalty is for the universe we co-created with you.
This universe is as much our work as it is yours. This is why we feel so passionate about it, this is why we rage when we feel that our labor of love is threatened. I am absolutely certain you can completely understand our desire to protect what we love, even as some choose to abandon it while it remains a shadow of what we remember it to be; some would rather preserve the memory of it than watch it corrupt.
You should definitely feel proud that you've co-authored something so massive, so organic, so evolving, and so unique as EVE, but all of CCP would do well to remember, especially important decision makers like Hilmar, that EVE is only ever what it is now because it is a collaboration with us, your pilots, your customers, your co-creators of New Eden as we know it. After all, isn't that what EVE is all about: "The Universe, Unscripted"? You may have created the body in which New Eden exists, but we are the cells in that body, and we are fighting to protect what you are doing to it against your own better judgement. We are, in essence, doing what we can to save EVE and CCP from itself.
Trust has been broken over the course of many poor decisions made largely in part to a "rock-star" attitude CCP leadership really needs to shed, so you'll have to forgive us if we remain skeptical. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, you've learned your lesson a little bit this time, will work toward positive change in how CCP communicates and collaborates with us, the co-authors and passionate participants of this sandbox universe you've kicked off. Just remember that this passion you've cultivated in us for EVE that has made CCP as successful as it is today can be just as destructive as it is creative when carelessly or arrogantly not taken care of.
Show the players some love and you won't be unhappy with the outcome.
Creation is so precious and greed so destructive.
Says it perfectly.
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Kuhn Arashi
Caldari Wrecking Shots Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:23:00 -
[711]
Here CCP, I'll lend you a Hand.
________________________________________ Fanfest 2011 contest fit: Caracal Please vote/comment, thanks |
LordElfa
Gallente Golden Lyon Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:23:00 -
[712]
I'm encouraged but not relaxed.
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Camall Trady
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:24:00 -
[713]
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Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:24:00 -
[714]
What you do, not what you say. -----
Originally by: Gierling Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:24:00 -
[715]
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
Now, here is a quote from the newsletter. Note that this quote is from page 9 after the comments by the 2 Devs. The title for the article is ---EVE: Delivering the goods: virtual sales in Incarna
Read the page..... It is not their to foster debate. It is a statement of fact for what CCP has planned.
"CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?"
"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
"One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings."
"So we might sell tiny things or batches of consumable goods for just a few ômicro- PLEX,ö but we would have the option to sell premium content and services at a much higher price point."
"Thus, we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna environment, nor build that environment around such sales; rather, we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVE experience."
Sure sounds like they have plans for it to me!
Zulu's latest blog is BS.
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Harris
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:25:00 -
[716]
To the CSM going to represent our views, please just remember one thing if anything.
Just promise you won't go in all emo like 95% of the forum posts have been. Stay your ground as you've said you will, get answers and explain your position well as you must... but please behave maturely and professionally or they'll just assume you're all emo and ignore what you say anyway.
No one wants to deal with a kid having a tantrum and frankly I'm having a little sympathy with CCP at the moment at the over reaction in some quarters about this all, spinning myths and rumours as if they're fact when they've been countered already and knee-jerk reacting to chinese whispers.
I know a few questions need to be answered still so good luck on getting those but please, mature and professional to the end, yeah?
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KrustyKrab
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:26:00 -
[717]
This is only my personal opinion.
So after a few days of deafening silence, we get yet another placating, time-wasting, stalling tactic via a devblog. As others have pointed out, you have clarified NOTHING. Gold Ammo could be your little code for...whatever you want, so you can come back later and say 'well we never said ships or skillpoint enhancements, we said 'no gold ammo' so why is everyone upset again???'
I mean, we don't really know. Yet another horrible, vague, still seemingly smug reply to a community who has erupted into a nuclear fireball of fury is all I see. You didn't answer the BIG YELLOW QUESTION. You may think you have, but you smartly skirted the details leaving everyone hanging again. Again! I don't know who is mixing up the Cherry Stupid-Aid, but maybe a little more sure, and a little less stupid would make the drink a little less bitter as it slides down our throats.
At this point, I simply cannot respond to you (CCP) with anything but your own words: We are more interested in what you do than in what you say. So far you have done nothing except fan the flames even more.
I've taken a few days off from even logging into Eve. Seven accounts are unsubbed and/or idle waiting for the remaining play time to finish on them. A lot of others have unsubbed but they've missed the point and when we see 40,000+ active players, it simply proves, unfortunately, that CCP is correct in their observations over the years: Eve's player base is full of hot air and even flames, but it is a cold, non-burning flame. By logging in continually even after cancelling a subscription, it is merely a prelude to the reality that you, CCP, will continue to shoe-horn changes that the community absolutely is opposed to because you KNOW for a fact that thousands will threaten to quit, even thousands will go into the account mgmt page and cancel their subs, but soon enough they will click 'subscribe again' or add PLEX gametime to their accounts and pretend that their rear ends are only a little sore and a little bloody, instead of being a gaping wound. And we Eve players? We'll say things like "well, it only bled a little, and the pain is manageable if you sit on a donut cushion a while."
I was sad to see that nothing has changed other than hundreds, possibly a thousand or more of us decided to not login and go play Perpetuum or WoT or whatever else. But the login numbers on TQ didn't seem to change one iota, which tells everyone with a stake in this matter that you, CCP, are correct in your observations, and that we are just a bunch of puffy-chested liars who will scuttle back under your wing in the end. I think mostly this is because Eve takes forever and a day to really get anywhere, and after ~8 years or so, most of us simply have too much invested in the game to actually give more than token voice to the protests.
Ten thousand replies! A million views! On a single thread at that, not counting the disastrously smarmy devblog, the smaller wildfires that have jumped firelines/firebreaks. And yet, it still wasn't/isn't enough. Again because we players are nothing more than hollow schlubs who are too addicted to your crack after being strung out for years. I mean, what player that has spend the 75bil or so for a Titan and the skills to fly it would want to really give it up? Which alliance after fighting endless battles and serious metagaming is ready to give up their gold farm out in nullsec? I myself have billions upon billions in assets in Eve, and I'll admit the going is extremely rough right now. Today my alliance and friends went on a pretty huge roam, and the kb shows some good kills, kills that I normally am on, and yeah it sucks. It feels like I'm the only who is really adamant about not participating until real questions are answered.
But I am pretty sure the major question is not going to be resolved. You didn't answer the BIG YELLOW QUESTION yet. Gold ammo means nothing. Your words mean nothing.
ACTIONS.
We'll see... Stuff goes here |
Korbin Dallaz
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:26:00 -
[718]
Since you guys seem to have lost touch with what eve is let me remind you here. Eve is all about the player driven economy. That used to be you biggest selling point and what you marketed the most. It is a huge part of why many of us played this game.
If you wanted to introduce so called vanity items into the game in a manner keeping true to Eve you would have made clothing design a new profession. Created new skills around it. Come up with an interface which allowed creative players to make some really cool stuff. This could be worked into PI and when we can actually walk in stations people could open store fronts. You could have gone in a really cool direction with this that would enrich the Eve experience and not cheapen it. Since clothing gets destroyed when you get podded this could also be another of the isk sinks that you are looking for.
BTW since clothes get destroyed when you get podded, as I have read that they do, no one is even mentioning a pretty basic change in the game. Now that you can see someone wearing a monacle in their picture and know that they spent $70 on it that adds a whole aspect to the podding mechanics that I have not heard mentioned yet.
As far as calling a CSM meeting in the near future why should that mean anything to anyone. The CSM is strictly a PR tool. You do not listen to them. You do not keep your promises to them. There is what in my opinion a troublingly high number of ex-CSM members that largely left the game after their term likely due to the disgust created in dealing with you guys. I doubt many people in this game believe anything of use will come of the CSM meeting other than more propaganda and dog and pony show. If you have not listened to them in the past why should we believe that you will now ?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:26:00 -
[719]
I concure with this blog.
nuf said. .End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:26:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Kazturkey I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
nieve pushovers
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:27:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Harris To the CSM going to represent our views, please just remember one thing if anything.
Just promise you won't go in all emo like 95% of the forum posts have been. Stay your ground as you've said you will, get answers and explain your position well as you must... but please behave maturely and professionally or they'll just assume you're all emo and ignore what you say anyway.
No one wants to deal with a kid having a tantrum and frankly I'm having a little sympathy with CCP at the moment at the over reaction in some quarters about this all, spinning myths and rumours as if they're fact when they've been countered already and knee-jerk reacting to chinese whispers.
I know a few questions need to be answered still so good luck on getting those but please, mature and professional to the end, yeah?
/sarcasm I am goth you emo poser so back off /sarcasm
But yeah, keep it cool and don't let up, MT non-vanity= death.
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Kazturkey
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:27:00 -
[722]
Originally by: Maa Ku Edited by: Maa Ku on 26/06/2011 21:23:27 Better than the Friday blog. Still sounds like you're telling everyone it's not a problem. It is a problem.
You must understand that the reason why a lot of players play this game is the really open system, both in game and as a company, you have created. EVE is not a cash cow and if you try to turn it into one in this manner you risk losing the players who enjoy the game as it is.
Edit: Also we really need that hanger view back :)
If they didn't think it was a problem they would not be bringing the CSM to Iceland. They're serious here, and we should give them the benefit of the doubt. |
Baillif
AQUILA INC
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:28:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Vandrion "However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
Now, here is a quote from the newsletter. Note that this quote is from page 9 after the comments by the 2 Devs. The title for the article is ---EVE: Delivering the goods: virtual sales in Incarna
Read the page..... It is not their to foster debate. It is a statement of fact for what CCP has planned.
"CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?"
"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
"One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings."
"So we might sell tiny things or batches of consumable goods for just a few ômicro- PLEX,ö but we would have the option to sell premium content and services at a much higher price point."
"Thus, we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna environment, nor build that environment around such sales; rather, we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVE experience."
Sure sounds like they have plans for it to me!
Zulu's latest blog is BS.
Zulu is part of the problem.
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Saska Samar
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:28:00 -
[724]
As a moron once said:
"this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say"
Therefore:
"this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say"
Because liars lie. My accounts are paid till August so convince me why I should resub to pay for Dust and WoD.
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:28:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
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Maa Ku
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:30:00 -
[726]
Zulu, please don't take all this personally. I know it probably is not a great week for you.
We are only rising against the changes because we want the game to be good. It's because we care about the game not because anyone enjoys being this way just because.
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Sheila Sarani
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:30:00 -
[727]
Originally by: Korbin Dallaz BTW since clothes get destroyed when you get podded, as I have read that they do, no one is even mentioning a pretty basic change in the game. Now that you can see someone wearing a monacle in their picture and know that they spent $70 on it that adds a whole aspect to the podding mechanics that I have not heard mentioned yet.
No they do NOT being destroyed, it was in first draft before they put such pricetag on them, they arent destroyed now and this makes me fear the non vanity items will also be indestructible (you get reissued new one same as your noob ship after death). |
Inca Jones
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:32:00 -
[728]
Quote: If they didn't think it was a problem they would not be bringing the CSM to Iceland. They're serious here, and we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with this. Thanks for the blog.
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Kimbli d'Rohan
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:32:00 -
[729]
This is a step in the right direction. I have unsubscribed but my sub will still be active until late August; time enough to see the outcome of the meeting with CSM. If EVE is moving towards pay-to-win I'll stay cancelled. Vanity items (even crazily priced ones) I can live with; if that's all that is planned I will resubscribe - I don't have to buy them, and won't at current prices.
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Lord Cath
Amarr Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:33:00 -
[730]
Here is me living on hope... my resubbing depends on the outcome. Don't know what to epxect realy. Still, I give them a chance, since CCP used to do things the right way. _________________________________________________
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Turkatron
United Mining And Distribution
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:33:00 -
[731]
CCP, the bridge has already been burned.
Originally by: CCP Zulu I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
Strengthen? I don't think so. There is no trust at this point at all. And there won't be again till you take tangible actions. Talk is cheap.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
By all accounts CSM have already done this and you chose to disrespect them by releasing the first "dev blog" and not addressing our concerns. If I were on CSM I'd send a big ****you and not bother going to the meeting. It's clear you see CSM as a way to fool us into thinking you give a **** when you really don't.
Originally by: CCP Zulu The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE.
At this point how can anyone trust CCP if they plan to "evolve" "virtual goods and services". Wait services also? Anyway, this is a subscription game, if it continues to extend past that there will be no trust because you, CCP, have already set the ball in motion.
Originally by: CCP Zulu However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Stop with this bull****. No one is buying it. The newsletter has very clear intent. Yes there is a section where employees debate the topic, however, the rest of the newsletter has a tone that says... this is not a debate, we are doing this, get used to it. In addition, all the rebuttals to outrage over this have had the same exact tone and very similar wording as the newsletter. You can't rationalize to the players in the same way as the newsletter rationalizes to the CCP employees why MT is a good thing if you expect us to believe that was nothing but a debate.
Let me quote your FEARLESS leader Hilmar.
Originally by: Hilmar I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say.
Lastly, I think this sums things up nicely.
Original Size
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Kelvandar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:34:00 -
[732]
"due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days..." What happened there? Is this somehow related to the SOE rumors that were floating around earlier today? Did Hilmar try to sell you out?
No personal offense intended, Zulu. You've no doubt been told what to write by a number of people at CCP. But this blog sounds more like it was written for the benefit of PR with the industry in general and/or your venture capitalists. Particularly with the token "lets fly the CSM out here" part.
As far as the "Fearless" comment goes, if something is definitely not on the table, then it is definitely not up for debate in a quasi-public forum like a corporate newsletter.
Regardless of the outcome of your meetings, it is still up to us, the players, that decide if we continue with our subscriptions or not. Many of us are more interested in what you do now than how you spin the PR. And no corporate statements no matter how skillfully worded will ever outweigh what appears in the cash shop down the road.
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ScreenWipe
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:35:00 -
[733]
I still want to purchase SP with Aurum's - i will raise my concerns with the csm's!
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mobius nm
Minmatar Imperativa
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:35:00 -
[734]
Ah, another timekill. As expected CCP, you deliver to our lowest expectations.
What you explicitly DON'T say speaks volumes about what you intend to force upon us.
Those that have any political savvy at all will not be redirected or placated.
I honestly didn't think it was possible for your impressions of your player community to be so divorced from reality. Clearly, there is a logical disconnect between making a challenging, hard, cerebral game and subsequently assuming it will be populated at the most core levels by gullible, impressionable, spendfree dolts.
The game you built is singularly uninviting to the sort of player population you require to support a pay to win scheme. Get over yourselves, realize this fact, apologize, and lets move the **** on.
I want the dev team and mentality from 2006 back please and thanks.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 -
[735]
I for one thank you for this devblog. It stands in contrast to what I saw as ignorance and arrogance in the first one.
Of course I must say I am not "appeased" in the real sense of the word. The "Fearless" newsletter was shocking, but it was soon clear that it was probably a discussion "exercise" inside CCP.
But another thing "out of context" was the leaked letter of Hilmar, which fueled the flames anew of course and was more a reason to be irritated for me. I hope your meeting with the CSM will shed a light on the matters. Even if I am of the opinion that the CSM is a toothless lion it will be and is, for a matter of fact, far more productive to discuss serious matters in a limited group of people instead of a whole community
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Manos Heimenbarger
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 -
[736]
I am very bothered by the use of a certain word in this devblog that a lot of people don't seem to be picking up on. He said no "plans". No plans for "gold ammo". Wasn't it a year ago they were saying no plans for microtrading at all? Saying there are no plans is not putting this in uncertain terms, and we NEED uncertain terms regarding this.
CSM, when you guys go up there, PLEASE get them to be completely clear on this.
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Baillif
AQUILA INC
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 -
[737]
The common lie you'll see spouted from CCP is that they can take the increased MT revenues and make additional features for all players.
The reality is that they will use increased MT revenues to make additional pay to play features because that's where the money is. In the same sense that there is more research in pharmaceuticals to make treatments than to find cures. The treatment is where the money is.
Once they leave the subscription model for the MT model there is no going back. People are worried about the slippery slope because it is a very real and legitimate threat.
The refusal of CCP to give us a straight answer on non vanity MT items is because they have already made up their minds, and they know we won't like their answer. Your player base isn't stupid CCP. We know what you are doing.
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Aussie ALF
One Gear Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:37:00 -
[738]
Things that got on my nerve were the editors "opening"
Quote: However, as a subscription based golden goose, EVE needs to incorporate the virtual goods sales model to allow for further revenue û revenue to fund our other titles, revenue for its developer: you.
Also this "Yes" thought on Are virtual goods sales in EVE a good thing:
Quote: IÆll give you an example of something I think provides value to our customer, which IÆd like to sell. Right now, you can store 50 personal fittings on our servers. ThatÆs more than enough for the average EVE player, but for a subset of our users, itÆs too small a number. Why not be able to add more storage space for a small amount of money? YouÆd even be able to upgrade it multiple times if you needed and permanently add this benefit to your character, making it even more valuable.
So CCP broke the fittings by making them server based so we were forced to restrictive 50 fittings, now the idea is maybe we should let them have more, but pay for it.
Like hell I already pay you enough every month.
EvE has been boring the **** out of me recently, Walking in Stations is not going to make me stay, in fact, the opposite. I chose EvE over WoW because WoW with the walking about with their characters just looked stupid. I like SciFi, so EvE was a better fit.
I like most when Incarna came out, considered purchasing some AURUM just for ****s and giggles, but when I saw the prices I almost quit on the spot.
This golden goose is getting sat on by a 400pound sumo and I can tell you now, add any more weight to it and the goose will die.
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:37:00 -
[739]
Quote: "just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum"
That doesn't prove anything. You've left out the key and most important point: What about in the future? What about tomorrow's plans? And why do you have to be so specific? Ok, no "gold ammo" for arum. What about SP and ships? For ISK or real currency?
The fact that now you've twice deliberately avoided addressing the singular most important issue, while acting as if you have, really doesn't reassure anyone concerned about this.
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Seline Okaski
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:39:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Seline Okaski As to the CSM visit, I am not sure how to take this. Asking our representatives, the very same ones that you have disregarded, ignored and failed to inform/consult in the past to break away from real life commitments with under a weeks notice seems to be a last ditch effort to divert our attention.
When the batphone rings, you pick it up.
That said, if this meeting turns out to be a farce, we will let you know in no uncertain terms. If I am forced to endure those $^& IcelandAir seats for no good reason, there will be hell to pay.
With regard to speed of reporting, I will try and get reports out every day detailing general progress, and we will try and get a full report out ASAP. We know this is time-sensitive.
Originally by: Saving Face In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.
Numerous CCP folks at different levels have told me that Fearless is deliberately provocative, and is not official company policy. Of course, I have not seen any other issues, so I can't say for sure. Perhaps someone should leak some copies to me...
And that is the one thing I cannot quite let go of ... yet. (I am working on it ) It may have been a "deliberately provocative" document, but what the one section outright states: "CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?" This is difficult to take it as simply an opinion piece.
I will try to evaluate my thoughts on this and see what comes from the CMS meetings. I wish I could say that I will be able to believe in CCP again, but that will be a hard road to walk down.
Good luck in Iceland and thanks for the representation, Trebor and fellow CSM members. A lot of people are putting their hopes (and continued Eve gaming) on you.
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Esceem
Gallente Baby Seal Clubbing Appreciation Society Bed Bath and Beyond
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:39:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
This.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:39:00 -
[742]
I think its funny that they use Gordon Gekko and his slogan in that newsletter. The greedy Gordon gets betrayed by his underling and goes to jail for insider trading. While the more "honest" stockbrokers who stick to the rules get along just fine.
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Kynder Furlow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:40:00 -
[743]
Well, I think we all need to cool down for a few days.. Let the CSM meet CCP and see what comes out of the discussion.
For all your flapping you guys are doing, it's not helping a great deal and is only causing disruption.
Calm.
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:40:00 -
[744]
Btw...why is the blog called "The realities of eve"...?
What are the realities of eve?
CCP has no money so they MUST introduce MT ? First there will be vanity items but if they dont do the trick non-vanity ones will be introduced as well ? CCP doesnt communicate with their customers as they should ? Aurum store is sickeningly expensive ? Incarna captains quarters have sub par performance on most configurations ? There is no other way than getting in your CQ when you dock, you could have the CQ (no matter how lousy performance it has) or there is the door...period ? No matter how the players protest and leave for all that stuff there is simply no other way ?
If not that ones...which are "the realities of eve" than ?
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Larik Olen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:40:00 -
[745]
Edited by: Larik Olen on 26/06/2011 21:41:45
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
This. ^^
Also way to avoid the question again. 'Gold Ammo' pacifies the crowd while still avoiding the larger questions of microtransactions for in game advantage.
Until this is explicitly answered, and PROPERLY, people will continue to unsub.
Oh, and this time - listen to the CSM. Really listen. If you don't, you're just jerking them, and us around.
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Tarinara
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:41:00 -
[746]
Nice of CCPZulu to step up into the fire and make a statement. Kudos. I don't put a lot of faith in any statements out of CCP right now, but that's just me.
And as for alluding to no 'Golden Ammo': ya know... sadly we can all see the handwriting on the wall of the direction CCP is going ( or at least I can ). And they've already sold at least 60 'sparkle monocles' last I heard, so the dam is already leaking, CCP has it's prove of concept and we all should start learning to swim in the new Pay 2 Win New Eden.
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SamGromoff
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:42:00 -
[747]
Edited by: SamGromoff on 26/06/2011 21:43:38 Edited by: SamGromoff on 26/06/2011 21:42:32
Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Quote: [5:29:36 PM] Two Step: that isn't gonna help [5:29:43 PM] Two Step: and can you please answer my question?
[5:29:51 PM] Two Step: 1) Is CCP planning on selling non-vanity MT [5:30:53 PM] CCP Zulu: CCP plans on evolving its offering of virtual goods based on player demand
Very careful non-denial spotted
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:42:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Chribba I hope that there will be good results from those meetings.
The CSM should get a chance to talk to the investors/owners, too.
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St'oto
Elite Predators
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:43:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.
My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.
You can read my post.
Some want MT in all its glory. Your all scared your RMT operations and bot alliances will suffer with MT.
CSM are just another vanity item, voted for by lemmings.
Yea you want it in all it's glory so you can pay to get a head. That's the only reason.
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Idle Bow
Gallente Genesis Claymores
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:44:00 -
[750]
Originally by: RougeOperator We should email SONY online entertainment and ask them what they think about their current partner. And how they are now associated with a Second NGE type company.
Notice how they avoided the question of NON VANITY items by talking about GOLD AMMO.
Knowing SONY I wouldn't count on that at all. SONY is dictating conditions for those who want to publish games for their console, and those conditions are quite draconian (deadlines are part of those conditions, like with every publisher with lots $$$, but screwing unique games. Better screw but not miss deadline, business is business, boys.). In the same way they act with players. SONY = $$$, not passion, creativity, uniqueness, etc. And I have strong feeling that recent "bravery" of Hilmar was fueled during the last E3. That could be:
a) encouragement and advice how to make "real bux" in cold minded and cynical entertainment business. If we compare gaming industry with movie/tv show industry, SONY is producer of cheap products for mass consumption. Lots of cheap crap, copied in thousands and some cases millions of copies.. "Hey Hilmar, are we doing REAL business or just playing it?" thats how it could sound from "Trumps" at SONY. But thats some sort of "good" scenario, where things can be managed more easy.
b) If I remember correctly presentations of CCP's CTO, SONY had invested time (at least time) in DUST 514. They even invited CCP in E3 on SONY's stage. It was quite surprising, as not very typical. Usually they will force you to undress if you want to do something with them. That shows their believe and interest in DUST 514. As things became public, I believe CCP had got more constraints to deal with. Deadlines can be part of that. CCP had invested LOTS money into DUST and imagine what happens when platform provider starts to put it's conditions in current phase of project. I think one of results of this can be declaration of DUST as exclusive to PS (earlier XBOX was in the list), and declaration of exclusiveness had put CCP even in more weak position, so deadlines become damn important and title looses its independence. If you are in trouble with deadlines and do not have capacity to boost work, you need to make fund-rising. That may lead to "real business" in eve. That could also lead to sales of company shares. CCP_Fallout had twitted that deal with SOE isn't being discussed. But usually until the deal is signed, all talks are being kept secret (from employees also). Especially if that is about significant amounts of shares.
It is possible that CCP is in damn bad situation because of SONY and no more independent de facto. And SONY on top of CCP could be the worst news for Eve..
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Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:44:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
...+1 |
R2 D3
The Executives Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:45:00 -
[752]
Good blog, time to get back to business
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roq deelim
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:45:00 -
[753]
Edited by: roq deelim on 26/06/2011 21:46:42
Quote: Historically, CCP redaction of CSM summit minutes reports has been minor, except in some cases where effectively entire meetings had to be off the record (such as DUST/EVE strategy in the May Summit -- minutes out soon I hope, btw). For example, in the current May minutes draft, the edits are almost non-existent, mostly removal of exact numbers.
well..thats also a point that matters..more infos about about eve/dust link is exactly such a thing that could appera out of the blue one days. it WILL influence eve, it will affect us. so it is interessting to be discusses without numerous speculations.
second: i like exact numbers. wordings like "lots of","many", "nearly none" i.e. are usless rable-rable.
ps for the meeting: 1. no nda cr*p on this one. 2. provide at least some little amount of live coverage 3. ask tough questions 4. STILL no minutes
|
Onsa Boo
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:46:00 -
[754]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
God dam. Still not convinced CCP don't want a piece of this.
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Dex Atherton
Minmatar Individual Retirement Accounts
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:46:00 -
[755]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
I don't think this has been quoted enough yet.
|
Baillif
AQUILA INC
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:51:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Velocity Prime Thanks to the new Arum stuff, CCP now have the money to burn on emergency "oh ****" plane tickets for the CSM.
How many plane tickets can I get with 52 monocles?
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Maul555
Amarr Reliables Inc BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:51:00 -
[757]
I see that CCP guys are reading this and would like to post 1 more time here... I don't like being mad at CCP and I am glad that you guys finally where able to come out with a coherent and good post, even if it did take you 3 tries. Lets move on and get this train back on track now... I <3 you guys and I complain because I care.
The EVE Personality Test
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Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:53:00 -
[758]
To quote a well known CCP guy:
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say.
|
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:53:00 -
[759]
Originally by: Nishachara
Originally by: Idle Bow
b) If I remember correctly presentations of CCP's CTO, SONY had invested time (at least time) in DUST 514. They even invited CCP in E3 on SONY's stage. It was quite surprising, as not very typical. Usually they will force you to undress if you want to do something with them. That shows their believe and interest in DUST 514. As things became public, I believe CCP had got more constraints to deal with. Deadlines can be part of that. CCP had invested LOTS money into DUST and imagine what happens when platform provider starts to put it's conditions in current phase of project. I think one of results of this can be declaration of DUST as exclusive to PS (earlier XBOX was in the list), and declaration of exclusiveness had put CCP even in more weak position, so deadlines become damn important and title looses its independence. If you are in trouble with deadlines and do not have capacity to boost work, you need to make fund-rising. That may lead to "real business" in eve. That could also lead to sales of company shares. CCP_Fallout had twitted that deal with SOE isn't being discussed. But usually until the deal is signed, all talks are being kept secret (from employees also). Especially if that is about significant amounts of shares.
It is possible that CCP is in damn bad situation because of SONY and no more independent de facto. And SONY on top of CCP could be the worst news for Eve..
Yeah maybe there is something in this... Idk how that works in a software industry, but in some branches of business if you dont meet the deadline you pay reparations...and thats bad...pretty bad. So in a way maybe sony doesnt have ccp (yet) but they have them by the balls in their grip...
They chose to get in bed with sony.
And they are punishing us as a result of a bad decision. That is not ok with me.
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Kynder Furlow
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:54:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Kazturkey I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
+1
+1
|
|
Velios
M. Corp -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:55:00 -
[761]
Just look at my beautiful 60 dollar monocle. |
Kah Niel
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:56:00 -
[762]
i would just like to ask ccp this..
why do u hate ur solid subs? i meen, is it so har for u to see ur taking eve in a direction no one likes? also, the selling of stuff better than what others can obtain or even equal to, i meen eve economy is so nice cos its mainly build on what people makes, i also think alot of people fear that skillpoint boosts in some way will get implentet.. when ccp doesent care at all that people are telling them to stop this stupid idea of selling stuff whit for aurum, i start fearing what will be its end lol, so u gonna sell skillpoints too? and say **** u to all thoes of us who been playing eve for years? thoes of us who have paid our subs, trained our chars, and enjoyed eve for a long time, to get to were we are now.. why not just sell it to some random 10 day char, for aurum? that would make u some money ccp, make u some money as well as turn u into one of thoes p2w ame that most of the eve comunity ccp zulu claims to like hate more than anything... its not like eve is the only space game, so why do we play eve instead of one of the others? cos eve is not a p2w game, i thought u were better than this ccp, and i think most of ur subs did, so thanks for ****ing us all up, and not carring im sure we all apreacite ur lag of concern
|
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:56:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Kynder Furlow
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Kazturkey I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
+1
+1
+1
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Adrian Dixon
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:58:00 -
[764]
Microtransactions will consume CCP, all thier development time will go into new vanity items only, all thier promotions will go into selling the vanity items. The game will suffer because the devs attention will be in the wrong place... Selling vanity items pusing vanity items. Every time the vanity items take a dip in sales the devs will be called into in crisis meetings and asked to dream up new ways to maker players part with thier money.
This is another reason why I would like to see the NeX store close and Microtransactions abandoned for good. No Vanity Items, No Pay to Win.
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Argus Eritaramis
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:00:00 -
[765]
Enough lawyering and wrapping words around stuff. Speak plainly.
Will there or will there not be ANY non-vanity items in the foreseeable future of eve, that will be sold through MT's ?
Until a clear answer to that is made, I see no reason to renew my subscriptions.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
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Indy Rider
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:01:00 -
[766]
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players CCP do and less of what you say."
Quote: to help us define and address the real underlying concerns,
...
Isn't it obvious?
Free anyone who was banned because of this "broken trust".
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Elrica bloodbane
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:01:00 -
[767]
Why should someone pay monthly subs AND have to pay for extra content ingame. Ships should have corp logo as standard, the players have asked for it enough times. We don't have server capacity to allow painted ships, it would create to much lag. Oh really, but we can pay for it, in the shop and its ok. What have you been doing with my subs for the last 5 years.
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Kah Niel
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:01:00 -
[768]
Edited by: Kah Niel on 26/06/2011 22:04:14 i would just like to ask ccp this..
why do u hate ur solid subs? i meen, is it so har for u to see ur taking eve in a direction no one likes? also, the selling of stuff better than what others can obtain or even equal to, i meen eve economy is so nice cos its mainly build on what people makes, i also think alot of people fear that skillpoint boosts in some way will get implentet.. when ccp doesent care at all that people are telling them to stop this stupid idea of selling stuff whit for aurum, i start fearing what will be its end lol, so u gonna sell skillpoints too? and say **** u to all thoes of us who been playing eve for years? thoes of us who have paid our subs, trained our chars, and enjoyed eve for a long time, to get to were we are now.. why not just sell it to some random 10 day char, for aurum? that would make u some money ccp, make u some money as well as turn u into one of thoes p2w ame that most of the eve comunity ccp zulu claims to like hate more than anything... its not like eve is the only space game, so why do we play eve instead of one of the others? cos eve is not a p2w game, i thought u were better than this ccp, and i think most of ur subs did, so thanks for ****ing us all up, and not carring im sure we all apreacite ur lag of concern..
also to this..
Originally by: Kynder Furlow
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Kazturkey I accept this. Bringing the CSM to Iceland really shows you're not just going into damage control, you want to fix this.
/hugs
I missed you guys <3
+1
i call damage control x2 lol, ohh no things are going wrong! lets call csm to iceland itl buy us a few days! when they get here we can then try to convince them they should speak our case and try to get people to spend tons of money on aurum! i meen ccp... u seen the logs from jita rens and everywere els, i do belive alot of people have been spaming something close to "NO MT IN EVE" is it realy that hard to missunderstand?
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noldevin
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:02:00 -
[769]
This is exactly what should have been done in the first place. Though, I do understand the feelings behind the first dev blog, there probably should have been someone acting as a check and balance to see that it shouldn't have been released as an official response.
The most important thing is that CCP fully take heed of everything the CSM brings to the table. I suppose the meetings will be our moment of truth.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:06:00 -
[770]
Pretty ****ing unsubstantial, but I was hardly expecting CCP to **** doves out their ass.
You've bought yourselves about a week. The end result had better be pretty ****ing fancy. _____ This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change. |
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Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:06:00 -
[771]
Thank you for talking to us.
We all want CCP to profitt and succeed as much as you do. We want you to make loads of money because it lets us fly our internet spaceships around. Work with us, your players, and we will make you rich, but not at the expense of the game we love. As soon as you give us a solid assurance that micro-transactions will never be more than vanity items, I'll even buy one of your bloody monacles. If you can't give us that assurance, then I will sadly wander off to find something else to spend my dollars on.
Regards,
T A
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BeauChaotica
Odin's Ravens
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:11:00 -
[772]
Edited by: BeauChaotica on 26/06/2011 22:13:42
Originally by: Elrica bloodbane Why should someone pay monthly subs AND have to pay for extra content ingame. Ships should have corp logo as standard, the players have asked for it enough times. We don't have server capacity to allow painted ships, it would create to much lag. Oh really, but we can pay for it, in the shop and its ok. What have you been doing with my subs for the last 5 years.
+1
Concise, to the point...people are already beginning to vote with their feet. I just hope to god CCP aren't actually what they currently appear to be.
Originally by: Baillif
QFT. The biggest concern I have is CCP itself. There seems to be a cancer eating it from within. Between
1. The leaked emails and internal communications showing their horrible internal messaging
2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
3. The obvious gaping rift that has formed between CCP and reality (as well as their customer base).
4. The recent drop in quality and quantity of expansion.
5. The horrible business decisions made with WoD and Dust 514 that I don't think anyone expects to see succeed.
6. The dissatisfaction of CCP's own employees.
7. The broken promises.
8. The laughable launch of Incarna as a feature that is an obvious launching pad to MT, and serves little to no other in game purpose.
9. The disregard and utter contempt for the Eve player base expressed by their own CEO.
10. The laughably stupid decisions being made (such as martyring players) which illustrate just how dysfunctional the company has become.
This has all the makings of a gigantic failscade. For a company called Crowd Control Productions you guys sure aren't doing a very good job.
Wake up call. Your game isn't that great. What makes it great is the player base and the community, and you've damaged it and ****ed it off.
+1 again. ------------------------------------------------
-={Court Jester to the Mentally Incapacitated}=-
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Elliott Calvadeux
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:11:00 -
[773]
Edited by: Elliott Calvadeux on 26/06/2011 22:12:04 I'd still like it said the way the CSM wants it said so there can't be any ambiguity at all. Accounts will remain canceled until I see what the CSM meeting results in.
Here's hoping.
Edit: also thanks for talking to us.
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Deliceous
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:11:00 -
[774]
All I see is a bunch of whiners, which won't allow CCP eve brain storm ideas
If you are going to have a game that continues to be grow and does not die due to attrition then you have to take chances, Aurum is not a big change since we have had plex since 2007,
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente Independent Alchemists
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:11:00 -
[775]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Interesting. Means the Aurum store for Dust will most likely be very successful. However, the minimum ARPU for Eve is already $15 as it isn't f2p.
______ Tippia's analysis of NEX/Incarna |
Slozhenitsyn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:12:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
As will the CSM.
Originally by: Innominate Lies, spin, and equivocation. "Gold ammo" is a catch-all for anything affecting gameplay, and I suspect you're not using it as such here.
I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".
Originally by: Innominate "Please stop talking about this."
On the contrary; start talking about it. Make sure that the CSM, your representatives, is absolutely clear about your opinions. I think we are, but there are always nuances.
Originally by: Weaselior This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".
When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:
However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.
Originally by: Buzzmong I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Thanks, appreciated. You can also email me directly at [email protected]
- Sloz. |
Zarlis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:12:00 -
[777]
Curious devblog title. After seeing it was expecting the content to be another **** you blog like the last one. Left pleasantly surprised.
Also the community use the term "golden ammo" as a catch all for all things spaceship related that you shouldn't be selling in the store. So if this isn't what you had in mind you had better clarify things fast.
Chlorine, coming to the space pool near you. Get your goggles at the Aurum store. Greed is good.pdf |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:12:00 -
[778]
Edited by: Alpheias on 26/06/2011 22:14:13 You speak of mutual trust and respect? Make the CSM meeting June 30th official and not something that is being discussed behind closed doors and let the elected CSM members speak their minds publicly rather than forced to stay silent due to the NDA. And remember, Zulu, it was you who were pleased when the community called CCP out on bull****.
Your piece honestly look like the corporate template PR consultants ask you to throw out when the **** hits the fan. But yes, it would actually be a nice change, if you now meant what you wrote, if you and the company you represent would live up to it.
♫ When your ship gets blown to bits ♫ And you lose your Faction fits \☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/ |
Teako
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:13:00 -
[779]
Edited by: Teako on 26/06/2011 22:13:50 So a new blog with basicly nothing and a bunch of spin. Still no action. Still a fail.
He is not sorry for any of this. He is only sorry for he didnt express himself better the first time.
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Ariel Nova
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:13:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous OK CCP you win.
It is quite obvious you could not say "We will never sell non-vanity items".
My subs have been in cancellation status for 3 days and there is no chance that will ever change now.
They cannot say "no non-vanity items ever" because they need us to dump PLEX into Aurum, thus they will offer whatever they need to offer to get that to happen. If they do say it, they will retract it if people continue to horde PLEX (myself included) and they feel it will help. |
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:16:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
|
Glaso Fruixette
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:16:00 -
[782]
Not enough i'd say. The players are in a state of rage and instead of a bloody piece of meat you throw in some tofu steak....
|
GRiMsReAPeR
Amarr inFluX.
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:16:00 -
[783]
The absolute disrespect to paying customers by a high ranking CCP member is something that should NEVER happen NO MATTER WHAT. You are running a corporation intending to make a profit by making customers happy and bringing in REPEAT SALES. The fact that you are not going in a direction that makes them happy, and then releasing a blog and basically calling your WHOLE player base Idiots and Vain people who would buy 1000 dollar jeans, and then compare it to PIXELS, and say why not is rediculous. And then posting this sorry ass apology tops it. If you went through the ranks in CCP, or were chosen to deal with this, you need to be more responsible and get this MORE HUMBLE, and even more PROFESSIONAL. Theres no reason why your personal feelings should give you the ok to personally DISRESPECT the members of this community and people WHO PAY YOUR SALARY. __________________________________________________
Recruitment Thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204387 |
Scalphunter
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 -
[784]
just typical politician spin.
just get all MT out of game, stop bein money grabbin muppets.
you think a little meetin will make us all forget?!
power to the people
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CEOcat
Gallente CAT Corp
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 -
[785]
"mutual agreement"
So you just promised not to move forward with any MT additions that the CSM does not agree to right? Cause that is very much what it sounds like. I will watch and hope we don't get let down again....
|
Glaso Fruixette
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 -
[786]
Originally by: Deliceous All I see is a bunch of whiners, which won't allow CCP eve brain storm ideas
If you are going to have a game that continues to be grow and does not die due to attrition then you have to take chances, Aurum is not a big change since we have had plex since 2007,
Official statement: "We will never shoot our players in the back" Internal communication (brainstorming as they say): "What if we try with a knife?"
|
Skyreth
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments Sleeper Social Club
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:22:00 -
[787]
CCP is organising to meet the CSM to figure out a way to make things up to us, to reassure us and all the rest...yet so many of you won't even cut them a break in return?...real mature guys, you've just given CCP the moral high-ground there.
I personally think CCP has done a very respectable thing with this. Instead of going the way SOE did with SWG, they are trying to make sure that they have the player communities support and trying to make sure they do the right thing by us. I think we'd all have to at least respect them for going that far.
It's up to each player how they view CCP after this recent event. But if they're actually putting in work to fix things, you guys should be doing the same...nothing can be done if we're failing to help in a constructive manner.
---------------------------------
You think your lag is bad? It took Jesus 3 days to respawn! |
Ghurthe
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 -
[788]
I'm still not turning on my subscriptions again till i hear CCP promise to never confer in gamebenefits for Aurum.
That's $75/month you're losing CCP =D Enjoy.
|
Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 -
[789]
So another spin, nothing given. Just stallments and avoidance. No actions at all.
Even the sorry part wasnt sorry. it was only sorry for not writing it in a better spin the first time.
Do you think we are all dumbass kids or mental ******s? --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
buck herrick
SS-20
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 -
[790]
thank you for your considered response.
this has not been and will not be easy for any concerned - this we understand. i thank both ccp and the CSM (yes even the mittani) for the commitment to the process and i hope that it turns out favourably.
i also sincerly hope that this process has some valuable take-aways for both sides.
whilst i will not be resubbing 3 of my accounts, as the last expires at the end of this year, you have a chance to save one at least.
good luck and thanks again.
|
|
Dyner
Minmatar Midgard Protectorate
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 -
[791]
We are waiting...we are watching. ----------------
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
|
Grojar Flesp
Gallente SQS Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:25:00 -
[792]
Hi CCP Zulu,
I don't think your reply was the problem, not understanding your customers (or at least the customers of Eve) is.
Good to get in touch with CSM, but most of the issues should have been thought up beforehand, in stead of watching the ..... hit the fan afterwards. On my account there should be 2 things on the agenda: 1. Either it's an subscription based game or not. Paying twice for something is not good, however which way you look at it. 2. You made a promise, or better, CCP made a promise. NO real life currency in the game, heck why would we be hunting farmers anyways. Are you going to keep your promise, or not. If not, do you really think your loyal subscribers will be loyal enough? And, do you think any new subscribers will really go for this?
Again, I think you could / should have thought of this beforehand.
One more thing:
Can I please (pretty please if must be) have a checkbox to turn walking in stations off? Thanx in advance
Grojar Flesp ------------------------- This is so much fun to watch, it's like a kick in the crotch
I can't watch this W.A. Yankovic ------------------------- |
Estelle McDeal
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:26:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Really worth to watch this.
It is EXACTLY what Zulu told us. They are offering items via NeX that players demand.
One difference left: We already pay for EvE and the greedy tards don¦t get enough and this is what will **** off people.
|
NekoKitten
Gallente Blake Industries LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:26:00 -
[794]
I dont really care about vanity or non vanity items, I'm completely okay if somebody wants to buy a 1000 dollar ship (but still has to learn the skills for) or Meta 20 Gold Ammo for 250 dollar (I wouldnt buy it anyhow) but I wouldnt like it if anybody could buy skillpoints or standing, cos thats something we worked hard for over the year(s).
My 2 cents to this ..
|
Elrica bloodbane
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:27:00 -
[795]
The only thing that will sort this out. NO MT EVER PERIOD. If you have new content for the game introduce it, because its all ready been paid for.
|
ViperLok
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:29:00 -
[796]
More BS from CCP. take note: As you fall another will rise.
Ill be over at perpetuum.
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RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:30:00 -
[797]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 22:31:14
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Whats with all the CCP alts posting this. We already explained the fundamental differences and why its not a comparable example a million times over.
Or are these the guys CCP hired for their expert opinions?
They want us to pay twice or 5 times over for what we already pay for. Thats just crap.
|
Aussie ALF
One Gear Inc
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:31:00 -
[798]
+1
Originally by: Baillif
QFT. The biggest concern I have is CCP itself. There seems to be a cancer eating it from within. Between
1. The leaked emails and internal communications showing their horrible internal messaging
2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe
3. The obvious gaping rift that has formed between CCP and reality (as well as their customer base).
4. The recent drop in quality and quantity of expansion.
5. The horrible business decisions made with WoD and Dust 514 that I don't think anyone expects to see succeed.
6. The dissatisfaction of CCP's own employees.
7. The broken promises.
8. The laughable launch of Incarna as a feature that is an obvious launching pad to MT, and serves little to no other in game purpose.
9. The disregard and utter contempt for the Eve player base expressed by their own CEO.
10. The laughably stupid decisions being made (such as martyring players) which illustrate just how dysfunctional the company has become.
This has all the makings of a gigantic failscade. For a company called Crowd Control Productions you guys sure aren't doing a very good job.
Wake up call. Your game isn't that great. What makes it great is the player base and the community, and you've damaged it and ****ed it off.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:32:00 -
[799]
CCP needs to understand that brainstorming on these topics is an effort in futility. If you bring in non-vanity MT your game is dead. Plain and simple.
Why even waste time "brainstorming"? If you want an exercise in applied fantasy why not imagine what each CCP employee would do with his own unicorn?
Listen to the players who gave you the money in the first place or those same players are going to take that money somewhere else. It's not complicated.
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:32:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Its a very interesting presentation, although it has to be said that BFH is a very different style of game, and I would suggest appeals to a different demographic of player. Its worth noting that BFH starts from a basis of F2P, whereas EVE is subscription based. Will MT work for DUST? Almost certainly. Will it 'harm' some of the core elements of EVE. Again almost certainly.
CCP should consider that. They should also listen to us canaries.
C.
'GREED IS GOOD' - CCP 2011 (ಠ_O)
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Winnie Pooh
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:34:00 -
[801]
I don't mind if some people insist on dressing up their chess buttons. It is not my loss if some people like to play with pretty dolls. It just won't be chess anymore if players are allowed to convert their pawns to queens with money.
Please CCP, don't pimp my ride. It has been fun, but it wouldn't be the first MMO I've loved, hated and quit.
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Ekon Bor
Amarr Van Diemen's Demise Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 -
[802]
Out of curiousity, how many virtual monocles does it take to cover an return airfare to Iceland? Just wondering if the 52 sales don't look as sexy on the P&L statement now as they did on Friday
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BugraT WarheaD
Astromechanica Federatis
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 -
[803]
Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 26/06/2011 22:36:12 Hi Zulu (and all CCP people) !
I must admit that you blog is touching, an I, as an old eve player, I must admit too that I really want to believe what you say ... because i can't trust that you were doing things against the player base ... so you convince me to wait quietly for now
I really wish this was an episode and that we are going to move forward now, 'cause Jesus I love Eve dude
With that blog, and the coming meeting, you've regain all my trust.
Hope we'll fly side by side for a relly long long time !
- I want to believe poster on my wall -
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 -
[804]
Originally by: The Mittani This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
Its not a surprise your against MT. It will hurt your powerbase and bot infested rented space.
You are only interested in protecting your own interests and have been for years. You spread fear and panic and where elected based on your block voting lemmings.
The CSM is the biggest vanity item of the lot. How many plex does it take to get elected to the CSM? maybe with MT you can buy a seat on the CSM
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MezriDax
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 -
[805]
Edited by: MezriDax on 26/06/2011 22:38:32 "we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. " Try a couple of years of CCP not listening to the people who play the game (also known as your customer base, you know, the ones that pay your salary).
"I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship." Up to now there has been very little here but a one sided relationship. We scream about what we want and you turn a deaf ear to us. You haven't listened to your customers and still don't. There has not been any trust among the players that I know of other than our trust that CCP loves to nerf anything good and continue to "level the playing field" by destroying everything we work to achieve.
" help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy." It's simply amazing how deaf and out of touch people at CCP have become. It's not about "virtual goods", 95% of us wouldn't pay for that if a new pair of jeans was 1 cent. It's about everything that we keep screaming about and you NOT LISTENING. CCP is going off on it's merry way destroying the game while the customers get aggravated. PLEASE, listen to what we want for once and more so, DO IT.
"Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session." Gee whiz, are you really going to listen or do something THIS TIME? What happened to the past few years of complaints and concerns. Were your "experts" not telling you your entire customer base wanted something different?
"This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all." You could start by reading your own forums, you'll find many things we (the ones who pay for all this) want to see in the game.
Seriously Mr. Fallout, after a few years of you NOT listening and spitefully telling us your going to do things despite a majority of the community disagreeing with you, there is no trust anymore. Many people are gone and many of us are telling our friends who are interested that the lure of Eve has been nerf'd and the game is being destroyed.
I'm posting for my corporation right now because they appointed me as their voice. We sincerely want to continue playing Eve. People like me have never played any other game and when I leave this game I won't play another game. Last week my corporation (all friends in RL now) discussed what other games there are to play. I realized that we are soon at the end of our time in Eve and I'm sad. I enjoy playing with my friends and don't want to leave. We are looking elsewhere as I'm sure many of your clients are now doing. Wake up and smell the coffee, you're killing the game, making it a pain for the people who play and we're tired of it. Vote to save Eve by DOING what the players want, not giving us nice political talk and posturing.
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:38:00 -
[806]
And how about the ban of HELICITY BOSON?
You know, the vengence ban. Plus everyone else that got banned to try and crumble the riots and leaks to avoid the bad PR. It was obviously a waste of time for Pann to attent that community meeting. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Captain Macanudo
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 -
[807]
Hello.
Thank you.
My petition about this already sent. I'm waiting.
No critics. But no thrust until the answer or to date of the meeting with the official response.
As I said before, there are other options and life continues. And I will save five accounts/year.
CapMac
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Athellant Nardieu
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 -
[808]
I might not be a pro at business, but surely you should be having meetings with CSM in the first place and not waiting until something like this happens, especially as the success of CCP relies upon making the community happy.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 -
[809]
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
Now, here is a quote from the newsletter. Note that this quote is from page 9 after the comments by the 2 Devs. The title for the article is ---EVE: Delivering the goods: virtual sales in Incarna
Read the page..... It is not their to foster debate. It is a statement of fact for what CCP has planned.
"CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. While this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?"
"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
"One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings."
"So we might sell tiny things or batches of consumable goods for just a few ômicro- PLEX,ö but we would have the option to sell premium content and services at a much higher price point."
"Thus, we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna environment, nor build that environment around such sales; rather, we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVE experience."
Sure sounds like they have plans for it to me!
Zulu's latest blog is BS.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 -
[810]
Thank you.
I know there are a lot of different viewpoints in regards to some of the issues raised from the last expansion and I know how difficult it is to try and please everyone, but this latest dev blog is at least a sign those conversations will take place.
I feel so much in the last expansion when by without any player or CSM input, even though perhaps from a code point of view it was so little, but a few little tweaks between SISI and TQ can make all the difference. It is good to know that there are going to be conversations that at least acknowledge that. I do not condone some of the lengths players went to to show their disapproval, though I do recognise the importance of peaceful protest, and I also recognise that this is not because of hate but because of the love people have for this game and the passion which the bring to it.
Again, I sincerely thank you for at least sitting down at the table to discuss the issues which so many feel are very important to the future of the game.
Makko
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amarri victari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 -
[811]
Originally by: The Mittani This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
mittans
may i also please ask that you address the issues of recent bans whilst there, i think there needs to be some deliberation on this if nothing else.
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Aroh X
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:41:00 -
[812]
Thanks for finally starting to give some decent feedback.
I think what we are seeing here is a culmination of a lot of little things that have been happening lately. This expansion brings it all to a head and gives a lot of people who have been playing EVE for a long time a prime opportunity to really stop and think about whether they want to keep playing EVE going forward. This major change in direction for EVE (higher system requirements, Incarna, micro transactions), is an obvious 'break point' for those addicted to EVE, it brings them back to reality and makes them really question whether this game should continue to be an important part of their future.
That's my take on what needs to be addressed... not quite sure how you do that though to be honest and it may be that the damage is already done... but it's not about any one little thing, a committment to fixing up existing game play issues is probably a good area to shift some focus to if possible... just to remind everyone that all CCP dev's are not focused on making prettier monocles to sell in the AUR shop.
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Roosterton
Internet SpaceCraft Raiding Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:44:00 -
[813]
This is finally good to hear. Anyone who's nitpicking on the "golden ammo" wording is now just clamoring for attention and unwilling to drop the "ccp sucks" bandwagon. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Dibble Dabble
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:44:00 -
[814]
Originally by: amarri victari
Originally by: The Mittani This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
mittans
may i also please ask that you address the issues of recent bans whilst there, i think there needs to be some deliberation on this if nothing else.
BANS are bans and well out of the scope of the CSM. No special treatment for CSM members, friends of CSM members or their lemmings.
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Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:45:00 -
[815]
Better.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:46:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Roosterton This is finally good to hear. Anyone who's nitpicking on the "golden ammo" wording is now just clamoring for attention and unwilling to drop the "ccp sucks" bandwagon.
You miss the part about EVOLVING, or something.
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Van Muchbetterer
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:47:00 -
[817]
Please let's not forget about the fact that while it offers alot for new palyers, incarna adds almost nothing to the older playerbase. I'm playing only for about 2-3 month, but this expansion does not give me anything new to do.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:47:00 -
[818]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 26/06/2011 22:50:50 The problem with MT should already be clear. The question of whether or not MTs will compromise the quality of EVE Online has already been answered.
CQ is being force-fed to players so we have a reason to buy vanity goods through NEX. CQ is more demanding and less functional than the hangar view that it replaces. The conclusion that I have a hard time escaping is that CCP is adopting the view that sacrificing the quality of the game is acceptable if it improves the odds that they'll sell a greater quantities of virtual clothes and monocles.
If the door is left open for MT for convenience features or other things that offer an in-game advantage, or circumvention of the player-driven economy, then you can expect the design mentality in evidence with Incarna to be embraced in ways that will cause overall quality of the game to continue to decline, probably at a much-accelerated rate.
This is a strategy that ultimately turns the developers against any player that isn't happy to keep opening his wallet (above and beyond his subscription payment) for a better (or even status quo) gaming experience. Put a limit on ship fitting, then charge players to get it back. Hide other entities' faction standings to make faction grinding a more opaque process with fewer viable options available through the sandbox, then let people to pay CCP money to remove that inconvenience as well.
Existing failings, flaws and inconveniences in the game can also be shamelessly exploited: Pay aurum to make POS management less of a hassle. Pay aurum to buy an Advanced Informoph Psychology skill manual. Pay aurum for WTZ autopiloting.
Then you pay for access to better or easier access to ships, modules and ammo. If these options end up generating any kind of significant revenue for CCP, it's hard to believe that they wouldn't be having a significant impact on the events that are unfolding in the game and, that the competitive playing field will have been shifted and the player-driven economy will have been corrupted in ways that have significant consequences for most or all players.
There's no reason for players who love EVE for what it has traditionally been to accept any of this, unless CCP is in such dire financial straits that this is the only possible option that allows EVE to exist in any form, and thereby preserve any shred of the game's essence. And if this is the case, CCP shouldn't be shy about embracing what it needs to do, and should stop denying that there are plans to embrace MT and start working to bring the plans to fruition ... unless they're trying to trick us, trying to change EVE before our eyes without our noticing, trying to string us along, which frankly is the impression I'm getting (and is the impression conveyed in Fearless newsletter, Zulu's objections about "context" notwithstanding -- remember, Arnar, we don't trust you, and you're still being cagey). Either way it makes sense to simply quit now, and hope it sends a message and that CCP is a position to act on that message.
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Laendra
Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:53:00 -
[819]
Why is a CSM visit required to understand that we don't ****ing want non-vanity RMT? -------------------
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Teako
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:54:00 -
[820]
Thanks for a whole bunch of nothing again ÇÇP Zulu. Trying to play the waiting game again. You did ZERO in your blog. It was a pure spin of NOTHING. You couldnt even say SORRY for what ÇÇP have done.
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Mos7Wan7ed
Gallente Hardcore Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:54:00 -
[821]
I expect the CSM to help get to the bottom it. Its time for CCP to bear it all to CSM and let the CSM decide of CCP has gone off the rails with MT or just needs to be tweaked. Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. |
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:55:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Narcissus Tombs Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 19:22:01 Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 18:40:27 So far you're pulling it right out of the PR handbook.
I'll just leave this here Linkage
Edit: And this lovely link tallying 4482 unsubbed accounts so far.
What you seem to be missing, Zulu, is that even thought the future of MT is the biggest rage issue here, it's just a symptom of the dissatisfaction and dissapointmend we've felt with you, CCP as a whole, for a while now. I am not trying to attack anyone at CCP, just convey my dissatisfaction and sadness, and what my view of CCP has degraded to.
This is not speculation, but quite well known now, that you are using Eve as a cash cow and forced alpha test for your new projects, both of which are progressing at a rate beyond slow and sucking money and resources out of your flagship product.
What is worse, you simply don't care about the game anymore. Investors and aesthetics come before gameplay. This is something you've been saying internally, and now that it's out there you send PR meatshields to delay things until they cool down. "If it looks good, it is good." Sound familiar? Because apparently it's said quite a bit around the CCP offices.
The fact is, you simply don't have a vision for Eve.
You have been flying by the seat of your pants for who knows how long, adding features on a whim and wasting colossal amounts of time and money on things players often don't want.
You are forcing unwanted content on us simply to gain free alpha testing for your next game.
You can't take negative criticism.
You ignore the playerbase that made you great.
You have a rockstar mentality that is completely unwarranted.
You are trying to push a niche game into the a mainstream market.
You lack professionalism.
You have no internal editing, or any that we can see, because of your childish dislike of negative criticism.
You release untested, half-baked expansions.
You ignore the mountains of information and suggestions and criticism your players give you to improve it.
You have ruined your image with new players. As seen here.
You push what you want, not what we want.
This is a service, if people dislike it, they'll stop paying for it.
You have been buying your own PR more than your players.
You have ignored the high-maintenance requirements for a game like Eve, instead adding more content itself in need of editing.
You set unrealistic goals, internally and externally, that you know you can't meet, but hype anyway.
You have yet to give a straight answer about non-vanity items. We don't want cute remarks or metaphors or comparisons or synecdoches, we want a YES OR NO ANSWER.
You assume stupidity on the part of your players, and it's just insulting. The average age of eve players is 29, if I recall correctly. Many are older, and none of them are going to fall for delay tactics and PR spin.
And most importantly, lost the love you once had for your universe.
Most of this post comes from a review by one of your own employees, linked here.
I love CCP and I love Eve, but now that you have other projects in the works, it seems like you have simply dropped the idea of improving Eve entirely, and for this reason, I have unsubbed, along with more than 4000 other accounts. I honestly hope you can set a worthwhile vision for Eve, and follow it, because without that, the game is going to start decaying. I am not being fanatical or defeatist, this is simply what is going to happen, and has happened to many other MMOs.
Best of Luck, and I hope Eve gets the attention and care it deserves.
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:55:00 -
[823]
For the moment I am happy with that dev blog release. Not content but quelled.
Like others I hold skepticism that the reference to "golden ammo" is a very literal reference and not a metaphor for P2W as a concept. But for now I can wait a few more days. Not many more, but a few more.
I'm bummed that in my home forum, so far FIVE people have joined Eve because of my encourage, and literally in that week this has come up. I would not enjoy having to turn around to those guys and tell them they've just signed up for a game with P2W on the way.
The truth is that P2W does damage a game. In terms of gameplay, P2W does damage a game. A debate around this point could be entered into but for now I'll state it as assumed and based on that, move to my next point:
CCP, you are going to have to make choices about the integrity of Eve's gameplay, and profit margins.
It's your business; you can do what you want. Players may or may not be disappointed by things that you do with Eve but but that is not a burden that you owe us, only something for you to consider. It's your game, your product.
And money talks very loud; can't be denied.
And it does come down to this. If P2W is demonstrably going to create more profits than the way things are now, is there even a decision here?
- Is this a question of: "How fair to game would such a change be?"
Or is it truly business: "Would P2W MT improve profits?"
If it's the latter then like I said, it's your business and your call. It doesn't matter what anyone does; the statistics and economists will be the deciders.
I am writing this to throw out there the notion that it might be the former. I am wondering if CCP really might be willing to consider the value of their game, as a game. As a piece of fun. And perhaps give that enough significance and value to decide that maybe no, damaging the gameplay for a better profit isn't a great choice, isn't something to be proud of; there has to be a better way.
Because with Eve, CCP has a lot to be really proud of from a gamer's perspective.
What other game has aged so well to still look impressive and occasionally beautiful 8 years on?
What other game has such an incredible market? What other game has such a mature moral code as to allow such serious metagaming to occur? What other game has so much complexity in its offering of internet spaceships and toys for internet spaceships? Entire websites and communities exist out there that focus solely on fitting your internet spaceship.
EVE is like a behemoth that stands above in the gaming industry, for reasons based on gameplay. It's the big daddy of a lot of things, based on gameplay.
Implementing P2W will significantly damage that. So I hope it really might be the former of those two possibilities I mentioned above. That the value of Eve as a game really does hold some weight against the value of Eve as a product. I know money speaks louder than anything, but sometimes, some developers out there really are genuinely impressive and loved by their games' fans.
PS. I hope you also discuss the optional CQ issue. We sorely miss an alternative to CQ that is visually appealing but not GPU-intense. Ie, ship hangar with 'Leave Pod' option.
PPS. Bring back the real Aura.
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Galenea Moreau
Galactic Operations
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:59:00 -
[824]
So I basically just typed up a 4000 character rant about betrayal of player trust but I can't post it. As much as I want to I love the game too much and after 6 years I still do.
I have one request . Listen to the players, for gods sake listen to them and fix it, but don't wait too long.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:59:00 -
[825]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 26/06/2011 23:01:24
I appreciate this blog. Calling in the CSM is an appropriate response to this crisis. If the resulting negotiations, are open, transparent and meaningfull, then they will be a first step in regaining our trust.
Points that I personally see as central:
CPP should commit to
- keep the sandbox free of pay2win contaminations.
- open up the Incarna Content to all your subscribers.
Our money financed its development. We have a right to this content. Hell we want to enjoy this content.
- the fact that eve is a game about spaceships.
That content needs to be developed along Incarna, not after it.
Personally I find RMT disgusting. Nevertheless I can respect that strategic decision, if you make the aforementioned commitments.
Keep the Macro-Transcactions for the financially insane and give the rest of us financially responsible micro-transactions.
If the last days have shown anything then it is this:
We love EVE.
But they have also show how quickly love can turn into hate if spoiled.
This is your chance to do it right CCP. Please do not fail us, this time or ever after.
Sandbox or Death! |
Lira Reib
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:00:00 -
[826]
Edited by: Lira Reib on 26/06/2011 22:59:42 .
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:01:00 -
[827]
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: Narcissus Tombs Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 19:22:01 Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 18:40:27 So far you're pulling it right out of the PR handbook.
I'll just leave this here Linkage
Edit: And this lovely link tallying 4482 unsubbed accounts so far.
What you seem to be missing, Zulu, is that even thought the future of MT is the biggest rage issue here, it's just a symptom of the dissatisfaction and dissapointmend we've felt with you, CCP as a whole, for a while now. I am not trying to attack anyone at CCP, just convey my dissatisfaction and sadness, and what my view of CCP has degraded to.
This is not speculation, but quite well known now, that you are using Eve as a cash cow and forced alpha test for your new projects, both of which are progressing at a rate beyond slow and sucking money and resources out of your flagship product.
What is worse, you simply don't care about the game anymore. Investors and aesthetics come before gameplay. This is something you've been saying internally, and now that it's out there you send PR meatshields to delay things until they cool down. "If it looks good, it is good." Sound familiar? Because apparently it's said quite a bit around the CCP offices.
The fact is, you simply don't have a vision for Eve.
You have been flying by the seat of your pants for who knows how long, adding features on a whim and wasting colossal amounts of time and money on things players often don't want.
You are forcing unwanted content on us simply to gain free alpha testing for your next game.
You can't take negative criticism.
You ignore the playerbase that made you great.
You have a rockstar mentality that is completely unwarranted.
You are trying to push a niche game into the a mainstream market.
You lack professionalism.
You have no internal editing, or any that we can see, because of your childish dislike of negative criticism.
You release untested, half-baked expansions.
You ignore the mountains of information and suggestions and criticism your players give you to improve it.
You have ruined your image with new players. As seen here.
You push what you want, not what we want.
This is a service, if people dislike it, they'll stop paying for it.
You have been buying your own PR more than your players.
You have ignored the high-maintenance requirements for a game like Eve, instead adding more content itself in need of editing.
You set unrealistic goals, internally and externally, that you know you can't meet, but hype anyway.
You have yet to give a straight answer about non-vanity items. We don't want cute remarks or metaphors or comparisons or synecdoches, we want a YES OR NO ANSWER.
You assume stupidity on the part of your players, and it's just insulting. The average age of eve players is 29, if I recall correctly. Many are older, and none of them are going to fall for delay tactics and PR spin.
And most importantly, lost the love you once had for your universe.
Most of this post comes from a review by one of your own employees, linked here.
I love CCP and I love Eve, but now that you have other projects in the works, it seems like you have simply dropped the idea of improving Eve entirely, and for this reason, I have unsubbed, along with more than 4000 other accounts. I honestly hope you can set a worthwhile vision for Eve, and follow it, because without that, the game is going to start decaying. I am not being fanatical or defeatist, this is simply what is going to happen, and has happened to many other MMOs.
Best of Luck, and I hope Eve gets the attention and care it deserves.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Kaos Supreme
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 -
[828]
"Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy....."
Concerns?! How's this for starters >
NO MICRO-TRANSACTIONS FOR NON VANITY ITEMS!
FIX THE ****IN LAG SO THAT MAJOR ALLIANCES CAN COMPETE FOR CONTROL OF REGIONS AND THE RESOURCES WITHIN(As advertised) SO THAT STRATEGY & TEAMWORK DETERMINES THE OUTCOME NOT LAG!
NULL SEC AND MOON RESOURCES NEEDS A MAJOR OVERHAUL!
DESTROY ONCE AND FOR ALL THE ABILITY TO RUN BOTS / MACROS!
|
Algathas
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:03:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper Very disappointing. So we already pay you a fee per month for this game and its features, and now you want us to pay you again on top of that.
Not to mention that clothes will cost more than a whole ship. If an article of clothing costs more isk than even an executioner it will be laughable at best.
And for those who think that it will give more $ to develop the things in eve we have been wanting think again. The $ will only fund devs to make more of this utter crap instead of fixing / adding core features to the game. Why should they update and add things for "free" when they can **** you for more cash by making clothes with their time. This is already evident with the last updates. Nerf this, screw that, bunch of updates with little thought or effort put into them, while their devs are spending time proudly making clothes to sell.
If they really wanted to make clothes a great system, they would make a way to manufacture them with patterns, PI textiles, dyes, etc. The same with painting your ship - paints could be manufactured, industrialists could paint ships, etc. Instead were left with disappointment.
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Alexis Sachs
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:05:00 -
[830]
Ok, talking to the CSM is a good idea. I also appreciate the fact you choose your words a bit more carefully. Good to know you figured out we were unhappy folks - and that when folks are unhappy, words matter.
I'm still not sure where you all stand on non-vanity. It appears that maybe your gold ammo comment is meant to mean non-vanity. That wasn't a particularly clear sentence. We are all hoping that you in fact mean: that you will not sell pay to win items items that change what EVE is.
If people want to waste cash on monocles that offer nothing but pixels on their avatar - fine. More power to them and I can't say I particularly care. But if you ever do sell items that offer a tangible, real advantage in terms of game play - the spaceships in space part of EVE - then I and many of us are DONE. See, you, at the end of the day, need to be that clear. This is the answer we want to know, finally, unambiguously. If the answer is "no, we will not" then I'll stick around. If it is "actually, yeah, we do want to sell you gold ammo" then fine. It's your company, you make the game, but I'll not be playing it.
I guess what I'm saying is that while you all think EVE in time will become more than spaceships in space, please don't forget about the spaceships in space part. Vanity avatars may become serious business for the people that like that. But to some of us, it's the spaceships in space part that is serious business.
Overall, I'm not sure you did much with this blog. I will say I'm stunned, STUNNED, that it came out today and not tomorrow. You do get my credit for doing this on a weekend as this situation is in fact important enough to not wait until Monday. I can also understand that you don't want to comment further until after the emergency CSM meeting. It's not that far off. But you all at CCP can not take 5 days (or some other lengthy period) AFTER it finishes to get information out to us. If the meeting is on the 30th of June and the 1st of July - we're gonna need and want you to have a statement out regarding this meeting on July 2.
And frankly, that shouldn't be too difficult. If folks like Fallout, Manifest, and Pann (using her as example of community liaison, we know of her situation and many of us offer our hopes for her daughter) are doing their jobs of passing along our thoughts as expressed here and elsewhere (we know someone is paying attention) then when you talk to the CSM their input shouldn't be shocking to hear. Can you all really claim to NOT know what has us riled up? I didn't think so.
Lastly - while I think the CSM has a handle on the other concerns besides pay to win gold ammo (as ANYONE would if simply paying marginal attention to this whole situation) please do not fail to simply answer other questions. At the end of the day, I may not like your answers, but not being told anything can be worse at times. I just want to know, from you, CCP, if I should keep playing. Your answers will tell me that. If I don't like what I hear, fair play, I can move on. And I think I got to rambling here at the end, I'm tired from all this.
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Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:09:00 -
[831]
Apologies are no good to us. Still, thanks for admitting it.
OK, that just makes the whole thing sound like a bunch of twunts testiculating. If apologies are no good to "us" then why even bother trying to appease "us"? Now, "**** you guys," seems like a measured and reasonable response.
Once again, Please repeat after me: "There will never be non-vanity MT's in Eve Online".
The problem with them saying something like that is two fold:
1. How can anyone say "never", especially a business that has to follow where the market leads? The best honest answer anyone can give to something like that is that they have no plans to ever do such a thing, and that's what we've been given. If that's not enough for you then what you're really asking is to be lied to.
2. They already do sell items for real $$ that amount to game enhancing items that can only be had this way. If you buy an EvE Online box you get this plugin that lasts for 30 days and gives you +3 to all your attributes. It cannot be transferred to any other character but the first new character you create on the account the box is used to register.
So there it is. They've done it in at least some degree. A friend of mine I just got into EvE a little while ago bought like 3 of these things. It's not much of an enhancement, and it is far from permanent, but it is an item in the game that you can't buy with ISK, only with real money. Unlike the shuttle that came in the previous one, this item actually has consequences and works as a "convenience" item.
I personally am not at all bothered by this thing but it does mean that if they where to tell me that they'll never sell P2W or conveniences in-game for real $$ I'd have to conclude that they're liars because they already have.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:09:00 -
[832]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 26/06/2011 23:12:36 Edited by: Cadela Fria on 26/06/2011 23:11:46
Originally by: Kah Niel
i call damage control x2 lol, ohh no things are going wrong! lets call csm to iceland itl buy us a few days! when they get here we can then try to convince them they should speak our case and try to get people to spend tons of money on aurum! i meen ccp... u seen the logs from jita rens and everywere els, i do belive alot of people have been spaming something close to "NO MT IN EVE" is it realy that hard to missunderstand?
I call conspiracy theory nut on you. Really? Where do you get your information from? You don't know what will be said and neither do I. Remember the CSM are our representatives, and if you think they're so fickle and easy to brainwash, then why aren't you running for CSM if you're so much better instead of this armchair cleverness. Its so easy to whine, but until you stand behind your words and do something about it, its just whining.
EDIT: You *WANT* there to be a conspiracy, you're not content to get an answer that dismissed this conspiracy. No matter what they're saying and doing its all just a cover for what they're "REALLY" planning to do.
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secondproto
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:11:00 -
[833]
I can actually, for one, understand Zulu's participation in an emotional outburst. The thing is, EVE is not only a baby to its subscriber base, but also to its developers.
This week's events have stirred up a hornets' nest and there is no denying that it did unrepairable damage to CCP and EVE Online's subscriber base. Yet, many of these issues, that apparently made quite a few accounts quit, are quite hypocritic at best.
One example is the, alleged, plan to extend the service of the NeX store to non-vanity items, if anything, I can't see why so many people complain about this, aren't EVE's most powerful alliances fueled by RMT or automated scripts? This makes EVE a very volatile place for new people, as EVE is the only place where there is such a huge, huge gap between players and their veterancy status.
And now, CCP, either fictionally or non-fictionally introduced the idea of adding non-vanity items to the fray, and all the ego-tripping, e-peen intolerant alliance executors see this as a breach in their monopoly status in EVE, simply because this will introduce a way to actually attain more SP than EVE's most loyal and earliest subscriber.
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derivativo
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:11:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Narcissus Tombs Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 19:22:01 Edited by: Narcissus Tombs on 26/06/2011 18:40:27 So far you're pulling it right out of the PR handbook.
I'll just leave this here Linkage
Edit: And this lovely link tallying 4482 unsubbed accounts so far.
What you seem to be missing, Zulu, is that even thought the future of MT is the biggest rage issue here, it's just a symptom of the dissatisfaction and dissapointmend we've felt with you, CCP as a whole, for a while now. I am not trying to attack anyone at CCP, just convey my dissatisfaction and sadness, and what my view of CCP has degraded to.
This is not speculation, but quite well known now, that you are using Eve as a cash cow and forced alpha test for your new projects, both of which are progressing at a rate beyond slow and sucking money and resources out of your flagship product.
What is worse, you simply don't care about the game anymore. Investors and aesthetics come before gameplay. This is something you've been saying internally, and now that it's out there you send PR meatshields to delay things until they cool down. "If it looks good, it is good." Sound familiar? Because apparently it's said quite a bit around the CCP offices.
The fact is, you simply don't have a vision for Eve.
You have been flying by the seat of your pants for who knows how long, adding features on a whim and wasting colossal amounts of time and money on things players often don't want.
You are forcing unwanted content on us simply to gain free alpha testing for your next game.
You can't take negative criticism.
You ignore the playerbase that made you great.
You have a rockstar mentality that is completely unwarranted.
You are trying to push a niche game into the a mainstream market.
You lack professionalism.
You have no internal editing, or any that we can see, because of your childish dislike of negative criticism.
You release untested, half-baked expansions.
You ignore the mountains of information and suggestions and criticism your players give you to improve it.
You have ruined your image with new players. As seen here.
You push what you want, not what we want.
This is a service, if people dislike it, they'll stop paying for it.
You have been buying your own PR more than your players.
You have ignored the high-maintenance requirements for a game like Eve, instead adding more content itself in need of editing.
You set unrealistic goals, internally and externally, that you know you can't meet, but hype anyway.
You have yet to give a straight answer about non-vanity items. We don't want cute remarks or metaphors or comparisons or synecdoches, we want a YES OR NO ANSWER.
You assume stupidity on the part of your players, and it's just insulting. The average age of eve players is 29, if I recall correctly. Many are older, and none of them are going to fall for delay tactics and PR spin.
And most importantly, lost the love you once had for your universe.
Most of this post comes from a review by one of your own employees, linked here.
I love CCP and I love Eve, but now that you have other projects in the works, it seems like you have simply dropped the idea of improving Eve entirely, and for this reason, I have unsubbed, along with more than 4000 other accounts. I honestly hope you can set a worthwhile vision for Eve, and follow it, because without that, the game is going to start decaying. I am not being fanatical or defeatist, this is simply what is going to happen, and has happened to many other MMOs.
Best of Luck, and I hope Eve gets the attention and care it deserves.
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Abaidaa
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:12:00 -
[835]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Indeed a very interesting presentation. The differences between BFH and EVE have been mentioned, and may be very obvious. I think though CCP knows very well, that there are just a very few pea****s around in New Eden, who like to look special. But these pea****s are generaly older and have proper jobs and with it higher income than the common BFH player. This might explain the high prices in the nex. So they go the way of high prices (for the few) rather than making lower (attractive) prices for the masses. The profit may be similar.
I'm sure CCP knows this presnetation or a least its content, because the golf comparison appers in there and the leacked fearless blue sky thinking.
I also want to add this thought, as I don't want to be part of the silent majority, which never posts/cares (this is my 2nd post ever after almost 3 years as paying subscriber!).
And most important: Don't go beyond vanity items! You find billions of reasons for avoiding that around here these days. I'd rather pay more for my subscrition, if you really need the cash.
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Graava
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:12:00 -
[836]
Edited by: Graava on 26/06/2011 23:13:30 First off let me say this is a welcome but tardy first step.
However as to this seciotn of your blog...
Quote: The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words. However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
Allow my cycnical nature to call bullshyte on this paragraph. The previous blog was the result of a whole day of meetings and personal emotions would NOT have been allowed through the PR propaganda machine. The original post still stands as is, totally insulting to the intelligence of the Eve community.
Originally by: Darik Jita
Quote: what you do, not what you say
This is now the only 'trust' we have for CCP, words are meaningless!
Two accounts of four already run out and they will not be renewed until we see something substantive!
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Grit Diaspora
Gallente Money Flow Index.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:12:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Kaos Supreme "Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy....."
Concerns?! How's this for starters >
NO MICRO-TRANSACTIONS FOR NON VANITY ITEMS!
FIX THE ****IN LAG SO THAT MAJOR ALLIANCES CAN COMPETE FOR CONTROL OF REGIONS AND THE RESOURCES WITHIN(As advertised) SO THAT STRATEGY & TEAMWORK DETERMINES THE OUTCOME NOT LAG!
NULL SEC AND MOON RESOURCES NEEDS A MAJOR OVERHAUL!
DESTROY ONCE AND FOR ALL THE ABILITY TO RUN BOTS / MACROS!
This ^ |
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:16:00 -
[838]
I am only a little heartened by Zulu's blog, still a little vague and slippery for me. Plus they did not need to fly the CSM out to Iceland, get them on SKYPE ASAP and have a few conference calls to sort things out NOW! not in a weeks time.
I really need to know only one thing, are there plans for Game effecting MT goods/services in EVE Yes/No. If Yes I'm gone (accounts are allready un-subbed and ticking down) if its a definite No, I'll re-sub.
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Karri Wilts
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:17:00 -
[839]
What can the CSM say in Iceland they haven't already said on the forums, over skype, on blogs, etc etc? It's very simple - no MTs for anything non-vanity. The community is furious because you (yes you, CCP Zulu, personally) promised us that less than 12 months ago and now we've found you have been debating exactly how far you can go in breaking your word.
No gold ammo, no ships-for-aurum, no standings resets, nothing that impacts the game, ever. Paint jobs and monocles we can live with. That's the line.
Of course, that's assuming you can ever regain our trust. As Hilmar said about us - we'll be watching what you do, not what you say. Till then, Perpetuum's pretty cool. Their devs are happy to say no when asked about non-vanity MTs.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:20:00 -
[840]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
It is good that you took this seriously and not lightly (as the first blogs and posts made look like).
I am waiting what comes out of this. There are aspects of incarna I like, lets stay on that road.
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Lynx Amurie
Caldari Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:24:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Vhelia
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Dr Lebroi
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:29:00 -
[842]
Please, please do the right thing and not the wrong thing and by that I mean, sit by a river or walk up a mountain, be at peace with yourself and your thoughts and then ask the important questions and listen to the answers you get. There is still time.
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Luke S
Zeta Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:30:00 -
[843]
Originally by: Tsu Hak Edited by: Tsu Hak on 26/06/2011 19:01:43 TOO LATE CCP AND NOT ENOUGH
CCP Zulu already murdered 2 of my accounts by the crap he posts
RIP both
Annie *28.3.2007 to June 2011 and Ivy *26.12.2009 to June 2011
That's your own damn fault Tas hak. Dont blame CCP for your actions.
When I saw people say/do what you did, I was shocked you would make such of a harsh decision based on rumors and speculations.
Now go back to WoW and QQ like they do. ---
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Dennie Fleetfoot
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:31:00 -
[844]
This a small sign of contrition from Zulu but my alt sub remains cancelled till a solid, clear and resounding no to ALL game changing items EVER being put on the store.
I don't care if some idiot spends a billion isk on a virtual eye furniture. I DO care if some rich idiot spends a couple of hundred real world quid (which a sane person wouldn't do, they'll need it to buy a new graphic's card to replace the one that Incarna melted) getting a unique ship which is better than anything available in the game normally. It ruins the whole concept of the player driven sandbox.
I'll wait to see what the CSM meeting brings up. I hope we get the name of the idiot/idiots who thought of this idea. I bet it wasn't one of the dev's. It'll be a suit. And I've yet to meet a suit who I didn't trust.
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Luke S
Zeta Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:32:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Tsu Hak Edited by: Tsu Hak on 26/06/2011 19:01:43 TOO LATE CCP AND NOT ENOUGH
CCP Zulu already murdered 2 of my accounts by the crap he posts
RIP both
Annie *28.3.2007 to June 2011 and Ivy *26.12.2009 to June 2011
That's your own damn fault Tas hak. Dont blame CCP for your actions.
When I saw people say/do what you did, I was shocked you would make such of a harsh decision based on rumors and speculations.
Now go back to WoW and QQ like they do.
Originally by: Annie Anomie Better.
same. ---
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Sturmwolke
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:34:00 -
[846]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 26/06/2011 23:35:43 A bit better than the last inflammatory blog.
Whatever your reasons were to be irritated/miffed/angry about those leaks (I assume), reflect instead on the fundamental core reasons WHY it happened and the motivations that drove such acts. Look inwards instead of trying to lay blame. House CCP is in bedlam. You've overstretched yourselves and its effects isn't difficult to see - screw ups followed by screw ups ... some even predicted several months back.
Whether this latest blow up was intentional or unintentional, the EVE community does not have an inexhaustible goodwill nor patience. You're slowly eroding these precious commodities (which takes a lot of time to build). All these grief, monetary loss and muddied reputation to CCP could have been avoided had you pulled your heads from the clouds.
/me shakes his head in disgust and disbelief.
edit:clarity
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Estelle McDeal
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:37:00 -
[847]
Calling in CSM to Iceland to talk to our "representatives"?
I rofled so hard.
Did you talk to CSM about nullsec nerf?
Did you talk to CSM about your glorious NeX plans?
What do you consider better feedback then +300 pages on forums?
We don¦t need "representatives" that you ignored on any major change in the past.
CSM will not get you back the trust because of constantly nerfing our gameplay.
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:38:00 -
[848]
Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 26/06/2011 23:45:19 Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 26/06/2011 23:41:39 Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 26/06/2011 23:40:09 Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 26/06/2011 23:39:03 (didn't care to read through thread, just my opinion)
Quote: The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words.
Deeds, not words. Very simple: No interference into game mechanics beyond PLEX through any CCP store action. Please... Leave EVE Economy intact!
Quote:
However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
As one of the those who always thought CCP was special and lured players into this game: Guess where that "breach" originated from...
Quote:
I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
It does not sound ironic, it does sound SAD!
Quote: For that I am sorry.
And I feel sorry now, too. Because I see a great game dying instead of your:
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Yes, there has been a fantastic relationship between CCP and the playerbase. It vanished when you started to listen to (probably) business analysts and marketing strategists. I know it will be a strain to develop WoD and Dust and continue to develope and suppurt EVE. But do understand that the base of this MMO EVE is NOT your usual 14 years old. You will NOT be able to remodel it to a market for the "quick satisfaction fraction" teens!
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The base demand is fairly simple: NO goods except for VANITY goods (that meaning useless clothes for the ultra-rich only!) in that blasted over-priced NEX Store. I do not see the need for plane tickets and hotel costs.
Quote: The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Name your newsletter whatever you want. "Zealess", "Fearless"... Looking at the rest of the MMO industry, I would be surprised if you would NOT try to make such a step. EVE has always been special. It's community has always been special. Perhaps we are a breed on the brink of extcintion. But we can still kick and howl and ... post.. or drop our subscriptions. Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
Quote: Thank you for your patience,
You are welcome, but it is running thin...
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tika te
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:40:00 -
[849]
Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
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Menden Kahoudi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:40:00 -
[850]
I think everyone should take a deep breath and accept the fact that Eve will sell more than just vanity items. Eve will align with the business model of DUST and WoD.
The CSM will come back with reassurances (backed with similar presentations like the Battlefield Heroes presentation that appears in this thread a few times) that despite what forum posters are saying the people truly want this. *Shrugs* Who knows? Maybe they're right.
If you can't see this happening, I think you are in denial. Look at the other MMOs on the market. The subscription model is inefficient for what CCP needs.
"However, as a subscription based golden goose, EVE needs to incorporate the virtual goods sales model to allow for further revenue û revenue to fund our other titles, revenue for its developer: you." -Fearless, VOL 1 (and maybe last volume? lol) May 2010
They need money. They need you to give it to them. Greed is good.
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Luke S
Zeta Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:41:00 -
[851]
Originally by: Rhivre For those who think gold ammo just means gold ammo
World of tanks gold stuff
I like to add, that some of those tanks are s**t and the gold ammo burns your money faster. also you curse yourself if you used gold ammo and missed your target.
Some of them items aren't game changing too. It was built in during beta and balanced with the rest of the game, also note that there is still player skill involved. Having a gold tank don't mean you are better. ---
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:42:00 -
[852]
Well and that's all we get for today thanks for nothing... you say "information out of context isn't information at all" and we say "telling the truth but NOT the whole truth is the truth at all" also "giving a half assed answer is really an answer at all" You realize it almost been a week and seriously whether you guys do it or not WE KNOW you were testing the water to go back on your word on MT now that all this fuss has happened you are trying to figure out if you should just lie and say there will never be or tell the truth..... you want us to calm down CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT WHAT EVER UNDERHANDED SHADY MONEY GRABBING DOUBLE DIPPING MT YOU PROCLAIM TO KNOW WE WILL ACCEPT OVER TIME. then tell us there WILL NEVER be game changing items. don't be like there are no plans for gold pants i mean ammo... yeah you could be speaking literally and change the color to red and for the small price of 120 PLEX you can have ammo as powerful as a nuclear BOMB... you think we are stupid and have fun at your shady meeting hope the CSM comes outwith all the memories in tact... i hope that makes since i was typing kinda fast
º--Atreus--º
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Van Doren
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:43:00 -
[853]
Edited by: Van Doren on 26/06/2011 23:43:55 TO THE CSM: It was mentioned before but probably lost.
I want a Roadmap. A real roadmap. I sure don't want to be surprised by patches containing 1/10 of what an expansion is supposed to be (INCARNA) with patch notes the day before it goes up. Dates and/or timeframes even if they are not set in stones and more predictions will be better than nothing.
Given the various comments and info leaked all over the place, it seems that CCP barely knows what they will do next week. ANY programming company with that kind of messy way of working is DEAD or bound to be!
I want to see bug fixes sessions on that roadmap. In fact, I want MORE PATCHES that FIX STUFF. Not 1 patch per year with new stuff.
I don't care that there is a patch day per month as long as it is to fix stuff, not put irrelevant halfbaked new stuff.
FIXING CURRENT CONTENT > NEW CONTENT! As simple as that.
NEX Market - As everybody else: No frigging Pay2Win items... EVER!
This is EVE, I don't care about Dust, I don't care about WoD. CCP investments clearly are poorly managed as they are using their current revenues that seems to NOT BE high enough to support investing in the creation of DUST and WOD. Nobody cares about DUST and WOD except CCP at the moment.
Get Eve running smoothly and get partners for the other games that come with money instead of trying to invest your own limited revenues into it. A lot of company did the same error and failed. You're not special in this case.
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Blackjack Turner
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:43:00 -
[854]
CCP's alright, somebody check my brain. *********************************************************
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:44:00 -
[855]
Originally by: CCP Zulu However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
That's what we all wanted to hear :)
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Akira Zendragon
EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:46:00 -
[856]
Well this has certainly been a good step forward. I wish it was taken sooner and more decisively, but I'll go with a +1 to CCP Zulu nevertheless. Some good will was badly needed and this blog delivered some.
Tbh, I feel it could have been a bit more explicit on the pay-to-win issue. I see quite a bit of wiggle-room available that could still lead to p2w MTs, but I'll wait for the outcome of the CSM summit.
It's good to see some measure of respect and common sense by CCP showing through to the community by finally calling on CSM, and hopefully this time to actually listen to them and communicate effectively with them and with the community.
This CSM is certainly earning it's pay... oh wai...
To the CSM: Good work so far, hope you guys have a very productive summit this week and manage to fix this mess for good.
--- Akira Zendragon CCP: Please read this http://pastie.org/pastes/2118574 |
QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:49:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: CCP Zulu However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
That's what we all wanted to hear :)
Not really.
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Estelle McDeal
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:50:00 -
[858]
Edited by: Estelle McDeal on 26/06/2011 23:50:58
Originally by: Akira Zendragon Well this has certainly been a good step forward. I wish it was taken sooner and more decisively, but I'll go with a +1 to CCP Zulu nevertheless. Some good will was badly needed and this blog delivered some.
Tbh, I feel it could have been a bit more explicit on the pay-to-win issue. I see quite a bit of wiggle-room available that could still lead to p2w MTs, but I'll wait for the outcome of the CSM summit.
It's good to see some measure of respect and common sense by CCP showing through to the community by finally calling on CSM, and hopefully this time to actually listen to them and communicate effectively with them and with the community.
This CSM is certainly earning it's pay... oh wai...
To the CSM: Good work so far, hope you guys have a very productive summit this week and manage to fix this mess for good.
ROFL you also still believe in santa?
Go on hoping while they are planning on optimizing their revenue coz this is what it is all about.
They never gave a **** on CSM and this will not change.
Metrics > CSM
CSM = unimportant wannabes that can be used if s.h.it hits the fan but other then that they are merely puppets to CCP
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:51:00 -
[859]
Originally by: Menden Kahoudi I think everyone should take a deep breath and accept the fact that Eve will sell more than just vanity items. Eve will align with the business model of DUST and WoD.
The CSM will come back with reassurances (backed with similar presentations like the Battlefield Heroes presentation that appears in this thread a few times) that despite what forum posters are saying the people truly want this. *Shrugs* Who knows? Maybe they're right.
If you can't see this happening, I think you are in denial. Look at the other MMOs on the market. The subscription model is inefficient for what CCP needs.
"However, as a subscription based golden goose, EVE needs to incorporate the virtual goods sales model to allow for further revenue û revenue to fund our other titles, revenue for its developer: you." -Fearless, VOL 1 (and maybe last volume? lol) May 2010
They need money. They need you to give it to them. Greed is good.
Well said.
Lots olf folks in denial. Lots are running scared. Lots fear the unknown.
MT could be really good for Eve, people need to look past their own fear and embrace it.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:53:00 -
[860]
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
WTF??? is this tied to CCP at all? cuz if this is the mindset they have it doesnt matter what we say or do
º--Atreus--º
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:53:00 -
[861]
Oh, but of course you are free to invite me to Iceland for a chat that can be done via telephone conference... Or just here.
I have some overdue vacation days left and I am a business and technical analyst. (drunk version of both, right now, but not off the target.) ;)
Why not invite all of us?
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Karsa Egivand
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:01:00 -
[862]
I will add my voice to the others who have said:
Wait and see.
If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.
Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.
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Manos Heimenbarger
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 -
[863]
Originally by: Roosterton This is finally good to hear. Anyone who's nitpicking on the "golden ammo" wording is now just clamoring for attention and unwilling to drop the "ccp sucks" bandwagon.
This is not true. His statement deliberately leaves the possibility open. Notice how he said there were no *plans* for such a thing.
Now look at what CCP said one year ago.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7
" We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE."
I don't see how anybody can read this devblog and view the MT issue settled by any means.
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GRIEV3R
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 -
[864]
This is a step in the right direction, but still not enough.
As so many others have already said: The only way CCP is going to fix this perceived betrayal is to unequivocally state that there will never be non-vanity microtransactions in Eve Online. Anything less than an absolute statement such as that is insufficient; it means that the idea is still on the table. The idea *cannot* even be on the table. It is completely unacceptable. CCP as a company needs to make a statement to its customers promising absolute commitment to the integrity and quality of its product. Your very carefully worded statement about "gold ammo" falls short. I want a video statement from Hilmar. Please, go the distance to show us you're serious. None of us wants to see the end of Eve; it's the greatest game ever made. You can still fix it, but these half measures and inept attempts at damage control are making it worse not better.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 -
[865]
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
no seriously this link is it tied to CCP AT ALL if so how do you know?
º--Atreus--º
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 27/06/2011 00:03:39
(didn't care to read through thread, just my opinion)
Quote: The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words.
Deeds, not words. Very simple: No interference into game mechanics beyond PLEX - as they are - through any CCP store action. Please... Leave EVE Economy intact! Also: Your blog was insulting!
Quote:
However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
As one of the those who always thought CCP was special and lured players into this game: Guess where that "breach" originated from...
Quote:
I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
It does not sound ironic, it does sound SAD!
Quote: For that I am sorry.
And I feel sorry now, too. Because I see a great game dying despite of your:
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Yes, there has been a fantastic relationship between CCP and the playerbase. It vanished when you started to listen to (probably) business analysts and marketing strategists. I know it will be a strain to develop WoD and Dust and continue to develope and suppurt EVE. But do understand that the base of this MMO EVE is NOT your usual 14 years old. You will NOT be able to remodel it to a market for the "quick satisfaction fraction" teens!
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The base demand is fairly simple: NO goods except for VANITY goods (that meaning useless clothes for the ultra-rich only!) in that blasted over-priced NEX Store. I do not see the need for plane tickets and hotel costs.
Quote: The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Name your newsletter whatever you want. "Zealess", "Fearless"... Looking at the rest of the MMO industry, I would be surprised if you would NOT try to make such a step. EVE has always been special. It's community has always been special. Perhaps we are a breed on the brink of extcintion. But we can still kick and howl and ... post.. or drop our subscriptions.
Quote: Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
Meaning you want to buy time and limit the audience to impress with graphs, necessity etc ?
Quote: Thank you for your patience,
You are welcome, but it is running thin...
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Estelle McDeal
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Karsa Egivand I will add my voice to the others who have said:
Wait and see.
If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.
Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.
High-profile meeting?
Wake up dude. We are talking about the CSM that has been ignored on any major changes in the past.
We are not talking about an investors meeting.
No profile meeting would be the suitable term.
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Fennisair
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 -
[868]
A much better blog than the last and a step in the right direction towards mollifying your customers. I'll await the post-CSM-meeting outcomes with interest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If men make war in slavish obedience to rules, they will fail." ~ Ulysses S. Grant |
Al 007
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:07:00 -
[869]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Well I think your comparing Apples and Oranges here. Eve business model is subscription based NOT free-to-play. Don't get this wrong I'm against pay-to-win items but this presentation has no relevance for Eve. See it that way -> Battlefield 2 is a "need to buy" game and you need to unlock the additional weapons per class by gaming success. Cheating that results in a ban. CCP's problem is that they are not World of Warcraft with their 11M+ playerbase; there are approx 300k+ (??) players paying for Eve and most of them -like me- have multiple accounts. Which gives a single users a much bigger lever to pull on. Other thing is that Eve players a bit of a tight bonded bunch, which makes much harder for CCP to just get away with stuff like that. IF they continue with that course a some players will leave BUT there will be no bigger revenue for CCP. They have been so long on the market to have bigger success BUT they haven't. They are have created niche game and it will stay that way. Reason for that is that Eve is a rather complex game (Remember: Eve Learning Curve) and the time based skilling which is very unique within the MMORPG World.
And to CCP: say/do we watch
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Karsa Egivand
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:14:00 -
[870]
Originally by: Estelle McDeal
Originally by: Karsa Egivand I will add my voice to the others who have said:
Wait and see.
If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.
Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.
High-profile meeting?
Wake up dude. We are talking about the CSM that has been ignored on any major changes in the past.
We are not talking about an investors meeting.
No profile meeting would be the suitable term.
Its not high-profile because of who attends, but how it got to the meeting and what expectations are about the topic to be settled.
It would be the same high-profile thing if they said they would have a meeting in 3 days with their developers and board members and announce it afterwards.
If you dont think the meeting will be high-profile, just re-read the thread.
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Menden Kahoudi
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:16:00 -
[871]
All emotions aside and critically put:
Everyone posting in this thread is less than 2% of the player base. Eve will move forward with or without you. This PRODUCTION will move forward. The CROWD will be CONTROLLED. See what I did there?
Metrics > Forum opinions.
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:21:00 -
[872]
Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 27/06/2011 00:22:19 True enough and I agree.
Hard to tackle company strategy if on shiny papers investors have been convinced this is the way to go.
Still, if you do not at least voice your concerns - or in this case rage - you will not feel better facing the inevitable.
Actually CCP is selling what made them DIFFERENT from the rest. Bad move. They should have focused on it.
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QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers Situation: Normal
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:22:00 -
[873]
CCP, my one question to you is very simple.
Will this CSM meeting be broadcast on eve-tv?
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Zephy Russ
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:24:00 -
[874]
We've already scored a win, asking for more would be rather churlish. I'm personally putting down my pitchfork for the time being, and unlike many of you I trust that I'll not have to pick it back up again.
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Cosmoes
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:25:00 -
[875]
I used to think CCP was a company that existed to make games by making money I now think CCP is a company that exists to make money by making games
While addressing this issue taking a firm stance and making a decision will help fix the current issues in the community you need to fix the deeper issues with CCP and eve to prevent things like this from happening. This is about how you run your business, what your goals are and what you value, and communicating (pls improve your communication, it is horrible) them with your customers. ------------------- piccy |
Captain Macanudo
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:29:00 -
[876]
Originally by: Menden Kahoudi All emotions aside and critically put:
Everyone posting in this thread is less than 2% of the player base. Eve will move forward with or without you. This PRODUCTION will move forward. The CROWD will be CONTROLLED. See what I did there?
Metrics > Forum opinions.
+1
That's it.
Enough of desperate pleas such as "CCP, I want this", "CCP hear this", "CCP you can't do that" . It is pure childishness.
They (CCP) will opt for what is more advantageous and keep the EVE online.
I'm just wait for the next official statement as to whether I will or not stay in the game. If you agree or disagree with the decisions taken by them.
The whole thing is binary: yes or no, 1 or 0.
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:29:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Zephy Russ We've already scored a win, asking for more would be rather churlish. I'm personally putting down my pitchfork for the time being, and unlike many of you I trust that I'll not have to pick it back up again.
What win? Wake up, please. There are no answers. The logical reduction of the whole message is: "Sorry, we need more time to convince you. And we will invite CSM members so you guys can't complain."
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Azzma
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:32:00 -
[878]
Mittani for CEO of CCP who would've thought the goon leader is the 1 who can save this game
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SoltonGris
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:33:00 -
[879]
"There are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum"
Sorry but this just sounds like weasel words to me.
The words we need to hear from CCP are:
There will NEVER be ANY Non-Vanity MT items for sale in EVE.
Anything else does not make the grade, you have lost our trust and you now need to be very precise in your wording till you earn back that trust.
The second most important thing people seem to want to hear from you is that CQ will be changed so that you arrive in station hanger as normal and then have the option to enter CQ. (People want spinning in stations, not spin in dev blogs)
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Zephy Russ
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:34:00 -
[880]
I'm not in a dream to start with. They've made plans to have a meeting with the CSM, that's definitive evidence that we've affected them enough to either listen to the CSM or at least break out the big PR guns. I'm entirely content with them buying more time, especially since the big yellow question has been answered. I wouldn't say it's a perfect answer, but the spirit of the piece says no gameplay-affecting items, and that's a good start. Asking for more at this point would be silly, wait until after the meeting.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:35:00 -
[881]
CCP's Mindset" <--- This makes EVERYTHING CLEAR... we are watching what you do not what you say.... Expensive clothes at first.... and lowering the prices when they add game changing items.... SO if you watch this video YOU REALLY DONT NEED A DEV BLOG TO SEE WHATS GONNA HAPPEN... it all makes since... now we can calmly just sit back and watch it happen... THIS GUY IN THE VIDEO MAKES ME WANT TO PUNCH A BABY.... HOLY **** im listening to the end while writting this and he says pretty much the same thing ZULU did about pants but he used sports equipment.. OMG i am almost sure everyone at CCP watched this and bought into it... omg he ends it by saying the players accept it and then demand it... there really is nothing we can do... they are probably going to make CSM watch this video too ugh... EVE as we know it is dead because CCP is in fact being GREEDY.. and on the business end more revenue means they have a good game... btw the only ones who demand game changing items are the ones willing to buy them so they can have the best of the best **** even though that money could have been used on more important things... but honestly as i start thinking about it more and more... maybe it wont be so bad cuz some idiot goes and spends money on a ship weapons and fittings and then i blow him up and get his ****... well when it does happen I DEMAND P2W items drop from wreckage
º--Atreus--º
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Manos Heimenbarger
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:39:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Zephy Russ I'm not in a dream to start with. They've made plans to have a meeting with the CSM, that's definitive evidence that we've affected them enough to either listen to the CSM or at least break out the big PR guns. I'm entirely content with them buying more time, especially since the big yellow question has been answered. I wouldn't say it's a perfect answer, but the spirit of the piece says no gameplay-affecting items, and that's a good start. Asking for more at this point would be silly, wait until after the meeting.
Unfortunately it does not say no gameplay-affecting items. It says there are no plans for gameplay-affecting items. Look at what they said one year ago.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7
"We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE."
One year later, we have an microtransaction store.
I do not deny that this is progress, but it still fails to give me any real confidence.
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:40:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Zephy Russ I'm not in a dream to start with. They've made plans to have a meeting with the CSM, that's definitive evidence that we've affected them enough to either listen to the CSM or at least break out the big PR guns. I'm entirely content with them buying more time, especially since the big yellow question has been answered. I wouldn't say it's a perfect answer, but the spirit of the piece says no gameplay-affecting items, and that's a good start. Asking for more at this point would be silly, wait until after the meeting.
They have not made plans to listen to the CSM, they have made plans to appease us and limit the number of persons to impress. ;)
All the playerbase wants is a definite NO to game effecting items in the shop. Let people buy monocles there and shoot them, because they should have no depth-sight with em anymore.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:43:00 -
[884]
Hopefully the minutes of this emergency meeting will be as informative as the minutes from the May summit. Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about can someone link the May summit minutes for me?... Anyone?... Hello??
*cricket* *cricket* *cricket*
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:44:00 -
[885]
A subscription for the CMS guys to carry with them with all the names of players that will quit if and when game effecting items will enter the game might be very helpful, btw.
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Tyby
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:46:00 -
[886]
Quote: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say.
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Kern Hotha
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:49:00 -
[887]
Another worthless blog. Just hand this duty off to someone else, because you're not getting the job done. --- "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features." -Nathan Richardsson, Senior Producer at CCP |
RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:50:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Zephy Russ We've already scored a win, asking for more would be rather churlish. I'm personally putting down my pitchfork for the time being, and unlike many of you I trust that I'll not have to pick it back up again.
Im sorry but what are you smoking that distorts your brain this much?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:51:00 -
[889]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 27/06/2011 00:53:32
CCP Zulu, is that you?
I've been playing EVE for 2 years. Not much, perhaps, compared to the vets, but long enough not to just quit overnight. Like many other people, I suspect, I have not been looking for an excuse to leave, but for a reason to stay. And this blog of yours may very well be it.
Personally I don't care for vanity items. Sell 52 monocles, or 5,200, I don't care. And I would probably even buy a few clothes if they were prettier, and not priced so outrageously. Yet, to get to the point, all I foremost wanted was for CCP to take its customers seriously, and to grasp that P2W items, wide across the board, are a considered a big game-breaking no-no. It would appear the message has arrived. That is good enough for me, for now.
I hope you and the CSM have a fruitful meeting.
Thank you.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Shiv Undano
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:52:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Captain Macanudo
Originally by: Menden Kahoudi All emotions aside and critically put:
Everyone posting in this thread is less than 2% of the player base. Eve will move forward with or without you. This PRODUCTION will move forward. The CROWD will be CONTROLLED. See what I did there?
Metrics > Forum opinions.
+1
That's it.
Enough of desperate pleas such as "CCP, I want this", "CCP hear this", "CCP you can't do that" . It is pure childishness.
They (CCP) will opt for what is more advantageous and keep the EVE online.
I'm just wait for the next official statement as to whether I will or not stay in the game. If you agree or disagree with the decisions taken by them.
The whole thing is binary: yes or no, 1 or 0.
No, the whole thing is not binary. You analyze a TV show, you don't go for 100% of the viewer base either.
Anyway... What you say is: Shut up and do nothing.
I hope most people agree, it is not an healthy attitude.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:58:00 -
[891]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 00:58:46
MISSED THE POINT
Where is Hilmars Blog we asked for days ago?
The one that shows CCP isn't disconnected from reality and explains to us the TRUTH.
You think a staff members word means ****?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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HyperZerg
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:00:00 -
[892]
The difference between the presentation and EVE is: Eve got a subscribption fee. Also the playerbase of eve seem a little bit more active then the one of a shooter-based game [Less Chrun]. The active players complaining and spend more money right now, got more then 1 account. If you want to loose them, do it.
Sure, CCP just wants to make more money, they are a company. If they can achive it by destroying EVE as we know it, why not ? They only risk their playerbase.
But watch out, there are also many players out there, not active in the forums canceling their accounts, but you got the data anyway.
P.s. this devblog reminds me of the german Chancellor of the Confederation. Allways talking about a common solution, not a good one. The speeches sounds great but they are still empty.
I would love to see what happens if the CSM tells you to remove ALL MT out of Eve :P could be a VERY long week for them ;)
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:01:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:30:31
Originally by: Consortium Agent Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252
The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.
I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet.
I did not attack you personally and therefor there is no need to attack me personally, but since you have... I will return in kind.
You are a clueless drone. CCP didn't say anything of merit. Referring to 'gold ammo' as it might have applied to another game entirely and then extrapolating that it's code for 'anything non-vanity in the game' is a stretch even for your moronic brain. It's extrapolation. You could very easily be dead wrong as much as I could be dead wrong. WTF gives you the right to think your extrapolation is any better than mine? Until *I* get a clear answer 'No we will never, ever sell non-vanity items in Eve' then I'm going to firmly believe that they will. I know the history of this company and they have done nothing but lie to us and pander to our concerns with vague words that are still open to interpretation. Your interpretation happens to be 'we won!' - my interpretation happens to be 'they didn't answer the question'. Only time will tell which of us is right, eh? So sit down and STFU. You're no smarter than anyone else here and an ambiguous answer is an ambiguous answer I don't care how you or anyone else here tries to spin it.
You are a moron and I can't wait to see the look on your face when the CSM returns with bad news
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:01:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Zephy Russ We've already scored a win, asking for more would be rather churlish. I'm personally putting down my pitchfork for the time being, and unlike many of you I trust that I'll not have to pick it back up again.
Where's this "win"? Getting them to stop loudly proclaiming "F*ck you!" is a win now? They're still unable to state categorically that we will not see non-cosmetic items for Aurum even just in the next year. They still dance around the subject and use vague and noncommital terms and timeframes.
It's not a campaign for political office. We should be able to get some simple yes/no answers out of CCP. |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:02:00 -
[895]
All this posturing is just that, posturing. At the end of the day, if micro-transactions are in the game (at all!), there will be negative feedback.
This is not because of CCPs approach to MT, it's because I (and I vouch for most mmo vets) have NEVER seen MT improve the gameplay or experience of an mmo.
MT cheapens a game, and makes an mmo feel less like a virtual world and more like a cash shop.
Eve hides MT behind PLEX -> AUR, but this convoluted system will (obviously) increase demand for PLEX, which means if supply remains the same prices will rise. As PLEX rises more people will be tempted to drop $30 because they're getting more bang for their buck. This ofc means that the end result is we have more people paying real money to get ahead in the universe. This cheapens the game, and makes it much less immersive from my perspective.
CCP will end up making more cash off of MT, but at what cost? At the cost of the immense awe that a player feels as he joins a hostile, perpetual universe, that's my guess. MT chips away at what makes eve, eve.
MT for clothes is fine. Please stop it there.
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tika te
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:10:00 -
[896]
Edited by: tika te on 27/06/2011 01:12:09
Originally by: Atreus Venom
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
no seriously this link is it tied to CCP AT ALL if so how do you know?
well tbh, im not the first one wo put that link on the forums here.
however i'm living i the german city mentioned in that presentation (you remember those ppl that developed spellforce?) i sometimes see a friend of mine (working there) when playing texas hold'em..last time we actually talked about free2play games out there (league of legends is quite popular here) and he agrees that this bussines model ("pay20wn") is spreading like fire - investors and higer management get $$ signs in their eyes in the very same moment they notice it...
another thing worth noticing is about the monoclegate (insane nex prices)..there is a method called price anchoring...
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Madcow
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:15:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Madcow on 27/06/2011 01:15:34 Wow what a whining here in this post it is precisly what he says no game changing vanity items the no gold ammo. It was what most of the forum whiners where also calling it. And the monicle if you cant pay the billions of isk for it dont cry about it. ______________________ I am just a crazy cow |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:23:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Madcow he says no game changing vanity items the no gold ammo.
Where?
"game changing vanity item"? Oxymoron much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Menden Kahoudi
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:24:00 -
[899]
Predictable:
No one buys the vanity items, causing a revenue problem. This forces them to sell non-vanity items.
Some people buy vanity items, but it won't be enough revenue (Pro-tip: it is never enough). This forces them to sell non-vanity items.
Tons of people buy Quafe t-shirts or whatever and they MIGHT not sell non-vanity items.
That is how I see this shaking out.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:27:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Madcow Edited by: Madcow on 27/06/2011 01:15:34 Wow what a whining here in this post it is precisly what he says no game changing vanity items the no gold ammo. It was what most of the forum whiners where also calling it. And the monicle if you cant pay the billions of isk for it dont cry about it.
dude.. seriously... do you have brain damage u still dont get it... u probably havent watched the video that was just linked or read much of ANYTHING else in here.. and if you have... I am so sorry maybe in time your brain will function fully again... the new direction i predict isnt waiting on a response anymore its how do we stop them from doing it... cause
When they add the p2w items A) it will work.. they will make more money B) if the video is correct and unfortunately i think it is (im taking a real honest look at myself for this one and i probably wont quit and would buy some ****) God i hate myself C) everything happening in the forums is normal and they will move forward just like the leaked newsletter and the video BOTH said but other than that... i wonder.... u know what **** it... i dont know what to say anymore that video has seriously hit a nerve and i can actually SEE it happening now... ugh
º--Atreus--º
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Candente
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:29:00 -
[901]
meh so much bawwing in this thread it's not even funny.
I don't really see a problem in 'tone' from the last devblog, but rather 'logic'. I still laugh at relating "designer jeans" to the ridiculous high priced items in the Nex...
The CSM won't really tell CCP anything new other than "players don't want MT", which I am pretty sure CCP knows already, yet will not stop adding non-vanity items, be it sooner or later.
So in the end, it looks like:
1) It is going to happen, in term as non-vanity stuff get into the store. 2) People who don't like it hopefully will unsub and forum may become a bit more serene. 3) Hopefully CSM are realists and CCP realizes $70 monocle is a dumb price. It will be a good idea to consult CSM on a reasonable price range.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:29:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Goatse Girl Resubbed! much love CCP ZULU!
TO SOON! YOU HAVE RESUBBED TOO SOON, EXECUTUS! WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS ADORATION?
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Zephy Russ
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:30:00 -
[903]
I trust the devs and I'm not given to useless melodrama. I'm not being stupid, just rational. We aren't going to get any further until after the meeting anyway.
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Zief
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:30:00 -
[904]
Thank you for the update as well as the tone you gave it in. We all get angry and make mistakes, sometimes it's a hard thing to admit that and apologize.
I'm still worried about real world game changers being sold for Aurum, as well as CQ being more of a hinderance than fun, hardware heat issues, and the exorbitant prices in the Noble Exchange. BUT, I'm happy you've called a meeting and will will be content to wait to hear the fallout.
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Menden Kahoudi
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:33:00 -
[905]
$70 for a monocle is a perfect price. I think it had the exact effect they wanted.
Then when they offer it for $25 it will seem reasonable.
They've shown us how bad it could be, then they will show us how benevolent they are by making it only $25 dollars for a monocle or only $15 dollars for a headset with boom-mic etc.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:34:00 -
[906]
NOPE I CANT GIVE UP!!! OK im basing info off the video if we are 2% of the actual game community we need to alert people in an organized way IN GAME Ive already sent this msg to at least 20 or more ppl using eve mail.. im in jita and there are plenty of ppl there to send to.. HERE IS WHAT IVE SPREAD IN GAME
-PAY 2 WIN how to implement in game- http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
everything that's going on in the forums and here in game are part of CCP's plan it looks like. in the Dev Blog thread a video was linked that shows what CCP's strategy is or at least its matching it so far with pin point accuracy... honestly Ive been protesting too and now after watching the video im sick to my stomach and i kinda feel helpless. anyways the visuals in the video aren't important it just has random pictures so you can just listen while still playing...
just in case you dont know eves browser wont open videos...
PS if you think its important info pass it around seriously WE GOTTA COME UP WITH A NEW PLAN OF ACTION... and im not smart enough to think of anything we can do
º--Atreus--º
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:34:00 -
[907]
Originally by: Doc Fury That devblog was aimed at the Media and not so much the players. It's another PR piece, read it in that context and it will make more sense.
The language used was very carefully selected. CCP is playing the victim i.e. "breach of trust", while deflecting from the issue which is not "gold ammo" but PTW (non vanity) items being introduced.
As long as they seem to address one of a myriad of issues in Dev blogs they can claim have been "voiced" by the players they can keep playing this evasion game. At the same time they can claim they are listening to their players while dragging this out. This gives the PR and CM spin doctors more time do their thing. That's why players who care about the PTW stuff being added need to stay on track with only that topic, and not even talk about monocles or the vanity store item pricing which is irrelevant.
Yes we the players get that this is another PR stunt.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:40:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Atreus Venom NOPE I CANT GIVE UP!!! OK im basing info off the video if we are 2% of the actual game community we need to alert people in an organized way IN GAME Ive already sent this msg to at least 20 or more ppl using eve mail.. im in jita and there are plenty of ppl there to send to.. HERE IS WHAT IVE SPREAD IN GAME
-PAY 2 WIN how to implement in game- http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
everything that's going on in the forums and here in game are part of CCP's plan it looks like. in the Dev Blog thread a video was linked that shows what CCP's strategy is or at least its matching it so far with pin point accuracy... honestly Ive been protesting too and now after watching the video im sick to my stomach and i kinda feel helpless. anyways the visuals in the video aren't important it just has random pictures so you can just listen while still playing...
just in case you dont know eves browser wont open videos...
PS if you think its important info pass it around seriously WE GOTTA COME UP WITH A NEW PLAN OF ACTION... and im not smart enough to think of anything we can do
Don't bother with the ingame help channels either..... They mute you for mentioning the subject.
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Trigz04
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:42:00 -
[909]
I want to believe that "no gold ammo" means no non vanity items but I will be watching patiently before I let my hopes up.
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Thrinaga
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:45:00 -
[910]
I have nothing to add to this... discussion that has not already been, so instead I will give my opinion on the matter at hand: Give CCP time.
As was stated on a blog post located at http://tinyurl.com/65qmzb9 there are 3 commodities that are required for a community centered around an MMO to exist peacefully. Two of them have been lost, belief and trust, and not simply the players' trust in the developers at CCP. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that CCP is trying to do two things right now: Rebuild the trust the players used to have with them, to the best of their ability, and figure out how they can change and progress the future of EVE without running into such a large, angry, riotous backlash.
CCP Zulu has stated, in no uncertain terms mind you, that he has arranged an emergency meeting with the CSM a week from now in order to best discuss the situation at hand. Some of you are asking "Why doesn't CCP listen primarily to these forums instead?", to which I reply that the CSM is quite possibly the best avenue for them to do so. The CSM is chosen by the players, and it can be argued that the CSM holds the best interests of the game close at hand, because they love the game enough to participate in counseling the developers. The EVE forums are also a terrible avenue for this discussion regardless; There is no room or time for a proper "back & forth" discussion, and if one were to be had, it would either be done in private or would be interrupted by people ranting about the topic.
If CCP truly wants to meet with the CSM to discuss micro-transactions and the player base, then I will gladly let them. If CCP truly wants to restore the game to its former glory and awesome, which I sincerely believe they do, then both CCP and the CSM will walk away from their meeting pleased with the result. What I would like to see is two-fold: CCP gets to expand on their micro-transaction service, since it seems to me that they put a lot of money and effort on the table making this work, and the CSM will return with a legally (or, close enough to it as possible) binding document, signed by the head developers, announcing that there will be no NeX additions for 1-2 years, or perhaps even permanently, that will affect gameplay outside of the PLEX market, which based on how the NeX is structured to be an unavoidable consequence.
However, in order for this issue to be resolved calmly and peacefully, we, the players of EVE - whether we are ambivalent, furious, or somewhere in between - MUST allow this to happen calmly and peacefully. If that means this forum thread is locked, so be it. With any luck, that will not happen, and this thread will be open for continued debate. But, the more time we spend frothing in anger and posting expletive-filled ultimatums into this discussion, the less likely that the calm, collected, INTELLIGENT discussion the CSM is heading to Iceland for will not happen.
This has been the voice of reason, signing off.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:46:00 -
[911]
You have no "plans" to sell golden ammo. A year ago you had no "plans" for microtransactions. Now, you just have no credibility.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:57:00 -
[912]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Atreus Venom NOPE I CANT GIVE UP!!! OK im basing info off the video if we are 2% of the actual game community we need to alert people in an organized way IN GAME Ive already sent this msg to at least 20 or more ppl using eve mail.. im in jita and there are plenty of ppl there to send to.. HERE IS WHAT IVE SPREAD IN GAME
-PAY 2 WIN how to implement in game- http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
everything that's going on in the forums and here in game are part of CCP's plan it looks like. in the Dev Blog thread a video was linked that shows what CCP's strategy is or at least its matching it so far with pin point accuracy... honestly Ive been protesting too and now after watching the video im sick to my stomach and i kinda feel helpless. anyways the visuals in the video aren't important it just has random pictures so you can just listen while still playing...
just in case you dont know eves browser wont open videos...
PS if you think its important info pass it around seriously WE GOTTA COME UP WITH A NEW PLAN OF ACTION... and im not smart enough to think of anything we can do
Don't bother with the ingame help channels either..... They mute you for mentioning the subject.
yeah i think im permabanned from there
º--Atreus--º
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Atreus Venom
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:59:00 -
[913]
Originally by: Thrinaga I have nothing to add to this... discussion that has not already been, so instead I will give my opinion on the matter at hand: Give CCP time.
As was stated on a blog post located at http://tinyurl.com/65qmzb9 there are 3 commodities that are required for a community centered around an MMO to exist peacefully. Two of them have been lost, belief and trust, and not simply the players' trust in the developers at CCP. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that CCP is trying to do two things right now: Rebuild the trust the players used to have with them, to the best of their ability, and figure out how they can change and progress the future of EVE without running into such a large, angry, riotous backlash.
CCP Zulu has stated, in no uncertain terms mind you, that he has arranged an emergency meeting with the CSM a week from now in order to best discuss the situation at hand. Some of you are asking "Why doesn't CCP listen primarily to these forums instead?", to which I reply that the CSM is quite possibly the best avenue for them to do so. The CSM is chosen by the players, and it can be argued that the CSM holds the best interests of the game close at hand, because they love the game enough to participate in counseling the developers. The EVE forums are also a terrible avenue for this discussion regardless; There is no room or time for a proper "back & forth" discussion, and if one were to be had, it would either be done in private or would be interrupted by people ranting about the topic.
If CCP truly wants to meet with the CSM to discuss micro-transactions and the player base, then I will gladly let them. If CCP truly wants to restore the game to its former glory and awesome, which I sincerely believe they do, then both CCP and the CSM will walk away from their meeting pleased with the result. What I would like to see is two-fold: CCP gets to expand on their micro-transaction service, since it seems to me that they put a lot of money and effort on the table making this work, and the CSM will return with a legally (or, close enough to it as possible) binding document, signed by the head developers, announcing that there will be no NeX additions for 1-2 years, or perhaps even permanently, that will affect gameplay outside of the PLEX market, which based on how the NeX is structured to be an unavoidable consequence.
However, in order for this issue to be resolved calmly and peacefully, we, the players of EVE - whether we are ambivalent, furious, or somewhere in between - MUST allow this to happen calmly and peacefully. If that means this forum thread is locked, so be it. With any luck, that will not happen, and this thread will be open for continued debate. But, the more time we spend frothing in anger and posting expletive-filled ultimatums into this discussion, the less likely that the calm, collected, INTELLIGENT discussion the CSM is heading to Iceland for will not happen.
This has been the voice of reason, signing off.
have you seen the video... this is all part of the process... its going to work... unfortunately
º--Atreus--º
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Mr Rewrite
Amarr Dark Sun Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:01:00 -
[914]
Edited by: Mr Rewrite on 27/06/2011 02:02:19
This is a step in the right direction, too bad you have consistently crapped all over the supposed agreement to communicate and value the CSM input. I recall CSM leaving due to CCP failing to keep up their end of the claimed relationship. You've managed to use CSM as a false front, much like a political figurehead created to deflect attention and responsibility from the true plan an purpose for which the people would never support. Actions speak louder than words, keep up your end and the subscribers will stop having the dTja vu of Sony Online Entertainment's betrayal of the customers in Star Wars Galaxies. A game that made 3 horrid changes in a row without communicating them to the subscribers ahead of time and lost more than 40% of their customers within 2 months of the oft chronicled NGE. Since that debacle I've boycotted Sony to the point of only purchasing Bluray movies from Sony Pictures and Columbia. Pain is a powerful memory builder, think back to your parents smacking you @$$ and think before your next actions.
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Telven Stareal
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:07:00 -
[915]
The old saying... a dollar short and a day late comes to mind after reading this new blog.
Maybe this will be a learning exp for CCP. When your customers have questions/fears about a possible aspect of the game, address them as soon as you can.
But hey, there is another saying that comes to mind as well.... "better late, then never."
I am not planing on unsubbing because of any issue with the game as of right now. Can't see the future so no idea what might happen in a few months or longer. But, I am watching how they handle this. Because so far from a customer service stand point it isn't looking good..
I will hold out and see what happens.
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Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:11:00 -
[916]
Originally by: The Mittani This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.
Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.
I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.
We'll see how Reykjavik goes.
Knock some sense into them, please, even if you have to use physical force!
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Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:13:00 -
[917]
20 out of 30 pages, nothing but more whining, complaining, and word twisting.
Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
Now with that said, I'm in support of CCP, and will keep all my accounts subbed until CCP ever actually breaks a promise or does something wrong. I do not believe that CCP have done anything to lose our trust or faith in them. Those who are unsubscribing have made a very uninformed decision; however, I am not saddened by their departure. Someone who can rush to decisions like that, cursing CCP as they do it, is not someone I want to be playing with.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:15:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu 20 out of 30 pages, nothing but more whining, complaining, and word twisting.
Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
Now with that said, I'm in support of CCP, and will keep all my accounts subbed until CCP ever actually breaks a promise or does something wrong. I do not believe that CCP have done anything to lose our trust or faith in them. Those who are unsubscribing have made a very uninformed decision; however, I am not saddened by their departure. Someone who can rush to decisions like that, cursing CCP as they do it, is not someone I want to be playing with.
Too much kool-aid or paid well???? Which is it?
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.27 02:16:00 -
[919]
Very disappointing.
You failed to answer the question yet again:
"Will you be going beyond micro-transactions for vanity items only?"
And
It is obvious by omission that you actually planned on doing so (despite promising you'd never do this on previous occasion), so much so that you now need an "emergency" meeting with the CSM to 'discuss' this issue.
Otherwise, why would you require any "emergency" meeting unless you want to break your previously stated commitment.
This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example) and who you tend to ignore anyway according to past CSMs just so you can use the kop-out phrase "we consulted the CSM" to explain why you'll be screwing over the rest of us and doing exactly what you planned regardless.
I expect a full-on CCP charm offensive to try to coerce and cajole the CSMs on their 2nd free holiday to Iceland, then if that doesn't work... a lot of waving the threatening non-disclosure agreements if they don't yap like lap-dogs at whatever crap you try to pedal them.
If the CSM have any integrity they will absolutely refuse to budge on this game ruining issue and mass resign if/when CCP try to go beyond vanity MTs just to make it clear.
I fully expect them to fail in this though and come back using phrases like "We did our utmost BUT..." and "We have to be realistic about this..."
Death throes of a dying game.
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:19:00 -
[920]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:19:00
Originally by: Trigz04 I want to believe that "no gold ammo" means no non vanity items but I will be watching patiently before I let my hopes up.
A year?
They said there would be "NO MT AT ALL" the DAY BEFORE the patch ROFL!
edit: this is not about MT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
|
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:19:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu 20 out of 30 pages, nothing but more whining, complaining, and word twisting.
Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
Now with that said, I'm in support of CCP, and will keep all my accounts subbed until CCP ever actually breaks a promise or does something wrong. I do not believe that CCP have done anything to lose our trust or faith in them. Those who are unsubscribing have made a very uninformed decision; however, I am not saddened by their departure. Someone who can rush to decisions like that, cursing CCP as they do it, is not someone I want to be playing with.
How much did CCP pay you.
I want the number in monocles BTW.
|
Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:21:00 -
[922]
microtransactions in a subscription game! what more is there to talk about? f-ck csm. |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:24:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Wearfield microtransactions in a subscription game! what more is there to talk about? f-ck csm.
It's only a subscription game until we finish paying for WoD and DUST.
Then it will be F2P/P2W for the new 12yo audience who won't complain and won't demand.
They know "you can't have MT in subscription". It is only planned like that to milk us for cash-flow until they're finished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
chrss2129 Erata
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:25:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu 20 out of 30 pages, nothing but more whining, complaining, and word twisting.
Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
Now with that said, I'm in support of CCP, and will keep all my accounts subbed until CCP ever actually breaks a promise or does something wrong. I do not believe that CCP have done anything to lose our trust or faith in them. Those who are unsubscribing have made a very uninformed decision; however, I am not saddened by their departure. Someone who can rush to decisions like that, cursing CCP as they do it, is not someone I want to be playing with.
CCP Alt or Mindless sheep, you decide
|
Sarzadi
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:29:00 -
[925]
Originally by: chrss2129 Erata
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu 20 out of 30 pages, nothing but more whining, complaining, and word twisting.
Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
Now with that said, I'm in support of CCP, and will keep all my accounts subbed until CCP ever actually breaks a promise or does something wrong. I do not believe that CCP have done anything to lose our trust or faith in them. Those who are unsubscribing have made a very uninformed decision; however, I am not saddened by their departure. Someone who can rush to decisions like that, cursing CCP as they do it, is not someone I want to be playing with.
CCP Alt or Mindless sheep, you decide
I'm going with sheep'ish CCP alt.
|
Jazz Styles
Minmatar Sileo In Pacis
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:32:00 -
[926]
Here's a tip for virtual goods - they can't be unbalancing to the game as it stands now. You can make 'gold ammo', but it can't be better than what's already available. You can make it 'interesting', 'different', and 'desirable', but it can't be an I WIN button.
For example:
- Laser crystals that do kinetic damage.
- Missiles with ECCM that don't provoke defender missiles to destroy them (this is mostly for missions, but I assume you're going to fix defenders at some point).
- Unique ships with interesting bonuses; eg. An amarr battleship with drone and missile bonuses. Hell, you could make use of the ship models from that competition to flesh out a pool of premium ships that look spectacular.
So you've got plenty of wiggle room here I think!
|
Zephy Russ
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:33:00 -
[927]
Quote: This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example)
No pubbie voting, no pubbie representation.
I'm altogether willing to wait this one out and see how it goes.
|
Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:35:00 -
[928]
Edited by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu on 27/06/2011 02:36:32 *Puts hand on bible*
I swear that I am not an employee of, or affiliated with CCP.
I swear that I have not been paid by CCP to play the game or to post on the forums.
I swear that anybody who claims that I am affiliated with CCP, or have been paid by CCP, is nothing more than a forum troll.
*Takes hand off bible*
Better?
|
Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic Holy Empire of The Unshaven
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:37:00 -
[929]
Ok, where to start...... here we go:
CCP Zulu: "The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large."
Obviously not, you did that LAST time when you told us it was OUR responsibility to buy you more $1000 jeans with our subs AND MTs. Oh, btw, you STILL haven't explained why we should be paying BOTH.
CCP Zulu: "fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days."
Oh, I GET IT!!! YOU'RE the VICTIM here!!! NOT the people you are planning on financially raping. NIIICE. Of course, I thought TRANSPARENCY to the customers was something CCP was going TOWARDS, not AWAY from? I think we have finally reached a REMARKABLE level of transparency! I think we are FINALLY seeing the REAL CCP. Here's an idea! Why don't we make Fearless available for the customers to read all the time? I mean, why are CCP employee ideas more valid than ours? Or are you all just SPECIAL that way? You know, BETTER than us.
CCP Zulu: "For that I am sorry."
For that SPECIFIC thing and NOTHING else. Check. Got ya.
CCP Zulu: "strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship."
LIKE what you did there. This is THE strongest point of your piece. You are making the reader enter into an ASSUMPTION that there EVER was trust of you FROM the community and respect from you TO the community.
CCP Zulu: "Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week"
Calling in your highest paid fanbois to get your stories straight on how your going to spin this to the community. Check, and double check.
CCP Zulu: "The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."
Like what you did here too. With this simple statement you get the reader into the frame of mind that not only are BUTTLOADS of MT coming to Eve, YOU (the reader) have ALREADY agreed to it through proxy of the CSM.
CCP Zulu: "However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
No gold ammo then? So, Gold modules perhaps instead?
CCP Zulu: "In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue."
Outright deception, and an outright LIE. For anyone with half a brain, it is PLAIN to see that "the debate" and "discussion" (if there ever WAS any) starts and stops on page 7 of Fearless. The rest of the document, all the way through page 13 is talking about how MTs are GOING to be forced down our throats in ALL THREE of you current projects: Dust, WoD, AND Eve.
CCP Zulu: "Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM."
Yeah, we should all STFU, and let you recover so you can come up with some more convincing spin. Check.
CCP Zulu: "Thank you for your patience"
Again, you attempt to make the reader buy into something automatically that is and has never been true. Namely, that we have any or ever have had any patience for or with YOU.
Message to all others at CCP: You should really STOP having this A$$HAT talk for you. His credability is completely shot by his repeated lies.
Yeah, that about says it all. I am done wasteing my time on you Zulu. Somebody poke me when someone we might actually be able to take seriously from CCP open thier mouth.
/out *
* |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:39:00 -
[930]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39 Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
|
Zephy Russ
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:42:00 -
[931]
Edited by: Zephy Russ on 27/06/2011 02:43:04 You are incorrect in assuming that we never had any trust, respect and patience with the devs. As to the rest... meh, possibly.
They are going to have MT. That's a fact. They never said or implied that they will push ahead with non-vanity MT.
|
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:50:00 -
[932]
Cats know all and even they are wondering:
|
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:54:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39 Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo! ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Maul555
Amarr Reliables Inc BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:54:00 -
[934]
This thread has slowed to a crawl compared to the previous ones. This is a good sign that this Dev-blog has given the player base what they wanted in the beginning. I know it satisfied me for the most part. The only people still posting are the stragglers and a bunch of trolls...
The EVE Personality Test
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:55:00 -
[935]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39 Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
If they do that, they will wish that the Sony takeover rumors were truth. Hell after the resulting PR backlash not even Zygna would take them for a monocle.
So I will give them the benefit of doubt for the next week. I have till the 10th left to rage :)
Sandbox or Death! |
Sensual Blue
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:56:00 -
[936]
Edited by: Sensual Blue on 27/06/2011 02:57:32
The only thing I want to hear from CCP for EVE Online.
Never bonus items for real money.
For ever.
|
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:56:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote: This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example)
No pubbie voting, no pubbie representation.
I'm altogether willing to wait this one out and see how it goes.
And you guys somehow think Alliances wouldn't give a **** if their industrial segments had no meaning?
There's an unhealthy amount of cynicism going around. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
chrss2129 Erata
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:58:00 -
[938]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39 Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo!
Has CCP given a solid answer to the contrary?
Thought not
|
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:00:00 -
[939]
Originally by: chrss2129 Erata
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39 Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo!
Has CCP given a solid answer to the contrary?
Thought not
To you, perhaps.
Why don't you take the stance of Talsa: "So I will give them the benefit of doubt for the next week. I have till the 10th left to rage :)"
But of course even if you do get a 'solid answer', your type will just claim that it's all lies and slander anyway. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:04:00 -
[940]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:15:49
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo!
You're right, CCPs financial team of ruthless bankers doesn't like money.
edit:
Look around. There are already threads from people saying "I can accept this much.... but I want my items to mean something and give me actual benefits if I'm paying that much"
How long do you think CCP will hold against a threadnaught of "I want my monocle to give me a perception bonus!"?
Market. Demand.
CCP has been *very* clear on this point.
They will adjust MT based on player demand.
While the whole time driving the wedge deeper, until the market is ready to accept everything for pay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
|
Zephy Russ
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 -
[941]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote: This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example)
No pubbie voting, no pubbie representation.
I'm altogether willing to wait this one out and see how it goes.
And you guys somehow think Alliances wouldn't give a **** if their industrial segments had no meaning?
There's an unhealthy amount of cynicism going around.
Did I say that? All I said was that pubbies complaining about not getting a CSM rep have only themselves and their introspective carebear ways to blame.
I've done my part in the protesting, the ball is in CCP's court at the moment, there's little point in continuing to swing the raquet.
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 -
[942]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 27/06/2011 03:08:43
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.
It says "We are pushing ahead."
Quote: to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
Quote: agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve
"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."
Spot on.
Less than a week of virtual goods and there is a "strategy" requiring iteration no less - it would be great if other sections of the game shared this high level of after-care and 'iteration'.
PS - Slyphi got it spot on too. Your choice of wording makes your intentions transparent Zulu.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE......
Honest Guv! We had no plans for it but we are doing it anyw |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 -
[943]
I'm going to cite something: This is a CSM meeting. You people do realize that means CCP is footing the bill, on short notice, on intercontinental flights. If this was about greed, would they bother? Perhaps it is a 'delay tactic', but that's still a damn expensive tactic, even for a few monocles. I've flown intercontinental. It cost me $1k, and that was the cheapest I could find a couple months out. Within a week, for how many people?
What am I bothering typing this for, though. The people who this argument would be directed against are going to look at everything as deceit and deception, lies and slander, no matter what. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Helena Russell Makanen
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:07:00 -
[944]
+10 - this is prophetic. It is what I suspect will happen. Well said.
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Very disappointing.
You failed to answer the question yet again:
"Will you be going beyond micro-transactions for vanity items only?"
And
It is obvious by omission that you actually planned on doing so (despite promising you'd never do this on previous occasion), so much so that you now need an "emergency" meeting with the CSM to 'discuss' this issue.
Otherwise, why would you require any "emergency" meeting unless you want to break your previously stated commitment.
This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example) and who you tend to ignore anyway according to past CSMs just so you can use the kop-out phrase "we consulted the CSM" to explain why you'll be screwing over the rest of us and doing exactly what you planned regardless.
I expect a full-on CCP charm offensive to try to coerce and cajole the CSMs on their 2nd free holiday to Iceland, then if that doesn't work... a lot of waving the threatening non-disclosure agreements if they don't yap like lap-dogs at whatever crap you try to pedal them.
If the CSM have any integrity they will absolutely refuse to budge on this game ruining issue and mass resign if/when CCP try to go beyond vanity MTs just to make it clear.
I fully expect them to fail in this though and come back using phrases like "We did our utmost BUT..." and "We have to be realistic about this..."
Death throes of a dying game.
|
Mi Sing
Caldari Crusaders Transcendancy
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:07:00 -
[945]
CCP Zulu,
This is a better blog then your last one, in both tone and content. The idea of the meeting with the CSM is nothing but a stalling tactic, but I can also see the good side of a face to face meeting with them. They can look into your eyes and judge for themselves about what CCP is telling them. I do have a suggestion about the meetings though. Allow the CSM to comment in their own way, in either their own blogs, or on the forums, without ANY interference from you. No editing, no prior approval and most certainly no NDA directly related to this meeting.
Your wording of "no 'gold ammo'" is a poor choice, and leaves CCP open do what they wish, as long as there is no 'gold ammo'. I am choosing to think it is just that, poorly worded, not telling the truth without telling the true meaning. If you come out with a statement about non-vanity MT, it needs to be very precise, without twisting words and meanings open. And it also need to be from Hilmar, since he is the only one that can not be overridden later. The CSM must be able to confirm both the statement, and the meaning.
Right now, we are, to paraphrase Hilmar, watching what you do, not what you say. The ball is in your court. If you go back on your word to us again, I fear that there will be some more rage in the forums. But that will be short lived and followed by the sound of crickets as we just leave in disgust. The next move is yours and we are waiting.
|
Goodluvins
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:09:00 -
[946]
Fvck you idiots. I mean....seriously? lols. "hey guys, I know we said we have no plans for MT in eve a year ago, but let me assure you, we have no plans for gold ammo." General Poster: Herp. Go CSM, im sure glad to see your lips wrapped tightly around CCP's lovebone in acknowledging that who knows what the future holds, but I bet you'll really get our views acrossed unskewed. General Poster 2: How do I remove a monocole from an anus?
If you love this game, say "Fvck these polesmokers" by unsubbing and STAYING that way unless they come outright and give a clear, written agreement on NO MT OTHER THAN VANITY.
|
Narf Commandude
Minmatar Gladiators of Rage Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:09:00 -
[947]
Thank you for the apology
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:10:00 -
[948]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:11:06
Originally by: Mi Sing And it also need to be from Hilmar
and signed by his overlords the bankers who tell him exactly what he can and can't do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
Helena Russell Makanen
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:12:00 -
[949]
This made me laugh and today I didn't think anything related to Eve would. CSM to Iceland = Public Relations stall tactic... so they gain 10 days or so of not saying anything at all because it might taint 'our huge historic meeting with the fabulous CSM' lol. 2 accounts out. Am sick of this. Am just surprised the CSM is going for it and participating in this joke.
Originally by: Marlona Sky Hopefully the minutes of this emergency meeting will be as informative as the minutes from the May summit. Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about can someone link the May summit minutes for me?... Anyone?... Hello??
*cricket* *cricket* *cricket*
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:17:00 -
[950]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 27/06/2011 03:21:08
I'm sorry to say that, but you're as clueless as you were back in 2008 answering players questions as CCP Zulupark.
CCP Greyscale is no better btw - see my sig.
Have you sacked all the sane people out there who can actually communicate and get the game developed according to its old solid principles? ---
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:25:00 -
[951]
As long as we can continue to take small steps here and there and not dig the hole any deeper we can eventually dig our way out of this crisis.
I accept the blog and will wait for the results of the meeting with CSM.
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DoctorMolotov
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:25:00 -
[952]
What you do, not what you say.
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Garwill
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:27:00 -
[953]
Originally by: Zachstar
I accept the blog and will wait for the results of the meeting with CSM.
Headless lemming.
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Sarahphim KTS
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:29:00 -
[954]
So your primary response is that you won't respond...
Players: WTF? CCP why won't you communicate with us? CCP: We aren't going to discuss this for another week and then we MIGHT talk to those of you bound by NDA. Cry moar tears, please. Players: CCP: Move along here people, nothing to see here. Move along.
Sounds like more great PR from CCP. Did Zulu and Pann work for the Bush Administration before they came to CCP?
I'm not going to unsub or anything, but it would be nice if you would answer our ligitimate questions with real answers. I've been through this in another game and I know that cash stores aren't the end of the world and can actually benefit the game, but you are botching it horribly. I do want to see CCP succeed and I do want to see Eve continue but alienating the player base by refusing to communicate isn't the way.
Sarahphim KTS
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Sollunux
Gallente Dawn's Requiem
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:31:00 -
[955]
After reading through all the comments I feel there is a point that was missed though I'm putting this here a bit late.
CCP is a corporation. As such, they will do whatever they determine will yield them more money. There is nothing else to it. As long as it stands that introduction of game changing items for money will cause them to lose money they will not do it.
I personally feel that the protests and uproar are good. It serves to point out that the above requirement is true and further more points out that they are on a fine line that people feel is too close, so they can understand what will happen if they go any further.
So for now, I'm not worried about them making the game changing items and as for the vanity items, they are way too over priced, but prices can be adjusted for demand, just like everything else in EvE.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:34:00 -
[956]
u a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR??? That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:34:00 -
[957]
I see, CCP need time. :DDDDD But...
Dear CCP Zulu, CCP why need to speak to CSM for change monocles price ? :D
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 -
[958]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:36:39 Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:36:25
Originally by: Sarahphim KTS CCP: We aren't going to discuss this for another week and then we MIGHT talk to those of you bound by NDA. Cry moar tears, please.
NDA should be nullified for this meeting.
Can see it getting to a point where CSM says "CFO... I could go leak this now and your position would only IMPROVE!" The bankers are so far from human that they'll just make more threats.
edit: transparency and honesty, might, doubtfully have some hope of saving their ass. They don't understand the value of honesty though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Ulmon Aulen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 -
[959]
Much much better. I'm still skeptical, but definitely a step in the right direction. As long as the outcome of the meeting with the CSM is no MT outside vanity items, consider me completely satisfied.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 -
[960]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh I'm going to cite something: This is a CSM meeting. You people do realize that means CCP is footing the bill, on short notice, on intercontinental flights. If this was about greed, would they bother? Perhaps it is a 'delay tactic', but that's still a damn expensive tactic, even for a few monocles. I've flown intercontinental. It cost me $1k, and that was the cheapest I could find a couple months out. Within a week, for how many people?
What am I bothering typing this for, though. The people who this argument would be directed against are going to look at everything as deceit and deception, lies and slander, no matter what.
Flying round trip Icelandic Air from Boston will run about.... 20 monocles.
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Crystal UK
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:38:00 -
[961]
Originally by: Algathas I will keep my accounts unsubbed while I wait for a real answer.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:40:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk u a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR???
lol
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.
lololololol
u be trippin or trollin?
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Photon Ceray
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:45:00 -
[963]
Zulu, you think you're smart?
"we have no plans of selling gold ammo", I bet you have never had plans of selling rubber ammo either, and no platinum tires and 1 gazillion specific items.
How about trying to be fraking honest for once?
Nobody is asking you to lie and say there have "never" been plans to do that, there WERE plans so don't try to lie about it, just say:
NO NON-VANITY ITEMS FOR MONEY from now on!
Don't mess with the customers, they have way more power than you.
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Zephy Russ
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:50:00 -
[964]
What he said was "gold ammo" in quotation marks. That does not denote a specific item, at the very least it refers to premium ammo full stop and likely refers to more than that.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.27 03:59:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR??? That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.
The following would be more clear:
Quote: "We are telling our customers here and now, without equivocation, that we will never sell non-vanity, game-affecting goods or services in EVE online through micro transactions."
or:
Quote: "We have no intention to sell non-vanity or game-affecting goods and services. However, we reserve the right to be responsive to market demands as well as financial realities, and change our position on this in the future so we're free to produce the best possible game we can in EVE Online.
Because we sympathize with our players' concerns and understand that they require some assurance on this front, we are announcing a moratorium on non-vanity microtransactions for a period X months/years. In addition, the community has our word that should we change our stance regarding MTs for game-affecting items change, we will immediately announce this to the community, and give at least X months notice to our customers before any non-vanity MT-purchasable items go live on Tranquility."
See, "practically" isn't good enough. CCP has changed its plans in the past and will do so in the future. It may even fully intend to enter the realm of non-vanity MT and simply hasn't laid out a formal plan to do so. So Zulu's post is too ambiguous, providing a lot of room for interpretation and equivocation. I would like to see something a lot more concrete, substantive and (if necessary) candid.
If you haven't noticed, trust in CCP isn't exactly at an all-time high right now. It's not the time for them to get fancy metaphors and loose with their language in their PR.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:03:00 -
[966]
They already know they would lose their entire veteran / core player base if they sold gold ammo or changed their strategies.
I wouldnt be suprised if they started this fiasco to get huge player reaction to dictate policy from here on out.
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Klezmer
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:06:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
As snide as it may be to use your words against you, this pretty much sums it up for me at this time. You have proven consistently incapable of either honesty or to give a straight answer. Which takes me straight to post number two from Don...
Originally by: Don Pellegrino It's extremely disappointing that CCP is unable to repeat its promise that was made to the CSM one year ago. How hard is it to simply say: "There will never be non-vanity microtransactions"?
That's all we want.
Finally... my own thoughts. This might be a waste of my time since despite promises in CCP Pann's thread that all posts would be considered and fed back on (mine was only on page 9 so I know Manifest read at least that far), I'm quite sure you didn't bother and your promises again became a load of hot air. My faith in your ability to give a damn about the players is at an all time low.
I wrote this with FHC in mind and not CCP but tense aside, it all applies and I hope to god someone relevant at least sees this, or gets the message.
Regardless...
Incompetent handling of the roll-out of incarna WIS is OK if only a cosmetic waste of time lol monocles but no PTW thanks Make stuff optional, play it down, give ship spinny, fast docking hangers back Don't **** up the economy/industry thanks PTW with a subscription is a disaster Don't be greedy ****s
We now have the beginnings of 'walking in stations' and in addition to spaceships we have player characters. With this comes the opportunity for a bit of cosmetic personalisation, and MT for clothing is theoretically perfectly fine, optional and non game breaking.
Then we have the way of doing things. WIS frankly wouldn't be such an objectionable thing if CCP didn't make such a massive fuss over it and appear to have it's development take priority over the core game (spaceships and the shooting of things) and then on launch... 1. Have only a single room, and then even worse 2. Only have the Minmatar quarters. 3. Forcibly dump you into this and remove (some of) the functionality of the old station hanger while forcing a resource load even if you are just docking up for ammo. Of course lets not forget old promises that WIS would always be optional. OK so it currently IS temporarily optional. What does that mean for us that opt out? A low res brown sludgy image which appears to be CCP telling us to GTFO, or taken literally, showing us the door. Not to gripe TOO much about it but Jesus Christ who on earth thought that was a suitable place-holder image to greet people upon docking? Worse, it's not intuitive how clone jumping etc works because you are both 'out of your ship' and yet have a ship active at the same time. If you have WIS off you have a brown door rather than a simple indication of what ship you are in. It's disorientating, clunky and CCP ought to be embarrassed at how this whole forced to quarters has been implemented. While people are laughing in disbelief about $80 monocles, I believe this is at the hearts of many of the playerbase. That or I'm projecting my own vision of Eve on others.
Let's face it... people miss ship spinning partly as a joke, but also partly because they actually DO spend considerable time simply sitting about in a station browsing the market, planning ops, firing off manufacturing jobs or quite frankly using eve as a glorified chat room. Being able to fart about in stations with your customised avatar shouldn't be so objectionable, it's pretty cool in theory to mingle with others. I've always thought character based MMO's look clunky and weird when you have a few hundred people stood about with speech bubbles everywhere but that's just me. Obviously they are popular for a reason. I gripe like a boss about the fact that you can't do anything of consequence in 'standing in quarters' but there's not exactly anything constructive to spinning a ship either. but. it. should. be... optional.
Continues...
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Klezmer
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:06:00 -
[968]
So, had CCP had rolled this out with a bit less "It's going to be amazing" and a bit more, "here's the beginnings, leave your hanger and go check it out from time to time guys" I'm pretty sure we could have avoided 50 odd pages of rage threads in Eve General, never-mind a large amount of the 300+ pages of PANN's apology thread.
I don't give a **** if a monocle costs $85. I do care if I have to start shelling out additional for lets say the equivalent of using faction ammo over standard. Plus the fact that it skips the player made economy, even if when it comes to me im just paying isk for it same as any other purchase. I actually care that the economy in Eve is the way it is.
As far as the different business models go. FTP games like WOT where a bit of a cash injection gets you cosmetic gain (shiny hanger), eased grind (more XP and 'gold') but ALSO some fancier ammo (If I recall it's not so much better that it really is MANDATORY). I've played that game a fair bit and it's a blast and I couldn't give a damn if they start trying to milk the players a little harder with more PTW features because on joining I accept the fact it is a PTW game.
With Eve... Christ, I've played the beta and finally have been playing since 2005. It's a subscription game, and one I'm heavily 'invested' in. I would never have imagined they would try to inject PTW on top of this and it doesn't make any sense. It literally ****s on the, as Don says, 'complex economy'. Spaceships aside, the economy is the one thing in Eve that just works so inexplicably well that trying to play about with it to the extent CCP thinks they can (reverse alchemy spaceships from thin air) plus the things in their 'internal debate newsletter' like PTW items is... the whole thing is just a disaster. Watching them remove features and then suggest adding them for a charge is also ****ing me off TBH (ship fittings).
As I said, it makes no sense. I have no idea about their true financial state but it's entirely possible they have stretched themselves too far and it looks to me like some suits at CCP have just seen other games charging for stuff and decided they want in on that too with no idea of how it's going to fit with Eve as it is now.
Thank you.
Lady Spank.
~
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Flawliss
Gallente Pilots of True Potential
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:08:00 -
[969]
I think For the current EVE online P2W suffers in part because it was developed and has been, a subscription game, also its in game economy faces huge issues with with non-produced items. and its also a different type of game in its time consuming training and many other factors. By starting with the intention of Free to play with a shop, you have set particular expectations advantages or not. Eve Online set different expectations in 2003. And those expectations are being violated.
Understanding of this seems to be ignored, coupled with unfinished additions, feelings of being disregarded by developers at player concerns and promises of this type of platform never being added to EVE online, CCP shouldn't be so surprised.
Feeling betrayed should be the least of the feelings CCP employees should be worried about, especially taking it out on players through either Dev blogs or silence on the forums. Perhaps the numbers look bleak, as players may not be resubbing back into the game as they once did before, but with all the issues and released then untouched systems lying around in the game, CCP shouldnt be surprised by that. Any game full of half fulfilled promises and broken systems should expect that. You should expect that.
But to then throw in a shop on top of a Subscription to fix this theoretical problem is not going to boost your customers confidence that any of the above problems will be fixed.
For myself, 0.0 was fun, but the issues with POS, SOV and changing and breaking Cap ships, along with many ship systems and modules being ineffective even in their "optimum" window of use is discouraging. Faction Warfare is full of promises never delivered, and rotting in space, likely never to be touched again.
Devils advocate memo or not, it shouldn't be even in the conversation if you insist on a monthly Sub fee. Coupled with the dis-respect contained in Memos, emails and Dev Blogs, why then should the player base respect your words, however hallow they have come off recently, when many past promises have rung hollow aswell.
My desire has always been to play EVE Online, my desire now is to play a game run by people with some integrity in their dealings with the people they do business with, thus far, i find CCP lacking in integrity, not only in recent actions, but words and promises in the past.
I look forward to a day when CCP regains their integrity and really does put effort and honesty in their dealings with a universe of people that was once amazing, and is now in a sad state.
From all that has happened especially recently, i have reservations they ever will.
Flawliss
Wish you all well.
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Algathas
Minmatar The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:09:00 -
[970]
No plans for gold ammo. Of course this makes sense. Gold prices have skyrocketed such that the cost to make the ammo would be too great. Pixel ammo is dirt cheap for CCP to make and they can sell it for near the price of real gold ammo.
"[i]We have spais in their base. Our propaganda machine is much larger and stronger than theirs We have better organizational capabilities |
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Lord o'Darkness
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:11:00 -
[971]
Edited by: Lord o''Darkness on 27/06/2011 04:17:04
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
There is one huge difference between Battlefield: Heroes and EVE, EVE is a subscription based game. Let us use the information in the video to compare the two games. The subscription gives CCP a monthly ARPU of somewhere between $10.95 and $14.99 (technically up $17.50 if everyone was buying plex directly, but I imagine that, in reality, it is a low percentage of the player-base which does this). In Battlefield: Heroes the lifetime ARPU is somewhere around $2.20 according to the presentation. Players in Battlefield: Heroes are paying much less than EVE players.
As John Turbefield said, introducing Pay2Win in EVE would make the players feel they are being "double-billed". Not only does Pay2Win not put everyone on equal footing and give wealthier players advantages, but in a game where players are already being charged a subscription, it is unreasonable to charge for game-affecting items. The two systems cannot exist at the same time without being felt as unfair to the player-base (In my opinion a subscription model is more fair to players as it gives no party an advantage for having wealth). Furthermore, converting EVE entirely to Pay2Win would most likely decrease CCP's revenue, see how Battlefield: Heroes gives a lifetime ARPU of $2.20 and an Eve player generates a monthly ARPU several times higher for CCP. I personally have no qualms with vanity cash shop items, but adding in game-affecting items is going a step too far. In my opinion, the best course of action for CCP to take would be to keep the NeX store, but limit it to vanity items only; if players want to spend money to make their Avatars look better, that is their choice.
We have yet to see if CCP will introduce game-affecting items, but from CCP Zulu's last blog, it sounds to me as if they are not going to (at least at this time). After this meeting with the CSM, CCP will hopefully give us a clear answer about whether or not they will be introducing non-vanity NeX store items. As of now, we are stuck with having to put a little of our faith in CCP, even though they have been less than transparent with information. CCP has made this game great for over 8 years and will hopefully continue to do so. Without product development, the game will become outdated as with any software. I can only hope that CCP will continue take it in the right direction.
Edit: TL;DR: Pay2Win + a subscription is a bad idea, and a subscription model is almost certain to make CCP more money than a F2P model.
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Algathas
Minmatar The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:18:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness Edited by: Lord o''Darkness on 27/06/2011 04:17:04
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
There is one huge difference between Battlefield: Heroes and EVE, EVE is a subscription based game. Let us use the information in the video to compare the two games. The subscription gives CCP a monthly ARPU of somewhere between $10.95 and $14.99 (technically up $17.50 if everyone was buying plex directly, but I imagine that, in reality, it is a low percentage of the player-base which does this). In Battlefield: Heroes the lifetime ARPU is somewhere around $2.20 according to the presentation. Players in Battlefield: Heroes are paying much less than EVE players.
As John Turbefield said, introducing Pay2Win in EVE would make the players feel they are being "double-billed". Not only does Pay2Win not put everyone on equal footing and give wealthier players advantages, but in a game where players are already being charged a subscription, it is unreasonable to charge for game-affecting items. The two systems cannot exist at the same time without being felt as unfair to the player-base (In my opinion a subscription model is more fair to players as it gives no party an advantage for having wealth). Furthermore, converting EVE entirely to Pay2Win would most likely decrease CCP's revenue, see how Battlefield: Heroes gives a lifetime ARPU of $2.20 and an Eve player generates a monthly ARPU several times higher for CCP. I personally have no qualms with vanity cash shop items, but adding in game-affecting items is going a step too far. In my opinion, the best course of action for CCP to take would be to keep the NeX store, but limit it to vanity items only; if players want to spend money to make their Avatars look better, that is their choice.
We have yet to see if CCP will introduce game-affecting items, but from CCP Zulu's last blog, it sounds to me as if they are not going to (at least at this time). After this meeting with the CSM, CCP will hopefully give us a clear answer about whether or not they will be introducing non-vanity NeX store items. As of now, we are stuck with having to put a little of our faith in CCP, even though they have been less than transparent with information. CCP has made this game great for over 8 years and will hopefully continue to do so. Without product development, the game will become outdated as with any software. I can only hope that CCP will continue take it in the right direction.
Edit: TL;DR: Pay2Win + a subscription is a bad idea, and a subscription model is almost certain to make CCP more money than a F2P model.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"[i]We have spais in their base. Our propaganda machine is much larger and stronger than theirs We have better organizational capabilities |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:21:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness stuff.
Eve only remains a subscription game as long as we're dumb enough to pay it.
Soon as the transition is complete it goes F2P/P2W and development gets a lot easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Tiny Mongo
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:25:00 -
[974]
Nice read, thank you for clarifying Zulu.
To those that say they said no MT ever - show me that dev blog - I seem to remember no MT for sp/remaps.
Also, for those that say "what you do, not what you say" considering everything that can possibly happen is "words" you will never get action just inaction i.e. no better than already available mods/ships. So to you all I say is "lol"
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:26:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Tiny Mongo Nice read, thank you for clarifying Zulu.
Hi Hilmar!
pssst. Create an avatar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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VaL Iscariot
Caldari Natural Selection.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:27:00 -
[976]
as so many have said before, I'll watch what you do, not what you say. Until the smoke has settled on this situation, I will remain unsubscribed. July 21st should be more then enough time to act on any plans you make with the CSM. I hope for the very best from you, CCP. EVE Online is an exciting game and one that I have come to enjoy above all others. The community at large and group of players that I've chosen to fly with have become a second virtual family to me. Don't let me down CCP. Don't let me down.
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Callisto Ares
Companion Cube Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:28:00 -
[977]
Edited by: Callisto Ares on 27/06/2011 04:32:55
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
Very good info in that presentation and exactly what the consultants CCP hired would have been telling them along with research on the price points to hit with the "microtransaction" items they'd be listing in the NeX store to achieve the best return per sale.
It should be noted however, that presentation did show that the engaged active players that participated on the forum account for 10x more revenue per player than the non-forum players.
This still doesn't change the fact that Battlefield heroes was engineered from the ground up as a game built for micro transactions, and had no monthly fee.
Eve-Online was never designed and has no structure or to support that type of activity within a player driven environment. You can't monetize Eve like that without ruining the game itself. |
Balthazar Tsero
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:30:00 -
[978]
Okay my 2 cents. First if CCP is looking to expand their new offerings let us see a valid representation of the goods they plan on selling not trying to sneak it in gradually. Second it seems like CQ is just a testbed for their other games. This is EVE your flagship offering dont try to pawn off testing your new games on us and then be like 'look at the new toys'. I have no objection to CQ but again the WAY you introduced this content has damaged your credability THIS is what we want you to explain.
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Lord o'Darkness
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:30:00 -
[979]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness stuff.
Eve only remains a subscription game as long as we're dumb enough to pay it.
Soon as the transition is complete it goes F2P/P2W and development gets a lot easier.
If you actually read what I wrote, you would notice that I am saying that a subscription model would make CCP more money than a F2P model. CCP would be smarter to keep EVE on a subscription model, even if the player-base grew larger, lets say 3-4 times the current size, the ARPU would be drastically lower and CCP would be making less money overall. I do not see how less revenue would ease development.
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Devils Errand
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:33:00 -
[980]
screw p2w/MT. Just raise the subscription rates some percentage. If you were dedicated enough to buy a year in advance, your golden. if you go month to month, then you bear a burden, and maybe you'll opt for a longer commitment, which then puts more stable income into CCP's coffers. I would also push up plex prices.
If they need more income to front the other projects, then stick with the model they have in place and increase it. don't move the goal post and just confuse the way the game is structured.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:35:00 -
[981]
I think one of the biggest things CCP seems to forget is how important single players can be in this game.
I've seen a lot of corps fall apart when the CEO or main FC decided to leave. Eve is a sandbox and if you are in it to PVP, the game content can be driven by a few key players. If these key players start to leave, the game experience as a whole diminishes.
Losing a subscription from mission runner johnny in high-sec isn't going to cause eve any problems. Losing alliance leaders, CEO's, directors and most importantly FC's is going to result in a reduced game experience universe wide.
In the P2P model being touted in this thread...you could lose millions of players and those remaining could still have a similar game experience day to day. In Eve, you lose a SINGLE key player and 3000 people have to move their stuff back to empire.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:40:00 -
[982]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 04:40:42
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness If you actually read what I wrote, you would notice that I am saying that a subscription model would make CCP more money than a F2P model. CCP would be smarter to keep EVE on a subscription model, even if the player-base grew larger, lets say 3-4 times the current size, the ARPU would be drastically lower and CCP would be making less money overall. I do not see how less revenue would ease development.
I do actually agree with you, just making a point that there is no conflict between P2W and subscriptions because will go F2P in future once we've been milked.
The thing I see from a dev perspective is F2P is a LOT less work and attracts less demanding customers. Thus more margin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Lord o'Darkness
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:42:00 -
[983]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith I think one of the biggest things CCP seems to forget is how important single players can be in this game.
I've seen a lot of corps fall apart when the CEO or main FC decided to leave. Eve is a sandbox and if you are in it to PVP, the game content can be driven by a few key players. If these key players start to leave, the game experience as a whole diminishes.
Losing a subscription from mission runner johnny in high-sec isn't going to cause eve any problems. Losing alliance leaders, CEO's, directors and most importantly FC's is going to result in a reduced game experience universe wide.
In the P2P model being touted in this thread...you could lose millions of players and those remaining could still have a similar game experience day to day. In Eve, you lose a SINGLE key player and 3000 people have to move their stuff back to empire.
In addition to the diminished game experience, the players who were in a corporation/alliance that fell apart are much more likely to leave the game.
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MyjoHe
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:44:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
This. +1 Good post that says it all.
Waiting to see what happens before resubbing my main.
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Lord o'Darkness
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:48:00 -
[985]
Edited by: Lord o''Darkness on 27/06/2011 04:48:31
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 04:40:42
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness
I do actually agree with you, just making a point that there is no conflict between P2W and subscriptions because will go F2P in future once we've been milked.
The thing I see from a dev perspective is F2P is a LOT less work and attracts less demanding customers. Thus more margin.
I misunderstood your post, I apologize. In terms of CCP milking us for cash, I believe that they would lose more revenue from players leaving than they would gain if they made EVE Pay2Win. However, I am equally concerned with CCP attempting this strategy to get more revenue in the short term to fund their other projects. I am just optimistically putting a small bit of faith in CCP that they will not mess EVE up entirely.
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Monstress
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:01:00 -
[986]
Ugh, this still isn't a straight answer. Best of luck to the CSM, hope you guys can smack some sense into CCP.
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Nac MacFeegle
Argyll Manufacturing
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:03:00 -
[987]
CCP, don't think for even a moment that by kicking the can down the road that you'll buy any time.
I'm still angry, and I'm still waiting for concrete actions.
-- WARNING: Poster has probably been drinking. Proceed with caution.
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Ein Spiegel
Minmatar Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:08:00 -
[988]
Edited by: Ein Spiegel on 27/06/2011 05:13:23 Zulu,
I appreciate your apology. I understand frustration (from a different line of work, in which it is not uncommon for the "you suck" responses to far outnumber the "thank you for doing a good job"), but it's something that should never influence your public-facing demeanor. CCP put a lot into Incarna, and we took this baby and then **** on it. But, honestly, a mother always thinks they have a beautiful baby, and the internal messaging that seems to suggest that Incarna is beautiful, wonderful, and working smoothly seems to ignore some very real issues with it. (Resource intensive on client, NeX pricing, and my own personal issue - what's up with the hair? It seems to be graphically a step down from what we see in the Carbon technology trailer. Heck, I think the SWG avatars were prettier. (That's the only SWG reference. I promise.))
I understand the frustration, I do. But the communications externally in wake of the leaks, they could have been better. Answering the primary complaint brought about by the leaks in the very first blog would have been better. Heck, if the internal policy all along has been "we will not, and have not, been contemplating introducing 'gold ammo' into Eve Online" I just don't understand the internal gag. Each and every developer at CCP could have posted a one line reply in the threadnaught simply saying "No, we aren't doing gold ammo or RMT for game affecting goods/services" (if they wanted to post). You would have done two things that way... calmed the angry player base, and also helped calm internal fears that maybe that was the direction coming from on high among your own employees. Continuing the silence until after meeting the CSM also isn't comforting - not commenting on specifics, yes, I understand. But letting employees reiterate the "no gold ammo" message would be good, and allow them to start probing the lesser sources of concern - ie, why does my ATI card temperature jump up 4 degrees immediately and why does CQ add 40% more memory usage?
I understand also you're upset about people leaking internal stuff to the internet. But you should also realize that your employees, and your players, also love Eve. If they're so upset that they are willing to risk their employment with CCP, working on something they love, by leaking internal information to the players, you need to (as a company) do some internal review at the highest levels. Not to discover "how could this happen", not to "prevent this from happening again", but to determine "what is our direction and why is this making the ground floor employees upset"? As a company, CCP could perform an internal witch hunt to find the source of the leak, and decide that high level decisions must be made more secret to prevent a potential leak from having information that would be damaging, but that only treats a symptom and not the underlying problem. Internal messaging should be clear, and be something that even if you published it to your player base, would clearly show "omg, that will be cool" and not "dear god, what are you doing?" Internal information is exactly that... internal. But that doesn't mean that at some point, it may be subject to disclosure - and CCP as a company should assess how such disclosure may cause perceptions to change, and be ready to meet that with a strategy of engagement, not silence. Silence is always more fearful than engagement, in a PR context.
Anyways, Arnar, you have a lot of work to do on this, with the CSM's help, and hopefully Pann can assist you once her daughter has fully recovered. Seeing where you started (tester), and where you are now, 5 years later, remember that help is good. You must be something to get where you are so fast, but your PR under stress seems a bit iffy. Grow through it, and let's see some solid awesome in future dev blogs.
(yadda yadda, account status dependent on actions, yadda yadda)
(edit: fixing d'oh typo)
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Ianus
Caldari Geminus Gateway
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:08:00 -
[989]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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CAAN0N
URBAN CHA0S WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:11:00 -
[990]
Haven't read the thread yet but has anyone yet considered the fact that CCP might be inviting the CSM to Iceland to go all snuff film on there asses? Careful guys could be a TARP!
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Raz Xym
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:16:00 -
[991]
Originally by: Zephy Russ What he said was "gold ammo" in quotation marks. That does not denote a specific item, at the very least it refers to premium ammo full stop and likely refers to more than that.
So a sompany that is claiming to be misunderstood, has days and days to determine EXACTLY what they want to say, with no misconceptions and this guys writes "gold ammo". Some people will truly believe anything, and probably buy anything. Sorry Zulu, you are failing hard. We know what is coming.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:19:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness I believe that they would lose more revenue from players leaving than they would gain if they made EVE Pay2Win.
They're bankers. They think different to humans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Alexis Sachs
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:20:00 -
[993]
So I read that again. Slower this time. A bit less sleepy than the first time I read it.
And I think even less of it now than I did initially.
Apologizing for the tone was nice. I liked that. Maybe I'm an ass, but frankly an apology was needed.
But once again... What does that sentence mean? I'm a bit of a semantic jerk - it doesn't read as making any sense to me. If trying to achieve clarity was the goal, I'm afraid to say it failed on that score. It should have said either "no - never!" or "sorry, but yeah, pay to win is coming." I want the answer to be no, never. I can accept that the answer could be yes, it's coming. But I need to know. I need to know so I can determine if I will continue playing or not.
My other issue is this idea that we need to tell the CSM any other issues we players may want addressed. First, we have. Second, they knew it anyway. Most importantly though - are you serious?! Nearly 400 pages of threadnarok and no one at CCP knows that we have other issues (while not as serious perhaps as pay to win, they're still damned serious!)? And you know what, of course they know. I'd have been much happier to have seen a line akin to "and we will also be discussing some of your other concerns with the CSM such as performance, yadda yadda yadda." Just seems like... Really? You don't really know what we're thinking?
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vasuul
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:32:00 -
[994]
Edited by: vasuul on 27/06/2011 05:42:56 heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold
http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/
http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions
http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions
http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html
http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html
http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382
http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees
http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505
http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&
http://massively.joystiq.com/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121
AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask
WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO "SAY IT AINT SO JOE " answer us please I hope you don't fill our sandbox with concrete Seriously we are passionate cause we love this game and would hate to see it die if you need more cash raise subs a few dollars and in turn give us some new missions im sure no one would complain if you were honest and said look our production costa are going up and we need to generate a bit more revenue as such rates for playing are going to 19.95 and the AUR well it was a bad idea we will just seed these non vanity items on the market or put em in the lp store
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:48:00 -
[995]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness I believe that they would lose more revenue from players leaving than they would gain if they made EVE Pay2Win.
They're bankers. They think different to humans.
They're called Banksters. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:58:00 -
[996]
Originally by: Aineko Macx
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness I believe that they would lose more revenue from players leaving than they would gain if they made EVE Pay2Win.
They're bankers. They think different to humans.
They're called Banksters.
Nice one! I like new words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:32:00 -
[997]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/06/2011 06:33:17
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Aineko Macx They're called Banksters.
Nice one! I like new words.
that word was already in use (in the US) during the Great Depression...
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Garwain Goodhue
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:35:00 -
[998]
Disingenious and mealy mouthed, that's how I take this latest post.
They know all the issues and do not need CSMs to explain it to them.
"Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy."
As if our concerns are not real. There must be something else at the heart of it! People's GPUs frying out are not a real problem!
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Sandunina
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:38:00 -
[999]
My dear players,
as you may finally realize, in the real world it is all about real money. Prizes for PLEX did scy rocket with sanctums, meaning there have been to much demand and no enough offer for them to keep them down. Basically we don¦t care for the prize of PLEX as long as people buy enough of them which started to fail by sanctums as the common Joe had enough ISK at hands to pay for gameplay with PLEX instead of RL money. We fixed that by removing sanctums for the vast majority of players. We didn¦t care about "your gameplay" or the fact that we destroyed lots of new alliances. We didn¦t care about less pvp and lots of nullsec wastelands. We didn¦t care about 100+ pages of rage on forums. Remember? It is all about real money.
Now we introduce even more mechanics to grab your money by introducing a new currency. Did we expect a termoil? Of course we did. We were just not yet ready to deal with this propperly as it was not intended to leak at this time. We planned to introduce this slowly and it kinda worked until some more informations leaked that we never wanted you to know at this time. But remember? It is still about real money.
Our concern is now that it is easier and much cheaper to keep people in the game than to acquire new players. Therefore we need one thing more than anything else atm: TIME! In our desperate effort to buy us time, we remembered some guys, we have totally ignored for a long time. CSM. They have been nice cosmetics for us but we never intended to really listen to them. Remeber? It is all about real money and they are not giving us a lot of it. Still they are handy when it comes down to make the playerbase calm down. Our offer for parley on forums backfired on us. So now we offer a parley to CSM. We even pay their transportation to Iceland. Therefore we show that we care otherwise we wouldn¦t pay costy flights. Right?
Well did I already mention that it is all about real money? The cost of their flights are peanuts compared to a very chance that after all we did in recent time, a considerable amount of players could leave? To get me right: We don¦t care for them and we don¦t even care that they would leave BUT if we can only make them stay for one or two months longer, then this will overcompensate any flight costs for any useless talks by far.
There is something we didn¦t mention yet: We thought about selling EvE to Sony. Let¦s be precise on that. It is not that WE thought about it but our investors -bankers- brought up the idea for their shortterm revenue. But the price is highly dependant on active subscriptions. The thing is, that WE didn¦t make the deal yet and WE are even not a happy bride in this investors driven marriage.
So these "leaked" documents are are not as much as painful for US as you may think. Still we need to generate more revenue to avoid a marriage WE don¦t want to have. You see the problem that WE cannot discuss in public? It is all about real money and how to get it from you while you even don¦t realize how it works.
Solutions? Non vanity items will be sold. There is no way around it. All we can do is calm down people via CSM. Don¦t be too harsh if you find out, that we lie once we say that there is no "gold ammo". It is not a complete lie. The ammo will be more redish.
Cheers CCP Spy
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OMGWTFResearch
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:46:00 -
[1000]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh I'm going to cite something: This is a CSM meeting. You people do realize that means CCP is footing the bill, on short notice, on intercontinental flights. If this was about greed, would they bother? Perhaps it is a 'delay tactic', but that's still a damn expensive tactic, even for a few monocles. I've flown intercontinental. It cost me $1k, and that was the cheapest I could find a couple months out. Within a week, for how many people?
What am I bothering typing this for, though. The people who this argument would be directed against are going to look at everything as deceit and deception, lies and slander, no matter what.
I was going to ask if this was really true but it would be insane if that wasn't the case. CSM members going on a 1k flight from their pocket on short notice would be another threadnaught.
I agree if CCP wanted this as a delay tactic it is a DAMMMMMMN expensive one.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:47:00 -
[1001]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus. The internal communication says otherwise.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions. Yes they did.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins. Unknown at this point. In fact, in its current incarnation, the NeX can't even do that.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion)
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness. No, it introduces more than that ù read the spread after the pro/con.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
So your "facts" aren't all that factual in some key areasà ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Elina Tan
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:55:00 -
[1002]
Originally by: Garwain Goodhue Disingenious and mealy mouthed, that's how I take this latest post.
They know all the issues and do not need CSMs to explain it to them.
"Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy."
As if our concerns are not real.
Cut 'em some slack, will ya? Of course CCP aren't going to debate the matter with each and every individual posting here -- and even in my angriest hour I wasn't expecting them to. The CSM officially speaks for the EVE players, that's just how it works, and it's a fair arrangement. And since the CSM has made clear, on several occasions, to be eminently aware of the real issues, doh, you can safely take off your tinfoil hat now. :)
Do I fully trust CCP again? Not really, no; but I trust that the message finally got thru to them: either because of the bad publicity, or because of what we wrote here -- it doesn't matter, really.
Where CCP will take EVE in the future, only they know (and maybe not even that). I trust in the CSM enough, though, to let CCP know in which direction we, the people, don't want to see EVE go. And should the outcome of it all be that CCP goes ahead with pay-to-win items regardless, then I'll trust the CSM to communicate that bad new to us as well.
So, nothing left for me than to just sit back a week and wait what word returns from Iceland. It's going to be an interesting set of meetings, at least, of that I'm sure. :)
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Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.27 06:59:00 -
[1003]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 27/06/2011 06:59:57
Originally by: Sandunina My dear players,
bla bla bla...
Cheers CCP Spy
There is no merger between CCP and Sony, this has been confirmed. CCP will not Sell NON-Vanity items, Read the latest blog AGAIN.
Overall made up speculative bull**** all round.
Wait till the CSM summit is done and listen to what they have to say. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
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Casey Roy
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:02:00 -
[1004]
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason says:
Quote: Rabble rabble rabble wonk wonk wonk blah blah blah
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Vallah Hanaya
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:04:00 -
[1005]
Hey Zulu, thanks ffor the new blog. glad you're calling out the csM and are working to fix this debocale. But no goold ammo wasn't the wors I was looking to hear. gold ammo isn't gold ships or gold inplants. I don't think the community will rest until the words "AUR WILL NOT GO BEYOND VANITY ITEMS" is written in a blog.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:08:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/06/2011 06:33:17
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Aineko Macx They're called Banksters.
Nice one! I like new words.
that word was already in use (in the US) during the Great Depression...
New to me :-)
Where is Jade Constantine?
Need a new lexicon!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:11:00 -
[1007]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 26/06/2011 19:03:53 Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 26/06/2011 18:46:23 It's extremely disappointing that CCP is unable to repeat its promise that was made to the CSM one year ago. How hard is it to simply say: "There will never be non-vanity microtransactions"?
That's all we want.
-----
Originally by: devblog there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo"
Please allow me to not belive you at all. In a part of the newsletter called "Delivering the goods: Virtual sales in Incarna",
Originally by: newsletter Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright.
They keyword is WILL. It's not "might" or "we are considering". It reads like a done deal. So allow me to call bull**** on "never have been plans to sell gold ammo".
-----
Also, "There HAVE BEEN no plans" does not mean "There WILL NOT be plans".
-----
Once again, Please repeat after me: "There will never be non-vanity MT's in Eve Online".
That's all we want you to say and you still refuse to do it. Saying that little sentence will restore the confidence, because that devblog just looks like some poor attempt at damage control. The devblog says nothing, it's totally empty.
This.
Also:
Originally by: Dark Jita what you do, not what you say
--------------------- Unsubbed. |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:11:00 -
[1008]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 07:13:26
Originally by: Hyperforce99
There is no merger between CCP and Sony, this has been confirmed. CCP will not Sell NON-Vanity items, Read the latest blog AGAIN.
lol, ok I'll just believe you instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE
edit: you an alt of Hyperdallas?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:23:00 -
[1009]
tl;dr of this thread: You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst. Nothing more. EVERY games developer does that. Every single one. These are used to throw ideas into the room, and get a discussion going. Not more, not less.
DICE probably had a newsletter concerning MT for Battlefield 3, or Massive Entertainment for buying gold tanks for WIC.
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Lamthara Lachesis
Amarr NeoCorteX Industry Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:28:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Lord o'Darkness Edited by: Lord o''Darkness on 27/06/2011 04:17:04
Originally by: tika te Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28 they dont care. face it. pay2win or "how winbutton works.."
There is one huge difference between Battlefield: Heroes and EVE, EVE is a subscription based game. Let us use the information in the video to compare the two games. The subscription gives CCP a monthly ARPU of somewhere between $10.95 and $14.99 (technically up $17.50 if everyone was buying plex directly, but I imagine that, in reality, it is a low percentage of the player-base which does this). In Battlefield: Heroes the lifetime ARPU is somewhere around $2.20 according to the presentation. Players in Battlefield: Heroes are paying much less than EVE players.
As John Turbefield said, introducing Pay2Win in EVE would make the players feel they are being "double-billed". Not only does Pay2Win not put everyone on equal footing and give wealthier players advantages, but in a game where players are already being charged a subscription, it is unreasonable to charge for game-affecting items. The two systems cannot exist at the same time without being felt as unfair to the player-base (In my opinion a subscription model is more fair to players as it gives no party an advantage for having wealth). Furthermore, converting EVE entirely to Pay2Win would most likely decrease CCP's revenue, see how Battlefield: Heroes gives a lifetime ARPU of $2.20 and an Eve player generates a monthly ARPU several times higher for CCP. I personally have no qualms with vanity cash shop items, but adding in game-affecting items is going a step too far. In my opinion, the best course of action for CCP to take would be to keep the NeX store, but limit it to vanity items only; if players want to spend money to make their Avatars look better, that is their choice.
We have yet to see if CCP will introduce game-affecting items, but from CCP Zulu's last blog, it sounds to me as if they are not going to (at least at this time). After this meeting with the CSM, CCP will hopefully give us a clear answer about whether or not they will be introducing non-vanity NeX store items. As of now, we are stuck with having to put a little of our faith in CCP, even though they have been less than transparent with information. CCP has made this game great for over 8 years and will hopefully continue to do so. Without product development, the game will become outdated as with any software. I can only hope that CCP will continue take it in the right direction.
Edit: TL;DR: Pay2Win + a subscription is a bad idea, and a subscription model is almost certain to make CCP more money than a F2P model.
^ this!
Every model has its own pro's and con's and every model can be accepted. What can't be accepted is merge them to create a new hybrid paying system where the customer has to pay to login in (subscription) and then pay again to play on pair with the others (micro-transaction).
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Casey Roy
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:31:00 -
[1011]
Edited by: Casey Roy on 27/06/2011 07:31:44
Originally by: DuKackBoon Edited by: DuKackBoon on 27/06/2011 07:27:12 tl;dr of this thread: You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst. Nothing more. EVERY games developer does that. Every single one. These are used to throw ideas into the room, and get a discussion going. Not more, not less.
DICE probably had a newsletter concerning MT for Battlefield 3, or Massive Entertainment for buying gold tanks for WIC.
EDIT: I did such a news-letter about a different topic for the 5-man team I had behind my CnC3 mod a while ago...
Exactly and the Fearless newsletter was a discussion catalyst for implementing MT for exclusive gamechanging content. It was not "if we should do mt for gamechanging content." It was a HOW TO and WHAT.
Quote: Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:31:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: DuKackBoon
tl;dr of this thread: You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst. Nothing more.
And discussion they had.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:36:00 -
[1013]
Originally by: DuKackBoon You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst.
You completely ignore the weight of collaboratory evidence and CCPs omission of not being able to answer without self incrimination.
or the fact the CSM has been recalled to Iceland to work out a NEW plan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Lidia Prince
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:37:00 -
[1014]
Interesting step, I like.
Are we talking about whole CSM? Will UAxDeath and Mittani participate? I love those guys.
You hate changes? CCP have gone too far?
Then support PvP players! Send all ISK to Lidia Prince and biomass your character now! |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:41:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: DuKackBoon tl;dr of this thread: You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst.
ôSpecifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
[à]
One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings.ö
Doesn't sound particularly catalytic or like a discussionà ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:47:00 -
[1016]
Hey Tippa, wd on that brief.
I didn't really go through it in detail but at a glance it looks like you managed to avoid "pet issues".
Every other brief like that has been pushed while people didn't agree with it. Was the cause of Hilmar learning not to trust the communities word I think.
Still don't think a document raised in a mob is a good starting point for changes but you did very well to capture the issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Crystal Cornelious
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:50:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: DuKackBoon tl;dr of this thread: You completely ignore the fact that the newsletter was a ****ing discussion catalyst.
ôSpecifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
[à]
One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings.ö
Doesn't sound particularly catalytic or like a discussionà
Catalytic or not, MT works. Battlefield: Heroes is a perfect example that people are willing to pay to get an 'edge' over other players. MT has been in EVE for years already with the enhanced PLEX system, aren't many of the EVE players using this system to get more ISK?
The only thing I see right now, is people getting mad, because with MT their 50m+ SP character won't be as powerful as it was before, simply because it can be beaten by a player with half that amount of SP but a better, exclusive to NeX, ship.
For years, there's been a debate that "SP means nothing, it's about player skill" so if SP don't matter, why all the fuzz?
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:52:00 -
[1018]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus I didn't really go through it in detail but at a glance it looks like you managed to avoid "pet issues".
Nahà My pet issue of the disastrous Mac patch and the abject testing failure that went into is in thereà ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 07:54:00 -
[1019]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 07:56:21
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus I didn't really go through it in detail but at a glance it looks like you managed to avoid "pet issues".
Nahà My pet issue of the disastrous Mac patch and the abject testing failure that went into is in thereà
Bugs are fine :-)
It's when people start screaming about nerf/buff of their fav ship in the middle of more pressing issues.
edit: I really can't remember the specific issue but some doc got implemented word for word when Noah and half the community knew it was game breaking. Another case of missing the issue amongst the noise.... Like "oh it's the price people are upset about".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Casey Roy
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:00:00 -
[1020]
Originally by: Crystal Cornelious
Catalytic or not, MT works.
There are MMOs where it works well and MMOs where it doesn't. There are very financially successful and profitable MMOs, where, when given a choice, many players opt for a subscription shard instead of a F2P MT shard when both are available. Since Eve is a single shard/server experience, we don't have a choice of going to a non MT server. CCP will have to decide if losing X number of players due to implementing MT based skills, items, and standings is worth it. |
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Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:12:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: CCP Zulu However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.
These "breaches of trust" are our liveline for information that you declined to give. These men and women who gave us that information and "breached your trust" are our heroes.
It is you that betrayed us, those at CCP that still stand with us are in the right and frankly should be the ones we should be talking to and hilmar should be listening to. ------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:13:00 -
[1022]
Too late. I've cancelled my subscription and will at the very least be taking an extended break from Eve. I'm so disgusted with the door, muddy indistinguishable smudges for new turret icons that can't be seen next to locked targets in the darkness of space, MT, WIS to further MT, etc, that I need to get away for a while, if not forever. We shall see. -- Frog blast the vent core! |
Aelantia Chipri
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:15:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2011 07:13:35
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu Facts / Simple Opinions: - Current NeXus items are really high-end items, there will be cheaper items in the future. (I'd expect a price cut though.)
- CCP does not have any plans to implement "Pay to Win" items in the NeXus. The internal communication says otherwise.
- Their past promise was that the items they introduce would not affect game play or game mechanics.
- They never said Eve would not have Micro-Transanctions. Yes they did.
- DUST 514 and World of Darkness will use Vanity and Non-Vanity Micro-Transactions almost exclusively.
- Any Ship/Modules/Ammunition implemented on the NeXus will be in the form of BPOs/BPCs or direct trade-ins. Unknown at this point. In fact, in its current incarnation, the NeX can't even do that.
- The only "ship" they have PLANS to implement is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, which is just a STANDARD Scorpion with a fancy paint job. (Scorpion + AUR = Ishukone Watch Scorpion) Not known at this point. The only ship they have revealed for implementation is the IW Scorp, but "revealed" and "planned" are two different things.
- The Internal Newsletter 'Fearless' only introduces EXAGGERATED opposing viewpoints for the sole purpose of a Micro-Transaction debate. Seeing as how they are using MTs in DUST and WoD, this debate is necessary. That newletter holds no promises to implement or not to implement anything in EVE, DUST, or World of Darkness. No, it introduces more than that ù read the spread after the pro/con.
- The supposed e-mail from Hilmar, seems to only have been written to encourage CCP's employees. There will be negative responses to any major change, and hurtful words will be thrown around. The message in his email was to focus more on what is happening and why people are upset, than to focus on the hurtful words.
- A CCP employee, investor, or someone with relations with CCP, had to leak both the newsletter and email. I am more worried about what other information they have access to, than the information contained in the document / email they leaked. Is there any risk that my account information has been compromised?
So your "facts" aren't all that factual in some key areasà
So, the words "hypothetical debate" mean nothing to you? Everything that a company says is to be taken as 100% true and applies to everything they've ever done and ever will do for the rest of time?
Here's a reality check for you: Business changes, and companies either change with it, or get lost in time. Do you honestly think CCP predicted the extent to which micro-transactions would be present in gaming? Do you honestly think that, because someone said "We don't plan to do X" a year ago, they're not allowed to change their mind later? Granted, I'd probably quit EVE if NeX ever started selling premium modules/ammo/ships, but they've stated less than 2 days ago that there were no plans to introduce premium, more effective items to the Noble Exchange.
Notice the difference in the timescale: 2 days, versus 365 days. I dare say the former carries a bit more clout for the time being, at least until the CSM returns from their emergency session. Of course, since you're one of the mindless anti-CCP drones this thread is filled with, you're just going to attempt to rebut everything I've said.
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Gonad Vulva
The Amen Brotherhood
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:22:00 -
[1024]
If they really aren't introducing non-vanity items and want to make it up with us, they should show Nex stores burning on the TV screens in our captain's quarters. They could implement a special mission where the aim is to destroy the Nex warehouses and kill the chairman, who tries to escape in a giant monocle ship.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:22:00 -
[1025]
Originally by: Aelantia Chipri So, the words "hypothetical debate" mean nothing to you?
ôSpecifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
[à]
One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings.ö
Apart from that last bit about faction standings, it doesn't sound particularly hypothetical, nor is it written in the form of a debate.
Quote: Do you honestly think that, because someone said "We don't plan to do X" a year ago, they're not allowed to change their mind later?
I think that, if a developer of a subscription-based game is going to change their mind and go back on a promise they made not to introduce non-vanity MT, they need to communicate this very clearly, very early, with their subscribers. Notice "communicate with", which is different than "tell to." ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Aelantia Chipri
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:26:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Aelantia Chipri So, the words "hypothetical debate" mean nothing to you?
ôSpecifically, how will this new strategy unfold in Incarna?
In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing CaptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details.
[à]
One other service weÆre looking at is selling faction standings.ö
Apart from that last bit about faction standings, it doesn't sound particularly hypothetical, nor is it written in the form of a debate.
Quote: Do you honestly think that, because someone said "We don't plan to do X" a year ago, they're not allowed to change their mind later?
I think that, if a developer of a subscription-based game is going to change their mind and go back on a promise they made not to introduce non-vanity MT, they need to communicate this very clearly, very early, with their subscribers. Notice "communicate with", which is different than "tell to."
"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."
Oh wait, I forgot, you're stuck in "I hate CCP Zulu and will deny everything that he says" mode.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:29:00 -
[1027]
Originally by: Aelantia Chipri Oh wait, I forgot, you're stuck in "I hate CCP Zulu and will deny everything that he says" mode.
No. I simply do not hold his word in any higher regard than that of any other CCP employee.
If he says one thing, and someone else say another, I can only come to the conclusion that they don't have full control over their message.
Again, it doesn't particularly sound like a debate. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:30:00 -
[1028]
I thought items for cash was good idea - until I looked at the price; monicles should be $4, not $80.
Also, I'm irritated by the title of this post, "The realities of Eve", because 1) Eve isn't real, and 2) the implication is that without items-for-cash, Eve will die. This makes me ask, "Where is all the subscription money going to then"
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:34:00 -
[1029]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 08:35:32
Originally by: Mors Magne I thought items for cash was good idea - until
You were part of the problem.
Sorry to say it.
Your subscription is going to the investors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Teasel
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:36:00 -
[1030]
Originally by: Mors Magne This makes me ask, "Where is all the subscription money going to then"
Some to EvE Online, some to EmO Online and Dust 514
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Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:44:00 -
[1031]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 08:35:32
Originally by: Mors Magne I thought items for cash was good idea - until
You were part of the problem.
Sorry to say it.
Your subscription is going to the investors.
Yes, unfortunately I agree with you - I think it's possible I gave the devs the impression that cash-for-items would be be a good thing. Unfortunately, the prices are so high that purchasing the items would definately not be cool. It would look like a badge of crassness - especially when a lot of the player base are probably students with low budgets etc.
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Coco Caine
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:52:00 -
[1032]
CCP Zulu, to read your blogs is a waste of time. Your rambling about mutual trust and relationship is terrible bulltish. Be honest and tell that your CEO is sitting in a hot pool musing over the bubbles of his farts.
From the Assembly Hall thread I take that 3/4 of your customers do not want more MT. Ever asked yourself why? Because PLEX for ISK is MT, and perfectly so. Improve the concept of 'Pilot Licence Extension' if you want to improve Eve MT, like splitting it into 'Frigate Pilot License', 'Capital Pilot License', but make sure people have to play hard to get in-game items.
The NEX shop is full dead stuff, because nobody needs to play Eve to get the items available there, it will potentially devalue in-game efforts as soon as there's 'valuable' items in there.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:53:00 -
[1033]
Yeah gotta be careful with CCP and giving them the wrong idea.
They see:
blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah. BLAH! blah blah blah. I would pay blah blah blah blah blah blah.
or
I blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah, blah blah! Too expensive! blah blah blah blah blah blah!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.27 08:58:00 -
[1034]
Having slept on this I'm actually quite insulted by this latest Dev Blog.
1. Its title 'The Realities of EVE', sounds like Zulu is saying to the playerbase to STFU acting like little kids over thsi and grow up, MT for in Game Advantage is coming and you an all go to hell if you think we are changing our minds casue we need your cash to develop Dust 514 and WoD (seeing how we have bitten off more than we can chew on these games are we up over a barrel to the investors/partners we brought on board for these games).
2. the 'gold ammo for Aurum' quote, given the utter break down in trist between CCP and its playerbase the phrasing of this is unfortunate. What Zulu needs to have said is 'CCP will NEVER introduce MT items that confer an ingame advantage'. The wording of this phrase and his subsequent comenments on how virtual good and service evolve in EVE along with the laughable quote about defining and addressing the real underlying concerns makes me suspiscious that CCP are in Damage limitation mode, giving themselves breathing sapce to halt the haemorrhaging of subscriptions.
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Xan Drakov
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:07:00 -
[1035]
Edited by: Xan Drakov on 27/06/2011 09:07:59 Looks like finally a step in the right direction. This should have been what was said in the devblog on friday and what you guys should have done as soon as the story broke. Hopefully you'll realise that and learn from it for the future.
But as has been said, the player-base will be watching this issue like hawks. And you could have thought of a better title!
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Cattegirn
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:08:00 -
[1036]
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Having slept on this I'm actually quite insulted by this latest Dev Blog.
1. Its title 'The Realities of EVE', sounds like Zulu is saying to the playerbase to STFU acting like little kids over thsi and grow up, MT for in Game Advantage is coming and you an all go to hell if you think we are changing our minds casue we need your cash to develop Dust 514 and WoD (seeing how we have bitten off more than we can chew on these games are we up over a barrel to the investors/partners we brought on board for these games).
2. the 'gold ammo for Aurum' quote, given the utter break down in trist between CCP and its playerbase the phrasing of this is unfortunate. What Zulu needs to have said is 'CCP will NEVER introduce MT items that confer an ingame advantage'. The wording of this phrase and his subsequent comenments on how virtual good and service evolve in EVE along with the laughable quote about defining and addressing the real underlying concerns makes me suspiscious that CCP are in Damage limitation mode, giving themselves breathing sapce to halt the haemorrhaging of subscriptions.
FIVE DOLLARS?!!
He's probably still just not cooled down. Cheap Low Budget Corp Startup Service - 5m isk gets you 150 member limit and Ethnic Relations Level 4. References available, contact via Evemail pls. |
Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:11:00 -
[1037]
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Having slept on this I'm actually quite insulted by this latest Dev Blog.
1. Its title 'The Realities of EVE', sounds like Zulu is saying to the playerbase to STFU acting like little kids over thsi and grow up, MT for in Game Advantage is coming and you an all go to hell if you think we are changing our minds casue we need your cash to develop...
Yes, I agree - he does come across this way. Looks like the representatives are being summoned to Iceland to be told "the facts of life" etc. (not for a discussion or a fact-finding exercise).
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:15:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: Mors Magne Looks like the representatives are being summoned to Iceland to be told "the facts of life" etc. (not for a discussion or a fact-finding exercise).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Sb7IZQOsc
To be co-opted into silencing enough of us to complete the funding of WoD and investors pockets.
Hopefully after 4-6 hours CSM will have convinced them that is not a good goal for the meeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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daint666
Minmatar WEPRA CORP White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:18:00 -
[1039]
So there never have and there arent plans for advantageous microtransactions.
now tell us that there NEVER WILL BE
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:19:00 -
[1040]
Originally by: Skyreth CCP is organising to meet the CSM to figure out a way to make things up to us, to reassure us and all the rest...yet so many of you won't even cut them a break in return?...real mature guys, you've just given CCP the moral high-ground there.
Well CCP can only blame themselfs for it. If they would have run these changes by CSM and actyally listened what CSM says, they could have avoided all this. Now they desided to steamroll it in and hope that player responce is not too bad. Im quessing player responce was way more stronger then they did expect and thats why this emergency summit with CSM now.
PErsonally i want to see actions to right direction before ill drop even a cent on to this game more. Have been playing since 2008. So far this has been worst "expansion" and worst handled PR situation ever. To me EvE has been unique game that rewards those that are smart and uses their brains, if they impelement P2W it will turn into "Pappa betalar" and lure of smart people is gone.
They dear to call incarna success and smoothly gone expansion, so what were those emergency patches then? Not so smooth on my view. Not to mention drasticly worse performance. Why is it that CCP people always makes these promises and newer then delivers. You know you could be sued in court for false advertisement for that. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
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Seako
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:20:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Having slept on this I'm actually quite insulted by this latest Dev Blog.
1. Its title 'The Realities of EVE', sounds like Zulu is saying to the playerbase to STFU acting like little kids over thsi and grow up, MT for in Game Advantage is coming and you an all go to hell if you think we are changing our minds casue we need your cash to develop Dust 514 and WoD (seeing how we have bitten off more than we can chew on these games are we up over a barrel to the investors/partners we brought on board for these games).
2. the 'gold ammo for Aurum' quote, given the utter break down in trist between CCP and its playerbase the phrasing of this is unfortunate. What Zulu needs to have said is 'CCP will NEVER introduce MT items that confer an ingame advantage'. The wording of this phrase and his subsequent comenments on how virtual good and service evolve in EVE along with the laughable quote about defining and addressing the real underlying concerns makes me suspiscious that CCP are in Damage limitation mode, giving themselves breathing sapce to halt the haemorrhaging of subscriptions.
It seems like he has no clue what the game is about, what the playerbase is or who regular people that plays actually are.
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Stromfresser
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:20:00 -
[1042]
I'll watch what you do, not what you say
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Invier
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:25:00 -
[1043]
It was not in my intention to get involved in this debate but ....
I really cannot see the problem with the aurum. Did someone forced you to buy the damn monocle ? Of course, if CCP will go down the dangerous path of selling ships, better equipment for real money, that would suck and then, they will loose more ppl than now. But the damn clothes and glasses are optional, if you want to buy them, go ahead, otherwise, dont.
It is in a way hilarious that you try to force a company that in the end has to run a business (make money), not to make money, or try to convince them to make money as some players want. It is quite insane.
You do not like the direction of EVE, cancel your subscription. I think it is a mature way of dealing with the problem, not blobbing Jita or as i have heard today, some alliances refuse access to players that already bought the stupid monocle.
Seriously, you have to pay for WOW patches, here you dont, the rest is optional.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:27:00 -
[1044]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Mors Magne Looks like the representatives are being summoned to Iceland to be told "the facts of life" etc. (not for a discussion or a fact-finding exercise).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Sb7IZQOsc
To be co-opted into silencing enough of us to complete the funding of WoD and investors pockets.
Hopefully after 4-6 hours CSM will have convinced them that is not a good goal for the meeting.
If the CCCP tries to badger the CSM on this, I would advise the CSM to walk out and resign. Mitttens said on the EVE Radio Funkybacon show that if CCP introduces MT for in game advantage he and the Goons are gone.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:37:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: Invier Stuff that shows I don't know what I'm talking about.
Buddy there are literally thousands of posts refuting this argument of yours, but I'll save you the bother of trawling for them.
Its not, and never has been about that dammed monacle, I could not care less about it, my ONLY concern is if CCP introduces MT items that offer and In-Game advantage. To do this would fundamentally break EVE's player driven economy.
This issue has acted as a lightning rod for all the other concerns many players have for EVE, not least the obvious use of EVE by CCP as a cash cow to fund Dust 514 and World Of Darkness. In usisng EVE for this purpose there is the perception that CCP has abandoned EVE, remember the famous quote by one of the DEV's that stated that CCP would not be doing any major work on EVE for at least 18 months?
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SB Rico
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:49:00 -
[1046]
"Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy"
This last sentence is somewhat ambiguous methinks
Option a: The agenda of the meeting is to discuss exactly what items the virtual store will have and how best to implement.
Option b: This meeting will be to discuss how to implement the introduction of virtual goods we have decided upon.
The EGM then worries me, this implies that a planned action has caused a problem and discussion is needed on how to overcome that problem. In the event of a misunderstandning a simple we do not intend the changes youfear would seem to negate in the short term a need for flying in people from around the world and allowing time to review the situation.
Would be nice to see the minutes of the meeting published for the entire community, you know.
This is obviously now a community wide issue why not let people see how CCP and CSM deal with it?
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:54:00 -
[1047]
Edited by: Dasola on 27/06/2011 09:55:23
Originally by: Invier It was not in my intention to get involved in this debate but ....
I really cannot see the problem with the aurum. Did someone forced you to buy the damn monocle ? Of course, if CCP will go down the dangerous path of selling ships, better equipment for real money, that would suck and then, they will loose more ppl than now. But the damn clothes and glasses are optional, if you want to buy them, go ahead, otherwise, dont.
It is in a way hilarious that you try to force a company that in the end has to run a business (make money), not to make money, or try to convince them to make money as some players want. It is quite insane.
You do not like the direction of EVE, cancel your subscription. I think it is a mature way of dealing with the problem, not blobbing Jita or as i have heard today, some alliances refuse access to players that already bought the stupid monocle.
Seriously, you have to pay for WOW patches, here you dont, the rest is optional.
You so lost its not even funny.
Its not aurum were protesting, its not even sunclasses for aurum, ie vanity items.
What were up in arms is bossibility of ccp introduseing game advantages for aurum. Like for example ships, weapons, ammunition, skillpooints, etc... That ccp promised earlyer they would not introduce. Now we cant even get straight answer for them to question: Are you goint go go beyond vanity items on NEX?
Based on their internal newsletter they were discussing it even if it was not suposed to be off the table.
So its time for actions, enough for empty words CCP.
* Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:56:00 -
[1048]
Originally by: Invier It was not in my intention to get involved in this debate but ....
I really cannot see the problem with the aurum. Did someone forced you to buy the damn monocle ? Of course, if CCP will go down the dangerous path of selling ships, better equipment for real money, that would suck and then, they will loose more ppl than now. But the damn clothes and glasses are optional, if you want to buy them, go ahead, otherwise, dont.
It is in a way hilarious that you try to force a company that in the end has to run a business (make money), not to make money, or try to convince them to make money as some players want. It is quite insane.
You do not like the direction of EVE, cancel your subscription. I think it is a mature way of dealing with the problem, not blobbing Jita or as i have heard today, some alliances refuse access to players that already bought the stupid monocle.
Seriously, you have to pay for WOW patches, here you dont, the rest is optional.
Quoting a faceless CCP alt. PS: I find your lack of face disturbing. I'll bet you bought some of those monocles and don't want us to see it.
It isn't about the vanity items, even if they are ridiculously overpriced. I also couldn't care less if you want to spend $68 or $25 or $1000 to look like a tranny online. Have at it. If you want a Scorpion of a different color, go for it. Personally, I don't value my online personality so much that I want to spend real money on make believe pixels. I gladly pay my sub fee so that I can play eve in all its glory.
It's about the loss of trust between the devs and the community, and the degradation of my gaming experience and the game environment that in-game advantages would enable. Having Scorps for nothing but RL cash is bad for the game environment. Thankfully, CCP at least got that part right. But with the recent leaks and broken promise to not introduce MT, I begin to wonder how much more they have in the works, despite what has been said.
I have until July 20th when my current sub expires. I'll keep my eyes and ears open and see where things go. If at that point I'm not satisfied, it'll be another -1 subscription. Straight up and without exception, I don't play p2w games. I did it once. When I quit, it suddenly occurred to me that I had spent hundreds of dollars and had nothing to show for it.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Laxyr
Chamsin Freight Logistics
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Posted - 2011.06.27 09:59:00 -
[1049]
Alright, I'm not entirely convinced yet. I will wait for the outcome of that CSM meeting before making any decisions for myself.
While I see this whole thing in a slightly more optimistic lighting, I do want to remind CCP: Two monologues do not make a dialogue.
Regards, Lax
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Korb'A
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:03:00 -
[1050]
Edited by: Korb''A on 27/06/2011 10:03:18 :) to answer to Desala, i am not lost. I agree with you on one topic, the sell of items in game that would create and advantage, for real money. On this topic, i am with you 100%.
Still, the best way to hurt them is to suspend accounts and thats all. If they will come to this, i will cancel my account.
I agree with you that they have some explanation to do but, CCP is a company, companies want to make money. The future will show them if the strategy is healthy or if they will start loosing ppl and money.
P.S Crap, i posted from my other char...anyway, Invier here )
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Invier
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:05:00 -
[1051]
Soldarius, this is just paranoia.
Have you ever tought about the fact that a char does not have a face because the user did not care about it ?
CCP is not in all things you know ;)
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Sheena Tzash
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:06:00 -
[1052]
Personally I don't see this as an issue of just micro transactions or rage over the poor optimisation of Incarna - the whole issue is about TRUST.
The attitude of CCP recently has been "I know whats best for you, and if you don't agree then you're wrong"; the leaked email was just further confirmation of "We knew this crap storm was coming, but we think its awesome so you should too".
Going all the way back to the initial discussions of Incarna CCP was tight lipped about the direction they were trying to go with working on Incaran; players and CSM expressed their concerns and asked nicely if we could get some reassurance and information on what CCP was planning with Incarna; vague and undescriptive answers were the response.
The issue of micro transactions is brought up and the issue of paying for an advantage is a huge concern for players and is quickly shot down; case closed we think. Then the 'greed is good newsletter' is leaked which contradicts what was said / promised.
Now I agree that its only an opionion of one person; but look at the job title of the person giving that opionion: "Game designer". If it was "Bob the tea boy" then it would have far less impact, but since its a "Game designer" people can easily put things together and understand that this persons 'opinion' has a very VERY good chance of being implemented because of the role that person & their opinions have.
When the impending storm hits CCP reacts with a cold calculating response. Another leaked email confirms CCPs impression of the players by simply saying "We know what you want and you don't: we can even prove it because we've sold 50 odd space monicles"
CCP: Yes EVE is your sand box but this is OUR game; we are the ones who give it life and make it grow.
You are free to change the toys we play with but if we don't like whats you've done then you'll be left in that sand box all by yourself.
I would agree that a lot of the time the customer / player doesn't always know the best solution to a given problem, and you do need to 'give them what they need, not what they want' but this process without correct communication is a disaster waiting to happen (or has happened) simply because what is 'needed' is heavily opinion based and can easily go wrong.
It's that communication that has been broken and its been replace with back ally discussions and hidden intentions which has broken the essential trust between you and your players because you feel that you cannot talk to your players because "You know whats best for us" and "You'll hate it because its different, regardless of what we do"
You're going to have to eat A LOT of humble pie to make it up; and for a lot of people that won't even be enough as we will still never know if we can EVER trust you again.
Good luck
-1 subscription.
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Andrei Vassaliev
Cursed Inc. Not Found.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:14:00 -
[1053]
Remember CCP Shadow, last year: "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever."
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:14:00 -
[1054]
using my subscription fee to build something then sell it back to me? that should be illegal. |
Tla Atij
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:24:00 -
[1055]
Edited by: Tla Atij on 27/06/2011 10:24:26 1. Claim there have been no plans to sell non-vanity items. 2. Claim there are currently no plans to sell non-vanity items. 3. Let some time pass. 4. Make plans to sell non-vanity items. 5. Sell non-vanity items. 6. (there is no 6) 7. Profit.
Weak.
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:32:00 -
[1056]
It will take years of NeX vanity only items to redeem yourself CCP and even one hint of non-vanity will cause an even bigger threadnaught to spawn and even more subscriber $$ to go away.
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Morar Santee
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:33:00 -
[1057]
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
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Jannx
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:40:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
Sorry to be a pain, but is there a place that lists links to the current CSM's blogs?
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:42:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
Here here.
I would like to add in a 6th: 6) Have the devs (along with Hilmar) sign a simple piece of paper with the question with their answer next to their signature: Non-vanity items, yes or no.. This will tell us right away if it's planned and a scanned copy should be distributed amongst every fan of EVE, if they ever break their word we send said document to a gamer publication. This will not be legally binding in anyway, it would just be a show of good faith from CCP as a whole towards the community and more over will show the company is willing to risk itself for its community.
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zzlep Alduin
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:45:00 -
[1060]
I unsubbed two of my three accounts for other things - this was kinda close to the bone man, I mean clothes and fairy dust are one thing but to pay once for the game and then pay again to have the best items or large amounts of ISK brings in the debate about who exactly plays this game - in money terms my cost of living has risen so much over the last 18 months that i am getting very close to cancelling all together with the game direction - simple put i want to keep the good memories i have rather than the last 12 months that, in my opinion, has seen the game deteriate quicker then the worlds economy.
That being said I will wait for the CSM meeting minutes to decide if CCP have managed to put out the fire, my feeling is this is just the start - its not enough they ruined null sec, which in my opinion makes the Dominion patch completely worthless (shame really I thought it had promise).
We will see,
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C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:46:00 -
[1061]
Originally by: Invier Soldarius, this is just paranoia.
Have you ever tought about the fact that a char does not have a face because the user did not care about it ?
CCP is not in all things you know ;)
Of course, you DO realize that you cannot log in to play without a face, right? So really, you either haven't played the game (at least on this character), or you are too gutless to polish this turd with your main. GJ.
O/T: What you DO, CCP, trumps what you SAY. I think believe that since this blog took you 6 hours to write (with 100% more love) , you chose your ambiguity carefully. Flying the CSM in looks terribly like a delaying tactic. Answer the damn question, in CLEAR and CONCISE language. Thanks. Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:46:00 -
[1062]
as long as it's only pretties I don't care what you sell, if it makes a game differnece then don't do it. let them have that in WOD if you want, eve- leave alone
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Majmuna
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:55:00 -
[1063]
Curiously enough, Zulu has not convinced me at all.
1) CSM+CCP meeting = buying time.
2) "no gold ammo" =/= "no p2w".
3) "there are and never have been plans to implement..." together with the Fearless newsletter stating "we will..." (for those among you who would like to object "he said it is not official policy and is out of context", well if you write into your corporate magazine a sentence containing "we will do so and so" - that doesnt really sound like internal discussion, does it?)
"Bah" to your "realities", Zulu.
Majmuna out.
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Esceem
Gallente Baby Seal Clubbing Appreciation Society Bed Bath and Beyond
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Posted - 2011.06.27 10:59:00 -
[1064]
CCP Zulu, I'll make it plain and simple, just for you:
STOP THE GREED! |
Hana Steelethorne
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:01:00 -
[1065]
I'll be watching the actions CCP takes in regards to the issues raised by the kerfuffle over the issues of MT and the leaked 'Fearless' newsletter. But really...flying CSM's to Iceland? They have things like teleconferencing these days.
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:01:00 -
[1066]
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
- For those of you that think this business model can never apply to EVE
1. A business model does not mean that all the details must be exactly the same from one business to another. That's why it's called a model, a template. You need to come up with specific, personalized approaches for your own business. A business model is based on marketing, mass psychology, customer thinking patterns, habits, social behavior, statistics, etc.
2. EVE is P2P! This is not a valid argument. The numbers show that a lot of ppl already bought monocles and clothing and are willing to pay for customization and power items in NEX shop. We are in target. CCP might even try a hybrid dual-pay scheme.
3. It is possible EVE Online will go F2P. Especially if SOE will takes over. Those of you that believe CCP Fallout, it's your choice, I don't give a fck... BUUUT DUST514 for PS3 only! Hello!?! SOE has invested a lot of time (and money) in this project.
Here is John Smedley, President of SOE answering a question (full interwiew HERE) Q: So you don't think that sandboxes (and sandbox systems) are dead for SOE? Will you ever make a new sandbox with SWG's pioneering features? The answer is... stay tuned on the subject of sandboxes. We're super excited about the future of sandbox gaming. Let me just leave it at that!
4. The average age is different. Not entirely true. The average age of a BF:Heroes player is only 3-4 years younger. In the last years EVE Online became more and more dumb proof, more accessible to the younger player. This culminates with Incarna and the new player tutorial being a very appealing experience for a new (young) player.
5. The EVE Online player is not a peacck. Ofc not all players are peaccks but a very significant % are. If "you" are not a peacck, then why did "you" spent so much time on the customization of your character and why CCP had to give ppl the chance to "remodel" their characters a few times after the initial release of the new characters? Cos ppl were unhappy with their "creations", cos they care about looks, that bug was ment to be . Why do you think they gave us the "possibility" to recreate our characters as much and as many times as we want to now? Most important, the majority of EVE players are competitive, otherwise they would've chosen a different MMORPG.
6. There were no surveys. Wrong. There is the annual CCP survey, tho if I remember right, there were no questions regarding NEX Store, the questions in that survey were meant to gather info on customer behavior, addiction, alternative games we might migrate to... all kinds of "useful" information. "Dear xxxxxx, You are invited to participate in a survey being conducted by CCP...." The other "surveys" were conducted in-game by crunching numbers, statistics. For example: how much time the player spent designing and redesigning the new character model. I'm sure there are many aspects, numbers and indicators to be interpreted.
7. EVE has depth. Yes, it does but we made it like this. It can make money without all that obscure 0.0 politics, without all those well thought war plans, without any plans at all. Just a bunch of players running around popping stuff. Might be fun.
8. NEX current Prices -> Price anchoring
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Invier
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:03:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: C4LYP50
Originally by: Invier Soldarius, this is just paranoia.
Have you ever tought about the fact that a char does not have a face because the user did not care about it ?
CCP is not in all things you know ;)
Of course, you DO realize that you cannot log in to play without a face, right? So really, you either haven't played the game (at least on this character), or you are too gutless to polish this turd with your main. GJ.
O/T: What you DO, CCP, trumps what you SAY. I think believe that since this blog took you 6 hours to write (with 100% more love) , you chose your ambiguity carefully. Flying the CSM in looks terribly like a delaying tactic. Answer the damn question, in CLEAR and CONCISE language. Thanks.
You do realize that you can have a character without a face as long as you did not use it in game for a long time, before incarna, right ? You can log in EVE but you cannot enter the game with that char if it is faceless. The paranoia suspicion still remains :)
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:04:00 -
[1068]
Originally by: Laendra Why is a CSM visit required to understand that we don't ****ing want non-vanity RMT?
To my mind, this visit isn't just about discussing the failures that lead to the current uproar, but also the underlying issues, both inside CCP, and in their relationship with CSM, that need to be addressed.
A lot of what has happened in the last few weeks could have been avoided if CSM had been consulted more and earlier.
Easy example: if we'd been on the "Fearless" distribution list, when it came out, we'd have said "Holy spaceturds, guys. Does this really represent your thinking? If the players see this, they'll go berserk!"
And from the discussion that would follow, we would have had a better understanding of what it really represented, so that if it ever did leak, we'd have been able to give you guys that context.
The bottom line is, despite all the "CSM is useless" talk, when the **** hits the fan, CSM is more credible than CCP simply because you know that we have a different perspective on things that is more aligned with player consensus.
Originally by: CAAN0N Haven't read the thread yet but has anyone yet considered the fact that CCP might be inviting the CSM to Iceland to go all snuff film on there asses? Careful guys could be a TARP!
Not a problem. We have CCP Xhagen on our side. Those who have seen him will understand. He's a full-on Viking Berserker with a mohawk.
Also, the main conference room is easily defensible, we could hold out in there for weeks.
Originally by: Lidia Prince Are we talking about whole CSM? Will UAxDeath and Mittani participate? I love those guys.
We don't know yet who is going to be able to make it in RL, but we will skype in people if possible.
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Jannx
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:12:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow The bottom line is, despite all the "CSM is useless" talk, when the **** hits the fan, CSM is more credible than CCP simply because you know that we have a different perspective on things that is more aligned with player consensus.
Is the meeting likely to be minuted? And will we be able so see the minutes if it is?
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:16:00 -
[1070]
Transcripts available the second day Treb, not that we don't trust the CSM it's that CCP doesn't always follow through.
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Alice Quin
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:22:00 -
[1071]
If you wan't to gain trust, why not stream the meetings. Not that you can't 'cheat' that way but it might be another way to gain some confidence back. (CCP has the server capacity for a stream like this, I'm sure of it.) I know this may sound more like an interogation but hey, anything to save our beloved EvE atm ... This is just something that popped to mind so sorry if it sounds a bit 'over the top'.
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Neo160
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:26:00 -
[1072]
your request for parley has been granted.
I look forward to the CSM meeting. We will be watching what you do, not what you say, as you have clearly proven that we cannot possibly trust what you say, nor can we hope to truly understand what you mean when you say something. What you have been doing and saying have been two different things, at-least it seems, to the community.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:29:00 -
[1073]
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Shandir
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:31:00 -
[1074]
I don't believe you. -
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:38:00 -
[1075]
I too believe that streaming this meeting would be a very interesting idea. If CCP wants the players to understand the process then why not show it to us?
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Sing Xing
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:47:00 -
[1076]
Edited by: Sing Xing on 27/06/2011 11:50:44
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.
Tbh, I dont know why the CSM should be involved in the pricing strategy. Honestly, that seems like something CCP should figure out on their own, not something you'd want the playerbase involved in - customers dictating price? That's bound to end well.
Then again, I didnt get why people were suddenly ****ing their pants in hysteria over the expensive vantiy crap in the first place, they really wanted that stupid monocle so badly and couldnt afford it? I mean, I get the massive uproar over pay2win (if it was actually implemented, other than in it's current plex form) but prices in the vanity shop? Major issue? Really? Space-doll outfit too expensive? Who gives a ****. Run some level 4s and buy it that way, if you dont like the dollar price.
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Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:54:00 -
[1077]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Laendra Why is a CSM visit required to understand that we don't ****ing want non-vanity RMT?
To my mind, this visit isn't just about discussing the failures that lead to the current uproar, but also the underlying issues, both inside CCP, and in their relationship with CSM, that need to be addressed.
A lot of what has happened in the last few weeks could have been avoided if CSM had been consulted more and earlier.
Easy example: if we'd been on the "Fearless" distribution list, when it came out, we'd have said "Holy spaceturds, guys. Does this really represent your thinking? If the players see this, they'll go berserk!"
And from the discussion that would follow, we would have had a better understanding of what it really represented, so that if it ever did leak, we'd have been able to give you guys that context.
The bottom line is, despite all the "CSM is useless" talk, when the **** hits the fan, CSM is more credible than CCP simply because you know that we have a different perspective on things that is more aligned with player consensus.
Originally by: CAAN0N Haven't read the thread yet but has anyone yet considered the fact that CCP might be inviting the CSM to Iceland to go all snuff film on there asses? Careful guys could be a TARP!
Not a problem. We have CCP Xhagen on our side. Those who have seen him will understand. He's a full-on Viking Berserker with a mohawk.
Also, the main conference room is easily defensible, we could hold out in there for weeks.
Originally by: Lidia Prince Are we talking about whole CSM? Will UAxDeath and Mittani participate? I love those guys.
We don't know yet who is going to be able to make it in RL, but we will skype in people if possible.
Trebor,
And the rest of the CSM infact.
I pretty sure that I can guess as to how CCP is planning to play this when you all get to Iceland, so I was hoping that all of you of the CSM could give us an undertaking while over there, and that is to:
Please abstain from alcohol and/ or drugs and/ or hookers for the duration of your stay.
CCP: Consistency since 2003 |
Alfacinha
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:55:00 -
[1078]
after so many lies, how can trust be the same? I pay two accounts on EVE, but i will cancel one now. Only the future will tell whether or not to continue with the other: P
STOP THE GREED CCP, OR WILL LOSE MANY PLAYERS
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Meissa Anunthiel
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:56:00 -
[1079]
Originally by: Sing Xing
Tbh, I dont know why the CSM should be involved in the pricing strategy. Honestly, that seems like something CCP should figure out on their own, not something you'd want the playerbase involved in - customers dictating price? That's bound to end well.
Then again, I didnt get why people were suddenly ****ing their pants in hysteria over the expensive vantiy crap, they really wanted that stupid monocle so badly and couldnt afford it? I mean, I get the massive uproar over pay2win (if it was actually implemented, other than in it's current plex form) but prices in the vanity shop? Major issue? Really? Space-doll outfit too expensive? Who gives a ****. Run some level 4s and buy it that way, if you dont like the dollar price.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to be. However one thing we're good at and CCP terrible at is determining what the player perception is going to be. And they should have used us for that if nothing else.
As a player, before the whole PDF/email, my stance was that "well, I would have purchased a skirt and boots and a blouse for Meissa had they been $4ish, but as it is I'm not going to". That's it. No emoraging foaming at the mouth. And I don't care about monocles (actually I welcome terribly overpriced "status symbol" items).
I also find it a shame that the pricing structure effectively cuts off a large part of the playerbase. But like I said, this is not why I'm angry.
My reason for being angry is because I spent lots of time during CSM 5 telling CCP "no vanity item", CCP agreed, I repeated the message in CSM 6, CCP agreed, the leaked PDF seems to indicate they're considering it and, when asked to clarify, CCP fails/doesn't want to dispel the notion. That's where most of my irritation comes from.
Considering the other factors, it mothballs into *this* ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Jonathan Priest
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:57:00 -
[1080]
Edited by: Jonathan Priest on 27/06/2011 12:01:14 Edited by: Jonathan Priest on 27/06/2011 11:57:49
Originally by: Angeliq
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
+more words
This is a presentation that talks about how they can be profitable with 2 million people paying them an average of $1.50/month for in game advantages. When they started it was just $.25/month. All the higher numbers in the presentation come from striping out the people not engaging in micro transactions, which is just a way of making things look better on paper.
Its probably a safe assumption that the average eve player has at least 2 accounts, so thats $30/month right there. Why would you risk that for micro transactions, even if you manged to pull it off as well as battlefield heroes I doubt it would make up for the lost subs.
Keep in mind eve is not free to play, so you aren't going to get the millions of people neccesary to make micro transactions work. And even if you could, imagine if eves population increased 6 times or so. It wouldn't be playable.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.27 11:59:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Desert Ice78
Trebor,
And the rest of the CSM infact.
I pretty sure that I can guess as to how CCP is planning to play this when you all get to Iceland, so I was hoping that all of you of the CSM could give us an undertaking while over there, and that is to:
Please abstain from alcohol and/ or drugs and/ or hookers for the duration of your stay.
You're kidding. For once we get the opportunity to get us CCP to get us hookers and we're going to pass it over? No way...
In all seriousness, what good would us coming back to you saying "everything is fine and dandy, CCP plans on selling pink rifters that do the damage of a titan, but it's cool". The community would rightfully bash us and progress wouldn't be made.
Believe me when I say I want to make your/our stance clear to CCP and get them to address our concerns adequately, period. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:04:00 -
[1082]
Biggest problem: Pay-to-win.
And truly don't see why it is so hard to just give us a NO to non-vanity items clear and straight.
The rest of the shop could even be successful, if the on-station content to come will be interesting enough. And if the pricing is changed. I don't care about monocles and clothes that much.
There were on-station shops mentioned though, that could be player-owned. Now, I already see this will be something bound to Aurum, if it comes. If a monocle comes at 70$ or so, what will the price for a virtual bar be? A thousand dollars? Is that even enough?
So, get real. And stay away from anything that affects the game. In an ideal world, you'd stray away from the whole Aurum concept, but I see that is not going to happen.
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Asmodeus Et'Mort
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:05:00 -
[1083]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk u a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.
HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR???
lol
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.
lololololol
u be trippin or trollin?
Mental, Trebor said be more specific thatn that dont just sday "gold Ammo" you would have thought after fridays disaster they would have listened. Why did ZULU not say no non vanity, it was easy to say. When you teach children to answer a question you always tell them to use the question in the answer so it is clearly understood. Basic comprehension skills. The fact Zulu did not say it demonstrates there is a plan for non vanity items, be it fittings that we used to have or standings, or bars and shops in station. Honestly its spin, SWG here we come.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:08:00 -
[1084]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 27/06/2011 12:09:57
Originally by: Angeliq
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
So the math would be to say "forget about forum posters" despite them paying ten times more than non forum folks, as the number of non forum folks is 75% of all users?! Interesting.
But there are some things to note here:
a) Battlefield Heroes is FREE TO PLAY + ads + micropayment
b) There is no indication Battlefield Heroes had/has any loyal customer base at all. The daily active user graph is not raising not to say declining, monthly new user count is stalling. It's important to look at current month revenues. But if you're any good at what you do you're correct at predicting what your revenue in three months will be like. Driving away customers who did return since plenty of years usually doesn't help with that.
c) There's no indication of any BF Heroes third party developers filling in game functionality gaps.
d) "What do consumers want virtual good games to be?" EA obviously did pay attention. And did add new content people optionally can pay for.
e) There's no concept of "the user shapes the sandbox" at all, is it?
f) Do you assume EVE to be a polished product?
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Aidan Brooder
Caldari Dynasphere Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:14:00 -
[1085]
There is one further important topic for the CSM to address in Iceland. It kind of got under the wheels of the much larger NEX-store discussion.
That is CCPs plans of charging providers/developers of third party products money. EVEMON, EVE Wallet Aware, EFT... I have never seen any indication that providers of such programs want to charge the players using their tools. They actually provide service that expands CCPs game.
It feels like charging a nurse so she can aid her patients.
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Septohak
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:15:00 -
[1086]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.
I agree with this.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:31:00 -
[1087]
So, another usless devblog full of fluff. Oh well, it's not like Hillmar was totally wrong in his letter: you should only judge people actions, so far CCP done nothing. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:34:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.
Oh, don't get me wrong here, I don't actually mind the Nex store too much. I've got my own grievances about a MT store being in a Sub game in the first place sure, let alone it being an external pathway into the Eve sandbox, but if it was certain to be vanity items only, I would happily ignore it like I do in every other game that has them.
Problem lies with all the shebang that's happened. I, and judging by the posts on here from lots of players who agree, can no longer trust CCP to not introduce P2W items at some point. Even if they promise in blood not to do so, the issue of it is going to linger over the game like a shadow and a reminder of how fragile trust is, and all it's going to take is one misplaced comment by a dev that'll reignite the entire thing.
Hence my statement for point 2. Removal of the entire Nex store is the only way to completely obliterate that shadow and therefore the flashpoint. Removal of Aur and replacing it with bog standard ISK would functionally work (and be a good ISK sink), but tbh, if that option was chosen, you might as well remove the entire thing and just put everything in the LP store or on the market (or tie it in with future WiS).
The bonus about removing the NeX store would be the gain in trust from the playerbase, with CCP showing they're not corporate shills and still have the stones to do what's right for the game and the people who play it. As shown in this week, faith and trust is hard to earn but extremely easy to destroy.
Still, thanks for reading it and taking it onboard, it's good to know the CSM are actively reading these posts even though it must be a rather timeconsuming role with no thanks. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:42:00 -
[1089]
Edited by: I''thari on 27/06/2011 12:42:32
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.
While I don't like item shop in general, as long as it has only vanity items, it can be ignored.
So far I see 2 problems with it (apart from possible P2W which will ruin market/industry side of the game): - AUR tied to PLEX - AUR is in wallet, right next to ISK and has DIFFERENT COLOR |
Alfacinha
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Posted - 2011.06.27 12:45:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Buzzmong
As shown in this week, faith and trust is hard to earn but extremely easy to destroy.
Quote:
Very true !!
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Meeogi
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:03:00 -
[1091]
Originally by: Sha Dar NOW you want to listen to the CSM...
LOL
HAHAHAHAHA when did they say anything ever about listening to them hahahahaha. What a Fuukiing farce
Wax on Wax off |
Abye
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:19:00 -
[1092]
This smells like a stalling stunt.
Also avoiding a definitive answer to a question posted hundreds of times only makes people more suspicious. |
DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:21:00 -
[1093]
There are already plans for escalating the protests into full blown riots should CCP declare non-vanity is coming. If it comes to that, I'll be among the rioters (don't worry CCP, no server crashing, hacking, etc, just things which are still perfectly within the games rules...just allot of it).
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:23:00 -
[1094]
Originally by: Abye This smells like a stalling stunt.
Also avoiding a definitive answer to a question posted hundreds of times only makes people more suspicious.
What purpose would it serve, the revenue for a week can't be what they're after...
I believe they want to know the exact reasons why we think what we think, and iron out the policy so it doesn't become a subject of discussion again. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Naga Tokiba
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:33:00 -
[1095]
Until today, I've been reading the devbolgs and lots of replys about "this case", and honestly I dont thing it's worth to make such a fuzz about.
Today I read the issue of Fearless, and I still dont think it's worth making a fuzz about.
There is nothing wrong in CCP wanting to make money selling their product (I do that when selling my own software).
I think it's perfectly OK to sell virtual goods that are NOT ability enhancing. If I for Ç, $, PLEX or AUR could buy my own living-quarters, mini POS, asteroid colony or floating caravan in space, I would do so ... and I would make i soooo big it was visible from Jita 4-4 :-)
Instead of all this fuzz, give CCP some space to FIX BUGS, and lets just enjoy this great game of ours.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:34:00 -
[1096]
Edited by: I''thari on 27/06/2011 13:36:40
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel I believe they want to know the exact reasons why we think what we think, and iron out the policy so it doesn't become a subject of discussion again.
How hard can it be? We think what we do is exactly because it's not the subject of discussion
Originally by: Naga Tokiba Instead of all this fuzz, give CCP some space to FIX BUGS, and lets just enjoy this great game of ours.
They had plenty, actually... where do you think :18months: came from? |
Chrysanthemum Korik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:47:00 -
[1097]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Abye This smells like a stalling stunt.
Also avoiding a definitive answer to a question posted hundreds of times only makes people more suspicious.
What purpose would it serve, the revenue for a week can't be what they're after...
I believe they want to know the exact reasons why we think what we think, and iron out the policy so it doesn't become a subject of discussion again.
Buying time from a PR standpoint is always a good idea especially if you plan on screwing over your customers.
You know how people are, in a week half the people angry now will have cooled off or forgotten about this. Besides, why would they need to know what we think about RMT for non-vanity items? A. They know what we think and; B. Why would they need to know what we think about it if they weren't planning for it?
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:48:00 -
[1098]
Dear friends,
It is with great sadness that I must admit to you that I no longer give two rats asses about Eve Online. Recent events that have unfolded have demonstrated to me that I am wasting my time and money in this game, regardless of if they implement pay to win or not.
I went and checked out Perpetuum (per - pet - you - um) last night. It is quite Eve-ish with the exception that instead a spaceship pew pew game it's a robot terran pew pew game. Very reminiscent of Eve in 03/04. **The developers play with the players**. A lot of the same mechanics apply, their interface is similar enough to easily adapt from Eve, and they just opened beta early this year so... now's the time to start if you want to be in on the ground floor. Persistent single shard universe and half the cost of Eve. I will be forming a corporation there once I get a feel for the game and if you want to find Silly Noob (my main) - that's where I'll be. They're getting a massive in-flux of ex-Eve players and most of my friends will also be leaving Eve Online for Perpetuum. We've decided we're all done paying CCP to be *this* obtuse.
And no, you can't haz my sh*t here. Get over it. I earned it, I'm taking it to the grave with me b*tches :P
I will continue to run reportbots.com, the PI POS fuel calculator and the new API verification code generator until CCP locks me out of their API with their insane $99 developer license (or they deploy the new API), at which time I will shut it all down.
Thank you to everyone (even that jackass WT that blew up my Broadsword the other night while I was busy shooting the monument in Amarr and talking to people in local about this issue!) for the many, many years of exciting game play. I came to eve in '04 and I've made a lot of cool real life friends thanks to this game. I look forward to playing with you and my new found friends on Perpetuum when you, too, tire of CCPs constant communication problems and total lack of transparency with themselves, much less with their players. My game play here would not have been any fun at all without all of you - yes even *you* in the back row. :) Thank you all. o7
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Sing Xing
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:49:00 -
[1099]
Originally by: Angeliq
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
Well, if Hilmar/CCP saw that presentation I can see why they might be tempted to go for it, on the surface it sounds a hella lot like what's been going on around here.
I especially love how the presenters little personal philosophy and pocket-psychologist assumptions were presented as scientific fact at the end there.
It's also fairly hilarious that the guy considers 1-2 years long term. I guess he has to considering that nearly everyone who has heard of BF:H at this point, knows that the is not really a free2play game but rather a pay2win one. I guess the bad publizity doesnt matter much when you have a new game coming out with regular intervals. And for some mysterious reason he doesnt mention the bonus stuff you got for signing up an extra account, which I would guess atleast 30% of the playerbase got (making his 'no drop in players' be more like a '30% drop in players' so far).
The tweens and young teens(huge spike in income from SMS payment option?!?) who plays BF:H have more money than sense and I guess that's good for EA exploit/capitalize on, but no matter how good it looks on their revenue table, I still think it's a douche move. It also completely lacks the 'TLC' that CCP has been putting in EVE (and the playerbase) since way back when people still made games for fun and trying to make the game awesome was the goal itself (not that game developers dont like solid gold toilets and private jets complete with hookers 'n blow etc). It's all just guesswork, but I'm pretty sure that in the LONG, long run, and not just the next financial year, CCP is better of not going p2w. BF:H is also a hilariously casual game, where EVE is relentlessly SRS BSNSS.
But what the **** do we know, we're just the whiny 2% of the games population either way.
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Sparkus Volundar
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:53:00 -
[1100]
Dear Jim,
Please could you fit it for me so that when we are looking at 'the door', the ship fitting window is is open on the screen by default when we dock or login at a station? That one [simple] step could achieves:
1) A reminder what ship we're in before undocking in the wrong one. 2) It makes the little buttons for the cargo and drone bays more accessible. 3) We can check out your funky new rotating AC barrels. 4) It will let us ship-spin. 5) It will let us ship-spin.
Regards, Sparks
Jim = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim'll_Fix_It Now I have a T2 gun. Ho, ho, ho. |
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mrmooo
Caldari Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:58:00 -
[1101]
Ill be giving CCP the benefit of the doubt--
for me the bottom line is
1.Disembark button
2.Vanity items only in the AUR store
Id like to see a bit more talk from CCP about the development of the core game and fixing of issues rather than fluff like incarna
CCP can make this right --the reason for all the outrage and protest is that we are passionate about the game and what CCP have created
My 3 accounts remain subsribed for the time being
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Nali Kceb
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:12:00 -
[1102]
Please read, No flaming post!
We players must not forget you guys have feelings too. I am delighted to hear you have a meeting with your CMS about this. Also I guess every relation (even if its between corporation and customers)sometimes have bad moments, and this blog gave me allot of hope its all going to be fixed again and we players shouldn't get mad/lose hope that easy. I think CQ are a verry nice addition, the turrets effects are awesome.
Let me say one thing about the Aurum stuff before the meeting:
I would have no problem with $30+ items but that should be VERRY exclusive items. Think a sword wielded by a king in the past, now for decorative purpose. Or a gilded hover chair!
I would love to buy some stuff in the NeX shop but I really think the prizes are currently to high for the items. I could start of with some cheaper items and probably buy one of those more expensive items later. Or just buy a nice collection of cheaper items and let the expensive items for others.
I hope you understand it and again I am really happy to hear you are going to have a meeting with the CMS, feels like you really listen to us , I was getting worried that those other players where right but this gives me hope again.
Probably shouldn't have doubt you that easy.
Have a nice day CCP
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Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:15:00 -
[1103]
On a more specific note regarding the AUR pricing,
CCP tried to establish a anchor item. Its something normal stores also do. Provide an expensive item along with the launch of a new chain of products. When then later that product go's into say a 50% off sale, people will think its cheap, because its only half its initial price. (psychology).
CCP made 2 mistakes howevers.
1. They tried to made EVERY item in the NeX store an anchor item. 2. Because (apart from the monocle) all the other items in the NeX store are things we recognize from our every day lives stores, and the virtual goods are actually more expensive than their real world counterparts, they can never become proper anchor items.
In effect, the trick didn't work, and it had the exact opposite effect.
Had CCP made the T-shirts and Pants more reasonably priced say (3 or 4 dollars) they might have gotten away with their monocle. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
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Freelancer117
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:16:00 -
[1104]
How many Monocles does it cost to fly over the CSM ?
42
apology accepted, lets make up eh ?
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Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:16:00 -
[1105]
i think if ccp were really going sony they wouldnt give this much crap if what comes out of this csm meeting of any worth then i selute u in advance!
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Sniperdoc
Caldari Stargate Kommand
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:18:00 -
[1106]
CCP Zulu,
I don't think that anyone has problems with Micro Transactions (MT). I would hope that most players understand that MT's are ultimately another way for Eve to develop revenue.
Personally, I could care less if someone paid $500 to fly a T3 Battleship (if it is ONLY available through the NEX store). That is their prerogative if they buy a $1000 pair of jeans. :) That to me is not a major game changer. I could be wrong...
I think the issue will be if Eve starts adopting a Pay-2-Win (P2W) paradigm. I think it is a slap in the face to every seasoned Eve veteran if you will allow players to PURCHASE skillpoints, faction standing, sovereignty or anything that changes gameplay in general.
I hope you guys make the right decision. I will drop my subscriptions if Eve goes the P2W route. That is a fact. Drakes ROCK! |
Elrianmk2
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:20:00 -
[1107]
Originally by: mrmooo Ill be giving CCP the benefit of the doubt--
for me the bottom line is
1.Disembark button
2.Vanity items only in the AUR store
Id like to see a bit more talk from CCP about the development of the core game and fixing of issues rather than fluff like incarna
CCP can make this right --the reason for all the outrage and protest is that we are passionate about the game and what CCP have created
My 3 accounts remain subsribed for the time being
Yeah pretty much the same here. Don't boot people out of ships unpodding should take a bit, which is fine but docking and getting out of the ship taking the same amount of time? immersion breaking. No don't delay the dock sequence, keep docking times the same and then unshipping should take a few extra seconds cause if i want to re-ship or refit why the f*** would I get out my pod?
2 accounts still active.
If it wasnt for bad luck, i wouldnt have any luck at all |
Raz Xym
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:21:00 -
[1108]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Abye This smells like a stalling stunt.
Also avoiding a definitive answer to a question posted hundreds of times only makes people more suspicious.
What purpose would it serve, the revenue for a week can't be what they're after...
I believe they want to know the exact reasons why we think what we think, and iron out the policy so it doesn't become a subject of discussion again.
They just want time, in hopes this will go away. Pretty sure that was Pann's first response, to ignore their customers? They truly think they are misunderstood and in the right. After a while we surely will come to our senses, and see Greed is good.
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Erien Rand
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:21:00 -
[1109]
Originally by: Sing Xing
Originally by: Angeliq
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
The reason I believe the model that the creators of BFH used wont work in Eve is that Eve is work. I don't think that you will see a massive influx of casual gamers to Eve. Some would call hi-sec mission runners or miners "casual" (I wouldn't) but even those professions take a good deal of patience and discipline.
The average 12 yr old with mommy's credit card would give up in frustration when he/she couldn't just jump out from behind a corner and pop something with a gold rifle with gold ammo.
Let me say again, Eve is Work(tm), when I need a break from it I go to a game like World of Tanks, I load the game up and jump in a tank. It is instant adrenaline pumping pvp. It is not work. However, it is not Eve. I always seem to come to Eve to "get the job done".
I hope CCP understands the difference between a casual F2P/P2W game and Eve. I hope thet don't try to make Eve into a BFH. We are here for the work and if it gets so easy that a credit card swipe wins the game I think many would leave.
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Orpehus Adalla
Caldari Shiny Toy Guns
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:29:00 -
[1110]
It is just sad what is happening. I have been holding out on passing crazy judgment until lately. Eve has been a great game. I have enjoyed playing it for the tenure of my accounts since around 2007.
I really hate to see this happen. I always felt like Eve was an un-appreciated MMO. Most people would talk about how to address different problems in WOW and LOTRO and I always said...eve did that already. Things like the PLEX system to mitigate RMT coupled with the active hunting of isk sellers for example. One reason CCP was so successful is that even for most of the rage on forums they did listen to players. The business model was based on feeding a group of people almost like colleagues.
Reactions: 1 - RAGE I remember my excitement about WIS/ambulation/incarna 2 years ago at FF when i saw a video of a player walking in a station. I was excited to own my own bar/casino in a 0.0 station catering to Pew Pew players between battles. Now I am not even sure I would be able to afford it because the in station item i presume will all be in AUR currency. Will every bar stool cost me $20. And then afterward will you tell me that's what I should expect to pay in RL?
2- Confusion And when would this be released? a year from now after DUST? A 3 year development cycle seems a bit crazy when i already saw a walking demo 2 years ago. I mean seriously TOR has been developed for 3 years and it's an entire game.
3 - Grief However, I hate to see these dark turn of events. With the leak of the Fearless newsletter I was angry, on top for crazy prices for vanity items. I however was taking a break from the game, thinking my rage would pass soon enough and I would be back to the game. Then the release of the Hilmar email came. I have seen now what some people in CCP believe. I am no longer raging about this, but rather am I disappointed. Disappointed that a company that such a bright future is going to alienate the people that put them there.
4 - Self resolution I do wish EVE online good luck through this turmoil. But however I will with great agony be canceling my accounts. Once they expire in a few months I am not sure I will ever return to EVE. This couldn't have been done at a worse time. With many other Sci-Fi MMOS starting to gain ground people will look elsewhere. I personally am unsure I will ever return.
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:39:00 -
[1111]
Originally by: Sniperdoc Edited by: Sniperdoc on 27/06/2011 14:27:26 CCP Zulu,
I don't think that anyone has problems with Micro Transactions (MT). I would hope that most players understand that MT's are ultimately another way for Eve to develop revenue.
Personally, I could care less if someone paid $500 to fly a T3 Battleship (if it is ONLY available through the NEX store). That is their prerogative if they buy a $1000 pair of jeans. :) That to me is not a major game changer. I could be wrong...
I think the issue will be if Eve starts adopting a Pay-2-Win (P2W) paradigm. I think it is a slap in the face to every seasoned Eve veteran if you will allow players to PURCHASE skillpoints, faction standing, sovereignty or anything that changes gameplay in general.
I hope you guys make the right decision. I will drop my subscriptions if Eve goes the P2W route. That is a fact.
Something else I'd like to address is the comments about the "need for more revenue". In Fearless the staff talked about developing more revenue because it was a way to put more development time towards Eve.
I think you need to look at your priorities here. Your staff complains about development time, and yet you devoted a massive amount of time towards Captains Quarters, a feature that really reduced the overall functionality of being in the station. Not only is it a major resource hog, but many features were left out that made the previous station view easier to navigate.
Furthermore, development time was put towards "moving turrets" and from the dev blog it sounded like it took a lot of effort to get it working just right. I'd like to ask who spends their time zoomed in to their ship while missioning/plexing/pvping? It is my personal opinion that the moving turrets was a wasted effort, wasted cpu resources on the client, and overall waste of time. I spend .01% of the time zoomed in close enough to my ship to see those stupid turrets. So, are you REALLY using your development time wisely or should your staff be fired for wasting money and effort?
I believe it is time for CCP and its developers to look at what makes Eve more efficient and useful. Not wasted and unnecessary features. I think CCP's priorities are highly skewed and some restructuring needs to occur.
My two cents anyways.
QFT Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Macon Squaredealer
Squaredeal Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:45:00 -
[1112]
Originally by: mrmooo Ill be giving CCP the benefit of the doubt--
for me the bottom line is
1.Disembark button
2.Vanity items only in the AUR store
Id like to see a bit more talk from CCP about the development of the core game and fixing of issues rather than fluff like incarna
CCP can make this right --the reason for all the outrage and protest is that we are passionate about the game and what CCP have created
My 3 accounts remain subsribed for the time being
Signed - exactly how I feel also. After they got over the shock of the ... errr "passion" of the players they realize there are some issues to work on, and fences to mend. Fine, I can wait a few days.
I would add that I hope they also include in their discussions setting up a joint working group to study ways to prevent a communication/surprise goat screw like Incarna ever happening again. ___________________________________________ Watch for the Squaredeal Enterprises IPO in the coming months. |
Darius Sokarad
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:45:00 -
[1113]
Originally by: Erien Rand
The reason I believe the model that the creators of BFH used wont work in Eve is that Eve is work. I don't think that you will see a massive influx of casual gamers to Eve. Some would call hi-sec mission runners or miners "casual" (I wouldn't) but even those professions take a good deal of patience and discipline.
The average 12 yr old with mommy's credit card would give up in frustration when he/she couldn't just jump out from behind a corner and pop something with a gold rifle with gold ammo.
Let me say again, Eve is Work(tm), when I need a break from it I go to a game like World of Tanks, I load the game up and jump in a tank. It is instant adrenaline pumping pvp. It is not work. However, it is not Eve. I always seem to come to Eve to "get the job done".
I hope CCP understands the difference between a casual F2P/P2W game and Eve. I hope thet don't try to make Eve into a BFH. We are here for the work and if it gets so easy that a credit card swipe wins the game I think many would leave.
What I think is going to happen is that Eve will be dumbed down to the point of casual players being attracted to the game. I expect the introduction of a class system (at least preselected groups of skills available to the new player along with preselected skill queues much longer than 24 hours). I expect that in game advantage items will be marketed as a way for new players to be competitive with veteran players. I expect that everything that makes Eve wonderful and great will eventually be removed so that the the player base can be expanded to consist mainly of casual players who quickly become bored of the game but are easily replaced with new players.
I expect that Eve will degenerate into nothing more than a name and a memory to differentiate it from a slew of similar games with nothing to offer mature players seeking depth and a commitment from developers that is at least equal to their own.
I expect Eve Online to become a clone of MechQuest, but with slightly better graphics.
Two weeks left on this sub and no sign of anything being being done to stop this decline into insanity. I am not just a paying customer to an amusement park, but an active partner in creating the day to day content. I gladly pay for the privilege to be a partner and to indulge my creative outlet with thousands of others, but I cannot and will not be thought of as just another resource to be mined and tossed aside when I am used up.
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Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:54:00 -
[1114]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
(Chuckles) Well, now!
I guess I'll just...How do you say it in CCP-speak?--Ah, right: Watch what you do, and not what you say, yes?
Because what you say will never, ever, EVER carry even the most infinitesimal scrap of credibility with me ever again, and this will never, ever, EVER again change, regardless of weather I un-sub in the next few weeks, or if I stay on the next 10 years.
Do the English words "credibility," "integrity," and "professionalism" not translate into Icelandic?
Is that all this is, something lost in translation?
Or have you people really crawled that far up the arse of your own success?
I got news for you, OK:
That success is BECAUSE OF US, YOU INCOMPETENT, SMUG, CONDESCENDING, INSUFFERABLY HAUGHTY DOUCHE-BAGS.
Have you crawled so far up the arse of the success we've given you that you are unwilling/unable to see just how laughably, horribly, massively(pardon the pun! On second thought, don't, it might teach you something) you've fail-scaded here? I'm honestly dying to know, because, frankly, this debacle just beggars belief...
Yes, I'm mad, bro. And I'm apparently far from the only one.
It's seriously become too depressing to even log in for more than a few minutes at a time anymore, anyway.
I wish I could have been here for the beginning in 2003--I wish even more that I wouldn't have been here for the whimpering, pathetic, contemptible end in 2011.
Oh, one other thing. Check out Infinity: Quest for Earth one of these days. That's what you could have been if you hadn't prostituted your artistic and professional integrity to Sony. Was it worth it? Tell me in frank and brutal terms: Was it?
Sad...This is so very sad, and so very, very f***ing pathetic...
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Erien Rand
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:54:00 -
[1115]
Originally by: Darius Sokarad Two weeks left on this sub and no sign of anything being being done to stop this decline into insanity. I am not just a paying customer to an amusement park, but an active partner in creating the day to day content. I gladly pay for the privilege to be a partner and to indulge my creative outlet with thousands of others, but I cannot and will not be thought of as just another resource to be mined and tossed aside when I am used up.
Quoted for the hard hitting awesomeness of this statement
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:58:00 -
[1116]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong @Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:
When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:
1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.
2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).
3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)
4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".
5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.
I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.
Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.
I can speak only for myself, but I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).
Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna
4 is a given. 5 as well.
I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.
Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.
I don't think the NEX store can be profitable as it is. To be profitable they'd have to have many low cost items, some mid cost items and then a few high cost items. Right now we just got high cost items. To reach its real potential it would have to be able to be afforded by most everyone that can play and well not everyone can afford 70 dollar monocles.
Having also come from SWG I'd much rather see player made clothing, food, beverages etc for our Walking in Station experience, plus it fits the game style more.
The main problem with NEX is apparently the stuff costs to much and is never destroyed. Yeah I can understand no one buying a 70 dollar monocle that is destructible. But if all you got is 12 items you really limit your sales. A 1 dollar shirt that dies when you clone dies if economical enough that the person will slap another dollar down to get a new one.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 14:58:00 -
[1117]
Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 27/06/2011 15:03:35 a few thoughts..
Personally I like WiS (understandably the matari have crap lighting so i just stand and look at my back), its a great progression and extension of the eve universe (it also runs fine on an old 250 aka 9800series card)
Long time players of eve have had an understanding that WiS would be optional, if you didn¦t want to leave your pod and spinning your ship, you still could, now it isn¦t, everyone is being forced to join Incarna and frankly that was both arrogant and stupid and not only upset the players who provide the real game content but also the grunts within CCP that make and keep the game running, it was a trust betrayed.
WiS/Incarna was developed as an eve expansion, which are highly publicized by CCP as free and adding no cost to players, the reality is not what it was labeled and sold as. NeX is basically another revenue stream, PLEX being written off as pixels is being quite frankly money for nothing once the art and engine are paid for (take liability, package it up and make it disappear via selling pixels to a mug, its the derivatives scandal that crashed the world with a ingenious twist), and we paid the development costs understanding all eve related stuff via the eve client was free to use if specific in game character requirements were met.
If CCP had stuck to their promise that its optional, 90% of the players would have enabled it on at least one account to look; Hey!, there is new and different shiny if u press the ôdepodö button, how could anyone resist a look, its basic human nature. Retention rate would be variable at this stage, but when they added other faction CQ¦s it would rise more, and finally when they open the door out of CQ and there were other people it will be really high.
What it comes down to is CCP need a big PLEX sink so liabilities against CCP are reduced, CCP did not fully understand the enormity of the RMT market that eve had produced it seems. PLEX is genius in so many ways and I can see that CCP want to fund the extra development costs for WiS/WoD by ridding them selves of PLEX liabilities instead of for actual service like connection time to the server, but they should be up front about and and set rigid areas where it can be utilized, make lots of external visual goodies like logo decals for corps, real pointless bling, then progress to contracting and paying for Dust players to do their thing planet side (that will probably need 0.0 being fixed beforehand).
CCP are treading a complex path; Hilmar, THE BOARD WANT TO FOLLOW THE CROWD WITH MT, they aren¦t doing anything new, staying with a subscription at a price level above other¦s is the FEARLESS thing to do with eve which is a UNIQUE PRODUCT, just don¦t test the WoD revenue model in eve its dirtying up the sandbox, do that and you¦ll have a happy cluster..
And yes until CCP explain game plan in grown up terms i¦m un subbed, but atm doing CCP a favor by playing by plex. <edited> but yeah that is cost in cash to you unlike free pixels and a couple of Db entries, so you could be happier </edit>
...... continues overleaf. |
Anah Karah
Drama Llamas
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:02:00 -
[1118]
this is nothing more than a stunt. You haven't ever listened to the CSM before, why would you start now? Also using the words 'gold ammo' is just a roundabout way of not actually using any legally binding words so in future when you start selling items for $$$ and people call bull**** u can point out that, "Actually, we never said that...if you look carefully at this phrase..." BLA BLA BLA.
It seems that you really dont care how many members you lose over incarna, in fact everybody who has CQ turned off, is literally being shown the door. How many are going to take it before you stop pulling stunts and actually listen?
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GoodOleBoy
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:38:00 -
[1119]
Well written Zulu. I agree that info taken out of context is no info at all. However, remember that actions speak louder than words and silence will always be filled by someone. Please ensure that a devblog, press release or some form of communication comes out on 2 JUL. Also, don't NDA the CSM after the meeting. Let them speak their thoughts and tell how it really is. If your company passes the common sense test and the majority of the CSM agrees with the COLLECTIVE CCP/CSM decision on how to address the Incarna issues, then you'll have enough friendly "official" voices filling the current silence to recover from this. If that doesn't happen the future of your company is at risk. Not a threat, especially since many like me will probably stick around for months until yearly subs run out, but a simple fact. Alienate the vets and alliances will fall apart. Once than happens, the core that you've built this game on will follow and the whole thing will begin to circle the toilet. I still like EVE so please don't let that happen.
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Koronakesh
Amarr Seekers of a Silent Paradise
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:38:00 -
[1120]
VnV Nation - The Farthest Star This is our theme song right now, ccp ::love::
The will to greatness clouds the mind Consumes the senses, veils the signs We each are meant to recognize. Redeeming graces cast aside Enduring notions, new found promise, That the end will never come.
We live in times when all seems lost, But time will come when we'll look back, Upon ourselves and on our failings.
Embrace the void even closer still, Erase your doubts as you surrender everything:
We possess the power, If this should start to fall apart, To mend divides, To change the world, To reach the farthest star. If we should stay silent. If fear should win our hearts, Our light will have long diminished, Before it reaches the farthest star.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps Enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come. From a time when all seems lost, From a dead man to a world. Without restraint, unafraid and free.
We possess the power, If this should start to fall apart, To mend divides, To change the world, To reach the farthest star. If we should stay silent. If fear should win our hearts, Our light will have long diminished, Before it reaches the farthest star.
If we fall and break, All the tears in the world cannot make us whole... again.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:52:00 -
[1121]
The clamps are on PHASE 2 begins.
Blocking users on youtube to clean up videos. Next banning users who spoke up. Then the new forums. All is sweet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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islador
Gallente Frontier Explorer's League
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:57:00 -
[1122]
I'll wait to see what you do, your words are meaningless to me.
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Randolph Meza
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:00:00 -
[1123]
Haven't they sold ships (shuttle?) and faction standings before with the boxed Eve client?
Also, I can buy a titan pilot and titan right now for isk. Quit crying.
"but but but"
Again, quit crying. HTFU. 90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:14:00 -
[1124]
Originally by: Randolph Meza 90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.
Have to call that out. Ships are made in highsec occasionally. With minerals and stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Gethis Stark
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:15:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: Randolph Meza Haven't they sold ships (shuttle?) and faction standings before with the boxed Eve client?
Also, I can buy a titan pilot and titan right now for isk. Quit crying.
"but but but"
Again, quit crying. HTFU. 90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.
Aaand this make your opinion worth what? Every subscribers opinion counts just cause you have a different game play style doesn't make you right, comments like that just make you pretentious.
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Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:16:00 -
[1126]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Not a problem. We have CCP Xhagen on our side. Those who have seen him will understand. He's a full-on Viking Berserker with a mohawk.
Also, the main conference room is easily defensible, we could hold out in there for weeks.
From reading your blogs, as long as CCP don't manage to bribe Mittens with bacon, I think you'll do fine
Looking forward to hear how the session goes. Save our EVE ___________________________________________ Incarna made me into a forum whiner :'(
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:17:00 -
[1127]
CCP has always seemed to be generally run by good people. I'll wait to hear what comes out of the CSM meeting.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:19:00 -
[1128]
CCP's thought process:
Micro-transactions are the new hip billing concept!
Design pretty clothes and boobies to support them.
Now we can have micro-transactions!
Releases 70 dollar monocles.
These dudes get it guys. We'd better just let them run with it, since they understand games and marketing in general so much better than us.
Dear CCP, every other MT based group of devs are laughing at you. You're trying to implement a concept that you obviously don't understand in the slightest. You really, really just don't ****ing get it do you?
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Xantor Bludberry
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:19:00 -
[1129]
CCP, you f....ing killinh whole Eve`s BACKSTORY!!
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Lolmer
Amarr Merciless Reckoning
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:20:00 -
[1130]
Edited by: Lolmer on 27/06/2011 16:22:50 Edited by: Lolmer on 27/06/2011 16:22:13
Originally by: CCP Zulu ...there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."
Yes, we've heard that before when we were told there would be no microtransactions in this game, and that faction warfare would be iterated on, and that Captain's Quarters would be optional, and that ... need I go on?
Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk, then maybe we'll trust you again. Perhaps if you (as a company, not you CCP Zulu in particular) didn't have a reputation for not honouring your prior statements the Fearless release wouldn't have caused such a stir. We'd also be more inclined to believe that these are just suppositions and theorycrafting with no intention of going all out, but then, read the beginning of my post again.
Personally, I still like CCP Soundwave and think he's great for the game, even though I don't agree with all of his opinions. :)
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Rilliankar Khan
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:26:00 -
[1131]
Mr. Gylfason, your blog means nothing more than you're trying to buy more time.
Quote: I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect
Trust and respect are broken since the moment you began to watch us as wallets to be drain. Depending on how much you will DO to restore that trust, it might be partially repaired to some level.
Quote: there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
You're not addressing the problem. What about "gold ships", "gold mods", "gold standings", "gold super-caps"? You have to say: "there are no and NEVER WILL BE ANY plans to sell non-vanity items and/or services that put in disadvantage some customers in benefit of other ones".
Quote: The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE.
This means you DO have plans to sell non-vanity items and services, and you want to NEGOTIATE that with CSM. This means you were lying some lines before in the same blog. Really want to repair mutual trust?
If you want to buy time so be it, but the game will suffer from this. No goods will be produced for the market, accounts will be closed, etc etc.
Time is ticking.
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Tek Handle
Biotronics Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:35:00 -
[1132]
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Cyberus
Caldari Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:39:00 -
[1133]
It's 2late Apoligize ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout |
Shandir
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:00:00 -
[1134]
Originally by: Nali Kceb I am delighted to hear you have a meeting with your CMS about this.
Customer Management System. Typo, or freudian slip - you decide. -
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Edward Aivo
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:13:00 -
[1135]
Originally by: Lyrrashae Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:08:21 Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:05:23 Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:03:12 Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:00:24 Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 14:57:37
Originally by: CCP Fallout Read Zulu's newest dev blog here
DE RU
Do the English words "credibility," "integrity," and "professionalism" not translate into Icelandic?
I assure you that those words do translate to icelandic, and here they are: "tr·ver=ugleiki"= direct translation is "worth of belief", "hei=arleiki", and "atvinnumennska". Just trying to help :D
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Sheila Sarani
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:14:00 -
[1136]
Edited by: Sheila Sarani on 27/06/2011 17:14:59 I would prefer ccp sell eve to sony than introduce non vanity items.
At least there isnt 100% sure sony would destroy eve
And that is telling a lot as im SWG refugee |
jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:36:00 -
[1137]
Edited by: jackaloped on 27/06/2011 17:41:02 CSM PR STUNT
This is just amazing. So you need to talk to mittani and company to decide what the players think of non vanity items being sold as mt? Until you consult with them you don't know what the players think?
Please don't even try to turn this into some fluff piece about how well CCP listens to the players through the csm. You guys are too much to stomach.
Originally by: Shandir
Originally by: Nali Kceb I am delighted to hear you have a meeting with your CMS about this.
Customer Management System. Typo, or freudian slip - you decide.
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Frye Urass
Ghost Militia SRS.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:41:00 -
[1138]
I believe that this whole thing has to do with The deal with Sony and Dust 514.
Why did Sony really get the exclusive?...XBOX would have been more logical the choice, most likely as it is has a much border player base.
So CCP did you sell us out to Sony?, because MT has to be apart of that deal, and you must tie it into EVE?
AUR being the Dust Currency, and for EVE players to interact with them...ie. Hiring Dust Mercs to squash our EVE Rivals has to be paid in AUR,
So with Incarna, (not really being about WIS, as previously purposed) I mean all these years you have been developing Incarna, you can only model 1 friggin" room for the avatars... Please..is your development staff been on extended vacation our something?
The real Incarna now show's it's ugly head,with your loyal customer base being sold out to Sony ,and diverted to the new Micro Transactions pay model.
So instead of coming clean with the EVE Community, you just try to sneak one by us, thinkin' OH hell they won't mind, They will probably want a little more Bling.
Whatever the real deal is with Dust and Sony, is no real concern, as far as CCP, you can run your business as you see fit. After all it is your Business, but when you just totally turn your backs on your bread and butter.to go after some "Golden Carrot" for future revenue, What did you expect we would do... just lie down like dogs and wag our tails....Give us a Break will ya.
Personally I think you have too much faith in the fact Dust514 somehow is going to be some sort of saving grace for CCP. I mean you don't actually believe EA and the other FPS game developers (With established,and proven Titles) are gonna just lay down and allow CCP to muscle in on their Market Share do you. Maybe your new Buddy Sony can help you out with that!
Good Luck....CCP
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:41:00 -
[1139]
DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this Dev Blog do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP
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M4sterm1nd
The Grimreapers. Destiny Corrupted.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:43:00 -
[1140]
Jezus.... just watched that Pay2Win presentation. I really wouldn't have expected this, but I now support P2W in Eve.
The theoretical basis is sound, and as one of the players that is looking forward to beating "the fat banker with the advantage-giving wheels" I say kudos to CCP for taking such a daring step for the sake of their company.
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InUrJita CheckinUrPrice
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:43:00 -
[1141]
Sorry Zulu, but I've already dumped you. I know it's hard to lose that kind of relationship, especially when I'm the one who always pays for lunch, but I couldn't handle the deception, the talking with other games behind my back, and your generally dismissive attitude toward my feelings. I've started seeing other games, and you aren't one of them anymore.
tl;dr:
C U IN PERP.
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Chip Packer
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:48:00 -
[1142]
Zulu, Fallout. Shhh. Let it blow over. Sometimes it's better to say nothing. You're first post did not need another one or an apology. It was fine. Right now, you're just feeding the emotion. Let everything settle in peoples minds. Some people are so emotional on this that they aren't going to listen anyway. Continue to be fearless and talk about what needs to be talked about.
All the Best, Chip
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000Freedom Fighter000
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:52:00 -
[1143]
Much better response, thanks Zulu. I look forward to seeing how the situation develops, and how the EVE playerbase responds to actions taken from now onwards.
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Elina Tan
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:01:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: jackaloped
CSM PR STUNT
(...)
Please don't even try to turn this into some fluff piece about how well CCP listens to the players through the csm. You guys are too much to stomach.
Cut 'em some slack, will ya? Of course CCP aren't going to debate the matter with each and every individual posting here -- and even in my angriest hour I wasn't expecting them to. The CSM officially speaks for the EVE players, that's just how it works, and it's a fair arrangement. And since the CSM has made clear, on several occasions, to be eminently aware of the real issues, doh, you can safely take off your tinfoil hat now. :)
Do I fully trust CCP again? Not really, no; but I trust that the message finally got thru to them: either because of the bad publicity, or because of what we wrote here -- it doesn't matter, really (except maybe for a few bruised egos).
Where CCP will take EVE in the future, only they know (and maybe not even that). I trust in the CSM enough, though, to let CCP know in which direction we, the people, don't want to see EVE go. And should the outcome of it all be that CCP goes ahead with pay-to-win items regardless, then I'll trust the CSM to communicate that bad news to us as well.
So, nothing left for me than to just sit back a week and wait what word returns from Iceland. It's going to be an interesting set of meetings, at least, of that I'm sure. :)
P.S. I'm getting the impression some folks just want to stay angry now for the sake of being angry. Your choice, I guess, but I fear you're rapidly losing the moral high ground. The man said they know what the issue is, and that they'll discuss it with our representative body, the CSM. Anger beyond that, or until alleged negative results are back, is either overdone or premature.
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Karadan Kaarwen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:30:00 -
[1145]
I still see a lot of needless foaming going on here. Regardless of what has happened so far (most of which has been based upon conjecture and hot air) surely it's prudent to wait until there's concrete confirmation either way?
All these leaks have done is damage a company which makes a game many of us very much like. If some internal musings from the organisation i work for were to be made public, all hell would break loose. They aren't for public consumption because they aren't yet formally drawn up. None of the legal or technical stuff has been worked out and tests haven't yet been performed. The premature publication of it could mean the end of mine and all my colleagues' careers. This is why corporate privacy is a good thing and in the case of CCP, a tragedy that it's been broken in such spectacular fashion. Someone deserves to get their asses sued.
It is for this reason alone i hold any judgement of CCP until i see something concrete. I did the same thing when i was screwed by SOE with SWG's new game enhancements. I left the hyperbole until the announcement - THEN i kicked off.
I just feel that when real information is eventually submitted, an apology will probably not be forthcoming from the huge amount of you that have got it so catastrophically incorrect so far. Having been at the unfair receiving end of the braying mob before, i can attest to the frustration-fuelled nausea probably being felt by the majority of CCP right now.
Anyway, I'm just going to chillax and play the game until we hear more. Sounds like a lot of you need to do the same.
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Mechatronicus Anihilus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:39:00 -
[1146]
Quote: It is for this reason alone i hold any judgement of CCP until i see something concrete.
A lot of players have already seen something concrete that they do not like and are in the process of letting CCP know this.
Quote: I still see a lot of needless foaming going on here.
Of course. People who have been repeatedly lied to and mislead by someone they are paying have no right to be angry. Those customers silly enough to be displeased should just quietly go on about their business, elsewhere. Instead, they foul up the purity of your eve existence with their complaints. How dare they...
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Enkill Eridos
Draconian Enforcers Available To Hire Massive Dynamic Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:41:00 -
[1147]
Okay wow..after an appropriate response you losers are still trying cling onto the mob mentality. The people defending CCP, and those with some actual knowledge of the process of designing a video game trying to help out. You know what? If after all this with this well written clear response, you morons are still going on about nex is going to sell sp and other things. It's gotten old and the player's are ruining the game for me before CCP even has a chance to.
For those complaining that CCP has taken less time addressing "game breaking issues" and more time on RP stuff. My response is RP (Role Play) is one thing that is almost absent from EVE. I mean if a person wants to RP currently in a massive fleet or what not. You either have to be loyal to a certain cause, or part of a militia. I have seen very few actual rp happening in EVE. News Flash: RP is not equal to being a carebear. Just like mining does not equal carebear. I know a lot of pvpers that mine because it makes them more money "faster".
With Incarna only just released, which means they are probably working on stuff like station environments so we can leave our cramped CQ's, which I think all Incarna is is updating EVE Online so EVE Online players could physically interact with DUST Players. Those talking about being force fed the new system instead of keeping the crappy outdated old system. Change happens and sometimes you just can't go back, and you can't always get what you want. I have been writing letters for years asking these stereo making companies to make updated record players. The response I got above was the one I posted about change. PVP enhancements, I may be cynical, but I feel that those will not be noticable untill DUST comes out. I mean programming a video game engine is difficult and time consuming, it takes time to find where in the code a bug is, and takes even more time identifying the bugs that a bug fix creates. (Sometimes it happens.) I happen to think they are doing a good job, and I am patient. I mean when they removed learning skills I didn't try and start a mob protest. I understood that the older players just wanted to make things even more difficult for new players. I mean for gamers you people protesting do not have a grasp on the game design process. So, for the second time since this started im gonna say it. I told you so...stop overreacting and be patient. Being a customer does not mean you are always right. Growing up in a family that is apart of a service industry I can tell you 99% of the time the customer is wrong. Only in Disneyworld and Disneyland is the customer always right.
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Ehnea Mehk
Minmatar ODATRIK Integrated Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:48:00 -
[1148]
This blog post was a good start. I'm willing to give CCP and CSM a chance to work it out June 30th and July 1st. Let's just wait and see what they hammer out, okay?
Ehnea Ehnea Mehk
ODATRIK Integrated Solutions |
Casey Roy
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:48:00 -
[1149]
Originally by: Enkill Eridos
For those complaining that CCP has taken less time addressing "game breaking issues" and more time on RP stuff. My response is RP (Role Play) is one thing that is almost absent from EVE.
Good idea. Let's get some role players like Enkill involved in Eve.
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Vincentus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:50:00 -
[1150]
Originally by: Vincentus Edited by: Vincentus on 26/06/2011 19:44:39 Well, I'm glad you guys finally made a serious commitment to communicate with your customers, and from the tone of your blog I feel like you people have finally realized you have a serious problem on your hands. I am worried about the wording of the gold ammo sentence, as it seems to me that it is obvious that it would have been a lot easier and clearer if you had just said non-vanity items. Inviting the CSM gives me hope however, and I sincerely hope you listen to them. It's in your own interest...
I have 8 days of subscription left, so you have until then to convince me of your good intentions. I will cease protesting and posting here, but please realize I'm not going to make an effort to get the message through again, and that if you screw up again I'm gone without saying another word, and you can add another 3 accounts to the 4000 that are gone and not going to return. Best of luck, I really hope all of this works out.
Sorry, still posting now and then cause some of the discussions are just too interesting...Sorry I lied CCP
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Karadan Kaarwen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:51:00 -
[1151]
Edited by: Karadan Kaarwen on 27/06/2011 18:51:36
Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus
A lot of players have already seen something concrete that they do not like and are in the process of letting CCP know this.
By something concrete you mean the leaked INTERNAL memos not for public consumption? That is exactly my point.. That stuff is supposed to be private.
Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus
Of course. People who have been repeatedly lied to and mislead by someone they are paying have no right to be angry. Those customers silly enough to be displeased should just quietly go on about their business, elsewhere. Instead, they foul up the purity of your eve existence with their complaints. How dare they...
Again, complaints based upon internal memos... I'm not saying people don't have the right to be angry. I'm just saying they need to be angry at the right time - with concrete facts. If this information does actually come to fruition, then sure, voice your opinion loudly (as will i) then close your account (as will i).
Customers don't need to hear EVERYTHING which is said about them. If they did, there would be no service industry. The same can be said of people. How many people would really like to know everything everyone thinks about them? Unless you're the most thick skinned person in the universe, you'd want to turn that ability off within minutes.
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Mechatronicus Anihilus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:52:00 -
[1152]
Originally by: Enkill Eridos Growing up in a family that is apart of a service industry I can tell you 99% of the time the customer is wrong.
Being part of a family that owns a service industry, I can tell you it doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right. What matters is keeping the customer. |
Mechatronicus Anihilus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:01:00 -
[1153]
Edited by: Mechatronicus Anihilus on 27/06/2011 19:02:21
Quote: By something concrete you mean the leaked INTERNAL memos not for public consumption? That is exactly my point.. That stuff is supposed to be private.
Those are just the icing on the cake.
Quote: Again, complaints based upon internal memos... I'm not saying people don't have the right to be angry.
Yes you did. Did you or did you not just say "I see a lot of needless foaming going on here"? Foaming being an expression of anger, and needless being a word meaning unnecessary.
You are the fastest flipflopper in the West, speeding in a C-squared blur past CCP's vow of "NO MT in EVE" to the series of PR disasters commonly known as the Icarna release. |
Karadan Kaarwen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:09:00 -
[1154]
Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus
Originally by: Enkill Eridos Growing up in a family that is apart of a service industry I can tell you 99% of the time the customer is wrong.
Being part of a family that owns a service industry, I can tell you it doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right. What matters is keeping the customer.
Exactly! That's why internal company secrets need to stay that way. Even though many customers are douchebags, the business serving them would never call them so to their face. It makes no sense.
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Karadan Kaarwen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:14:00 -
[1155]
Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus
Yes you did. Did you or did you not just say "I see a lot of needless foaming going on here"? Foaming being an expression of anger, and needless being a word meaning unnecessary.
Needless for now, yes, because of what i've stated above. I think you need to re-read what i've typed so that you can fully digest its intonation.
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Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:29:00 -
[1156]
Originally by: Karadan Kaarwen
Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus
Yes you did. Did you or did you not just say "I see a lot of needless foaming going on here"? Foaming being an expression of anger, and needless being a word meaning unnecessary.
Needless for now, yes, because of what i've stated above. I think you need to re-read what i've typed so that you can fully digest its intonation.
Wow, it's a really great thing you came by here to clear all this up. We can now quietly retire, having bathed in the light of reason.
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Mechatronicus Anihilus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:30:00 -
[1157]
Quote:
Exactly! That's why internal company secrets need to stay that way. Even though many customers are douchebags, the business serving them would never call them so to their face. It makes no sense.
Douchebaggery abounds-there is no shortage of it, nor is it soley within the mere confines of an internal memo.
Quote: Needless for now, yes, because of what i've stated above. I think you need to re-read what i've typed so that you can fully digest its intonation.
I digested your about-face about as well as I'd care to. I would rather not regurgitate more about-faces for me to re-digest. You flip-flopped and don't want to admit it. That's fine. It's something you and CCP have in common, and rather than admit it, you want to point to some leaked memo as the culprit. I'll give you an A for effort because you are trying very hard, and an F for execution, because you are failing just as miserably.
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Aloh
Gallente Royal Black Watch Highlanders
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:37:00 -
[1158]
Ok now some interesting questions, What about the CSMs that were perma banned for pointing this out to the community? Does that apology extend to them as well? Are their accounts going to be reinstated (assuming they still want them)? They did not release the material rather just linked to it. IF that is covered by the NDA then how can we believe that the CSMs are going to be allowed to tell us the truth after the summit?
Also I have seen references to GMs threatening protesters shooting the Jita Monument stating that they were going to change their Caldari standings to -10. Add in the statements that MT was not going to be in the game. The forcing of CQ even though it is harming *hardware* that is well with in the minimum specs. The fact that quad core Phenom boxes are going to 40% CPU utilization running ONE client. Totally unacceptable behavior. Is this kind of thing being addressed as well?
You speak of trust I have highlighted a few examples of things that have been done that would weaken that. For the record I don't have issues with MT for Vanity items. And I really don't have issues with even vanity ships that have the same stats as the ships they were cloned from. At your price point my indy has nothing to worry about in his sales. I get CCP wanting/needing to make more money. And I am fine with vanity sales. If you are going to make changes to the game just be honest about it. And don't make code that is not even really alpha ready mandatory.
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raker
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:47:00 -
[1159]
We have made our point, CCP now know the playerbase arent happy and they know they need to act
They have called a meeting and Im sure they realise that this meeting has to iron out the issues raised and they need to be seen to act on the outcome of that meeting
They know thier business could hang on that meeting
So I feel we should wait to see the outcome of that meeting and then judge CCP by it's actions |
Seamus Odoone
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:01:00 -
[1160]
All I can say is thanks to Zulu for realising what he had done wrong and clarified stuff with us in a good communicative way. Look forward to what happens next and hope hate posts will stop now as they can go somewhere else if they feel that way.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:04:00 -
[1161]
Originally by: Karadan Kaarwen It is for this reason alone i hold any judgement of CCP until i see something concrete. I did the same thing when i was screwed by SOE with SWG's new game enhancements. I left the hyperbole until the announcement - THEN i kicked off.
And how did that work out for you?
We don't know exactly what motivated the leak, but a real possibility is that someone had a legitimate concern about the direction in which CCP is taking us, and hoped to give players a voice in changing that direction before it's too late.
The Fearless newsletter tells us, if nothing else, that CCP is interested in pursuing non-vanity MT -- else why even discuss it as an exaggerated hypothetical? The implementation details of CQ also suggest that CCP has adopted a worrying set of priorities -- that they're willing to sacrifice consistency with game fiction and usability in favor of improving virtual goods sales.
So what this leak has done is given us a chance, maybe, to respond before this interest has a chance to develop into CCP's intended course of action and become an actual plan to implement those intentions. I have a hard time thinking poorly of the source of the leak for gving us this opportunity and intend to capitalize on it any way I can.
I don't pretend to know with any certainty about where they are on the "interest" to "plan" continuum but I do know one thing:
They could have defused much of the controversy quite quickly and easily by announcing that they still have no intention at all of pursuing non-vanity MT.
Instead their initial response was to ignore the newsletter and the non-vanity items (CCP Pann's post under general discussion).
Then Zulu posted a dev blog that again failed to address the primary concern about MT, but instead talked about NEX pricing and talked generally about what Fearless is supposed to be.
Then he finally said that there are "no plans" for "gold ammo" but wants to discuss how to "evolve" their MT strategy with the CSM. This gets to our primary concern at least and offers a ray of hope, but seems to leave a lot of wiggle room and doesn't do much to dispel my concern that CCP wants very badly to implement non-vanity virtual goods and is just looking for a way to do it that allows them to keep the bittervets around as long as possible.
And no, I probably won't apologize if my primary concerns are addressed, because CCP could have easily set me at ease with competent and honest PR if indeed my concerns are ill-founded. I will, however, thank CCP for doing the right thing, if belatedly.
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:08:00 -
[1162]
Originally by: Elina Tan So, nothing left for me than to just sit back a week and wait what word returns from Iceland. It's going to be an interesting set of meetings, at least, of that I'm sure. :)
CSM PR STUNT
CCP will meet with CSM and CCP will claim that this was a very beneficial meeting. CCP will talk about how better informed they are about the players position thanks to csm and how that information that they got from this csm meeting lead them to change "x" about their plans.
Will they acknowledge this forum outrage had anything to do with it? CCP will just say that was only part of it but meeting with CSM was also important - somehow.
The fact that they will meet with CSM and not hear a single thing from csm that they have not already heard in these forums will not be publicized at all.
OK CSM must be made into a white knight so it doesn't appear to be some publicity tool. This is a great opportunity to show how ccp listens to players via the csm.
The only problem is they canÆt claim what a success the CSM meeting was until they actually have the meeting. So we need to wait until after this meeting then we will hear what they decided to do in light of the forum outrage. But the actual meeting wonÆt change a thing.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:19:00 -
[1163]
Originally by: M4sterm1nd Jezus.... just watched that Pay2Win presentation. I really wouldn't have expected this, but I now support P2W in Eve.
The theoretical basis is sound, and as one of the players that is looking forward to beating "the fat banker with the advantage-giving wheels" I say kudos to CCP for taking such a daring step for the sake of their company.
you just don¦t understand..... and sad thing is you probably never will
...... continues overleaf. |
Rusty Rush
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:36:00 -
[1164]
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Marius Rousseau
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:52:00 -
[1165]
Given the recent events I think it's time that we had a written constitution, a binding social contract between the developers and the players. Eve is a virtual world and CCP like it or not is the defacto government. As citizens of eve we need a constitution so that we can hold CCP to account and ensure that our virtual world develops and progresses in manner that meets everyone's needs including the needs of the developer (read government) to earn more money or raise a little extra cash provided that it doesnt come at the expense of game balance. What we need is security and safe knowledge that the game that we all know and love is worth investing in both finacially and morally. That we can make bets on the future and know in advance what significant changes are planned and approved by the majority of the player base as a whole.
I've mentioned before there are some things yet to be developed that I would happily splash out a little cash for every now and again, so I'm not adverse to spending more money, but I am adverse to pay to win or pay to change the balance of power or pay to unlock features that we used to get for free etc.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.06.27 21:39:00 -
[1166]
Originally by: Marius Rousseau Given the recent events I think it's time that we had a written constitution, a binding social contract between the developers and the players. Eve is a virtual world and CCP like it or not is the defacto government. As citizens of eve we need a constitution so that we can hold CCP to account and ensure that our virtual world develops and progresses in manner that meets everyone's needs including the needs of the developer (read government) to earn more money or raise a little extra cash provided that it doesnt come at the expense of game balance. What we need is security and safe knowledge that the game that we all know and love is worth investing in both finacially and morally. That we can make bets on the future and know in advance what significant changes are planned and approved by the majority of the player base as a whole.
I've mentioned before there are some things yet to be developed that I would happily splash out a little cash for every now and again, so I'm not adverse to spending more money, but I am adverse to pay to win or pay to change the balance of power or pay to unlock features that we used to get for free etc.
Not spending my subscription dollars on a game I can't play would be a start.
Not spending development effort on features no one wants
Not introducing methods of cheating by paying cash
Focussing on gameplay, fixing stuff, improving and enriching content, before new features.
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Angst IronShard
Minmatar Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.06.27 21:51:00 -
[1167]
Your past lacks of transparency and communication did too much wrong feelings at me actually to still enjoy playing the game. You looked for it; one week for trying to be honest throught this blog. There was no flies on me. Maybe I'll come back after christmas depending how the game will be heading to. o7 . ____________________________________________ Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better. |
Calvin Sheng
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Posted - 2011.06.27 21:56:00 -
[1168]
I'm relatively new here, so I don't fully understand the need for all this vitriol. It seems there is a long history of politics involved, and quite frankly, I don't know enough about it to comment. However, I did want to weigh in on the idea of creating a new currency. The basic idea looks simple: CCP wants more money, which they plan to earn by selling a lot more PLEXes. Two thoughts:
1. Currently with PLEX, we have defined the value of 30 days of game time. Why not attach a value to remaps (perhaps 2 per PLEX)? This will give people a very good reason to buy a PLEX, which translates into dollars for CCP. Further, people with a lot of real money will benefit the overall economy by motivating people with a lot of game time to contribute even more to the economy. This idea can be expanded upon with some creative thought.
2. Instead of vanity items for Aurum, why not allow players to manufacture and sell (on the marker for ISK) their own clothing using combinations of materials? "Blueprints" can require materials ranging in cost from very cheap to extremely expensive. The people who want the very expensive things can buy a PLEX for the cash or benefit the overall economy through work.
I work with finances every day in RL, and it seems to me that everyone (CCP and users) has spent a great deal of time building upon the connection between ISK and real money. The result so far seems to be a very solid player-driven economy, which no other game can compare to. If CCP wants to make more money (and they should!), the best option seems to be giving people more and better reasons to buy a PLEX. Having too many currency systems is bad overall economic policy, plain and simple, and doesn't do justice to the time everyone has spent on the current economy.
No matter what happens, though, the basic game itself is very fun to play. I encourage people to discuss things calmly and not do things that hurt other fellow players.
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DNSBlacks Arazu
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Posted - 2011.06.27 22:02:00 -
[1169]
How is having the CSM, a body of people that CCP has never given a serious moment of time to, going to solve anything. Trying to convince a group of individuals to calm the masses without doing anything of significance is a waste of time and money. How many ideas has the CSM put to CCP that were given any serious thought to? I would be surprised if they implemented any idea other than T2 salvagers.
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 22:23:00 -
[1170]
Originally by: Enkill Eridos Okay wow..after an appropriate response you losers are still trying cling onto the mob mentality...
The response did not say that CCP will only sell vanity items in the store. Without that one specific piece of info, the response was totally inadequate. And as the leaked email makes clear the only thing they will listen to is people quitting. If we don't quit, they'll do what they want.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.27 22:27:00 -
[1171]
Edited by: Kerfira on 27/06/2011 22:27:28 So essentially, the answer to: "Are you moving beyond pay-for-vanity-items?" is still: "We don't want to repeat the promise we made before! We don't even want to MENTION the question so many players have asked!"
It would have been so easy... Just a simple 'No' would have sufficed. Instead, you try to buy time by calling in the CSM, then saying that you'll not talk any more...
My trust in what you say? Gone!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.27 22:53:00 -
[1172]
Why did you have to introduce a second currency at all? We have the ISK for everything inside the game so far. What you are doing with the AUR is - to put it plainly - bull****.
So 1 Plex is about 400 million ISK It is 3500 AUR for one PLEX. That means we got 1 AUR equal to about 114285 ISK. So why don't you just cut the crap and call the Women's 'Sterling' Dress Blouse (Dust) by it's price? It costs 3200 AUR. That's 365,712k ISK.
We are the players. We are the ones making sure you have a job. So stop giving us discrimination and double standard bull****. K Thx Bye. --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:10:00 -
[1173]
gets looks at books, ah, ok, i see the issue now, you need about 9 million dollars by October and another 18m to get dust and wod complete.
CCP is breaking the game to survive basically
...... continues overleaf. |
shar Depran
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:19:00 -
[1174]
Hmm So they have shipped out the CSM to Iceland for a meet have they, my guess is that someone with the financial sense to see what the loss of 4k in multiple player accounts in real terms has told these arrogant jerks to cool it and work the problem.
Yes players do pay for this game in hard cash and like anyone undertaking such a transaction they have a right to complain when the product they receive is not fit for purpose and as we have seen on so many levels this latest update is just that.
But in my opinion it is the total lack of additional game input in this update that has caused the initial uproar about it, in fact it detracts from game enjoyment in so many areas and should have always been designed with an æOFFÆ switch that allowed players to continue to enjoy the game as they always have or should they wish it, go trudging around some bleak dungeon or corridor with a bland figure that seems to have a bad case of dandruff from the number of times it rubs the back of itÆs head.
As for the ætrinketÆ store, no problem with that at all, as long as it does not sell game changing items ever let CCP have it, I for one have no use for it, would never consider using it and were I forced to do so three accounts would go dormant as of the next months payment, along with the others used by members of this household, about ten in total for two players, leave you to do the math CCP.
So what do I want too see, simple really.
1, and æOffÆ switch for this silly WiS feature.
2. No game changing items in your trinket store.
3. CCP to sort the myriad bugs already existent in the game.
TTFN
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Nath Blazek
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:28:00 -
[1175]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo gets looks at books, ah, ok, i see the issue now, you need about 9 million dollars by October and another 18m to get dust and wod complete.
CCP is breaking the game to survive basically
AKA Cutting off your nose to spite your face! -
o7
Of Course!
/me hangs head |
Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:38:00 -
[1176]
Originally by: Aloh The fact that quad core Phenom boxes are going to 40% CPU utilization running ONE client.
Wait. What? I haven't noticed this on my Phenom II 965. Will be checking my CPU and GPU readbacks when I get off work in 12 hours. So this post reserved.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Ein Spiegel
Minmatar Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:43:00 -
[1177]
To the members of the CSM, on your invitation to an emergency meeting...
1) Ensure that your return flight has been booked, in advance, and is non-refundable. (This close to travel, the non-refundable part is probably a given.) 2) Hang on to your passports. Just, y'know. In case. 3) Keep an eye on the north of the country... if the universe is conspiring against Eve, Grimsvoten or Eyafjallaj÷kull could make your flight itinerary all kinds of fun.
Just kidding. Still, keep your eyes open, keep your spines strong, and make sure you all get back. (Except, maybe, for themittani. If someone has to be sacrificed, Mittens works for me.)
Let me also add my call for near instantaneous minutes of substance posted, if not at the end of the day, then by 2 days after the summit ends. Enjoy the trip, and yeah... if CCP offers hookers, booze, and fermented shark products... go ahead, but not until after the meeting.
o7
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:44:00 -
[1178]
Originally by: Jannx Is the meeting likely to be minuted? And will we be able so see the minutes if it is?
The sessions will be recorded as usual and minutes will be prepared. It is my intention to get them out in record time.
Originally by: Desert Ice78 Please abstain from alcohol and/ or drugs and/ or hookers for the duration of your stay.
I do not drink or do drugs, but no hookers? You heartless bastard!
Originally by: Pierced Brosmen From reading your blogs, as long as CCP don't manage to bribe Mittens with bacon, I think you'll do fine
I regret to report that I am now on a low-carb diet, so bacon is looking mighty good to me at this point.
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Ef Ahak
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Posted - 2011.06.28 00:01:00 -
[1179]
Edited by: Ef Ahak on 28/06/2011 00:04:05 The financial situation is indeed a big problem here... Usually, when 'a game' gets bashed by the player base and people complain on "they have all their staff working on [insert equivalent to dust] and don't give a ****", I personally take that with a grain of salt.
EVE and the current situation, however, is the first game with a 'loud clientele' I've seen where I actually have to agree. Seriously - some of the new content (graphical) seems like a high-school project. With the 'patch' where the 2D part of the UI was translated into 3D, someone did a not-top-notch job. Case temp literally doubled.
If you look closely on the UI icons (the shortcut ones, F1 et al), you will actually see edges of the square graphical object (I am talking outside the circle shape), as well as sometimes the ortoghonal vector to the "rate of fire"/activity circling on the same icons.
Do I suffer from this? No, ofc not. It doesn't really change the gameplay. It does - however - sta(t/k)e a painful confirmation of lack of ordinary staff developing the content. It borders sloppy - no more, no less. And for the first time in a large community game, I take the "the staff is busy working on Dust and the janitor was given a 'Beginner's guide to HLSL' to complete Incarna content"-cries as more true than usual.
I hope a dedicated team continue to work on EVE development. The new graphic issues - both the visible ones and the coding-efficiency ones do not reflect what one would expect from the EVE team.
On the MT issue - I am against MTs generally, but don't care as long as it is kept to vanity items. I really hope CCP stick to the words in this thread, that the store will stay at vanity items. If game-mechanic altering items and effects from AUR goes live, the game will take a (last?) step forward - leaving that delicate edge it is currently balancing at behind.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.06.28 00:23:00 -
[1180]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo gets looks at books, ah, ok, i see the issue now, you need about 9 million dollars by October and another 18m to get dust and wod complete.
CCP is breaking the game to survive basically
They have, as they say, bet the company on dust... and eve with it. Dust is going to enter a packed market populated by far more capable companies than CCP :-(
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Ethnocentricity
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Posted - 2011.06.28 00:39:00 -
[1181]
This sounds more to me like bribery and candy coating something. You are going to give an all expense paid trip to "political" leaders and then try to negotiate MT. You then will try to point the finger at CSM when you introduce non-vanity items to the NEX. |
Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.06.28 00:40:00 -
[1182]
Edited by: Nerodon on 28/06/2011 00:46:51 In many ways, I welcome Aurum and vanity items as it offers a large market for smart traders to exploit. Think about trading between the currencies and evaluating trends! So much profit to be made by the inner workings of this new economy!
Of course, a few suggestions would be to make these new items at a lower price as they aren't going to be popular enough at their current value. Also, keep in mind fellas that the increased demand for PLEX might actually make them EVEN MORE expensive. How many people are actually going to buy plexes en masse just for getting Aurum? What will the ratio between Isk->Plex and $$$->Plex to make Aurum. If not enough Plexes are purchased to match the sudden demand, then expect the price to rise intensly.
So, make items less expensive in order for more players to indulge in buying a plex knowing that he can get more for his money!
P.S: There is no NEED for game affecting items in the store. People have been waiting for so long to get to customize their characters, new players will most likely indulge as well! I'm sure most will welcome the NeX if the library was varied, interesting and more affordable. Affordability will extend the reach of this new market to a broader audience.
But definitely, Cheaper items in the store will attract more people to buy a PLEX to get muliple items at once from the NeX... The current prices are more intimidating, I'm most people that bough those Monocles just emptied their ISK wallets on them.
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Imnotded
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Posted - 2011.06.28 00:53:00 -
[1183]
Watch what we do . . . MAKE HEADLINES |
RENARD FOX
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Posted - 2011.06.28 01:24:00 -
[1184]
Am I missing something? What is the difference between this and plex?
I can use real money to buy plex. I sell plex in game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
I can use real money to buy plex. I can swap plex for aurum. I use aurum to buy vanity stuff in-game. I sell vanity stuff in-game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
Is there a difference that I have missed? Absent buying SPs what is the problem with this arrangement? Stupid people rolling around with $1000 monocles? Good luck to them.
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Deliceous
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.28 01:34:00 -
[1185]
Is eve like IBM or more Like Macintosh?
CCP can't give the community too much power otherwise it will become a stale and old.
Apple way - Shoot, see what happened,analyse, Shoot again.
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Jacoba Stalker
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Posted - 2011.06.28 01:39:00 -
[1186]
You speak of contacting CSM for any questions or suggestions. How do we contact CSM?
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Mi Sing
Caldari Crusaders Transcendancy
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Posted - 2011.06.28 01:40:00 -
[1187]
OK. Even though I think there is still a chance of CCP coming around, the more I think on this, the more I can see ways CCP will wiggle around it. Prediction time. The CSM will go to Iceland, haggle with CCP, and get them to "see the light" on non-vanity AUR items. But it will be left vague, with lots of wiggle room.
Then we will go a year, give or take, with only vanity items in the NEX, and we will think we have won. Right after the release of DUST, all of a sudden, you will be able to get pirate faction tower BPCs in the NEX. (When is the last time anyone got one in a drop?) It will be explained away as not giving an in game advantage, because its already in the game. And yes, there will be B****ing and moaning from the players, maybe a little bit of rage. Most of the players will just be excited about having the BPCs back. Then, when that calms down, a few more items will be reintroduced. And everyone will start going, "Hey, NEX isn't too bad." At that point is where the Non-vanity, for an in game advantage, comes in.
CCP only wants us to stay around long enough for DUST to launch. DUST and Sparkles(WoD) are their only focus because they believe those games will make more money. As far as I know, P2W and persistant universe really don't go together.
CSM, please do not let CCP have wiggle room in their statements. And make sure that it is not only no non-vanity for in game advantage, but no non-vanity period. If it has stats for the game it does not belong in the NEX.
Just a little food for thought guys.
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Dalton Vanadis
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Posted - 2011.06.28 02:29:00 -
[1188]
Originally by: Jacoba Stalker You speak of contacting CSM for any questions or suggestions. How do we contact CSM?
In their section of the forums. Jita park speakers corner or some such like that. Though you could probably also just mail them or convo them or join one of their public chat channels.
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Dalton Vanadis
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Posted - 2011.06.28 02:39:00 -
[1189]
Originally by: RENARD FOX Am I missing something? What is the difference between this and plex?
I can use real money to buy plex. I sell plex in game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
I can use real money to buy plex. I can swap plex for aurum. I use aurum to buy vanity stuff in-game. I sell vanity stuff in-game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
Is there a difference that I have missed? Absent buying SPs what is the problem with this arrangement? Stupid people rolling around with $1000 monocles? Good luck to them.
No, it's the potential to only be able to buy certain gameplay affecting items through cash (or direct aurum transaction), such as only being able to purchase an old-style doomsday if you drop a 1000 dollars for it in the aurum market (it shouldn't be separated out from the normal ISK market and should be readily accessible/buildable by the players like every other current game-play affecting item). If that makes sense.
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Dimitryy
Gallente Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.28 02:45:00 -
[1190]
What does that mean "no gold ammo", does that mean you dont plan to sell Ammo as a Microtrans, or does that mean you dont plan to sell charges in general as microtrans, or that you wont sell *depletable* items as microtrans, or that you wont sell P2W items as microtrans, or even just that you wont sell any item specifically called "Gold Ammo".
How hard is it to just make a clear answer?
------------------------------------------
Jack Blackstone > Dimitryy I hope you die. |
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Celfea Dur
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2011.06.28 03:17:00 -
[1191]
Dear CCP--- As usual, the silent majority supports your efforts in the ongoing development and enrichment of the EVE Universe.
I would like to remind you that the many thousands of players who do not spew vulgar vocalizations on your forums at the slightest utterance of change make up the bulk of your paying subscribers. I for one am thrilled that you are able to continue this franchise and maintain a loyal playerbase through ongoing development and new and better features. Although it is true and understandable that not all of these new features touch on aspects of gameplay which satisfy all of your customers, you have proven time and again that you are able to bring new players into the fold and even reach out to retired players and bring them back in with every new expansion.
Bravo.
As for microtransactions within EVE, my personal preference is for them to remain primarily vanity items in general. For example, character clothing, ship paint schemes, corporation ship branding, alliance ship branding, etc. I would expand on that by offering extremely high-value items such as unique ship hull designs and blueprints. Not game-changers, mind you....but say something along the lines of an anniversary edition battleship -- no drastic game-altering specifications, just a truly unique and cool design. (ie: such as the ship design winners)
The ultimate concern is that seasoned players do not have their extensive game experience cheapened by altering the game in such a way as to allow a new player, or group of players, the ability to buy their way into the upper echelon of the game.
As it stands now, a player with a credit card can legally purchase a character with a specific skill set and purchase enough PLEX to outfit any ship in the game. That is the extent of real money transfers that the EVE playerbase is willing to accept, and has also served CCP well for many years.
Please keep the in-game microtransactions on the small scale side to appeal to the entire EVE community, and I believe you will achieve greater success and higher player satisfaction.
Thank you. ---Celf
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Xandralkus
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Posted - 2011.06.28 03:42:00 -
[1192]
CCP didn't plan microtransactions, so the reassurance that there are no plans to implement "gold ammo" is not reassuring in the slightest. For all we know, the next expansion of Eve might release Empress Jamyl's superweapon and BPO's for Jove battleships on the Noble's Exchange.
I speak of course of the worst-case scenario...but everyone who has flown in lowsec or nullsec for more than nine seconds knows, plan on the worst-case scenario, because it can (and sometimes does) happen.
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RENARD FOX
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Posted - 2011.06.28 03:52:00 -
[1193]
Originally by: Dalton Vanadis
Originally by: RENARD FOX Am I missing something? What is the difference between this and plex?
I can use real money to buy plex. I sell plex in game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
I can use real money to buy plex. I can swap plex for aurum. I use aurum to buy vanity stuff in-game. I sell vanity stuff in-game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
Is there a difference that I have missed? Absent buying SPs what is the problem with this arrangement? Stupid people rolling around with $1000 monocles? Good luck to them.
No, it's the potential to only be able to buy certain gameplay affecting items through cash (or direct aurum transaction), such as only being able to purchase an old-style doomsday if you drop a 1000 dollars for it in the aurum market (it shouldn't be separated out from the normal ISK market and should be readily accessible/buildable by the players like every other current game-play affecting item). If that makes sense.
I don't see the difference TBH. Someone drops $1000 on an old-style doomsday - presumably they can sell it in-game. It is just another item that the richest characters/alliances can afford to buy. How is it any different to some of the unique cruisers/bs given as prizes as part of ATs? Or a Titan?
My only issue with NEX would be the possibility that it could be used to purchase non-transferable character enhancements. SPs, attributes etc.
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JaseNZ
Gallente The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.28 04:02:00 -
[1194]
Thanks for the blog, Fallout, it is much appreciated.
I hope all goes well for both sides at the meeting.
Jase.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.28 04:30:00 -
[1195]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 28/06/2011 04:33:53
Originally by: RENARD FOX I don't see the difference TBH. Someone drops $1000 on an old-style doomsday - presumably they can sell it in-game. It is just another item that the richest characters/alliances can afford to buy. How is it any different to some of the unique cruisers/bs given as prizes as part of ATs? Or a Titan?
My only issue with NEX would be the possibility that it could be used to purchase non-transferable character enhancements. SPs, attributes etc.
When you sell PLEX for ISK, the ISK you receive entered the game through normal game mechanics, by the efforts of a player (through ratting, mission running, whatever). The items you buy with the ISK were produced through normal game mechanics and the efforts of a player (through research, invention, mining/reprocessing, ratting, complex-running, manufacturing, etc.) and involved transactions in the player-driven marketplace.
Being able to spawn items directly into the game by through the NEX store presents a different situation than the status quo that we have with PLEX. Bypassing the usual game mechanics and market will distort the economy, corrupting one of the unique, defining elements of EVE.
Besides selling virtual goods with gameplay effects, I worry that CCP may start selling "convenience features" like the ability to buy faction standings (which is already a service you can buy from players), extra saved ship fittings and other perks. The problem I have with that, besides the fact that it'd offer indirect (and not necessarily transferable) advantages to the player is that it actually gives the developer a disincentive to make the game more convenient and fun for all paying subscribers, since doing so would remove an opportunity to squeeze additional dollars out of those willing to pay extra. The more cynical among us might fear that the motives of the developer could conceivably become so perverted by these forms of MTs that they actually start looking for ways to make the game less convenient to create new MT revenue sources.
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Eye Browz
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Posted - 2011.06.28 04:52:00 -
[1196]
If the viewpoints in Fearless aren't CCP policy and aren't even necessarily those of the individuals writing them, why don't you take it as a sign that we don't agree with those viewpoints and HTFU?
I mean, it's not like anybody would actually think MT would be a good idea for EVE Onl... o fudge.
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Elina Tan
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Posted - 2011.06.28 04:55:00 -
[1197]
Originally by: Celfea Dur The ultimate concern is that seasoned players do not have their extensive game experience cheapened by altering the game in such a way as to allow a new player, or group of players, the ability to buy their way into the upper echelon of the game.
This would be a good moment to quote Malcanis' Law again:
Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
In other words, pay-to-win items, contrary to what you suggest, will not favor new players, but the old vets, with trillions of disposable isk to their name.
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Jannx
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.28 05:34:00 -
[1198]
Originally by: Celfea Dur Dear CCP--- As usual, the silent majority supports your efforts in the ongoing development and enrichment of the EVE Universe.
Utter rubbish. To paraphrase from another board (but it makes my point clearly)...
I've heard people mention "the silent majority" before, when trying to dismiss all the negative feedback from the player community. They are held up as a set of loyal CCP customers who accept everything that CCP does. They are supposed to understand that CCP isn't ripping them off and that the changes are valid. They like to point out that it's the vocal minority on the web that likes to moan and shout.
Is this really the case? Are "the silent majority" really a valid group? Could it be that they're not vocal for other reasons, like time and effort? Could they be silent because they don't see the point in saying anything? Are they silent, but actually do make a protest by just simply not playing? I know from time to time I've started to moan on a forum, but stopped halfway through as I'm not able to articulate my response in the way I want. So I end up not posting, but I'm still annoyed.
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Mechatronicus Anihilus
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Posted - 2011.06.28 06:13:00 -
[1199]
Edited by: Mechatronicus Anihilus on 28/06/2011 06:16:05 Edited by: Mechatronicus Anihilus on 28/06/2011 06:14:54
Originally by: Elina Tan
In other words, pay-to-win items, contrary to what you suggest, will not favor new players, but the old vets, with trillions of disposable isk to their name.
In more ways than one. Think about it. Eve isn't the only competitive, high stakes pvp MMO out there. In any competitive environment, the cream rises to the top. Eve, the way it is now, it takes a long time to become a "top" pvper.
Hypothetically, people who use aurum to buy superweapons and sp and try to run with the big dogs will mostly get crushed. And the vets will wind up with the nice stuff, and use profits and the new system to polish their high sp toons. "Hey, Gallante Carrier V looks really nice for my sc alt-I'll just buy that with my n00b ganking profits..."
N00b who just got ganked is angry because he paid to win and lost in seconds. N00b reverses charges on his credit card. CCP just got owned by its potential new revenue stream.
The ramifications and slippery slope from that point on will provide a huge motivation for CCP to truly destroy the game. CCP would have to completely destroy the mechanics in order to give inexperienced players with bought gear and skills equality with veterans. The way the game plays now, even if the hypothetical aurum ships are twice as good as any faction or t2 ship, it would not offer enough of an advantage vs. players who know what they are doing. The destruction of game mechanics would have to be so complete that any real skill and knowledge of game mechanics offers no advantage. Eve would just become some movie you watch and the outcome is determined by who paid the most cash.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.28 08:02:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: RENARD FOX Am I missing something? What is the difference between this and plex?
I can use real money to buy plex. I sell plex in game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
I can use real money to buy plex. I can swap plex for aurum. I use aurum to buy vanity stuff in-game. I sell vanity stuff in-game. I buy other more useful stuff in-game.
Is there a difference that I have missed? Absent buying SPs what is the problem with this arrangement? Stupid people rolling around with $1000 monocles? Good luck to them.
The difference is this:
If you buy a PLEX, CCP has to provide gametime at some point. This means that you or the player buying the PLEX from you has a months access to the game.
If you buy AURUM, you STILL have to either pay subscription or buy a PLEX too. In other words, you have to pay for both.
Additionally, buying items for real money means that it's harder for you to STOP playing EVE as you have all these items you paid real money for.
Selling AURUM is an ADDITIONAL revenue stream, while selling PLEX will not bring in much extra since most players will play anyway.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Jannx
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.28 08:31:00 -
[1201]
Edited by: Jannx on 28/06/2011 08:33:23 Thinking out loud here, so apologies for the ramble...
Right, so as it stands now I can happily get out my credit card and go and buy PLEX for $35. I can then sell that PLEX on-line for ISK. I use that ISK to get a shiny new battleship with all the trimmings. I take it out, feeling smug, and because I haven't skilled up properly I get ganked, someone else gets the salvage which gets recycled (in various ways) back into the economy, and I am a poorer, but wiser, person.
The battleships BPO was bought with ISK, someone took the time and effort to mine the minerals and run the missions and do the research and manufacturing necessary to build the thing. Any number of people, down the line, have benefited because that battleship (plus trimmings) has been created as part of the economy, using the tools that the Eve universe allows us to use.
The only person to lose out is me, because I am an idiot. I might even leave the game and go and play WoT because I spent my hard earned cash, on top of the subscription, on something I only had for half an hour. It's not the games fault, but I'm only human and entitled to sulk.
Now, move on to NEX. I happily get my credit card out and buy enough PLEX for a shiny new, exclusive, battleship. I also buy some exclusive ammo, guns, paint job and other stuff. I've just spent $200 (not unreasonable, if you take into account how much a pair of jeans cost). This is converted to AURUM and I get my stuff.
Out of thin air.
From nothing.
No one has mined, manufactured, researched or salvaged anything for this ship. It just appeared. By magic. There are no BPO's for this thing. It's made by the "universe". Economy is bypassed and, therefore, suffers. Game cohesion is eroded. Many people are indirectly affected by this because there is little point in crafting anything.
So, I take it out, feeling smug, and pewpew a few (poorer) players because I bought a ship with an edge that they haven't got. And then, because I haven't skilled up properly, and also because people hate me for buying myself into the game because I can and they can't, I get ganked.
What happens next? I paid for that ship (and all it's exclusive trimmings). Where is my $200? Can someone take the salvage, potentially taking some of the trimmings and ammo (all exclusive, remember) that I, only half an hour before, paid for on my credit card? Presumably, yes. The alternative is that my shiny, new, exclusive battleship (plus trimmings) has reappeared in my hanger so I can go out and be smug all over again... like magic.
If it doesn't, then I'm going to be more than a little annoyed. That shiny, exclusive battleship was mine. I paid for it, on top of my monthly subscription. Now someone has blown it up and I can't use it any more. Bummer! I hate this game! I'm leaving to play WoT...
So, what's the outcome of these little scenarios?
Both have (potentially) lost the idiot player... so what? The thing is, even if he stays, he's more likely to buy another PLEX, sell it and buy a normal battleship, than get stung buying exclusive stuff that he's probably going to lose (assuming it doesn't magically reappear again).
Both have been funded by PLEX, although the ISK in the NEX version has been lost to the economy as it's been spent on AURUM. Loads of people, probably entirely unrelated in every way to each other, miss out on ISK revenue. The economy suffers and, if everyone just buys ships, there IS no economy.
The NEX ship has taken time and effort away from the "poorer" players who got blasted by it because its specs are better than the average. That is a problem, because it'll pi$$ off a lot of people, and AURUM ships will become automatic targets. Plus, people want to play in an "even" universe... by which I mean that, one day, if I skill up, earn my ISK and do the mission running then I, too, will own a nice, shiny, battleship and blow all those noobs to smithereens.
NEX won't work!
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Terh Rumnatarn
Caldari Research School of Astronomy and Astrophysics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 09:05:00 -
[1202]
Not addressing a problem is another way of confirming it. There were decisions to introduce P2W, just admit it and we can go pass it.
I will not repeat what other ppl are saying in the forums, but CCP be very afraid of the moment when the community will just stop reacting at the flaws in your game. Past that moment is no return.
Will be leaving this here... http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/44136/George_Carlin___You_Are_All_Diseased_Part_5/ start watching from 8:00 a nice life lesson :D |
Callidus Dux
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.28 09:26:00 -
[1203]
I must repeat following:
NO faction standing or skillpoints for Cash; ISK or Aurum. -> NO game mechanics purchasable / buyable
give us the old hangar back and make CQ optional. I will use it. I assure, but I do not need it always.
Furthermore I do not need the Nex Store or the Aurum. WHY? Make it purchasable via existing market. I will not support any games, which have a monthly subscription fee and beyond that such a system with real money! For that business there are a lot of other FREE TO PLAY games on the market. .. Which I also will NOT play.
Somethink to think about: AURUM = the Latin word for Gold = WoW Gold?
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:17:00 -
[1204]
what some of you now dont seem to understand is plex is not same as aurum store...
Why?
If you buy timecode and turn it into a 2x plex Then you sell them to market for isk, isk that entered game by someone else doing something in game (missions, industry, etc...) Then you use that isk to buy shiny new battleship from market (Some player somewhere manufctured that bs from materials (mined, looted, etc...) So that your new bs didint get to game whom nowhere, it took guite abit of player interaction to manifest into existence.
On aurum store onhand, ccp might introduce things that gets spawned out of nowhere with no other player interaction then even of buying one.
MMO Lotro is good example what happens to ingame "crafting" when developers go grazy over MicroTransactions, its non existant nowdays. Only things there worth trouble of crafting are things you cant buy from MT store there.
Curently eve is levelled playing field, none can have alloff sudden massive advantage over someone else, unless some one desides to backstab (bob and goons for example). Those in power has gotten there throw thinking, planning and lots of work. Theres nothing stopping 1 day old noob start doing the same and endup leader of massive alliance oneday.
We like to maintain it that way, so game rewards still those that use more then two braincells to play. Eve is not for everyone, it dosent have to be for everyone. Why should it try to compete against all other mmo¦s out there when it allready has its own niche on market?
Eve is truly unique game in fields of mmos and thats why we love it with such passion that were up in arms, when developer company trys to destroy its uniqueness.
When i started to play late 2008, it took me only two days to be hooked into this game. One of the strongest reasons was its unique sandbox and no handholding attitude. Go out there and make yourself what your truly cabable of becomeing. My point of view is that eve is for adults with brain, those with no brain plays wow. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
Jannx
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:36:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: Dasola what some of you now dont seem to understand is plex is not same as aurum store...
If you buy timecode and turn it into a 2x plex Then you sell them to market for isk, isk that entered game by someone else doing something in game (missions, industry, etc...) Then you use that isk to buy shiny new battleship from market (Some player somewhere manufctured that bs from materials (mined, looted, etc...)
Yes, exactly! I rambled on about the same thing on the previous page (my fault for making it too long).
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Peter Tjordenskiold
The Executives Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.06.28 11:19:00 -
[1206]
There is not much to say. I'm mostly interested into the sandbox. If CCP will put something into the game, that the sandbox expirience will vanish I will quit. Already the sale of GTC to get isk is a violation to the sandbox but not avoidable. My point of view was always that every player should be a part of an organisation that is organizing logistics and war, but already with GTCs it was far to easy to spare the logistic part. Every other functional item in the shop will destroy my motivation to pay my accounts.
I have no problem with higher monthly payments, but a mechanic that prefer players with the biggest wallet is something for WOW players. Maybe your profit is going up, but this community will be dead.
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Xavier Castle
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:00:00 -
[1207]
I think Eve online is in serious problems now due to CCP's greed. This latest blog does nothing to alleviate any concerns, and such is CCP's inability to give any reassurances it only adds to our concerns. Too much money is being fed to the two risky games and this seems like a desperate attempt to not go under by CCP. Only they are, or at least CPP Zulu is digging their grave. I do not accept that "sorry" from CCP Zulu, someone in a position such are his should know better and be better with communication skills. The total disrespect of players is astonishing... at least go take a break, get some air to cool off and re-read what you wrote before pressing send..
The current MTs prices are only only micro in terms of the pitiful item you get in return. There should never be used for anything more than vanity items, and they should be priced accordingly. If this monocle or something is meant to be special and expensive then cheaper items should have been released first, and everyone could have bought some nice things to decorate their characters/ships/etc. and really got into the spirit of your latest expansion. One room, and a walk way to view your ship is hardly an expansion though... its all very disappointing compared to 'real' in-game videos showing off bars and mini-games have been released by CCP ages ago. Where are these cool features? - fake? If this expansion actually added some real gameplay, i might be playing instead of complaining. I wish they would focus more on improving in-space features...
Oh and finally, revert turret icons.... UI icons should be clear and easy to identify, but now they are a multitude of dull shades of grey and black. The tractor beam and salvages are most missed by me. The new turret system is cool, the icons suck! |
HanSolos Daddy
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:19:00 -
[1208]
Originally by: Xavier Castle
Oh and finally, revert turret icons.... UI icons should be clear and easy to identify, but now they are a multitude of dull shades of grey and black. The tractor beam and salvages are most missed by me. The new turret system is cool, the icons suck!
Yes that really does beg the question as to what in the hell is going on over at CCP. They put so much effort into a much nicer laser light show and vastly improved turret animations. New turrets/turret animations = very well done!! The implementation looks amazing on my system, and my nightmare finally has 4 turrets (blasters could use just a little more love, CCP).
And then they screw up horribly on the new turret icons. They look like absolute crap, on a top of the line nVidia on a high rez monitor at 1920 x 1080. New turret icons = OMGWTF!?!?!?!?!?!
So we go from this:
To this:
Holy Bipolarity Batman!!! |
Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Discrete Solutions Ltd. Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:47:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: Dasola what some of you now dont seem to understand is plex is not same as aurum store...
Why?
I think players know the difference. The major problem is the items and market stop being a player driven economy. What if Players could just buy unlimited Utus, Gold Magnates, or State Issue Ravens, as opposed to acquiring them from alliance tournaments and events.
People are concerned not because of the lol-pricing, but because CCP opted to only tell us about past decisions about the AUR market, and not discuss anything about the future design philosophy, particularly in regards to a pay-to-play model.
Players are also concerned that while CCP hunkers down with the CSM reps in Reykjavik they are releasing absolutely nothing to the playerbase. CCP Pann starts off a thread that has the words "I promise weÆll start getting some info out tomorrow." and when she has a family emergency we are to expect that absolutely no one else at CCP is able to step up and help her fulfill what I see as a company promise to provide info? In the interim, the whole bit about charging 3rd party app developers, melting graphics cards, etc. that the company is mired in is losing me friends to play with and targets to shoot at.
Originally by: TWD We suck and Goonswarm are PvP gods.
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Quadima
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:14:00 -
[1210]
Originally by: Katana Seiko Why did you have to introduce a second currency at all? We have the ISK for everything inside the game so far. What you are doing with the AUR is - to put it plainly - bull****.
So 1 Plex is about 400 million ISK It is 3500 AUR for one PLEX. That means we got 1 AUR equal to about 114285 ISK. So why don't you just cut the crap and call the Women's 'Sterling' Dress Blouse (Dust) by it's price? It costs 3200 AUR. That's 365,712k ISK.
We are the players. We are the ones making sure you have a job. So stop giving us discrimination and double standard bull****. K Thx Bye.
If they sell it for ISK, no real money is inserted into the game. You could simply do missions or rat in belt and get that ISK. Where's the GRÇÇD then ?
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Q OSC
Gallente Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:45:00 -
[1211]
While i admire the resolution to solve this quick and listen to the csm on this subject. Can i ask if you are gonna pay the tickets to iceland for the csm?
And if so , if the word on the street is true that your having financial problems, wouldn't it be more interesting to do this meeting using internet conferencing?
Fact is, listening to what u read on the forums should be all you need to fix this , isn't it clear enough allready?
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:48:00 -
[1212]
Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
The God of Veldspar sums up my feelings about the latest devblog from Zulu a lot more eloquently and succinctly than I probably would.
I'll just add - I've discussed this with my corp-mates pretty heavily the last two days and the general consensus I've found is that people don't really care about MTs in general. It's the potential for MT's to affect our internet spaceships that sends us into a rabble rabble rabble pitchforks and torches style frenzy.
MTs to paint ships? Fine and dandy. MTs for new clothes in the stations when they are fully opened? Okie dokie. MTs for tech 3 ammo? No no! Bad gaming company!
For those that are still screaming "No MTs at all!!!!" - that ship has sailed my friends. MTs are not coming to EVE - they're here. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as they are not NECESSARY to still be competitive on an equal footing in the part of the game that matters to us - pew pew in internet spaceships. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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taque
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:59:00 -
[1213]
It is just sad that it takes so much of time to create a response while players are upset, not understanding why ccp ever made this decisions.
talking to CSM is just a joke. what does that mean? you are going to implement but spread over a few more steps or are you looking for ppl that find your decisions reasonable and pick them to talk with?
promises has been made to csm and the players of Eve. that there is a lot of tension and a lack of trust between the playerbase and ccp is due to the actions of ccp.
we don't want to hear about how sad you are about the recent events. we want to hear a sorry and we want to hear you keep your promises. and no, i don't care about that monocle. we're not discussing the absurd high prices of those ****ty things in store. i don't care.
but pay-to-win ****ed up **** is making me mad.
grow up ccp. be fair and honest.
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:04:00 -
[1214]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03
Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.
As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses?
But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.
/c
The God of Veldspar sums up my feelings about the latest devblog from Zulu a lot more eloquently and succinctly than I probably would.
I'll just add - I've discussed this with my corp-mates pretty heavily the last two days and the general consensus I've found is that people don't really care about MTs in general. It's the potential for MT's to affect our internet spaceships that sends us into a rabble rabble rabble pitchforks and torches style frenzy.
MTs to paint ships? Fine and dandy. MTs for new clothes in the stations when they are fully opened? Okie dokie. MTs for tech 3 ammo? No no! Bad gaming company!
For those that are still screaming "No MTs at all!!!!" - that ship has sailed my friends. MTs are not coming to EVE - they're here. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as they are not NECESSARY to still be competitive on an equal footing in the part of the game that matters to us - pew pew in internet spaceships.
Built tech 3 ammo= bad company BPCs with tech 3 ammo... ehhh... might work if done properly (BPCs! low amount of runs! high production costs! why? because it'd work with the economy to a degree and would be golden bullets but if you're going to do this may I suggest adding in class 7 wormholes from which you get the key material for said ammo? just to make it extra hard to obtain, like have only 3-4 of those systems in-game per total) but anything else is a no no, no ships, no mods, no standings, no lps, no sps, no nothing sold via NeX.
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TheLieutenant13
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:06:00 -
[1215]
A true politician's answer. He does apologize for the insulting aspect of the last blog, which was a big factor in our negative response. However, our biggest concern is the fact that game-play affecting items could be sold in the Noble Exchange in the near future.
Not selling 'Gold Ammo' to me, means they will sell market items through the Noble Exchange, just not things we can't already purchase through the market. That said, I'm not sure how well CSM will hold up, seeing as CCP already has plans for selling these items, but at very least we can get CSM to solidify that no items better than what is currently on the market will be sold via the Noble Exchange.
Quit fooling yourselves, the answer is quite clear, Yes non-vanity items will be sold, but they will be the same items we can purchase on the market. - We hope.
They whole point is to create a PLEX sink other than ISK and Gametime. Lets just say that half of all PLEX is sold for isk which never gets reconverted back into gametime. This ISK is lost in ships, ammo, modules... anything, you name it. CCP can create these things on a whim. The other half of PLEX eventually makes it into being added Gametime. In terms of having increased revenue, adding Gametime is bad, and losing PLEX to valueless items, is good.
So with the Noble Exchange, where only PLEX can be used as currency, items that are otherwise unavailable are sold. As to the exact nature of these items is uncertain, the best we could hope for is Vanity only items, or at the minimum, no items that wouldn't be otherwise available on the EvE market.
The goal is to reduce the percentage of PLEX added to Gametime and Increase the percentage of PLEX used to purchase in-game items through the emerging market that is, The Noble Exchange.
With monocles going for 1.4bil isk or $68, a battleship on the Noble Exchange will need to be priced in similarity (probably slightly less than) a battleship sold on ISK markets, otherwise the point of the new PLEX sink is lost. So the expectation is that any items that are also available through EvE market will be priced closely to what the eve market item is going for, but as for vanity items... the prices may never change, but just don't buy them :) We can only hope CCP isn't so greedy that they price everything on the Noble Exchange for like half of its EvE market value... Economic Collapse.
Good Luck CSM, we are with you.
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Brego Tralowski
Galactic Extensive Technologies SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:29:00 -
[1216]
Huff.
----------------------------- Fail expansion is still fail. |
Krystyn
Caldari Serenity Rising LLC Slammer's Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:42:00 -
[1217]
Adding my voice to an ever growing list of people dis-satisfied with CCP's inability to tell the truth.
And speaking as a person with a degree in Economics...this is horrible business sense. We are people who buy a product from a seller. We buy the product because it increases our utility/happiness(or in English its fun to play.) Reducing the utility buyers get from your products reduces the number of buyers of the product. By not listening to the players/buyers CCP is shooting themselves in the foot. I wonder if the upper management in CCP actually studied business at all or even simple math. Does the sale of 52 monocles make up for the loss are 5500 some accounts? I didn't think so. I hope the CSM points out the SIMPLE math part to the bean counters over at CCP and soon or kiss my account good bye.
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Tro Aele
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:44:00 -
[1218]
Responding to the blog, haven't read the discussion.
Thanks, CCP Zulu.
I was disappointed and alarmed at tone of the previous blog post and said so in its comments.
As I mentioned then, despite their ugliness I don't mind vanity items in principle. I think what makes them ugly is they make players feel like CCP's customers in-game. The players have lived with bugs and lag and unfinished design ideas for years because we love the game. There's a tacit agreement that we're in this together. Nothing breaks that spell faster than feeling like a customer. The reaction is 'if I'm your customer then all these little problems are unacceptable' and having lived with them so long we feel cheated. We are forced to re-conceive our years spent in game in different terms if we are just customers and not 'members' of eve online.
I honestly believe that if CCP had come out front and said 'look guys, the industry is moving to microtransactions, we've got a new avenue with them WIS, so we are going to launch a broad set of vanity items at various price points. Non-vanity items are off the table at least until 2013 (or something)' the players would live with it. Eve has been the recipient of much love, patience and leeway from its community. There is (was) more there for it if CCP needs (needed) to make a move to keep it financially sound. But that delivery sucked.
tl;dr : Don't remind us we are customers. We give a lot in the this relationship and will give more, but CCP has got to keep up the romance. Don't be EA Games. Be CCP.
Bottom line, thank you and bravo on the new blog post. Needed to hear it.
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Joxxy
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:54:00 -
[1219]
Not the best apolagy in the world - but its better then fliping the bird in previous blog.
Hoping to see some good news soon ...
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:22:00 -
[1220]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CAAN0N Haven't read the thread yet but has anyone yet considered the fact that CCP might be inviting the CSM to Iceland to go all snuff film on there asses? Careful guys could be a TARP!
Not a problem. We have CCP Xhagen on our side. Those who have seen him will understand. He's a full-on Viking Berserker with a mohawk.
Also, the main conference room is easily defensible, we could hold out in there for weeks.
While Robert's playful style is good, I'd just like to point out that this is not about taking sides. CCP and the CSM have built up something truly special in my opinion and I will make damn sure that the CSM gets their time and opportunity to speak to the people who make the decisions about CCP's business strategies.
This will be a challenging summit as I want to to be productive, not about butting heads and shouting and screaming. I aim at directing the discussions towards a logical path where a conclusion will be reached. What that conclusion will be and whether it will be to everyone's liking is not something I want to speculate on. ____________________________ CSM Project Manager
EVE Online CCP Games |
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raker
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:32:00 -
[1221]
Edited by: raker on 28/06/2011 18:32:21
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
I aim at directing the discussions towards a logical path where a conclusion will be reached. What that conclusion will be and whether it will be to everyone's liking is not something I want to speculate on.
I think its very important that the conclusion is to the liking of the playerbase "your customers" , dont you ?
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Jitorius
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:32:00 -
[1222]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I aim at directing the discussions towards a logical path where a conclusion will be reached.
It is just hard to imagine how players should continue trusting in what CCP is saying if we now realize that non-vanity stuff has been internally considered for obviously some time, while you had communicated to us before that "non-vanity MT will never enter the game".
If you had stated earlier "No non-vanity MT stuff for the next 2 years guaranteed", there would have been some rambling after those two years, but ppl would have known what to expect.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:30:00 -
[1223]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 28/06/2011 19:30:46
1. Was this interview to mbl.is done before or after Zulus 2nd Devlog and the communication block ?
2. If not why did CCP not keep its commitment to cease communications about the matter till after the CSM-Summit.
3, If the communication was unavoidable or an accident, why was no english translation offered to the playerbase ?
Its about trust you know. Saying one thing and doing the other, generally creates the opposite.
Sandbox or Death! |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:31:00 -
[1224]
Here is the skinny. CCP you fcked up big time. It is ok we all do it. Be it business or personel lives we all do it. I do think some folks are flipping out just to make a big stink. They believe it is the only way you will listen. In business money talks BS walks.
Here is your problem you did not think about. We already pay 15 bucks a month per account and the whole plex issue gives you a nice boost aswell. This pays for you making EVE, Dust 514 and that other game. Why the hell would we pay more money for what we already payed for.
Charging us for clothes and crap in a game we already pay a subscription for that pays the designers to make.
CCP you have lost your mind. You realize that Eve has some of the brightest minds in the world playing it?
How on earth will you explain to them that they pay for the game to be designed and then when certain aspects are made they pay more after that.
There is a old saying my friend. If it is not broke don`t fix it.
I use to ask friends of mine to join the game. After 7 years I do not even bother. Eve has turned into Super caps online and frankly every one of my RL friends have quit because of it. I personally love the super cap fleets as thy are. Everything is not about what I like or what CCP likes. It is what the player base likes. To your economist : Your economic theories are slightly flawed. Perpetual war and everything dieing burns alliances out. Those people take breaks from the game. Hence lost revenue. Scribble that in your equation. Eve players are not robots. (Atleast most of us are not) This is where you hire a organizational psychologist to fix your problems.
Please CCP Stop playing carebear in highsec. Yes we pay attention to dev interviews.
CCP one thing you must remember. You are not part of the " EVE ONLINE brutal in your face be smug if you want to we play a video game fsck you im gonna blow your ship up ashat."
You are the outsider. We are not your friends, we are your client.
Play your part.
My thoughts are mine. They in no way represent my Alliance or my corp. I am a free man.
"I seek Understanding in a world of 1`s & 0`s. I seek oneness in a world of chaos." |
Jannx
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:45:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 28/06/2011 19:30:46
1. Was this interview to mbl.is done before or after Zulus 2nd Devlog and the communication block ?
2. If not why did CCP not keep its commitment to cease communications about the matter till after the CSM-Summit.
3, If the communication was unavoidable or an accident, why was no english translation offered to the playerbase ?
Its about trust you know. Saying one thing and doing the other, generally creates the opposite.
Good spot. Makes interesting reading (through Google Translate).
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Coco Caine
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:46:00 -
[1226]
I fear CSM will tell CCP that 79% of the player base is against MT and CCP will interpret it as 'there are a lot of people, around 20%, requesting virtual goods'.
If that will be the case, it's biomassing time for me, because there is f2p games out there with more potential than Eve.
I'm not the least interested in spending a single cent in a virtual monocle. If it were a storyline reward of a 200 mission grind - you might find me spending months of subscription fee and game time to get it.
I pay CCP for 'GAME TIME', and have done so for several hundred $$$ already. This is the stuff game designers do, like storylines, pvp rule sets, balancing, pve, nice ship designs etc.
Fukc1ng game industry quacks took over CCP. 'Improve your profit with virtual sales' workshops by people who need a map to find their behindus and stuff.
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Daenna Chrysi
Amarr Omega Foundry Unit Shadows Of Betrayal
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:50:00 -
[1227]
Edited by: Daenna Chrysi on 28/06/2011 19:50:46 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540985
My idea for improving the game, and making AUR obsolete.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:54:00 -
[1228]
Originally by: raker Edited by: raker on 28/06/2011 18:32:21
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
I aim at directing the discussions towards a logical path where a conclusion will be reached. What that conclusion will be and whether it will be to everyone's liking is not something I want to speculate on.
I think its very important that the conclusion is to the liking of the playerbase "your customers" , dont you ?
I don't think a leading question is the best response to this, especially to one of the Devs who is apparently more a facilitator rather than an innovator (Of these terribad ideas lately) - but what do I know.
My perspective perceived from CCP's language lately is that the innovators (and management) at CCP have already made their minds up on the "non-vanity items" subject and are inviting the CSM to CCP not to decide on if this happens, but rather it is to decide on when and how is best way to sugar coat it for damage limitation to the wider Eve community.
My guess is the CSM will be quite shocked, huff and puff a bit with moans about having no power (they don't), but after a night or two of free food and ale, the will become more malleable to CCP's line of thinking. Afterall they are getting a nice little holiday out of one of their hobbies, and get to speak to their hobbies "gods". Can't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Prove me wrong though CSM - Mass resign if they try to ram non-vanity items down our throats. That is the only card you actually have to play (Massive negative PR) in this "debate", and really the only action us players would support if CCP try to steam ahead regardless with "non-vanity NeX items".
[small print: Apologies for being blessed with gifts of perception and speculative powers, and serious apologies for appearing to speak for the community using "us" - I mean it generally, as I think I have a fairly mainstream view right now. Oh and I hope I'm wrong about CCP's fixed position.] The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE......
Honest Guv! We had no plans for it but we are doing it anyw |
TorTorden
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:18:00 -
[1229]
Edited by: TorTorden on 28/06/2011 20:20:06 Probably been mentioned but CCP needs to understand that this is not a "Yes, both options please".
1. The last thing EVE needs is a further level of 'investment' from a players perspective. I have already invested 5 years of my time into this game.
if ccp makes the wrong decision here, I'm gone(3 subs). This means no subscription money and certainly no micro transaction money.
2. 90% of players older than a year of so think we have been short shifted with the lack of options in the character creator, and now we are seeing these same options being re-implented but at an additional cost. In short, not ok.
an extreme case of this are the extra fitting slots mentioned in the leaked pdf(I don't care if its an exagerated pov, if you write\say something, own it), CCP removes localy stored fits and moves them to a server, thus adding a limit of max 50 fits, and now not long after there is talk of giving us more for a fee.
TL:DR I feel ccp has been sneakliy removing features only to try selling them back to me, and I and quite a few other older players are at a point where we ask ourselves if we just cut our losses. ------------------------------------------------ There is no such thing as good or evil. Just an egotistic struggle for self empowerment. ------------------------------------------------ |
Talliana Mordeaux
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:47:00 -
[1230]
I don't see how Aurum is any different from plex? You buy plex with any international currency and convert it to in-game isk OR aurum. You can buy clothes and whatever with aurum and then sell those clothes on the market for isk. You can then buy more plex with that isk to buy more aurum. etc etc.
It all comes back to isk. And if you are worried about someone spending money to buy an item they didn't earn, I don't see how the plex system is any different. It allows people to use real live money to purchase things that they did not earn through game play.
The items weren't player created? Big deal. The best mods to be found in game aren't either. They are farmed by bots in 0.0. Sure, there are a couple of drops that are scored by legitimate players, but those are far and few between.
Incarna. New things were added to the game. A little disappointed in how little the overall update was but I imagine it's just a precursor to more content. Like interacting with other avatars in the seedy underbelly of the station, also known as the surprise sex dungeon.
I'm more interested in what is going to happen next rather than what has already happened. What will the next update contain and what's the status on the need for speed initiative? Last I checked, lag is still winning.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.28 21:27:00 -
[1231]
Originally by: Talliana Mordeaux I don't see how Aurum is any different from plex? You buy plex with any international currency and convert it to in-game isk OR aurum. You can buy clothes and whatever with aurum and then sell those clothes on the market for isk. You can then buy more plex with that isk to buy more aurum. etc etc.
It all comes back to isk. And if you are worried about someone spending money to buy an item they didn't earn, I don't see how the plex system is any different. It allows people to use real live money to purchase things that they did not earn through game play.
The items weren't player created? Big deal. The best mods to be found in game aren't either. They are farmed by bots in 0.0. Sure, there are a couple of drops that are scored by legitimate players, but those are far and few between.
Incarna. New things were added to the game. A little disappointed in how little the overall update was but I imagine it's just a precursor to more content. Like interacting with other avatars in the seedy underbelly of the station, also known as the surprise sex dungeon.
I'm more interested in what is going to happen next rather than what has already happened. What will the next update contain and what's the status on the need for speed initiative? Last I checked, lag is still winning.
You don't get it, do you?
You never convert PLEX into ISK. You sell it to another player on the open market.
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Krell Kroenen
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:34:00 -
[1232]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 28/06/2011 19:30:46
1. Was this interview to mbl.is done before or after Zulus 2nd Devlog and the communication block ?
2. If not why did CCP not keep its commitment to cease communications about the matter till after the CSM-Summit.
3, If the communication was unavoidable or an accident, why was no english translation offered to the playerbase ?
Its about trust you know. Saying one thing and doing the other, generally creates the opposite.
I ran that interview through Google myself and the key part caught my eye was this.
"The third issue that has a lot of anger olli= players is that they require management to certify that the CCP will not be able to buy practical things, "functional" with money in the future, so people will be able to buy a victory.
John says that the games production as CCP can not bring such a statement, but asserts that it will never be able to buy a victory in EVE Online, designed to be both."
It's not very clear and I was hoping that a native speaker could shed some light on it? It almost sounds like they are going to offer vanity items and functional items?
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Vorpaladin
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:40:00 -
[1233]
Originally by: TorTorden Edited by: TorTorden on 28/06/2011 20:20:06 TL:DR I feel ccp has been sneakliy removing features only to try selling them back to me, and I and quite a few other older players are at a point where we ask ourselves if we just cut our losses.
This is precisely what I'm concerned about. If CCP moves to the model of nickel and diming us to death like the Airline industry for necessary features/items, I'm gone. I used to fly for business quite a bit; I drive most of the time now. I can certainly give up a video game that tries to hang me upside down and shake every last penny out of my pockets.
If I have to pay above and beyond my subscription to have a chance at winning, then I am no longer immersed within a virtual world. I'm simply interacting with Real Life(tm) through an intermediary. Eve has already been sullied with Plex creating an unwanted connection between game currency and real currency. IMHO the Plex mechanism should only enable people to trade ISK for subscription time, not $$$.
I would hate to see Eve ruined by excessive greed. I have no problem with CCP profiting from their labors, but ruining game play to pad their margins by a few percentage points is a fool's errand that will ultimately kill the golden goose. I have a bad feeling that MBAs are running the company instead of hard core gamers who understand the community upon which their business depends for its very existence and who have a passion for creating exceptional gaming experiences. Obviously those running the company have to understand business too, but a soulless MBA who doesn't understand or care about gaming will destroy a company like CCP is short order.
CCP, don't let bean counters talk you into bad strategic moves! I'd hate to see Eve die because some dope in a suit talked you into trying to milk your customers for all they're worth. Like it or not, your long-term (read "repeat") customers possess above-average intelligence (by quite a bit) due to the nature of Eve. You can't fool us; don't even try. Ask your MBA... what happens if you tick off your customer base and lose your repeat customers as a result? On that point at least he or she can give you sound advice.
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Gevlin
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.28 21:49:00 -
[1234]
I hope the call of the CSM to Iceland works out.
I think some posters are beginning to believe that they are running CCP, and are drumming up crowds to ensure that they listen to. This is leading to GroupThink against CCP.
I hope that CSM insures that they don't have lack of impartial leadership
I personally think there are trolls feeding the frenzy because they succeeding in making some care bear tears from the most hardened of players.
here we go again! |
Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:32:00 -
[1235]
Want to know why?
http://www.fme.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=5877(page 7)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Bjorgolfsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Thorsteinsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rg%C3%B3lfur_Gu%C3%B0mundsson
http://is.linkedin.com/in/villithorsteinsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/information/bjorgolfur-thor-bjorgolfsson/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straumur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsbanki
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/07/iceland.banking
http://www.eveonline.com/externalLink.aspx?l=http%3A%2F%2Ftranslate.google.com%2Ftranslate%3Fjs%3Dn%26prev%3D_t%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26layout%3D2%26eotf%3D1%26sl%3Dis%26tl%3Den%26u%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dv.is%252Ffrettir%252F2010%252F10%252F16%252Feve-online-malar-gull-fyrir-ccp%252F%26act%3Durl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaupthing_Bank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell
Knock if off guys, nothing can be done. Enjoy EVE while you still can.
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Andre Coeurl
Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 00:32:00 -
[1236]
Originally by: Fiberton Here is the skinny. CCP you fcked up big time. It is ok we all do it. Be it business or personel lives we all do it. I do think some folks are flipping out just to make a big stink. They believe it is the only way you will listen. In business money talks BS walks.
Here is your problem you did not think about. We already pay 15 bucks a month per account and the whole plex issue gives you a nice boost aswell. This pays for you making EVE, Dust 514 and that other game. Why the hell would we pay more money for what we already payed for.
Charging us for clothes and crap in a game we already pay a subscription for that pays the designers to make.
CCP you have lost your mind. You realize that Eve has some of the brightest minds in the world playing it?
How on earth will you explain to them that they pay for the game to be designed and then when certain aspects are made they pay more after that.
There is a old saying my friend. If it is not broke don`t fix it.
Among others, this post sums up most of the playerbase feelings. We ALREADY pay to play the game, many of us PAID for years to get their characters-relationships-abilities to a certain point, and then you suddenly change the WHOLE meaning and concept of the game by introducing Micropayment? One of the things that has made EVE stand out among games has been the sandbox concept, connected to the complete self-sufficiency of the game and the never-boring complexity of player-driven economy. Introducing an external factor in it will destroy this side. It has been already a BAD idea to create PLEX, it is a complete destruction of the "sandbox concept" to have any item in game you can buy via plexes. CCP, since you did it already, it looks like you are being driven by people who don't understand the playerbase anymore. It would be especially sad to lose this game, and it would be even worse if CCP would do so following the same idiocy which led Iceland to being bankrupt. Get back to what worked so well until now, don't be fooled around by the baboons of corporate vampirism.
I'm somewhat of an old player and I invested a lot of time and money in this game, but what I'm sure about anyway is, if there won't be a clear statement announcing soon that the whole concept has been a mistake, and that there will NEVER be ANY microtransaction in EVE, I'll let my accounts expire. No reason to go on paying if there's going to be microtransactions, of any kind. Better to play something which is only a MT game, from the start, then.
As a side note, be aware that some alliances are already thinking to ban all and any Aurum usage to their members. --- --- ---
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Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:10:00 -
[1237]
OK I read the CCP finacial statments. 17% of the stock , second largest stock holder owned by a guys investment company who`s father embezzeled money, his mothers ex husband created the american **** party and was involved it seems with the Russian mafia until atleast 2000s era ... um Russian bots , Russia investment owner...ok so maybe that is all insane ..CEO only owns 2.8%..51.27% owned by 2 investment companies.. Lets be honest here CCP has no real say about anything. 2 investment companies give you your marching orders. Now I love this game but wow to the poster who showed us all that.. I will keep reading but WOW I am blown away with that intel.
"I seek Understanding in a world of 1`s & 0`s. I seek oneness in a world of chaos." |
Enkill Eridos
Draconian Enforcers Available To Hire Massive Dynamic Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:20:00 -
[1238]
Originally by: Andre Coeurl
Originally by: Fiberton Here is the skinny. CCP you fcked up big time. It is ok we all do it. Be it business or personel lives we all do it. I do think some folks are flipping out just to make a big stink. They believe it is the only way you will listen. In business money talks BS walks.
Here is your problem you did not think about. We already pay 15 bucks a month per account and the whole plex issue gives you a nice boost aswell. This pays for you making EVE, Dust 514 and that other game. Why the hell would we pay more money for what we already payed for.
Charging us for clothes and crap in a game we already pay a subscription for that pays the designers to make.
CCP you have lost your mind. You realize that Eve has some of the brightest minds in the world playing it?
How on earth will you explain to them that they pay for the game to be designed and then when certain aspects are made they pay more after that.
There is a old saying my friend. If it is not broke don`t fix it.
Among others, this post sums up most of the playerbase feelings. We ALREADY pay to play the game, many of us PAID for years to get their characters-relationships-abilities to a certain point, and then you suddenly change the WHOLE meaning and concept of the game by introducing Micropayment? One of the things that has made EVE stand out among games has been the sandbox concept, connected to the complete self-sufficiency of the game and the never-boring complexity of player-driven economy. Introducing an external factor in it will destroy this side. It has been already a BAD idea to create PLEX, it is a complete destruction of the "sandbox concept" to have any item in game you can buy via plexes. CCP, since you did it already, it looks like you are being driven by people who don't understand the playerbase anymore. It would be especially sad to lose this game, and it would be even worse if CCP would do so following the same idiocy which led Iceland to being bankrupt. Get back to what worked so well until now, don't be fooled around by the baboons of corporate vampirism.
I'm somewhat of an old player and I invested a lot of time and money in this game, but what I'm sure about anyway is, if there won't be a clear statement announcing soon that the whole concept has been a mistake, and that there will NEVER be ANY microtransaction in EVE, I'll let my accounts expire. No reason to go on paying if there's going to be microtransactions, of any kind. Better to play something which is only a MT game, from the start, then.
As a side note, be aware that some alliances are already thinking to ban all and any Aurum usage to their members.
I hope that they don't remove NeX from the game. I hope they don't use it to charge for anything but ship skins, clothing, and maybe the ability to go back to the old way, or anything else that is special that really means nothing to how the game is played. Certain skills that have been taken out from the game I wouldn't object to either (DED Connections for example since it doesn't really unbalance the game.) Ships and SP I hope never happens. Plus you can buy nex stuff for isk as long as someone seeds it on the market (like plexes) So I don't see the problem.
As a side note, in your reply please attach the alliances that are banning aurum use..that way I can recruit those people. Or so I can just grief them..as imo that's the only way to protest anything in EVE.
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Auric Aurumfinger
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:22:00 -
[1239]
New York City to Reykjavik Roundtrip - US$ 1,400.00 or 20 Monocles. Aurum is Gold in Latin EVE Online - The Gold is CCP's |
Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:00:00 -
[1240]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 29/06/2011 02:01:19 Dear Mr. Gylfason
Spare me the "deep mutual trust" BS. This is EVE. Have you ever played your own game?
I want a firm business commitment to not add ANY (not just "gold ammo") P2W microtransactions EVER.
You keep that commitment and I'll keep subscribing.
Yours in a mutually beneficial (for now) business transaction,
Ard
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Fuamnach
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:35:00 -
[1241]
Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:37:10 Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:36:28 The horse was out of the barn with PLEX. Why scream to close the barn doors now?
True, the precise value of PLEX in ISK floats on the ISK market. Nevertheless, once there is PLEX, real world money buys in-game items, "unearned" in-game advantage. (Not going to argue merits of PLEX-scheme here or the delusion of a "sandbox" economy utterly separate from "real world" economics.)
Similarly, so long as goods sold for AURUM, regardless whether vanity or consequential, can be bought and sold, at some point, on the ISK market AND so long as ISK can buy PLEX which can buy AURUM, little has changed except to make clear to all the change that already took place with PLEX.
Despite what we might call CCP's "currency manipulation" scheme to put upward pressure on the ISK price of PLEX, the value of even NeX items to the player community will still be reflected in and ultimately settled by the in-game price of any such objects on the ISK market. The value of PLEX, used to buy AURUM, still floats on the ISK market. ISK can be exchanged, albeit indirectly, for AURUM. Thus, the EVE "sandbox" economy still arbitrates the values of the EVE virtual world.
Bear in mind that it is not even clear that CCP can produce NeX vanity items of sufficient attraction to sell them or continue to sell them to the EVE community at prices CCP determines. If people tire of the novelty of NeX items, they will sell them for what they can get. ISK market prices will fall, and CCP will sell fewer of the same for AURUM, unless they respond by lowering AURUM prices.
Nothing seriously untoward has happened here. If people want to set their alarms for something, set them for NeX items for sale for AURUM (or dollars or yen) "bound" to avatar or account, and so not available on the ISK market. That would be an unprecedented breach of the EVE "sandbox."
Despite so many protestations pretending to outrage of high principle, a great deal of screaming here really just boils down to AURUM sticker shock.
CCP likely erred by introducing the novel concept of vanity items at such extremely vain prices. More sensible would have been to rollout modestly price items now and extravagantly priced luxury items only after opening the inner Captain's Quarters doors to public areas. There's only so much a mirror can do to stroke vanity; the full flowering of the Deadly Sin requires reflection in the eyes of others.
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Pardus Aeon
Gallente Galnet Genesis
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Posted - 2011.06.29 03:21:00 -
[1242]
I have shared my thoughts on the matters at hand through my Podcast. If you are interested you can listen in in several ways:
Site: http://www.ggenesis.org
Direct Links: http://www.ggenesis.org/podcast/message.mp3 http://www.ggenesis.org/podcast/thefollowup.mp3
RSS Feed: feed://www.ggenesis.org/podcast/feed.xml
iTunes: Search for New Eden Genesis
I would suggest listening to part 1 before part 2. These are my own opinions of course. I'm always happy to discuss them or to receive any feedback, though if you'd like to reach me it's best to mail me directly.
Regards
[Pardus Aeon] |
Xandralkus
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:07:00 -
[1243]
If EVE is going towards play-to-win, I'm going to troll them, just as I troll pirates out in lowsec. Let's see how far the $1000 day-old n00bz with purchased SP and NEx-fit Federate Megathrons can get, once I jam their targeting dead with my ECM. I may not be able to kill them, but I sure can infuriate them.
If pay-to-win ever does happen in eve, I'm joining a hardcore, lowsec, PVP-blobbing corporation. I will fly ECM, I will jam them, I will warp off, and I will lead them into traps for my allies.
Just imagine the QQ when a noob loses a $5500 Jove Battleship...
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:10:00 -
[1244]
^^ READ! ^^
After you read this, do you honestly believe that "The One Who's Name Shall Not Be Spoken" (the major shareholder of CCP) cares about the gaming experience? Do you honestly believe that he's concerned about ruining the game? About ruining the in-game market, economics and balance? Do you honestly believe that he gives a damn about all the ppl raging here on forums? Do you think that he cares about EVE Online? Do you think he cares about the income EVE Online makes from players? Do you think he cares about how much will an EVE Online player spend on NEX Store?
Here's my take on this! CCP has no authority, no power over these late decisions. CCP is just following orders, Hilmar, CCP Zulu, CCP Pann, CCP Fallout, CCP whatever, they can't do anything about this, that's why most of them are as upset about those changes as we are, maybe even more, considering the fact that their (most loved) project is going to be screwed up and maybe even shut down eventually. As for CSM... LOL they weren't even consulted in all those late decisions. It's ALL JUST AN ACT, A CHARADE. This is why some of CCP's employees leaked documents and this is why everybody is afraid to speak. They, just like us, are only puppets.
For obvious reasons I will not elaborate more on this story, but for EVE's sake, wake up ppl, OPEN YOUR EYES!
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Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:10:00 -
[1245]
Originally by: Fuamnach The horse was out of the barn with PLEX.
And LP stores. And meta levels on items.
Quote: True, the precise value of PLEX in ISK floats on the ISK market. Nevertheless, once there is PLEX, real world money buys in-game items, "unearned" in-game advantage.
What PLEX-for-ISK really buys is someone else's ISK-grinding on your behalf. It is a give-and-take transaction.
Quote: Bear in mind that it is not even clear that CCP can produce NeX vanity items of sufficient attraction to sell them or continue to sell them to the EVE community at prices CCP determines.
Zara fashion does real-world fashion items from napkin to actual dress in bricks-and-mortar store in two weeks. They also have a high turnover model which drives people to buy more, since the customers do not have time to sit back and contemplate this week's fashion. It's buy or die in the well-dressed stakes.
Quote: If people tire of the novelty of NeX items, they will sell them for what they can get. ISK market prices will fall, and CCP will sell fewer of the same for AURUM, unless they respond by lowering AURUM prices.
CCP can also introduce new items, and keep bringing old ones back for limited periods to see if anyone's biting again.
Quote: Despite so many protestations pretending to outrage of high principle, a great deal of screaming here really just boils down to AURUM sticker shock.
A great deal of the screaming was due to the attempt to introduce a gold-scorpion-from-ether, which is a boneheaded move that I hope won't be repeated.
Quote: CCP likely erred by introducing the novel concept of vanity items at such extremely vain prices. More sensible would have been to rollout modestly price items now and extravagantly priced luxury items only after opening the inner Captain's Quarters doors to public areas.
I feel that CCP would have been better off introducing the extreme priced items at the same time as mid-range and "barely affordable" items. Remember it's a Noble Exchange, a shop for the ultra rich. CCP is trying to sell a small number of items at high prices to maintain an exclusive market. Adding too many affordable things will dilute the brand.
As it stands, the amount of jealousy focussed against people who are wearing monocles is awesome in terms of modelling the socio-economic class differences in the real world.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.29 08:51:00 -
[1246]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen This will be a challenging summit as I want to to be productive, not about butting heads and shouting and screaming. I aim at directing the discussions towards a logical path where a conclusion will be reached. What that conclusion will be and whether it will be to everyone's liking is not something I want to speculate on.
True. All kidding aside, this is serious, and everyone will be taking it very seriously. Nobody is going there to rage at CCP, simply to work the problem and report back.
Despite all the rage, we all want to help CCP succeed. If we didn't care, we'd just unsub and go away quietly. The rage is because people care deeply about the game and about the people of CCP, and can't bear to see everything go to hell.
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.06.29 09:09:00 -
[1247]
Edited by: zoolkhan on 29/06/2011 09:10:27 totally astray from the mainstream rage...a quote i found, that portraits the carelessness of the "product management" whomever that actually is nowadays: (full text here: much more interesting stuff, and constructive read - ccp should go there and chk)
"Someone who will only ever sit on his CQ couch and watch the random programming go by on his TV might also only ever undock to take part in ze blob. He has turned every last dial down when it comes to graphics options to get the most FPS possible out of those fights, but when he's doing nothing in the calm and quiet station environment, those same options make everything look like refried piles of cat hair. If it weren't so ugly, this player might enjoy his CQ and want to see more once Incarna comes out, but having to reset all those settings every time he undocks is just too much work." recruiting -forum
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Coco Caine
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Posted - 2011.06.29 09:41:00 -
[1248]
OMG, just followed the links about the investor structure of CCP.
No wonder.
Assuming those 'investors' are 'Good' private equity players, they'll try to get one, two years of extreme profitabilty to sell the corporation for a good price. If they are 'Bad' financial players, they'll sell your credit card data to chinese triads, wash money in the NEX shop and offer querulous CCP employees 'free' dental care and 'serious' career opportunities in the fishing industry. Anyway they will prolly not be interested in long-term commitment to anything but raw cash and are part of the illness that our society suffers today.
Good luck, time to go thrash some bankers :).
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.29 10:40:00 -
[1249]
Originally by: Coco Caine OMG, just followed the links about the investor structure of CCP.
No wonder.
Assuming those 'investors' are 'Good' private equity players, they'll try to get one, two years of extreme profitabilty to sell the corporation for a good price. If they are 'Bad' financial players, they'll sell your credit card data to chinese triads, wash money in the NEX shop and offer querulous CCP employees 'free' dental care and 'serious' career opportunities in the fishing industry. Anyway they will prolly not be interested in long-term commitment to anything but raw cash and are part of the illness that our society suffers today.
Good luck, time to go thrash some bankers :).
Scarry huh? :)
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Lunce
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Posted - 2011.06.29 10:43:00 -
[1250]
Originally by: Fuamnach Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:37:10 Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:36:28 The horse was out of the barn with PLEX. Why scream to close the barn doors now?
True, the precise value of PLEX in ISK floats on the ISK market. Nevertheless, once there is PLEX, real world money buys in-game items, "unearned" in-game advantage. (Not going to argue merits of PLEX-scheme here or the delusion of a "sandbox" economy utterly separate from "real world" economics.)
Similarly, so long as goods sold for AURUM, regardless whether vanity or consequential, can be bought and sold, at some point, on the ISK market AND so long as ISK can buy PLEX which can buy AURUM, little has changed except to make clear to all the change that already took place with PLEX.
Despite what we might call CCP's "currency manipulation" scheme to put upward pressure on the ISK price of PLEX, the value of even NeX items to the player community will still be reflected in and ultimately settled by the in-game price of any such objects on the ISK market. The value of PLEX, used to buy AURUM, still floats on the ISK market. ISK can be exchanged, albeit indirectly, for AURUM. Thus, the EVE "sandbox" economy still arbitrates the values of the EVE virtual world.
Bear in mind that it is not even clear that CCP can produce NeX vanity items of sufficient attraction to sell them or continue to sell them to the EVE community at prices CCP determines. If people tire of the novelty of NeX items, they will sell them for what they can get. ISK market prices will fall, and CCP will sell fewer of the same for AURUM, unless they respond by lowering AURUM prices.
Nothing seriously untoward has happened here. If people want to set their alarms for something, set them for NeX items for sale for AURUM (or dollars or yen) "bound" to avatar or account, and so not available on the ISK market. That would be an unprecedented breach of the EVE "sandbox."
Despite so many protestations pretending to outrage of high principle, a great deal of screaming here really just boils down to AURUM sticker shock.
CCP likely erred by introducing the novel concept of vanity items at such extremely vain prices. More sensible would have been to rollout modestly price items now and extravagantly priced luxury items only after opening the inner Captain's Quarters doors to public areas. There's only so much a mirror can do to stroke vanity; the full flowering of the Deadly Sin requires reflection in the eyes of others.
Thanks Fuamnach for providing this. You are spot on.
I see nothing detrimental to the game in adding 'Micro Transactions'.... As long as it remains exclusively vanity items and ship skins.
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The AsteroidDrainer
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.29 11:05:00 -
[1251]
Thanks Fuamnach for providing this. You are spot on.
I see nothing detrimental to the game in adding 'Micro Transactions'.... As long as it remains exclusively vanity items and ship skins.
ok i personly would love too see GOLD AMMO but it is no better than say faction equiv but it can b used more 4 showin off lol brought 4 AUR |
Sapegu
Gallente the muppets RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.06.29 11:27:00 -
[1252]
The reality of EVE is this, If CCP does not focus in GamePlay, correcting Fleet lag issues, PI lack of emotion, and Continuous miss leadance in Game objectives (latest revolution in Sanctums was a shot on the foot) this game will end soon. -1 to -0.8 Systems are really crouded so people can make money for plexes. If Isk isnt made, plexes wont be bought... An average guy with 8 accounts will not pay for them in real money... unless he is a rich person in RL. New ships are welcome,new Systems also... DREAD's should gain a place in POS bashing. Fighters should not be able to Lock POS or Stations, to make Dreads the best Ship for Damadge... as it should be. Realy, who needs clothes in EVE... i would walk around NAKED if i had to buy clothes with Isk or Plexes... Only guys with toons of ISk will buy those stuf.. Remember this, If EVE FALLS, CCP will go down. EVE suports CCP... do not igore that. Sapegu |
Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.29 12:31:00 -
[1253]
From CCP Games website -> About Us:
Quote:
CCP's mission is to attract and retain customers by providing top quality online entertainment. CCP does this by establishing and nurturing a trust relationship with customers both in terms of quality of content as well as quality of service.
CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games. By this and through this CCP provides a unique way for improving the quality of its products and creates an inspiring and challenging environment for talent to thrive.
We care more. We work harder.
Where is *this* CCP?
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Dalton Vanadis
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Posted - 2011.06.29 13:06:00 -
[1254]
Edited by: Dalton Vanadis on 29/06/2011 13:12:28
Originally by: Fuamnach Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:37:10 Edited by: Fuamnach on 29/06/2011 02:36:28 The horse was out of the barn with PLEX. Why scream to close the barn doors now?
True, the precise value of PLEX in ISK floats on the ISK market. Nevertheless, once there is PLEX, real world money buys in-game items, "unearned" in-game advantage. (Not going to argue merits of PLEX-scheme here or the delusion of a "sandbox" economy utterly separate from "real world" economics.)
Similarly, so long as goods sold for AURUM, regardless whether vanity or consequential, can be bought and sold, at some point, on the ISK market AND so long as ISK can buy PLEX which can buy AURUM, little has changed except to make clear to all the change that already took place with PLEX.
Despite what we might call CCP's "currency manipulation" scheme to put upward pressure on the ISK price of PLEX, the value of even NeX items to the player community will still be reflected in and ultimately settled by the in-game price of any such objects on the ISK market. The value of PLEX, used to buy AURUM, still floats on the ISK market. ISK can be exchanged, albeit indirectly, for AURUM. Thus, the EVE "sandbox" economy still arbitrates the values of the EVE virtual world.
Bear in mind that it is not even clear that CCP can produce NeX vanity items of sufficient attraction to sell them or continue to sell them to the EVE community at prices CCP determines. If people tire of the novelty of NeX items, they will sell them for what they can get. ISK market prices will fall, and CCP will sell fewer of the same for AURUM, unless they respond by lowering AURUM prices.
Nothing seriously untoward has happened here. If people want to set their alarms for something, set them for NeX items for sale for AURUM (or dollars or yen) "bound" to avatar or account, and so not available on the ISK market. That would be an unprecedented breach of the EVE "sandbox."
Despite so many protestations pretending to outrage of high principle, a great deal of screaming here really just boils down to AURUM sticker shock.
CCP likely erred by introducing the novel concept of vanity items at such extremely vain prices. More sensible would have been to rollout modestly price items now and extravagantly priced luxury items only after opening the inner Captain's Quarters doors to public areas. There's only so much a mirror can do to stroke vanity; the full flowering of the Deadly Sin requires reflection in the eyes of others.
The issue is that the items on the PLEX/ISK market require some player, somewhere to have created them or extracted the base materials (in 98% of the items, ignoring here skillbooks). Circumventing the player market and dropping it into the Aurum market for this instance of P2W takes out the player driven economy part for i-win lasers. It means players have little say in the pricing, markets, or any other aspect of the item's sale, which, if you didn't know, is a MASSIVE part of the game. Selling those items directly for aurum takes a big chunk out of what CCP has been going towards for years, an entirely player driven economy. Sure, players can game the economy with PLEX, but players determine the value of PLEX for in game items, players do NOT determine the value of PLEX for AUR or the items bought and sold through the NeX. That is a root issue with the P2W scheme here, not that RL cash can be used to influence the game (it can) but that players have a way to influence the impact of RL cash in the game now, they do not have a way to influence the cashflow in the NeX. It breaks the chain of player work to get the items by doing this instance of P2W.
Sticker shock is certainly prevalent, but it is not the core issue, the distinction of NeX vs. ISK market is very important when it comes to item sale.
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Xander Hunt
Minmatar Dead Rats Tell No Tales
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Posted - 2011.06.29 13:16:00 -
[1255]
Originally by: Souxie Alduin "However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days."
Umm.. could someone from CCP elaborate on this? This is definitely the part of this blog that has me the most worried. Did someone at the top sell you out? Are your venture capitalist investors forcing MT down your throat? Are you joining Sony and is it really their PR people talking through your mouths right now?
My instinct says this is exactly what is going on. With the new cost being passed on to developers for a mere $100 PER YEAR to get access to a database to continue developing software to help PROMOTE their own software, not only does it sound like a serious money grab, but lawyers are involved too who want a cut of their coin.
Protect their IP? EVERYONE knows what the game is about. NO ONE can take the data and apply it to something that isn't EVE. Any attempt to try and convince the data is theirs and not CCPs, based on the content alone, would be grounds for a lawsuit. One can't take the data from CCP and apply it to WoW, Dust, STO, or any other game.
With this "protection of IP" can also possibly lead to people losing their YouTube accounts because people are putting videos up of their battles, corp training videos, etc.
This game should be open wide data wise for better "IMMERSION". Graphics are one thing, but using utilities outside the game to help plan makes me personally feel a hell of a lot more invested than just flying the ship around.
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Xander Hunt
Minmatar Dead Rats Tell No Tales
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Posted - 2011.06.29 13:25:00 -
[1256]
Originally by: Gedid Tava As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.
However...
My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.
If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."
The difference here is we're talking about real world money versus in game credits. We already pay an astronomical amount for the multiple accounts we own, we developers are now having to more than pay half a years worth of fees each year ON TOP OF our regular month to month fees to only BETTER the game we're PAYING for (That sentence sounds circular - Its intentional), the THOUGHT of introducing game play altering items for a months game time is absurd, and whats worse, all of this CAME OUT OF THE BLUE without CSM, without a player base notification, nothing.
Its one thing for me to enter the wrong price for a contract and get ****d because I couldn't cancel it fast enough, or find out I bought a Carbon instead of a Charon, or giving away my ISK for the promise of getting double to quadrouple the amount back. Its an entirely different thing when a company starts taking my hard earned cash and starts taking the sand out of the sandbox and starts telling me "This is the only way you can play".
Next thing you know they're going to start charging real world fees to allow you to park your space ships in high-sec over down-time. :P
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Dalton Vanadis
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Posted - 2011.06.29 13:37:00 -
[1257]
Add in to my comment earlier to Fuanmarch:
Also, CCP presented compelling reasons at fanfest for why most vanity items will not be player built/designed (time to *****), I can understand why they went with the NeX. I think that it is indicative of their investor relations, their economy team, and their current CFO (who doesn't have any history in the game industry, having left Citi right before it's headlong crash into a mountain of debt, but details on bad investment decisions for another time). I think the old CCP would have just seeded the items on the market ala POS towers of old. But then again, that would have allowed for a way too obvious comparison between the items and something like a kilometer long hunk of metal with advanced weapons systems on it. As it stands, even with their level of separation to both have a way to quantify the demand and return on the development for these items with the NeX, players can still easily compare prices. Which leads to the sticker shock, and the all out dumbfounded feeling players have over that pricing structure.
For an example, even the most expensive, Japanese boutique designer jeans are about 6 orders of magnitude cheaper than an Arleigh Burke class destroyer (1,000 vs 2,000,000,000) (jeans to destroyer comparison for you if we're making RL comparisons to a game). So, logic of that particular analogy = crap. It also makes me wonder what financial "guru" decided to try and push that one through despite what I'm sure were several dev protests against it (seriously, anyone who knows that this was the game where the players built a search tool for their own forums, or their own FTP service, or have more commentary on their own game- politics than there are major news channels in the US wouldn't have tried that half-assed attempt to pull the wool over our eyes).
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 14:04:00 -
[1258]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/06/2011 14:05:55 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/06/2011 14:05:19
Originally by: Xander Hunt
With this "protection of IP" can also possibly lead to people losing their YouTube accounts because people are putting videos up of their battles, corp training videos, etc.
Yeah, even Blizzard are not *that* greedy and I dare say Blizzard's IP is an order or two of magnitude bigger and better than CCP's.
I created training videos buying the relevant software and spending weeks and now I am supposed to pay again and again, because I put 2 Google ads on my purchased hosting?
To pay people who can't even figure out how EvE's full of (fake) women that could use necklaces, ear pieces, shawls, headpieces. No, they had to put in some crap looking uniforms.
The worst part? They are DECALS. I play a 2003 MMO where wear looks more realistic, it has visible plies, bumps, relief.
In EvE? You burn your video card, in a room, alone and unseen, in the dark when lucky, under a shoddy lighting when less lucky. And usually you look totally different (in the worse ofc!) than in the character creation room.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Kuroki Meisa Kennedy
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Posted - 2011.06.29 14:11:00 -
[1259]
I like to wish the CSM and CCP goodluck.. Atleast the honest ones
And thanks Zoolkhan for that most intresting read. |
Senai Navara
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.29 14:41:00 -
[1260]
I'm not that much of a forum writer, this may be my first post (since years).
I'm playing the game very casually since 2003 and I like(d) the vision of CCP where EVE should go to (or lets say the glimpses of that vision, and the energy of the EVE Team since maybe one year ago, where something changed).
I like a game which is not mainstream or easy accessible, which is very complex and where you could play for years and even then discover something new.
For some time now, my perception is, that CCP has left this vision, for something different, more mainstream, more profit making, in general more simple (or getting more simple with time - starting for example with the agent system rework).
Maybe time and experience changed the leading heads of CCP, maybe it is really the fact, that someone else is dictating the path of EVE, but the fact is, that I have lost faith that CCP is following the same vision as from the start and until few years ago, and until this changes, I will not longer support or play EVE-Online, so hard this may be (for me).
As my subscriptions runs out in November, there is some time to see if something changes, but my subscription is canceled.
I wish you all luck and health,
Yours Senai Navara
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Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:51:00 -
[1261]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Despite all the rage, we all want to help CCP succeed. If we didn't care, we'd just unsub and go away quietly. The rage is because people care deeply about the game and about the people of CCP, and can't bear to see everything go to hell.
"care deeply about the game" Yes.
"care deeply ... about the people of CCP" Not so much. In fact, at this point not at all. And, if you are going into the meetings with this attitude you're already compromised. (IMO. With all respect to you personally.) CCP is a business and will make decisions to make money. That is proper. What is proper on my side is whether they continue to offer a product I wish to pay for. 'Original' Eve, yes. Eve + PLEX, well, OK. Eve + 'gold ammo' / 'bribery for Standings' / "We want to offer convenience for a price.", no.
However, I do totally agree with you that those CCP-CSM discussions are no place for 'raging' / tantrum throwing. Calm reasoned discourse to relay the solidly felt and expressed feelings of the community regarding game affecting MT is what's needed. And then to honestly relay back to the community the path CCP has decided to take. Whatever that path might be. That will be fair and then we can decide whether that path is one we wish to pay for. Or not.
I don't pay a subscription to only play today's game. I pay to play a long game with persistence and an adequate level of consistency.
Instant gratification is not Eve Online. (Well, not the Eve I started with and not one I will pay the subscription price for.)
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Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:47:00 -
[1262]
Originally by: Senai Navara Edited by: Senai Navara on 29/06/2011 15:03:56 I'm not that much of a forum writer, this may be my first post (since years).
I'm playing the game very casually since 2003 and I like(d) the vision of CCP where EVE should go to (or lets say the glimpses of that vision, and the energy of the EVE Team until maybe one year ago, where something changed).
I like a game which is not mainstream or easy accessible, which is very complex and where you could play for years and even then discover something new.
For some time now, my perception is, that CCP has left this vision, for something different, more mainstream, more profit making, in general more simple (or getting more simple with time - starting for example with the agent system rework).
Maybe time and experience changed the leading heads of CCP, maybe it is really the fact, that someone else is dictating the path of EVE, but the fact is, that I have lost faith that CCP is following the same vision as from the start and until few years ago, and until this changes, I will not longer support or play EVE-Online, so hard this may be (for me).
As my subscriptions runs out in November, there is some time to see if something changes, but my subscription is canceled.
I wish you all luck and health,
Yours Senai Navara
Yes.
I was drawn to, and stayed with, Eve Online because it was hard. And if you stuck with it, you got rewarded for your effort.
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DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.29 20:22:00 -
[1263]
All I can really say about the situation at the current time is:
Depends on the CSM summit if the boat rides the wave or gets capsized.
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PsyOpWarfare
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Posted - 2011.06.29 21:05:00 -
[1264]
I would have to say that i really respected EVE Online for what they have done until now. From how long it took you to say something to us about ripping us off I do not trust a single word you say! Your PR staff must have worked over time to come up with a way out of this and now you want us to take your words as the truth? I think not, you must SHOW US what you are going to do and not just SAY what you will do. I feel betrayed as a customer to be treated in such a way and like many other people thinking about leaving. However, I am going to give you guys a chance to make things right by SHOWING us.
I would like you to keep in mind all the other MMOs that have died that were very popular and one mistake cost them their fan base. Also keep this in you mind, that most of the EVE Online characters were invited by friends and then became active players. How many players have told their friends about what had happened and left this game. Heck, on WOW they are already laughing at EVE and saying its just a matter of time before it collapses. I do not want to see that as I left WOW to play this game. You must pay attention to WHAT your players SAY and DO, not one or the other.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.29 21:09:00 -
[1265]
CCP discusses microtransactions
"It sounds like your values have changed." "Yes." "Why?" "We're a company. Our core value is to have no values."
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
JawsOfDeath
Smell-O-Gram Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.29 21:34:00 -
[1266]
Edited by: JawsOfDeath on 29/06/2011 21:35:59 Ive been in this game since 2004, almost 7 years now. Paying, playing and building EVE like all players.
Sadly, this is seriously the FIRST time i have considered really quiting for good. I will let the next few days details decide the outcome. At the moment I am not angry, im hurt. I just realized that all the time, money and effort put in here, is worth SH|T to ccp, to EVE and to anyone else. Yes CCP is a company, but guess what!, i don¦t buy the products i use, or own for the good of a company. I buy them because i TRUST the company is the best for me. That the product is the best for me. So if u think u will find new players by competing between all the other new games, ur sadly mistaken. You need something some one WANTS to be able to sell it. You don't sell a product these days, YOU EARN THE CUSTOMER!. The competition is nasty, really bad. And in the end, having a guy pay ur salary for 7 years should be worth more then few extra $$$ on the side. Because in the end, when it gets though for companies, its there loyal clients they have to live on.
So show me why i should continue to pay your bill? I want to find a reason, but i need one showed. Show us, the guys paying your bills why we should trust u and do that.
Unless my views are changed in the next few days, consider my accounts, my 13 accounts, gone. Thats a year income of Ç2300 from one person, less. And YES i have designer cloths, but i wear the cloths i like to wear and play the games i like to play.
PS. SAAB is on its last leg and almost a dead company, because they cant sell there cars. Don't let EVE be something players don't want to play.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.29 21:36:00 -
[1267]
Originally by: Dalton Vanadis Add in to my comment earlier to Fuanmarch:
Also, CCP presented compelling reasons at fanfest for why most vanity items will not be player built/designed (time to *****), I can understand why they went with the NeX. I think that it is indicative of their investor relations, their economy team, and their current CFO (who doesn't have any history in the game industry, having left Citi right before it's headlong crash into a mountain of debt, but details on bad investment decisions for another time). I think the old CCP would have just seeded the items on the market ala POS towers of old. But then again, that would have allowed for a way too obvious comparison between the items and something like a kilometer long hunk of metal with advanced weapons systems on it. As it stands, even with their level of separation to both have a way to quantify the demand and return on the development for these items with the NeX, players can still easily compare prices. Which leads to the sticker shock, and the all out dumbfounded feeling players have over that pricing structure.
For an example, even the most expensive, Japanese boutique designer jeans are about 6 orders of magnitude cheaper than an Arleigh Burke class destroyer (1,000 vs 2,000,000,000) (jeans to destroyer comparison for you if we're making RL comparisons to a game). So, logic of that particular analogy = crap. It also makes me wonder what financial "guru" decided to try and push that one through despite what I'm sure were several dev protests against it (seriously, anyone who knows that this was the game where the players built a search tool for their own forums, or their own FTP service, or have more commentary on their own game- politics than there are major news channels in the US wouldn't have tried that half-assed attempt to pull the wool over our eyes).
QFT
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Dalton Vanadis
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Posted - 2011.06.29 23:28:00 -
[1268]
Edited by: Dalton Vanadis on 29/06/2011 23:30:52
Originally by: Angeliq
Want to know why?
http://www.fme.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=5877(page 7)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Bjorgolfsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Thorsteinsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rg%C3%B3lfur_Gu%C3%B0mundsson
http://is.linkedin.com/in/villithorsteinsson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/information/bjorgolfur-thor-bjorgolfsson/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straumur
Knock if off guys, nothing can be done. Enjoy EVE while you still can.
I smell an email campaign, perhaps start up a thread over with the CSM, have those CSM members write up a stock letter letting those investors know that if they do not bend to the will of the customer on this issue their investment will run aground harder than the Icelandic economy using as evidence the 4-5,000 some odd accounts currently unsubbed (and the amount of money out of pocket because of that) and a reasonable prediction of the further costs associated with more unsubbs who haven't declared. Project with that a reasonable amount of profit gained so far from their foray into MT and show the net difference. And further point out that if they push the issue on MT, they will be risking the jobs of over 600 people in 4 countries to push a measure that is HIGHLY unpopular with the player base.
I would think that any of those obviously greedy (or at least wealthy, if you want to be diplomatic) people would realize that the safety of their investment would be at extreme risk with very little reward, if at all, if they were to try and push a secondary revenue source into EVE. They might then push for something else, like an initial loan to CCP to push WoD out the door faster and a final push on Dust so its beta has fewer issues for recoding and development resources can be reassigned accordingly. Then insist on no corporate net growth on employees until these games stabilize for a couple of years (at least). But hey, that's probably like wishing for unicorns with rainbows coming out their ass.
If nothing else, it might be worth it to point out to them that trying to push MT further in EVE would be the equivalent of walmart ****ing off every suburban housewife by putting ****os in the kiddie section, advertising it in the local newspaper, and then ignore the problem while the housewives of America go ballistic on their ass and start shopping at Kmart. Right now though, we're at the stage of this analogy where wal-mart asks a few housewives over to corporate to see wtf the problem is with having ****os in the kiddie section.
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Ranita Drell
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 02:12:00 -
[1269]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 30/06/2011 02:15:49
Originally by: Dalton Vanadis For an example, even the most expensive, Japanese boutique designer jeans are about 6 orders of magnitude cheaper than an Arleigh Burke class destroyer (1,000 vs 2,000,000,000) (jeans to destroyer comparison for you if we're making RL comparisons to a game). So, logic of that particular analogy = crap.
Although, to be fair, in real life we don't have hundreds of thousands of people with personal wealth that allows them to own several destroyers/battleships.
I think the point Zulu was trying to make was that things like the monocles are a form of conspicuous consumption that could be appreciated as extreme displays of wealth even by their fellow capsuleers. The only way for them to serve that purpose is for them to carry ludicrous price tags.
The problem is that not all players/capsuleers that are interested in customizing their appearance care about showing of their space-rich e-peen, and that none of the NEX store items are reasonably priced -- and with the possible exception of the moncole, none of the clothing looks particularly unusual or extravagant. There's no reason for a uniform of all things to be so expensive.
And just to be clear, I think NEX store pricing while stupid (by and large) is more emblematic of the flaws in CCP's strategy than it is a serious flaw in itself.
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Darius Sokarad
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 02:13:00 -
[1270]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdJPFLfrLvs
Eve Online has lasted through a lot of ups and downs, but I think this might be the last one. Eve will not last very much longer if trends continue as they are.
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Royaldo
Gallente Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.06.30 03:38:00 -
[1271]
I dont care about the price on vanity items. They could cost 100b for all i care.
I just dont want special ships and mods to be obtainable through that store.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 03:38:00 -
[1272]
Originally by: Darius Sokarad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdJPFLfrLvs
Eve Online has lasted through a lot of ups and downs, but I think this might be the last one. Eve will not last very much longer if trends continue as they are.
Eerily brilliant vid. Sums it all up, doesn't it?
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Xandralkus
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 05:53:00 -
[1273]
Alrighty, so the problem arises from CCP executives having no say in what goes on with their company? Do they not know that maintaining majority control of their stock is paramount? Obviously not.
To the boneheaded f***nuggets behind this plan, the ones that are actually in charge of things behind CCP - there's got to be a single working brain cell up there somewhere. You know that you need us, the playerbase, in order to make your return on investment. That's right, your precious profits are directly dependent on us. CCP knows how to run their damn game, and if you don't listen to it, you deserve to lose every damned penny you poured into this investment. And make no mistake, you WILL lose it all, if you f*** with things much more.
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Royaldo
Gallente Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.06.30 06:06:00 -
[1274]
Edited by: Royaldo on 30/06/2011 06:07:03 I do not care about vanity items at all. I only care about selling items in that nex store that will give people something to use outside stations. If this ever happens, then Im out. I do not care about the price on vanity items. Because I will not buy it, its stupid. Its like the kittens and puppys in wow. Its dumb. I play eve to have fun and pvp IN SPACESHIPS - IN SPACE. I do not care about walking in stations. I want ship spinning back. Make the whole walking in stations optional. Or have the guys who want it, pay for it.
Plex was a rubbish idea.
You have been making EVE an "easier" game for quite some time now. Dumbing it down to the point where the old picture of eve's learning curve isnt true any longer.
EVE used to be hard. All you need now is a god damend credit card. You have been ignoring the playerbase for way too long now.
Lets make 1 thing perfectly clear: CCP and EVE is NOTHING without the community. You seems totally clueless about who is playing your game. You seem clueless on how to implement new stuff into the game(hello new maller model). You've gone more and more quiet. Hidden patch notes crap seems to be the standard these days. Like some pathetic kid who is afraid of telling the parents on what they really been doing. You dont listen to the CSM.
Sort your **** out. Or watch all 3 of your projects go down the toilett. Fast.
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Dariel Ash
Caldari Foetus Mart
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Posted - 2011.06.30 07:52:00 -
[1275]
What scares me the most is an apparent complete lack of market research.
I mean CCP is paying to fly a whole bunch of dudes over to iceland, the CSM, and they don't even ask them for their opinions on important stuff like this? So now when there's an uproar they decide to fly them over at the last minute. WTF?
So now everyone who is thinking of playing DUST or WOD is going to see this and think to themselves "well fvkk that".
I don't mind NeX in principle, but the stuff available is stupid-expensive and not even unique like most other items in EVE. |
Gem Lorefield
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:31:00 -
[1276]
All of you players, should be ashamed.
This newsletter as not for you to see. And many of you do not understand the fundamental nature to a Design Studio of the newsletter. It's purpose is to clearly and concisely point out the Pro's and Con's of an idea. And to Defend that idea as if it was meant to happen Next Day. In a Debate you do not say "what ifs" you treat things in absolutes, you give your ideas solidity and body. This process is critical to designing games, it helps give people ideas they hadnt thought of, and to find the absolute BEST results for YOU the player.
Whats more is most of the pieces to this newsletter were likely done on the people who wrote them's free time. They did it because they want to keep EVE a GREAT game years from now. And you all did nothing more than insult them. You have no right.
If I was to look at letters you all have written, to family, to friends, and look at it from my view without knowing the purpose of the letter, or anything about you, I could find faults with it, things that are wrong about it. But none of it would be right because I didn't know all the facts.
This is no different. This isn't fair. Everything in that newsletter is circumstantial when it comes to what they will be doing in the future, and they are doing it all for you all, to make ya'lls time more enjoyable.
So maybe your right, maybe they should just not do anything at all, keep the game the way it is, dont try to make new advancements or new gear or ships ammo or weapons. Take out the Captains Quarters because I hear many of you doing nothing but complaining about it.
All of the changes they have made since EVE's conception has been done using Newsletters like these, Newsletters with cultivate ideas and concepts, which help to make a better game.
I think what you all have done is unfair, you have judged people who's job is only ment to help you all have more fun, and to make your game time more entertaining. People who have spent sleepless nights drinking Energy Drinks to polish their models to the point of perfection. And then you all steal from them, take something that isn't yours to take, and then you persecute them when you do not comprehend what it is your reading.
IF by the end of my post you are not ashamed of yourself, you are not in the least bit sorry for how rude and disrespectful you have been to the CCP Staff who have worked so hard to make the game the wonderful platform it is now, then I encourage you to go ahead and cancel your account so that you can go play a game where everything is always the same so that you do not have to fear change anymore.
For those of you who did feel some regret, some tinge of guilt, or a hint of remorse or even more. I am glad, because it means you understand you've done wrong. And after that you can at least clear your conscioune and go back to enjoying EVE for what it is, a game that has taken space to the furthest limits and is still pushing out, and now has given you even more than just space.
Enjoy yourselves out there in the 'verse, and fly safe!
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tony dinozo
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.30 09:41:00 -
[1277]
Originally by: Gem Lorefield All of you players, should be ashamed.
This newsletter as not for you to see. And many of you do not understand the fundamental nature to a Design Studio of the newsletter. It's purpose is to clearly and concisely point out the Pro's and Con's of an idea. And to Defend that idea as if it was meant to happen Next Day. In a Debate you do not say "what ifs" you treat things in absolutes, you give your ideas solidity and body. This process is critical to designing games, it helps give people ideas they hadnt thought of, and to find the absolute BEST results for YOU the player.
Whats more is most of the pieces to this newsletter were likely done on the people who wrote them's free time. They did it because they want to keep EVE a GREAT game years from now. And you all did nothing more than insult them. You have no right.
If I was to look at letters you all have written, to family, to friends, and look at it from my view without knowing the purpose of the letter, or anything about you, I could find faults with it, things that are wrong about it. But none of it would be right because I didn't know all the facts.
This is no different. This isn't fair. Everything in that newsletter is circumstantial when it comes to what they will be doing in the future, and they are doing it all for you all, to make ya'lls time more enjoyable.
So maybe your right, maybe they should just not do anything at all, keep the game the way it is, dont try to make new advancements or new gear or ships ammo or weapons. Take out the Captains Quarters because I hear many of you doing nothing but complaining about it.
All of the changes they have made since EVE's conception has been done using Newsletters like these, Newsletters with cultivate ideas and concepts, which help to make a better game.
I think what you all have done is unfair, you have judged people who's job is only ment to help you all have more fun, and to make your game time more entertaining. People who have spent sleepless nights drinking Energy Drinks to polish their models to the point of perfection. And then you all steal from them, take something that isn't yours to take, and then you persecute them when you do not comprehend what it is your reading.
IF by the end of my post you are not ashamed of yourself, you are not in the least bit sorry for how rude and disrespectful you have been to the CCP Staff who have worked so hard to make the game the wonderful platform it is now, then I encourage you to go ahead and cancel your account so that you can go play a game where everything is always the same so that you do not have to fear change anymore.
For those of you who did feel some regret, some tinge of guilt, or a hint of remorse or even more. I am glad, because it means you understand you've done wrong. And after that you can at least clear your conscioune and go back to enjoying EVE for what it is, a game that has taken space to the furthest limits and is still pushing out, and now has given you even more than just space.
Enjoy yourselves out there in the 'verse, and fly safe!
is this second degree ? or are you some kind of CCP propaganda agent from ex soviet union secret police or What ? did you not understand what all this is about ? You compare the NL from CCP as family private letters, do you paid monthly PLEX to you family, are you a customer from your friends ? and, on my point of view, nobody steal the NL , it "showed up" on the net ... by itself ... and to answer you, i'm ashamed to read what you just posted ...
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.30 11:53:00 -
[1278]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 30/06/2011 11:53:44
After having read literally hundreds of posts on the matter, this particular insider note, from an anonymous CCP employee, has stuck out the most:
"Several years now CCP has predicted insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago."
And why? Because it has the ring of truth to it. And if CCP had come out with this openly, not shamefully mocking us as 'golden geese' behind our backs, who knows, I would probably be a lot more sympathetic to their dilemma.
People accept truth, even when that truth is hurtful. And they reject bullsh*t, even when it smells like flowers. Something to remember for NeX-t time.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Amalie Lautreck
Noctiscion Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.30 14:36:00 -
[1279]
First of all; decent expansion for an epic game. Ok, it's merely a taste of what to come, but initially I feel for ordering more.
But it seems there's stuff coming that I have no liking for. Due to financial stress (the october mortgage and R&D on two other games), I suspect further use of RL-money in-game is coming.
My stance is: Nothing beyond vanity items in the NEX-shop. Exlcusice content (P2W) would make me un-sub instantly. Also regular items for RL-money would have a serene impact on the industrial part of Eve and would prolly break it's magic (remember them articles in RL fianacial publications about Eve-economy?). SP is mostly a no-go too, although I s'pose I could accept new players buying SP up to a limit 10-20M. LP; no go.
So: Bling: ok. In-game items: I'm gone.
Shareholders might see "us" as nerds, well, in between my interests for Tolstoj, Mondrian and Guided By Voices, Eve caught me. It's a thrilling experience. I'd really like to keep on playing it. But if what I fear seeing is introduced into the game, I'm out.
So: Pls pretty pls don't break this wonderfull pixel-universe you've created. "Safety is a luxury" -Red Harvest |
Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.06.30 14:44:00 -
[1280]
Edited by: Aquana Abyss on 30/06/2011 14:53:38
Originally by: Gem Lorefield All of you players, should be ashamed... [and a rant about privacy]
Hi Gem,
Great trolling - for your first ever forum post - and well worthy of a response; though if these are your real views you're obviously a very naive and repressed person.
A corporate publication is very different to personal letters to family, and if you don't have any concept of professional/personal life divide then you're probably an orphan, unemployed or both. [Like you I also enjoy making deliberately incorrect assumptions]
I wonder if you would also consider wiki-leaks a terrible thing too? what about investigative journalism? Should we censor the internet too? All of these methods of sharing information obviously appear as some great evil to you - considering people responding to the leaked (and freely published) information should somehow feel ashamed of themselves?
I sense you have no clue what you're talking about and want to provoke a response (trolling?), well my response is: you're a muppet, and not a good one like Kermit, but a horribly character flawed and annoying one, like Miss Piggy.
CCP clearly have an agenda. An agenda that is only concerned with squeezing more money out of the game at the expense of the loyal fans and players. This is why people are so upset, it is because they actually care about the game and the company but feel betrayed by them.
Read all the "leaked" information and the published information such as blogs of the last few years and compare them to the earlier - and you will begin to notice this paradigm shift from CCP.
I remember back to CCP Oveur saying in an interview "We have probably been over-delivering with previous expansions..." - that was when the first alarm bell started ringing for me - it meant rather than full effort solely put on improving the game as before, they were beginning to ration the effort and spend more on marketing and "selling" the product than relying on the improvements alone to bring the growth.
I suspect you'd rather just crusade for CCP regardless though, not bother becoming informed on the matter and just bash everyone on the forum about how ashamed they should be for feeling betrayed and voicing it (good one!).
I think in fairness, you should spend less time considering CCP employees' feelings and more time considering the feelings of the players you post summary judgement on.
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Dalton Vanadis
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:19:00 -
[1281]
Originally by: Ranita Drell Edited by: Ranita Drell on 30/06/2011 07:55:49
Originally by: Dalton Vanadis For an example, even the most expensive, Japanese boutique designer jeans are about 6 orders of magnitude cheaper than an Arleigh Burke class destroyer (1,000 vs 2,000,000,000) (jeans to destroyer comparison for you if we're making RL comparisons to a game). So, logic of that particular analogy = crap.
Although, to be fair, in real life we don't have hundreds of thousands of people with personal wealth that allows them to own several destroyers/battleships.
I think the point Zulu was trying to make was that things like the monocles are a form of conspicuous consumption that could be appreciated as extreme displays of wealth even by capsuleers. The only way for them to serve that purpose is for them to carry ludicrous price tags.
The problem is that not all players/capsuleers that are interested in customizing their appearance care about showing off their space-rich e-peen, and that none of the NEX store items are reasonably priced -- and with the possible exception of the moncole, none of the clothing looks particularly unusual or extravagant. There's no reason for a uniform of all things to be so expensive.
And just to be clear, I think NEX store pricing while stupid (by and large) is more emblematic of the flaws in CCP's strategy than it is a serious flaw in itself.
I agree that it is not a fair comparison, and I think I made it clear in a later post that it is emblematic of flaws on CCP, whether or not it be investor relations and management control or just dissillusionment of those planning the games future.
I still like the comparison in price, and I went into this expansion hoping that clothes wouldn't be more expensive than a kilometer long hunk of metal, clearly I was wrong in that hope, it is not the major issue of the time though, just a fun comparison of little logic or at least unexplained logic of pricing everything so high.
I miss the company that could make fun of itself for it's mistakes, like the boot.ini bit, that still cracks me up. I miss the company that built expansions around what the players wanted. As it stands there are threads that are older than my niece about features that a massive number of players want, yet they still kind of sit in the back of the bus with the promise of a couple of years.
I like the idea of greater immersion in this game and making it the best sci-fi game on the planet, but I don't want CCP losing it's soul over that drive, or the player base that has made it what it is over the better part of a decade being lost because of the change.
But hopefully those CSM kiddies have got things running at a nice pace and we'll hear back soon on wtf is going on.
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Vin Hellsing
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:36:00 -
[1282]
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Morphisat Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.
Guys guys, the CSM thing is not a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is not committed to Incarna and the cash shop. This means they won't start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, and never will at any point in the future.
see how easy that was?
I see it as a PR stunt until CCP actually starts doing things that they attribute to feedback from CSM. Which they haven't, related to this disaster.
Actions, not words, will define what happens to EVE.
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Vuiko Tarasovich
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:21:00 -
[1283]
Edited by: Vuiko Tarasovich on 30/06/2011 20:22:01
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Originally by: GATORAN
Originally by: Morphisat Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.
Guys guys, the CSM thing is not a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.
CCP is not committed to Incarna and the cash shop. This means they won't start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, and never will at any point in the future.
see how easy that was?
I see it as a PR stunt until CCP actually starts doing things that they attribute to feedback from CSM. Which they haven't, related to this disaster.
Actions, not words, will define what happens to EVE.
This "Actions, not words" mantra that everyone seems to be chanting confuses me...
CCP's Actions in the last patch:
Release Captain's Quarters - visually pleasing but useless for gameplay, basically a visual confirmation of the deployment of the code for walking in stations, this will allow future actions in stations to be possible.
Agent Finder - people have wanted this for years. kudos.
Several visual effects upgrades - don't change the game, but look nice.
NeX - Allows players to use real life money to pay for overpriced vanity items. Take this as you will, but I don't think it's an evil thing - seems comparable to the eve store where you can buy overpriced vanity items in real life. Personally, i plan to collect 4 plex, break them, and buy a monocle (or one of those spiffy odin's eyes) out of spite for players who want lower prices. Note that this is not the real issue here, vanity items for real money is probably acceptable on the standards of most of the playerbase.
What CCP Has Said:
There will be no gold ammo - gold ammo is a term from world of tanks, which apparently half of nullsec plays, which means in game advantage purchased with real life money.
Damning internal newsletter debating putting gold ammo in the game - personally, I see no problem with CCP discussing gold ammo and using eve as a basis to talk about it. WoD and Dust (which WILL use a microtransaction payment method) don't exist yet, so everyone at CCP can probably best voice their opinions in an eve context. The issue is that talking about it in such a way goes against what CCP has promised in the past and breaks player trust. Sucks that this newsletter got out then, the employee who leaked it was probably fired.
___________________________________________________________________________________
This break of player trust is the real issue here. If CCP wants to stop the forum ****storm then they should probably come out with a satisfactory explanation of what the newsletter's function in the company is and exactly why they were using eve as a base to debate microtransactions. "Never putting game changing items in nex" Is not an action that CCP can take because it is not an action, it is what they are doing right now, but they can never finish the action without ending eve. They can never say "Alright now we have completed never putting game changing items in nex". How will you know, if not through words, that there will never be gold ammo in nex? The only way CCP can solve this is through words and actions which back up those words.
so errm yeah.... actions over words mate, if you're going to keep spouting that like some hivemind forum zombie then at least realize that it puts CCP in a positive light.
PS: I am not unsubbing until the day that gold ammo hits NeX, though to be honest if i am rich enough in isk by then i might just buy a bunch of plex and pwn noobs anyway before i got bored of it.
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Glaso Fruixette
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Posted - 2011.07.01 15:19:00 -
[1284]
Do we have any info from the meeting yet?
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Ehranavaar
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.01 17:18:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: Ranita Drell
Although, to be fair, in real life we don't have hundreds of thousands of people with personal wealth that allows them to own several destroyers/battleships.
I think the point Zulu was trying to make was that things like the monocles are a form of conspicuous consumption that could be appreciated as extreme displays of wealth even by capsuleers. The only way for them to serve that purpose is for them to carry ludicrous price tags.
regarding the first point we may not be at that point yet but we are certainly heading in that direction at speed.
re 2nd point rich people are truly different souls than we mere mortals. for instance years ago rolls royce noticed their annual sales dropping. when they checked into what was causing the drop they found that the price of the top line german cars had crept up within some magic distance of the lower end rolls. they upped the price of rolls cars and lo sales went back up to expected levels. prestige and epeen can be worth insane amounts of money to the truly rich it seems.
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Jamina Galandel
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Posted - 2011.07.01 19:39:00 -
[1286]
Edited by: Jamina Galandel on 01/07/2011 19:44:40 Hi all, this is my second post on the eve forums and I have been with eve since the beginning (just with another char). I never felt that it was vital to post your own views/thoughts into the forums as I hardly believed that CCP would actually listen to what I had to say. Because I don't know the average age of eve gamers, I wasn't sure, if I was to be considered an outsider with an opinion no one wants to hear about (would be interesting to know the age distribution on subscribers - could we have some numbers on that, CCP?).
That being said...For the fist time I do feel that I have to say something now. Not only to CCP, but also to the rest of the eve community:
As an oldtimer mostly in highsec I felt that eve didn't really offer a lot more than it originally did. It was mostly small changes. This wasn't necessary a bad thing, but I always felt, that the low sec was getting too much attention and I just don't have enough free time as a hard earning oldtimer to spend hours in eve getting the newest update on the political situation in our corp. Every time I logged in, I was surprised to find out, that our corp was in some warfare again. This made it impossible to have a "quick" game, as undocking could be fatal. It made me go back to high sec, where after a while I didn't have a lot in common with my old corp anymore. So I left them. Now I am mostly on my own doing missions. And this is exactly one aspect of the game that should have got a LOT more attention by CCP for a long time. A lot of people do missions to get ISK, but I always felt, that the story was not very interesting. You just didn't feel affected or involved personnally into the storyline. In the end you just looked at the short summary and pressed the accept button.
CCP promised to change this, by introducing easier content updates and dynamic text and events into eve. Somehow I must have missed that bit.
Mining still didn't get any big change, allthough CCP wanted to tackle it.
BUT... all the changes were up till now optional and I had a choice. This seems to take a different course now.
I also don't want the MT-shop AT ALL. Reasons have been stated all over the forums. I also feel, that the money I spend on eve is only used to a minimum degree for the development of eve. Therefor I am not a very happy chicken.
Long story, quick resumTe: I will wait and see what CCP will do (not just say), in order to resolve this mess. I also want to make quite clear, that I have my finger hovering over the "quit subscription" button.
I will be watching eve the next two months very closely. If this is not the course I would like to see eve take, the button will be pressed without hesitation. It seems, this is the only way to vote with an effect.
It doesn't make me furious with rage, but merely very sad, as I have been a fan for such a long time and introduced a lot of friends to it until recently.
DO something about it, CCP! Remove the MT-shop alltogether or at least promise that only vanity-items will be sold, period! And take the CSM seriously!
Nuff' said! This will (hopefully) be my second and last post on this forum.
Lt. Galandel signing off
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:47:00 -
[1287]
Originally by: Glaso Fruixette Do we have any info from the meeting yet?
Nothing useful that I've found. Just waffling from day 1.
But they should be finished with day two by now since it's 10:45PM on 1/7 in Reykjavik.
I'm expecting a monumental pile of nothing from CCP and a "welp, we tried" from the CSM. |
ITBob
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:19:00 -
[1288]
I'm out CCP. You get no more of my money.
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Caius LiviusCerso
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 05:50:00 -
[1289]
Has there been any news? I like paying USD and $ for my many accounts since I like helping develop eve. If they do point it will have MT for game bonus, Im out too.
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Photon Ceray
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Posted - 2011.07.02 10:01:00 -
[1290]
CCP, my grandma told me this story when I was a kid:
Once upon a time there was a farmer who had a special chicken, every day it made a golden egg.
And then one day, he got too greedy,and so he cut the chicken, only to find it empty inside; now he lost the golden egg a day too!
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH EVE!
tell your fraking investors to shove their greed up their ass or they will lose their whole investment!
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Cyber Mana
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Posted - 2011.07.02 13:26:00 -
[1291]
My subscription was due to renew on the 6th of July. Well, I canceled that and will wait for the decision of CCP.
If I don't like what's going on. I'm gone. Then, my other accounts will follow.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 14:22:00 -
[1292]
The Realities of EVE are easy to see if you stop drinking the kool-aid.
CCP (Charlatan Chimp Productions) has completely sold out. They are drunk (like a pedo in a toystore) on the idea of more money, more subs and more transactions. They think that their two other games (WoD, Dust) are going to make them even fatter and richer. This is all they can think about. They do not care about quality or excellence, they only care about money. Lots and lots of Money. So long as they can sell you bull****, claiming it is gold, and make the money, they will.
**** them. Let this company die. The world does not need another electronic arts, another activision or another apple.
Great games are a labor of love by designers with a dream. Everything else is just inane fodder that the greedy try to sell as greatness.
CCP is to Digital Entertainment as McDonalds is to Nutrition.
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Neutral Updater
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:43:00 -
[1293]
Edited by: Neutral Updater on 02/07/2011 21:43:23 *delete*
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Serpensis
Gallente Ghosts of Grey
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:46:00 -
[1294]
"The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
Goodbye gents, it has been an honor flying with many of you. "Fartarse" of UKC, "Scottey" of UKC and every other member of one of the best corps in EVE. "Shodu" and "nappy", thank you for bringing clarity to my void. Fart, I will miss you - for all time, you and Eric Hunt are my most fond memories of EVE. And, IOCTL, if you got a connection from the world beyond, thank you for scaring the **** out of me when you and CoC were contracted to kill us.
Right now my main, Serpensis, a +100M SP veteran from 2004 is about to become biomass, waiting in queue. My 2 belowed sidekicks, MaggieMae and MsFreeze, that I have made, trained and and cared for goes the same way. If you ask for my stuff, you only show what kind of a probie you are.
You Gekkos that run around in CCP office now, you are pretty ****ing far from the guys who ran the place when I joined for beta 7, when the goal was to make the best space mmorpg ever. You have become http://www.habbo.com/
Thank you for all the laughs, thank you for all the really good times. Thank you for all your passion. This is Serpensis signing off. 11 accounts cancelled. No monocles for me please. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty." |
Pod Assasin Sally
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:37:00 -
[1295]
Edited by: Pod Assasin Sally on 03/07/2011 08:38:33 1) Can the current leadership at CCP survive this? 2) Will there be an internal purge at CCP, cutting off the heads of the Hydra? 3) Will Hilmar P. decide to sell out, take the money, and run?
"The beast returns each night until justice is done, Sahib." - Gotonuto Zamatonswa, Namibian guide
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Kendra Wilkinson
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:19:00 -
[1296]
i have just one question : "PLEX FOR DEV" when?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:33:00 -
[1297]
Originally by: Serpensis (...) If you ask for my stuff, you only show what kind of a probie you are.
Can I haz your stuff? ... cuz I'm dying to find out what a 'probie' is. :)
Seriously now, you have my respect, mate. Of all the alleged unsubbers, you're the only one with the guts to actually biomass your characters. I wouldn't be able to do so myself, to be honest.
Here's to hoping you find a monocle-free MMO life elsewhere!
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Anuiruson Bennington
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Posted - 2011.08.01 14:22:00 -
[1298]
Someone took their jar of dirt.
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harmless bear
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Posted - 2011.08.09 07:46:00 -
[1299]
we dont give a **** about your god damn virtual goods strategy, or how the game looks, or walking in space ships, or dusk 123434645675678. We want fixed bugs, polished ui, banned macroers, and new valid content.
thank you, good bye
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Strake Ironsides
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Posted - 2011.08.13 09:18:00 -
[1300]
Well I figured that Serpensis was just blowing smoke so I put his name into my locator agent... Serpensis Doesn't Exist. |
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