Group PvE, in this MMO?!

Seriously, do it, surprise yourself. It's not like you even need to worry about aggro switching when shooting non-sleepers & non-incursion sanshas.

Here are some raw numbers useful for understanding the proposed HML, beam laser and artillery changes:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20
Alpha: 92
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21
Alpha: 91
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 27.8

720mm Artillery II with Tremor:
DPS: 17
Alpha: 242
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 22 km
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 24

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Caldari Navy Scourge:
DPS: 23 (previously 29)
Alpha: 189 (previously 237)
Range: 63 km (previously 84)
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 94.5
CPU: 41.3

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.

I already group when I can because it's faster/easier to generate more money and way less boring, but no, I should not have to group up to generate income. If the only time I can log in is during off-peak hours I have no chance of grouping up.

It's worth repeating, I'm almost glad to see the drake nerfed in pvp, but there's no real viable replacement for newbies in nullsec pve, and while i'd rather not, if I have to set foot in low sec or high-sec to generate a reasonable amount of income, I'm just going to scam it out of someone rather than waste my time.

Since we planning to reduce the powergrid needs of all medium artillery by 10% across the board, we are also planning to subtract 225 PG from the Hurricane, leaving it with a base powergrid of 1125.
The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant. Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.
The hurricane will likely receive significantly more changes when we get to battlecruisers in the balance pass, but this is designed as a compensation for the drop in Arty PG and to help alleviate the problem of Arty ships having so much free PG when they use autocannons.

Pick any direction you like with a firewall setup. Do those work on turret based weapon ammo? Didn't think so.

This is my main concern.New players will be those who will have hard time.When I say new I think those that are up to 6-7 months old.It is not problem to get other ships more used it is that they / we dont have what other ships to use to be if nothing close to effective as those two are mostly reason for this nerf it seems.

I would not have problem to use T2 cruiser on my Caldari pilot ,but that T2 suck so bad .

I will say same as I did in my previous post ,HML was op in some things like range and same dps application no matter of target distance ,but was that dmg so much op to be 20% less now with this proposed changes?

Again I would not have problem if I am player that is two years old and you have gunnery and cross trained ship options,but sadly I dont have.For us it will be even more hard to get involved in some cool stuff older players do just cause some went Caldari way.

Lucky for me I have one more pilot with gunnery :/.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Improve bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

This game isn't supposed to be easy for newer players. I started Amarr and I had a hell of a hard time trying to work my way through the Omen, Harbinger and Apocalypse with T1 fittings. The fact that this game is such a breeze with a t1 drake or raven is an insult to all other races.

Way to completely hamstring the hurricane. You won't be able to fit a decent armor cane with these changes. It's now a ****** nano-cane or nothing.

I don't understand this argument, If everything is equally useless then surely everything is also equally useful ? (i.e. balanced, nothing is significantly OP or UP compared to each other ?)

To the moderators: If my comments below are to harsh please leave the top bit of my post in when you delete it, Ta.

Requesting a jita riot because the developers are working on ship balencing ? You are a f**king clown and the absolute problem with this game. I feel sorry for the developers having to deal with people like you, the type that moan at them for not doing anything, and then moan at them when they do try to do stuff.

Sure you can. You just won't be able to fit 2 1600mm plates, 2x Medium Neuts and 425mm ACs. You'll have to work for your fitting. Try using 1 plate. Or downgrade your neuts. Or downgrade your ACs. Trust me, it works.

edit: also, if defender missiles worked properly, complaints about HMs would probably stop

It sure mitigates it.

Another counter could be to bring a friend with tracking links. Hue hue.

You cant fit that. Dual plate requires 180s.;

Way to completely hamstring the hurricane. You won't be able to fit a decent armor cane with these changes. It's now a ****** nano-cane or nothing. Nice work on making the game even more uniform and less interesting.

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

Way to completely hamstring the hurricane. You won't be able to fit a decent armor cane with these changes. It's now a ****** nano-cane or nothing. Nice work on making the game even more uniform and less interesting.

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)

..because comparing guns with missiles is good to begin with? Why don't you add in drones in that equation too, that's about as reasonable as your apples and oranges. If you wanted to be fair, you'd at the very least also mention missiles travel time, and mention smartbomb/FoF that kills missiles/drones but not gun damage (but you could mention TDs affect guns/drones but not missiles).

You also forgot to mention which ships that is affected in what way with what bonuses (gun- and missile ships tend to have a different way of handing out bonuses, like your beam comment should mention that almost every damn Amarr ship there is has a cap bonus built in).

Horrible one-sided argument with obvious flaws, mate, try again.

Sure you can. You just won't be able to fit 2 1600mm plates, 2x Medium Neuts and 425mm ACs. You'll have to work for your fitting. Try using 1 plate. Or downgrade your neuts. Or downgrade your ACs. Trust me, it works.

The current proposed changes make them useless for everything except blobbing where they will then be just ok.