So your T1 BC was better than a faction battleship, but it didn't need a nerf?

Ok.

Still, even with the changes it's pretty short range and having 2 TE means you have to sacrifice damage, tank or speed to get it to work.

As opposed to which other ships in EvE? Ohyou.jpg

Not the ship, the missiles. HMs just get rid of Frigates and Cruisers faster. CMs get rid of BS faster. Swings and round abouts, but on balance HMs still faster overall IMHO.

I don't see why that means they needed a nerf, all CCP needed to do was change the NPC ship balance on Lvl 4s if they needed to be. I don't accept they do - happy with them as they were.

With the Hurricane and harbinger there's no real problem with fitting 2 TE, 2 damage mods, a damage control and either a fitting mod or a nano.

How many beam harbingers do you see? None? There's a reason for that.

It's not all about PVP. Drakes will be rubbish in PVE as well, which makes Baby Jesus QQ IRL

It will be far from useless. You get a little less range, which is well over due, and a little less dps. However, you can fit a targeting computer in the mids, sacrificing some tank for greatly improved damage application. Also keep in mind that the Drake will get a revamp along with every other BC in time, and I think it will all pan out very well.

Considering that the AC cane is being nerfed, and the armor cane effectively removed, it's not that bad.

I for one like the changes off the bat, I Friggin hate Drakes, I can fly them well but they were to good at to much.

Meta 4 neuts should let you get it on there. I'd say the standard would be 425s and 1 medium/1 small.

I'm not arguing that the drake doesn't need a nerf. I'm saying that the current suggestion will make it obsolete.

Drop to meta 4 on shield cane, swap one trimark for an ACR and use medium meta neuts on the armor Cane.

Normal stuff you have to do on every other ship in game, they are called fitting compromises, a vital ingredient in balance between ships.

I have a Drake that slings missiles 110km, so obsolete, 80km doing 350 DPS us acceptable for a medium weapon system.

If you want to brawl with the canes and taller, HAM --------> again just like the rest of the BCs, no one size fits all Drake.

Heavy Missiles:

Well, I was suggesting a NERF to heavy missile range for a long time now. The aforementioned had a serious advantage over comparable turrets (artillery, beam laser). @ first I didn't like the reduction in damage, but it makes sense when compared to artillery and beam laser @ 60,000m (using long range ammunition).

Increasing heavy assault missiles range by fitting tracking enhancers is interesting, but isn't needed if CCP's removing the penalties of javelin missiles...

So, pilots have to fit 3 damage mods on thier heavy missile-Drakes instead of 2 (I rock 3 now). You'd need 3 damage modules to repilcate what 2 damage modules are capable of doing currently. How much will this really NERF the Tengu? Not that much. Infact, it puts the Tengu inline with a Proteus using railguns or a Legion using pulse lasers @ 45 - 55,000m. However, there's still a significant difference in range and damage maintained @ that range. Solo-Tengu setups will be hit HARD. CCP should also remove the ability of strategic cruisers to fit ganglinks altogether. To make sure Command ships are the first and only choice for that purpose.


Cruisers:

These changes are the most interesting. I'm not going to go into why to much, but the Caracal and Thorax seem to make it out like bandits. I'm waiting to see what will happen with the Rupture and Vexor. I'm worried about the Vexor, but after seeing the Thorax changes I'm worried about the Thorax @tleast in warp scrambler and stasis webifier range. However, the Moa could suprise me esp if they increased the drone bay like they with the Omen.


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Well, with the changes it'll be 60 or 50km doing 300dps. HAM's suck a bit because they need to be in scram range and are awful against frigates.

All this stuff about medium weapons systems is meaningless when there's a lineup of battlecruisers that fit BS guns. People pick the things that work best regardless of how it's 'meant' to be used. Like medium rails and beams, HML's would become fairly pointless. Therefore people will fly things that have good speed and damage projection. A null talos, nado and arty cane will probably have the best combination of speed and damage. That's why people will fly those in roaming gangs and why drakes will be obsolete.

Almost finnished training the Tengu, and suddenly I see CCP Fozzie announcing Heavy Missiles will be nerfed https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Will people switch to Heavy Assault Missiles for the Tengu and Drake (the Assaults will not be rebalanced in the winter Expansion), or is it something thats just not done? I'm fairly new to these ships, that's all.

Old-school 2007-2008 HAM Drake used to reliably beat other BCs, with the amusing exception of the Myrm. While blasters and ACs do a bit more damage these days, it's still extremely competitive, particularly if Rage is going to do even more damage. Frigates never used to be a fundamental problem, although shooting kinetic at an ABing Enyo is unlikely to be sensible.

the HML nerfed is far too much imo, granted the tengu and HML ships arnt my everyday choice, but with 20% less dps i might just not use them again at all.

Meta 4 neuts should let you get it on there. I'd say the standard would be 425s and 1 medium/1 small.

I'm not arguing that the drake doesn't need a nerf. I'm saying that the current suggestion will make it obsolete.

We don't know yet, basically. But my read so far is that TCs are going to be all around better. Not only do they effect everything and not just a specific target for 10 seconds, they can also either increase range or damage application.

This is actually sounding like all kinds of awesome. Rather than cycling painters, which is hellishly boring and micro-managey, you get the same choices you would on a proper gun boat and only have to fiddle with the module when you need another option. Now, if we could just get them to script omnis I'll be ridiculously happy....