Almost finnished training the Tengu, and suddenly I see CCP Fozzie announcing Heavy Missiles will be nerfed https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Will people switch to Heavy Assault Missiles for the Tengu and Drake (the Assaults will not be rebalanced in the winter Expansion), or is it something thats just not done? I'm fairly new to these ships, that's all.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)

Heavy missiles go faster, hit harder, T2 ammo ship penalties are getting removed, and all at the cost of a 30% reduction in flight time combined with tracking computers/enhancers becoming rDPS->eDPS conversion modules just as they are for guns.

Did I miss the nerf or are people just focusing on the range of heavy missiles going from around 80km to 60km to the exclusion of all else?

Heavy missiles...hit harder

Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly

The meat of this thread however is about missiles. There's a number of missile changes we have planned for the Winter, including the already announced buff to light missiles, a nerf to heavy missile range and damage to put them in line with other long range cruiser weapons, a rework of all T2 missiles so they become usable, and the expansion of both tracking enhancers and tracking disruptors into the realm of missiles.

All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Light Missiles
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Improve bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

Uhhh i guess you're trolling.

You're still talking about ~30km range on a drake with 2 TEs. Because of the way missiles work that will effectively be 25km or so.

So missile boats will have to add TEs with BCUs with their anemic slot layout?

Or TCs. Your choice.

I hear ya. Genuine question since you seem to know your way around fitting ships: I usually run TPs in my mids, so does this mean I have to choose between TPs or TCs? Or am I being a noob and missing something?

I usually run TPs in my mids, so does this mean I have to choose between TPs or TCs? Or am I being a noob and missing something?

It most likely will still do the same DPS as it currently does, just at a slightly less range(Until you take into account TEs and TCs). Oh and not to mention the fact that Furies are getting a DPS boost.

We don't know yet, basically. But my read so far is that TCs are going to be all around better. Not only do they effect everything and not just a specific target for 10 seconds, they can also either increase range or damage application.

This is actually sounding like all kinds of awesome. Rather than cycling painters, which is hellishly boring and micro-managey, you get the same choices you would on a proper gun boat and only have to fiddle with the module when you need another option. Now, if we could just get them to script omnis I'll be ridiculously happy....

I'm guessing you can either fit TE's in the lowslots or TC's in the mids. I'd make a guess and say that a TC in the mids would be the best option, considering how garbage a missile ship's dps will be (you'll desperately need all those BCUs).

Going by the current changes to heavy missiles a 2 BCU drake will do 300ish DPS out to 50km (400 with drones) and will be shut down by tracking disruptors. In other words it's garbage.

... in a Tengu.

Or about as good as a Harb (circa 300 gun DPS @ 53km with Aroura... or 170 gun DPS @ 48km with Radio - and that's with the same 2 Heat Sinks).

this change is stupid and will never ever go live like that.

I personally won't go HAM if the changes noted in the post happen. Probably give up on anything over Rocket-sized, shift over to Projectile or lazors on my alts instead.

Gutted about the proposed changes - loved doing Lvl 4s in my Drake. Preferable to my CNR & SNI.

I'd go as far as to say that drakes will become obsolete in small gangs if the current nerf goes through. There would be no real reason to fly them since tier 3 battlecruisers would be far superior in the damage at mid range role - due to their higher dps at all ranges, speed and ability to kill things quickly.

So your T1 BC was better than a faction battleship, but it didn't need a nerf?

Ok.

Still, even with the changes it's pretty short range and having 2 TE means you have to sacrifice damage, tank or speed to get it to work.

As opposed to which other ships in EvE? Ohyou.jpg

Not the ship, the missiles. HMs just get rid of Frigates and Cruisers faster. CMs get rid of BS faster. Swings and round abouts, but on balance HMs still faster overall IMHO.

I don't see why that means they needed a nerf, all CCP needed to do was change the NPC ship balance on Lvl 4s if they needed to be. I don't accept they do - happy with them as they were.

With the Hurricane and harbinger there's no real problem with fitting 2 TE, 2 damage mods, a damage control and either a fitting mod or a nano.

How many beam harbingers do you see? None? There's a reason for that.

It's not all about PVP. Drakes will be rubbish in PVE as well, which makes Baby Jesus QQ IRL

It will be far from useless. You get a little less range, which is well over due, and a little less dps. However, you can fit a targeting computer in the mids, sacrificing some tank for greatly improved damage application. Also keep in mind that the Drake will get a revamp along with every other BC in time, and I think it will all pan out very well.

Considering that the AC cane is being nerfed, and the armor cane effectively removed, it's not that bad.

I for one like the changes off the bat, I Friggin hate Drakes, I can fly them well but they were to good at to much.

Meta 4 neuts should let you get it on there. I'd say the standard would be 425s and 1 medium/1 small.

I'm not arguing that the drake doesn't need a nerf. I'm saying that the current suggestion will make it obsolete.

Drop to meta 4 on shield cane, swap one trimark for an ACR and use medium meta neuts on the armor Cane.

Normal stuff you have to do on every other ship in game, they are called fitting compromises, a vital ingredient in balance between ships.

I have a Drake that slings missiles 110km, so obsolete, 80km doing 350 DPS us acceptable for a medium weapon system.

If you want to brawl with the canes and taller, HAM --------> again just like the rest of the BCs, no one size fits all Drake.

Heavy Missiles:

Well, I was suggesting a NERF to heavy missile range for a long time now. The aforementioned had a serious advantage over comparable turrets (artillery, beam laser). @ first I didn't like the reduction in damage, but it makes sense when compared to artillery and beam laser @ 60,000m (using long range ammunition).

Increasing heavy assault missiles range by fitting tracking enhancers is interesting, but isn't needed if CCP's removing the penalties of javelin missiles...

So, pilots have to fit 3 damage mods on thier heavy missile-Drakes instead of 2 (I rock 3 now). You'd need 3 damage modules to repilcate what 2 damage modules are capable of doing currently. How much will this really NERF the Tengu? Not that much. Infact, it puts the Tengu inline with a Proteus using railguns or a Legion using pulse lasers @ 45 - 55,000m. However, there's still a significant difference in range and damage maintained @ that range. Solo-Tengu setups will be hit HARD. CCP should also remove the ability of strategic cruisers to fit ganglinks altogether. To make sure Command ships are the first and only choice for that purpose.


Cruisers:

These changes are the most interesting. I'm not going to go into why to much, but the Caracal and Thorax seem to make it out like bandits. I'm waiting to see what will happen with the Rupture and Vexor. I'm worried about the Vexor, but after seeing the Thorax changes I'm worried about the Thorax @tleast in warp scrambler and stasis webifier range. However, the Moa could suprise me esp if they increased the drone bay like they with the Omen.


- end of transmission

Well, with the changes it'll be 60 or 50km doing 300dps. HAM's suck a bit because they need to be in scram range and are awful against frigates.

All this stuff about medium weapons systems is meaningless when there's a lineup of battlecruisers that fit BS guns. People pick the things that work best regardless of how it's 'meant' to be used. Like medium rails and beams, HML's would become fairly pointless. Therefore people will fly things that have good speed and damage projection. A null talos, nado and arty cane will probably have the best combination of speed and damage. That's why people will fly those in roaming gangs and why drakes will be obsolete.

Almost finnished training the Tengu, and suddenly I see CCP Fozzie announcing Heavy Missiles will be nerfed https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Will people switch to Heavy Assault Missiles for the Tengu and Drake (the Assaults will not be rebalanced in the winter Expansion), or is it something thats just not done? I'm fairly new to these ships, that's all.

Old-school 2007-2008 HAM Drake used to reliably beat other BCs, with the amusing exception of the Myrm. While blasters and ACs do a bit more damage these days, it's still extremely competitive, particularly if Rage is going to do even more damage. Frigates never used to be a fundamental problem, although shooting kinetic at an ABing Enyo is unlikely to be sensible.

the HML nerfed is far too much imo, granted the tengu and HML ships arnt my everyday choice, but with 20% less dps i might just not use them again at all.

Meta 4 neuts should let you get it on there. I'd say the standard would be 425s and 1 medium/1 small.

I'm not arguing that the drake doesn't need a nerf. I'm saying that the current suggestion will make it obsolete.

We don't know yet, basically. But my read so far is that TCs are going to be all around better. Not only do they effect everything and not just a specific target for 10 seconds, they can also either increase range or damage application.

This is actually sounding like all kinds of awesome. Rather than cycling painters, which is hellishly boring and micro-managey, you get the same choices you would on a proper gun boat and only have to fiddle with the module when you need another option. Now, if we could just get them to script omnis I'll be ridiculously happy....

I don't think HAM's will be all that useful even with the buff.

You're still talking about ~30km range on a drake with 2 TEs. Because of the way missiles work that will effectively be 25km or so. Javelins will go to 45 or so, but with similar DPS to current HML drakes. In other words a HAM drake will do okay to good damage to 25km, and mediocre damage to 45 after a reload.

Essentially drakes and tengus will be removed from small gangs as a kiting option. I'd expect to see most smallish gangs switching to tier 3 battlecruisers or arty hurricanes. Since you don't need t2 guns for canes or tornados, and since drakes will present much less of a threat to cynabals and vagas, we'll probably be back to minmatar online.

Ok, so the missiles were better? Sounds pretty logical that they were balanced then, no?

What an ignorant and arrogant opinion. A few comments:
- Pulse lasers have one of the highest optimals in the game for close range weapons. You can generally expect that unbonused HPL will not hit to 30km even with Scorch. It is and always has been one of the strongest kiting weapons in the game due to fantastic damage projection. Why do you feel that 45km HAMs is too short range to kite with? That's outside of even Loki boosted point range.
- There's no reason you won't be able to use HML to kite.
- You need T2 for HML far less than you need it for Artillery/Beams/Rails. The inability to use T2 LR ammo is crippling on those platforms, but not for HML.
- Minmatar are getting raped by these balancing changes. When was the last time you saw a Rifter and thought "Oh look, a good frigate!". Even the Slasher is generally bad when compared to the other options out there.

There's nothing wrong with heavy assault missiles and I've used them personally versus after burning frigates, with a stasis webifier applied (they hurt). Seriously though. When it comes to applying damage on everything cruiser and above, you're doing full damage with heavy assault missiles. The purposed changes won't effect this if anything heavy assault missiles will become better.

The issue is that HAMs are getting nerfed too because of the proposed changes to Tracking Disruptors. A ship traveling 1100ms or so away from a HAM ship will already cut the effective range of HAMs by half. Turret ships deal with this kiting tactic by switching to Scorch/Barrage/Null. HAMs don't have this option. With TDs cutting HAM range further, HAMs will be rendered completely useless.

The issue is that HAMs are getting nerfed too because of the proposed changes to Tracking Disruptors. A ship traveling 1100ms or so away from a HAM ship will already cut the effective range of HAMs by half. Turret ships deal with this kiting tactic by switching to Scorch/Barrage/Null. HAMs don't have this option. With TDs cutting HAM range further, HAMs will be rendered completely useless.

How will HAMs get better when they're not touching HAMs but giving medium turrets a buff to their fitting requirements and introducing TDs that affect missiles? HAMs can only get worse than they currently are, and currently, they're really not very good. The velocity change proposal is only affecting Heavy Missiles, perhaps you got confused.

If a frig is letting itself get webbed then it's already failed at kiting and has nothing to do with the quality of HAMs. HAMs have a paper range of about 20km with faction missiles. But if you're chasing something that's burning away from you at 1100+ ms you lose half that range due to missile travel. It's very easy to kite a HAM fit unless it's on a bonused ship like a Cerberus. This is why HMLs are used over HAMs even for most under 20km engagements. So I feel if they want to nerf the HML so that it falls in line with other long range medium weaponry, they need to buff the HAM a little so that it steps up to be competitive in the close range department.

You're comparing things as if only medium guns exist in a vacuum. You could use HML or HAMS to kite but there will be lots of better options.

What will happen is that people will use short range guns on tier 3 battlecruisers, since they offer better damage projection and tracking on a more agile ship. Arty will still have the high alpha so packs of hurricanes could definitely work.

Nobody will use medium beams or rails. I mean seriously, who is going to think a beam harbinger with 270 dps, awful tracking and 600 volley is actually worth using.

And yeah, minmatar frigates are pretty poor these days.

What an ignorant and arrogant opinion.

I'll be really surprised if HAMs don't become one of the premier weapon platforms post HML nerf.

Uh, no.

However, tracking disruptors effecting missiles is a bad idea.

Unlike many in 0.0; low security space and faction warfare produce SUPERIOR frigate pilots. Faction warfare has become alot more difficult than I remember. Mainly because of wide spread proliferation of frigates using tracking disruptors (alot more compotent pilots to, but it could just be the gallente). Anyway. I've literary near stopped flying cruisers and battlecruisers altogether because every other frigate has a f*cking tracking disruptor.

These missile ships are an effective counter to that proliferation: Drake, Caracal Navy Issue, Osprey Navy Issue and the Caracal. "drone boats" are also effective, but yeah... I have come to realize how lame Tracking disruption is and I must say it's almost as lame as ECM.

Missiles shouldn't be effected by tracking disruptors and it would also compound the divergence of ECM and tracking disruption from the other forms of electronic warfare. I rather limit the application of electronic warfare modules like ECM, remote sensor Dampners and tracking disruptors. That way of thinking may hurt those modules effectiveness but, I believe it would increase the fun factor and limit the amount of complaining in this game. Leads to a happier player base which is good for CCP's wallet. basically don't give players more reasons to complain...

you'll be able to hit from 40kms for 450-550dps with javelin hams

So it seems i shouldn't have trained in missiles as my main weapon system. Wonder if I can get the skills refunded.

I think it's funny how the missile camp is basically divided between people who can only see the HML nerf and the rest of us who are lusting over a potential 30% explo rad TC. I don't think you properly understand how much better missiles are going to be. We have been arguing for this for literally years, and sacrificing OP HML is just not a big deal.

Missile are going to **** face until they nerf the **** out of them. They are going to be that overpowered. You just don't even know. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

-Liang

It will be far from useless. You get a little less range, which is well over due, and a little less dps. However, you can fit a targeting computer in the mids, sacrificing some tank for greatly improved damage application. Also keep in mind that the Drake will get a revamp along with every other BC in time, and I think it will all pan out very well.

I think it's funny how the missile camp is basically divided between people who can only see the HML nerf and the rest of us who are lusting over a potential 30% explo rad TC. I don't think you properly understand how much better missiles are going to be. We have been arguing for this for literally years, and sacrificing OP HML is just not a big deal.

Missile are going to **** face until they nerf the **** out of them. They are going to be that overpowered. You just don't even know. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

-Liang

What an ignorant and arrogant opinion. A few comments:
- Pulse lasers have one of the highest optimals in the game for close range weapons. You can generally expect that unbonused HPL will not hit to 30km even with Scorch. It is and always has been one of the strongest kiting weapons in the game due to fantastic damage projection. Why do you feel that 45km HAMs is too short range to kite with? That's outside of even Loki boosted point range.
- There's no reason you won't be able to use HML to kite.
- You need T2 for HML far less than you need it for Artillery/Beams/Rails. The inability to use T2 LR ammo is crippling on those platforms, but not for HML.
- Minmatar are getting raped by these balancing changes. When was the last time you saw a Rifter and thought "Oh look, a good frigate!". Even the Slasher is generally bad when compared to the other options out there.

-Liang

Not sure, we don't have numbers on how the mods will effect everything.

I have a Drake that slings missiles 110km, so obsolete, 80km doing 350 DPS us acceptable for a medium weapon system.

If you want to brawl with the canes and taller, HAM --------> again just like the rest of the BCs, no one size fits all Drake.

Ever fly a Cerb? Heavy missile dps is laughable and now 20% less....yeah.......

Dude.

Shut up!

I think it's funny how the missile camp is basically divided between people who can only see the HML nerf and the rest of us who are lusting over a potential 30% explo rad TC. I don't think you properly understand how much better missiles are going to be. We have been arguing for this for literally years, and sacrificing OP HML is just not a big deal.

Missile are going to **** face until they nerf the **** out of them. They are going to be that overpowered. You just don't even know. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

-Liang

20% dps less with all missiles, including t2.....

Ok, so the missiles were better? Sounds pretty logical that they were balanced then, no?

HMLs aren't the only missiles. If these changes go through then we are going to see some very interesting new doctrines.

The only thing I read from your post is a good argument for nerfing the base strength of TDs and that they should affect missiles in roder to level the playing field.

HMLs are the only missiles which are of use in Caldari combat ships above frig size right now, except Torps in a SB. Thats why nerfing them before buffing other stuff sucks. And they are only really competitive in just 2 ships!

But missiles are getting buffed at the same time. The ship penalties are being removed (Sig for Fury, Speed for Precision). All missiles will get a very considerable buff from the TE/TC change. ACs are only good because of tracking enhancers. When HAMs and Torps get velocity and explosion velocity bonuses from TEs & TCs, they'll be hugely improved.

Oh and Cruise might well become viable again. Dual-TC Ravens could be very interesting indeed. Lots of alpha (well, volley) and 63% better explosion velocity along with the removal of the ship penalties for T2 missiles... yeah that will change a lot of calculations.


You're making the classic EVE forum mistake of only looking at one aspect of a proposed change and ignoring all the others. Personally, I agree that a -20% DPS nerf for HMLs is too much. What I am saying is that missile weapons as a whole will be significantly improved. I hope that CCP dial back that -20% to no more than 10% or 12.5%, but even if they don't, then recovering HAMs, Torps and Cruise as viable PvP (and greatly improved PvE) weapons will be worth it.

This change ill be bad for pvp missile ships (HAM\Torps are still not ussable + big nerf for HML+ TDs)

BUT grat for PvE missile ships , TE\TC ill make torps great again . + now i can easily fit 50km HAM tengu with 1000+ dps and very good sigV\R . We must wait for numbers at TC\TEs ....

Ok, so are people gonna switch to assault missiles for their cruiser and battle cruisers?

Heavy missiles go faster, hit harder, T2 ammo ship penalties are getting removed, and all at the cost of a 30% reduction in flight time combined with tracking computers/enhancers becoming rDPS->eDPS conversion modules just as they are for guns.

Did I miss the nerf or are people just focusing on the range of heavy missiles going from around 80km to 60km to the exclusion of all else?

Edit: Please note that the "hit harder" was incorrect as I read "increase" and not "decrease" damage. However with the changes to tracking computers/enhancers whether or not they do the same effective DPS as they do now will be up for debate.

Yes? And where is the tank then? Harb has to use lowslots for tracking/dps/tank. Drake has enough mids for prop, tackle and a massive tank, and all lows are free for dps mods etc.

So Caldari pilots have to train battleships like everyone else to PvE.

Sorry for your loss I guess.

Yeah, range comes down a tad BUT the T2 ammo is getting fixed, so no more faction only, drake has to trade damage for range for tank like everything else.....moreso now that it has YEs and TCs to consider.

That medium neut is 200 grid, cane loses 225 grid, I have to look, but I'm pretty sure it'll be 425 and no neuts, or neuts and 220s.

It's more lake (-)15-20% range because of the revamp of the missile acceleration, so it's not that big of a deal.
And it is still looooong range. If you want more damage, fit HAMs and a Tracking Computer, and ur good to go.

HML's were simply brought into line with the other medium long range weapons. It simply no longer does BS damage at BS ranges.

Problem with current HM's is that they can do the same damage as close range guns even though they are technically the LR option, suggested changes sorts that nicely.

Tengu will nerfed regardless, too good at too many things at once. HAM Drake (aka. PvP Drake) gets a massive boost as does proposed Caracal.

Plus you get a lot more control over the performance of the missiles by way of TC/TE, you'll no longer have a maximum range dictated solely by skills .. in exchange your missiles become vulnerable to eWar.

In Short: Changes are geared towards the PvP side of things as it should be, PvE has and will always find the new black (remember cruise ravens .. how hard would you have laughed back then if someone told you people would seriously mission in HM BCs/Cruisers?)

What an ignorant and arrogant opinion. A few comments:
- Pulse lasers have one of the highest optimals in the game for close range weapons. You can generally expect that unbonused HPL will not hit to 30km even with Scorch. It is and always has been one of the strongest kiting weapons in the game due to fantastic damage projection. Why do you feel that 45km HAMs is too short range to kite with? That's outside of even Loki boosted point range.
- There's no reason you won't be able to use HML to kite.
- You need T2 for HML far less than you need it for Artillery/Beams/Rails. The inability to use T2 LR ammo is crippling on those platforms, but not for HML.
- Minmatar are getting raped by these balancing changes. When was the last time you saw a Rifter and thought "Oh look, a good frigate!". Even the Slasher is generally bad when compared to the other options out there.

-Liang

You're comparing things as if only medium guns exist in a vacuum. You could use HML or HAMS to kite but there will be lots of better options.

What will happen is that people will use short range guns on tier 3 battlecruisers, since they offer better damage projection and tracking on a more agile ship. Arty will still have the high alpha so packs of hurricanes could definitely work.

Nobody will use medium beams or rails. I mean seriously, who is going to think a beam harbinger with 270 dps, awful tracking and 600 volley is actually worth using.

And yeah, minmatar frigates are pretty poor these days.

There's nothing wrong with heavy assault missiles and I've used them personally versus after burning frigates, with a stasis webifier applied (they hurt). Seriously though. When it comes to applying damage on everything cruiser and above, you're doing full damage with heavy assault missiles. The purposed changes won't effect this if anything heavy assault missiles will become better.


However, tracking disruptors effecting missiles is a bad idea.


Unlike many in 0.0; low security space and faction warfare produce SUPERIOR frigate pilots. Faction warfare has become alot more difficult than I remember. Mainly because of wide spread proliferation of frigates using tracking disruptors (alot more compotent pilots to, but it could just be the gallente). Anyway. I've literary near stopped flying cruisers and battlecruisers altogether because every other frigate has a f*cking tracking disruptor.


These missile ships are an effective counter to that proliferation: Drake, Caracal Navy Issue, Osprey Navy Issue and the Caracal. "drone boats" are also effective, but yeah... I have come to realize how lame Tracking disruption is and I must say it's almost as lame as ECM.


Missiles shouldn't be effected by tracking disruptors and it would also compound the divergence of ECM and tracking disruption from the other forms of electronic warfare. I rather limit the application of electronic warfare modules like ECM, remote sensor Dampners and tracking disruptors. That way of thinking may hurt those modules effectiveness but, I believe it would increase the fun factor and limit the amount of complaining in this game. Leads to a happier player base which is good for CCP's wallet. basically don't give players more reasons to complain...

They have: Javelins. Since the ship penalty will be removed from them I'd say they are quite interesting now.

People said the same thing about Autocannons and Vagabonds. Turns out they were 100% right... Ohwai-----

It'll be just as true with missiles.

-Liang

I'll be really surprised if HAMs don't become one of the premier weapon platforms post HML nerf.

-Liang

The only thing I read from your post is a good argument for nerfing the base strength of TDs and that they should affect missiles in roder to level the playing field.

As for TDs why should they continue to be weak in that they can't to squat to missile boats? ECM can affect any ship and it's weapon system (even drones if they weren't released in time). Damps can affect any ship. Painters can affect any ship. The relative value of these ewars is of course not balanced since ecm is so much better since preventing a lock is better than reducing a lock range or slowing it down, or increasing the sig on a ship. So here we have Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar ewar all universally effective (of course the worth of that effect will depend on the situation). But Amarr ewar is absolutely worthless on a whole segment of ships as things are atm. That is not balance in any sense of the word.

Yes, TDs are overused and op in small ship fw fighting. Plenty of mid-slot blessed Caldari ships abusing that mechanic to neuter turret ships. Just don't turn those ******* back on me is not a good reason to oppose CCPs coming change. If they now worry the abusers so much they'd all better get on board with asking for the base module strength for turrets and missiles to be less than it presently is for turrets.

Then when the specialized ships get a bigger ship bonus to compensate it will make them as desireable as griffins and blackbirds etc. This should be done for damps and TPs as well. And it will be a buff to the ships specialized for them. This ironically will be to the benefit of ecm boats. They might not always be the automatic primaries anymore.

As for heavy missiles, they will be fine. Even with a nerf (at whatever level it ends up being, as percentages could change) they will be far from useless. But they will no longer be a weapon for all seasons. And on the flip side other underperforming and less utilized missile types may be getting slight buffs which will result in making them worth using.

All this is good for the game. Drakes and Tengus Online had to end sometime. If I was vindictive I'd love them to be as worthless and little used as Harbingers etc. have been and that that would last for the next 4 years. But that would not be good for the game.

Really where is this at? standard missiles? weee.. There is no proposed changes to hams and assault missile launchers are just faster firing standard launchers and already do low low dps.

All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Light Missiles
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Improve bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly

I'm still new to Battlecruisers and I've never really taken the time to delve too deeply into stats. Now, I fly a Drake, with an entirely T1 fit. I'm not yet set for T2 gear, and even if I was, I'm not financially in a position to get some, and probably won't be until I find a new player-corp to join. So my question is this: I run Level 3 PvE Missions to earn money with my Drake, and it's entirely T1 fit. With the coming changes to Missiles, what should I be doing to

a) keep up my DPS

b) Improve my DPS because my current Drake fit was absolute **** to begin with and I think I only do about 100 DPS.

Now instead of doing 862 DPS at 114km, you'll be doing 689 at 85 in a Tengu. Oh and the Drake is rumored to be getting dual DPS bonuses so...yeah. It most likely will still do the same DPS as it currently does, just at a slightly less range(Until you take into account TEs and TCs). Oh and not to mention the fact that Furies are getting a DPS boost.

I'm still new to Battlecruisers and I've never really taken the time to delve too deeply into stats. Now, I fly a Drake, with an entirely T1 fit. I'm not yet set for T2 gear, and even if I was, I'm not financially in a position to get some, and probably won't be until I find a new player-corp to join. So my question is this: I run Level 3 PvE Missions to earn money with my Drake, and it's entirely T1 fit. With the coming changes to Missiles, what should I be doing to

a) keep up my DPS

b) Improve my DPS because my current Drake fit was absolute **** to begin with and I think I only do about 100 DPS.