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G 0 D
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Posted - 2011.07.23 20:02:00 -
[1]
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
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Meryl SinGarda
Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2011.07.23 20:14:00 -
[2]
Why are you even allowed to post? Fly safe, Die hard |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.23 20:35:00 -
[3]
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
You haven't been playing for 3 expansions nub. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Duvida
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.23 21:37:00 -
[4]
To the OP: Citations please? Your opinion needs backup.
To Meryl, if he's allowed to post, you are too. If he isn't, it would be for the same reasons we'd disallow your postings.
To Cipher, you're right, the last 3 expansions HAVE added things, although... they could have been both better at the start and expanded on in the last while. But you're right overall on that one.
One thing that new players are going to find an issue with is that hardware burning issue. CCP's response has been to post a shopping list. A new player is going to realize that they are now required to spend a lot more than the initial purchase and sub fee. That dollar/euro shock isn't small. And it probably doesn't really address the problems with the extra work that your machine seems to be doing with any CQ-related coding.
Learning... |
Jacob Stiller
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:02:00 -
[5]
Let's see, I came back less than a month before Incarna and haven't been scared off yet. Previous EVE experience was really only a 10 week stint in mining that actually did drive me away for 9 months due to the sheer boredom and lack of profit in mining. So you could at least consider me a newish player that at least hasn't been driven off by Incarna. Nor did I come onboard for Incarna either. Didn't know anything about it until maybe a week before it was deployed. My philosophy is to pretend that the NeX store does not exist. If CPP does not generate sufficient revenue from MT to justify the development costs, then they will eventually return to developing actual game content. Provided, of course, that they do not gamble so much that they go bankrupt first.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
Shouldn't you be playing Perpetuum?
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Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda Why are you even allowed to post?
Because he hasn't called anybody at CCP 'terrible'?
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda Why are you even allowed to post?
Because he hasn't called anybody at CCP 'terrible'?
Maybe he could just post a link to some inappropriate content like some other butthurt loser.
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Atedar Kerane
Silentium Mortalitas
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:42:00 -
[9]
Buy a monocle, I've heard they prevent you from crying
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Tautut
The Union Of The Snake
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
Shouldn't you be playing Perpetuum?
He spends all his time posting in these forums - that's clearly a measure of how good Perpetuum is.
If I had the choice between playing Perpetuum or wiping my backside with a cactus - I would be looking round for the tweezers pretty sharpish.
The Union of the Snake [SNAKE]
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Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:16:00 -
[11]
incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
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Sieges
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:43:00 -
[12]
I have not seen a population drop. But I also have not seen an influx of new players.
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Tautut
The Union Of The Snake
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kuronaga incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
You've never gotten lost in the moment then? Never had an experience in this game where you watched players from all around the world roast because of your actions? Heart banging in your chest as the choices you make cause a cascade that ends in the destruction of a fleet or annihilation of an alliance offensive ... A moment perhaps you were proud of and wanted to share with the community?
That's the game I love. If I had the media captured, I'd be sharing it on that site without hesitation.
It's not like they're asking us to LARP for crying out load. Perhaps at the next fan fest.
The Union of the Snake [SNAKE]
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Samuel Wess
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:46:00 -
[14]
I tried to quit eve after 4 years with this patch screwing the game but it seems that features removed from game (hangar view) does not entitle me to a reimbursment for the rest of the year that i payed, and that sucks! First time getting scammed in eve me |
Denise Le'Slut
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kuronaga I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
yeah i shivered too. the guy in the video should be given some epic level 80 battle axe and a tigerpony to ride on, instead of making me feel like a nerdy teenager in just another mmo. i hate this trailer so much. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
I'm actually more perplexed as to how someone who has since weeks ago implicitly stated he's leaving Eve, and has been advertising on how awesome and so much better Perpetuum is STILL continues to post and STILL is very much active and involved in Eve mediums.
I mean, if Eve has been such a dissapointment and your gaming interests lay elsewhere and you're leaving Eve shouldn't you be posting less on these forums?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:18:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kuronaga on 24/07/2011 00:19:15
Originally by: Tautut
Originally by: Kuronaga incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
You've never gotten lost in the moment then? Never had an experience in this game where you watched players from all around the world roast because of your actions? Heart banging in your chest as the choices you make cause a cascade that ends in the destruction of a fleet or annihilation of an alliance offensive ... A moment perhaps you were proud of and wanted to share with the community?
That's the game I love. If I had the media captured, I'd be sharing it on that site without hesitation.
It's not like they're asking us to LARP for crying out load. Perhaps at the next fan fest.
Have you ever danced like an idiot alone in your room at 3:00 AM?
Maybe, maybe not.
Do you make it a point to brag to all your friends about it?
No.
And you sure as hell wouldn't do that if you were trying to sell them something.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
Is there anyplace to find info on the weekly concurrent users average for like the last two years?
my forum/google fu sucks tonight. Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. |
Jacob Stiller
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
So the net change from May 15 till July 23 is about -1000 or -2.2%. We are about -5000, or -9.3%, from the high on June 25. So basically the surge of activity surrounding Incarna's launch lasted 1.5 weeks post launch before returning to around prelaunch levels. Enough to say that Incarna is a failed expansion, but far from demonstrating that "Eve is dying."
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Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.24 01:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jacob Stiller
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
So the net change from May 15 till July 23 is about -1000 or -2.2%. We are about -5000, or -9.3%, from the high on June 25. So basically the surge of activity surrounding Incarna's launch lasted 1.5 weeks post launch before returning to around prelaunch levels. Enough to say that Incarna is a failed expansion, but far from demonstrating that "Eve is dying."
For eve to die it has to drop below the 5k that were playing when i first started.
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Iron Breaker
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Posted - 2011.07.24 03:05:00 -
[22]
I do not think they want to attract new players. Every time they manage to get up to around 55k players on at once the server crashes. It would likely cost to much to expand their hardware to handel more players.
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Jacob Stiller
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Posted - 2011.07.24 03:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Iron Breaker I do not think they want to attract new players. Every time they manage to get up to around 55k players on at once the server crashes. It would likely cost to much to expand their hardware to handel more players.
IB, I posted a link in your thread to a tanked hulk loadout I found. I think we all know what's eating you.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.07.24 05:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kuronaga incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
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Tautut
The Union Of The Snake
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Posted - 2011.07.24 06:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kuronaga Edited by: Kuronaga on 24/07/2011 00:19:15
Originally by: Tautut
Originally by: Kuronaga incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
You've never gotten lost in the moment then? Never had an experience in this game where you watched players from all around the world roast because of your actions? Heart banging in your chest as the choices you make cause a cascade that ends in the destruction of a fleet or annihilation of an alliance offensive ... A moment perhaps you were proud of and wanted to share with the community?
That's the game I love. If I had the media captured, I'd be sharing it on that site without hesitation.
It's not like they're asking us to LARP for crying out load. Perhaps at the next fan fest.
Have you ever danced like an idiot alone in your room at 3:00 AM?
Maybe, maybe not.
Do you make it a point to brag to all your friends about it?
No.
And you sure as hell wouldn't do that if you were trying to sell them something.
No but I was part of the fleet that took down the first dread in game. I was pure tackler and sacrificed my ship keep that lump pinned down long enough to pop. I loved that moment in game and would have shared it with anyone. I also did a nice covert ops job on Ushra Khaaaaaaaaaaaan a few years back when I was with the CVA. I didn't fire a shot but enjoyed watching their attack fleet melt before my eyes around a planet in Yulai because of the work I did to guide in the CVA.
These are minor achievements in this game but still moments that I cannot imagine getting anywhere else. There must be hundreds of stories waiting to be told. Are you saying you have none that you would want to share with your fellow Eve gamers or people interested in the game?
Not sure I understand your point about dancing at 3am. If I could dance, maybe I would Facebook it.
The Union of the Snake [SNAKE]
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Ku Feym
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Posted - 2011.07.24 06:13:00 -
[26]
You're right about the expansions not bringing more subscriptions. CCP even admitted as much in one of those press releases/dev blogs I recall.
That's the reason they need MT. Their game is going the way of all the other failed MMOs that have to flip over to a free to play model. They keep rolling the dice on each new patch and either add stuff only the hardcore vets would care for or they **** everyone off completely with unwelcomed content.
Or better yet, sell EVE to Sony and focus on WoD/DUST.
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Valentina Valentia
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.24 06:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
I wouldn't worry, DUST and WoD will surely keep CCPs numbers up, or it's just a "summer-slump", or some other made-up statements of other persons in denial... Just play EVE, enjoy it for the epicness it is and save our bucks for the next two epic game releases. Honestly, what are you worried about? according to the vocal majority, nothing is wrong and everything is fine *keep using R-12, and CCFs in aerosol*... EVERYTHING IS FINE, really!
I DON'T CARE IF THAT "DOOR" EVER GOES ANYWHERE - and raise prices on NeX, bleed the foppish idiots dry!
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G 0 D
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Posted - 2011.07.24 09:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
Good link, thanks for adding it to this thread.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: G 0 D
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
Good link, thanks for adding it to this thread.
That link proves nothing.
What must be looked at is inter-annual change rate, and do it for at least 3 months. If the numbers for July/August/September 2011 are clearly below the same months in 2010 and 2009, then there may be an issue beyond botters being banned.
All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future. If we get the other CQs and they still got the same lighting issues as the Minmatar one, I sure will worry for EVE's future...
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Devious Relation
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda Why are you even allowed to post?
Because he is god, god can do wtf he wants :)
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:23:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
Is there anyplace to find info on the weekly concurrent users average for like the last two years?
my forum/google fu sucks tonight.
Here you go - you'll have to ask them how they average the All-Time/Year/Month graphs though.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future. If we get the other CQs and they still got the same lighting issues as the Minmatar one, I sure will worry for EVE's future...
CCP at the very least have made a cataclysmic marketing decision. Years of hype around Incarna and walking in stations has been blown away by the decision to release walking around in one room under the name Incarna. They will not get the hype back, even when they do add content that does something useful. They should have released the last update with a "Guys this ISN'T an expansion" note.
Meanwhile, the lack of attention to gameplay will result in a slow atrophy in player numbers. Essentially skipping one release won't hurt too much but if they neglect spaceships for too long, eventually people who like spaceships will move on.
PS How tall is everyone going to be in incarna?
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Othran
Here you go - you'll have to ask them how they average the All-Time/Year/Month graphs though.
It looks like numbers of active users are from apocrypha expansion , EVE is going downhill , good job CCP.
We warned you.
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Simplus Massive
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:35:00 -
[34]
Some engaging metrics, analysis & discussion here as well: Jester's Trek @ 2011-07-20 - Not all curves are pretty ------------------------------------------ simplus.rjctd.com ★ zaisen.rjctd.com |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Darth Helmat
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future. If we get the other CQs and they still got the same lighting issues as the Minmatar one, I sure will worry for EVE's future...
CCP at the very least have made a cataclysmic marketing decision. Years of hype around Incarna and walking in stations has been blown away by the decision to release walking around in one room under the name Incarna. They will not get the hype back, even when they do add content that does something useful. They should have released the last update with a "Guys this ISN'T an expansion" note.
Meanwhile, the lack of attention to gameplay will result in a slow atrophy in player numbers. Essentially skipping one release won't hurt too much but if they neglect spaceships for too long, eventually people who like spaceships will move on.
PS How tall is everyone going to be in incarna?
Yes, the whole "Incarna" name looks burned out. Could have called it another way, then wait to use the name until it was the "real" Incarna -or at least it worked correctly. This game has been lacking excellence for a long while.
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Kamilia StarGazer
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Posted - 2011.07.24 11:03:00 -
[36]
TLDR Fps and Space sim are not what ccp knows and there have been mistakes made in the past and most notably recently.
It may never be what people wanted it to be.Ccp was/is reaching for a new player base both with dust and Incarna.
The issue is they are reaching at two player bases they can not attain because this is not what they know.
Fps games are at most a 6month boon then you have to come out with a new one or something fancy or you get pushed under the bus by Cod and Battlefield.They spent too much money on dust and it may only break even if at all make profit it is unclear at this time if its going to do well or not.
Dolls in space honestly who knows who they wanted with this idea? They state they want this to be a sci-fi sim but is this what the eve player base wants? Some say no some say yes I don't have the numbers so I cant say what the majority wants.
All I will say is i am not buying dust and i have disabled CQ due to my computer not handling it alot of people will use it and will like it.
They made a lot of mistakes this year and last year lets hope they learn to stick with what they know we like blowing up space ships.
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 11:20:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 11:23:08 I recently received an e mail offer for 5 days free gametime. Excited to see the whole WiS/Incarna stuff I log in.
After 5 minutes in 'the room' it became clear that there is no gameplay, it is badly optimised and disable it.
2 minutes later I check out the NEX store and find the hilariously overpriced items that nobody else can even see. I will never pay cash for this stuff so NEX is pretty much useless for me.
5 minutes later I am in space and encounter bugs with the Overview and UI.
I log off and decide to check out the Eve forums. After 40 minutes of reading nothing but complaints and various links to other gaming web sites that are in agreement with the players.
Then I get to the leaked CCP e mail and internal document.
I decide not to renew.
Edit: It also took me 3 attempts to post this. |
Kamilia StarGazer
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Posted - 2011.07.24 11:31:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kamilia StarGazer on 24/07/2011 11:31:54 Oh my in my monologue i forgot to cover MT how daft of me XD
TLDR Nex is a joke micro does not mean macro and ccp got confused that we were upset.No clue how they thought it was a good idea?
as for the nex they have their reasons for it but it will end up only being used by rich lazy players that want show off their cash and that's what ccp was aiming for weather they say it or not.
I will probably never buy anything from it unless its something that is actually priced for what it is an internet ware these are supposed to be Micro Transactions they ended up being Macro.
We did not expect the prices to be high and they said little to nothing about MT before they put it in and certainly did not let us know it was going be a not so funny joke.
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Ehdward
Caldari Nex Exercitus Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 12:27:00 -
[39]
Another G O D-awful thread.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.24 12:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kamilia StarGazer
as for the nex they have their reasons for it but it will end up only being used by rich lazy players that want show off their cash and that's what ccp was aiming for weather they say it or not.
So what part of the VANITY items available in the NOBLE exchange led you to believe they'd be cheap? Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go. I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ku Feym You're right about the expansions not bringing more subscriptions. CCP even admitted as much in one of those press releases/dev blogs I recall.
That's the reason they need MT. Their game is going the way of all the other failed MMOs that have to flip over to a free to play model. They keep rolling the dice on each new patch and either add stuff only the hardcore vets would care for or they **** everyone off completely with unwelcomed content.
Or better yet, sell EVE to Sony and focus on WoD/DUST.
Wrong.
Also someone mentioned EVE wont die unless they drop below 5k, thats also wrong.
EVE-Online alone needs 75k subscribers to turn a profit, thats what CCP mentioned. But it was never about EVE-Online, all the crap we see now is because CCP wanted an explosive profit on the market, so the current customers, who are the only customers atm, need to be milked hard to finance their 2 other games, which seem to be behind development targets and cause financial liability.
Expect EVE to suck for awhile, I hope they realize that PLEX and MT deal serious dmg to the ingame market and economic rivalary, which is the driving force in this game, in the long run.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:14:00 -
[42]
Wow, it's almost as if new features do not sell as well as polished content.
They went the route of short term gains, they got their short term gains.
SHORT
TERM
It should be no surprise that long term subscriptions and activity dithers.
What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:28:00 -
[44]
Purely from a marketing perspective, the videos they have released over the last few years have not increased subscribers to the levels that they should have done.
Although the videos they have produced are of very high quality technically and visually, they have been targeting the wrong people and as a result, the new subscriber sign up rate is not anywhere near where it needs or deserves to be after this amount of time.
IF they targeted new players for their expansion videos more in terms of content and appeal, they would get more subscribers - instead we get videos of end-game content with heavy amounts of Fleet warfare and massive conflict.
Most new players will have 14 days to figure out if they want to pay money for this game, and to promote this CCP videos show Titan's and 1,000 player battles?
Potential new players are more interested in solo-play - once they become a paying customer, that's when they will become more interested in multi-player/end content. As boring as it might be for us, new players need to see more PvE paths in promotional videos - otherwise they'll be scared off.
I think the marketing of EVE has had a personality disorder and seems to think they are making movies instead of promotional videos for a computer game. Back to marketing school - or they should outsource the entire department.
AK
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Kamilia StarGazer
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Important Person
So what part of the VANITY items available in the NOBLE exchange led you to believe they'd be cheap? Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go. I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.
Never believed they would be cheap just didn't think they would be as high as they were and with the little amount of talk about them from the devs really hurt it.
as i said it was just going to be a show of money and that is all they where aiming for.
should have rephrased it to be Vanity Only items is what they aimed for and what they delivered.
All in all the MT is what you expect from a company wanting to go with the mainstream idea to the extreme
as well they should split the plex from aur completely imho make a interstellar kredit card to turn in for aur not a plex.
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Important Person [ Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go.
I have to disagree. They are far from cheap and the gaming press said the same thing.
Originally by: Important Person I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.
That's another problem. New players don't have that sort of Isk and are therefore excluded.
How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve? |
Kamilia StarGazer
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:02:00 -
[47]
They won't and more then likely lost eve more players then it may ever have gained for it.
It was not a well thought out plan in any case it was not executed well and most of all will only bring marginal income if the prices where reasonable all around the board they would bring in loads of money from it but they won't and that is on them
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Important Person on 24/07/2011 14:07:43
Originally by: Booby Trap
I have to disagree. They are far from cheap and the gaming press said the same thing.
How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?
The gaming press ran around crying OMG $70 MONOCLE LOL without mentioning that it could be bought for in-game currency and that many, many players have billions of isk to do just that. Internet journalism at its finest.
Whoever said the MT items were designed for new players?
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:26:07
Originally by: Important Person Edited by: Important Person on 24/07/2011 14:07:43
Originally by: Booby Trap
I have to disagree. They are far from cheap and the gaming press said the same thing.
How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?
Originally by: Important Person The gaming press ran around crying OMG $70 MONOCLE LOL .
Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.
Originally by: Important Person Whoever said the MT items were designed for new players?
MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items. Your counter to that was that some people have billions of isk so it doesn't matter if they are overpriced.
I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal. I thought it was relevant because the title of the thread is : INCARNA: NO NEW PLAYERS
Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:34:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:35:09
Originally by: Important Person How about a $2000 spectral tiger for WoW?
What the trading card that sold on E Bay after previouly been given away free by blizzard? That's a poor comparison.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/18/world-of-warcrafts-spectral-tiger-sells-for-2000/ |
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Booby Trap
Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.
Really? Please show me where I can pay $70 for a monocle. Must be on eve's website. Nope.
Quote:
MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items.
Really? I thought they were quite obviously aimed at people who want to spend billions of isk on items. You know being VANITY items available from the NOBLE exchange. I don't know too many poor nobles, how bout you?
Quote:
I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal.
Maybe we could give all new players a free monocle, battleship and a billion isk. That would surely enrich the new player experience. I'm sure there are lots of new players who log in for the first time on their trial account and say, gosh I can't afford to buy that MT item, this game isn't for me, I didn't sign up to play spaceships.
Quote:
Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.
I think that Incarna will certainly attract new players. I don't believe MT should have any bearing on attracting and retaining new players.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Booby Trap Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:35:09
Originally by: Important Person How about a $2000 spectral tiger for WoW?
What the trading card that sold on E Bay after previouly been given away free by blizzard? That's a poor comparison.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/18/world-of-warcrafts-spectral-tiger-sells-for-2000/
http://www.wowtcgloot.com/
Look at how much real life money I can spend on cosmetic items in WoW. Shame I can't use gold to buy them. Nice marketing ploy though, we don't sell MT items in-game, only a selection of pets through the blizzard shop, but checkout our card game.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kuronaga incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.
I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?
Good job with that.
Why not, it seems to be the type this game attracts. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.07.24 15:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Wow, it's almost as if new features do not sell as well as polished content.
They went the route of short term gains, they got their short term gains.
SHORT
TERM
It should be no surprise that long term subscriptions and activity dithers.
What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."
Errrr, it would seem to be quite the opposite actually.
Instead of putting tons of shiny bling in this expansion, they instead focused on putting in the bare bones framework for a new aspect of game play that won't really kick off until the future multiplayer functionality exists. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.24 15:12:00 -
[55]
Quote: All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future...
If CCP does not release an 'expansion' every 6 months they will be attacked on the forums for not doing so. If CCP releases an expansion every 6 months that does not have as much content as the most content intensive expansion to date, they will be told there is not enough content. No matter what they do someone will grief them. Its their job to make the business decisions that will retain as many customers as possible while bringing in as many customers as possible.
What path would you chose if it were you making the decisions? . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Yvette Online
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Posted - 2011.07.24 15:18:00 -
[56]
The OP suggests that incarna as we see it today is intended to be the completed product which will attract players. This is clearly not the case. Incarna's most defining feature is likely the captain's quarters, which is little more than a test environment for walking in stations (proper) as well as interaction between EVE and DUST players. As neither of the final goals of the Incarna test environment have been released yet, I'd hardly say it's fair to criticize CCP for the lack of new accounts.
That's a lot like a retail store deciding to open a second location, and the investors demanding to see a return on their investment before the new store is even open. I agree with the OP that this had better pay off, but we were applauding CCP for slowing their expansions and "doing things right" a few months ago. Just be patient.
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Yvette Online Just be patient.
I attended FF '07.
What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.
And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.
In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.
We got 1 room that broke the game.
Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.
I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.
AK
EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials vid - AT-9 EVE Cemetery Promo |
Yvette Online
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:37:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Yvette Online on 24/07/2011 17:41:01 Edited by: Yvette Online on 24/07/2011 17:38:26
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Yvette Online Just be patient.
I attended FF '07.
What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.
And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.
In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.
We got 1 room that broke the game.
Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.
I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.
AK
What I'm taking away from what you're saying is that they've taken to long in development, which I agree with entirely. It's obvious that things have been mishandled and yes, walking in stations/ambulation/whatever has been way too long coming. However, I don't see the current "test" environment of incarna as an indictment of the entire project as a whole, especially measured by new subscribers, something it couldn't possibly achieve until it is in some semblance of being released as intended.
If you want to make the argument that it's taken way too long, I'm with you. But there's no way that this expansion in its current form was intended to be the big draw for new players. That is intended to come later, with walking in stations and the integration of DUST. You and the OP are making two very different points.
edit: speeling
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Booby Trap
Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.
Really? Please show me where I can pay $70 for a monocle. Must be on eve's website. Nope.
Quote:
MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items.
Really? I thought they were quite obviously aimed at people who want to spend billions of isk on items. You know being VANITY items available from the NOBLE exchange. I don't know too many poor nobles, how bout you?
Quote:
I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal.
Maybe we could give all new players a free monocle, battleship and a billion isk. That would surely enrich the new player experience. I'm sure there are lots of new players who log in for the first time on their trial account and say, gosh I can't afford to buy that MT item, this game isn't for me, I didn't sign up to play spaceships.
Quote:
Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.
I think that Incarna will certainly attract new players. I don't believe MT should have any bearing on attracting and retaining new players.
1- It's called MT. You do know what the M stands for right? 2- You are correct, unless you have billions of Isk then the NEX items are not aimed at new players. If they are not aimed at new players then their target is people who want to spend rl cash for an overpriced itwm or older players. Thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN. 3- As the thread title is NO NEW PLAYERS then I think it is fair to comment that these items are beyond their reach. I never said new players should get BS or billions of Isk. 4- Yes, you are correct. An MT shop will not attract new players to the game. So why are you intent on bringing up MT all the time? 5- That's where we disagree. Incarna , as it stands, does nothing
I don't care about CCP, Eve or the MT shop because I'm not reactivating my account. The reason I'm not re activating is because Incarna, as an expansion, offers nothing new.
ps are you yet another Zinfadel alt because you've only been in game a few weeks and you seem to be an expert on MT and Incarna
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Meridian Siri
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:43:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Simplus Massive Some engaging metrics, analysis & discussion here as well: Jester's Trek @ 2011-07-20 - Not all curves are pretty
I think that this data puts to rest the "there's no evidence that logins are down" claims. They are; period. In fact, the two expansions have lost on account activity from expansion to expansion.
Started playing shortly before Apocrypha (which I thought was an amazing expansion) and have been fairly disappointing with each expansion since. I think that the dataset used for the analysis should be pretty fun to tear into, and seems more fun than logging in atm.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:49:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda Why are you even allowed to post?
Also, why does G 0 D look like a mix of me and SATAN? -
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Ranger 1
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:50:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Booby Trap
Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.
Really? Please show me where I can pay $70 for a monocle. Must be on eve's website. Nope.
Quote:
MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items.
Really? I thought they were quite obviously aimed at people who want to spend billions of isk on items. You know being VANITY items available from the NOBLE exchange. I don't know too many poor nobles, how bout you?
Quote:
I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal.
Maybe we could give all new players a free monocle, battleship and a billion isk. That would surely enrich the new player experience. I'm sure there are lots of new players who log in for the first time on their trial account and say, gosh I can't afford to buy that MT item, this game isn't for me, I didn't sign up to play spaceships.
Quote:
Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.
I think that Incarna will certainly attract new players. I don't believe MT should have any bearing on attracting and retaining new players.
1- It's called MT. You do know what the M stands for right? 2- You are correct, unless you have billions of Isk then the NEX items are not aimed at new players. If they are not aimed at new players then their target is people who want to spend rl cash for an overpriced itwm or older players. Thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN. 3- As the thread title is NO NEW PLAYERS then I think it is fair to comment that these items are beyond their reach. I never said new players should get BS or billions of Isk. 4- Yes, you are correct. An MT shop will not attract new players to the game. So why are you intent on bringing up MT all the time? 5- That's where we disagree. Incarna , as it stands, does nothing
I don't care about CCP, Eve or the MT shop because I'm not reactivating my account. The reason I'm not re activating is because Incarna, as an expansion, offers nothing new.
ps are you yet another Zinfadel alt because you've only been in game a few weeks and you seem to be an expert on MT and Incarna
I'm not a fan of the pricing structure either, and you have a point about the bulk of the items there not really being available to your average new player.
However, Incarna did put a door in place (pardon the pun) to a huge area of future new game play that WILL attract new players.
I can understand the first release being very limited. Something like this needs to be hammered on by several tens of thousands of players simultaneously to get it running smoothly enough to introduce multi player environments.
It is something of a risk to devote most of an expansion to back end stuff with little current in game functionality, and many people won't look beyond that to what is now able to come next. Then again, many of us will.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Important Person
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 18:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Important Person on 24/07/2011 18:05:21
Originally by: Booby Trap
1- It's called MT. You do know what the M stands for right? 2- You are correct, unless you have billions of Isk then the NEX items are not aimed at new players. If they are not aimed at new players then their target is people who want to spend rl cash for an overpriced itwm or older players. Thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN. 3- As the thread title is NO NEW PLAYERS then I think it is fair to comment that these items are beyond their reach. I never said new players should get BS or billions of Isk. 4- Yes, you are correct. An MT shop will not attract new players to the game. So why are you intent on bringing up MT all the time? 5- That's where we disagree. Incarna , as it stands, does nothing
1. I don't see how much more micro you can get than $0 for items.
2. Thanks for ammending that. Instead of your previous stance of "MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items." you've added that they're for older players. I have a friend who's been playing nearly two months and already has a couple of billion isk. He's looking forward to training for mauraders soon. Are these the older players you're referring to?
3. No you're merely implying that items priced out of reach of new players would affect their retention. FYI thread title is INCARNA - No new players for CCP.
4. I didn't, you did. "How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?"
5. Clever.
Quote:
I don't care about CCP, Eve or the MT shop because I'm not reactivating my account. The reason I'm not re activating is because Incarna, as an expansion, offers nothing new.
ps are you yet another Zinfadel alt because you've only been in game a few weeks and you seem to be an expert on MT and Incarna
How quaint, ccp alt comment.
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Coco Caine
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Posted - 2011.07.24 18:34:00 -
[64]
Server population != Subscriptions
I guess that a lot of accounts (like mine) are not much relevant for server population, because I only log on every week or so to switch skills. So even if my sub runs out on Aug 20, it won't hurt server pop, but CCPs wallet, it might.
It's a pity, because the game won't get better without money, but I can't bring myself to pay for such royal ******edness like the monocle and the CQ rat cage.
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Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.24 19:15:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Important Person blah blah, Mt is great, Incarna is great, blah blah, it will attract new players
1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.
2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.
3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.
4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.
It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong.
Show me on the graph where these new players are. |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:23:00 -
[66]
Originally by: AlleyKat
Most new players will have 14 days to figure out if they want to pay money for this game, and to promote this CCP videos show Titan's and 1,000 player battles?
Potential new players are more interested in solo-play - once they become a paying customer, that's when they will become more interested in multi-player/end content. As boring as it might be for us, new players need to see more PvE paths in promotional videos - otherwise they'll be scared off.
I think the marketing of EVE has had a personality disorder and seems to think they are making movies instead of promotional videos for a computer game. Back to marketing school - or they should outsource the entire department.
Please sir, never, ever, ever apply to work in CCP's marketing department. Thank you. ______________________ ~Gnosis~ |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:29:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ranger 1 I'm not a fan of the pricing structure either, and you have a point about the bulk of the items there not really being available to your average new player. However, Incarna did put a door in place (pardon the pun) to a huge area of future new game play that WILL attract new players. I can understand the first release being very limited...
Posts like these go to show just how low of a quality it takes to satisfy people these days.
Hicks was right when he started talking about Happy Consumers. It's sad. CCP could literally model a turd into your CQ and you'd praise it because of "man look at what they say they're going to do in two years it's gonna be great!".
They've been doing that for more than 5 years now. It's really about time you people wake up and see **** for what it is. Maybe then consumer reaction will push CCP into doing what the **** needs to be done.
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Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:30:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Wow, it's almost as if new features do not sell as well as polished content.
They went the route of short term gains, they got their short term gains.
SHORT
TERM
It should be no surprise that long term subscriptions and activity dithers.
What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."
Errrr, it would seem to be quite the opposite actually.
Instead of putting tons of shiny bling in this expansion, they instead focused on putting in the bare bones framework for a new aspect of game play that won't really kick off until the future multiplayer functionality exists.
Where in your brain does polished content = bare bones framework?
That's rhetorical btw. I'm sure we'd all be better off not knowing.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
G 0 D
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:03:00 -
[69]
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Yvette Online Just be patient.
I attended FF '07.
What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.
And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.
In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.
We got 1 room that broke the game.
Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.
I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.
AK
Good post. I agree with you. The WIS they showed in 2007 looked possible for them to pull off multiplayer because of the simple graphics.
For some reason they scrapped all the work they did to partner with NVIDIA to develop graphics for WIS made for hardware that wont be available for 3+ years (to render more than 1 character.)
So now we have technology in eve that won't even run on our machines to render more than 1 person without top of the line graphics cards that come out 3 years from now according to CCP and nvidia.
Don't expect to see friends in your CQ or to be able to really walk in stations anytime soon, or ever.
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Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:49:00 -
[70]
Originally by: G 0 D
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Yvette Online Just be patient.
I attended FF '07.
What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.
And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.
In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.
We got 1 room that broke the game.
Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.
I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.
AK
Good post. I agree with you. The WIS they showed in 2007 looked possible for them to pull off multiplayer because of the simple graphics.
For some reason they scrapped all the work they did to partner with NVIDIA to develop graphics for WIS made for hardware that wont be available for 3+ years (to render more than 1 character.)
So now we have technology in eve that won't even run on our machines to render more than 1 person without top of the line graphics cards that come out 3 years from now according to CCP and nvidia.
Don't expect to see friends in your CQ or to be able to really walk in stations anytime soon, or ever.
Or, you can have a top of the line card now, crank everything up and enjoy looking at putty/plastic fake face graphics with a distinct line separating the head & neck from the torso
also, sweet pod floating off a fire escape because that's complete immersion and so fitting with the lore they've built up to this point
really, bravo CCP. knocked it out of the park this time
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.24 23:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Coco Caine Server population != Subscriptions
Actually, the stats have shown that the two are pretty closely linked. Sure, they're not the same number, but the ratio has been fairly consistent over the years. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Mr Kidd
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 23:36:00 -
[72]
Originally by: AlleyKat Purely from a marketing perspective, the videos they have released over the last few years have not increased subscribers to the levels that they should have done.
Although the videos they have produced are of very high quality technically and visually, they have been targeting the wrong people and as a result, the new subscriber sign up rate is not anywhere near where it needs or deserves to be after this amount of time.
IF they targeted new players for their expansion videos more in terms of content and appeal, they would get more subscribers - instead we get videos of end-game content with heavy amounts of Fleet warfare and massive conflict.
Most new players will have 14 days to figure out if they want to pay money for this game, and to promote this CCP videos show Titan's and 1,000 player battles?
Potential new players are more interested in solo-play - once they become a paying customer, that's when they will become more interested in multi-player/end content. As boring as it might be for us, new players need to see more PvE paths in promotional videos - otherwise they'll be scared off.
I think the marketing of EVE has had a personality disorder and seems to think they are making movies instead of promotional videos for a computer game. Back to marketing school - or they should outsource the entire department.
AK
You're making some assumptions here that aren't entirely correct.
Whether a player is a solo player or social player has nothing to do with whether they are paying or not. It's more relevant to consider what brought them to the game? Was it an advertisement or word of mouth?
An advertisement is more likely to bring in a solo player purely because he/she(gurl) hasn't established any social connections in the game. It may take as little as a few days to months before that person is willing to drop the NPC corp for a player corp. These players are much more dependent on game content than others.
Word of mouth recruits already have social connections and are much more likely to join player corps. These players are much less dependent on game content and more reliant on player interactions.
It would be interesting to see statistics on what brings the majority of players to Eve: advertisement or word of mouth. For me, it was advertisement. I played less than a month and quit because the game was overly complex, under documented, two dimensional game play in the three dimensional world and the game content was/is sorely lacking. When I decided to try it again, it was the social interactions I was after. By that time I knew enough about the game to seek out other players to play with. It was the social aspect that hooked me because, to be frank, the solo aspect is crap. Unfortunately, as a new player without a clue to what Eve is about, I dare say that many new members leave feeling just as unfulfilled.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.25 03:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Booby Trap
1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.
2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.
3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.
4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.
1. Actually I said I don't believe Nex will have any bearing on new players whatsoever.
2. He could if he really wanted to. In fact if the only thing interesting in the game to him was a monocle he would buy it. I think new players are focused on other things in their first months of gameplay, and you've agreed with me.
3. Basically what I said. However your initial question was "How will overpriced MT items bring new players to eve?". I'm saying that it wont and isn't intended to.
4. So whats the problem? You're complaining that nex items are too expensive for new players then saying that I'm agreeing with you by saying that they're not designed for new players?
Quote:
It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong. Show me on the graph where these new players are.
You're daft. I never said MT would bring new players to eve. I said Incarna will bring new players to eve. You were the one insinuating that MT had some bearing on new players :"How will overpriced MT items bring new players to eve?".
Show me on the graph where these new players aren't. All I see on graphs is some of the tens of thousands of people who said they've unsubbed and left being replaced by someone.
I think I'm being trolled. Well done sir.
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Kin Netics
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Posted - 2011.07.25 04:12:00 -
[74]
@ the OP.
I am a new wow/rift/sc2/eq1-2/ffxi refuge and I friggin love this game!!! I canceled my 2 subs to wow 1 sub to rift and have 3 eve accounts. I found this game through steam.com and have been hooked ever since. In most mmo's during the summer activity is down, that's basically how I got in most of the good guilds I have been in. The sky is not falling its just warm and sunny out. relax bro and troll less.... its funny I see about 150 different names constantly on these forums. I highly doubt you all speak for the eve population.
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Vonbaron Ordo
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 04:33:00 -
[75]
Originally by: G 0 D
I find it interesting that the server population has actually gone down since the Incarna expansion.
Shouldn't the expansion and all these new marketing campaigns they have been doing (eve is real, advertising on every popular game website with bs news articles ect) be bringing more players to the game?
CCP have lost touch with their player base and the last 3 expansions have added nothing of value to the sandbox, which is no surprise that each of those expansions have failed to bring CCP more subscriptions.
I'm a new person.. So is my fiancee :)
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Booby Trap
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 11:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Important Person MT MT MT MT
There you go again, repeating yourself over and over and rambling on and on about how great MT and NEX is. It's crap, it has no bearing on NEW PLAYER retention and isn't for NEW PLAYERS. It won't have any bearing on NEW subscriptions and no returning player will subscribe because of it. We are both agreed.
So, Mr ignorant alt with lots of ill informed opinions but no balls. Why don't you learn to read a graph and show me where are the new players that you claim the awesome Incarna has brought to Eve? Or supply your own graph to prove me wrong.
You are 100 % wrong, Incarna has failed. For some reason you ignore facts that don't support your own deluded views and instead throw up ill conceived comparisons and hypothetical situations to explain why Incarna, MT and NEX are great and that Incarna was a sucess. You are impervious to logic or reasoning and know less than nothing. You are in the minority.
You won't even post with your main because your are scared to voice your lunatic opinions. That says a lot about what sort of player you are and what sort of person you are in real life. |
Important Person
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 12:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person MT MT MT MT
There you go again, repeating yourself over and over and rambling on and on about how great MT and NEX is. It's crap, it has no bearing on NEW PLAYER retention and isn't for NEW PLAYERS. It won't have any bearing on NEW subscriptions and no returning player will subscribe because of it. We are both agreed.
So, Mr ignorant alt with lots of ill informed opinions but no balls. Why don't you learn to read a graph and show me where are the new players that you claim the awesome Incarna has brought to Eve? Or supply your own graph to prove me wrong.
You are 100 % wrong, Incarna has failed. For some reason you ignore facts that don't support your own deluded views and instead throw up ill conceived comparisons and hypothetical situations to explain why Incarna, MT and NEX are great and that Incarna was a sucess. You are impervious to logic or reasoning and know less than nothing. You are in the minority.
You won't even post with your main because your are scared to voice your lunatic opinions. That says a lot about what sort of player you are and what sort of person you are in real life.
You're an idiot.
Quote: I recently received an e mail offer for 5 days free gametime. Excited to see the whole WiS/Incarna stuff I log in... 2 minutes later I check out the NEX store and find the hilariously overpriced items that nobody else can even see. I will never pay cash for this stuff so NEX is pretty much useless for me.
Quote: That's another problem. New players don't have that sort of Isk and are therefore excluded. How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?
Do the world a favor and go slip one of these on.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 13:08:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 13:09:34 Marketing-wise expansions in MMORPGs as "venerable" as eve online aren't released strictly to raise the population. They're mostly released to prevent the population from gradually bleeding due to boredom and to the release of new games.
Without new things to do (and in many cases even WITH new things to do) it's normal for a game that's getting fairly old to drop in population gradually.
Expansions do indeed bring in new players, that are balanced off by players leaving because they've finally grown bored beyond repair (which is normal in gaming) or because they want to try some other game that just got released (which is very normal in the MMORPG market).
EVE is now 8 years old. I'm sorry to burst a doomsayer's bubble, but for a 8 years old game retaining a stable population (and a quite abundant one at it, I know quite a lot of MMORPG developers that would give an arm and a leg to have the numbers EVE has) is quite a visible sign of success. Not even near to any signal of "game's death". |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 13:34:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Mr Kidd You're making some assumptions here that aren't entirely correct.
Whether a player is a solo player or social player has nothing to do with whether they are paying or not. It's more relevant to consider what brought them to the game? Was it an advertisement or word of mouth?
An advertisement is more likely to bring in a solo player purely because he/she(gurl) hasn't established any social connections in the game. It may take as little as a few days to months before that person is willing to drop the NPC corp for a player corp. These players are much more dependent on game content than others.
Word of mouth recruits already have social connections and are much more likely to join player corps. These players are much less dependent on game content and more reliant on player interactions.
It would be interesting to see statistics on what brings the majority of players to Eve: advertisement or word of mouth. For me, it was advertisement. I played less than a month and quit because the game was overly complex, under documented, two dimensional game play in the three dimensional world and the game content was/is sorely lacking. When I decided to try it again, it was the social interactions I was after. By that time I knew enough about the game to seek out other players to play with. It was the social aspect that hooked me because, to be frank, the solo aspect is crap. Unfortunately, as a new player without a clue to what Eve is about, I dare say that many new members leave feeling just as unfulfilled.
All very good points - but surely the whole point is to get people to hit the download button?
If you create a mental picture of complex content involving large-scale responsibility and commitment from anyone who dares to try the game, I'd argue that increases the barrier/threshold level for would-be pod pilots.
In addition to that, this game does have a very large PvE/industrial backbone to it that is rarely exploited in marketing. All of this is high quality content that we know people play (look at the map by populace) is ample evidence that people are attracted to. Yet, the marketing does not match this and instead goes for end-game/0.0 visuals with large scale conflict.
You can lead a horse to water, but maybe he'd like an carrot.
AK |
leavcraft
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 13:59:00 -
[80]
I have stayed with the game through two releases that did nothing but take away content from casual , high sec players, while it added new machine requirements and conflicts with servers and networks. All but two of my corpmates have left the game and wont be back. Perhaps some new players were attracted by the advertising for the exciting new content, but the backbone of methodical harvesters, researches,prodcution geeks, and PI players that support the economy but have no interest in large scale operations are just drifting away like empty wrecks in space. |
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 14:22:00 -
[81]
Because they have a new marketing strategy .... dont listen to what the player is saying. Instead look what the player is doing.
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Miss Rabblt
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 14:25:00 -
[82]
one more empty thread? |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 14:26:00 -
[83]
A promise for a brighter future can only be repeated so many times.... |
G 0 D
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:34:00 -
[84]
Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 16:33:57
Originally by: Kin Netics @ the OP.
I am a new wow/rift/sc2/eq1-2/ffxi refuge and I friggin love this game!!! I canceled my 2 subs to wow 1 sub to rift and have 3 eve accounts. I found this game through steam.com and have been hooked ever since. In most mmo's during the summer activity is down, that's basically how I got in most of the good guilds I have been in. The sky is not falling its just warm and sunny out. relax bro and troll less.... its funny I see about 150 different names constantly on these forums. I highly doubt you all speak for the eve population.
Your the first one to post your a new player with 73 replies before you. I expected posts like this much sooner.
1 or 2 new players won't replace the fact this game has an average of 5000 less players online at any given time since Incarna's release. See this link http://www.eveonline.com/externalLink.aspx?l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eeveger%2Ede%2Fpage%5Fserverstatus%2Ephp
Many of the players that left were veterans, some of which like myself have been playing for over 5 years.
The average retention time for a new player in Eve is 1 month. Even if CCP managed to bring in as many new players as ones that quit, they are still at a loss.
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Booby Trap
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:42:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Booby Trap Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 11:23:08 I recently received an e mail offer for 5 days free gametime. Excited to see the whole WiS/Incarna stuff I log in.
After 5 minutes in 'the room' it became clear that there is no gameplay, it is badly optimised and disable it.
2 minutes later I check out the NEX store and find the hilariously overpriced items that nobody else can even see. I will never pay cash for this stuff so NEX is pretty much useless for me.
5 minutes later I am in space and encounter bugs with the Overview and UI.
I log off and decide to check out the Eve forums. After 40 minutes of reading nothing but complaints and various links to other gaming web sites that are in agreement with the players.
Then I get to the leaked CCP e mail and internal document.
I decide not to renew.
Edit: It also took me 3 attempts to post this.
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Kin Netics
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:25:00 -
[86]
Your the first one to post your a new player with 73 replies before you. I expected posts like this much sooner.
1 or 2 new players won't replace the fact this game has an average of 5000 less players online at any given time since Incarna's release. See this link http://www.eveonline.com/externalLink.aspx?l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eeveger%2Ede%2Fpage%5Fserverstatus%2Ephp
Many of the players that left were veterans, some of which like myself have been playing for over 5 years.
The average retention time for a new player in Eve is 1 month. Even if CCP managed to bring in as many new players as ones that quit, they are still at a loss.
That graph has no depth to it. It is not backing up your argument nor did you post your sources. You are not addressing the obvious "It's summer". I go for days without logging on and I intend on keeping my subs up.
Just so you know constantly posting bad **** about this game will turn new players away. I have the mmo experience to know not to listen to the hype luckily. Other new players, I am sure, don't. This overreacting on these forums will turn new players away. I have seen it on other games and I can see it starting here. If you want to kill your game then keep this up. TBH IDC all that much I do not have a ton of time invested here and can move on without losing much, but you are on a path of self-destruction. |
G 0 D
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kin Netics
Just so you know constantly posting bad **** about this game will turn new players away. I have the mmo experience to know not to listen to the hype luckily. Other new players, I am sure, don't. This overreacting on these forums will turn new players away. I have seen it on other games and I can see it starting here. If you want to kill your game then keep this up. TBH IDC all that much I do not have a ton of time invested here and can move on without losing much, but you are on a path of self-destruction.
I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
I want eve to be what it was once about: spaceships in an open universe sandbox.
CCP have blatantly abandoned eve for the last 3 expansions to develop WOD, DUST 514, and a half baked social networking site for eve.
If players don't unsub, then CCP will continue on their own "path of self-destruction."
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:03:00 -
[88]
Quote: I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.
I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".
Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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G 0 D
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:08:00 -
[89]
Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 18:09:02
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote: I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.
I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".
Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.
Funny, a response like that is what I would expect from someone in grade school.
You need to question your own reading comprehension.
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Kin Netics
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.
This, by far, is the smartest thing I have read on these forums.
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Kin Netics
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Posted - 2011.07.25 18:23:00 -
[91]
@ the OP
ITS FREAKING SUMMER BRO!!!!!! I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY EVE AND GO JUMP IN A POOL CYA!!!!!!!!!
ps my sub isn't canceled I'm just enjoying the sun
pss you should too :)
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Creegz Brae
Gallente Megapol OUTER SPACE ASSHOLES
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:33:00 -
[92]
A lot of people vie for the simplicity of other MMO's hence why EVE isn't as popular. They jump in because it looks good, and has a lot of cool stuff, but when they have trouble with the learning curve, then most people drop it because there's a lot of information and reading involved in understanding the game. This game caters to a more specific group of players. The ones who don't mind running numbers and reading up on what works with what and why. __________________________________ Your blood will blanket the earth, I am the shot heard 'round the world. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:41:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 25/07/2011 19:41:56
Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 18:09:02
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote: I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.
I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".
Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.
Funny, a response like that is what I would expect from someone in grade school.
You need to question your own reading comprehension.
I told you before and I'll say it again, if you show me where
Quote: I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
is stated by CCP I would contract you a PLEX. You can't. Have a nice day. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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G 0 D
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:15:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 25/07/2011 19:41:56
Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 18:09:02
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote: I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.
I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".
Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.
Funny, a response like that is what I would expect from someone in grade school.
You need to question your own reading comprehension.
I told you before and I'll say it again, if you show me where
Quote: I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.
is stated by CCP I would contract you a PLEX. You can't. Have a nice day.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/
Look at the fifth paragraph of the email, the one starting with "Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback..."
I will not post the email here because I do not want to get banned again.
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:56:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Hilmar Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.
Like it or not the man has a point...
First of all CCP has a lot more experience with marketing and developing their product then you will probably ever have, it would be reasonable to assume they have a better understand what is the best general strategy for eve, even if that mean making the not so popular choices.
You don't like CQ/WiS or the NeX store... CCP is not 5 programmers without real jobs developing eve in their free time, with nothing better to do then fulfilling your every wish. At the end of the day CCP is a company, and the need to make money and make sure they have a profitable product.
And stop the whining about CCP using "eve money" to fund WoD and dust, it would be stupid to not to invest what profit they make of eve in other projects. Throwing all your money in one project does not mean that you will see a proportional increase in value and quality, using the profit to invest in other project will in the long run help to make eve more financial secure, and opens the possibility of using profits from those projects to fund new development in eve.
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Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:12:00 -
[96]
Server population may have gone down (it hasn't really though), but there's plenty of new players in the mix now.
OP is a terrible troll.
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
Sobaan Tuan
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:18:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person blah blah, Mt is great, Incarna is great, blah blah, it will attract new players
1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.
2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.
3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.
4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.
It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong.
Show me on the graph where these new players are.
you're blatantly wrong and ignorant
|
Booby Trap
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:50:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sobaan Tuan
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person blah blah, Mt is great, Incarna is great, blah blah, it will attract new players
1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.
2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.
3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.
4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.
It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong.
Show me on the graph where these new players are.
you're blatantly wrong and ignorant
Thanks for the feedback. I'm interested in the minority view that 'Incarna was a sucessful expansion'. The opinions of experts with vast experience like yourself are valid to me. Could you please elaborate on what parts of my post which, in your well informed opinion, are wrong and ignorant? |
Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:59:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 22:03:01
Originally by: Booby Trap
Show me on the graph where these new players are.
I'll show you. You see that part in which population is rather stable, on a 8 years old game?
That means that people leave (like in all older games), and new players come in to replace them. There aren't many other MMORPGs out there that manage that at the same age EVE has.
Bringing in new players doesn't necessarily equate to increasing overall population.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:59:00 -
[100]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:02:45
Originally by: dexington First of all CCP has a lot more experience with marketing and developing their product then you will probably ever have, it would be reasonable to assume they have a better understand what is the best general strategy for eve, even if that mean making the not so popular choices.
You don't like CQ/WiS or the NeX store... CCP is not 5 programmers without real jobs developing eve in their free time, with nothing better to do then fulfilling your every wish. At the end of the day CCP is a company, and the need to make money and make sure they have a profitable product.
And stop the whining about CCP using "eve money" to fund WoD and dust, it would be stupid to not to invest what profit they make of eve in other projects. Throwing all your money in one project does not mean that you will see a proportional increase in value and quality, using the profit to invest in other project will in the long run help to make eve more financial secure, and opens the possibility of using profits from those projects to fund new development in eve.
You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all.
In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.
You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.
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|
Terminator 2
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:02:00 -
[101]
It is really sad how things are going down with EVE...
Since the introduction of NEX and Aurum many people i know quit the game. Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.
It is mainly the bad communication and ignorance that we are facing. People feel CCP should have given a proper apology. Since that time passed the population of EVE seems to be on its way out...
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:07:00 -
[102]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all. In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.
You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.
Improvement is subjective. incarna for sure improved the game for those that felt that a little portrait ignored in the corner of a screen was too impersonal for an hedonistic experience like all MMORPG are. I'm one of those, in fact.
To many people, in MMORPG, connection with their character and immersion are important factors. Incarna improves both.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:10:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Terminator 2 It is really sad how things are going down with EVE...
Since the introduction of NEX and Aurum many people i know quit the game. Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.
It is mainly the bad communication and ignorance that we are facing. People feel CCP should have given a proper apology. Since that time passed the population of EVE seems to be on its way out...
No no no.
You people need to get the underlying truth here.
People might say they're leaving for lack of comms or whatever. However, all these things wouldn't matter jack**** if the gameplay would make up for it. The problem is: it doesn't. And that is because CCP are pumping too much money into whatever shenanigans their management thinks is the next big thing and not enough money into making the core product as good as it can be.
This is why WoW, SC2, etc are making so much money. Blizzard understood what gamers want: Great games.
Players are leaving because Eve's gameplay isn't being improved at the pace and with the professionalism it needs to be.
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Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:13:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Terminator 2
Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.
It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:16:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.
Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
baltec1
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:21:00 -
[106]
Welcome to the yearly summer slowdown.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:26:00 -
[107]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.
Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.
Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.
Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:32:00 -
[108]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.
Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.
Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.
Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.
1: Starcraft = Not a MMORPG. Comparing apples to oranges = bad. 2: Starcraft is indeed not subscription based. That means that people will be LESS likely to leave because they're also playing newer games. Costs them nothing to come back and play after a while. This argument of yours actually works against you. 3: Starcraft is ultimately an exception in the gaming market. The fact that EVE doesn't beat Starcraft doesn't make it an unsuccessful game.
People leave MMORPGs all the time. It's not a matter of sucking. It's simply a matter that new MMORPGs are released all the time.
The fact that despite this EVE population remains rather stable is an undeniable proof that new players are coming in. Not many ways to spin this.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:33:00 -
[109]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all.
In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.
You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.
I think CQ and WiS when it's ready are big improvements, but that is very much personal taste. The winter expansion that should be focused on 0.0, is not going to have any major impact on my eve experience, but it's still improving the game.
It's easy to say that there are less people online because of incarna, but any number of expansions could/would have resulted in a drop in players. Incarna and the NeX store fail probably was the worst case scenario, but that don't mean that anything else would have been a massive success.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:43:00 -
[110]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:45:22
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.
Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.
Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.
Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.
1: Starcraft = Not a MMORPG. Comparing apples to oranges = bad. 2: Starcraft is indeed not subscription based. That means that people will be LESS likely to leave because they're also playing newer games. Costs them nothing to come back and play after a while. This argument of yours actually works against you. 3: Starcraft is ultimately an exception in the gaming market. The fact that EVE doesn't beat Starcraft doesn't make it an unsuccessful game.
People leave MMORPGs all the time. It's not a matter of sucking. It's simply a matter that new MMORPGs are released all the time.
The fact that despite this EVE population remains rather stable is an undeniable proof that new players are coming in. Not many ways to spin this.
Replace SC with WoW. Same thing. Also, pop is not stable. Look at the graphs. Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure. If you'd subtract alt-account inflation due to measures like "PLEX for friend" it would look even more grim. You can't explain this away with player fluctuation.
Starcraft isn't an exception. It's an example. The game shows what happens when you make great games and improve them in a way that your playerbase appreciates. It didn't have the bonus of increased commitment due to paid subscriptions and was technically far behind the competition, yet it still enjoyed more success online than most MMOGs and raked in million after million for Blizzard.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:54:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 22:55:29
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Replace SC with WoW. Same thing. Also, pop is not stable. Look at the graphs. Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure. If you'd subtract alt-account inflation due to measures like "PLEX for friend" it would look even more grim. You can't explain this away with player fluctuation.
Starcraft isn't an exception. It's an example. The game shows what happens when you make great games and improve them in a way that your playerbase appreciates. It didn't have the bonus of increased commitment due to paid subscriptions, yet it still enjoyed more success online than most MMOGs.
Your "examples" are indeed exceptions. You cherry pick two of the most successful games of the last twenty years. Not being AS successful as them doesn't make a game (and a niche, unforgiving one at that) unsuccessful. Besides, WoW isn't even near to the 8 years mark yet. We'll see how it'll have aged by then.
You don't seem to know much about marketing or this market in general, by the way, having an "increased commitment" due to paid subscription is a commercial disadvantage for a MMORPG, not an advantage.
Also, most of the other eve expansions didn't come out in the summer, in which, guess what? The server population normally goes down in ALL MMORPGs. Despite that, population is rather stable, that shows quite clearly that the expansion did bring in new players.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:58:00 -
[112]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure.
Incarna does have the second worst 30D release statistics, but the numbers for the two previous expansions are not great, and the summer expansion always have lower numbers. It would be more correct to say that incarna followed the already existing trend.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:01:00 -
[113]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 23:04:58
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Your "examples" are indeed exceptions. You cherry pick two of the most successful games of the last twenty years. Not being AS successful as them doesn't make a game (and a niche, unforgiving one at that) unsuccessful. Besides, WoW isn't even near to the 8 years mark yet. We'll see how it'll have aged by then.
No they're not. Cut the bull****, dude. They're both games like all others.
SC is a 2D game, 12 years old, *still running*. Why? Because it has great gameplay. WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.
If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.
Peace.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:13:00 -
[114]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Nex didn't have all that much to do with it. Seriously. Truth is, actual gamers would give a flying **** about Nex and whatever Hilmar blabbers on about if the game of Eve (you know... the blowing **** up part) was as great as it should be. If it was, people wouldn't even take the time to read all that ****. The fact that they do just shows that the game isn't keeping them hooked. And that's because you have stuff like ridiculously imbalanced ships floating around for months on end and not even a proper concept in sight on how to fix them (just one example).
I'm not denying that there is lots of stuff CCP can improve on, it's a known "fact" that it's the last 10% that takes 90% of the time when developing software, and it does feel like a lot of the stuff CCP implement is only 90% done. It seems like they are going to be using the next expansions on fixing stuff, which i believe is a good thing. At the moment eve has a lot of almost done features, and it would be better to improve and complete already implemented features then adding more to eve, that was the impression i got from the CCP soundwave interview on eve radio.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:22:00 -
[115]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.
If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.
ExpansionFeature +30D+60D+NextResult RMR/Bloodlines T2s, Carriers-4.6%+7.0%+11.9%Success Revelations IInvention, rigs +4.3%-0.1%+17.6%Major success Revelations IISov changes+0.8%+6.4%-2.6%Failure Trinity New graphics+2.4%+29.0%+19.5%Major success Empyrean AgeFaction war+0.5%+7.1%-8.5%Major failure Quantum RiseNano nerf+18.5% +30.5% +24.7% Major success ApocryphaWormholes+11.4%+10.7%+5.7%Success DominionSov changes+13.6%+13.5%+6.4%Success TyrannisPI +6.1%+2.6%-0.6%Failure IncursionIncursions+8.9%+16.8%-5.0%Failure Incarna CQ -1.8%?????????
Both the summer and winter expansions are dropping with around 5% each expansion after quantum rise, there was no reason to believe incarna or any other expansion would have changed that trend.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:23:00 -
[116]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Nex didn't have all that much to do with it. Seriously. Truth is, actual gamers would give a flying **** about Nex and whatever Hilmar blabbers on about if the game of Eve (you know... the blowing **** up part) was as great as it should be. If it was, people wouldn't even take the time to read all that ****. The fact that they do just shows that the game isn't keeping them hooked. And that's because you have stuff like ridiculously imbalanced ships floating around for months on end and not even a proper concept in sight on how to fix them (just one example).
I'm not denying that there is lots of stuff CCP can improve on
You almost hit the mark there. The point is: They should have improved on these things a long time ago. They didn't, because their management isn't focused and doesn't learn from the great examples that companies like Blizzard provide them with.
Quote: ...it's a known "fact" that it's the last 10% that takes 90% of the time when developing software, and it does feel like a lot of the stuff CCP implement is only 90% done. It seems like they are going to be using the next expansions on fixing stuff, which i believe is a good thing. At the moment eve has a lot of almost done features, and it would be better to improve and complete already implemented features then adding more to eve, that was the impression i got from the CCP soundwave interview on eve radio.
You could argue that 90% is nowhere near CCP's usual benchmark, unfotunately. For example: They made all these full-bodied presentations and announcements around captain's quarters, yet they didn't even manage to hit the deadline for all but the minmatar one. And it's running on an engine that is nowhere near as optimized as you would expect from something that they've been working on for 3+ years.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:28:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 23:29:05
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
No they're not. Cut the bull****, dude. They're both games like all others.
I know it's irritating to see your doom and gloom arguments dismantled, but you may want to chill :D
Quote: SC is a 2D game, 12 years old, *still running*. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
EVE Online is *still running* as well. Your point?
Quote: WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
The reason of WoW's success are much more complex than that. They involve the game being extremely casual friendly and forgiving, not to mention catering to the minimum common denominator of the gaming target.
EVE online, on the other hand, is a very unforgiving, PVP focused game, which makes it much less accessible to casual gamers.
WoW and Starcraft and two of the most successful games in the market. Not being as successful as them doesn't mean being unsuccessful, otherwise the whole gaming market would be a flop.
Quote: Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.
Actually all summer expansins didn't perform as well as the rest, which is only natural. As the poster above me said Incarna pretty much follows the common trend.
Quote: If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.
If you see people leave, it's mainly because the game is aging and they're growing naturally bored with it, while other new games (many of which are free to play) are released and people want to try them. The sole fact that a number of people are leaving but population is pretty much stable easily proves my point that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.
Gotta love, though, how you contradict yourself You say that WoW has "great gameplay". But it's population is starting to decrease due to the fact that the game is aging (much earlier than EVE mind you) and people go try other things. Evidence A: http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=55651
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.25 23:43:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Bringing in new players doesn't necessarily equate to increasing overall population.
So by your logic: 5,000* existing customers leaving and 1,000* new players arriving is a success?
You do realise that eve has a problem keeping new players right? It is a known fact.
You are able to read the graph right? The graph which shows no rise in users online after the Incarna expansions? You can see the peaks in people on line after all the other expansions right? And the dip in numbers after Incarna? Maybe you should take off your sunglasses and take another look.
* figures pulled straight out of my rectum. |
Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 00:01:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 00:02:08
Originally by: Booby Trap 5,000* existing customers leaving and 1,000* new players arriving is a success?
Thanks for specifying that you pulled the numbers out of your rectum. Which you indeed did.
By my logic (or any sensitive logic based on sound marketing facts), if a 8 years old product doesn't bleed users at a very high rate, it's a success.
The fact that no real big dip is visible means that new players are indeed coming. Unless, of course, you think that all the ones writing on the forums that they are quitting are just bull****ting us.
Quote: You do realise that eve has a problem keeping new players right? It is a known fact.
And that's why Incarna exists. Funny how some people are so resistant to it's implementation.
Quote:
You are able to read the graph right? The graph which shows no rise in users online after the Incarna expansions? You can see the peaks in people on line after all the other expansions right? And the dip in numbers after Incarna? Maybe you should take off your sunglasses and take another look.
The dip in numbers after incarna is very small and can easily be chalked to the usual summer dip, and no way comparable to the nose dives games this old normally take.
Find me a P2P game this old that's able to retain numbers as high as EVE, with this degree of stability, then we'll talk.
-- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
Thomas Phillippe
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Posted - 2011.07.26 00:11:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Thomas Phillippe on 26/07/2011 00:15:46 G 0 D,
Didn't you quit the game 5 months ago?
Originally by: G 0 D Joined eve for a pvp mmo, not barbie doll online. Unsubbing 5 accts.
How long are your subscriptions?
Correction: Apparently you've 'quit' multiple times before. Guess you're one of those that claims he's quitting but never works up the nerves to do it .
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Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.07.26 01:40:00 -
[121]
The problem with people who've quit is they can't post on the forums afterwards to prove that they did.
Fix Lag! |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 01:55:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 23:29:05
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
No they're not. Cut the bull****, dude. They're both games like all others.
I know it's irritating ... blablabla... totally not getting the point... blablabla
Alright. I bow before thee, my marketing expert teacher who knows everything there is to know about gaming. Bestow me with thy supreme knowledge and wisdom!
Incarna is totally launching Eve in the right direction. We should all rejoice and praise CCP from now on! It is clearly without fault and new players are joining in droves to enjoy the technical supremacy that is Captain's Quarters!
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Wreckar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 02:15:00 -
[123]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Incarna is totally launching Eve in the right direction. We should all rejoice and praise CCP from now on! It is clearly without fault and new players are joining in droves to enjoy the technical supremacy that is Captain's Quarters!
+1
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Alexei Bourkov
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 02:27:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges I have not seen a population drop.
I have.
Where's the graph pulled from? What's the original source of data? Who compiled it?
Anybody can put a bull**** graph together. You need a link with cited sources and "proof". _____________
There's only room for one of us in New Eden. You'd best be scanning down a wormhole. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.26 03:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Kin Netics You are not addressing the obvious "It's summer".
Originally by: Kin Netics ITS FREAKING SUMMER BRO!
Originally by: baltec1 Welcome to the yearly summer slowdown.
No. Summers have historically shown increased participation as a summer patch coincides with people going on vacation, which then slows down as vacations come to an end and as the autum terms begin.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Actually all summer expansins didn't perform as well as the rest, which is only natural. As the poster above me said Incarna pretty much follows the common trend.
Not quite. Incarna showed an immediate and severe reduction of players, unlike previous summers, where the population has increased during the same period.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen The dip in numbers after incarna is very small and can easily be chalked to the usual summer dip
No it can't because EVE does not have a "usual summer dip". The actual dip comes in August, and unlike Tyrannis, Incursion did not create a spike in activity ù it actually killed a spike that was building up.
So let's get this straight once and for all: Incarna did something no other patch has done ù it failed to produce the normal summer spike. One was building, as normal, but Incarna stopped it dead in its tracks.
Originally by: Alexei Bourkov Where's the graph pulled from? What's the original source of data? Who compiled it?
I compiled it from daily peak onine user statistics as published by CCP's own API. As you can see, Incarna has been an unmitigated disaster. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Wreckar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 03:29:00 -
[126]
So what happens when CCP removes a bunch of bots?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 03:31:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Tippia I compiled it from daily peak onine user statistics as published by CCP's own API. As you can see, Incarna has been an unmitigated disaster.
What... you mean you actually looked at reality when putting this together? That's despicable. Eugh!
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.26 04:05:00 -
[128]
Edited by: dexington on 26/07/2011 04:06:40 Not all curves are pretty
Logged-in Players (rolling averages) Bloodlines 2006 to Incarna 2011
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.26 04:39:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Wreckar So what happens when CCP removes a bunch of bots?
The same thing that happened in 2009. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.
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Posted - 2011.07.26 05:37:00 -
[130]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh wait, you were being serious?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
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Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.26 05:45:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh wait, you were being serious?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Playing Devil's Advocate (as I hated the game), WoW is the most successful MMOG in terms of subscriber count (if you believe Blizzard, at least) and it kind of follows that the most successful MMOG to date is success as it has - to that playerbase, at least - great gameplay. no?
oh, to hell with it. rabble rabble. where's my pitchfork. .
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 12:06:00 -
[132]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 26/07/2011 12:10:33
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh wait, you were being serious?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
10+ million subscribers. Nuff said. Go f* yourself.
The game is technically far ahead of Eve, it's well balanced and caters to its target audience just fine. It is the most successful MMOG to date. Of course you can always choose to ignore reality like the rest of deluded wackos around here. Your choice.
You don't have to like WoW. I know I don't. But that doesn't change reality. |
Sandrestal
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Posted - 2011.07.26 13:21:00 -
[133]
There is a old saying in business..."If you ain't growing, you're dying" |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 13:23:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Sandrestal There is a old saying in business..."If you ain't growing, you're dying"
Could be a proverb of cancer. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.26 13:26:00 -
[135]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 26/07/2011 04:06:40 Not all curves are pretty
Logged-in Players (rolling averages) Bloodlines 2006 to Incarna 2011
Too bad that post is gonna drown away. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.26 13:31:00 -
[136]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar The game (WoW) is technically far ahead of Eve
Thanks for making my day. |
Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.26 13:32:00 -
[137]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
The game is technically far ahead of Eve, it's well balanced
Giggle..well-balanced..giggle...laugh..hahahahahaha...<milk spews out nose>. WHen was it balanced?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 14:46:00 -
[138]
Originally by: G 0 D I am full of ****
Quote: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
One moment where they listen less to words than actions. Not we don't listen to what they say.
If you can't understand that you really are daft. If you can understand it then you need to STFU and deal with it.
The e-mail *WAS* condescending, which is what the real problem was. If you want to cry about that start a new thread and cry about that. But don't start a troll thread full of bull**** misconceptions.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:08:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 17:10:06
Originally by: Tippia [No. Summers have historically shown increased participation as a summer patch coincides with people going on vacation, which then slows down as vacations come to an end and as the autum terms begin.
Really now.
Really now. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Graph shows quite clearly than the summer dip does happen, and it happens right from the end of of June spanning across July. Oops.
Still have to bring me an example of another MMORPG that manages to keep this kind of numbers without much bigger player bleeding after 8 years of activity, by the way. I'm waiting. This of course voids all your other points. |
Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:10:00 -
[140]
Try answering my questions rather than evading them with the use of bull**** and mental gymnastics!
What sort of company would agree with your claim that losing an amount of customers and gaining a lesser amount of customers is a sucess.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen The fact that no real big dip is visible means that new players are indeed coming.
There is still a dip and, unlike previous expansions, there is no big spike either. You can provide no proof that new players are here. Based on current data, your assumptions are wrong.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen And that's why Incarna exists.
A poorly implemented and optimised Expansion will do nothing to attract new players.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen The dip in numbers after incarna is very small and can easily be chalked to the usual summer dip.
It is a little early for the traditional summer dip. Please try reading the data herebefore making more statements based on your half arsed assumptions.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen find me a P2P game this old that's able to retain numbers as high as EVE, with this degree of stability, then we'll talk.
Stop making ******ed comments, try reading and understanding the data, read CCPs acknowledgement that they are trying to fixthe CQ and accept that people are indeed having hardware issues, accept that people can no longer run multiple clients and that your experience of Incarna is not the same as everyone elses and that these issues affect a lot of paying customers.
Or you could just carry on sticking your fingers in your ears shouting La LA LA LA INCARNA IS AWESOME! |
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:22:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 17:24:20 Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 17:22:27
Originally by: Booby Trap Try answering my questions rather than evading them with the use of bull**** and mental gymnastics!
oh but I did. Not necessarily the answer you want to hear, in your biased attitude, but that's life.
Quote:
What sort of company would agree with your claim that losing an amount of customers and gaining a lesser amount of customers is a sucess.
A company that's providing a subscription-based 8 years old product in the face of competition that becomes fiercer every year and doesn't have a big customer bleedout, for instance.
Quote: There is still a dip and, unlike previous expansions, there is no big spike either. You can provide no proof that new players are here. Based on current data, your assumptions are wrong.
The dip is small, and the spike is very visible. As per the graph provided in the post above.
Quote:
A poorly implemented and optimised Expansion will do nothing to attract new players.
It sure lays the foundation for allowing such a thing to happen. You may have not noticed, but one of the worst problems EVE had at expanding it's customerbase was the absence of a real customizable avatar. MMORPGs are hedonistic experiences and Most MMORPG players want to play characters, not ships that look the same for everyone.
Quote: It is a little early for the traditional summer dip. Please try reading the data herebefore making more statements based on your half arsed assumptions.
I tend to get my own sources. The graph above (which shows the all-time data on a larger scale, and as such is quite apt at noticing general trends)shows quite clearly that the summer dip happens exactly as it happened this year.
Quote:
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen find me a P2P game this old that's able to retain numbers as high as EVE, with this degree of stability, then we'll talk.
Stop making ******ed comments, try reading and understanding the data, read CCPs acknowledgement that they are trying to fixthe CQ and accept that people are indeed having hardware issues, accept that people can no longer run multiple clients and that your experience of Incarna is not the same as everyone elses and that these issues affect a lot of paying customers.
Oh, but you didn't answer my question at all. How comes?
Anyone with a brain would understand that running multiple clients on outdated computers of any game with current graphics isn't going to happen.
This isn't a good reason to hold the game back. Want to run multiple clients? Get a top of the line PC, or get a second cheaper one.
They may be trying to optimize more, but don't expect them to remove incarna because you want to run 34 pilots at once and don't expect to run multiple clients in the future on your grandma's laptop, no matter how much optimization is done.
Quote: Or you could just carry on sticking your fingers in your ears shouting La LA LA LA INCARNA IS AWESOME!
yes, because someone that disagree with you is of course sticking his fingers in his ears. Ah, trolls. |
Booby Trap
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:32:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen BULL****
CCP hire this guy. |
Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:35:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen BULL****
CCP hire this guy.
No thanks, I like sunny Italy, i'll leave Iceland to the ones that really, really need a job.
"bull****" is not an answer, by the way. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:42:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 17:43:05
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Really now.
Really now. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Graph shows quite clearly than the summer dip does happen, and it happens right from the end of of June spanning across July. Oops.
This year, yes. Previous years, no. The difference? This year, Incarna was released at the end of June and killed the building summer peak. Tyrannis looks like it was different because it created a huge peak at patch release, but the summer bump compared to the spring before it is readily apparent. The summer after Apocrypha looks different because several thousand 23/7 bots were kicked out ù adjust the curve for them and you see a rise over the summer months.
So yes, really, the whole ôsummer slumpö thing is just a myth, and Incarna shows a drastically different (and very alarming) development than any other patch before it.
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Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 18:53:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 18:54:21
Originally by: Tippia This year, yes. Previous years, no. The difference? This year, Incarna was released at the end of June and killed the building summer peak. Tyrannis looks like it was different because it created a huge peak at patch release, but the summer bump compared to the spring before it is readily apparent. The summer after Apocrypha looks different because several thousand 23/7 bots were kicked out ù adjust the curve for them and you see a rise over the summer months.
So yes, really, the whole ôsummer slumpö thing is just a myth, and Incarna shows a drastically different (and very alarming) development than any other patch before it.
hey look, someone's trying to warp reality.
Last year: summer dip very isible between the beginning of july and the beginning of august. 2 years ago: Huge dip. Nice excuse with the ban of bots, but that's a tad of a weak one.
Funny to see someone trying to argue against something that happens in every online game out there since online gaming's inception.
The only alarming thing about incarna is that it shows how hostile a certain part of the EVE community is to change. Though luck though, change doesn't stop for anyone.
By the way, you're still very conveniently forgetting to name one P2P mmorpg that after 8 years is going as strong as EVE, with this kind of subscriber stability. Come on, since you think CCP is so bad i'm suuuuure you'll have plenty examples right? -- Abriael
Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.26 19:21:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 19:25:36
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Last year: summer dip very isible between the beginning of july and the beginning of august.
Last year: end of summer higher than the spring; middle of summer higher than the end.
Quote: 2 years ago: Huge dip.
àa dip of ~5,000 players, just the same as the number of bots booted, which happened at the exact time as when that number of bots were booted. If you want to call the truth "weak"à well, that actually explains a lot about what you're trying to say.
Quote: The only alarming thing about incarna is
àhow it did something no other patch has done: it has killed a peak that was clearly beginning to build at a time when such peak normally evolve.
Quote: By the way, you're still very conveniently forgetting to name one P2P mmorpg that after 8 years is going as strong as EVE
So what? That only shows how abysmal Incarna is since it breaks that streak like a iron bar to the shins. EVE has been able to grow even over the summers, except after Incarna. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Tal Rann
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Posted - 2011.07.26 19:21:00 -
[147]
Hell boy, I don't know what you saying but here when they nerf the dramiel my two accounts are going stone cold. Seems the big boys who play with their toys don't like the little D cause it's too fast and funky for them to handle. They get to play all by themlonesomes in 0.0
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 19:31:00 -
[148]
looks like a <2% change. Drastic indeed. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.
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Posted - 2011.07.27 11:38:00 -
[149]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 26/07/2011 12:10:33
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh wait, you were being serious?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
10+ million subscribers. Nuff said.
Quality over quantity. Enough said.
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
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