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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
252
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:This seems to me to be one of those patches to fight AFK farming. I have seen it done in many games before.
Usually the farmers end up finding a way around it and it only serves to make the game harder for normal players.
Personally I welcome the change as it will make missions a little less boring. But what about all the new players that can barely complete level 4 missions as it is? They get screwed just so they can stop a few AFK drone boat farmers? If this AI change also make your own drones smarter than I could support it. However making changes that negatively affect new players while having little to no effect on veteran players will not help EVE to grow.
yep, ccp tempting the Gods of Unintended Consequences yet again lol.
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Melina Lin
Universal Frog
38
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ishen Villone wrote:Screwed? Their missions are being made less boring, as you just said. That's the opposite of being screwed.
They are not changing the missions, they are as mind numbingly boring as ever. If you on the other hand find buying three new drones exciting...
It'll start to get exciting if NPC battleships would actually do 1000DPS each. Add heavy neuts for good measure and elite frigs which TD and neut you like a Sentinel does.
THAT would get exciting rather quickly. |
stoicfaux
1664
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Biggest risk for non-drone boats is losing your light drones to NPC drone hate and getting perma-webbed/scrammed by NPC frigates.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
29
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Losing drones is the same as using ammo for gun/missile users.
If you are using drone boats you will have multiple flights of drones the their drone bays are usually multiple time the size of the bandwidth.
if i'm in my arbi (which I have always loved :) ) running sites in low sec (poor pirate here!) and I lose a drone I don't cry about it I just launch another one and rack it up to 'ammo cost'.
All the ships that use drones as a primary DPS source can field multiple flights of the same drone. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
GreenSeed
85
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Posted - 2012.09.21 03:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Syn Fatelyng wrote:GreenSeed wrote:lvl4s dont respawn and CANT be farmed Mission farming is actually very common. Setup 5-6 agents with the Big Missions (World's Collide, Dread Scarlet, etc) and so long as you don't kill the trigger for each mission it will fully respawn after DT. Easy ISK, and it's something I used to do at 70-80m an hour (bounty+reward+salvage+loot+lp@900ISK/LP). Then, just before the mission fails (7 day timer), you turn them in and repeat. i dont think you have an idea of what the plex exploit is. what you are talking about requires you sitting at the pc and doing something, the plex farm would work while 100% afk. |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
39
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Posted - 2012.09.21 04:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Syn Fatelyng wrote:GreenSeed wrote:lvl4s dont respawn and CANT be farmed Mission farming is actually very common. Setup 5-6 agents with the Big Missions (World's Collide, Dread Scarlet, etc) and so long as you don't kill the trigger for each mission it will fully respawn after DT. Easy ISK, and it's something I used to do at 70-80m an hour (bounty+reward+salvage+loot+lp@900ISK/LP). Then, just before the mission fails (7 day timer), you turn them in and repeat. i dont think you have an idea of what the plex exploit is. what you are talking about requires you sitting at the pc and doing something, the plex farm would work while 100% afk. I was misinformed then. Thank you for clarifying. |
Bing Khagah
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.09.21 04:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Using drones is the same as using ammo for gun/missile users. If you are using drone boats you may have multiple flights of the exact same drone, normally, though, the different flights have different purposes and are therefore not greatly interchangable - a couple of spares of a couple of types though is more probable , bays are usually multiple time the size of the bandwidth. All the ships that use drones as a primary DPS source can field multiple flights of the same drone - if they give up dynamic response flight setups - who needs gardes when I can have 10 5-drone hobgoblin flights!
Fixed.
Taoist Dragon wrote: if i'm in my arbi (which I have always loved :) ) running sites in low sec (poor pirate here!) and I lose a drone I don't cry about it I just launch another one and rack it up to 'ammo cost'.
Wouldn't it be great if the AI modifications also included NPCs treating all primary weapons system as disposable? Just fit another one and rack it up to 'weapon system cost' And eh. This'll make things interesting. I do hope pilots decide to willingly sacrifice their ecm/web/etc ohsit saviours. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually.
All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Hav0cide
Shadow Proclamation.
6
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well this will make the 'maze' and a few other 1010's very interesting. Your gonna need a logi to rep the logi. Just means more team work. :) |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
216
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
In all honesty it's a huge area that does need adjustments... Even new players can easily handle NPC's behaving smarter, doing mroe dps and tanking better. Reducing NPC groups to half their numbers with double HP/DPS/Bounty and perhaps even adjust bounty payments to something similar to taking out incursion sites would really enrich EVE for almost everybody.
Pinky |
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Lord Okinaba
25
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Syn Fatelyng wrote:Tarikla wrote:You assume Drones Ship are played in an active fashion ... it's not the case. Drones Ships are AFK machines, anyone who want an active ship will go for a GunBoat, much more efficient in term of damages ...
So RIP Drones Ships . You assume I don't active play my 960 dps Rattlesnake. Or my 1.2k dps Navy Dominix. I understand and am aware of AFK drone boats being hit by this. But not all drone boats, and not all drone pilots are afk pilots.
First off, I don't believe there are fully AFK Domi pilots out there, unless they're running low level mission with them. Going fully AFK in a L4 isn't feasible, even with the current AI. Semi AFK, maybe.
I actively run run missions in a Navy Domi and find that at the moment I do far too much drone juggling. I dread to think what it will be like after the new AI has been implemented.
Also 1.2k DPS from your Navy Domi? Fit please. |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
39
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lord Okinaba wrote:Also 1.2k DPS from your Navy Domi? Fit please. Standard 3x DDA, 3x Mag Field(faction), 425mms (faction AM, dirt cheap with rail RoF). Shield tanked. 5x Gardes and no need for sentry rigs. Throw on gun and shield implants as needed.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
253
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hav0cide wrote:Well this will make the 'maze' and a few other 1010's very interesting. Your gonna need a logi to rep the logi. Just means more team work. :)
You know of a logistics ship that can tank the Torp (while probably webbed) in the last room of the Maze? I'd love to see it, that is if it existed at all, which it doesn't.
Plenty of people in the blog comments thread (including myself) have repeatedly warned the DEVs of the potential for this change to utterly break High End DED/Exploration sites.
IMO They either need to damp down the citadel torps in those plexes (or remove them altogether to be replaced by more npc ships or gun-turrets) or keep the npcs/structures that fire the torps under the current AI scheme (where they don't switch aggro at all).
Once they fix the Citadel Torp issue, i have no other concerns. Yea, the change will mean different approaches to high end plexes, maybe even having to "bring friends" to what for the last few years has been basically "solo" content (I do every 10/10 and high end exept the blood raider one by dual boxing Machariel and Tengu). That is basically a nerf, but it's all good, it just means plex loot will be more profitable.
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
873
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Posted - 2012.09.21 14:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually. All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)
I'm sure that'll be interesting.
So you're saying we'll have Neuting, Webbing, Scramming all on one ship? From frigates to battleships?
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
TriadSte
IronPig Sev3rance
111
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
People just simply run 2 tengus with 1 large RR each and deadspace hardeners
That is what you call
Winning
Even after the HML nerf it will put out 450 DPS per ship so 900 DPS in a ded plex aint too bad.
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Ishen Villone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:People just simply run 2 tengus with 1 large RR each and deadspace hardeners
That is what you call
Winning
Even after the HML nerf it will put out 450 DPS per ship so 900 DPS in a ded plex aint too bad.
Tengus are a challenge to harden for the maze, as the torpedo is EM but you also need substantial kinetic and thermal resists for the rest of the guristas. Once you're up to speed it's not bad, but the first couple minutes while you swat all the web frigates can get hairy.
I'll probably upgrade my Tengus to X-type hardeners. Not like they're in short supply for a maze runner! |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
316
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
My thoughts are there are too many broken items in Eve for CCP to be wasting time with NPC AI at this point in time Selective Pressure [FOVRA] is now recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1797934#post1797934 |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
751
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Posted - 2012.09.21 20:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:My thoughts are there are too many broken items in Eve for CCP to be wasting time with NPC AI at this point in time
Thing is, it's not really the programmers who are dealing with the NPC AI... it's the content designers, and not even the entire content team. For example, I am working on FW not NPC AI CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
896
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Posted - 2012.09.21 22:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:My thoughts are there are too many broken items in Eve for CCP to be wasting time with NPC AI at this point in time
NPC AI is more important as you think. If we would be able to use pvp fitts for pve eve would be a much better place a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Tarikla
Projet Aurora
30
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Posted - 2012.09.22 00:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually. All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)
Is this only a graphic thingy ? Like, no more Rail on a NPC Rattlesnake hull (kind of hilarious i must say) ? Or does that mean also a change in their DPS, Ewar ability, ect ? |
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stoicfaux
1670
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Posted - 2012.09.22 01:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:My thoughts are there are too many broken items in Eve for CCP to be wasting time with NPC AI at this point in time NPC AI is more important as you think. If we would be able to use pvp fitts for pve eve would be a much better place
Never fear, CCP is ...err I mean it's in the works: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1947688#post1947688
CCP FoxFour wrote: Our ultimate goal is that PvP and PvE fits should be the same and a lot of the thought process should be the same. That is... a long way off though.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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Belthazor4011
Battle BV I Know Right
52
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Posted - 2012.09.22 01:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is just a slap in the face for drone users. Anyone that doesnt rely on their drones for DPS isnt gonna notice this change at all. Seriously this has 0 impact on someone not using drones...
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Adigard
RubberDuckies -Entropy-
0
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Posted - 2012.09.22 03:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Syn Fatelyng wrote:Sometimes they just plain stop and sit there. In ten years, this has never happened to me. My drone settings are aggressive, focus fired, and so long as something is hitting me or them there's zero issue.[/quote]
In those ten years you've never ever attempted Worlds Collidev. Guristas Pirates & Serpentis, right? Because it's fairly common for the Serpentis rats to drop aggro en-masse and either target your drones mid-fight or continue attacking you while your drones go AFK.
There are a few other circumstances where certain drones (looking at Sentries here) will focus fire on a frigate which they'll never hit, ignoring the larger ships they could easily kill, but that's easily corrected if you're actively paying attention to what your drones are hitting. |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
41
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Posted - 2012.09.22 05:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Adigard wrote:In those ten years you've never attempted Worlds Collidev. Guristas Pirates & Serpentis, right? Because it's fairly common for the Serpentis rats in the first room to drop aggro en-masse and either target your drones mid-fight or continue attacking you while your drones go AFK. My primary mission hub is with Serpentis, and what you are describing has never occurred to me.Quote:Just a minor nit-pick... but how on earth are you farming LP on a mission you turn in once a week? Also, how much travelling are you doing each day to hit those 6 missions? It's not like agents don't offer a lot of scut missions for each one of the worthwhile ones. So apparently you're declining 5-10 missions per agent x 5 agents and repairing your faction by completing one worthwhile mission per agent per week? Or are you chain-completing some of those worthless missions x5 agents until each agent offers you one of a very small and select pool of valuable missions that's actually worth repeating. I do not have any answers for your questions, I'm afraid. I answered the initial question as a means of showing that quite a few people do farm missions in that manner. However, I only know the answers via proxy. I am not a mission farmer myself (sleeper income).
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1263
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Posted - 2012.09.22 06:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
This fixes one of the stupidest mechanics of EVE Online, and has been on my short list of dream fixes since I started playing-
"Tank & DPS" ships. It's hilariously ******** that you drop a tanking ship to a site, and then the rats just keep shooting it, and neglect all the other ships that are actually killing them. Props to CCP for fixing this!
This also means that a PVEr is not automatically worse off in case someone jumps you while running a site. In w-space attackers have to account for the sleepers, which makes it more interesting and challenging to everybody.
As what comes to drones getting aggro, it's a non-issue, especially if it's even milder than in wormholes. I've soloed C 1-3 anoms and sites in drone ships and it's perfectly doable. Yes, you have to be alert, but that's why I play, to have an immersive and involving experience. I've never worried about waiting for aggro before dropping drones, when running k-space plexes in Ishtar I always drop sentries right away, and start one-shotting frigs. By the time the poor rats realize they are getting obliterated and start locking my drones, I've done a lot of damage. Then recall them, drop again.
HP bonused drones don't instapop.
Drones today are very powerful for their raw dps, range, tracking and damage application, this change prevents drones from becoming completely OP compared to other setups in PVE. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Lord Leftfield
The Society Calyxes
10
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Posted - 2012.09.22 10:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
In many ways I personally welcome this change. Having trouble staying awake in missions and anomolies these days, this certanly will give it more longviaty. But on the other side, double nerf will sit ill with parts of the community. The rumored missile nerf and now this, a droneboat "nerf". Migth be to much for some |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
49
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Posted - 2012.09.22 18:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Guess I won't be bringing in low-SP friends in their terribad fits into Lv4s while I tank everything in a Rattlesnake, just for giggles. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
42
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Posted - 2012.09.23 16:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually. All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)
This is a good thing.
but will you be doing them as supertanky pve fits, or superganky pvp fits :D |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
543
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Posted - 2012.09.23 18:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually.
I use drone ships in both wormholes and incursions without losing any.
Glad you did your research before posting. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.23 23:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
After this change, will sentries be far preferable to heavies, given that sentries can be recalled instantly, while heavies have to MWD directly away from the rats back to your ship, probably getting popped in the process? |
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