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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1268
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Posted - 2012.09.24 05:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:41:00 -
[62] - Quote
Roime wrote:Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both. Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions? |
bufnitza calatoare
Snap Crackle Pop. AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both. Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions?
I use them in forsaken hubs. |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both. Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions? I use them in forsaken hubs.
Awesome, thanks. I've been doing those in a Myrmidon with Hammerhead IIs while saving up/training up to use the Domi. With the medium drones, the battleships and elite cruisers can take a while to pop, so I'm looking forward to getting into the Dominix. Too bad I already wasted 3 days training Heavy Drones V, but I'll still train it at some point anyway, so at least it isn't totally wasted. |
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
13
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.
Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of: - same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first) - then highest dps targets first after that. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
260
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
Chimpy B wrote:If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.
Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of: - same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first) - then highest dps targets first after that.
I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such.
The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol).
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Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
13
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Posted - 2012.09.24 16:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Chimpy B wrote:If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.
Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of: - same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first) - then highest dps targets first after that. I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such. The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol). Yeah that would be nice, but might be considered too "easy mode" and also the interface might get too complicated for new players.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
350
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Posted - 2012.09.24 17:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Chimpy B wrote:If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.
Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of: - same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first) - then highest dps targets first after that. I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such. The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol).
I would just be happy to have some early warning. Like a warning alarm when my drones are getting yellow boxed, so I dont have to wait until they are taking damage to react, and then wait for their lag time responding etc etc. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
32
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Posted - 2012.09.24 23:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
Time to train up drone durability 5
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1270
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Posted - 2012.09.25 15:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Allophyl wrote:bufnitza calatoare wrote:Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both. Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions? I use them in forsaken hubs. Awesome, thanks. I've been doing those in a Myrmidon with Hammerhead IIs while saving up/training up to use the Domi. With the medium drones, the battleships and elite cruisers can take a while to pop, so I'm looking forward to getting into the Dominix. Too bad I already wasted 3 days training Heavy Drones V, but I'll still train it at some point anyway, so at least it isn't totally wasted.
Especially anoms and exploration, I haven't spent much time missioning. I'd consider the Ishtar for null ratting, you will appreciate it's agility when you need to leave in a hurry, but Dominix is a boss as well.
Heavy Drones SP are certainly not wasted, don't worry! They are mobile, which is handy in some situations. Sentries just do instant damage over long ranges with very good tracking (think of long-range battleship guns with short-range gun tracking). Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
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Veritas Luxmea
Cosmo Paladins Tribal Band
2
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Posted - 2012.09.25 23:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
I currently use 2 accounts to dual-box 10/10s in Blood Raider nullsec (and all other plexes below 10/10, obviously). My setup is a tank and a DPS. Each is trained and fitted for its own role, in a way my tank doesn't do any DPS, and my DPS doesn't tank a flying chicken coming it's direction.
Target changing means the end of Plexing for me.
Since plexing is one of the things I do the most in EVE, I wonder if it will break my will to play.
It remains to be seen. |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.25 23:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually. All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)
While this and the whole "improving the AI to make rats more like players" sounds like a nice goal on paper, in reality there is a huge problem with it. There's a major difference between PvP and PvE: PvP costs money. PvE is used as a way to make money. In PvP you *expect* to lose your ship, while in PvE, losing ships at anything near the rate you do in PvP will make it completely unsustainable and make it impossible to make a profit except with large gangs. Granted, PvE should still carry *some* risk, but when you start giving every rat a point, web and prop mod and bring their ships in line with player ships, *and* give the player absolutely no way of controlling aggro, the risk suddenly goes through the roof, making the reward no longer worth it, and making the curve for new players orders of magnitude steeper - and not only that, but it will absolutely kill variety in fits, since every single player will have to fit for both tank and dps - goodbye specialized ships. |
Veritas Luxmea
Cosmo Paladins Tribal Band
2
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years! |
Adigard
RubberDuckies -Entropy-
16
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
Allophyl wrote: ...but when you start giving every rat a point, web and prop mod and bring their ships in line with player ships, *and* give the player absolutely no way of controlling aggro, the risk suddenly goes through the roof, making the reward no longer worth it, and making the curve for new players orders of magnitude steeper - and not only that, but it will absolutely kill variety in fits, since every single player will have to fit for both tank and dps - goodbye specialized ships.
Ultimately we'll have rat cruiser's spider tanking all the incoming damage... and they'll still be worth 150k ISK.
Really I think the people hoping for rat AI / ship fittings to be equal to player's forget that the average L4 mission has 40+ rats, very few of which are actually worth killing for their ISK rewards. |
Slumpert
Hookers and Quafe
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
My question would be ... Does this also affect the "AI" of gate guns? |
Hyrath Rotineque
EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda
12
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Posted - 2012.09.26 04:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
Veritas Luxmea wrote:Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years! Stop complaining and just get 2 Marauders with 1 energy transfer and 2 reps. Problems solved. |
bufnitza calatoare
Snap Crackle Pop. AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 05:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
imo and as other have said before me. tot he solo player it will have neg effect if at all.
but to those that use a logistics alt it will have more noticeable effect.
otherwise its eve online as usual. |
bufnitza calatoare
Snap Crackle Pop. AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 05:13:00 -
[78] - Quote
Veritas Luxmea wrote:Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years!
not going to worry me in the slightest. iw ill still make 35+m per tick.
well if you cant handle the change feel free to contract me everything you own and I will give you an account name to transfer your char/s to.
have a good one |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1271
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 05:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
Veritas Luxmea wrote:I currently use 2 accounts to dual-box 10/10s in Blood Raider nullsec (and all other plexes below 10/10, obviously). My setup is a tank and a DPS. Each is trained and fitted for its own role, in a way my tank doesn't do any DPS, and my DPS doesn't tank a flying chicken coming it's direction.
Target changing means the end of Plexing for me.
Since plexing is one of the things I do the most in EVE, I wonder if it will break my will to play.
It remains to be seen.
How about revisiting your setup to accommodate for these changes instead?
Don't you think the current AI is ridiculously idiotic- they keep shooting the same ship they can't break, while the clearly superior threat keeps popping them left and right?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Adigard
RubberDuckies -Entropy-
16
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Posted - 2012.09.26 11:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Roime wrote: Don't you think the current AI is ridiculously idiotic- they keep shooting the same ship they can't break, while the clearly superior threat keeps popping them left and right?
Actually what I think it ridiculously idiotic is changing something that's worked perfectly for damn near a decade for absolutely no immediate gain (unless you benefit from one of the raft of unintended consequences this is going to bring) other than being able to add a little blurb on the patch notes.
Also, there's no actual proof that what you're assuming, is actually how they work... of course the test servers mysteriously vanished early on and won't be back until this weekend, so who knows. |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1272
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 12:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
It hasn't worked perfectly for a decade. It's been ridiculous, broken and exploitable for nearly a decade, now they finally fix it.
Sleeper & Incursion Sansha AI, which is what the new AI is based on, is just more fun and challenging than vanilla empire PVE, now you can enjoy it too :)
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 12:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
Roime wrote:It hasn't worked perfectly for a decade. It's been ridiculous, broken and exploitable for nearly a decade, now they finally fix it.
Sleeper & Incursion Sansha AI, which is what the new AI is based on, is just more fun and challenging than vanilla empire PVE, now you can enjoy it too :)
This isn't fixing it, it's breaking it more. Why do you think every single MMO out there has a way to control a mob's aggro? Do you seriously think that taking that ability away is going to be good for the game? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
376
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 14:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
i'll just buy 10000 T1 drones and never ever recover them. problem solved.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1274
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 15:58:00 -
[84] - Quote
Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:It hasn't worked perfectly for a decade. It's been ridiculous, broken and exploitable for nearly a decade, now they finally fix it.
Sleeper & Incursion Sansha AI, which is what the new AI is based on, is just more fun and challenging than vanilla empire PVE, now you can enjoy it too :)
This isn't fixing it, it's breaking it more. Why do you think every single MMO out there has a way to control a mob's aggro? Do you seriously think that taking that ability away is going to be good for the game?
Do you actually claim that wh PVE and Incursions are bad for the game, because they are not like other MMOs? Or something.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 18:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
Roime wrote:Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:It hasn't worked perfectly for a decade. It's been ridiculous, broken and exploitable for nearly a decade, now they finally fix it.
Sleeper & Incursion Sansha AI, which is what the new AI is based on, is just more fun and challenging than vanilla empire PVE, now you can enjoy it too :)
This isn't fixing it, it's breaking it more. Why do you think every single MMO out there has a way to control a mob's aggro? Do you seriously think that taking that ability away is going to be good for the game? Do you actually claim that wh PVE and Incursions are bad for the game, because they are not like other MMOs? Or something. Is this a troll, or are you just that dense and incapable of actually reading? Having a way to control a mob's aggro is essential for group PvE to work, otherwise you have squishy dps players/ships dying all the time and leaving the tanks without enough dps to kill the mobs, and anything beyond solo PvE becomes unfun, or else EVERYBODY is forced in to the same, identical cookie-cutter role. In Eve, rather than having skills to control aggro, we're able to exploit its AI. YES, it is unrealistic, but so is the mechanic in other MMOs, and since when do we play MMOs for their realism? Fun > Realism. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
362
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 18:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
Ishen Villone wrote: Realistically, though, the AI needs to change because right now the default AI is absolutely pathetic. It's boring, and boring hurts Eve. This will definitely make the high end DED complexes more interesting. Any ship on the field is going to have to be able to tank those ridiculous citadel torpedoes. Gurista complexes will be particularly... er, interesting, since their torpedo does EM damage.
+10 on this +100 on this
The missions are too much of a cakewalk with the predictable current AI. Incursion AI can still surprise at times & although it does become a grind they often can become challenging when someone DC's or screws something up. I assume the sleeper AI is the same.
I think it is far FAR BETTER to improve the AI to reduce the mission/rat/anom/complex ISK faucets then to have to resort to the 10% across the board bounty reductions that CCP Soundwave was putting forth during his TenTonHammer interview earlier this year.
I see this as a good step and hopefully one of many towards improving Eve's PvE. Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2012.09.26 18:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
My thoughts:
Instead of people running a tank and dps for lvl 4 missions, you're just now going to see the same thing you saw in wormholes - RR'ing ships that orbit each other. My dominix/dps combo will now become RR domi/domi sentry drone.. Yawn. |
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
14
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Posted - 2012.09.26 20:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
I foresee the market cost of deadspace modules is going to go up :p |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1274
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Posted - 2012.09.26 20:29:00 -
[89] - Quote
Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:Allophyl wrote:Roime wrote:It hasn't worked perfectly for a decade. It's been ridiculous, broken and exploitable for nearly a decade, now they finally fix it.
Sleeper & Incursion Sansha AI, which is what the new AI is based on, is just more fun and challenging than vanilla empire PVE, now you can enjoy it too :)
This isn't fixing it, it's breaking it more. Why do you think every single MMO out there has a way to control a mob's aggro? Do you seriously think that taking that ability away is going to be good for the game? Do you actually claim that wh PVE and Incursions are bad for the game, because they are not like other MMOs? Or something. Is this a troll, or are you just that dense and incapable of actually reading? Having a way to control a mob's aggro is essential for group PvE to work, otherwise you have squishy dps players/ships dying all the time and leaving the tanks without enough dps to kill the mobs, and anything beyond solo PvE becomes unfun, or else EVERYBODY is forced in to the same, identical cookie-cutter role. In Eve, rather than having skills to control aggro, we're able to exploit its AI. YES, it is unrealistic, but so is the mechanic in other MMOs, and since when do we play MMOs for their realism? Fun > Realism.
I do only group PVE in EVE, against rats that already have this improved AI.
Take your dumb back to wow, while we have fun with remote repair.
Oh and this PVE is even more fun because it happens in -1.0 space with very limited means to control player aggro. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Allophyl
Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 20:54:00 -
[90] - Quote
Roime wrote:Take your dumb back to wow. Not only have I never even touched wow, aggro-control mechanics have existed since the days of MUDs, many of which, if you want this to be a "EVE is so hardcore and so am I hurr durr go back to wow" pissing contest, were far less forgiving than Eve is. Enjoy your cookie-cutter fits. |
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