Browsing reddit and I saw this post from an Eve player: Just a normal fw payout

And this was the screenshot: 184,250,000,000 isk

So, assuming that the claim is factual (multiple Minmatar characters semi-afk) - should a low-risk activity in a frigate be rewarded with 184 billion isk per week?

According to the anti-high sec zealots, no number is ridiculous, as long as it is not high sec.
So yeah, running around with a 3 day alt in a speed tanked Incurses, with zero weapons, orbiting low sec plexes for a payout, yeah, billions and billions of ISK / week is entirely reasonable. But for a high sec player to make 1 hundredth of that, oh no, that is unbalancing the game.

You have not figured out yet the agenda of most of the CSM and some element of CCP employees.

According to the anti-high sec zealots, no number is ridiculous, as long as it is not high sec.
So yeah, running around with a 3 day alt in a speed tanked Incurses, with zero weapons, orbiting low sec plexes for a payout, yeah, billions and billions of ISK / week is entirely reasonable. But for a high sec player to make 1 hundredth of that, oh no, that is unbalancing the game.

You have not figured out yet the agenda of most of the CSM and some element of CCP employees.

lol shut up

this whole FW thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting till the next expansion to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your risk-free 120m/hour vanguard farming should come back

lol shut up

this whole FW thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting till the next expansion to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your risk-free 120m/hour vanguard farming should come back

A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.

It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.

And with every FW Tier 5 attained the inflation of PLEX has skyrocketed now at a near all time high once again... where are all the tears about how FW is ruining the economy like Incursions were?

FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.

FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.

It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.

A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.

Your logic is flawed. Both give LP, but one is a sink, and one is a faucet?

So you are telling me every price spike that acompanies FW Teir 5 is not inflating the price of PLEX.
FYI there are many things that can cause inflation go reread your Freshman econ book for a few hints.


Anyhoo... looks like CCP has finally done the math too and realizes that the FW ISK reduction in the LP store is degrading the ISK sink function of LP stores so they are taking it away ( not too soon enough )

Wasn't that the screenshot from the goons before it all got taken away?

CCP has already stated their intention to make alliance income bottom-up rather than top-down so lmao get 0wned

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.

How is alchemy supposed to accomplish this?

I heard SotG and it sounds like they're just screwing things up more than fixing them.

FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.

FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.

How is alchemy supposed to accomplish this?

I heard SotG and it sounds like they're just screwing things up more than fixing them.

Reducing the amount of isk it takes to buy the goods doesn't make it less a sink, just less of a sink. If you spend 20M and make 80M, it's still a sink of 20M, regardless of the profit.

FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.

Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5

Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.

1. prices that show in hangers are no where near what they are really valued at but if all that is from 7 days of work , it's still a good amount
2. No way he did that on one account. He probably was running multiple, multiple accounts so that is not what your average player will make

But it is keeping more ISK in the economy unless demand goes up correspondingly ( which it aint I doubt implant market is elastic ammo may be a little but no where near as much as the ISK reductions are )

It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.

Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.

You're bitching about CCP making missions interesting?

Jesus Christ, why do you people even play video games? I can't understand for the life of me targeting the same semi-worthless rats over and over just to farm isk.

high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch

high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch

I'm sensing elitism.

It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.

So Lyron have you been able to sell that 20 billion ISK's worth of items you got from your first Tier 5 cash out?
If so how long did it take?

Nahh, I still got most of it and more. I sell some items as I need isk but I'm trying to save it for when the nerf hits and prices go back to normal. Been slacking off a bit as I'm now employed so can't run as many sites as I use to.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do after the nerf but no ideas yet

When markets get flooded to that degree, you'll likely be waiting a very long time after a fix before prices approach what you consider "normal".

Sisi is hard

FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.

What happens after the ISK and LP is converted to items is irrelevant with regards to the monetary supply. Or are you claiming that people leave LP unconverted?

And prices decreasing is exactly what you'd expect if the balance of pressures tended towards the deflationary, so now you're just making points against your claim that FW is an ISK faucet or in any way inflationary.

Nullsec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues in hi-sec and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of introducing any new WiS content such as the Nex store or dream about going near moon mining and sovereignty with their revamp bats without giving them more pew pew or bang for their sovereignty & blobbish buck.

they want to make hi-sec levels of income plummet into non-existence while stripping local and demanding that hi-sec bears and new players can only serve them as their tackle rifter fodder in their quest to reconquer Delve without being able to play the game the way they want to.

I never claimed FW was an ISK faucet: I am saying it reduces the LP store ISK sink function over the long run due to inelasticity of most all the faction items demand.
I also believe the WILD amounts of ISK being made thru the sales of these faction items is causing the inflation for the price of PLEX

Fixed it for you.

high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch

when I asked about null sec levels of income I was given an average figure of 30 mill per hour

All the Porto's are Goonswarm alts that spreas disinformation.

I never claimed FW was an ISK faucet: I am saying it reduces the LP store ISK sink function over the long run due to inelasticity of most all the faction items demand.
I also believe the WILD amounts of ISK being made thru the sales of these faction items is causing the inflation for the price of PLEX

FW itself really shouldn't be an isk faucet at all. The act of running the sites and taking control of the system shouldn't be rewarded, because all that rewards is rapidly flipping systems. What should be rewarded is holding systems, with the rewards increasing the more systems you hold. This encourages players to want to hold onto their space. Currently, the space itself means nothing, its just the place where you go for FW. Its not worth fighting over, so all the fighting is just for the sake of fighting.

Are you one of those people who believe we didn't land on the moon and that there's a hidden german base at the south pole?

If anyone making only 30m/hr in null, then something is terribly wrong. I am hisec dweller mostly, but occasionaly i go ninja rat to null. 80m/hr is no problem in null. Of course you have to know which regions, what tactics, chances to intercept officers etc. Same rules are in hisec. If anyone is whining that hisec pilots earns too much and more than nullsec pilot, maybe its time to review their abilities and skills in earning isk. Problem is in pilots, not EvE mechanics.

If anyone making only 30m/hr in null, then something is terribly wrong. I am hisec dweller mostly, but occasionaly i go ninja rat to null. 80m/hr is no problem in null. Of course you have to know which regions, what tactics, chances to intercept officers etc. Same rules are in hisec. If anyone is whining that hisec pilots earns too much and more than nullsec pilot, maybe its time to review their abilities and skills in earning isk. Problem is in pilots, not EvE mechanics.

A blaster Naga can generate 90m-120m per hour in Guristas/Serpentis regions and a Vindicator can generate 120m-150m per hour, but those figures are basically with shield gank setups that die the moment anything sneezes at them (and yes, people shoot you in nullsec!) On the other hand, before the Escalation nerf to incursions, those income figures were achievable with T3/faction BS fleets and one guy I know had a Nightmare with a two slot tank and had no problem because they were ridiculously safe. Yet people want the Escalation changes reversed because it killed the incursion ~community~ or whatever.

already answered that:

Your logic is flawed. Both give LP, but one is a sink, and one is a faucet?

FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.

Implying there were no griefers blowing up faction fitted battleships by either abusing the aggression mechanics, awoxing, refusing to put their remote reps on ships, wardeccing or straight up suicide ganking. I agree with you that the nerf was rightful and the huge isk faucet somewhat hurt the game, but straight out saying highsec was oh so dandy and nullsec is so full of risks is bullshit.

Weird. Cause when the ISK flowed better than it does now, things were cheaper. The ice/mining interdictions came and all of a sudden, things started going up. Musta been coincidence.

Weird. Cause when the ISK flowed better than it does now, things were cheaper. The ice/mining interdictions came and all of a sudden, things started going up. Musta been coincidence.

Andski you're not helping nullsec or high sec

shut the **** up

Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.

A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.

Billions, if not trillions of isk gets removed from the overall economy every time a FW faction gets T5, long term this creates deflation, it is not a difficult concept.

with CCP Diagoras gone

So? FW removes ISK from the economy. The Tier system doesn't alter the proportion of ISK to LP needed to extract LP, so all it does is change the amount of stuff that gets extracted for a given amount of ISK sunk. As it happens, because higher tiers increase the amount of *stuff* in the game by a larger amount for a given amount of ISK sunk, they're an even greater deflationary force than lower tiers.

Remember, Inflation is a relative increase in the money supply, so when more stuff enters the economy without bringing new ISK into the economy (or in FWs case, while removing ISK), a deflationary pressure is exterted.

You keep writing that but where did you get that information, or is it based on pure speculation?

https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras

Last post 2 weeks ago.

75% of the ISK sink though is reduced at tier 5. I wish we could see the real numbers but with CCP Diagoras gone any stats you make up are derived purely out of your arse. I do think in the short term we may be seeing large amoubts ISK being deleted but since the implant market is not that elastic over the long term LESS ISK will be taken out due to unchanged demand of most faction LP store items & the 75% ISK reduction of the sink at Tier 5

Your logic is flawed. Both give LP, but one is a sink, and one is a faucet?

And the previous post was 26 June. Thats an entire summer &counting so far that CCP has been tighter fisted with stats then Romney with his past 10 years of tax returns!

I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

fw plexing is isk sink it doesnt put isk into game but u use isk with lp to get items from lp store
fw missions gives isk but you put easly double that isk payout back into lp store

fw isk income is nothing compard to o.o moon goo income but with fw at least the grunts get the isk and not some egotastic o.o alliance leader

I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

6b a week is a Tech Moon.


Wait... no it isn't, it's FOUR Tech moons.

1 Three day alt = 4 Tech moons isn't "nothing compard to o.o moon goo income"

What was the moon goo income before?

It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.

Wts 3 day old fw farming alt will trade for two tech moons

im not saying it doesnt need balancing it clearly does what i said was dont kill it so guys fighting for militia cant make isk from it

Except for the part where the new AI will focus less on drones.

You should focus more on the truth and less on writing idiot ****.

Sigh, you guys spin so many lies you can't even read facts anymore.

Before : High Sec AI did not switch aggro once it was attached.
Winter patch: High sec AI will switch aggro so drones will be attacked.

Is this logic too hard for you, or are you stuck in liar mode?

How dare they improve your missions.

fw gives out about 300 million isk in 7 hours of work.

That means a bil a week easy

Sigh, you guys spin so many lies you can't even read facts anymore.

Before : High Sec AI did not switch aggro once it was attached.
Winter patch: High sec AI will switch aggro so drones will be attacked.

Is this logic too hard for you, or are you stuck in liar mode?

Sigh, you guys spin so many lies you can't even read facts anymore.

Before : High Sec AI did not switch aggro once it was attached.
Winter patch: High sec AI will switch aggro so drones will be attacked.

Is this logic too hard for you, or are you stuck in liar mode?

A blaster Naga can generate 90m-120m per hour in Guristas/Serpentis regions and a Vindicator can generate 120m-150m per hour, but those figures are basically with shield gank setups that die the moment anything sneezes at them (and yes, people shoot you in nullsec!) On the other hand, before the Escalation nerf to incursions, those income figures were achievable with T3/faction BS fleets and one guy I know had a Nightmare with a two slot tank and had no problem because they were ridiculously safe. Yet people want the Escalation changes reversed because it killed the incursion ~community~ or whatever.

According incursion nerf. I dont have problem with that. I was incursion runner too (and made nice isks there) but i agree that rewards were astronomical (for hisec). But why oh why they nerfed lowsec incursion too?. There is big cry that lowsec is nearly empty. Incursion community was/is large enough to go to lowsec and do them (and i remember that we were on some of them, we even encoutered you (goons) and it was quite fun. But for what reason should we go to lowsec incs when hisec incs are still more attractive than lowsec? Nerfing hisec and lowsec in same time is not the way how to attract more ppl to low.

I agree that lowsec incursions should have remained as they were, maybe with minor adjustments but not balancing them around being run with shiny faction BS. They are inherently much more dangerous since the gates have scramming rats and somebody can light a cyno on you the moment your fleet pops the mothership.

Honestly, I believe they should have been exclusive to lowsec since it was in serious need of something unique (and by that I don't mean broken FW sites that can be run in frigates)

How dare they improve your missions.

I hope everyone starts doing FW with this rediculous amount of income.

I hope everyone starts doing FW with this rediculous amount of income.

But its role as isk sink has been diminished due to greatly reduced LP store isk costs.

Also, I'll confirm that you can easily make 5b/week on a single account part-time AFK plexing using a 900k SP toon.

75% of the ISK sink though is reduced at tier 5. I wish we could see the real numbers but with CCP Diagoras gone any stats you make up are derived purely out of your arse. I do think in the short term we may be seeing large amoubts ISK being deleted but since the implant market is not that elastic over the long term LESS ISK will be taken out due to unchanged demand of most faction LP store items & the 75% ISK reduction of the sink at Tier 5

I think I can safely predict from these ~6months of ISK sink reductions we'll be seeing 3+ years worth of implants overstocked in the market which cost three quaters cheaper to 'make' then in any other LP store ( thus the ISK sink will be reduced from its average 6 trillion amonth reported by CCP Diagoras last February https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/174224813622181888
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html).

FW is currently broken, far more broken than it was before the "fix." CCP has put forward some solid ideas to actually fix it though I think there is tons of room for improvement in them.

Currently, FW is not an isk faucet since it does not generate significant amounts of isk (FW lvl4's do create a little, maybe 2M per mission). But its role as isk sink has been diminished due to greatly reduced LP store isk costs. Additionally, everything is so damn cheap at tier 5 that it makes any non-FW LP basically worthless. The only good bit of news here is the losing side of both fronts has greatly enhanced faction item values since FW LP can't buy them reasonably.

I feel the need to correct this very common misconception.

Tier level DOES NOT affect the isk/lp ratio sink.

Since the tier based cost savings affect both LP and ISK cost, the ratio remains constant regardless of tier. The only thing that changes is the number of items that are created.

Also, I'll confirm that you can easily make 5b/week on a single account part-time AFK plexing using a 900k SP toon.

When do faction tiers reach 5 anyway? They seem to be at lvl 1 most of them time (occasionally 2) from what I've seen.

I feel the need to correct this very common misconception.

Tier level DOES NOT affect the isk/lp ratio sink.

Since the tier based cost savings affect both LP and ISK cost, the ratio remains constant regardless of tier. The only thing that changes is the number of items that are created.

Also, I'll confirm that you can easily make 5b/week on a single account part-time AFK plexing using a 900k SP toon.

Your spouting about ratios is ridiculas. The isk reduction per item of each faction item adds up & there is no way demand will be able to catch up for years. Dr E is going to find out soon if he already hasnot that the 6 Trillion ISK a month LP sink is going to be halved or only three-quarters what it was last February starting I suspect mid February 2013 and lasting until 2014 or 2015 thanks to the plowing of the implant markets. It would have been worse if the Goons secretly sold off thier implant hord from thier 'exploight'
Dr E may have been talking about the needs for new ISK sinks last fanfest but what the DEVs did here is reduce a sink over the long term.

The only way that is possible is if people leave significant amounts of LP un-converted.

Each LP converted X ISK as soon as it's converted different Tiers do not change this. If the same total amount of LP is converted, the same total amount of ISK is sunk.

What happens to the products of that conversion do not matter when talking about ISK sinks.

Incorrect more faction items at 75% less of an ISK SINK are being flooded into a market without an increased demand for implants
There are not going to be that many more implants bought ( the implant market is not elastic even with cost savings) thus the ISK sink is reduced ~75% per purchase. Faction Ammo may be more elastic with corresponding cost savings butnowhere near the 75% reduction

Incorrect more faction items at 75% less of an ISK SINK are being flooded into a market without an increased demand for implants
There are not going to be that many more implants bought ( the implant market is not elastic even with cost savings) thus the ISK sink is reduced ~75% per purchase. Faction Ammo may be more elastic with corresponding cost savings butnowhere near the 75% reduction

[
I see you are one of those people who like to repeat things until they become true. Good luck with that.

Incorrect more faction items at 75% less of an ISK SINK are being flooded into a market without an increased demand for implants
There are not going to be that many more implants bought ( the implant market is not elastic even with cost savings) thus the ISK sink is reduced ~75% per purchase. Faction Ammo may be more elastic with corresponding cost savings butnowhere near the 75% reduction

Nah I'm not as good as those that lobbied for the NERFing of Incursions by saying it was the blame of all Inflation in all of Eve.

Actually you're right, the isk sink aspect doesn't change. A small brain fart on my part. That said, as noted there is a limited market for the stuff. Eventually FW LP will be worth absolutely nothing and at this rate, it won't take long for that to happen. And since FW LP is basically each races master LP, those winning factions will suffer greatly for a long time to come. But as said, this has boosted the non-FW LP for the losing factions a little. So there is an up shot for me personally.