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Balancing vs content

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bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:34:00 - [1] Dear devs please stop with the balancing already put the missiles back to how they were, then leave it alone, cause i think we are ALL getting bored of it what ever you do, you will never perfectly balance this game, because you will not of thought of every possible config for every possible ship, players will still find the " best" configs can we just have a "nearly" balanced eve? it was pretty close b4 u broke missiles the reason i am saying this is cause i would like to see more content, and at the rate you are going, we will get dreadnaughts in 2006 and jove in 2009..... its been nearly 2 years already since release and you are still balancing we (the players) i think would prefer content, and a nearly balanced eve (as opposed to tiny content and a perfectly balanced combat system) i played EnB b4 this, and i left that for lack of content, and they had a major story patch every month! you guys have done 2 big updates in 2 years and had 4 plot events (please dont include the ISD run things, thats volunteer organised). To me that equates to 1 piece of plot per 4 months (or $80), doesnt seem like good value does it? please, we pay to be play a game and be entertained! entertain us (and make cAKe a trades good so i can own ALL the cAKe) bubs Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Dezzyb0y	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:37:00 - [2] I second that, Good call. ----------------------- K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:39:00 - [3] hear hear
Arud	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:41:00 - [4] 1. Different people do balancing and new content, one groups can do programing and other not. 2. An attempt to balance need to be taken every now and then to keep the game interesting. Look at Diablo2 if they didnt change it then everyone would be powerplaying with the same set of characters. Same with eve, if you stop balancing (or shifting the balance) then everything will be stagnant, everyone uses what is best at each time.
EveJunkie	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:41:00 - [5] Edited by: EveJunkie on 04/03/2005 13:42:24 I agree totally with you there Bubs, Been playing since beta and it seems all the focus is on programming and game balance and just not enough is on content. The backstory is great but its so far removed for the actualy game experience we may as well not have it. We play this game pretty hardcore and make alot of our own content but that doesnt really cut it after a while. Yo can only form so many wars, fight so many battles, mine so much ore, build so many POS before you start to want a context for all of it. A few months ago we had a pretty well balanced game, sure there were some flaws but at least we were seeing lots of mixed fleets and fun was had. I gave up on PvP once they borke the missiles and alot of people I used to PvP with are the same. Theres no way to really balance everything in game, just get on with giving us the story we've been waiting YEARS for! If you want to sort most of the overpowering flaws just sort out the stacking of damage mods and be done with it. All this fiddling and tweaking at the detrement of content and "stuff" to do is getting old.
Arud	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:42:00 - [6] though more contant and most importantly of all a speedier storyline would be great though
Verone	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:50:00 - [7] hey guys, i have to agree... i wrote This yesterday, just wondering if you're talking about the same thing COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Verone hey guys, i have to agree... i wrote This yesterday, just wondering if you're talking about the same thing basically yes - i wanna see all the content thats been prommised by the back story and i'm bored to death of the balancing Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Alicomb	Posted - 2005.03.04 14:16:00 - [9] Content over balacing. Bug Fixing over balacing.
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2005.03.04 14:48:00 - [10] They've **** up to many things to drop balancing for content atm.... Pain is meant to be felt**
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.03.04 14:52:00 - [11] All these explanations and blogs from Oveur and still these threads pop up all over the place. I just don't understand you guys sometimes Mai's Idealog
Matthew	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:12:00 - [12] Mmm, the question I have here, is do you truly want more "content", as in new ships/modules etc, or do you really want more plot events? The plot can be developed and advanced, and interesting events devised without the need for any new "content"....a good plot should work within what exists in-game to enhance the experience, rather than as an excuse to introduce the latest shiny new toy. The trouble with adding events and backstory like that is it's hard to make it meaningful enough for those that want it, while not overly impacting those that want nothing to do with it.
Novarei	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:39:00 - [13] i know both teams are different, content and balance, it would be nice to have some more interactive sotryline to the eve universe. +--------------------------------------------+
hitech redneck	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:43:00 - [14] I would like to see all the content that was promised for exodus added, things fixed like corp tax and corp managment before all these nerfs or so called balancing is done
Moadyb	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:54:00 - [15] Word man, agree 100%. Could not have said it better.
Oveur	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:04:00 - [16] Originally by: MaiLina KaTar All these explanations and blogs from Oveur and still these threads pop up all over the place. I just don't understand you guys sometimes You don't know how much it pleases me to see you say that I suggest people do as he suggests and see that many things can be done at the same time. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:15:00 - [17] Edited by: bUBbLeS on 04/03/2005 16:21:16 Edited by: bUBbLeS on 04/03/2005 16:19:32 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: MaiLina KaTar All these explanations and blogs from Oveur and still these threads pop up all over the place. I just don't understand you guys sometimes You don't know how much it pleases me to see you say that I suggest people do as he suggests and see that many things can be done at the same time. i think you might just of hit the nail on the head there.... i have read your posts, and my point still stands i hear CCP is now in profit,so maybe you need to get some more people.please dont take this a "i'm trying to tell you how to do your job" post. To be brutaly honest your staffing issues are nothing to do with the playerbase and your deliverable of entertainment. If your to busy to deliver then get more people, dont give us excuses. i'm just saying imho that we would prefer content with an unbalanced combat system than a stagnant game with a perfect combat system, and that we really like the idea and back story and would like to see it progress cAKe Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:18:00 - [18] I concur Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
EveJunkie	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:19:00 - [19] as do i
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:25:00 - [20] Yes, because as we all know all the multiplayer games that have stood the test of time all had content over balancing. No wait, they didn't! Counterstrike, Starcraft, etc, all had perfect balance (or almost, anyway) and no new content, and they're still played today. Ok, so you don't have to pay sub fees for those games but my point still stands - Balance > Content. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Arud	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Nero Scuro Yes, because as we all know all the multiplayer games that have stood the test of time all had content over balancing. No wait, they didn't! Counterstrike, Starcraft, etc, all had perfect balance (or almost, anyway) and no new content, and they're still played today. Ok, so you don't have to pay sub fees for those games but my point still stands - Balance > Content. it is very very very rare that developers manage to balance a multiplayer game, expecialy if they are also constantly adding more content
Faramir	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:27:00 - [22] And I do too. I remember posts where all departments do their own thing, but still the caldari race and the gall event were postponed for a long time.... the few events we get... and they get pushed back and forgotten. Kind of sad. Only newspiece you see now and then is about quafe in stores, but you see none or hardly any about Tech II releases.... Priorities and more content with the stories plz?
Faramir	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Nero Scuro Yes, because as we all know all the multiplayer games that have stood the test of time all had content over balancing. No wait, they didn't! Counterstrike, Starcraft, etc, all had perfect balance (or almost, anyway) and no new content, and they're still played today. Ok, so you don't have to pay sub fees for those games but my point still stands - Balance > Content. and these games were MMORPG'S??? really now?
Arud	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Faramir And I do too. I remember posts where all departments do their own thing, but still the caldari race and the gall event were postponed for a long time.... the few events we get... and they get pushed back and forgotten. Kind of sad. Only newspiece you see now and then is about quafe in stores, but you see none or hardly any about Tech II releases.... Priorities and more content with the stories plz? yeah, ccp could add a few people to their content team
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Nero Scuro Yes, because as we all know all the multiplayer games that have stood the test of time all had content over balancing. No wait, they didn't! Counterstrike, Starcraft, etc, all had perfect balance (or almost, anyway) and no new content, and they're still played today. Ok, so you don't have to pay sub fees for those games but my point still stands - Balance > Content. errrm your examples are not MMPORG... MMPORG need plot and backgrounds, not new maps... and CS + starcraft both had huge amounts of new content (maps/missions etc) and CS was constantly rebalanced until v1 (i played from beta 2) Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
GeneralD	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:35:00 - [26] Its not that we have'nt read the Blogs. Weve seen the Graphs and Charts and Read about how the map needs to be changed. The information is certainly there, the point is we DONT AGREE with it and this is the only way to let our views be known. CCP has a responsibility to manage it's company so it can continue to make a profit for its investors or shareholders. And someone with in the company has to have a vision of "if we nerf the weapons" more people will subscribe and we can make more profit. Because without profit there is no game for anyone. All the players can do is to cope with what ever changes they make even if we dont agree with them. It would be nice if there was some way to vote on them and we could all bow to the will of the majority but I dont see that system in place. Right now the only way we can vote is with our check books when we cancel because the game is no longer fun to play. But I think that is a long way off for me personally. It is fundamentally a great game and the devs should be given a pat on the back for creating it. GeneralD
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:38:00 - [27] Originally by: GeneralD Its not that we have'nt read the Blogs. Weve seen the Graphs and Charts and Read about how the map needs to be changed. The information is certainly there, the point is we DONT AGREE with it and this is the only way to let our views be known. CCP has a responsibility to manage it's company so it can continue to make a profit for its investors or shareholders. And someone with in the company has to have a vision of "if we nerf the weapons" more people will subscribe and we can make more profit. Because without profit there is no game for anyone. All the players can do is to cope with what ever changes they make even if we dont agree with them. It would be nice if there was some way to vote on them and we could all bow to the will of the majority but I dont see that system in place. Right now the only way we can vote is with our check books when we cancel because the game is no longer fun to play. But I think that is a long way off for me personally. It is fundamentally a great game and the devs should be given a pat on the back for creating it. GeneralD well said - the point i'm making is to keep and expand thier profit base that maybe content(story lineetc) should come first over getting a perfect game balance Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:45:00 - [28] Originally by: bUBbLeS Dear devs please stop with the balancing already put the missiles back to how they were, then leave it alone, cause i think we are ALL getting bored of it what ever you do, you will never perfectly balance this game, because you will not of thought of every possible config for every possible ship, players will still find the " best" configs can we just have a "nearly" balanced eve? it was pretty close b4 u broke missiles the reason i am saying this is cause i would like to see more content, and at the rate you are going, we will get dreadnaughts in 2006 and jove in 2009..... its been nearly 2 years already since release and you are still balancing we (the players) i think would prefer content, and a nearly balanced eve (as opposed to tiny content and a perfectly balanced combat system) i played EnB b4 this, and i left that for lack of content, and they had a major story patch every month! you guys have done 2 big updates in 2 years and had 4 plot events (please dont include the ISD run things, thats volunteer organised). To me that equates to 1 piece of plot per 4 months (or $80), doesnt seem like good value does it? please, we pay to be play a game and be entertained! entertain us (and make cAKe a trades good so i can own ALL the cAKe) bubs well this is a PvP game... and honestly it seems like you are looking for a PvE game... if so you failed to choose the right game since EVE is a total PVP oriented game and always will be... it has been said several times ... so NO I'm all for balancing this game first keep up the good work ccp Greetings Grim
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Grim Vandal Originally by: bUBbLeS Dear devs please stop with the balancing already put the missiles back to how they were, then leave it alone, cause i think we are ALL getting bored of it what ever you do, you will never perfectly balance this game, because you will not of thought of every possible config for every possible ship, players will still find the " best" configs can we just have a "nearly" balanced eve? it was pretty close b4 u broke missiles the reason i am saying this is cause i would like to see more content, and at the rate you are going, we will get dreadnaughts in 2006 and jove in 2009..... its been nearly 2 years already since release and you are still balancing we (the players) i think would prefer content, and a nearly balanced eve (as opposed to tiny content and a perfectly balanced combat system) i played EnB b4 this, and i left that for lack of content, and they had a major story patch every month! you guys have done 2 big updates in 2 years and had 4 plot events (please dont include the ISD run things, thats volunteer organised). To me that equates to 1 piece of plot per 4 months (or $80), doesnt seem like good value does it? please, we pay to be play a game and be entertained! entertain us (and make cAKe a trades good so i can own ALL the cAKe) bubs well this is a PvP game... and honestly it seems like you are looking for a PvE game... if so you failed to choose the right game since EVE is a total PVP oriented game and always will be... it has been said several times ... so NO I'm all for balancing this game first keep up the good work ccp /me looks at his employment history.... yeah i've dont the PvP (was a director of Evolution for 18 months)and PvE thang.... and they are Both in the game i just think we need more content to fight our wars in like an amarr/minnie conflict? a jove invasion? thargoids ffs? Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
GreyMana	Posted - 2005.03.04 16:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Faramir the few events we get... and they get pushed back and forgotten. Kind of sad. Only newspiece you see now and then is about quafe in stores, but you see none or hardly any about Tech II releases.... Priorities and more content with the stories plz? I'll agree with that, as I started eve I had the feeling that the universe lives (Amarr Championship, some Main story events), but now it seems that the storyline vanished completly and the events are mostly small, not connected events. This is not an exciting world to play in it.

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