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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1229
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:05:00 -
[121] - Quote
Angmar Udate wrote:So if I understand right: Ban: Oneiros, Ban: Guardian - you effectively banned armor fleets?
45 minutes before match start is really little time to switch and modify your concept.
Obviously teams will have to have multiple different setups practiced and ready to go, or some other way to handle substituting equal-ish ships into their game plan.
You know about the possibility now - start planning so you can execute easily within 45 minutes.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Servant's Lord
Nitsujsoft Enterprises
12
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Bro wrote:Servant's Lord wrote:So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?
IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char? You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot.
You mention the reason for 20 plex being "to ensure that bidding teams are serious for a good tournament."
Why wouldn't a simple deposit be enough?
Considering the laughable value of the prizes(the only thing special about them is the fact that it's RL cash - 6k$=200b or so....AT winners get 50 run BPCs for AT ships valued on the CHEAP end at 20b...1tril easy).
You are giving out 10k in prizes, along with a "free" 4th place prize of isk(you can literally generate this out of nothing, and considering the small amount it won't do anything to the ingame economy). Assuming each winning team puts up on average 25 plex you're looking at something in excess of $12k.
Why are we the players being forced to fund our own prizes, DESPITE you making a profit of $2k AND advertising profits?
This doesn't seem to make much sense to me - it seems more like a blatant money grab.
I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as.
-Servant's Lord |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
890
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:35:00 -
[123] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:
Mate sit back and relax.
You really think everyone will be paying ccp to buy plex? Of course there will be a lot, but some will use in game isk. So that 19k figure you give is unrealistic.
Also, like you admit some would pay just for the sheer fun / fame of it. Im just happy they are promoting eve at all.
Btw 8man teams right? So you assume all eight people will pull in together to get the plex :P thats not unmanageable for a hell of a lot of players.
If you are determined you will get into this.
The $19,000 or more that this is aimed at generating will come from PLEX. It doesn't matter who pays for it or not, someone paid for it somewhere. I'm not saying that the tournament players will pay out of pocket for this. It seems like this is like those people that don't realize PLEX is paid for by other players...
Thanks to another reference in another post :: http://www.d-esports.com/7028/eve-alliance-tournament-x-second-32-slots-almost-filled-no-hydra-or-outbreak/
Quote:Adding the 320 from the lottery, the total PLEX spent comes to 1289. Just over -ú19k in value, with an average of -ú307/team across the 63 entries.
19,000 pounds is a lot more like $23,000. So, my thoughts as to the estimated value of a tournament to the player base isn't that far off (i dont know what the player perceived value of this tournament will be, but given that 10 of the teams are under the 20 plex mark...)
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
336
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:47:00 -
[124] - Quote
it is kinda sad that there is no special ship as a prize :(
especially with the v3 project, I heard it is extremely easy compared to the past to make a custom skin once the pre work is done. And with fozzie bringing ship balancing to a whole new level, it can't be difficult to find some interesting bonus ideas |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2051
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:50:00 -
[125] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:it is kinda sad that there is no special ship as a prize :(
especially with the v3 project, I heard it is extremely easy compared to the past to make a custom skin once the pre work is done. And with fozzie bringing ship balancing to a whole new level, it can't be difficult to find some interesting bonus ideas
We're going to be keeping the different tournaments separate. The ships will still be part of the alliance tournament, while this format will have other goodies.
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Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
111
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Posted - 2012.09.28 18:52:00 -
[126] - Quote
This will be fun to watch. The bans are a clever innovation. With each captain able to ban two ships, you can wipe out some entire ship classes if so inclined.
I'm surprised that it's even remarkable that CCP hopes to bring in more money than they pay out. That's how lotteries and raffles raise money, as well. After expenses, it probably won't even be that much.
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OldDirtyBasterd
Creative Export Black Pearl Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:11:00 -
[127] - Quote
Will this tournament take place after the winter expansion or before it ?!? If so would t1 logi go under cruiser 7 points Vs the full 13 points. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
780
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
OldDirtyBasterd wrote:Will this tournament take place after the winter expansion or before it ?!? If so would t1 logi go under cruiser 7 points Vs the full 13 points. Before
Quote: Saturday, November 17 and Sunday November 18
Saturday, November 24 and Sunday, November 25
Saturday, December 1 and Sunday, December 2 |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1229
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:CCP Bro wrote:Servant's Lord wrote:So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?
IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char? You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot. I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as. -Servant's Lord
Entry fee - not entry to bid. Go try the reading thing again. You pay only if your bid is one of the 32 winners.
TBH, I think a lot of you here are ignoring all the costs involved in running this tournament, just to ***** and moan about how the prizes aren't as good as the Alliance Tourney.
Guess what - THIS ISN'T THE ALLIANCE TOURNEY.
That's the big one, with the big prizes and stuff. This one is *A* tournament, with cash prizes, that anyone (rich enough) can enter, and you can cherry pick your teams.
Running a live broadcast requires just a wee bit more investment in time, people and equipment than your average Youtube video or roaming live feed. Nobody puts on tournaments for free - not Little League Baseball, not e-games, not football (whatever version), not the Olympics and not autosports. It's all done for love of the game(s) and mostly for money.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Celebris Nexterra
Lowsec Static No Remorse.
53
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:16:00 -
[130] - Quote
I agree with several other posters that it is important whether or not this tourney will take place before or after the winter expansion (ship balancing and all that). But the tourney will start in less than 2 months from this day, and I would imagine the winter expansion will not be out yet, especially considering it can still be called the "winter" expansion in Jan and Feb. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2051
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:47:00 -
[131] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:This will be fun to watch. The bans are a clever innovation. With each captain able to ban two ships, you can wipe out some entire ship classes if so inclined.
I'm surprised that it's even remarkable that CCP hopes to bring in more money than they pay out. That's how lotteries and raffles raise money, as well. After expenses, it probably won't even be that much.
Our tournament fees aren't really made to bring in money, as much as "let's cover our costs". |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1011
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Posted - 2012.09.28 19:59:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP is having a PLEX sale! Stock up to fund your bid! http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Kumq uat
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
97
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:37:00 -
[133] - Quote
One thing I will suggest is that if you plan to hold these tourneys more often as a type of e-sport, especially if you plan a final round that is a best of five, etc, that you not run the tourney on Tranquility but instead create a shard for it. You can still run the actual AT on Tranq and all of that but if you plan on doing these often enough and to have so many rounds of spaceship explosions it makes sense to have your teams running on a different server. Just throwing my two cents out there. |
Kumq uat
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
97
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:38:00 -
[134] - Quote
Fail post |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
1511
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Posted - 2012.09.28 21:16:00 -
[135] - Quote
After reading through the thread I just have to say that War Kitten absolutely gets it. If you have not read her posts then please do.
We in the tournament team are breaking new ground and EVE tournaments are now monetized. This is a big deal. Who knows how far we can bring this, and believe me, we have big plans.
We understand that EVE, probably more than most MMO's, is the ultimate competitive game. EVE tournaments are not about having the best gear but having the best strategies, the best set ups and, most importantly, the best players. With a solid team set up you guys can potentially start looking at corporate sponsorships in the future and can compete with other eSports.
We are putting our toe in the water with this tournament but everyone in CCP concerned with tournaments understand how big this can become and we want you to come along and be part of it.
Our goal is to grow tournaments to a whole new level and incorporate every class of player possible. This is not going to happen today or tomorrow but I can assure you that we are planning to include as many players as possible.
Let's host this tournament and see how it goes and see how we can make tournaments bigger and better in the future and how we can include lots more players. CCP Navigator -Community Manager |
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
670
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Posted - 2012.09.28 21:24:00 -
[136] - Quote
I like money.
This is a big step for EVE, very exciting. Our little baby is all grown up!
Also, someone recruit my broke ass lol "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
473
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Posted - 2012.09.28 21:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:We in the tournament team are breaking new ground and EVE tournaments are now monetized. This is a big deal. Who knows how far we can bring this, and believe me, we have big plans.
Perhaps the next step is to have companies sponsor this event instead of players with plex. We already had advertising in the last tournament, just not for the sponsor but alliances instead.
20k (or whatever this costs in plex) is pocket change for a big hardware manufacturer.
Everyone benefits that way: EVE players get more amazing tournaments, the game gets good publicity and esports flair which mans more subscribers, and the sponsors get good advertising. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1235
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Posted - 2012.09.28 22:57:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Bro wrote:Yes there will be commentators but they will be from CCP. I hope the man formerly know as Raivi (CCP Fozzie) will be commentating. He was the best damned player commentator you've had.
Caldari Militia |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
1513
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:00:00 -
[139] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP Bro wrote:Yes there will be commentators but they will be from CCP. I hope the man formerly know as Raivi (CCP Fozzie) will be commentating. He was the best damned player commentator you've had.
Then you are totally in luck
CCP Navigator -Community Manager |
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Servant's Lord
Nitsujsoft Enterprises
13
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:10:00 -
[140] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Servant's Lord wrote:CCP Bro wrote:Servant's Lord wrote:So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?
IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char? You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot. I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as. -Servant's Lord Entry fee - not entry to bid. Go try the reading thing again. You pay only if your bid is one of the 32 winners. TBH, I think a lot of you here are ignoring all the costs involved in running this tournament, just to ***** and moan about how the prizes aren't as good as the Alliance Tourney. Guess what - THIS ISN'T THE ALLIANCE TOURNEY. That's the big one, with the big prizes and stuff. This one is *A* tournament, with cash prizes, that anyone (rich enough) can enter, and you can cherry pick your teams. Running a live broadcast requires just a wee bit more investment in time, people and equipment than your average Youtube video or roaming live feed. Nobody puts on tournaments for free - not Little League Baseball, not e-games, not football (whatever version), not the Olympics and not autosports. It's all done for love of the game(s) and mostly for money.
Please re-read my comment before making ill informed counterarguments.
I state quite clearly that the 32 winning bids @ 25 plex each(assuming an average bid of that).
Let me show you this in simple math, using small words.
32 winning teams. 25 plex per time. Assume $15 per plex(it is in fact more).
32*25*15=12,000
Now onto your next statement - if this is in fact just *A* tournament why is the minimum bid literally twice as much as THE ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT *trumpets and fanfare*?
I could perhaps understand if it was only 10 plex minimum bid (like the alliance tournament), but asking for a minimum bid of DOUBLE the amount for what is apparently the premier tournament, while offering around 1/5 the overall prize value(more like 1/10 as a total of 100 AT ships are given out) seems rather laughable.
CCP's stated reason was "What we do have is a cost of entry in order to ensure that those who are stating they wish to compete have enough skin in the game to take it seriously."
I can understand making people put up 20+ plex as a "cost of entry" that is completely nonrefundable should any shenanigans occur and to keep the riff-raff out, but simply taking that and keeping it does nothing to lend credibility; instead it makes this come off to informed individuals as some sort of bizarre money grab.
If us EVE players wanted to put up the cash for our own tournament, we would. I know of several individuals wealthy enough to host a tournament like this with the same rules - only difference being THEY would make the advertising money and extra $2k value in isk/plex, rather than CCP.
Your third point - that is correct, but it is funded by companies paying for advertising, or the individuals putting it on take value in the publicity it brings them or their product.
In the Olympics, Michael Phelps isn't told he needs to pay for the part of the swimming pool he wants to swim in out of pocket - that's paid for by the host country for the Olympics, often with funds generated from sponsors such as Panasonic for instance.
-Servant's Lord |
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Siobhan MacLeary
BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno
19
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:14:00 -
[141] - Quote
Eiluvial wrote:Sorry but the entrance format is ****.
What stops an entity from registering 32 teams to RMT 10000$ legally?
Because, you driveling idiot, they'd be banned from the competition for having multiple accounts/characters on multiple teams and would win absolutely nothing. Frankly, they'd likely be banned from EVE itself, too.
EDIT: I'm assuming "entity" refers to one single person, not a group of people. |
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CCP Bro
C C P C C P Alliance
20
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:This will be fun to watch. The bans are a clever innovation. With each captain able to ban two ships, you can wipe out some entire ship classes if so inclined.
I'm surprised that it's even remarkable that CCP hopes to bring in more money than they pay out. That's how lotteries and raffles raise money, as well. After expenses, it probably won't even be that much.
Like Soundwave said, we don't plan on this bringing in money. Most of the comments here don't factor in how much a full scale production costs.
We want this to be engaging content for the community. If you compete or not, we want you to have fun! |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1012
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:37:00 -
[143] - Quote
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:Eiluvial wrote:Sorry but the entrance format is ****.
What stops an entity from registering 32 teams to RMT 10000$ legally?
Because, you driveling idiot, they'd be banned from the competition for having multiple accounts/characters on multiple teams and would win absolutely nothing. Frankly, they'd likely be banned from EVE itself, too. EDIT: I'm assuming "entity" refers to one single person, not a group of people. I think he meant an alliance enters 32 teams so they can RMT their moon goo isk. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Radgette
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Illusion of Solitude
8
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Posted - 2012.09.29 01:00:00 -
[144] - Quote
the reason "esports" work in these other games is that the winner is decided by skill and strategy.
unless you plan on giving every entrant an all 5's character how can you say it's a fair match, all those little 2%'s and 5%'s add up, especially on things like falloff, mwd speed to name but a few.
so you could be a pretty good pvper but your hampered by time spent subbed to eve. which also comes into the plex to enter equasion altho you can just buy isk and plex you can't buy SP ( yes ofc you could buy a char on the bazaar ), but that once again makes the competition only for the rich ingame or out of game
yes ofc you want to make it a good show, but wheres the tournaments for the not so rich or old eve characters :P |
Kumq uat
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
98
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Posted - 2012.09.29 01:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
Radgette wrote:the reason "esports" work in these other games is that the winner is decided by skill and strategy.
unless you plan on giving every entrant an all 5's character how can you say it's a fair match, all those little 2%'s and 5%'s add up, especially on things like falloff, mwd speed to name but a few.
so you could be a pretty good pvper but your hampered by time spent subbed to eve. which also comes into the plex to enter equasion altho you can just buy isk and plex you can't buy SP ( yes ofc you could buy a char on the bazaar ), but that once again makes the competition only for the rich ingame or out of game
yes ofc you want to make it a good show, but wheres the tournaments for the not so rich or old eve characters :P
Make your own with a sp cap. Maybe CCP can make one as like a halftime show. Like pee-wee football played at half time in a pro game. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1176
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Posted - 2012.09.29 01:25:00 -
[146] - Quote
I think this is an awesome idea. Just awesome.
You know what we need now, right? A 23/7 EvE streaming TV station that you can pipe into your captains quarters.
It's going to happen. Wait and see.
Think about how many DUST players would come into EvE if they were watching EvE tournaments in there dirty ground pounder quarters.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
88
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Posted - 2012.09.29 02:48:00 -
[147] - Quote
This is only really cool untill you crunch the numbers
We can assume that a winning team has 20-24 players taking some part in this tournament through theory crafting and practicing and so forth..
So in the end the price would be 6000/20 - tax = :(
I just don't think this is enough of an incentive for corps to throw all those plexes into it and all that effort for that, it hardly seems worth it.
I love the idea but, i just don't think this will produce anything near the AT level of competition. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
894
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Posted - 2012.09.29 03:24:00 -
[148] - Quote
Radgette wrote:the reason "esports" work in these other games is that the winner is decided by skill and strategy.
unless you plan on giving every entrant an all 5's character how can you say it's a fair match, all those little 2%'s and 5%'s add up, especially on things like falloff, mwd speed to name but a few.
so you could be a pretty good pvper but your hampered by time spent subbed to eve. which also comes into the plex to enter equasion altho you can just buy isk and plex you can't buy SP ( yes ofc you could buy a char on the bazaar ), but that once again makes the competition only for the rich ingame or out of game
yes ofc you want to make it a good show, but wheres the tournaments for the not so rich or old eve characters :P
If you missed the message... the entry cost is 20B ISK.
If you can afford 20B ISK, then you're probably in a situation where your skill points is an issue.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
780
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Posted - 2012.09.29 03:54:00 -
[149] - Quote
inb4 forum rage. Wish i was good and won some money, $1000 would = new computer and thus more eve, maybe even another account |
WarpToMe AtZero
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.29 04:01:00 -
[150] - Quote
I'll just put this here from reddit/r/eve ...
DeadGuyAle: Because this is an auction for a slot to play, 20 Plex is the minimum bid. So if you are rich you are assured a spot to play. Every tournament we have run in the past has focused on Alliances and has, for better or worse, excluded a vast portion of EVE players who are members of player and NPC corporations. By having this an auction and not a lottery, they are still excluding a vast portion of EVE players. Why not auction off 28 spots and lottery off the last 4. (Or some other number, Call them wild cards) That way the space rich get in and those who are good but living in a cardboard box in a station get a chance also. Just my .02 Isk.
Femaref Been that way the last time as well and there have been enough small alliances that participated.
danzilla007 Lotteries are no bueno. Auctions assure that those who actually get in are serious about it, and deliver on those expectations. I think most people understand that while it may seem unfair to only allow the space rich, the reality is that tournament play requires the participants to be space-rich in order to put on a good show.
DeadGuyAle That just sounds elitist....I'm not asking for all slots be a lottery.... Hell not even half. If you have the ISK cool you get to play. If not ... Go screw yourself. Right? that's what you are saying. 20 plex if you win a lottery spot is to much to ask to get the common man in. By doing an auction ONLY they are excluding a vast portion of the EVE population. ONLY the rich will be able to participate. But its nice to know only the space rich can put on a good show. Heaven forbid an underdog play with the blue bloods. Let them eat CAKE.... Ohhh and I am space ehhhh .. And would get the same result undocking in Jita with 20 plex in a rookie ship,(blown up and out 20 plex) so I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just calling it as I see it. CCP is sucking up Plexs, own3d.tv sucking up advertising dollars and the common EVE player is just sucking it. Or just **** out of luck. |
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