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Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.28 09:21:00 - [121] Originally by: Forever Alone wouldn't it be cool to see a fleet of cruisers? if cruisers rocked and people chose them to PvP with, then more people would join in, cause it'd be much cheaper than battleships, so more people would want to join the fun I would settle for seeing any cruisers tbh. I've been in catch all day and all i've seen is bs, frigs and some mining cruisers (ospreys). Sigh ________________________________________________________
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.03.28 09:38:00 - [122] The ideas in this thread seem well-founded and supported by data, so I'd have to agree and /sign. Cruisers need to be bumped towards frigates a bit in terms of agility and tracking. They should fall squarely between frigates and battleships in terms of their effectiveness. This means that frigates should be x amount more agile than cruisers, and cruisers should be x amount more agile than battleships. Same goes for their turret tracking speeds. Also, I'd like to see Assault Ships be a bit more agile as well. I know they've got Tech II gear and junk on them and are supposed to be a bit more sluggish, but being the high-technology ships they are, why do they have to be so much slower than their low-technology counterparts? I'd be willing to deal with a small hit to their manuverability compared to Tech I frigs but nothing as severe as they currently are. Same goes for HACs. They may be toting more technology but the ship should be built to handle it appropriately. In general, I'd have to agree that the Devs could definately tidy up agility and mass issues on Cruisers and Tech II ships. Cruisers should be part of a smooth curve in agility from frigate to battleship, and Tech II ships should be just slightly less agile than their Tech I predecessors. Lets do it Devs! Sounds like a good plan to me.
Missa	Posted - 2005.03.28 11:37:00 - [123] Yes, please give crusiers more agility. I think assault frigs could use like 10% more too. --Missa New Siggy to Come Soon(tm)
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2005.03.28 12:13:00 - [124] Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 28/03/2005 12:13:18 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, we could always reintroduce dual MWDs. It's not like they were hard to counter, and it was fun to fly them. Add to that that is made them actually usefull... Heh, according to Oveur and probably all the noobs that complained about them, dual AB/MWD Cruisers were close to invulnerable ... CCP tried to fix something which, as Elve said, was easy to counter and not only managed to nerf the cruisers back to Pre Castor status but they brought about even more blobage as cruiser pilots switched to BSs again. Pain is meant to be felt
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.03.28 12:42:00 - [125] I'm currently using a cruiser. Whilst it's a competent ship, I still feel it's just a 'stepping stone' to BS/BC. My frigates, I'll probably hang on to. The cruiser I don't think'd get a backwards glance.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.28 20:19:00 - [126] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 28/03/2005 12:13:18 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, we could always reintroduce dual MWDs. It's not like they were hard to counter, and it was fun to fly them. Add to that that is made them actually usefull... Heh, according to Oveur and probably all the noobs that complained about them, dual AB/MWD Cruisers were close to invulnerable ... CCP tried to fix something which, as Elve said, was easy to counter and not only managed to nerf the cruisers back to Pre Castor status but they brought about even more blobage as cruiser pilots switched to BSs again. The fact that cruisers were only usefull with dual ab/mwd just shows how broken they are. I for one am glad we don't have ruptures going 7km/s anymore, it was retarded. ________________________________________________________
Malena	Posted - 2005.03.28 22:57:00 - [127] Dedicated cruiser pilot myself, just like a lot of the people here, so yes, I guess you can call me a glutton for punishment... I have lived through the proj nerf, the speed nerf (it was a terrible solution to an isolated problem, and I never even used the dual AB/MWD on my cruisers, just my industrials) the agility nerf, and have been watching the proposed changes to cruiser HPs with great interest. (terrible balance issues on that one, but the idea is right) This thread is definitely something I would like to the devs to read, and it goes very well with the support cruiser thread. So, please add my name to the list of people who want cruisers to get some lovin (third bonus?) of some kind, and would especially appreciate more agility.
Sorja	Posted - 2005.03.29 03:50:00 - [128] The problem is to know whether the devs want cruisers to be usefull or just stepstones for newbies. Are we waisting our time with this discussion, or do they acknowledge there is a problem and intend to fix it ?
Demangel	Posted - 2005.03.29 10:18:00 - [129] Takes out a great big stamp with signature on it, the stamp is about 1230m3 and has a great big middle finger on one side aimed at iceland SIGNED! I have been playing EVE off and on since release, sufficive to say I don't fly, or even have the skills for a BS, why? I'm not into them, if I wanted a BS I would have ten by now, but I love frigates and cruisers. Frigates have become a utility class at best, not much real point in even having high slots (well thats how it feels sometimes anyway). Any kills we get are on pods, other frigs, or last shotting a main target with a lucky 75MM round or equivalent cackles. My cruiser? Crap I fly arguably the best cruiser thats not a BB in the game (Thorax) and I'm still garbage. And don't get me started on my Jay Leno lookalike winner of a gimped nerfed POS. In testing it WAS overpowered, but once again the nerf bat of happy abandon was swung by the high council of debuff lords, and it's barely suitable is a cruiser killer. At least I don't get laughed at when I bring my thorax, just a little pittied... Thats another thing, gallente ships need luv, if you don't fly them don't post anything contrary I'm sick of hearing it. missiles are still BROKEN! Fix those children of satan and I might not even whine about gallente sucking because I'll be flying my Thorax and maybe evcen Brutix into something it can live through... Give us the agility and mass fix we need as well, and then I think the game will have some resemblance of ship class balance, and you can focus on race balance after, with a VERY delicate touch, because once missiles get fixed, and cruisers and BC's get a bit of a luv buff, I think Amarr will be next on the block (assuming the pulse nerf isn't enough), but even then i don't think it will be so bad. I know nobody cares, but does anyone have ANY idea how long I have been patient and argued for changes like these? Ie Missiles fixed (Where do I begin... Lets just say they are 100% crap broken unless your the one shooting them). Drones fixed (Maybe they have been, but I still think heavies should do crap against frigs, and only ok against cruisers, and so on down the line... Point? Make them more like turrets in thier ability to hit, and then just a bit better... Ie heavies still hit cruisers better than L guns, etc but not as well as medium drones do, and while we're at it... REPAIR BUG ANYONE!?). Cruiser and BC love all around: this class is crap, and asside for thorax are a joke for Gallente... Thorax being more of a gambling mans ship (you win a little you lose a little). SIGNED SIGNED SIGNED! Again sorry for the rant theme to this post, but it has been two years! and about a YEAR since these more recent issues really started being obvious (missiles etc). Do you have any idea what SHOULD have been balanced by now? We SHOULD be talking tweaks right now, not needing major overhauls to central points of game PVP balance like we need to do still! THATS why I keep quitting... some day CCP will get this right... Probably just in time for EVE II, the quest for more ISK... Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.03.29 11:57:00 - [130] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 28/03/2005 12:13:18 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, we could always reintroduce dual MWDs. It's not like they were hard to counter, and it was fun to fly them. Add to that that is made them actually usefull... Heh, according to Oveur and probably all the noobs that complained about them, dual AB/MWD Cruisers were close to invulnerable ... CCP tried to fix something which, as Elve said, was easy to counter and not only managed to nerf the cruisers back to Pre Castor status but they brought about even more blobage as cruiser pilots switched to BSs again. The dual AB/MWD cruiser was the only way to make cruisers generally useful in PVP. It was stupid. Speed as a primary defence should be the domain of frigates. --------------------------------------------------
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.29 18:03:00 - [131] ________________________________________________________
akim	Posted - 2005.03.29 22:07:00 - [132] Originally by: theRaptor Originally by: Juan Andalusian Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 28/03/2005 12:13:18 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, we could always reintroduce dual MWDs. It's not like they were hard to counter, and it was fun to fly them. Add to that that is made them actually usefull... Heh, according to Oveur and probably all the noobs that complained about them, dual AB/MWD Cruisers were close to invulnerable ... CCP tried to fix something which, as Elve said, was easy to counter and not only managed to nerf the cruisers back to Pre Castor status but they brought about even more blobage as cruiser pilots switched to BSs again. The dual AB/MWD cruiser was the only way to make cruisers generally useful in PVP. It was stupid. Speed as a primary defence should be the domain of frigates. The frigs could benefit from the same type of setup. But right or not, taking it away left the cruisers for dead. And to a degree T1 frigs aswell. Instead of just blindly nerfing it. The devs should've spend 2 minutes to considder why such a setup was needed. And tried to fix what was broken, in conjuction with nerfing the dual mwd/ab. Personally I don't agree with the dual nerf. It was easily counterable, and you dedicated 80-90% of you ships resources to fit it. Leaving you with no tank and small guns on the cruiser... Cruisers were actualy viable PvP as heavy tacklers or anti-tacklers. And they most certainly were not invincible as claimed by the whiners back when it got nerfed. It was a cost effective alternative to an inty. And that's what hurt people. That a cruiser could kill their precious inty. Infact the same people have been whining ever since, everytime ANYTHING can kill their inty. Well, anyways.. It's gone now. So let the cruisers get som looooove. They need it bad!
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.03.30 03:29:00 - [133] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 30/03/2005 03:30:51 Dual MWD is not the solution for cruisers. Agility/mass changes is the key here, as well as slight cpu/pg boost on all. My Deimos weighs 17mil with MWD on. Poor acceleration and crap top speed means getting to a target that is 20km+ takes a rediculously long time. I am the OG PIIIIIMP
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee	Posted - 2005.03.30 05:13:00 - [134] meridius pretty much covered everything cruisers are fairly useless they are too slow to dodge/outrun missiles and guns and they can't tank cruisers guns can't hit frigs well, but can't break a bs tank at all. that sums it up, i ugess they could be anti-destroyer, but holy crap wow thats so usefu
Berilac	Posted - 2005.03.30 07:09:00 - [135] sighin' it up. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Kathulu	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:13:00 - [136] cruisers are fairly useless they are too slow to dodge/outrun missiles and guns - how useful would a missle be if it couldn't go faster the 90% of the ships you send it at and they can't tank - against what BS' of course not cruisers guns can't hit frigs well, but can't break a bs tank at all. - if cruisers could break bs tanks there would be no need for Bs's Sorry to tear your post up but come on ... I need more cheese over here I have so much whine. I look at cruisers as a wolf hunt in packs and be smart and you can take larger animals down. But alone your going to get trampled. I realy don't know about the agility because I haven't flown a bs to compare. And I suck at math
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:17:00 - [137] This should at least be put into testing. Combined with missile changes this could definately make cruiers more viable in PvP. If they are more agile, and faster they should be able to survive battleship fire long enough to warp out or get to a safe distance. ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Macen Kilpar	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:36:00 - [138] Please for the love of my Cruiser make them useful, anytime you have enough time to eat a ham sandwich while waiting to align and warp begs a change. Seriously though the proposed agility changes to bring them in line is a good starting point to fixing them. Can build from there. signed
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:40:00 - [139] I'd just like to re-iterate, since it would appear that it's gone a little off-topic at times. Meridius suggested a correction that brings the agility of Cruisers in line with Frigates and Battleships in the mighty curve-o-agility. This isn't the be all and end all of Cruisers, and they'll still slide into that 'jack of all trades' role, but it'll give them that added edge that makes them more effective at what they are (or should be); pack-hunting hit-and-runners. Signed, again! Battle Angels Inc - The Movie
Cooller	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:41:00 - [140] I agree with that cruisers should have more agility. /Signed
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.03.30 08:48:00 - [141] Signed. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Blackest Sheep	Posted - 2005.03.30 10:51:00 - [142] Signed
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.03.30 12:45:00 - [143] well i have to agree, meridus hit the nail bang square on the head. at the mo, cruisers are broken and next to useless. also, why are caldari shield tanking criusers heavier than the suposed heavy lumbering amarr armour tanks, i would have thought armour ways more than a shield generator (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.30 17:09:00 - [144] I don't think even one person has objected to this idea. The nerf megapulse thread was flaming both ways but this seem to be a unanimous yes to fix cruisers. Can we get some dev response on the matter please. If you do not agree, please tell us why. ________________________________________________________
Karnivore	Posted - 2005.03.30 18:11:00 - [145] I couldn't agree more, that this fix is definitely needed and I can only hope that CCP will not only acknowledge that this is a problem and remedy it IN THE NEXT PATCH ! SIGNED !
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.03.30 18:47:00 - [146] Originally by: Meridius I don't think even one person has objected to this idea. The nerf megapulse thread was flaming both ways but this seem to be a unanimous yes to fix cruisers. Can we get some dev response on the matter please. If you do not agree, please tell us why. I think that's cause there are only 2 kinds of sides regarding this issue: 1) people who like cruisers 2) people who couldn't care less for those pieces of junk Nobody can feel threatened by a cruiser, even with a minor speed/agility boost.
Tul 'Kas	Posted - 2005.03.30 21:17:00 - [147] Originally by: Face Lifter Nobody can feel threatened by a cruiser, even with a minor speed/agility boost. No, and they shouldn't, even with proposed changes. Originally by: Dash Ripcock ...what they are (or should be); pack-hunting hit-and-runners. A well-balanced group of cruisers, though, that ought to be something to worry about. Able to quickly do significant damage to much more expensive targets (ie battleships) thru coordinated attacks, with a fighting chance to get away when seriously outgunned or outnumbered. As it is it's just a well-balanced group of cannon fodder. Meridius is dead-on here. Correcting cruiser mass/agility would help a cruiser wolfpack to survive long enough to actually matter when they want to fight, and help in getting away when they don't want to. Cruiser warp speed really needs increased, too, couple people mentioned it a few pages back but I think it's almost as important as mass/agility for cruisers to hit-and-run effectively. If you can't even keep up with a fleeing industrial, and you can't get away from a pursuing battleship, you're pretty useless as a raiding vessel, aren't you? SIGNED
Irotar	Posted - 2005.03.30 21:35:00 - [148] Signed
xenorx	Posted - 2005.03.30 21:36:00 - [149] It would be nice to hear CCP's thoughts on this. It would be such a simple change and make a significant step in the right direction for cruisers. Come on CCP a little love for the cruisers please!
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.03.30 22:34:00 - [150] signed 3rd time, as i have 3 accounts

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