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Encourageing Players To Enjoy More Risk

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Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 194	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:03:00 - [91] - Quote Opertone wrote: what can encourage people to take more RISKs??? Nothing, in fact eve is far too risky. EVE is hard enough, nobody wants to grind another week to afford a new battleship. . Are you for real? The only times I ever lost a ship doing level 4 missions was because I was a moron and alt tabbed out of the game to chat on MSN and not paid attention what what was actually going on. If I paid as much attention to mission running as I did to ratting I'd have never lost a ship. So far ratting in Nullsec I've lost 2 drakes ratting because I lost my attention for like 20 seconds and got unlucky. High Sec is not hard and it's not challenging. If you just want to log in and AFK isk make thats fine, but you should be rewarding players who actually sit and play the game, and you should be rewarding players who put their assets at risk. Why? Example figures that I made up: 50 mil isk per hour in high sec 60 mil isk per hour in null sec Ratting ship cost = 150million isk Say I play for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. That's 10 hours. 500mil from High Sec 600mil from Null Sec However say I lose my ship in that week because of null sec stuff it becomes: 500mil from High Sec 450mil from Null Sec Suddenly it doesn't make sense to be ratting in nullsec even THOUGH it pays more. This also doesn't include any time you spend ship spinning because there are neutrals in system etc.
Prince Kobol 625	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:28:00 - [92] - Quote Part of the problem we have at the moment is that because people hate the goons soooo much, they will always disagree with anything they say regardless. So if the all goons can kindly start to argue that null needs to be nerfed in to the ground then everybody will argue the opposite and null sec will get buffed :) Also Indy in null sec is so bad its not even funny and it is infinitely easier to earn a **** load isk in HS then anywhere else Actually I can not think of any reason why you would want to do Indy in null.
Marie Trudeau Trudeau Industrie SA 1	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:33:00 - [93] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: What might help as well is to do something about some of the 24/7 Gatecamps Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game and that will stir up a violent reaction in the community. There are shuttles, cloaks and jumpclones. All that is needed is for new players to learn to use them. You can even fit a rookie ship with a cloak and a cap stable MWD for putting tacticals on gates with very limited skills. I agree with this -- the gatecamps are a part of EVE, a core part, and shouldn't be changed. There are ways and means of getting in and out that can be learned.
Tobiaz Spacerats 685	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:38:00 - [94] - Quote Opertone wrote: Most stupid stuff in EVE. Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward. Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy. Nonsense. The problem is that low-sec is by far the most risky space in the game to try and make money. Even WH-daytripping in a Drake is safer then low-sec PVE. Yet normal low-sec income simply nowhere near reflects that risk. When it finally does, players WILL come as shown by the influx in FW when they could rake in tons of relatively risk-free LP. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
LuckyQuarter Lucky Galactic Expeditions 4	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:43:00 - [95] - Quote As someone who has spent several years in highsec, briefly ran a pos in wormhole space (mimicing null sec), and has now moved to lowsec - I can say the differences between the areas comes down to: a) High Sec - Best place to learn to play the game at ones own pace and to build up skills/resources for an eventual move to wormholes, null, lowsec. b) Wormholes/Nullsec - The idea of owning a system is amazing, and well rewards those corps that can promote teamwork. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to see everything they've built get destroyed when someone stronger comes a long.....plus the constant scanning in wormholes becomes a chore. c) Lowsec - Complicated. Rewards are higher than highsec and a lot of the restrictions imposed on highsec are removed. However, one has to constantly be wary of rampaging kids that seem to think its the highlight of their day to kill new guys hauler using a half dozen proteus's...On the plus side, low sec I think is much more exciting than highsec...the danger livens it up (isk is not that important) and the real benefit is community. Everyone gets to known each other in lowsec....Highsec is like faceless suburbia, lowsec is like tenant committee's for new york apartment buildings....if people don't like you, eventually they'll push you out. Or, you can make great friends. What I'd love to see is to getting rid of the arbitrary barriers between high, low, null - the three various rule systems can get annoying. Better to have 1.0 be close to what high sec is now, 0.3-0.6 be a revised lowsec, and 0.0 - 0.2 be some mix of lowsec and null. I sure wish CCP could integrate everything better. btw -- the biggest cognitive dissonance between highsec and lowsec I think, is not that highsec players are afraid of risk...it's that many of them, especially the pure industry players...just have no interest at all in pvp or the destructive side of the game. They want to build things..pure and simple. Risk in building, transporting, etc is fine....but the mindset is completely different from the roaming pvp player in lowsec that spends his entire time trying to destroy others so he can get his killmails/wealth. That is part of the issue that causes all these threads.
Mike Whiite Keystone Industrial 73	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:01:00 - [96] - Quote Marie Trudeau wrote: Riot Girl wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: What might help as well is to do something about some of the 24/7 Gatecamps Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game and that will stir up a violent reaction in the community. There are shuttles, cloaks and jumpclones. All that is needed is for new players to learn to use them. You can even fit a rookie ship with a cloak and a cap stable MWD for putting tacticals on gates with very limited skills. I agree with this -- the gatecamps are a part of EVE, a core part, and shouldn't be changed. There are ways and means of getting in and out that can be learned. woud you be so kind as not to remove that line of of it context. But your reactions show exactly why you can't get those highsec dwellers to 0.0 It has far little to do with Risk and rewards. Highsec has had a nerf on Incursions and missions, did that increase the number that went to 0.0? Personaly I think the 0.0. mechanics are for more the reason not to go there than the risk reward, poeple with limited time don't wish to be bothered with Alliance politics and the like, they will not come with the current souverinity system.
Anslo BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance 423	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:05:00 - [97] - Quote I don't want more risk in high sec. Therefore, no.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 628	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:09:00 - [98] - Quote Zhade Lezte wrote: I don't get why someone always has to chime in with the "You can't FORCE me into null! Therefore don't fix the game, tia." argument in these types of threads. :cripes: No one can force you to move into null, low, or anywhere else. Get over yourself, this is about the game as a whole and better risk/reward, not dictating your individual choices. So true. It's not about forcing anyone, anywhere. It's about making SOV Null worth "living" in. I bet most people don't know that some Hi-Sec systems have more manufacturing capacity than some Null Sec Sov REGIONS, and no way to increase that for the Sov Holder.... Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure...
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4919	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:13:00 - [99] - Quote Opertone wrote: Solstice Project good trolling High rewards do matter, but risks that are 100 times greater prevent all attempts. It is the ratio of risk to reward - if it was 1:10 to win 100 mill ISK - this is kind of reward people may want to try. Today it is 1:100 to win 15 mill ISK. Contrast more than 60 times!!! Low sec mission runners need to be protected while in mission pocket! Why do lo-sec mission runners need to be protected, particularly? People mission quite successfully in NPC 0.0 Could it be that the risk isn't actually quite as high as you assume? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Incindir Mauser Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 40	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:39:00 - [100] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Incindir Mauser wrote: Har har. I bow before your cleverness. I actually do live in W-space. It's so good it needs to happen Everywhere. Empire needs more stick and less carrot. So yet another person who doesn't live in highsec telling highseccers what's good for 'em. Bit like all these 0.0 poasters waxing lyrically about what's good for highsec - even telling you they DO have alts in highsec - they just don't post on them. Gaaa....... We know what's best for you. It's all over except for the screaming and the tears.

Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 160	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:44:00 - [101] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: would you be so kind as not to remove that line out of it context. Yeah, sorry. So what exactly was the correct context of your comment? All I got was 'do something about gatecamps to make it less intimidating for newbies'.
Opertone Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 137	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:45:00 - [102] - Quote Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Opertone wrote: what can encourage people to take more RISKs??? Nothing, in fact eve is far too risky. EVE is hard enough, nobody wants to grind another week to afford a new battleship. . Are you for real? Actually, I run lvl 4 missions to stockpile some cash before I can get into null space again. This is what I get - average payout - 10-15 mill per hour at best. I want a ratting ship in null sec, it can cost 150-200 mill, due to price wars in NPC space. Yes, even that ratter ship can be blown to pieces, this is where D-scanner and local and intel channel may help. If you run anoms and belts you can make 40-60 mill in bounties per hour, 30 mill being minimum. You can make more and there is not much risk - cloak usually helps, as well as being aligned and aware of hostile movements. Eve is full of risks. Loosing a pvp BS, BC - equals 100 - 250 mill, then you have trouble fitting it out in null - industry and supplies are limited. Risks are 50% 50% to loose it, it is a matter of time until you do. But getting it back can be a problem.
Hypercake Mix Magical Rainbow Bakery 61	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:57:00 - [103] - Quote Most of the time, my implants cost more than my ship. Jump timers not lining up with my EVE fun time and characters with no jump clones too.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 827	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:57:00 - [104] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: What might help as well is to do something about some of the 24/7 Gatecamps Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game... Yep lets keep graveyard camping, it's interesting and the best way to make it so other players are interested on moving there. It's well known, every one like to be graveyard camp, it's such an awesome game tactic and skilled game play. brb
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 161	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:03:00 - [105] - Quote I'm just going to assume you got confused and thought you were posting on the WoW forum.
Urgg Boolean Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 231	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:14:00 - [106] - Quote Opertone wrote: Most stupid stuff in EVE. Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward. Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy. The cuss word you are alluding to is "instancing". This one mechanic would pretty much instantly cause mass migrations into low/null from hi sec. Having said that, there is so much opposition to this idea in EvE that it will never happen. It is not quite consensual PvP, but close enough in the minds of PvPers that it may as well be the same thing. I do agree with you, but it will never happen.
Mike Whiite Keystone Industrial 74	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:19:00 - [107] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: would you be so kind as not to remove that line out of it context. Yeah, sorry. So what exactly was the correct context of your comment? All I got was 'do something about gatecamps to make it less intimidating for newbies'. just one line under there where is said that those sound like rather unlikely solutions. To clarify, it was to point out that the changes that will encourage people to move to 0.0 will not be the changes the current population wants.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 853	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:23:00 - [108] - Quote Andski wrote: Riot Girl wrote: Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game and that will stir up a violent reaction in the community. There are shuttles, cloaks and jumpclones. All that is needed is for new players to learn to use them. It's this idea that in order to get into 0.0, you need to join an alliance and fly to their space in your missioning Raven or something as opposed to simply selling your empire crap, setting your cloning station to their staging system and self-destructing your pod. You don't even need to sell your crap. If you're a random highsec carebear you've spent so much time doing mindless PVE content in a totally risk free environment that you should have loads of money. Unless you did something dumb like put all of your money into making your mission ship 1.75% more effective because the most important thing in the game to you is your isk/hour ratio.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 828	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:25:00 - [109] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: I'm just going to assume you got confused and thought you were posting on the WoW forum. Oups, I thought gate camping was like graveyard camping but seems it's not the same thing. In one you camp graveyards and kill everything spawning, in the other you kill everything passing the gate. You're right it's so dam different, how could I even remotely think gate camping is a very skilled game play where you need dps, tacklers, healers and buffs. Crap missed again, it's wow graveyards who need all this brainless stuff. eve is all about skill and extreme smart thinking to kill stuff at gates. brb
Ginger Barbarella State War Academy Caldari State 176	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:28:00 - [110] - Quote "Risk" with pixels on a screen. That's funny... And OP, null is what you and your buds make it. Quit trying to screw with it by having CCP give you more pets for your farm (see what I did thar?)

Jonni Favorite Sundown Logistics SpaceMonkey's Alliance 143	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:55:00 - [111] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: I'm just going to assume you got confused and thought you were posting on the WoW forum. You sarcasm detector needs new batteries..
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 163	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:14:00 - [112] - Quote Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: eve is all about skill and extreme smart thinking to kill stuff at gates. It is when you're the victim. Have you ever tried fitting a ship for the sole purpose of falling prey to a gatecamp? With a little planning and careful manipulation of aggression mechanics, you can create some surprising results. You might even have fun. Maybe you should try it. It might change your perspective on things.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 213	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:22:00 - [113] - Quote Kara Vix wrote: ~GOONS GOONS GOONS I HATE GOONS~ Please try harder next meltdown, that one was not amusing. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Kara Vix Sanford and Son Salvage Peregrine Nation 54	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:48:00 - [114] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Kara Vix wrote: ~GOONS GOONS GOONS I HATE GOONS~ Please try harder next meltdown, that one was not amusing. Nice misquoting, shows your intelligence level to be not very high.
Jim Era 4890	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:49:00 - [115] - Quote But I'm scared :s
Spaceman Jack Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:52:00 - [116] - Quote You can't "make" people enjoy things. Set the game as it should be. Those who like it will stay, those who don't... won't
Kara Vix Sanford and Son Salvage Peregrine Nation 54	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:03:00 - [117] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Kara Vix wrote: ~GOONS GOONS GOONS I HATE GOONS~ I'm a frustrated little pixel tough man who needs to bully people on forums to make myself feel like more than a scared little boy. Seems about right.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 628	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:04:00 - [118] - Quote Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: Oups, I thought gate camping was like graveyard camping but seems it's not the same thing. In one you camp graveyards and kill everything spawning, in the other you kill everything passing the gate. You're right it's so dam different, how could I even remotely think gate camping is a very skilled game play where you need dps, tacklers, healers and buffs. Crap missed again, it's wow graveyards who need all this brainless stuff. eve is all about skill and extreme smart thinking to kill stuff at gates. Not all gates are camped 23/7 - that's just pants-on-head stupid talk. Go out of Jita to the nearest gate, yeah, that's going to be camped. There is more than one way into Null (Pro-Tip: Wormholes). Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure...
Bane Necran 526	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:21:00 - [119] - Quote Becka Goldbeck wrote: Simply put, if you threw ISK at people I'm sure there would be more in 0.0 This has already been CCP's strategy for years now. They keep making 0.0 vastly more profitable than anywhere else, for everyone, not just alliance leaders, hoping it will entice more people to move there. It hasn't worked, but that doesn't stop people from wanting more isk dropped in their laps. An unpopular truth is also that you can farm isk in 0.0 with less risk than anywhere else, by simply scurrying to safety whenever a stranger enters local. So the risk/reward ratio is completely out of whack there. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham
Megos Adriano Junkyard Dawgs 17	Posted - 2012.10.16 17:49:00 - [120] - Quote The reward of an activity has to outweigh the risk of the activity and the effort of the activity has to be lower than another activity. For example: I'm not going to take a battleship that costs over 200 million ISK into LowSec to do IV's because the chance of encountering a gate camp is very high (because mission systems are camped), the ability to actually escape the gatecamp is very low (because battleships are fat and stupid and I'll be fit for PvE), and having to wait for the gatecamp to leave is very annoying. It's better to do it in HiSec where I have a nearly 0% chance of losing my mission boat. This is also why I'm not interested in moving to DullSec. Mining becomes a huge production (I need to have a ship ready to clear the BS rats each time they spawn), I need to dock/POS every time there's a neutral in system, refining rates are lower, I need to depend more on other people, most of the low-end ores are shipped in from HiSec anyway, etc etc... after all that it's actually more profitable to mine Veldspar and Kernite in Hisec than it is to be a miner in DullSec. Not to mention every market I've looked at has been sub-par. So there's two sitautions, one involves risk, and the other involves effort. LowSec is riskier with not much increased rewards; DullSec has more rewards, but the efforts of attaining said rewards nullifies it. Thus you have a concentration of people in HiSec. HiSec has everything you need. It has safe missions, safe mining, and if you want to PvP you can join FW (which is just next door in LowSec), RvB, grief, WarDec, etc etc. As far as "sandboxes" go, HiSec just offers more choice. I don't know many HiSeccer's that "struggle", but I know many people in LowSec and DullSec who toe the poverty line. EDIT: I'd like to point out, you can cry about it and nerdrage over it all you want and come up with any argument - it doesn't change anything. And boom goes the dynamite.



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